Amanda Weinstein: Hi, everyone. Thanks for listening. I'm Amanda Weinstein.

Jasmine Clark: I’m Jasmine Clark.

Rachel Vindman: I'm Rachel Vindman.

Amanda: And you're listening to the Suburban Women Problem. Happy new year! We're currently between seasons one and two— just a reminder, season two will premiere on Wednesday, January 19th. So today we're going to flip the script and interview each other!

Rachel: I'm excited to hear what juicy stories you've been holding out on all this time. So let's start with you and me, Amanda.

Amanda: Oh, why thank you for having me on the Suburban Women Problem. I'm a big fan and also a huge problem for the Republican party.

Rachel: You grew up in a pretty conservative evangelical family. What was that like?

Amanda: So I felt like I grew up with a strong value system and a sense of purpose that was bigger than myself. So we had kind of, I don't know, very, I guess, structured, we ate dinner together every single night on New Year's was like the only time we went out to a restaurant and it was usually Red Lobster which I ended up working for. And it was still one of my weird favorite restaurants. So still love the Red Lobster. Shout out to Red Lobster!

We went to church every Sunday. I ended up teaching Sunday school. My mom thought I might eventually go into early childhood education. But I decided to super rebel and go into the military and study math instead.

Rachel: That's a pretty big difference between early childhood and math and the military. So out of everything you've done, what's your proudest accomplishment?

Amanda: It is definitely graduating from the air force academy. That was just a dream of mine for many, many years. Since middle school. And for me it was a big deal. No one else in my family had gone there. So that was a huge accomplishment for me.

Rachel: It's a very commendable accomplishment. And then after graduation, you incurred five years of service to pay back your education, so I think that not only is it a difficult four years, but then you are still in service to your country and thank you for that, by the way.

Amanda: Well, thank you.

Rachel: So what's the scariest moment in your career or your life?

Amanda: All right. So this is kind of silly, but it is one of the scariest. So Casey he was out of town one time, and I decided to watch the Exorcism of Emily Rose. I don't know why I watched that by myself in the house, but I did. And like the part, I know it's just… it was a bad, it was a bad move. But in this movie, like, you know, a demon is coming when like stuff shakes. So it freaked me out, I like went to my bedroom and I locked my door, you know, just in case.

Rachel: Demons cannot get through doors. Everyone knows this.

Amanda: I know. Not if they're locked, right? And I get in my bed and I kid you not the door knob started shaking. I am not kidding you. The door knob starts shaking. I literally, I literally cover myself with my blanket, cause that will also help— when you cover yourself with your blanket, the demons won't go, they won't look under there. And then I like peek out and it shakes again. And I think I almost wet myself and finally I look and my cat stuck its paws under the door and was shaking the door to try to get in. Cause I locked the door and I never do that and my cat wanted in.

Rachel: A lot of people think cats are demons. So actually I think makes sense. And what did you learn from this, Amanda, about the movie choices when your husband is out of town?

Amanda: I do think that was the last like horror movie I've seen. I don't think I've watched another one since then. And this was a number of years ago. I made poor choices. I make better choices now.

Rachel: What is your favorite thing about being a mom?

Amanda: So this is kind of a weird thing for me is I actually really like getting older. I got a few grays now and I love them. I'm one of my friends was like, “you can totally dye those.” And I was like, “no, I earned them. I want them here.” And I also love watching my kids get older. I don't long for the days when they were babies or when they were younger. I love them getting older.

Like I think it's fun to have these conversations and watch them become people. I love watching them process the world. So I took my oldest daughter to see Wicked and I loved hearing like what she thought about the characters and like hearing her talk about Glenda, like “she acts nice, but she isn't.” And I was like, “oh girl, that was a good observation.”

And then I took my younger daughter to see the Nutcracker and hearing her process what she thinks is going on in the Nutcracker was very... I mean, the Nutcracker, when you think about it's kind of like trippy. She's like, “who's this rat king, is he good or bad? Where they taking him?” And like, the people around us were just laughing as she asked probably 138 questions during the Nutcracker.

But I love watching my kids get older. It's so fun watching them become, you know, humans that are, you know, full adults. I love it.

Rachel: I agree. It is a really amazing thing. Okay. So the pandemic has been hard on all of us. But how have you grown for the better in the last two years?

Amanda: I think it has allowed me to sit down and think about where my passions really are and what drives me the most. And I think it is reaching out to people and, you know, getting good conversations out there about especially good economic policy. So that has been like kind of realizing that that is really where my passion is.

Rachel: Well, you're very good at it, I have to say you're very gifted and everyone should follow you on Twitter because you talk about things in a very relatable way. And you really want people to understand and I think that's great. 

Thanks for talking to me, thanks for telling us more about Amanda!

Amanda: That was so fun. After the break, Jasmine will come back so we can chat about her and her life.

BREAK

Amanda: So Jasmine, welcome back! You're a state rep in your home state of Georgia, you have a PhD in microbiology, you teach nursing, you’re a mom… you're a busy lady.

Jasmine: That pretty much sums up my life. In the middle of all that I actually do eat and sleep. And do some other things as well. But yes, I pretty much have my hands in a lot of different cookie jars, but yeah, I, you know, I do a lot.

Amanda: All right. Let's jump back in time to ten-year-old Jasmine, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Jasmine: So, when I was younger, so my dad is a doctor and I've always wanted to be a doctor, just like my dad. Not a PhD doctor, which I am now, but a medical doctor, like my dad. We would go sometimes when he was on call, we would like go to the hospital with him. And even though I had no idea what he was doing, like when he went, you know, in the back to do his rounds or whatever, I just knew that he was like a doctor and he was doing stuff and I could see it. So I really enjoyed just like watching his life and like all the different things he was doing. So I knew I wanted to be a doctor and I was a super science nerd, so everything kind of fit into place. And so I went into college thinking like, “oh yeah, I'm going to be a doctor when I grow up.”

Amanda: Very cool! Do you have a sliding doors moment, something where you can look back and think, “if I'd made a different choice, my life would be completely different”?

Jasmine: Yes. So I would say I have several sliding doors moments. One of my sliding doors moments was the moment I decided I was going to go into politics. I would definitely say that there are a million reasons to not go into politics and I have several reasons right here living in my home, but for this I really felt like it was something that I kind of should do and I felt compelled to do it.

And then all the stars aligned as far as like the person running in my district running unopposed. And so that is definitely my sliding doors moment, as far as how I got to where I am today, as far as being a state rep. And I often wonder what I would be doing if I had decided not to run for office.

Amanda: What would you be doing?

Jasmine: I'd probably be like, probably be trying to help other people get into office or registering voters or something like that. But yeah, I don't know. It's, it's really strange to try to like, rewind that and like see what other path that would have taken me down if I had not done what I did.

Amanda: Okay. So you talked about how crazy it is going to politics. So I want to hear from you, what's the worst part about campaigning?

Jasmine: Asking for money is the worst part. You know, it's just one of those necessary evils because you have to have money to run a robust campaign, right? People have to know who you are, and it's just not free to get your name out there. And so you have to ask for the money, but I have never, ever, ever, that's never been my strong suit my entire life, no matter what I'm doing. I am not really good at asking people for things. And so that part is tough.

Amanda: Yeah. I think that's hard for women because we're taught, you know, do it yourself. Don't ask and money is not something you polite ladies talk about. All right, but what's the best part of campaigning?

Jasmine: I would say talking to voters, I really, really enjoy meeting voters at their door. The surprise when I knock on someone's door and they answer the door and they're like, kind of skeptical, like, “who are you? And why are you knocking on my door?” 

And I hand them my, you know, my walk card or, you know, the thing that I hand to voters so they can know about me. And they look at the picture on it and they look at me and they're like, “wait, this is actually you!”

Amanda: All right, out of everything you've done, what's your proudest accomplishment?


Jasmine: Hm. I would say my proudest accomplishment is raising awesome kids. And I'm still doing it every day, so I'm still accomplishing it every day, but, you know, I really take pride in, you know, being a mom. I’ve got some awesome kids.

Amanda: I love it. And I love hearing your stories of Jada when she's like, “yeah, I'm going to be president.” And I'm like, “yes! Get it girl.”

Jasmine: Exactly. Exactly.

Amanda: All right. Last question. The pandemic has been hard on all of us, but how have you grown for the better in the last two years?

Jasmine: Hmm. I would say this pandemic really made me sit down and focus on things a lot more. I was always on the go. Honestly, I was always gone, always out of the house, always doing things, just on the go. And the pandemic has really like sat me down, but not only has the pandemic done that, I would say the other thing is that it has made me a lot more confident to talk about microbiology in public spaces. We needed those voices. And so I was really happy to be able to contribute that.

Amanda: That'll be great when you're campaigning again, because it's basically like the pandemic is this framing of like, “this is why you'd need Jasmine Clark in your state house. Like, let's make it very clear.” 

All right. Thank you, Jasmine. It was great to chat with you and it's fun getting to know you a little bit better!

Jasmine: All right. After the break, Rachel will come back and I'll get to interview her!

BREAK

Jasmine: Rachel. Are you ready for your interview? I'm really looking forward to talking to you today.

Rachel: I'm ready.

Jasmine: All right. So let's start with little Rachel. So you grew up in Oklahoma. What were you like as a kid? And what did you want to be when you grew up?

Rachel: Hmm, I was. You know, the person whose desk had to be next to the teacher because I talked too much and boy are those chickens coming home to roost with my daughter. Somewhere my parents are very delighted every time that I have this discussion with her, but you know, what did I want to be? I mean, I thought I would be a teacher because that's what my family did. They were all educators and that is what I studied. And that's probably what I saw myself doing now. Life's crazy. It takes lots of twists and turns.

Jasmine: I can totally see you as a teacher. Also. I completely empathize with the whole, like, getting bad marks for talking too much in school.

Rachel: But look at us now, we're like using it for good. Okay. So take that!

Jasmine: Some awesome people in this world got bad marks for talking too much. That's all I'm gonna say. All right. So do you have a sliding doors moment or something where you look back and think “if I had made a different choice, my life would be completely different”?

Rachel: I do. I think if I… so when I was 24, I moved to Israel and that changed my entire life. I think the second thing… my sliding doors moment, and it wasn't really a choice that I made, but if our daughter, Sarah, who was born in 2009, she was born very early at 24, little over 24 weeks gestation. And she lived a week. If she had lived, she probably would have been you know, pretty profoundly disabled in many ways. So that also would have been a tremendous, you know, difference to my life today. And, and so I think about that a lot as well, because Sarah was born at 24 weeks and not 25 weeks gestation when they automatically would have saved her life. We had to make the decision, do we want to resuscitate? And we obviously made that decision, but you know, what, if she had survived and she'd been profoundly disabled, and then that would have been the decision we made. And there were people after the fact that weren't in that room and, you know, weren't there with us who were kind of cautioning. And we were like, “well, the decision's already been made. So this is what we've done,” you know?

There's like this little saying from Mary Albright who I love— she has a little picture, whatever she draws, it's not a cartoon, but it's, it's, it's great. And it's like, “don't look back. You're not going that way.” And I always try to remember that in life. Like I'm not going that way. And I can't look back and regret those decisions that I made.

Jasmine: The windshield is bigger than the rear view mirror for a reason.

Rachel: Yeah. Love it.

Jasmine: So just curious, like what were you in Israel for? Like what brought you or took you to Israel?

Rachel: The short answer is I worked for the Southern Baptist convention for the International Mission Board. I was working with women in refugee camps. I worked in an office. I worked there were summer camps, so I did a lot of different things and that almost three years. Yeah. So that's the short answer of what I did. You know, it just really widened, obviously, my world view. I realized that people are more alike than they are different.

Jasmine: Yeah, it's really, really, really interesting. I always think it's interesting when people get a chance to leave the United States for whatever reason. I think that it is an eye-opening experience that really kind of changes people. Because I think that in America here we make everything to be so America-centric in like, “we are the best at everything.” And then when you kind of like leave and you go to other places, you see America has its pros and its cons, but like the world is really big. I love that you had that opportunity. All right. So out of everything that you've done, because you have done some amazing things, what is one of your proudest accomplishments?

Rachel: Staying married. Somehow this has come up a lot lately. I dunno, I've been talking about this a lot lately, but you know, marriage is work and I never judge anyone who doesn't stay married. And I think there are a lot of reasons why someone should not stay married. It really doesn't matter because everyone gets to make their own choices in life. So it's, it's immaterial, but—

Jasmine: And in social media land, like navigating relationships with social media, it is, it is tough, especially when like the whole world seems to be in your relationship or people put their relationships on social media and they only show like the shiny gleaming parts of their relationship. And it makes you wonder, like, “what am I doing wrong?”

Rachel: Yeah. I don’t know if Alex said this in his book, but he often tells people this— this might be why we don't get invited to a lot of weddings— but he says, the first six months of marriage, he wouldn't wish that on anyone.” It is. It is so hard inviting someone into your life, but having to make concessions.

Jasmine: Yeah, it really, really is. All right. So along with being an amazing wife, you are also an amazing mommy. So what is your favorite thing about being a mom?

Rachel: My favorite thing about being a mom is just the opportunity that I have to be a mom. It was a very long road for us. Before our daughter Sarah was born, I had many miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies all over the world. Literally my first was on Mother's Day, the first year we were married. And then I had an ectopic pregnancy in Moscow when we were actually there for my brother-in-law's wedding. And when we lived in Ukraine, I had one as well, and in Germany. And then with Sarah, with the loss of Sarah, that was obviously tremendously difficult. So when I was pregnant with Ellie, I was on bedrest nine weeks at home and nine weeks in the hospital. And it was Alex's first semester at Harvard for graduate school.

Jasmine: Oh, wow. 

Rachel: So I was alone a lot and I did have family that would come like basically every other week. So that was something to look forward to. And then when I was in the hospital it was a lot easier plus I was further along, so it was less scary because obviously the danger was that I would go into premature labor again. And they really, at that point, didn't know why I had I had Sarah so early. 

So, you know, I think I'm, I'm proud that I don't miss the forest for the trees. It's getting harder as she gets older. It was easier on that one when she was little. But I, I try to keep that in mind and I try to just enjoy all the stages again. Alex’s, advice is he wouldn't wish the first six months of marriage in anyone. And my advice for new parents is every stage, the good ones and the bad ones, they all end. So don't think you're a horrible parent, but also don't get too high on yourself and think you're a great parent because the stage where they eat all the green things ends too.

Jasmine: Yes, the stage where they love doing the dishes and love running the vacuum that goes away, it, it actually goes away.

Rachel: But we all have those moments where we're like, “oh my gosh, I am supermom. Look at this. Look at what's happening!” Nope! But you know, then the nights when they come in your room every night, cause they're scared… that ends too. And then you're like… the first couple of nights you like it. And then you're like, “they don't need me as much anymore and they're growing up.” So I think just getting through it, not being crazy neurotic is, is one of my favorite parts, but a shorter answer is that I think I'm really proud that I'm praising a little human who people like to be around.

Jasmine: Yes. I, I think that is a good goal. We even had a guest who talked about that, right, about like, you know, raising kids that are not assholes. And I think we're all doing a very good job. All right. So we talk all the time about small victories. You know, that's like my favorite thing to talk about because I have to celebrate them otherwise I don’t know, I'd probably curl up in a corner in the fetal position a lot. So what is your favorite small victory from this year?

Rachel: I think just being, finding my voice and using it more the victory is giving myself permission to do it. Finally.

Jasmine: What has been, I guess, the most rewarding thing about finding your voice, whether that be through this podcast or being through a contributor to the USA Today, like what, what would you say is the most rewarding part of all that?

Rachel: What we do on this podcast and how we elevate everyday women is what I find most rewarding. And probably what I'm most proud of about the podcast in general. I love talking to famous people, just like everyone else, or, you know, very accomplished women. And that's, that's amazing as well. But I really think… I did an interview last week and, I think where we fix this and where we, how we go forward is we, we do this on a grassroots level.

And that means having the conversations, which is something we always talk about just having the conversations. So it's been extremely rewarding for me to be able to amplify those voices. And to encourage myself and other women out there who in the midst of our busy days and everything that we going on, that we can find time to do it. And we can have give ourselves permission to let something slide so that we can devote an hour or two to something else and the world is not going to come crashing to an end if we leave some dishes in the sink overnight. I hope, I know I did, I guess, the pandemic has done that for me. And it's given me that perspective. I hope it's given other people that perspective as well. And that is what I found so rewarding, that permission.

Jasmine: Same!

Rachel: Okay, let's get an end back in here for our group rapid fire.

Amanda: Hi again, I can't wait to get to answer some rapid fire questions ourselves.

Rachel: Okay. Who would you want to be stranded with on a desert island?

Amanda: Casey of course, my husband. He's wonderful, but if we're eliminating him, then it would be like, Tina Fey. She's so funny.

Jasmine: I don't have favorites including favorite people, but I guess if I had to choose, I guess I could do like an Idris Elba and we could just like play out, like, you know, a scene from an island movie, he’s shirtless. So yes, Idris Elba. Rachel?

Rachel: So if I were stranded on a desert island with someone other than my husband, I would say someone really smart. And funny. So this is kind of weird because you guys might not know who he is, but Tim Miller, who is a former Republican comms person and he is writes for The Bulwark and he is often on MSNBC on Nicole Wallace. My grandma's like his biggest fan, but he's witty. He's funny. And hopefully his husband won't mind that I want to take him to a desert island with me.

Jasmine: Got it. All right. Next question. What fictional character would you most want as president.

Amanda: Oh, definitely Leslie Knope, she'd be great.

Rachel: I was thinking Atticus Finch, and I don't know why that just can't come to mind, but…

Amanda: I can see that!

Rachel: He's seen some things, he's been through some things, and I just, I picture also, I mean, I've obviously read the book, but I've seen the movie and Gregory Peck seems like commanding and presidential.

Jasmine: This one's really hard for me. I would, I think my instinct or like my impulse would be Leslie Knope, just off the top of my head, but yeah.

Amanda: Alright. What's your favorite song to sing at karaoke? Jasmine? We know you love karaoke.

Jasmine: Yes. Okay. If I were putting on a karaoke concert, because I've never done this before… “Proud Mary,” full-blown with backup dancers and dancing, and a lot of hair throwing around and Rolling on the River followed by Journey’s “Don't Stop Believing” with lots of air guitar. So those are my two. My top two, but I genuinely could put on a full, like hour long karaoke concert all by myself because I love karaoke that much. What about y'all?

Amanda: I don’t really do karaoke, but it would be if I did, it would be Martina McBride. Any Martina McBride song. I love singing to her… Independence Day is my favorite.

Rachel: So when we lived in Moscow, not only was our house bugged, obviously, but our car was as well.

Amanda: I do sing in the car.

Rachel: So I would often like take a song and dedicate it to the FSB, which is the security services. So I have kind of a whole playlist, but I'm “Stronger” by Kelly Clarkson comes to mind and “I Will Survive.” But during the impeachment process, every day we woke up and we would ask Alexa to play Tom Petty's “Won't Back Down.” And we started every day with that. But I do really love some Lizzo. So I could also do that.

Amanda: Oh yeah. Now I want Russia to create an album of songs by Rachel and release it as an album as something someone could buy.

Rachel: They probably have it. I don't know if they still have the tapes. Yeah. So what was your very first job?

Jasmine: Okay. So my first job was actually taking tickets at our whitewater, like a waterpark. It's like the Six Flags with the water side of it. Yeah. And it was the first job I ever had. It was a summer job, but we also had teachers working there as well because teachers around here needed like a summer job in order to survive. So we were like really like working alongside our teachers. It was this very strange dynamic. 

But then my next favorite job, which is a job that I don't even know exists anymore, was I was a photo lab technician, and I used to develop the pictures— you know, you would come bring me your film. And I used to have to like fiddle around in this…

Rachel: Did you see all the pictures?

Jasmine: I did. Every picture, I did every single picture. We looked at every single one.

Amanda: Oh man. What was the juiciest one?

Jasmine: We definitely had to, I mean, and I was like a teenager, so we definitely had some that I was like, “ooh, I don't know if I should be looking at this” because I don't think people realized we saw them. I think they just thought a machine… and like a machine did do it, but we had to check them. We had to go through and check them off.

Amanda: My students, they don't, some of them don't even know what a camera with film means. Like they don't understand film in a camera, like what they like, it's so interesting to hear. “They're like, I don't know what you're talking about.” I was like, “all right. Yeah. All right. I'm old.”

Jasmine: That's my children. They're like, “what is, what is film? What do you, what do you mean?”

Amanda: Yeah. So my first job, as I said, was that Red Lobster so that I could eat the Red Lobster food. No, I never got sick of it. I ate it every time I worked and I was a hostess. I was also a prep cook. What else. I guess a bus girl? But I was the one you first saw when you came in. I said, “welcome to Red Lobster. How many on your party? Would you like smoking or not smoking?” Also, we don't have that anymore either. 

Jasmine: Yes. That is not a question anymore.

Rachel: This is like a trip down memory lane. My first job was working at the concession stand at the little league park in Edmond, Oklahoma when I was 15.

Jasmine: That sounds fun. All right. So who was your first celebrity crush?

Amanda: Mine was Joey McIntyre from New Kids on the Block.

Jasmine: Okay. All right, Rachel!

Rachel: My first celebrity crush was Jake from Sixteen Candles.

Jasmine: My first celebrity crush was actually Larenz Tate from Love Jones.

Amanda: You could only pick one, which would it be a day on the slopes or a trip to the beach?

Jasmine: Oh, beach all day for me!

Rachel: I used to be a slopes girl, but then my husband really loves the beach and I went to the beach more and so I'm going to have to say beach.

Amanda: Yeah, mine's going to be, I've actually never been skiing. I've been snowboarding, but it's just not my thing.

Rachel: I like to ski, we skied often when I was growing up, but I would still say beach now. So what's your favorite eighties movie?

Amanda: I’m not good with decades. I get decades confused. I don't know if that is a thing, but mine is Troop Beverly Hills. I loved that movie. I have actually watched it since the eighties. I still love it.

Rachel: That's a great one.

Jasmine: I don't know. I'm really bad about decades too. Cause everything is all a blur. I just feel like things happened in the 1900s. They all feel like it's all a blur now. I don't know, is the Goonies eighties?

Rachel: Yeah!

Jasmine: I liked that movie.

Rachel: Mine is Baby Boom.

Amanda: I love Baby Boom! That is another one of my favorites!

Rachel: It’s my favorite movie. It's really, really my favorite.

Jasmine: All right. So now that we're out of the eighties, let's jump into the later 1900s. What is your favorite nineties TV show?

Amanda: Mine is Friends.

Rachel: Law and Order! I seriously, I loved Law and Order.

Jasmine: Law and Order was good!

Rachel: Seriously all of them, like all the detectives in the original Law and Order.

Jasmine: I would have to say for me Family Matters.

Amanda: I love Family Matters!

Jasmine: Yeah, that show was like, oh, I've seen all of them. Oh my gosh. I love that show. I could probably binge watch Family Matters right now. That show was awesome.

Amanda: I use a Family Matters clip in my class about there's one, a Christmas one where they couldn't find, I think they called it Freddie Teddy, but it was like after Teddy Ruxpin. And we use that to talk about monopolists—this is going to get real boring real fast—about what companies actually do with monopolistic competition with the Freddie Teddy.

Alright, this podcast is produced by Red Wine & Blue. So let's end on this. What's your favorite wine?

Jasmine: I love all wine. I am, I used to be really big into like Riesling and like white wines, but then I had a friend who was like really big into red wine and they drank red wine with everything.

Rachel: What a rebel!

Jasmine: I know. So I started drinking reds more and I think out of the reds, I love cabs.

Amanda: Same. In the winter I like my reds a lot. Like in the evening, a glass of red, I call it my RBG glass of wine every night. And in the summer I like whites. Although when we're out, I do like to start with a Prosecco if I'm going to have more than one.

Jasmine: Nice!

Rachel: I'm not much of a drinker, actually. I pretty rarely drink.

Amanda: I'll make up for you, Rachel.

Jasmine: I’ll have your glass!

Rachel: Thank you. I appreciate it. There was like this troll harassing me recently that kept talking about how much I drink. And I was like “yeah, actually I don't drink.” But I do like Pinot Grigio and I will have that if that's probably my wine of choice.

Amanda: All right. Well, this was a lot of fun getting to know you ladies and hearing these rapid fire questions was my favorite. So thanks again for listening to this special fun episode of the podcast. And we'll see you in two weeks for the premium of season two.

Rachel: I'll be talking to Soledad O'Brien and I'm very excited.

Amanda: Be sure to tune in Wednesday, January 19th for a brand new episode of the Suburban Women Problem. See you then!