ICE, Rights, And When To Call Cops

Join me, host Sgt Erik Lavigne, the return of the rookie Trey Mosley, and special guest Anthony Bandiero from Blue to Gold law enforcement training. We even have a special story time. A dad, two kids, a frozen lake—and four officers on the dock. That viral moment becomes our doorway into a bigger, sharper question: when does a safety worry justify a 911 call, and when does it become pressure disguised as policing? We bring the original poster onto the show to tell his side, and we work through the messy details together: a Virginia lake that rarely freezes, private HOA property, open water in the middle, and a community that sees thin ice as a hard no. He’s candid about what he’d have done and why. We’re candid about discretion, constitutional limits, and the real weight of simply showing up in uniform.

From there, we shift into practical, street-level law. We test ID demands during stops, passengers who match wanted persons, and where community caretaking ends. We dig into cite-and-release drug cases and why exigency—not search incident to arrest—may be the cleanest path to recover evidence without hauling someone to jail. Then we break down Terry frisk failures: why “training and experience” isn’t a magic phrase, how timing undermines credibility, and what articulation actually sticks in court. If you can’t defend it from the report to the stand, don’t do it.

We also talk culture. Real-Time Crime Centers can make policing smarter and safer when policy discipline is tight. Auditors can be irritants or unexpected allies depending on your poise. And chasing SWAT is a test of character as much as fitness; a first “no” often measures how badly you want the “yes.” Threaded through it all is a simple principle: use the badge lightly and your voice well. Educate, de-escalate, and reserve force for the moments that truly demand it.

If this kind of open, honest conversation hits home, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review. Your feedback helps thoughtful policing—and thoughtful community action—ri

Peregrine.io: Turn your worst detectives into Sherlock Holmes, head to Peregrine.io tell them Two Cops One Donut sent you or direct message me and I'll get you directly connected and skip the salesmen.

Chapters

• 0:00 Disclaimer And Opening Banter
• 1:39 Guest Intros And Show Purpose
• 6:45 Legal Education Mission And Background
• 13:30 Setting Up The Ice Lake Dispute
• 18:40 Video Play And Comment Exchange
• 31:09 Caller Joins To Share His Side
• 44:14 Safety, Property, And Community Norms
• 55:24 Are Police Being Weaponized Here?
• 1:09:44 Finding Common Ground And Takeaways
• 1:13:34 Post-Call Debrief And Humor
• 1:17:47 SWAT Path, Rejection, And Mindset
• 1:30:54 Fourth Amendment Scenarios And Tactics
• 1:54:44 Pat-Down Pitfalls And Best Practices

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Disclaimer. Welcome to Two Cops One Donut Podcast. The views and opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Two Cops One Donut, its host or affiliate. The podcast is intended for entertainment and informational purposes only. We do not endorse any guests' opinions or actions discussed during the show. Any content provided by guests is of their own volition, and listeners are encouraged to form their own opinions. Furthermore, some content is graphic and has harsh language. Your discretion advised and is intended for mature audiences. Two Cops Wendona and its host do not accept any liability for statements or actions taken by guests. Thank you for listening. What is going on, folks? Eric Levine, two cops, one donut, coming in a day early with uh one of my special guests today. The other one is late. He's trying to jump on. Uh he just texted me. Camera issues, trying to fix it now. This is why, Anthony, thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_06: 1:05

First of all, I got my act together.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07

You got your act together. I told Trey an hour before this started, hey, the studio's open. Go ahead and jump on anytime and start messing with your camera, your audio, whatever it is you need to get fixed because he hasn't been on in a while. And what is the rookie doing? He is messing with his settings right now. Just text me, trying to get the camera going. I'll be there in a second. So the son of a bitch. Anyway, Anthony, sir, glad to have you back. How are you?

SPEAKER_06: 1:38

I'm very good. Glad to be back.

SPEAKER_01: 1:41

I know. You and I uh we we recorded a podcast today.

SPEAKER_06: 1:45

We did. We uh we're gonna put that on the uh the Blue to Gold channel, and uh it's basically an introduction of you to my audience, and uh, I think they're gonna look forward to it. I think they're gonna enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:55

That's awesome. What can uh people expect from your podcast? What are you trying to convey with what you're doing?

SPEAKER_06: 2:01

Well, the main thing is legal knowledge. So we are a legal podcast. We tell officers what they can and cannot do. Um, and we also tell them the why so they can start thinking and answering their own questions. Uh, but yeah, but uh, but I also want to, you know, help my beloved profession. And I want to bring good people on like yourself, other people that can basically share their vision for law enforcement, how we we can improve. Uh, I think we all can agree that law enforcement is is not a perfect profession, no profession is. Uh, you know, doctors get it wrong often, uh, but we need to uh basically improve.

SPEAKER_01: 2:37

Uh now, can you give people that may not know who you are a little bit of background uh so they can buy into if you're talking shit or if you know what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_06: 2:46

So I started, I like to say I started law enforcement as a reserve. Uh that's not real experience, but it was something um back in 1999. I was actually going to Harvard University. So I was kind of a weird kid. I was going to Harvard, uh, but I had no money. So I was I was pretty poor and I needed something to do at night, and I had no friends because you know who wants to hang out with a poor kid at Harvard? Um, and so they got to buy all your stuff for you. 100%. So yeah, I can't buy around the drinks, right? And uh I was uh reserve, did no real police work, went back to my hometown of Las Vegas, Nevada, not New Mexico, and became a trooper. Uh spent most of my career as a sergeant, mostly in Las Vegas. I also worked in a small uh municipality of about 42 sworn called Elko, Nevada. Um, and then I decided to retire a little early, go to law school. I went to Gonzaga, uh, graduated top of my class. Only reason I say that is because I really worked hard to really know what I'm talking about. And I am a uh my my my practice is focused entirely on expert witness and also uh helping cops get it right every time. That's in fact uh that's our company motto is get it right every time.

SPEAKER_01: 3:58

I like it. I like it. We discussed uh today when we'll give people a little teaser. We kind of honed in on how you and I we we really we really lean into the fact that we are not an echo chamber for cops. If you're a cop and you just want to hear that you're attaboys and you did a good job, and oh, I can see why you know we're here to call you out, tell you what you screwed up on and how to fix it.

SPEAKER_06: 4:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 4:19

Yeah, so yeah, um that's what I like to see what you got going on.

SPEAKER_06: 4:23

No, 100%. I mean, and and also a lot of times we like I'll we'll view videos, right? Maybe we'll have one tonight, but we'll we'll look at a video, and you know we don't know everything. There's there's probably something about that video we just don't know. However, we're not afraid to just say, look, based on what we see here, we have a problem. Based on what we see here, we have a problem. And I think there's a lot of there's a lot, even if we're wrong, there's still value in saying if the facts were the way we saw them, this is why it would be a problem. And usually there is some issue in the video, otherwise, um, we probably wouldn't be talking about it.

SPEAKER_01: 4:57

Yeah. Um, if you give me one second, I am trying to I'm trying to get my Instagram. For some reason, the Instagram did not want to jump on. It's not connecting.

SPEAKER_06: 5:12

Not that it's a not that it's a big yeah, but it'd be nice to have it.

SPEAKER_01: 5:17

Yeah, I mean, I pay for it, so I mean, I might as well get that crap on there. Yeah. So I am just copying and pasting, making sure that the key is right. And I'm going to have everybody stand by. Okay, so we'll see. We'll see if it it logs us in there. Um, one thing I do want to show tonight is um I ran across a man on Instagram. Uh he goes by Hank Radio. And I offered him to be on tonight. It was kind of last minute, so I understand if he couldn't make it, um send him the link. But he posted a video and I responded. I'm uh I'm I'm not gonna put any bias out there. So I'm gonna I'm gonna show you what I saw and then what I responded, and he responded so you guys can see. And then uh we'll go from there. Let me share the screen. I'm a one-man team tonight, y'all. Oh, I hear Trey trying to get in.

SPEAKER_06: 6:16

Through the back door?

SPEAKER_01: 6:18

Yeah, yeah, I hear, I hear him. Oh uh there he is. Better late than never, rookie. God dang. And he can't even hear us. Trey.

SPEAKER_06: 6:32

Do you think the young guys would have their tech down?

SPEAKER_01: 6:34

You would think. You would think. Worthless. Worthless child. We'll see. I'm gonna give him a second, see if he can figure his stuff out.

SPEAKER_06: 6:45

I'm sure he will.

SPEAKER_01: 6:46

Um, but anyway, I'll kind of give you the background. Uh, in this video, the cops were called uh on a dad and his two kids playing out on the ice. Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 6:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 6:58

So um let me. I don't want to butcher anything. So I'm just gonna hit play. Trey, can you hear me?

SPEAKER_06: 7:08

Yeah, I can hear you now.

SPEAKER_01: 7:10

Hey, there's the kid.

SPEAKER_06: 7:12

There he is.

SPEAKER_01: 7:13

You would think a youngster like you, young Thundercat, would have his shit together when it comes to tech.

SPEAKER_05: 7:19

I spent a minute.

SPEAKER_01: 7:20

Damn, bro. I get I said I got the studio open. I did an hour in advance, and I did that specifically knowing you always have problems.

SPEAKER_05: 7:30

Hey. I spent a minute, man. I ain't I ain't been on, you know, I ain't been behind the camera a minute.

SPEAKER_01: 7:37

All right. So let me kind of give you the background before we jump into this. Um, I had a I had a little back and forth with a guy on Instagram. I offered him to be on the show tonight, but it was kind of last minute, so I understand if he couldn't make it. Um, but I'm still even after we discussed this, if he wants to jump on at a later time, perfectly okay with that so he can tell his side. But um I'm gonna show you exactly what I talked about first, uh, and but I'm gonna show the video. So let me go here. Um, let me make sure you guys got sound.

SPEAKER_07: 8:10

Okay. Look at this. Oh well, one of the stupidest things I've seen. You got four cops here. You have an adult with his kids on the ice, refusing to get off the ice. He's got his kids on there. What a freaking idiot. And there's a cat just going away. Not being able to do a thing. It could be the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01: 9:10

Okay, so um, I'm gonna I'm gonna well okay. Let me we'll read the comments. I'll show you what what I said, what this this fella said.

SPEAKER_02: 9:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 9:23

Um and again, doesn't mean that I'm right. I'm I'm gonna put that out there. Doesn't make me right. I'm just gonna tell you what I said because this is what I saw from what we see in the video. I said, cop here, stop weaponizing us because you don't understand parenting rights or the constitution. This isn't against the law. You obviously don't know what it's like growing up in a frozen state. I'm a Michigan native, grew up ice fishing. Uh now, if the cops end up having to use force, you'd get them villainized, all for what? Being on a frozen pond. If they were alone, maybe you'd have something. So if the kids were out there alone. Uh they were with dad. Shake my head. You make our jobs much harder than it needs to be. Do better. I don't find that crazy. And uh he says, I didn't call the cops, they were already there. In my house, the police are our friends. That's good. So do what most cops I know do. Find out the whole story before you s you say anything. Before you are indeed one of those cops who deserve to be villainized, and you're right. We don't know what it's like to live in a frozen state in the water that is 10 feet deep near the dock and 20 feet deep where the kids were running. If the lake wasn't private property, they would have been pulled off. So please, it's you who doesn't know what he's talking about. Okay. Um and there's a in the comments, there's a part where he says he wasn't the one that called the cops, but he would have been. He would have if the cops weren't already called. So he said he was gonna call the cops. It's like, okay. Said, uh, you didn't call the cops, but you said you were going to, but someone beat you to it. If I were you, just take the L and admit you got this one wrong. Stop doubling down. It's okay. We all screw up. Owning it is our best method to growth. The point isn't that you like cops or are friends with cops. It is that you thought this scenario, this was a scenario that needed cops uh to be involved in the first place. Heaven forbid you just talk to your neighbor and tell him you're concerned. Maybe he can educate you on why the ice was fine. Nah, let's let the cops do it. Then call the dad stupid and post it on social media to shame him. Congrats. All you did was spoil this dad's time bonding with his kids, weaponizing the police, and creating community division in your area, all for what? Playing on the ice. Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 11:48

Um question for you, Eric. But I want to make sure I'm following this along because I'm I'm a little slow. Is the person who is having this conflict with you is he is he a cop? Is he saying he's a cop?

SPEAKER_01: 12:00

Nope.

SPEAKER_06: 12:00

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01: 12:01

Nope, he's saying he's just friends with the police.

SPEAKER_06: 12:03

He's just saying you're weaponizing the police. Okay. I said I said Eric's saying he's weaponizing.

SPEAKER_01: 12:08

I I said by calling the cops on a non-cop issue.

SPEAKER_06: 12:12

This is a non-cop issue. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01: 12:14

Yeah, this is yeah, this is there is nothing, uh, all we're doing is not letting this person pursue their right to their happiness and teach their kids, you know, this type of thing.

SPEAKER_06: 12:26

How to play in the ice game.

SPEAKER_01: 12:27

Yeah. So um he tells me, now you're just being a troll. The police know me and not from me calling them. Those people are not in our community who support my position, and the town watershed manager also called to thank me. I'm glad you're not in this area, or even an active, or even active for that matter. So he thinks I'm not an active cop, uh, because your assumptive nature is not what we need in law enforcement. Okay, I don't know what I assumed, um, but all right, fair enough. Uh, your assumptive nature is not what we need in law enforcement. In fact, that it's even more dangerous to have your unfounded opinion form a conclusion rather than investigate objectively and fairly. So stay on your little podcast with your opinion because it is belongs there instead of the streets with the real cops. Keep grinding, and one day you'll get all your reels combined to reach 3.5 million views. Like the real one. Like the like this one reel did. Thanks to the truth. So I guess he thinks they care about the oh, he's on, he's on, he's on. Hey, look, he joined.

SPEAKER_06: 13:34

Oh, snap.

SPEAKER_01: 13:35

There he is.

SPEAKER_06: 13:36

There he is.

SPEAKER_01: 13:36

There's the man, the myth, the legend. We were just talking about you, sir. Gentlemen, let me uh pleasure. Let me stop sharing this.

SPEAKER_05: 13:43

What up, man? What up?

SPEAKER_01: 13:45

So um, first, David, I'm Eric Levine. I'm the one that we we're going back and forth. I got with me Anthony Bandiero. Um, he is a former law enforcement, he is also uh an attorney, um, and he teaches cops how not to violate people's rights and uh search and seizure and things like that. And then I got what we call the kid, the rookie Trey Mosley over here. He is a cop out in uh California, but he is uh what are you? Are you on your second year now, Trey?

SPEAKER_05: 14:15

No, I'm almost at I'm basically a four.

SPEAKER_01: 14:18

I knew I I cut you short just because I learned a bunch of people. What's funny? We got a peanut at my department too.

SPEAKER_07: 14:29

Um peanuts everywhere.

SPEAKER_01: 14:30

So uh David, I just gave them the run. I what I was gonna do is I I showed them the video.

SPEAKER_07: 14:36

I got the channel, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 14:38

Okay, I showed them the video, um, and then I just read the comments. We were getting through it, and then I was gonna let them kind of like say what they want to say, but because I wasn't sure if you're gonna join tonight. Either way, then everybody would have the background, but we'll we'll start this from the beginning. So I I came in with my opinion, as you said in the thing that I came in with my opinion. My opinion is um, because one of the things we do on the podcast here is we call out police. This isn't an echo chamber for cops.

SPEAKER_07: 15:07

When we're all in law enforcement, so uh we're trying to understand that you that you for for people that you know misuse the police or weaponize the police or or frivolous calls or things that my ex-wife did. Yeah, I got you.

SPEAKER_01: 15:20

Yeah, a very a very common thing that we um have on here is First Amendment auditors, and people will call the cops on them, even though they're on a public sidewalk, they're not violating anybody's rights, they're not breaking any laws, and people will use the cops to kind of weaponize them. Um, and when I say weaponize people for for those listening, I don't mean like violence necessarily, but there's a potential. Anytime the cops show up, there is a potential for violence.

SPEAKER_07: 15:48

Uh well that you're so the the laws there to protect or rep weaponize, right? And people will weaponize the cops for their own gain, for whatever. And a lot of times the cops are in a situation where, as I understand it, um, you know, if we get a call, we have to respond, you know, and and they are they're they're not really necessarily taken aside, but but gathering facts as they as they see, you know. Yeah, you know, so so the so the the the expectation is you know, if if somebody's being called the cops on, you know, so if I'm calling the cops, I'm gonna say, hey, I'm reporting this tribe, I want you to see what I see, right? And somebody that's being that's that the that the um um that's being called the cops on is expected for the law enforcement to show up with an objective opinion. You know, so what is there, what is this, what what what so what what's really happening here called because anybody can call in. Yeah, right. Sorry, Anthony, what kind of attorney are you?

SPEAKER_06: 16:46

Uh constitutional law. So crimin criminal law, but constitutional law. So my expertise is the the Fourth Amendment, the First Amendment, the Fifth Amendment, and and I I I dabble in the Third Amendment, but that's not a lot of action these days.

SPEAKER_01: 16:58

Hasn't been a lot of action since like what? 1700. I mean, um, yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 17:04

Um well from my position, uh, and I have a 13-year-old boy, and ever since he can speak, my position is uh the police are our friends, you know, and we always go up to the say, you know, the police, you know, and and whenever we see one, you know, thank you for what you're doing. And we ever since he was a boy was has always done that. So in our house, you know, the the police are not the enemy, they're not anybody to be feared. They are people that uh are here, our friends and are here to protect us. And if they give us directions, do what they say.

SPEAKER_01: 17:37

Right. Um I don't know why I switched around here, but but I I just did it for I just realized you were mirrored. I couldn't read your uh I see you got a Van Halen poster there, so I was like that was my first concert in 1988. That's pretty cool. Nice, that's pretty cool. And yeah, even born. Shut up, Trey.

SPEAKER_07: 17:55

The kid, right?

SPEAKER_01: 17:55

Yeah, the kid. Yeah, that way. Um so David, I just wanted to make sure you knew first and foremost, we do this all the time with our podcast when people have a disagreement. I hate the texting back and forth on comments because it it loses a lot of context. And I know if you and I sit here and talk, the tone isn't sound the same as when we're on there.

SPEAKER_07: 18:18

No, I mean the trolls carry the day, right? Yeah, yes. That's that's what the sexy part is. Even you know, you it can be shown in there, can be an another um person on the ice here shown, and then there can oh, isn't this cool? And then you'll have just trolls disagreeing. Oh, for sure. So those trolls, even though they may be the the majority, they're just disagreeing with what they're seeing. You know, and I mean it could have been somebody could have shown the same video without me talking into it, and and and without me commenting on it, and said, and somebody could have said those that parent is a freaking idiot, and then you know, there could have been the trolls going, Yeah, how dumb is that, and all that, and that would have been the majority, right? Yeah, so so and and that's what I learned because this is the the first time ever, yeah, that it's gone to this 3.8 million views. I'm like, holy yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 19:17

I had one go to like 20 million and it went to like I don't know, five million in the first 24 hours, and I was like, what the fuck? Where did this go?

SPEAKER_07: 19:26

So so so to that end, um I was out of line for calling you out on that. I'll say that, you know, you know, probably because that's that was one of the that was one of the, you know, to your point, it's really easy to you know go keyboard warrior when it's on the keyboard, you know. Now we're here face to face. So, you know, since since I, you know, since when I went in that unfounded direction, you know, uh I will now retract that publicly on your and say that that I don't know shit about going viral and and you gotta wake up. No worries.

SPEAKER_01: 20:01

No worries. I just wanted you to know that it my opinion was actually coming from a lot of experience. One, um the policing side, two, being in a in a winter, I grew up in Michigan. I really did. As you can see, my Michigan, I'm in Texas now. I got away from the the the cold. Um, but uh growing up as an ice fisherman and stuff like that, and seeing what I saw, I was like, oh my God, like some of my best memories are doing exactly that. And so um to go to go back, I can you tell the story from your perspective so they we can get a fully unfiltered version.

SPEAKER_07: 20:36

Sure. Um, so I live in Western Virginia, and I live on a uh Lake Thoreau, which is a 40-acre lake, you know, not anything like the lakes in Michigan. It's it's it's a it's a really a big pond.

SPEAKER_01: 20:48

So that's a really that's a real lake. Okay, that's what I was wondering, because it looked like a pond to me.

SPEAKER_07: 20:53

I was like, well, yeah, and that's why I got pissed off at you because you because you be because like all this context wasn't there. Now maybe I didn't share it, but I didn't know that it was gonna go all the way to the freaking country, you know. It was just within my little world here, you know, and and the people within my little world, you know, have a better understanding. Um, so but yeah, the the lake is 40 acres, and and some areas it goes 40 feet deep, and where right at the dock's edge, uh that's 10 feet to start, you know, because there's people go underneath the dock, right? Yeah. Um so that's 10 feet to start, you know. So don't know where where the edge is, is underneath there. And and in some areas it goes to to 40 feet. So where you saw the kids running out, that's easily 20 to 25 feet deep, you know, right there. Okay. So that's that's the layout of of the lake. And and in this climate, I've I've lived in I've lived in rested for 40 years, and on particularly on this particular lake for 14 years. And I can count on one hand how many times it's frozen over. So we don't, and and when I say, I mean, we living here, we don't know how this lake reacts to being frozen. We don't know the characteristics of what freezes first. We don't know, we don't know how, you know, what and and right now to the second, it's in in the middle of the lake, it's it's not frozen over. I mean, there's it's there's water in the middle that you can see, you know, so it's not completely frozen over, it's it's still open and right.

SPEAKER_01: 22:33

So You mean out in the open water? Correct. Not here in this little peninsula.

SPEAKER_07: 22:37

Correct.

SPEAKER_01: 22:38

Okay, because it it kind of looks like it it's uh almost like a cul-de-sac of the water, like a cove, right?

SPEAKER_07: 22:43

Yep, yeah, yeah, and it is, and there's lots of coves. There's like there's six coves uh along this along this body of water. So yeah, in the middle it is open, you know, and it's froze frozen in the coves.

SPEAKER_02: 22:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_07: 22:54

We're we don't have, I mean, when when you have a I I'm of the assumption that when you have a body of water like that, that and it you you you you should know how it breathes, how it feels, how it lives. And then when it freezes, there's different characteristics of of how the water moves underneath, how deeply it can freeze, is it gonna it'll freeze on the edges. And believe me, from those from those comments, I got a lot of education from that because that's just not anything I pay attention to. That's not anything anybody in the community pay attention pays attention to. So even the watershed managers of this town come out um saying, you know, just in case it freezes, do not, just don't. There's just no thing, such thing as safe ice. Somebody I put another reel out there, I didn't get quite as many views, but somebody slid out a picnic table uh uh uh in the middle of the, you know, which is okay. Okay, yeah, it's funny. Yeah, it is. I'm gonna say it's funny. But you know, even the watershed guy from the from he was from Missouri, uh, and he said, I'm from Missouri, and there's no such thing as safe ice, you know. So yeah, if you grew up in Michigan or Alaska or upstate New York, I mean, you know, you have a community there that knows about it, knows what to look for, and knows what to be careful about, and knows what it's like, and and can almost get another sense of what the lake is doing when you see it, you know, or any other kind of frozen body of water, you know, and and here we just don't. We don't have it. And it and it's just the number one rule in my house that my boys don't ever go on that ice. Just don't. Yeah, you know, it's it's just yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 24:31

If you if you're not if if you didn't grow up around it and you don't know it, yeah, that's a that's that's good advice. I'm with you on that.

SPEAKER_07: 24:37

Yeah, because we just don't know so so then um whenever I see anybody out there, whenever I see anybody out there, which isn't often, but you know, when I do, I'm like, get off the ice, you know, and get off and you know, and and they do, they get off because they know. Um in this particular instance, um, I came downstairs and I saw people on the and I didn't have my contacts in, all right. So I needed to say I'm nearsighted. Uh, I didn't have my contacts in, and um, I saw the the look what it looks like to be the dad on the ice, and I saw some figures, figures in it which turned out to be the cops uh over there on the dock talking to them. And so I just opened up the door and says, get off the ice, get off the ice, get off the ice. And one of the main things I I I kind of you know am so hard at is I don't want to freeze my ass off when I gotta jump in to save you. You know, and and I'm um I'm just not gonna you know look and you'll help help. I'm gonna do something, you know. Yeah, um, so so I'm yelling, get off the ice, and I see these figures coming in as I get closer, they're the cops. And and they say, Will you shut up and just let us do our job? And I said, I'm sorry, I didn't know I didn't realize you were here.

SPEAKER_01: 26:01

I didn't know you'd hear the contacts failed you. You needed you needed the vision.

SPEAKER_07: 26:06

Big time.

SPEAKER_01: 26:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 26:07

Oh, yeah, big time. But but you know, to to be honest, you know, it'd be really easy for me to to say no, it wouldn't have been me. But but I was very open saying that the cops weren't there, I would have called the cops. Um you uh I would have called the cops because of all those reasons. Now, now, number one, that dock that's there, you may not have been able to see it because it's covered in snow. Uh, that's private property. That's our neighborhood, that's our neighborhood's dock.

SPEAKER_02: 26:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_07: 26:36

Now a Karen would say anybody, even in the summertime, get off the dock. We don't do that.

SPEAKER_02: 26:42

Right.

SPEAKER_07: 26:42

Right? We enjoy the dock. Just don't mess it up, you know? Enjoy the dock and don't don't be a problem, you know. If you're a problem, that's a different story, but but you know, go and enjoy the dock isn't it's a nice place to live. The lake in itself belongs to the resting association, which is the the which is the governing entity of the town.

SPEAKER_01: 27:05

Okay. So the so the waterway is public then?

SPEAKER_07: 27:09

No, it's private property. The waterway itself is no, it belongs to the rest of the association. Yeah, the lake, it's man-made, and it belongs to the rest of the yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:22

That's interesting. I've never heard of that.

SPEAKER_07: 27:24

Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, Reston's only it was formed in the 60s, so it's a newer town.

SPEAKER_06: 27:29

Okay. But but you said it said it belongs. But it but the city manages it? It it's it's the rest of the rest of the association is the governing entity of the But how can then how can it be private property if it's owned by the ultimately by the government?

SPEAKER_01: 27:44

Yeah, that's what I was wondering.

SPEAKER_07: 27:45

How can it be private?

SPEAKER_06: 27:47

Yeah, how can it be private property? Go ahead.

SPEAKER_07: 27:50

It's not a government, it's uh the wrestling association is a corporation.

SPEAKER_06: 30:49

But I thought you said it's managed by the city, though.

SPEAKER_07: 30:51

Okay, maybe I'm no no no no no it's private property. Resident Association is the governing entity.

SPEAKER_01: 30:59

What's the name of the lake?

SPEAKER_07: 31:01

Lake Thoreau.

SPEAKER_01: 31:02

Thoreau, okay.

SPEAKER_07: 31:03

Thoreau. Like it's named, it was named after Henry David Thoreau.

SPEAKER_06: 31:06

Gotcha. But do we know that this guy does not belong in that community? I mean, can is there a presumption that he actually lives there too? He can enjoy that lake.

SPEAKER_07: 31:14

Uh I mean, should there be a presumption?

SPEAKER_06: 31:19

Yeah, there it should be a presumption. I mean, you're gonna presume that just because he's he's on he means he's on the lake, you're gonna presume that he's a trespasser or no.

SPEAKER_07: 31:27

Um, I wasn't presuming he was a trespasser, I was presuming he was a dumbass because he had his kids on the lake.

SPEAKER_06: 31:32

Well, being dumb is not illegal.

SPEAKER_07: 31:34

I'm just saying being dumb is not illegal, but neither is yelling at them and didn't get off a lake either, you know, and it wasn't really the uh the legal child child endangerment could be.

SPEAKER_06: 31:43

If if you can articulate it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 31:45

So so so what I what I think what I think, Dave, is uh I think that you you voiced your concern, which is cool. Like that's what a citizen's supposed to do. And I think that uh you wanted the cops to share that same opinion that you did, which again is fair. Like that's why people call, because they want the cop essentially they want the cops to side with them. That's normal, bro. Even when I if I call the police, I would want the same thing. And then, like you said, though, it's it's our job as police officers to come with the objective opinion and an unbiased opinion at that. And I just think that the cops' opinion was was altered from yours, and that caused your frustration.

SPEAKER_07: 32:21

Well, no, but no, because yet, but you didn't, and and this was my this is my point with you, Eric, is because there's a lot of assumptions made without knowing the whole story. So that's that was because the comments that the comments that you had made was was all these things that just needed clarification, you know, and and that was my that was my that that was my my particular beef of you. So the the the the cops the cops that come they come back and says we're trying to get them off, but it's private property.

SPEAKER_01: 32:55

Even if it was public, they can't make them leave.

SPEAKER_05: 32:58

Yeah, they can't make so when it's if it's private property in terms of if even if it even if it is private property and there's a danger element, like if we believe unbiasedly that this can be a danger, we can still, at least where I'm at, we can enforce that and say, hey, dude, this is a danger, get off the ice in terms of like a you could take the mental health route saying that it's community, yeah, community caretaking. You can do that, yeah, yeah. And um, but they probably didn't see that element, so then they went and tried to do the trespassing element, but someone probably has to trust back them, trespass them because it is like you're saying a private property.

SPEAKER_07: 33:34

Well then to for a trespass element, then the the the or like a wrestler association would have to file complaint. Exactly exactly, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06: 33:43

Right. You you would need an Asian community exactly.

SPEAKER_05: 33:46

If especially if the community caretaking wasn't an option, like if they evaluated, like ah, we don't really got that element here, then the only other way to do something, which would be the trespassing route, but clearly that don't work.

SPEAKER_07: 33:58

So the idea wasn't to arrest anybody. The idea wasn't to the the the idea the behind my behind my action wasn't to you know you know put anybody in jail or safety concern for you.

SPEAKER_05: 34:13

It was a safety concern. You what you weren't you weren't trying to get anybody in trouble, you were worried about the safety, right?

SPEAKER_07: 34:18

And I didn't want anybody to get in trouble, I just wanted to get in the healthy nice.

SPEAKER_05: 34:21

Yeah, and I bro I'm instead from California, I would never do that shit ever. Yeah, I literally so if I would have came, I would have been like, yeah, these people are tripping, but if I can't legally have the authority to do anything about it, then my opinion is irrelevant. Like that's nothing I can do.

SPEAKER_07: 34:35

So which brings which brings up a good which brings up a point, then, you know, and then I I guess this is where the line could be blurred. Where is if you're not if in this particular case, if you're not calling them for breaking the law, are you calling them to scare them into getting off the ice? Because a lot of times if the cops show up, there there's a good chance that somebody will say there's a good chance that somebody will say, Okay, all right, yeah, I'll I don't I don't want any trouble. I mean, rare would it be with somebody to stand their ground and says, No, I'm not getting off the ice, even with my two kids here.

SPEAKER_01: 35:07

Yeah, 99% of the time, you're right. Uh-huh. Yeah, that we'll do your scale.

SPEAKER_07: 35:11

Yeah, so so so this this we're I mean it it it wasn't designed with with the intention of um uh infringing on anybody's rights, at least not knowingly. You know, and and and and not and just because you don't know about it doesn't make it illegal, right? Anthony? Correct. You know, you look you can't you can't claim um um ignorance.

SPEAKER_06: 35:38

Yeah, here's here's my viewpoints on it as the you know, as my my my legal mind here. Number one is that I I think we've already hashed out that in order to trespass somebody, you have to have uh an agent. You wouldn't be the agent, it would have to be somebody from the HOA or whatever this corporate this business corporation, they would have to be like, you're not allowed here. Um they probably I'm not sure if they would do that anyway, because the person presumpty lives in this area, but let's presume that they don't and they want them out of there. But the next thing, I think the one thing that Eric spoke about before you joined is okay, even if we're gonna we're gonna trespass this person, you know, you you gotta weigh the consequences here. Um, every law has discretion except domestic violence in most states, right? Even, you know, I'm just saying, like, there are a lot of calls for service where the cops are gonna say, even though I'm telling you to get off the ice, the guy's like, no, this is ridiculous. I live here or whatever. It's dangerous, or I don't, you know, it's the guy, these kids there. Um, there there are a lot of times when the cops are gonna walk away because it's not worth it. You're gonna go, you're gonna go on on ice with this guy and get into a use of force, end up potentially tasing him, shooting him, you going into the ice. But let me make sure one thing clear too, David. I would not be on that ice, okay? I actually think that you are correct here that it's dangerous to be on that ice, especially with kids. Maybe I would put myself at risk, probably not, but I wouldn't put my kids at risk. Not in that environment. You know, this is Virginia, this is not Michigan, this is not Alaska, like you said, and and you know, but um, but I think at the end of the day, from what I see here, from what I'm hearing from you, I think the right thing is those four cops did the right thing by just walking.

SPEAKER_07: 37:11

Oh clearly, clearly. I mean, as at some point, and and and I agree, I wasn't and and you know, and at that point from from my standpoint, it was like what can I do? You know, so what can I do? And the other side, but but the uh so now the other side of all this is it is now um in the common side, I was uh I was uh this was approached by a cop which didn't seem to have an objective opinion. And that's that's what I'm like, well, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 37:41

It depends on on how you're looking at it. So from our discussion that we've had so far and and from the facts that you've told us and updated us with, I I still don't see the issue with what I'm talking about. My point is people call the cops in instances that the cops aren't necessary. For me, there was nothing illegal happening. There's just shit that made people uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_07: 38:03

And now we're calling the case after this now. Were the were the were the cops weaponized?

SPEAKER_01: 38:08

Yes. 100% 100%. You you called the cops in an instance that it's not a cops. It's not it's not what not you.

SPEAKER_07: 38:17

I I'm just saying you didn't call me. You you said I called the cops, you know, which was inaccurate.

SPEAKER_01: 38:24

Did I say you called him?

SPEAKER_07: 38:25

I I think in the comments you said I called him, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 38:27

I I thought I said that you you were you said you would have called himself.

SPEAKER_07: 38:31

But you said you would I would have called him, but you're telling, but so see, see here, here, here was my so now here here's the thing with you. So my my problem with how I was was approached with on that thread by a cop was and I don't mean cop in a in a derogatory term.

SPEAKER_01: 38:49

Oh no, you're good, brother. We we call each other pigs on here. You're you're good, I promise you.

SPEAKER_07: 38:53

Yeah, well you can do that. That's like that's like that's like yeah, here yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 38:58

Here's precisely what I said. I said, cop here, stop weaponizing us because you don't understand parenting rights or the constitution. Right now, that could have fallen under the assumption that I was saying you call the cops, that's not what I was trying to do. This was more of a broad statement saying that this is the problem that we're having is people are using the police in instances that they don't need to. We're being used as the front to free people's voices that they're too afraid to go do themselves.

SPEAKER_07: 39:25

Okay, now go to the next comment.

SPEAKER_01: 39:27

Okay, uh, your comment?

SPEAKER_07: 39:28

No, your com the next comment that you made.

SPEAKER_01: 39:31

Okay. Um I said you didn't call the cops, but you said you were going to, or someone beat you to it. Okay, okay. If if I were you, just take the I'll admit that uh let me see where I I fucking click. Damn it. Uh oh, it meant you got this one wrong. Stop doubling down, it's okay. We all screw up owning it is the best method for growth. The point isn't that you like cops or that you're friends with cops, is that you thought this was a scenario that cops were needed. So this is where I'm coming back on this that um thinking this is a scenario where cops are necessary. This is what I meant by weaponizing, not that uh you called them or you didn't call them, it's just the fact the cops were called to begin with.

unknown: 40:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 40:10

Because it is one mess up, one slip of this guy saying the wrong thing now, and all of a sudden we get into a use of force. And I'm like, damn, now we're in a use of force all because what somebody called the cops and something that wasn't necessary for police.

SPEAKER_07: 40:26

So if if a cop came, if a cop went, if one of those guys said, you know what, you're not supposed to be a private property, and you get a step outside of that, then we have a blown-up situation. Possibly, if we're if we're claiming it's could have it could have been that it it could have been that so the the cops were were were were smart, we're smart in that regard.

SPEAKER_01: 40:45

And no, no, I I'm I'm I to me because we They probably didn't want to get on the ice either. Yeah, from what we can hear and what we can see by the behavior based on my training experience, these cops got there and goes, Hey, hey man, you you're not doing anything that we can enforce. We just had to come out here and just kind of tell you the risk, I guess. Um, and and now we've I I can't I'm not I'm not gonna make too many assumptions about resting, but I'm thinking it's not the busiest town for crime because four officers arrived for this.

SPEAKER_07: 41:13

It's not. Um it's it it I mean the crime rate, I mean the the safety rate rather is 90 percent.

SPEAKER_01: 41:20

Yeah, see that's awesome. So I know, right?

SPEAKER_07: 41:24

We're we're 20 miles outside of DC.

SPEAKER_01: 41:27

Oh, that's good. I mean, that's a good crime rate for where you're at.

SPEAKER_05: 41:30

Yeah, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 41:31

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_05: 41:32

Hey, but what I'll say though, David, uh in my opinion, um, I don't when I when I think of like weapon weaponizing the police, I think of situations where people call because they they don't know how to parent their kids and they're like scare my kids straight because they're not listening to me.

SPEAKER_02: 41:47

Yep, that's another one too.

SPEAKER_05: 41:49

I think that's more of a reason. I I disagree with Eric a little bit. I don't I don't think you were weaponizing the police in this situation because I think you genuinely called you called for a safety concern, which is a valid one, bro. Like you didn't I would have called for a safety concern.

SPEAKER_01: 42:02

He would have, yeah. Let's stop saying that he called it.

SPEAKER_07: 42:05

I'm owning that.

SPEAKER_01: 42:06

Set the record straight. David did not call that.

SPEAKER_07: 42:09

Yeah, I'm owning that, you know. But but there's another concept where where the community was divided, you know, and and the the the community here is is pretty pretty united in saying that you know nobody should be on that ice, you know, yeah, for all the reasons I stated in the beginning of all.

SPEAKER_05: 42:27

So and I think I think you have that in mind because you have a common idea. No, because and we pay Disneyland tickets too. But I think I think the idea of you and a lot of your community community members feel that way, that triggered you to call that for why on top like why you would have called the police. It's a safety concern, bro. Like, that's why I don't think you're weaponizing the police. I think that if now that you're educating and you're still doing that shit, then I believe now you're weaponizing the police because you know now, bro. Like, it's different if you didn't know. I give I give you the pass on that. But same thing that when like people are outside filming, like like Eric said, we we we get called for auditors all the time, and people filming outside of workplaces, and people call like, hey, this person can't film, and we're like, they actually can, bro. And then if they're still calling after that, now you're trying to use us as bullies to fulfill your agenda, and that's what Eric is talking about.

SPEAKER_07: 43:17

If you had any idea how many times I had to apologize to the police for the times my ex-wife would call on me, yeah, we see that a lot too.

SPEAKER_01: 43:28

That's a big one.

SPEAKER_07: 43:29

And and I say, you know what, I'm sorry, you know, I know you got better things to do. Yep, you know, and you know, that's how I got to know a lot of them. You know, but but no, I I've a lot of people say I'm gonna call the police and I'm that's what I heard when I call the police and I'm saying go ahead. You know, it it but you know but the last thing that I want to do is is is you know the last thing I want to do is weaponize the priest. So I mean my my criminal lawyer will will will advise against that, you know. And he has defended me against that. There's been weaponization against me, and we've had to go to court, you know, uh, and and say, and that's where I learned that from, you know, that it's this is this is a the this is a shield or a sword, and you were using it as a sword, you know, and and so so those things are those things are are are are are important to us, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 44:19

Yeah um Anthony, you got something? You look like you were about to talk there, brother.

SPEAKER_06: 44:23

No, okay no, not really.

unknown: 44:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 44:25

I was gonna I was gonna make a joke, but it's it's past that point now.

SPEAKER_01: 44:28

Yeah, you're joking.

SPEAKER_05: 44:30

Whoever said I ain't never seen the snow, I actually live in the Midwest for five years.

SPEAKER_01: 44:34

So oh, watch out.

SPEAKER_07: 44:37

So so so I'll I mean, but but I'll say I'll I'll I mean I'll I'll say here, you know, for I I like most most of the most cops that I've come across um uh will will come up on a situation and be objective. You know, be objective and say that okay, we got this call, you know, and and because and you know, and because you that's what you're trained to do. I mean you're well I don't know what you're trained to do, but I but I think you're I I think I I've seen enough where you at least do that. Okay, what's going on? What's this, what's this, you know, and then and then figure it out. So it it didn't seem that way from you, Eric. No, that's what I got bent about. You know, but but but but but uh but I'll I'll go on on the air right now, and and and that doesn't mean that I had to say, you know, they had to talk about your your millions of I guess and no worries.

SPEAKER_01: 45:29

That that was the furthest thing from my mind. Yeah. My concern, my big concern was one that you you were at the end calling them idiots. And I'm like, hey man, I I grew up like this. Like, this isn't that big a deal. And two, the point that I was trying to convey, and this is where tech sucks. This is why I wanted to have it on here, is because I still stand behind what I'm saying is that this is not an instance to call the cops. This is a uh to me, is a waste of resources. And me personally, if I have our dispatch, and this is what makes the difference between a city with a lot of crime versus a city that doesn't. Um, we have over a million calls a year where I'm at. So it's a one of the top ten largest agencies in the nation. I won't mention it on here. I will talk, I'll tell you offline.

SPEAKER_07: 46:15

Um, but um so I think uh geography matters, right? Um geography matters if you're living in a climate where those are common, where people know about it. That's number one. And then and then you know, also if you know if if you really do have better things to do, you know, you really do have to re you really do have to answer this call about real shit happening, you know. Not not for a kitten in the tree.

SPEAKER_01: 46:39

Right. Um, but part of the I gotta say something.

SPEAKER_06: 46:43

Well, because I I live in a I live in a pretty bougie area too. I live in you know, Cordelaine, Idaho. Uh course you do, lawyer. Yeah, of course, you know. You gotta have you gotta have the guns. I can't I can't go to Virginia with their gun laws. I mean, you know, I'll be arrested. Just in but I just I I just want to say that yeah, well no no they're passing a law right now, they're working on it to ban uh ARC. Yeah, but the only thing I want to say is is I live in a pretty bougie area too. And I and I if I had the cops called on me for this incident, I'd be actually pretty upset too. Like, why are you coming out here? Like it's it's it's a it's almost comes off as a form of harassment. Now, I'm not saying that's totally true because up here we do have ice overs and people do ice fish out here, but I but if if we're talking about something that's like a nanny issue, like don't be my nanny. I don't I'm not looking to be nanny about my government. This to me comes off a little nanny-ish to me. It's like I would be a little like, I know you got this call for service, but you should probably just let it go. It's like it's like having a dog off-leash. Like some is that real? I don't know, but dog off leash is illegal, but the point is I that's illegal, but yeah. But I but you look, I was in Cal. I was actually in uh Carlsbad, right? And you know, a lot of people go to this beach that I stay at, uh, and and people have the dogs off the leash all the time. And most people do not care unless you have an aggressive dog. But then the the you know, the people call the cops and like, oh, the dog, there's dogs off leash, but you go out there and just friendly dogs, keep it next to their owner. And I just I just I don't know. It's like you're you're you're having this cop with the badge and a gun and nanny in you, like a nanny. Why can't you just you know can I just like why can't you just handle it like you handle it? Like just talk to the dude and say, hey, it's not safe, dude. Like your kids are in danger. The the ice is not made for that, and then the guy should, you know, but ultimately, if he doesn't want to listen to you, then it it's the cops, that's a heavy, that's that's an instrument. That's a you know, and I'm just saying, like I if I was on the receiving end, I wouldn't be happy either because I don't want my government to give me a lecture about how to live my life on something that's not illegal.

SPEAKER_07: 48:39

I think I think you guys, I I mean, uh I mean I think I'm hearing from all of you that if you if if knowing the conditions of this lake as it is, as has it freezes as frequently as it does, you you you may think about going there, probably not, but I don't think that any one of you would have your kids on there. And and I think if you do have kids, um it if I I think that it's gotta be very, very tough if if you have a if if you're uh if you're a cop and you know you you wouldn't put your kids on there and you gotta walk away because you have a feeling that it may not be safe.

SPEAKER_05: 49:14

So to be fair, there's a there's a lot of stuff, a lot of the stuff that I go to where I'm like personally like, yo, this is a good idea. I wouldn't be cut out to be a cop. But yeah, that's you gotta put your personal bias aside, dude. Like that's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01: 49:26

Yeah, and and that's kind of the point we're getting to on this is like, man, really, if it's not criminal, and this is the like like Anthony was alluding to is like, man, you we tend to forget, and and cops themselves do this. This is one of the things we try to make other officers realize. You hold an awesome power as a cop that needs to be respected, and that you cannot get callous, you can't get complacent on the power the badge holds. It holds so much power, and cops forget it so easy. Just standing there with like he was saying, in your uniform with your badge, it's a showstopper. And a lot of times, just like you were saying, 99% of the time when the cops show up, most people are like, I'm I'm done.

SPEAKER_06: 50:11

Yeah, that's why it should be used wisely, not for you know, and uh you know, the situation is debatable, but again, it's uh just showing up is a enforcement action, and you got to be careful with that because it could create bad will. Um, and maybe you maybe you received some of that, right? I mean, cops show up and based on the call, right? Your wife and whatever, it's like, hey, based on what you're hearing, really, should you even be here? I mean, really, you got I mean, I I know my my city doesn't have a lot of crime either, but they can just patrol, they don't have to be a nanny for people. I don't know. That's that's just kind of my view, but um, but my my viewpoint on law enforcement is I I believe that cops should I think they they're overextended, they do way too much. They uh I've been when I was a cop, I was called literally to put uh a mom called me, single mom, I get it. Her her kids acting up, won't do the homework. And she literally says, Can you just put handcuffs on him so he so he'll listen to me? And I mean, like, are you crazy? Like maybe right. I mean, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_07: 51:05

Speaking of those Virginia laws that that they're talking about passing, they're talking about having law enforcement's personally liable for any any type of uh uh infractions that you know, so instead of instead of lawsuits happening, instead of going against the town or county, they'll go against the law enforcement personally, which would I think would handcuff them even more.

SPEAKER_06: 51:27

You know, it would be I I'm for those laws, but uh, but I'm for those laws. I believe they should be personalized, but only for those people who vote that way, and then don't go to their call for service. That's the only way I'm actually for those laws, because I want those people to suffer, not have any law enforcement services, not know I'm I'm kind of you you see I'm kind of being facetious here, but these are people who have no idea what it's like to be a cop.

SPEAKER_07: 51:50

Yeah, I you know what the funny thing about it is, is the the recently elected governor was in law enforcement.

SPEAKER_06: 51:57

Oh, really? Well, wasn't she CIA? Yeah, well, well, you do CIA, doesn't that say it all, my friend? Yeah, my dad is CIA, watch it. I get it, but most of those people have they're they're not too true freedom lovers. I mean, let's but um there might be some contamination there.

SPEAKER_07: 52:16

But the point is is uh my dad would be right at home in your room, Anthony.

SPEAKER_06: 52:19

That's what I then good. Then that they're a uh a minority in the CIA. Most of the CIA people that I know uh don't really appreciate freedom like we do.

SPEAKER_01: 52:29

Yeah, and that and and and ultimately, uh David, really truly that that's how I was looking at this call. I was I'm like, damn, you're out there minding your business, not breaking any any laws. You you just out there. It looked like there was some tip-ups out there, honestly. When the kids were going through, I I saw what looked like four tip-ups, which are I didn't look, I mean, so I didn't even know what tip-up is. It's uh it's a fishing device. You you you leave it down there, and when a fish pulls on it, it it automatically sets the hook, and then you just come up and pull the fish out of the water.

SPEAKER_07: 53:02

So I so I that doesn't sound like it's uh living on that sounds like an all seasons thing, not not just with not just with you know ice fishing.

SPEAKER_01: 53:09

Yeah, tip-ups are they're specifically for ice fishing. Yeah, you just set your device up. Um, and uh yeah, that's what it looked like to me. So me again, and and I I'll I'll bring this, I'll I'll close this out. Um my point wasn't wasn't uh that you you specifically called cops because we've established it wasn't you that called the cops. My thing was we've called the police on something that doesn't involve the police, which uh uh increases the potential that something could go wrong, whether it was intentional or not intentional. And and then what what's ultimately gonna happen is the cops, if something did happen, they're gonna come back to the police and say, Why the fuck did you do that off of them being on the ice? And then the people that called and and didn't just like you do, like you yell out the window, get off the ice, like it that's more than what a lot of people do. A lot of people just call the cops, they don't even go out there and talk to them. And I think that's the disservice in communities. That's what I meant by divisiveness. It wasn't that your community specifically is divided, it was because people don't go out and just talk to people anymore. And I'm trying to encourage people to do that. That's that's what I'm getting at. More often than not, when we have these um community uh uh mediation things that like our neighborhood patrol officers will do, we'll have two neighbors that have been beefing and calling on each other over and over and over and over and over and over again. We'll have the officer sit down at a table with both of them in a controlled environment and we'll get it all out there. And then by the end, I would say 99% of the time, everything is squashed because we sat down and talked like you and I are talking right now, and we solved it face to face. Again, I want to make it very clear. I'm not saying you're like this. I'm saying overall, as a cop, this is how we see this. So, not making assumptions. I'm telling you, overall, the tone, this is when wet weaponizing police. This is what I meant by this. This is how it goes. And and then if something does turn bad, this went fine. This probably went how it should go. A cop showed up, they said, We don't have an offense here, bro. It doesn't look safe, but I can't stop you. And they went their merry way.

SPEAKER_07: 55:20

So you know, everybody could have say shoulda, woulda, coulda, you know, and yeah, you know, one of those we just had somebody, you know, drown on but on the Potomac River, you know, a couple days ago, you know, you know, for this, you know. So I mean, if anything would have happened to those kids, I mean, I mean, who would have known? You know, I mean I mean it could have been the other way. But I mean, you always I mean you don't live like that, but um I I can't if if it happens again, and I I can't say I can't say that um if if they don't usually when I when I call get off the ice, they get off the ice. Usually they do that, you know. Very rarely do they have somebody stay there, you know. Um if somebody wouldn't get off the ice, you know, after that, I mean I can't you know if there was kids on there, I would say I would probably call the cops. You know, whether they you call it weaponizing or not, I say I probably I'm with you.

SPEAKER_01: 56:13

If it's just kids, and I even said that if it was just the kids, I'm a hundred percent with you.

SPEAKER_07: 56:18

But the dad was out there, you know, uh a grown a grown ass man. I don't know, I'm on the fence. Maybe I wouldn't, maybe I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01: 56:25

I wouldn't. I'd sit there and videotape and just wait for the show to start.

SPEAKER_07: 56:28

Well, I'm just giving I'm back.

SPEAKER_01: 56:31

I get you. I got you.

SPEAKER_07: 56:32

I mean, you know, it'd be easy for me to say no, I wouldn't even call bullshit.

SPEAKER_01: 56:36

No, I mean I don't know if it wouldn't. If you would have caught him falling through the ice, guaranteed you'd have been over a million views like within 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_06: 56:42

Three point, yeah, I know within 10 minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He would have made the Darwin award.

SPEAKER_01: 56:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06: 56:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 56:49

So okay. So overall, sir, how do you think this went?

SPEAKER_07: 56:54

I think it went great. Uh I I think um I I think uh this is this is something where, like you said, that it's really easy, it it's really easy to uh it's really easy to you know, it really is. And and from you know, from a personal feeling standpoint, once I got the f the the first like trolls out of the way, then I'm like, okay, carry me away. Yeah, that's that that's because that's how it's gonna go. Um but uh I I you know I I think I think I probably barked back at you a bit, you know, uh you know, more than than what than what you deserve. So you know, so that's that's that's gone from yeah, and that's another thing too. When when when that's a good characteristic for a cop to have is like when somebody says, ah, you let it go right away, you know, and and that's cool.

SPEAKER_01: 57:41

Yeah, and um, yeah, when in that and that's why I because I don't offer everybody that disagrees with me a a pass to come on the show. Um, but I I could tell. I I was like, no, I was like, if he and I sat down and had a beer together, we'd be cool. And that's kind of the tone that that I like to play off of. So I was like, I don't think I don't think he's understanding my point. And as the more I text it, the more it's gonna sound like cop spanning, which I hate to do. So I was like, let's get him on the show. Let's just talk about it. Let my people that's in the chat, you can see nobody's tearing you up. So I I was really happy with that. Um by now. Yeah, yeah. Our audience is pretty cool about that stuff.

SPEAKER_07: 58:23

Um my boy look uh my boy looked at some of them, and and my my boy's 13 years old, and and when he's thirty, when you got a teenager, like you kind of wonder, like what the and he saw some of them and he and he got pissed.

SPEAKER_01: 58:34

Oh, really? He got pissed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 58:36

He got pissed. And and then I'm like, okay, don't it's a good lesson.

SPEAKER_01: 58:40

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_07: 58:41

You know, for him. Speaking of good lessons, I'll tell you if you got if you got a minute.

SPEAKER_00: 58:45

Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_07: 58:46

Uh I was I was um uh I was late and taken in the school a couple years ago, and I was speeding down in the school in the school zone, and a cop pulled me over. And and um and he uh and I said, This is what you do. Turn the car off, put the hands up, you know, put everything up there. This is what happened. So he gave me a ticket. I didn't argue with him, you know, he didn't try to, you know, get out of there. And then when I went down, um and and so when when he left and I got him to school, um he asked me, how much are you gonna have to pay for that? And I go, probably like a hundred, a hundred and fifty bucks. And he his eyes got wide, he's like, You have to pay for that just for speeding? That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02: 59:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 59:40

So I dropped him off the school, and the and I went on the way back, I stopped and I said, Hey, I want to thank you for giving me that ticket. Because what you you went you shot a whole thank you for not getting me out of it, because you showed a lesson to my boy full circle about what could happen if you break the law, you know, and this is and it shot him, and it was just that was just perfect. You know, so that that was a good that was a good uh uh learning learning lesson for you know for my boy that made sure that the do do me a favor, keep keep keep that mentality in Virginia.

SPEAKER_06: 1:00:18

Don't bring that up to Idaho. I don't want any tickets, okay? I'm not a kid.

SPEAKER_07: 1:00:23

Right now, the thing I go to Idaho to see you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:26

Yeah, see the RC. Before we boot you off here, David, I want people to know how to find you. Um why if we can't get your follower count up there, brother. Um, so you guys can see uh David's account here, uh Hank Radio on Instagram. That's where I found him. That's where uh we were chatting. Uh I threw you a follow there, sir. Um if you got any more topics or anything like that, throw you a follow back too. I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_07: 1:00:54

If if you want to uh I got a law enforcement, law enforcement here in this area, too. So if you'd like to speak with them, I'll get you in touch with them as well.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:00

We always like cops from outside the area for sure. So that'll work. But appreciate your yep, appreciate your time, brother.

SPEAKER_07: 1:01:07

Um talking with all of you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:09

Yep, you have a good night. See ya. Um there we go. Well, I think that went pretty good. A little longer than I expected, but thank you overall.

SPEAKER_06: 1:01:23

Yeah, but uh, that's uh there's some good issues, but yeah. Not a problem. All right, I gotta go soon, but what else you got left? Anything anything left that you can talk about, Eric, while I'm here?

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:33

Yeah, so I kind of wanted to get into uh get into it with the kid here and uh talk about his career path because we haven't been able to have him on because his days off have been messed up and he's trying to go, he's trying to go dun dun. He's trying to be a SWAT dude. Okay, yeah. What's what's going on with that? What's the journey like, sir?

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:01

They actually didn't pick me up.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:02

I was kind of surprised, but if you never get SWAT your first time through, baby. You should know that.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:08

What do you think you're probably I did think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:15

Listen, bro.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:16

I ain't never been picked last ever in my life.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:19

Well, welcome to True Operators. I I guarantee because I know where you're at. They don't play. It's teams that have been together for a long time. They're really picky on high. One thing that most SWAT teams do is you get rejected the first time, no matter what. Unless you just happen to be a dude that had prior experience in SWAT, or you happen to be a Navy SEAL or Green Beret, Delta Force, something like that, that they can apply to it. But they I will tell you the mentality, and you've probably been told this. Uh, I'm not trying to preach to you, but most of the time it's like we need to tell him no so we can see how he responds.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:58

That could have been the case. Yeah, it could have been the case.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:00

I my bet is they said no because they want to see if it is truly something that you want, or you're just trying to wear the rockers so the chicks think you're cool. So mom would see you come home to mom and be like, hey, check it out. Because it it is.

SPEAKER_05: 1:03:14

That could have been the case, bro, because a lot of other people were like, even people that were on the team, they're like, That don't really make sense. And I'm like, hey, bro, I don't know. I did pretty well in the testing. I don't know, man. I was very confused, but good reputation. Yeah, I work with a lot of them dudes, so yeah, man. I don't know. I was very confused, but uh shit is what it is. It's just maybe it wasn't the right time, whatever the case may be.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:40

Yeah, I I would say I would say the I bet the next opening they have when they have tryouts again. I bet you're a very serious contender.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:51

But they're gonna want to see you continue the training, continue volunteering to come help them and you know, doing whatever it is they need done. That's my recommendations as Big Sarge. Like, that's what I tell you. Anthony, you got anything on that?

SPEAKER_06: 1:04:03

No, but I think I think there's something to be said about that. It's it's kind of a right of passage in a sense, especially with the with the with the with the the higher tier teams. I mean, if you're trying to go to Mayberry PD and some regional task force, uh they probably don't care, right? They're just looking for warm bodies that people they can pass a physical exam. But I I've seen I've seen that with the top the upper tier teams. They put you through a little stress and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:26

Yeah, you're not going like you gotta understand too, nationwide the SWAT team you're trying to go to, that's no joke.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:34

I mean, that's no, no, I do I do take that into consideration too. Like I do consider it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:40

Yeah, it's not Mayberry. Yeah, it is not Mayberry, bro. That's like that shit that I would like. I love being a cop, don't get me wrong. And I've done a lot of things, but I don't even know that I'd have had the nuts to try out for a SWAT team like that, or my like even our own SWAT team.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:56

Like it's just uh even where you even where you at it's yeah, it's just like a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:00

Yeah, like they're they're they they work with SEAL team guys, like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:05

They do it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:05

Yeah, my guys, they work with SEAL team dudes. I'm like, that's crazy. Like, I ain't at that level. I don't have that commitment, and that's what you need. You gotta put the team first all the time. And you having a new baby, like all that, like that's shit that stacks against you.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:18

Yeah, and I think when I was looking back on it, because at first I'm like, damn, maybe it's the socials, but I'm like, nah, dude, like I got a clean reputation. I'm like, can't be that. And then I was like, one of my boys that's on like the he's on like our full-time squad, all he does is like train all day. I worked with him for a couple years, yeah. And he knows a lot about me about like my baby and my far commute. And I like maybe he spoke up and was like, nah, dude, don't put him through that yet. So that could that could have been the case too. Yeah, I don't know, man. I don't know. I know it had nothing to do with like my my ability to do the job where I don't think it had anything to do with that.

SPEAKER_06: 1:05:52

Trey, have you ever thought about it? Could be the fact that you hang out with uh Eric Levine? Nah, nah, nah. I don't think we've been that you don't think so. I've I've I've lost opportunities because of this guy. They're like, oh, you know Eric? Do you know what he cares? He has no consideration for kids' safety. He lets them play in the ice, he wants to arrest these people.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:11

Yeah. So how do you I how do you think that went overall, Anthony? You think that that was uh uh fair?

SPEAKER_06: 1:06:17

Yeah, I it went a little long just because you know you're basically just kind of going full circles. But um, you know, with the you know, he's a the guy's a good talker, right? And um, you know, I I want you know, I I I I I I I can only um all I can say is, and I don't want to be rude about it, but it's like I can I can kind of imagine him like how he was speaking to this guy. You know, he probably wasn't being very diplomatic about it. He was probably yelling at this guy. Um, and you know, when you when you yell at adults, adults are gonna do, they're not gonna change their position because they don't want to be yelled at. So if if you're listening, Dave, I would probably if if that if there's some truth to that, you should probably try to work on maybe if it is true, the political part of it, because I think his heart is in the right place. I know his heart's in the right place. I would not bring I would not bring my kids on that ice um unless it was legit Michigan ice or whatever, not some pond. Um they didn't even have life. I mean, you know, just like no rope, nothing, you know. It's like I don't know, it's just I I wouldn't have done it. But um, but yeah, I just think that there's uh some I I think there's the the law, but the this the social aspect is there. And also, I didn't like the fact that four cops showed up. I think that's kind of BS. It's oversaturation, it just even makes it even worse. I mean, come on, four cops were kids on the ice, it just makes your community look bad.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:34

That I well, that's how I saw it when I first that's why I responded.

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:37

It's a it's a town that has no crime.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:39

I would have let it go, honestly. I would have kept scrolling. I just saw it and I was like, God damn, they got four cops, and I'm looking at this dude looking up for us because he was below, and I was like, what the fuck is going on? So that's why I watched the video, and then as I'm watching, I'm like, holy fuck, we got four cops for a dude on the ice with his kids. I'm like, come on. I grew up like that.

SPEAKER_06: 1:07:58

Like, no, it's it it it it it is weaponization, it's at least it's scaring the public into compliance for what you're yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:06

And I like I said, I don't think it wasn't that I think David was doing that intentionally. I'm just trying to show that's the perception, that's that's how it looks, and that's how it can be perceived to these people that are out there, just like you said, growing up in a you know, or being in an affluent area, like like I I would not respond well to that.

SPEAKER_06: 1:08:23

No, but next time, do me a favor, Eric. Next time, when you have a guy who's been has an ex-wife that's called the cops on him multiple times, probably something to jail a few times. Can you kind of like pivot and just get into that conversation and just ask the ultimate question? Hey, David, uh, based on what I'm hearing about your wife, she was hot, wasn't your ex-wife? Was she kind of hot? The hotness, the hot crazy meter.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:44

Yeah, the crazy the hot scale.

SPEAKER_06: 1:08:46

Yeah, that's the famous video. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely true.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:49

I mean at least not what he was telling us.

SPEAKER_06: 1:08:52

Let me just tell you, it's very true, and my wife is crazy. Easy. She's hot. She's hot. I'll take hot.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:01

You know, it's funny because if we were to flip the rolls here, like I bet Trey's wife would be like, I'm safe. My boy is I'm glad he's funny. I don't know. I'm glad he's funny.

SPEAKER_06: 1:09:13

Yeah, he works out. At least he works out. I don't know. For sure.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:19

I know my worth.

SPEAKER_06: 1:09:21

Let's be honest. She's probably gone. I mean, the guy can't even get SWAT. Why hang your like this? You can't get SWAT. Trey, you're such a big talker. You can't get SWAT. She's out. She's looking for a firefighter right now.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:33

Yeah. Rumor is uh Trey's baby uh repelled out of the out of the womb. Uh so we better find out who the dad is.

SPEAKER_06: 1:09:41

Um that's kind of disrespectful to his wife. That might be a tad disrespectful to that poor woman. That's just the complications. Yeah, you know, I mean, I want to make some jokes right now, but just like, I fucking come on tonight.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:01

I I've been gone, I come back, and this is the disrespect.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:04

Who's this guy? Who's this fucking guy?

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:07

Oh my god. Uh so Anthony, what is with uh Trey? You don't know this and Trey, you could be next on Anthony's podcast if he's looking for some uh some young Thundercats. Uh what is the what's the future holding right now for the podcast? Is there is there ideas to do more than just the pre-recorded interviews? Are you thinking about doing live?

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:29

Is it well I do live already? So what I do, Trey, have you ever heard of blue to gold law enforcement training? So I do search, I'm I'm a search and seizure guy, so that's what I'm known for. Okay. And so like myself, okay. Okay, so you're a search and seizure guy?

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:45

Oh, give him the scenario you gave me today and let's see how he does.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:49

Come on. All right, I will.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:51

I'm gonna grab some liquor. Hold on. I ran I just ran out of my my my smoke wagon.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:56

Okay. Um babies repelling out of mamas, smoke wagons. A lot of innuendos tonight, my friend. A lot of innuendos. All right. So what was the the I'm sorry it was the traffic stop one, remember? Uh no, no, no, I know that scenario, but you asked another question.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:18

Oh, and I just wanted you to run it by him. That's what I was thinking about.

SPEAKER_06: 1:11:21

I thought we were talking about we were talking about search and seizure and all that stuff, and I just kind of want to see where he goes with with how he So look, uh you you pull okay, so you run it, you run a tag, and the RO comes back with the warrant. Fine, it's at night, you can't see the who's driving. You pull the car over. There's two occupants in the vehicle. There's a female driver, there's a male passenger. The male is your fugitive.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:46

The driver, correct?

SPEAKER_06: 1:11:48

No, the the passenger, sorry. Okay, the male passenger is your ro, but also your fugitive.

unknown: 1:11:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 1:11:57

The female is the girlfriend. She's gonna drive the car. The car is registered and all that kind of stuff. She, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:02

Hold on. Hold on. For those listening, R.O. is registered owner. Gotta remember, not everybody speaks cop talk.

SPEAKER_06: 1:12:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So the uh the RO uh is arrested. You know, get out of the car. Hey, by the way, uh, driver, can I can I see your driver's license? And she says, Look, why'd you stop us? Purely because you you thought that somebody was wanted. Yes. Uh, did I do anything wrong? That was I speeding, you know, anything like that? I got my seatbelt on, right? Uh no, you're you were fine, but I just I want to see your license. And she says, I'm not gonna give you my license. You have no business with me. I'm not gonna give you my license. The cop says, No, now I'm ordering you to give me your license. She says, I'm not giving you my license. I did nothing wrong. I'm gonna stand on principle here. Make your move. What's your move?

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:51

I think you have to cut them.

SPEAKER_06: 1:12:53

You can't demand it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:55

Unless, unless you know, like you already put the warrant with the face, and you know that that that passenger is already. Yeah, but if you don't have that, yeah, I think you gotta cut him.

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:09

I like it. Yeah, and and what yeah, I like the kid got skills. Well, but but tell me the why. Tell tell me the why. What what's okay, fine.

SPEAKER_05: 1:13:17

That you don't have why do you don't have a reason for the stop?

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:21

It's over.

SPEAKER_05: 1:13:22

Yeah, the contact is over. I don't think you have a reason for the stop.

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:25

Well, what about the laws that say, you know, in many states, I'm sure California is the same way, that has a surrender upon demand type language where if you are, you know, if a cop demands your license, you must provide it, presumably on a traffic stop. Why wouldn't that work?

SPEAKER_05: 1:13:41

You have a valid stop, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:43

Well, we do have a valid stop. The stop was valid. Initially, it was stopped. We we had reasonable suspicion that a person in the vehicle was wanted.

SPEAKER_05: 1:13:58

I mean, I guess it is, but nah. I'm still sticking on my guns. I'm saying no on that one.

SPEAKER_06: 1:14:02

No, I think you're I think you're right. The problem is there's just no governmental interest there. Um and the this whole surrender upon demand, those those laws come from like the 1940s, 1930s. It's it's just to basically tell people if you get stopped by the police, you have to give up your license. Just to say that has consequences. If you don't give up your license, you're obligated to, you know, to prove you can drive. But here, there's no there's no governmental interest. Um, you don't have any reason to believe that she's not a uh a lawful driver. Now she says, Oh, well, I don't have it on me, or I think it might be suspended, boom, then you're good, right?

SPEAKER_05: 1:14:38

Um, what I what I will say, I think I think uh because I'm comparing it to like if they were walking down the street and you stopped them, but it's different from a from a vehicle. Yeah, I think you'll be it all day if they were walking.

SPEAKER_06: 1:14:56

Well, it really should be um no different than stopping the the the car. The driver is your wanted person. You have two other people in the car. Um, nobody wants to drive the car, so we don't have that issue, right? If you know, hey, I want to drive the car away, well then give me your license. I'm not giving my license. Well, you're not driving the car then, right? But I'm not I'm not gonna drive the car. I just want to walk away. Then we know the law is clear, uh, especially in the Ninth Circuit, that you can't demand ID from a passenger. So why doesn't it work for the driver? That the the there is a better argument for the driver, but not enough to overcome this. And at the end of the day, I'd like to say, Trey, like to my cops, like at the end of the day, are you going to take it to the mat? Are you going to say, I'm taking you to jail tonight because you won't give me your license? No way. No way.

SPEAKER_05: 1:15:43

So yeah, not for that. But I think if I got a lawful stop, I'm getting I think I gotta I can ID that passenger though.

SPEAKER_06: 1:15:50

Say say say it again.

SPEAKER_05: 1:15:52

If I got a lawful stop on the on the driver, and I believe the I believe that drive and I have the reasonable suspicion to believe that passenger is wanted, then I'm gonna ID that passenger.

SPEAKER_06: 1:16:01

Well, of course, that's different though. Well, you have a problem in California, though. In California, you don't have a um a stop and identify statute. So if a person, if you have PC 148, you have so that's you know, penal code 148 to stop and yeah, you you have to still now you can try to do their fingerprints. I do, I'm I'm cool with the fingerprint. I'm cool with facial recognition. That's right. I'm cool with getting the driver out and say, hey, who's your friend? But if they don't want to identify themselves, they don't have to identify themselves in California. But some states are that's not true in all states. Nevada is the opposite.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:36

Yeah, I was gonna say, um, it varies state to state, and I I would I would wonder, you know, like you said, if you have RAS, there's a difference, but if you don't um uh so uh no, but you know Texas the same way.

SPEAKER_06: 1:16:53

Uh you can't you can't demand ID from put somebody in Texas unless they're under arrest. Um so uh what else? What else you got? I mean, I'm the I'm the the you know the uh guy, okay? Yeah, I think let me see.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:08

I'm trying to think of some shit. I know like the the phone stuff is a big one. I know that's because that's evolving, a lot of changes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:14

Oh, yeah. With the phones, uh, just merching people's phones.

SPEAKER_06: 1:17:18

Yeah, I mean, yeah. Um yeah, so the phones, I mean, you know, the most of those cases are just grabbing the phones. It's it's most of the cases on phones is actually how to get the phone because officers know they're gonna have to get a warrant to actually download it. Um but I get a lot of questions about hey, can you know third-party consent and those issues come up? Um yeah, so I don't know. I mean, uh, you consider yourself a search and seizure expert, though.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:47

I wouldn't say expert, but I'm I'm pretty confident, man. It was something that I like I grabbed interest in right away, and I've always like paid attention to it. As you should.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:56

It's one of the things you deal with a lot.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:58

Yeah, yeah. I try to keep it basic, and I I mean I feel pretty confident, man. I know when I got a search and I know when I don't, and I know when I'm in detention, and I know when I don't.

SPEAKER_06: 1:18:06

Well, what about this? What about you have you have so California? We know that personal use drugs uh are not necessarily restable, right? It could be a misdemeanor, you know, just a so you have that's yeah, you have this person who you have PC that they have methamphetamine somewhere on their person. Um, and you're not looking to arrest them, you're looking to cite and release them, but they're not giving you consent to let, let's say, look in their backpack or look in their pockets. Uh, but again, you're not looking to arrest. Um, how do you get your evidence and without consent? You already did you you never seen a method, or you just think they have you have you have PC, so a fair probability, probable cause, a fair probability that they have it on them. You don't have absolute certainty, but you have a fair probability they have it on them. And again, you're not looking to do a search instance to arrest. You just want to kind of grab and go.

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:53

Side of cut them, that's it.

SPEAKER_06: 1:18:54

Well, where's there where's your evidence? I thought you said you have PC. No, you have the PC, but you don't have the evidence yet. You have the PC that they have evidence on their person, but they're not allowing you to search their person.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:07

Oh, okay. I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_06: 1:19:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:10

Um, I still and you witnessed it though? Like you witnessed them smoke it, or you witnessed them.

SPEAKER_06: 1:19:17

No, I mean you let's say you do you do a pedestrian stop, you do a pat down, um, they have a meth pipe in their pocket. That's not arrestable in California, most other states. But they also say, yeah, I mean, you're not gonna arrest, you're not gonna arrest on a meth pipe in California. No, no, no, yeah. Um, this ain't Texas, Eric. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:35

This is saying it's an arrestable offense. I just I it's not necessarily that I'm going to arrest them.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:41

I don't think so. Well, I guess the the better word is not bookable. Like, you're not gonna book somebody on that. It is an arrest, technically, but okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:48

I was gonna say, because that that is an arrestable offense.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:51

It's not book it's not bookable, not bookable.

SPEAKER_06: 1:19:53

Well, okay, so we like okay, we got to talk about that then. I'm sorry, but that's the problem is in California you you have a training scar there, and it's not your fault. It's that the state does consider a citation to be an arrest.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20:05

Yeah, that's that's yeah, so a citation is an arrest.

SPEAKER_06: 1:20:08

Yeah, but the problem is that's not true under the Fourth Amendment. And I guess and the reason why it's important because an arrest has benefits, right? Yeah, it's it's uh the an arrest means that there's no time limit. Yet you can you can hold them as long as you want to, you know, 48 hours. Uh, an arrest also comes with a search, a search into arrest. The problem is a citation, even though you can call it whatever you want, you can call it a prison sentence if you want to. The problem is it's not an arrest constitutionally because you don't have the benefits of an arrest. And that's why that's why California creates treading scars by calling this an arrest. Um, but regardless, we have this conundrum, and it's a and and and Trey, it's a question I get all the time, right? It's like, how do I, if I have PC, this guy has methamphetamine on him. I didn't see it. I don't know a hundred percent, but that's not what PC is. How do I recover this evidence, but also scratch him, grab the few grams, right? And say, you know what, I'm taking out of your pocket, I'm taking out your backpack, here's I'm taking your I'm taking your personal use, here's your ticket, get the hell out of here. How do you do that? What is the recognized exception there?

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:19

Shit, I don't know. That's a good question. Yeah, it's it's a dog out there for it. Yeah, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_06: 1:21:25

Yeah, um, I think that the answer is agency, like an emergency, like you know, hey, if if in Your Honor, look, I have PC for these reasons that they have drugs on their person. You know, meth pipe, they admit that they smoke every day, they're came from a known drug house, whatever, right? But I can't use search visitors to arrest, but I have to use agency. Um, and that's the recognized exception. And I can get into the case all by, but that's a that's a tricky one. I don't think that I I that's one that courts have not really um handled. And somebody says pat down. Well, pat downs are not searches for drugs, they're searches for weapons for drugs, but if you're looking for aware, whatever. Yeah, and there's a case called um Snipe. Snipe, I think, is your case on that at the Ninth Circuit that says that you can search under exigency.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:15

Question because I'm not out in California. Wade said in Cali we don't have to ID until a booking process.

SPEAKER_06: 1:22:22

Is that it's just it's it's it just meaning you have to be arrested. Okay, it's all to be arrested, yeah. California is the same as Nexus.

SPEAKER_05: 1:22:30

Arrest meaning like you're being transported, correct?

unknown: 1:22:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:22:33

Okay, so booking on scene, it doesn't really matter. What he's saying is ultimately you are gonna have to identify yourself or it's another crime. Or it's another crime, yeah. Yeah, it's always a 148.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:44

Right, and that's how it is in Texas, but he's saying even after arrest.

SPEAKER_06: 1:22:49

That's I I semantics. I think that maybe that's the way he was trained.

SPEAKER_05: 1:22:53

The wordplay, the wordplay.

SPEAKER_06: 1:22:54

Yeah, but but if you go to booking, if you're like take you're gonna be taken to jail and you're at the booking station and you're you're still refusing to tell these people who you are, that's another crime.

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:03

Yeah, so meaning like if I if I met, let's say traffic stop and I'm like, dude, you're under arrest, get out of the car. I make you get out, cuff you up. He's saying you don't have to identify yourself at that point, which is true. But if you choose not to, it's a it's an additional crime if you choose not to. I think additional charge.

SPEAKER_06: 1:23:19

At the book of the case.

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:20

Meaning when I get you to the jail, it's like yo, we're gonna ID you at this point. But you already got the 48 charge because you decided not to ID yourself up until that point.

SPEAKER_06: 1:23:30

Ah, okay. That's that's the point of no return. If you don't identify yourself past that point, then you're gonna get another charge. But most cop most people are gonna identify themselves on scene, it's not gonna be an issue. But if they don't want to do it during booking, yeah, so that's fine.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:23:47

Yeah. Anyway, um, I'm gonna get out of here, but any other uh legal questions?

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:52

No, sir. That's all I got.

SPEAKER_06: 1:23:54

Not that I can think of.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:55

Yeah, I appreciate your time, brother.

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:57

How can you work were you in Cali or were you did you work in Cali?

SPEAKER_06: 1:24:01

I was a state trooper in Nevada, so um okay. So I was the real police.

SPEAKER_05: 1:24:08

Let me tell you how many sidebooks did you go through?

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:11

Right?

SPEAKER_06: 1:24:12

Yeah, yeah, 25 a day. Well, look, I didn't get denied for SWAT, I can tell you that. I mean I mean, but you know you know why I didn't get denied, right? Because I didn't apply.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:30

All right, fair. Uh damn. I was gonna say if you did make SWAT, that would have been funny as shit.

SPEAKER_06: 1:24:37

Well, look, I mean, first of all, let's make sure we're kind of comparing apples to apples because uh I like to say, like, I was a cop in like Vegas, Nevada, like we're still cowboys out there, like we can barely read and write. I mean, we're we're skinning our smoke wagons for almost anything. You know what I mean? And in California, they're doing like legitimate police work out there. Over here, you come across the board, it's like we oh, the Constitution? Well, I tell you around here, uh, we take the Fourth Amendment as a recommendation.

SPEAKER_05: 1:25:02

Yeah, they don't play around. Yeah, no, Vegas, they don't yeah, they don't play around.

SPEAKER_06: 1:25:07

No, no, Vegas don't play. Vegas don't play.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:09

We got that, just means we got work to do, Anthony. We gotta we gotta school these cops up so they don't violate people's fourth amendment.

SPEAKER_06: 1:25:16

Um, somebody did say that we we're losing a majority of our fourth amendment rights to agency if we're invoking it according to some of Anthony's scenarios. Well, maybe. I mean, you know, to each his own. Tell me what the case tell me what the case is, right? I'm just I'm giving you cases.

SPEAKER_05: 1:25:29

You have you know, you have agency is a thing for a reason, dude.

SPEAKER_06: 1:25:34

Yeah, but it but it but it's legitimate. I think one thing we can agree on um is that it has to be objectively reasonable. It has to be like here and now, if I don't grab the sevens, I'm gonna lose it. But, you know, we can debate about and the other thing is like what's funny too is you can talk about the the balancing act of the Fourth Amendment, which is privacy and intrusion. And it's like, all right, Your Honor, I have PC2 that he has drugs on him, so I decided to look in his backpack, take the drugs, and kick him loose. Or I could have arrested him, take him to jail, strip searched him, have him bail out, lose his job in the morning, lose his car for 48 hours. You know, I mean, like get his car towed. Your honor, which one do you think is more intrusive? Which one should the Supreme Court uphold? The less intrusive, grab the drugs and go, or take his ass to jail and do a strip search? I mean, the point is, is like it's it's it's more a little bit more complicated. If it was so simple, I'd be out of business and I have to sell my guns at the SWAT meet. You know what I mean? To pay my bills.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:29

You can get rid of that.

SPEAKER_05: 1:26:31

I got a question. What's uh what's some of the like what's some of the themes you see with uh with pat downs being thrown out when you know there's a gun found using like the Terry v. Ohio type pat downs.

SPEAKER_06: 1:26:43

Well, the main thing is for me. Well, me go through like three things that we see, okay? Um number one is the reason, okay. So this is the number one reason. Okay, the number one reasons that that pat downs get thrown out is because officers use nothing more than training and experience to justify why they're gonna pat this person down. Training and experience is nothing different, is no different than a stereotype without here and now facts, okay? Here's your classic problem a cop uh will say, based on my training experience, is a high crime neighborhood, and this guy, I pulled him over for speeding, he has a criminal history, including a violent criminal history, therefore I patted him down. Trey, do you see the problem with that? Right? It's it's it's a it's a stereotype. In other words, can there be people that live in high crime areas or trans or transit through high crimes area, you know, uh try high crime areas, but also have a criminal history themselves, but also be good people? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, 30% of people who live in prison do find Jesus. I mean, you know, let's be honest, okay? They do find Jesus, they do find a good life. Um, you know, they they they have kids repelling out of the womb and and they're raising their kids and so forth. So the point is when cops say that stuff, when cops say that stuff, they're all they're saying is, Your Honor, I don't they can never be a good person in my world. But that's not what they mean though, Trey. And and here's what I say like when I talk to these cops, because the cases get denied, right? They're like, there's no reasonal suspicion for arms and dangerous, you have nothing more than than some anecdotal past experience. But but I'll tell you, when I call these cops, because let's say it's a it's a serious case, and you know, they're one of my one of my clients um at the agency, I'll call these cops and say, hey, look, your gun case is is gonna get tossed, okay? What else did you know about that car stop? 95% of the time, there's always more. There's always a furtive movement, a delayed stop, argumentative, some kind of furtive move, you know, for I said furtive movement and so forth. Um, there's always more. So that's number one. Number two is that when they write their report, they're writing in a way that appears that they manipulated the person's pockets and so forth while trying to feel a weapon. Now, guns are kind of easy. You you either it is it either is or it's not. So maybe that's not too applicable to the gun case, but mostly for those drug cases, right? And number three, the problem, which is not common-ish, but it does happen, is the officer is not doing the pat down at the time or close as close to the time when he develops the reasonable switch from armed and dangerous, he's waiting to the last like to release him to go back to the car, whatever. And the problem there is it looks like the cop lacks credibility. Your honor, after five minutes of the stop, I had to set these factors for armed and dangerous, but I didn't do the pat down until I released or I cut him his citation. Well, you said that you spent 10 minutes in danger. It's it's just not credible.

SPEAKER_05: 1:29:43

But then wait waiting for cover is not part of that time frame.

SPEAKER_06: 1:29:48

No, cover is a good excuse if the guy's in the car, right? So you know, look, people most, you know, I was a trooper, so um, having if you have a person who's armed in dangerous, keeping them in the car while you have you know concealment, cover, whatever, uh behind your door while you're waiting for backup is absolutely the right thing to do. You do not want to pull that guy out by yourself. That's dumb. He's in his metal coffin if he wants to uh pull, you know, make uh you know try to shoot you and so forth, right? It's we we have the advantage. But I'm talking about a street encounter, for example, where you're talking to him and so forth, and the defense attorney says, All right, let's based on based on the facts that you believe you had that he was armed and dangerous, at what point in time, time-wise, the timeline, did you have all those facts? Did you have those five factors? Well, probably five minutes into the stop. When did you do the uh the pat down ten minutes into the stop? Why are you unsafe for five minutes? They need a reason for that. And waiting for cover could be a good reason for it. But if they don't have a reason, they have a problem.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:48

Make sense. Okay, yeah, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_06: 1:30:51

Yeah, like it. All right, well, it was fun talking to. you boys. Um Trey, hopefully our paths are cross again. I'm probably gonna I'm not gonna make a joke. I'm sorry. I'm just I'm a funny guy. I was gonna say I'll probably wait till you get to onto SWAT so we so we're at the same level.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:31:09

I mean you know I'm already I'm at the top I'm at the top of my career, okay? I'm I'm I'm I just I need you to kind of get up to my level Trey okay because you're still young serious because you're still young I we're gonna guide him as he goes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:31:20

We're gonna make sure he doesn't you know make sure another SWAT guy doesn't swoop into that house later on.

SPEAKER_06: 1:31:25

So yeah hey start committing hey start committing a third amendment violation you know what I mean yeah right um shit somebody's getting quartered just the fact that Eric you got that joke makes me love you more because a lot of people like third amendments what is that you know that's quartering soldiers guys so if your wife is quartering a soldier huh she's cheating on you okay and it's a third amendment violation yeah you can probably sue him oh shit too funny all right brother appreciate you uh we'll catch you on the next one see you guys all right Trey um just you and I buddy uh I don't really uh have anything on the agenda tonight I just wanted you to be able to give an update of where you've been and what's been going on with you yeah man so uh I got the the kids the kids is man that's that's a lot I got two kids under well my son is two my daughter is one from the same mom I don't got hood twins same same mom damn he man you went right to it yeah I got I ain't got no hood twins I got the same same mom uh and then uh I got a pretty long commute to work too I drive two hours to work there and back what the fuck two hours what's wrong with you it was the most believe it or not it was the most rational choice at the time so uh yeah I've been doing that uh for about a year a little over a year you drive four hours worth of work every day what's your shift you work eights tens or twelves uh we do tens so you work 14 hours 14 hours 14 hour days yeah damn but my uh where I work at man man that's the crazy part but uh nah where I work at man I got a some really good people that I work with some really good command staff and like I mean they they they they take care of me bro like if I ever if I want to switch shifts or need to adjust or anything they're cool with it because they you know they're considered a work how far I'm coming from but uh but yeah man I think that's kind of made me that's why you didn't make swap bro how were you supposed to respond two hours away when shit hits a fan because it's it's about the mileage it ain't about the the time it's about the mileage okay so mileage wise you don't live that far away it's just no I still live far but I'm right at the at the crack of what fair enough I understand what you're saying yeah I'm right at the crack so yeah uh but yeah man I think um I think nah you ain't about to come out in my division man give me Trey's division I'll go audit him and we can play like nah don't pick me for SWAT bam um my area though we have uh word this we have a group of community members that are not very police friendly okay and they are they are essentially like auditors though very similar style to auditors they're not as educated but they definitely are very similar and I deal with them all the time so auditors don't I'm not scared of auditors they don't scare me they don't bother me uh sometimes I'm cuz you got educated by TCOD we taught you yeah I give you that I give you that uh but yeah nah sometimes I um uh there's have been a couple auditors I can have like some reasonable conversations with and some are just radical and you can't talk to them and oh they just the the ones that trying to they know they just keep swearing and doing all the yeah yeah it's like come on but you know I'm not the person you're looking for dog I'm not I'm not gonna give you the answer you're looking for I'm not gonna give you the reaction you're looking for.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35:18

Yeah and uh but some they just keep going and I'm like yeah I just can't even holler those ones frustrate me not like frustrate me to make me want to do anything I'm just like man I like I if you really believe in your mission like we could probably have a cool conversation I I'm cool with what you're doing because if you can get these busters out of here that you can get all flustered up that's cool man go after them get them up out of here but yeah the uh the ones that are like at the end of the day good cops want good cops auditors want good cops I ain't mad at that so yeah yeah I'm uh you know it's funny because I I know the training we get and it's good training but even at places like my own I've seen officers that got hung up and in trouble because they let the auditors get to them like you can you can still you can be trained and still fall for that shit. Nah 100% or you just get caught on a bad day or not a bad day yep yeah yeah I think luckily for me sports I mean that's helped my uh like my poise and attitude on this job yeah because if people having a sport being criticized being like embarrassed on TV like yeah being scored on and game winning you know game winning touchdowns like when you have that experience I'm like man there ain't nothing I can experience out here that's gonna give me character so yeah you probably did good pretty good being televised in that flag football league that makes sense I mean I I know you didn't play like real football so can't hear you're you're crazy you're crazy you're crazy see in hockey we call it chirping so yeah same shit yeah yeah I I don't know what they call it on in football I didn't play football talking shit chirping everybody depending on where you're from everybody call it something different ego yeah hockey is a different it's a different breed they don't fuck around in hockey don't get me wrong the toughness level and I give everybody the same sh spiel like listen you gotta be tough to play football you gotta be tough to to play hockey you gotta be tough to play rugby rugby's probably the most brutal sport out there yeah rugby yeah next to MMA but the the shit talking is where it's different it just it is different it's different in the NBA than it is in the NFL the NFL is different than what it is in hockey and I recommend anybody if you want to listen to just some off the cuff weird chirping as I like to call it listen to listen to hockey the the way that they talk shit to each other is it's just different and it hits different it's funny they're just you laugh but at the same time you're like damn that was disrespectful as fuck but I can't quite figure out how I like how y'all y'all can fight though that's the I like that part y'all can get out of each other. So that would fix a lot of problems not just in sports but in life in general you know oh my god it'll fix a lot of problems right if if you could have a you know like I think Seattle and there's certain places that you can go you can have mutual combat um I think even Texas has a mutual combat but there's another law that like they contradict each other. We we have mutual combat here but it becomes like a fine from my understanding it becomes like a fine line when when one person is will significantly winning the fight and they just keep taking it too far like how do you like how do you decipher that yeah me as a cop I'm not taking that liability I'm like exactly exactly I'm like bro you're 250 and this guy's 140 like I can't let you fight this guy see and stuff like that stuff like that also yeah even if he wants that smoke like I can't like no I'm not letting you fight bro yep yeah and that that's a lot of it a lot of where I'm at we get these bar fights you know they're out in the street they both agree they want to fight and I'm looking at and I'm like like dude unless you're like Helio Gracie I don't see this going in your favor like you can get smoke and then what is it on me? Like I let it happen and then they get in this fight and I'm like oh man um I'm gonna give a shout out on Instagram so Trey I had this company reach out to me called Frontline Optics they make uh it's a firefighter owned business they make they make sunglasses so they're sending me a pair they reached out and said hey can we send you a pair and you just tell us what you think so I'm giving a shout out right now um I'll tell you what I think of their sunglasses uh I have no idea right now but they look cool so we'll see see how that goes somebody uh Tim or yeah Tim said you want to see hey I actually have a video oh you want he wants you to show the tape nah I ain't showing the tape but show the highlight tape hey man listen I have a video of me of some but it not like a I guess it was like a version of an auditor but it went viral like a lot like in the millions for views like it's up there and people are in the comments flaming me talking crazy there's some people like oh I went to high school with that guy I he works here he works there or he's a tyrant yeah man I'm like this is crazy but I wasn't even like doing anything I was just keeping it cool I was laughing at it was like a female and uh it was like a call for uh call for service like a uh we call it a 417 but like basically someone brandished the firearm and when we got there the person's like that person did it right there and I'm like okay so we'll go over there I'm like hey dude uh someone said you have a gun I'm just gonna pat you down real quick do a little pat down and then uh I started to explain like hey this is why I did what I did and I'm trying to be patient and explain thoroughly which because it's intimidating to have you know three four cops come to you pat you down like that's intimidating as a regular civilian so I tried to thoroughly explain that to him and then the girl that he was with just wasn't going for it and she was like uh well I'm saying she got a weapon so now go pat her down I'm like we're not gonna go do that if you thought that you wanted to be a victim you should have called first like we're not gonna go back and forth on that yeah it's clear your boy doesn't have a weapon he's out of handcuffs I'm trying to thoroughly explain to you what's going on and you're not really trying to have it and um yeah she just kept going and the video went viral like then she started throwing like the racial shit out there he's supposed to be black and blah blah blah blah blah oh she was Uncle Tom and you yeah she was yeah yeah she was sell out and yeah dang but I guess she she was she's very pop she actually just she just passed away unfortunate like sad on that part but um yeah she was very very popular on Instagram and um really was she old nah she I guess she had like some like some type of cancer or something I don't want to be disrespectful and say the right oh I gotcha but no worries it was something pretty serious because she died and she wasn't old like she was probably she was but under 50 for sure and um yeah she had passed away but uh yeah I don't I don't really know what happened but I know that video went viral like I it was so many people sending it to me and obviously I can't I can't comment because I can't tie my Instagram to my department so I'm yeah no worries but like yeah I was just like whatever yeah I'll find it later and play that shit I got audited you can show yeah I got audited I've been audited a few times but um I the only there's only one person that's ever posted that I found that audited me and that was uh Cody Highroller and um the other guys I think they didn't get what they wanted and they just I asked for their pages and everything followed them waited waited waited and they never they never because I was proud of it like I'm always proud of it like when I get an auditor and I can get them in the in the field like saying like oh man like you're cool you get it and I'm like all right cool like that makes me feel good I'm like all right cool we we I won at least one auditor over that's awesome and then uh then they never even post a video I was like you sons of bitches it just every every time I I get I be getting them sometime on my stops not all the time but like uh I get them from time to time and then always be like uh I'm like yeah tab I said I always be like uh hey I ain't afraid of auditors bro tag me on Instagram when I'm done and then I usually never get done right yeah Marine Blood said uh Trey you should talk on our Discord more I do need to get up in there man I do need to dig up in there more yeah I think we got a a channel for you or you got your own channel obviously and then um so if people want to ask you questions specifically just to you and then yeah yeah you should be getting in there motherfucker yeah I gotta get up in there more yeah now that you ain't gonna be SWAT so you got time yeah I do got time yeah I gotta just schedule I gotta just schedule right now too I was gonna say you're off on Saturday and Sundays right yeah yeah Saturday Friday Saturday Sunday yeah what yeah I got a good schedule you're right at the right window if you've been on four almost five years yeah you're right at the right window that makes sense I got to schedule right now you working nights though or what are you working two to midnight oh that's a good schedule yeah you you and I almost work the same schedule yeah two to midnight so yeah more traffic yeah I'm working five eighths right now um five eights oh no I'm good I know it sucks but I have to as a supervisor because we don't have enough supervisors so yeah so I'm working Monday through Friday four eights um five eights four times I'm sorry four p.m to midnight yeah oh oh that's a busy oh shit you got a nice little window yeah so it's the it's the whole crime center thing that's why I can't do the Monday night podcast the live stream anymore so it's got to switch over to Sundays and then oh y'all got that y'all got that real crime is real crime center thing y'all got that too yeah yeah yeah yeah bro we got one of the we got one of the oldest ones in the nation they just started that with us it's actually that thing is pretty cool yeah well we got because when they had IACP at all at San Diego we got on to your guys because I'm a part of the the National Real Time Crime Center Association. Oh my I'm like yeah I'm a board member for that so when we went out there we're like bro you all y'all have you got navy the Navy yeah you got all the how do you not have a crime center out here so I was like yeah that makes sense okay okay that makes sense yeah that they I've been to like what the little office is that set up that shit's cool up in there yeah it's kind of based like a dispatch center yeah they'll get better they'll get better um ours is badass and is about to get really cool so if you ever come out my way I'll I'll get you and show you what they're all about but yeah dude that's a it it's a smarter newer way of going after criminals you know so it keeps everybody safer in my opinion you don't you don't have you know your your zero tolerance units going out there and just hitting a hot area of the of the map and just knocking down everybody that moves now they're only going after people that they know are are dirty. So it works pretty good if you're doing it the right way. The one thing that people need to respect is that there's a high potential for tomfoolery and using that shit inappropriately.

SPEAKER_05: 1:46:22

And so that's one of the reasons yeah that's they already started cracking down on us like about even just simply when you run people's name like they're like you need to have a a cat number like damn bro just to run somebody's name it's crazy but hey it happened that all happened for a reason so I gotta respect it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:46:42

Somebody does some dumb shit and you ruin the good toy for everybody else. Man that flock people using flock wrong like yep I agree I agree so yeah it's uh definitely something that needs to be keeped in check and it's an awesome power but it it can help do a lot of good too. So that's that's the cool part but um yeah man I just I wanted to give you a chance to jump back on people that asked me forever did Trey quit? Did he I'm like no you just gotta like y'all need to understand the people that are on here most of them are still cops they still do the job and the schedule is what it is. Especially if you stay on patrol like I was like I'm not gonna dump Trey just simply because his schedule fucked him over like it is what it is. Like he's working his stuff out but um with the the the DTV stuff that we got going on um just be ready for that we've uh we've got some big sponsors that have hit we're I don't know if you've ever heard of Samsung TV Samsung's got their own yeah so we've got a channel on Samsung TV that's gonna let us be they're gonna host us they're called they're called Danger TV so they're gonna host our the two shows that we got and we're already in the talks for uh three or four different shows so um they were you know Paulina our our producer was asking about you if you were still involved and was like yep he's still ready to go so I said uh we'll we'll keep you in the loop when that shit really starts to hit so right now we're in the money building phase so okay I'll give everybody a little a little taste axon's already signed with us so holy shit boy hey what's crazy one of my homies that I used to work that worked on my squad uh he ended up leaving a department but I'm pretty sure he works at Axon I gotta hit him up there you go I'm pretty sure he works over there nice pretty sure but not hey I don't ride a motorcycle to work that's I was just trying to click on that one either asked if you ride sure you'd get to work a lot faster if you did yeah but you ride a motorcycle for that long like you like you'd be mentally tired too I would rather because I mean I believe in the theory of like you can only make so many good decisions in one day so like I don't want to burn all those decisions ride a motorcycle so like I'd rather wait like yeah fair enough I get it I get it cool um well sir we're coming up on two hours you got anything else you want to get across anything you wanted to talk about uh shit nah man hey uh you already got dude Mr.

SPEAKER_05: 1:49:10

Checkpoint no on Instagram uh he's pretty popular bro he has a like very very popular page Mr he's like a a version of an auditor depending on if I don't know if he's respected in the world of auditors but I guess you would consider him in that lane of things and uh okay we've had like some conversations and stuff but uh he ain't the biggest fan of me which is cool I don't really oh he don't like you not really but he did he hit me up to come on um holy shit he got a lot of followers bro yeah that's him yeah yeah so yeah he's at a half a mil just about yeah he's a popular dude especially on the West Coast for sure but okay no I never heard of him uh I'm following he asked me to jump on his stuff one day on a live one day and then um he asked me like like hey uh how do you feel about police uh being recorded I said I'm good with it he's like what do you think people should and I'm like I said I'm good with it man like it's no problem with me yeah and he was so fixated on wanting me to say like people should like we should be recorded and I'm like nah man I like that's not my opinion I just feel like I'm good with it you know like if you choose not to cool if you don't if you choose to cool if you don't cool either way yeah and then uh he got like frustrated with the conversation and it ended but then he uh he posted a video about the ice stuff and then I commented I'm like hey dude like California's sanctuary state we don't really get involved with the federal stuff um and then we can't really because they passed some law in California about not wearing masks and they did that with the intention on it being reflected upon federal agents not wearing masks and then people are getting irritated because we are not enforcing that on federal agents and I'm like we don't have the power to enforce our state laws on them if if they feel like it's gonna impede on their duties or whatever the case may be, we can't enforce that. And uh that's basically what I was telling him and then he was like well uh he hit me up was like oh let's do like a jump on his version of this like some sort of like podcast or show or whatever.

SPEAKER_03: 1:51:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:51:15

And I'm like sure I'll jump on it but I do all that to say which is I ain't trying to be long-winded I do all that to say that if it goes well on his and it's even if it's a debate if it's a healthy debate I'm cool with it or if it's just a conversation I'm cool with it then I'll see if he can jump on here and I think it'd be cool. Hell yeah have him come on yeah you know me I welcome them all but I just want to make sure he's not it's cool to have different opinions but like I just don't like being like you're closed minded or you're not even trying to discuss like if you're just yeah you know ranting I not really ranting but just like taking shots and shit like it's no education and that for either side right yeah no no I get it I get it oh Mr.

SPEAKER_01: 1:51:53

Billfold dropping some love member for 11 months Mr. Billfold he said people have spoken love it thank you Mr. Billfold I appreciate it anybody out there if you want to throw your hard earned money towards us we have a buy me a coffee link and we also have our memberships and super chats and stuff with the YouTube all that money goes right back into the live uh basically into the show so we have premium YouTube for you guys so you don't have to deal with ads.

SPEAKER_05: 1:52:25

That's that's what all the money goes towards um but no yeah if you can get that like seriously reach out to I'm gonna see no I'm gonna see he uh he wanted me to do his thing tomorrow but I was like I'm gonna be watching True Bowl so you gotta wait till after and then uh he just said he was you know pending whatever he had to figure out. But yeah if his go smooth when I get on his then yeah for sure I I think I could get him to jump on this one. I I think it'd be a good one for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 1:52:49

Yeah I think um let me see Sunday the fifteenth that's next Sunday so if he wants to do That date that would work. Um or the 22nd. Both of those will be open. And then after that, I'll be on my military stuff on March 1st. So February 12th is my birthday. So I will probably be off that date.

SPEAKER_05: 1:53:11

55?

SPEAKER_01: 1:53:12

What's that?

SPEAKER_05: 1:53:13

Turning 55 or 55.

SPEAKER_01: 1:53:15

Damn. I hope not. No, 43. I'll be 43 officially. I always have to ask my wife, like, what how old am I going to we turn it? Because we're both the same age. Our birthdays are like 11 days apart. My auntie's saying, What's up, Eric? What's up, Auntie? Um, so yeah, uh, yeah, I'm I'm all about it. I love the more auditors we can get on here, the better. Um, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:53:40

Nah, hopefully he will, man, because I think he'll be good. People on the West Coast for sure he's uh pretty popular.

SPEAKER_01: 1:53:46

People good, yeah. Like I said, I never heard of him until you just told me. So now I'm gonna start checking out his stuff. I'm looking at his videos even, and yeah, he doesn't look familiar to me at all.

SPEAKER_05: 1:53:58

Yeah. Kid with long hair, curly hair. Yeah, he got like long curly hair.

SPEAKER_01: 1:54:02

Yeah, no, I don't recognize him.

SPEAKER_05: 1:54:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:54:06

But to everybody else, go check him out. Mr. Checkpoint. He's on Instagram at least.

SPEAKER_05: 1:54:10

He's probably on everything, but yeah, he probably, yeah, I'm pretty sure he's on everything, too.

SPEAKER_01: 1:54:14

Yeah, Tim goes 43. I remember 43 a long time ago. Trey over there being 28 and shit.

SPEAKER_05: 1:54:21

Yeah, I got a long. I'm actually 30. I got but, you know, look like it, you know, to say black black don't crack.

SPEAKER_01: 1:54:27

You can say it. I can't say it. I'm still a cow.

SPEAKER_05: 1:54:29

Don't crack, man.

SPEAKER_03: 1:54:30

Come on.

SPEAKER_01: 1:54:32

Come on. Too funny. Well, all right, brother. We're gonna we're gonna call it. We're right about two hours. Um we're sorry we couldn't do a Sunday night, y'all, but Super Bowl's tomorrow, and I forgot all about it. So uh I somebody hit me up.

SPEAKER_05: 1:54:46

They're like, who is Patriots gonna get smacked? They wanted to be close. It's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01: 1:54:53

Let me tell you how much I don't pay attention once the lions are out of it. I don't even know who's in the Super Bowl.

SPEAKER_05: 1:54:59

So it's uh Patriots and Seahawks and Patriots. The Seahawks? Nah, Seahawks, they got they play some serious ball, man.

SPEAKER_00: 1:55:06

Holy shit, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:55:07

I don't even like the Seahawks. Hey, that that team is serious, bro.

SPEAKER_01: 1:55:12

Well, I can say that you know, I've I've always kind of liked the Patriots simply because of Brady. Brady played for the Wolverine back in the day. So I I got I got some love for Brady, but um, ever since he left, I could give shit less.

SPEAKER_05: 1:55:26

So yeah, yeah. I mean Patriots, they play, they have they have a good, they play some good ball over there too. I just think their team is too slow on both sides of the ball to kind of hang with the Seahawks. But if they can somehow slow the game down, it'll be a very low-scoring, close game. If they let the Seahawks play the way they won't want to play, it's gonna be a blowout.

SPEAKER_01: 1:55:45

Okay. Well, you heard it here first because I sure if y'all betting people, if y'all bet, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:55:50

I just told you the game. That's the right thing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:55:52

All right, there it is. There's your there's your scores. So all right, brother. I appreciate you, everybody out there. Thanks for listening tonight. Uh and have a good night.