Canna-Curious: Are Weed Moms The New Wine Moms? (with Danielle Simone Brand and Leona Thomas)

Today we’re talking about something that might be a little controversial… cannabis! It’s being legalized in more and more states, but there are still so many questions and misconceptions out there. So we’re chatting with two moms today who can tell us a little more about cannabis and how it fits in with their health, their daily lives, and their parenthood.

First, Jasmine, Amanda and Rachel are joined by Leona Thomas, a mom in Oregon who owns a dispensary. Leona discusses what it’s like to be a woman of color in the marijuana industry, why she wanted to open her business in a historically Black neighborhood, and how she uses cannabis in her own life.

After that, Jasmine sits down with Danielle Simone Brand, the author of Weed Mom: The Canna-Curious Woman's Guide to Healthier Relaxation, Happier Parenting, & Chilling TF Out. Danielle explains what’s wrong with the “Reefer Madness” stereotypes about marijuana use, how cannabis helps her be a better parent, and good ways for moms who might be “canna-curious” to dip their toes in the water. Danielle and Jasmine also discuss the very important issue of racism in the creation and enforcement of cannabis laws.

Finally, Rachel, Amanda and Jasmine raise a glass to Spring Break, to Amanda’s amazing mother-in-law, and to Jasmine teaching her son how to drive (and surviving the process!) in this week’s “Toast to Joy.”

If you want to join the conversation, head over to theswppod.com! You can share your thoughts with us, find out how to join our Facebook group SWEEP, and more.

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media!

Twitter: @TheSWPpod and @RedWineBlueUSA

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Transcript

The Suburban Women Problem - SEASON 2, EPISODE 14

Jasmine Clark: Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining us. I'm Jasmine Clark. 

Rachel Vindman: I am Rachel Vindman.

Amanda Weinstein: I’m Amanda Weinstein. 

Jasmine: And you're listening to The Suburban Women Problem. Today, we’re talking about something that might be a little controversial… cannabis. It's been legalized in more and more states, but there are still so many questions and misconceptions out there. So I'm excited to share my interview with Danielle Simone Brand, author of Weed Mom: The Canna-Curious Woman's Guide to Healthier Relaxation, Happier Parenting, and Chilling TF Out. 

Amanda: I’ve heard of wine moms. Now we have weed moms? 

Jasmine: And before that we'll be joined by Liana Thomas, a mom in Oregon who owns a dispensary and is passionate about bringing more women of color into the cannabis industry.

Amanda: Oh, first can I say, we're going from legalizing apartments to legalizing weed. We are hitting all the controversy and I'm here for it. 

Rachel: Yes. Speaking of controversial, I don't think that white men are okay guys.

Amanda: No! They're not okay. 

Jasmine: Oh my gosh. 

Rachel: The Tucker Carlson thing, which is weird because I thought they liked to be white and now they have to tan their genitals?

Amanda: Tucker Carlson's idea of what a man is is confusing. I had no idea that's what his idea of what a man was. He had to show this wonderful video to share with all of us of what he thinks a man is, and really just makes us know that these men need some help, like right away. They are not okay. 

Rachel: Less light therapy, more talk therapy. That is really where I think they should go with this. 

Jasmine: Like, if you have not seen this montage, it is probably one of the strangest things I've seen and it ends with “the end of men.” Like, that's the name of whatever he's like promoting. And I'm like, this video legit is like the end of men. Like, what is this? I'm so confused by all of it. 

Rachel: So I guess it's like, and just basically what it is for those of you who don't know, Tucker is very upset about men being emasculated in his eyes. And I don't really know what started this, but they feel very under attack because they have competition now. They have competition from women, from people of color, from just, you know, equality.

Amanda: I think what's interesting about that is they assume that having more progressive general attitudes is bad for men. Like we're saying men can't be men, but I think the interesting thing about that is that if you look at general attitudes, aren't just constraining for women saying women are caretakers, men are not right. That's constraining for men because men are also fathers. And so actually, if you look at the research on gender attitudes and some of it is mine, Men under more progressive gender attitudes actually do better. Right? They're less constrained by feeling like you can't be a caretaker and you can't be a dad.

Even if you look at Ruth Bader Ginsburg's like big trial, on the basis of sex, was all about how gender attitudes were actually constraining a man, saying that where our legal system actually said, men can't be caretakers. And so I think it's really interesting to say that he somehow being oppressed because he can't be a man when the opposite is true. Most men are oppressed by gender attitudes if they want to do something like be a caretaker or be a home stay-at-home dad. And so this idea is just asinine. 

Jasmine: I completely agree. Moving to a world that is more accepting of the fact that men are human beings and all human beings have the ability to have emotions and not just women? That is liberating.

Amanda: But this is their strategy for Biden, right? Let's return to this order of men first, men in power, men presidents, men VP, and this is what they want. And this is how they're going to tack the Dems and attack Biden and try and pull his numbers down. 

I mean, so I think it's important to point out that I think Biden's numbers are a lot about inflation. Inflation sucks right now.

So we actually just heard from the Cleveland Fed President who basically said, yeah inflation sucks, basically it's too high, but this was really the mandate of the federal reserve. This is not Biden's thing that he does. And actually it is intended that way because we don't want the President to be messing with prices. But it's also markets, it's supply and demand. 

Honestly, I'm a little sick of this economic message that the way that we get ahead is we put women down. We put minorities down. That's not how you get ahead. That's how you perceive yourself as being ahead of someone. You're not actually taking a step forward there. You might actually be just taking a step back and pushing other people with you. 

Jasmine: I agree with you. That is not the way. But sometimes when I look at who wins elections, it actually is really disheartening to me that the racist person or the person who, you know, brags about grabbing women by their genitals, those are the ones who seem to be winning elections. And so I think all of those things are horrible, but for some on the right, it actually tends to be— just looking at the numbers, specifically— a winning message for them. Like that's what riles up their base. 

Rachel: So I have some thoughts here. I know, everyone’s shocked that I have some thoughts here. So last week, Jasmine, you get an interview with Kasie Hunt and Michael Bender. If I'd known this— again, I told you if I'd known advance, I would’ve told you, you are walking into an ambush. But nevertheless, it was, I watched it, you did a great job and it was a nice interview, but there is this idea… you talked about, like, women Independents or centrist women now going to the Republican Party because they didn't get what they wanted: paid leave, other things, from the Biden administration.

To which I would say to these women, and I'd say it to their faces, not just, this isn't just “say it in a tweet, it’s a knockout” — or, sorry, “say it in a tweet, it’s a cop out. Say on the street, it's a knockout.” I would literally say this on the street. So I would say to them, have you no shame?? Don't come here and act like if you don't get everything you want, that you're going to throw a fit and walk somewhere else. How nice that you have that luxury!

Jasmine: The privilege.

Rachel: Not everyone in the Democrat party has that luxury. Like how spoiled and privileged are you going to be to just say, “well, we're not getting what we want at Nordstrom, we are going to Bloomingdale’s, that's it.” But the reality is we need everyone to win. We need people to vote and we need people to have ownership in this and what's going on. And I just, I find it so, so frustrating right now. 

Jasmine: It’s very frustrating. I think the problem is the reality versus like what we think can happen. So for example, you know, we want voting rights, but if you have roadblocks, like two people in your own party who won't, you know, sign on for changing the rules so you can get it, then you have to fall back to the things that you can get, cause you don't want to get nothing. And so we end up with roads instead of voting rights. We end up with bridges instead of paid leave and childcare.

Rachel: We need to elect more people. We need to not lose seats. We need to gain seats that will get us what we want, which is why the fickleness of like, “I'm going to the other side” makes no sense. Do you think the other side is going to vote for paid leave? Because they didn't vote for paid leave last time! They're the reason why we don't have it!

Jasmine: Exactly! Exactly!

So we've talked about some of these things that people would like to see, and another thing and the topic this week, cause it is 4/20, that I think people are really starting to change their mind about across the country is cannabis. And so do you guys think that de-scheduling cannabis or you know, making more progress on cannabis… if Biden did this, do you think that would help him? 

Amanda: Yes. Oh my God. Yes. So Casey has done this in Ohio and people immediately, right and left, came out and said, “yeah, thank God someone said it. Cause we all been sitting here thinking about it and nobody's been doing it.” And it became so popular that Republicans had to start saying like, “well, maybe we'll do our own bill to legalize marijuana.” And you're like, yeah, uh-huh. 

But I think like they're scared, like honestly, and that is what a lot of this I think comes down to. You are scared. Some people are still in this old age of Reefer Madness and “just build roads” to actually do something new, like get over. Stuff is scary. It's time for something new.

Rachel: I mean, this is something that I just know nothing about. I will be the person who is I don’t, I mean, I'm like, I was the person when Nancy Reagan said “don't do drugs” and like, “you could get addicted if you do do drugs at one time.” Like I was the kid who that worked on.

Amanda: Me too! Haha.

Rachel: We’re definitely outliers then because the numbers show that that is actually not, that was not super effective. 

Amanda: I know! Sorry, sorry, Nancy. 

Rachel: But I do have friends with chronic diseases who have used marijuana. And like, so in the military you can move from place to place and it might be legal in some places and not legal in other places. And that has been an issue for a couple of friends of mine with chronic illnesses. Who am I to question what works for someone? 

Amanda: So we actually posted this in our Facebook group SWEEP, because we are curious about what some of the women in our community think about cannabis and here's what a few of them had to say.

Rachel: So Lindsey in Oklahoma wrote, “it saved my child's life. He has anorexia with a subcategory of bulimia and without it, he would have starved himself to death.”

Jasmine: And Kim in Colorado wrote, “when I moved from Indiana to Colorado, I expected marijuana to be sold on every corner and everyone to be in a fog all the time. I could not have been more wrong.”

Amanda: And Debra wrote, “my stepson suffers from PTSD following his Air Force service. Intensive therapy was helpful as were some of the prescription meds he was given, but he's found that the most relief is from medical marijuana.” So Deborah also suffers from PTSD, and she said that she has used marijuana recreationally for decades, not recognizing how effective it was in reducing her symptoms. She says, “I just knew I was relaxed and more at ease with myself, but even with my condition, I can't get it legally. Federal legalization is long overdue.”

Jasmine: All of those perspectives are so interesting. So I think this is a perfect time to bring in our next guest so we can get the perspective of a woman of color in the cannabis industry. Leona, welcome to the podcast. 

Leona: Hi. Thank you for having me! I am honored. 

Jasmine: You’re a mom. You own a dispensary. You're an IT specialist. And you're passionate about supporting Black and brown women in cannabis. What made you decide to change from a career in it to a career in cannabis? 

Amanda: I feel like this question is why are you the coolest mom here?

Leona: Well, I don't know about that, but I I'll wear that badge proudly because I have a 19 year old. So being cool at this age is pretty good. 

So when we started our journey in cannabis, I was obviously a novice user in like college and in my young adult hood, but it was on the precipice of me realizing that this industry was making money and there weren't a lot of people that looked like me in the industry. And so then as I started researching the industry more, and there wasn't a lot of research around it because it's federally illegal. So then I'm like, “okay, well I want to be a part of this conversation.” One, I feel like I should be entitled to make the same amount of money as other people in the industry. And two, if I get into the industry, then I can advocate for the research behind it. 

Just recently I had surgery, wasn't sure I was going to be able to record this podcast and I was in the hospital and they wanted to prescribe me so many opioids to come home with. And I was like, “no, thanks. So I'm going to use medicinal cannabis, just letting you guys know, let me know if there's any problem with anything that you've done that could possibly have an effect.” And my doctor goes, “you know what, it's legal, but no one's ever asked me that. She was like, “I'm going to do more research.” But I was able to manage my own pain so effectively this last week and a half that I'm able to sit upright right now and speak with you. 

Amanda: Are there misconceptions that you run into a lot, being a mom in this business?

Leona: Well, yes, all the time. And I mean, I have to address the proverbial elephant in the room. It's different for white moms and Black moms. And I know a lot of people don't want to have that conversation, but it's true. If I'm, if I'm talking to some of my girlfriends who are white, it's like the hippie cool thing to do. If they're consuming, like it's, it's cool. It's like west coast vibes and chill. 

When I mention it into a space, like I was at a PTA meeting and mentioned it because that's me, I'm going to talk about it everywhere. Like whatever. And people were like, “oh my gosh, well, have you ever been charged with a crime?” I received that question! So I said, “No. Have you ever been charged with a DUI?”

Amanda: That was a good response.

Leona: The perception is, “well, aren't you just on the couch all day?” Like no, I'm not. I'm a functional mom who has responsibilities. I get my kids up, I pack their lunch, I take them to school, I'm attending all of their events. 

And then it made me realize just how ignorant some people are. And I don't mean ignorant in an offensive way, but just the lack of knowledge about the varying uses methods, consumption, micro-dosing that goes along with cannabis. 

Jasmine: Speaking of racism, I kind of want to kinda just talk about the industry itself. So the industry overall across the country is overwhelmingly white and male, two things that you are not. So could you tell us about what hurdles you might've faced and how we can support other women of color who are thinking about going into the cannabis industry? 

Leona: So when we say cannabis industry, I want to start with that. There are so many levels in which you can enter, right? You can be a grower or cultivator. You can open a dispensary, you can be into photography. There's multiple ways to enter the industry. But if we're talking specifically behind retail and opening a dispensary, or wholesale, that's an expensive avenue to get into. So the number one thing I would say is funding. 

Historically across the board, Black people have a harder time receiving loans in general, but when you're talking about the cannabis industry, it's federally illegal. So we cannot receive traditional lending. So that means we're often relying on investors, angel investors or other sources in means to get into the industry. So funding is the biggest hurdle. 

And then the second hurdle is we have to have a seat at the table. That's not just a placeholder, if that makes sense. So when I'm at the table, my voice and my opinion, and what I'm saying, should be valued and heard. 

Amanda: We have talked about red lining on the show, and I read that you specifically wanted to open your dispensary in a red lined neighborhood. So can you tell us more about that?

Leona: We are very true to our culture, our ancestors, our lineage. We want to be where our people are. We have seen so many of these dispensaries pop up in areas in communities where we are, Black people specifically, and the pricing is outrageous. And so I'm thinking this is a natural medicine that we should be able to provide to a demographic that makes a dramatic amount less than median white America. And you're over pricing overtaxing, these products. 

Our building that we're in currently was once a historical barbershop and people come in and they love to tell that story and they bring in their uncles and aunts and parents that remember when it was a barbershop and they love to see the fact that Black people are still in that space.

Jasmine: Leona, I just want to thank you so much for joining us today. This was a wealth of knowledge. Thank you. You can find her on Instagram at unapologetically_trese. And if you're ever in Portland and want to check out her business, it's called ReLeaf Health. And so with that, we are going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll have my conversation with Danielle Simone Brand.

BREAK

Jasmine: Our guest today is a mom, a public speaker, and the author of Weed Mom: The Canna-Curious Woman's Guide to Healthier Relaxation, Happier Parenting, and Chilling TF Out. Danielle Simone Brand, thank you for joining me on The Suburban Women Problem! 

Danielle Simone Brand: Thank you so much, Jasmine. I'm thrilled to be here. 

Jasmine: We know all about wine moms, in fact, this podcast is produced by an organization called Red Wine and Blue. But your book is called Weed Mom. So could you tell us a little bit about your journey with cannabis and why you decided to write this book? 

Danielle: Yeah. You know, that's a great question because my cannabis journey is kind of a circuitous one and I tell it in the book, actually I tell it in the first chapter of how I actually kind of hated it, low key hated it let's say, for a while in the beginning. Honestly, and I tell this story too in my book, because I married somebody who overused cannabis and who leaned on it really for his mental health, when he probably should have been using an array of tools. I think cannabis is a help for mental health for a lot of people. But I think if you lean on it exclusively, it can cause some problems. And so it did that for him. 

And, you know, it's a weird way to start out a book that's really pro cannabis to say, “Hey, my husband had a problem with it.” But it's real. And I wanted people to read it and feel like I was a relatable person and I've been through issues, which I absolutely have. So, you know, I didn't like it for a while. Didn't think it was for me, it wasn't my bag. 

And then I got into it through the sort of the intellectual route. I started becoming a freelance writer around the time that California was legalizing. I was living in California, so many, you know, so much interest in the topic at that time. Right. And so it was getting all kinds of assignments about cannabis, you know, in my freelance work, before I even cared that much about it. But I had to learn, I had to research and I had to interview, and I ended up falling in love with it, honestly. It bridges science and health and wellness. And I come from a yoga background as well as an academic background. So that was really interesting to me. It's about, you know, social justice and equity. It's about, you know, the culture, so many things. 

And so I fell in love with it intellectually, and then I was like, “okay, I've got to dip my toe into the waters of legal cannabis here.” And I got a low dose vape pen got on my yoga mat and was really cautious. But I had a very wellness centric experience. I had a beautiful embodied experience and I realized, “okay, this is a wellness tool. Moms could use this, moms I know could be, could be benefiting.” And so, you know, that it was really just a hop, skip, and a jump down the cannabis path for me from there and I became a total enthusiast.

Jasmine: I love that. I love that story. I love how you kind of have a spectrum of perspectives and that you started out not really knowing much about it and really not liking it to, as you learned more, you became a lot more open to it. And I think that can be translated to so many things in our society right now, where a lot of people are really against things that they don't really know that much about, but if they had an opportunity to really engage with it and learn about it, they might realize that the thing they hate, they don't actually hate it. It was just that they didn't really know as much about it until they took the time to really dive into it. So I love that story. 

Danielle: I think that's true. It's really true about cannabis. Absolutely. And that's why I wrote the book, because I think that once people learn about it and know about it, they won't fear it and hate it quite so much.

Jasmine: Yeah. So speaking of that, I think we're getting to a point in our country here in America where people are a lot more open about learning about cannabis, but there are still those out there that have the, the Reefer Madness stereotypes in their minds. So what are some misconceptions about being a weed mom or just about weed in general?

Danielle: Yeah, it's a great question because those stereotypes and stigmas totally exist. They persist, as we all know. I think the biggest ones are about being lazy, irresponsible, not able to fulfill your roles if you use cannabis as a mom. And that is really far from the truth, based on the dozens and dozens, probably hundreds at this point, of women that I've interviewed about their cannabis use. And my own experience as well, and also interviewing lots of experts and, you know, cannabis science people.

So the truth is that there's a wide spectrum of cannabis usage, you know, from totally non impairing non intoxicating CBD that might just help with certain conditions, maybe some sleep, anxiety, pain sort of thing, to, you know, being very, very stoned and not able to parent. Like there's a very wide range.

And so I always advise parents to stay on that, you know, stay on the side of low dose, moderate and micro-dosing to really just, you know, shift your perspective a little bit. And we can get into this later, how it helps my parenting, but you know, it's not about using it to the max. It's really just about calibrating your dose, your product to find the right fit for you. 

And honestly, moms I talk to say that it helps them be more productive. It's the opposite of being lazy. Again, it's dose dependent. It's product dependent. Cannabis is not one thing. You know, there's so many modes of administration, so many ways that we can take it in: smoking, vaping, eating, drinking, sublinguals, tinctures, topicals, serums, like there's so many ways. And so, you know, just educating people about the wide range of options and the wide range of possibilities of how you can feel with cannabis is I think really helpful for that. 

Jasmine: I love that. So I do want to get into the whole parenting part, but before I do that, I want to talk a little bit about the racism part. The truth is, there a lot of people who look just like me who have a very different experience with enforcement of cannabis than what we're seeing right now. So right now weed is just becoming legal in a lot of different states, still federally it's not technically legal, but in a lot in a number of states, it's becoming legal. But there are still people who are basically caught up in our justice system because of past marijuana laws. So can you talk a little bit about the often racist history of marijuana laws in our country? 

Danielle: Absolutely. This is such an important issue and something that in the cannabis space, we are talking about more and more and more. And I'm happy to see that. I write about it quite a bit in the book too, because you know, I want new people to come into cannabis and enjoy it and all these things, but they need to know about that this past, this history, this reality. And it's not just the past, it's the present. Right? 

So, you know, cannabis laws from the very beginning of prohibition and the reefer madness era, it was targeted specifically against brown and Black people, Mexican immigrants and laborers who were coming up from Mexico and bringing the practice of, of, you know, using cannabis to help ease the pains of physical labor. You know, low dose cannabis and something that really wasn't a societal issue at all, but they, they made it one because of xenophobia and racism. 

And the jazz community that was primarily Black in the beginning, right, it was definitely centered around cannabis consumption and the enjoyment of, and the sort of the creativity that can come from from cannabis. Cannabis was specifically identified with Black and brown communities and demonized specifically in a very racialized way. And from the beginning, the drug war, the war on drugs has been unequally targeting people of color, disrupting communities in some cases, devastating communities. And it's not just the war against cannabis. It's the war on drugs. But I do focus of course, on cannabis in my book. And we have 40,000 cannabis prisoners still languishing too. And that's wrong. 

So, you know, yes, I want a legal regulated industry. Yes, it can be fun. It can be medicine, it can be all sorts of things. And we need to, you know, to right these wrongs and to do what we can to help bring people out of prison for the US to rewrite the laws. We need expungement, we need you know, we need social equity programs that actually create generational wealth for people who have been disproportionately affected. So yes, this is a huge, important part of our industry.

Jasmine: You know, I see this as a lawmaker as well, because a lot of times as states are adopting these laws that will basically bring cannabis production and basically introduce an entirely new industry to their state. But a lot of those laws are also written to where if you have ever been charged with anything drug related ever, you cannot take part in this new industry. And I've always felt like that was not necessarily fair, because again, you are penalizing someone now for something they did before the law that you're writing now was in place. Now they would have never been in jail in the first place. 

Danielle: Absolutely. And you know, it varies state by state so much when it comes to who can participate in the industry, you know, who gets priority licenses, all that stuff. New York is a place to look at that’s, maybe, hopefully, fingers crossed, doing it the right way. Their social equity program seems to be pretty involved and thoughtful. Of course they haven't started legal sales yet and, or, you know, licenses haven't been awarded. And so that really remains to be seen. But they're specifically, if you have been negatively impacted, specifically incarcerated through association with cannabis and the drug war, you actually get priority for licenses. So they're doing it the opposite way, which is great, but you're right that in so many places, it was done the wrong way.

Jasmine: The opposite way.

Danielle: Right.

Jasmine: All right, so let's shift a little bit and talk about parenting. So I would love to hear more about how weed intersects with your parenting and what ways do you find that it helps you be a better mom. 

Danielle: Yeah. You know, so many ways, honestly, it's a wellness, it's a wellness tool for me. Cannabis is—and I don't just use THC, I use CBD as well as other cannabinoids, we're learning about other cannabinoids too. So it's not all just about how we feel. But you know, it certainly is about feeling better. And so I am better physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually even, with cannabis in my life. I sleep better, which is huge after having my kids who didn’t sleep like at all for awhile. I had some sleep issues and really so finding that like peaceful eight hours again has been huge for me and cannabis helps there.

Certainly pain, I have migraines and cannabinoids in general helped me just ward off migraines. Eliminating alcohol and substituting it with cannabis helps me with migraines too. So that's a little trade off. And mood management too, honestly. And I don't have clinical diagnoses, but I do suffer from anxiety as so many of us do. I do have you know, moments of overwhelm and irritability with my kids and, you know, cannabis in the right doses— again, right doses, right products, you know, and I know my body, I know how I respond to it cause I have experimented enough. I know that it can help me shift just a little bit and just be more fun, be more creative. 

And these are for like, you know, those low stakes at home moments where we're bonding and playing or reading or cooking or gardening. It's not where I am like, driving them around town or anything. So I'm safe and responsible, but you know, absolutely it helps me interact with my kids and it also just helps me feel better physically. 

Jasmine: On that same note, as a parent, you know, we always are trying to figure out the best way to talk to our kids about sensitive subjects. What do you think about telling our kids about cannabis or whether or not we are using cannabis and just, how would we talk to them about drug use in general? 

Danielle: Yeah. So that is such an important issue. I have a whole chapter about that specifically about, about cannabis in my book, because I think it is so important. And I have like an age by age breakdown. 

So there is no one right conversation. Right. But there are sort of guidelines and ways into the conversation that I think are helpful. I think that if it's not too risky for the parents, like, you know, considering the legal status of cannabis in their state, their job, you know, their co-parenting situation, you know, that's applicable. Those things do matter. But if it's, if it's safe for you, if it's not too risky for you, I do recommend honesty because I think to change the narrative, we have to talk to kids, right. To change the cultural societal narrative around the plant, we actually have to educate them.

And I do talk to my kids a lot. Lots of moms that I interviewed do the same, because it's all about… it's about normalization and being responsible at the same time. I want them to feel that plant medicine, cannabis, is normal. And it's not for them yet. 

Jasmine: No, that makes sense. I mean, there's a lot of things I think we don’t—I mean, some parents might, but a lot of parents don't necessarily hide that they have a glass of wine with dinner, you know. And you have a conversation with your kid and explaining to them why they can't have that yet. So it doesn't have to be this big mysterious thing. And I think the more we make things mysterious, the more curious kids are about those things.

Danielle: I do too. Absolutely. 

Jasmine: So speaking of curious, if we have listeners that are “Canna-curious,” where do you recommend they start? 

Danielle: Yeah. So first of all, I do recommend going to the legal marketplace. You know, we're voting for it, polls show we want it. So let's support it with our dollars. I know it's expensive on the legal marketplace, but you're more, you're much more likely to get quality tested products. 

I think CBD is always an easy entry for folks because it's not intoxicating. It is, it does change the way we feel a little bit, but it doesn't impair the way, you know, THC in higher quantities can do. So I think that's a super easy entry people can, you know, take a little bit for pain or for anxiety and see how they feel. Also, I mean, I have a lots of tips. Stop me whenever you're ready! Haha

Jasmine: No it’s okay, I love it.

Danielle: Okay. So, I mean also know that there are so many options. Most people still equate cannabis with, you know, smoking a joint or smoking a bong, which, you know, is fun for lots of people, but not the only way, you know, there's vaping and vaporizing that is even healthier than vaping and smoking. There’s, like I mentioned, you know, all sorts of different edible products and tinctures and things. So you don't have to smoke if you don't want to. That's a good thing to know. 

And if people are curious about THC, I always say start low and go slow. If you don't get any effect the first time that's okay. Because I'd rather that then you take too much and have a bad experience. So start low and go slow.

Jasmine: Start low, go slow. I love it. I love it. So before we go, we'd like to ask a few rapid fire questions. Are you ready? 

Danielle: Yeah, let's do it!

Jasmine: Alright. What's a song that every time you hear it and you have to sing every word?

Danielle? Okay. I may or may not have been screaming the lyrics to Like A Prayer last week. I love that song. 

Jasmine: Hey, it's a good song!

Danielle: It’s a good song!

Jasmine: Were you alone?

Danielle: I was with 10 other cattle moms actually. And we were at this amazing event in Chicago, it’s called Daybreaker, where it’s a sober dance party in a museum. And it was amazing. 

Jasmine: I love it. I love it. All right. Next question. What movie do you watch to cheer yourself up after a hard day? 

Danielle: Oh, well, I don't have a lot of time to watch movies, but the movies that make me feel uplifted and good about humanity are like Hamilton and Encanto. I love Lin-Manuel Miranda's whole vibe, his take on humanity. 

Jasmine: Same! I like find myself dancing to the songs from Encanto, like all the time. Like if they come on, I'm just like,

Danielle and Jasmine: (singing) We don’t talk about Bruno…

Jasmine: Haha. All right. So I read that you're from Hawaii. So what was the best part of growing up on a tropical island? 

Danielle: Okay. Having the same wardrobe all year is pretty great. Yeah. Also it's beautiful. 

Jasmine: I can imagine. Also I'm slightly jealous that you lived in Hawaii. I want to go there one day. It's on my list of things to do very soon, actually. So what's your favorite treat when you've got the munchies? 

Danielle: Okay. I have this spread, it's hazelnut and chocolate like Nutella. And I put it on a water crackers, just like very plain crackers. It's just so good. The crunch, the creaminess, the sweetness, the hazelnut, the chocolate. 

Jasmine: It sounds delicious. Munchies or not, that just sounds absolutely delicious. All right. What's your favorite date night with your husband? 

Danielle: What’s a date night? Just kidding. Yeah, we kind of lost track of that the last couple of years, but as I recall, I liked to go out to dinner and and you know, watch a play or some live music or just walk around downtown is always fun. 

Jasmine: I know, I like the more low key, like chill date nights as well. I don't have a husband, but when I have one, if you're, if you're listening, if you're out there, I like low key date nights. 

Alright. Alright. So that is the end of our rapid fire questions. Where can people go to find out more about you and your book? 

Danielle: Yeah. I am most active right now on Instagram,  @DanielleSimoneBrand. That's also the name of my website, DanielleSimoneBrand.com. And yeah, you can find me on the other platforms too. Just not quite as often. 

Jasmine: Gotcha. All right. Well, it's been so great talking to you about weed moms and weed and canna-curiosity. Thank you so much for stopping by The Suburban Women Problem. 

Danielle: Thank you so much, Jasmine. It's been a pleasure.

BREAK

Amanda: Welcome back everyone. Jasmine, I really enjoyed your interview with Danielle. So this is really meaningful to actually me and my family, and part of the reason why my husband Casey has been fighting for legalizing marijuana is because his mother has MS. And we were introduced through that community how important that medicinal marijuana is to people who have MS. It really helps for some people with MS, and it can be very life-changing just to have access to marijuana when they need it. 

Jasmine: Yeah. You know, and Georgia, we still have not necessarily gotten past all the legal hurdles, but one of the ways we started to even move in this direction was when parents of children who could use cannabis oil for their conditions—and it was a lots of different conditions— when those parents came in and said, “stop making me a criminal because I want to do what I need to do for my child.” 

Rachel: But I, what I hear in this conversation and talking to Leona and your interview with Danielle is that there's a lot of room for us to be advocates for people who do want to use it. And I mean, as I said before, I'm not much of a drinker, although I'm often blamed for being a wine mom and an alcoholic, but I don't drink very, you know, I just don't drink regularly. I just like to control, I keep my stress in and not release it in any way. That's how I mostly deal with stress.

Amanda: Haha.

Rachel: So I do think though that it's, it's a point where in all seriousness, we can, we can be advocates for people. And I think we need to learn how to be an ally and an advocate, even if it's something that doesn't affect us. And again, that's just part of being a good neighbor and a good community member. Not just worrying about the stuff that affects us, because that is not the way to be a good member of society.

Jasmine: Absolutely. All right. So before we go each week, we like to leave you with something positive that we call our Toast to Joy. So, Rachel, what's your Toast to Joy this week? 

Rachel: Well, my daughter finally has spring break this week. Although the weather is not springy at the moment though. But we were able to spend Passover with family and then take a little bit of a break away.

And it's nice. We've done some travel with her while she's been in school, but now it's just nice to like, have a break, no homework. And we went to a Broadway play. So it's nice to be back you know, with with reasonable precautions and mask wearing and showing vaccine cards and—

Amanda: What did you see?

Rachel: We saw Six, which is about Henry VIII’s six wives. And it was so fun. And if you have a teen or a tween, my daughter absolutely loved it. And so it was, it was really special. So Amanda, what is your test to try this week? So we also did a Passover dinner and an Easter dinner. So we had all the dinners, which was super fun. 

But my Toast to Joy is going to be to my mother-in-law Bonnie this week, because one thing that I think is interesting about marijuana is there are a lot of diseases you can't see, right? There are a lot of ailments where you can see and you know, this person is sick or this person is handicapped, this is why they just pulled into that spot. So hers is not like that. Hers can come on very suddenly with her. Which means you might see her pull into a handicapped spot and see her walk out and look perfectly normal and think “why is she in that spot?”

And it really opened my eyes to having her in my life and seeing how people react to that. You actually see people react. And the truth is I've also been with her where we pulled into that handicap spot and she walked out of that car feeling perfectly fine. And by the time we walked back, I had to carry her to the car by myself because she was that incapacitated and it came on that suddenly.

And so I would love to do my Toast to Joy to Bonnie because she has a strength that I haven't seen in any other woman in carrying a disease that is often invisible to people. But she carries it with her everywhere. And so I just would like to toast to her strength and I love her very much. So this is to my mother-in-law Bonnie.

Jasmine: You're so right about people being so judgmental because they don't know your whole story and feeling like you owe them some type of explanation, like, “why are you parking in that space?” I do not owe you an explanation! As long as I'm legally parked here, I do not have to explain to you how, just because I look “normal,” you know, or “able,” that does not mean that I don't need the accommodations that are here for me. But there's just so many people who are just so… mean. So I appreciate that.

Rachel: You can just let go of that. I mean, as someone who is often far more judgmental than I would like to be, but in the moment it might be my first reaction, you can just let it go and not care. It is such a freeing feeling. Just stop worrying about everyone else. I mean, it's really let it go. Like Elsa said.

Amanda: Yes! “Let it go…” All right, Jasmine, what is your Toast to Joy? 

Jasmine: All right, so speaking of “letting it go,” I let my son drive this week here for spring break and it was… interesting. So we started in the parking lot and drove around the parking lot for a good 30 minutes. And then the next day—

Amanda: How'd you do with it?

Jasmine: Oh, how did I? I was fine in the parking lot, except I was just like, “don't hit the curb. Don't hit the curb” 

Amanda: My mom drove with me with her head between her knees every time she drove with me when I was a teenager. 

Jasmine: Haha. So the second day, I let him drive through the neighborhood also very scary, but you know, I was like, he's gotta get used to driving on a real road. Parking lots are great for understanding the fundamentals of how a car works, but they're not realistic for driving on a real road. So I was like, all right, I will let him drive through the neighborhood. And we drove around my neighborhood like 10 times. And there was a point where he had to merge. There was a point where he had the whole like, oh, the light is turning yellow. Do you stop or do you go? 

We got a lot of experiences in, and he almost killed me when he was trying to make a right and he didn't quite make it in the lane and I thought we're going to hit a car head on. I was a little afraid then, but overall, he actually did a really good job. So he's catching on. I'm a proud mama. He's back with his dad now. So I hope he still gets to continue to practice, but for like three days, I think I gave him a really good head start on learning how to drive. So my Toast to Joy is to my almost 16 year old learning how to drive and to me being in one piece after all of that.

Rachel: I was really curious how you were going to wrap that up, if it was him driving or to you surviving? Or both?

Jasmine: Both! I am joyful for all of these things. 

Rachel: I remember the first time I drove, I made a turn and the next time I was making a turn, my dad was like, “so this time let's make the turn, like, on all four wheels and not just two.”

Jasmine: Yeah, we did have a two wheel turn at one point because we were going downhill and I was like, okay, the light is green, you can make the left, but don't slow down too much because there's cars behind us. I was like, don't come to a complete stop. And so he took that as like, don't slow down at all. And so we like whipped around the corner and I was like, oh my gosh. And Jayda was in the backseat for that one and she was like, “No!”

It was fun though. Looking back on it, it was like really fun. You know how it's like in hindsight, you're like, that was really scary, but like now I can laugh at it. That's, you know, that's the joy. 

All right. So thank you so much to everyone for joining us today and we'll see you again next week on another episode of The Suburban Women Problem.