We Break Down How Poor Training, Not Bad Intent, Fuels Bad Policing And What To Fix First

Training failures show up on camera long before intent does. That’s the uncomfortable truth we wrestle with as we unpack why officers who can pass a constitutional test still stumble on the street when emotions spike and decisions shrink to hundredths of a second. With Officer Jorge Lopez back in the chair, we go beyond blame and dig into fixes you can measure.

We start with the human element: how stress “magnetizes” officers toward danger, why empathy is hard to simulate, and how the wrong FTO can turn a rookie cynical in four weeks. Then we get practical. VR is evolving past flat screens to full‑immersion, haptics, and branching scenarios that pressure‑test distance, cover, and tone. AI on bodycams is poised to surface department policy, state law, and translations in real time—recording the questions you ask and the logic you use. Drone first responder programs give “eyes on” in under a minute, buying the only commodity that truly boosts survivability: time.

Two high‑stakes clips ground the talk. In a Walmart detention, a teen’s concealed pistol misfires at contact distance; the officer’s restraint and a bystander Marine’s control prevent a disaster and spotlight the cost of a poor pat‑down. In a hallway call, a suicidal subject with a knife sprints toward officers; commands collapse, and the priority of life takes over. We pull apart what went right and where training needs to adapt: holster discipline, obstacle use, disengagement, and scenario‑based constitutional drills that force choices under pressure, not just recitation in a classroom.

We don’t dodge the tough policy questions either. Fixed “25‑foot” filming laws are brittle; “reasonable distance” tied to a clear marker is smarter. Case law like Pennsylvania v. Mims exists for officer safety, not convenience—abuse it and we’ll lose it. Transparency shouldn’t stop at patrol; bodycams shouldn’t mute, and courts should meet the same standard with smart redaction. The throughline is simple: better training beats tough talk. Build reps that blend law and tactics, leverage VR a

Peregrine.io: Turn your worst detectives into Sherlock Holmes, head to Peregrine.io tell them Two Cops One Donut sent you or direct message me and I'll get you directly connected and skip the salesmen.

Transcript

Opening, Guest Intros & Theme

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Disclaimer. Welcome to Two Cops One Donut Podcast. The views and opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Two Cops One Donut, its hosts or affiliates. The podcast is intended for entertainment and informational purposes only. We do not endorse any guests' opinions or actions discussed during the show. Any content provided by guests is of their own volition, and listeners are encouraged to form their own opinions. Furthermore, some content is graphic and has harsh language, viewer discretion advised, and is intended for mature audiences. Two Cops One Donut and its host do not accept any liability for statements or actions taken by guests. Thank you for listening. All right, welcome back to Cops One Donut. I'm your host, Sergeant Eric Levine. With me today, I have the one, the only big ginger beard bastard banning Sweatland. And with me, our special guest once again, the Officer George Lopez, not the comedian. Not the comedian. Good to be here, man. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. What's going on out there in the uh two cops, one donut verse? Is that a thing? I just made that up. Uh so today's episode, y'all. What we plan to kind of discuss is George and I were having like a side conversation. Just, you know, he was a little disheartened that um he joined the Discord and he's like, Man, I cannot believe how many videos that your people find of cops kind of screwing the pooch. Behaving badly. Behaving badly. Yeah. And that kind of brought the theme in my head. And I've said this before on multiple occasions. Cops are, you know, 99.9% out there are doing the right thing. Doing the right thing. It's not that I don't think 99% of them aren't doing the right thing. I think that number is overly inflated. I think there's less of them doing the right thing. And by doing the right thing, what I'm referring to is poor training. I still don't think that there's cops that are out there. Um, there's there's many cops out there. I don't think that there's that many cops out there doing the wrong thing intentionally. I think they've got poor training. Um, I think they completely misunderstand some of the the laws and how the constitution works. I think they've got skewed ways that people have been telling them how it does work. And that is just going to breed more and more bread training. So that is what we're going to be talking about. Oh, Jude Ramsey, I just want to point this one out. Uh, and we do have Alan behind the scenes, y'all. Alan is in the house. Um, so he's going to be showing the comments and helping us out and doing all that stuff. Uh, but yeah, and like Mike Cucumber said, we can do better, Eric. First thing we have to do is acknowledge the problem. And I I agree. I think that that's kind of what we got going. But before we get going down that path, I gotta give a shout out. You guys know I talked to about Smoke Wagon just about every show that we do on live stream. I gave a shout out to Smoke Wagon on their Instagram page. And this particular bottle, it's called 777. I mean, get it up here to the to the camera. There you go. So I commented, I was like, that's pretty cool. You guys are out there innovating, doing stuff. And they sent me a bottle. Pretty cool, not an official sponsor or anything like that, but uh yeah, they sent me a bottle, and I was like, cool. So I poured me a glass, I took a nice fancy picture of it and shared it. Thanks, guys. Really appreciate it. This is amazing. I tasted it, it's really good. Well, then somebody said, Man, you got some pricey taste, and I'm like, What do they mean? So I looked it up, it's like an$1,100 bottle of freaking booze that that I'm sharing with my friend. So salute. This is his first time ever even tasting smoke wagon. So I want to know what you think. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Oh my God. Oh, I forgot to drink mine. Oh, I didn't, Eric didn't give me any.

SPEAKER_06 4:01

Howdy, what do you think? That's really good. You like that? Yeah. Okay. I'm not a connoisseur by any means, but yeah, I know I know that that's good.

SPEAKER_05 4:08

Exactly. Um what's the oh Alan? That's it's George, George Lopez. Alan. Alan's behind the scenes, he doesn't know. Uh, too funny. Uh George with a J. Now we're G. Yeah. Yep. J-O-R-G-E. Yep. George. Yeah, exactly. At your service, my guy. Um, oh, and we are also simultaneously on Instagram, which is a vertical platform. So I apologize if it looks a little weird for my people over on Instagram. Uh, we will try to get your uh your comments up there. I see BS Narcotics. No, that doesn't stand for bullshit narcotics, that stands for Brandon Smith Narcotics. He actually trains, he actually trained people up with us with Nasty.

SPEAKER_08 4:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 4:56

And we just did our last episode. Uh, so make sure you guys check out the new podcast that was just released um with BS Narcotics and uh Chris McNasty McNulty. Uh great dude, knows this stuff about gang. Rich Kramer in the house. What's up over there on Instagram? Make sure you guys check out Rich's channel. Uh John Kendurcey says, keep doing what you're doing. Thanks. Retiring after 26 years, January 6th. You made it, brother.

SPEAKER_06 5:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 5:25

Way to go. You made it. He goes, now there's two Georges. Who are you? El Chivo. Uh, too funny.

SPEAKER_06 5:34

There's only one George.

VR And AI For De‑Escalation

SPEAKER_05 5:35

Um, going over. Yep, we did get some new mods. We got some new YouTube mods. We got some new Facebook and Instagram mods. We are trying to expand, y'all. So uh appreciate everybody helping out, stepping up. Um, LinkedIn users said wish you all a very Merry Christmas. That's got to be banning's people. They're so sweet over there. Instagram sucks for live stream. Yeah, it does suck for live stream. We have not been getting the love over there. Um, you can't even see how many people are on right now over there. But uh yeah, so that's I'm trying to think if there's any other news that we got. I got my desktop running again. That's that's a plus. Yep. Um, so that's going. What's going on in your world, George?

SPEAKER_06 6:16

I am um currently doing research for virtual reality as it pertains to training specifically for de-escalation.

SPEAKER_05 6:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 6:27

And I'm I'm very hopeful that the technology will catch up. And there's there's ins and outs to it and programming, and it's it's being written from scratch by one of the local colleges that's doing it. That it's part of a Department of Justice grant.

SPEAKER_05 6:42

Okay. So what do you mean? How are we going to use AI for de-escalation? Is it like scenario-based training? Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 6:50

Right. So you know the simulator. Correct. Uh, if we could make the simulator more immersive, we eliminate some of the um breakdown in training, because sometimes there's that there's that contract of fiction that has to be overcome. And I'm stealing that from uh Lon Bartell of Vertra. But the contract of fiction is basically that you as the trainee and me as the trainer have to agree on this contract of fiction that um you have to agree to suspend your disbelief about the reality of what's going on because it's just a screen. Right. I have to suspend the disbelief and the fiction of this is not a real-world event with real world consequence. So we have to come to that agreement, and we both have to have some buy-in training worthwhile. And what we're looking to see is if having a completely 360-degree immersive environment that takes your eyes and your ears and and just completely immerses you into a virtual reality environment, uh, or an augmented reality environment for that matter, will that help you uh buy that contract of fiction and get better training?

SPEAKER_05 8:02

I gotcha. And I can tell you, as somebody that's been messing around with some VR stuff, I got to play with some of the axon VR stuff. And one of the scenes is it kind of takes you through the process of getting to the moon. So they show like, you know, the buildup of the rockets, and then all of a sudden you're getting onto the loading dock, you're getting inside the rocket, the rocket takes off, then you're up on the moon. Everything is immersive. You're looking down at the earth. I can tell you right now, like, if I wasn't standing still, if I would have been moving around, there's a very good chance I would have fallen because I'm so immersed and believe I'm in the environment that I'm in. So I see the practical application when it comes to police training, and I'm just curious. We're not that far away from it being like so creepy real.

SPEAKER_06 8:56

Yeah. And what I'm finding with with all this stuff that they're developing at the college is that it's very hard to replicate human emotion or to simulate it. So that and that's probably the biggest part of any kind of de-escalation or de-escalation attempts is that you have to you have to be able to have some you have to have some emotional intelligence and you have to be able to I don't like the word manipulate, but navigate someone's emotions to get them back into thinking.

SPEAKER_05 9:24

Right.

SPEAKER_06 9:25

Okay. And that that's kind of hard to kind of hard to program in with zeros and ones.

SPEAKER_05 9:30

Yeah. Yep. Banning, have you done anything with the virtual training?

SPEAKER_00 12:29

I've done a little bit. Um gosh, a couple of years ago at a Shot Show, there were a few companies set up out there, and and the problem is they were, and this has probably been fixed by now, but showing those true physical indicators that are nonverbal. And we're sitting there trying to de-escalate a situation, and for that, what do you even call it? The avatar, whatever you're talking to, uh the person of interest is um when they would try to show those physical nonverbal cues that officers are supposed to pick up on uh before maybe a physical act happens, uh, their motors were having problems developing that. And I I believe that they've gotten uh by that several or a lot better now. Uh however, it was kind of I say infancy stage, but two years ago uh in this technology, that is infancy stage in a lot of companies because there's so many growing. Um, and I know they're getting better and better, but I've got to mess around with some. Uh I didn't really get to train with it much when I was active. Uh our agency definitely didn't have the the funds to send uh people to do that. Uh, but when I was at my previous agency, we got to do a lot more of that type of training.

SPEAKER_05 13:35

Hell yeah. I've had um I've had good experience with virtual reality stuff. Uh taser training was great, leading the the targets. They're they've got people running across and you're shooting, watching it tells you where your hits would have been, how to adjust. Everything about it will help you improve. And and they actually show a really good video. Uh, I just went to to the Axon CEO summit. And so I got to you do the virtual training for the Taser 10. And what I really liked about it is you're in this immersed environment where you really don't even move from one spot, but you're getting practice, you're getting that haptic feedback. You can feel when you're firing, you can hear the taser load up, and you've got unlimited shots. And I mean, not virtually you have unlimited shots, but you still got your 10 shots, and it shows you when you get the good connections, when you get the good hits. And then they show you a video of a female officer that had just went through the training, through the virtual training, and then a guy attacks, charges at them, her and her partner with a knife, and she takes like a 40-foot shot and puts the guy down as he's in running motion, like gets him, boom. They move in, get him, they don't have to shoot him. And she said it felt like I was right back in the simulator, it shot just how I was in the simulator. Yeah, so that tells you how far the training is coming to where an officer in the field goes, that's just like the training I just did. Yeah, that's a good thing. Yep, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 15:01

So I think uh you mentioned haptic. Once once we once we start developing good interactive AI programming and learning AI, and it it's it's amazing how quickly it is learning. Um, just from watching it and being an outsider and not knowing understanding really how that works. It's it's pretty amazing. Yeah. But once that all really catches up, it's gonna be it's gonna be great. Ready player one. Yes, yeah, it's gonna be really good.

SPEAKER_05 15:29

Yeah, absolutely. Uh let me let me go over to the comments. I know some people are in there making some chats. Uh I miss chocolate or buckeye chocolates. Yeah, my mom's actually making a whole mess of them right now. I don't know if that's a Michigan thing, calling them buckeyes. It's peanut butter balls with chocolate around them.

SPEAKER_06 15:48

It looks like a buckeye.

SPEAKER_05 15:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 15:50

It's like a buckeye seed.

SPEAKER_05 15:51

Right. Yeah, we always we call them buckeyes. I don't know if that's what everybody calls them, though. So I saw somebody, uh, it was John John Seal. Where did he say Lopez looks like a guy that would yell at recruits? Six foot 90 degree leaning lean arrest.

SPEAKER_06 16:05

No, he's he's saying 690, 690.

SPEAKER_05 16:08

Oh, 690. Okay, yeah, yeah. Okay, I got you. Yeah, you're right. No, George was never a yeller.

SPEAKER_06 16:15

I could raise my voice.

SPEAKER_05 16:17

You could, but you're you were more of a word assassin through somebody called me a cerebral assassin. Cerebral assassin. That's a good one, yeah. Yeah, George knew how to get you where it hurt the most. Um, Greg Renee Turner said, I sent my Rangers to VR training in Colorado, but it helps some of uh oh shit, we're we're going too fast here. It helps some of the skill set for us doing enforcement on ranches and rural land. They had now girls that meet our requirements three years before I retired from the department. This last year, we stopped sending rangers to that training, and we just went ahead, just improved our in-house training in natural settings. We used acting scenario actors to reenact investigations and other types of crime scene interactions on the winters and farms. I think that's supposed to be the ranches and farms and rural land. We had more improved skill training in the VR just personal opinion as a chief of a department at that time. Agreed. Anytime you can get live actors, that's that's how we roll. Um, is the live actors too. Uh want to watch someone from TCOD, including the mods get tased, jump over to Discord. Yeah, make sure you guys join our Discord. Um, we do got some merch out there. If you guys want to get that merch, uh you can head over to ghostpatch.com, type in two cops one donut. You can get cool things like this flex badge here. Uh it looks like metal, but it's not. It's velcro on the back. Kind of neat. Put that up in the camera. Look at that. Real nice. Somewhere over there. I am got it. There we go. All right. Enough shameless plug.

SPEAKER_06 18:05

I'll get I'll get tased for a bottle of this.

SPEAKER_05 18:07

Yeah. I'll drink to that. This stuff is delicious. I just want to make sure everybody gets to partake in the fanciness.

SPEAKER_06 18:16

You can pepper spray me, tase me, and then hit me with a baton for a bottle of it.

SPEAKER_05 18:22

All right. I know how much it costs to uh beat George's ass.

SPEAKER_06 18:25

And probably bolo wrap if you want to. There we go. Yeah, we could do that one too.

SPEAKER_05 18:29

Shits and giggles. The giggles and shits. Uh Andy Fletcher. Arg late again. I like a good pirate. There we go. Can I drink too? Yeah, you can drink absolutely, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Long as you're 21 in whatever state you're in.

SPEAKER_05 18:44

Fishing reading it, Eric. I think he meant to say finish reading it. He said, jump over to Discord, pay us a buttload of money, we will make it happen. Um, yeah, my mods, they all get paid fat. It's in imagination money, but in the planet in land of imagination, they're rich. They're mega rich. Yeah, mega rich. One day. Get billionaires. One day. One day I'll pay Banning, then I'll pay the mods. Banning's kind of been around a little bit longer than them. Uh, I see one of Robert Brooks' killers got 25 years and 25 to life. Which one's Robert Brooks?

SPEAKER_06 19:25

I'm not familiar.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

I get so many stories sent to me, I can't remember who I know.

Human Emotion vs Training Limits

SPEAKER_05 19:29

I can't keep up with them all. Um, spray me with smoke wagon, Bradley Young. Right? Oh shit. 18 with parental consent. Hey, Bill. Uh drink whatever age you are, don't be a statist. Hey, listen, I will tell you right now, I was drinking. I'm I grew up Catholic. I was drinking very young.

SPEAKER_06 19:55

You know what? I'd have a beer with my dad, you know, but it was in in Hispanic culture, it was uh almost a rite of passage with your old man to have a beer after work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:06

I mean, you guys think that you're becoming women at 13 years old and uh crazy stuff.

SPEAKER_06 20:13

Have you ever been to a Latino birthday party? I mean, if the kid doesn't have to be 16 or 15, just a three-year-old kid. Everybody's having somebody like too crazy.

SPEAKER_05 20:23

Yeah, too crazy. Uh yeah, we make loads. You should see my pool. It's three inches longer than Eric's pool. Too funny. Um has anyone noticed the parallel between Erica Kirk and Courtney Love? No. Why would I pay attention to that? That sounds political. We don't do politics on here, bro. Chacho, Chillin von Dylan. That's a cool name, though. Uh but all right. You guys know what this is about. We are going to jump over to some videos. Um I want to show a quick short, and then we'll get into our topic and we'll start discussing that more, and then we'll jump into some more videos. So, share screen. Let's see how this is gonna look with our setup here. Hey, there we go. That doesn't look bad, does it? I like it. I like it too. Okay. And I hope you guys can feel better in other countries. Part 26. Police, fuck the police. So I'll give you guys the breakdown of what just happened there. Because the the the text, the what do you call it? The CC was blocked. Um, closed caption was blocked. You couldn't see it because of our big heads. But basically, he's dropping some NWA uh lyrics saying, Fuck the police, fuck the police. And the female cop comes over and is basically like, you couldn't fuck this police if you wanted to. Uh just gives them a little roast, it's nice. But then she comes over and asks for ID. So I I've getting I get pushback occasionally from those. They're like, you know, you're only making these videos to make American cops look good, and we know American cops screw up too. You okay. If that's your argument, that's a poor argument because I show American cops screw up all the time on here. That's not the reason I do it. I actually have had a lot of people from other countries, including Germany, that that video was sent to me from a German citizen. They want their police held to higher standards. So they want us to show these videos. They want just as much public opinion brought down on what they think is bad over there as what we do over here. I think our country does really well keeping checks and balances with our police departments. So that's the purpose. Behind why we did it. And so that's kind of one of the things I want to get into the discussion is that cop's ego, possibly, because we don't speak the language, we don't know why she was there. Yeah. But possibly her ego took over because he's dropping some fucked police if she understands English.

SPEAKER_08 23:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:10

And now comes over and IDs them. And over there, you don't have a choice. The cops say, Give me your ID. Vivant your papers. Show me your papers.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Yeah. Exactly. You have to agree regardless of what people say. Think of that song. That song is globally known, even though it's in English. Everybody knows what they're saying in that song.

SPEAKER_05 23:30

Oh, yeah, yeah. My NWA tape was labeled Garth Brooks. Like I had a mixed tape said Garth Brooks on there, but it was NWA. My mom's listening right now. So that'll be great conversation later. What? What? So um Mr. Billfold said the difference is at least we have a constitutional right to be secure in our papers. No other country affords that right. They can ID anyone they want at any time in Germany. Yeah. And that and that's kind of the point. It's not, again, it's not to make German police like they're better worse than us. It's just we have to share the perspective. We have to understand and talk about the the luxuries and freedoms that we have over here. Um, they're rights. I don't mean them as luxuries and freedoms necessarily. They're rights, but it's really cool what we do have. So for people that never travel, like it gets sketchier the farther away from the US that you get. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:33

And I think people in other countries would call what we have luxuries. Yeah. The luxury to voice your opinion, the luxury to uh protest. Yeah, free of the luxury to be secure in your home. Yeah, until until we see that violated too.

SPEAKER_05 24:50

Somebody some cop sticks his foot in your doorway. Yeah. Yeah. It's always bad news. But um brand R86, would you have thought German would have changed that after right? You would have thought the Germany would have changed that after World War II thing. Yeah. Yeah, you you definitely would. I mean, we did provide them freedom. You think they would have kind of adopted some of the American culture there? Absolute power corrupts absolute. Uh the fuck the police song came uh before we had Rodney King video back when no one believed in police brutality being real, unless it happened to them. Yeah, you're right. You're right. That's where a lot of these rap groups came from. They were trying to share the injustices that they were seeing. Um Flavor Flav with uh Public Enemy uh was a big one. Um, what were some of the other political groups that were out there?

SPEAKER_06 25:50

I can't really you're not a big rap guy back then, would you? In that time, I was I was apparently part of the problem. I was in the government. I worked. I was overseas.

SPEAKER_05 26:00

Were you really? Oh, that's right. I always forget how old you are. Thanks, man. Fuck. Appreciate that. Uh so that gets us into our topic. Let's get into our topic training. Um, cops, not uh not constantly being shown more than we expected as police officers doing shitty things and wrong things and stuff like that. So, George, let's get into what made you send that message to begin with and what you were seeing and how you see it.

SPEAKER_06 26:28

Okay. Um I finally got on the Discord and I don't know my way around it, and I don't know how to navigate it or anything like that.

SPEAKER_05 26:35

But we got a lot of mods on here right now, so they'll help you out.

SPEAKER_06 26:38

Yeah. So I just clicking here, clicking there, and I clicked on one. It was a shared video, and it was a video of uh oh what video was it that we were talking about. Uh basically, this this cop doesn't know what he's doing, and he's he's in my perspective, going about things the wrong way, uh almost to the point where he's violating civil rights. And I thought to myself, you know what? I I just we're our own worst enemies out here. We're doing a job that is really difficult, even under the best of circumstances, and we're we're not doing it well. So what can we do to start looking at how to address that? And that's when I texted you, and you know, I I on the last podcast I was on, someone mentioned on there that they they appreciated my optimism, but they didn't share it. Yeah, and that that really resonated with me when I watched that second video because then I thought, you know what, maybe I'm just overly optimistic and I'm really missing something here. So I got to thinking, and that's when I texted you and just kicking the idea around. And I'm I'm really before I even say anything else, I would like to just make it very clear that understanding things about human behavior and emotion and reaction time and the science behind why we do what we do, being able to explain behavior is not condoning the behavior, it's not supporting the behavior, it's not excusing the behavior, it's simply adding a biological, physiological, psychological aspect to why what happened happened. Right. So it's not when I say that um I remember part of the discussion last time, um he's violating you know the fourth amendment. Well, and I responded with, well, he's an emotional, he's forgetting the fourth amendment. That's not that's not to validate that officer forgetting the fourth amendment, right? That's just to scientifically scientifically explain why that could have happened. There are other possibilities. That guy could just not care about the Fourth Amendment. It could be that he's a, you know, he grew up that way and he just has these things. I I don't know that. There's no way to know that. Yeah. But what I do know is that human response emotions, they all stay within a basic human spectrum that has a finite point on one end and a finite point on the other. The very best that we are able to respond or react to something, and the very worst way we're able to. So anytime I try to explain a behavior or a response or a reaction, that that's not me trying to defend the action. That's me giving just my perspective from what I've learned, um, what I believe could have been the initiation of that.

SPEAKER_05 29:26

Yeah. And I think you gave a good example. I'm gonna read that question here in a second, um, Alan. Uh, but well, leave it up there, dummy. Uh but I think you brought up a great example last time when you you said you got mad and you punched a wall. You knew better. You know not to do it. You know it's a stupid thing to do, but emotionally you that you forgot all that. You didn't care, and you still punched the wall. So kind of the same premise. You know the Fourth Amendment, but if you get emotionally hijacked, suddenly you forget.

unknown 30:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 30:01

And then when you get that moment of clarity back, you're like, ah fuck, I knew better.

SPEAKER_06 30:05

So that's what's that's what really got the wheels turning. So what I was thinking is is it's not looking at this, we we can't deny that there's a pattern of events. There's a pattern, there's they're very similar. Okay, officers don't know their authority, citizens do know their authority, officers get upset because they don't know their authority, and then they overstep their authority and bad things happen. Yeah, so that's the basic format of those those kind of problems. So, what is causing that problem? Because we can be angry and we should be angry, but Aristotle said it's not enough. Anybody can be angry. I'm I'm paraphrasing here, Aristotle. I don't, you know, we had we had a few drinks.

SPEAKER_05 30:47

He's been around a while.

SPEAKER_06 30:48

Back in the yeah, yeah, back in the day. We hung out. But he said it's easy for anyone to get angry, but you have to be able to get angry at the right time for the right reason, at the right person, with the right intent. That not everybody can do. So what I'm asking here is is can I be angry about what's going on and still be uh uh effective in trying to make it better instead of just sitting here being angry and pointing fingers and and screaming at the wind?

Culture, Generations, And FTO Impact

SPEAKER_05 31:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I want to get to this question here. Uh, what do you guys think about cops using Punisher logos when the Punisher clearly doesn't like cops? Um I've I've spoken about this before. Uh I don't believe one that cops even understand the message that they're putting out when they're putting the Punisher sticker on stuff. Uh I don't condone it. I think it's stupid. I think um you it shouldn't be representing, especially in uniform. If you want to put it on your car, your personal car, fucking go to it. I mean, I've got Darth Vader stuff. My dog's name's Kylo. I like love the dark side of the force, but that doesn't represent how I am in police work, and I completely understand that I'm into space wizards. Uh I like sci-fi, man. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_08 32:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:07

Um, so if you like comic books and you're into that shit and you you like the Punisher style of justice, okay, that's one thing to be a fan, but you can't mix the two in police work. This is a profession, and I think it has no business.

SPEAKER_06 32:19

What do you think, George? Uh, I agree 100%. Punishment denotes uh that I have rendered judgment on whether it was I am the law. Yeah. And that's that's not our business. Right. What do you think, Benning?

SPEAKER_05 32:32

You've been awfully quiet over there.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

No, not thinking about much. Just trying to read these comments too to make sure we're not missing some of these good ones going up there.

SPEAKER_05 32:40

You're you're free to to walk about the cabin, sir. Go ahead and uh I'll let you if you want to get down on some of that. This one, right? Yeah, you're a funny guy. You're funny. He's a funny guy.

SPEAKER_06 32:53

Looks aren't everything.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Right. You know, and and my my old thing with this is we are starting to see a lot more, and I don't know if it's it's the everything that we belong to and everything that's coming in towards us and and kind of what it turns in our searches on our own personal YouTubes now because of all this stuff coming in, and then it goes to YouTube or it goes to whatever real on Instagram or whatever, and of course it's gonna generate generate more. And I know law enforcement is not perfect. Eric and I never came into this thinking law enforcement was perfect. That's one of the reasons we wanted to build the gap between the community and law enforcement itself, because we know there's a problem. There's been a problem for it.

SPEAKER_05 33:28

Bridge it, not build it.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

You want to we want to close the gap, not build the gap. We're trying to bridge it. That's the word that I was looking for. I apologize. Uh yeah. Uh build build a much smaller connecting gap to where everybody kind of understands more, is what banning the retard is trying to say, and I'm not because of my voice. Um anyway, I get sensed up all the time. I know Eric does too. Um, and I know George is is getting more exposed. He's been in law enforcement uh you know longer than Eric and I both. Um and he's been in training. How long have you been in training, George?

SPEAKER_06 34:03

It'll be 15 years in August.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

15. And that's awesome. And I wish I wish we had more people like George and training across this country. And I believe a lot of our folks that are watching would would agree uh the same. And I know Eric has also done a lot of training. I've trained in academies as well. Uh, we've all seen these problems, and we we're not gonna be the people that come in and and just fix it either. Um but we can we can talk about it, we can identify it. We also do know, even though we are we're getting all this stuff sent to us, there are more good law enforcements out there, obviously more than than what we're seeing, what's coming in in our inboxes. And it all does come back to training. Um I've been to classes to where I've had what I what I usually call people that that I think that are that are not learning very well in training. I usually call them recruit schmuccatelli. And that's a Marine Corps thing. Uh going back to recruitment schmuccatelli is not doing well in training. And you you put in a request for them to go through a recycle or maybe go through training again, and that's that's pretty much the best you can do as an instructor. And it's up to the the people at the top of the academy on if they go further or not. And academies are getting better, even in the 21 years that I was in, are getting better to weed out the problem. Is it perfect? No, it's not perfect. But academies I've seen, just in my short time, I've seen academies getting better and better and better. I went to a visit, a certain academy back in November, and when I went in, to my surprise, they were talking about the Constitution. Out of all the things that could have been spoken about, and it was here in Texas, they were talking about the Constitution. So I just stood there in the doorway and listened a little bit because they didn't speak about it much when I came in in 2002. They just did not. It was obviously it was in, it was some of the material was there, but nobody really got up there to speak about it. Um obviously the Fourth Amendment, uh, First Amendment, Second Amendment, that's what most cops will kind of juggle around. But we really got to get more intuitive, we got to get more in depth with it as a country whole, in reference to whoever has a badge on that's out there uh representing for the people.

SPEAKER_05 36:08

Yeah. Um looking at the comments that I think the leadership in the academy staff is so important. A badass sergeant that handles the staff and who's an instructor is huge. I agree. Uh you do have to have you have to have a good training academy, but more importantly, I have to be backed by the upper, the upper shallant. Uh the upper shallot. Uh they have to be backed by the upper uh shallot to um do their job and do the right training and have uh the ability to let their trainers go to training themselves and expand and innovate and innovate, yes. Uh when they come to the table with a new idea, supporting it, figuring out not just shutting it down, but saying, Okay, I like what you're doing. How do I help champion your cause? Right. And they're there to for the figuring it out. Um, Rylan Ryan Lands said, I do understand when citizens get upset when pulled over, but man, I wish citizens would learn to control emotions too. Just act professional and get through it. It's easy to say when we do it every day from the cop perspective. It's easy to get desensitized to taking somebody's freedom because when you pull them over for an offense, you're still taking their freedom. You are seizing their person. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

So it's technically an arrest. It's an arrest you let them.

SPEAKER_05 37:30

It is, yeah, it is very easy for cops to get used to that. It is not easy for a person that has never been in contact with police, it's not easy for a person that has very limited contact with police. Uh, it's just in general, that's why they call them your rights, and all of a sudden your rights are being stripped for a temporary moment, and that could be longer. You never know. We've we've told stories on here before, people that got wrapped up uh way longer than expected. Um, I saw a cool comment. Um uh Brandar86, that's the one I was looking for. He said, When we look at behaviors, if we make excuses and let behavior slide on occasion, the new recruit seeing it could misinterpret it as acceptable, agreed. That's why FTOs are so critical. Yeah, if you have a shitty FTO who's negative and cynical about everything, you're gonna have a 45-year veteran rookie cop. Am I I mean, am I off on that? That's every time you see a FTO that is saltier than shit, cynical about everything, the next thing you know, that rookie that just trained with him for a month, that rookie goes to the next FTO, and you would think he'd been on the department 40 years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Yeah. It drives me insane. Complaining about everything already. That's what these idiots. I used to, I would have a nice little what I call come to Jesus meeting with my with my FTOs. We're getting a little salty around the edges. And I started hearing things on watching videos and stuff like that. We'd have to kind of pull them, pull them aside.

SPEAKER_05 39:03

I'm laughing at Keith Devil. Become a firefighter, problem solved. Uh T Pearson92. Eric, I have some exciting news to share with you about training. Well, share it, brother. No one's stopping you. Go ahead. Um, bearded Tim said, Yeah, but citizens don't have to act professional. That's true. Yeah, uh, that is what is great about having our freedoms. We don't have to be professional. We don't have to, and I will say that it does go a long way when everybody can just keep a civil head.

SPEAKER_06 39:31

So someone mentioned on there, I think it was Mr. Billfold, um, robot cops. Right. So when you get the robot cops, and that's a great idea because cold, calculating, by the book, black and white, no emotion, uh, all of those factors, great. In in concept and in theory, my opinion only, it's great. But there is a human element that would be missing in other duties that cops do other than just traffic enforcement, arrests, yeah, taking people into custody, riot control, all of the all of the violent things that that officers have to deal with. That would be um a kid at the mall who's lost and separated from his parents walking up to the robot, and the robot says, There's no penal code violation here, move along, citizen. Yeah. So you would lose something in that. For as much, for as appealing as it sounds with these kind of problems. And going back to what we're actually talking about here, and and training comes up a lot. One of the things that I was thinking of, and this is this is again just my opinion. I think as a profession, we tend to sometimes have a knee-jerk reaction to something that we see that the public outcries about. So we'll have this public outcry about officers not knowing this or not knowing that, or using too much force, or not being held accountable and violating people's rights, whatever it is. And then what tends to happen that I've seen in in my time is that administration, it's sometimes even even lawmakers will jump in and start dictating how officers have to respond to one thing or another instead of addressing the the the actual the the actual problem and not just nailing down the symptoms. Because you can you can hammer down the symptoms. These cops clearly are not getting enough training on constitutional authority. Yeah. So what do we do every year at our department? We qualify with our guns. We do our CT, we do our taser, not the constitution. We do legislative updates where somebody reads off the PowerPoint and that's it. Okay, incorporate my my idea incorporate some scenario training into authority. Can you can you can you legally detain this person? Is this a civil matter, or does this person have every right to walk away from you? Right. And we do that in some places, our department does, in like patrol procedures, officer survival, those kind of things. But I think we could do better. I think we could way better. We could get that uh incorporated into even our daily CT training. I think instead of just mastering the technique of the armbar takedown, set the technique up to a scenario. Yes, and that's what we've incorporated here recently. That's how we're doing it. That's how they're running CT now. Ah, so what they'll do, what what what I did was I created all these little flashcards with a mini red man scenario. Yeah, and you get the recruits in groups of four. Yeah. So you'll have one officer to uh be the sheet officer, one is the backup, one is playing role playing of the bad guy, and one is an observer. One is a member of the public, once they start to get a little more advanced. He's an auditor, he's pointing his phone, he's interrupting, he's doing whatever. As they get more, um, as they get a little bit more experience with with all of that stuff. And again, part of the training conundrum is that it's not really simply learning a set of skills. Right. You are taking a mindset of whatever that person's character has been for the past, you know, 21, 22, 23, however many years they are alive, and shifting it to something that's totally against um basic human survival instincts.

SPEAKER_08 43:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:32

We we're not programmed at birth to run toward conflict. And yet we want our officers to be okay with that. So we're not programmed at birth to engage in conflict or to force things, and even and that's even supported in society, in in school. Don't hit your fellow classmates. Raise your hand and tell the teacher. We can't raise our hand and tell the sergeant that this guy is doing this, that, or the other.

SPEAKER_04 43:59

Yeah.

Discretion, Equality, And Case Law

SPEAKER_06 44:00

So we're we're doing a fundamental mind shift in academies, and that's where it gets very difficult to focus on things that are crucial, like this, like knowing that authority, because some things get lost in, you know, they fall fall between the the cracks. Yeah. And I think we could do a better job of this that constitutional training because I it goes back again to just education versus training. I I told them about the Fourth Amendment, they took a test on the Fourth Amendment, they passed it, they know the Fourth Amendment. Right. Yeah. Do they do they? Yeah, exactly. What's that thor meme? Do they do they? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:38

And it's the same. We I use this a lot. Um when we leave the academy where we're at, you were practicing just about everything you were trained in every month.

SPEAKER_06 44:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:49

Every month. But you go to you know, BFE department where they've got 20 cops, they're not touching even 90% of what they just learned for years. Yeah. Like they may get, you know, a First Amendment audit training and they'll never face an auditor almost their whole career until it happens. And if you haven't, it's no different than anything else. If you don't use it, you lose it.

SPEAKER_06 45:13

Or if you have um a First Amendment auditor event and it goes poorly and it looks bad.

SPEAKER_05 45:19

Yeah. Right. Um, I I don't want to uh skip over uh what what was his name? Um T Pearson, he just graduated the academy, said he's been watching us for a year. Uh, and he said we've we've been inspiring to him. So I really appreciate it, brother. Um, congrats. Be safe out there, uh, be constitutionally minded. Remember what you swore your oath to. Um, and my best piece of advice that I give people out there is that this is front row tickets to the best show on earth. It's just keep yourself in that headspace that this is this is uh nothing personal, and you'll do you'll do just fine. Um but uh looking at the chats, uh oh, Mike Cucumber dropped two bucks for us. He said, I ate too much hamburger helper elf.

unknown 46:09

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_05 46:10

So weird. Um Jude Ramsey said, but a robo cop doesn't use discretion. That's true.

SPEAKER_06 46:17

It won't give you a break either.

SPEAKER_05 46:19

All right.

SPEAKER_06 46:19

Um I've given more breaks to people that I could have arrested or ticketed in in my time than I have made than made arrests, then made uh violent aggressive arrests.

SPEAKER_05 46:30

Yes, for sure. Yep. Um bearded Tim asks, how many trainees do we have in the chat? That's that is a good question. Um, sorry guys, uh Alan's screening all of the I can't keep up with the chats finally. You guys are getting too many for me, so I'm in the uh the special tagged chats. Uh Andy Fletcher said, we should not have to fear some cop having a bad day, be afraid of what so some sociopath ego maniac might do if we exercise our rights. You're right. You shouldn't, but you also shouldn't have to fear some psycho dude that walks into a church with a gun. You shouldn't have to fear um some homeless person putting a needle in the toilet paper roll at a public bathroom. Like all of these things of stuff you shouldn't fear, but this ain't a perfect world.

SPEAKER_06 47:17

It's because it's full of humans.

SPEAKER_05 47:19

Yeah. If you get rid of the humans, they're fine.

SPEAKER_06 47:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:22

Um, you're right. You shouldn't have to fear that, but you should also have a realistic expectation that humans are gonna fail.

SPEAKER_06 47:31

And it it goes the other way as well. A cop shouldn't have to be afraid for his life on a traffic stop. Hey, I'm pulling you over to let you know you're you you forgot a turn signal, right? But you're willing to shoot me before you even find out, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:44

Yeah, I had to do that.

SPEAKER_06 47:45

I shouldn't, I shouldn't have to be, I shouldn't have to be so culturally ingrained to that possibility, yeah. And I have to guide my training towards that possibility.

SPEAKER_05 47:55

Right. I I I agree. Um that's a good one, Mr. Bill Fold. So Mr. Billfold said you can hire humans to get out of here and help little old ladies cross the street, but human police have proven that they cannot police their own or police constitutionally.

SPEAKER_06 48:10

So I'd like to say something about that. Okay, so that one there. Um I you have never interacted with me other than this, Mr. Billfold. So you can't say that human police have proven. That's a very broad statement. That's that's all inclusive, that's every cop, everywhere, all the time, every time. And that is simply not true. And that that lends to the problems of having the good open communication on actually solving the problem because it becomes an emotional uh Yeah, it's a polarizing comment. It's a polarizing comment, but it's also it's valid. It's valid to be angry. So again, like Aristotle, it's valid. You have a point. You are right. You are right. We have to do better, it has to get better, and and some of it has to do with training, some of it has to do with other things, but being mad about it and just being mad about it and blanketing everybody with it doesn't move anyone towards any kind of solution. Yeah. So what I was really wanting to address was uh with that comment, is we are taking steps and seeing for as much as the profession doesn't like officers being held accountable, which is true, we don't we don't like that we're getting in trouble for for these things when 20 years ago it was common practice or whatever. Um that's what has to be done. Somebody I read one of the comments in passing and I didn't get a chance to address it, but it was um how do I feel about addressing it in front of the recruits? So correction and criticism are two different things. So I can, as a trainer, I can criticize and belittle a recruit or a trainee and make them feel like crap. Or I can correct the behavior and encourage that person to work better. I think that's the balance we need to find with correcting bad behavior and cops that are out there. And I think we need to get to the source of what it is. It seems like the pattern that I've seen is that they just don't know the constitution as well as they need to. Yeah, and and then when they're fronted with that, they get emotional. And then once they're emotional, all bets are off. Ego takes over.

SPEAKER_05 50:28

Right.

SPEAKER_06 50:28

Yep. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:30

Constitution, it it's crazy to me just how and it's not that I don't think that they don't know the constitution. I think they know it, they understand it. But when one, when they get pushed, they they can't they can't recite it. And then I think the part that they really don't know is the practical application of what they're reading to practicing it in the field. That's the difference between education and training, yes. And I it's something that I've been trying to help the the audience understand is these guys are passing constitutional tests, I promise you, on that. They they're passing some constitutional tests. They have to, but that doesn't mean you know it. And that's where we're really screwing the pooch, I think, in training. Um, Mike Cucumber said, Does officer discretion violate equal protections? Um I I think I think discretion and equal being equal are different things. Like, I don't know another way to say, like, are you saying if I let you off for going 55 over, but this person I give a ticket for going 55 over? There's there's there's different factors that every cop uses. That's why it's called discretion. We can't account for everything, and there's no way to to balance any two scenarios the same way. Benny, what do you got on that?

SPEAKER_00 52:02

We we have to be able to have that discretion. Uh, you know, even on every traffic stop that we do. Um, you know, I was taught in the very beginning, and y'all correct me if if y'all were or or not in training, but my FTOs used to tell me before you hit on the once you have the violation that you have in front of you in the state of Texas, you know you're gonna stop this person. You need to have decided in your mind if you're gonna write them a ticket or not. And I solely, I I disagree with that 100% because I like I treat everything as a case-by-case basis. I don't know how many times I've stopped somebody for 10 to 15 over, and you get up there, and that person today has gone through life. They've just left the hospital, maybe a loved one just passed away, and that's where that discretion really uh comes into play. There's only some shallow things on what's called Class C violations in the state of Texas that you don't have discretion on. And and that having that discretion, I believe, leaves the humanistic portion of law enforcement. Um, just like George, just like Eric, I know Eric's not a big citation writer either. I loved having that discretion and giving somebody a warning. You're not giving them a pass on life, but sometimes life beats somebody, and you can detect that when you come up to the window. And being able to have that discretion is paramount in my in my opinion.

SPEAKER_05 53:29

I think equality and fairness are two different things, too. I I've used to tell my troops in patrol, like, if you want me to do if you want fairness, like, you're not gonna like fair. Right. You're not gonna like fair. Yeah, if you want me to do what's fair for the unit, you're not gonna fucking like that. So figure out your guys' drama together, or I will do what's fair, and everybody's gonna be miserable. Because fairness is gonna mean rotation of calls, fairness is gonna be, and what I mean like by that in patrol is you'll get some guys that are just call shagging fools. They'll take call after call after call. Um, but then you get towards the end of the night, and there's a call right before you're supposed to get off. And those guys that have been shagging calls all night, they're looking, they're like, I'm not fucking doing it. I've been taking calls all night. Yeah, and you'll look at somebody that took one call and they're like, Well, I'm not doing it, I just took the last call. Like, really? Yeah, is that how we're gonna play this game? Yeah, okay. You want fair? Yeah, we'll do fair because I'm gonna uh start dictating who does what when. Like, you don't want that type of life. But um, looking at the super chat, Brandar, appreciate you, brother. You dropped five bucks. Said um, when an offers officer is found to violate policy, are they required to provide training of the policy they failed in their shift to their shift? Um a lot of times, yes. More I would say almost every time, yes, unless it's something like sensitive in nature, you know, um, like a sexual harassment thing. Um, so um, let me see. Okay, I was speeding. Uh I had an officer crying for help. I sped to the scene, I was running code, I went too fast for conditions, um, and I went over a curb and I bent my rim. I was out of it. This was real early in my career. And so I had to not only go through remedial training for driving, um, I had to give roll call brief for the next month on every general order that you can think of for driving, driving in a pursuit, and do just everything, what you have to do to check your vehicle out. And I had to do that in front of everybody. That's what the sergeant made me do.

SPEAKER_06 55:51

Yeah. I didn't have to do anything like that, but I had a I had a car accident early on as well. And I was running code, lights and siren, clear, quiet street, everything's dry, it's well lit. It's like two in the morning. But there's an officer on the on the radio screaming she's being chased around the house on a domestic by a kid with a knife. So I'm blowing doors. Right. And cross traffic is supposed to stop at a stop sign, and I can see them, lights and siren. Again, we're I'm blowing doors. I'm going pretty fast. And they start creeping into the intersection. Uh so I I change lanes, and I'm thinking, as long as that guy keeps moving, I'm good. I'm gonna miss him. But he stops. So when he stops, I yank the wheel to try and out drive the car and not hit him because all I see is these big pie plate eyes. Because it was the choice was T-bone him or try to get around him.

SPEAKER_05 56:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 56:46

And uh that that car, I never hit the brakes, it just yawed 200 feet into a house. Damn. And I parked in in somebody's uh bedroom. You drove in the house?

SPEAKER_05 56:58

Yeah, oh shit.

SPEAKER_06 57:00

I I cracked my eye socket and um I got I got pretty banged up. No airbag, none of that stuff happened, none of it. I mean, just I got I got beat up by that car. Damn.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

And I got a Were you in a were you in a bubble back Cabrice?

SPEAKER_06 57:12

Oh, it was the Crown Vic. Oh yeah, Crown Vic. But OG. Um at any rate, they looked at that and they said, You were over the speed. Yeah, so you get to three days suspension. Nope, you know, yeah. And I was like, okay, I'm happy with that.

SPEAKER_05 57:27

A three-day suspension for crashing into somebody's house. Yeah, that was back in the 70s. 1870s. 1870s, yeah. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

Uh it sounds like nobody was hurt, and that's that's the big thing there, but there's still so much to learn from that. How fast can we safely how fast can we safely go somewhere without hurting somebody else? And we're all guilty of it. And if there's any cop that told you that they haven't done that, they're fucking lying through the teeth.

Phones, Auditors, And Distance

SPEAKER_05 57:56

Uh, let's address this comment because this is ridiculous. We are more likely to have a bad interaction with a cop than a victim of to a violent crime. No, you're not.

SPEAKER_06 58:05

How many interactions with cops are you having?

SPEAKER_05 58:07

I know. I was gonna say uh most people they're lucky to have one or two interactions with a cop their whole life. Yeah. Um of an enforcement matter, even. Right. You know, um, we're not even talking about just passing by at a sporting event or in the airport, but yeah, I I don't buy that at all. Uh 350 million calls for service a year. That would be it would be just rampantly outrageous, uh, and I know it's not. So I don't agree with you on that one, sir. Um but the majority of people, wait, but majority of people don't shoot cops, but cops are still fearful of it.

SPEAKER_06 58:45

Um cops don't shoot people.

SPEAKER_05 58:47

Yeah, the majority of cops don't shoot people. Um, but yeah, of course we're fearful of it. We have training that puts us in that mindset of always expecting the worst so we can be ahead of the curve when shit happens because we're always behind the curve when when bad stuff happens.

SPEAKER_06 59:05

I'll I'll say this um more cops are shot than firefighters, right? So there's a reason we have to be mindful of that possibility.

SPEAKER_05 59:16

Yeah, yeah, that's uh that's very true. And then when you consider look at military posturing, how many countries are invading the United States? Yeah, how many countries are invading the United States? I don't see you getting into your military for spending the you know world's budget by 10 times about posturing for world defense when we haven't been attacked since Japan.

SPEAKER_06 59:42

Yeah. So again, that that kind of goes to what I was talking about at the very beginning is that what we're we're we're starting to feel, at least I am, like we're having to defend our profession. And it it shouldn't be that. Okay, I'm trying to catch myself here, I'm trying to practice what I preach and recognize that I'm having an emotional response here.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:02

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:03

Um, I love being a cop. I love being a servant.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:08

I've always wanted to be fair though, you haven't been a cop in 15 years.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:13

I work a part-time. Vanny choked on his drink there. I work a part-time every Friday night in a district you're very familiar with. You do. So you know I'm you know I'm keeping the skills sharp. Yeah. At any rate, um, I don't think it's helpful for us to feel like we have to defend. I'm okay with you saying, hey, look, you're screwing this up. How do you how do you unscrew this? Right. And that's what that's what I'm trying to get to. If the answer is training, that's probably the easiest solution because we incorporate new training. We develop new training, we implement it, and we start testing it and evaluating it and see what works and what doesn't, and yeah, we move forward. But if it's something cultural, that's something that's gonna be harder to address because that's that's yeah, intangible. Yeah. And then another thing that, you know, my wheel started turning when I saw some of these videos. I started thinking, what generations of people do we have out there in policing these days? So I did a little research, and right now, Gen X, my generation, and um on their way out, and the boomers, yeah, we're we're close to retirement. We're on our way out. Yeah, so that's a lot of experience that's going away. So millennials and then Gen Zers are are filling the ranks pretty quickly. And just being at the training academy, I see those recruits, they look like babies coming in. I know. They look like little kids.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:35

I know.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:36

And and a lot of them are coming in with very little real-world experience. And then I started thinking of, well, generationally, what is Gen X known for? What are the boomers known for? What are the what is the millennials and the drinking from the hose? All of those things, and that might be part of it. I mean, there was a very big focus for the millennial generation to be emotionally healthy, a solid, good self-esteem. You need to know that you're loved, and I'm gonna be that kind, and I'm you know, my girls, they have no doubt at all that daddy loves them, and you know, whatever whatever that needs to whatever that needs to be done to to prove that to them. Yeah, they I have no problem with that.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:21

I was constantly chasing your approval, even on the treadmill, and you hated me. You're not my daughter, though.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:27

So and you know, we still I still haven't gotten to that approval for you.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:31

I don't know what to say. Yeah, uh, give you guys a little um insight on my shenanigans when I was an instructor with George. Um I liked to make George feel uncomfortable all the time because George is a gin.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:45

Very good.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:47

And George doesn't like he doesn't like hugs. George doesn't like to be told that he's doing a really good job. George doesn't like anything positive towards him, George. Don't like to run tandem on a treadmill that's built for one person.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:58

So and Eric is very lucky. Eric is very fortunate that he's fast that George is getting older and his reactions are slower. But all that to say that that might be a component of what we need to look at as well. I mean, do we need to look at some emotional intelligence training for younger officers? Does it need to become part of the backgrounds process? Do we need to move away from just your standard issue uh psychological exam where okay, this guy's a sociopath and this guy's not, to this guy's show some narcissistic tendencies, or this person has never dealt with conflict, or this person has trauma in their life, or all of those things that they're gonna factor into potential emotional responses that could lead to these kind of problems.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:42

Brandon, I'm gonna get to your question in a second. I want to add a little bit more to George's thought here. And one of the things that I think we're not considering, too, that I've seen, I have talked to officers, young officers, and they're telling me that yeah, I'm gonna do this for like five, seven years, and then I'm gonna move on. I'm gonna be a lawyer, or I'm gonna go do this, I'm gonna go do that. I'm like, what in the fu what? Yeah. People are not doing this job to do it as a career, they're doing it as a stepping stone to what the fuck ever. Yeah, I've never even had that mindset in my life. I'm looking for a career.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

Yes, and and we've spoken about this at length on our show. It's it's me personally, even working in small agencies. I've seen just in the past five years, I've seen over 10 people complete training, get out of training, go through ghosts, and be there for about six months and get one good stern talking to by uh by an NCO or a friggin' supervisor, and they're done. They're willing to throw the badge down. They're like, you're not gonna talk to me like that. And they they can just throw all that training that the police department that put into them, that they put in individually, um, on everything that they've done to go towards another career. And I just boggles my mind to to every day to see that type of stuff. How how can you just do that? How about you fight for what you pushed so much for? How about you stick it out and try to make the profession better uh and your and your small power of what you have as an officer instead of just throwing in the flag? I mean, what's the big blame? Is it is it is it this? Is it because we've learned how we've lost how to to have communication uh face to face? Uh these kids now are used to just a text. Yeah, yeah uh what what where's the problem? I think the phone is a big problem. I think the the smart devices are a huge problem for our kids growing up. They're the whole answer is right there in front of their face, and they've lost the communication and the heart on a lot of things. And you try to reintroduce that in the academy and you start seeing some hurdles. You start seeing with these young guys and young gals coming through, it's major hurdles because of upbringing, school, whatever. I mean, you can lay a thousand different things in there, but I think the phone is, you know, I'm not gonna blame anything, but I think that's part of the problem, is that we've referred to that phone for almost everything.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:02

I want to give a shout out over on Instagram to DickBeaterMemes2. It's me, it's my handle. Uh that's what he said on Instagram. Uh, I just had to call out his name because it's hilarious. Um, but okay, I'll get to Brandar's comment. He said, uh, there is a difference between being prepared for a threat versus treating everyone like a threat. Agreed. You don't have to treat people like they're a threat, but you as a citizen can't get upset when you overstep a line that we have been trained to keep. So in that, when you want to come put your phone directly in my face, you've encroached into a bubble that I've been trained to keep. So it's not that we're treating you like a threat. You have violated a parameter that we have been trained. So again, if it's something that the majority of the public doesn't care for, then maybe we have to start looking at training.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:01

Well, it may also be that you are starting to look like a threat. And that's why we're looking at you like a threat.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:08

And I know that I know personally that we do some very specific training in patrol procedures and officer survival that's geared towards conditioning and teaching and actual putting into practice officers and recruits being able to focus on their task at hand that they were dispatched on and not engaging with like a crowd of people or someone with a phone who's recording because they they they are a potential, but they are not an actual. That's not what you're here for. You're not here for the guy who's recording you, you're here for the guy who's using a stolen credit card. Okay. And and we do that kind of specific training. So the the point of that is that if I have, let's play it out this way. If I have that scenario, and the scenario is very strict on the role player's guidelines. Role player, you're gonna be the first amendment auditor, you're gonna be the bad guy, you've got a knife in your pocket and you've used a stolen credit card, and there's a crowd of people just making noise, yelling and screaming. That's basically that scenario. So if you as the officer go into that and you start dealing with that and you recognize that the First Amendment auditor is nothing, auditor is nothing more than an auditor, and he's keeping things fine, and you address it and you say, stay back there and record, do everything that you want to do, just do it from back there for me, please. And they do it, a good role player does that. That officer no longer needs to engage with that. But if my role player, even in a scenario training environment, breaches that and starts continuing going past that line, that officer's been trained to have to shift focus and address that because now that's gone from just being something that could be a threat to something that is becoming a threat. Right. And we we have to walk that line and we have to be able to make those decisions in hundreds of seconds because we live or die in hundredths of a second. Yeah, once I I have to gauge on you whether or not you're the potential threat with the gun or not in hundredths of a second.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:55

Yeah. Yep. Um, Ryan uh Land said, Are you worried that AI videos like Rage Bait are going to make things worse? Yeah, yeah. We've already seen videos where almost got me. I'm watching, I'm like, holy shit, why did that cop do that? And I'm then I really start to pay attention. I'm like, oh, this is fucking AI. AI almost got me. So yeah, I do think they're gonna.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:18

Well, there was an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie before the turn of the century called The Running Man, and that was how they convicted him. They did some some selective editing to some some footage, and there was an outcry, and they took him in.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:30

Yeah. Uh Mike said, Eric, can I do a ride along with you? I will crank some NWA in the hood. Hell yeah, brother. I'm down. Um I don't have a patrol car, so I'd have to acquire one. But yeah, for sure. If you, I mean, if you legitimately rode along with me, you'd be in an office all day, uh, which is boring. But no. Uh yeah, going through that. Brandar said, Um, oh, we already read that one. Yeah. And again, Brandar, thanks for the for the super chat, brother. Appreciate you. Um Lane Storm said, would you guys consider a fireman running into a burning building the same as a cop tackling a man with a gun, not shooting him? Um, I would consider a person running into a burning building a psycho.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:18

Uh well, I can't I can't say that because there have time there have been several times out on patroller I've run into burning buildings. Happy yes, because there were people inside and FD's not on scene yet.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:29

I never got that opportunity. Yeah, they were still I I several I tried to help several times on car fires that were too engulfed. I just I mean, you I don't know, I have heard stories of people that have forced their way into intense fires. I've never felt anything as intense as a car fire. I've been around house fires, yeah. But the intensity of a car fire is that's it's weird.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:56

Yeah. And you know, it's it's a whole different way to get into that car than you could getting into a house. But all of that notwithstanding, I don't think that's a fair comparison because the fire that the fireman is facing doesn't have intent. The fire is just doing what fire does. Yeah. And fire is going to obey the laws of physics and it's going to go in one direction or another, or it's contained, or it's not contained, or there's water on it, or there's not. There's several different factors. Tackling a man with a gun, that there's there's too many variables with the direction that that muzzle can go and the bullet that can come out and where it can go. And let's say I tackle him and he doesn't shoot me, but in the process of the tackle, the gun fires and he goes into some little kid's bedroom. Was it worth it for me to save that guy's life by tackling him instead of shooting him? Is it okay for me to sacrifice that kid's life with that bullet variable?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:49

Because the next thing the public's gonna say is why didn't you shoot him? Why didn't you stop him? Yeah. Because you didn't ask, now this kid's dead.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:56

Yeah, yeah. So that that's the best way I could I could address that comparison.

Drones, Bodycams, And Axon Tech

SPEAKER_05 1:11:59

Yeah. No, that's a fun question, though. I like that question. That was fun. Um Craig Holcomb. That's because Eric knows it's hard to write a ticket with an Air Force crayon. Um, sir. Sir, we have the finest of inks. We don't uh we have ink sticks. We get the crayon. And we don't write tickets, they're printed off. We get crayons in our MREs. Yes, you do. Um, which your MREs are what? Rocks?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:23

You know, we sand. We went into this this phone thing pretty hard, and I hope it's not when I held mine up when I said this is a problem. It's not talking about people recording, it's the problem of people using their phone, the data, Google searching, etc. etc. is what I was referring to uh that has come back to communications. So I don't want people I'm reading some of these comments, and I'm uh I I think people may have misunderstood what I had said.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:49

Oh, they they didn't get it. You meant like just having your face buried in the phone all the time and not interacting with people. That's not what I picked up what you were putting down, but I could see the confusion. Um super chat. Uh officer walks up to phone, says it's in his face. Yeah, that's true. That's that's yeah, again, you get magnetized to to stuff, and that's a fair statement.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:15

It is, and that's something that we've incorporated in our department to try and counter as far as training goes. And uh, I address it when would when we get into the knife, when to the edged weapon. Yeah, fade the blade. I remember that from George. Right. So, what do we what do we do when we we recognize the lethal threat of an edged weapon? We draw our gun and we get right into it, and we go right into them yelling, drop the knife, drop the knife, drop the knife. Yeah, so you get magnetized to the danger. And I think that's what it is, is that a uh threat perception. And again, this isn't this isn't condoning that behavior, it is incorrect behavior. An officer should not walk up to someone who's recording because they're recording that and then say, You have that phone in my face. They're the ones that close the distance. And I get that. And and just um if it makes you feel any better, that is being addressed in our our department. It has been for several years. Um since I've been up there in training. So for the last 15 now, yeah. I say, what's more important sometimes? Don't get shot or stop that threat. Sometimes the more important thing is to not get shot. Don't put yourself in the situation where you have to address it as a threat if it hasn't become a threat yet. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:22

Fair enough. Um, just did striking in the academy. A lot of people got his in the mouth for the first time in their life today. Yeah. Yeah, that's the whole point. That's one of the points of it is learning how to take a hit, learning that you can get hit. Um, George Lopez made fun of my big head in the academy. Absolutely love the man. Thank you, Lopez, for kicking my ass and making me chase the gator like a damn uh berserker, Lopez, for president. Yeah. Um, to be fair, I know Mace, and uh you do have a big ass head, brother. Sorry. He wears like a size nine cowboy hat. So uh let me see, get rid of some of these comments we've already read. Uh Perry Lemmley said most of the kids going to the academy don't know what it is to take a punch, let alone get their ass chewed out. Yeah, that's true. You can't really chew their ass anymore, can you, George?

SPEAKER_06 1:15:29

I'm you're not really an ass chewer. You know what? I can if it's egregious enough. Yeah. And and if I really care about that person. I mean, I I'm I'm not gonna emotionally invest to the point where I'm ass chewing. Right. If I if I don't legitimately care about that person.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:47

Um, so when I when I do chew an ass, it's because I care about you and you did something really wrong.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:53

Yeah, it's that father disappointment thing. That's probably it. Yeah, yeah. Mr. Bill Fold said, I've never seen an auditor shove a camera in a cop's face, and I have seen thousands and thousands of videos, and I've seen cops approach a cameraman and then claim it was shoved in the face. Yeah, you're you're preaching to the choir because that's one of the things that we get pissed off about. On this, it is single-handedly probably the most common thing that has dropped my opinion that cops 99.9% of cops are always out there doing the right thing. So I have a theory on that.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:25

And it's a training theory. Why why do we do what we do? Okay, it's clear, you're absolutely right. You're we we do close distance with people who could potentially become a threat when they're not initially a threat. Why do we do that? That's all we need to get to. I think, my opinion, just from what I've seen, I think that when we do this foundational mindset switch between civilian to law enforcement officer, we ingrain in people to meet conflict where it is. You go and solve that problem. You're the problem solver, you're the guy, you're the gal, you're the person with the authority. It's your job to make fast, decisive, correct decisions in the interest of the public, the community that you're serving. Yeah. So you you have to do something. So the minute you detect that something is outside of your control, you've been trained, I would dare say indoctrinated in a mind in a mindset way that's deeper than just any conscious thought to go and address it. Right. And I think we do that in front in with cars. We have this idea in front of vehicles. We get in front of cars because if you were on foot and I needed to stop you from leaving, what would I do? I'd step in front of you. If you were if you get in your car and you start to leave, how am I gonna stop that car? I'm gonna believe in the authority of my badge and my uniform and think that you're gonna be a reasonable person and stop when I put myself in front of your car. Which is dumb. That's why we do that. Don't do that. Why do I read why do we reach into cars when the person is passed out in the McDonald's drive-thru to try and put her in? We we know what's gonna happen. He's gonna wake up right when you're in his face and he's gonna punch it, and you're gonna be getting dragged along and you're gonna have to do something.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:06

That's why you do the front to back, maybe block a mirror. Yeah, yeah. So positive pressure.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:12

So I'm I'm with you, Mr. Billfold. Yeah, but the the real question is what can we do to keep that from happening?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:19

Well, how do we train to prevent those kinds of things?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:22

Yeah, and I think it's one of those things that experience is probably the better trainer it is, but do we have time to provide all that experience?

SPEAKER_06 1:18:30

Yeah, especially when all your Gen Xers and boomers are retired.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:34

Yep. I think the first thing that should be issued, uh, that every cop in America should do is have to watch our show every week. I think that's gonna make them, I think that's gonna make them better in a whole well.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:47

We'll find out. We got some uh we got some people that apparently have been watching us for a while now joining academies and whatnot. Um, I like this one here. Uh Lane Stormont said, until judges, prosecutors, and lawyers in general change their behavior and start treating everybody the same and being consistent in the way things are dealt with, nothing will change. Um I again, the hard part when it comes to making a judgment, when it comes to prosecuting a case, when it comes to accepting a case, no two things are ever the same. You could have two robbery cases where one guy robbed a 7-Eleven on the corner first in Maine on five days ago, and then you get two days later, another guy robbed the same 7-Eleven on the corner first in Maine, and those cases are gonna be completely different, and the factors are gonna be completely different. There's you know, the guy that um did it the first day, you're gonna find out it's the first time he's ever robbed anything, it's the first crime he's ever committed, and he's gonna get a judgment. Might be really light. Who knows? Maybe he tried to rob it with a bit uh a banana, and then the next guy, he's a hardened criminal, and he's robbed a million places a bunch of times, and this is the final straw, and he gets life, and you're like, What the fuck? They both did the same thing. Well, you can't judge them both the same, so it just depends. But I'm with you. I I really wish the way to start fixing the judges and and stuff like that is uh body cameras. I think that they should have to show what they're doing as well.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:23

I I think also we can take a step further and go back to the lawmakers. I mean, if it's not a law, we can't enforce it. So the minute you make something a law that's on the books, you give people like us authority to enforce it. So if you think a law is unjust, go to the source and you know who right? Who makes who makes the laws that we are tasked with enforcing? Who makes the laws that judges are you know tasked with determining? So you're so your your problem is inherently, the more we dig into it, the problem is inherently bigger than just yeah, asshole cops.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:02

For sure. Yeah, but we're the face of it, so we get the brunt of it.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:06

That's okay. Uh I'm I'm used to getting punched in the face.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:09

May said he still caught that goddamn gear, by the way. Um, somebody dropped Dan dropped uh super chat for us. Appreciate you, brother. Thank you very much. All that those proceeds go directly into the show, guys. They promise you. Uh they don't go to my Bentley out in the driveway.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:28

That was your Bentley?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:29

That was my Bentley, yeah. Yeah, I get that from the Facebook money. Just kidding, guys.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:34

A lot more chrome than I can appreciate, though. If that's your thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:38

Can we please institute crayons?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:41

Hey, what's that last comment on there from my cucumber? I'm just trying to. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:45

I'm I'm not watching general chat, I'm only watching the ones that Alan sends over to the starred comments. Um that one there. Uh allow recordings in the courtroom, banning it is unconstitutional. I I'm with you. That's what I said. They should be recording this stuff. Um, and and just like in police videos, redact the information that doesn't need to be shared. Yeah. I mean, we've gotten into um we have gotten into this topic before on body cameras. I don't think body cameras should be allowed to be muted at all. I I think that record everything and then you have a redaction team. This is the this is the painstake of having a body cam. You guys wanted us to have a body cam. I'm with you. I feel naked without one. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:33

We need it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:35

Glad we have body cameras. Correct. However, if we are going to push for something that we think is very good for law enforcement, we have to accept the shit side of it. Shit side of it is you're gonna have to hire more people or something to do the redaction parts because there's stuff that you just can't have people's private information. Things like that. Um, sensitive things, you know. There's times you go into a house and there's you know little kids running around and just in nothing, and having they've been in their own filth for the last you know four weeks, and like there's shit that you see that you can't have on camera. So a redaction team, AI is right around the corner, by the way, where redaction is gonna be super simple. It's gonna it's gonna redact it on the fly. So um it's right there. So cops just hold your horses. Things are things things are coming.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:25

Um sorry. So uh you you mentioned AI, and just real quick, I noticed one of the questions several minutes back was about um if only cops had access to finding out the constitutionality or the penal code laws or whatever, and that's that's in the works. That's we're making it as dummy-proof as possible. Axon already has those algorithms put into some of their cameras. The body cameras, yeah. So for translation purposes, and I didn't know about the redaction stuff, but yeah, that the technology is gonna really go a long way towards yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:59

So I just got back from the summit, guys. Um and one of the things the body camera is going to be able to do is you will be able to indoctrinate your department's policies, general orders, um, state law, and you're gonna be able to ask it clarifying questions. Like, hey, this is what I've got. Give it what you got, and it's going to tell you, all right, well, this is what your general order state, this is what the law states. Yeah. So, and that's all gonna be recorded. So now you're going to get trained more often because the AI is instructing you. Meanwhile, it's not you doing the research where you're getting tied up doing all that stuff. You can just hands free, you know, tell the camera what it is you're looking for. And now you got a record of where your mind was at, yeah, what you were thinking of and tracking through, and it's gonna help you improve. Yeah, so policing is getting better. There's a lot of cool ass shit coming down the pipe. Um, Axon, I'm very, very impressed with how much they understand the need to improve the profession, not just for the cops, but for everybody. Yeah, like it was really impressive. It was really eye-opening how much they're looking out for everybody. That's what I was really impressed with. And they're not a sponsor, guys, by any means. They're not a sponsor. So um don't think I'm just kissing ass. Uh, I I was very impressed. I was very, very impressed. Uh it was cool.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:21

I got to go to ExxonWink this year, too.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:23

Oh, did you? Yeah. Oh, nice. Hell yeah.

unknown 1:25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:26

And somebody's mentioning drones. Um drones are the wave of the future as well. Yeah, drones are my drones, AI, and virtual reality.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:33

I'm in I'm in the drone mode right now, guys. I'm doing uh helping out with creating a DFR program, drone first responder program. Drones are going to change the game even more. Um see that one from just a bearded Tim.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:45

Where is it at? Uh right there.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:47

There we go. Uh okay. Uh, this is from Tim. He said the big question everyone has asked and commented at one time. Another top cop guest, how many cops has George arrested? Oh, yeah, that is.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:58

I have I have never had to arrest a cop, but I have cited some.

unknown 1:26:04

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:05

I've worked, you know, my only patrol experience was um rural Illinois, and the tickets I wrote there for were for driving the harvester in town on city, on on village, on village roadways.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:20

That's that's that's banning style policing right there.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:23

And um, but I've I've cited several, yeah. But my only other patrol experience is east side midnights. So rocking and rolling and shagging calls and shootings, fights, stabbings, all of those things. I didn't really have a whole lot of time to um go hunting for DWIs.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:40

Yeah, I didn't run into cops over there or anything like that. Yeah. I I've arrested four. Um and uh I'm in the process right now of hunting one.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:49

So now I have been asked to I have been approached about testimony as far as use of force stuff, and I've I've been asked by both defense and prosecution side. So it it hasn't happened yet, but with use of force, um there have been times I've had to give the no, he's screwed up. Yeah, that's testified against the cop, yeah. Yeah, but if if you put me on the stand, this is what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is what it is. Uh, I don't know if Dan dropped more super chats or if this is the original one. Dan, uh, I'm just gonna say thank you again. Um, we appreciate that, brother. Um, and then uh I want to get to Ryan's question here. I didn't I was looking for the drone. Are your departments using drones and in what capacity? Any future uses you see happening? So, okay, now you guys are gonna get dog off leash because this is my bag, baby. Um, so I actually got to talk to the owner of Sky Dio. His name's Adam. I just cannot remember his last name. Uh, micro drones are coming. So basically, drones that can be launched from the body of the officer. So imagine you get out to the car, you make contact on a traffic stop, the car decides to run. Drone can be launched, go off. Uh, it can follow the car because the micro drones are super fast. I don't know if you've seen them go like they can keep up with uh F1 cars.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:05

Wow.

Florida 25‑Foot Laws & Scenes

SPEAKER_05 1:28:06

Um, so they can do that. I suggested the idea of having them magnetized to a vehicle so they could just land on the car. So hopefully, if that happens, remember your boy just said it out loud. So that's my idea. I want I want to cut back Skyo. Um, and then uh so the micro drones thing, um, fixed-wing drones that can stay up in the air for hours versus 20, 40 minutes, like what they currently are. Drones that can haul um loads of whatever um medical supplies or uh one that I saw was a uh river rescue where they dropped uh flotation device down to them. Um they've got drones that are putting out fires, brush fires before they can start a wildfire. Uh drones that go out and spot fires. Um that's another thing that they're doing with them. Uh drones that protect schools, drones that can shoot tasers, drones um that can shoot uh the Bola wrap system.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:04

Well, they're gonna have to modify the tasers.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:06

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_06 1:29:07

The tasers.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:08

And we're just we're just talking about some of the law enforcement applications on that. I mean, you wouldn't believe what the power companies are using these drones for, checking lines, X-ray and lines. What you know, back in 2002, there was a lot of jobs here in North Texas for people with commercial pilots that had what's called a Cessna 172 or commercial pilots license, and they could attach a X-ray to the left wing and ride on these high power lines for miles and miles and get that data back to Encore or whatever power country or uh company that's employed you to do it. Now you take that cost away when you get drones to do it. Is it eliminating jobs? Yes, but is it creating more? Absolutely. I mean, what the technology on these drones is blows your mind on what they can do now.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:47

What were you saying about tasers and drones?

SPEAKER_06 1:29:49

The tasers still considered a firearm. And you can't attach a firearm to the drone. So in the stage, so what I was that that was that was one of the things they were talking about at Axon Week this year. Yes. Was they're trying to get a workaround for that.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:03

I think they found it.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:05

Very good.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:06

So yeah, I think they found it. Um what Alan? It is still in court. Um, it is coming. Uh, there's a big fight with Axon, but the thing I was gonna mention, there's some comments being made. Um, I've been pretty close to Axon this year, and everybody needs to understand that the owner of Axon, his whole intent was to bring tasers to the environment of law enforcement to do away with guns. Yeah, everything in his mentality and mindset is de-escalation and to eliminate gun deaths. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:41

He wanted to end gun deaths. Yep, that's his move.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:43

Everything he's putting in motion is to keep law enforcement accountable and to support what we do. So I I'm very pleased with his direction. So that's all, and then as far as the firearm part of the new taser, it is supposed to be seen in legislation in the next quarter. So we will uh stay tuned to that message. Yeah, but they are actually shooting the taser currently in other countries off of drones.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:14

Yeah, yep, I know.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:16

Well, they're dropping grenades off of drones, and yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:20

Um, to make to make sure you're good. So I think society relies too much on police. Honestly, what a cop can do, I can do myself. Only problem is I would get arrested for doing things cops do every day. I will say that there are there are too many things that cops are responsible for going to.

unknown 1:31:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:39

I think we one, we've got too many laws, and two, we've got too many things that cops are responsible for going to. And that is oftentimes it's the call that you're like, why was a cop even out here? That's the ones we get in trouble on because we had no business being out there. So I'm with you. I think that's a good that's a good statement. Um, let me keep going here. Uh, let me get that out of here. No crayons. Da da da da da da. We already did the drones question. Uh, allowing recording in the yeah, we already covered that one. Um Brandar said, a member for 11 months, Baker's Dungeon message. What are your thoughts on 25-foot law in Florida now? Stupid. Why would you put a defined number on there for one? Wait, you cannot put a hardened number on a situation because everything's different.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:34

What is this referring to?

SPEAKER_05 1:32:36

It's the um the uh the Halo law. So if you're filming me and I tell you to get back, you have to get 25 feet back. That's the that that's the law. Now, how we have it in Texas, it's uh where we like it has to be reasonable, right? But it's uh whatever marker, we have to we have to be specific with a static item. Hey, I need you to get back to the curb line. Right. And point to it and tell them and show them, hey, I need you to get back to the curb line. Please don't go past curb line um until my investigation is done.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:11

And by the way, that's how we train the recruits too. We we specifically use that type of scenario to train that specific authority, right? Yeah, yeah. So I don't like it.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:22

In Texas, we we don't go by a specific number because the the scene may be. This is another thing that is a very bad misconception, is that we have to have crime tape on for it to be a crime scene or or an investigative scene or whatever it is. That's not true, guys. It's it's whatever we figure out that it is at the time. Now that can always be shrunk, but we always tell cops to overestimate what your crime scene is because inevitably you're gonna get it wrong.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:52

So evidence collection is one of the main things on there from shells to DNA. There's so much that people don't understand on that. It's not being a jerk, being an ass saying you have to get back here. Is there cops out there like that? Yes. But when you're trying to do evidence saving and you want to freaking cast that line out, it's so the bad person on whatever occurred here can truly, you know, when when they when they go to print, there's a reason why we do everything that we do. We want to we want to preserve everything so when that goes to trial. Period.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:23

And I think one of the good arguments, or one of the arguments that people will make, is like, you know, when you're filming a traffic stop, like that's fine. I obviously I don't want you right behind me. You can't be right up on me while, well, I'm on a public sidewalk. Well, no, because now I gotta have divided attention and all that stuff. It is an officer safety issue. How do we know it's an officer safety issue? One of my favorite videos is where the cops on a traffic stop, a dude just jumps out of his car with a fucking hatchet. Remember that one?

SPEAKER_04 1:34:51

I was like, holy shit. Yeah, and then there's another one where the dude's on the traffic stop and he just gets stabbed in the face. That was another one.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:01

And that guy ran out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:04

So and it's not that we have to, it's not that those outliers, because they're outliers, it doesn't happen that often, but at the same time, it'd be no different than if you're standing there and I just start standing behind you and you're like, why the why the fuck's this person behind me? You're gonna keep looking, it's gonna divide your attention. It becomes a safety issue because uh of the nature of the job of law enforcement. It it's it's not the same because you're you know the ice cream man, you know, and somebody stands behind you. So I I guess that's that's that's all. Um Tim. Wait, I didn't see a Bentley in the driveway. My sheriff's office said they would arrest me if I recorded in the courtroom. I would listen to that. Don't fuck with the courtroom. Listen, guys, you can press your luck with cops. Do that all day long. Please don't test the judge. Please, that's my best advice I can give you. Don't fuck with a judge. You may be right, but I I that is not a fight you want. I promise you, don't do that. I I mean, unless you are just the most supreme confident in your knowledge, I won't fuck with a judge. I tell you that right now. I'm not screwing with a judge. And this is a problem. Judges have ultimate authority, and they go more unchecked than anybody. Yeah. Because a judge could not like the way you looked. He could not like what you're wearing, he could not like the way you're standing. Get out of my courtroom. I'm holding you in contempt.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:38

And what the fuck are you gonna do? Nothing.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:41

You're gonna leave the court.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:42

And then is that judge ever, he's not gonna lose his judgmanship? I don't know what you call it. Bench. Yeah, he's not gonna lose his bench. He's gonna he's gonna have another judge and go be like, what did you do? You're an idiot. Like, all right. And they're gonna go right back to doing their job. So um statistics on tasers are pretty crazy. I'll post a short video about it on Discord. I will say statistics are not quite there yet with the newest taser, but all statistics on the newest taser, the 10 shot, single shot, are phenomenal. It's showing in upwards of the 90 percentile for effectiveness. All right, that's amazing. Is that because of the the probes? Because of the single shot and the probes. Um, officers are not having to, you know, just get it angled the right way, and distance doesn't make a difference anymore. And so, yeah, it's pretty cool. Um Ben Adkins said on LinkedIn, he said, Where I live, uh where I live, they went live with the first responder drones about a week ago. They sit on top of a PD building and head out when needed for first eyes on. Yes. So that I I guess I never really got into that. Um so what a DFR program is, a drone first responder program, is having drones that can be launched remotely from the real-time crime center. Um, SkyDio has drones out now. I think they're called the R10s, but they officers in patrol cars can have them in their patrol car, and then when they stop, they can get them out, turn them on, and then the real-time crime center takes them over and they can launch them from from wherever. Yeah, that's the cool part. Um things to know for my officers out there wondering about that, your ceiling cap's gonna be 200 feet. If you don't have radar around, it's gonna be 200 feet. If you do have radar, your cap's more than likely 400 feet. So just keep that in mind. If you do the patrol um mount or the patrol launched drones versus having, like what Ben was saying, where they launch from a building.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:47

It's all gonna be dependent on Class B airspace.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:50

Yeah, so when they have that that launch from a building, more than likely there's gonna be a radar accompanied with that, and the radar is going to allow you to go to a 400-foot ceiling. So things to know.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:01

There's a good one from Mike Cucumber there.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:03

Uh let me get rid of this one. Mike said there is no law stating you must exit your vehicle when asked by law enforcement. There is case law, Pennsylvania v. Mims. Uh, and there's further case law, Marilyn v. Wilson, that says you do have to get out of your car on a lawful traffic stop when asked by law enforcement. Now, that law was originally designed based on officer safety. However, the courts got Lucy Goosey and uh the lower circuits basically just allowed cops to ask anybody out of the car. I think it was based on officer safety. So, my advice to any cop that's going to ask somebody out of the vehicle, you better be able to articulate an officer safety issue of why you wanted them out of the car. If you don't do it, you're abusing the spirit of what that law was made and you're doing it wrong. And you're gonna get it taken away. That's gonna be what's gonna happen. You you abuse the law so bad you gotta get it taken away. I was trained to have an articulable reason why I'm asking them out of the vehicle.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:09

Yeah, and if and if you're doing that, then that's it.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:12

Yeah, that's covered. Then you're covered. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So um I I disagree with you. There is there is a law, there's case law. Um super chat from Mason Lawrence. Five dollars. Thank you, brother. Wait a second. I know what Mason makes, he's out there making that big money. He said, uh, the minimum distance to stay away from the circumference of Lawrence's big head, what Lok Lopez called Sputnik. By the way, my head isn't on the only large part of my body. Ew. Uh ew, you just x-rated my show, you grossy.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:48

Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna get a strike.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:52

We're gonna get a strike. Um sputnik because it was large and slightly round.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:57

Like a potato, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:40:59

Aye.

Use‑Of‑Force Video: Walmart Gun Grab

SPEAKER_05 1:41:01

Uh let's see here. Mike said, there's no law stating you must exit your vehicle when asked. I already read that one. Get out of here. Get out of here. Oh, somebody gifted 10 memberships. Where'd that go? Harrison. Harrison. Go figure. Thank you, Harrison. You the man. Harrison delivering 10 memberships out there. Um, no police iron man suit. Nope, no police iron man suit. Not yet. Yet. Yet. Yeah. Um, AI is only as good as the stuff it's programmed to learn. I can't argue that. Um, I did learn from Rick Smith, the owner of Axon, um his favorite AIs are Eve, then Grok, and then Chat GPT. So he actually has conversations with Grok on the way to work. It was kind of cool to hear that. Um, Harrison Brock said, two cops went on AI gets more stuff wrong than right. Speaking as a software engineer who works on this stuff daily. Uh, I think that depends, sir, because you're asking really smart questions. There's a difference. Us kinds, we ask really dumb questions.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:09

Well, I I to that point, I think the hardest thing to replicate or program in is going to be human emotion. So when we're looking at things like de-escalation or a human interaction, yeah, that's gonna be very, very hard. And the I um I don't think the AR is AI is there yet. I agree. But uh it's getting better by leaps and bounds.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:31

Yeah. Um, thank you, Joanne Hutt. Uh she said great, great podcast conversation. Gonna get to work. Keep safe all the way up from up north in Canada.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:41

Stay warm, eh?

SPEAKER_05 1:42:41

Stay warm, eh? Enjoy some uh poutine and uh get that maple syrup, eh? Uh tell the moose I said sell at all. You're hosed. Um uh Rylan uh said, do police drones need to deal with the FAA when using them, or as long as they're not within pass for planes? Uh so you have a you have a waiver. Um you got to get your your part 107 and then your your waiver with the FAA to fly in basically anywhere uh up to 400 feet. Um there's certain things that you have to avoid. Yes, you do have to deal with the FAA um pretty regularly on that. Uh I don't have my part 107 yet. Um, I'm working on that. It's a pain in the ass. It's not easy. Um, but yes, yes, you do have to get involved with the FAA for sure. Um we have I this bro, this is this has been the most active chat we've ever had, Vanny.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:43

I can't speaking of active chat, pull up that$264 one from Arium Ariobohm said uh AI is very bad for getting proper case law. So if you look up case law just based on the biggest search engine everybody says, and you type in what is case law for this, there's four or five that they have in there that the case law doesn't exist. And unfortunately, there have been officers across the country and defense attorneys that are quoting case law that doesn't exist, and it's getting all the way to court, and even the DA is not picking it, you know, they're certainly well, it must be there. They're they're doing this and this and this, and they're finding out that AI is putting in uh some false uh case law that does not exist. So it is, as a human, look up your shit the correct way. Uh, make sure it's good, double check it, even though AI is spitting it out to you. Don't be don't be that guy, gal. Look it up, make sure it's correct.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:41

Yep. Um, this is a good topic. Um, some police departments from Ryan uh Land said uh some police departments charge a huge amount of money to give civilians video that they request. I'm sure there's uh different reasons for that. So this goes into how much work goes into getting the videos. Sometimes I agree that it's if it's your body cam video on a call, you're on, great. No charge, or maybe 20 bucks processing fee, whatever, small amount. However, there's people that do massive freedom of information dumps like police activity, one of our favorites. Yeah, they they're paying money. That is not they're paying money for that. That's a massive amount of information they're trying to process. Somebody's got to do the work, and it can't be done for free. Like it's somebody's gotta pay for that. Just because we paid for the equipment and we're paying for the storage, like again, guys, like that somebody's gotta do the work. Are you guys gonna work for free? Nobody's gonna work for free. Your tax dollars, they're they're covering getting the footage, it's not covering going and retrieving it and all that than the physical capacity drives that we're giving to people to have it.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:59

I mean, that's got to be paid for as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:01

Yeah, yeah. So it's uh that's a sl it's gonna get better though. Yeah, data's inevitably gets easier and easier to store, smaller, faster, all that stuff. So it's going to be easier, but right now we're still kind of in that infancy stage where we're trying to figure out how to move masses, amounts of data. Um, we got to get that data smaller and we got to get it more convenient. So that will come, but right now we're just in a shitty time for that. And it I think that's why they're charging because it just takes a lot of time and and manpower.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:32

Um drive by the airport to loot the drone.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:35

Uh yeah, country, country guy living said that's a subjective question. There is no right or wrong answer. It's based on perspective. I don't know what we're talking about. I must have been something earlier. Uh my sheriff's office said they would arrest me if I recorded in the courtroom. I already read that one. Uh sounds like drones are taking over where helicopters were used. Yeah, I agree. I think I absolutely think drones are going to replace helicopters. A hundred percent. In in a law enforcement capacity. I think drones are gonna they're gonna replace them.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:06

Yeah, because the helicopter doesn't do anything else other than observe. Right. I mean, until we're actually rappelling out of troop carrying helicopters to respond to something.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:17

Yeah, we're just eyes on with the helicopters.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:20

Agreed. Um AI has learned how to get around finding the right answer, it is only looking to complete its task, not find the right answer. Huh. It's an interesting change. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that makes sense. Um, AI has a problem with accents. Oh, I bet it really with Gaelic people and stuff. Drive by the airport to elude drones. Yeah. Well, no, not necessarily. No, we can still fly by airports. It goes into airspace again. Um, because you have different like A, for instance, uh A airspace is like where the planes fly way up 30,000 feet or high or something like that. Uh, I think the generalized one that we deal with is like G and G and E, and I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:12

Well, if you if you just think about, you know, like uh, I don't know, Dallas Fort Worth area, they have Class B airspace, and that's going to surround uh right at that 250, as you get closer to an airport like DFW or Alliance, you get into that Class B airspace, and that's that transition airspace uh for takeoff and landing. And as you get closer, the airport, and what I want everybody to picture the if you look above uh where everybody lives, above the buildings and everything, picture like an upside down uh wedding cake. And as it goes higher, the the airspace gets wider. So the Class B airspace um is the one that we really have to be careful with in reference to law enforcement on where we're flying on on our where we're allowed to do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:54

Yep. Um Kate Sexton said, blessed to have been trained by George. He's the best. Uh for that. It's funny because I've I also have been trained by George. I I basically started getting trained when you first started with a department. Uh because I've been there just about that long.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:10

What class?

SPEAKER_05 1:49:11

131, 132.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:14

No, you weren't you were a tiny little class. Not all of you guys made it.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:20

No, we had 34 that started, and only 16 graduated.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:23

No, I started up there with class 128.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:25

Okay, so real close. That's what I mean. Yeah, it was real close. Yeah. Um I appreciate that. Thank you. Let's see. Uh Harrison said the FAA is making new rules to stop drones made in China from entering the USA for sale. Well, I I would I'd love to tell you this. Uh, the police departments were way ahead of that. We said if they're from China, we're not taking them. So that's been a big thing. A lot of police departments have been turning them away in lieu of knowing that that's what the FAA was trying to get ahead. So um we're we're in the same boat. We're not trying to uh get I think that Scottio is all 100% made in the USA. And Brink also, I think, is so yeah, that is a big deal right now. You're right, Harrison. Uh let me see here. Heat shield. Good research practices, just like Wikipedia. We have had enough time to understand. You look at sources, Grok provides sources. That's true. Um, and I've noticed Chat GPT is starting to show sources as well, where they're pulling their information from. So that's good. Um, again, it goes into how well you do your search. If you do a general question, you're gonna get a general answer. But if you do a detailed search with detailed parameters, tend to get a more detailed answer. Um it's cheaper to replace drones with helicopter jet fuel is costly. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um Marine blood. I posted a picture of two cops, uh, one on a private jet in the Discord. Join the Discord to check it out. Is it just a it's gonna be a little toy? I don't have a private jet. Um Heat Shield said upside down wedding cake is a decent visual. Uh yeah, upside down wedding cake. That's how airspace looks. That's a good yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:21

Learn that.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:22

So you can it did surprise me when I was going through the 107 class. How close to an airport, the way the airspace works around it. I'm like, oh shit. And then you learn how they navigate when they're gonna land and all that stuff. It was weird. I learned a lot, and I'm I have zero interest in being a pilot, but you're basically going through pilot class. Um look at the FAA drone map. You can't fly a drone near an airport, particularly in landing path. Well, duh. Of course you can't, but you can fly near an airport.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:57

And there are certain airports that can take over your drone, and the large manufacturer ones when it gets into uh that controlled airspace. If you're overriding whatever software that that that that manufacturer of a drone already has built in for you to avoid uh such locations, yes, they can take over your drone, and that is a safety perspective.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:16

Yep. Um if you'd like to support the channel, give this link a little tap. Love it. Um, so yeah, guys, uh one of the things that we do to help support the page uh in the platform of what we're doing is we have this thing called Buy Me a Coffee. The link's up there right now. Uh, if you buy a membership and do that on the YouTube channel, that's great, but YouTube gets the majority of that. If you don't want to help support a superpower like YouTube, which they probably got their own country by now, uh get around them and uh go to Buy Me a Coffee, and that's just a different way that you can help support the channel. So um look at us. We got through all of those. I haven't seen Mr. Billful on, he must have jumped off.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:03

No, he's still there, he was just there coming through.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:05

Well, I'm in the pinned comment, so I didn't see it. It is what it is. Um okay. Let's get shit. We're almost two hours in. We haven't even gotten to the videos. We'll get to a couple videos, and we're gonna we're gonna call it at two hours though. Because it's damn near 10 o'clock. I gotta work in the morning. George gotta work in the morning. Are you off?

SPEAKER_00 1:53:23

I'm only getting paid for two hours tonight.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:27

I do have some videos uh tuned up over here. Let me uh we already did that guy. Let's get this guy off of here. Alright.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:40

That's the creeper that follows me around on the treadmill.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:44

That was the creeper. All right, here. How long is this one? Let me look at the length of these videos. Oh, this will be a good one. All right. Share screen. Boom. All right, shout out to police activity. That's where we're getting all our videos tonight. Um we're gonna biggie size this guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:06

I will uh I'll be quiet on this one this way.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:08

Yes, I I actually already covered this one, but George wasn't here for that. So I'm gonna let George cover this guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:18

What do you think, George?

SPEAKER_06 1:55:20

I think we need to hire that kid in the white shirt.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:23

No shit. He's a Marine. Lost French and he's a former Marine.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:27

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:28

Um so uh I'm sorry, what branch did you say that was Eric? I didn't hear it. Rhymes with Sardine.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:38

We had to travel that way. The Navy didn't have very much room for us in their ships. Right. Um so what's your impression, George? As far as what? What are what are we what are we looking at here? Just on face value, the only reason that cop made it out of that is is dumb luck.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:58

Yeah, we had a malfunction of the firearm.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:00

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:00

And um because he pulled the trigger, you could hear it.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:03

Right, click, right. And there's all kinds of things we can get into about pre-assault indicators and safety of the people that are being detained and what they're being detained for and whatnot. And if you were to look at if you were to look at this event and without having the gun into play, but we take that person and we put them in handcuffs and sit them on that bench while we're continuing this investigation, is that unreasonable because we're we're putting them in handcuffs when they're still just being investigated, whether or not probable cause have been determined or not. I don't know if he's under arrest yet. I'm assuming that that's a prisoner pickup. Pretty much. Okay. Pretty much so he's under arrest. Why isn't why isn't he in handcuffs? But that's that fine line that we look at because he's a kid, it's a it's a non-violent misdemeanor offense. Why do we have to be so heavy-handed and put him in handcuffs and sit him on that bench there? That's exactly why we do those things, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:57:03

And I'm what I've learned since watching, because I've watched this video several times. Um, there's a longer video that we don't have access to, but he does a hasty pat down. It's a shit pat down, and he missed it. Yeah, and that was the problem. He did a shit pat down. So when we start talking about training and you know, yeah, he had indicators that he was gonna do some dumb shit, but it could have all been prevented if we just done a proper pat down, sure, which we have absolute reason to do one because we're there for an offense that was brought in by loss prevention at Walmart. So um, banning tell Sergeant Levine that there is no former before Marine. I know that's why I like fucking with you guys. It's it's purely to get under your skin. Uh, so from camp pen devil pup. Oh too funny. I love I love messing with you, Marines. Uh, too funny. Um let me see here. Going through the comments. Yeah, Mr. Billfold, the cop did not pat him down when he got there, obviously. Yeah, yeah. Um, Perry Lemmley said empty chamber. I don't know. It could have been empty chamber, it could have been uh bad mag load, it could have been like it was the the rounds weren't seated properly. That's what I think. Because he racks the gun again and tries to fire it again.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:34

It's gonna be that it was out of battery too, because it looked like was he trying to hide it in his sleeve?

SPEAKER_05 1:58:40

That's what I'm not sure. Hold on, there's a way to make this go slow-mo again. I just gotta remember how. Um playback speed. Yeah, I want to make this one better. Playback speed. We'll go half speed. Oh, we gotta actually share the screen. I forgot to share the screen. There we go. He pulled the trigger twice and he racked that thing. Girlfriend absolutely had no idea he was about to do that. Girlfriend didn't know. That's not the reaction of somebody that knows this is about to go down.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:10

That's not part of the plan, bro.

SPEAKER_05 2:00:11

Yeah. So you hear the I think that's so you hear the click. There he is, racking the gun. Yeah. Does he ride the slide? Is that what maybe happens here? Nope. And he pulls it again. You can hear it click. You can hear that gun does not go off. And then he decided he didn't want that smoke. Yeah. I am gonna give this officer, and I said this before, incredible restraint to not pull that trigger. Yeah, incredible restraint. Um, and now you guys got to remember too, this officer, he is in such a weird loop right now, trying to figure out do I pull the trigger, do I not pull the trigger? Is this guy fighting to get that gun back? Yeah, because he does recognize that the guy drops it. Yeah, because he comes in with the knee and he holsters.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:10

Yep. And you can tell that Marine's trying to bring that thing to his body, doing a great, great job of control.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:16

So he's trying to separate the guy from the weapon. Meanwhile, the Marine is going for the gun to get that separated. Girlfriend's trying to get the fuck out. Yeah, she's out. Um, so the knee strike, I'm good with that all day.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:31

Yeah, I I think someone addressed that as a called that a kick to the groin. I think it's a knee strike to the to the midsection of her chest.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:37

Yeah, yeah, or the head, one of the two. I can't I can't remember.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:40

All day, all day. There's lethal threat on the table.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:43

Yeah, I'm completely fine with this. There's zero. And he's trying to holster. Meanwhile, you got to keep him away from the weapon that the officer still believes is right on the floor next to him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:55

And the officer's got his hand on the weapon too. So that's right. That in an in an up close encounter where we're going hands-on, that's gonna be a problem.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:05

So he has to address that too. And he addressed it perfectly by holstering.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:08

Yep. Look, he's he's just he's in a weird spot. The officer's trying to get his gun put away, but realizes if this guy leans forward, the weapon's right there. So let me keep going. Officer does a good job holstering up. Notice that he looks away from the suspect to put his holster to holster his weapon. So he's taking his eyes away from the bad guy, turns forwards and boom, delivers a couple strikes. So he did all of that in like a half a second. Yeah. I know we got it in slow mo, but he did all that in half a second. So delivers the knee strike, turns His head puts his weapon away, comes back. He was throwing those punches before he even knew where to throw them.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:02

And so him turning, throwing those, they they were blind punches when he first started. He realized, oh, the guy's huddled up. Let me get him to the ground and I'm gonna finish the arrest. So I'm good with that use of force all day long. Uh people on the can you fuck around and find out. What did oh, people are teasing Mike? What did he say? What did he say? He was lucky. Yeah, I know that. Um, that metal TCOD badge is sick. Well, you can get that metal badge. We got it for sale on uh ghostpatch.com. Um, them 3D printed guns he had in a fanny pack. Why wasn't he searched? Yeah, that's what we're saying. Uh oh, Mike was saying excessive force. He's being dumb. Um, Steve Perry said, fuck around and find out.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:52

Oh, good eye. He said uh forgot guns need bullets, nothing ejected when he racked it. I didn't catch that.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:58

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. His hand was over the slide. Yeah, so I was looking for a round to come out, and um yeah, it was great restraint by that guy. Um I mean, honestly, considering what just happened to him, that's probably one of the most professional responses I've seen.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 2:04:18

That was that was a very professional response. Um, and that was out of Canton, Ohio. So um looking at the comments here. Uh could have been high point. That was a legit gun. He had a red dot and a and a light on there. Um it could have been a cheap ass gun, true, but um it it didn't seem like one. So uh let's see here. Let's go to let's go to a short video. That's five minutes. I don't want to do five minutes. Seven minutes, I don't want to do seven. What's this one? 239. There we go. Why did this go so large? What are we laughing about being?

SPEAKER_00 2:05:07

Oh, you're just discussing time on performance time. I'm just gonna think about it.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:13

Okay, let me share this tab. All right, why is that so biggie size? There we go. And again, police activity. We're on ten eighty. Okay, we're good. And play.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:45

George, translate. Sounds like she's gonna say my son's got a knife in George.

SPEAKER_10 2:05:59

He has a knife and he says he wants to kill himself. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:32

You okay? Do you have anything in your hand?

SPEAKER_05 2:06:36

Okay. I'm just gonna say this. Based on mom speaking on 911, my hope would be that you got somebody that was Spanish speaking with you.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:46

Because this isn't gonna turn out well.

SPEAKER_05 2:06:48

Yeah. My assumption's gonna be that you speak Spanish or the very broken English because of the caller. So I'm hoping that got put out. Um you gotta get mom back. She's gotta get like I understand they're trying to address what's going on in here, but they are not doing a good job of getting her out of the way. She's but she's a distraction now. And so is you know, Fido there. That's gonna be another problem.

SPEAKER_07 2:07:19

Hey bud, let me see your hands. Yeah, come on over here, okay?

SPEAKER_05 2:07:26

Okay. I'm already game planning. If I can see his hands, cool, I'm gonna use that door. If he starts running towards me, I'm just gonna shut it.

SPEAKER_08 2:07:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:37

I'm gonna shut that door and just wait for him to thud and and probably just keep it shut. Yeah. So you got anything on that, Banning?

SPEAKER_00 2:07:49

No, I don't not more than what you said. I mean, I unfortunately we've all of us have to go had to go into situations like this. And, you know, if I can see both hands and they're in the hallway, I've been a type of guy that will just uh go grab up and depending on why we're called there to begin with, uh, but just to make everybody safe and just kind of wrap them up and detain, depending on, again, why we're there to begin with.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:09

Um, Brander, I'm gonna push back on this. She's only a distraction if you let her be one. Um, that's not true. You've never dealt with a domestic with a statement like that. Because the moment you turn your back on somebody when I go to put hands on her son, she's gonna fucking flip and she's gonna be on your back like a damn spider monkey.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:30

So I've been hitting the back of the head with a plate from approaching the top.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:34

I had one break a wooden spoon over the back of my head.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:36

Well, I mean, don't look at her as just a distraction. She's an another variable or another potential that he could harm. You are tasked with protecting her life as much as his. So he could lunge for her. So you have to take that into account. You would be you would be negligent if you didn't.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:53

As soon as the cops show up, he may take that as a betrayal and turn his focus from being on himself to being uh to her. I've seen that happen unseen. You're dealing with a barricaded person, and you get there, and then they find out that mom called the cops on them.

SPEAKER_06 2:09:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:09

And now they're trying to get at mom.

SPEAKER_06 2:09:12

So Elmer Thud. Thuds against the door.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:16

Right. Oh shit, I lost the mouse. There it is. All right, let's keep going. Um play.

unknown 2:09:23

We got one mail coming out.

SPEAKER_07 2:09:24

Do me a favor, stop right there. Stop right there.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:27

Nice demeanor.

SPEAKER_07 2:09:28

Just turn around. Keep on coming back. No, no, no, turn back around. Turn back around. Come back. No, no, no, turn back around. Turn back around. Turn back around.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:39

Okay. Not in a good situation here. For somebody that's own mother called on him as being armed with a knife.

SPEAKER_06 2:09:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:47

So okay, now it's uh fade the blade. Get the fuck out of Dodge. Um, I have literally ran two blocks. I was fast. So I ran two blocks. I turned around and looked, the dude's like a block and a half away. Like I smoked him.

SPEAKER_06 2:10:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 2:10:03

But he had um, it wasn't a knife, it was a uh like a a barbecue barbecue tool, like the little two-poker guy. Yep, he had one of those. And um mess you up, right? But he was wasted drunk, and I was like, I can outrun this guy. So I ran, turned around, I was like, all right, I got distance, let me get my taser out. Uh and he ended up focusing on a neighbor that was yelling at him, like, quit fucking with the cops. And he charged like fucking, I can eat that tased him, so he was done. Uh yeah. Anyway, let's keep going.

SPEAKER_09 2:10:45

Get another glum.

SPEAKER_05 2:10:48

Can hear it.

SPEAKER_09 2:10:50

Get another glam! Get another glam!

SPEAKER_05 2:10:58

This goes to the getting magnetized. They started they started drawing in and closing distance on a guy with a knife. Um when we got the whole 21-foot rule, you know. It's not a real rule, guys, but it's uh it's a guideline, it's more like the uh 35-45-foot rule. Yeah. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:11:23

Come over here, phone.

SPEAKER_09 2:11:30

Hey, jump it, jump it.

SPEAKER_05 2:11:33

We tried to chase and one of the kill!

SPEAKER_09 2:11:37

Get him on the ground, the ground!

SPEAKER_05 2:11:52

That is what we call suicide by cop. Unfortunate. So going to the what is that? Oh shit. What'd you do? I don't know. You hit a button. I don't know what I did. Um, just going to the comments. That's all the videos I'm gonna play for tonight. Um get rid of this. Let's expand this guy out for me and George. We can get it. God dang it. There we go. Big George. I biggie side just George for yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:12:34

I need all the help I can get.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:36

Um Country Guy Living said, I watched a video not too long ago where a lady was sitting in the middle of the road having a mental issue. About 15 cops showed up and unloaded on her within minutes, even though she wasn't a threat to them. Yeah. I've seen VAD videos like that too. Um Brandar said, didn't the call notes say that he was going to off himself? Uh he yeah, suicidal people become homicidal people really quick.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:05

With speed of thought.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:06

Yeah. So just because you say you're gonna kill yourself doesn't that's not a person that's thinking clearly.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:13

Well, I mean, you you're you're already in the mindset where you're okay with somebody dying.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:18

Right.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:18

Are you okay with yeah, making somebody else die with you that's trying to prevent you from dying?

SPEAKER_05 2:13:24

Yeah. And for somebody that wants to die, it's very easy to try to force somebody to make them kill you. Yeah, especially the police. That's why these calls come in. Um, T Pearson said, so it looks like they were advancing towards him when his back was facing them, then tried repositioning back when he ran at them. Yeah, that's why we say a lot of times with a threat, we tend to magnetize in. You see it a lot, especially in sim round training. We get hyper focused when we get in, we're going to clear a room, we're doing uh active shooter training or whatever it is. We we see, we do a peek around a corner and we see the gun. Show me your hand, show me your hand, show me your hand. We start moving in on it and instead of staying back behind our cover like we should. So it's it's uh incumbent on us as instructors to recognize that and and talk it through. Yeah, don't just talk at them, but talk it through. Walk me through what you were thinking. Tell me what what was going through your mind. Well, I saw this and this and that. And okay, let me tell you what I saw. Tell them what you saw. Then you have that discussion. So um when time allots it anyway.

unknown 2:14:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:14:32

What's more important at that time? You're gonna have to prioritize in hundreds of a second. Is it is it more important to neutralize that threat or not get stabbed?

unknown 2:14:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:14:41

I mean, your two best friends in an edge weapon encounter are gonna be distance and obstacles. Yep. But if those officers haven't been exposed to that kind of training, which which ours have, um they they probably will close distance. But the the tendency with our profession is to close distance and start to solve the problem.

SPEAKER_05 2:15:00

Yeah. Yep, absolutely. Yep, I agree.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:04

Um that's not to explain that or condone or say that it's right or whatever. And then that's what I'm saying is that's that's the human tendency and human performance factors kind of thing.

SPEAKER_05 2:15:15

Yeah. Um Brandar said, I understand that, but the officers didn't even try to connect. It started with directions instead of connection. Well, I'm gonna say based on the tone and where they were at, it looked like an apartment complex hallway. Do I keep sight of the guy and try to get him to come towards me? Hey, all right, come here, turn around. Let me see. Like it's easy to Monday morning quarterback on how somebody should start connecting and talking. Uh, but when you're in the situation, I mean, you wanted the same guy that had to worry about you didn't want him to worry about the mom that was standing right behind him. He's trying to get her to get back while he's trying to talk to this person. You got to deal with what you got in front of you. There's there's no perfect recipe for stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:02

And Ryan's got a good comment on there, the 6849, the very last one. This is this is something that that a lot of TV shows and cops or whatever you're watching out there does not cover. This is uh and it's different in different jurisdictions, but a lot of it's the same.

SPEAKER_05 2:16:19

What is the next few weeks like for police that shoot? I'm I mean, as far as policy, recovery, and time off. Um, it's gonna be a shitstorm. It's gonna be a shitstorm. It's gonna be worried about going to jail, they're gonna be worried about you know, going to prison, they're gonna worry about morally and ethically, did they make the right choice? They're gonna second guess themselves, they're gonna be thinking over and over, could I have done something different? They're gonna say, What was the policies and procedures? Did I follow my training right? What was I trained? Did I see what I think I saw? I thought I saw this, but now I'm second guessing it because another officer told me to see that. And now I got to worry about that. So these are a ton of things are gonna have to go through the head. How's my family gonna look at me? Oh my god, I might have lost my job even if I did the right thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:09

And there's I mean, just to kind of give you just a couple of the first steps, it happens. This whole scene that we just watched unfold gets completely shut down. No ins, no outs. Uh, if it's here in Texas, if it's a definitely a rural agency out in the middle of nowhere, Texas Rangers are on the way. If the officer has what's called TMPA or cleat as representation, are coming to the scene to help the officer mentally think about what happened to where they can go through their body cam footage. Uh the the officer, that the the guns that law enforcement used uh are gonna be taken from those officers, and only some agencies replace those guns as they send them home, and that's another big problem. Uh, another reason why the suicide rate is really high on the law enforcement side when they've done something that's uh like this. I believe this is uh it's unfortunate, but it's a justified shooting. Um and then now they gotta go home and sit about it or and think about it before they do their their actual articulation and their narrative. Usually they have um uh correct me if I'm wrong on this, but most agencies, what, uh 24 to 72 hours uh to write that first narrative uh after an OIS or officer-involved shooting, they got to get something down on paper. Um it's it's a lot of things that go on mentally and emotionally for these officers. Yes, they signed up for it, but there's nothing, there's nothing that can just truly prepare you for it. There's a lot that these these young officers uh will have to go through.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:35

Um Mr. Belfold said, George, thanks for joining us again. Really appreciate you, even when I disagree with you. Um that's one of the good things. Uh Brandar said, I guess my mentality is thinking of everyone. Officers are trained to worry about their safety. Fuck yeah, you're worried about your safety. You're out there dealing with the worst of society. That person, I'm not saying he's a bad person. He is in the worst type of mindset. Yes, officer safety is paramount. Your health and wellness does not trump my personal safety when you're being not in your right mind, when you're not following the laws.

SPEAKER_06 2:19:17

We also have the priority of life scale, and that helps us with making those kinds of decisions. Right. So in the priority of life scale, if you don't know, it's it's hostages, innocent bystanders, um, first responders, law enforcement, and bad guys, and then subject suspect. So if I have to make a decision in hundredths of a second to protect one life or and and potentially end another by using deadly force, I I have to decide on preserving that life. Example, guy walking with a gun pointed to his head into a crowded building. I I don't want to shoot that guy, especially in the back. He's walking away from me. Does he present a threat to me at that time in that instant? No. But can I can I articulate my belief that if I don't stop him using deadly force, he has the potential to go in and take hostages or kill innocent bystanders. I have to make that hard decision. And then another part of the process when you're involved in a critical incident like that in a shooting, it's something very simple. You really don't think about it until it happens to you. Those officers, they are um isolated from each other, from everyone else, from supervisors. They're literally taken their guns are taken away from them, and they're put in the backseat of a police car. And and they sit there until the department don't contact them. Nobody's nobody's talking to them. And back, the people are just avoiding them. Like the think about how that would feel after you've just been through an event where you've had to take up a life. Right. And now you are in that situation. It's hard.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:49

And and and not to mention, we didn't even bring this up, is any any officer that's there that discharged their weapon towards that subject with the knife has now got to go before a grand jury. You're for doing your job and what you're trained, you are now going before a grand jury. And you in your mind, you know, that officer is on scene, like, man, that's the last thing they want to do when they wake up is take a life. And then it happened. And now they got to go home. And then they got to wait on grand jury, and they got to get all the thoughts and processes. And then the then the suspect's family is going through their grieving too. You know, three or four hours before that, that guy may have not have been in that mental state of what he went through. Um, that that apparently you know led to this here. He may have been a great guy in a past deal, and now that this unfolded in maybe a short amount of time. It's a case-by-case basis, but it's tragic in the whole loop here.

SPEAKER_05 2:21:43

Um what everybody said, I still think officers should know that their arrival added a new variable and that they should be aware of in a SBC scenario. Yeah. We know that.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:55

Yeah, we're trained on that.

SPEAKER_05 2:21:56

We're trained on that.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:57

Like officer presence is low-level use force.

SPEAKER_05 2:22:00

Right. I mean, and then we get we get into that so fine finite that we try to tell people like if you look like a bag of ass, you're gonna be tested more versus a guy that's sharp dressed, uh, you know, works out, has guns like George. Like it it makes a difference.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:21

Officer presence makes a difference. So, yes, showing up. That's why when they showed up, they weren't saying, Hey, show me your fucking hand. They didn't do that. He was talking very nice.

SPEAKER_05 2:22:32

He was, in a sense, de-escalating by his tone. They weren't being dicks and in yelling at him. They said, Hey, can you can you do it? Can you turn around to talk like normal? So, yes, they they they already know this. Um, now do all cops do that? No, we've seen videos where I'm like, your attitude just got you into that use of force, you were in. Asshole, yeah, 100%. Yeah, and it got you into it. Yeah, so um, but in this case, with this video, no, I don't agree with you at all. Um, Ryan's got another good uh point down there at the very bottom of the phone. Oh, yeah, he said, even if it was all legit and the right thing to do, that officer will forever live with that, too. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You get you want to see a video of somebody that just absolutely went through it all. Watch our interview with Bruce Anderson, his shooting. Like you got a guy that was a very proactive cop, um, and and went through everything, almost went through a divorce, uh, you know, hated the department for the way it turned its back on him. Um just all that. He didn't, you know, he ended up being justified in what he did and all that stuff, but it's a really eye-opening thing for what he had to go through. Uh bag of ass, my favorite, my favorite fashion. Or as they'd say in the military in boot camp, a duffel bag. You look like a duffel bag.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:00

No, we used to just call him shit birds. There you go.

SPEAKER_05 2:24:04

Too many morons think that cops will stop a bullet for them. And they don't even, according to the Supreme Court, they don't even have to. Now that's not the mindset that cops have for the most part. But um, at least in the state of Texas, I think you can be charged for for uh failure to act or dereliction of duty or something like that. Yeah, we actually have a charge in Texas.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:27

Um for which one was that, Eric?

SPEAKER_05 2:24:31

Like in a shooting scenario, like uh active shooter if you're there and you don't go do something, like the Uvaldi shit um that they were talking about. Uh I don't know all the ins and outs of Uvalde. I'd really like to get somebody on to talk about that, but from my understanding, it wasn't for a lack of wanting of not wanting to go in due to cowardice, it was bad information and um well, how do we know they weren't trying to de-escalate?

SPEAKER_06 2:25:00

I mean, it's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't maybe they should have been dealing in hundredths of a second. Yeah. And somebody else, the way I tell the recruits is when you get into an event like this, knife, uh edge weapon, gun, whatever, okay, it comes down to time. And the time clock, the stopwatch, is in the subject suspect's hands, and he decides when to start the time.

SPEAKER_05 2:25:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 2:25:23

And everything that you do is after that is going to be reactionary. So you're you the problem is always time.

SPEAKER_02 2:25:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:25:30

And the only things that we can do, like we try to at our agency, is to create distance. Time equals time. Time, distance, distance and cover equals time. Yes. And then greater time is greater survivability.

SPEAKER_05 2:25:43

Yep. Yep. And then the other part that we don't address a whole lot in here, because I'm not big into um the side of the house that I can't control. But one thing that we seem to lack is uh accountability for the person that started the whole thing. Nobody that guy could have stopped that at any time. Could have just not ran, not did everything that he did. He could have given up when he was obviously outnumbered. So we have to be able to turn and point the finger at the person that caused it all to begin with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:26:23

There's some great points coming up there. Failure to act as in failure to do your job, basically.

SPEAKER_05 2:26:28

Yep.

Closing Thoughts & Community Plans

SPEAKER_06 2:26:29

Um, yeah. I I would be held accountable if that if that subject made it to his mom and stabbed his mom. Why didn't I stop him from stabbing his mom?

unknown 2:26:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 2:26:37

And that's why things like the priority of life scale in in training environments helps us get to those decisions quicker because we're out of time.

SPEAKER_05 2:26:44

Jesus Christ, Brandar. Mother was on the far left of the back the knife wheel that ran to the left. It doesn't fucking matter, dude. Do you know if there's another civilian in the parking lot? Yeah, there's other cops out there.

unknown 2:26:59

Mr.

SPEAKER_06 2:26:59

Billfold, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 2:27:00

Thank you. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Yeah, I agree. Like I'm I'm all about having some constructive uh conversation, Brandon, but not when it gets into the point of just ridiculousness. That's ridiculousness to me. Uh that mother killed her son out of ignorance. She believed the BS. I I don't I don't necessarily agree with that. I think she thought her son was going through a true mental health crisis. I do think that that was a thing. Um, and I think I honestly think that's what the kid wanted. I think he was he just this was a suicide by cop. Um but yeah. Well, anyway, guys, you got anything, banning, before we get out of here?

SPEAKER_00 2:27:46

I'm just glad we didn't send in the social workers or knocked up.

SPEAKER_05 2:27:49

Look at look at Alan showing off his Christmas shirt. I like it. He's got a Christmas story shirt on. Uh, too nice. I went with my uh Flamingo with Gun Legs uh retro shirt tonight. Um George is wearing his uh all black tonight.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:08

Those are the AI guns. Yeah, that's the name of that shirt. That's his fan, that's his Ponzi shirt. Hey, I like Fonzi.

SPEAKER_06 2:28:16

Hey, Ponzi when it was prime time and not syndicated. Not syndicated? Oh, didn't know what happened to Pinky Tuscadero after the demolition derby. If you know, you know. You know.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:28

I remember when he jumped the motorcycle. Yeah, yeah, I remember that one too.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:32

That didn't go so high.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:34

You what?

SPEAKER_00 2:28:37

So that didn't go so high. Well, you don't remember when he did it on uh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:42

But uh all right. Well, I've got nothing. Uh Banning's got nothing. Alan just showing off his shirt. George, you're the guest of honor. You get the parting words, sir.

SPEAKER_06 2:28:51

Thank you so much for letting me be a part of this. All right.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:54

Well, you seem to be a popular extension of the show.

SPEAKER_06 2:28:56

I appreciate that. So I really hope that uh moving forward with these kinds of ideas, we can we can actually get to the source of these things and make it better.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:05

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_06 2:29:06

That's the goal.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:06

Yeah. Well, next time we have you on, we'll have a whole agenda and with uh some solution offers to figure out figure out what people have to say about it.

unknown 2:29:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:17

Hey, what do you think about in the future, Eric? Uh, once the show starts developing more and we start bringing our audience in to do uh scenarios with us.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:25

I'm down. I'm down. I'd I'd like to get Mr. Billfold, but afraid he might just hulk out on me. So uh oh man.

SPEAKER_06 2:29:38

I can get a hold of a simulator if we needed to.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:41

Yeah, we could, I think. Yeah, that would be cool. As long as you don't have a felony on your record. Yeah, we could get you in there. That would be awesome. But uh, all right, guys. I appreciate everybody tonight. This was fun. Uh, had some good conversations. Brandar, still love you, buddy. Um, Mr. Bill Fold, good stuff tonight. Marine Blood, my mods, Marine Blood, Twitchy Skitch. Uh, thank you very much. Um, I'm missing one. Uh Natalie, I don't know if she was on here tonight. Tim, bearded Tim. Uh, thank you for all your mod stuff. Uh, Rogue Nation audits in the house. What's up, brother? I just saw that last second. Just want to give you a shout out. Um, Mr. Billfold, my attack dog. Appreciate you guys. Everybody, have a good night and take it easy. And have a Merry Christmas. Appreciate a Merry Christmas.