Two Cops One Donut
We were asked “what exactly is the point of this show?”Answer: social media is an underutilized tool by police. Not just police, but firefighters, DA’s, nurses, military, ambulance, teachers; front liners. This show is designed to reveal the full potential of true communication through long discussion format. This will give a voice to these professions that often go unheard from those that do it. Furthermore, it’s designed to show authentic and genuine response; rather than the tiresome “look, cops petting puppies” approach. We are avoiding the sound bite narrative so the first responders and those associated can give fully articulated thought. The idea is the viewers both inside and outside these career fields can gain realistic and genuine perspective to make informed opinions on the content. Overall folks, we want to earn your respect, help create the change you want and need together through all channels of the criminal justice system and those that directly impact it. This comes from the heart with nothing but positive intentions. That is what this show is about. Disclaimer: The views shared by this podcast, the hosts, and/or the guests do not in anyway reflect their employer or the policies of their employer. Any views shared or content of this podcast is of their opinion and not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything. 2 Cops 1 Donut is not responsible and does not verify for accuracy any of the information contained in the podcast series available for listening on this site or for watching shared on this site or others. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services.
Two Cops One Donut
Law Enforcement Leaders Discuss Training, Accountability, and Community Relations
You've heard the debates about police training, accountability, and use of force - but rarely from the inside. This candid conversation brings together Chief Scott Hughes, Sergeant Eric Levine, Banning Sweatland, and rookie officer Trey to unpack what's really happening in modern policing.
The numbers are shocking: barbers require 1800 hours of training, cosmetologists need 1500, but police officers - who can legally take a human life - receive just 740 hours before hitting the streets. "We're not giving them enough training where you're increasing heart rate, blood pressure, pulse, breathing, all that and then making them make decisions in those moments," explains Chief Hughes, highlighting how inadequately we prepare officers for real-world stress.
Through live analysis of body camera footage, the panel examines critical incidents including an apparent suicide-by-cop situation and a case where officers mistook a cell phone for a weapon. Their commentary reveals how split-second decisions unfold and why multiple officers often fire numerous rounds - context that's frequently missing from headlines.
Technology presents both solutions and new challenges. From license plate readers to body cameras that automatically activate when weapons are drawn, these tools create accountability but require proper training and ethical frameworks. "Every keystroke is matched," Levine notes about modern police systems, emphasizing how difficult it is for officers to misuse information without detection.
Perhaps most revealing is their honest assessment of police leadership failures. "One of our biggest issues with recruitment and retention isn't what's going on in the media, it's leadership inside the organizations," Hughes admits. This disconnect between command staff and patrol officers creates systemic problems that affect both officer well-being and public safety.
Whether you're pro-police, critical of law enforcement, or somewhere in between, this episode offers rare insights into the complexities facing modern officers and the reforms needed to protect both citizens and the officers sworn to serve them.
#police #lawenforcement #cops #bridgethegap #bethechange
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Welcome to Two Cops One Donut podcast. The views and opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Two Cops One Donut, its host or affiliates. The podcast is intended for entertainment and informational purposes only. We do not endorse any guests' opinions or actions discussed during the show. Any content provided by guests is of their own volition and listeners are encouraged to form their own opinions. Furthermore, some content is graphic and has harsh language. Viewer discretion advised and is intended for mature audiences. Two Cops One Donut and its host do not accept any liability for statements or actions taken by guests. Thank you for listening. All right, welcome back to Cops One Donut. I'm your host, sergeant Eric Levine. I got with me my co-host, banning Sweatland, and I have. Our special guest tonight is Chief Scott Hughes. How are you doing, sir?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great. Just call me Scott. Happy to be here, looking forward to the episode.
Speaker 1:Okay, we've already got people gifting memberships. Looks like Constitutional Country Girl threw out 10 memberships. So, first and foremost, country Girl, you rock. Thank you very much. But let's just see for funsies, who all got some memberships. Because we have a drinking game every time marine bloods doesn't get an account, everybody's got a drink. So l wall got one. Uh, tassie rar, that's a a different name there. Vince 07. Eric walls. Victor r, kylie rose. Oh, mama G got one. That's good. Mama G talks a lot on here. Pat Mahelan got one. Falk Around and Find Out one of my favorite names. And Pravis Pravis gets it. All right, I like it. Bunch of good people got some memberships there. But you know who didn't get a membership? Marineblood Salud. You know who didn't get a membership? Marine blood.
Speaker 4:Salute. I noticed we got Megan Stockburger in the in the audience. Thank you for joining us, megan.
Speaker 2:We appreciate it oh hey.
Speaker 1:Megan, what's up? I'm looking through the comments. I don't see that one.
Speaker 4:It's the third one down from the top. Oh yeah, I see it now.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Smiley face. I love this trio I can't. I can't with this trio. Oh, I love it. Uh, andy fletcher, she's cutting into your action, brock, because brock always buys memberships for everybody. Uh, uh, oh. Brock tried to go for 20 memberships. I don't know if it'll let him. Let's's see, he's going early, holy shit. Oh my God, please, no Marine Bloods Out of 20. That'd be funny as hell. Let's see, first and foremost, if he doesn't get it, I'd say by the next show.
Speaker 4:He really needs to look at his freaking settings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's got to be with his settings, but let's go through. Fiery Soul got one. David Thompson. David Thompson finally got one. Hey, scott Megan wants to know where your head is.
Speaker 2:I just saw that. Oh right, I got these stupid headphones on. I'm representing over here.
Speaker 1:Man, that's a cool-ass name right there. I hope they have some sort of business. Centurion Tactical. Bz Watchdog got one, let's see. Stuck in. Got one, let's see stuck in oz. Matt holmes, blade blade shields oh, blade shields talks quite a bit on here. Uh, the douglas podcast shout out laurie mary. Gnomes of nigh, that's a fun name. I like that. Uh, speaking of grew up watching david the gnome, if you guys remember that cartoon. Samuel roberts, anthony delgado, michael d oh and mag dump acorn. Mag dump um. Classic. Samuel Roberts, anthony Delgado, michael D oh and Magdump Acorn Magdump Classic police name after one iconic officer got attacked by an acorn.
Speaker 2:Jesus.
Speaker 1:Sucks to be a guy. Fuck that guy, bro. You unloaded on a suspect in a car because you got attacked by an acorn. I got no sympathy for that man. Let's see here, my mama's on and Steve Ladner's on. He had a 24-hour ban last time. Let's see. Let's see, I'm going to give him a chance. Let's see. Tell us how it's okay for domestic terrorists to pull residents over and take cash. All right, strike one, steve Laidner. You're already starting out. Buddy, what the hell was what man? I wish he'd just come quick, because he probably has a lot of good questions to ask, but he's one of our trolls. He jumps on and just I was going to say that was a.
Speaker 1:He can't control himself. Three minutes in. Wow Lofton's. Like how much have you drank already? Not much. I'm actually drinking some Casamigos tonight. So if you guys are tequila fans, I like it.
Speaker 1:Beezy Watchdog in the house Hell yeah, let's see Wade Lucero. What's up, brother, Trying to get through all this stuff. But before we get started, you know we went through and saying hello to everybody. Oh, Shotguns and Tattoos is in the house too. We got David Edmonston. So I'm just saying what's up to all of our regulars. Tim is in the house. What's up, Tim?
Speaker 1:We actually you might not know this, Scott, but one of the things that we do for our dedicated is we'll pull them on the show. We've had Tim. We had Kingslayer was one of the other names. He had a legal issue that we were discussing and hashed out on here. By the end of it I still don't think we fully agreed, but we met some mutual understanding and actually gave us some good perspective on a legal argument that we had not considered. So it was pretty cool. Yeah, it's a dude, Eric, you can't do that. I'm trying to get smokehouse sponsoring you on the show. Man, hey, listen, I've been faithful to smoke smoke wagon for uh, since, uh, since we started. But summertime comes, man, I switch over to the tequila, Unless they want to jump on board. Man, I've been pretty faithful. I still drink it.
Speaker 4:Just send them your blood results, show them it's in your blood.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. But I want to make this beginning part about our special guest, scott. Nobody knows you here. Necessarily Some do, but the majority don't. So tell people about yourself, what you got going on, who you are, what you do. All that good stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, you know I first of all, it's an honor to be on here. I hate to tell people I'm a chief, because as soon as people hear chief, they start getting this impression of what a police chief is and and anybody who knows?
Speaker 2:yeah, see, that's why I don't want to say chief. That's why I noticed that you notice your title says Sergeant and mine just says Scott Hughes. Right, it's true, because if it would have said chief, you would people would not be watching the show tonight. They'd be like why in the hell are you bringing on this chief of police who probably forgot where he came from? And that's my biggest pet peeve. So, so, uh, I've been in law enforcement since the mid-1990s. Um, I'm out here in ohio. So thank you, texas, for letting this, this yankee, come on your program tonight.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that and, by the way, originally it's close.
Speaker 2:It is getting close to my bedtime, just just fine, but no, so yeah. So I started out like a lot of cops. Uh, you know, back in the day in ohio you had to get yourself a commission held um within one year of graduating the police academy. You know you could go to these community colleges and when you graduated you didn't care if you were working as a special deputy or you were working a part-time job somewhere, you just wanted, wanted to find a job. And a lot of us started out in this small, small towns in nowhere, ohio. And that's what I did.
Speaker 2:So worked in a really small town, a couple of traffic lights, for a couple of years, realized very quickly there has to be more law enforcement than this. So I left there, went to a larger agency, about 60-man department, just outside of Cincinnati Ohio, spent about 17 years there, and whenever I tell real cop stories that's where I always tell the stories from. I did a lot of the cool things that a lot of us strive to be in law enforcement. You know, ran a street crimes team, was a traffic officer, was a field training officer, ran our explorer program, did a lot of really cool cop things when I worked there and then I honestly I got bored and I started looking around and realized that I was hitting a ceiling at that agency and decided, probably for my own sanity, I needed to go find something else to do. Um, just because I wanted, I wanted to be challenged and I wanted, I wanted more opportunity and nothing against the agency, just the opportunities were not there. So I left there, went to become an assistant chief of police in the city just outside of Dayton Ohio. I was there for a short time when the chief's position opened up here in Hamilton Township Ohio.
Speaker 2:So I'm between kind of Cincinnati and Columbus in the Dayton area. We're your typical suburb 30 some square miles, about 36, 37,000 residents, whatever. But really what's? What's cool is for the last 13 years I've been traveling the country teaching for Caliber Press, so a lot of folks recognize the Street Survival Seminar. I recognize the books there over my shoulder. For the last several years I've been working as an expert witness defending cops and lawsuits across the country and opened up my own consulting business not too long ago. So staying busy. And the reason I'm on this show is I sit on the board for the national law enforcement officers hall of fame with Banning and Megan, who's on the call, and, uh, it's like I said, it's an honor to be here. I'm looking forward to what we're going to talk about tonight and happy to answer any questions that anybody might have. So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 4:I think you'll agree with me, scott. Sitting on this board watching what we get to watch throughout the year and at the actual ceremony itself, is the most humbling. Gets used so much, but it is the most humbling experience that I've had in law enforcement is to watch these amazing heroes from around the country go above and beyond.
Speaker 4:You know it's so hard for me to explain to somebody who's never been there what it truly is, and I wish and we're going to get more people involved with it. It's such an amazing opportunity to go see one of these events at the National Law Enforcement Office, or a whole thing.
Speaker 2:There are. So there are so many cops doing good work around this country that they're not being recognized for it. And you know, I've always said, as a leader, I have one job. My only job is, whether it was a sergeant, as an assistant chief or as a chief. Now I got one job and that's take care of my people. My only job is to make sure that my men and women go home at the end of their shift and I'm gonna do everything in my power to give them the tools, the resources, the equipment and what they need to do their job, and do their job to the best of their ability. That's the only reason I exist.
Speaker 2:You know, we always say we didn't invent Sargent's to put stripes on sleeves. We didn't invent them. We didn't promote you so you could do less. You make more money because you're expected to do more Right. So you know, yeah, we got to get people involved. I think the law, I think I told Megan this I think that the National Law Enforcement Hall of Fame is. I think this, I think this year was the springboard for what's coming. I just think it's going to be phenomenal. It's just going to continue to grow and grow and we need to get more and more people involved, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things that we were trying to do Scott it didn't quite work out as well as we hoped this year is get people like this in the audience to hear these same stories from the Hall of Fame, because I think it's even more important, for there's a lot of people in this audience that they want to have accountability on cops, and that's.
Speaker 1:There's nothing wrong with that. I think we all agree on this panel that we bad cops. You know, nobody hates a bad cop worse than good cops and when they get to actually hear the stories of what real police heroic work looks like and not even just heroic work, there's community outreach stuff that gets highlighted, there's all these different things, and my crowd knows I'm an optimist and when I tell people like no, no, there's a ton of badass stories with cops, it's just, your algorithms are geared towards bad cop stuff. So I'm like this is the stuff I'm seeing and I I try to do a balance. You know we'll we'll talk about bad cop stuff, but we'll talk about the good cop stuff. Well, that's a whole night of good cop stuff. That isn't them puffing themselves up, it's somebody else that did it for them. And that's what I tried to highlight and we had pretty good, I mean for what we could show. We had good feedback. Everybody seemed to like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I think I've always said you're going to have people that hate the cops, no matter what you do, those people are never going to change. You're always going to have people on this side that hate the cops, no matter what you do. Those people are never going to change. You're always going to have people on this side that love the cops, no matter what the cops do, and you're not going to change them. But there's more people in the middle that are smart enough to think for themselves and not just believe what they read online or what they watch on the news. So those are the groups I always like to educate. I don't worry about the ones that are never going to like us, because I'm never going to change them and I respect that and that's their opinion. I know that going in, so I'm not going to worry about them. I appreciate the ones that love us all the time. I'm not going to focus on you a lot. It's this bigger group in the middle that I think we have to target.
Speaker 1:And I think we do. What he's saying is you exist to defend we, the people, and I think that is a retort to you saying that your job at the end of the day is to get your guys home. Guys, it's not mutually exclusive. That's the chief's not saying his only job is just to get his people home safe. He also wants to defend you, the people, probably not going to change andy fletcher?
Speaker 1:no, andy, actually he he's, he'll have real conversation, okay, but they, they like to, they like to poke our new people um to see, to see. So, uh, you're not going to get them riled up, guys, but but they will ask tough questions and I won't shy away from the tough questions. If it's something that you don't feel comfortable answering, fine, we'll just move on to something new. But, um, this is kind of like the fun part about doing what we do is just the audience gets to participate and uh, yeah. And then, um, so, constitutional country girl. She said I saw her question somewhere. Where did it go? Here it is, and I can elaborate, I think, for her.
Speaker 1:She said do you send your subordinates to rehab for their crack ID addictions? And what she is referring to is cops constantly asking for ID, even when it's unwarranted, and they don't have a right to ID. So one of the arguments I always try to tell people is like, look, we can ask, you can say no, but there's a lot of times we'll see these videos of cops demanding ID. I got a call here, so therefore I have a right to see your ID and I know that's not right, but you as a chief, is there something that you push down for training for your people? That's like hey guys, this is when we can get IDs, this is when we don't have a right to, but we can always ask how do you?
Speaker 1:work it with your guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I can only speak for here in Ohio and our law and there is a failure to identify statue, and I don't have the ORC, the Ohio Revised Code, put up in front of me. You, but I don't have the ORC, the Ohio Revised Code, pull up in front of me. But essentially what it says is if you're investigating a crime, someone suspected of a crime, whatever that exact verbiage is, then yes, you can ask for certain information name, address, date of birth, basic questions but you can't ask questions if age is part of the crime, right? So if you're investigating underage drinking or something like that, then there's a provision there. But it's a provision there, but it's very specific. So that's a broad question for me to answer because I can't speak for all 50 states, you know.
Speaker 1:Right, right, so yeah, for all. I mean, it's pretty much the same in Texas. We have to suspect you have a crime and you have to be Basically in Texas. It's either on a traffic stop or you're under arrest. That's the only time we can take your ID or get your ID from you. Now, I'm not sure if it's that way in every state, but what's that? Say Eric check? Oh sorry, I'm getting beckoned over here. Oh shit, mr Billfold can't chat in the. I don't know why. I didn't do anything with his name. Let me Banny. I'm going to let you control the maestro there for a little bit.
Speaker 1:You bet While I try to unlock for Mr Billfold to see what the dealio is here.
Speaker 4:Just for Grin Scott, why don't you? Because you went to a coveted academy that when I was a municipal law enforcement I wanted to go to so bad and you went to the FBI National Academy. Can you give just a 30,000 foot view on why? What's the importance of the National Academy in reference to our law enforcement across the country?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question. So there's. There's probably two or three elite leadership trainings that are recommended for for folks that want to advance in law enforcement, and the FBI National Academy is undoubtedly one of those top you know two or three. It's basically 10 weeks where you you live in Quantico, virginia, at the FBI Academy and you're taught by what I believe are some of the best instructors in the business. It's both physically demanding and academically demanding. One of the big takeaways there is you get to network with other leaders from not just the United States but around the world. When I went last year, we had about I think 25 or so international students. When I went last year, we had about I think 25 or so international students. And what I found interesting about the FBI National Academy is no matter where you are in the world, we're all dealing in some regards with some of the same issues. So it was neat to bounce ideas off of each other and how they deal with how they deal with various situations Pretty cool.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I highly recommend it. Two more questions in reference to that is is I want you after this first one, the second question, just so you can think about it, is I'm sure you did the yellow brick road. I'm sure you've got your brick. But in regards to that, when you said you got to meet with other world law enforcement and some of those get to attend the class while you were there, your take before you went to the Academy and now that you've gone to it, what is another country that you think is trying to bring up their game in reference to law enforcement, just from the, the folks that you got to meet from around, if that makes sense, who is trying to really do policing better in their countries other than the united states?
Speaker 2:I can't think of one specific country that were so many of them that were represented, what I can tell you. And man, where was he from? He put me on the spot, banny. No, that's okay, that's okay, but he lost several members of his department while he was there. It's very. What country was he from? I can't remember. From a very, very, very violent country where they're, uh, they like bombed, they like, you know, uh, firebombed the police precinct and just killed multiple of you know of his co-workers. While we're there and and you know, you think there's times where you think man, it's, it's so bad here, and then you hear this guy, you know this guy's story and he and it happened like week two, right, so he stuck around for week seven, week eight, week nine, like he stayed like uh, which was pretty impressive, yeah good.
Speaker 1:Um, I need to do some clarification. Mr billfold got hidden and I think he got hidden when I tried to hide Steve Ladner from the chat last week and he had messaged me and I was like, well, we'll try it again next time. He said I'm no longer being oppressed by my favorite popos. Oh shit, I am so sorry, mr Billfold. I I I must've done it on accident trying to trying to get rid of numb nuts and uh, Eric has actually done that to another person. Yeah, he did.
Speaker 4:Changing the course of this podcast, of the settings or whatever, and he did that inadvertently to somebody else.
Speaker 1:That's why I need a moderator. Hashtag you guys sit with Alan, but where is he at now? Son of a bitch. This is Alan's fault. Mr Bill Gold wouldn't have got hidden, wouldn't have got, uh, hidden if, if Alan had been doing his damn job, so he's like Mr Bill. I was typing up a storm all last week. I gotta look going through.
Speaker 2:I gotta look at these profile pictures.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, it's so funny Hilarious. Mr Billfold is a devil dog himself.
Speaker 2:Nice, nice.
Speaker 1:Nice. Oh, by the way, mr Billfold went ham and got three retro rifle shirts, oh, hell yes, one of which I am envious of. I'd never seen it before. It's badass, it's all black, it's got these skulls on it. It's pretty sweet. So, um, we got him drinking the Kool-Aid, so happy, happy to see that.
Speaker 4:Well, he's just a good dude, and what I like is is, even though we've he's met us halfway in a lot of things, it doesn't stop him asking questions. It doesn't stop him bringing his heart to the game on what he's seen, what he's seen, what he's heard, this and that, and he doesn't just drink the milk and go forth. And that's what we love about this. We're not your typical echo chamber. We say that all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, country girl. See, she's giving me shit already. She's like you grouped him with that douche nozzle talking about hey, you guys be careful, steve's going to be back here in like four minutes.
Speaker 1:I only banned him for 10 minutes see if he'll see if he'll straighten up. I wonder who he's harassing on this. I just here's my thing, scott and banny. I just I want everybody have the opportunity to ask and talk about the hard stuff on here. Yeah, he obviously is passionate because he is steadfast at trolling us about hating on police, which is fine. You Just do it respectfully. That's all I ask. And he just refuses to do it. So until he does, he's just going to keep getting partial bans.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to ban him for life or anything like that, because I am a First Amendment type guy, but we're just not going to entertain it. And when you get everybody in the crowd against you, you've got to get rid of you for a little bit. So I follow the three-strike you like I gotta get rid of you for a little bit. So I I followed three strike rules on every live. I'll let him keep trying to come back, so we'll see how it goes. Harrison brock said two cops, one donut. How did you get into the united states air force? They are mostly tech. People believe it or not. I'm not. I'm okay with the tech, but no you fixed.
Speaker 2:You fixed my light right, you got my light working.
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, see, okay, in certain things, andy fletcher, I'd swallow a bullet before I did that. Do what, sir? Don't swallow any bullets, please don't do that, don't do that tim said oh, he will be back and I will put him in his place. Country girl, look, I got the troops all rallied. Country girl, I'll slap him down again. He's like a broken record. Uh-oh, I heard somebody else pop in. Did you hear that? Oh, there it is. Uh-oh, it's Alan Boo, uh-oh.
Speaker 2:He looks glitchy, alan.
Speaker 1:Boo, and he looks glitchy. Alan Alan's on that broke-ass internet. At least he was able to show off his retro rifle shirt real quick. I think he's on an airplane I don't know what he's on, doesn't it sound like an?
Speaker 2:airplane? I don't know.
Speaker 1:All right, alan, when you get your shit smoothed out, we'll come back to you. Now hold on. Who's who was that.
Speaker 2:Uh, so alan is a um police, texas police officer.
Speaker 1:Uh now he's in the reserves, oh yeah, and but um, he is one of our moderators. Uh, does the background stuff I got you, but he is out on the road working right now, so yeah, Mr. Bill Fultz. He's already amped up. He's like when he says you've all day self-proclaimed heroes, or you've all day we drink. He's trying to make a drinking game out of that troll. Oh, that's funny. That is funny. I'm trying to figure out. Oh yeah, in the UK they jailed citizens for Facebook posts. He's not wrong.
Speaker 2:I heard about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, crazy, just looking through the comments.
Speaker 2:By the way, I'm from Ohio and I'm drinking up a Phillies cup.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean it's cool. I know you saw my Go Blue stuff that I put up there. I ignored it. I knew you did. I it's cool. I know you saw my go blue stuff that I put up there. I ignored it. I knew you did, I ignored it. I see it all.
Speaker 4:I just keep going. I think your mom even said something there, yeah, well where do you think I became a fan from?
Speaker 1:It was from mom, Right right Back in the day, like when Desmond Howard and all those guys were on the team. Oh, desmond Howard, oh wow, yeah, don't drink the water, don't drink the water.
Speaker 4:I don't know if I told you, scott, but I went to high school in a little tiny town on the east side of Ohio called Toronto.
Speaker 2:Ohio, it's just north of Steubenville, south of Youngstown. Yeah, I think a couple years ago at one of our board meetings you told me that when I first met you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was recruited out of the Marine Corps there so I got to get to the real training out of Parris Island, east of the Mississippi.
Speaker 2:So I'm glad I was recruited out of Ohio. Yeah, yeah, Well you were. I mean back in the day, that was a nice part of Ohio.
Speaker 4:I mean, it was a, it was back in the yeah, back in the day, Back in the day.
Speaker 1:Scott, can I ask you from a chief's perspective on disciplinary stuff okay, Now you get an officer that clearly screws up, violates somebody. You know somebody's rights One of the most common ones that we get on here in question so I want to pose this to you. You get First Amendment auditors right and you'll get officers that the auditor is clearly on a public sidewalk. They force ID. They end up arresting them or detaining them for disorderly because they don't agree with whatever. Basically it becomes pissed off police. You know, as we refer to in training and stuff, that's a common case of POP Yep. So you get that. How do you handle that from the chief level?
Speaker 2:Well, I think you start with the officer, right. What is the officer's level of experience right? Is this a reoccurring issue? That you're having An officer on day one? Are they going to be more likely to make a mistake like that as opposed to a 30-year officer? And I think we all can agree yeah, when you're brand new, you know, you don't know where the bathroom is in the police department yet, let alone how to deal with some guy on the sidewalk who's challenging you and trying to push you to do exactly what he wants you to do.
Speaker 2:So I think the biggest thing for me when looking at discipline, first of all, I'll just say this I think in most law enforcement organizations around this country, we are so quick to discipline cops that it beats the morale into the toilet and it just impacts the culture and it impacts retention. I've always felt like we got to remind people that we use discipline to change behavior, to make our people better. It's not to necessarily punish them. Now, are there going to be those cases where, hey, this person did something that at the end of the day, it is what it is? Of course there are. Contrary to what some might think, I feel like most police officers can appreciate accountability when it's done fairly, when it's done uniformly, but you also have to keep in mind the individual that you're dealing with, I think.
Speaker 2:When I teach leadership classes around the country, I always say that it's easy to lead black and white, excuse me. It's easy to manage black and white. It's hard to lead in the gray, right. I don't have to tell either one of you, gentlemen, or any of these folks that are on here listening, that we all have worked for supervisors or are aware of supervisors who rely on that policy manual to to. Uh, that that's how they that's how they quote unquote lead, right. They just well, you violated 306.2, dash seven of this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and you get this right. And there's no attempt to try to change the officer's behavior to make him or her better, it's just boom, we smack them down with discipline and they walk out the door. Uh, I've heard stories around this country of cops who have been written up through email, suspended via a text message. Just insane. Like what are we doing, right? No wonder we can't keep cops. But that's a different, that's probably a different episode. That's not the question you asked me.
Speaker 2:I deal with them on a case-by-case example, or I would, in this case, deal with it as a case-by-case example and look at the person. Have we provided them with the training that they need? Because, again, I'm not telling you something that you two don't know and your folks on here don't know is, a lot of the times, it's our own fault because we haven't given them what they need to be successful in this job. I just told you a little bit ago, for 13 years been traveling the country training cops, coast to coast, and we talk about training and we still are putting police officers in front of computers just like this and saying, hey, watch this webinar, and that's going to be your training. We're going to watch a webinar on use of force. We're going to watch a webinar on decision-making. We're going to watch a webinar on decision-making. We're going to watch a webinar on de-escalation everybody's favorite buzzword and that's going to be training. That's not training. That's information or learning crap. That's check the box. That's exactly what it is is. Check the box, exactly what it is.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go to some of the comments. Comments here Andy Fletcher saying we see 30-year guys do it too. I think what he was saying is it makes a difference if it's a rookie versus a 30-year officer doing it. A 30-year officer should know better.
Speaker 1:So, the disciplinary action will be higher. And Mr Belford said it's not a training problem, it's a culture problem, Disagree and nonsense. Cops are protected from within. There are thousands of videos showing this and I think that you guys I agree there are a lot of videos out there that we find out that the cop never faced discipline or nothing significant when they could have been fired or even charged. In some cases that does happen. Significant when, when they could have been fired or even charged in some cases that does happen.
Speaker 1:But what you don't see is in, just like I've told you guys on the show, even just at my own department alone, every year there has been officers fired, charged or convicted. Every single year that I've been here, Um, and that's. It's not just one a year, it's been multiple. Some years it's been three or four one year. It's like it varies, but every year that's. It's not just one a year, it's been multiple. Some years it's been three or four one year. It's like it varies, but every year that's just that one department. So it happens all the time. You just never hear about it.
Speaker 2:So I I think it just depends on your view you know, I tell you too, I and you and I apologize if you brought this up before, but and I'll just use my state as an example I'm going to give, just give you some whole numbers 1800 hours to be a barber. 1500 hours to be a cosmetologist about 740 hours be a police officer Right now you look at that number across the country and you're going to see similar numbers, similar results. Yet Look at the and again, this is nothing against any one of those professions, right? But when you look at, when you look at the, the, the number of hours that it takes to do this job, right, the only people that can legally take a life right Of a of another citizen, that's a lot of power that comes with that. And we're giving them 740 ish hours of training. And then, if we do any mandatory training, we're going to put you in front of a computer screen for 16 or 24 hours a year and that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have officers who are just they're out on the street and they're not prepared to deal with the realities that that they face. And, um, you know, there are folks who think that we just, you know, flip a switch and we're going to make the right decision every single time. And that's just, that's not. That's not how human, human nature works. It's just, it's not that easy. But again and don't. And you know, one of the questions should be well then, how many hours did you have? And the answer is I can't give you that. I can't give you that answer. I can tell you that $740,000 or $800,000 or $1,000 is still significantly lower than a lot of other jobs again across the country. When you look at that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mr Belfort said violations of rights are the same over and over, coast to coast, all levels understanding what trespass laws are, what the Fourth Amendment is, and basics.
Speaker 1:Ego policing is cultural and I agree with him on the ego, especially to the point where I work, which we don't mention where I work.
Speaker 1:But we have created an ego class to describe the scientific reasons behind it the part of your brain that you're thinking with, when you're thinking logically and you're trying to work through something where you'll tend to de-escalate things and process things where you'd want to, versus where you're thinking with the wrong part of your brain, the amygdala and stuff like that and you're thinking emotionally the wrong part of your brain, the amygdala and stuff like that and you're thinking emotionally and typically. And, scott, you tell me if you've seen the same. But every time we see these cops that get themselves into trouble, there's that switch. They were thinking clearly logically, then all of a sudden they start thinking emotionally and when that emotional hijack takes over, it's like they don't recognize it and there's nobody training our officers on that switch. So we're noticing a deficiency. There's obviously a deficiency there, so we need to fix it, you know the sudden onset of acute stress really affects decision-making, right.
Speaker 2:And again, when you look at the kind of training that we're giving police officers, again, when you look at the kind of training that we're giving police officers, we're not giving them enough training where you're increasing heart rate, blood pressure, pulse, breathing, all that and then making them make decisions in those moments. Right, we use Andy Griffith and Barney Fife. Now, some of your listeners are going to be have to Google Andy Griffith show, okay, and I respect that. But right, if you, if you look up, if you, if you've seen the Andy Griffith show, and while it's, while it's a fictional TV show, andy brain and Barney brain, right, andy was always able to just handle everything with precision and he never had to raise his voice, he was always smooth and you know no big deal. And then Barney was all right, all scatterbrained, everything, everything amped him up and got him excited and got him fired up and he didn't know how to control that.
Speaker 2:Right now I'm not making excuses for some, because there are some out there who you know, no matter what you do, they just, they just can't turn it off. But you look at the experience between Andy and Barney, right, you look at the experience levels in your agencies. Right? If I take a brand new police officer for six months on the job and I put him in a high stress critical incident, he or she is most likely going to perform differently at six months on the job than a six-year veteran. Right, going to perform differently at six months on the job than a six-year veteran.
Speaker 2:Right, if I take a six-month officer who's worked in a let's call it low crime area and all of a sudden now I put him or her in a high-stress critical incident moment, they're going to perform different than someone who deals with the critical incidents all the time. Right, the further you're removed from violence, the more likely you're to think it's not going to happen to me, and the further and further and further and further and further it gets. Then, when these situations happen, boom. Now you sometimes see these overreactions, or what some might call an overreaction, to these stressful situations.
Speaker 1:Right Because they haven't practiced it, you lose it, and so I'm going to address Patrick True Love's comment. I don't like the excuse about money and training. Some stuff needs to be set in stone as the same training, no matter where you work indefinitely need longer training, this is our point. I agree 100%. This is our point. But when you work in a small city and the last time you touched anything about the First Amendment and your right to video record on a public sidewalk was the Academy and you finally face your first time First Amendment auditor four years later because it's a small town and that shit goes on there, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, most agencies in America are less than 20 people. Right, you know, I, in fact I was teaching a class I'll never forget. I was teaching a class in texas and there was probably 250 people in in the room and I was teaching a class that typically doesn't attract chiefs, and I was going around the room how many of you here patrol, how many of your supervisors? Any chiefs in the room? And I was ready to move on and one hand went in the air and I said, oh, chief, thanks for being here. I don't get many chiefs in this class. I said, um, how big is your department? Where are you from? And he went yep. And I went, what's that? And he goes, you're looking at it Like he was it. He was a one man show. He was the only officer in that town. Holy shit, right, yeah, and, and you, you know, and you get around this country, you, you find out real quick when you get outside of these, these, these, these, these urban areas, it gets rural real fast in america, real fast that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Um sorry, my internet like popped out for a second and then popped right back in, dropped my youtube channel over here. Um so uh, andy fletcher said when told the law by citizens with statute number and they refuse to even look as a culture problem and I I would agree like that's bullshit. If somebody specifically calls out a direct law number to me, I'm like, oh like, even in my own head as a cop, I'm like, oh fuck, maybe they know something, I don't, so let me go check this out. Like that's an ego issue. Go ahead Banning.
Speaker 4:I want to address one of these. Tim put up a good question on there Speaking about an elderly lady that got stopped and there's four or five police cars with them, a WTF or WTH, whatever he said. I can speak on that on on some things that happened that I've seen in my career and this is going to sound lazy, but this it is what it is. Depending on the time of day cops eat, they got to pick an hour in there within their 12 hour shift. It could be that they're a big enough shift to where three to four can go, because there's eight or nine on patrol and they can get everybody knocked out. And one of their motivators that's going to lunch with them decides to either pop traffic on the way and they're all on their way to lunch and they're like crap, we can't go till Officer Schmuckatelli is done with the stop and they all pull over and put on their back flashing lights and they're sitting in their cars waiting for Schmuckatelli to finish up his freaking traffic stop. Then they clear and they pull into IHOP McDonald's, pick your flavor and then they're done.
Speaker 4:However, there's another twist to that. Dispatch will receive information about a larger crime, something that occurred to a victim putting out a vehicle description enough for an officer to believe that he has probable cause enough to stop a reasonable suspicion, enough to stop this vehicle and investigate. And if it's a horrible crime to where you may need some more officers to pull over, they get up there, identify same exact car However it's not them and then they all clear if it's somebody with a weapon or something like that and backup may come. And I can understand that 100%, being a supervisor running the agency on the side of patrol. Hearing that man, you had X amount of officers on a traffic stop. I'm going to look into why did we have that? It usually pans out in the end, but if it doesn't, it's a training issue and we get that trained out and, scott, I would love your opinion on that.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks, how many times have we been dispatched to a call for service or we've been alerted to a situation that's unfolding, and we get there and it's absolutely nothing anywhere close to how that call came out, right? Uh, that person in the blue, in the blue Buick, just threatened me with a gun, and that's the information you have. So guess what? Four or five cops get there and then you get the car pulled over and you find out it's nothing more than a uh, uh, you, more than some dispute over a parking space or something, and that, unfortunately, in my experience that's happened more times than I care to admit where we thought we were being dispatched for one thing and then it ends up being something completely, completely different, and sometimes even unfounded. Right, and you got this. You think about these, these, um, these swatting issues right now that are going on around the country, right where people are legit calling in, these, these bogus calls, deploying all these resources.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's it, but you're spot on you gotta gotta highlight this, mr billfold calling out some marine jargon going on there oh, I could used the terminology shitbird, but I decided not to say that, even though I just said it.
Speaker 1:Trey was on for a second. I think he's just showing us. Hey, I would be on, but I'm babysitting my own child again. I was going to say. Somebody popped up and they went away. He got his dad's life. Trey Mosley, he's a California cop. He's our rookie. He's been, he's got three years on the job.
Speaker 2:So oh, very good, yeah, so he's, uh, thank you.
Speaker 1:Another service another perspective that we have california yep, uh-oh country girl's going off. Let me see, I am sick to death of seeing what seems like cops forgetting that they pull over or call. Pull over or call is for a break, like violation turns into a citizen being tased, brutalized, etc.
Speaker 4:For asking what stop they were asking why they were stopped oh, oh, oh, yeah well okay. Yes, I don't know that for a fact, but right.
Speaker 1:So, okay, I understand that frustration, and this again goes into social skills with me Most. There are some cops that use the technique like I'm not saying anything until I get your ID, in case this person runs or they're wanted for something, or whatever it is that we're not aware of. They want to at least be able to see a name, put it with. Whoever that is, and according to the law, at least except for California. California is the only one that's different. According to the law, they're not required to tell you. Now I think the policy at almost every department I've ever heard of is the seven or eight step violator Stop, I'm officer such and such. I work with such and such department. The reason I pulled you over is this or any reason you were doing that. You got your license, registration, proof of insurance. Bah, that's it technique of I'm gonna get their id first because they've had people run on them. So that's the technique they use on everybody.
Speaker 1:So then it gets into a social skills issue. If I'm dealing with somebody that I see is going to be like no, I'm not telling you shit until you tell me why you pulled me over, I'm like, okay, fair enough, pulled you over for this. Can I get your id now? Now, if they don't give me the id now, we have problems. I, I met I. I met you halfway. Let's use a little bit of social skills, emotional intelligence and realize that this person isn't like 99% of the stops, and that isn't because you have an unmet. Expectation is not a reason to get pissed off, and that's why cops start to get mad because they get that emotional hijack.
Speaker 4:In my career of 21 plus being over officers, I've only had two that I can think of that I've received traffic complaints over, of rudeness etc. Of course we do random, we watch body camera footage, we watch dash camera footage. We want to make sure everything's good out there. But when you get that you know official, even if it's a call-in complaint. In the state of texas you got to come in and make a complaint, a written complaint etc. But if I even get that call and complaint from dispatch I do my due diligence because that's one of my guys or girls out there and I go pull that body camera footage, what's going on? And 99.9 of the time it nothing. But I have had two that I even considered I was like you know what, maybe they're having a bad day, let's figure this out Now. There was no tasering, there was no Fourth Amendment violation. It was a rude complaint.
Speaker 4:But when you're in charge of whatever division you're doing, even if you're just a first-line supervisor, you take that seriously. Well, good cops, take it seriously. Supervisor, you take that serious. Well, good cops take it seriously. And so I was able to pull those those two subjects aside one police officer, one deputy from from two different agencies that I was at and it was literally a talking to and never saw the problem again. However, I was gifted some pretty darn good personnel throughout my career that went through some decent training before I had the ability to, to, to lead with them, not over them with them, um, and and it was able to fix that. But I hear the horror stories too. I see the, I see the videos. I know there's a problem out there and and and areas of the country. We've got to get that fixed and that's that's why we're here, um, trying to highlight some of that and and show the goodness of the majority of the law enforcement out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, badge 502, checking in. Shout out to him Anthony, christian, what's up, buddy? Patrick True Love said but that's a problem. The first thing on your mind shouldn't be is this person wanted for something? No, that absolutely is one of the first things on our mind. I'm sorry, I disagree with you. We're not in a normal profession. This isn't I work at the doctor's office. This isn't I work here or there. We deal with bad people all the time.
Speaker 2:Last week was the 30th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing and, as some of you may remember, yeah, Timothy McVeigh got stopped and was actually.
Speaker 1:Wasn't he arrested, or something?
Speaker 2:Yeah, trooper Charlie Hanger from Oklahoma Highway Patrol stopped him for no visible license plate driving on the interstate, you know, an hour or so after the bombing, and he had an illegal gun on him. And had Trooper Hanger not stopped him for that license plate violation?
Speaker 4:Agent Danny Colson from the FBI is one of the agents that interviewed him after he was brought back, and Danny Colson is also the one who's the third in command for 31 years of the FBI. They created the hostage rescue team HRT. It didn't exist before Danny Danny's a good friend of mine, he lives here in Texas and a freaking great guy, but to hear the stories that went on during the oklahoma city bombing is is freaking amazing yeah you know, we always said, we always say uh, uh, expect compliance or expect compliance, anticipate.
Speaker 2:Excuse me, expect compliance but anticipate resistance. That's not the right saying. I screwed that up. We, we, we say basically most people comply with law enforcement. Is what I'm trying to say. Right, expect the compliance, but don't be naive to the possibility of resistance. Right, because most of the people that we interact with comply with us. It's to your point a second ago, eric, and that is don't get emotionally attached, right?
Speaker 2:I remember when I was a brand new police officer, a female officer from neighboring jurisdiction, remember, I told you I started out in that one square mile town where nothing ever happened, the town next to me, a lot busier than we were, and we would back them up on traffic stops and stuff. And I watched her make traffic stops and she would always walk up and I'm going to call her, I'm going to call her Jane. She would walk up and she would say, hey, I'm Jane, the reason why I pulled you over is X, y and Z. It was not I'm officer Smith, I'm blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it was just hey. And she was able to establish early on that emotional connection with, with the person that that, that uh was pulled over, which I always always thought that was pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Eye of the night said you are not owed compliance. Well, depends. Is it a traffic stop when you agreed to take that license from the state? You agreed to comply with law enforcement.
Speaker 1:And again, if you feel like something is unlawful, that is for court. You don't get to fight and argue the laws with the cop. That's what the courts are for. So in some circumstances I disagree with you. Now there are times where I have seen cops way overextend and they didn't have a lawful reason to be there and they weren't called there and it wasn't a traffic stop. There are certain things that you are supposed to comply with, but there are some things, just like you said. But compliance in itself, like that, just depends on the circumstance and the situation and what we're talking about. Everything is a case-by-case basis.
Speaker 1:Ids I've been reading a lot about stopping IDs lately so I'm glad he brought this up. Even in a stop and ID state, even when a traffic stop, they must be lawful, correct. Rights can be refunded. Rights can't be refunded after they've been violated. It should be mandatory to state the reason for the stop. Should be and are are two different things. So that's the discussion. If it's not, you can't get mad because the laws aren't how you want them to be. California has that law, trey. I don't know if you can speak right now, but I'm pretty sure Trey looks busy.
Speaker 1:Trey looks busy right now. Trey's got some spotty internet too. Everything's frozen. No, it's cute internet too. Everything's frozen. Um, so this is. This is part, this is part of the problem that we need to help bridge a gap with guys is what are you saying?
Speaker 6:my internet is dripping bro yeah, I see that, bro.
Speaker 1:Maybe you should pay it once in a while, if I can got that rookie money over there he is, he is all choppy running around country girl said trey, you got that handsome boy on there, I like it. Uh, that is a little cutie, you got there, like it, um yeah, he looks like his dad yeah, listen to this.
Speaker 1:He look nothing like his dad. Wade lucero, you're wrong. Court is not for that. No, that's exactly what the courts are for. The courts are there to debate the legality of things. You think you're right, the officer thinks he's right. You go to court and that's where you fight. That's why this is a civilized country.
Speaker 2:Trey's on that dial-up.
Speaker 1:He's got you. He's like I'm going to try to reset and get back on.
Speaker 4:Hey, just a quick question that we missed. It probably just says paired. It's one of my guys on LinkedIn. He's a good guy, His name is David Cardoso. He said what are your thoughts on the use of technology in law enforcement and how do they ensure it is used ethically?
Speaker 1:And, Eric, if you don't mind answering this first and then I'll follow up on this, because Eric is all about the tech, yeah, so I'm on the National Real-Time Crime Center Association Board, so I know that's a mouthful, but really that is all the current tech that's being used in law enforcement. So when we're talking about drones, license plate readers, facial recognition, rapid ID for fingerprints on the scene, I mean just everything that you can talk about. That is one of my major concerns. Every time cops get a cool tool, somebody abuses it and screws it up. Well, luckily, technology is now to the point where you can't fart without it registering. Oh, banning just farted. He's over here. This is his GPS location. This is where he was at when he did it. He had, you know, green eggs and ham for breakfast, like that is where we're at.
Speaker 1:So in that um, technology checks and balances is one is ensuring that these privatized companies um keep all. If you buy them, the information belongs to the department. That stuff is not being uploaded to that company by any means. So keeping that separate. Another thing that you need to make sure is going on is, if you decide to not go with them anymore, you're not going to lose the information you already have. They can't touch it. It's got to be CJIS compliant. That's another thing. So anything that you're using out there and make sure it's CJIS compliant. I know DJI had an issue with that, so you got to be careful with that. Slack had a problem with that, which I think they fixed. So I'm not putting shade on Slack. I just think when they first started they didn't have a CJIS compliancy and officers were out there using it, so you got to be careful with this stuff.
Speaker 1:You can't just jump into tech and not know what the hell you're talking about. When you've got license plate readers and things like that, we got to make sure we're not overstepping and violating people's rights. So a lot of the license plate reader stuff, that stuff sticks around for 30 days and that information gets dumped. They're not looking into your car, they're only looking at your plates. So that's other things. It's not a ticket generator, a revenue generator. That's another thing that LPRs don't do, because I think every state just about is determined that the red light cameras were unconstitutional, because you have the right to face your accuser and you have to prove the person that was behind the wheel. So those were two things that were there. Trey keeps trying to join. He's not having good luck over here.
Speaker 1:So as far as the technology goes, that's some of the things that you need to make sure there's checks and balances on. There are other things to make sure that you're staying in compliance. That are some of the things that you need to make sure there's checks and balances on. There are other things to make sure that you're staying in compliance that are outside of the law enforcement realm, that they actually check your compliancy. So it's not just you checking your own compliancy. So we've done a lot of good things here in the last four years to ensure, with all this new tech that's just hitting us left and right, that we're not violating anybody's rights. Now, the beauty of it is, like I said, all this new tech logs every single thing. You cannot use it without logging in. If you log in, every keystroke is matched. If you look up your ex's new boyfriend, it's going to be checked. If you try to facial wreck some dude, that stuff's going to be checked. There's going to be a log and you cannot get rid of it.
Speaker 4:And if you do that for all the young officers that are watching right now, do not use that frigging MDT to run somebody for personal shit You're going to go to the federal pen.
Speaker 1:Brock's over here talking about backdooring people, so I'm trying to. I'm throwing a little shade at brock. I bet I can find a back door with any of that tech. I create complex software for a living, okay. Well, sir, you have to get inside the secure building first to do that, because our network is internal so you do not have access from the outside. Um, I don't know what I'm talking about. On that, you may I don't know if you have huge computer skills, maybe you can. Sir, I don't know, I'm talking shit check your bank account, eric, it might be empty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know oh, marine blood's on Blood. You better start drinking, bro, because you still don't have a membership. I just took a drink just because we said his name.
Speaker 4:And Scott, if you don't mind, just adding a little bit to that being a chief, doing it intermittently, never having the title but helping. I know you as a chief, even small town or big town, you're getting slammed by email, by phone calls from vendors, from tech companies across the country, I'm assuming, uh, like most chiefs do. But what technology trends are you seeing change that actually work in the past couple years? And I think that'll really answer a lot of those folks questions.
Speaker 2:Well, real quick, back to Eric's. Eric's point. Everything we do is is recorded right. Um, I mean, I'm sure back in the eighties when they put MDTs and police cruisers, they were having issues with officers who were using that for him for improper reasons. And I again, I can't speak to every state, but I can tell you here in my state, accessing those databases without lawful purpose is a felony and it's the quickest way to get your certification yanked and become a convicted felon. So we obviously take that, you know, very serious.
Speaker 2:He mentioned the LPRs. I don't know if he mentioned drones, but drones is another just really interesting area that is literally sweeping this country. And here's the issue and again, I'm not a lawyer, but case law and precedence that's set by case law is often years and years and years behind these cases. So we won't have drone. Case law is often years and years and years behind these cases, so we won't have like drone case law for years. So it's going to be interesting on where can you fly a drone? What can, what can you see from a drone? Is that going to be admissible in court? Is it any different than if you're in a helicopter or an airplane Like? There's just so many unanswered questions about that kind of technology. Then you add the whole AI component on top of all of that. It's certainly an interesting arena. That again it's. You know, it's 2025. We may not have, we may not have definitive answers for four or five years from now with some direction on what we can and can't do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just. I'm looking at the chat. They're all hyping up Harrison, like Harrison's independent wealthy. He's a bad motherfucker. He's trying to buy accounts. Sorry, harrison, apparently, we've reached our freaking limit again. I still don't understand it. But we are almost exactly an hour in. I want to get to um some discussion on videos. So, uh, scott, I appreciate you going through the ringer on that. Uh, that's, this is oh, that was fun part of the way we bridge the gap here, man um so, oh, badge 502 is over here.
Speaker 1:Humble bragging. I'm part of the 107 drone pilot. I can tell you where you can and can't fly it. Listen to this guy.
Speaker 2:We just ordered our first drone and we're getting ready to put six guys through that 107. I hear that test is no joke. So I may reach out to Badge 502 and have them answer some questions for me.
Speaker 1:From what I'm hearing, axon and Ring have partnered up and they're uh doing their transform community collaboration and public safety. So look forward to that, um. As a ring doorbell owner and a uh axon user for body cameras and and shoot, what else do I have? Uh, my taser and our dash cam drone. And no, we don't have an axon drone yet. No drones, no, we have. We do have drones, but not axon drones. We have a dji. We have that are compliant, by the way, um, and we have.
Speaker 2:I think we have another brand axon just by uh Skydio or partner with Skydio.
Speaker 1:Yes, yep, country girl. Eric, I better fix the membership thing. You guys would be set. Yeah, I don't know how to fix it. Oh, harrison, harrison got frustrated. He went for the super sicker. He said, oh, it's got a pair. Yeah, it puts the description of the uh, oh and. And what, uh, alan added in the background is that the video at your house can be shared back to the agency through axon's new thing. So, um, you'll sign mous and stuff like that. Uh, with your department, and I do want to talk about the checks and balances in that technology as well.
Speaker 1:The police department can never just have direct access to your ring cameras. Right, right, they're going to reach out to you because you subscribed and said, yeah, we want to let you guys know we have a ring camera. That's the partnering with your police department. But they can't just get access to your stuff. They'll actually reach out to you and say, hey, there was a crime committed in your area. Do you mind if we check your cameras between this time and that time? And then you'll sign the little agreement and send it over. So that's how that works. Alan's trying to jump on. Let's see how Spotty McGee works. Is it working?
Speaker 2:Kind of you look like you're talking from space all right, well, so they basically said that their uh ring will have it in the app and if it's in the geographical location, you can hit the button on your app and it'll automatically be sent to the police department nice, yeah, um, either night.
Speaker 1:I don't know what's going on in your city, but Ring cannot just give over, at least not in my city. Like I said, the way that our agreements worked out, like, say me a citizen, the neighborhood patrol officer in the area will say hey, I see you got Ring doorbell or whatever. We have a program here it is. You can sign up so it lets the department know this person that lives at this address has a ring camera. If you ever need anything, just reach out to me this is how you contact me Then they can get the footage for you. But it by no means can we just take no?
Speaker 1:no, we can't just access that yeah, um, so yeah all right, let's get into uh, let's get into the videos.
Speaker 1:So I've got to um, I've gotta, I gotta own my own fuck up. So I I hope you guys are ready for this. So I'm going to share the screen here. Share, okay. So here's the first one. I screwed up on y'all. I said that this cop fired. No, no, no, okay.
Speaker 1:So in this video I say that the cop does a badass takedown. I was wrong. I edited this video from my phone and got the cop and the bad guy mixed up. The bad guy actually takes the cop down. So I screwed up there and then I did a piss poor job of articulating what I meant. Okay, so I'm going to play it and then I'm going to backtrack and explain what I meant. So, let's go. Let's not go go. I didn't unmute it all. Right, let's go again.
Speaker 1:I don't know the whole background of this story, but I do know it was for a felony and that this guy was resisting arrest. That's why they were wrestling around on the ground. I want to give quick props to that officer that did the takedown. That was a legit takedown. I was wrong.
Speaker 1:I'm typically pretty happy when officers decide to go hands-on versus going to their Batman belt if the situation dictates that possibility. I don't like them getting too heavily reliant on the things that we carry as tools. However, what I have a major problem with is the female officer that comes up and fires her gun at the suspect, which was not warranted at the time and was a major mistake on her part because she thought she was firing her taser. There is no excuse for that. This officer needs to be fired and never allowed to be an officer again, and they need to be charged. That's a mistake. You don't get to bounce back from us, okay. So it goes on to me just, you know being a dummy, but, uh, I'm gonna stop sharing. So let me clarify, because I did not articulate my thoughts as well as I thought I did, and we're all human, we all do that shit.
Speaker 1:So here's where I what I meant to clarify the shooting in itself, especially after figuring out that it wasn't the cop that took that guy down, the shooting in itself could possibly be justified, ok, so I want to say that because I got the cop was getting bashed in the back of the head. We don't know what the perception was. We don't know what happened to him when he got slammed on the ground If he got his bell rung, whatever it is, regardless. So I'm not going to get into that, that debate whether it was justified or it wasn't. That wasn't my point.
Speaker 1:My point is not that she may have had the right to shoot him. My point is that she shot and she didn't mean to, and that in itself is not okay. We can never fire our gun and go whoops, taser, taser, taser, shit. I didn't mean to shoot that. That's basically what happened. So in that, that's just I'm sorry. In my opinion, that's one of those things you don't get to bounce back from. One of our biggest rules as a cop is don't shoot people with your gun if you don't mean to Like that. That's one of our biggest rules as a cop.
Speaker 4:That's the frigging highest use of force that a basic peace officer has.
Speaker 1:Hold on. I got one more clarification too. And the other thing when I say needs to be charged, that's not me saying this person needs to be convicted. That's not my job. What I'm saying when I say somebody needs to be charged is the courts need to decide. This is beyond me, this is beyond IA. I think you need to let the courts handle that. That's their purview. This is where they need to come into play, because it needs to be fair and unbiased. I don't know that we can be fair and unbiased trying to judge a fellow officer on something like this Because, like you said, we've all been in them shoes, where we've been fighting with people and stuff like that. Everybody's perception is a little different. So, um, in my opinion, this uh, when I say charge, that's what I mean. So take that for what it is.
Speaker 1:I screwed up, I messed up. Yes, I own that uh Copville from uh Copville OG. If you guys know the the name, I'll actually highlight him here because he's the one that called me out. He's a retired cop, I believe, and he was right. I fucked it up and we had a long drawn-out conversation afterwards because I just didn't articulate it the way I was thinking. My mouth worked faster than my brain and I own that. I fucked it up, guys. I apologize. Marine Blood said the taser bang is definitely the problem. Should probably have just gone with the gun anyway. So Banning, I'll let you. I know you had a thought to clarify there.
Speaker 4:And I didn't mean to interrupt you. I've been bad lately, piece of shit.
Speaker 1:You're fired, not getting paid. Not getting paid this month Zero paycheck for next week too.
Speaker 4:No that's, that's just the biggest thing. I mean, we're human beings, we go through all this training. We go out there and we have deadly force sitting on our hip, deadly force sitting in the car, and you go out there and if you make a freaking decision like this, I mean it's bye, you know we're going to let the course decide, but a jury of your peers to see something like that.
Speaker 4:Bye, I'm sorry, that's the biggest, the biggest thing we carry. Um, that's what we've been entrusted with, amongst many, many other things. And uh, scott, I'm sure you may share, may not share, but would love to hear your opinion on as well may share, may not share, but would love to hear your opinion on as well.
Speaker 2:Um, I'll tread lightly on this one, because there's a lot of research behind this. Uh, the term is slip capture mistakes, slip capture error um, it's, it's, uh, you know this. This runs in the human performance arena, human factors that come into play. It goes back to what I said earlier too, with training, and that is we spend more time, uh, not training than we do training. And in, in that moment, what do you? What do most police officers practice? More of drawing their sidearm or drawing their taser, and in most agencies, they practice drawing their, drawing their sidearm.
Speaker 2:So when this, when this case happened, when, when, um, when the potter case happened out in Minneapolis, there was a lot of conversation around this. There was a lot of talk about you know why you should only draw a taser with your non-weapon hand. Most officers are trained to cross-draw, which is in that same motion as the gun. So I'm not going to get into that rabbit hole, because there's way too much that I'm not comfortable speaking about with this, too much that I'm not comfortable speaking about with this, other than, um, until we start putting officers in in better high stress training environments. I think we're still going to see some of these errors occur.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, actually Vaughn, vaughn. Vaughn reached out to me on that one and, um, he, before he could give me shit, uh, I had told him I was like Alec, I already know I fucked up. This is what I meant, and he goes damn, I can't even give you shit on it now. So I worked it out with Vaughn and he agreed after I gave him my clarification and he actually lives in the city that this occurred in and he didn't know that. So he actually can clarify a lot more about this particular incident. But this officer was fired but was exonerated in court to exactly what Scott's talking about. And that's what I mean, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:This person, regardless, you can't be a cop at that department anymore. You may be able to go somewhere else. For me personally, I'm not hiring you. I'll put that out there. You shot somebody on accident. You didn't mean to. I'm not hiring you. So that's just me. It doesn't mean I'm right, but that's my opinion. And uh, or, as banning would say, that's just eric levine's opinion. So, um, on the actual uh, science, science, behind what Scott was getting into, vaughn went down the rabbit hole with him.
Speaker 1:I know Mr Bill folds over there just sweating right now because he's got such a crush for Vaughn and um, yeah, so, uh, alan said he met with Vaughn today, actually, so very cool. Um, we're trying to get Vaughn to be a part of this crew. Y'all I'm trying, he's the man. He has so much fun with us and our audience loves Vaughn.
Speaker 4:With all his expertise. His calendar fills up quite quickly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, acorn, I get you. Brother, you're good, you don't got to. Yeah. So Marine Blood said, in my opinion, she needs at least a step back and train hard for a while, but maybe have her take off for a couple of months. And here's another important part to remember too, and this is something I try to remind myself Some of the best lessons that I've learned are from fucking up, and it made me a so much better officer, and I'm so glad I was at. You know, my department was forgiving enough to give me a chance not that it was something that was going to get me fired, but it could have been a very severe punishment and they decided to go with what they went, and you do tend to learn a lot. Now I'll just leave it at that.
Speaker 2:That's what I said earlier, right? I mean, the goal is to make you better. Yes, Now this. Well, let me, let me pause. This is an extreme case. I'm not talking about something like this, but you know, the goal is to make you better If you do screw something up, right? Not saying shooting somebody is what, but you can take this video right here and you can put that in front of police officers all across the country at a roll call and you can talk about right, what are we doing to prevent this from happening here? Are we still cross-drawn with our strong hand? Are we doing it only with our weak?
Speaker 1:side. Yeah, having your weapon systems on the same side. I actually think that that's the video that created that training systems on the same side. I actually think that that's the video that created that training. I I I'm not. I'm not 100 on that, but there was a. There was a clear police incident that it was because the weapon system was on the same side and it became the catalyst to for all the training to be like your other weapon systems need to be on the opposite side of your handgun yeah, and again, it might be that the potter case out of minneapolis, out of minnesota I, I don't think that that one is okay, but I, I think the one that you're talking about may be the catalyst.
Speaker 1:You may be right. Um, but uh, we? Somebody showed me the case. I just don't have it off the top of my head. Okay, so let's go over to my other fuck up. So, um, let me see, is this the right one? Yes, well, it's, it's. It's a debatable fuck up, let's put it that way. Debatable, cause I'm still on the fence about this one. So we will share the screen, okay, share, okay, unmute and play. There's no biggie size on this one, guys, because it's just the size that it is. It doesn't let me make it any larger.
Speaker 2:A motorcycle is flees from police, leads to a pursuit. Which way are you going? Okay?
Speaker 7:stand by 16-0, give me an ambulance. I knocked him off his bike. He's unconscious.
Speaker 1:Okay now, before I get into the debate of if that was a pit or not, here's another part that I know Badge 502 will love. The cop already called out this dude's unconscious. Don't move him. Pat him down the best you can, but I wouldn't move him. That's just me. I think that's dangerous. I'm not trying to hurt this dude anymore and you've already done it. I don't know, Maybe try to cuff him. I don't know. I may just pat this dude down if he's out, if I legitimately think he's out why was he running?
Speaker 1:that we don't know. I'm not sure why he's running um. So this is where we get into the debate. One the thing I hate about instagram is you can't rewind, so I'm going to reload this. Now, what I want you guys to pay attention to is you tell me if you think he pitted this or the bike cut back in front of him. So this was where the arguments began. I say the officer saw a low speed opportunity and turned into the bike last second. That's what I say. But other people are saying that the bike cut in front of him and the cop had no choice. So you guys give me your honest opinion based on this. Now it's going to be quick. I can't slow it down. This fleas from police leads to a pursuit Right when he goes in the parking lot. Okay, stand up, pursuit to me, because I'm watching the white line down the middle of the road. Yep, he was traveling on a straight path and he turned into it, benny. Is that what you saw, bennings?
Speaker 4:Bennings getting glitchy Can you hear me now?
Speaker 1:Can you hear me now? You're, you're a little glitchy, oh are you kidding me. Nope, you're good now. Oh, there you go, no.
Speaker 4:I saw the same thing on the first run. You know, if you sit there, just look at 12 o'clock and look at the divider line on the lanes, all the steering wheel obviously goes to the right. As soon as he comes up it goes to the right and it was a low speed pit as a, you know, educated guess on everything that we're seeing in the film in front of us.
Speaker 1:Trey, you're looking crispy and your internet's looking good. All of a sudden, what happened?
Speaker 6:I don't know what was going on.
Speaker 1:You got a little glitchy there, but maybe we shouldn't let you talk. It's taking a little more bandwidth than what you got. Bro, can you get some fiber out there or what?
Speaker 6:I'll be using Spectrum bro. Are you on Wi using spectrum bro? Are you on wi-fi? Are you hardwired? No, I'm on wi-fi. I can't get the hardwired to my room.
Speaker 6:I have to drill through the wall okay, drill through the wall no, no, no no, come on, bro, you got to commit to the cause no, once I, once I get a final location where I'm gonna be okay, uh, okay, so we got some debate. I don't think that was a pit. Well, I guess the difference is I ain't ever been trained on pitting, so I can't really say what it's supposed to look like it's tapping the back end.
Speaker 1:Just think of it that way.
Speaker 2:And you're not supposed to do it to a motorcycle.
Speaker 1:Never. I mean of course not to a motorcycle yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't think that was a pit bro, and my didn't. What doesn't?
Speaker 6:help is what he says when he, when he uh that, no, that, without what the words makes me can like, convinces me that it was because he's what do they say?
Speaker 2:I just knocked him off the bike.
Speaker 6:I knocked him off the bike, yeah right, so I'll play it muted.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's play it muted. This is how I like to watch use of force videos, for the first time anyway, so I'm going to share the screen I wonder why it was running. Let's, let's, uh, and, and, like I, go on to explain if this guy's wanted for a violent felony and he is a obvious danger like okay, all bets are off, I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1:Um, and I would even meet in the middle that we have no way of really stopping motorcycles anymore. So maybe if you figure out a way to do low impact at low speeds but then the debate's going to be well, what's considered a low speed? Like if you tap the dude going less than 10, okay, cool. But nobody.
Speaker 2:There's a company in Belgium I think is it Belgium, Turkey, Belgium that sent me a new version of tire deflation devices that you can use on motorcycles. Have you? Seen those things.
Speaker 4:It's a much slower deflation than what we're used to as law enforcement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can actually use it on motorcycles now.
Speaker 1:Oh, kingslayer, finally got on. I'm totally going to watch tomorrow, cool. But all right, I'm going to play it muted. Now again watch the white line, watch the tip of the car, and you tell me again okay, now I've watched it hundreds of times, so I've got an advantage.
Speaker 2:We call it hindsight bias.
Speaker 3:It is yeah, he went right, yeah, yeah, he's the last minute, yeah, last minute.
Speaker 1:Your boy. He takes it and is like boop, that's what I'm saying. I think he took a low-impact chance.
Speaker 6:Yeah, At the end he did turn into the bucket. Yeah, he's like I'm saying I think he took a low-impact chance. Yeah, At the end he did turn into the bug.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's like I'm going to go straight. Nope, Boop, yeah, the dude pitted him. Now argue all you want y'all. I got four people, three people up here and a kid. The kid agrees with me. I saw him shake his head. He's not, he's not in his head.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So Eric somebody made a comment on there use the grappler device and I love the grappler for vehicles. Does that work on motorcycles? Here's the deal. I know they did some tests with it. My whole thing is with that grappler. I think and this is just banning looking at it from watching all the videos when they came online they were starting to get big and now they're getting accepted into law enforcement et cetera. When they came online, they were starting to get big and now they're getting accepted into law enforcement et cetera. I believe that would have been a much more violent stop on a grappler than it would be for what just happened there.
Speaker 1:Oh, you think he would have just fucking launched? He yanked them up right? Oh yeah, because the bike would stop. But he's not.
Speaker 4:He's a vehicle to a stop and the body's still in motion.
Speaker 1:no-transcript yeah, yeah, see, now you guys see, like this is you know. You know I hate to say it that I'm considered to use a force expert and I fucked up on a cop tackling somebody. I missed the whole fucking boat on that one. So is what it is, guys, I'm I now you know that guy driving a crown vic it looks like like an old school crown.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it did look like old school crowd. It looked like old school Vic for sure. Um, new drinking game when, when, when banning says it's banning his opinion, then you guys got to take a drink as well. Our, our crowd's going to be hammered drunk. There's nobody that's going to be able to be on this show.
Speaker 4:Do I say it's my opinion, a lot Dadgummit.
Speaker 1:You say it's Banning's opinion. Eye of the Knight said to me the first couple times it looked like when the bike cut in front of the truck he went in a driveway area, but after a couple more views it looked like the bike was trying to use other cars to block. I don't know, I mean.
Speaker 2:You don't want to know why it was running.
Speaker 1:It changes everything. It's a motorcycle. It's what they do, bro. They just run. We'll try it one more. One more time. I want to see what Eye of the Knight's talking about. So he's definitely using the cars to his advantage. He thinks that. That was edited big time. So as he comes through here, I don't see any cars Boom. But so as he comes through here, I don't see any cars Boom, but I do see the boop. And what's crazy is that doesn't look like that's very fast Get me an ambulance.
Speaker 2:I knocked him off the motorcycle.
Speaker 1:And he's still messed up. So you know what I mean, okay. Okay, now we can get into the main part of the show, which is the body cam reviews. We've got to know. Scott Trey finally decided to grace us with his presence. Alan is, you know, in shitty Wi-Fi so he can't even partake, so he's messaging us from behind the scenes.
Speaker 4:I was going to say even to Freeman there uh, banning, does not think that?
Speaker 1:um, okay. So for those that may be new to what we're doing and those that already know, we're going to watch some body cam videos that we've never seen before. None of us on the panel have seen it. If we happen to have seen the video, we will take ourselves out of the assessment and what we're going to do is, as the video progresses, we tell, take ourselves out of the assessment. And what we're going to do is, as the video progresses, we tell you how we see the call and how we would react to what we're seeing, versus Monday morning quarterbacking and already knowing what happened. That way, you kind of get an eye into law enforcement training, how we differ slightly from across the nation and also how we are very similar. We may take different trails down uh uh, down different rabbit holes and stuff, but we all end up at the same goal usually. And then you might see the officer veer off wildly from what all of us have to say and then typically, when they do that, they messed up. So we'll talk about that. So let's uh, let's get into that.
Speaker 1:Um eye of the night. Wait, I was enjoying Eric's bad takes. Do we have more of those? I'm sure there will be more guys. I, I, I'm human, I screw up, so, um, so we're going to first give a shout out to shout out to police activity. That's where we got all of our videos tonight, so we are giving them full credit for all of these videos that we are about to watch. I have three of them lined up, so if they are really long, we try to keep them under five minutes. If they're super long, we're going to fast forward through them, because typically it's a lot of blah blah, blah blah. So let's go. Okay, we're gonna pause. Let's go back again. We don't know these videos shout out to police activity and let me make sure we're in high quality. Yep, we're in high quality. All right, let let's go.
Speaker 5:Stop, stop. I'm going to give you a drink, that's it.
Speaker 1:Did he just say I was going to give you a drink, that's it. It looked like he held a can of pop or something out for him to take, okay, okay. And then he ran right through that stop sign and ignored this guy.
Speaker 1:So that was odd um, I mean, lights aren't on or nothing's just. No, yeah, I don't. I don't know if he was just trying to run like some traffic control interference. Um, so, high quality h2o uh, yes. So okay, we've got a traffic violation. He ignored an officer on foot telling him to stop. High quality H2O yes, okay, we've got a traffic violation. He ignored an officer on foot telling him to stop and then he ran through a stop sign right there. So, okay, I'm going to jump in my car and I'm going to go after him All right.
Speaker 1:Let's do it. Let's keep going. I don't think anybody's going to say anything. Nobody's got anything different on that, do you? No, I think we're all in agreement, okay.
Speaker 2:His lights are on.
Speaker 4:Like a beer or something he just drove by. He's back towards Lakeview.
Speaker 1:Okay, so he's drinking. Oh, that's a stop stick.
Speaker 2:Well, he had his lights on too, so he didn't turn it off. I just realized that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were making that guy try to stop. Yeah, yeah, they were making that guy try to stop, which makes me think maybe that was a dead-end rune and he came back and that officer realized he had nowhere to go. That's kind of what that looked like, but now we're in full pursuit. Apparently this was edited I didn't edit this, obviously and they're about to stop. Stick this guy. So that's what this thing is. It's on like a fishing line. You can reel it up once you've used it. So from here, things to consider, guys, that you may not think about if you're not a cop is as soon as this guy runs it over, the next step is to get that thing out of the road as fast as possible, because there's cop cars coming right behind it, and who here on the panel has seen other cops?
Speaker 2:stop, stick other cops oh yeah, I have victim.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, you were a victim oh yeah, I've flattened cruiser tires and had mine flattened oh no, you oh, so you also flattened other people my bad you learn from that. The first time I promise I threw, I've thrown them at windshields.
Speaker 2:It's been insane.
Speaker 1:Oh jeez, they must have been hauling. They were hauling the mail. Okay, let's keep going here. I think we got a good. We got a good deflation. Okay. Once he does come to a stop, what are we going to do? Fellas stop, felony traffic stop. Okay. So for those wondering, a felony traffic stop means we're not running up to that car, we're gonna loud hell.
Speaker 2:Well we, we don't we prefer you not run up to the car?
Speaker 1:yes, there are some freaking cowboys out there that will run up there, you see it more than yeah yeah, okay, let's, uh, let's keep going show me your hands now. Get on the ground now okay, I'm okay with the with the tasing. He was ignoring all their orders and there's no reason to think he was going to follow any anyway, because he had to be hit with spike strips and then he obviously got in an accident with somebody else, it looked like a hit.
Speaker 2:Did he hit the cruiser or the cruiser hit him? That was a police car.
Speaker 1:It looked like a civilian car.
Speaker 6:It was an unmarked Explorer, I thought it was a light that may be a civilian car unmarked explorer.
Speaker 2:I thought that's a light. I mean that may be a civilian car or I think his taillights are flashing.
Speaker 1:There's an antenna on the roof maybe oh yeah, you're right, which is a no-no where I'm at. You don't use your uc for that shit. Mark units only. No, he gets to do the electric shuffle a lot of stupid right now you didn't see that I'm going back.
Speaker 2:No, what he said. I looked away. That's, that's my bro, that's possible. I looked away. You guys had fun, all right.
Speaker 1:That's my bro. That's awesome. That's awesome you guys had fun, right?
Speaker 2:Did it say he offered him a vodka drink or something? Is that what it said?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, he offered him a vodka spritzer or something like that when he drove by, he offered him an alcoholic beverageritzer or something like that.
Speaker 2:Or when he drove by, he offered him a alcoholic beverage wow, oh my god, we need to make that a short clip, and that's gonna be our closing, but you guys had fun though, right, yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, we absolutely could. It's public information, so hell yeah. Um, that's so funny and we might have to do that. Might be the ending to all of our shows. Uh, let me go to the the sides over here see what everybody's saying. Uh, I the knight said thanks folks. Uh, he was 89, lived. What are we talking about here?
Speaker 1:um I'm not sure what that's about. I must have missed some comments while we were looking at the video. You guys had fun though, right, that's epic. That guy is epic. Oh, I'm sorry I didn't see that your grandfather died. Condolences, brother. It's never easy. Never easy for sure. All right, let us I understand. Pause, okay, I'm going to share the screen. Share screen, okay. Again. Shout out to Police Activity. We're going to biggie size Boom. There we go.
Speaker 3:And let's go. We need to do our job instead. I'll agree. 653 Kingsgate, please. Okay, give me one moment to pull that up, all right, and tell me exactly what happened. My two sons are fighting while I've got a gun. Will you please say something while I'm here? Quick, my partners are getting help on the way while we're speaking, all right, and then if you could just repeat that address for me, just for verification 6-53 Kings Street. Thank you.
Speaker 1:What in the world? Okay, so we already know that we're heading to a potential person with a weapon Because he said one of my sons has a gun. Okay, has anybody got any input on how they're coming into this call? Was there a guy in the?
Speaker 2:backseat. Was that cop in the back seat? Was that cop in the back seat?
Speaker 6:yeah, this that's probably not like. It's probably not like a regular patrol team, it's probably some sort of like special unit or something.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I did that, pitted the one from the other video.
Speaker 1:Now he's got a ride I don't want to run to back, yeah, but yeah, he definitely got out of the back seat okay, making sure I wasn't seeing things.
Speaker 2:No, no, yeah, I'm not drinking either. This is water but I'm just making sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this is probably a three to four-man team, because they know they're going into somebody's armed with a gun, so that's cool. I'm glad they were able to do that Smart. It's not typical. Recording. Get your hand out of your pocket now. Yeah, you don't, there's nothing you can do. Yeah, that's I mean yeah, that's, that's honestly.
Speaker 4:Yeah, suicide by cop, it's really what that?
Speaker 1:that, that, um, this is something we hate to hate to like anybody would hate to see this, I mean this is yeah, and, and I want to point out that the officer, even upon seeing the gun, still gave commands before firing yeah, they still gave him a chance, which I don't have been really. Yeah, um, normally you pull the gun out, you're getting shot. It's over, yeah, but he held it down, but the moment he started to bring it up, they fired.
Speaker 5:I'll go back, because that did happen fast. Get your hand out of your pocket now. Get your hand out of your pocket now. Get your hand out of your pocket now.
Speaker 1:So they still haven't fired. They see the gun. He gave commands that like put the gun back. He said, put your gun down, or something like that.
Speaker 6:but um, so he still hasn't fired once he lifted it up, that's when they shot him.
Speaker 1:So so from here, yeah, you got to secure him. People have jumped up from this. I know it sounds stupid, but people have jumped up after being shot six, seven, eight, ten times. So you got to let them get over that initial shock. But these guys are going to move in, hopefully, secure the weapon, put this guy Just depends on how bad he is and then start trying to render aid.
Speaker 1:Let's go hands, here you get it's right by the right hand and don't touch the gun. Did he say, don't touch the gun? And then he grabbed it attack for this guy.
Speaker 2:Sorry to see him when his shot's fired just leave it there.
Speaker 1:You're pretty good at this right. Where are you shot? Where are you shot? Where are you shot? Roll him over, roll him over. It's a lung shot. You can hear him. Go, grab him. Go, grab him. Grab your trauma kit. Trauma kit sucking chest wound. Start covering the holes. It looks like we got one more body cam angle.
Speaker 5:Hey, show me, hey, take your hand, show me your hands the holes. It looks like we got one more body the gun now he's stuck in that oodle loop.
Speaker 1:He's giving out those commands but uh, clean shoot. There's nothing you can do yeah uh, harrison, they're using dumb glocks again. He's, he's doing an old. Uh, we, we've talked on here quite a bit um how much I want to get staccatos, so but uh, don't touch the gun department, like where I live at they, they issue staccato.
Speaker 6:That's like they. They uh, they issue guns. A department, they issue staccatos. There's a department near me it's called uh, ontario police department. They're like one of the only ones in the country that issue, though, though I guess.
Speaker 4:So I don't want to own property there because the property taxes Can be out of this world if their cops are carrying staccatos.
Speaker 6:Yeah, that shit is crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we actually. We're allowed to use them on duty.
Speaker 6:It can be a duty.
Speaker 1:But you gotta buy your own.
Speaker 6:Yeah, you gotta buy it. That's the same way with us. You gotta buy your own.
Speaker 1:Still waiting for staccato to check out the podcast and be like you know what those guys are. All right, okay, well, let's stop sharing that one. I think that one was pretty open and shut. I think those officers did everything they could I think they went above and beyond to try to give this kid an opportunity to put his gun back down or put it down, but he, he had his mind made up. Yeah, there's not much you can do with that.
Speaker 6:But like somebody. Somebody said that hate got so much, which is that does suck, dude. But we just had a shooting on my department and I was trying to explain to someone like a civilian. I'm like, bro, if you have four or five, five cops there, we all perceive the threat the same way. Even if I shoot four times, every other cop shoots four times, four times seven, 28 shots yeah six fours, that's still a. That's a lot of shots for somebody to get hit.
Speaker 6:So yeah, but it's because there's no way to separate how I perceive the threat to the next person. Like yo, if you point a gun in my direction, I'm perceiving that as being pointed at me.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, or pointed towards your partner.
Speaker 6:Oh yeah, Same thing yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got a call.
Speaker 2:I got a call yesterday from a department out west asking for an opinion on use of force and I believe it was eight officers 91 rounds total. Yeah, and I believe it was eight officers 91 rounds total.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what the media is going to focus on is the number of rounds versus when did you stop shooting? All these guys stopped firing as soon as this guy finished his drop.
Speaker 2:And everybody's going to perceive that quote drop different as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you may be delayed a little bit more, but you know what did Mr Billfold say? Eric, show the community how hot I look in those retro rifle shirts. Let me see if I can pull that up, sir. Yeah, let me do that. Here we go. I forgot that I can do this Share screen. So you guys are about to get some first-time modeling by the one and only Mr Bill Fulton. Now, this is the shirt I was talking about Banning.
Speaker 2:Shout out to our sponsors.
Speaker 1:Retro Rifle Wow, I have never seen this one, so I was very upset that he had this shirt, and I do not.
Speaker 2:So yeah, Wear that next to his yeah.
Speaker 1:Let me see if I can go to his other one. He got the graffiti, which is a very cool shirt. I like that one. And then this is the one that surprised me. I think he got this one for his missus. My man went cheetah print. I knew there was something freaky about him, didn't know he was that freaky, oh man. Thanks for for doing that. Mr Billfold, appreciate the modeling sir.
Speaker 6:Hey, pin that question about are y'all trained to shoot specific number? That's a good question.
Speaker 1:Let me see, I don't see it oh here we goittany garza, are y'all trained to shoot a specific number when in a situation, or all up on up to the unit? So, um, I'll lead. We're trained to shoot till the threat stops. Now the difference in shooting and what you could see in that video is that you don't know if your bullets are hitting that person. You don't see the bullets going in, versus when you're at the range, you can see your bullets go in the target, generally speaking. So there's a huge difference. What do they call it? At the range, they're always saying stop, target acquisition or, yeah, trying to make sure you hit the target is basically what they're trying to say, because you're not going to be able to see that in real life.
Speaker 6:Especially when someone's wearing dark clothes. You can't see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah when they're moving, there's trees, there were some signs in the way. I think what the average officer fires about one round every quarter second. So know, four rounds a second, that's boom, boom, that's fast, right, eight right seconds. You can do the math four seconds. You've got a lot of officers doing a magazine change. So, uh, you know, you're pulling the trigger quicker than those bullets are. You know, uh, you're processing that in your own brain yeah.
Speaker 1:So if we, if we go back, I'm going to share the screen again, and this isn't to be grotesque or to um, disrespect the fallen kid. Um, he's obviously going through some mental issues, but, um, what I want to do is just look at the time that it takes once this first shot goes off. So he's just about to fire. We're at 155. Oh, you guys can't even see it. I'm not sharing the screen yet. Stop drinking, eric. Okay, so here we are. We got the screen up, thank you, and we're at 155. My name is in the way. I'm sorry you can't see it and I don't know how to. Let me see if I can turn that off. Nope, I can't, okay. So anyway, he hasn't fired yet. We're still at 155.
Speaker 2:And people should know right now. They would be completely justified to shoot him right now.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think they're just about to. So we had about three seconds there, so it was 155 to 157, almost to 158. And they fired that many times and they stopped Look as soon as he's down on the ground. They discontinued firing. I don't think we get any more shots after this. Nope, so no more shots after that. Um, so they've. They were trained to fire until the threats neutralized, still with the hoodies. I know, um, mag, mag dump, don't stop drinking, eric. He's trying to get me to, trying to get me to lose my job. What about, ok? What about four cops taking 12 seconds to shoot?
Speaker 6:And that was horseshit, how that went down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that was. I don't know enough about that one. Do you know more about that one, trey?
Speaker 6:I think it was in like Wyoming or somethingrey. I think it was in Wyoming or something. I think somewhere in the Midwest area.
Speaker 1:I only saw one quick clip of it from down the street. That's all, that's out my understanding is there was a fence in between them and then the officers were the kid, went towards them with the knife, so I don't know enough to speak on that one. Yeah.
Speaker 6:I don't either. I just think the fence being there is enough, Because he didn't if he would have turned towards the mom who was behind.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 6:Then that changes the game. But he advanced towards the officers with the fence being there. I mean I can't piece together any reason to shoot a gun at that point even a take even a take like even a taser is kind of pushing it, I think.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yep yeah I don't know. I don't know enough about that one, but I do know with the fence being in between them, that's a big factor yeah, huge factor yeah, and do I have time to move out of the way?
Speaker 1:can I retreat a little bit? Um, I know we don't have a duty to retreat, but then again, if it helps me avoid having to shoot somebody, just depends. I don't know enough about that one. I would love to see body cam see what they saw. That would be nice. Have they released that yet? Do you know?
Speaker 6:I've been looking for it. I can't find it.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I haven't seen that one yet. What did that one say, magda? No, never. You are like seriously one of the good guys with a badge. We need more like you. Aw, thanks, buddy. I know I give you shit, but you are a good guy with a badge. Thanks, man. Don't say that too loud in front of Country Girl. She might call you out. She's just trying, like damn, to get us to get these damn hoodies. I don't know how to get them. So, okay, we got one more video, and this one is, I understand We'll pause. Okay, this one's short too. It's four minutes, so share screen. There we go Biggie size. All right, and let's can we get cheers for the youngest member of TCOD, trey's kid Trey, what's your kid's name?
Speaker 1:His name is TJ, tj, I like it, tj. All right, that guy obviously ran that light. Everybody was stopped except that guy, and now the cop is just sitting there. All right, I won't say it, chief, I'm going to let you say it first. What was that cop thinking?
Speaker 2:Well, I was just thinking like even the laziest cop in the department has to go. You're like he probably gets off work in like five minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just want to get back to the everybody's sitting there like cops, are just looking for reasons to pull you over. The fuck we are. We're not. We're looking for reasons not to pull anybody over so I see that happened and I didn't prep these guys at all, I just said what were you thinking he's like? All right, I gotta do something now.
Speaker 2:Also how bright this car is right here in the parking lot. I know it's like the camera.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that dude running that light, right in front of you with multiple cars just sitting there watching you, and all I'm thinking is like they all got dash cams now.
Speaker 2:I gotta go, because if I don't.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna be the next youtube video where they're like look at this cop, not do his job. I got license plate number, his car number, right and now the next thing that's going to happen is this cop's going to have to use force and they're going to be like oh, you just pulled them over for traffic offense and you know damn well they would have lit them up for not going after that car.
Speaker 1:See what I'm saying, guys if you don't, we can't win sometimes. My win sometimes. My buddy, my buddy says it's the hardest job in america, for sure. Oh my god.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's keep, by the way. I am so out of the loop on this hoodie thing.
Speaker 1:Just a sidebar, I have no idea what they're talking about. So I found these like anime hoodies one day. Like I'm a big dragon ball z fan okay, I'm a nerd, I know and these hoodies are different, I've never seen them before. They've got like this, like oversized hood, and somehow they, instead of having, like you know, like the lettering like steamed onto it or ironed onto it or whatever, they somehow created the lettering in the fabric. It's hard to explain without seeing it, and I was talking about it. I was like that'd be cool to have a two cops, one donut version of that. Well, fuck, I said it at the wrong time because they have not let me forget about it since Dan mentioned it.
Speaker 2:I wasn't going to say anything, but every other one of these comments over here talks about these hoodies. I'm like what are these people talking about?
Speaker 1:Oh man people talking about. Oh man, if you guys do want some tcod merch, you can always go to ghost patch, because that's where our metal badges, our coins and our little rubberized velcro patches are at. So they're on. If you go to our website two cops, one donut website and go to our sponsors, just scroll down to ghost patch and you click on that and it will take you to our products on Ghost Patch. Or you can go to Ghost Patch and type in Two Cops, one Donut and you'll find us. Alright, let's keep going, hey. Turn off your car.
Speaker 1:Watch your phone. Okay, so that's not normal. This is not how I conduct a normal traffic stop With somebody running a red light. So he's either opened his door, unasked the vehicle or his windows are down and he's acting weird. Yeah, vanny, you got anything.
Speaker 4:We just don't know all the details of the call. Was this a call before the red light run? Was she looking for the vehicle. I mean, we just don't know the details on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, based on that cop's reaction, the way his car was like stopped for just a second, he's like fuck. Anyway, like that's the reaction I saw, okay, I'll get him.
Speaker 8:Officer this is my customer. Can you turn it off? I can't tell. The lights are still back in front. All right, give me one second. Yeah.
Speaker 7:Tell him to roll down the window too. Driver enter Red Toyota.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we're treating it like a felony stop, the windows are tinted, they can't see. Oh, okay, I don't blame them. I like this approach. Better play it safe. May I try Spanish. Better than I can do.
Speaker 8:He was swerving in and out of lanes he almost teased into a car.
Speaker 5:I tried to pull him over, but he stopped over here.
Speaker 2:So somebody else just pulled up right Was it a boss, tell him what's going on, tell him what's going on. So that was severely edited, because she just makes that comment that he was swerving all over the road and whatever else he did, and then, boom, it shows him making the stop. So anyway, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're good, I'm sorry. Somebody's laughing at somebody else's comment. Neva said, or Nevia said, I'm going to make my own t-shirt that says please don't shoot me for using a walker. I don't get that one. Did the cop shoot somebody with a walker? I'm guessing that that could be something. Uh, get with custom screen printer and they can print a bunch of plain hoodies and t-shirts. I think we should do a tcod beard calendar. We got some monster whiskers in the community. Jesus, we got some weird fetishes going on up here. Alright, let's keep going. Sounds like we might have a DWI. Hey, dude, hey, hey, oh Lord, is she a gangster shooting over there? Banning, you know, I'm going to say it. You say it first, I'm not saying it.
Speaker 1:No, go ahead man Fuck, stay off the radio until business is finished. She was so fucking hurried to get on that radio. I think she was firing one-handed training, training, training.
Speaker 2:You know why? Because agencies have beat into their people that they guy on the radio and tell people what's going on before anything else and it's it's causing cops to get hurt and killed and nonsense. So you can't I always say you can't multitask. It sounds like you can, but I don't think you can give your brain 100 of attention on. You can, but I don't think you can give your brain a hundred percent of attention on two separate things. Right, it might be 95, five, but yeah, handle your business, then get on the radio. Yeah, sorry, that's a pet peeve.
Speaker 4:Don't say sorry about that. We preach that every day.
Speaker 6:We preach it all the time. I think this if I had to guess this LAPD, because no patch on the side. No, no, no. They're big on not having earpieces and shit when they get into shootings. I don't know if y'all ever pay attention to this, but a lot of the time they get into shootings they're holding a radio in one hand and a gun in the other.
Speaker 2:They don't have speaker mics.
Speaker 1:They don't have earpieces A lot of them they don't have earpieces.
Speaker 6:They don't really believe in that. A lot of LAPD guys, they don't really wear earpieces.
Speaker 1:Listen. If you're LAPD and you're listening to this right now, you're a dumbass. Get an earpiece. It's a safety issue, Not just for yourself, but for everybody.
Speaker 6:I don't know why.
Speaker 4:At least a few years ago they were not allowed to have anything coming off that lapel going in there.
Speaker 6:Yeah, no, lapel nothing. I don't know if they're not allowed to or it's just a culture thing, but I know a lot of their officers don't wear earpieces or lapels.
Speaker 1:All right, let's see.
Speaker 2:There's two officers on that side of the car.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:I'm guessing On this side. I assume Total yeah.
Speaker 8:Yeah he was working in and out of lanes. He almost teased him to. We tried to pull him over, but he stopped okay, pause that real quick.
Speaker 2:Can I just point out on the tactical side of the house are you?
Speaker 1:you were about to. Yeah, go ahead, I was gonna do the same thing. You go for it, sir. The flashlight, yep, flashlight.
Speaker 2:Yep, just turn it off. That spotlight has put enough light inside that car. When I teach traffic stop tactics for nighttime, that's one of the biggest things we preach Giving your position away that spotlight. The takedowns on these light bars today are so bright. You'd be amazed at how much light, excuse me, you'd be amazed how much you don't need that flashlight right now. How much you don't need that flashlight right now. Well, it's tying up a hand.
Speaker 1:It's occupied. That's why you should make and I've done this with my own team you should be sitting in the driver's seat of another vehicle while one or two officers pull up behind your car and hit you with the floodlights. Let you see what they see, so you understand from both perspectives, so you know where, and we'll have our guys cross in front of the lights and we'll show how that can give your position away, turn your light, your flashlight on, how, even though they're being bombarded with all this light, that that can give your position away.
Speaker 1:Um so, yeah yeah, uh, what is it country?
Speaker 6:girl, I agree, unless the the only way I would kind of be okay with what she's doing is if she, uh, is putting the light into the into the mirror or something into the mirror. But even then, like you got spotlight, so your spotlight can do that yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 1:And and they're both using handheld. I don't know if you can see you probably can't see my mouse Right there. That's his beam. I can see it and that's her beam right there. So they're both using handhelds. So now we're on a felony stop with only one hand on our weapons. And Alan's mentioned in the background, gun lights. Yeah, that's another thing. I have a gun light so, but it's not needed. You don't need it here.
Speaker 2:There's plenty of light. The light bars today are obnoxiously bright, yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, he's dropping F-bombs. Ooh, a's got a shooter stance.
Speaker 2:Still got that flashlight around Yep.
Speaker 1:This guy's got probably the second best view next to our person on the mic.
Speaker 5:He's into it. I'm going to try to pull him over because he stopped over here. Put your hands out Careful, hey, dude, hey, hey.
Speaker 1:He did shoot one-handed the whole time. He's going to need help.
Speaker 2:Did you see what just happened there? If you back that up about five seconds and watch the female at the passenger side because she's got that flashlight or something in her left hand, watch how she's shooting, watch her right hand when she's shooting, hey, do it, hey hey.
Speaker 1:Oh, she's just winging shots out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now watch.
Speaker 1:Just all one-handed and probably all over here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is an uncommon situation. I'm not critiquing her gunfire, I'm just the thing with the flashlight and the gun hand and having things to trace. Point about the earpiece and the lapel mic. Yeah, I.
Speaker 1:I am absolutely critiquing her gunfire. That's fucking unacceptable. Like I, I am very concerned with whoever is over over here because them shots.
Speaker 6:Now those shots are probably going going hard, left with the weak wrist, kind of like noodle like she's pushing into the car.
Speaker 1:So my thought is my natural, like if I'm aimed at the camera right now, if my body goes this to the left, my arm is naturally kicking out, versus if I can't in, when I start to go into my arm, I I go to the left. So to me she's shooting where my mouse is somewhere over here.
Speaker 2:Well, it goes back to what we said. I mean, in my opinion it goes back. I'm very cautious of critiquing in situations like this, because you know we're not there and and I think about, I think about the training, that the officers don't get that mimic situations like this.
Speaker 6:Yeah, that's true. Hell, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get it. But at the same time, man, it's like if we can't learn from being people talking a little bit of shit about what we're doing, like we're too sensitive, us as cops. I think that's one of our problems we get too sensitive with each other. I'm like that's bullshit. Shooting it is to me. I call it like I see it. If I was that chief, I'd be like oh hell, no, you are going to training, you are off the street. Until that's fixed, I get it, but well, let's finish. Let me see the video first, before I even start. Even going down that rabbit hole, I talk too much. I need help. Officer I need help.
Speaker 1:Mr Belfort's telling me to play it slow back. I don't know how.
Speaker 7:Driver in the red Toyota. Turn off your vehicle, put all your windows down.
Speaker 1:What are we looking at? Oh, I was looking down here at these cars. What are we looking at? Conductor del vehĂculo rojo Baja todas tus ventanas.
Speaker 8:He was swerving in and out of lanes. He almost teased into a car.
Speaker 7:I would try to pull him over, but he stopped over here. Careful, hey, dude, hey hey.
Speaker 5:Oh, yeah, yeah that angle angle he definitely took a shooter stance.
Speaker 1:That guy that kept firing was the guy on the ground be curious.
Speaker 2:Another backstory to this one. Yeah, dan said earlier about is there a reason? Know, it looked like he ran a red light, but was there something else that they were like looking for that car?
Speaker 1:Yeah, help. Oh, they had a shield, that's good.
Speaker 5:Slow it down, guys, slow it down Nice and slow, all right.
Speaker 1:Roll them over. Good, pat down. Damn. Okay, stop sharing. Yeah, that's oh Mr Billfold's probably trying to teach me here. Eric, click the settings where you check the quality. Oh, playback speed. Oh, he's right.
Speaker 2:You said you were the tech guy.
Speaker 1:Certain things, certain things. This is where everybody turns drunk. Oh, you guys can't see it. Swerving in and out of lanes. Skill must cease until. Hey, hey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, read the title. Yeah, I saw that it said cell phone afterwards. Yeah, so he was presenting a cell phone. It's definitely not the first time this has ever happened. There's plenty of cases where people have brought up a cell phone trying to present it like it's a gun and they've gotten shot. So, um, you know, look, it's dark out. They're all trying to use lights to see. Is what it is. Yeah, uh, suicide by cop again. In my opinion, um, stop sharing that one.
Speaker 6:Eric drank too much that that's also probably probably a situation where you really not thinking it's gonna turn out like that. I had an fto who, uh, I would I don't know why in one of my phases I would, I would, uh, I kept getting like building searches back to back to back, a bunch of them and then, um, I just stopped taking them serious and my fto was like dude, one time it's gonna be somebody in this building and you're fucking around not taking it serious and that can be the one in your life. So you have to treat every traffic stop like it could turn into that until you get a sense of who the person is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, these fuckers are not being nice to me tonight. I don't like it. I don't like it at all. I feel sensitive. What did Eric say? He's a tech guy. I don't like it at all. I feel sensitive. What did Eric say? He said take out. Yep, too much milk. Wait, shut up. All right, all y'all can shut up. Okay, that is all we have for videos. So before we go too far, scott, is there anything that you want to talk about? Is there anything you were like you know what? We had a lot of fun tonight, but I was really hoping we talked about this.
Speaker 2:No, I just I think what you're doing is remarkable. I think you know I don't want to keep saying the same thing, but you know, trying to, trying to. I don't like to use the word bridge the gap either, because it's so overused, but bridge that gap and help explain.
Speaker 1:It's only our mission statement, but whatever.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well then there you go To just help educate folks in why officers do what they do. And again, like I started with, I know I'm never going to get the haters and I'm always going to have the lovers. It's the people in the middle and I'm always going to have the lovers. It's the people in the middle and I think you're doing a good job trying to explain why officers do make these decisions and break down these videos and just give folks a different perspective. So just kudos for what you're doing and I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, not a problem, it's a good time 100% man.
Speaker 1:Now, yeah, I know Banning didn't really partake a whole lot tonight. He's he's been working his butt off out there. So, um, scott, now something you and I started discussing before we got going is you decided to start up a podcast.
Speaker 2:I did, but I didn't tell you the name of it.
Speaker 1:You didn't. That's where we were trying to get to.
Speaker 2:Banny do you know the name you told me and I forgot, so that's on me. Oh boy, I didn't want to break this on live, on live. Oh, you're breaking it on live, sir, so okay. So, let's, let's back up a little bit, okay, okay. So, let's, let's back up a little bit, okay. So we met you and I met last year, the year before, at the induction ceremony.
Speaker 2:It was last year it was last year, but it was real brief, right, like hey, how you doing? And you were, you're doing your thing and yeah, and I known Banning and Banning kind of made the connection and and, um, outside of that meeting you and I haven't really had any conversation other than through social media, like you know, liking comments and sharing things and and tagging each other and stuff. So I go to the FBI national Academy and I meet up, uh, I meet a guy who's a chief in Michigan and we were sitting um around one night and said you know we'll be fun is, why don't we start a podcast? You know, I'm from Ohio, you're from Michigan. Like we could have some fun with that. So we're like, yeah, whatever, what are we going to call it? And the guy's like I don't know, what do you think about I don't know a couple of chiefs and something. He's going back and forth and back and forth and I'm like I got an idea. I said, what about two chiefs, one mic?
Speaker 1:okay, interesting, right so so now, fast forward.
Speaker 2:We're coming up on the induction ceremony and I'm starting to like reconnect with all the people who are going to be at the hall of fame and blah, blah, blah, and I'm like, oh man, two chiefs, one mike, two cups, one donut, don't feel bad don't feel bad, I I.
Speaker 1:I ripped my name from two bears one cave, and they ripped their name from two girls one cup. So I mean six degrees of separation. That's where we're at, but if people want to find you, yeah, hey there it is.
Speaker 2:You found me two cheese one on all your favorite social media platforms. Yeah, so ours is uh, we, ours is. Well, as you will see, ours is uh like, like, uh low level, like you know, elementary school stuff. We're still trying to figure out how to start, how to edit and do things. But I tell you what we had on a I did have that episode three there, that death of K-9 Fury.
Speaker 2:I had a chief on whose department lost a K-9 in the line of duty and it was kind of interesting to hear Chief Colon, who's a friend of mine, kind of walk through that story and we're excited, you, interesting to hear Chief Colon, who's a friend of mine, kind of walk through that story and we're excited. You know we're not going to break any records or anything, but there are a lot of folks, I think, out there who are aspiring to maybe move up an organization. So we want to give aspiring chiefs or really leaders in general, just some ideas and tools and stuff they can put in their toolbox. So yeah, so that's that's that nice one, mike yeah, you know what they say.
Speaker 1:What is it? Uh, imitation is the best form of flattery there you go.
Speaker 2:That's it, there you go.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there you go oh that is so funny and don't say you're not going to break any, any records. You may, and I and I hope you do, uh, cause I know, I know your, I know your background, I know where you come from, I know your ethics. Um, I think you're going to do very well with it, so keep plugging away.
Speaker 2:Hell yeah, brother, thanks, we'll get you. We'll get you on an episode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you need any help with anything uh, you need advice on editing and all that stuff Like yeah, for sure, we've got it down bro.
Speaker 2:You guys doing a great job and we're going to hey, we're going to build on this next year at the induction ceremony too. I can't wait for our next board meeting. Hell yeah. I got some notes and I know you and I had a conversation offline and yeah, trey, will you come on my podcast? Hell yeah, I got you Of California PD.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I got you.
Speaker 2:Hell yeah.
Speaker 6:I got a question, though, for you T. Yes, I'm hiring.
Speaker 1:Can't afford Trey. What are you talking about?
Speaker 2:Trey, I will pay you enough money to get you better internet. I'll put that in your union contract. They call him Triple Trey. I will pay you enough money to get you better internet. I'll put that in your union contract.
Speaker 1:They call him Triple Trey out there.
Speaker 2:Always on that.
Speaker 1:Triple OT. That kid hasn't moved I know, he was sick.
Speaker 6:That's what took me so long to get on. He was having a fit because he was sick, so I was trying to give him medicine. He was fighting me with the medicine.
Speaker 2:So I think it's probably the medicine kicking in I want to get trey on or a little tj on the show.
Speaker 6:There you go oh, trust me, he would harass your whole uh right, just talking shit the whole time roasting.
Speaker 2:Oh, by the way, uh is mega stock, is that? Is that, megan?
Speaker 4:no, hers is her full name?
Speaker 2:oh okay, because it says notes dot, dot, dot dot. Like what do you mean? Notes like uh-oh sorry. Sorry, trey, what was your? Uh? You said you had a question for me. I'm sorry yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6:so in terms of like, especially, not necessarily like the older cops, but like kind of like 10 years and under five years, or like my, like my time on you here, you hear like. You hear cops say like oh, you know, the chief is just in the office, he doesn't know we're really going through and he's put all these policies in place without even considering officers long time at least in the field to get to your position. How could you make those officers understand where you sit and how do you find that balance?
Speaker 2:So that's a great question and I don't know if you were wrong when I first started, but I have a philosophy and that is that as the higher up you go, you always have to remember where you came from and you can't never lose sight of that. So little things. That I always suggest to leaders is and some departments really get by this Other departments are kind of like they struggle is like I think as a police chief, I should wear a uniform more often than not, Right, Like are there times where I have to wear a suit or I may have to dress business casual because I have a meeting or something off site? Possibly Right, but I think being in uniform sends the right message. Getting out in a police car periodically Now, when I say that in a room full of cops, people are like, oh my God, if the chief ever came out here, like somebody's in trouble, what's he out here trying to catch us doing and a lot of.
Speaker 2:That's probably more culture and that takes time to change. But you know I keep a paperwork that I've had with me for the 27 years, whatever I've been doing this, that sometimes I'll pull out just as a reminder, just to show my younger officers like hey look, I used to be a cop one day, Right? Just because I do think. Sometimes people think, oh, you just get hired as a chief and you were. You never did real police work and that's just not the case. But yeah, Good question. Don't know if I answered it, but that was a good question.
Speaker 6:No, no, I did.
Speaker 1:Some of the problems, though, is like policing's changed so much that the chiefs and the ACs and the DCs like being in patrol is nothing like when they were in patrol. You know even where I'm at. I don't know that any of the people in leadership at the top wore a body camera when they were in patrol.
Speaker 6:No no.
Speaker 2:So how can you relate? You know, honestly, I think I think that's where I'm getting some terrible feedback.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that's ghetto ass setup over there hey, we got to fix this broad fucking mic.
Speaker 2:Man, his mic is trey, I'm not drinking, but you're gonna cause me to start drinking if I just echo in my ear but that is the best, but I that
Speaker 2:that needs to be a t-shirt but I I think to that, to that point I think, and again I don't, I don't know. This is a whole another episode right on just leadership. I think what, what. What has to happen is those captains, those lieutenants, those chiefs that have never worn a body camera or are so far removed, they have to make the effort to try to connect with their troops.
Speaker 2:I've always believed that road patrol is the backbone of the organization and, in particular, night shift right, those folks, just those folks just are out there hustling and bustling and they are forgotten about. And I can remember, as a police officer, when I was young, I felt like I was so disconnected from what was going on in their organization because I was on night shift. You know, we would joke that the only way we knew what was going on is if we passed somebody on day shift in the hallway or we ran into them in court. So there's things that I do now as a chief to try to bridge that communication gap. But you know, the higher up you go, the harder you have to work.
Speaker 2:And it's so easy, in my opinion, for leaders to find excuses as to why they can't do something, as opposed to make it work Right, and again that's a whole nother like arena that we could get into sometime. But, um, I would, I would suggest and I'm sure you've had a guest on this show before that would, that would say this too that one of our biggest issues with recruitment and retention isn't what's going on in the media, it's leadership inside the organizations. So, but again, that's a different, that's a different topic, but happy to discuss it offline. You can find me on social media and stuff and happy to answer any questions I can.
Speaker 1:Hell, yeah, I'm going to address that. Everybody's talking about the ID crack stuff, so let's talk about that. We got time. I got time anyway, scott, I don't know if you got time.
Speaker 2:It's three hours past my bedtime, but I'm committed now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're in it. You're in it to win it. Um, so, id like, if you're wondering why cops ask for it so much, there's just, we are information gatherers. It's what we're here for. That's when we do anything. It's to gather information. One. It's.
Speaker 1:It's a liability thing if I go out and I don't say who I made contact with. You know. Not every time can I even do that because you don't have to ID. But we ask. There's nothing wrong with us asking for information. Guys, and I do it. I will ask for all the information I can get. If somebody tells me to go fuck myself, I'll be like, all right, well, I tried, appreciate it, have a good day that day, that's it.
Speaker 1:But yes, cops are id happy, crack happy. It's id crack. Yes, because we're information gatherers. That's what our job is. It's not just, uh, you know, showing up and and not taking account for anything. We have to try to take account for as much as we can because it comes in use later. It helps cover our butts later. It's a CYA thing.
Speaker 1:So, especially if they're like I called them out to that scene and they never showed up, they never talked to anybody. Yeah, I did. I talked to Mr Smith over here. He told me that he lives there and that's his property and he had a right to be on there, and he had a right to be on there. Okay, cool, you made contact with Mr Smith. Can we verify that? Yep, it's all about stuff like that. So you know.
Speaker 1:Now, I think where the difference comes in is when people start trying to demand it, and I think that's the problem that citizens have is officers demanding ID when they don't have a right to, and that is a big misstep in police training. Now, scott, what does your department do, if you can talk about it? I do know that chiefs have higher concerns than knowing exactly what training is being conducted at their. They say, hey, go train our guys, and you trust your guys to go train your people. But, um, what training at your department, for instance, or that you've seen, are you guys doing to ensure, um, that your officers know when and when they cannot, uh, ask for ID and stuff of that nature?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it goes back to what I said early on, and that is, if we're investing in a call for service, we have some lawful reason to be there, then we're going to get information to the point you just made. We have to fill out a report, we have to fill out, you know, whatever the policy might require for this or that. What we train our people in is don't do anything stupid and don't just go up and randomly ask people for their ID. If you don't have a reason to investigate, to investigate something, I mean I hate to say it, but it's very like common sense Just walk. You know, if you have a reason to be there, then I already said, there's a law here in our state where you have to give some information. Outside of that, I'm not following, and I, you know I apologize because I'm not on here every week I'm not following the the, the heartburn there with this ID thing, just because in my world we only ask it when we have a reason to ask, right?
Speaker 1:So I'll give you an example, like in Texas, and we'll get to Magnum's question here. Um, in Texas I can't like. Let's say, I get called for um, a person possibly trespassing. They want this person gone up at the 7-eleven. I get there. The dude's out on the sidewalk, he's not on property anymore. There are tons and tons and tons of videos of officers coming up and they'll go up to that person. They'll be like hey, let me get your id and like to issue a trespass warning that's what they want to do.
Speaker 1:They want to issue a trespass warning.
Speaker 2:So they have a lawful.
Speaker 1:Lawful reason? No, because, well, I mean they have a lawful reason to be there. Somebody called because there's a person on property that's not allowed to be there, right, but when the officers arrive, that person's not on property, so they don't have an offense on view. I'll see it would be different in our state. So in Texas I can't ID that person because just because. Okay, so maybe we can debate this a little bit in Ohio. So what you're telling me is in Ohio is simply calling the cops and saying that this person's doing something wrong gives you the right to ID them, and saying that this person's doing something wrong gives you the right to ID them.
Speaker 2:If not necessarily if they want to file. In your example, if they, if, if the owner of the gas station calls and says, hey, this person has been harassing customers, he's, he's, he's panhandling at the front door and we don't want him on our property any longer, then we can have you, we, we can have them trespass, fill out a trespass form that would ban them from that property, right? Or advise them hey, if you come back on this property you will be arrested, type of thing. So to fill that form out, we're going to have to get some ID from them because we have to put in their pertinent information.
Speaker 1:So what if they're not on property when you get there and it's just the store saying that, hey, this guy was here and he keeps being a pain in the ass?
Speaker 2:We would probably try to verify it with surveillance video or some other investigative tactic.
Speaker 1:But if you hadn't done that, you couldn't force this guy to ID because he wasn't on property and you have no on-view offense other than another person saying that he was on property.
Speaker 2:Perhaps. Yes, that's a very yeah. I mean, every situation is going to be different. Right, I can't say I don't even know that we would if we get to the store and a person like, yeah, they're, they're out there on the sidewalk, Don't worry about it anymore, where they were probably just going to go the other way and I didn't worry about it, Right. But if they're persistent about it, hey, we want to file charges or we want to have this person trespassed. Then we're going to follow through with it. But I can't speak to every state, just talk.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, so Ohio runs much and I've never lived in Ohio, for you know obvious reasons it's Ohio.
Speaker 2:So same reason I don't live in Michigan.
Speaker 1:Well, we wouldn't let you.
Speaker 2:So there's a difference. Now you're not coming on my podcast.
Speaker 1:If I come on your podcast, it's going to be blue head to toe.
Speaker 2:You just can see big Michigan things all over. I got to deal with it. Now We've done four episodes. I got to deal with it. The very first episode, the very first episode he signs off and he says I said uh, chief, you got anything to take us home. Whatever you want to say anything, get us out of here. He goes, go blue. I'm like, of course, that's what you say, um, okay.
Speaker 1:So another question uh, what are your thoughts on muting body cameras? Um, we've had this discussion. I'll tell you my stance we should never be muting body cameras, ever. And my reason behind that is, at least at my department, we have a team that is there. For what do they call it? What's that word? Banny Redaction, redaction yes, that's their job. So there's no reason for us to be muting anything in the field. So there's no reason for us to be muting anything in the field, and I've heard the arguments that people will make of. You know well, if we're doing tactical talks or doing this, we got to do that. We're discussing juvenile information or HIPAA information, whatever it is. That's the redaction team's job. That's what they do, just in case there's some sort of evidentiary value of something that we muted over and now we can't get that back. So to me, we should never be muting our body cameras. That's my opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think in an organization like yours, where you're, you have that type of a team or that type of a group, that that's all they do, full time. That's probably a very easy argument. I think the the average agency that doesn't have that capability. They may need more flexibility. You know, I know for me, like interviewing, like a child sex victim or something like that we're not going to shy away from the intermuted. Having said that, I would say probably 95% of our, our interactions, they don't turn them off because it's a it takes too much work to do that yeah, to mute them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a pain in the butt to try to mute, honestly I know there's a mute function on our, on ours. I just don't need.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't even I don't and I'm you know. They say they can't get that information back, but I don't know. I mean these, I don't know.
Speaker 4:Now I see these things can record well even these new, these new uh, which is pretty cool when it comes down to a use of force that comes out of nowhere.
Speaker 4:Give you an example officer getting off his lunch break, walking out to his car, gets in a shootout and once it's done, he reaches up there and taps it. Well, for all appointed training reasons, it got the last 30 seconds to a minute, depending on what that that the department has, those axons or motor or whatever they have. But these new ones that are out now are taking in and I'm preaching to the choir, to the panel, but it takes what's called fragmented video and audio throughout the whole time that this thing is on standby and that can become amazingly helpful if an officer is blindsided or what have you, where they can kind of put the puzzle pieces together and see that fragmented video of legit, not legit this is kind of the pieces that happen. Then they get the closed circuit video from other businesses and they kind of build it. I appreciate that technology. Now, if I'm off going in my house and if I'm a retard that didn't turn my frigging body camera to off walking in. You can't say the R word.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean. I'm talking about an under-trained officer. I will call that because I've been there as an under-trained officer. I will call him that because I've been there as an under-trained officer and I call myself that. That has nothing to do with mental disability. This is Banning, calling Banning that word when it comes to training.
Speaker 1:I'm still getting sensitive. Now I'm just messing with you. Let me see here that buffer that you talked about Banning.
Speaker 6:it is useful, it can hurt. I've seen it hurt people too. But it can help. It's helped me for sure before that buffer where I got into something. I'm like fuck, I didn't turn my camera on, but then I hit it real quick and it caught just before, right before everything cracked off, it caught itself.
Speaker 2:We got the feature too, which is really cool, where you pull your taser out or you pull your gun out, and automatically turns the camera on, which is which is great from a training perspective, cause now you don't have to focus on training the officer to hit the body camera, draw their gun.
Speaker 4:You're talking about the trigger mechanism within the holster correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, on both the taser and the gun, so it clicks on automatically, which is awesome from a training perspective to not have to mess with teaching cops to turn it on and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and to Patrick, true love, cops don't fall under HIPAA and can't violate HIPAA laws as they aren't medical personnel. True. However, it's still policy and procedure at departments to not violate HIPAA laws and I don't want to get fired. And too, ethically and morally it's not right, shouldn't be giving up people's medical information. So cool, I can't be charged with it, I don't want to be fired and it's not right. So that's like the argument that people try to make. Well, the Supreme Court ruled that cops don't have an obligation to intervene or put their life on the line for other people. Okay, cool, just because the Supreme Court said that doesn't mean that my oath didn't and my oath means a lot more to me than what the Supreme Court said. Just like if the Supreme Court was you know, now I won't go down that road, I won't go down that road. I won't go down that road. I was about to say some reckless stuff. I won't go that road. I won't get too reckless tonight. But yeah, it doesn't matter to me that I don't fall under HIPAA laws because I'm not medical. It's not right, you shouldn't do it. So I wouldn't want my HIPAA information being out there. So when I have my body cam out. I'm very cognizant of that. I don't try to record or do any of that. I'll be like, oh, I'm recording and I'll step out if they got to talk or do whatever. So let me see going down.
Speaker 1:And then somebody had said something about that. They, they mute intent. Oh, it was this one. The evidentiary value is not there for a reason cops know when they are wrong and they try to hide it, just saying, okay, you're speculating, because I've seen officers, especially young single officers, do some dumb shit where they'll mute their thing. Check that girl out over there, sergeant, I'm like you're an idiot, fix your camera and then we have some training issues. So it has nothing to do with that. But I'm not saying that for everybody might. What you said could very well be true somewhere else. Um, cops have an obligation to actually do a lot of things like uphold an oath, protect our rights under the Constitution. They fail at that every day for officer safety and to heck with civilians. Eh.
Speaker 1:You can say that I've seen officers do a lot of great things. Part of the reason we have the Hall of Fame for officers because of the amazing things they're out there doing. So agree to disagree.
Speaker 6:There are several court cases aside with officer safety, which is I don't know. People just fail to even realize that that's a thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm laughing at Eye of the Knight's comment. It's okay. The VA has been hacked so many times. Your medical info is out there. Yeah, now you guys know about my tinnitus. Oh shit, what happened, banding? Are you still there? Can you hear me? Yeah, oh man, my computer freaked out for a second everything highlighted and and fucking Harrison Brock's in my computer.
Speaker 4:If your computer's messing up, it's Alan's fault.
Speaker 1:That's true, eric. She says that because the exceptionalism is the exception, not the rule. True Scott, thanks for coming tonight. Good show you guys. Everyone have a good week. Thanks, ozark Moon. Thank you Appreciate that. Good show you guys. Everyone have a good week. Thanks, ozark Moon. Thank you appreciate that. Sometimes your head is in the sand. Possibly I am optimistic to a fault. Y'all is what it is so, but with that, I'm just giving everybody their last second chance to say stuff we have roughly a million. I always use this example right here, bro. With that, I'm just giving everybody their last second chance to say stuff we have roughly a million.
Speaker 6:LAOs. I always use this example right here, bro. There's about a million law enforcement officers nationwide. 1% are probably bad and 1% is still a huge number, yeah 350 million calls for service each year.
Speaker 1:I think it's like .006% of those lead to a use of force ora complaint. So things to consider. I could throw stats at you guys all day. That's it still doesn't help when we have hundreds and hundreds of videos, uh, that we get to see all the time of cops screwing up, and that's why we have this show. Let's talk about the good things they do, but let's talk about the bad things and try to learn from them. How do we fix them? That's part of why we do what we
Speaker 1:do. All right, guys, we're at two and a half hours. I want to chat with these guys offline as soon as we get off here. But everybody else, thank you for being out here Harrison Brock, country Girl and the other ones Anybody else that I may have missed that tried to throw some fundage our way. Thank you very much. If you guys like what we're doing, please, it is free to just hit that like and subscribe button on any of our platforms. Youtube one helps us out the most, but if you're an Instagram person, run over there, follow us on Instagram. Just look up 2Cops One Donut. If you have Apple or Spotify or any of the other little podcast things. Give us a follow, subscribe to us on there too, because when it downloads, those numbers come back to us and it helps us there
Speaker 1:too. Believe it or not, we really don't kill it in downloads. Most of our numbers come from our social media stuff and what we're doing here, but we would love for you guys to support, and for anybody that has the monetary financial freedom Harrison Brock, be sure to member up on our YouTube channel, because anybody that gets grandfathered in once DTV hits the road, you guys are going to get tracked over there for free. So we've and we've got some surprises coming down the road for the DTV stuff. Um, done and done, but I don't. Instagram, thanks, never, never gives me shit all the time too, so I'm just. The fact that you're following me never makes me feel like we're making some progression. So I like that. Uh, scott, any closing words, sir?
Speaker 2:no, sir, appreciate it. It's late here, so, uh, you know this has been a good, uh, a good, a good opportunity to come on and uh happy to come on anytime you, uh, you need a last minute guest who has a face for radio. Yeah banning.
Speaker 1:You got anything, buddy?
Speaker 4:no, uh, my dad always told me I had a great face for radio, and I love that comment, nice, I would ask Trey, but I see his kids still sleeping.
Speaker 1:Okay, trey, if you want to say something, you can. I just don't want to wake your kid up, that's all. I'm trying to be kind.
Speaker 6:No, he's out, but no, I ain't got nothing. No.
Speaker 1:Okay, all everybody appreciate you guys tonight. Thank you very much. Gina Maria would love to buy a hoodie.
Speaker 4:Thank you all for staying in all your comments. We appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you guys. Everybody, have a good night, take it easy.
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