How Parents Can Survive Travel Sports Without Losing Themselves

Travel sports can turn a family calendar into a battlefield. Between practices, tournaments, money, school, and the emotions that come with watching your kid compete, it’s easy to feel like you’re failing at everything at once. We sit down with Dr. Lena Fagan, a psychologist, family therapist, and author, to talk honestly about what youth sports parenting looks like in real life and what actually helps.

We get into the hidden workload on parents, why the right club structure matters, and how to support consistency without creating burnout. Dr. Fagan shares what she sees in her private practice with young athletes and their families, including the risk of kids building a single identity around being “the athlete,” and the mental health fallout when a dream ends through injury, performance limits, or simple loss of interest. We also talk about the transition many athletes face later, when the sport ends and meaning, money skills, and career direction suddenly matter.

The most practical takeaway is emotional regulation. We unpack the difference between reacting and responding, how nonverbal disappointment can crush confidence, and why consequences teach better than punishment. You’ll also hear simple tools for raising independent kids, including “affordable mistakes,” open-ended questions that build judgment, and a clean allowance framework that teaches giving, saving, and spending.

If you care about resilience, adaptability, athlete mental health, and better communication at home, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a sports parent who needs it, and leave a review so more families can find the show.

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Transcript

Welcome And Sponsor Thanks

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Podolski Method Podcast. I'm excited to have everybody back for another episode. I'm your creator host, Coach Oya Podalski, level 5 USA Hockey Master Coach, creator host of the Podalski Method Podcast, owner and operator of Sharpscape New York, USA Hockey Coach, developer, and a CPA by trade. And I before we get into the show, I'd just like to remind you about some of our sponsors, Print Only With Us, full printing shop in New York City. Check them out. WarGate Hockey, where you can get 10% off with the code 10 P-O-D-O-L-S-K-I. And they provide protection for your teeth for all those hockey players. How is hockey where you can get your tape and a bunch of other hockey equipment and stuff with 10% off with P-O-D-O-L-S-K-IY10? Of course, don't forget to check out the uh New York Rangers Junior Rangers programming. I'm one of the lead instructors for the Junior Rangers. We have phenomenal programs with over 50 rings and over 90 coaches on staff. Check out NHL.com slash Rangers slash community slash youth dash hockey. And it's a great place to start for under 300 bucks. You get 10 lessons in full gear, head to toe. So definitely give them a look. And finally, I am a part of a wonderful nonprofit organization where I serve as a board member for Sagaceous Mind, uh, working with kids with and without disabilities to help them um uh through sports become more ingrained in culture. And so with no further ado, I'd like to introduce uh Dr. Lena Fagan. She's been on the show a couple of times. She happens to be my cousin, and uh she's a doctor of psychotherapy science, psychologist, family therapist, uh clinical psychology, author, speaker. I mean, I know I could go on and on with all your accolades. I know you've done a thousand things over your lifetime, but maybe uh if you want to take over and just tell people what you've been up to for the last couple of years.

SPEAKER_08 4:14

So, hi everybody. Um as you know, Ilya said, Doctor of Psychotherapy Science. I have been um working tirelessly within the realm in private practice, but also has been um working on my um second book um in in parenting in uh English. It's gonna be out soon, and um, it's sort of an expanded version of the book that came out in 2021, because as I've started to translate it and revise it, because this was published with the largest publisher in Russia and um that came to me and asked me to do it because of all the work that I did in um speaking and uh and on TV. And um, so now that I started to translate it, I said, okay, oh my God, in the five years, a lot has happened. I learned a lot, I've worked with families so much. I have to expand it. So second edition one that's gonna come out in English is gonna be a bigger, uh better version of the first book. Um, and that's gonna happen this year. Uh and um aside from that, I uh just been um working in private practice a lot with families. And uh aside from that, I never I worked with uh athletes and I worked with children athletes and their families and parents, but um I never thought that I'd be a mom of an athlete. You know, I'm not much into sports myself and just learned how to ride a bicycle last year, but um but that's um and all of a sudden I have my uh nine and a half-year-old who plays for Monaco International, Monaco water poly team for the national team, and um find myself to go to competitions and to um go to the World Junior Championship in Italy and uh do this and that. And uh five times a week we go for trainings, and so you you to new skill where you cooperate with other parents to bring your kids and to organize for them to be at uh trainings aside from school and to manage all the schoolwork and all the other activities that he does. And so that has been uh an interesting experience. You've been doing this, it is his uh third year doing it, and um, and so this was like a first-hand experience outside of the realm of work where you work with families.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Yeah, no, uh you know, travel sports and and youth sports has become so taxing, so so so much work on the parents, not just the kids, right? The travel and the the commitment that it takes. How have you had to adjust your lifestyle to fit that?

Becoming A Parent Of An Athlete

SPEAKER_08 6:51

So I think I was lucky uh because um one of those lucky parents because I get to build my own schedule because I work in private practice. So aside from um group work and um a little bit of an institutional work that I do, I um pretty much drive my own schedule. So for me, it hasn't really been a challenge because I allocate, still allocate like those same, you know, 30 hours a week to my patient work, 10 hours a week to my writing, you know, a few, you know, hours here and there to participate in conferences and and and then you manage like this week. I'm flying to Paris on Thursday, coming back on Saturday for a day conference where I'm invited to speak and to work with um entrepreneurs and in and help for them to start a business and to manage a family and to manage their kids is uh is a big question. How do you manage a life, uh family life and professional life? And it's like a women-oriented uh conference, but um, you know, but I make sure that I have another parent drive my kid to practice. I have a helper who's gonna you know pick them up and take them from school and stay with them. I mean, she's a living, but um, so that makes it a little bit easier. But that's um, but that's like managing a business. I always um say that managing a family is uh like a managing a business. And um a lot of times when uh someone says, Oh, you're a stay-at-home parent, implying, well, you don't do anything important. It's um really a big full-time job that you do, aside from a full-time job that you have as a as your work. And so that's um that's always um, you know, I mean, obviously you love what you do because you love your family, but um, but it's like having two full-time jobs, really, two two just um logistics-wise and uh management-wise.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah, and and you know, that kind of falls into that next question I have is when you become so kind of committed or ingrained into this youth sports culture, and and we can we'll talk a little bit about you know, you've seen differences across the world, but when you become so ingrained in this culture and the demand it has, obviously, on traveling and you work, and a lot of parents, you know, experience a lot of agitation and difficulty with that adjustment. Um, and there's a lot of hard, you know, what we call blue-collar working families who are just you know middle class, hardworking families that want to provide opportunities for their kids, and it becomes and very difficult, right? And you, you know, sometimes your kids don't get as many private lessons or as many training opportunities as some other kids. So have you worked with parents in that capacity and helping them manage it and help you know if you have a couple of tips to that they can use.

The Real Cost Of Travel Sports

SPEAKER_08 9:49

So I have. I uh work with a lot of parents that are parents to athletes. Uh, one of the things that I've noticed across the board, and there's gonna be a few that I'm gonna share, um, one is is that when you when your child is still young and they're you know five, six, seven years old, being just starting, it's um it's important to sort of see and to have the dedication, not to miss the the basic minimum of the sports trainings. Sport in general helps build character. You could see if you have boys, you could see how they're turning from kids to boys, and um, especially if we're talking about group sport, because it's different for tennis players, because I also work with some tennis players, and it's individual sport, and there's a lot more investment in terms of parent on the parents' account to drive them to trainings, to have those private lessons in, to have uh uh to have the competitions in and participation, and a lot of it falls onto parents when it's um uh group sport like hockey, like basketball, like uh water polo, swim team uh as a team, so it also can be a team sport, then then you have this engagement with the club that the child belongs to. And a lot of the times when uh children go for competitions, they're being driven by the sports club. So it's important to first to check what sports club your child is going to go to and what services do they provide, because that will determine how much of your commitment um is going to be on you as a parent rather than on the club and what they can provide. And um and that's you know, ours, because you don't have to be at every game and you don't have to be at every competition as a parent, as long as you support the child and their initiative and say, hey, I wish I could be there, but mom, mom or dad have to work and we'll come there. And I saw that um in last year when uh the national Monco team played for Waterpolo World Junior Championship, that some parents went for the whole week and we've attended games and um I worked around the hours when the child children played. And some parents just came in for the last two days for the semifinals and finals and supported their kids. And some didn't come at all because they couldn't take the week off for the competition. So but the kids were driven there by bus, brought back there by by the club's bus, and were attended to during and had an opportunity to call their parents and communicate, and the coach would send uh you know results and pictures and everything. So you could still feel that you're involved, even if you can't be present at everything. So that's one. When the child starts, you kind of see that transformation. And then you want to support your child in terms of their dedication, even if they're not going to be a professional athlete. You don't want them to feel like they can um miss trainings just because they don't want to go, because that's that sort of builds, that's the part that builds character of uh being part of something, being contributing to something, taking responsibility not only for yourself, but for the team as a collective responsibility for the success. And I could see that that sometimes kids don't even play play a particular game, but they still feel very accomplished when the team wins because they feel that they're part of something bigger than just them. And so that's an important thing for them to learn. Of course, it comes down for parents, it comes down to money and time. So it's um it's a good thing to come and meet other parents that um in the same sport, in the same club, and to know other parents because then you can coordinate uh between the parents, like who's gonna drive the kids today, and if you are live in the same neighborhood or nearby, it's easy to organize. And so it becomes this uh management of um parents. Essentially, you could become friends with these other parents because you're gonna spend so much time together planning and uh working your schedules around the kids, but it also helps and makes it a little easier. I find that the if the parents are not uh dedicated or contributing to a child's sport, a child will give up. Uh, of course, there is these early years when they just start uh their um their sports career, and then there are boarding schools also, like an option to where children could get scholarships on um on you know on uh their sports. And I know that in hockey in particular, I have a few hockey players who are in their teen years, like 13, 14, 15, and um they have an agent and different agents, different kids, different families, and they uh they go to boarding school that supports and accommodates the schedule for the trainings. And so they have enough hockey practices um during the week to make sure that they play all the important games so that their agent is actively involved in as well to manage. And um they they want to play for the NHL, and so they um you know they're kind of looking at like which colleges, which scholarships they could get. And obviously it's a few years uh ahead of themselves, but still you start to plan uh in advance, from what I see in the industry. And that's um, and that's also like a shared responsibility. Yes, you're probably we might not be ready for a child to go to boarding school, but if you don't have the capacity as a working parent to bring them to every practice and to make sure that they go to the school that accommodates that practice schedule, then then it might be an option. Of course, I also see that other side of it. You know, three, four years old. By the time they're 14, um, they don't even see uh an alternative to playing hockey. They only see themselves as a professional, a professional athlete. And then the work as a psychologist, as a therapist, the work that I do is to sort of see them that the world can be bigger than just playing sports, and for the family to also explore other opportunities, academic opportunities in that realm. Because um, what if a child doesn't become a professional athlete? Then that becomes a you know very traumatic experience. And um, and sometimes you get hurt, right? You get trauma. You fall, and God forbid, you get traumatized and you can't play anymore, or you can't get into NHL because of the trauma that you had. And so, and then what do you do during recovery process? Like I had an athlete who who did have uh an accident and then couldn't play anymore, and the parents didn't have the heart to tell him that he was 16, and his whole plan for the sports career was out the window because he just wouldn't be able to play anymore at the level that uh would be required. So those are all big questions that I work with, and uh there's not a single solution to this. As if, you know, here's the solution, go do it, and then it works. Each situation is a little bit unique, a little bit different, but if you take all of these aspects into consideration, it becomes a little bit easier to manage as a parent.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

All right, no, I appreciate you, and you just shared so many things. I was just taking some notes as you were talking, because there's so many intricacy to the things you say. Like, I you know, I've gone through it personally, as you know, like when I was doing my black belt uh and getting that, I was by myself. I had no family in the stands, and there was a ton of parents kind of sitting around supporting their kids. I didn't uh you know, my mom saw me skate for the first time. I was in my 20s when she saw me play hockey. Um, and so it you know, it's it but I do have a lot of friends who grew up that way, and uh, you know, one of the friends who's who's a professional athlete, um, I'm sure you know who I'm talking about, but he's uh he didn't have much support, it was actually the opposite. People are saying, get a real job, this is not a career, and then he actually became a pro and makes a living off of it, which is wonderful. So sometimes it's kind of as you said, it's unique and and those situations do happen, but I think more often than not, you're right. I I talk to my boys all the time, and I say, Look, I was a college wrestler, I wrestled and I had a wonderful time. I got to pick my classes first, so I always made my own schedule. I got to, you know, have a ton of friends in school, I felt included. I had a student government job, like I was really a part of college culture, and I said it doesn't matter if you play club um hockey as an example, or club team for whatever sport you're doing versus division one, you can still have a wonderful experience while getting a career. But it is a career is extremely important. Even athletes who become professional retire at the age of 36, 37, 30 year if their career is like long. Some of them, as you said, get injured and they're done early. But if your career goes to the end, to the max, you're like 38 years old. You're done. And what do you do next? You know, if you all you know is playing hockey.

SPEAKER_08 19:17

And and so that's another side of it, because it because you know, I work with children, but I also work with adults and you know, work with families and couples and a lot, you know, the adult athletes who are at the end of their career, who, as you said, in the end of their 30s, early 40s, they're very young. And um, some of them made a decent amount of money to last them for, you know, probably not for their whole lifespan, but for a while. And um, but they don't know what to do with the money. Like they don't know how to properly invest it, how to start businesses. And a lot of the time we see that they lose the capital that they've created because of that lack of knowledge. And so it's uh extremely important to acquire additional skills while you're um doing while you're building your professional athletic career, because of that fact that one day you'll need to understand and do something. And relying on uh someone to help you with that, to manage that, is not without actually understanding what's underneath it is um could potentially be a problem.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah, I and I think that that's a scary thought, right? Because that's really where you kind of I would I don't say midlife crisis, but it's really where your thoughts kind of mature, transition, right? About that age. I know I've I've gone through some things over the past few years that I've never experienced before in my head, and you know, learn to do, you know, and and doing things to to learn to deal with them. But I feel that if you are a professional athlete, then all of a sudden you just have to completely change careers basically, and yeah, that throws you for a loop, just you know, emotionally, physically, mentally, like everything is changing. And so kind of I guess speaking a little bit about change, you know, because and and we could talk a little bit about athletes, uh, you know, at the beginning of their career versus later. And if you're changing, let's say an organization and you go into a new place to compete, or you know, you're moving because you bought a house somewhere else, and so you know, changes happen all the time, right? And the pressure of change in a child setting can be a profound effect on the athlete, on the kids and the athletes, right? So, what do you usually recommend and you know to parents and coaches that work with kids who just transition and things like that? How can B be an asset to the to the kids and to the athletes that we work with?

Commitment Without Burnout

SPEAKER_08 21:50

So I find that um in both children and adults, and in children they're just acquiring and learning these skills, and in adults they hopefully already acquired it. And if they didn't, they should, is adaptability and um and creative adaptability, right? Um, we uh as we grow and as we progress with our life, uh we learn certain things and um skills, and then at some point we can't do certain things or or can't perform as we did before. And we get better and sometimes we not when we don't get better and um at at what we do. And so it's a it's a really good skill to find these other abilities that you possess to transform and transition and not to focus on just one thing. And I understand it's very difficult for athletes to just do one thing and then when it's uh over, there's like a big black hole out there. Like, what do I do? Because I've never asked myself a question on what interests me outside of the realm of playing sports. And um, so if there is um, I see it's not part of my profession to give advice, it's usually to figure it out, let's figure it out together, but it's your decision. But um, but if I could give an advice, I would say, yes, laser focus on the sport that you're playing is extremely important, but keeping your interests and curiosity about life in other uh parts of it is also very, very important because that's what's going to keep you going a lot of the times, and it just happened with athletes. You know, I work with a lot of um parents that um a lot of mothers more than fathers, uh just by the nature of it, that stopped working when that had professional careers, stopped working because they had kids, stayed at home, maybe had more than one kid, maybe had an opportunity not to work. Before you know it, 10 years pass by. Your kid no longer needs you as much as they did before. And um, all of a sudden you find yourself, even if you are in a loving marriage, nothing is happening there, you find yourself with this time on your hands and nothing to do. And um, and it's touch avoid because you start to ask yourself a question, who am I? Because you've just invested 10 years of your life into children and family, forgetting what is it that you wanted and what you needed, and where is your self-development in all of that? And so slowly but surely we start finding these things. It's the same thing across the board with athletes. You have this ravishing career, or not so ravishing, but a career nonetheless, you make money with it, then all of a sudden it's over because the next generation is up, or because you got injured, or whatever the reason may be, or you don't want to do it anymore, for example. That happens too. And um, you don't know what to do with yourself. And unless you had acquired a little bit of these other skills of education, of these other interests, you will have a hard time exploring into different directions. And when we talk about children and parents that are laser focused, for example, they would say, My kid is going to be a tennis player, and so we're gonna invest, and he's gonna have all these trainings, and then he's gonna play all these tournaments. But the child, for example, as they grow up, they're just not that great. You know, not everybody is going to win Wimbledon or whatever the uh tournament is. And um, and what do you do then? Because all the time that you have invested, you haven't diversified. So that's where it becomes a little tricky because for a parent, on one hand, you have to support and you have to, uh, especially if a child is into it and you you go and you send them for all these competitions and everything, but you also kind of do a reality check every now and then and say, hey, is he really the top, top player? Is is it really something that that he would or she would want to do moving forward? And um, and then that would depend. And if I see that there is doubt, for example, if I see that there is they're just not great, that happens. Then you know, then you support. Yes, it's not a it's not enough of a reason to just quit, but you support, but then you also diversify as much as you can so that it's not the only thing that that that's happening. I mean, I know athletes that that started out in swimming, for example. At some point, if you're a competitive swimmer, you're not tall enough, you're not gonna be as fast as other kids. And kids, first of all, kids grow at different rate. And second of all, some people are just naturally taller than others. So then by the time you hit your teenage years, you have this choice of whether staying in competitive swimming and be a mediocre swimmer, not selected for competitions, or aside from swimming, stay in swimming but more recreationally and pick out something else, what else you're good at to be um to also practice and to also be involved in. And so that's that's where parenting becomes crucial, to comfort in that sense that, hey, probably it's not happening for you, right? And um, and to support, not to tell, of course, that hey, you're not really not good at it. Stop it, don't do it anymore. Obviously, but support, support, you know, say you know you want to do it. I understand you we've invested so many years into it. Yes, of course, you'll continue, but maybe let's do something else. Maybe we'll do something together. Maybe you're great at writing, maybe you're great at some other sport. It doesn't have to be sport, you know, either. It could be something else. And kids are so wonderful and they are so full of these different interests and these different curiosities that we only have to direct them a little bit and they'll find their way. For adults, it's a little bit more complicated because if you've invested your whole life into it, then uh it's um it's harder to find these other things that you can be good at. But again, if you invest a little bit of your time here and there into acquiring new skills, into learning new things, then that's what's going to be your baseline to start when the sport is no longer there. And I know that a lot of uh, and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but I know that a lot of professional athletes, once they're done with their professional career, they do turn to coaching and to working with teams and working with professional athletes.

Life Beyond The Athlete Identity

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Yeah, absolutely. And and look, look at me. Like I've I'm a CPA, I was accounted by trade, and you know, hockey was a secondary sport. It wasn't even my sport that I was always doing martial arts and and wrestling and judo and muay thai and UFC and all those crazy nonsense, uh, you know, fighting, you know, things, and and then all of a sudden, you know, I decided you know, got into I I always loved hockey, but I got an opportunity to train for like two years with a friend of mine where you know every morning I would show up and six in the morning before work, practice for an hour and a half, shower, and go to work in suit. And I did that for two years before I even started coaching. And then I said, you know, I want to try it, and I loved it, and that you know, 10 years later I'm still doing it. But I didn't just stop at coaching. I continued to, you know, I got I got with the junior rangers, learned, you know, psychology of young children, how to engage with little kids, how to engage as a family. Uh, and as a matter of fact, I was on uh Midlin uh Money Mindset podcast recently, uh, which where I talked a little bit about how uh I think that that you know it's a family experience. You know, a lot of coaches kind of just want to focus on the athlete, and oh, the the parents are just in the way, they just you know they make it worse. Let's get them out because they don't know what they're talking about. And I said, no, because the parents are dedicating their time, their money, their energy, like blood, sweat, and tears, just like you, or just like the athlete is. They're worried more than the athletes. I had one of the uh brother um on my spring team, and he helped coach. Um and so he was actually on one of the shows as well. He plays Division I college. He jumped on the bench to help me coach a few years ago um in a spring tournament. And so we get to the you know, we're down by two goals, it's 4-2, they're winning. Uh, three minutes left, we pull the goalie, score two goals, tie the game, and win in a shootout. We get off the bench and he goes to me, I am never doing this again. He's like, I played division one hockey and my I've never sweat as much as I just did on that bench with my little brother. He's like, This is insane. Like, I don't know why you do this. And so, you know, that right away quick for me, like you know, the experience that the parents have and the coaches go through is sometimes even bigger than the athlete because as an athlete, at least you control what you're doing out there, whether you're basketball, you can do something. We can't do anything, you're just kind of like you know, sitting there with blood boiling, but you know, you're not gonna jump on the ice and push everybody around, and so you know, I just thought it was such a revelation to me in that moment when he said that. I said, you know, like now you know how it feels, you know. But you have these moments where, you know, to bring it back to what you were talking about, I think uh a lot about uh depression at middle age, because it it's become very prevalent, especially in the US, and then you know, I'm sure across the world, but it's become worse. And I feel that you what you touched on that people don't find their purpose, they kind of find a thing they and they keep doing it, and then when they get to 40, you know, in the mid 40s, late 30s, or maybe early 50s, they're like, um, I actually, you know, that's not what I was meant for. Like, it doesn't feel right. Like, I'm just going through the motions every day, and the time keeps going by, but I'm just I'm not enjoying what I can do. And so, you know, I'm sure you had clients in that space, and so I know you talked we talked a little bit about it from from a sports perspective, right? And how that transition, but athletes have that, right? Like when you've been playing sport the whole time, and then you're like, hey, I I only played it because my parents wanted, and I was good at it. I was really good at basketball, so I became a pro basketball player, but I never really liked it. You know? So have you seen that? How often does that happen?

Adaptability And Diversifying Interests

SPEAKER_08 32:56

That happens. I I wanted to uh can I first just make a little comment about it being sport being a family experience? Because um that's uh extremely important to understand. Like if one parent is into it and the other one is not, the child is not gonna play. And that's um it's um very important to understand as a family, especially um uh if the parents are not together. Uh, it becomes an issue when there is divorce. Divorce is always trauma for even if it's an amicable divorce, everybody's happy, everybody wanted to get out, and um there's no fights, there is no you know, but battles, but um, it's always trauma for a child. And uh it's extremely important for both parents to be on board with the sport that the child is playing. And if the family is together and everybody loves each other and everything is seemingly good, then um, and that is a family experience. Also, I think a lot of the time it's um yeah, because I deal with it as a psychologist in the family therapy realm, but um, I'm sure you as a coach also deal with it that a lot of parents are misregulated and they have aggression issues, and uh and they would uh, and that's when the coach would go, Oh my god, can you take these parents away? But um, you know, because they just yell and uh you know, hopefully not directly uh words, but uh some do. And because they are so overwhelmed and they don't know how to control themselves. So a lot of it is work with parents on what is support for a child athlete and what is not support, where a child would be ashamed of having the parents in the stances, full side or court side or whatever, and or when they're happy when their parents are there, when they would be searching the tribunes to see that the parents are there, and what are the most important games? And that's and that a very intimate communication, I would say, between the child, the parents, and the coach that who's um because psychologists are not always there. You know, some families that come, they know because I work with them, but uh some rely on the coach, and the coach has to uh sort of translate that and to explain it to parents that what's appropriate, what's not appropriate, and what's um expected, and how they can better support their child, because you have a different relationship with the children. That's some sort of my five cents on that. In terms of depression and um and not finding your meaning, I find that in existential analysis, we have these uh four fundamental motivations, and that's about meaning of life, essentially, existential analysis in general, as one of the modalities that I'm uh very fond of and um working with um and studying with uh Professor Alfred Longley, who um created existential analysis uh together with Viktor Frankel. If these names mean anything, if they don't mean anything, will come up. They're uh very famous. You could read their books, especially Frankel's book, and um it's all about meaning, and it's um about meaning for children, for adults, for anybody, and uh how to lead a meaningful life. And so the four pillars, the four fundamental motivations within uh the existential analysis. The first one is a question of can I be? Is it do I have an internal yes to the life, to the surrounding, to my circumstances? How do I deal with my circumstances? How do I live where I live? Uh, can I be, right? Is it safe for me to live in this environment? Uh, do I accept the sort of the rules of the society that I live in? It's about the world out there. And um, and if we accept the world out there and say, okay, I live in uh the United States as you do. This is this is my government. I may agree with it, I may not agree with it. I know how to navigate this. This is can I be? I can be here now in this circumstance. I know what to do with that. And the second one is um, can I be me? Uh is um, you know, it's what I do. Can I can I be me? Right? And um, and the because the third one is um um and where my boundaries are and what do I want, and can I can I be me, or do I have to pretend that I like sports, but in reality it's my parents and I want something else. And um, so can I be me is the second big question. And the third one is can I be my authentic self? Because uh authenticity is often overlooked, and we sort of go through the motion and uh live our life and uh go to those trainings, but uh without feeling authentic, without feeling true to what we do. And then of course the fourth one is does it make sense? Does it have meaning what I do? And uh finding that meaning. And this these are like if you imagine a table, these are like four legs of the table. So if we kind of go one after another, but if any one of these four is uh not there or is broken, the table is not gonna hold. It's not gonna stand. Like it probably can stand for a while on three legs, but after a while it's gonna fall and uh tip over. And so so it's important to sort of ask yourself these questions. And um could probably share after the podcast, uh, maybe like a download. I don't know if you do this kind of thing and uh with uh the those that listen to this, but um like a little workbook or something or like a worksheet. I usually share them on uh my site and stuff. But um, but it's important, it's important to ask yourself about the meaning of things that you do. You know, I say um there's this thing about freedom, and freedom in the sense that there is um a stimulus and then an impulse, our reaction, right? And um something triggered us, we reacted. There's this time between the stimulus and reaction that allows that freedom of making a decision of how you want to react. Uh, for example, right? Because now I just said something extremely philosophical, and uh and everybody's like, what is she talking about? But uh but here's an example you putting your kids to sleep and you're very tired, and they are and they are overly excited because they had so many things during the day, and so they they are refusing to go to sleep, and so all of a sudden it triggers you because you just want to be done with it and like go to bed. And so, what's the the impulse is there? And so the next thing you know, you're yelling at your children saying, God, it's sleep, yeah, it's late. But you have you have the freedom to stop yourself for a second and say, it's not about my children, they're also misregulated because their their nervous system is overly excited because of the day that they had, and um, and and so I could yell at them and contribute to their um dysregulation, or I could step away for a moment, take a deep breath in, or not such a deep, but a breath in, take a pause, and understand that I'm gonna yell at them because I am tired. It's not about them, it's about me. Where am I in this process? And then I can come back to them and uh and calm down and come back to them and say, you know, physically step away from them and say, I need a moment, step away and come back in two minutes and say, Hey guys, you know, I am also tired. I understand how tired you guys are. Then you start a process of cooperation. And and that happens in um in everything, that happens all the time. Uh, and um with all of the decisions that we make, right? Because we get triggered and we could react or we could respond. And the reaction is automatic. And if you take that freedom to make a decision, then you respond. And if your response is to yell at your children, then that's so your response. But that's a conscious decision that you're making, it's no longer a reaction, it's a response. And that's um, and that's very, very important. I find that extremely important that when you think to take those pauses to think about it and to teach your kids not to respond, not to react, but to respond to things. It helps with bullying, it helps with um, you know, my what's the meaning of this? Am I giving the satisfaction to someone who's trying to push me, or am I standing my ground with my boundaries? And that's um, and that makes it um, that allows for a more meaningful life. Yes, uh, as uh we because there's a lot of things that trigger us through the lot throughout our life. And uh yeah, obviously life is complicated, and uh there's so much that's happening in the world now that um that makes it more difficult to navigate and uh you know with the politics and the economies and um and everything else. But um, but if we say, can I be, and I do I accept this reality that I'm in, and uh and if not, you can always move somewhere, or you could uh do something about changing your reality, or uh think how how you could deal with how am I going to be with where I live? If you can't move or you you you know you can't do anything. So how am I going to be here? And then and then am I here? Is it uh, you know, am I can I be me? Can I do this? And that uh that allows uh that opens up a door for conversations with your spouse, with your friends, with uh whoever you want to engage with. That uh do I feel like I'm being authentic here or not?

SPEAKER_01 42:53

I love what you said so much because I think yeah, I I have been coaching for 10 years, and I obviously have three boys and and a you know one family, but I struggle with that myself all the time, you know. And I when you respond versus react, like you know, you said, and I love that verbiage. Um, I think that that makes me feel a lot more confident in my decisions as well. So instead of me just like reacting and then kind of being, oh man, I really could have done that better or different, and then you second guess yourself. If I am responding, I am confident that I made the choice I wanted to make. And so that makes me carry myself very differently. I was actually recently in a situation where you know I was asked to do something I wasn't agreeing with. Um, and you know, I kind of stepped away. I didn't really uh accept it or react to it. Uh, you know, I told them that I wasn't happy about it. Uh, but I just took myself out of the equation, took a couple of days, got some wheels in motion, and started thinking about other things, and then I had a Kind of coherent response to that situation without you know all the tantrum or like you know acting like a five-year-old child, you know what I mean? As they say, you know, but but yeah, I I think that's so great, that is so important. Um I I find and probably because of my childhood drama, um, that you know, that we get frustrated mostly when you have to repeat yourself over and over again. Something once, twice, three times, four times, you're being ignored, and now your response is to escalate to yelling. Um, you know, I never hit my kids, and you know, my wife, we don't believe in that. And and you know, most people I know don't, as far as I know. Uh, but but you escalate in the way, you know, your demeanor, you're yelling, you know. Um, even a lot of times I catch myself or Jay would catch me uh in a situation where uh I'm watching the boys from the sideline and they are not you know performing as well as they usually do. Like they're just not doing what what I would have seen them do. So I've seen them here now they're here for some reason. And my face changes. Like I I'm visibly frustrated. Like I'm not playing, I'm not a part of this equation. I have no idea what's happening on the bench, I'm not coaching, but I'm just seeing this, and I'm like, you know, like you know, and then if the kid sees you do that, what effect does that have on them? Like just looking it up into the bleachers, okay, it's your dad. And if I'm on the bench and they see me do that face on the bench as their coach and their father at the same time. So now I'm taking up two roles in that moment. What does that do to them? And they are psychic.

Meaning And The Four Motivations

SPEAKER_08 45:45

Well, I I mean, kids would hate to disappoint their parents uh up until a certain age, and they um all they want to do is to make their parents happy, more than think of what they want. And they would gladly, even those that visibly sort of headstrong and kind of fight you and everything, up until they turn 12, really. They would rather do everything possible to make their parents happy. And so that's um that's one thing to keep in mind as a parent, because that's important. Because sometimes you tell them, oh, I so would love for you to do this. And even though they don't want to, they would still do it because you would so love them to do this, and they so want to please you at that moment, only for daddy or mommy to love them. That's one thing. Um the other thing is that of course, uh, kids as well as adults, we read our non-verbal communication as well as uh you know verbal cues. And that's um, but that's something that to work with yourself, you know, for you to work with yourself to not have the look of disappointment on your face. Of course, if you talk to them afterwards and explain what's been going on, then sometimes, you know, to take me the wrong way. Sometimes I'm um overly tired or I haven't slept well or whatever. And in the end of the night, I'm also could be a little loud and tell my kids in more direct on, you know, go to bed. But then it's what you do after that happened, you know, always come back and say, hey, I'm sorry I yelled or raised my voice. Um, I it's not on you, it's on me because I didn't handle this situation well, because I was tired and it has nothing to do with you. And so, and so it's a question of do you talk to them about your expectations that it has nothing to do with them per se, that you think the world on them still. It's a it's a thing about being good or bad. So when when we were little, uh, we were told, oh, you're such a good boy, I hate those verbiage, uh, or you're such a good girl, and then and then something happened, and all of a sudden you're this bad boy or a bad girl. When what needs to happen in the narrative, the way the parents talk to their children, if they don't already, is you tell them this is a good thing you did, or this is not a good thing you did. And that that allows for room that you're not bad as a whole, you know, as a person. You know, a person is a combination of good and bad actions or things, situations that happen to them. And so if a bad situation happened, you could do something differently, and then you have the opportunity to discuss what could have been done differently for the situation to play out differently. And if something good happens, you always praise the good, you know, make more emphasis on the good, less emphasis on the bad, so that the intention is to do the good things more than to do the bad things. But um, but that's you know, but that's how you just create that air between I'm not, it's not, I am not bad. The situation was shitty. I'm sorry, can I say that on air? Okay. But uh, but we know we could discuss and how to fix it or how it could have been played out differently. And that teaches a lesson. Because when you yell, it doesn't teach any lesson. Yeah, it teaches them to hide better, to lie better, and to play dead, you know, as a reaction, maybe it will pass over and then life will be back to normal. But um, but when you discuss things, when you talk to them and say, hey, I know you saw my look of disappointment when I was in stances, and I saw you look at me, and I know it might have felt, you know, not so great. How did it feel? And they would tell you, and then you tell them, well, why do you think that happened? And then they would tell you something. I don't know. And then say, well, it's not because of you, it's because of me, because I have such huge expectations of you. And uh, and I show it as a parent because I know you're destined for greatness, and I know you guys saw you do it better last time you played. Maybe something is happening with you. And then they may say something, you know, I didn't feel well or my stomach hurt or whatever, or they may not, and then you tell them, well, if you ever want to share that something is going on in your life, then you know, I'm here to listen, not judge, not in punish or whatever, but just to be here for you. Open the door. The more you open that door, the more likely they will walk through it. It's a study that's been done by, I think MIT, I might be wrong, so don't quote me on that, that um tested children. And um, and so child, until they reach the age of 12, if there's a crowd of people and everybody talks at the same time, they can recognize their mother's voice. After they turn 12, they can't. It's just a chatter of voices. Nature has intended it this way so they would become adult and separate from their parents. So we have, as parents, we have about, you know, until they become preteen at nine, maybe have a couple more years in when they hear the narrative that you have to tell them. After that, it's their own game. They will pick the voices that they will hear. And whether it's going to be their coach, their friends, or someone off of the internet, it's just you won't be able to control it as much. You won't be able to control it at all. And they will resist a lot more. So it's very, very important to start early on with these things so that they don't just interpret them on their own, but there is this open door to have a dialogue, this open door to say, hey, what's wrong? What's going on? Maybe I don't know something, but um, I'm not here to give advice. I'm here to listen to you. And um, and sometimes they would come and say, Hey, you know, it was such a bad day at school because this happened and that happened. And you don't need to solve every problem they have. You need to let them be able to solve it. But you can ask prompt questions, like open-ended questions, like, what would you have done differently if you had the opportunity to redo this? And then they may, you know, give you something. And then you could say, you know, when I and then it's always good to also share some of your experiences with them. As in, you know, when I was a kid, this happened to me, and this is how I've handled it. Maybe it wasn't the best way, but you know, this is what I would have done differently, and so that they so that they can project onto themselves a little bit, and that's um, and that works so much better than you should do this and that because I'm telling you, because I'm your parent and I know better. I um and it happens like in the most little things. Like I was in um, you know, aside from like patients, I was with my kids in arcades this morning. Yeah, they come into this place where there's a whole bunch of different uh arcades that they could play. You buy a card, it has points on it, you put money on, it has points, they go play. So my younger one, who's five, he wants to play these games where you go and you grab something out of the thing, and and it never works. And he gets and he picks the ones that have candy because we don't have a lot of candy at home, of course. And uh you know sugar. So I tell him, I'm telling baby, don't play that game because you're probably not gonna get any candy, because that's just how these things work. And if you do, you'll get like two candy, and you're gonna spend like two euros on these two candy, and we could get a whole bag for two euros of these candy that's in that machine. And he was walking around and said, I don't want to play any other game. And his older brother, you know, drove a car, rode a motorcycle, went to see the 3D show with his points. And he was kind of saying, I don't want to spend on this, and I don't want to spend on this, I want to waste my points on this. I said, Okay, you go do it. So he played it three times. He didn't get a single candy, then he went to a different one. He got two candies out of it, and you know, just wasted 10 euros on two little, you know, lollipop candies. And he was so disappointed with this. And I said, Well, honey, you know, how do you feel? And he said, I don't feel so good about it. I said, Okay, and what would you do differently? Because I didn't want to tell him, you know, I told you so. The natural inclination, right? You know, you just wasted all this money on these two little candy.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

And uh into the connection issue, bear with us for a moment.

SPEAKER_08 55:14

Okay, so so so I was just saying that and then he would say, you know, I would totally like play the games that my older brother played the next time I go. And I said, okay. And that was good enough because he needed that experience and um he needed to understand that that's what happens when you do. But he also learned a lesson of, you know, when mom tells you something, maybe, maybe I should listen to that uh voice because she was right, without me telling him that I was right. And so then, you know, his older brother sort of gave him his card and he played a game and he everybody had fun in the end. But um, but it was like something that you have to let them do. A lot of time parents come in and they bring their kids and they say, Hey, you fix my kid because he's not doing what I'm telling him to do. They're not supposed to do what he tells them to do, they're separate people. You're supposed to look at that person and say, like, okay, I could uh I could um make a deal with that person, I could communicate with that person, but it's a separate person from me. If they do, I I would worry more if uh children would do what parents tell them to do, because today it's you who they listen to, and tomorrow someone else, someone you don't know will tell them what to do, and they will do it because that's part of their habit. That's part of what they're used to do. Part of, you know, they're used to listen to somebody tell them what to do. Now, do you want them to listen to somebody, you know, as they get into their teenage years? You want them to have a head of their own, to make decisions on their own. And so that that, you know, these I call affordable mistakes. You know, if you didn't do your homework, I I swear to God, I don't check my kids' homework. I work with parents so that they don't. School is your responsibility. You don't do your homework, you get a bad grade, there's something you can do about fixing your bad grade, but these are your mistakes, your responsibility. This is how you learn how to be accountable for things. Because we don't have punishments, we have consequences, right? If you do something, you could have good consequences or bad consequences, right? Consequences are not necessarily a bad thing. You know, every action triggers uh something else, right? Reaction, response, something. And so you do your homework, the consequence is you get good grades, you excel in school. You don't do your homework, the consequences you get bad grades, you don't excel in school, right? And if you don't get good grades, the consequence of bad grades is that we're not gonna go to arcades on the weekend because you need to study to have good grades. So when when that happens, it the parent no longer becomes that person that is the only decisive force behind like what's gonna happen to me. And what if mommy or daddy is in a bad mood? Then I'm completely screwed, right? Because then you know I can't I don't know what to expect of these consequences. But if I know that the consequences are life that I'm leaving, that these are the rules, and you have to explain what the rules are for them to know it. But then, you know, if I waste money on trying to get a candy and I'm not gonna get it, then I'm not gonna have that card with money and I'm not gonna have the candy. But if I spend it on, you know, having fun and playing, then at least I'm gonna have that experience of playing in him. For him, it was more important today to try and get that candy.

unknown 58:40

But hey.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

Yeah, I actually, you know, we were in uh visiting our friends in in Arizona and we went to some reason I can't hear you. Because we went to gamble and they were like, Oh, you know, you're gambling, and I said, Look, I said, I I only go to gamble with a certain amount of money that I'm okay with spending. So to me, I'm playing a game and I'm paying to play the game. Yeah, and if I wasn't the money, I don't expect to win. If I won, great, it's exciting. But just playing is exciting, you know. You win some, you lose some, so you kind of gambling rolling the dice a little bit, but you're not expected to get rich of that um, you know, that situation. So, you know, kind of coming back to what you were saying with the candy, you know, I was trying to kind of explain something like it's you can have fun and pay for the fun, but the things you have fun, you know, you could play three times or twenty times, depending on the game you're playing. So, you know, what do you enjoy? Because that's the whole point of the game. But I think um, you know, kind of commenting a little bit on on what you were saying about reward and punishment, because I feel like that we still coach and parent that way through reward and punishment. I actually got a conversation with my older kid driving him home, and you know, there's he he likes to procrastinate and kind of you know fights the you know, he's a first-year high school, ninth grade, and so he's you know, and I said, Look, I said, This is your job and responsibility, and I'm not gonna punish you for not doing your work. I'm just not gonna reward you.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:08

So if you don't do something, you know, you'll talk to him not about the punishment or reward, talk to him about consequences, right? Uh of listen, if you're not, you know, today I'm the one rewarding you because I'm your parent and I want you to excel, but uh, and that's the way I motivate you. But think about the consequences. If you're not gonna get a good grades, it's not on me. I've done my schooling, it's on you because you are not gonna get into a good university or have more opportunities to be on a team at a good university or whatever. It's um life has consequences, whether you have parents or you don't have parents. And and I think that's the very important distinction in terms of um kids sort of reassessing and not living just in the in this uh situation where I have parents that I have to deal with. Parents are there to support, you know. And um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:09

Yeah, no, I was I was just gonna reiterate. I I I um because you just justified that was kind of like the next conversation we had was like exactly what you just said. It's like, look, I'm you know, you have me now, but like guess what happens if you don't get educated and you don't, you know, kind of progress yourself and invest in yourself. I said, you know, as you get older, you're gonna a lot of the people who are getting becoming doctors and lawyers and this and that, they will not be your friends anymore because you don't have things in common. They kind of get to a next stage in life and you're staying where you are because you just not because today you want to play Xbox and and hockey and hang out with your friends, but tomorrow those friends and and girlfriends or whatever else, they're gonna progress. And if you don't keep up, you're gonna fall behind. And I said, and if you see it all the time, you know, with as adults, like we've gone through that. So I love that you brought that up because we actually had that conversation.

Expectations And Nonverbal Pressure

SPEAKER_08 1:02:10

And I said, Look, I'm not trying to, you know, uh I also want to I'm sorry to cut you, but I also wanted to uh uh to to give you sort of this one thing that I always tell, like two things that I always tell parents um as I start working with them is that kids don't do what you tell them to do, they don't they do as you do. And that's a very important thing because um, because as you were talking about gambling, I was thinking about it, is that if you gamble and you tell them it's bad to gamble, they're not gonna hear what you're saying, they're gonna do as you do. So a lot of the times, us as parents, if we're talking about parenting, it's important to remember this, that we could tell them a hundred times how bad it is to smoke. If we have a smoke and they see us do it, and if they don't see us, they still know we do it, then they will smoke because they do as you do, not as you tell them to do. And parents are first the most important role models. And if you tell them to do something and you do otherwise, they feel like they're being lied to and that they can't rely on what you're saying. And so that's um, you know, I'm I'm more referring to when I tell my kids, don't take your gadgets, you know, whatever, phones, iPads, an hour after you wake up, because it's bad for your brain, your prefrontal cortex gets all light up and your nervous system gets all screwed up and doesn't develop the right way. And don't do it an hour before you go to bed, unless it's a Kindle and you read a book. And because of the same reasons, you get too excited and um and it doesn't work. And so, but then if they see you fall asleep with your phone in your hand, or they see you wake up and the first thing you do, you check your phone. Guess what they're gonna do?

unknown 1:03:59

Right.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:00

They're just gonna hide it from you so that you don't yell at them, but um, but they're gonna do exactly the same thing. So I try not to do that um so that they see that, especially like they they still run into our bed and like they still they see that I don't do that. So, but both parents obviously have to be on board with this, with these kinds of things. And another thing is that um I always tell parents, and that goes back to like yelling, is that the louder they are, the quieter you are as a parent. Because when the child is extremely dysregulated or some drama is happening in their life, they need to know that you're rock solid and that they can rely on you. If they get loud and they yell and they tell you all the wonderful things that the, you know, teenagers say, like, I hate you, you're the worst, you know, this is the worst time of my life. If you start yelling back something like, oh, you don't know what the worst is, or whatever, then you're not helping them get regulated, and you're not helping them deal with their big emotions that they're doing. They tell you they hate you, tell them, hey, I love you, I know you feel this way right now. Maybe when you calm her, we could have a conversation about it. And um, respond, I'm right here for you if you need me. And you could step away, or you could say, hey, I'm just gonna be here if they're younger in this room with you. But I understand it's very difficult for you right now because you feel all these big emotions. I know it's very difficult to do when you're a parent and your child is all banned out of shape, but if you do it enough times, it actually works. Won't work from the first try. But if you if you you're consistent with it, they will know that they can rely on you, and then it works.

unknown 1:05:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:47

I love that. And I think that's that's crucial. I love that advice because I think again, it it's hard sometimes. You know, you you try to put the best self forward. I totally agree with and I'm Known this in terms of just, you know, they watch what you do, not what you say. So the whole concept is always fresh in my head. And I think that's why my wife and I, like we work, you know, she got two masters. I got like we're constantly moving forward and you know, got educated in coaching and continue to do it. Um, but I also want to show them that um, you know, you have to have a set of values that's you know that kind of guide your principles that you can't compromise. Like you have yourself, like you said, what's who am I? What can I live with, you know, and still feel like I'm a good yeah, I want I don't want to use the word good boy, a good person, but yeah, but I am I'm happy with myself. That's probably the right way to do it. Like, where does it where does the line draw? Where can I where does it stop if I do this, then I compromise myself, and I don't no longer happy with myself, you know, and so that to me such a you know like a strong concept to have. And I was like, and everybody has it different. I said, what my line is or what my boundaries are is not the same as my kids because they are completely different human beings, you know, or my wife, like everybody's different, and the only thing I can do is respect their boundaries while having my own. And so kind of being able to talk about that and creating that, I think creates that culture of, as you said, like that trust, you know. But I'll you know good, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:34

They could they the kids are also very happy to be involved in what parents uh parents are happening to parents. Like we always share like how your day went because in the end of the day, we have this practice. I always recommend it to families, also does wonders to share like three good things that happen during the day, and everybody shares, and you fall asleep in a good mood, and then it you're it actually proven that you rest more and you wake up in a better mood when you do that before you go to bed, and it's a cool concept. And um, but we also discussed like what happened during the day, maybe challenges and what we would would would wanted to do differently through the day. And so when I was writing my doctorate, it was a very intense uh period of time. And then I went to because I did it at uh Siegmund Freud University in Vienna. And so when I when I was about to go and defend my doctorate, I was driving in a car and my kids are in the back, and I tell them, listen, guys, you know, this is it, mommy is no longer gonna like stay up late to write this uh work because I I work on a book during the day, and so they don't teat as much as they did with the doctorate work. And all of these things, and so I said, But after I'm gonna defend my doctorate, I'm no longer just gonna be Lena Fagan, I'm gonna be Dr. Lena Fagin. People are gonna refer to me as Dr. Fagin, and so they were listening and listening, and all of a sudden, my then like three-year-old said, Mommy, can we still call you mommy and not Dr. Fagin? Yeah, for now you can. But uh Dr. Mommy is uh important because yeah, but but uh yeah, they call me Dr. Mom. That's how M and Joey's phone. But um uh but the thing is is that our kids are also proud of us when we um when you can be the most embarrassing parent in the crowd and um because you're loud and obnoxious and whatever, or or they you could be a parent that they're proud of, and and that they would say, Hey, my mom did that, or my dad did that. And I I know that like your kids are extremely proud of you, but uh don't think for a second, and this goes out to everybody, is that your kids are not proud of you for what you do for every practice that you're side court, for every game that you're there, when they look at the stances and they see you there, they're as proud of you being there for them and showing up as you are of them being on that ice or being on that court in that pool playing. It's it's it's so mutual. And um, we a lot of times we underestimate how much they need to see us on those stands and in the nosebleeds or whatever you call them. And because it it is makes it makes a difference. They know you showed up for them, even if they do like a theater performance, they would look for you in that auditorium because it is so important to know that you have that support from your parents.

Consequences Beat Punishment

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

Awesome. Yeah, no, that's that's such a great point. I feel I also feel accomplished when I'm there, you know, like I'm I'm there with my kid, like I've done something for them and for me. I feel good about it. So I I totally take your point. You know, we were talking a little bit earlier. Um, and you know, I was listening to this comedian who said, Um, you know, he's a therapist who turned comedian. He's like, I had a client who came with a kid, and he says, Look, my kid has a problem because he doesn't want to go to college. Uh, he's like, I pay for his apartment, I pay for his car, I pay for his going out for partying, and he doesn't want to go to school. So the guy turns around, he's like, Your kid has no problems. He has a free car, he has a free apartment, he has he go out whenever he wants. He's like, You're the one who has the problem. Why would he go to college? He has everything he needs. Like, what's the point of college? He's like, You have a problem, so I can't help him, but I can't help you. And so I thought, you know, from a therapist joke, I think it was is really uh a funny way to interpret it. I know you kind of talked earlier about you know reward the punishment situation and how you're trying to almost like project our issues and get it out of the kid, but it's really not them, it's more us as parents.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:53

And the thing is that um as um as you teach kids uh responsibility and accountability, uh we have um this thing, and we I mean, I work with families and recommend that practice as well. When you start giving your children money, because money is a very important topic and how to handle money, and um a lot of the time kids have no clue, and then they get into debt once they get their first credit card, and they don't know what to do with that. But um uh one thing that happens is that so starting with probably age somewhere between eight and ten, once you start to give them pocket money, uh we always have, and and it's good to have not just us, but like families I work with have this rule. You get your whatever allowance you get, you know, 10 euros or whatever,$10 a week. You can't spend it all. You have to put aside a certain percentage for um philanthropy to give donation to a fund of your nonprofit of your choice. You want to help dogs, help dogs, homeless, homeless, you know, hospices, whatever it is, sick children, whatever it is. You gotta do good and contribute back. Uh part of it goes into savings. So, you know, one third you give away, one third you save. Savings could be savings when they're little, investments as they grow older, you know, as they become teenagers, they want to invest into some things to get you know return on their investment. And they could do it together with uh their parents if the parents are doing that, or just saving. And then part of the money they could spend. You know, so it's like three uh different piles you put together. And then um, if they want to spend, you know, one candy or whatever it is that they want to spend or accumulate, or they could distribute it between the other two piles if they want to, if they don't feel like they need the pocket money that week. So it's a good thing. Like we have like a kid's bank account because banks do this now that you could have like a bank card for a child. And um, and every week, like Joey would get his a little bit of his pocket money and he knows how to handle it and then like what to do with it. And then it changes the dialogue. Like um it changes the dialogue, and I see this a lot in the families, but uh, you know, not to mention clients. I we were riding in a car and we're going to the airport for to go away on vacation. And so I have this um niece, you have a subscription with the airport. If you fly out enough times, you have this free VIP access to get your luggage checked, you know, like a VIP, uh no line where all the crew goes. But I get free, but my children, I need to pay for them. And so at the time I wasn't gold yet, because when you're gold, it's like seven euros per person, but uh it was 10 euros per person. So I need to pay for two of my children because me and my husband were going with our cards as a as a privilege. And so my husband's like, the line is not gonna be so big, let's not buy it. And so Joey was sitting there, and he, the older one, and he's saying, Oh, but I want to go through the VIP, I don't want to stand in line. And so my husband tells him, Okay, you could pay it out of your own pocket money. Do you want to? He's like, How much is it gonna be? He's like, Well, it's 10 euros, and so he thought about it and he thought about it, and he said, No, let's go through regular line. Because he because for him, and and that's at that's a question of worth, because he was saving money to get this big LEGO set that like was 80 euros, and he was like, Well, this is he gets five euros a week, so he counted that's like two weeks more to wait until he's able to buy that Lego set that he really wanted. Like, no, I don't want to, you know, I'd rather stand in line and get my luggage checked with everybody else than go to the VIP line to the shorter line, and um and it's interesting how you see them evaluate things differently, not because you know, in in it, we never say uh like an air defoke, we don't have money. Because uh one thing, if you it's like one thing you want to tell them, and that's what I tell my kids, like if we go to like a mall or different stores and say, Oh, I want this, I want that. It's always we didn't plan to buy this as we were walking in. If you want this, let's think of how we can get it. So then they become active participants. It's not my mom or my dad is paying for my car or my apartment or this or that. But how can what can I do to make this happen? And then it's uh, I don't know, you babysit neighbor's kid or whatever, you know, depending on what's whatever is age appropriate. And then you sort of make that happen if it's still relevant, because a lot of times they get out of the store, they think about it, day goes by, they don't no longer need the thing that they really needed yesterday. But um, so that's um that that sort of creates that uh reaction versus response situation that you inevitably teach them instead of reacting like I'm not gonna buy this for you, or yeah, let's go buy this, and they feel like they wanted something stimulus, they reacted and it happened to them, but rather they took the time, the space to respond to this, and then they say, Oh, I really don't need that because I already have five balls, so I don't need another bowl to play. And so it's like it's really cool, it really works for you and a lot of families that work with they report back and saying this, these are all fantastic things to do.

Teaching Kids Money And Value

SPEAKER_01 1:17:33

Yeah, and it's such a good point. I I think I was talking to my older once, he has a girlfriend, and and he was going out with her, and I, you know, as a good parent, I was like, Well, you know, he's taking her on to sushi next to our house, they live nearby. You know, I was like, all right, here's your 40 bucks, you know, for you to take a girlfriend out. And he's like, No, dad. He's like, I have savings for my birthday and and money I made. So like sometimes he'll help me coach, uh, especially with junior rangers, and then I'll give him you know 10 bucks or whatever for coaching. So I try not to just give him allowance, but other rather let them earn it. And so he's like, No, he's like, I have I have the money that I'm gonna pay with it. I said, No, it's okay. It's like, you know, like you know, I want you to have a good time and you know, I love you, and I know you're a good kid, you've been doing all the right things. I said, So I want, you know, he's like, no, he wouldn't let me give money. And then you know, and I thought it was such a cool it was so cool to see that. Like he literally told me no. And you know, but I feel like his brothers that see that will get more from that than if I said no to him, you know. If I said no, you should take care of this yourself because you're big you're you know, you're 14 and you're turning into a man, you know. Uh when he did that, so you know, he's got two younger brothers that look up at him and saying, Oh, you know, that's how you're supposed to do it, you know. So I just felt it was like a proud moment, all of it, in the sense that you know he did that because uh I was taking the money, but okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:13

Well, that's good. That that's really good, that's really cool. And and that those are the moments when you know you did something right as a parent, right? Because uh makes you so proud, and but you also create that opportunity for him to earn the money so that he knows he'd done it and then he worked, and it's not I um um I wouldn't suggest paying your children for doing chores at home, because that's um, you know, because chores is how they contribute to being part of the family, right? So chores shouldn't be paid for, but something extras like moaning the loan or something or helping a neighbor with something, then that could be paid for, and that's how they know that they they can earn, especially when we talk about older teenagers, when they can start actually working, and that becomes a fantastic opportunity for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:06

Yeah, and he's been asking too, you know, because he's got he's 14, so he's now legally allowed to work, he just signed a piece of paper for school, and he can. So he's been looking at at where he can kind of have a part-time work thing. So we've you know, been looking around and telling him you could help with coaching and working with little kids a little bit, obviously, you know, uh maybe even working with the Rangers, uh, if you know, as he's getting older. But uh uh, you know, I think that it's it's awesome to have that mindset. Um, I know we're kind of uh you know, almost at an hour and a half here. We've been going at it. So you know that's why you're having fun.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:44

Yeah, and like kids, I just hear them walking through the door, so it's gonna get noisy.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:49

Yeah, that's okay. I was just uh I kind of wanted to ask you one last question before you wrap up, and that's a little bit about um just looking across the globe, but I you know, in terms of internationally. Um sorry, just thinking about um you know, the kids uh I know in the beginning of the show you were mentioning the kids go on the bus to tournaments and events, and I see that culturally here a lot of times it's the parents who are very involved, even at the older uh age groups. And when I talk to coaches and guys who grew up in Europe, they kind of at 12-30 years old, you kind of grown in, you already take care of your own things, you're independent. Some of them even left the house to go away some uh professional teams, and you don't see as much of that in the US. So, have you noticed that across the world in terms of like Europe, uh kids are adult earlier than maybe in some of the US and um you know?

Growing Up In Europe Versus US

SPEAKER_08 1:21:57

So it really depends because it's um uh so culturally speaking, different countries are definitely uh do it differently. I find that um I find that in European countries, it also depends like which part of Europe you live in, like if you're in a big city or not. But um I definitely see that kids um age, because the culture of boarding schools, for example, is so big in Europe. Uh, like you take UK, for example. I mean, it's part of the norm for to go to boarding school. And some kids start boarding school at seven and they don't live with their parents, they come home for the weekend. And um, I think a little bit more common among you know our generation of parents is for kids to go to boarding school when they're 12 or 14. But that's but that's also part of the norm. In the US, you have less of boarding schools, and uh and you hear less from the parents, they've send their kids to boarding school, unless it's like a military academy and the parents couldn't handle the child, and it's uh, but it's always there's some you always hear this with the context of some drama. Um, but so that that does happen and when the child goes and they're more independent, obviously, when they don't live inside the house. But um I think it really depends. Like if you're from a smaller town in um in the US, you'd probably stay more with the family longer. Depending on your socioeconomic status, you would either have to go to work earlier in life or not. And um I think it's a generational thing more than anything. I do hear from my child athletes, uh, from the clients that are teenagers, that um that US kids are are a little younger and later, they sort of grow up a little later uh in life. But um I think it kind of textual, you know, circumstantial because of the way that life is in terms of school and planning and how long you stay in the house and uh how you build your life. And a lot of times if you're in a small town, you hardly ever leave your small town unless you're traveling with parents. And then you'll if you have a child athlete and you're tied to competitions and practices, you travel a little less unless it's for competition and practices, and so the kids are less traveled and less global in that regard. When you live in Europe, you I mean, it takes me 40 minutes to get from France to Italy by car. So in and I drive to you know, Switzerland and Germany and Spain, and it's all in around in the span of one day. But um, I mean, a day to go to Spain, and then you spend some time there, and then you go back. But it's um but you you have a lot more exposure in terms of different cultures and different people and different countries, and you have a tendency to travel more to like Asia, I mean, um like China and Japan and all that. In the US, you see less of that, and so they're much more inward inclined, especially if you have um again, especially if you have this athletic side of life where you sort of tie and you can't miss a lot of practices. And um, and just a general culture of work culture, work ethic, you have a lot less vacation time to travel and to spend on exploring the world. So that that becomes a value if you think about it, not for every family, because obviously it's also you need to have the finance to do that. But um, you could travel on a budget and um and still give that glimpses of exposure to different cultures. I think it helps a lot for the development of a person to sort of see these other places in the world. And uh, there's a lot to see that are safe and comfortable to travel to, and um because it's uh it expands your horizons when you answer that question, who am I and what do I want to do, and what's the meaning of life? Because then you're not just tied to that small town that you grew up in and that you never left. And the world is not this big scary place. Well, it might be, but it's not if you have the opportunity to touch it when you're young. I guess you buy yourself a ticket with your kids and visit us.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:22

Yeah, I mean, I guess I was about to say that it takes me longer to go to New Jersey. That's for you to change to go to a different country. Yeah, well, yeah, you know, and then I don't go through like three, four states sometimes in the weekend between you know Jersey, Wangau, and then we go to Connecticut, then you know, Brooklyn, so not states, but maybe maybe sometimes boroughs or the tri-state area, but but there's so much driving and traveling with three boys in in travel hockey, plus me coaching, and all the other stuff, like it it gets fairly hectic. Um but I know we kind of you know, I'm on time. Oh, they'll get the wall of you in the back. Um I know we're we're kind of up on the uh you know, hour and a half here, but um I had two more questions that kind of like rapid fire that we could finish off. One is if you could name three character traits that you notice in successful athletes, what would they be?

SPEAKER_08 1:27:25

So one is um precision, it's um not to give up when tough gets tough. And um, and that's something that um is uh where parents could demonstrate that they make mistakes, but they also recover and then they do again and again and again. And this is uh goes back to they do as you do, not as you tell them to. So use your own example a lot and help them overcome the that and um become resilient. Adaptability is the other one is that um if you need to can. Schools, or you need to change teams, or you need to change your coach, your ability to adapt to the new environment is, or you need to change jobs, or you need to, you know, change whatever in your life. Change, there's a lot of change in our lives. So the easier you are able to adapt and um to adjust your life, the easier it's gonna be, all in all. So adaptability, resilience, and I would say I would say, you know, just on top of my head, I would say regulation, that that ability to have the freedom of responding there rather than reacting. That's a skill. You could learn it. It's um uh you know, with any personality, you could learn it. It's just a question of patience, which I think a lot of people today are lacking because of the instant gratification culture.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:53

Right. And so if you flipped it on three things that you feel can hold somebody back, would that be the opposite of these three traits, or is something uh different that comes to mind?

SPEAKER_08 1:29:06

I think that fear uh holds a lot of people back of doing something, that fear of uh not being able to succeed, fear of um you know stumbling and not doing, fear of somebody coming and punishing you. And that fear, although in some instances it could be sort of natural, like caution, being cautious, a lot a lot of the times it does come from uh traumatic episodes in the childhood when the child did something wrong, being scolded for it, and then they don't want to try anymore because their parents are gonna get mad. So watch out for that, uh not to instill that fear in the child and to see if the coach doesn't do it either. So because then they become hesitant and don't want to do. So fear, I think, is the biggest holdback. Um, I um I think that if you are rigid in terms of your adaptability, like you don't know how to adapt to the new environment, that would be the sort of the backside of the adaptability. The rigidity is um something that can hold you back. Like when you think, oh, if I move, that's gonna be the end of the world, but it also comes back to fear, I think, is um of that new environment, of that change. And um I think that's it really. It really comes down to fear that that would hold you back. Uh in a in the larger realm of things. I mean, obviously we could uh rationalize and explain it in many different ways.

Traits Of Successful Athletes And Wrap

SPEAKER_01 1:30:31

Right. No, I agree. I think I think fear is is one thing that if you learn to acknowledge it, and then you understand that you know failure is part of the process, and so you have to keep trying. And I I think there was a saying, right? If you want to accomplish something, you have to be okay with looking foolish, because you always look like a fool the first time you do it, and so you know, which probably one of the biggest fears that we have, right? Is how you're perceived, and so um, yeah, I think that that's a great point. So I really appreciate all the insights. I think we've gone through so much in the hour and a half that we've been together. So I really appreciate it. This was wonderful. Um, we should do more of these uh more often. I know it's a bit a while. Yeah, but uh it's awesome. And thank you everybody for tuning in again and for listening to us. Uh, as usual, this will be up on all of their favorite podcast platforms shortly. Um, but thank you for joining us on a Sunday. And uh please do share the podcast and with your friends, family, and and across the world. Um thank you. Any last thoughts? Thank you for having me. Of course.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:46

You know, I mean, I loved it. It's uh fantastic. I think it helps all the parents out there, and uh my lights are kind of going out now. But um, yeah, but yes, let's do this again.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:59

Awesome. Thank you, everybody. Have a wonderful Sunday.