Behind the Scenes of Community Management -- What Every Board Should Know

Your management company is involved in almost everything that happens in your community association, yet most boards only see a small slice of what’s going on behind the scenes. In this week’s episode of Take It To The Board, host Donna DiMaggio Berger sits down with Mara Jockers, in-house counsel for FirstService Residential, to get the management company perspective on governance, compliance, contracts, perpetual legislative change and the real-world risks that keep both boards and their management team up at night!

Donna and Mara start with a practical reality that gets misunderstood all the time: management company counsel represents the management company, not the association. From there, they unpack what in-house counsel handles day to day, from management contracts and vendor issues to claims, litigation, subpoenas, and training teams to prevent problems before they escalate. They also talk about workplace safety and rising incivility, including what to do when residents cross the line, why documentation matters, and how simple operational changes can protect on-site staff.

Then they zoom in on what makes a high-functioning board-manager relationship: clear roles, clear expectations, and a contract that matches the community’s needs. Donna and Mara cover non-negotiable provisions like indemnification and insurance, how agency law affects responsibility, and what trends are driving disputes, including personal injury claims, environmental and mold allegations, and housing-related complaints that can drag managers into conflict. They also look at smooth transitions between management companies, hurricane preparedness planning, and how AI in property management could reduce admin work so managers can focus on judgment, planning, and relationships.

Conversation Highlights Include:

• What management companies really do behind the scenes
• The legal issues keeping community managers up at night
• Breaking down the fine print in management contracts
• Why indemnification and insurance provisions are more important than ever
• Building stronger partnerships between boards and managers
• Avoiding common mistakes that create risk for associations
• Navigating legislative changes, litigation, and rising homeowner expectations
• Managing through hurricanes, emergencies, and unexpected crises
• Debunking common myths about community management
• The future of AI and technology in the property management industry

Related Links:

• Podcast: The Power Hour For HOA Leaders, with Organizational Strategist Dr. Edward Gurowitz
• Resource: First Service Residential Resources for Florida Community Associations
• Article: Q&A: Becker’s Nataly Gutierrez Vazquez Discusses Today’s Community Association Landscape

Transcript

Why Management Counsel Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hi everyone, I'm Attorney Donna DiMaggio Berger, and this is Take It to the Board, where we speak condo and HOA. Management companies touch virtually every aspect of community association life. They help implement board decisions, oversee vendors, manage finances, respond to owner concerns, navigate emergencies, and serve as the operational backbone for thousands of communities. So when legal counsel for large management companies speaks, they're bringing insights drawn from countless real-world situations playing out across a vast portfolio of associations. So why should you, dear ticket to the board listener, care about this conversation? Well, because management council has a unique perspective on what boards do well, where communities get into trouble, what legal and operational risks are emerging, and how the relationship between boards and management companies can either drive success or create conflict. Today I'm joined by Mera Jockers, in-house counsel for First Service Residential, one of the largest community association management companies in North America. Mera has a front row seat to the challenges facing community associations today, from governance and risk management to contracts, compliance, resident expectations, and the rapidly changing legal landscape. When our community associations are facing increasing regulatory requirements, aging infrastructure challenges, insurance pressures, and heightened owner expectations, management companies have become more important than ever. So with that, Mero, welcome to Take It to the Board. Hi, Donna. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Well, we are very excited to have you here because you are the first in-house counsel or any counsel for a management company that's been on the podcast. We're into five seasons now. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation today. And I want to start out by just getting a glimpse into like a day in the life of Mary Jockers in-house counsel. What does an in-house lawyer for a large management company do on a typical day?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Sure, Donna. First, I just want to

What In House Counsel Handles

SPEAKER_00 2:05

clarify for the board members listening that as counsel for first service, we're we are counsel for the management company and not for the association. We leave that to you and all of your counterparts. So all of our legal work is for the management company. So when we get those questions from boards, if we can assist with the legal work, then unfortunately we we can't do that. We send it your way. But our day starts with a full array of things contract work, management contracts, leases, overseeing all of the claims, litigation and subpoenas. We do a lot of that in-house, and a lot of it is overseeing outside counsel. We coordinate with insurance companies. We're talking with our management teams just on problem solving and mitigation. We do a lot of legal trainings for our in-house folks, legal compliance, just trying to find and prevent those problems before they escalate.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

I think I'm still digesting your opening statement that boards are asking you for legal.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

I should clarify that it's more there. The manager and the managers come through to me and they and they say, um, hey, our board wants to know about this. Can you assist? And that's when I always say, Well, I'm gonna refer you to Donna Berger or whatever your counsel is, because sometimes there's some confusion as to the management company being able to provide legal advice. So that that's all I meant by that, Donna.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

No, so what are some of the common problems that your managers are calling you about, Mara?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Well, these days we're seeing a lot of the legal compliance. As we all know, there's been so many changes in in the law in Florida happening so quickly and operationally, it can be tough to keep up with all of that. And we are always kind of working through that, not at the specific level of that specific association, but on a general level, what uh what they need to be doing. Then there's always claims litigation and subpoenas coming through, and they may be reaching out for something related to the association, something related to first service, uh, what their role may be in those matters. Just a general board and manager relationships,

Workplace Safety And Resident Incivility

SPEAKER_00 4:10

communications, making sure we're all understanding each other and on the same page, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Do you ever get calls from managers who feel as if the association is not providing a safe environment or a safe workplace?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

We do get some of that, and we've got language in our contract to help us deal with that, and then we partner with the the board and the association council to help work through that. Typically, it's a resident who's being disruptive, and we all want to work together to kind of put an end to that. So we have that increase in the past few years.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

I've done podcast episodes about the increasing incivility, unfortunately, in our community associations. And the reason I asked that question is because I have had to send demand letters to residents who have it even goes above and beyond just creating a nuisance. In some cases, they have been menacing management personnel, going into the office unannounced. And those behavioral issues, I find them so incredibly difficult to kind of control within a legal framework because you're dealing with people and their emotions. Do you do you find the same thing?

SPEAKER_00 5:23

I I agree. Absolutely can be hard to manage and control. And there's only so much that we can really do that's available to us. Over the years, we've developed some go-to things that we do, but uh ultimately sometimes it's a matter of just calling the authorities.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah. And also thinking about some of your protocols, for instance, I know a lot of managers like to keep an office door, an open office door policy, which makes sense. You want to be available to the residents when questions arise. But my recommendation, Mara, sometimes is if you do have a problem in a particular building or community, that maybe you have to close your door for a while until that's sorted out. I mean, safety first.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Absolutely. And we recommend that as well. And even sometimes putting in a ring camera so they can see when someone comes to the door, determine if they want to open or not, or setting office hours where they take appointments rather than just having walk-ins. We don't love to do that because it affects the whole community, but sometimes that that's necessary to protect them. Uh, there's a whole host of things that we could go through, things that we've tried to do to protect our employees while they're there.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

I guess open communication is the most important. So if anybody's feeling threatened or harassed, reach out to your employer and reach out to the board. People can't fix a problem unless they know about a problem. Normally they know about the problem. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

No, and I agree. And we always ask them to please document it because sometimes they say, This has been happening for months. And I say, um, sorry to hear that. Do you have incident reports? Do you have uh emails? Do you have anything you can present to help us document what's been going on? And sometimes they don't, and that just makes it a little bit harder for us to help them. Not that we don't, but if you ever need to go through legal proceedings, we always want

Clear Roles For Boards And Managers

SPEAKER_00 7:10

everyone to be documenting these things with the dates and the times and what was said and et cetera.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

In your opinion, Marrow, what do you think is the most highest functioning relationship, the way it should work, the relationship between a board of directors, a volunteer board of directors, and their professional management team? What do you think that in best case scenario, that relationship should look like?

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Well, it it's a good question. And I think that everyone needs to understand their roles. And the role of the board is governance, policy making, the overall um well-being of the community and what the uh things are that they want to work on now, things they want to put on hold. And the manager's role is day-to-day operations and implementing those policies of the board. So we don't, managers aren't the decision makers for those global things, but board members who really can't have them in the day-to-day either. So we want everyone to kind of understand their role and have a relationship, keeping that in mind.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

I imagine, like me, you've seen those roles get blurred in some instances. Uh, I know that I've seen boards sometimes push managers to do things outside the scope of their expertise. I think sometimes that's cost-driven, Mara. So rather than call the attorney, let's ask the manager. And I always say if the question starts out, is there liability if that needs to go to legal counsel as opposed to doing directing it to your management professional? But there's other instances where a board may rely on a manager and maybe even pressure a manager to do things like engineering, and maybe even accounting. From a management company's perspective, what kind of risk does that present to the management company if a manager is being pressured like that?

SPEAKER_00 9:01

So it is a common thing. I think less common where we've been really been pushing back on it for a while, that the board is cost conscious or they don't really know what their needs are, particular project, and they're looking for the manager to kind of wear all the hats. So we've spent time training our associates and explaining to them just the basic facts, what first service is licensed in, what it's not, um, the services that we can legally provide, those we cannot, and helping them educate their boards on that and make good recommendations. I think the liability falls on the board and first service if if we are both acting outside of our what we're comfortable with and make and uh making those poor decisions. So we added if in the contract, it's been a while now, but kind of some clarity explained that we're not landscape architects, we're not architects, we're not engineers, we're not construction, we don't hold these licenses or these expertise, and to ask us to do so is really not in the best interest of the association or our associates. So that that's definitely an issue. But like I said, I think we're we're improving upon that, and we're happy to point towards in the direction of their term, their accountant, who are whoever that may be, to uh involve the correct people.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

We do that as well as association counsel. So when I'm when I'm asked an accounting question, yeah. Hands and hands off, that's going to your CPA. Same thing with

When Boards Push Beyond Expertise

SPEAKER_01 10:25

with engineering and other specialties. I really urge our clients, Mara, to bring outside professionals into their board meetings so the membership can hear directly from those professionals, as opposed to the board or even the manager being expected to translate what outside professionals are saying.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Absolutely. I think that's a great idea. And the community has some real involvement in it, which is always helpful.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

So the relationship starts with the contract. And I've and I've seen First Service's contract. It's very well written and it's very lengthy. So tell me. Um tell me first of all, I'm interested how your contract has changed over the years. So you've been with First Service how many years, Matt? It's actually my 16-year anniversary on Sunday. Well, congratulations in advance. We are taping this on June 16th. So it'll be released a few weeks from now, but happy anniversary. So 16 years, tell me, how has the contract has it gotten shorter? I imagine the answer is no.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Uh I I I don't I can't say it's gotten shorter. Um, has it gotten significantly longer? I would say the answer to that is no, because every year we're always looking to improve it, make it more clear, um, take into account new laws, new legal issues, and some things might come out, some things might come in, some things might be clarified, or people, the attorneys we work with point something out and say, you know what, that's true. It would make more sense like this. So that's we're always looking to make it better and improve it. And I think it stands at about 14 pages, which I would say is probably average in the industry. Not gonna argue that's the shortest, but it's not ridiculously, I've seen 25 and 30 pagers. I think overall it's it's it's a good starting point. It's really what kind of governs the relationship that's important.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Assuming people read it and understand it and they get it reviewed. Do you have any handle, Mara, on how many boards maybe don't get management agreements reviewed? They just sign?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

You know, these days, I actually went back to our contract management team and I said, because I'm not involved in all of them. And I said, How what are you seeing? And they're seeing um about 90% of contracts are going through some sort of review. There's no more just people are signing. And I think that's a good thing. I think boards are more interested in the community and understanding what the responsibilities are. Uh, some of it is not necessarily attorney negotiated, it could be board negotiate, it could be business terms, but I think we're seeing a lot of that.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

So, Mara, which of your contract provisions are just non-negotiable? You will, these are the hills you're gonna die on, merit jockers. You will not, if I come to you and say I need to change this, which of these provisions are non-negotiable, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_00 13:10

So I'm gonna go with indemnity and insurance. Of course, things are negotiable, but the basic principles have to be in place, and those things aren't negotiable. First service is the agent of the association. And without getting into a full discussion of agency law, we know that the manager company acts on behalf of the owner, which is the which is the association, is the agent, and then the agent sets the goals and the direction, and then we are just carrying that out. So by law, the owner is then responsible for the actions of the agent. So that structure is what needs to be in place

Management Contracts That Actually Protect

SPEAKER_00 13:50

for the insurance and indemnity to work in flow. And we do not agree to things that put at risk the ability to get insurance coverage or seem to shift the burden in a way that isn't intended by agency law.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Those are important points. Let me ask you this. How many of the people reviewing management contracts do you think truly understand the nature of an agency relationship and agency law? Well, I hope all of the attorneys do.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Those are the ones that we would really be negotiating those things with. Board members, I think it depends with a lot of attorneys on board members on boards that we have these discussions with choosing not to use counsel. But I do think that is really important for this relationship that that that's understood and abided by.

Transitions Between Management Companies

SPEAKER_00 17:19

So the more continuity, the better the Leander and the board can work together to help the community, the less disruption in services. And as we all know, when there's turnover, then liability is created because things are missed or lost or whatever it may be. And that's truly the goal. I think both sides have an investment in it. And because someone is upset with something that has occurred or not occurred, we don't want to see a relationship just explode. So that is really what this is about. And there are always ways to get out of management contracts, as you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

So yeah, there's termination for convenience. Listen, I think you just have to strike a balance where you're not making it unduly difficult for an association to change, but you're also realizing that there is an investment, as you just said, when you're when you're onboarding a new community. Do you think part of the problem, Mara, though, is how difficult some management companies make that transition process for the incoming management company and has first service and other management companies try to address that from a legislative standpoint? Because I've seen it myself. I've had some communities tell me our prior management company, they wiped it clean. They made it very difficult for the young incoming management company to take over. So, as lawyers, when we have a client leave, we have certain professional obligations to turn over files, turn over documentation. Uh what's your perspective from a management standpoint when another management company makes it difficult for you to come into a community and hit the ground running?

SPEAKER_00 18:56

So for me, we're all trying to do the same thing. Um, your client today could be someone else's client tomorrow, and vice versa. So we all need to play together in the sandbox, right? We should be making easy for each other. And the law is really there. You've got a certain amount of time to turn things over. You cannot hold up records because you're owed money. And you just need to abide by those things. And if you don't, there's a DBPR and there's other avenues in place. So for service, there's a whole transition department. So that's what they do. And we've got it down to how we turn things over. And there's little complaint or disruption. Um, and I think a lot of management companies do as well. There may be some smaller ones or those who aren't as familiar that maybe aren't doing in that way. But I don't see a whole lot of problems with that, um, other than maybe just people and people, and sometimes there's pettiness in one people.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah, I guess that happens. And if you and if you run, if you bump into a management company that's not being cooperative during the transition process, I I imagine that you have ways to work around.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Sure. Um, our transition folks will, of course, reach out and do their best and try to get what's missing. There's always the ability to find public records. Sometimes we even go to the associations early and say, we can't get this, we can't get up and running. So we need you to help us with this default of this other manager company.

Claims Trends Fair Housing Recalls

SPEAKER_00 20:20

And that can be powerful.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah. I've had I've had those requests come in too. A few minutes ago, you mentioned indemnification. I wanted to ask you what claims have you seen that are driving, you know, your changes to your indemnification provisions?

SPEAKER_00 20:35

So, like I said, I think the concept has been the same. Um, we've always wanted that relationship the same. Maybe the words have changed over years trying to re-order it, but the same general concept has always been there. And we've been seeing for years now, and I'm sure the associations know an increase in dislitigation in general, personal injury, it's just very litigious, reckonable. And then we've seen more housing complaints recently. Uh, and also more in those environmental, those mold and pollution-related claims. We've actually added a contract that we'd like to see the associations carry that kind of colour bridge. Because those things we all know could be uh not included as part of the GL, they could be excluded, and we're seeing more and more of those those types of claims.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

So when you mention housing, you mean fair housing issues. Are you are we still seeing a lot of ESA and servicing the whole issues?

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Um, sometimes a lot, uh a lot of it has to do with I didn't get approved to come live inside this community, and it wasn't fair. Um I I think I'm being discriminated against because I got these violations. And even though the manager wouldn't issue by they don't issue the fines, the violations. They send at the meetings, they send the notices, the manager gets brought in all of these things along with the association.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

So the manager always gets. Gets dragged into the middle of a lot of these things, including really disputed elections and recalls. And how do your managers navigate all this? You know, honestly, I think it's gonna be a lot for them.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

They really are there to move forward that board vision and direction and run the operations day to day, and all of these other things come into play, and they really shouldn't have involvement in recalls and things of that nature. That's between boards and association counsel. And but it does put that stress on the day for sure, as they're there and all these other things are going on. And we we try to keep them to stay out of those issues to the extent possible. And if they're being pulled in and forced and pushed, and because we've seen a lot of a lot of it on all fronts, that's when I'm reaching out to you all and saying, this is going on. Let's work together and figure out how we can pull this down and explain the manager is not a part of this recall. They're not accepting ballots, they're not, we're not, you know, we're just not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

So a couple of years ago, Mara, I had a retired manager on the podcast. I think he had worked in the industry like five decades, and he was great. And he was retired, so he could like spill the tea on everything. But one of his concerns was that whether or not younger people were gonna want to go into community association management, if they were up to the challenges, if they fully understood what the job entailed. So can you tell us how difficult or easy is it right now to attract talent to a management team?

SPEAKER_00 23:38

So I'm not a part of the talent acquisition in the company. We seem to have plenty of people interested. We've got about 8,000 employees just in the south. I do understand that concern because it's become and for board as well. How do we know people want to be on the board when there's more liability and more responsibility and personal liability and criminal liability? It's scarier. Um, but I I could get some more information for you if you want to see if we've seen any downturns, but I'm not aware of any.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

So we're in Florida, which has some of the, I'm just gonna be frank, most bloated shared ownership statutes in the country. And every year we're virtually guaranteed to see more legislative tweaks made to 718, our condo act, 719, our cooperative act, and 720, our homeowners association act. And I know that a lot of management companies throughout the country are involved with legislative advocacy, law firms are

Expectations Budgets And Misconceptions

SPEAKER_01 24:40

as well. Associations are less well organized, but what how do you navigate when there's a piece of proposed legislation that could be great for an association, but not so great for a management in for the management industry, or vice versa? That seems to be a difficult needle to thread in terms of advocacy.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yeah, um, I've given this one some thoughts uh because I've become more involved in First Services legislative efforts in the past few years, and we do have a lobbyist. And thinking over all that we've been through these past years when it's been so busy, I would say our positions align with the associations almost all of the time. We're both interested in clearly written statutes and uh laws that we can actually put into effect operationally, because sometimes what's on paper isn't really what's practical. We all have interests in safety and transparency. Uh, we we so I think most of it aligns. And I I'm not sure of what really and doesn't align because even things that have to do with fees to management, in the end, it's passed through the association one way or another. We are really out there, yes, of course, for service, but also for the communities. And we take a lot of feedback from board members and we have our lobbies and a lot of the bands just talking in general about association law in general.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

What challenges do you think the management industry is facing today that maybe boards don't recognize?

SPEAKER_00 26:11

You know, I would say being a board member and being a manager has become more complex. There's so much to it these days, and I'm not sure that your average resident is really aware of just all that goes into play here. Managers have so many different things they have to accomplish with increased statutory burdens. And I think there's generally been uh a high expectation from the residents service-wise, but we're not really seeing an increase in association budgets or what managers are paid, because over the years there hasn't really been much of an increase in management fees um over time. So they're really kind of doing more with less. And as complex as it is, I'm not sure it seemed that way.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Do you get the sense that just about every community expects concierge level service? Even though they may not have signed on in terms of what they're paying for concierge level service?

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Uh more and more of that. And we want to provide it, but it's got to be in place that we're able to do that, right? Without the right staff and uh everything in place that the expectations that they don't align with the contract leads to unhappy residents.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

So I I had another guest on one time, Mara. He he appeared anonymously. He was in a new building, and he it was a very upscale building in Broward County. And one of his major complaints about the management relationship was that he he kept saying, We're owners. We need to be treated like owners. And I guess he got a sticker on his car for parking in the wrong space, and he was very affronted about this and push back because I said, Listen, you have a hundred units in your building. And he said, Well, I should have gotten a call. I I'm an owner. But that's what protocol is for. I mean, you've got, and this building had one manager and there was an assistant manager, but still, if you think about the average day and the amount of the amount of calls and emails and work and input that comes in, this particular owner's expectations, as you said, may not have been realistic given everything that the that the building was contending with, also contending with a brand new 558 claim. So they have just transitioned from developer control. And uh so you guys have your work cut out for you. I I do not envy you the amount of work that you have to do in some point in the days.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Some of these managers are just really unbelievable what they can accomplish.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Well, and I imagine those are the ones that make this their their career throughout their lives. I mean, we've had managers in place. I I've spoken to managers where this has been their life's work. Absolutely. So, Mara, if you could rewrite one misconception that boards have about management, and one misconception that management companies may have about boards, what would you rewrite those as?

SPEAKER_00 29:11

So I would say the board members need some clarity that they really are the governing body. They're the decision makers. Management is your day-to-day operations. They are bringing your ideas, your direction into being. So thinking that the manager is really in charge of decision making and all of these things is just an area that that's really their job, and that's why they're there. And then for my managers, I think we always need to keep in our minds these are volunteers, and they're really just doing the best with the time they have and what's in front of them. And they could be really highly educated and super professionals in their field, but this maybe isn't their field. And they maybe don't know everything involved. And then it's kind of everyone has to come together and understand the other's role and help the other with that role to the extent they can. And you know, we offer all these board orientations and trainings, and we try to we try to assist the one, and that's all very helpful. But a lot of that takes time, it's all on site, and just managers, remember these board members, this is not their day job. And board members, remember, you guys need to be the decision makers and let us do the day-to-day.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

That's a really great point because I do find in some communities that some boards do want to delegate almost everything, including important decisions, to their management. And it's one thing to say, listen, we have professional management, so that creates a comfortable buffer or cushion between us and our neighbors when it comes to collecting assessments, um, enforcing uh covenants and what have you. That's one thing. But completely delegating and abdicating your fiduciary responsibilities to a management professional, it's just not acceptable. It's not going to wind up um being in anybody's best interest, including the manager. But I will tell you, Mara, that in some of our self-managed communities, I've seen where they have a, they've hired like a cam just on their own in-house. I have seen that individual, especially if they've been there for years, almost take on the role of CEO of the building. And, you know, and it's like Fred is running the place. Like that's your manager, but you still bored have to make policy decisions and you have to enforce the governing documents and you are the fiduciary, not Fred. And ultimately, if you don't know what Fred's doing and he makes a mistake, it's going to come back around to you. So I think your your point about understanding, again, this gets us back full circle to the beginning, understanding the different roles here.

Emergency Response And Aging In Place

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Yes. So management companies, they're often on the front lines of emergencies. If a community is lucky enough to have a management team in place, can you give us a few examples of some crises that your team had to respond to?

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Sure. And this is exactly one of the reasons why associations have management, because this is something that they should be good at crisis management and emergencies. Um, so I thought of two. One is your your your standard that I'm sure we've all had experience in some of these high-rise building, high-rise buildings, and that's your major water intrusion events. We had a building where it was just flowing, and our team knew from their training where to go and shut off that water and get those emergency vendors in there, how to communicate with the owners, alert the insurance uh agent, get the insurance involved, just help the board navigate the entire process. Because when something like that happens, you end the immediate emergency, but then it's ongoing for a long period of time. And we've seen some of them do a really stellar job of that. And then uh recently, uh something else happened. And I think there's all kinds of emergencies. There's those big ones that we think of fire, flood, blood, hurricane. Um, but then there are other things that are emergent and are just not as big and open. And I thought this was a great story. We had a front desk person who sees the same resident past the desk all the time and says good morning on his way out to get a coffee, and then he comes back in. And then it was a few days in a note in a row, our front desk person didn't see this gentleman. So he got a little concerned, and he uh called up and didn't get a response. And he waited another day, still hadn't seen this gentleman. He asked if our maintenance uh person could go knock on the door, just hey, how are you? And no one answered. So they came down very concerned and spoke to the manager, and they called in a well check with the police, and it turned out that this poor resident was unconscious on the floor.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

I mean, so sorry what happened to him. Terrible to happen to him, but I I like the part of the story where it's kind of shows your manager's in your house, right? This is your home. And when these things happen and they notice and they help you, it's this really important part of our job, just those those kind of things. And those are what they're there for. So I really like that one.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

I hope the individual was okay. He was unconscious, but did he make it? Oh, thank thank goodness. Well, listen, you touched on some really significant trends, which is aging in place in our communities. So we've had people who moved in in their 40s and 50s decades ago, and now they may be in their 80s and 90s and less able to really navigate the challenges of daily life by themselves and also loneliness. Loneliness is an epidemic in our communities. And it's a great story because having a caring manager could be important with both of those situations, as opposed to we've got people living alone. And look, your board is your board, but they're volunteers, they're directors. And I don't know that they'd have that same comfort level of, you know, checking on somebody, but to have the manager pick up on that, pick up on the daily habits and check up and make a difference, that's important.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Yeah, he he he was great. And I I'm sure there are people all over in our buildings that really know these residents and their day-to-day, and they're really become a part of their community.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Do you hear that from your managers a lot? That they get very attached to the communities in which they work? You know, a lot of them do.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

You go to that same place every day and you talk to these people, and they think that they really put their heart into it and kind of be becomes theirs.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

That's great to hear. It is. What about now? We we are in, I said at the outset, we were taping June 16th. Books will probably be released sometime in July, maybe early August, which will still have us smack dab in the middle of a six-month hurricane season. Um, what lessons have have you guys learned from these different hurricanes every year, or at least threats of hurricanes when it comes to helping a community prepare?

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yes. So I actually uh went to our

Hurricane Prep And Documentation

SPEAKER_00 36:25

operation folks who are responsible for hurricane preparedness. And the answer I got was plans should be in place for before, during, and after an event. And I think that I agree with that. We want to know what we should have in place before the hurricane comes. Do the trees need to be trimmed? Do we need to check on these others, whatever it may be? What are we going to do during the hurricane? What needs to be shut down? Who's being evacuated? Are we in that zone? And then after, how are we going to handle whatever that damage may be and communicating with the unodotes and bringing that back? And, you know, the right communication really matters in all these circumstances, all emergencies, hurricanes. It's it's communication is really important to the residents.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Yeah, I imagine, Mara, in your communities that have a lot of employees. And I'm talking about the very upscale, uh, high-rise communities where you've got front desk staff, you've got valet, you've got security. Did you want to manage those owners' expectations about when those folks are going to have to leave the community to go take care of their own personal homes and families and when they are to be expected to return?

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Yes, and all of that is handled. And then from a legal perspective, from my perspective, I think that documentation is something that's important when we have these natural disasters because insurance companies want evidence of what occurred. They want pictures, they want to see things or any claims you may have, any uh third-party claims that may be brought? I I like to see uh everybody doing a good job of keeping track of the before, the during, and the after to the extent that they can and making sure it's all documented.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Well, I can't let you leave without asking the question that I've been asking many, many of our podcast guests over the last couple of years, which is how do you think artificial intelligence is going to change the management industry? Because I gotta imagine you're having a lot of conversations. I know at Becker we're having a lot of conversations about how it's already impacting the legal profession. I can tell you, I feel like on a daily basis, I am having conversations with ChatGPT and Claude because a lot of owners will now, you know, they'll run their run their question through AI. It comes back a lot of times like Frankenstein's monster because they haven't put in all of the correct prompts. But I'm imagining you're having a lot of these conversations in the management industry. So, how do you think AI

AI Changes Plus Myth Busting

SPEAKER_01 38:55

is going to impact you? And what are you doing to either embrace it or you know, adapt to it?

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Yeah, so we're looking to embrace it, both in my legal department here, but also as a management company. And I think they'll have a choice. Residents are embracing it as well. I don't know if you see any of those record requests that AI wrote that are a mile-long in the process, even though what should I produce? So it has that aspect, but we're more embracing in terms of what can we do to be better. And we're already seeing just with the technology we have now that has some AI functionality that we're able to respond to residents' questions and reflects quicker. Uh, we have an app for that, a homeowner digital assistant app. Financials can be turned out quicker. And as we get more involved in this and it gets better, I think ultimately managers won't spend so much time administratively. That's going to be done through AI. And their time can really shift to those things that I'll call are really the important things. Those things that require that judgment and experience, the problem solving, um, board priorities. What should they be? How can we talk about that? That free planning, those relationships. I think that's really where there'd be room to have more time on those things uh when all of those uh tasks will be done more quickly. So I think it's going to be positive.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

I think that's what we're all hoping is that AI is going to just bring so much more convenience to all of our professional lives and even personal lives, um, and not that it's going to wipe us all out. I share, I share your enthusiasm. I think I'm I'm cautiously optimistic.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

I I choose not to think about us all being wiped out. And I hope we all can learn to use it in a productive way and uh not in the way of the insane record quest way.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Oh yeah, I'm grappling with those as well. And it's it's right now it's still very, very easy to tell when it is when it is has been generated by AI. So gotta wrap up and thank you for being with us. But is there a community association myth that you'd like to debunk?

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Yeah, there is. I I feel like a lot of communities manager is the big bad guy. They're here to enforce and to um get you in trouble and define you. And I think that all of those things happen to keep the community running. There are violation notices and there are collections, and all these things happen as part of the community, but I think it's that's just a small part. And really, the manager company's there to work with the board for the benefit of the residents and the community and help them through good times, bad times, projects, day-to-day, and just kind of it sounds a little cheesy, but kind of just help make their lives a little better in the building, right? And and the myth of the monsters here to control everybody, I'd like to say, is just really we could put that one to bed.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Okay, let's do it. And I don't think it's cheesy at all. Meryl, thank you so much for joining us today. Yeah, thank you for having me, Don. It's a pleasure. Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to follow and rate us on your favorite podcast platform or visit takeittotheboard.com for more ways to connect.