Two Cops One Donut
We were asked “what exactly is the point of this show?”Answer: social media is an underutilized tool by police. Not just police, but firefighters, DA’s, nurses, military, ambulance, teachers; front liners. This show is designed to reveal the full potential of true communication through long discussion format. This will give a voice to these professions that often go unheard from those that do it. Furthermore, it’s designed to show authentic and genuine response; rather than the tiresome “look, cops petting puppies” approach. We are avoiding the sound bite narrative so the first responders and those associated can give fully articulated thought. The idea is the viewers both inside and outside these career fields can gain realistic and genuine perspective to make informed opinions on the content. Overall folks, we want to earn your respect, help create the change you want and need together through all channels of the criminal justice system and those that directly impact it. This comes from the heart with nothing but positive intentions. That is what this show is about. Disclaimer: The views shared by this podcast, the hosts, and/or the guests do not in anyway reflect their employer or the policies of their employer. Any views shared or content of this podcast is of their opinion and not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything. 2 Cops 1 Donut is not responsible and does not verify for accuracy any of the information contained in the podcast series available for listening on this site or for watching shared on this site or others. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services.
Two Cops One Donut
Revolutionizing Police Training: Insights and Humor with Dennis Benigno of Street Cop Training
Dennis Benigno, the mastermind behind Street Cop Training, takes us on an enlightening journey through his dynamic career in law enforcement. From his humble beginnings as a corrections officer in New Jersey to becoming a US Park Police officer in Washington, DC, Dennis offers a unique window into the often unseen realities of police work. His candid reflections on the highs and lows of his career, the driving force behind his passion for better police training, and the humorous backstory of our podcast's name, "Two Cops, One Donut," provide both depth and levity to our conversation.
We explore the diverse experiences of policing in communities from Flint, Michigan, to Houston, Texas, revealing the complexities of economic disparities and cultural diversity in law enforcement. Dennis shares how his military service and upbringing influenced his career trajectory, ultimately inspiring him to revolutionize police training. Our discussion doesn't shy away from the tough topics, tackling the financial challenges faced by officers across different states and the evolving issues surrounding qualified immunity.
Through Dennis's insights, we examine the pressing need for modernized police training, advocating for practical skills like jiu-jitsu and continuous skill development. The conversation also highlights the importance of camaraderie, peer recognition, and the emotional bonds formed within the force. As we wrap up, we invite you to join us at an upcoming law enforcement conference in Nashville, promising an event filled with engaging topics and groundbreaking collaborations aimed at transforming police training and supporting officers in their critical roles.
#streetcop #streetcoptraining #police #training #education #cops #lawenforcement
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Coming up next on Two Cops, One Donut.
Speaker 2:So my name is Dennis Bonino. I am the owner and founder of Street Cop Training. I started my career actually in New Jersey at the age of 19. As a corrections officer I did that for about two years. I thought I'd be there for three days and I ended up being there for two years. Then I moved on to I was taking tests like crazy, became a cop in Washington DC for the US Park Police. I was taking tests like crazy, became a cop in Washington DC for the US Park Police. As soon as we got out of the academy I was just happy to be out of jail. But as soon as we got out of the academy I was like, oh, this place is bad, like I don't mean the city itself, like the agency was basically like this ship they were trying to bail water out of constantly.
Speaker 1:And so I wanted. I knew that I had to leave quickly. As a matter of fact, half my class left in the first two years, provided by guests is of their own volition and listeners are encouraged to form their own opinions. Furthermore, some content is graphic and has harsh language, viewer discretion advised and is intended for mature audiences. Two cops, one donut and its host do not accept any liability for statements or actions taken by guests. Thank you for listening. All right, welcome back. I'm your host, eric Levine. Two Cops, one Donut. I got with me Dennis, and I'm not going to butcher your last name. I want to say Manigault, but I'm not going to, you butchered it.
Speaker 2:If you said I don't want to butcher your last name, wouldn't you just follow up with, like, how do you pronounce it? But instead you just butchered it anyway it anyway. Yeah, it's more fun that way fair enough, say it hold on, I'm gonna. I'm gonna adjust my camera real fast, is that okay?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's cool, we got time. I'm I am getting a little bit of. I can kind of hear myself in the background of uh, whatever your speaker system is there. That's's why I wear headphones like a professional. Is that better? Can you hear me? Hello, that's better. Yes, yep, I can hear you and I'm not hearing myself, so that's even better. I like it. I like it. Nope, now I can hear myself again.
Speaker 2:Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:And we will be back. Well, I'll be here. We'll see if he comes back, because right now I'm just going to drop some sponsor names, like Ghost Patch. Make sure you guys go to GhostPatchCustomscom and get all of your needs for, like coins and you know, shoulder patches and embroidery patches I think they're called PVC, like the rubbery patches. Embroidery patches I think they're called PVC, like the rubbery patches, stuff like that. You can now get real metal badges from them. We have one that we are going to be actually selling. We did sell a couple and you'll be able to get those on their website. How about now? And let's test to see if you can hear me? I can hear you. Can you hear me? I can hear you. How's?
Speaker 2:your record. I'm trying to see if I can hear an echo.
Speaker 1:No, I don't think I can. Okay, I think we figured it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the guy who's not technologically savvy. You offered no fucking options and I'm going to rip my face off.
Speaker 1:There we go, you look. You know you're a beautiful looking man. I think you got everything tuned in just fine, sir, that camera is doing you justice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm a good looking man, thank you. I got a one to ten. I'm probably about, I would say comfortably, an eight, but maybe in like Brazil, like a nine and a half.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fair. That's fair, Um, do you got cauliflower ear on either year?
Speaker 2:No, I don't fight like that, that'll make you a 10 chicks.
Speaker 1:Chicks did cauliflower year.
Speaker 2:No question about it, but I have really good game.
Speaker 1:Oh, um, I've been with the same girl since seventh grade, so I have no game zero. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:Tell me you're primed for a divorce. I mean, tell me you're not primed for a divorce.
Speaker 1:Nope, not at all. We actually just bought what I consider our final house.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's good. Is it a mausoleum?
Speaker 1:Ooh, that's a good question. I wouldn't mind being buried here for as much as we paid.
Speaker 2:Where are you located?
Speaker 1:I am in the DFW of Texas, sir.
Speaker 2:Oh nice, dude. Let me ask you this the show's called two cops, one donut. Who's the second cop?
Speaker 1:Uh, okay, so I'll give you the backstory on that. Um, the the show two bears, one cave. You ever heard of that one Show? Two Bears, one Cave you ever heard of that? One? A comedian show.
Speaker 2:Tom Segura and Burt.
Speaker 1:Kreischer, bro, of course. Okay, so you know those guys. I kind of jacked the name from them. You know two bears, they're two big hairy dudes in their man cave doing a podcast, fair enough. And so I was like, well, I am physically two cops.
Speaker 1:I am a military police officer, still for the Air Force, I'm with the 802nd Security Forces and I am a civilian cop I don't say where on the show. I keep them separate because, as you know, we can easily be shit-canned. I am still currently a police officer, so I am two cops and obviously cops and donuts go together. And then later on, after I'd done like three or four episodes, somebody that I work with was like, hey, bro, like two girls, one cup. I was like, oh shit, that wasn't the intent. But I do officially have a second cop now this is more recent within the last few months and that's Banning Sweatland, who is a deputy out of North Texas and he is that's his real name, by the way banning sweat land. So it's pretty cool, pretty cool name for a deputy. But yeah, he's my other cop.
Speaker 2:So, dude, I've never heard of somebody named banning. Where does that come from?
Speaker 1:I don't know either. I the only thing.
Speaker 2:I can remember.
Speaker 1:Do you remember Johnny quest, the cartoon? I do remember johnny quest the cartoon I do. Yeah, that banning was the the guy's name on there his parents do a lot of mescaline. I don't it's a badass show. Remember the music at the beginning. Get y'all fucking jazzed up like how old are?
Speaker 2:you 42 you're old enough to know that stuff. How old are you? I'll be 43 this month. Oh, so the same age.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, brother, 1981, baby, that's not. We're gonna have a good time, um, okay. So for those that don't know, um, dennis, I, I don't know this personally. Are you still a police officer? I am not, okay. So the way the format of this show goes is we we kind ofize first I want to know who you are, where you're from, why you got into a life of service, and then we'll get into like whatever it was you specialized in in law enforcement and then where you are today. So the whole idea is we get to educate people a little bit, bridge the gap through education, we humanize and we go down little rabbit holes and stories and stuff like that. We can talk about street cops and whatnot if that's something you're open to. If not, then we'll just go down.
Speaker 2:Can we call the real company name of Street Cop?
Speaker 1:Street Cop, not Street Cops, that's right.
Speaker 2:Okay, my bad Street Cops is a group of people right now working together to achieve a law enforcement objective.
Speaker 1:Fair, that's fair. My bad, my bad, damn why you got to jump on me. Come on, man.
Speaker 2:So my name is Dennis Bonino. I am the owner and founder of Street Cop Training. I started my career actually in New Jersey at the age of 19 as a corrections officer. I did that for about two years. I thought I'd be there for three days officer. I did that for about two years. I thought I'd be there for three days and I ended up being there for two years. Then I moved on to I was taking tests like crazy, became a cop in Washington DC for the US Park Police.
Speaker 2:As soon as we got out of the academy I was just happy to be out of jail. But as soon as we got out of the academy I was like, oh, this place is bad, like I don't mean the city itself, like the agency was basically like this ship they were trying to bail water out of constantly and so I wanted I knew that I had to leave quickly. As a matter of fact, half my class left in the first two years Got a job with my agency. My final agency where I worked had to go three police academies, unfortunately, and the academies in New Jersey at the time and I think still are. They suck. They're very paramilitary.
Speaker 2:I have a whole opinion about that I don't think it's necessary, contrary to what people like about the romance of police academies. But that sucked and then I did 14 years total, got injured in the line of duty and subsequently medically retired. A couple of years before that I started a company called Street Cop Training. People ask why I started it? Because I cared and I was extremely frustrated with the fact that nobody was helping police officers do their jobs and they were doing them so badly with good intent, but just so badly that I thought I could help, and turns out I can.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what got you into police work to begin with, like you went into corrections or whatever it was. Did you have family members in? Was there somebody that inspired you to get in? Was there some sort of tragedy, trauma that made you do it?
Speaker 2:I was just picked on in high school and I want to be a bully, and so I've been told that by a lot of people so you might find my yearbook and learn that I was the class clown and probably the most popular kid in the school, but that's not true.
Speaker 2:I was a bully. I wanted you know and, honestly, dude, maybe it's just quite the opposite I actually hated bullies so much and I hated that people were helpless and I always thought like there should be those that step up and have the bravery to protect others. That's really what I was motivated for. Plus, I'm also a complete attention deficit disorder, lunatic and an adrenaline junkie at its core, and so that was a job that satisfied those needs for me. Like, the more dangerous and insane the more I'm in. There was like a saying my kids asked me that day. I was like they're like what were you like as a kid? I'm like. Basically, people said, oh, dennis will do it. That's kind of like whatever there was something that somebody wouldn't do, I would do it. I wasn't afraid and I enjoyed the insanity.
Speaker 1:You didn't even have to get to the double dog dare, you were just on it.
Speaker 2:Hey, dude, I came up with them and you didn't have to dare, I was just. I invented them myself. I just came up with these ideas. I'm like I'll do that shit and make everybody laugh, and that's what I did.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, I was never scared, never scared.
Speaker 2:What year did you get in 2001.
Speaker 1:Okay, so damn you got on during nine 11. Was it before?
Speaker 2:It was 10, nine oh one, as a lot of recruits were being taken out of the academies and sent to ground zero to sort through the rubble. So I pretty much assumed that within a couple weeks we would also be at ground zero sorting through the rubble, because it was a big cleanup. But we weren't. We never got sent there.
Speaker 1:Okay, sorry, I got distracted.
Speaker 2:Did the Gay Porn hub come up again for you?
Speaker 1:unfortunately, they won't leave me alone. You buy one subscription one time and cancel, and they keep coming after you. So, uh, okay, now new jersey and new york are right by each other. I'm trying to figure out, like population wise, in the area that you were a cop, or in corrections, like how many were they housing when you first started corrections?
Speaker 2:14 of 1400. I don't know how many housing units there were, but it was one cop for every 46 inmates and max security 48 inmates 48.
Speaker 2:So I was one. It was direct supervision and I worked. There was four significantly dangerous housing units and I worked it. Actually, as a matter of fact, they tried to take me out of it, like later on in my career when they started realizing I was a very competent human being, not just a kid who was 20, they wanted to put me down into like the minimum security places, cause it was like a break right, like you would have a second officer to work with this. I think those house 128 inmates a piece. We had two cops in there and I actually went to the boss and I said can you just put me back in where I belong, like I get there's freedom down, like that, but I can't tolerate these kids down here. I need to be with the real criminals, because I got a real good understanding and they got an understanding of me and there's an equal amount of respect up there. I was not somebody who came in there and wanted to give everybody a hard time. We had mutual respect for each other. Um, I didn't talk to them like they were pieces of shit and I kept a nice, orderly place.
Speaker 2:Matter of fact, one time I went on vacation I banged out sick too, from cancun, and I came back and I looked at my housing sheet half my fucking housing unit was gone. I was like gone for a week and this like never happens. These are maximum security. 25, 27 fucking murderers in the place, right like these are. These are some real dudes. Everybody from my unit's going to prison for a very long time. And so I came back and I walk in. I never forget saying to like I shift started at two o'clock. I walked in. I'm whoever's left. I'm like what the fuck happened here? And they're like, dude, there's a lot of beef here, um, and I'm like, they're like, and we didn't want to do it while you were here. We knew you're going on vacation, so we all waited, we all agreed to wait till you left to do it. And I'm like they're like, that's how much they respect it. And I was a kid, I was 20, 21 years old yeah and I was like damn.
Speaker 2:but like, and I have a good other housing. He he's like yo, what? What happened? Like ah, we had to squash his beef with this guy here, this guy you know, they didn't talk like that, cause I'm talking like my gangster from, from, uh, from good fellas. But yeah, man, like everybody fought. I was like where did these guys go? Like father and son like yeah, they fought too.
Speaker 1:They had to get it out, but nobody similar to working you know one of the shittiest beats out there. Hey y'all, eric Levine, two cops, one donut. I'm out here currently on my military time and I thought I'd take a second to kind of give a shout out to my sponsor, peregrine. I've roughly got about 18 years of law enforcement under my belt and I've seen a lot of really cool advancements in law enforcement. The biggest advancements in law enforcement I think are like fingerprints law enforcement I think are like fingerprints, dna testing and then, more recently I would say, license plate readers. Those things have all changed the game in law enforcement and now I think Peregrine is on that level that's going to change it up. But I've had people ask me what is Peregrine and I want to talk about that. Now there's a caveat to it. Peregrine is so in depth I'm only going to talk about one small feature that it's able to do, because I can't fit everything that they do in one little ad. All right, I'm going to take you on a little mental journey.
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Speaker 1:This is just the tip of the iceberg and all I wanted to do with it is tease you guys enough just to seek out more information. So please reach out to me personally, dm me, or reach out to Peregrineio and just tell them that Eric Levine from Two Cops, one Donut sent you. I don't endorse things I don't believe in and I would stake my reputation on their product. Please check them out, because I know it's going to change law enforcement. We were talking about the number of people you had in your pods. We were talking about the number of people you had in your pods 1400,.
Speaker 1:You'd gotten back from Cancun and they had moved everybody out, and I think I was just about to add, or I was making the analogy, that it's just like working, kind of like the shithead beats. You know, nobody wants to work those, except for the sick individuals like you and I who kind of feel I always felt more comfortable there and had a better relationship. And when they would try to move me out of my beat I was like no, I want to stay here, where you'd see, the ones that were about that life, they would want to stay in those beats, but the ones that weren't were doing everything they could to escape that beat and get to what we would call the more laid back beats, where they didn't have to take as many calls or do as much police work and keep as many relationships up. I also find that some of the officers that have maybe some issues tend to want to stay in those beats as well, but the community doesn't want them there. Have you seen that?
Speaker 2:I didn't work. So, like when I worked as a police officer, we were a lower middle class town 26 square miles, 130,000 residents, 350,000 people during the day, uh, with commuter traffic and all that commerce going on. So we didn't have like those areas. People knew who we were because we're still 200 guys and girls out there, uh, probably, I think 90 or 95 in patrol. We were still guys and girls out there. So people like it's still a small town feels weird as that sounds, with that many people. But we didn't have areas like where we were like walking house to house and essentially, like you know, knowing the hood, because it really wasn't like that, you know, wasn't. It wasn't a place where it was everything. I mean there was problematic areas, but not like the way that I think you're describing it.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, we uh. Where I'm at right now is well over a million population, so it's definitely got got its four seasons of areas. It's crazy. You got real rich area to the poorest of poor middle class, all that stuff. You know country boys, vaquero, you know Mexican cowboys, it's just, it's crazy how diverse it is out here, Did you grow up in Texas. No, I grew up in Flint, Michigan.
Speaker 2:Ooh yeah, what made you move there For the water?
Speaker 1:I grew up in Flint, michigan. Sir. That's fine, awesome dude. No, joining the military kind of Flint's like the matrix you don't know, you're in it when, that's all you know, until you get out.
Speaker 1:And then when I got out of Flint from the military it kind of opened my eyes. I'm like, oh my God, like look at these cities that are out here. They're flourishing, they don't have condemned buildings everywhere, they don't have constant street problems with potholes and businesses that never make it more than a couple years at best, businesses that never make it more than a couple years at best. It was just, you know, it was always on a downhill spiral from where I was at and you know all the GM shops and GMC, cadillac, all of them just closing down left and right. My whole life that's all I knew was just closing up shop.
Speaker 1:So joining the military opened up my eyes and I was able to get out of the matrix, so to speak, and seeing the light. And when I went to Texas for boot and all of that, I was like man, this state just has, like, everywhere you go, everybody was growing and you could kind of pick and choose what you wanted your area to be like. So you know, going to Houston, going to San Antonio, austin, dallas, fort Worth, all these different areas is just a different flavor each place, and so I just really fell in love with it. The police get paid here. They did not get paid. I was a cop up in Saginaw, michigan, making like 14 something an hour, um, when I first got out of active duty and I was like that walmart managers make this much out here, so switched up.
Speaker 2:You think cops get paid in texas. You got to see what the contracts are settling for in new jersey.
Speaker 1:You'll fucking fall off your chair well, it just depends on what the cost of living is like. Like. I bought my house in 2012 for like 140 grand 2 000 square feet.
Speaker 2:What would you buy? What would you pay for it? Now that 2012 years ago, this makes no difference right.
Speaker 1:Well, but I'm saying that's. What drew me out here was the cost of living was okay, but now the same house is going to cost you about 350 to 400 yeah, so it's significantly changed.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, cost of living in New Jersey is expensive in the sense that taxes are high. I feel like the cost of everything is similar across the board outside of your property taxes, and property itself is very expensive. Yeah, but everything else appears to be the same as it is in Texas or Alabama or Florida or whatever, whatever. So yeah, but the contracts here, oh, they're settling now between like 160 and 190 for patrolman damn base pay that's crazy, crazy money.
Speaker 1:But you know, I hope it goes the distance out there. Uh, what we're getting paid out here. Like I, I'm happy with it. I would I like more.
Speaker 2:I'm sure I'd always like more, but yeah, but you got to understand something Nobody who is a police officer, and solely a police officer, will ever be wealthy financially. It's impossible.
Speaker 1:Oh true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't care if you're the fucking. Well, he got a $200,000 retirement and he's making $312,000 as a director. Like, oh, okay, you're still not rich. Just so we're clear. Like you're okay, but like I have friends that made 15 million dollars last month.
Speaker 1:I'm not even kidding you.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, yeah yeah, and I'm making that up right like that's real shit. So when you talk about perspective I'm not downplaying, yeah just don't get into the idea that you're gonna make a lot of money as a cop. It's, it's literally impossible yeah, I just.
Speaker 1:I guess it depends on what you look at is a lot of money, yeah, I'm just talking.
Speaker 2:I'm not talking about, yeah. I'm not talking about, like, what your perspective is, yeah, how well you are. I'm not measuring happiness. I'm talking about dollars. Yeah, you will never be rich. I don't care who the fuck you work for being a cop.
Speaker 1:It's impossible true even when you're the top dog, even when you don't matter, dude, I don't care if you're making 400 000 a year as a cop, you're not rich.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. You're better than a lot of people, but you're not rich. Top one percent, I think.
Speaker 1:It just came out like 798 plus uh a year wow, and you know, podcasting it'll make you rich not, you are in podcasting if you're joe rogan, you make that money make a lot of money in podcasting, yeah but if you're Eric Levine, you're not making shit, so okay. So I want to get into you being 19 years old and thinking you had any business working in a prison.
Speaker 2:I didn't have any direction. I turned 20 in the academy and all I knew was I wanted to be a cop and I found out that you didn't need college and you'll be was 18 years old, very, very hard state to become a cop in. So when you took the civil service test, whatever came up you were lucky enough to get and you took and like even corrections, had hundreds and hundreds of people lined up out the door to take the job. Uh, but they, you know, talk about turnover. I mean people leave corrections a lot, a lot, a lot. It's a very, very difficult job. It is the worst job I ever had in my life and I was good at it. I just it was the worst job for a guy like me. It did not fit me one bit whatsoever. And don't let people tell you like people was like, oh, I was about starting corrections. I'm like don't, there's no reason to. You, don't need to. Oh, I heard it makes you a corrections. I'm like don't, there's no reason to.
Speaker 1:You, don't need to oh, I heard it makes you a better cop. I'm like, no, it doesn't. I was going to get to this point. I'm glad that you said it first. I get so sick of that. It'll make you a better cop. I'm like why?
Speaker 2:Because you're always dealing with the most hardened criminals in the street hurt, right, but like the best cops I know were, there wasn't this this correlation to essentially. You know, because they were corrections officer, they were great cops. Yeah, cops are great cops, they just get made, they're just. They're just a different breed of people. I would argue that they're probably 5% of the cops that there are great cops.
Speaker 1:So when you were working in the correction system, what was the training like? Just to take your spot and be on your own?
Speaker 2:there was no training there was no training no, you got a radio set of keys and we didn't. We didn't pepper spray, you had a pair of handcuffs, that was it holy, is it still the same way? I have no idea, dude, but like there was, like you know, I went to three academies. You went to, you go one or two academies two, actually three if you count the military's academy so you learn nothing there and they, they taught you nothing there.
Speaker 2:So it was, it was horrific. I think you got, like they called it, post exposure, to get two days to sit in with somebody that you're on your own no shit and use nothing to learn in two days.
Speaker 2:You literally sit at a desk all day, yeah right, and like people come up, you're like, no, no, right, like, and you're a good kid working with fucking horrible people and of society, um, and nobody tells you're a good kid working with fucking horrible people of society and nobody tells you like good doesn't know bad, right, you think you're being nice as a human being and you can't. That's almost like a place where you have to put a complete different personality on when you go in. It's 100% different than being a cop, there's no question about it. Very different job.
Speaker 1:So how hard was it to separate the personality that you had to keep at work versus when you got home?
Speaker 2:It was easy, dude.
Speaker 1:Easy, easy switch.
Speaker 2:That's it, just went in, had to be this other person Even when I was a cop. I had to be a different person. When I was a cop because I'll tell you a quick story I went to a bar you know no-transcript that I knew very well. I was at my friend's brother's death. I did cpr on him like I like there's a lot of things that got very personal for me there. I locked people up at domestics, shoplifting people that you know, people that I knew were shoplifting dwis, rapes like crazy people I knew. Anywho, uh, what was the question?
Speaker 1:Switching being your personality, going back and forth.
Speaker 2:Yes, I remember going to a barbecue at my friend's now wife's her house in her backyard and people knew me as like the fun dude and you know, obviously I said I was a class clown and all that shit Lighthearted, never angry. And I came to the backyard and like I was like I came there to eat. You know how we go with the cops and food right. So I knew they were cooking burgers and hot dogs. I'm like, oh, I got free dinner. This is fucking fantastic, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So I went to the backyard, I was having hamburgers and hot dogs and somebody said to me like yo, you're like kind of weird right now. Like why are you so like uptight? And I'm like bro, I the next two hours I might be in a shootout in 10 seconds. So I had to put that facade on. It wasn't like I was trying to pretend to be somebody who I wasn't. I just take it very seriously. Because it was that serious. We went from zero to holy shit in fucking at the drop of a hat. You know it. Just, it just happens and you got to be on your fucking game yeah, and and where you were located.
Speaker 1:what were the surrounding, because that's a that's a pretty significant size population? Were you surrounded by big cities as well, or was it all?
Speaker 2:about 20 minutes south of Newark, which, if you watch any show on how, where people get killed and carjacked, it's Newark, new Jersey, ok, so 20 minutes isn't too far for Newark to come down and start. I mean, we dealt with a lot of people from Newark, so Newark, elizabeth, linden, new Jersey Irvington, these are very, very, very, very tough areas.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I was going to say I said the spillage coming from the other cities I bet was significant as well.
Speaker 2:Significant. They murdered people. And then, on top of that, we were right across the outer bridge from Staten Island, and so New Yorkers preyed on us like Brooklyn, staten Island oh my God, because we had so much commerce, we had so many big box stores and all that shit we just got, because all they had to do was do their thing hit the fucking bridge and they were gone. New York plates. The investigation almost ended if it wasn't anything serious. Right, they're gone, they're in New York. It's a wrap, it's a wrap. And so we dealt with a lot of new yorkers preying on us as uh, as well, a lot of new york, and most of that was like credit card fraud, identity fraud, shoplifting a lot of new yorkers doing that now, when you were in the jails, and or was it prisoner jail?
Speaker 1:it was a county jail county jail, okay, so when you're in there and you're dealing with, you know your regulars and stuff that frequent flyers are, some that you know are going to be put away for a long time. You're 19, 20 years old. Um, how hard did they try to manipulate you and did it ever work? Or what was your? Oh yeah, what was your strategy to shut that down when you first started?
Speaker 2:you know, honestly, what happened was they pushed me to my fucking limit because I was being taken advantage of so much in my first couple weeks that I literally screamed like I just like lost my fucking shit and they all started listening and then, you know, you dial that in a little bit like nobody was there to help me. As a matter of fact, the guys that I worked with were were kind of talking shit about me behind my back. Nobody was here, nobody was helping me. Typical and like I said this. But you know what's crazy? I remember I always think about this.
Speaker 2:This guy went to the academy. His uncle was a fucking CO and he was like a hallway dude, so he was well-known, well-respected. And this motherfucker who was a fucking, basically kind of special, he got sent down and he had a partner for his entire career. The two years that I was there he was down in the fucking in the, in the housing projects they call them the projects there. He was down in the projects with a partner. So he was working with a 20-year veteran. Nobody ever talked shit to the veterans, so like he got a. I remember him saying things like oh, I heard you're soft, I heard you're soft as shaman. I'm like this motherfucker he is down here.
Speaker 2:I'm by my own in a shark tank and you know I just had to figure it out. It took me about three weeks to figure it out and once I figured it out, like you, have to continue to figure it out, dude, and learn a lot about what the mentality was, how respect worked back and forth and you develop relationships with people. There's nothing you can do. You're in a fucking box for 8 to 16 hours a day with the same 48 human beings five days a week, sometimes six days a week. So you're, you're there with them, you're creating relationships with them, there's mutual respect and they expect you to like dude.
Speaker 2:It it was just, it was, um, I just remember the worst thing was it was a beautiful day outside and I remember driving to work. I had a Mustang GT convertible, but a but a but a box style, not not the Fox body, the regular box and like the like the vanilla ice one. Right, I always wanted that car, so I had it and it was red with a black top and I was like cruising down the turnpike going to work. It was beautiful, it was like 81 degrees. I remember seeing like these three girls and they just kept going towards the beach and I was going to a jail, and yeah, it was. That's. I remember, just never forget like how miserable that was to go on, like a perfect 81 degree weather day, to have to go sit into a fucking cell basically inside of a jail with almost no sunlight, for the next eight hours, two to ten right like nasty a smell you can't describe to anybody.
Speaker 1:That's like a beautiful day and you fucking made it horrible yeah, yeah now that I've never worked in a civilian um jail, prison, um, but I did in the military. I worked in corrections for about a year and that was my mentality was like I'm in jail too, I'm in jail too, like I'm you know. We housed about 16 to 20. It wasn't anything major, but we're the only facility for the Upper West Coast. At the time I was stationed in Montana, so we got a lot of transfers and stuff and surprisingly, there's a lot of people that commit crimes constantly in the military. That surprised me. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:And working in the corrections, like counting and just it's the same fucking thing over and over and over. A lot different though in military jail like they have to be respectful, they can't curse, they got, they got to walk on a line, they I mean it's it's like bootcamp on steroids. It's really what it's like. So much different mentality than civilian jails where you guys had it even worse. And then, you know, all I can think of is my police career going to the jail, dropping off a bad guy and even just walking up there. I'm like I got to deal with the smell it's going to reek when I get in there. I got to write my report, deal with the funk, and you was living in it like daily for hours like shit. So what advice do you give to anybody that is considering going into corrections?
Speaker 2:You know, if that's what you want to do, it's perfectly respectable. I have an ungodly amount of respect for the men and women that actually show up and do that job. If your end game is to become a police officer, you don't need to start corrections. Just wait, be more patient and and go do. Police work, especially right now, is not. It has never been easier in this country to be a cop than it has at this moment. I mean literally. My friends who are chiefs are like we have to. We have to. Like negotiate. They come in negotiating on the things that they want. Like it's not. Like like we're. Like they're interviewing us to see if we have the things that they're looking for. Like times have changed man.
Speaker 1:Like it just isn't what it once was yeah, who the fuck wants to be a cop? Now you're talking about getting rid of qualified immunity. You're talking about defund the police in places, which they've I think most of those places have, you know, backtracked on that whole mentality. But you got nypd that they're talking, that they've got rid of I'm using air quotes for those that just listen to this but got rid of qualified immunity. They can't, um, they think they can, they think they got more power than what they got on their city council.
Speaker 2:But interestingly enough, like people don't realize that qualified immunity is almost a farce and it's almost never used, so it actually has no impact. It's just a political fucking ruse. So you, you, if you actually look at qualified immunity, it's only a few times in the history of this country that it's actually been applied yeah, you, I mean, and and the argument that I try to make to people, I was like it's not, like it's just automatically given.
Speaker 1:You have to qualify for it. It's literally in the fucking name qualified immunity. You have to qualify for that immunity. Uh, if you career, if you did some sort of criminal act as an officer and the judge is like, you know, yeah, I think you did this shit on purpose, like your qualified immunity is non-existent, it's gone. So the point, what's the point of getting rid of it? Cause they're like, well, if the cop did something shady, it's a political media push to push an agenda.
Speaker 2:Police are used as pawns for politicians, and it's bullshit.
Speaker 1:Yep, agreed. So, um, I I plan to do a whole qualified immunity um special. I've got this guy that wants to come on and explain why it should be gone, and I think I have got Von Kleem. You know Von Kleem from Force Science. He's the big spokesman for Force Science but he's going to be my qualified immunity expert, so I'm not an expert.
Speaker 2:It's funny, I think, when people hear me say that I don't know who these people are. Immunity expert. So I'm not an expert. It's funny, I think when people hear me say that I don't know who these people are, they think that I'm lying. I literally have almost no clue who anybody is in this, in this game of police training, cause I never look, I don't give a fuck what other people are doing.
Speaker 1:I'm the same way. That's why when we finally get into the street cop section of this to hear all the explanation, because I don't know much about it other than that you guys went around training people, but that's for later in the show.
Speaker 2:Um, I want to get much later in the show. We go in like how much, how long do these shows go? Usually two hours. Holy shit, all right, let's do. Uh. How about then we? Two hours is uh poof. Uh, how about you? Can we do 30 more minutes? Is that cool?
Speaker 1:literally blocked off on the calendar that you agreed to when you read it, if you would have read it.
Speaker 2:I didn't fucking read it. Dude, Two hours for a show.
Speaker 1:Three hours, sir. That's the block off and we usually go an hour and a half two hours. But sometimes you get chatty, Kathy, and we go all three hours. But okay, that's fine, we will go to um. I want to switch gears with you transitioning from the jails to street cop life. So how did that go, were you? Is that something you had to apply for or is that something they were like? All right, we think you're ready who's they?
Speaker 1:Your department. Like did the okay, maybe they're separate, was your okay? So your corrections department was separate from your police department.
Speaker 2:It wasn't like sheriff's. Yeah, completely different entities. They don't even know each other.
Speaker 1:Okay, because for those listening you're not quite sure what we're referring to. Like sheriff's departments, they usually cover their own jails and stuff like that. But then you get corrections facilities. They work their jails, and then you have municipalities, things of that nature, where they hire out either the sheriff's department or some other places to do their jail for them. Um, it's crazy everywhere, so it's just different.
Speaker 2:So there's no consistency anywhere. Everything's completely different. You're absolutely correct. Um, dude, I was taking every test I could possibly take to get out of that place. I mean, I was doing everything I possibly could, non-stop, and I took a application, for, actually at the same time, I was going through the process for cbp, which is the guys who stamped the passports, uh, at the airport, which I was elated to do. That I would see human beings that actually are like civilians, who like follow the law and shit. I like I didn't care where I was going, I just need to get the fuck out of this jail. And um, then I also took a job with us park police. I'd never been to Washington DC in my life. I didn't give a shit. All I knew that's. Even if it was just a stepping stone, it was still, it's crazy, you're just making it rain oh it's nuts, dude.
Speaker 2:I actually took a pay cut from being a pizza delivery driver. I was making like a g bar a week cash as a fucking pizza delivery driver and I went to like making almost nothing as a fucking corrections officer, literally. Oh it's terrible, dude, it's a terrible. That's why I say like don't take those. Like it's not a smart move to go. Do that if your, if your ultimate goal is become a cop. But honestly, I'm glad that I did. I don't have any qualms with the past because I learned the most about myself in my first police academy and that was worth its weight in gold. But yeah, man. So I took this test and you know like got the call, couldn't believe it, literally walked down and worked in the housing unit I was in. I walked down to the shift commander's office and I was like, hey, how much time do I have on the books? He's like you have two weeks and I said, oh cool, here's my two weeks notice. I reached out. I said, mike, it was great working with you. This will be my last shift.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was it. And he's like oh really, I'm like yeah, I got hired, so I'm out of here and so I surreal to me. And uh, you know, I just went out drinking and celebrating because that's what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 1:I would like gaining your freedom like a prisoner yeah, yeah, I just and did like I.
Speaker 2:It was the first time that I started seeing that my co-workers were, um, not super thrilled, you know, in the sense that they were my friends. Yeah, they don't know they. Yeah, they were happy. You know there's some there's some sadness that they're still there, you know.
Speaker 1:OK, a little resentment.
Speaker 2:I don't think they resented me. I think they resented themselves and their situation.
Speaker 1:Fair it's. It's almost kind of like the maybe stigma that I I have projected of people from that area, new jersey and all that stuff. It just seems like they're not happy for anybody or they're not happy about.
Speaker 2:You know it's so funny, dude. The new jersey stigma couldn't be further from the truth. People, when they come to new jersey or visit new jersey, are pleasantly surprised to find out that people here are just more brash and honest than they are fully shit and talk shit behind your back, not saying it doesn't happen. But I think that they're just more of an open group of people where they'll tell you how they feel to your face and not pretend behind your back where I think there's a lot more sneakiness in other sides, parts of the country. Like, yeah, like there is no place that the brotherhood of law enforcement is stronger. And I mean that in the sense of like overall.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying there's not pieces of shit in agencies snakes, scumbags, dirt balls. I'm saying I mean that in the sense of like how they behave towards one another. I'm just saying overall, a lot of good guys and girls wearing a fucking uniform over here Like a lot like big brotherhood, taking care of each other. There's no fucking beef between the troopers and the patrol and the municipal guys. Everybody's on the same page. We're all fucking friends. And that's pretty much the whole Northeast dude. Nobody thinks they're hot shit compared to other people. They just don't. They might sit. Maybe the old troopers, like 20, 30 years ago, thought those guys were hot shit, but nobody does anymore now. It's just a whole different ballgame.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where we're at here in Texas, the troopers, firefighters, all of us I haven't seen any like legitimate beef or anything like that. But up north in Michigan and stuff like there was, there's a little tension, a little tension between certain agencies and certain fire departments and police and stuff like there was there was a little tension, a little tension between certain agencies and certain you know fire departments and police and stuff like that. So but I wasn't there.
Speaker 2:I just don't get it.
Speaker 1:I don't get it either, and I think a lot of it's jealousy from cops because FD gets to hang out and basically be a fraternity all day long.
Speaker 2:You think cops are jealous of firemen.
Speaker 2:I don't think so oh, yeah, absolutely I mean, I mean not, not here, that's for sure. There's no fucking way on earth you get the guys who wanted to be firemen and and took the cop job instead of the fireman job because the fireman job is harder. It's definitely harder to become a fireman in new jersey than it is up cop, no question about it, now more than ever. But typically, oddly enough, those guys who become firemen I'm sorry, those guys who wanted to be firemen became cops and they're being pretty good cops and don't want to leave the police service to go to the fire department. Yeah, I've actually seen guys leave the fire department, which is a very hard job to get, to come to the police side of things, which I was shocked at. But there's no jealousy here, because you got to remember this too, like most of the fire departments in New Jersey are, uh are volunteer, so most of them are not.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, yeah, and it's, I think one of the things that and I'm speculating here, but I think one of the things most firefighters really come to grips with, especially in big cities like where I'm at, is, like you know, it's a population of a million plus, but you're not fighting fires every day. What are you doing? You're handling medical calls with homeless people, like that is the majority of your shift and I I think that's kind of a letdown. Like you, you wanted to go out there and rescue people and save them, and you're kind of just pandering to people abusing the system at times and that can be defeating. Uh, where the cops were. I this is just my impression, doesn't mean I'm right, but us as police, I think we get more opportunity to help people, um, at least initially. So maybe, maybe that's what it is and I think you're right, though I do think I do I think most people tend to push towards the police side than the fire side, for sure, I just think that it's one or the other.
Speaker 2:I think one one. You want to do one, I don't. I never met somebody. Or let me say this I've met very few people who were indecisive of which uniform they wanted to wear okay, seems like like you know, my uh.
Speaker 2:I always thought, like the guys at the fdmy were, like you know, like comparatively speaking to some of the volunteers we have out here, um, I always thought, like the guys at the FDNY were, like you know, like comparatively speaking to some of the volunteers we have out here, I always thought they were going to be like these, like real, like different types of dudes. That my cousin married an FDNY guy and like I went to the first like I don't know party they had with his friends there, great guy, but they're they're they're frigging dorks.
Speaker 1:Like compared to guys, they're just dorks like compared to god, like they're just dorks, like, oh my god, they're such dorks. This is a different breed.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I'm not saying there's no firemen out there, but like overall firemen and I think that's who's attracted the fire side is a bunch of dorks. Like I love you guys, like you're my brothers, I will always be there for all the firemen, but like there's a lot of dorks and strange people on that side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've not met any FDNY guys, met some NYPD dudes, all very cool. I feel like they've got it rough. Right now I feel like the morale is really low.
Speaker 2:I mean, think about this NYPD is down and you can't quote me on this 10% to 20%, so you're talking about being down 3,000 to 6,000 police officers.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, got people don't talk about this either, but I'm told recently, and I don't know if this is a fact or not, that chicago's police department is down two, I'm sorry, down one third. So they're. They're short, like they're short like ten or some ten thousand cops. When you talk about ten thousand cops, that's a lot of people, so they're short, ten thousand cops. And unfortunately, as of today, as we're recording this, yesterday or last night, or actually early this morning the. Chicago police officers killed in line of duty and it's fucking terrible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I caught a cell phone video that somebody had recorded it and you can hear him saying don't reach, don't reach, don't reach. And then you hear like it's an automatic Glock or something of that effect.
Speaker 2:But it was an auto weapon for sure, and I actually won't share it. I I've there's. There's certain things that I'm comfortable sharing on our platform. Um, if I do share somebody's serious incident or demise, it has to be for me at least, with the intention to learn. Yeah, I really try not to make these poor souls martyrs to push, and I get it Like there's a fine line between being a martyr and like reminding people of what's like. So I just don't go there, I just don't. I got you. I try to get an heartfelt message out because I can't change that. I don't think people deserve to be fucking made martyrs as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that, I and I'm, but I'm like you, like if there's a learning, if there's a point to learn from so we can avoid something or whatever. I think, as long as you stay on that point and I'm not putting out any officer's names or doing anything like that that I like to do it that way. That way, citizens can see that cops will hold cops accountable for dumb shit that we do, Cause we all do dumb shit, and then also that we can learn from it and move on. It doesn't. What drives me nuts in today's society is they want to fire cops for everything they do wrong. You're never going to get a perfect cop and we screw up.
Speaker 2:That's because a majority of people are not leaders yeah, Our managers and maybe that that that at best, if they're even able to be managers as well, because leaders have courage. Now, I've met a lot of leaders. I can tell you some leaders like Sheriff Mark Lamb or Sheriff.
Speaker 2:Mark Ivey or I'm telling you these people are leaders and they're not afraid. So when you're afraid, you will appease the crazed mobs. And there are more of these people worried about themselves, shook and afraid, than you could even begin to encompass. They're shook. They don't know what to do in a situation. You want to beat a boss? Great, that means you got to stand up for your guys and girls and have their back and when it really hits hard, stand, stand firm on your ground. They're terrified of this. They're just they can't handle the pressure of, of the and dude, it sucks like I've been the subject of media fucking scrutiny. It's very hard to go through it's and we even had instructors that punched out, couldn't handle the pressure. They fucking buckled in a couple weeks after. They swore up and down they wouldn't leave and didn't have to leave, but they just couldn't handle the pressure of it damn now, uh, switch gears a little bit.
Speaker 1:When you got into patrol, you got into your agency. I want to, I want to get through this part. What did you specialize in? Like you did 14 years as, uh, just police officer.
Speaker 2:You didn't rank up anything like that uh, I was on a list when I left. I was going to be promoted to a sergeant. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, I just uh. Even I loved patrol, you know, I a few. There's a few interventions in my life.
Speaker 2:I put in for the detective bureau at a very young age and I'm glad I didn't get it. At that time they weren't going to pick me. You had these guys who came on in their early 30s, mid 30s, who were just way more mature and had a lot more wisdom, even though I was probably possessed 10 times the amount of tenacity that they had probably possessed, 10 times the amount of tenacity that they had For that kind of position. They were just more mature at that time. I don't know if they were better than I, was just more mature. And I never forget a guy coming up to me and saying you know, the rumor is that you tried out for the detective bureau. This guy's been in patrol for a long time. And I said yeah, and he said you know, that's the problem with this place. They take all the good guys and girls right out of patrol and put them into specialized unity. Because you're not gonna tell you, because these guys might not say it to your face, but they like that you're around, they like that you're in patrol and so everybody knocks this shit. But, like dude, people are like talking that you might leave patrol and they're not happy about it. All your co-workers say they like that you're here. They might they might not tell you, but they like. We need good guys like you. They really appreciate you having you around.
Speaker 2:My friend brian said to me a long time ago when I switched sides I said I'm going the other side of the week and he actually got like a little emotional with me. We had a lot, of, a lot of history together and he said yeah, dude, I'm not trying to blow your head up or anything like that. He's like when you're here, like I like when you're like. Even when you're on vacation you're not here. I don't like when you're not on the road with me. He's like could you give me a comfort factor of I know that somebody's? I know at least one of these guys here, you, of all people I know is coming If I need you, he's like, and you just he's like. I'm losing that now. I fucking hate he's like. I hate it. I, and those two things meant more to me than any kind of fucking award I've ever received yeah, absolutely I one of the best.
Speaker 1:So when I first started this podcast idea and I'm a nerd, this was I kind of stemmed it off of my master nerd, I can't tell what your fucking star wars shit in the background. You fucking dork but you got the reference, so you're a nerd too um, wait, what do I say?
Speaker 2:I get the what you got the reference.
Speaker 1:You understood there's a star wars. Star wars, you know enough. Those aren't like main people.
Speaker 2:So you have been dating the same girl since you're like 12, right, and like yeah, yeah, you're, you're, you're pretty dorky dude, you know what I mean. Like I am all right fair enough.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the point I was getting to uh before I was so new jerseyly, interrupted um the uh, the compliment that I got when I started this podcast.
Speaker 1:I thought you know how cops are we like to shit on everything whether we're joking around or whatever it is, we like to shit on each other, um, for funsies. And uh, I expected to get a lot of. You know, I didn't know, I didn't know what I was going to get. I thought maybe nobody would say anything. I didn't go around advertising. Hey, I got a podcast. Hey, I got a podcast, like I just kept it to myself. And, um, I ended up getting probably within a few weeks. Uh, you know know, I was trying to put out an episode a week. I say within a few weeks, maybe a month or two. Uh, I got a.
Speaker 1:Somebody reached out and was like man, I'm so glad you did that episode about swat. I was considering going to swat, but your episode talked me out of it. Um, some things were revealed in the episode that I had never considered and I was like, okay, cool man, I, man, I appreciate it. And then he's like, he's like and it made me check out some of your other stuff he's like I think you should keep doing what you're doing. He's like this is, this is pretty cool, it's pretty cool idea, and so it wasn't like an officer that I, I work around a lot or I have to see every day. So he wasn't just blowing smoke on me just like you were saying, wasn't blowing smoke up my ass trying to make my head inflate. He gave me a genuine compliment and, just like you said, that was probably one of the more meaningful things that's ever happened to me in law enforcement than any award I've ever gotten, and so I get where you're coming from on that.
Speaker 1:And that does mean it means so much more as a street level cop to hear from your peers, your direct peers, to have them try to stop you, not because they just want another body out in the street with them, because they genuinely feel safer, even if they didn't use those words. Like he said, he has got kids and he wanted you out there with him Like dude. That tells me, assuming your story's true, that tells me that you, you were the real deal, because officers don't, we don't. That's part of the culture of policing. We don't come out and say that shit to our boys Like you know, all right, bitch, see you when, when, when I see it, you know, have fun not doing police work anymore. That's the type of stuff we say to each other. He I mean him coming up telling you that actually upset him. I mean, that speaks volumes, man, you were out there killing it, so friend of mine.
Speaker 2:Uh, one more thing that I can remember and I'm not trying to make myself, I'm not just sitting here trying to peacock um, just a few meaningful conversations. But another one's got glenn that I I liked a lot, um, and he knows exactly who he is if he hears this. They, the administration, out of nowhere, went from we want guys to be proactive. We're going to start rewarding everybody to anybody who's proactive, we're shutting your ass down. So I got brought up and it was the fucking games of like we're going to start fucking with you if you don't stop stopping cars, and like the whole bullshit, right. And so I came down and he's like you know what happened up there and Like the whole bullshit, right. And so I came down and he's like you know what happened up there and I'm like I'm fucking done. Like Sit right in a fucking parking ticket a day. I don't, I don't trust these fucking people. I'm done.
Speaker 2:And he goes. That means everybody's done. And I said what do you mean? He goes? Dude, you're the only guy that I've ever seen here who, fucking, no matter what went on, you still came in here with the same amount of enthusiasm, went out, did your job. You did a hell of a job. He goes and now that you, of all people, he's like you're the nail in the coffin, brother. He's like when you're gonna, this is gonna send the signal everybody that's over. It's like it's you. It's not anybody else that could have that could do this, it's you. And, um, you know, I think about that one a lot. Another one I thought of one that they needed people to go into a parade and the administration uh, for the first time, wanted cops marching in our saint patty's day parade and they couldn't get anybody to participate and they weren't going to pay overtime, and so somebody who was in charge of it- I would have done that.
Speaker 1:That sounds fun.
Speaker 2:We don't have that well, people were pretty fucking angry at the time. So it wasn't like they wanted, like they weren't doing anything for us, so we weren't doing anything for them, you know. And so somebody came to me and asked me for a personal favor. And I said why'd you come to me? Like I'm the godfather, right, like why'd you come to me to ask me to get guys to go into this, into the parade? And that person said because they'll listen to you. I know that if you tell 25, 30 guys to go to the parade, they're going to go. And it's not because I was like some fucking maniac, I just a good dude I was. I really loved the job. It made it a lot of fun. We had a lot of good times.
Speaker 2:I I genuinely loved the people I worked with. I really did. I had a lot of fantastic memories with some of the best human beings, most fun guys and girls I ever met in my life. I mean, out of 200 men and women, there's probably three people that I fucking couldn't stand right. We all got them right. So, like there, like three people I couldn't fucking stand to even look at. But outside of that, I really was fond of everybody I worked with. I really was. I thought they were just wonderful, wonderful people. So, you know, and they knew that I, they knew that I was the same way, I had their back, regardless of what's said now and anything that's convoluted late, you know, 10 years later, I really felt that way about them. I really, I really cared about those guys and girls a lot.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you didn't let the cynicism that is deep in the culture of policing get to you.
Speaker 2:You can't let life get to you. Dude Right, ignore the noise, focus on the work. This is the big logo or the saying or mantra of street cop training. It's one of a handful of them, but we have an ignore the noise shirt. You've got to be enthusiastic to come out and do this job safely. Enthusiasm is the key to safe police work Because if you're unenthusiastic you're going to get yourself killed or somebody else killed. You've got to have that enthusiasm, you've got to have that excitement and have that, that, that excitement.
Speaker 2:And there's nothing more disappointing or disheartening when they take a guy, a girl who has all the fire in the world, go out and be a great cop and they just fucking damper that, that flame. They just put it right out and they just took a great potential, great cop for 25 years and made them a miserable, salty fuck and it's and it's. It's heartbreaking because it can be easily done. Or the bad, the other at the agency you know the bums they see this orphan and take them in and create another bum, and I hated seeing that. I hate to see guys go to field training with me. Yeah, I won't say field training, but like maybe go through, not my field training program. But like, go through some field training, be into it, and then I see they start gravitating towards the bums and now they're a bum too and it's like a guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, had some potential there and that influence is way stronger than people think and every cop in the world thinks that they are not manipulated, uh in the least. And they're their own person and they're the alpha and all this shit. And I'm like, you became a salty fuck within six months of being on this team because your FTO was voluntold to take you. It wasn't wanting to take anybody else and he let you know how shitty the department is.
Speaker 2:And now that's your outlook on your next 30 year career because of this one dude and I'm like you had rookie cops, right, you had rookie cops who wouldn't even get in pursuits, right, and like, if they heard a pursuit, they'd like're like well, we're not, we were on call to it, so we're not going. And I would be like shoving my mother off a bridge, I know, and kicking a baby out of the way of my car to get in a fucking like I dude, I mean, they used to call me off lunch when they thought a pursuit was going to happen. Or I get calls on my cell phone from my friends who work dispatch. Like yo, you can't say nothing. But like, end up, like state police is coming up, fucking coming up the parkway with a stolen carter in a pursuit. Like just go out there and pretend like you see them and you're joining it, like these are, like these are other cops calling me because they were monitoring the radio inside.
Speaker 2:Or like I gotta have sergeants call me. Like yo, there's a fucking pursuit coming up. Why don't you go out there like? Or like, hey, like I was always car five, like car five, good, you still, you still eating lunch. And I'm like, well, I don't know what do you got like, yeah, we got, we're gonna, we're gonna have a pursuit soon, right where somebody's calling out a car. They were behind it was stolen. We're like yo car five you available I need more people around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, before I light them up like dude, they knew, yeah, like.
Speaker 2:So if you look into me, you'll see that I had the most use of force reports in like, like in the department for like five years or some shit. And so people like, oh, you must have beaten ass. No, no, guys, let me just tell you something. One I didn't not do use of force reports. When I had to do use of force reports number one. Number two who do you think they sent to fucking heavy duty, seriously physical, fucking incidents? You think they sent dainty little 103 pound, uh, susan. No, they fucking called the big me and the two other dudes on a fucking squad, maybe the other three or four other guys, whoever it may be. Who do you think got sent to these? The guys that these people knew could handle the situation safely? So, yeah, we went to a lot more user force calls because we were the fucking guys they called. If you had 20 guys in a row'm telling you the same fucking five dudes, when shit really hit the fan, were sent to those calls. Other people came but like, yeah, we were cleared off everything. Hey, you, uh, hey, clear that clear, that car crash. Uh, everybody's off the road, right, yeah, we got, we got, we got 25 people fighting at this place. Right, we need you to go right now. Hey, can you wrap that up? You got enough of your report. Hey, you got this. You got that, like.
Speaker 2:That's why I had the use of force reports and plus, also, I was like eager to go somewhere and help people. Plus, you know, we didn't. We didn't take shit in the sense of like, if I thought that this was going south and there was no saving it by calming people down, we intervened. We didn't beat people to death, we just intervened and got them in cuffs. Yeah, you don't know when you could, when you could at least talk to somebody, or there was no talking. Yeah, right, you got somebody who's drunk off their ass. There's no fucking making sense to a drunk off their ass violent dude. He's got to get put in fucking handcuffs. You might as well take the upper hand and and try to steal it from him yep, and there's two points I want to make, um, one about what you just said.
Speaker 1:I'll say that afterward. Just remind me of the stadium thing that just happened. Um, but what you said without saying it, uh, you had the most use of force reports. You were the guy, you were the go-to dude. Can I just say?
Speaker 2:something. Let me just say this real quick yeah, go ahead. I was not the toughest guy at my agency. I am not the toughest guy in the world. I am not. There are plenty of coworkers knew could handle shit when it hit the fan collectively altogether. I'm telling you there are guys that I worked with that are tougher than I am Fucking promise you. So don't misinterpret what I'm saying here.
Speaker 1:I'm. So I'm going to compliment what you just said, because I think what you were alluding to, without even saying it or meaning to, is when we were talking about the slugs and ones. That doesn't don't work. They're not going to those calls anyway. They're going to avoid calls the best they can. They're going to conveniently oh copy traffic in route.
Speaker 1:They're those guys, and what I mean by that is when you have a person that's not affected by the cynicism, is enthusiastic about going and taking calls and helping people, they take more calls your volume of call taking versus a slug or a cynic or a person that just doesn't want to get in trouble, you're going to take a volume of calls that is absurdly higher than those people. So, of course, you're going to lead the way and you, as a force, you're taking more calls and you're taking more chances. You're taking more risk. Now, the risk I think back then wasn't nearly as high as it is today, because it seems like everybody's afraid to do police work, especially if they don't have an administration that's going to back them up for doing police work.
Speaker 2:So you have two very valid points here, but you didn't say the second one, you said the first one. The first one is people are afraid to do police work when they don't have an administration to back them up. That's one valid point. But on the other side of it, there are many police officers and many agencies in this country doing really good, great work still to this day because their administration supports them. So it's amazing what an absurd supportive administration will enable cops to be able to do in the field. So one is one thought one's another. You cannot do police work when you're working with people you cannot trust. It is inherently impossible. And I don't know how on God's green earth any of you go to work at any point of the day and do work for people who you cannot trust. I would never fucking work for somebody ever again in my life that I could not trust. In a million years. I would go be a fucking door-to-door shoe salesman before I fucking did that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when I became a supervisor, I was requested in a certain area and they said we're looking for old school zero tolerance style for this area. And I said, okay, who's my chain of command? Like that was the first question who's my chain of command? Oh shit, okay cool, I got two old school people on above me. So I'm like awesome, that's my backing. I trust those people implicitly. Is this what you know the chief wants? And they're like yep, I'm like all right, cool, let's go. So I was very inspired and I try to have these conversations with people and it's exactly to your point. Like the reason I can still go out and do what I do in proactive policing in today's time is because I have a chain of command that I trust and so far has basically given me the direction and I've just gone wild with it. But the other point that I wanted to make that you're talking about is fighting or having to go hands on when you know the talking's done. It's a hard thing to explain to people. Everybody wants to use the hot term de-escalation, whatever there's. There is a point when you know the talking is over with, and one of those those I just did a video, a reaction video to this uh incident in the Georgia Florida game.
Speaker 1:They had a dude sitting in the stands. Officers come up, try to make contact with them. Um, they tase them a couple of times. That didn't work. And then you just see this officer come up and just start throwing some haymakers like just bam bam, bam, bam, bam, and it's this big drawn out thing. And, uh, they end up getting him into custody. And I came out and I defended this officer. I was like I was like here's what I see, and I broke it all down. I see this, I see that. And then their big hang up one was that this guy was punching with handcuffs in his hand. Okay, fair. But like I was saying in the video, it was like shit happens in a fight. He wasn't, he was moving in to cuff and then all of a sudden had to in the point that you were making about.
Speaker 1:You know when the point hits that the talking is over. That is one of the best examples of the talking is over, like this guy's already threatened to fucking kill cops, and these weren't facts known at the time. But I'm watching the video and through my experience, I'm like all right, something happened right here that he decided he's got to start wailing on this dude to affect the arrest and it's up in the stadium seating. You know how fucking awkward that was going to be in itself. So, anyway, I put out this reaction video righteous arrest.
Speaker 1:But anybody that listens to this, I want you to remember this point that me and Dennis are talking about. It becomes a point where the talking is over, and that is a perfect example in a video of where the talking is over, and that is what that officer hit and that's when he decided to start using force. And it is so hard to explain to anybody that doesn't do this job and hasn't been in those positions that you, you just know it's hard to explain. There's no, there's no real articulation with, like I knew it was over, like people will always say well, you could have tried this, you could have tried that Not in these situations. And ultimately, when you pull the trigger no pun intended to use force, you end up not. You end up not using as much force as you would have if you hesitated and allowed it to escalate bigger. Does that make sense? Does that resonate?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm also going to jump in here and say this like I just find it comical that it's always the fault of the cop.
Speaker 1:There's no responsibility given to this fucking jerk off, oh for sure, right, and so I remember watching a press conference which I was very impressed.
Speaker 2:It was again another florida sheriff where apparently those sheriffs down there are taught how to grow balls and everybody else around the country attention to how those guys behave. And so this reporter asked this sheriff she's like he or she I forgot what it was is basically like, oh like, why did the police officer have the car running but wasn't there? And the sheriff said why are you taking away from the fact that some piece of shit stole the fucking police car? I don't worry about why the cop had the car running, I don't, it doesn't matter, because this guy took it, made a decision to steal a fucking police car. Can we focus on that?
Speaker 1:and I was like, damn, that's there you go and that's the deflection strategy that the media uses to to make a a headline or a title that the media, dude, like they are the biggest.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I I would I would confirm to say the biggest demise of this country is the fucking mainstream media they are. They are soulless devils. Yeah, they are literally sent here by satan and I have to think in my head how do you live with yourself as a fucking quote unquote journalist? You're all so full of shit. It's absurd. You're so full of shit. It's crazy to me what they get away with and and how some people believe them. Yeah, fucking nuts.
Speaker 1:I think that you want to talk about getting rid of qualified immunity so you can sue a cop and take his pension away. How about you hold the media accountable for the falsehoods that they put out and the damage that they cause?
Speaker 2:You won't, that's you know. Who controls the media is the fucking, the big boys, yeah. So guys it's easy to see how things are run you know what I mean, like hillary after this. So how about that when tony uh, what's his name? The guy from the kill tony thing he's like, and a few weeks from now, I didn't kill myself yeah, it's sad he has to say that too, but I'm, I don't blame him. I don't think they would have got the dead star already. To be honest with you, what's that I?
Speaker 1:thought they would have got the deadster already to be honest with you, what's that?
Speaker 2:I thought they would have got the deadster, but I guess they didn't get to him.
Speaker 1:Oh well, I don't know Well.
Speaker 2:I don't know if he has enough important people in his repertoire of like. It wasn't the island where all the fucking big people were going to, right, I think this was just like you know. My cousin was breaking my chops and she said I'm just waiting for you to come out of the closet. I've been waiting for a long time, like listen, let's talk about the reality here. And, by the way, I have no, I have more gay friends than anybody that anybody listening to this fucking thing.
Speaker 1:If you've got a call, you shouldn't say it.
Speaker 2:No, no, like. My point is just like. This is not what the conversation. No, p diddy did not come out and say that wasn't me right. If that happened, you said I got a video of you and another dude. I'd say bring it, let's see, I'll wait right here. Go get it, go find it right that's a normal.
Speaker 2:That would be a good reaction like you know, is there truth to that? There's gotta be, because you couldn't accuse me of something like that knowing I didn't do something like that and I would react. I would literally be like holding press conferences in the fucking middle of everywhere I went. I did not do that. To that fella, yeah, like I show me the video right?
Speaker 1:yeah, I'll watch it with you. We'll do it on a live event I knew you'd watch it with me. Yeah yeah, because it ain't me, but okay. So when you got into patrol and then you, you did your time, there's had to be some revelation about your current business. So I want to know what that revelation was, where you were like we're not doing enough, we need to do more. There's something, there's this, there's that Like how did you transition into that for Street Cop?
Speaker 2:there's that like how did you transition into that? For street cop, I took my first promotional testing course and in state new jersey, it's based on case law. I didn't know what case law was 2008, taking this first exam and um, by the way, I also had a shore house at the time, which, studying for a sergeant's exam and having a shore house at the Jersey Shore, they did not go well together, just so we're clear, especially when I was a young, strapping young lad and a cop and a wild dude with a mohawk. So I have a lot of good stories, but one story I don't have is that I scored really well in the sergeant's exam.
Speaker 1:Did you meet any of the Jersey Shore cast members?
Speaker 2:Dude, I'm so Jersey. I've been on the show.
Speaker 1:No, you have. Yeah, are you serious?
Speaker 2:Every Monday, tuesday and Thursday, when I am in New Jersey, my children go to a jujitsu gym and I sit next to JWoww because her kids go to jujitsu with my kids.
Speaker 1:No shit. Who's the instructor?
Speaker 2:I'm just curious what school it is yeah, I'll tell you all fair oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't even.
Speaker 2:It's not about me. I don't want to blow her spot up, dude, yeah I was more kind of I'm.
Speaker 1:I've been doing jujitsu since 06. I'm a I'm a big fan, so yeah.
Speaker 2:So she's like, uh, you know there's only like 10 or 12 parents in the place when we're all there together and you know like nobody ever makes a big deal that she's there because we're all from here. We all know these guys and girls, like I, dude is more, there's more connections. I mean, I was, I was at a, I was at angelina's wedding like I know all these people, right, I'm familiar with them. I know a lot of people, uh, because I'm from jersey, dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome anyway, um, but yeah, that's how, jersey, I'm what we talking about you, how you, the epiphany for street cap oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So anyway, I remember reading case law, being told this case law, and I'm like, okay, I get it, you need to notice stuff to get chevrons. But like don't we just need to know this stuff? Like dude, I couldn't believe it. I actually have my notes I think I still haven't saved from that class when I was writing in my books like good for a class, good for a class Cause my wheel started turning. I'm like everybody needs to know this. Like how do we not know this?
Speaker 2:Then I'm asking the guy who, who wrote the class? And I'm like you're telling me we can arrest somebody for that. And he's like yeah, or I'd say like you tell me, we can't just pat frisk everybody we meet. He's like no, and I'm like what? He's like you never had terry v ohio. I'm like no, he's like I won't get on the job. I'm like seven years and I'm like what's terry v ohio? Three academies, what's terry v ohio? Right, yeah, like, so, like dude, I became, oh my god, just I fell in love with the answers and like it just dismantled all the bullshit. But you know, when you show up and you're the guy telling the fucking truth and you know you're literally dismantling what everybody needs to be true, that is not, and there's other things. Like you create a lot of ways. People were not happy that I was showing up and changing things.
Speaker 1:Oh boy, oh boy oh, cops hate fucking change, especially if it ain't their idea, dude, like we get wrong.
Speaker 2:We get caught in our own world of, like our ecosphere of cops this, cops, that cops cheat, people cheat, people don't like change. There's there's bums at fucking at Jersey Mike's right now. There's there's the. There's two fucking employees out of the five that everybody hates. Like there's a boss. It's just that we're in a police world. We correlate everything. Police world. It's the world, dude. Yeah Right, there were lazy fucks 24 years ago when I got on the job 23 years ago. There are lazy fucks now. Like it.
Speaker 2:Just people didn't hate, didn't like the cops then. They don't like the cops now. You just didn't see it on video. We got shot and killed. Just as much I hate the fucking. I'm not downplaying that, but like that happened then it's happening now.
Speaker 2:It's not like oh, oh, times now, no, dude, no, some guy wrote in my group the other day. He's like, what was police like before cameras? I'm like, oh, before you had to actually know the Constitution, what was police work? Like, yeah, that's exactly what it was. So when you have to show up and say, like you guys realize we're on body cam now, right, and you got to know what the fuck you're talking about, that's the problem. Police works bad. Oh, with these cameras and shit. No, no, it held you accountable, right?
Speaker 2:Oh, that benino character is a dick. Oh, thank you, chief. Why? Because you're the guy I talk about, who, like you know, is the person trying to purposely jam up their coat, like their fucking employees. Like I'm the dick, you're the guy doing it. Get the like. Yeah, you know what I mean, dude like. So it's just this whole shift of like how you guys don't like the way things are, but you want to leave things exactly the way they are. You're swinging a stick in a bag and scream and get back for fucking 40 hours in the academy. Are you fucking kidding me, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, it takes. It takes two weeks to learn how to swing a baseball bat. It is the biggest like, and this is kind of the premise of, like it started with this it takes two weeks to learn how to swing a baseball bat.
Speaker 2:It does. It is the biggest like and this is kind of the premise of like. It started with this hey, you can do different things. There's a better way to catch criminals, and here's constitutionality to like. I think this whole thing needs to be redone and I'm just putting it out there and I ruffle a lot of feathers. People get very frustrated Because if you like, if you're the director of an Academy and you like the fact that people march and jog and call cadence and fold flags and shine shoes, you're not going to like me, because I the first thing I do is get rid of all that shit. Right, including PT. You're going to get rid of PT. Yeah, let's take all the stupid shit that we do that you'll never do again in your life and just go right to a jujitsu mat.
Speaker 1:That's it, let's start with that. I've been pushing that every cop needs to be a blue belt minimum in jiu-jitsu. I I I will admit that there are other uh martial arts out there that are just as you know catch wrestling, wrestling uh judo, muay thai, boxing. I like all of those things, not karate.
Speaker 2:No, fuck, not karate at all.
Speaker 1:You don't have any, since my kids right four kids.
Speaker 2:So then like you don't have any. Listen to my kids, right? Four kids. So then, like parents will be like, well, three of my kids are in jiu-jitsu. Like, oh well, stevie does karate and I'm like for what? To put a show on for his grandma. Like, what are you like? What are you in karate?
Speaker 1:like, oh, like a pre-work board bring your fucking kids.
Speaker 2:My two middle ones have been doing jujitsu for over two years now. I watched a kid last weekend same age, same size as my kid literally try to take him down. And these are little guys 48 pounds, 50 pounds, they're seven-year-olds. And my son literally just stood there and was almost chuckling. And I'm not saying he's the toughest kid in the world. He's had two years of fighting experience, two to three times a week when the kid if you let that kid try to choke you out, he's 50 fucking pounds, 51 pounds, he will. If you let him get a grip on you, he will choke you, right, and it'll hurt and you're gonna have to tap on him. If he's an adult, right, you're gonna have, because you don't want to like slam against the wall, you have to tap out, right.
Speaker 2:I just watched this kid try to like take him down. He was like laughing at a flag football game. He was like laughing. He's like just kept like stepping to the left and the kid was doing his very best. He's like laughing. He's like looking at me, like smiling, yeah, and I came over. I'm like you know, pal, that's like why you go to jujitsu. Like you, you see the difference. Like you see, the fucking difference you and he's. I actually sometimes have to tell these kids like you take it easy, right, like you got to be careful with these other kids. Like I know you guys start fucking around. They my kids actually won't turn on jujitsu if they're fighting with their friends. They just won't. They don't bring it out. Yeah, if they're fighting with the front and like I'm glad of that, but at the same time something like yo fucking end this shit. Like wrap this kid up, set the hooks and fucking choke him out, yeah, and they're like all right, stop, he's done, he's done, the kid's done yeah, I uh my daughters.
Speaker 1:I had them in um they didn't take to it uh as well as I hoped, but I'm not the parent to force them um.
Speaker 2:They're 15 and 13, so wait, you don't have a choice here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I did I did it for six months. I said I need a six month commitment. So they both gave me a six month commitment, um, and they wanted to try other things, volleyball and all that stuff. I was like, as long as you're in something cool. And then they tried it again another six months.
Speaker 2:They can do whatever else they want. I know the reality of life, yeah, and there's nothing worse than the feeling of being helpless. Yeah, and the last thing you want in this world is to feel helpless in a situation where you know you don't know how to, physically, especially in a world people are developing their fighting skills and do the leverage factor on somebody who's good at jiu-jitsu versus isn't. It's.
Speaker 1:It's astounding that's why I'm such a proponent. I'm like, if you just got to the level of blue belt and I'm not saying quit, don't just get there and quit, because I know by the time you get there the light bulb will finally go off. But in police, police work like that is that should be your standard. If you know you want to get into police work, that's the number one thing that I everybody's like. What can I do to prepare to become a cop? Go start grappling, go learn how to write. You do those two things. You'd be do all right, because if you know how to grapple, you'll know how to deal with just about everything. Um, and it's it. And it's a weird transition.
Speaker 1:But your confidence level, the way you talk to people, everything about you, will change simply because of your new confidence level. With being able to handle somebody in a life-or-death situation, or maybe not even life-or-death, just whatever it is. I almost literally do not have the ability to get an adrenaline rush anymore in police work, shootings, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm sure that it's possible, depends on what happens. It just hasn't happened. And I'm still in the streets, I'm still doing the job. I'm out there supervising a bunch of young rookies, so I'm always on their calls, with them, making sure that they're doing the right things, and if they got questions or whatever it is, I'm right there to guide them. But, more importantly, I'm just there to have their back and let them know whatever tools you need to get the job done, I'm here for you, but I'm not going to let you take a call by yourself, so as much as you don't talk about inaction and consequences for a second, I'm gonna make a post about this.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm a genius because I'm a genius like, yeah, the guy asked me today.
Speaker 2:He's like, you guys still have those, those certain shirts in stock, and I'm like bro, I'm a fucking gene. I have no idea what the shelves have, but that's not my job here.
Speaker 1:Yeah I'll get you one.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna have to really think this one through to put a good post out. But let's talk about inactions and consequences. Inaction I don't want to go to jitsu. Consequences my face gets broken, I get killed or I have to use deadly force because I didn't know what else to do and kill somebody. So now I've got to spend an extra $50,000 On a fucking real attorney Not the bullshit one they give you off the list to defend myself from going to jail.
Speaker 2:Consequences you know. Inactions I don't want to read case, I want to understand the constitution. Consequences civil rights violations you know unintended suppressed evidence, bad reputation, no confidence from your agency, so like this goes on and on. Like don't want to be proficient with shooting. Consequences you get in a shootout. You don't win, you get shot. You get in a shootout, you shoot, but you don't hit your target. You hit, you get in a shoot, like you know.
Speaker 2:So like the significant consequences that people don't think about when you fail to take action as a professional and I can't lay this completely on administration, but I will lay some of it on the administration. Stop waiting for these people to give you what you need. And that's why Street Cup University is so fucking beautiful Because we're not waiting for you or waiting for your administration to approve it, because you can afford it. And guess what? You're going to get 15 to 25 full classes every year, and probably more than that. To be quite honest with you, I'm just shooting a low number valued at 5,000 bucks of training.
Speaker 2:I would the crew cut in the fucking suit sitting at a fucking uh, like or almost. You ever see some of these like they look like the Sally, jesse Raphael sets or like the Maury sets that are sitting there talking with the like, like the red cushion chairs, like I'm like these guys think and the crazy. Like they think they're doing a good job. Like, yeah, community relations, my name is Sergeant Joseph So-and-so. Yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Today we're going to talk about why it's important to have community relations. Like you think you're doing a good job. Okay, keep making it easy, for this is what you guys have to fucking train from. It is garbage and everybody you're shaking your head.
Speaker 1:Yes, everybody fucking knows it, it's no secret.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because when you 25 classes a year for 99 and it's tax deductible for the year right a hundred less than a hundred dollars. It comes out to like 650 a month if you write it off in your taxes. So you can't complain to me that I didn't get to go to training. I couldn't afford the training. I can't do any better for you. I sit here and record shit every fucking day. Better stuff. I just did a canine program for 30 minutes. You'll never have a canine question again. It's done.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful and the other thing, too, that I know about you that we haven't discussed, but you're accessible, like if people have questions. Like well, in my state, this is what the rules are and can you adjust, and you guys do, I know you do, I've heard yeah.
Speaker 2:I can't believe you actually got back to me. I'm like dude I, I. I love this and.
Speaker 2:I love that you come here and I can give you the. Here's, the facts, the things that I know that you don't. But guess what? You could know these too if you just took the fucking time to read it. But if you're not, I'll still take your money in exchange for my time. So people are like, oh, you do the math in a class. You're like this guy makes a lot of money, do I? Because I only get paid when people show up or when people's memberships renew. But I sit here, I mean, the minute my eyes open I start thinking about it. I only take one day off a week, dude, and that's just to spend time with my kids, typically Saturdays, and even on Saturdays I'll probably, before they wake up, I knock out about two, three hours worth of work and then I have to disengage from it so I can be a dad disengage from it so I can be a dad.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, I mean, you know, I mean this, this podcast. I made it into an LLC. When I first started I had no intentions of trying to make money or anything like that. I just wanted to see where it would go, how it would do, and it's evolved you know, four years running now, into this monster that I'm let me say, monster, into what it is. And I, if I could do this, I if I could do this and not have to be a cop anymore, probably would.
Speaker 1:Um, it's just when it comes to the marketing side, I'm not. I'm still a cop, so I don't understand that whole side of thing. Um, but it's, it's done and we'll talk offline about it, but it's done fairly, fairly decent, um, but uh, yeah, I, I get that. The thing that I want to know is when you first started doing street cop now you've got to get. You did this while you were a police officer still correct, you're not stuck in just doing police work Like. You can still go after and take what you've learned on the job and apply it to help you create other things. I've created this podcast, you've created your business with training and there's other people that have done such great jobs.
Speaker 2:So I want to jump in and I have to jump in and cut you off because my ADD, because this is important, because I've been seeing this a lot lately, do it, I'm gonna conch, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw something back at you and be a little bit of a of a uh, what's the word? They call it an antagonist here I love it antagonist.
Speaker 2:There are some people making six figure salaries as a police officer. That is way more than they can make anywhere else True shit. So don't take for granted the fact that you get paid 150 grand a year base pay or 130,000 a year base pay, because you are probably delusional to how much you're actually worth, and in the real world you're probably worth 65. Now, that's one section of people. There's another section of people who you're making 130, but you're worth 740 and you're doing yourself a disservice. Okay, that's another section of people. And the other people are. You're being paid appropriately. So I'm not counting the danger factor I'm talking about as a job.
Speaker 2:What I've seen lately is people thinking that they are business people. Please, have a very long conversation with yourself and ask yourself am I somebody who has the discipline to go and start something? I really think most people should stay the fuck away from this. But for those who it's calling you and you want to try, go for it. But do a hundred hours of research please on entrepreneurship, like I went to it. Uh, this, uh, andy elliott you know that guy like he yells people for not having six packs. Yeah, I get invited to uh, like it's him and bradley. So I went to this. It's like 50 people in a room, 60 people in a room, and you know, I, it wasn't for me. I, I, I certainly can appreciate what they built. It wasn't for me, it just isn't. It just wasn't. I'm not saying anything bad. The guy a very admirable growth of a company. I don't really know what they do, um, and I think whatever they do, they're obviously successful at it. Fantastic.
Speaker 2:But one part of the the conversation beginning, he's like guys. He's talking a bunch of kids. He's like business, it's so fucking hard, it's so much fucking harder than you think it is. It's and I'm, I'm in the back and I'm dying laughing. And the kid next to me is like what are you laughing about? I'm like that's the truest shit. And you don't even know what he means by that. You have no fucking clue, you have no idea what that means and I probably me and a couple other guys in this room actually know what that means to how hard business is like that's the fuck and I'm good at it, and that's the truth, and that dude's good and that's the truth, because this shit is hard, like it's hard emotionally. It's hard in the sense that you've got to figure a lot of stuff out. But emotionally, man, if you don't have a good emotional intelligence, you're fucked. You can't run a business, it's impossible. You've got to have good emotional intelligence and you've got to be intelligent too. But it doesn't mean you're not working at your potential or you can do something else.
Speaker 2:But just be realistic with yourself. If you're going to do something else like really be realistic with yourself. If you're on the verge of killing yourself because being a cop is just that, get the fuck out. Go make half the pay, because you're better off being alive. Go be happy. Make fucking 40,000 less a year, but be alive. We need you. We need you. Don't lose your life over this fucking stupid job. Right, and I say stupid job because you have a ton of pride with it, but it's still a fucking job. It's not worth your life. So I'll downplay it in the fucking sense of suicide. It's a fucking job. There's no reason to lose your fucking life over a fucking job. You will figure it, the fuck out. So stop it. You're going to be okay. I promise you that. Anybody can go bartender fucking like little one or like okay, right, all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm willing to.
Speaker 2:I always tell people if I wrote an autobiography I call it willing, I'm willing to do whatever it takes. I just I'm willing. I just wrote like and I don't mean that in the sense of an immoral path I'm talking about. I'm just I'm willing to put the like to go through and I know we have a lot of time. But very briefly I'll tell people I was a subject of a fucking hit piece and a political hit job ran on me and they fucking beat the piss out of me, destroyed a lot of my company, and that was a hard thing to go through and I had to sit after all the years of what I put in, built in, all these lives changed, and I had to sit and say, all right, I can't be romantic with what I had, I have to be realistic with what I have and the one thing I have is me and I trusted me and so once I got me back I knew I'd be okay.
Speaker 2:But that's me right, like that's how hard shit is. I mean I'm on fucking medication, bro from business, right, I'm on Lexapro at 40 fucking two for the first time ever in my life because of business, because I give a fuck so much that I'm willing to get my fucking face smashed in on behalf of every cop in this country, because I believe in what I'm doing so much, because I care about all these men and women and you don't owe me a thing. But that's how fucking, how willing I am to try to make the change I know is possible that I can do. That's how. That's the when it says when you say how hard is business, I was in, I fucking like lost everything in, like my life and my identity and all these things and spent fucking four and a half months in a mental coma. And that's how hard business is. And if you're not willing to do that shit, then don't fucking get involved.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've had people reach out to me and they're like Levine man, I like what you do on your podcasts and stuff like that. I'm thinking about doing it myself. I'm like, okay, just know that anybody that starts a podcast or mine's more than just a podcast, but anybody that starts a podcast, or you know mine's more than just a podcast, but anybody that starts it's like they don't usually make it past 10 episodes. That's kind of the uh, the average and um, I was like, so, like, kind of make sure this is something you want to get into so you don't waste the money. I'm not trying to discourage you, just like you're saying if this is where your heart's at like, fucking go for it. I'm all about it and I will guide you the best I can. I was like, but you got to understand I'm putting 40 to 60 hours into what I do. That's why it looks the way it is dude.
Speaker 2:Listen, I got a million things to do. I'm I'm going to record. I recorded already an hour and a half podcast. We did this one right. Then I'm going to do about 10 shorts that were 15 minutes a piece, so, uh, that's today. And then, guess what, when I'm done, I have other things that I have to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, family obligations.
Speaker 2:I've been going 5, 15 in the morning. No, fuck, family obligations like right now. Right, like I've been going since. No, I'm serious, I'm a father, I'm going to be there for them. But, like you know, like that's not what the priority is at the moment. My kids don't a priority right now. You want nice things. Daddy has to work and everybody understands that here. So like I do that out constantly. But like I've been going since I started, I literally started at fucking 5, 10 in the morning and I'm gonna go tonight until I can't fucking think anymore, which probably had probably happens around like seven, 50 to eight, 20. And then I'm done, dude, and then I literally just go to bed and go to sleep and repeat process tomorrow. Yeah, and I worked out.
Speaker 1:So I want to kind of jump to can you give like a breakdown of exactly what street cop is? And then I want, if I, I and I don't want to get any territory you're not willing to go into or can go into, but what was the political hit piece? Why were they coming after you?
Speaker 2:um. So street cop training is a police training company, um you know. Essentially, without trying to ruffle too many feathers any, feathers, do it I am completely transparent, but I'm also not fucking stupid, so there will be a day where I will sit and go through every single fucking thing and how it unfolded, when I feel like it's appropriate to do so okay I just don't want to hear the call from my attorney of like, why would you fucking do that Right, fair and so for that?
Speaker 2:basically, in a nutshell, I would have, to this day, still the only police training company that's ever been investigated out of 150 plus police training vendors in the state of New Jersey. So you tell me how. That's not a political. Nobody's even been looked at, nobody's been questioned, and there's a lot of things that happen that I'm going to go into great detail once it's appropriate to do so, because I want people to know I also don't live in the past either. I'm not sitting here trying to dwell on that story. That's not the story that I'm telling myself, but essentially, um, it was a very, very difficult thing to go through and whatever it is that I did did not equal the punishment that I received, and it was. It was political. Politics were used to fucking beat me to piss, uh, as as hard as they possibly could and, um, you know it wasn't a fun experience. To be honest with you, it was, it was horrific and it was full of um, it was just, it was crazy. It was a crazy experience to go through I.
Speaker 1:I know that anybody that I'm friends with in policing that had gone through street cop training loved it, fucking loved it. I mean spoke like you, you gotta go, you gotta go. When I started the podcast four years ago, everybody kept telling me you gotta get street cop guys on. And I'm like I, I don't know any of them. Like I don't know like you know I had just started.
Speaker 1:I was trying to figure out how to network and get a hold of people and stuff like that. So, um, now no problem, but at the time so every cop I respect that had gone through street cop training and I'm not blowing smoke if I was told your- training.
Speaker 2:I know the truth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I was told your training was garbage, I would be like, well, some of these guys didn't really care for you. But I never got that. The response I got back was it, bro, it was the shit, and it was fun to have instructors sit up there and talk and you knew that they weren't full of shit, that they'd actually been in the street and were doing the job for real.
Speaker 1:You're not getting that guy that you know went up the chain of command right last in in fucking like you got guys that were out there and did the shit and then whatever they talked about they were experts in. I was like see, that's legit, like you don't get the flat top guy.
Speaker 2:The flat top guy with the suit, that's not the guy. You're like the flat top guy, you know you got that guy. You're just like, oh no, here comes the flat top guy with the suit.
Speaker 1:Fuck, we're screwed yeah, and and when I heard that I'm not gonna lie, I started kind of looking up like some videos that I could find, and this was a few years back. But, um, I was sitting there like, damn, I would love to do what they're doing, like that would be fun. Like, do they do guest instructors? Because I teach all the time. I was a academy instructor, um, trying to change our. Just like you, I was so pissed off of my armbar takedown and like all this old school shit and I'm like what's? Use a russian tie, use this, use these things that are way more effective and boy.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's the funniest thing, like ppt yeah, have you been in a fight?
Speaker 1:do you know how that shit doesn't work? You need this, and so, um, I am glad to say where I'm at. Uh, our academy is very progressive, very open to change and looking at what works, I'm fucking glad Like.
Speaker 2:I'm not here to ruffle feathers, I'm here to provoke change. I want you to fucking hear what I'm saying and put your ego to the side and say you're right. Man, like, I don't need you to appease me, I need you to fucking hear me. Yeah Right, your program's from 1998, guys, it's time to fucking fix this shit. If you don't know how I'm going to ask you to reinvent it, let us help you. Yeah Right, it's not hard, I'm working on it. I'm giving you all this stuff. I actually have a whole program called Academy Tips that I'm writing right now for police academies, and it enemy tips.
Speaker 2:And start doing jujitsu. Start implementing radio using a radio from day one. Right, like, why would you wait to develop a radio here until you're in fucking field? Training makes no sense. Right, then take your radios, do foot pursuits. Do 15, 20 mock foot pursuits so you know what it's like to be in a foot pursuit. Change people, change locations, so you don't call the same thing all the time. Uh, then implement radios in jujitsu, because we know we're fighting, we got to communicate on the radio, like all these things that are so simple to do. Just start fucking doing them.
Speaker 2:Man, stop doing this. Get back, get back, get back. Nobody's ever gotten back, right, nobody's ever. You don't need to know a five-hour class on the fucking nomenclature of a handcuff with a five-question quiz. You fuck, you're so right. Oh shit, I know I'm right, but if you believe that you are the person who is the, the fucking king of this fucking academic institution, and I'm challenging the things that you have built, your fucking, your identity around these dumb fucking xerox tests, like I'm the asshole right because I'm challenging the things that you believe in, but who is telling the truth? And every person I say that you believe in, but who is telling the truth, and every person I say that to laughs and says you're so right. But they don't laugh and say you're right when you say that.
Speaker 2:No, we teach these guys what a long end portion of a baton is and a power safety tip. Nobody needs to know where the or the, the global heat units of oleoresin capsicum or what a hydraulic needle effect is or what the ulnar bone is and how you could damage the ulnar nerve. Like, what are you doing? Like there's so many things we could learn. Like you know how not to die, move and shoot right. Like, like there's all these things, there's so many resources and you guys still do the same stupid shit. That doesn't work all the fucking time and you're still sending fucking cops out there to fail consistently. And you're okay with it because, like your ceremony looks fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know how to march. Congratulations, dude, you're never— Like nothing—.
Speaker 2:When these guys get up and they're just like you know they got— who do they put on stage? They don't fucking honor the recruits. They honor who? The fucking freeholders and the fucking county officials and this chief, and they're fucking blowing each other all like bro, you just had 60 fucking men and women go through this. This whole thing. Let's. It's their day. Let's make it about their day. I want that captain so-and-so for providing us with high sea fruit punch on the hottest day of the. So like what are you?
Speaker 2:yeah and if it wasn't for this guy? And then our keynote speaker is just some dude who's friends with somebody. He's like I was an FBI agent for 25 years and what I can tell you is, and just like this guy's, the most boring guy in the world. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Why do you want to improve about police work?
Speaker 2:Bro, like, just make it about these guys. And the kicker is we're the best training institution in this state. Like, no, you're not. Just stop, you're not. You're not innovative, you're you. You could say that all you want, tell yourself the story you all you want. It's not true. Just stop saying it. Stop saying it. Stop making it about these guys, about these fucking other people besides the people who were there, and they're like the families are watching, like up. Next I'd like to introduce major So-and-so, this group of guys and girls. I told them a story about when I was a kid and found the stone. And so I'm going to tell you the stone story and like it's like 18 minutes later, and that's what I did with the stone, and you're just like what?
Speaker 1:How did we get here?
Speaker 2:Instagram the whole time Like what was that Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Now. If any cops out there listening to this and they're like, okay, street cop, cool, our training sucks, I know it sucks. How in the world do I start getting a hold of street cop to get?
Speaker 2:their train. Yeah, street copcom dude, the university is the is the game changing product, not like. I'm just helping you make a decision. Let you know that it exists. You don't have to buy it. It's a seven day free trial. This is not a pitch Like it exists. If you want to learn how to be a cop, it's $6 and 50 cents a month. Or you can buy a fucking Chick-fil-A sandwich every month with that $6 and 50 cents.
Speaker 2:So tell me it's not worth it. And I'll, like people were paying fucking a thousand dollars for this thing. I made it $99, this money. I'm like I don't, this is true shit. Like this went on for a while. I'm like I don't care. And they're like, dude, we're losing all this money. I'm like I don't care. There are 750,000 cops in this country and I have a couple thousand in a fucking thing. Like I don't care, I don't. That's make money. I made it so you don't fucking die, and I had to charge something for it and I can afford to do it if everybody joins in on it. But I made it for you so you don't die and you follow the constitution. That's really my goal is here.
Speaker 2:And guess what, guys, if I wanted money. I got offered multiple. My hand to God, god. I got offered multiple jobs this summer for seven figures, low seven figures. So that's a million plus with fuck to go ceo a few companies right, because people heard that I was available, people that I knew and were like, hey, I have this company, I have this company at that company that we need a ceo, we need a ceo, we need a ceo, I need a partner, I need this. Really Really talented people too. I got a division Open it up.
Speaker 2:I could start you at like $750,000 a year, plus bonus of 20%, you'll at least make $1.5 million. And I declined them and I went through the roughest two years of my financials ever in my life and I said I can't do it. I'm not trying to sell you, you don't owe me anything for this. Like I'm not trying to brag about this, I was just like, of all the times my life where I could say yes to a million dollars a year, I said no because I can't live knowing that I can help all you motherfuckers and I don't. I can't, I can't, can't drink that story, dude. It doesn't is I can't do it, I just can't.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry it's in the policing. I mean, it's your, it's your service serviceman's heart.
Speaker 2:That's the way I like it, it's, it's my service to humanity, bro. Like, like I. Like the proof is there. Follow us on instagram. Street cop training. Right, read the fucking post. Read the stories. I don't make it up. I don't sit here and conjure up success stories of how people's lives were saved. I'm gonna make every cop in this fucking country equal to the fucking if they participate in it. Equal to the level of a paramedic. I can't give you a paramedic license, but I'll make you equal to it in your training, right? Because, like, why aren't we paramedics? Oh, I know why. Because we're swinging sticks at bags and calling cadence. That's why we're not. Because you're taking three weeks at the academy that a high-speed paramedic course with some real good instructors yeah cops know how to like train the trainer.
Speaker 2:I want to train the trainer for a tourniquet application. Fuck. If your tourniquet applicator trainer is a fucking train the trainer student, you're fucked yeah, just so you know yep, I agree, all right I get it.
Speaker 2:He's like what do you want us to do? I'm like that's why I made it, that's why I made it so cheap. People still call like what's the agency rate? I'm like, guys, it's $8.20 a month before taxes. Right, like, before you deduct it, I'm asking for $100 a year per person. Yeah Right, 99 bucks. It's done, that's it. There's no, you got 30,000 guys need it. Give me a shout. You know, you got 3000 guys need. You got 30,000 guys in Eden. Give me a shout. You got 3,000 guys in Eden. Give me a shout. You got 12 guys at your agency.
Speaker 2:I'm not asking for a lot.
Speaker 1:We're putting a lot in there. So my question is like for, let's say, here in Texas we're T-Cole certified and all that stuff, if we were to do that where my agency is, is the curriculum transfer over to T-Cole credits and stuff like that?
Speaker 2:That's another thing, dude. Like you can make programs that transfer to T-Cole, or you can make programs that save and help cops, and so the bottom line is, yeah, they do. But like, you all gotta get off this bullshit of like Do I get credits for it? Motherfucker, you don't even know what you're doing On the goddamn road. You know nothing, nothing. So I don't spend my time trying to trying to fucking get t-code approve every single, and we're gonna.
Speaker 2:But, like, right now, I need to get that information out to you because, for free, on the website, as an order today was how to not die in the line of duty for the free program you can watch on our fucking website when you go to the university link, like they're like oh, which one do you want to put out that? Like it's like a, like a sample of what's going on. I'm like giving fucking one how not to dine a line of duty, and then there's like 20 more how not to line a line of duty videos inside the university. Yeah, so like, yes, we're going to be in the process of getting everything approved. However, stop waiting for everything to be approved. Go get the training you think you need, because I got to tell you they don't give a fuck how many you have when they're fucking putting fucking six feet of dirt over your fucking ass and that's the truth, or you're in a court fighting for your life.
Speaker 2:We're going to jail for three years because you didn't know what the fuck you were doing yep, I agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:That's a great point stop everybody needs to calm the fuck down about making sure they get. I get it. You need to get those credits done. Don't look at like I will get those for you, right, but don't start with that, because that's where you're going to find yourself finding things that are credit approved versus what you actually need.
Speaker 1:Fair. I mean you're not getting T-Core credits for your jujitsu gym, but you do it. I mean for those that take it serious. So, absolutely fair point. All right, brother, we'll wrap this up Get me out of here, bro.
Speaker 2:I had enough of this shit.
Speaker 1:I know I appreciate you. I'm glad to know this is the first time we've really sat down and talked, so I'm glad to know that your sense of humor is very similar to my own. So I think we'll be using you a little bit more down the line if you're open to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not doing two hours again, but that's cool. No, no, no, no, nothing like that. Um, yeah, the I told you it flies by and uh, everybody likes to talk to me, so you're welcome for my service, because I made it fly by, because I'm very interesting.
Speaker 1:God, we're gonna get along so well. I love it all. Right, bro, I'm gonna end this, everybody, thanks for listening.
Speaker 2:Come to our fucking conference dude. We have our conference nashville, tennessee, may 27th through may 28th's. The shit. Check out our lineup at streetcopcom. Do the conference. It's nuts, you got to come to that.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, All right brother.
Speaker 2:Downtown Nashville May 27th through 29th. You better be there. I did your stupid fucking podcast. Now show up to my conference.
Speaker 1:I like it Sounds good. Hang out for a second while I end this Take.
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