Take It To The Board with Donna DiMaggio Berger

What actually moved the needle for Condos & HOAs in 2025?

• Donna DiMaggio Berger

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In this special year-end episode, host Donna DiMaggio Berger and producer Claude Jennings cut through the noise and reveal the real shifts that changed how community associations operate—from high-stakes legal challenges to the everyday pressures managers and volunteer directors face on the ground. This isn’t just a recap. It’s a reality check.

Donna and Claude revisit their most talked-about conversations of the year, including:

  • Building a company worth selling — insights from a top property management leader on culture, systems, and long-game strategy.
  • A former Florida Condominium Ombudsman who demystified what meaningful government support should look like.
  • A Shark Tank founder whose flood-ready product offers communities a rare gift: storm prep that actually works.

They also spotlight two sleeper-hit episodes that delivered outsized value:

  • A pest control strategist explaining modern, low-toxicity treatments and how understanding pest behavior can save buildings money, time, and disruption.
  • An etiquette expert who reframed neighbor conflict as a communication skill—not a personality flaw—and showed how diplomacy, positive intent, and smart email habits can avert half your headaches.
  • A guest who revealed the common gaps in most communities' screening and security protocols and how to address them.

One of the year’s most sobering discussions came from immigration attorney Ira Kurzban, who explained why every association needs a well-defined ICE response protocol—long before it’s needed. 

And yes, Donna and Claude revisit the throughline in almost every episode: Artificial Intelligence. Is the guest's industry going to be impacted by AI, what can AI do well, what it can’t, and why “AI wrote it” is not a substitute for human judgment.

If your community is ready to shift from reactive crisis management to proactive prevention, this 2025 wrap-up pulls together the year’s most powerful lessons into clear, actionable takeaways you can put to work immediately—whether you’re a board member, manager, or industry professional.

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SPEAKER_03:

Hi everyone, I'm attorney Donna DiMaggio Berger, and this is Take It to the Board, where we speak condo and HOA. Welcome back to Take It to the Board, the podcast that takes you inside the world of community association governance, where every rule hopefully has a reason and sometimes a backstory. I'm your host, Donna DiMaggio Berger, and today we're doing something a little different. No guest, no statute, or case law citations. Well, maybe a few, but just me and my producer, Claude Jennings Jr. wrapping up another incredible year.

SPEAKER_07:

Absolutely, Donna, another incredible year. And by the way, I I may be a little biased, but this is one of my favorite episodes. Because every now and again, it's it's you and it and it's me. And the reason I like it so much is because I think that you should share more. I've said this before. You should share more of your thoughts and your expertise on uh all things board-related and stuff. And so when we're able to, uh whether it's recap a year or whether it is read through some emails, we need to do this more. We need we need more Donna. Less Donna's bad, more Donna's bad.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm not so sure about that, Claude. That's really nice of you to say. But I do enjoy this. And look, we're gonna be taking the hiatus. This is gonna be the last episode of 2025. And I thought it would be nice for us to kind of take a look back at what this year has taught us. You know, what surprised us, what's ahead for boards and residents in 2026. So are we okay taking a look back, Claude? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. All right. So let's start with the big picture. So if I had to give 2025 a headline for community associations, I think it would be the year that condo and HOA conversations got real.

SPEAKER_07:

That's a good one. That because that and we'll see it through this episode. We talked about a lot of real issues, whether it's relevant uh on a personal level with people who own uh uh you know condos and then HOAs, people who are on board, but then also some of the relevant topics dealing with today in the news cycle, um, whether it's immigration, whether it's AI, we we we did get real in 2025. Yeah, I'm 100% right.

SPEAKER_03:

And that was our promise made four years ago that we were gonna keep it real. And I think we've delivered on that promise. So for those listeners who haven't joined us for this year for the entirety of 2025, I kind of want to do a recap of the amazing guests we've had and some of the lessons we learned. So, starting out, our hundredth episode of the podcast actually happened in 2025, Claude. And that's if you remember when we had James Donnelly on from the Castle Group. He talked about how he sold the Castle Group and you know what was involved, what that looked like. I I think it's every business owner's dream to sell, to get big enough and successful enough that somebody comes along and says, Let me take this off your hands. They give you a great price and you kind of you know sail off into the sunset.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, absolutely. And number one, congratulations on that 100th episode. You know, again, everybody's got a podcast. There's so many throughout the world, and not many make it to 100 episodes. And so congratulations on that. One of the things about the James Donnelly interview that stood out to me was I never looked at project man uh uh management in the aspect of an entrepreneur or from the lens of an entrepreneur. It's always whether it's a tech startup or someone starting some sort of business service, and I understand them looking to get uh acquired or to sell or to at least grow to the point where you know acquisition looks attractive. I never really thought of property management in that same way where someone I always thought of it as some other financial um source of income for individuals uh or things like that, but I never looked at it from a large scale. And I would I would assume, yeah, I mean, if you own one of these large properties or or communities, yeah, why wouldn't you do that to sell? And so that opened up my eyes to a whole new d thought just when it comes to property management itself.

SPEAKER_03:

So I I think we can play a little clip. If you recall, James actually told us that he grew up in in Canada. Um, I forget this name of the small town, but they were growing potatoes in their front yard, and the wealthiest guy in town was the certified public accountant. Although I think in Canada they call it another name. So maybe we can track down uh a snippet from that episode. But to your point, I think at that point, you know, when James was just a uh a young man, a teenager, he was looking to find out what you know what would be the path to success. And he kind of it was such an interesting story from him. And if you recall, he was our very first guest on the podcast, and then he, you know, rounded out uh on the hundredth episode. So yeah, I I would think a management company is a very hard business, it's a very difficult business. You've got so many moving pieces, but it's all driven by customer service, right? It's all driven by making people living in these communities happy to the greatest extent possible. And we're gonna talk about one of my favorite episodes in 2025, which was our anonymous guy, Bob, who was complaining about his management in his brand new condo. So, you know, kind of full circle.

SPEAKER_05:

I grew up with nothing. So uh, you know, I'm not overly proud, but it's true. My number one goal right out of the box is I did not want to live the way I grew up. So I was huge financial motivation, probably, you know, zero to 30. But you know, there's the race way my parents uh raised me. It was always about helping others. And so one of the great things about property management is you know, we exist to help others. So that uh has been and and I think always will be. I once, you know, we all go to these seminars, and once they ask me this, you know, what is your defining question? What is the question that you ask yourself every day? And that's a great question. And and I thought long and hard about it, but I wake up every day and I feel good if I help someone. And that may be on the street, it may be, you know, helping someone in our industry, uh, it may be some of our philanthropy, it may be starting a property management program, but I think that that hasn't changed. It's with my how I'm gonna uh actualize that will change. As much as I'm retired from the council group, I certainly don't feel retired at all. I I don't think I've ever been so busy in my life.

SPEAKER_03:

So we also talked in 2025 to the former Florida condominium ombudsman, Spencer Hennings. Remember, we kind of learned how he shaped that office to better serve millions of people, uh, millions of Floridians living in these communities. That's another, I think, thankless task of being a public servant, the Florida's condominium ombudsman. You've got millions of people living in condos. I know that Spencer has also people living in homeowners' associations who reached out to him. Was there anything about that episode that kind of jumped out at you?

SPEAKER_07:

Well, his dedication to making the office, I think he talked about making the office more accessible to residents, to where if there was something you were dealing with, you knew where to go. You knew where you could uh work with um, you know, government officials to get something happening. And that doesn't happen all the time. And so just that accountability to make sure that like, you know, owners are held accountable for being the owners of the units or being owners of the property. Because again, that's something that he can and and and honestly, I guess maybe even just the state of Florida itself having that kind of mindset to say, no, we're gonna make sure that this is done right and we'll and we'll have an office for it. And making it accessible to residents was was one of the biggest takeaways for me.

SPEAKER_00:

The more people that knew about the office, the more people that we could help, the the better it was gonna look for the state, for my office, for the DBPR. And then I thought that's really the key to the legislature, you know, giving us more employees, uh giving us more funding. And then that'll just be this like exponential growth of positivity for the office. So making the office as visible as possible was a big goal of mine. And uh the numbers really doubled and tripled and quadrupled uh throughout those three years.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, you know, I think Florida still sets the standard in terms of states in the U.S. that have a really high percentage of their population living in shared ownership communities. And there are abundant resources in Florida for people living in these communities. You know, we learned from Spencer's episode, Claude, that not everybody's gonna be happy, but the resources are out there. I did suggest that at some point there should probably be a cutoff for the frequent flyers for the people who are calling 15 times a month with a problem. Um, you know, not everybody takes advantage of those resources, but you know, I was happy that we got Spencer on the podcast because it is such a crucial resource for people living in these communities.

SPEAKER_07:

I was gonna say, Donna, do you in your dealings with it, do you find that there are a lot of residents that have come to you and said, Oh, well, I didn't know there was this resource. Oh, I didn't know I could come to the board to get this done, or I didn't know about the lawyer or any kind of bills that was happening in the state legislator.

SPEAKER_03:

100%, Claude. But you know what else I've experienced? People thinking I'm the ombudsman and writing to me with their questions, and I try to help, but you know what? There is a there is a clear path to getting some of those questions answered, and um, the state of Florida has committed to providing those kind of resources. We can't have this wrap-up show without mentioning one of my favorite guests, and that was Maurice Hoffman of Stormbad. Remember, Maurice, he was the podcast guest who walked us through the background of appearing on Shark Tank, and he actually got an offer, a deal with I know it was Mark Cuban, and I want to say Mark and Lori went in on that deal. Although he did tell me that, you know, how they do that disclaimer. I don't know if you watch Shark Tank, but at the end they basically have a disclaimer like, even though the an offer was made, the you know, it's still contingent on them doing their due diligence. And Maurice had said that um Cuban's team reached out and said, Look, we don't think we can really help you do any more than you're doing. And so they said, Well, you know, we will withdraw the offer. And Maurice said, Great. His product was storm bag, if you remember. And that was those flat um bags, sandbags, you know, typical sandbags, like 36 pounds. These were a flat bag, but once the water hits it, it expands to its full size and weight, which is 36 pounds. Look, I'm such a I'm a fan of the show. I've watched it for years, so I kind of loved the insider's glimpse into what went on. But I also bought the product, and we had flash flooding in Broward County a couple months back, and I remember saying to my husband, we gotta get those storm bags out, and we did. We put them, we put them all around. Um, fortunately, it didn't like fully inflate them. It went from flat, flat to like three inches thick.

SPEAKER_07:

Sure. But it was good, yeah. Which is a good thing. Number one, I am a fan of Shark Tank. Two, I do remember that episode. And by fan of Shark Tank, my wife and I will literally watch um CNBC when they do the Shark Tank marathons at night. We'll get our tacos, set up a little taco bar, and we do tacos in Shark Tank for hours until we should have been to bed already. But no, I do love that. And I and and um it's just so interesting where where you look at a situation that's been a problem for years. Again, here's an entrepreneur that comes up with an answer to those questions, and and he's serving the community, he's serving the people that that that need it. And I'm glad you were able to use it, and I'm glad it didn't inflate all the way up because that's good news. That's good news.

SPEAKER_03:

So let me ask you, Claude, have you ever thought of a potential product or business to bring on Shark Tank for yourself?

SPEAKER_07:

I every day I think about it. And by the way, I'm such a big fan. If you remember, years ago, the Shark Tank producers came out with a book about products and acquisition, all the like basic things they talk about on Shark Tank. I bought the book and read it twice. And so I'm all I'm always thinking about what can I do. Now, I will I will say this. Um, my wife does have an idea that she's been trying to massage and things like this. It deals with um with not with women's undergarments that can stop sweating and or at least hold back some of the sweat. And so she's been working on that. And so she it's I love it. We'll see if we can break it to market. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

And I'm already picturing in my mind's eye how she would how she would do her pitch to the sharks and which sharks might be there when she did that. Right. I have two ideas. I have two ideas, and let me tell you, I'm never gonna have time to get these done. Of course. I'm can I want to share them in the public sphere right now. Casey.

SPEAKER_07:

I don't know, because you're a lawyer. We should probably say these are these are Donna's ideas as of now.

SPEAKER_03:

And and if anybody listening has a way to execute on these ideas, please let me know. So the first idea, because again, you're right, the premise is always what's the problem, and have I have I come up with a solution? So I have my my dad is 96, my mom's gonna be 93, okay? What is one of their big issues? They get in the backseat of my car, and this has been going on for years, Claude. They cannot hook the seat belt. We probably spend five minutes with the with a with a bunch of um tussling in the backseat trying to trying to hook in the seatbelt. Because what happens is the seatbelt stays low, right? And they cannot get it in. Their dexterity is not what it used to be. I have an idea for it for a larger seat belt, just a connection to click into that, and then it just sees up like five inches, and then you click into that.

SPEAKER_07:

Like an adapter, like an adapter where it plugs into the other one, and then you yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't think it exists, and I think it would be a huge market as as you know our population gets older and the dexterity goes out the window for that product. My are you ready for my second idea?

SPEAKER_07:

Well, yeah, well, but uh, and again, imagine being an Uber driver, a Lyft driver, Metro Access, all these things, and including regular consumers who need it in the cars for, you know, the L. Absolutely. That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, is it actually that I hadn't even thought of that point because what typically happens is I have to, I don't take off, I get out of the car, I go around, I assist them with their seat belts, and then I get back in the car.

SPEAKER_02:

Correct.

SPEAKER_03:

And and for an Uber or Lyft driver, maybe they don't want to be the ones having to go, you know, get out and help their past their elderly passengers. Or well, it doesn't have to be elderly, it can be anybody who has a dexterity issue.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, I think you can sell this to airplanes for older travelers who have an issue. The flight attendants don't have to do it if you need an extra accommodation. Just plug that adapter in, you're good to go.

SPEAKER_03:

Claude, I promise you, if I make billions on this, I'll still do the podcast.

SPEAKER_07:

Or or don't do the podcast, just bring me on the team. Bring me on the team to help develop the product. And then we'll both still do the podcast. We'll we'll both still do it.

SPEAKER_03:

So that's one. My second one is is really more aligned with what your wife is thinking, which is women and fashion. And mine is, and I just had this problem this morning, zipping up the back of your dress, or you're there's gotta be, and I know there's some manufacturers that already do like a little ribbon to make, but not everyone. This is especially true. I don't live alone, so I had to march down and say to my husband, hey, can you zip me up? But a lot of people live alone. How are they getting those things? How are they getting those zippers up? That's my sense.

SPEAKER_07:

That's a great question. That's a great question. No, I love it. Yeah, find a way to make it happen, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

There you go. I guess, I guess, you know, part of it is always our constant curiosity. So we'll probably have more ideas. Claw, what were some of your favorite shows?

SPEAKER_07:

So I've got to go back and forth between D Smith, D Smith, the rat lady, which which is what she said. You know, I didn't say that.

SPEAKER_03:

And probably that was her proud nickname.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, she loved it. She loved it. And and Jody Smith with etiquette, the the the rat lady, because I find that she brought out a lot of different issues that everybody can kind of relate to, and they can become really big problems. I had no clue there were so many different types of um uh cockroaches and different types of termites, and some were bad for this type of wood or that type of wood. Um, and she's a professional at this. You can just tell because of the knowledge and the passion for it.

SPEAKER_06:

I love what I do. I haven't been to work in years and years. I I just have too much fun because I mean they're doing DNA testing on insects now. We're finding, I mean, we got these termites that are they're doing DNA tests and ants. I mean, it's just so exciting. And we're learning more about the the all of the insect population to know that they're we're developing chemicals that are very low in any toxicity, but they know that they like this flavor. It's like ants, you know, ants DNA. I was told this, and I'm I I probably shouldn't repeat it, but it's not a I haven't truly 100% proven it, but I was told this by an ant guru that an ant's DNA is like 65% of a human being. And but if you think of their habits and their patterns, they actually do just like us in the wintertime. What do I want? I want carbohydrates, I want beef stew, I want, I want comfort food. And in the summertime, I just want to grab a potato chip or have some candy bar and go on my merry way. And ants actually eat that way. So the baits are actually developed and made for their appetite.

SPEAKER_07:

So that was a really good book. And it was also right around Halloween, and that's you know, one of my favorite times of year. So yeah, she brought the little bit of spooky in me. But then also Jody Smith with Etiquette.

SPEAKER_01:

Etiquette is all about guidelines of behavior, how people interact with each other, whether that's in person, over the phone, over the computer, on text. However, one human being is sending out a message to another human being. So let's use an HOA as an example because that's an easy one. Somebody new moves in, and your trash day is on Friday, and they start pulling out their bin on Wednesday. And there's reasons why we don't want bins on Wednesday. Sometimes it can get hit by a landscape or truck, it attracts uh down here in Florida. There are lots of critters out there. You put out your garbage too early, it starts attracting the rodents and other critters. And so the response for a lot of people is immediately to call the office or to call somebody. But there's nothing wrong with going over, knocking on the door, introducing yourself, welcoming them to the community and saying, hey, listen, I don't know where you move from, but down here are garbage days on Friday, and you really need to put it out as close to the pickup time as possible. Let them know. Presume positive intent. Don't presume that they're doing it to be mean or because they like rats in their garbage.

SPEAKER_07:

It's amazing to me how so many arguments and fights among neighbors aren't is not really what the argument's about. It's really about the way someone approached someone or the way someone handled a situation. And if we could all just deal with each other with a little more, you know, etiquette, a little more, you know, humility, uh, and just try to, you know, one of the the rules I try to live by is to prefer someone else above myself. How can I, how can I handle the situation in a way that that that will elevate them over me just to just to make the situation better? I think that that would work out so many of these different issues we see in communities. Um, but when when I say something and it offends someone and they don't want to say they're offended, but they come right back at me. Now it's just we argue about stuff because we don't like each other and we don't like each other because of the way we handle things. We should just handle them both.

SPEAKER_03:

This personal, really quick. This is such an important point. I loved both of those episodes for D Smith, the rat lady. I I think this is true for almost everybody we've had on the podcast squad, is that they're passionate about what they do, and I love that. But her in particular, um, I will tell you, you know, we taped this on Zoom and we only capture the audio, but I was literally getting hives talking about some of the some of the creepy crawlers she was mentioning.

SPEAKER_07:

I feel like when I mentioned uh the cockroaches, you rolled your eyes a little bit. That's that's like, oh goodness, please don't mention this.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, it was the bed bugs too. So I travel a lot and she has changed the way I unpack, you know, kind of before you don't want to bring these things home with you. So that was interesting. Um, with the etiquette with Jodie Smith, I really loved it. Do you know she sent me a beautiful, of course, thank you note, handwritten afterwards? Just what you just what you would expect from the etiquette expert. Um so yeah, I love those.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, no, they're they're my favorite ones. And again, with with uh Jody Smith, who knew that making sure that that um hotel, even if you gotta bring one yourself, has a a blow dryer, a hairdryer, that's very important because it will help you even with your laundry and things like that. People should go back to that episode if they didn't listen to it. Oh, yeah, lots of great travelers.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. We've got D Smith. D Smith, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, D Smith, yeah. So, Donna, um, for these episodes, you don't just invite these guests and just start asking them random questions. I mean, and obviously you're a lawyer, so you do your research and you have questions um uh prepared and ready. And I want to talk about you talked about curiosity. I'll talk about that a little bit later because I love the way you ask questions and the things that catch your attention. But for right now, what was the one episode that you researched the heaviest for when it came to taping the podcast?

SPEAKER_03:

Hands down, it was Ira Kurzman. So if you recall, Ira was the iconic immigration attorney I had on. We spent a lot of time talking about his career. He had appeared before the um U.S. Supreme Court back in the 80s. Um, he was he was representing Haitian immigrants at that time. I took a deep, deep dive into his career. I went back and I, Claude, I I listened to a living history episode he taped for Penn for the University of Pennsylvania. And I think he had taped that, oh God, more than two decades earlier, about his career. And he was just, he's listen, he was a fascinating guest. Um, I wanted obviously to know a lot about his career so I could make the you know the most use of his time. He's a very busy guy. I think it's every attorney's dream to appear before the I think it's every attorney's dream, at least this attorney's dream, it would be to appear before the United States Supreme Court. Uh, I really laughed when he told me that three days after they concluded arguments, he ran into Justice Scalia in Miami, and Scalia had no idea who he was. Which he I don't know what that says, you know, that they're so focused on the argument and not the people, or that's just something, you know, specific to Justice Scalia. But I I I found again, it's I think it's that kind of insider's peek into like we're talking about Shark Tank, or we're talking about you know, D. Smith's uh pest control services or Ira Kurzban appearing before the U.S. Supreme Court. For me, listening to a podcast is about getting that behind the scenes glimpse that you wouldn't otherwise have an opportunity to get unless you bumped into all these people at a party.

SPEAKER_07:

No, 100%. What I loved about it was you talking about immigration and ice in a way that here's what you here here's what you can do, what you can't do, what they can do, what they can't do if you're confronted with it. Because it is a relevant topic and you deal with so many relevant topics. Was there anything about because I can only imagine that if I was security at an HOA or something like that and the ice pulls up, I'm not sure what to do. What rights do I have? What rights do uh what are they legally able to do? What was one of your favorite parts about what he disclosed as far as um that situation goes?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think education is key, Claude. So we've seen all the news coverage on ice activity and how horrific it can be and how quickly emotions can ratchet up and and it can be very scary. So I think the goal with that episode was at least to get people thinking about this. Because as a volunteer board of directors, as a management professional, at least have some sort of idea in place of how we're gonna respond. If I shows up here and they suddenly say, we want to see your resident list, or we're marching into your elevators, and you may be in a building where that elevator opens up directly into a unit's vestibule, or sometimes directly into a unit, you have to know ahead of time. Um maybe your maybe your plan is just we're gonna document it and we're gonna do nothing. We're just gonna say, okay, and you're gonna stand back, or maybe your plan is you're gonna ask to see what kind of warrant they have. Do they have a judicial warrant or an administrative warrant? Because as we talked about with Ira in that episode, it makes a big difference. But have some sort of plan so things don't go, and even with a plan, Claude, things can go awry. But of course, this is a starting base where you know and you feel it a little bit better. It's the same thing with a natural disaster, right? If you have a hurricane plan or you've got a plan for another type of natural disaster, and you know you've got a foam tree, you know the things you're gonna, the steps you're gonna take before, during, and after, it kind of makes people calm down a little bit.

SPEAKER_07:

Sure. Yeah, just making sure that you that you've got that plan. Yeah, and I love that episode because again, it's real, it's relevant, it's things people are dealing with now, and information that people can walk away from the show with, okay, here's something we should discuss at our next, you know, board meeting, or maybe even have an emergency board, you know, Teams meeting or Zoom meeting to talk about this because it could happen to us.

SPEAKER_03:

And Ivor's really busy after that, after that episode, I think he's been on, he's been on TV, he's been all over the place because uh I don't think ICE activity has slowed down any. You know, Claude, I do have to give a shout out to my Becker colleagues who've appeared on the podcast in 2025. We've had more than two dozen of my Becker partners on the show since we started four years ago, but in in 2025, so we had my partner Tana Buka talking about smart hiring. We had Rob Caves talking about contracts, we had Allison Hertz on the pros and cons of mixed-use communities, uh, Jennifer Drake on the real estate market and new developments, and David Rogel on cooperatives. So these attorneys bring such a wealth of information on the topics I asked them to talk about. Um, you know, our number one downloaded top uh episode is still Ken directors on committees. And I remember when I said to him, I think he was in year two, I said, Ken, I want you to come on the podcast. And again, all these attorneys I just mentioned, they can talk on uh on any number of subjects related to community association governance. But I've kind of like cherry-picked, we haven't talked on this topic or that topic, so will you handle it? And when I said to Ken, I'd like to do an episode on committees, he said, committees? That sounds boring. And it's still the number one most downloaded episode because there was so much real information to give about committees. What who creates them? How long do they stay in in existence? What is the scope of their authority? You know, what kind of committees do you want to create? What are the potential liabilities associated with these committees? Again, sometimes it's sometimes it's surprising what hits with your audience, but that one really hit with the audience.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh, 100%. And um, you know, again, shout out to your colleagues, you know, at Becker. I mean, I think that it also puts on display that you guys there at Becker have some of the you know top talented minds and you know legal minds uh here, and um it's usually it's on display. And by the way, one of those is you, and like I said, we need to have you uh highlight a little bit more, but that's just a lot of people. Well, they're gonna think we set this up. No, no, but but but but what people need to understand too is that even when you have some of your colleagues on, you guys are all you you are you are so careful. Uh, and this is with me as an editor, like you will tell me I don't want it to sound too much like um like advertisement. And so let's make sure we take this out or that out. Because it because it's not advertisement. You are really in in and your colleagues are in it for the information, not to advertise back. So I don't I don't want to make it seem like that's what I'm doing, but because you are careful with it, but at the same time, the information is the information and the the proof is the proof is the proof. There's nothing you can do with it.

SPEAKER_03:

I just think it's it's it's the right way to convey information, necessary information to people living in these communities. Again, like you said, whether you're on the board, whether you're managing the community or you're living in the community, thinking about running with the board running for the board or having an issue with your board, is to convey the information in a way that's understandable, right? You don't need some attorney talking, you know, spout spouting statutes and case law. There's a there's a forum for that. Typically, that's our classes or our webinars. But with a podcast, I I like to be entertained, and I've been very grateful. We've had our attorneys, our experts, they're board certified, but they really break it down in a way that you can understand.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh, absolutely. No, 100%. And I and I appreciate that. And you add you add uh, you know, a lot of, again, real life examples, and you do a really good job of okay, let's not get into the, you know, uh, because it's easy for um lawyers to speak legal knees, and you you don't do that. You make sure that it's communicated in a way that's uh palatable for everybody.

SPEAKER_03:

Claude, did I ever tell you that I served on my own HOA board for two years?

SPEAKER_07:

You told me. You did.

SPEAKER_03:

So and I really think more association attorneys should Serve on their boards, their condo or HOI boards, assuming they live in a shared ownership community community, it really is a different perspective.

SPEAKER_07:

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03:

It's a whole different thing.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah. Well, you talked about the episodes that um stood out to you most. One that's there's two that stood out to me most. I mean, I've got my favorites, but there's also two that stood out to me. One of them, if you remember, was Mark Hall and the Safe Communities Vendor ID program. Um, just the extra steps to take to make sure that when it's someone coming to do landscaping or roofing or whatever, that there's extra steps to make sure that they are um certified and anything from whether it's uh um, you know, prior conviction stuff or uh uh on an offender's list or something like that, that that everyone knows what that is, and everyone's kind of been um checked in. But then also there was the anonymous guest, we called him Bob, um, who was a unit owner. And the thing I like about that was again, it was a real person, real stories, and the podcast being a resource for people who need it. Because I can only imagine people were listening thinking, oh yeah, that's my story too. And people should go back and listen to that episode as well.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, I first of all, I love both of the episodes that you've kind of highlighted. I want to talk about the safer watch. So that one was eye-opening for me because when you think about it, and I do a lot of problem solving with boards, and a lot of times it's it's a conversation about security, especially if you've already got the get you've already got the gate, the perimeter fence or the wall or what have you. You may have a manned security uh house, or you may just have the unmanned electric gates, but there's still it's top of mind. Security is top of mind for many, many communities. But who thought about the fact that, okay, they're taking all these steps to secure the community, and yet on a weekly, monthly, yearly basis, you have hundreds or thousands of people coming into the community on a regular basis who may pose security threats. And of course, for those of us, and I'm not saying I'm uh this is me specifically, but for people who are glued to Netflix and the true crime documentaries, many of the many of the serial killers do find their way uh posing as, you know, people on work crews.

SPEAKER_04:

I saw all of these vendors literally thousands a year come through the gates of these gated communities. And I really thought that, you know, the gated communities uh are gated, they build walls and fences, and they install security cameras with video analytics, and you know, you have to have guest lists and party lists to be able to get in. And there's all of these uh security measures that are taken, which are important and necessary. But then they open their gates to thousands of unknown persons to work in their homes, around their homes, and around their community every day. And I saw that as a huge, huge weakness in the security of these communities.

SPEAKER_03:

It was a real eye-opener in terms of just a different layer, and again, not to be paranoid, but a different layer of security screening by looking into the work crews and the and the people who are coming into the community on on a again, daily, weekly, uh monthly, yearly basis. In terms of Bob, you know what I've always wondered? Did anybody realize who Bob was? We didn't we didn't have any voice blurring, you know, technology. Um, I really appreciated Bob's perspective. What I appreciated about Bob's perspective, because I've over the years, I've heard from so many um owners who had problems with their communities. And and sometimes I've heard from people that I've had to write to and say a demand letter and say, hey, you are violating this rule or that rule, and here's what you need to do, and here's the deadline to do it. Um, what I appreciated about Bob is A, he had a leader, I think he was a lawyer. Um, I think he had realistic expectations about moving into this new luxury high-rise in Browick County. Sure. Um, he was honest that he had not fully read or understood the governing documents. And this is a fellow legal professional. So, you know, when you're talking about how easy it is to really understand what you're buying into, I think you've got to keep that in mind. That you even even people who make their living reading legal documents may not have a full handle on what it means to live in this community. But if I recall correctly, Bob's biggest complaint, because it was a brand new luxury building. They were going through a 558 construction defect claim against their developer. He thought that when it came to violations, like he gave the example of a parking violation, he would like to have a phone call from the manager to say, Hey, Bob, you've got your car parked in the wrong spot. Make sure you move it, as opposed to getting the sticker slapped on his vehicle. I think that was his main bone of contention, is that I'm an owner, I own my prorate share of that parking lot, and I should not be treated that way. And if you recall, I pushed back a little bit against it. Because listen, if it was a 12-unit condo, that's one thing. But if it's, you know, a hundred units or you know, that's a large community, and sometimes you don't have the luxury. The manager doesn't have the luxury of picking up the phone and saying, Hey, Bob, will you do this? And so, but I it that was a real interesting episode for sure. For sure, yeah. So, so Claude, I want to ask you, I want to pull back the curtain a little bit. What's it been? I know you've got a lot of different shows you produce, you do a lot on radio for different sporting events. What's it been like for you producing a podcast that mixes law, lifestyle, and you know, a fair share amount of drama?

SPEAKER_07:

You know, it's fun. So I um uh I listen to the shows as we we record them, then I listen back as I edit them, then I listen again or kind of spot check a third time to try to make sure I get everything out that needs to be out. And it's almost like a classroom because I I continuously with you know, certain shows shoot over my head. I mean, just for an example, like there's a show that I do that deals with um like space um space rockets and satellites and stuff like that. I have no clue what they're talking about. And so when I'm recording and listening, I actually I should send this to you one day or at least show you the picture. I have a notepad where I take notes of things that are sets that are interesting to me. And I do that with this show, and so I think it's it's it's educational, um, as you could only imagine. The things with like cyber compliance and space stuff, they can get in the weeds, and so it's not necessarily entertaining a lot, but this one is because it deals with real life. I I almost look at it as a as a HOA digital gossip room where people because I can only imagine people who are whether you're on a board or you're in an HOA, you can hear something and it tri it tri not necessarily triggers, but it sparks up in your memory uh something that you may be going through now or went through before, and you're like, you're listening to two people talk about something because most people consume podcasts in their ears. They have the headbutt, the earbuds in, whether they're at the grocery store or whether they're cooking or whether they're on the treadmill taking a walk. And so you feel like you're talking to your friend Donna and one of her friends about things you're going through. And that's kind of what I feel like it is. It's kind of that information, but it's it's it's the drama gossip room digitally without like leaving you without a resolution. You get a resolution, but it but it but it's definitely it's definitely it's more entertaining than you think that an HOA podcast would be.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I think that I'm gonna take that. I I I love that description, and I'm gonna take it. I will say that it's helped me as an association attorney when I have an issue now with an elevator contract, or I've got a client that's considering putting in security cameras. I think back to some of the experts that I've dealt with or drones. I don't know if you remember the second season, the drone guys from the panhandle. It just kind of fills out your your baseline knowledge on those issues. For instance, I didn't know before that you could set a security camera with certain sounds like a gunshot, so it'll immediately notify you. So you don't have to be sitting in front of a computer screen monitoring constantly. You could also upload a digital image of maybe somebody who's been told not to trespass, or if you've got a domestic violence situation. Just it's helped me when I think about the amazing guests we've had and the industries, all of which we try to we try to um tie back to the community association lifestyle. So for sure.

SPEAKER_07:

For sure. Now, Donna, when it comes to you as the host, um, was there ever a moment in a conversation or in a recording where you're thinking, okay, this is about to fly off the rails, and I've got to reel this back in.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. I will getting back to IRA. IRA got a little political at one point.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And I remember thinking, um, yeah, we may have to edit this. We want our guests to be able to speak their minds, but again, you you know, you do that, you produce for a lot of shows that you you also don't want to editorialize and you don't want to alienate any part of your audience. And when it comes to community association lifestyle and and residence, we're all about trying to bring people together, aren't we? So I would never want to have an episode or a guest that alienates people who need to hear the message.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh, for sure. And by the way, that just shows up um a level of your integrity too, because there are so many things that people will say, you know, and I've and I've done this, you know, where uh uh on camera, on microphone, where um that's not the point of the show, so we'll take it out. Or I don't think you meant it this way, and we'll talk about it. It's like, oh, yeah, no, no. Okay, cool. We'll in a in a world where people will take sound clips or videos and just post it on social media to take somebody down so they can get a couple of dollars. And it's um so no, this is this is this is a show that shows integrity.

SPEAKER_03:

And so that's a great point. I want to tell you, I want to ask you because you edit this show, right? So everything we we sound great. I always say to guests before they come on, Claude's gonna make us sound wonderful. Okay, don't worry about that. You get a do-over. Wouldn't it be great in real life if we were having those conversations, if we could hit rewind and maybe phrase it a little more diplomatically when we're having a tough conversations?

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, you know, no, it it would be, right? But unfortunately, you know, I try not to, you know. Um, but yeah, no, for for the most part with this show, Adonna, I mean, you know, we let the guests know that we can edit. Um, but you do a really good job of making the interviews a conversation, um, as opposed to sounding like a, you know, just kind of a dry interview where we're ask this question, here's the answer. Here's the question. You enter, you, you, you weave in so many like lifestyle uh things, um, uh whether it's uh you know a joke here or a joke there, personal experience. You ask them for personal experiences. One thing about about you though, Donna, that um I admire is just your curiosity. Like, so uh again, I work with a lot of people in broadcasting, a lot of journalists, and and and and a lot of the people I work with ask great questions of the subjects, they get into it deep. But as a lawyer, you have a way, I don't know, like the questions you ask are things I'm like, well, that's an interesting question. I would have never thought to ask that. But it's not just it's one thing to think, okay, well, yeah, as a lawyer, she's gonna ask a lot of the, you know, uh uh black and white, you know, dot the I's cross the T's questions. But you the things that catch your interest to me, it's just like, wait a minute, like the way we went in with um D Smith on the critics. I'm like, why is Donna so fascinated with this bed bugs thing? She won't get off of it. But it but but I think real people want to know that stuff. And so I I I think you have you have a way of bringing the podcast to a relevancy in a in a in a life that I think the listeners um enjoy, actually. And I enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I appreciate that. I will tell you, I've had listeners tell me, thank you for always asking what things cost. Right because we talked about a lot of great things, you know, the security cameras, the drones, the you know, the safe, whatever these programs are. I do I do want to know what motivates people, Claude. I want to know what options are out there. Uh, but I also want to know how attainable is this? Like if the sword bags cost$5,000, there's not gonna be that many people buying them. The fact that they cost 30 something made it a lot more affordable and attainable. I do think, Claude, that 2026 is gonna be the year associations focus less on crisis management and more on prevention. I'm thinking smarter budgets, more training, and can I even say it, more civility? Could that be on our wish list for 2026?

SPEAKER_07:

I think it should be on our wish list for 2026. I think they're also gonna have to deal with, you know, uh technology, every this AI thing. I just uh saw an article today where um, or maybe no, I think I was pitched an interview for another radio thing about how AI is gonna help people maximize the holidays from calendars to creating your budget to creating a meals list, you know, a menu for the gatherings. And I'm like, you can't avoid it. AI is here, and it but but I see it as a tool. I'm not afraid of AI. I use it all the time for so many different things, and it's about using it. And I can only imagine that there's gotta be a use for homeowners associations and boards and things like that. And I think that's one thing we've got to tackle coming up in 2026.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, AI has been a through line in most of the episodes. So a lot of times I've asked guests, how is artificial intelligence gonna impact what you do, impact your industry? I'm always interested to see who has some fear, some trepidation associated with AI, and which of our guests are actually embracing it and saying, hey, this is like great. This is gonna make my job um easier. I will tell you, Claude, I'm curious out in terms of AI for associations, in terms of the boards using it and the management companies. I recently got a request from a board member on an issue, and it actually this board president just copied and pasted it from Chat GPT, and at the bottom it said, very truly yours, insert name. So I knew that this is literally a copy and paste from and it's funny because as I was reading it, I was thinking, this doesn't sound like Carol at all. This doesn't sound like her voice. Carol's never been this, this, you know, uh perspicacious with her questions. Anyhow, I never I didn't rat her out. I answered it in a way I think AI could be very like ChatGPT could be very useful for the communications. So a board member or manager could take a proposed email, send it to Chat GPT and say, please polish this up, right? And it would come out a lot more flowerly flowery and diplomatic. And that could be very helpful in terms of tempering the communications. But I think where you're gonna get really into the weeds and into the danger zone is if boards and managers start trying to do legal research on chat with chat GPT and using artificial intelligence. We've already seen some courts admonish attorneys, uh young associates who are using chat GPT and AI, and they're coming up with fake cases for their briefs.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. So you need to know it's a powerful tool, but in the wrong hands or in unsophisticated hands, it can send you into very dangerous territory. And the other thing, and I remember um the business, I forget his name right now, but it wasn't this year, it was the year before, the Fox Business Strategist, he said, remember, I was asking him about investment strategies, and I said, How is AI going to impact you? Because what if I just go to Chat GPT and ask for some suggestions? His response was was really helpful because he said, You've got no recourse against AI. If they give you a terrible recommendation for an investment strategy and you lose all your money, you've got no one to go after.

SPEAKER_07:

Mm-hmm. That's right. Wow. Okay. We'll have to dive into that then.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I mean, I think I think we're we're pretty much there, Claude, to to wrap up 2025. Any any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_07:

Oh, you know what, Donna, keep doing what you're doing. Um, you know, it's funny because beforehand we talked about, you know, if you wanted to give a uh best episode, you know, title or anything like that. You know, I don't I don't know if I could because there have been so many great ones, so many great guests. I keep harking back to D Smith because it was just funny and I'm a Halloween guy. But I don't know if you have one or not, but um, you know, keep doing what you're doing. I think that the work is great. You're a wonderful host, you're easy to work with, and I enjoy, like I said, you're you're one of the tabs in my notebook when I edit that I'm taking down notes. Like that sounds like an interesting question to ask the the board the next time we have a meeting because we live in the HOA, me and my wife and our son. And so um uh keep doing what you're doing. I love I love what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02:

Does your board know you you produce this podcast?

SPEAKER_07:

They don't, they don't, but they are aware of the podcast, though. But I try to, you know, I don't send them the episode. Obviously, they don't they don't they don't listen to the ones that I'm on, I guess. Or maybe they do, maybe they know I'm a plant. Maybe they are listening to you.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Well, listen, Claude, I want to thank you because you're an incredible podcast producer, and you're just one of the nicest people I know. And I'm blessed to be able to produce this podcast with you. So thank you so much for doing that. And I hope we we have many more years together that we can produce the podcast. Um I do want to say, I want to remind everyone that listen, community living only works well when we all show up, right? With patience and perspective. Humor always helps, always helps. I don't know when when humor wouldn't help a situation. We're gonna be back in 2026 with more important conversations, some challenges, new reasons to take it to the board. So wishing everybody happy holidays and uh happy, happy new year. Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to follow and rate us on your favorite podcast platform or visit takehtotheboard.com for more ways to connect.