The Podolskiy Method: Parenting an athlete
There is no roadmap for parenting. No "one size fits all". Together we will learn what works and what does not work. Join and listen to doctors, coaches, athletes, parents, and many other guests of all walks of life. Lets take "parenting an athlete" to the next level and give them the right tools for the job.
The Podolskiy Method: Parenting an athlete
What Makes a Hockey Player? Hint: It's Not the $1000 Skates
Finding hockey equipment that truly fits can transform a player's experience on the ice. In this revealing conversation with Jon from Black Biscuit LLC, we dive deep into the evolution of hockey gear and how proper fit trumps expensive brand names every time.
Jon shares the fascinating journey of Black Biscuit, from its origins in 1994 creating the first dedicated roller hockey pants to becoming a company focused on custom sublimated jerseys and uniforms that make players feel like "a million bucks." His insider perspective on equipment manufacturing reveals surprising truths about what really matters in hockey gear selection.
"A composite stick at 325 grams is a composite stick at 325 grams - it doesn't matter if it says Warrior, True, Bauer, CCM, Sherwood, or some no-name," Jon explains, challenging the marketing hype that drives equipment prices skyward. His straightforward advice for parents navigating youth hockey equipment purchases is refreshingly practical: focus on comfort and proper fit rather than flashy brands.
The conversation extends beyond equipment to explore youth hockey culture, effective coaching approaches, and the character traits that define successful athletes. Jon shares valuable insights on creating positive team environments where players learn to support each other while developing their skills. His emphasis on sportsmanship, making hockey fun, and helping players build confidence provides a blueprint for coaches and parents alike.
Whether you're new to hockey or a seasoned player looking to upgrade your gear, this episode offers invaluable guidance on making equipment choices that enhance performance while avoiding unnecessary expenses. Join us for a conversation that will change how you think about hockey equipment and team culture.
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Good evening everybody and welcome to the Podolsky Method podcast. It's great to be back with everybody here tonight. I am your host, ilya Podolsky. I'm a level five user hockey master coach, creator and host of the Podolsky Method podcast. Owner and operator of skate sharpening shop called Sharp Skate, new York, usa Hockey coach developer and a CPA by trade on the side, and I'd like to introduce to you guys a few of our sponsors here. And I'd like to introduce to you guys a few of our sponsors here Print Only With Us, a full printing shop here in New York City where you could get your T-shirts, caps, gears and much, much more.
Speaker 1:For those of you guys looking for protection for your teeth and you're playing hockey, check out Wargate Hockey for a cage that goes over your visor. Check out Wargate Hockey for a cage that goes over your visor. Get 10% off with the code 10PODOLSKIY. How is hockey? Of course, as usual, get 10% off with them at PODOLSKIY10. Check out the New York Junior Rangers programming.
Speaker 1:We are done for this year, but we're back in September. There's plenty of camps, ball hockey and a ton of wonderful events for those kids that are looking to start or continue to play and you want to get into the game with the New York Rangers. There's alumni involved and active players as well. So definitely encourage you guys to take a look at nhlcom. Slash rangers, slash community, slash youth dash hockey. It's really a great sport. Also, check out sagaciousmindsorg, which is a non-for-profit organization geared towards working with kids with disabilities and without through sport. I am involved heavily with our organization. It's a wonderful, wonderful task. But let's get to the point here tonight and we have a wonderful guest with me John from Black Biscuit LLC. John has a bachelor degree, he is a trader by trade and he's an owner of Hockey Depot and BlockBiscuit. John, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having us Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Of course it's my pleasure and I'm actually proud to partner with you guys for our spring tournament team at the Lobster Fest in Rhode Island coming June 13th. So we're excited about that, Really excited to work with you guys. So maybe you could start a little bit by telling folks a little bit about yourself and what sports you played growing up and a little bit about your background.
Speaker 2:Sure. So you know, I grew up on Long Island. Majority of my sports were really soccer and tennis. Sports were really soccer and tennis. Um, we dabbled in deck hockey, slash back in the early 1980s when micron came out with the roller hockey skate. Uh, we both, a bunch of us had, uh, microns and we, you know, chased the old ladies off the tennis courts and, you know, carried the nets on our bicycles on our head and, you know, played pickup roller hockey, you know. And that continued through high school. In college we started, you know, our college deck hockey team and ever since then, you know, from probably 16 on, you know, playing hockey. You, you know, dabbled in ice hockey for a little bit till I hurt my knee and then we started backing down into a roller again that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I actually come with the roller background as well. Um, you know, I probably talked a little bit about this on the show, but I don't know if I did in extensively. Uh, friend of mine, anton Antipov, who is a bodybuilder, he was actually a guest on the show as well. He, we went to some junior high school. He called me up one day and said let's go play hockey. And I had no idea what it was. So we just bought roll blades that had those wooden wheels on them and you know, those 99 cents hockey sticks with rubber that just rubbed off in three minutes and we just went out and played and you know we used to do. You know, at some point it converted to like seven hours a day and you know, you start looking at the equipment and look at the gear and you know, started to really learn about that stuff yep, yep, we, we did that as well.
Speaker 2:We all picked up the my election pads, the my like goalie pads that would rip after you slid on them, that my like sticks that had the little circular, you know, in there, so you can really shoot the ball, which is what we were using. Right, it's a makeshift football helmet that we kind of put some weird, weird plexiglass on, so it was crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting how innovative you were. I think we used the electric tape as a puck because, you know, once you rub it off, it became smooth, right, yep.
Speaker 2:We used tennis balls and then we moved up to a lacrosse ball with tape, which hurt a lot, and then we went back down to tennis balls and then we tried with the puck, but it just didn't really work, so we stuck with the ball folks a little bit about Black Biscuit, and I know you sent me some background about the company and I thought it was really interesting how that transpired, so maybe you could talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Sure. So Black Biscuit was a three person creation back in 1994. They were three guys from the LA area and they had a lot of buddies playing pro beach roller hockey and a lot of the guys were wearing shorts and no shin guards. And they asked the guys at Black Biscuit initially to come up with some kind of pant not a sweat pant but a pant. So they created the roller hockey pant essentially. You know they were the og and roller hockey. Um, you know, to this day some people still have them. I actually still do those. Those pants were heavy duty, nylon and codora, virtually indestructible, um, but know, as the sport evolves, so does the equipment right. So you know, black Biscuit then morphed into jerseys and, you know, as the Hockey Depot. We were one of the first internet dealers selling Black Biscuit online, dealing with the college when they started the NCRHA, which was awesome.
Speaker 2:We dealt with a lot of colleges before all of this licensing came into town and then BlackBiscuit kind of disappeared for a little while. There was one of the partners left, the other partner left, the third partner that was left with it. That stuck with it, rather got into a little bit of a legal battle with the fabric manufacturer overseas and lost the case, but the trademark was given to the fabric company that did nothing with it, company that did nothing with it. So while the Hockey Depot was still around, we were still selling a lot of hockey equipment. You know whether it be barrel warrior. Ccm, you know true, wasn't around then. Sherwood was a big one, christian brothers was a big one. I was watching the trademark because I saw how unique black biscuit was. I knew the guys there and when the trademark went dormant I grabbed it and I brought back one of the original partners to we what I would call biscuit 2.0. And that was in 2012.
Speaker 2:And we relaunched in 2012. And it was a very different world than what the original business partner who I brought in knew. And we brought back the original pants and nobody wanted them and nobody wanted them. They wanted the lighter pants that Mission was making or Bauer was making, and nobody cared that they ripped after two games. They just wanted a lighter pant.
Speaker 2:So, fast forward. We real quickly pivoted, started making those pants lighter better, the biscuit way, which was that flair of that old school pro pant which we now call the player pant. And we introduced something called the arrow pant, which is a little bit more on the tapered side and we saw the need that if we're selling teams, pants, sublimation was there. Pants sublimation was there and the factory that we own a percentage of started introducing us to sublimation and we found it great. So we started making sublimated jerseys to match the pants and now you had teams matching pants and jerseys.
Speaker 2:And now, fast forward to 2025, and now fast forward to 2025, we're just dominating this market in sublimated jerseys and pants, and we've always done ice hockey, but ice hockey is a very big piece for us as well, because the beauty of sublimation is whatever you can dream about, it can really become reality. And that's part of what we say is we have your vision become reality. And if you look at our website and want to peruse and go into our design vault, those are all actual teams that wear our jerseys. They are not concepts. We are not a template company. You guys might think that one of these designs is so cool and we want our colors, and the answer is, unfortunately, no, we won't do that. We will not have numerous teams having similar designs and I think that's one of the real cool things about BlackBiscuit.
Speaker 2:You've chosen us and we want you know, know, half of the battle is looking good, feeling good, you play good, right? So that's really how we position this company. You know, it's a fun company and it's always been known as the fun company. You know, and you know, as we're getting into this new era of hockey, delivery is important. More important than that is really quality, you know, and a reasonable price, right? Yeah, hockey is expensive, whether you play roller or ice or even deck hockey, you know. So you want to make sure that the equipment that you're wearing, including your uniform, is going to last, and that is one of the founding principles that we strive to make sure that everything goes through numerous quality control tests before they're shipped. And you know, here we are and you know we're thriving. You know, we were acquired by Thunder Bay Hockey, thunder Bay Holding Company, which now holds the Hockey Depot, black Biscuit and some of the other sister companies the Skate Depot and All-Star Athletics. So we're getting in the right direction of where we want to be as a vertically integrated company.
Speaker 1:Awesome. It sounds like an amazing journey, starting from going from all the way to the beginning in the original. You know the original product and kind of like evolving over time um. But speaking about you know evolution and speaking about how the equipment has changed, I think one of the things that I noticed in in hockey players specifically is, with um, with better equipment, there is a little bit less of that fear factor when kids play the game. And you know, especially when you're talking about youth and if you talk about those old Jofa helmets, right, that people used to wear, which had very little protection, you know you could bump your head and get a concussion very easily. Now these things absorb the energy of the impact so well that you know it's actually getting harder for you to get injured, and so maybe you could talk a little bit about the evolution of the products in terms of just safety and how that impacts the athletes.
Speaker 2:Sure, I mean. So I think, if you think back to the 1980s, when you're talking about Jofa right and Cooper and watching, you know old clips of the NHL with these goalie masks that, literally, you know, look like the Michael Myers mask, right it's, these guys got hurt, right, it's a very different game than it is now and these guys played with minimal, minimal protection, right. So I think, if you're looking at ice hockey versus roller or deck, right, you had two sets of equipment. You had the Milek Franklin World, right, and then you had the CCM, bauer, to a lesser degree, cooper, jofa, right, I mean they all kind of came under umbrella companies, umbrella companies. And then you know, you fast forward to now and you have true sherwood, you know power warrior, and everything has become like you said, ilia. You know protection. You know a helmet cost 50 bucks and that was probably a lot a long time ago. Now you can't get a helmet for 50 bucks. You know that you would feel comfortable playing any type of hockey other than, basically, pickup hockey, which you know is not going to be physical, as physical as you know competitive hockey.
Speaker 2:So you know we see a lot of innovation going in. You know we speak to a lot of the companies that manufacture this stuff. We've, you know, been to the factories that make it and the technology is is amazing. It's. I think it's only going to get better, you know. But what we've noticed is, in the roller world, that equipment disappeared. It's now only basically ice hockey. So shin guards are shin guards, right, elbow pads are elbow pads, gloves are gloves sticks everyone's using a composite stick. I think the abs, composite abs stick that everyone used in roller or street or deck is gone, you know. So it's watching these. The equipment become better, lighter, more durable and lasting more than 29 or 32 days, being more, you know, having the right flex, the right curve, and it's, I mean. And then you get into the skates where you can physically mold your foot at any age and get a skate that's not going to hurt your foot and take weeks to break in. I think it's just, it's fascinating for us as we continue to, you know, talk to all these guys and watch what they're doing, you know.
Speaker 2:But then again you have that very crowded market, right, everyone's doing it. You know, the ones that really did it first were graph, you know. And where are they now? Right, you know? Yeah, they're coming back through vaughn. You know, michael vaughn, he's a visionary, right, you know, makes incredible goalie equipment and he is, he owns the graph line now. So it's you know.
Speaker 2:But they were the og and those, those custom skates, and you know, you see it with True, you see it with Bauer, you see it with CCM. You know those are the big guys. You know what makes a True skate better than a Bauer or CCM? That I don't know. You know, I don't know, but I think it's. They're all making sure that the protection is just getting better, better, better, right.
Speaker 2:And I think part two of it is you have guys like tj yoshi of war road, right of the washington capitals, backing war road and wearing the neck guards right after, unfortunately, you know, that player overseas died and it's. It's about making sure that. You know. I think, with the way in which this equipment and this even goes, you know, for jerseys and pants, right, it has to fit properly. You have to make sure that this stuff fits. There's no such thing as two more socks. There's no such thing as, oh, we're gonna buy a half a size bigger, it's gotta fit, whether it's a shin guard, a glove, an elbow pad, a skate a stick. You know, that's why they make all these different sizes and all these different flexes and all these different. You know, fit two, fit one, fit three, narrow, double e, you know something in the middle. So it's, I like the fact that everyone's evolving and and continuing to make things better, right, and not price gouging people. Oh, you want that helmet, it's eight hundred dollars.
Speaker 2:You know that, that I think that that's the beauty of what I'm seeing, that there's it's a and a lot more safety as well. Coming from the, from the nhl, right back when I was watching it, and probably when you were watching it in the early 80s, I don't know if there was something called player safety. You know, I don't think anybody ever mentioned that right, right. So you know, I think it really comes down to, you know, I mean, and we could probably thank the NFL for this right, because they are the ones that really early, really early on putting concussion protocol. And now you know, you see all the leagues, whether it be Major League Baseball, nhl, the PWHL, right, everyone's doing player safety, right, right. And you know, I think and I like the fact that all of the companies and also, in particular, we try to make sure that you know everything's on the up and up and it's really just continuing to get better.
Speaker 2:Like how can we integrate a girdle? Do people want to wear a girdle with a pair of roller hockey pants or one of our shells, or do they prefer to go buy their own girdle? One of our shelves or do they prefer to go buy their own girdle? Right? I think that's what we try to figure out. Talk to customers, talk to other teams and you know the consensus so far is kids like to pick their own girdle, whether it be a shock doctor or CCM. So you know what. We're not doing it. Let them wear what they want to wear, right? Yeah, I love that we're not doing it. Let them wear what they want to wear right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that, and so you know, you mentioned the difference in the equipment style right in different fits. So one question I wanted to ask you is and we have a lot of listeners on the show who are, you know, beginners and just getting the kid on the ice for the first time or just starting out hockey versus people who are, you know, at a higher level, maybe tier two, tier one, even, you know, maybe some of the college players, um, so what would you say, um, what would be your recommendation for, uh, somebody who is like an entry level player and what they should look for when they're looking for equipment, versus somebody who's more experienced?
Speaker 2:so I, I think you know, if you're planning to put your child in ice hockey and it's a learn to skate type of program I mean, you mentioned it as one of the sponsors right, new York Rangers, backslash community, backslash youth hockey that's your biggest bang for the buck. You're getting skates helmet, you name it. You're getting the full kit for $3.50, something like that, right, I think? Last I saw and you know it's going to be fit correctly, right. So you know, and it's also, I think, going to the stores and getting the right person. It's also, I think, going to the stores and getting the right person, whether it be Hockey Monkey or Pure Hockey, which seems to be the 900-pound gorilla and making sure you're comfortable with the salesperson. That I even tell my kids when I coach is don't be afraid to tell the salesperson or your mom or your dad something doesn't feel right. Just don't buy it. To buy it, make sure it fits, make sure it's comfortable. You know, yeah, the skates you're going to have to break in a little. That's just the way it is.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's come a long way since you know I was skating on, you know, sherbrooks or whatever that, whatever they were, when my dad threw me onto a pond, but it's the proper fit, right, and I don't know what that is. You know, in one skate I'm a fit two and the other skate I'm a fit three makes no sense, right, my feet are flat, as can be, but everything fits differently. And don't feel that you have to be brand loyal. You can wear true gloves, sherwood shin guards, bauer skates and a CCM helmet. It does not matter. It has to feel comfortable and it has to fit properly, and I think that's that, that's the, that's what the advice that I give everybody that asks me.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, I think it's so important to make sure that you actually enjoying your gear and I think so many people, like you said like they go for the maybe more expensive brand new you know, a thousand dollar pair of skates but then they hate it Right.
Speaker 2:The shiny new toy is not necessarily the best. And just because it costs $499, I can tell you, a composite stick at 325 grams is a composite stick, 325 grams. It doesn't matter if it says Warrior, true Bauer, ccm, sherwood or some no-name, right. And if you look at the NHL, yeah, you're going to see the big boys, but if you watch Ovechkin, there's no name on his stick, right, right, but it's his stick, right. So at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what the name is. The grams is the grams. You have to be comfortable with the way it feels, the way it fits with you and the curve, because the curve is the curve. Everyone does a P88 or a P92 or a PM9. So I tried to explain that to my, my little guy, who you know uses a lot of sherwood, right, I think sherwood is the biggest bang for the buck, to be honest with you, um, you know. And I tell him hey, if it's good enough of, you know, conor Bedard and Matthew Kachuk, it's good enough for you.
Speaker 2:So it's, you know, the marketing behind any of these brands. It's big dollars, right? Does you know? Does an Air Jordan make you jump higher? No, but everybody wanted them, right, and me too, I wanted three pairs. So it's, you know, don't. I would say again, don't buy into the marketing. Just because it's a $499 skate or a $299 stick Does it make you going to shoot harder? Does it make you going to pass faster? The skates aren't going to make you skate faster.
Speaker 2:It has to fit and make sure it's comfortable, and the same goes with jerseys and socks. If you're, you know, a smaller person, you want to make sure you have an 18 or 20-inch sock, not a 24-inch sock. Make sure your jersey is not hanging down almost to your knees, so that also comes into play. With the proper fit, it even gets down to the socks you use. Don't use a thick sock, use a ski sock or a thin, thin skate sock. They're relatively inexpensive. It doesn't matter the brand, that's. I think that's the thing. It has to be comfortable and you have to feel the fit and make sure everything you know aligns correctly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you know it's such a good point and it kind of translates so well to the actual game as well. Right, if you think about people chasing triple a, you know these like letters, these numbers, and they kind of sometimes forget the actual experience, what happens on the ice, right? Um, you know, and it's sad to see that because it's you know, the actual experience is what really matters and you want your kid to enjoy his time and not come over the ice with boosters all over the place, right.
Speaker 2:And I think a lot of the parents have to remember they're kids, they are kids. They like their video games too. They like still running into mom and dad's bed at 10, 30 at night because they can't sleep right. They're still little kids, even 12 year olds, like. So, like, don't be so hard on them, let them still be a kid, right. Uh, then know, not everyone's going to be a Wayne Gretzky or an Ovechkin or a Kachuk or a Conor Bedard or a Celebrini. Let them play at the level that they're at. I'm not saying, don't push them if you feel that they can do better, but let them be kids.
Speaker 2:I think that's what I'm coaching. It's okay if they fall and miss the puck. You know I'm not gonna make them feel bad. That's listen, it is what it is right. I mean that does.
Speaker 2:The kid's self-esteem isn't any better. He knows he missed the puck or she missed the puck, right. You don't need to make it worse. You don't need to penalize the person either. So you know, when I'm coaching it's you have to be the kid's advocate as well, and I think that's a big part of the game that a lot of coaches or I don't, I shouldn't say a lot of coaches. A handful of coaches miss, and the parents miss, right, they want their kid to be the best, they want them to be the rock star. But you know I use there's no I in team, right, so together each achieve more. That's my mentality when I'm out there coaching and trying to teach my little guys how to play. And we have a co-ed league that I coach in and it's just different skill sets, right? You know we have a first line and a second line. The first line is a little weaker, the second one's a little stronger. But you know what Like if they, if they feel like they've contributed, that's great. I want them to feel happy. The last thing I want to do before every game I have a little motto.
Speaker 2:I say what do we want to do at the end of the game? And of course some kids say win. Yeah, of course we want to win. I said but what happens if we don't win? What else do we have to do? And they said have fun. I said exactly, that's the most important thing. You have to have fun in what you're doing, because the second you're not having fun, that's it. Yeah, it's not going to be an enjoyable experience for you, probably. That's it. Yeah, it's not going to be. It's not going to be an enjoyable experience for you, probably for your mom and dad, cause you're going to be upset, which means they're going to be upset. It's not going to be good for your teammates, right? It's not an eye sport. It's not like you're playing singles tennis. It's a team sport. The team does well, we do you do well. Does well we do you do well. The team doesn't do well you don't do well, right, it can't.
Speaker 1:There's no finger pointing on my team ever. Yeah, I like that. And, john, when you, um, I guess when you take on teams and you see, let's say, difference in skill, right, because a lot of co-ed teams I coach a lot of co-ed teams as well and in youth hockey, you, we know that a lot of times we don't select kids. We take kids that come to tryouts, we try to put them on teams and we try to build all of them up. We try to put them, I guess, on teams of equal skills, just so they're having more of that competitive engagement. Right, you don't want somebody who is three levels above you just skating circles around you scoring all the goals while you can't touch the puck. That also takes away from the fun. So you want to try to put them in the right buckets. But what's your approach usually when you have a team that has a wider skill set?
Speaker 2:let's say so I mean, you know, we try to teach when I'm coaching, to the lowest common denominator, right? And what I do is I tell the kids hey, you know what you need to help, you need to help make this child better and you need to help build this person's este. Hey, you know what you need to help, you need to help make this child better and you need to help build this person's esteem, right, if it's someone that is, you know they'll learn to skate. They just finished and they want to play in the league. Great, you know. But I put it on the kids because, and what I say to them is what, if that was you, how would you want to feel? And they say well, I would want my teammates to help me and tell me if I'm doing something wrong and show me what to do and I'm like right. So that's what we need to do, because, at the end of the day, if you can make somebody better, that's making you better.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right, I love that, yeah, and I think that that kind of also builds on the whole. You know that experience, you know the experience of sports and what you want out of sport. Right, you want a kid who is social, who is focused on the positive and wants to help those around them, as opposed to you know everybody's terrible and I don't want to play with them. I should be on that team, right, yeah, right, I talk. You know, I talk a lot here on the show about what I call kitchen talk, when parents kind of go home or go somewhere and they start talking negatively about other teammates or the coaches or each other and that kind of trickles down into the, I guess, the coachability of the child. So have you seen that in your experience where that impact kind of goes into the child and you have to address it with the parents or maybe with the family to try to get them back into the culture?
Speaker 2:So I've been lucky. I haven't seen that on the teams that I have that I've coached, but I have seen it on other teams. Right, and you know, I think it it starts when you have parents that might be a little delusional, right addressed, and you know it's then it. I think that that's, you know, and I think it has to do with like the upbringing right and you know I have no idea, like I said, I haven't seen it, but you know when that I mean when we do hear of that that is addressed immediately. Like there is no bashing another team. You know there's no. You know. You know making fun of anybody, like you know we, the coaches, collectively in the league, you know we'll make sure that. You sure that we address that very quickly and there's no laughing. I don't want to say there's no celebrating when there's a goal, but there's no excessive sellies or whatever these kids are doing these days. We want to get the game back on. You know we don't listen. A goalie lets up a goal. They know they let up the goal. They don't need it to be rubbed in their face Like we teach them.
Speaker 2:It's very important for me and my kids that I coach and and my son is is the sportsmanship Cause. I think that's half the battle. Right, you can be very talented, but you can have a real crappy sportsmanship. No one's going to want to play with you, no one's going to want you on their team eventually. I mean, and I think that's really an important component that a lot of people don't get, and I've seen it at a lot of tournaments that we've been part of. At black biscuit, where we're sponsoring, I'm like wow, like you know where's the sportsmanship, like you know, that's an important thing. You know, after the game you go up to the other goalie and you say, good game, right, I mean that's it. I mean that's it. You don't make fun of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think the point and I agree with you the point with youth sports is to create individuals and players or individuals who can go outside of the sport and improve, I guess, the culture and the society that we live in right, improve the experience it live in right, improve the experience. Um, it's easy to point the finger, it's easy to make fun of somebody when you are in a position of, let's say, power, or you're in a position of, uh, maybe you're better skilled in that specific situation. But then when the tables are reversed, you know, and, like you said, how does that make you feel?
Speaker 2:right, you're on the other side of that equation right, and you know, I mean, you know, the same method that I use in coaching is the same method that we use in business. At black biscuit we don't bash other companies. I'm sure we get bashed and that's okay, you know. You want to talk about me on social media? Great that's. You know, that's flattery.
Speaker 2:I look at it, right, you know it, it, it it comes down to if you want to be respected, you need to respect others, right, and you need it's just as important to be, you know, have great sportsmanship on their ice as it is off the ice. You know, and when you're playing, even off the ice, you still are a reflection of the team you're playing on. You know, and you don't want that bad persona pushed off to you. Like, oh, look at that guy. Like you know what a pompous person. Like, oh, he's so arrogant, or she's so arrogant, oh my god. Like, oh god, we can't wait to play them because you know what we're gonna really like. I know it's a no checking league, but you know we're just we're gonna try to hurt them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've heard kids say that, you know, at 10 years old, like that's not something that any coach should condone at all. You know I've been lucky enough. Like I said, I'm not. I haven't seen it on my teams. Now I'm not saying that the kids might not like each other, but I've never seen anybody on my team go after anybody. You know, they're always professional. I try them, I try to tell them to be. You know, just remember, you are a reflection of the team. So on the ice is the same thing on the bench after the game. You know it's a game, it's only one, it's an n of one, right? It's not like you know there's's a game, it's only one, it's an N of one, right? It's not like you know, there's always the next game.
Speaker 1:So you know and I love that you touched on the fact that you're, you know, a parent coach. I'm a parent coach as well. I have three boys playing hockey, so I get to you know, I've been coaching for the past like all over a decade now and coaching other kids and on my own. It's a little different when your own kid's on the bench than when they're not, so you have to be very mindful and aware of that, of course.
Speaker 2:But I wanted to ask you to kind of bring us back a little bit to the beginning of the conversation and maybe you could talk a little bit about the difference between how you were parented and what you're doing now with your kid so the way I was parented was, you know, my parents instilled in me at a young age that you need, whatever you're going to do you, you need to give it your all right, whether it be playing on the soccer team, playing tennis, playing hockey, cub Scouts, religious school school right and friendships right. What you get in is what you're going to get out. If you take, take, take, take, take, eventually your friends go from here to here. So that's how I was parented. My parents didn't baby me. But again, this is an era where we would come home from school and my mother would say don't come home until your father comes home. And my father didn't get home until 730. Like, didn't know, there were no cell phones, she didn't know where we were. She just said don't get hit by a car, right?
Speaker 2:So I think it's a different world now, where parents are superly overprotective, which I don't necessarily disagree with. I think I I wouldn't say I'm overly protective I want my son to, you know, and I have a stepdaughter who's 20, in college and, you know, led a little bit of a sheltered life. So it's, it's, I want her to get out and experience the, the love and the breakup and the. Oh, my God, I should not have drawn vodka on a thursday night. When I had class on friday I got I'm horrible, right. Or my little guy, you know, experience some of these things. So these are life lessons, so they understand, instead of just having this bubble and oh, you're a perfect little kid, right. And I think that's what my little guy says is oh, dad, you know, you're screaming on the bench. I'm like well, you got to cover the slot right. Like if somebody's there and you're not seeing it, what do you want me to do? Like I'm your coach, I got to tell you to cover the slot right. Your players aren't telling you that because they don't understand it. So I think again, that's part Like we didn't have really organized lessons like they do now with learn to play, and we kind of taught ourselves right, we taught ourselves on a video game like Nintendo 64 or whatever in television like learn how to play, like we didn't know what offsides was Nobody. You know, we played dodgeball in in elementary school so it was really it's a lot of trying to get them to understand the fundamentals and, you know, doing what my parents did, where I wouldn't say give them enough rope to hang themselves. But let them be kids, right? I don't think I'd let my nine-year-old now, like my mother and father did, ride his bike to the rink. But it's, you know, letting them be kids, let let them experience and make sure that you know, within reason, that they're they're they're making those right decisions earlier. Right, I think, decisions earlier, right.
Speaker 2:I think we lived, I mean, when I grew up in the, you know, the late 70s, early 80s. It was a real different world. You know, you didn't have the internet, you didn't have social media, you didn't have a cell phone, you didn't have Snapchat or Instagram or I don't even know all these other apps. Right, you know, you don't like a kid. You got into an argument at the school and the next day you were best friends with him. So it was just a very different world now. There was no bullying and there was no, you know, little bit protective. But you also need to give the child enough confidence that they can make these decisions within reason at their age and making the right decisions right. I can only steer them right. I think that's really it, um, you know I mean listen, like everyone.
Speaker 2:Well, as you grow up, you sometimes make the bad choices and you're like, oh my God, I probably shouldn't have done that. But you know it is what it is right, you know, and you know the punishment's going to come and you know, all right, you can't watch TV. This was the wipehead, like that, was it. You know I had to read a book or actually do something. You know, go out and clean the yard. So it's. I think that's a lot of what I try to do. I try to instill, like responsibilities right, like my little guy, you know it. Just make your bed in the morning. Right, it's your bed. You have to take pride in it. Like, take pride in what you do and make sure you. The one thing that my parents said and I think I said this earlier was they made sure that I gave it 100% when I was playing goalie in soccer. That's it. I was laser focused on making sure that I was playing goalie and I was present. I think that's it. I wasn't preoccupied Again.
Speaker 2:We didn't have, growing up, a lot of these exterior factors that are around. We had soccer practice three days a week. There was no option to miss it because you had something else to do or didn't want to go. You went miss it because you had something else to do or didn't want to go. You went rain, shine, foggy, cold. Right now it's. You know, it's a. You know what? John doesn't feel well today. He's not gonna go. What do you mean? What do you mean he's not gonna go there? There's a practice. So you know, I tell my little guy listen, you got to take pride in what you do and make sure when you are doing it you need to give it 100% Now.
Speaker 1:you know we you know in our childhood we were more self-motivated to do things than you know it is now, with all the distractions and social media and the games and computers.
Speaker 2:I think so, a hundred percent, I think so. I think that we wanted what we put our mind to. We did what we put our mind to, we did. If we wanted to learn about hockey or soccer or football, either you played the sport, you tried it, or you actually went to the library and took a book out and had a read about it. Right, right, there was no video on watching what hockey is and what the positions are, or football or soccer, or you know. So I think it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, like we talked about equipment and uniforms, it evolves, right. So technology evolved. Now you have have ai, which is a whole other thing. So everything's at the fingertips here. These kids don't have to lift anything. They could just go on to mom and dad's phone if they don't have an ipad or a book or whatever they have at school and at their fingertips they can watch 1700 videos on how to skate, how to stop, how to stick, handle the proper positioning of equipment. I mean, you name it, it's there, it's really at their fingertips. So I think, yeah, I think we were much more motivated to really figure it out, learn, do it properly, because there was no other way for us to do it Right.
Speaker 1:And I also think that you know to your point, when we talk about equipment going to a store and trying on those skates and trying out that stick, and trying out that equipment it was an experience in itself that now a lot of people are starting to miss, because everything is internet-based.
Speaker 1:You ordered it, you didn't like it, you sent it back, you ordered a different one, and so they're missing that component that you were talking about. When you walk into a store and you have a person who works there, who can guide you and help you with the fit and help you with the right equipment, and you feel like you just walked out with all this stuff and it just gives you this euphoric kind of experience that you know I think kids are starting to miss a little bit, yeah I mean I'll tell you, I own the hockey depot, right, so I'm buying all my equipment at cost, but I still go to pure hockey and get fitted, and you know what, I'd rather pay retail and know I'm getting the right thing, which will kill me, right, because I know what I'm, the skates cost.
Speaker 2:But we, because we are internet based, we don't have that personal touch, right, which I think is missing. But you know, in this day and age to, oh, you know, you, it's very hard to go up a guy against a guy like pure hockey, right, that has 800 stores, right. So I mean it's interesting because we're trying to test something out in at tampa, at the black biscuit headquarters, is making a concierge type of private fitting for goalies with vaughn hockey equipment and graph skates, because that, we feel, is a market that nobody's touching. Right, and you don't, no one's buying a pair of $1,999 pads on the internet, right, right. So the same really should hold true for a lot of this hockey equipment.
Speaker 2:Now, a granted, maybe you go to the store, you get sized and then you order it somewhere else because you have a 10% off coupon. But at the end of the day, I mean I can't stress it enough and I tell this to all the kids you have to make sure the equipment is fitted properly and it has to fit you properly, otherwise it's not protective at all. It doesn't matter what brand it is, I don't care how much you spend on it, I don't really care what it is, but you, you know, and you can even go to a plate against sports and get something used right A shin guard. You know that someone outgrew is will be okay. You know you don't need to invest hundreds or thousands of dollars into equipment until you know number one, you really love it and you're at that level where you need that type of equipment. I mean, I think that's really the misnomer. I mean I don't know what eight or nine-year-old kid needs. A Bauer $299 or $399 tracer stick? I don't get it, but you know yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, Because you know yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, because somebody has it out there. You know it's, it's, it's, it's the factor, so you know. But again it goes back to if it's, you know, 269 grams. A 269 gram stick is a 269 gram stick. It doesn't matter what sticker is on it, it goes down the same three factories one sticker, one sticker, one sticker right. Different graphic, right. So I think that's a lot of what you know I try to instill in the kids. Don't be so caught up on the equipment name or the brand name. Make sure it's comfortable and make sure that you know you feel good and it doesn't hurt.
Speaker 1:Right. I love that because I think you know, at some point I really liked the Supreme skates and I'm a power skates kind of guy. I did have graphs years ago but I kind of switched to power and they felt better for me and I just love the new design, the yellow and black, and I was like I got to get these Supremes and I tried them seven different times and I hated the fit. It just didn't fit my leg. I have a narrow foot, so I had to get the Vapors, fit 1 or whatever, which fits perfectly, and I was like you know, I skate and coach probably six days a week, seven days a week sometimes, and so for me, having a good skate is like, you know, if you're a taxi driver and you're driving you know, you have to bicycle people around.
Speaker 1:You know it makes a big difference if you have the wrong fit, like you said, because you know, you're going to be hurting at the end of the day, correct?
Speaker 2:Correct and I think that that's really the key to it. It doesn't really. I mean you might have your heart set on that brand or that specific line within the brand. You got to just look at it and it's got to be comfortable, right, because the worst thing you want is to come off that ice and have your feet killing you, where you just want to take your skates off, because once you take them off you're not putting them back on Right?
Speaker 1:I had a funny story. We had a kid who comes to practice. He always wore Bauer and all of a sudden he gets the CCM tax with a completely different fit. And so he comes out. He's tripping all over the place, can't skate. And the coach I was with comes out, comes up to the mom and goes you know, that's not his fit, that's not the skate he usually wears. Why did you get those? She like well, they're like a thousand dollars, like top of the line ccms. And he's like well, he's like do you always buy different brand shoes for yourself, right? And she's like yeah, I do. What's the what's the question? He's like that was not a good example, it's true right again, and it's exactly what you said.
Speaker 2:Just because it's quote, unquote, top of the line, doesn't make it a good fit for you, right? I mean, you know, uh, you know, when we're selling in the roller hockey world. You know a lot of guys that I know wear a tour, yep, you know, and they've been around for a long time. They make a great boot. They're a fraction of the price of these other guys and you're not paying into the marketing, right? And again, it really comes down to looking at like in the NHL, right? I mean, sherwood's been around forever, forever, forever. I mean Sherwood's been around forever, forever.
Speaker 2:Nobody wanted their sticks until Bedard decided to sign with them. Now, you can't keep them all in, right, you know, you have the top players using a bow or a stick. Well, that's why you're paying $1,000 for those skates. Me, you're not getting the nhl level skate that any of these guys are skating in right at a thousand dollars, right? So they're all custom molded to their feet, you know, they know exactly what they're doing. Yes, they could have that outer shell, that outer color, but it's. You know, it's nothing like the skate. They're not walking into Bauer headquarters or CCM headquarters and saying I'm going to just take that skate. Thanks, just I'll take it in one and a half Right.
Speaker 1:So I'm out.
Speaker 2:Correct, you know. So it's, yeah, it's an. It's a very interesting concept in terms of, you know, again, it's big dollars, right, I mean it doesn't, you could take it. I mean you could look at it in anybody, right, any brand, multinational brands, I mean, you know, you could look at Rolex, rolex, right, a timex and a casio does the same thing. A rolex does tells time, probably better than the rolex, right, because it's not losing time on a battery until the battery dies.
Speaker 2:So at the end of the day, it, it's the marketing, it's, it's, it's, oh, it's the status, right, you know, and I don't know, I never really bought into that, I didn't really care. Um, you know, if it was comfortable when I was younger, I mean, I have very flat feet, so everything hurts but if it was, if I could keep the skates on for 30 minutes, great that. That, that was the winner for me, right? So at the end of the day, it really didn't matter. And I think that that's what I try to get back to the kids. Like, it doesn't matter what stick you're not going to play better because you're using that stick or that helmet or that glove like, or those wheels like, you know, all those blades like it. It it needs to work for you and if it happens to be that thousand dollars gig, great. But you know oh, great point.
Speaker 1:Thank you, john. I know at the top of the hour, so I usually like to close out the show with a few quickfire questions, so I'll start with the first one, which is what do you think motivates athletes?
Speaker 2:So I think what motivates athletes is, again, loving what they do. I think if you look at the NHL right, these guys love what they do every day. They really do, you know, and, yes, I think money is a motivator, but it's, you know. Then you look at baseball right, and you look at what happened with Juan Soto right, yankees versus Mets 700 and something million. You flip teams. It's not about the money, it's about the camaraderie that these guys make, right. You look at the Capitals that have been together forever. You look at the Islanders that have been together forever right, yes, they're not winning, but these guys have been cohesive. And you look at these teams like Dallas I was watching the game earlier and you got Tyler Sagan, who's been with them since 2013. These guys, they love what they do and they love who they're playing with. So I think that's really what motivates athletes. You've got to love what you do and put 100% of it into what you're doing, and it doesn't matter what sport it is.
Speaker 1:Agreed.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Awesome, yeah, second question here is if you could name three character traits that you notice in successful athletes, what would they be?
Speaker 2:So I think the three traits that I see is, you know, always wanting to give the go, the extra mile right, being coachable, you know, and looking to help the weaker player. I think that's an amazing trait. When I see players do that at a young age, I think that's great, because that that shows them, that me, that they have compassion right, with which I think this world needs a little more, quite honestly. And I I really love when I see that, like you know, when, um and I'm not telling them to say it and they're you know, they say, oh, don't worry, it's okay, you know talking to them on the bench and you know really trying to make them. You know say, oh, don't worry, it's okay, you know talking to them on the bench and you know really trying to make them.
Speaker 1:You know, be better, which I think is great, that's wonderful. And last one is the opposite. Maybe you could talk about three things that you think hold athletes back. What would they be?
Speaker 2:so I think the three things that hold athletes back is the arrogance that I'm the best I can can't be taught. I know everything Right, Somebody that you know and I think this falls into the same category but not coachable. So that would probably be one. The second one would be that they're not passionate about what they're doing right, or they're being forced into it for whatever reason, and then not being, I think, having confidence in themselves, even if they're learning the game, whatever game that is to have the confidence or lack of confidence. I think that's really like oh, I'm never going to be that good, or I'm never going to score a goal, or I'm never going to be able to keep up with that player. I kind of disagree with that, but I think that, yes, you might not be going to the NHL or you might not be playing D1, but have confidence in yourself. Don't sabotage yourself before you've been able to evolve.
Speaker 1:I love that, john. This has been a phenomenal conversation. John, this has been a phenomenal conversation. I'm really excited about the. You know a lot of things we talked about, especially you know committing to your task, and I'm really excited for Black Biscuit and partying with you guys.
Speaker 2:Yes, really great. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too. I mean I'm excited, I like what you guys stand for, I love the character and you know what we talked about before we even started the show. Talking about working with kids, and not necessarily the highest tier one levels, but actually tier two and tier three, and there's learn to plays and and really giving those kids the opportunity to feel like a million bucks, right and yeah, I mean we do that a lot on our social media.
Speaker 2:You know we want these kids to have their 15 minute. You know that 15 seconds of fame, 15 minutes of fame, whatever they're saying is, and you know it's it's. There's only so many tier Like I said to you earlier, there's only so many tier one athletes Right, there's only so many in the world of the Ovechkins, the, the Matthews, the Bedards, the Celebrinis, there's a lot more Tier 2 and a boatload more Tier 3 that are super talented. So you know, we love those types of programs because those are the programs. When we outfit them, we see the smiles on their faces. We love that they have some input in the designs and we love them. We see them for the first time putting the uniform on. They're like wow, like you could see that they're glowing. They're like we feel like a million bucks and we look like a million bucks. And that's just the best part about owning a company that is not super big.
Speaker 2:I own it. You can get me on the phone. When you get my email, it's my cell phone number. You need me on a Saturday. You can call us. I don't sit behind a big desk with 17 people in front of me. So those are the type of things that makes it a family. Like once you buy from black biscuit, we, you're part of the family. So the more stuff you send us, the more we put you on social media, and all these kids now with social media love to see them up there.
Speaker 1:You know, and so you know we love it, we love it, love it wonderful and, for those of you guys listening, if you want to check out black biscuit, you can go to wwwblack-biscuitcom. That's wwwblack-biscuitcom. C-u-l-t, dot, c-o-m or dot com. Well, john, thank you again for taking the time. I know it's quite late, but I really appreciate it. It was a phenomenal conversation. I hope that everybody who is listening learned something new today and can take it away with them, and I look forward to supporting some Black Biscuit.
Speaker 2:Yes, at the Lobster Cup. And, yeah, bring home some hardware for us, post it on social, and I look forward to supporting some black biscuit. Yes, yeah, bring home some hardware for us, post it on social. Send it to Tom. We'll do our best, we'll love it.
Speaker 1:We'll love it thank you so much thank you, thank you everybody for listening and have a wonderful evening, thank you.