Are Police The Real Defenders Of The Constitution

A lot of people think policing is mostly about force, authority, and “taking control.” We see it differently. The real work is staying human while you’re tired, stressed, and surrounded by a culture that sometimes rewards cynicism, ego, and a follower mindset. Tonight we bring on Chuck and Tom from the Warlocker Show to talk honestly about what makes good cops better and what makes bad outcomes more likely, even when nobody means for things to go sideways. 

We dig into command presence as calm confidence (not cockiness), why debriefs and after-action reviews are a lost art, and how peer accountability can prevent the kind of mistakes that end careers and hurt communities. We also get into constitutional policing in plain language, including a powerful reframing: police are often the ones protecting constitutional rights at home by following them, especially around First Amendment encounters, searches, and everyday discretion that can’t be replaced by a spreadsheet. 

From drones as first responder and surveillance transparency to internal affairs done right, we push past slogans and deal with the messy reality of training, leadership, burnout, and officer wellness. If you care about police accountability, law enforcement training, community safety, or just want a real conversation that doesn’t turn into an echo chamber, this one is for you. Subscribe, share it with someone who argues about this stuff, and leave a review with the one change you think would make policing better.

Peregrine.io: Turn your worst detectives into Sherlock Holmes, head to Peregrine.io tell them Two Cops One Donut sent you or direct message me and I'll get you directly connected and skip the salesmen.

Transcript

Disclaimer And Content Warning

SPEAKER_04 0:00

One donut, I'm your quick disclaimer. The views and opinions you're about to hear are those of the hosts and guests alone. They don't represent any police department, agency, sponsor, or employer. Two Cops One Donut isn't responsible for anything said by guests or for any videos, clips, or content shown during the live stream. This show is intended for adult audiences only. We cover real incidents, we show graphic and sometimes disturbing footage, and we don't shy away from strong language or adult conversations. There may or may not also be alcohol involved. Viewer discretion is strongly advised. Everything you hear or see on the show is for entertainment and educational purposes. It is not legal advice and it's not tactical instruction. And it shouldn't be used for such. By continuing to watch, you're telling us that you understand, you accept all this. All right, now let's get into it.

Welcome And Guest Introductions

SPEAKER_04 0:52

All right, welcome back to Cops One Donut. I'm your host, Sergeant Eric Levine. I got with me as always my co-host, my main man, my slimmy slim, Mr. Banning Sweatland. What's up, buddy?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

What's up, brother?

SPEAKER_04 1:03

How much weight you lost so far?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

I'm down in the low 270s, and uh after next week, I'm gonna do another maybe 20-day fast. We'll see how that goes.

SPEAKER_04 1:12

20-day fast. That sounds miserable. Uh let me get to our special guest tonight. You guys may or may not know or have heard of the Warlocker show, uh, formerly known as what was War Stories Visual Podcast. Ward story. Okay, there we go.

SPEAKER_07 1:30

Uh we got two shows too, the locker room podcast, too.

SPEAKER_04 1:33

Nice. And uh I got the Chuck and Tom with me. What's going on, fellas?

SPEAKER_07 1:39

Oh man, just living the dream with my eyes open. I like it.

unknown 1:42

Mr.

SPEAKER_06 1:42

Chuck.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

Not much.

SPEAKER_06 1:44

One step closer to death every day.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

I aren't we all.

SPEAKER_07 1:48

Are you not using your good mic? You're using your uh regular one.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Yeah, you sound like you're talking through uh your camera or maybe your got it. Thanks. There we go.

SPEAKER_07 1:59

I hate it when I'm not on the right mic mic and nobody tells me, right? Then like 20 minutes in, so it's like, I don't think you're on the right mic.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

I didn't realize he had a mic, or I would have said something. I didn't see it.

SPEAKER_06 2:09

It's it's it's uh it's average size, so it's just it hangs out just a little bit under the screen.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Aren't we all uh except banning? I don't think there's anything small with banning. I just see the brain, man.

SPEAKER_07 2:25

I want to see the I want to see the buddy cop show of Chuck and Banning.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

I know, right? I bet they just fanboyed out about the Marine Joe, oh rah, rah, rah, crayons, crayons, crayons the whole time. Oh all right, guys. Um, for those listening tonight and who end up listening to the recording of this, no agenda tonight. All I wanted to do was uh bring these two fellas on and have them talk about themselves and talk about what they have going on. I kind of want you guys to know their background, as as the name kind of infers, there's a little bit of police, military, first responder world behind their personalities. And uh so without further ado, let my people get to know you guys. Who wants to go first?

SPEAKER_07 3:10

Tom, go for it. All right, okay, I got voluntold. Uh well, I'm retired police officer, uh, happily retired. I I tell people now

How War Stories Became Warlocker

SPEAKER_07 3:20

that I'm in my 12th year of recovery. Um my audience will love to hear you say that. I'm in my 12th year of recovery as a from being a police officer. Um and years and years ago, uh we started hanging out and doing a uh podcast, and in the middle of it, um of course all my buddies were veterans and cops and you know, whatever firefighters. And at some point, inevitably, it just devolves into swapping war stories, as it does. And so um I had a friend of mine who knew the show and he'd come on occasionally and he was not a codes musician. He texts me and he goes, bro, I just listened to the latest episode. I said, What? He goes, Switch what you're doing, stop what you're doing, just do that. And I said, What do you mean? He goes, That was the most fascinating 20 minutes I've ever listened to because I got to be a fly on the wall in a room full of people talking about the things that us normies aren't supposed to ask. Oh and I went and then years later, Chuck and everybody, and we'll we can talk about the locker room, how that and integrated later, but that's kind of where how I got here. All right, Chuck, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:31

So uh I'm uh Marine Corvette um and uh retired LAPD. Um did a career there. Right, yeah. I can tell them my agency now. Um I got retired a little bit uh a little bit ago, about a year uh ago. Um I got uh medical uh messed up my back and my knee pretty good, so they got a medical pension out of it. Um but it ever happens to pop at all. I don't know what you're talking about. No, um, it was good, it was it was uh interesting. Uh saw a lot of weird stuff happen, you know, in starting with before body cameras and then going into body cameras, doing handwritten logs, DFAR uh logs, um, and then going into like the automated stuff. That was definitely interesting, and seeing how it like policing's kind of changed and where it kind of used to be and where it was going and now where it is currently, and it's kind of interesting to see all that. Um, I've got a bachelor's degree and a master's in business, and uh a bunch of kids in a wife, in a wife, in a wife, oh yeah, with the same lady. Oh no, two different ones. Oh, okay. There's more of a cop answer. But I'm a true, a true cop. I've been divorced, remarried, have kids with both, pay child support, all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_04 5:49

That is absolutely a normal cop. Um, I have a friend, he's he's got four divorces. That's uh that's the highest recognition I've seen. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_07 6:02

I was always told that I was not gonna be a real cop until I drank coffee, had a mustache, and got my first divorce.

SPEAKER_04 6:08

I was too. Isn't that crazy? That's the culture of policing that when rookies get on, like that's the conversation that old salty dogs have with fresh rookies. Like, oh you'll be a real cop once you've once you got in your first fight. You'll be a real cop when you've got your first divorce, you'll be a real cop when uh, you know, you're you're going through IA. Like that's right. Why the fuck are we telling cops that?

SPEAKER_07 6:33

You're gonna be a real cop when your life gets shitty, is what we right that insert any form of shittiness at the end, and that's when they tell you you'll be a real cop.

SPEAKER_06 6:44

Sure. It it does teach you a lot though about uh having to gone through it. It does teach you a lot about uh who you are as a person and and your your your job as a cop, and it kind of brings everything into perspective really quick. Um, and it forces you to do to grow up. So there I think there is some truth behind it, but I think majority of it, you're gonna have shitty times as a law enforcement officer. This is just gonna hit a little bit different, a little bit harder. Um, you know, but uh I I think there is some truth behind it, but I also think there's a lot of bullshit behind it too. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

I know Banning's got something to say on this, but I'll go first um because it's my show. Uh so I know Banning's computer is a little glitchy, so he's he's reserving himself for when he really wants to talk. But I will say this about myself. I can only talk about my own career, right? Um, yeah. As much as that stuff was jammed down my throat figuratively, uh, and uh I'm an optimistic person by nature. Don't get me wrong, I do get my my stents of realism or uh cynicism, if you will, but very small, but for the most part, I should have been divorced. Uh I'm military and I'm a cop. I should have been divorced, right? Didn't happen. Um, should have never been married to the same girl that I've been with since basically seventh grade. Still am.

unknown 8:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 8:06

Uh great relationship. We have our two wonderful daughters. Um, and with all of the crap that I see, especially working for a big major city. I mean, Chuck, you get it. LAPD, that's is you know, it's what's that, the second largest uh back compared to New York?

SPEAKER_06 8:22

Third. Through the third, it goes New York, Chicago, then S. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Yeah. And in everybody when they talk about the major cities, it's those three. Um so for where I'm at, I'm in one of the 10 largest, but it doesn't hold a candle to those three. But still, it should, I shouldn't be, I shouldn't have the attitude I have. I shouldn't still have the drive to think that I can help bridge this gap, which is what this whole show is about. I shouldn't have any of this energy. I shouldn't. Uh yet here I am still very optimistic. I still think policing's great. I don't think the job is dead. Sorry, Copville, I know you're out there listening. Uh and there's like a lot of these, you know, Izzo is another dude. Um, you know, there's a lot of negative things to say. And it's not that I totally disagree with some of their takes on things, but for me, I can't have that defeatist attitude towards it. And I won't. And I think that staying positive is what's made this job so fun for me, my whole career. I just I love it. I don't look at it as a job. I really like what I do. Um, I think the people out there that follow us and and keep coming back every week, they and I think that's what's won them over, is the fact that I'm I am the way that I am. I am that way. And in Banning's personality, but I'll leave it at that. Banning, what do you got to say, brother?

SPEAKER_00 9:38

I just gotta say, like when we started doing this together, that's what I was able to identify in you is that you weren't a salty dog saying everything negative with administrations. You weren't, you still saw the reason on the day that you took the oath, like I do. We still take it seriously. Even though I'm retired now, I still talk to a whole bunch of rookie, mid-level, and veteran officers out there trying to give advice where I can uh for what that's worth. But uh man, I I absolutely love law enforcement. Does it, does it, can it screw you up if you don't have the proper outlets or uh proper talking channels? Absolutely. But uh I I too love law enforcement. I think that's why Eric and I are are good on many levels of this. We don't agree on everything, and that's another reason why we're we're together on stuff. Um, but it's great to have uh Eric as the main host of this. It's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 10:29

I'm

Toxic Cop Culture And Staying Positive

SPEAKER_04 10:30

gonna put our guest on the table. We were always like us on the top now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I want you to be a top.

SPEAKER_07 10:37

I like uh it makes good symmetry because we're dark and banning and chuck are light, and yeah, that's why I did it. There you go. Uh I you know, I I'll thank you, Sergeant Greg Dossy. Um, Sergeant Greg Dossy, uh our academy coordinator. And uh I swear to you, this man, you remember that game Mike Tyson's punch out? You played that von Kaiser guy, he had that big handlebar red handlebar mustache and big red hair. Looks exactly like that. This man looks exactly like that character, right? But he was you know tough as nails. He did all the workouts with us as a retired old salty dog. But credit to Sergeant Dossie for giving us the condo in Redondo speech. And the condo in Redondo was this fictional thing. Redondo Beach is this beautiful area outside of Los Angeles. I'm sure people have heard of it, it's very famous. And you can't, I mean, you can't I couldn't ever afford no retired cop could probably afford to live in Redondo Beach, but the idea of having a condo somewhere, having a goal, having a retirement. He his idea was I want to retire to Redondo Beach in a condominium, right? And so have an end goal. And then he said, and never give up your friends who aren't cops, right? And always keep those friends, don't let them go away. Sergeant, you're here, easier with us in spirit. Oh, maybe I can find a real picture of him. Uh, but anyway, he he said, you know, have a life outside this and don't let your friends become just cops, because that will fuck you up.

SPEAKER_04 12:11

So I like that. I like that. Um I I don't really hang out with cops.

SPEAKER_06 12:18

I mean, other than the show.

SPEAKER_04 12:20

So uh I really do.

SPEAKER_06 12:21

By why you're so like level-headed and you have such a great outlook and had such a like awesome, like that's awesome. Like having having your wife like almost since middle school or since middle school. That's that's that's that's you're right. You shouldn't have that, that shouldn't be a thing, right? Because military, law enforcement, all the things that work against you, but you know, um, and I but I think it's that disposition that you have that allows that to work so well, and you know, um I would love to to see more cops with that that disposition because the job is a great job, you know. And I think when you start getting really down on yourself, that's when the the bad things that really start happening to yourself. You stop caring, you stop doing certain things. It might not, it's definitely not law enforcement, it's it's definitely certain areas that we kind of you know that happens at you know, like other agencies, not every agency is the best agency to work for. And yeah, you know, I think that having people that are um so like upbeat around you really creates a positive atmosphere for everyone to thrive in, and it and it keeps them, you know, with more morale happier. I've worked in both areas and I got so angry working with a partner, he was so happy all the time. And I was like, dude, you gotta stop. Like this is making me feel things, stop it. Like you're it's weird, stop. And next thing I know, I keep working with him, and he's a classmate of mine, and we were just laughing. It just it was a weird transition because you'd work with so many negative people that working with someone like that almost was annoying because it's making you feel things you probably haven't felt in a minute, and then you start feeling that you're like happy, and then you see it affect so many other people. So, you know, that's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

Um, I want to give a shout out to Mr. Billfold. He dropped five bucks in the super chat. He said, Eric wants to make policing better. I want to keep it from getting worse. Uh the LEO culture is toxic from the roots, but I think we want the same outcomes, and I appreciate that, Mr. Billfold. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_07 14:11

Um, Mr. Billfold just is having a violent agreement with you, right? Wanting to make policing better is, you know, it's okay. Yeah, that's how you make policing not get worse.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Yep. I and I I'm gonna address the elephant of the room that just kind of clicked in my head as we were having this conversation.

Follower Mindset Ego And Command Presence

SPEAKER_04 14:31

I would tend to say that police have a sheep-like mindset, follower mindset, and that may be the discussion tonight. Because if you think about it, what is what does the rookie do? They're what do we tell people? You're very impr when you become a rookie, you are very uh impressionable by two major things, your FTO and your academy. And those two culturally and generally oppose each other, because when you're in the academy, they're like, this is what it's gonna be like out in the streets, and they they they they have you at the peak of hypervigilance, right? They everything is gonna kill you when you're in the academy. And then when you get out to the streets, we realize that ain't true. Uh, but it's good because you're ultimately when when you train way up here, and then you're not in that training environment anymore. And this is any job, this isn't just policing. We there's like a kind of middle area. We we some of us regress really bad, but most of us we fall back down into like this middle area. Uh and then you get with your FTO, who is probably the most impressionable person on you. And that that that culture in policing is that your FTO is the realist. He's gonna let you know what's real about police work, right? And unless they're a trainer that has only been in the field a year or two themselves, uh, then then they they just don't know.

SPEAKER_07 16:00

Then your department screw up.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

Yeah, then they just they just don't have the experience, and I'm not gonna blame them for for that. But uh that is that I think that is the definition of being a follower. When it when we start looking, when you really look at it, let's be very critical on ourselves. When you really look at it, you think a great cop is that salty guy, and that's what you want to be, and then you do why are all of us falling down this path? It I get it, there's a lot of trauma in the job, and that has a lot to do with it too. But if we are so strong-minded and so willing to live up to this oath that we swore to, why do we have such a follower fucking mindset when it comes to crack ID? When it comes to getting that ID, when it comes to it's 2026, we still can't get a fucking First Amendment auditor situation right. We're still going up to them fucking that up. Like how ego exactly, that's my point, and that's where this follower mindset comes in.

SPEAKER_07 16:57

What is your ego? So you think the ego is what gives you the because I would say, I mean, a lot of cops are for myself, right? I am a um I'll be a useful adversary, right? I'll be a sounding board for my I will say the uncomfortable part to my boss, even to this day, and my retirement gig, stuff like that. I will voice it respectfully. I will, you know, and then with the paramilitary, though, that thing takes over. And when you tell me what the mission is and you tell me what the marching orders are, it's time for me to take my ego out of it and go do that, right?

SPEAKER_04 17:29

Right.

SPEAKER_07 17:30

The only time that I I think I think cops have to make that inventory is what my dad always told me. My dad's a retired cop from Chuck's agency. He said, if it's not illegal, immoral, unethical, or against the law, you you do it. And so I think there's a little bit of that. Maybe they don't have a follower, maybe it's not unnatural because they go out as a cop and they're an alpha and then whatever you want to call it, or they're a hard charger, or they make all these decisions, you know. But then when they get back to safe and they get back home and they get back to their their cocoon of the station or the the community, that's the opinions that matter, right? Those are the people now that matter. And so now we're like, there's the there's only one group of people in the world we want to uh uh make happy, and that's either the chief, and that you know, you're the guy who promotes real easy, or that's the um the uh uh old salty guy, and you just want to make all the old dudes impressed, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Yeah, I I I think that's a good take. Uh Craig said, Hey Eric, why's Chuck have your pillow? Hey, listen, we got bedside manner here. We don't talk about that on the on the show, guys.

SPEAKER_07 18:38

Let's uh let's just say he's got a very explanatory.

SPEAKER_04 18:42

He's got a he's got a very warm beard.

SPEAKER_07 18:44

Um has the nicest beard I've ever come across.

SPEAKER_06 18:50

Oh wow, thank you. I think that is real cool.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Wow, all right.

SPEAKER_06 18:55

I mean I'll I'll I'll say this. Um, and I know uh banning you were you know a sheriff and uh top top cop, right? Like uh, and I'm sure your agency, you have a lot to speak on this, and I would I really want to hear that, but um and I kind of want to go first just so that I could hear your take on it and see if you can you know have any any any words of wisdom too. Uh I'm sorry if I stepped on you.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Um no, you're good.

SPEAKER_06 19:23

But um working at a larger agency, you know, at a or a whatever, um, I've seen the follower mindset for sure where cops can't make a decision, they're they're inexperienced, they're timid, and it's dangerous as shit. But then I've also seen the cops that can fall into that category, but they even they look like they're an alpha, right? They look like they're a tough, they're they've got it together, they just have an attitude problem. And I've seen that a lot through inexperience and projecting your inexperience through your attitude.

SPEAKER_09 19:50

Oh, my badge is this big, right?

SPEAKER_06 19:52

And it it creates a toxic environment um with other cops who are younger and they see this guy, he's got two and a half, three years on the job, and they're a brand new boot straight out of FTO, right? Maybe they got wheeled into a new division and they're they're brand new, and they see this other guy, they look up to him, you know, he's wearing his hash mark, you know, a year early type of guy, um, and comes off on every uh incident and he's motherfucking everybody and doing all this stuff, and he's like, I'm coming. You see, no, you're you're a coward sometimes, you know, and because you're you're doing all this stuff and you're creating enemies, you're doing all this BS, right? That you don't need to be doing. And the I found that out because I started falling in that category, right? Where I was inexperienced and I thought that showing and hiding my inexperience, I can come off with an attitude. And I had an OG gangster sit down um and basically school me on it, and that's what opened my eyes. And ever since then, I tried preaching all that to everybody else. You know, you know your shit. You're gonna you're gonna, if you come off as with this big ego and attitude, they're gonna know right off the bat that you're brand new. So you're trying to hide your projection or you're trying to hide your inexperience, but you're really just projecting uh a big street lamp that says, I'm brand new, I'm a rookie, I'm a boot type of stuff. And you catch more honey with uh or you catch more flies with honey, right? Or catch more bees with honey. Um uh it's true, like being nice to people and and having respect for them, even if you don't really respect them, but having them believe that you respect them, you get way more information that way. Um, less people try to fight you uh because they're like, oh, he he he's he's all right, but I don't like cops, you know. But they don't they're not on his edge, you know, and you can kind of talk them into submission, right? It's just I mean that's I I think there's a lot of that go that's going around, and then you have the older someone said it earlier that less FT or more FTOs are are really brand new, right? Well, I think that's a a lot of it is too from the more senior guys are like I've seen I've seen shit happen, I've seen, you know, maybe it's their agency or whatever, and they're just like, I'm not gonna do that, or they give their stripes back and they're like, I'm done. I've seen that a lot too, where they just don't want to put up with the BS anymore because they're sick and tired of the recruits that are coming out in uh into all officers and they're just. Horrible, or they're hard to train, or they're untrainable, they have attitudes and they start beefing everybody. It's just it's crazy. So maybe that's also uh factored into that, too.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

Yeah. I I think you kind of described a little bit of that. That people don't look at it as following, but like you said, you saw somebody else doing that, and you found yourself doing that, that negative attitude. Like I I gotta say, and again, I you can only go off your own experience, but for me, I saw that. You know, my dad was a cop too. He retired from the same department that I'm at. 30 years as a police officer, you know, we got to work together for a little bit, but I saw all his friends go down that path. It was either alcoholism, getting addicted to some sort of pharmaceutical thing, DWI getting fired, uh, divorces, all that shit. And then I just looked at kind of all the common factors, and it was kind of some of the stuff that we talked about. So I proactively from day one that I knew I was gonna be a cop, like I just did the opposite. I'm like, it doesn't work. The the stuff that all these salty veterans say makes you a good cop, it doesn't work because look at your life. So I just kind of did the opposite. But um, I want to get over to uh auto. We had auto on the show three weeks ago, maybe. Um, auto, if you guys aren't familiar, uh, and I can get you guys connected with him if you're ever interested in a very cool, funny ass guest, by the way. Dude, he should, I if he's not a professional comedian, he absolutely should be because he fucking roasted. I mean, he took it easy on us, but he roasted us and it was hilarious. Um, but he's mostly known for his First Amendment audit stuff that he does, and it's fucking funny stuff. But auto dropped five bucks in the super chat and he said, I had the cop roll up to me last week playing, I fought the law and the law one on his loudspeaker before arresting me. It's 2026.

SPEAKER_07 23:43

We expect the police rolling up to a search warrant.

SPEAKER_04 23:47

I'm not gonna lie. Uh, even though that cop was probably wrong, auto, it's still that is kind of funny, you gotta admit. Um, and then Ariel dropped another five bucks in the super chat uh and said, uh, well, is there command presence versus a pushover? Yes, that's actually a very good point. Um, command presence is to me, command presence is not fumbling over your words, actually knowing what you're talking about and not trying to fake it till you make it. Faking it till you make it can get you through certain things, don't get me wrong. But if you want command presence, you can't be faking it till you make it. You got to know what you're talking about, and you just have to be clear and concise. It doesn't mean you have to be intimidating. It can mean as little as like you guys know me and my podcast voice, but if I come up and I'm like, hey, I'm Sergeant Levine. Right now we are dealing with an issue over here that I can't tell you much about, just somebody got severely hurt. We have not had time to set up our crime scene tape yet. I'm going to need you to stay behind that curb line that I'm pointing to right there. Can you see what I'm talking about? I need you to give me a verbal yes or no. If you don't understand, I'll explain it better and I'll go over here and point it to you. Now I need you to stand behind this until we can get our crime scene tape up. Are we clear? Do you have any questions?

SPEAKER_07 25:05

If First Amendment auditors bother you, what are you doing wrong?

SPEAKER_04 25:10

Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 25:11

Yeah. So wait, let's go into that command presence, right? Let's talk about because you said command presence versus being a pushover, right? Well, I was never, ever a pushover, right? Um, but that command presence thing, when you ask about, you know, what's what is command presence? Well, can you can you understand the difference between confidence and cockiness? Because that's a fine line. But command presence is confidence, but it is not cockiness, right? I I had a kid, young guy, loved him to death. He was one of my uh explorers and went to the academy at 19 years old. You loved him until he died?

SPEAKER_04 25:48

Was that you said you loved him to death.

SPEAKER_07 25:51

Uh yeah, loved him to death. It's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_04 25:54

You said Chuck had the best beard you came across. I'm just trying to figure out your words tonight.

SPEAKER_07 25:58

I'm really rough on people, is what I'm saying. Sorry, I'm sorry. So he uh, you know, he's 19 years old, gets out of the academy at 20 and a half, gets hired at 20, can't own a firearm, right? Legally because it was 21, but the department could issue him one and he could, you know, have it while he's on duty and all that kind of stuff. He's so young, he's so inexperienced, doesn't have any life experience. Everybody he went up against it was gonna be a fight. Every single person, because he had to prove that he was in charge. I never felt like I had to prove that I was in charge. I just was in charge. I showed up, I was in charge, I didn't worry about it. Like, hey, this is what it is, and that that's that confidence of you know your case law, you know your you know your constitution. The military is not the defenders of the constitution, the military goes out and fights elsewhere. Police officers are the defenders of the constitution because your constitutional rights don't apply in other countries. Your body goes with you, but your rights don't. Constitution only applies to you here.

SPEAKER_04 26:58

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's not gloss, let's not gloss over that. Say that again.

SPEAKER_07 27:03

Police officers are the true defenders of the constitution. Because the c your constitutional rights don't go overseas where the military fight. Your body goes, your rights don't. Your rights apply here. Well, who the hell is protecting things here? Police officers. The one who's supposed to make sure your first amendment right isn't getting violated is a police officer. The one who's supposed to make sure they're getting an F and warrant before they hit your door is a police officer. Those are constitutional rights, and we protect them by following them. And that's what's supposed to make us better than the bad guy is that we do it right.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

That is okay. I am clipping the shit out of that. That was fucking. I've never heard anybody put it that way. I'm gonna be honest, I never heard anybody put it that way. You're blowing my mind right now. Sorry, I apologize figuratively. You're just blowing hard on people, I guess. That is, I mean, the that and people wonder why I get so mad in some of my my reaction videos and stuff, uh, about cops overstepping on the Constitution. I don't believe that it's their intention to do that, but I also most of them. There are some that absolutely I just think ego and just asshole right. Contempt of cop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, pissed off police, whatever you want to call it. Ego again. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Yes. Um, one thing I I I think Chuck was also kind of asking a question on that a moment ago. Um, and I'm gonna kind of speak just my opinion on this. And and when you have guys like that that just have that overblown ego out there, and you're seeing them call to call to call, I'm usually looking at my corporals and my lieutenants. Who is his FTO? Is he an FTO? Does he need to be pulled from that because he's teaching the wrong shit? Um, and that goes with watching the body camera and the dash cam videos. You know, if your agency has a proper personnel that are on the side, they're supposed to be looking at these things to catch these kinds of problems. Does he need to be retrained? You know, and if and if you have that egotistical fucking asshole out there that's acting like that, yes, either you get retrained, you get with the program, or you get the fuck off the streets. Excuse my French on it. Absolutely. It is going. Well, I mean, it's it's it's a big deal. And I and I've had to check a lot of people before even more stripes, uh, or going up even further. You you've got to be that person on there. Just even as a canine officer with about five or six years on experience. I had a lot of young bucks coming up to me asking for advice because I did patrol before canine. And a lot of them, they would allow me to lead the beginning of their call so they could learn why there'd be a domestic uh uh I call it a schoolyard fight, you know, two guys fighting outside a bar. I mean, what's the best way to handle this? You know, that ego doesn't have to come into check. When you come in there with with true leadership and you're squared away and your uniform is is uh dressed to impress and you got shine boots and you have that presence, that should be enough. Do you have to amp up your voice sometimes? Yeah, but you don't have to be a dick. And um, there was a time, probably about year six, year seven, I hit a brick wall. And I think most people know of that brick wall that you hit around seven to ten years of I keep arresting the same people, the the prosecution system, the DA is not doing their job, and then you somehow get motivated, get past that, and your motivation builds back up again. And this is something that that I'm I'm guys that are the same rank, it's your friggin' duty to check your friggin' peers out there on the street. And if you don't have the balls to check your friggin' peers, are you in the right profession?

unknown 30:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

I don't know how many guys and gals that I pulled aside and the call is done with, and there was nothing for me to ill, you know, check in on them doing something illegal, but you're just being an asshole. Let's pull them aside and talk to them. Give them some the you know that true peer pressure that's gonna make them uh last longer on the street.

SPEAKER_06 30:53

And can I ask a question to to to piggyback

Debriefs And Peer Checks After Calls

SPEAKER_06 30:56

on that? Sure. Um, and I know I know Eric, you're you're currently still um doing the Lord's work out there uh every every day, you know what I mean? Um the rest of us retired guys, you know. Um, but I I I see a lot of that checking happen, you know, um on my last department, and we used to do it uh in my when I first got there. Um, and then I was on probationary period and you know for a whole year, and we did it constantly at this one division, and it was debriefs, tactical debriefs after the incident, right away with everybody who's involved. So emotions are still fresh, knowledge is fresh. We we do it right then, right there. And you no, no rank at all. Everyone gets checked, everyone, you know. Hey, you speak up if they did good, you speak up if they did bad, if there was any officer safety issues, because we need to have this shit wired tight because we need to make sure that no one else gets hurt or that no one gets hurt in the future, right? Or keep it from getting hurt. Um, and it kept us on our toes, and it I feel like it brought us all together because everyone's getting checked, and sergeants, um, you know, other people like that, FTOs are getting checked um by you know, brand new cops and or cops that have been, you know, on patrol for a while, and everyone's you know, feeling on a level playing field. And I thought that brought us together, but it also um kept people's egos from getting overblown, you know. And then I seen it happen when I was on in another division that didn't do it all the time, and I was like, screw that, I'm bringing it back. And you checked one person, they got this overblown attitude and they got really defensive. Like, why are you attacking me? I'm like, I'm not attacking you, like this. We need to learn from this. This was unsafe, right? And and I was like, man, why don't they do this more often? Is does your agency currently do this? And banning, did your agency do that? And do you believe that it um brought the officers closer? Or you know, how did you think that that happened? Or if they didn't do it, do you think it could um make uh better police officers?

SPEAKER_04 32:54

Want me to go first, or you want to go first?

SPEAKER_06 32:56

Yeah, go ahead, Eric.

SPEAKER_04 32:57

Okay, so um debriefing, absolutely, but that is a lost art amongst sergeants. Um I have seen, and this is what keeps me very hopeful, I've seen the regular officers in the streets doing it on their own, just like, hey, let's go talk about that call. And I'm like, fuck yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Like, I I love seeing that. Um, that's what the art of the side by side was always designed to do, I think. Uh, for those listening, and you're like, what the fuck's he talking about? The side by side. After the call, and we don't have another call holding, uh, we go pull off an empty lot somewhere, and you'll see us pull up next to each other, you know, driver to driver. Um, and we're discussing the call. One of us is if there's a report, one of us is writing the report out, but we're talking about, all right, man, hey, that's domestic. Like, you went around the corner. I lost sight of you. Like, you can't do that to me anymore. Like, don't like at least stay an eye shot or give me a like, hey man, I'm okay or something. Let me know. Like, stuff like that. So, yes, the debrief, lost art. Um, but I I don't see it going away. I just think it it has to be emphasized. It's one of those things that kind of ebbs and flows. It's like people really see the benefit of it, then it just flows through the whole department, and then it just kind of dies down. And like, why are we sucking? Oh, we're not debriefing. We need to start debriefing. So, um, to answer that part of your question, um I got sidetracked and forgot what the second part of the question was. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06 34:14

Um, do you think it would make better cops if it happened more frequently?

SPEAKER_04 34:18

Oh, okay, yes. Absolutely. I mean, hands down. Hands down. No brainer. Yeah, I think that's a no-brainer. I just think it'll make better cops. Um, Benning, you go, and then when you get done, we got to get to some of these comments because we had somebody drop 50 bucks in the super chat.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

Uh, and we had another person reach out over on Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

So yeah, just real quickly, Chuck, on on mine, the the last agency I worked for, which was a small county agency, I don't think they knew what the word debrief was. There was no, I hate to use military terminology of an after-action report. It was we got done with a messy call. It could have been an officer-involved shooting, and everybody just kind of 10-8, go for service. I'm like, whoa, what are you what's going on here? You know, let's bring this back in and huddle. And they're like, Well, you can watch my video video, Cam later. It's it's it's uh it's our time for, and what they used to call it here was Signal 12, it's time to, it's time to go to lunch. And um and anyway, so I started enacting that here. I know what it is, I know what it is where you're at, brother. And it's where it was at I was at previous. Um but anyway, it it it did, it wasn't enacted. And I feel once I enacted that uh just at just at the mid-upper level, it made guys really appreciate now they knew how to work through the call during the call, instead of just getting a ride-up or drug into IAA a week later, they're learning. And then I would also do on on quiet nights, we would do scenario-based training. So we would be in the high school, in the elementary school. I would bring out actors and we would do things. Obviously, there's a safety component, it's we had to do it very safely with a safety component, but they weren't getting scenario-based training uh at the small academies that they go through in this part of uh North Texas. So I brought in scenario-based training, and they're like, man, I think I did this once on a felony traffic stop in in uh the academy class. And that was the only scenario-based, I'm like, you're gonna be kidding me. So I started enacting that, and then you started seeing a lot better numbers, a lot more compliments coming through dispatch or in the mail on the on the deputies, as opposed to they did this, this, and this to me. You had to communicate up and down that uh leadership levels because if you didn't, your guys are just coming to work for a job. And then if your guys are just coming to work for a friggin' job, you got a problem if they've lost that honest accountability.

SPEAKER_04 36:39

I like that. I believe I'm with you on that. Um so over on uh Instagram, hey guys, if you're on Instagram or TikTok watching us, um, we appreciate it. One of the things that we are trying to do is get all of you that do watch us over there, because it's harder for us to participate with y'all, to jump over to our YouTube channel. So that's what we're trying to funnel you guys over there. I don't mean to to to pick your platform for you, but it does make things harder to respond to Instagram. Yeah, yeah. So um uh to the Zeke, uh BJJ. Uh he's a Brazilian guy, uh Brazilian jujitsu practitioner that I follow um over on Instagram. But he said, How often do you see someone get a crappy call to respond, clear it, then carry the same energy to the next call at their detriment? Holy shit. That that's when we start seeing the burnout, and we should start reaching out to the officers and be like, bro, can't come with that energy on my calls. Like, you gotta relax.

SPEAKER_07 37:33

Like, well, it they don't this it's not you, right? Right, it's a uniform. They don't know you, right? You're a nothing is personal in this job, right? I I feel like more cops need to watch Roadhouse, you know? They need to see the scene where Patrick Swayze calls the dude out and he goes, What? Somebody calls your mother a whore and it's not personal. And he goes, I don't know, is she?

SPEAKER_03 37:54

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_07 37:56

Right. But so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

Anyway, yeah, so I'm with you. I agree. Um, and then I want to get to this one. Trevor Francis, 1984, over on YouTube, said uh, for 50 bucks in the super chat, which is holy shit, that doesn't happen often on here. So thank you so much. Uh none of the money that we get goes into our pockets, it goes right into the show. So thank you very much. But Trevor said, How do we keep cops human? Stoked for DFR. That's your drone first responder, which I'm a big part of that uh in the industry. So when you guys are talking about DFR, if you ever have questions or you ever want to know what I'm out there trying to do for it in the space, I will talk about it with you. Um, but uh anyway, um said not stoked for the first robots that'll roll out, whenever that may be. It's coming. Uh I'm worried that the measured sacrifice you just mentioned on the salty old vet is what will usher in the robot asshole. Ah, that's a good take. Robots are going to be a thing, guarantee.

SPEAKER_07 38:59

I'd love to, I'd love to hit this one real quick.

Discretion Versus Spreadsheet Policing

SPEAKER_07 39:02

All right. Um so a big component of that, I think, Beli, is is what do you believe the role of a police officer is? Really. At its fundamental core, right? Do you believe that a police officer's job is just, you know, uh arrest people, right? I I put people in jail and I enforce the rules because that's that's the role. Or is it, oh, my job is to protect people, right? Oh, that's another different mindset. But if your job is preserve social order while protecting constitutional rights and human dignity under chaotic conditions, that's probably it, right? That's the sweet spot where you know you're like, okay, look, I my my dad said your job is to keep the dipshits from the assholes, right? There's dipshits and assholes in the world, and when they dipshits can dipshit together and assholes can asshole together, and there is no problems. But whenever a dipshit and an asshole get together, things get gross. So let the assholes go be assholes, let the dipshits go be dipshits, and keep them apart, son.

SPEAKER_04 40:09

I think uh team America said it better, but that's a good point. If you remember, you remember. Yes, yes, dicks pussies and asshole.

SPEAKER_07 40:18

Yes. If you start to think in terms of metrics, right? Arrests, if you start to look at UCR data, arrest data, all that kind of stuff. If you police by a spreadsheet, then you take the human side out of them. Yeah, right. Because uh, you know, good cops that's what makes them good cops. They're humans capable of the most beautiful word in policing discretion.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_07 40:49

And a lot of people don't have it because a seasoned cop who knows what the shit he is doing can look at a crying drunk at 2 a.m. in a parking lot that he shouldn't be there and go, hmm, this guy might not be a predator, he might be a poor guy that's about to lose his wife, right? Yeah, but it's it's it's understanding pattern recognition, but also having empathy and knowing human consequence, not spreadsheet consequence. So if you get to spreadsheet policing, there's your fucking robot. Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 41:19

No, you're good. I I I want to get back because Mr. Billfold had a good um comment. I'm gonna pop it up here in a second, but to your cops are the ones that are defending the constitution, not the military. So I want to ask you two this question as seasoned police officers in your entire careers, other than the academy and maybe some college that you went through. What constitutional training did you get? Whether it be annual 40-hour training.

SPEAKER_07 41:52

Uh I think Eric went a little sideways because of the thunderstorm. I got legal update training. I don't know about you, Chuck. Did you get legal update?

SPEAKER_06 42:01

Um, we had a bunch of uh California Post trainings that we had to do every single year. Uh uh the LMS training, which is just a learning management system training that we would have to do, and all these new updates would come out um and and notices and special orders would come out or updates to the special orders. And you know, if you had good uh leadership, they're like, hey, you take some time today and get this done, but then it's you know, and and then that would just you would take it, you would acknowledge it, you'd see the new special order, the update to the special order, and that special order could just be like a notice of, hey, this law is changing, you're gonna have to, you know, you know, follow these things, or hey, the law has changed on this, make sure that our policy has gone from this to this with use of force and this to this for um, you know, um searching and this to this for stopping vehicles and this to this for searching vehicles, we make you acknowledge all that stuff. So we got a lot of that stuff constantly, but it got to a point where you got so busy, understaffed, overworked, and you were still expected to go through all this training every year. And then it got to a point where you're like, I'm not having time to do it, and you don't have time during the day, and then you asked to, hey, can I do this at home? Can I just claim like you know four hours of you know OT at home or to do it after work, not at home, I'm sorry, but to do it after work. And some of these things you could do at home because it's through California Post, and all you have to do is log on with your username and password. Um, so we got some of that. We we definitely did get a lot of uh training on that. You know, you got a lot of the academy training, which was um so many hours, and I couldn't spit a number out there, I'd just be lying to you. Um, and then there was frequent California Posts that you know were um like 30, 40, 60 hours or whatever how many hours they were, they're a good amount every year or every few years uh for an update. So I mean that was a frequent thing. I don't think it's like that for every agency, though. I really don't.

SPEAKER_07 43:52

No. And when I say legal update, I mean they would constitutional law, they'd talk about case law, they'd talk about new stuff coming out. Um, we would get, you know. Legitimate updates on stuff like that. And you need to. If you're not, if you're not getting it, your department is failing you. Yep. Well, I mean, how many departments are failing their officers because they're not doing training? Probably most of them, right? Let's be honest. Training is I have a theory. I pretty I pitched this. Chuck, remember when we had we had our first uh we had a chief of police, not our first chief, we had a chief of police on, it was our first female chief on. And I pitched to her an idea, and she was like, you know what? If you ever get any traction with that, I'll support it. And I said, cops should be required to go police for 11 months, and then for one month go back to the academy. And while there for a month, like get legal update training, get skills training, make sure their physical fitness is great, but also have structured debriefs, have some group therapy sessions, right? Like that are looking like structured debriefs, you know. Because let's face it, we know that on our show, we always joke that I hate group therapy, but I'm perfectly willing to participate in it as long as we call it a podcast, right?

SPEAKER_00 45:04

So and and here in the state of Texas, and y'all can still hear me, right? Yes, absolutely. I've got some weather too, so I apologize if y'all lose me. Eric's trying to get back on. There's a group text between the the four of us he just sent out, so y'all know he's trying to come back in. Um here in Texas, they have a 40-hour mandated uh training. So, and and part of that for every two years is you you have to do the legislative updates. Um and the legislative updates are great. Every officer in the state needs to understand that. And I believe it's the same in Oklahoma, Louisiana, New Mexico as well. I have to double check. Um, but you don't see hardly any large or small agencies in the state of Texas doing the constitutional training and and getting kind of highlights from a lot more people globally or or nationwide, I should say, ever since I've been on the show with Eric, it it is a problem. Um the constitutional training now kind of rests in the FTO if the if the academies aren't aren't pulling the weight on it. I mean, that's that's my whole thing, is uh is our FTOs have got to be in check. So therefore the chief or sheriff of every agency needs to make sure that that is being enacted in all phases, including Ghost phase, to make sure our guys and gals that are that are new out there are actually getting the proper training.

SPEAKER_07 46:27

Yeah, I would agree. And I well, training, training, train, like train, train, train, train, train, train, train. You will I always tell um the people I teach, you never no one has ever risen to the occasion. Not once. They have always fell to their lowest level of training every time. You know, when you see somebody who quote unquote rose to the occasion, he did not, or she did not. They prepared.

SPEAKER_06 46:49

I I mean, training is oh man, I wish more agencies had more active training. I mean, I knew I can only speak for my agency, and I thought this was really good, better than other places because my dad was CHP, friends were other agencies, and they didn't have to go and shoot as much as us and do um scenario drills. So every uh every two deployment periods, you would have to go and do a handgun. And then once per year, you'd have to do shotgun. And then another time per throughout the year was like June or July, you would have to do uh FOSS force option simulation, right? And you would run you through if you had good training staff, they would run you through um the FOSS options and you'd spend like 30 minutes and they'd put you through a bunch of different scenarios. Shoot, don't shoot, never even pull your gun out, type of scenarios, and you have to articulate it and debrief the call basically after each one, give your disposition, your dispo. And I thought that was really good. And you got to a point where you were doing this, you know, a few years in, and if you had really good staff, you would really see it, and it helped me be way better, especially when you're constantly training shoot scenarios. When you actually get into that shooting, it makes it like repetition, and it's less um I think there's less um uh hesitation. You know what you have to do, your bodies and minds already been conditioned to do it. So you see it, the threat's presented, you take action, it's done. Officers go home safely, suspect goes to jail or to the morgue, and people live, right? That are supposed to. And I think that that is a really good officer safety thing. And I I know I don't see many cops doing it. And my buddy runs a forced option simulation company or Nett runs it, but he's uh like one of the directors for it and does a lot of traveling, and he's telling me all the time how many, how many agencies don't have it, and they're trying to get into those agencies and then upgrade the other ones that currently do have it and trying to get them to switch their provider and and and all that stuff. But I also think that's um, you know, when it comes to things like that, it's people being in positions that shouldn't be in positions, right? Um it does don't know how to write grants to get these trainings, um, aren't running it because you don't need all that wazoo stuff. You can run it in-house. Um, to have people, the senior guys and training staff or the sergeants or whatever run your younger guys through this frequently and do all these different trainings. I think that's it's really good. And that falls on the leadership portion. And I I, you know, um, and places that aren't doing it, I think it's falling short because of the leadership is not there and it's the inaction and they're just in it, and they shouldn't probably be in that position. And I I I really saw this um in uh my career that I'm in now. Um, people in positions that shouldn't be in positions, and just because you get promoted to a management role doesn't mean you're a manager, it doesn't mean you're a leader because you and then they keep thinking they have to manage people. You don't manage people. We learned it in the Ring Corps. You lead people, you manage like tasks, um, assignments. You don't manage the people, you lead them, you lead from the front and by example. And I think that's falling by the wayside far too often, too much. And I and I knew it was happening in law enforcement, and I saw it happen in the company that I work for now, and I was like, oh my god, this is everywhere. This is like a systemic problem, and it's crazy. And I don't know why that's happening, but you know, I think it's has a lot to do with it.

SPEAKER_07 50:01

Well, I I'm gonna look at I've looked at some of the chat here, Chuck. And what I found was interesting is uh uh Mr. Bilfold says some of the uh really egregious examples of ego-driven misconduct have zero to do with training deficiencies and just everything to do with abuse of authority. And I a hundred percent agree because then uh somebody else, I think it was Lacey or when you other people said um it or uh that is more than some, right? And I would say really egregious, a lot of those really egregious, you can track almost all of those down to ego because if it's egregious as opposed to just an and the really egregious ones usually are deliberate. If somebody's not being deliberate about it, if they're not being intentional, you know, it's and it's a mistake, it's an honest mistake, it's usually not as terrible, maybe, of an outcome. But we do have to look at those people. The thing is, is what's their heart? Everybody says, well, it's just a few bad apples, and to some extent, that's true, but to some extent we also have to look at what is systemic, what's corporate in law enforcement. That's we talked about it a little bit earlier, which is that um salty veteran having too much sway on the young guys. I'll I'll ask you guys this what's more dangerous? A 30-year veteran with a sl with slick sleeves and a bad attitude, or a three-year veteran with a seven foot tall badge. Because I'll I will take a 30-year veteran with a bad attitude on a call over the three-year veteran with a gigantic badge any day.

SPEAKER_04 51:31

A hundred percent. Can you guys hear me?

SPEAKER_07 51:33

Yeah, I can't really okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:35

It's not registering my audio around my picture. You know how you can see it lights up green when you're talking, but yeah, we're gonna be a good idea.

SPEAKER_06 51:42

Yeah, sorry about that because you turn your camera off.

SPEAKER_04 51:44

Yeah, I had a lightning strike and just it just I was in mid-sentence and I was like, fuck right away. So Ariel, yeah. Ariel, thank you very much for the five bucks. He said, What about running tricky constitutional scenarios? So I was in the middle. Uh now I remember, I was in the middle, uh, asking you guys, like, what constitutional training did you guys have? I don't know how far you went with that.

SPEAKER_07 52:09

We went deep. We went deep. Okay. So we we talked about legal update. We talked about how you need half legal update. We had legal update, we had you know constitutional update, all that kind of stuff. And you you have to have that.

SPEAKER_04 52:20

Right. And the majority of the country, I would say, the consensus is that they don't get much constitutional training. And I I'll be I'll put it to you this way. I don't think a lot of the legal courses that we're taking when it's case law updates, not necessarily really harping on constitution

Constitutional Training And The Oath

SPEAKER_04 52:40

as much as it is what what it involves with a search and a seizure, which is typically what most of the case law we go over is search and seizure or use of force. Um, but they're not really, they're not going down the constitution and be like, all right, Eighth Amendment, this is what we're doing, this is this, this is what the Eighth Amendment says. Because if I walk up to a cop and just kind of I don't want to test him on a verbatim test. I don't ever think that's the right way to go. And there's too many people that really, well, he doesn't know the first amendment. Uh, does he? Or just does he know the elements? If he's if he's able to knock off the five or even top three of the first amendment, all right. Uh he doesn't need to know him verbatim, he knows what he's talking about. Um, but does he know how to apply him? Does he know what it said? And and then Mr. Bilford had a comment. So I kind of this is what triggered the thought in my head. He said, the Lord's work building out the spy state infrastructure for the man. I love Eric. We need some voice as a reason to catch us up um with surveillance and oh shit, that was not the comment.

SPEAKER_07 53:40

No, I am not in favor of more surveillance, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 53:43

Um, so it it had something to do. I he had said something about um a sheriff is the elected position. Oh, yes, that is the sheriff is the constitutional election. That's the most constitutional position that we have in law enforcement. Right, right. But then look at when we go down the line and start asking officers how much constitutional training they had in their lifetime, do they do it recurring or any of that? Most of them say no. They don't get any constitutional training other than that little one-week brief or two weeks at a decent academy, or you know, they don't really touch on it. They don't you swore an oath to something that you don't really train on. And then just, and this is what really rocked the point for me. It was when you said we're the defenders of the constitution. Yes, we are. I've never thought of it that way. I've always thought about it as being a military guy. I'm the one defending well, I'm Air Force. The other military branches are the one defending the Constitution. Uh, but for whom? But right? But for whom right, right? That's a good point. That's what I'm getting at. Like, I never thought of it like that. So it's really that's a really cool perspective. So that is uh Ryan, Ryan, shut up. He's saying that the storm's an excuse. Uh, he says he he knows I'm AI.

SPEAKER_07 54:59

No digital ID for me, thank you. No barcode, no chip, no, no, I'm sorry. I will not take the mark of the beast. I pull it.

SPEAKER_04 55:06

See, we're way different. Give me the neural link, give me it all, baby. I want to be a neural.

SPEAKER_07 55:10

If you're gonna give me a neural link, that's different. I want to walk around, no one's not a digital ID. Like, oh yeah, I'm not in favor of AI cameras, I'm not in favor of surveillance cameras, I'm not in favor of red light cameras, I'm not in favor of any of that.

SPEAKER_04 55:24

Yeah, okay, that's fair. Um, yeah, and that's when uh when we were talking about the DFR earlier is like something I the one of the reasons I'm in the position that I'm in with this national association is I'm trying to keep those checks and balances and best practices

Drones Surveillance And Public Transparency

SPEAKER_04 55:41

across the board. I think if you're gonna have a drone program, let's say, you need to have a transparency website. And what is that? So here's what anybody out there concerned about your department getting a drone program, here's my recommendation. They have a website within 24 hours of a flight. I don't want it to be immediate because you got case integrity and stuff like that, but within 24 hours of a flight, every drone flight is put up on the site. You know exactly where it went, you can see the flight path, you know who the pilot was, and you know the case that it's associated with of why they were flying.

SPEAKER_07 56:16

If they're not flying, talking about a single deployment for a drone on a call-specific incident, I don't necessarily disagree. I am I'm not a fan of blanket surveillance without because to me, right? There's a police reason reasonable suspicion, right? We had to have a reasonable suspicion to detain or stop somebody, right? So I I don't like the fact that we can, you know, just flick a camera on and say, Well, I don't have reasonable submission, I'm just watching everybody, right?

SPEAKER_03 56:43

Right.

SPEAKER_07 56:44

Um, I don't I don't I don't I don't like that. Um and and uh Lacey made a comment I wanted to speak up to this. She said if it's uh only a few bad apples, what happens? Why is there what what do all the good apples do? Or why I didn't have the I did not have the power to hire and fire or punish or discipline people. All I had the power to do is look at them and say, if you ever fucking do that again when I'm working with you, we'll never be working together again, or I'm not gonna risk my pension for you. I'll risk my life for you, but I'm never gonna risk my pension for you. So if you're gonna do something illegal, immoral, or unethical, I'm just letting you know if you do it in front of me, you're gonna get you. I'm not I wasn't that guy that was like the blue wall, omeretta, you know. No, fuck you. I I I'll I'll give you I'll give you a perfect example. This guy is not a cop anymore, right? Thank God. I was standing at the evidence counter and I had a um paper bag, you know, the old lunch bags that kids used to take their lunches in, and it was literally open and full of weed. Just pulled the guy over, full of weed, right? Back in California when it was you could still actually do something with it. And it looked like it was greater than an ounce, which meant it was bookable. And I cool, fine. So got it, seized it. I didn't even book him. I just seized the weed and I was weighing it, and Chuck, it was 28 grams, not 28.5. Which matters in California because if it's not the point five, it's not bookable. Period.

SPEAKER_03 58:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 58:09

And so I went, ugh, and he got me. And the guy goes, What? And he goes, Ah, you know, he set the bag down with his dealer, they put an ounce in it, and then they took just enough out to make it less than an ounce. They probably smoked it together and he left. He got me. And he's like, Oh, here, do you want I can just give you a little weed out of mine and you can make it the full ounce? And I went, What the f what? I'm like, number number one, no, I'm good. And number two, fuck no. And then I finished packing up my shit. Because when I was saying it, I just had respect for the dude. I was like, he got me. He was smarter than I was. He won. Yeah. I game respects game. It is a game. And if you don't look at it like a game, then you're gonna take it personal, right? Well, I'll tell you what I did do. I went to the sergeant and said, hey, I don't know if he was joking or serious. I didn't bother to ask, but this is the interaction I just had and I don't like it. And I walked out.

SPEAKER_04 59:08

Yeah. Yeah. I I but I think your mindset is right. People I I understand when I tell people I always looked at it as game and entertainment. That's what I said. It's it's a game, it's entertainment. Front row seats to the greatest show on earth. And that's why I like being a cop. But that's also how I keep the mindset of not taking things personal. Is this this is a show for the uniform. It is not a show for me personally. So that's what I'm talking about when I say that.

SPEAKER_03 59:37

Right.

SPEAKER_04 59:37

It's just it does it can be hard at times to always keep that mindset. I I'm not gonna sit there and act like I've never been emotionally wrapped up in a call. I have, but I've always been very good at separating myself. Hey, take this. I'm gonna fucking, I want to punch this dude in the face.

SPEAKER_07 59:52

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:53

I just back off.

SPEAKER_07 59:54

Checking yourself and saying, Nope, I'm out. Can you handle this for me is a huge part of it.

SPEAKER_04 59:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 59:59

Or your buddy checking you.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:00

Yeah, or that. I I was I was always very good at stepping in between people. One of the calls that we talk about quite a bit on here is the Sonia Massey case, the boiling water. And I think that that is where the officer that was not the dude that was a complete D-bag that is in prison now, um, that shot that poor lady in the face. Uh, do you guys remember that case? Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that was a perfect example of when the partner should have stepped in and said, Hey, I gotta get the fuck out of here. Like kind of at the moment, they should have left so many other times. So many other times. But when he said, I'm gonna put, I'm gonna you do that and I'm gonna shoot a fucking hole in your head or whatever, and there's he's in the living room, she's in the kitchen. I'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, sorry. All right, ma'am. Uh partner, you go outside, ma'am. You have a nice day. Here's our card. If you got any problems, we're out. Like, right, bro. What the fuck was that? Like, that should have been the moment, and that didn't happen. And so that's why I do put a little bit of I put a lot of bit of responsibility on the partner as well in that to to further the conversation what we're talking about. So um, but uh Mr. Billfold said, flock is I don't even know how to say that word. I'm pernicious pernicious. I don't even know what that means. So well, does anybody yeah? I don't know what that means. Mr. Billfold, you're using big words. Um, I'm just a cop.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:20

So yeah, if he was smarter, he would have gone to the fire academy.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:23

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:01:25

Oh, it's just destructive. Yeah, it's pernicious as something that is subtly, sneakily destroyed. It's like toxic, eroding ninja.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:32

Yeah, gotcha. Okay, and then uh Kingslayer dropped five bucks and said, Did you see the story about flock employees accessing flock cameras pointed at children children's gymnastic classes? No, I did not.

SPEAKER_11 1:01:45

What?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:46

I did not see that. Um interesting. Interesting. I I could care less if that's a flock camera. I would care more that that's any camera and having access. I don't think that that it's flock has anything to do with it. I think that it's just somebody doing some nefarious stuff that they should not be doing. Um and they should be dealt with. Uh looking through the comments. Um, sorry, I did get Instagram back up and go. It's this is pretty cool to know, guys. That's the first time we ever lost power during a live. Nothing dropped off. I clicked on Instagram, it was still going. I clicked on restream, it was still going. Y'all were running. I was just like, all right, let me get my shit up and running. I could hear you guys, you just couldn't see me because I hadn't got my camera going yet again.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:33

So good to know. Uh in the chat says it sounds like snitching, and I'll tell you, okay, then it's snitching. I I told what happened because I'm not an ethical piece of shit.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:42

What what did they say?

SPEAKER_07 1:02:43

I'm somebody in the chat said it sounds like snitching. I don't know, it sounds like snitching. And I said, Okay, so I was snitching. Yeah, I I've seen it caught doing stupid shit. Don't do stupid shit.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:54

Yeah, I've seen cops do dumb shit unintentionally.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:58

Sure. I like I think a true training issue. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:02

And and that is where I'll defend them a lot more. I'm like, what the fuck were you doing? And they explain, well, I was doing this, this, and that because of this. And I'm like, oh, okay, I see where the disconnect is. One, you're an idiot. This is what that means. And you go through and you try to retrain them and try to deal with it that way, see if it fixes the issue, especially if it's somebody you work with every day. Um, handle it at the lowest level. And then if that doesn't work, and this is I think this is a lost art with just people in general. Everybody wants to cancel everybody immediately. I'm like, no, there's no room for grace, right? I'm like, no, if I can, if this is if this is saveable, fixable for sure. Like there's an officer he went to go put his gun back in his holster and he fired around. And people, oh, he needs to be he doesn't need to be a cop anymore. I'm like, really? I don't think that's true.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:50

But but some of it's just burnout, some of it is just the poor guy, and I it's not an excuse, it's an explanation, right? So just when I say it's just burnout, I'm not saying that's just burnout, he's that's fucking fine. No, I please. I am a big, big proponent of excuses are not explanations are not excuses. Okay, so let's just start right there. But burnout accelerates what we're talking about because the tired cops start seeing calls as an individual, and he starts categorizing, you know, and and saying, Oh, well, this is a this, and that's this is how I do this. It's you know, it's not they don't get there and meet people and then use discretion and decide how best to help those people, you know. I'm I would have gotten in trouble one time for letting a wife take the wheel of a car instead of her husband. I would have gotten in trouble if they found out I did that. But it was the right thing to do at the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:45

Yep. All right,

Why We Use Clips To Teach

SPEAKER_04 1:04:47

boys. Um, I want to get to uh another portion we like to do to drive some conversation and give some clarity to this is kind of a formula. I don't know if I've ever explained this to y'all, but if those in the audience are listening, they don't understand this part. There's kind of three tiers to what we do. We have a traditional podcast where I'd have Tom on and we just talk just about Tom, what's your career been like? We go all the way down, then that's a two, three hour, just depends on how much you got to say about your career. That's path one. That's that's education, humanizing perspective on one person's position in in law enforcement or whatever in the criminal justice system. Um, to even having uh people convicted of homicide we've had on, uh people that have been wrongly convicted. We've got all these different things. We had Kyle Rittenhaus on. So uh that is one portion of the show. Next portion is the social media presence, the shorts, the reels of doing reaction videos and talking about hot topics in policing. Well, one of the things that we do to drive on the live stream is we take those ones that get high engagement and we bring them and put them on here, and then we kind of discuss them a little bit further, and we get the perspective not just from me, because I'm one voice in a sea of law enforcement. But all of the seasoned people that we get on the show. So that is what we're going to pull up next.

Community Action And Street Safety Risks

SPEAKER_04 1:06:06

I'm going to share the screen. We're going to go to our X account. The reason we use X is because not because it's I only have 500 followers on X. I cannot grow X, but the reason we use it is because the playback is probably the best out of all this stuff we do. It just shows up on the screen the best. So we are going to uh show this one. I'll give you the background on this one is a uh a guy, a kid tries to rob a veteran, uh elderly veteran at a store. Okay, so just watch this. Let me see if I hit oh we're going too far ahead here. Let's hit play. Man tries to rob an elderly veteran. How casual he is. Right. No, no real rush or hurry. Now there is, because he's like, oh shit. Little does he know they lock the door, which is always risky, but he realizes he ain't going nowhere. Little Second Amendment right there. Gives him his money back. Talks some shit while he's doing it. Walk of shame, they let him go. Handles. So the point that I was trying to bring up in this video is policing cannot be done by itself. By we should not be doing everything. The community can't do everything on their own either. It really truly takes a team. Now, in this instance, it just took the community. But I think that the community has been so uninvolved, is why he was so fucking casual about just nonchalantly reaching over, taking this man's money like nobody was gonna do a fucking thing. And that is how I saw that one. And that's why I thought it was such a great video. Chuck, what do you think?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:06

Yeah, just um, I thought that was really good, and uh I agree. Uh I love it when the community gets involved. Um, and I think it's like a systemic problem right now. Um, going on with with uh with everybody, you know, um wanting to film instead of help and you know things seeing things go on, and you know, it it's never a oh, it's so so great when people deliver street justice and I get there, I don't have to do a damn thing. All I do is arrest. I don't have to have a use of force, maybe go to the hospital, spend a couple hours, write the report while I'm there, take the person to jail. It's all gravy, you know. Um, but I think that uh when the when the when the public gets involved, it's great, but I can it's also dangerous too. Yes. And if the public gets involved in the really dangerous things, sometimes it might just be better for them to just call and be a great witness. Um if if they don't have a means to to to stop the person, right? Like they're gonna get themselves hurt, they're gonna get themselves killed. Um, and I could never in uniform be like, hey, next time you see something like this, act on it because if they get hurt and they take my word for it, that's I can get in trouble. But um, I think it's a double-edged sword. I think it's good, but I also think it can have its its drawbacks too.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:22

Um Marine Blood, one of our uh our mods said Eric needs a generator. Donate here so he doesn't lose power again. Uh love it. Um, okay, so Tom sent a link. Uh, we have not seen this video.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:35

So this is a this is a uh just another classic, I think, example of what you're talking about. This guy gets literally stuck on an escalator. And I'm not the not the dumb, I don't know how to get off an escalator Will Ferrell bit. His you see him, he's stuck, like it's eating him, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:51

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:52

But the family is all mad and they're asking for answers because in the surveillance video, you see him right here, he gets stuck, and then the stairs next to him, there's there's I I don't even I didn't even count how many people walk past him. So he falls, right? And then the thing eats his clothes and he's stuck there, he can't get up, right? Now these people are gonna walk down the staircase next to him. One, two, three, and at least three, never, never tell anybody.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:20

Or he goes back up five, six, like seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:27

Jesus, and then finally somebody must have said something because this yellow safety jacket comes on and goes, sir, are you okay?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:33

Right. So he can't sleep there. Exactly. Keep it moving.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:36

That disconnect, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:38

Yeah, yeah. And and then when we turn and see what we saw in the store, I like one. I really love that there was at least two Second Amendments in there. Uh, I one we saw clearly, and another one that a follower of ours pointed out, community member, um, was like, Hey, did you see the imprint of the other guy? He had one too. So that tells you the type of restraint they had that they didn't go to that, even though technically just depends on the state you're in, at least in Texas, they would have had all rights to do so. Um, on top of it being a you know, elderly veteran that you're you're fucking with. So not that that makes him better than anybody else, but definitely helps the headlines. Uh, super chat King Kingslayer dropped five bucks and said, I will I will never help a cop when a cop is trying to detain someone, as I don't believe cops rolling up on the scene would help me from an unlawful detention.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:34

I've actually done that, so that's not true. Patently false. I have actually showed up and said, What do you have? And they go, I'm working, and I go, You don't kick him. You don't have it.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:42

Yeah, you don't have it. You gotta let him go.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:43

You have it.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:44

I I don't think that that makes what he says false.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:47

I just think that that makes what he says like it's I mean he believes it, but I'm telling you, I have done it. He doesn't believe that he would. I am telling him 100%. I know there's at least one cop out there at one point in his career that did it, and I would be willing to bet Eric has done it, I'd be willing to bet Chuck has done it, be willing to bet Panny has done it.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:05

Yeah, and and a lot of times that that's really what it is. You get somebody calls out for assist, they're by themselves, they're they detain somebody, and you get over there and like, what do you got? Like, all right, well, this guy, he was over here, and then he told me to go fuck myself, and so I detained him real quick, and then uh uh yeah, I I want to run him for warrants and get his name, but he won't give me his name. I'd be like, So you put him in cuffs because he said fuck you? Yeah, yeah. It's disorderly, he's uh he's obstructing my investigation. That doesn't fit.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:37

Yeah, it's for you started off wrong. Yeah, it was the whole very start of your interaction was incorrect.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:42

That's this is literally an actual. I'm giving you a real life example.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:46

Oh, and I've seen it before too.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:48

Yeah, I'm like, no, that's that's freedom of speech. You gotta cut cut them loose. You better apologize to him and let them know if if I were in your shoes, yes, I would tell him I was wrong, say, hey, I was wrong. I thought I had something right, I wasn't right. If you want to make a complaint, here's what you do. I can get my sergeant over here, whatever it is. It's the cops that like beep feet, and then they just tell you know, they let him go, like, you're gonna get complained on, and you deserve a complaint. But I don't think any situation's unsalvageable if you truly made an honest mistake. Did you let did you let ego take over a little bit? Yeah. But is that does that mean you gotta double down? No.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:25

Well, and what if it's a okay? So, first of all, that could be a failure to train, right? How many young cops don't know that this is lawful? Right? Right. And I have I have had somebody flip me off and I looked at them, I said, You got nine more of those fingers? Take all ten of them and shove them up your ass. And I walked away, right? Like, I don't, you know, yeah, um, but I've also had people go, if they do this, I'm gonna go over to them and say, Hey, can I help you? And they go, No. And I go, Oh, well, I thought you needed me. And they go, No, what do you mean I needed you? And I said, Well, didn't you go like this to like come here? Like, no, and then, but I'm not gonna, I'm not, I'm just fucking with them at that point because they were fucking with me, and I'm not detaining him. I'm just asking him, hey, you guys need help? And I want you to tell me to my face. No, I was just flipping you off, and I go, Oh, okay, have a nice day. And I walked away, yeah. Right? Like, that's what I want. It's it's funny, it's a game.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:19

Yeah, friendly Bob dropped 10 bucks on the super chat. He didn't even say anything. That's uh now. That is a man. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you a lot. Uh I no just you can say stuff too when you drop drop the cash. Let us know. Uh, really truly appreciate that. Thank you very much. Um, so all right, we we went down that. I'm looking down at the comments. Uh see Freeman in there. I haven't even said anything to Freeman tonight. I feel bad. Uh, we have a lot of people in here that are regulars, guys. So Free is one of those. He's been with us a long time. He said, Eric, the ads on the lives can only mean the channel is growing. It's every few minutes. I'm sorry, guys. They so the last time we went live, these guys were maybe it was the time before that. They they said that the ads were killing them. I'm like, I've done nothing different. Nothing. So I they I think it's the growth of the channel that's actually making that happen. So that's a good problem to have, I guess.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:12

Um there was something I saw about because I want to just tag back up on the flock camera thing. I don't think I I said what I was gonna say, but um, I saw somebody in the chat talking about the key the the cops looking at gymnastics, their kids' kids' gymnastics, or something like that. Yeah, and they said what happened to it or whatever. And oh, well, we told them not to do that. Well, okay, we know that you can't run somebody through NCIC Clets, you know, you you don't run people just because you can run a plate because you're behind a car, but you know, I'm not at home or I'm not running people because it's unethical and in a lot of cases illegal to access the law enforcement telecommunication system without a lawful purpose. So I would argue that if you access a surveillance camera without reasonable suspicion, then you should take the same penalty. It shouldn't be just retraining, it should be hey, we should have some policy that says accessing these cameras without reasonable suspicion or probable cause is about the same as running somebody's criminal history or or anything like that without probable cause. You have to have it. And if you don't and you access it, then we'd we take the appropriate action.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:16

Hmm.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:16

Interesting of the law.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:18

Interesting. Um, all right, let's get to that.

Consent Searches And Disarming Gun Owners

SPEAKER_04 1:16:23

Let me see here. This is so it sucks when I don't have my my Allen or my dead leg behind scenes. I gotta run everything myself. Uh we're gonna share screen. We're gonna hit play in biggie size.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:37

There we go. Yeah, it's in there. It's in that second pocket. Is it you got one in the chamber? No.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:57

Well, is it one ovens just gonna ring a block and the other one's gonna come in?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:03

These two.

SPEAKER_10 1:17:06

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:08

So I brought it it was good. It was good interaction, don't get me wrong. But this is where I talk about um overstepping. Now, they got consent. This is I'll give you guys the backstory. It was a simple traffic stop on these motorcycle riders, they were open carrying, and the officer asked if he could check their weapons, and these guys agreed to do it. Are we all on board here? That's consent. Technically, legally, nothing wrong, right? Sure. Okay. So for me, and this is the point that I was trying to make on this is I think that when we start disarming citizens for curiosity and fishing purposes, we are overstepping. I don't believe that we should be taking weapons off of people for no other reason other than fishing and curiosity. And that's what that was. If you had some reasonable, articulable suspicion, your spidey senses are going off, you got a safety concern, you're by yourself, and both of them are armed, and you're like, This is a sketch. I they're giving me a weird vibe. Something other than just a simple traffic stop, and you just want to check just to see. I think that it's wrong. I think it's an overstep. And I think that at least in this, I got a lot of flack from cops in other states. Now, Chuck, you being the most anti-gun state that I probably know of, other than Illinois, uh like what is your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_06 1:18:40

Um, well, I'm so glad you asked because I've run into these problems and I completely agree with you. If we're taking things off, especially if you're in a state that's open carry, what what business do you have doing that if it's just a regular traffic stop? It's it's illegal, it's an extension, you know, it's it's in my eyes. I agree. I agree with you. But then on the other hand, if you were to do that in California, you would be getting every single uh person calling in on you. It would be a massive felony stop. You would get prone to out, it'd be helicopter overhead, there'd be perimeters set in place. Um, it would be wild, right? And we are trained in the academy in California to ask for weapons. And if you have a CCW, you asked it where is it? Do me a favor, don't touch it. Show me your your papers. Like, make I need to make sure I verify, are you a cop? You do all these different things. We never got told just immediately disarm them. Keep your hands where I can see them. You reach for that gun though, while I'm trying to ascertain the information that I need, I will shoot you. You know, I need to make sure first who you say you are and that you have a legal purpose for that. They pop out, yes, I'm a cop. Hey, can I see your badge? Hey, it's right here. Do you mind if I reach for it? And then they do it, or they're just like, hey, go ahead and do it yourself. You grab it, I'll keep my hands up here. You can hold on to them. I, you know, give them that respect. If I was getting pulled over, hey, it's right here, I am armed. I always self-designated. I've been pulled over a few times by CHB, and that's what I said, hey, my gun's on me, or hey, it's over here, hey, it's in my bag. Um, that type of thing. And so that we got taught that. But uh, you would see cops all the time that, you know, the person's carrying a gun and there's a fine line, you know, it's a misdemeanor if it's not loaded and it's just in the car, you know, you can get to it. You don't have a license to conceal it. It's a misdemeanor, right? It's a felony once it's loaded, um, and all this other stuff. And if you use it in commission of a crime or whatever, I've seen cops, and this is what I didn't agree with at all, um, pull someone over, they're just sitting in their car and they're in the alleyway, they're waiting to get into their apartment. Cop pulls them over because they're like they're in the alleyway, stops them. Like, we don't really have probable cause for that. They get, I mean, I've seen all this crazy shit. Long story short, they find a gun in the car, um, and the gun's not loaded, and then they arrest them for that, and they get a gun. And I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? And I've had those conversations with cops. I'm like, I don't agree with what you're doing. I I I, you know, um, and I've told them that up front, and they're just like, I don't care, you know, it's it's I've seen both sides of it. Um, so I I think that what you said is is I agree with it, and but I I've seen it go crazy in in California, but um, and for us it's different, you know. If if we see a gun in the car, you know, immediately gun, gun, gun, let me see your fucking hands, put them out the window, all that type of stuff. Oh, I think California teaches guns totally different than everywhere else.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:23

Yeah. And and and that's why I tell people, choose the state you live in wisely. I understand it's not, and that's why I I posed it the way I did. I said, this is my this is my opinion on it, because uh I am not what I'm not gonna say I'm an extreme constitutionalist where I'm like it has to be this way, this is exactly what to say. I I feel like they made the constitutional the constitution intentionally vague in some places because they knew that things were going to evolve and change and and all that stuff. So I don't think you can be completely black and white about it. But when they made the second amendment, and I think this is where we all can agree, it was for us against us.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:08

The second amendment protects the first, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:22:10

And it it was made to keep us in check as as the government. I hate to tell you cops out there that don't look at yourselves like that, where you just think it's like a federal thing, you're part of that, whether you want to admit it or not. If you're a city cop, if you're a whatever a park ranger, you are a part of the system that that the amendment, the second amendment was made to protect against. As I'm talking, one of the things that I bring up is the Florida incident where the female cop, it's the same thing. The guy tells him he's armed, he's a licensor, and they ask him, Hey, do you mind if we get your firearm off if you step out and all that? The guy's like, Yeah, sure, go ahead. As the female officer starts taking the gun out, she pops around off in his leg and shoots the dude.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:26

I know, I remember that one.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:27

Oh I'm like, why are we taking his gun? Why are why are we making an extra step and taking extra risk, risk, liability? People have all sorts of different guns. I'm only trained in a few. I I don't know them all. How many times have you guys run across a gun where you're like, I don't know how to clear this thing?

SPEAKER_06 1:23:42

Yeah, you don't clear it.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:43

Yeah, I just don't touch it. You know, yeah. So that that's a whole other part to this. I'm just like, we're taking extra steps, we're doing extra, but in Texas, and this is the difference, California runs things a lot different. New York runs things very similar to how California does, Illinois does too. It's a shame.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:00

It's a shame. When we just when we're discussing the People's Republic of California, or we are discussing um the Ninth Circus Court of Appeals, the most overturned federal uh district court in the land that happens to govern California, right? The Ninth Circus is overturned by the Supremes, probably 75 at a rate of about 65 to 75 percent. So the federal district court of appeals that governs California makes decisions that ultimately, when they go to Supreme Court, get overturned. Supreme Court goes, No, this is stupid, right? So when we look at the People's Republic of California and you look at the police officers there, sometimes it is a it is a fact that that's where they're living, that's the state they chose to live in, that's the state they chose to be a police officer in, and those are the laws and the things that they have to comply with and have to do. But that discretion part is so important, right? That discretion part and that that heart for what we do and for your fellow man and for the constitution, and to say that you know you, this person right here is a human being and an individual, and despite the fact that I'm a comp and I'm here, I'm I'm here to protect them and keep them safe, just as much as I'm here to spank them if they get out of line.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:09

Yeah, Mr. Bill Fold said I think Tom and I are related.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:12

All right, we're cousins. There you go. That's fair. Tom, let's be kissing cousins. I mean, I'm hard on people though. We established that early. I don't know if you're here earlier, but I'm hard on people.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:23

Especially beards, apparently. So well, uh, remember? Right. Oh shit. But yeah, that that particular video, it caused a stink. That one got a lot, a lot of engagement. So I wanted to kind of clarify and go down that rabbit hole a little bit and let people know what my full stance is and where I'm coming from. Because, like I said, there's there were cops on there that were so ate up in their emotions about it, they were calling out my street credibility that I must not have ever been a real cop. And I just started laughing. I'm like, I listen, it the dick measuring thing, I don't care. Like, I am not hard to figure out. Go Google my name, it's not hard to figure out my history. Banning, and again, and this is the other thing. I was like, all the people that I work that are on the panel with me, they're from around the nation. You think they're gonna back me up if they didn't also know? Like, it's really not that hard. So um, the the dick measuring stuff, guys. Like, anybody that starts calling out somebody's street cred, I'm automatically thinking you don't have the street cred you think you have. Um, because the guys that do it don't have to do it. Like, Chuck, Chuck just has to say, I worked for LAPD. That's literally all he had to say.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:41

Like Eric, my father told me not to go there. When I went, Dad, I'm gonna go to the police academy, he goes, Okay, God, anywhere but LAPD. Yeah, and I said, But you worked there, and I love that department. I have all and he goes, It's not the same department. That grand old lady is dead, right? He was very honest about it, right?

Keeping Friends Outside The Badge

SPEAKER_07 1:26:58

And um, I I so maybe this is a good segue into because I said earlier we could talk about the why it's called the War Locker Show. Um, it we used to be a War Stories official podcast, and then people wanted a second show, and so we did a live show, or and it's the that was the locker room. And what we said was okay, war stories is what we tell stories, and the locker room is where we talk shit, right? So we tell stories and and have the stories, and people share them and we talk about them seriously, kind of. And then in the locker room, people are like current events, right? So this is this thing, right? What's going on? Where are the clips? What's happening out there? And it doesn't have to be law enforcement related. We talk about stupid celebrity shit, we talk about you know, whatever. But Chuck, I the importance of Matt's presence on our show and Marco's presence on our show cannot be understated because you know, one of the Matt has been to prison. Matt was a Navy vet, he came out of the Navy, he did something really effing stupid over a girl, went to prison. I I didn't get to talk. I've I've known him since I was 14. I there was about a two and a half year period where he called me up. I said, Hey, it's been like three years since we talked. He goes, This has been about two and a half years exactly. And I said, How do you know that? And he goes, Well, because I just got out of a two and a half year prison.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:07

Yeah, you feel like an asshole. You're like, Oh, damn. I have no.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:12

No, he had moved to another state. Anyway, long story short, but we'd been we've been friends since we were children. Marco. Marco's the drummer in my band when I was 15 years old. Matt was the bass player in my band. Like we've known each other forever. They've known Chuck forever now. They're the voice of everyone else. Yeah. Right? That's what gave balance. Yeah. Marco is the everyman. Marco's the tattoo artist who plays drums and goes, Mira, meet up, boys. I found this video. Is this cop fucked up or is this good? Is this normal? Like, should we please explain it to me? Because I don't understand. And then Matt's the guy who goes, I've been on the other side of it, man. Fuck you know, blah blah blah. So none of that. That's that keep friends outside of law enforcement. Those friends outside of law enforcement go, Motherfucker, I knew you when you stole a pack of gum. So shut the fuck up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:02

Yeah. Shout out to Badge 502. Uh also, guys, if you ever want Badge 502 on your show, I can get him on there. Uh, he's at work right now, so he can't really say too much. So hey, badge 502, Anthony Christian. I am uh volunteer in your services for the Warlocker show. Um but please, everybody out there, make sure you go check out Badge 502 on just about every platform there is. He's my buddy, he's a dispatcher, he's EMS, and he's a funny motherfucker. Um he's got a new baby, even though he's 59 years old. Um I don't know. He made bad decisions too. This is you, dude. This is where you're headed. I'm just he's gonna get out of here. I am not 59. He's not that old. Um, just fuck with him. But uh yeah, he's he's a really, really just he's a good soul. He's like a banning, just a good soul. Even though Banning's been pretty quiet tonight.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:52

I want banning to I I want Banning to to read a children's book, narrate it. I know so I can let my kids listen to it. He has such this big, like soulful voice. I know the exact right book for it, too.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:05

Oh, would you read and would you read and record go the fuck to sleep?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:11

Oh, that'd be good.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:12

Yeah, it would be good. Um now, I guys, AI has gotten so good that I've just rendered my from all the podcasts we've done, I've rendered my own um thing. Fifty Shades of Grey. I just did it in Banning's voice, so my wife actually likes going to bed with me now. So it's awesome. Uh shout out to Ariel. Ariel dropped another five bucks in the uh in the super chat there, but he said, take it, run it, give it back, disassembled, all rounds removed from the mag. Uh, that is standard practice for a lot of the people that go out there and take guns off of people to run it.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:49

I would love for them to tell me why. What's the justification? Are you just being a dick?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:53

Yep. And I I'm not gonna lie, I've seen it happen. I don't like it. I'm not a fan of it. It wasn't me taking it apart, but I'm also not gonna tell another person how to run their call. Um, if it's consensual or whatever it is, um so be it.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:08

And he sounds like Eeyore if he's not clinically depressed, is the comment of the show. Oh, okay, okay, Mr. May actually be related.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:20

So let me tell you about Mr. Billfold a little bit. He hated us when we first started. I won't say he hated us, but he really did not like us. And he I don't want to say he trolled, but he did not let up. He was unrelenting on us. And um, I just you know, I'm me. I just was being me. And uh hearts and minds, baby. Eventually got him to come around a little bit. We got him to come around so much, we let him debate with Von Kleem, the force science expert, on the show about qualified immunity, and it was fucking epic. Because I know you don't know him, but if you were to ever see him, he looks like he should have been a professional wrestler in the late 80s, early 90s.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:05

Well, is his profile pick? If it's that bald with the beard and everything, yeah, I can see that.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it just he's awesome. Um, I I talk to him now. We text. We're I text him almost daily. Hey man, what do you think about like this? Is what I love about this show, and it's one of the things that's helped me improve my own policing is I'm outside of that fishbowl. I'm outside of that police fishbowl, and these guys here are constantly keeping me in check and in improving the way I police, improving the way that I implement everything.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:37

So that's the key right there. There it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:41

He's got a dinger waiting for this. Uh yeah, Wade, Mr. B is epic. That's true, very true.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:50

Well, hey, you're welcome to come on our show anytime.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:53

You're welcome to watch our show anytime.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:54

Badge 500. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. King Slayer updated his membership. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you very much. Um, Kingslayer is another one. He, me and him we've gone at it in arguments on stuff. It's kind of the funny thing about the people that really invest in our community on here is we go at we just go at it. Not like disrespectfully, just you know, normal. No, fuck you. You're you're an idiot. Like this, but that sounds disrespectful if we don't know each other. Um, so a lot of good stuff. Oh, Tim finally jumped on the night. Another one of our awesome mods. What's up, Tim? Yeah, Tim. Uh Tim also helps out a lot with uh Matt Thornton, Detective Matt Thornton, another guy that you guys should get on your show.

SPEAKER_12 1:33:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:42

Um, very much into police accountability. He's about to retire here in July. Um, so you'll really get the unfiltered version of him. So I can't wait for that. Uh let me.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:53

Thanks, free Freeman Keys. I I appreciate it. He says he's when I'm over, he's gonna be watching. So there you go. If you want to see me call it like it is, I they're balls and strikes, baby. I'm just gonna call balls and strikes. That's it. If you're fucked up, you're fucked up and you need to know it and you need to hear about it. Doesn't mean we have to be a dick about it. That's the other thing, too. Delivery, right? The art of delivery, right? I I always tell people you can say whatever you want as long what's that? Uh the Venn diagram of good, fast, and cheap. Everybody, if you had a grandfather worth a shit, you know the Venn diagram for good, fast, and cheap, right? Yep. Same Venn diagram, only it's um, you have to have two of these three, right? Same thing, you don't have two, uh, but you have to have two. It should be true, helpful, or and kind. So you pick two of those, and if it's at least two of those, you can say it, right? It could be true and helpful, even if it doesn't seem very kind, but that's the you know, some sometimes people need to hear the hard truths.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:50

But if something is kind and helpful, it doesn't necessarily have to be very true. Honey, you look great. I know we're running late, we have to get out of the house. You look fantastic. I love that outfit on you. I've did you did you have you lost weight, right? None of that's true, but it's kind and it might be helpful. Kind and it got us out of the house, right? Yeah, so it I just cops get to do the same thing, man. You you just because you put on their uniform didn't mean you take your emotions and your personality out of it, or maybe some of them don't have fucking personality. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:21

Mr. Bill Fold said, Eric and Banning helped me focus the energy on helping build this community as opposed to dissolve into those ACAB psychos.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:30

Thank you, Eric. Because that's what you need, right? It's if you if everybody turns into ACAB or the world is fucking nothing but assholes and dipshits and arrest them all, then we're fucking, you know, what's a Gandhi? Uh knife or nine makes the whole world blind, right? That's the same idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:46

Yeah. Um, GQ VN4FN, I don't even know what that means, said, Why is it that pigs don't remember the oath they took?

SPEAKER_07 1:35:54

I think that's what makes them big. Is he trying to insult other animals? I don't really care. You call me a pig, that's fine. But I'll eat making and I'll go, is this cannibalism?

SPEAKER_06 1:36:07

I have a just because it reminded me, there's a guy at work. Ah, he's good, dude. Um, and he fucking hates cops, like he hates cops, and we couldn't be the like the best of friends, right? At work, and you know, to the point where we've hang out inside of work and and all this other stuff. Great dude hates cops, talks shit about cops. I talk shit right back to him, right? Um, and he always talks about look, it's not that I don't like cops, he's like, I don't like those lazy motherfuckers that are sitting over there waiting behind a freaking dumpster or whatever with their with their uh speed gun to catch me going five miles over when I'm trying to get to fucking work and you know when they could be going out and catching the the criminals and all these different things. And I try to tell them, like, well, maybe there's a hot spot in the area that they're trying to get to slow down. I understand you don't like being pulled over. Um, maybe don't talk shit to them next time they pull you over. He's like, he's like, no, but they need to know. I'm like, that's probably why you got the ticket. You know, maybe for a little if they give you some because I know a lot of cops that you know, we used to preach this shit all the time. You're not giving tickets to everybody, you're educating them, you're giving them warnings, you're giving them written warnings. You know, it's better like the lady crossing the street, you know, carrying her groceries, going to the lavenderia with her clothes and stuff like that. And you're gonna give her a jaywalking ticket. No, you're gonna be like, hey, ma'am, like let's go over here. Let me help you with your stuff, let me get you across the street safely. Hey, maybe you shouldn't do that. Maybe you should go over here next time. It's very dangerous to do that and use it as an education. Um, and and I I I loved him so much, man. He's he's such a good dude. Um, to the point where I did an AI picture of me in uniform as a fucking pig, um, arresting him and his uh his his uh his clothing, like he's wears his stuff outside of work, UFC hat, uh DC shoes, made him real big, made everything real big, real funny. Uh for a hot sauce branding that uh I told him I'm gonna make a hot sauce hot sauce specifically for him. And when I go to sell him, I'm gonna uh put that artwork up um because it's him ribbing me and me ribbing him right back because it's a cops arresting him. And every time I see some crazy shit, I always take photos and tell them or send them the crazy uh stuff that cops are doing, and he gets so pissed, but I love it. What are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_04 1:38:16

What's the hot sauce gonna be called?

SPEAKER_06 1:38:17

Um, it's gonna be uh well right now that he named it. It's uh the the uh MB sauce for his first uh his first name and and uh then named it, you know, a nickname that was given to me in law enforcement. Oh so he named it, and I was like, Oh, we gotta come up with something better. But he wanted M and B sauce, you know, and I was like, whatever, dude. That's funny, you know. Um subliminal.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:47

Chuck, you want to shoot? Well, I I was gonna I'll uh Chuck, take this one because I have I have some thoughts on some of all of that, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:55

Well, it's shout out to Kingslayer uh for dropping two bucks in the super chat and asking specifically to our boys, our guests here tonight, asking, what's warlocker's opinion on foot in the door?

SPEAKER_06 1:39:08

Chuck, can you elaborate on foot in the door?

SPEAKER_04 1:39:11

I've never heard that well what he's doing is cops show up to your house, knock, knock, knock, knock. Hey, uh, the music's too loud. You guys get what the fuck are you doing? You gotta turn it down. And the guy says, Fuck you, pig. He goes to shut the door and he shoves his the cop shoves his foot in the door. That is what he's referring to.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:28

No. No, if you don't have probable cause entering a fucking home and you're just door knocking and you're trying to force your way into that home, and you get say you get into a shooting, um, tactics leading up are gonna be bad. And I try to remember that stuff every single time I go on a call, you know, you're not gonna you know put yourself into a bad position because if you force something bad to happen, like a use of force can be out of pause. You force a shooting, it's gonna be out of pause. If you force a categorical one use of force, which is up and to including a shooting, but it could be you know maiming that person seriously where it's a big investigation. I mean, you're gonna be the one at fault. I mean, it's you you can't have contempt of cough.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:05

Like is banning muted? Did he get himself in the penalty box? He's having connection issues and he limits himself.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:12

Yeah, my connection is so bad tonight, guys. I'm trying to get it better, he's self-policing, yeah. Um plus we got two two amazing guests, and I'm uh trying to let them have the floor. So we'd love to hear everybody's opinions. Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:24

Okay, Tom, you're up. What do you think about foot in the door?

SPEAKER_07 1:40:27

Well, absolutely not. Use your fucking foot in the door. I mean, let him shut it.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:31

I'm really glad. I'm really glad that you guys said this, and this is why, and I'll let you talk. I'm sorry. Um but they've heard us talk about we've this is one of the things we've talked about before. It's like this has been the training that I had, like, that's a no-go. You don't put your foot in the door. This is the training banning's had, but we're both in the same state, we're both in Texas, y'all not. You're in a different state, and this isn't something that we talked about previously. So this goes more into how your personality and your morals as a cop come into play in your training that these guys are gonna get to hear that I like to see because we didn't talk about this prior. No one knew King Slayer was gonna throw that question, and we just dropped it on you guys in the middle of nothing, and you nailed it the same exact way that we would say it.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:14

So get your get your foot out of there. Yeah, it's not your door.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:17

I like that. All right, as you were, Tom.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:19

Oh, I was just so I guess like it's kind of that whole thing about can you do it the right way, right? If you can't do it the right way, then you're just as bad as they are, right? Um I you know, if if you're if you're breaking the rules to enforce the rules, then you're you're useless, you're just as bad, right? So do it the right way or don't do it at all. Get the hell out of the profession and stop giving us a bad

Internal Affairs Fear And Department Politics

SPEAKER_07 1:41:48

name. To which I then ask you guys, how do you guys feel about IA?

SPEAKER_04 1:41:52

What do you mean? Like, how do I feel about it?

SPEAKER_07 1:41:54

How do you feel about cops when they're like, oh fucking IA Rat Squad, IA is this, IA is that. How do you guys feel about IA?

SPEAKER_04 1:41:59

I I tell a lot of people this, I don't really understand IA. I've never, I haven't really had to be a part of it. I've never, I mean, they have questioned me about some other incidences and stuff, or they've called me and let me know, hey, you were investigating just to let you know your body cam cleared you.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:15

And I was like, oh shit, like that's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:18

I didn't even know I was under investigation. So um, but other than that, uh I don't, it's a kind of a mystery. It's not a job I want to do, right? So it doesn't interest me, so I just really don't know much about them.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:31

But see, I I go the opposite. So now again, I have a different perspective. My father worked IA at LAPD. So you want to talk about uh there were some guys that would take wrist rockets and shoot BB uh shoot uh ball bearings at windows at in Hollywood, and they'd shoot these electronic stores with these ball bearings to set off the burglar alarms. They'd go drive around the corner, they'd wait for the burglar alarm to come off, they'd jump the call, they'd drive back to the store, they'd make entry, they'd steal a bunch of shit and put it in the back of the patrol car. And then when the responsible got there, they took the crime report.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:04

It was the cops doing it?

SPEAKER_07 1:43:05

Yeah, it was a massive case in LA history. Yeah, my dad worked that case. There was Ford and Von Vilas, they were running murder for higher-end credit card fraud. It was massive. Those guys in prison, right? Wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:16

I'm kind of curious to know Banning's uh take on IA since he's the top cop, you know, like top you can get of the food chain law enforcement. So I would I'd be really curious to think his his um his idea on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:30

I believe IA is a a needed, a lot of people are gonna call it an evil, but I but I believe it's needed. But you have to have a properly trained IAD or IA division for it to be effective. Um, if you've got the and I've seen both sides of the house at a couple different departments to where you've got guys that are consistently going through body cameras not to give any accolades out of oh, policy violation. And that policy violation can be that department wears basket weave and his shit's not polished that day, and he's gonna take the audacity to skip the sergeant, pull them in, and pull a professionalism policy violation out. You know, there's no, I don't believe there's a need for that. That needs to be checked on that officer's squad. And then, you know, if they have a question with that, they can go after the corporal or sergeant and say, hey man, why is your one of your guys look like Schmuck Catelli out there? He looks like a piece of shit. Uh, let's get him squared away. You know, and but then there's other, you know, good IAs out there that are where they receive a complaint, kind of like what sounds like what Eric went through, and they're like, okay, we're gonna we're gonna look into this. And they they pull a number, they document why they they're pulling the body camera, they look at it. It is completely not anything of what the complaint is, and then they can clear it. And then they do a courtesy call. Hey, FYI, you were called in on. Uh, here's what it is. We're not gonna bring you in. I just want to let you know you're cleared on this service number for a complaint of this, but you have nothing to worry about. Uh but let me go into that real quick because this is something that I get this question all the time. How do I handle sergeants? And this is coming from slick sleeve officers, that say, Hey, I need you to swing by the PD after you go to this call because we need to talk. And this officer's going to a priority call, and now he's got that in the back of his head, and he's running scenarios through of all the calls that he's gone to for the past two weeks while he's going to go deal with citizens on possibly their worst day. And now law enforcement's getting called, and you have this officer now struggling mentally of what's going on in there. We need to get away from that. You can, hey, quick, send him an MDT message. Send him a text. Hey, no big deal. Wanted to talk to you about a fight call that you were at two weeks ago. Right. Uh, just want to talk about it. Don't let it cloud your judgment, or wait for that officer to clear the call and say, hey man, are you clear for a phone call? And let them know immediately what it is instead of letting that fester in their head as they're out. Yeah. And it's, you know, but no, IED is uh it's necessary, um, especially in the larger departments, because we do have to have checks and balance. There's a lot of people out there to tell you, hey, this needs to be a an organization that's not even a part of the police department that are not sworn in this and that. No, I believe you need to have that IED in there, uh, somebody with that law enforcement knowledge, but they've got to be the right person, and that's the big thing. You've got to have the right or people, depending on the size of the agency. Hopefully that answers your question a little bit, Chuck.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:26

100%, man. It nailed right on the head. I, you know, uh I just wanted to see if your uh thoughts align with mine, and I think it's the same. I think it's necessary evil. Um, I've seen it. I don't think it's evil. If it's done right, it's not evil.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:37

Well, I've seen it as important to protect to exonerate the innocent as as convict the guilty. That's right. That's supposed to be our ethos, right? Yep, sure. When it's utilized to exonerate as to convict, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:46:50

But when it's utilized poorly um in certain agencies, you can have it ran really well under certain people, and then then other people who listen to someone else get told to do certain things to certain officers under investigation to try to make it go a certain way because a certain individual, I've seen shit like that happen at the same time. And I have a friend who was in IA. She promoted into IA, got an IA, shortly came out. I knew some people who were being investigated. She talked to me and she's like, This is bullshit. This is what's going on. This is completely being ran. She's like, I got a promotion to go there, I'm coming back out. I came back to the division that she came from and she retired because of how poorly it was being ran. And they wouldn't listen to her. And she felt uncomfortable what was going on, and she spoke out, and she's like, I don't want to get retaliated against, I'm not gonna do it. And I've seen that. Um, so I, you know, I think it can be good and bad. I think it's necessary evil, but it has to be ran the proper way.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:38

Yeah, and and that also goes with the not to hijack it, Eric, but it goes with promoting people that have no business being promoted because they're up against a civil service bylaw so they can't fire somebody for just being a POS and they're like, you know what? We're gonna let you take a test and we're gonna encourage you to promote because maybe if we get you off the street and to another division, you're no longer a problem. I have a major remonition.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:07

Now now you're getting into where I was just gonna take this because big C360 just asked, if you're afraid of IA, you're probably a bad cop. And although I can agree to that to an extent, I don't think it's that mutually exclusive. And why do I think that? And even Freeman Keyes called me out. He goes, explain why a good officer would be afraid of IA. Serious question. Here's why politics. There are times when you are the target of politics and you become this uh cannon fodder for whatever political agenda the either the department's doing, a chief it specifically is doing, somebody maybe an IA is doing, those things exist. Just like the to the extent that Tom was just talking about cops literally setting up their own criminal acts. If you if cops are willing to go that far, do you think it's that far out of the realm to think that IA in some places or other people in higher up positions won't put cases on other officers to get the headache out of the way or whatever, whatever personal agenda there is because they're fucking that guy's wife, whatever. Um, those things exist. So when what I'm trying to get at is even me, if I find out I'm under IA investigation, I think I'm a good cop, but my butthole is gonna be so pucked, I'm gonna be like, what the fuck am I getting investigated for? I'm gonna be scared. I gotta I'm gonna be stressed the fuck out. And that's why our IA doesn't tell anybody they're investigating them until it's over with. I I think because they want them to work normally and not act a fool and be all stressed out. I'd throw up. I'd be like, what the fuck am I gonna investigate for? Shit. Did I do something dumb on the podcast and didn't realize? That's gonna be my first thought.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:54

Well, can I ask you this? Do you think integrity stings are a good idea on departments?

unknown 1:49:59

Oh,

SPEAKER_04 1:50:00

Like where they drop, you know, there's a hundred dollar bill sitting in the back of a patrol car and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:04

Yeah, to see what happens, to see if you book it, to see if you steal it, to see you.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:08

I I if young officer me, I'd be like, this is bullshit, you know, we did all this, but older officer me, I'm just like, I'm not gonna do anything with it, so I don't give a fuck. Do it.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:18

Well, that's exactly it. I was always told if there's a piece of equipment lying around in the locker room, it's gonna be gone. But if there's a 50 cent piece sitting on a the floor, nobody's gonna touch it. So I agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:28

However, if you leave your bench made knife laying somewhere, that is not gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:32

I've had my gone. I've had my danners stolen twice. Oh, your boots got taken twice. The first time they were molded to my feet. I've been wearing it forever. Gross, nasty. You had heel cups, you could see my heels on the outside of my boots, and someone ganked them.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:47

So so yes, I wanna I'll just say to Big C you're not wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying it's more nuanced than than just that. I think I think it goes a little bit a little deeper.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:00

Yeah, um and also, I mean, think about this cops are gonna be like this as long as we have to hire them from the human race. Yeah, oh, yeah. In any job, so just get rid of them when they are terrible. That's what really needs to happen. Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:17

Um, Mr.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:18

Billfold drops the subtlety, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:51:20

Yeah, Mr. Billfold dropped two bucks in a super chat saying, Chuck and Tom, thanks for joining us this evening. So uh I love it that our guys are loving you guys, so that's really cool. Um, because we've had guests they absolutely don't like and they let them fucking know. Uh I mean, hey, it is what it is. I like my audience, uh, I like our our community, and and they're very honest, so I'll give them that. Um, there was uh this guy's new, and this is kind of how I try to win people over. It doesn't always work. Um, but you guys have seen I I don't recognize this guy. He and he's already dropped several he's not pro-cops tonight. Um, but he said bullshit, and this was kind of, I think, when Chuck was talking about hiding behind a dumpster and running radar. Um, cops are used to generate revenue for the county, city, township. Yeah, stop lying. So GQ, I'm going to, I'm going to give you some credit. Yes, there are departments that do that. 100%. And and and you know the departments when you're rolling through their city, like, fuck, we gotta slow down because these guys hammer everybody. There is a I live in Arlington, so that's not where I work, but it's where I live. There is two little cities, Pantico and Dal Worthington Garden. And I think combined, they make more money in tickets than Arlington combined. Like they're alone, not combined. Like they you just don't speed through there. My wife's gotten two tickets from them in school zones. And she's like, I was going like three over, like it was, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:52

I read that in Texas, does the revenue go to the city? Well, and that's the thing, and that's another thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:59

And that's the point that I was gonna bring up to GQ is like I don't see that. Why would I work hard for their tickets? Now, where I will also give him credit, and that I think this is the honesty integrity check is that oh, sorry, let me turn that back off. Um shit. I'm trying to look at the chat. I'm sorry. There we go. Um here's another way they control officers with tickets is if you work for the traffic division. What do you get to ride when you're in the traffic division? Motor. Motorcycles. Or the fastest cars on the department. It's either gonna be some sort of Camaro Mustang, uh, what what other Tesla, I don't know, uh whatever Dodge Charger, whatever other fast car you can think of. If you work for the traffic unit, that's what you get to ride. Well, guess what? Your evaluations are gonna show based on productivity. Well, what is productivity? I can't give you a quota, but if I see you're not writing tickets, well, your evaluation may not be so high. But guess what? There's 40 other officers lined up that would love to ride a motorcycle for a living. So we're gonna give them a shot at it because you don't really seem to be working that hard. You don't really seem to care. And the the unit itself gets grant money from the state to go out and do these DWI checkpoints or to do these ticket uh enforcement places for bad areas. Now, on paper, that looks great because that's probably what the community wants in those areas, so that's where the government grant money comes from. But it all comes together. So GQ, you're right in a way.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:38

Now, I can I I want to I want to ask you guys a genuine question because this was this is something I mean, forget, like when it came to New York pol NYPD running an entire campaign of law enforcement tactics that was unconstitutional, and I heard about it, I was like, wait, stop and frisk? What is this? And like, yeah, anyway, PD, they stop anybody, they frisk them. I'm like, that's patently unconstitutional. How do we not how does a department say this is what we're doing? And nobody goes, hey, um you realize we were all taught we can't do that, right? But I digress. You know, you get into these things and you get into the the what you're talking about. We had a city, this is my question to you guys. We had a city, and not my city, but they wrote Municodes. For those of you who don't know, municipal code is a city code, not a county or a state, right? So any violation of municipal code has to be prosecuted by that city, and then the punishment and all this stuff has to be brought back into that city, right? So they wrote the vehicle code. They wrote stop sign, red light, speeding, they wrote all of these different violations again and made the fines half of what the vehicle code is, right? And I went on a ride along with my buddy, he's working for this agency, and I watched him talk to somebody and go, you know what, you've been very cooperative. Here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna write you up for the immunity code. It's half the cost of the citation if I were to give you the actual vehicle code violation, and uh it doesn't go against your insurance. And they were like very grateful for that, right? But that means they were ex able to be able to do it. It was a win-win. It was a win-win. Yeah, so how do you feel? I mean, do you would you guys are you cool with that?

SPEAKER_04 1:56:20

I I'm not a ticket guy personally. I hate tickets.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:23

I have all my tickets from in my bag still without the books, you're supposed to save them. Yeah, I always kept them in my bag. That's how little tickets I fucking wrote. Yeah, I I hate tickets. I would rather publicly humiliate you over the fucking loudspeaker in the middle of traffic, yeah, hold over and yell at you for doing dumb shit and let everybody see, let you be embarrassed, and then say the next time I see you, I'll write you a ticket. You know, yeah. Chances are I'm never gonna remember that that person ever again. But you know, it I I hated writing tickets because I would much rather in inform you and yeah, I'd rather go look for chase bad guys than fucking write tickets. Yeah, I would never be do that. I think it's ridiculous. I use it as a probable cause or use it as a probable cause to see who's in the car. Absolutely, you know, tinted windows, you know, speeding, no left turn, you know, running stop signs, shit like that. If I see it in front of me, but I'm not going and hiding and waiting for it. You know what I mean? I think it's ridiculous. I eat tickets.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:23

And when you're doing that, you're doing it in high crime areas and you know that you're looking for real bad guys, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:57:28

Game locations.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:29

Yeah, I get that. Um, I I don't I didn't, this is buried in the comments. I just didn't want them to think I missed it. But um Ariel dropped 10 bucks in the super chat and he said, Um, speaking of body cams, Fargo PD just renewed their contract with Axon, and the chief said, We have officers that would quit if we stopped using body cams. And I think that is a testament to how far the culture has come. There's still some departments that uh refuse to get body cams, but not very many. I know Sheriff Grady Judd is one of those that won't let his guys get body cams. It's fucking insane.

SPEAKER_07 1:58:05

Well, I don't get it. I got a question wrong beginning until they exonerated everybody.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:11

Right. Now they're being now body cams are being deemed as racist. Right. Which is insane. I like you can't win. So Danny, what were you saying?

SPEAKER_00 1:58:23

I was just gonna say, Chuck, uh, how long how long have you been out now? A year. Okay. So you you I'm sure you had to deal with the Sandra Bland Act, correct? Was that nationwide or was that just in Texas, Eric?

SPEAKER_07 1:58:35

Uh I don't know. Sandra Bland Act. I remember the name, but I don't know that we had the Sandra Bland Act.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:42

Okay. I I I thought it went into to federal, but I could be wrong. It might be Texas over. It's Texas legislative.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:48

The Sandra Bland Act is this by explicitly explicitly outlawing the practice of pretextual stops as well as outlawing consent searches and raising the burden of proof needed to both stop and search vehicles in Texas. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:02

So what that did for us, and I'm gonna knock it all the way down to patrol level. So the guys that are out there doing traffic stops in between calls or even the traffic unit, you know, if you, you know, even back in the days when I worked uh drug interdiction on the highways, it's it was you walk up there, you you can, you know, it's it's the officer's discretion if you're gonna write a citation or a warning. I'm not a ticket writer a lot, so mine were mostly verbal warnings during that time. And I cut them on their way just to so they can get to where they're going, like, hey, you know, you're going 75 and 55, can you please slow down? Uh hate to see a fatal accident up here. And and I was looking for different cues or whatever to take it to another level. And 90% of the time, or even higher, there was no reason to take it. Well, now with that Sandra Bland Act in place, if the police department is properly following what they stated, you're at least giving them a card on how they can complain on you. Here's a number to call, here's who you need to talk to, et cetera. Or it's got to be on the warning or the citation for that information on there. And that was that was based on the Sandra Bland Act. For some reason, I thought that went more than just one state.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:09

No, I think that did they there multiple states have done things like that, but I don't think there's like a natural national one or there's a standard one, it's just different versions of it, is my understanding.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not to what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:22

She got stopped by a trooper, yanked out of her car, it turned, it went sideways, she got hooked up for pushing a uh cop and then went to jail and died. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:41

Yeah, people are people are getting canceled now for making jokes. You see the whole roast the Kevin Kevin uh Hart?

SPEAKER_06 2:00:48

Kevin Hart? Yeah. Oh, with Tony Henchcliffe?

SPEAKER_04 2:00:50

Yeah, oh Lord. Hey, they're going after that show now, which is crazy. Shut up. Like, don't go to a comedy show expecting swallow a bag of cement and harden up. Never heard that. Oh, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:06

I like it. Uh that's that's the same goes for our guys out there still putting the uniform on every day. You know, you've got to go out there with the like we spoke about earlier, I believe Tom brought it up, is they're mad at the uniform presence. They're not mad at you personally. They don't know you. Um you gotta be able to.

SPEAKER_07 2:01:23

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:25

Um, okay.

The Ultimate Karen And Bad 911 Info

SPEAKER_04 2:01:26

Let's uh let's jump over to another video. I cannot wait to see your guys' reaction on this one because this is with my this is probably the my favorite video I've made in a year at least. This is my favorite one. Um, so I titled it the ultimate Karen. For any of my Dragon Ball Z fans, she would be Ultra Karen Instinct. Um, all right, we're gonna hit play. Did I just discover the ultimate boss Karen? Now look, I'm not trying Oh shit. It doesn't get not only did she get pissed off about the fireworks, bro, then they start playing the national anthem, like and she's still going afraid. That is the most ultimate Karen. And I know people are like, what does this have to do with police? She was threatening to call the police. And I'm not gonna say this is your average 911 caller. I don't believe that to be true, but these are the types of 911 calls we get. And if you were to hear her on the phone, she's gonna over-embellish everything that you just saw.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:12

Eric, let's let's blow that up a little bit, right? Since you just showed that. Let's say you have a rookie or a young dispatcher taking that 911 call, and then they may be inserting their opinion on top of what she is saying, and then you have a rookie or young officer receiving that call, and the next thing you know, you got a guy getting out of an AR approaching this scene because too many opinions. And I have to say that because damn, we need to stop putting opinions in things and just put the facts down for law enforcement, FD, EMS, whoever is don't stop putting your damn opinion in there.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:47

Yeah. Yep. Chuck, you have the best reaction. Your laugh made me start laughing when you laugh.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:54

That lady is crazy, and yeah, you're you're right, Vanning. Uh I've I've had that actually happen to us where we get the call, it gets amplified so much because people start putting their opinions in there, or what the caller is saying on the phone is not what's happening because they know how to get the comps there faster. You roll up with ARs, uh, your UPRs, um, and you're like, What are you serious? Comes out of some crazy 415 party. But you know, like I I've had this happen to me, and I've looked at her, I or the person who called, and I told them, like, this is ridiculous. I'm not doing anything, they're not breaking the law, I'm not the health department. They're in a park, they're celebrating. I'm not doing it. This is goodbye. This is not a police uh call, and there's no enforcement to be done. I'm out.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:43

Yeah, yeah. I love that she was saying that it's not a Marine Blood pointed out that it's not a holiday. So, like, they can't do any of can't do any of that stuff. Tom, you're being awfully you got like mean face on me.

SPEAKER_07 2:04:55

That was I hate Karen so much. I hate them, hate them, hate them, hate them, hate them. And then you set talk about dispatchers inserting opinions and you tripped on one of my other freaky buttons.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:05

I think we PTSed them right there.

SPEAKER_07 2:05:07

Oh my god. That was like fur. I used to tell I used to get mad when uh you get um you know, people call in to go, I have there's somebody suspicious in the neighborhood. And dispatch would dispatch me to a call, say there's a suspicious person in the neighborhood, and I would that's it. I'd go, okay, all 1021. I call station, go, what's suspicious? And I'm like, Well, the caller said that there's a black guy walking in their neighborhood. I I get it. Our city didn't have that our Hispanic and white were our bigger demographics. Black was a low demographic in our era. Well, walking while black is not a crime, right? And so what I would get really frustrated about is that I'm why are you sending me to this? You're putting me in a position where I'm gonna have to like I'd walk in and be like, hey sir, how are you? Fine? Are you out and about just uh hanging out in the yeah, I'm walking to my buddy's house, cool, see ya bye. Yeah, because I would have you know, yeah, that I was just unable to locate. Because that kind of sending us to that, you're putting us in a position that we should never have to be put in.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:08

Yeah, I I the the main point that I wanted to bring up with this video is I th I I don't know if they're still doing it in schools. I I should really ask my kids, but because they grew up with a dad as a cop, I mean it's really hard, it's probably gonna be harder for them to reference. But what I want to know is in school, are we teaching kids these days when do we call firefighters? What do we call them for? What is there, what are all the things that they do? What do we do with EMS? When do we know that we need medical versus uh firefighter? Or do they do both? Are we teaching them what police officers' hats are? What hats do they wear? What when do we call them? And then when is it appropriate to reach out for other services before we start reaching out to police? So that's kind of the point that I was trying to drive home with that. And um, a lot of mixed comments out there, and some people are like, you know, they should be training that stuff in schools, some of them think they don't. Um, and then again, like I said, this is a new voice on here, and I I kind of want him to see that we don't shy away just because you're pointing out bad things that cops have done. And yeah, just remember when cops coward outside of elementary school in Texas, remember that. Uh I I won't, I won't forget that. Um I I don't know. I they still haven't released that full investigation. I can tell you what I do know about it so far. I'm not very happy with the results uh of what was known and what wasn't known, but I'm waiting for that investigation before I drop a full opinion. Um, and have there been other things like the shooting in uh Nevada, where I think it was Nevada, where they were shooting down on a concert. There was a cop down the hallway that didn't move in.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:49

Oh, you're talking about Mandalay Bay?

SPEAKER_04 2:07:50

Yeah, yeah, the Mandalay Bay thing. There was a cop down the hallway with two security guards and he didn't move in.

SPEAKER_07 2:07:54

Yeah, CIA told him not to.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:56

Yeah, and that pissed me. Yeah, yeah. I was I was uh just going with what you said until I heard what you said.

SPEAKER_07 2:08:04

I gotta grab my tinfoil hat first. Yeah. So do you have it right there, Chuck? But you gotta put it on. Okay, so to full, full, full sorry interrupt, Eric. I have to for the listeners. Whenever we get like this, Chuck has his accessory ready to go, but he's not there because it's in my card. He made himself like a smurf hat out of tinfoil that he puts on, and then we just uh, you know, we always get into those kinds of things because we love the tinfoil hat and conspiracy stuff. Uh and so it's been pretty fun.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:33

Yeah, but um the the other thing is um all the times that officers have stopped active shooters, so yes, GQ, I'm with you. You point out a bad one. There are bad ones. No, we're not gonna sit there and hide and pretend that there wasn't. I don't know enough about Uvalde to say that it was good or bad. I can tell you so far from what I heard, it wasn't great. Um I I'll I'll concede that. I'm just waiting for that full fucking investigation to come out because it wasn't there, I don't know. And uh but from what I see, it pisses me off too. I'm with you. It pissed me off from what I saw. So we can agree. Um, but then you've got like uh the lone gunman um at the outlet mall that he went in and absolutely stopped an active shooter. Uh Lieutenant, I got it pulled up here, Lieutenant Dan Markoy.

SPEAKER_06 2:09:26

That was nuts.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:27

Um matter of fact,

Active Shooter Response And Adrenaline

SPEAKER_04 2:09:29

let's show it. Since since I you wanted to bring that up. Well um give me one second here. I'm gonna pull it up on YouTube.

SPEAKER_06 2:09:38

Uh I do have to say, after that shooting in Uvaldi happened, and I have a school right down the street from my house where my kids go to school, I am always now worried that something's going to happen there. Yeah. I always have my shit ready to rock. So it's like it bothered me.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:57

So I am going to I'm gonna fast forward because I I've seen this so many times now. Um we're not muted. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 2:10:35

Moving forward, moving forward, moving finger.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:40

He's got bodies on the ground. He is trying to move forward still. Guys, it's easy to sit behind a computer and say what you would do. I can even do this. Say that what I would do. I don't fucking know. Never been put in this type of position. So gonna keep going?

SPEAKER_01 2:13:06

I don't know what he's saying.

SPEAKER_07 2:13:17

Yeah, he's getting real close.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:18

I want you guys to understand if you've never been around rifle fire, the actual shock that goes through your body.

SPEAKER_07 2:13:26

It the overpressure.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:28

The overpressure alone can it can shut your system down if you don't, if you've never been around it and you're not acclimated to it. How do I know that? Because the first time I was around rifle fire, learning how to hunt, I was shaking and I couldn't move when my grandfather was firing his rifle. It was a 30 out six.

SPEAKER_07 2:13:50

Yeah, and they make a big boom.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:51

Yeah. So every military person in the comment section will tell you what I'm saying is not boosted. See, I'm not. Handle business, then get on the radio. If I still think he's moving and I'm not comfortable putting my rifle back down yet, I ain't touching my radio.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:43

No, I meant uh uh uh leading up to this point, he's been making progress.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:46

Yeah, and he hasn't been kind of updating the last place he said was uh Tommy or feeler or something like that.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:52

Right, in his past couple places. That's the only thing like my biggest critique was uh just a little more information, but I get it. That's really hard. That's a little hard to do. A little bit of that.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:01

Yep. So um and the the rest of this guy, it's it's pretty much done. Um he shoots and then the the guy's down, yeah. Um, and then it's just a lot of waiting around, so we can stop sharing that.

SPEAKER_07 2:15:12

Please, that's nitpicking, you guys. That's nitpicking. Okay, yeah, that's all that's that's how we debrief things. We nitpick it so we go, okay, something to consider for next time.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:21

Yeah, but my point being uh to GQ um is that yes, there are instances of bad encounters, but there's a lot of great stuff that you don't see. And look how many people in the comments even said, I've never seen this one before. Oh, I don't know this one. Like it happens, you just don't know. But when it's bad, y'all fucking know.

SPEAKER_07 2:15:44

So uh if it bleeds, it leads.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:46

Yeah, and and you said he's walking towards an active shooter. Yeah, he was, he was gassed. Everybody could hear it. Anyone that's been gassed knows. And that's that's gassed on top of adrenaline. That's a whole different level. I guarantee if you were to take his hands off that gun, they would have been like this, just jittering all over the place. So the fact that he was able to hit the dude and stay steady enough is uh a testament that's really good, and and to keep moving forward in the face of that loud, audible bang that that rocks you to your core. I promise you, it rocks you to your core. That's uh it's very hard to do.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:26

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:26

Well, yeah, so absolutely. Um, and and you know, uh banning Chuck both Marines. Tom, were you did you do service?

SPEAKER_07 2:16:33

No. Okay. Um I was busy playing in punk rock bands.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:37

Fair enough. Fair enough. So um, you know, I'm not I'm Air Force, so I'm pseudo-military. Um, so I'm not gonna pretend that I had the hard training. There you go.

SPEAKER_06 2:16:51

Like the Marine Corps had. I mean, you really have to figure out how to use the lever on the chair to go up and down.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:58

So yeah, and if you pinch your fingers, you that's 100% disabled for Air Force. So exactly. You gotta know. Um, sorry, I'm just looking over at the comments here. Uh, somebody said 100% King Slayer. I don't know what he said. Oh, oh, he said plus adrenaline uh can psych you out, causing you to gas out. Yes, and that's kind of the point that I was getting at is like you may not actually be, you could be a guy like me. I can swim an hour. I swear, I just swam an hour today. You can swim, but if adrenaline hits me, I'm good for like two minutes.

SPEAKER_06 2:17:31

Yep. Perfect example, man. Um, gotten due to my shooting. Two weeks later, I come back, um, have the last meeting with the the shrink. Shrink clears me after another week of being back for field duty. I go out back in the field night one, and I'm probably a couple hours in. Uh pursuit, get involved in the pursuit of uh gangsters in a stolen G ride, you know, or a stolen yeah, G ride, and then we go to these uh what you would call like a project. Um, it's a shitty apartment building. Um, everyone unasses you have bodies going everywhere, gang units going this way. There's supervisors running over here by himself. So I see, okay, all the partners are going over here. Me and my partner pop in last, and we take off with a supervisor, get a fee uh this female she ran, she ran underneath the vehicle. We pull her out, she's reaching. You know, my partner slams her on the back with his boot and is like, don't fucking move, do not keep reaching, you will be shot, you know, type of stuff. And I'm like, do not keep moving your hand forward, do not keep reaching. Slowly bring your hands out. And you know, luckily she didn't have anything, but I got so close and I was like, Oh my god, this is fucking rough. And my hand was visibly shaking. I, my body was having tremors, not because I was afraid, but because I was going back to that situation where adrenaline was spiking through my body because I thought I was gonna get into another fucking officer-involved shooting, day one being back, and I'm like, God dang it, yeah, you know, and it it's it's rough. You can function while you do it because you train it, but it it does cause you know, speaking louder, yelling in the microphone. You have to learn to bring it down, and the more you're exposed to it, the better you are at it and handling those situations, just like any other training. But it's it's uh it can definitely make you tired.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:16

Yeah. Tim, I'm laughing at what Tim said, but I'm I'm laughing because it I was the same way. He goes sort of like I am with women, Eric. Uh being, you know, it's been me and my wife, but when we first started, you know, when I first started getting it, uh I would shake. I wasn't scared, it was just adrenaline. Yeah, yeah. You know, like just sh I I could uncontrollably. Like, I was like, I don't know what's going on. You got your own fucking you know, rumble bed going on. Lucky she was like, ooh, this is nice. Right? Like, I couldn't control it. This is so yeah. Uh give uh Ariel a shout out. He dropped five bucks on the super chat and he said, Go to an indoor range and try shooting a two, two, three. It is very shocking.

SPEAKER_07 2:20:01

Oh, Ariel, I have long said that men who take two, two, threes to an indoor range also pee sitting down.

SPEAKER_04 2:20:08

Oh damn. Well, where I am at, we have our indoor range for our for your department, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:20:15

That's fine because you have an indoor range for your department. Nice, right? But if you have to go shoot an AR at an indoor range as a hobbyist, right? That's your point. If you select that as the place to go shoot at 2, 2, 3, you probably can see.

SPEAKER_04 2:20:29

So GQ said, he goes, I'm 100% or I'm 101st Airborne Division. So um I I dropped in the comments because I wasn't sure if I was gonna be able to get to it in time, but I said, You're starting to lose credibility with me. If you if you were 101st airborne, then you should 100% understand what this officer's going through. Not because he's a cop, because he's going into combat. It's literally what he's going to do. And if you understand combat at all, now I've been in combat, not for the military, but in police. I didn't get to shoot, but I was being shot at several times, several different occasions. And I can tell you exactly what I went through. Now, does that mean everybody goes through that? No, some people are just fucking born for it. I wasn't. I had to learn, I had to train through it. I wasn't born for that. At least I don't think I was. Uh but I can do more than a lot of people. But there's a lot of people that can do way more than me in a situation like this. So to me, that's my point. That's what I'm saying. If you're 101st, I know what military training goes through, just at the basic level. I'm not gonna say I know exactly what 101st airborne goes through, although my BFF is a E9 for the airborne. Uh Eric Poses is uh yeah, he's my good, he's my buddy. Um so I I can refer I have people I can refer to. Let's put it that way. So, GQ, if that is what you're in, I I don't get what you're saying. Uh because to me I can't ask a cop to do more than what he just did. Could he do better? Sure. We could always do better. Right. But did he do what was right? Yes. Did he do what we need him to do? Yes. Did he do what happened at Uvalde? No. Because he heard the shots, he got there quick, and he made a decision and did it.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:24

He ran far too, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:26

Yeah, that was a long way.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:27

That was a really long run. That was uh that was like all the way around the fucking mall with all of his gear on. Yeah, you know, that's like 40 pounds of gear plus a loaded-out rifle, and our rifles aren't light.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:39

Right. I yeah, I I'm gonna say he's close to 60 pounds or more going around that. Um, it can see even it may he may be kitted up. We don't know. I I doubt it. I doubt he's kitted up, but you don't know, could be. Um, but yeah, he him going that's a long way. And it with the adrenaline. So so GQ, I'm that's why that's what I meant by credibility. Like you're you're 100 first, brother. Like you should kind of understand the position this guy's coming from. Uh we're I can tell you this too, GQ. Like, it doesn't matter how hard people troll on here. I I never I will always just just talk to you. I don't I don't succumb to the troll stuff. So I don't think that's what you're doing, but um other people may take it that way at first. Uh Craig dropped 10 memberships out there. I appreciate you, Craig. I'm I'm looking through to see who I do know uh Lache has spoke several times on here, so congrats to him. I'm looking through the names. Uh I don't see anybody else in there that talks on here regularly that got one, but um, I'm gonna go back. Um I think I think we hit the nail on the head with all of that. You guys good with that part? Yeah, yeah, me too. So yeah. Um okay, and so yeah, okay, we got to the supercarn video. Okay, good. Um, I want to open it back up to you, Chuck and Tom. Uh, is there any topics before we go to any of the body cam review stuff? Um, one of the things that we like to do on here is we'll play a video where us as police officers will watch the video as it's happening. And rather than watch it and just, you know, Monday morning quarterback, we're gonna watch it and kind of talk our way through the call and say how we would have handled the call. And it kind of shows like, okay, you guys trained out in California, we train in I train in Michigan and in Texas, but our training may be different, but kind of the same. We all figure out to kind of get it. So you get the point. Um, but I wanted to leave the floor open. That's kind of how we end things. So I just want to see which you guys, if you guys had anything you want to talk about.

SPEAKER_07 2:24:46

I'm I we've covered a lot. It's uh law enforcement culture is a big deal to me because it it is it is so toxic, it is sometimes you know, I hate that word, but it is right, it's corrosive, it it can but we do it to ourselves and uh it's so stupid, right? We eat our own, right? The very fact that if somebody's struggling, we call them a fucking potato chip, or you know, you know, like it's it's just I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 2:25:16

Um I would say two things. Um, one because uh being a peer support counselor for my agency for a really long time, um, I believe in mental health and mental health checks and making sure your buddies are good because we go through some really bad shit. I've lost some friends to mental health, and it's a very passionate uh topic for me. Um check on your buddies. If something's not right, talk to someone, okay? Talk to them. Um a simple, hey, how you doing? Are you okay? Everything good? That might be the the thing that saves their life. Um, a friend of mine not caught, but was about to do something really bad, got a text, it pulled him right out of it. And it saved his life, right? I wish I had you know uh those talks with some people that I've lost, just to ask them if they're okay and is there anything I can do to help. Um talking to your buddies, you know, and if they call you late at night and that's out of character for them, instead of snoozing the column, like, I'll get back to you in the fucking morning, babe. Don't bug me. There's that's if that's out of character, answer the phone. Um you you will eat yourself up if that was the call that could have saved that person's life, especially if they leave a voicemail that's gonna haunt you to the rest of your life. Um, and number two, um just because you're you're really good at your job doesn't make you mean you're gonna be a great leader. Um, and if you do become a leader and have the the forward thinking to know that um you're gonna constantly be learning and to seek people out as mentors to help you grow as a leader because you're not gonna know everything and take constructive criticism as a leader. Um, and no comment is too small. The people beneath you sometimes have really good uh ideas and can propel your career because they're gonna, you know, say something really, really good and impactful and it can help you. Um you're a team, you just might be the person in charge of that team, but it's your job to lead them and lead them by example, right? And understand that everyone comes together to create the uh the bigger goal of the end, you know.

SPEAKER_07 2:27:26

Yeah, be the cop that you would want to have.

unknown 2:27:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:27:29

Be the cop you would want to have. Be the treat every single person like it's your mother or your sister or your cousin, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:27:36

Just uh yeah, I I say all the time, be the change you want to be. Um it's corny.

SPEAKER_07 2:27:41

Um be the supervisor you wanted to work for.

SPEAKER_04 2:27:43

Yeah, yeah, golden rule treat everybody like you'd want to be treated. Yeah, so yes, um, absolutely. Uh Mr. Billfold, I fucking love Tom now. Can we get this Chuck and Tom collab more often? Absolutely, boys. We absolutely have to for sure. Absolutely. Uh uh it doesn't it's funny too because we've known like I banning's like, yeah, I was on their show not too long ago. You know who they are. It's like, fuck, I was on a long time ago. We just we we're busy and we just never really kind of connected after that again. And I was like, I got no problem. Just been a busy dude, and they dropped a hey, can you jump on a live tonight? And I said, Yeah, I'm free. I can do it. Let's go. And so it made it happen. Yeah, uh, here we are again, re-kindled. Um, everybody tonight, man. This is awesome. Great guest tonight. So um, I do want to, I want to at least, I know Tom is short on time, and I want to be respectful of his time. Um, if he has to bounce, guys, that's good. We're still gonna do two or three body cam uh reviews uh because it's just the the chat's popping tonight, so I hate cutting it short when the chat as long as I can. So uh yeah, you stay as long as you can. Um, I know Chuck is just trying to get um alone time with the new baby, so uh, I'll let him uh use this as an excuse so his wife has to take care of everything. I got to, babe. It's for the show. Like we're trying to trying to grow. This will help us. Oh, absolutely. So uh let me let's pull this one up, guys.

Body Cam Review Knife Attack Lessons

SPEAKER_04 2:29:09

We'll get to our first video again. I have not seen any of these videos. Uh nobody here likely has because we went to police activity on YouTube uh and pulled up their three latest videos. So shout out to them. Make sure you go like, subscribe, follow police activity on YouTube. They only have 6.89 million subscribers. So they're probably hurting. Struggling. Um so uh but I like to give credit where credit is due. And so we have not seen these videos. If any of us on the panel have seen them, we'll own up to it and we'll kind of bow out. Uh, but I have not. So we biggie size this one. I did not read any of the details, and let's go.

SPEAKER_09 2:29:52

Hey, partner. Hey, buddy.

SPEAKER_07 2:29:56

All right, just building this. Okay. That escalated quickly.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:05

Okay, like normally it doesn't pop off that quick. Okay, so we're stopping out with a guy on the roadway. Um, and we have no indicators on any of this because we can't see shit. But he comes around the corner uh being Stabby Stabberson, what looked like a knife, and just started stabbing at the officer, and he did the number one mistake officers do backpedal. And now he ended up on his back. So this is why when we tell people to get off the X, what do we do? Chuck, what do you do when you get off the X?

SPEAKER_06 2:30:39

I did I go at an angle.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:40

At an angle. There we go.

SPEAKER_07 2:30:42

So um you'll never outrun a train, but you can step one foot to your left and get off the tracks.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:48

Exactly. Thank you. So again, this isn't this doesn't mean that I'm a credible street cop, according to some in the comments not too long ago, but I know a little bit. Uh so he didn't get off the X. Um, and one way was blocked, right? His patrol car was in the way.

SPEAKER_07 2:31:07

So he could either backpedal or he could oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:10

Yeah, he could either backpedal or go to the right.

SPEAKER_07 2:31:12

Yeah, but I have a question about where he saw the dude and why he chose that place to park. It was you know, so I'm I'm very curious about how his parking ended up that way.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:21

Yeah, I feel like he pulled up right next to him, opposed to going way ahead. And again, how would you guys do it? Me personally, I go way ahead, and then I can kind of start walking back to him.

SPEAKER_07 2:31:31

Yeah, way ahead, or I see him, I stop, I get out, I walk. We were always taught, you know, three houses down.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:38

Right. Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. Get out, get out in front of him, ahead of him, so you we're we're not right.

SPEAKER_06 2:31:45

Yeah, I taught the same stuff. Um, has there been times I've been looking for a murder suspect um or attempt murder suspect who's uh just uh stabbed a bunch of people um and attempted to slice someone's throat, just didn't go through all the way. And he ended up being at my my passenger side door running through an alley just because I couldn't see and it was a blind spot and my partner couldn't see. And I looked to my right and he's right there, and I immediately pop out and draw my gun and he's close, and I said, You take one more step, I'm gonna shoot you, you know, and type of stuff. Um, but definitely you know, you got to get off the X, you gotta move. But there might be some circumstances where it's gonna be right there where you know you pull up and it's the right to your door. But I think generally pulling up before, um, and if you do come right there and you're like, Oh, he's right there, keep driving past it so that you can have that distance and create time for yourself, regardless if it's forward or backwards. Um, because distance is gonna help you and it's gonna create more time to figure out what's going on, it's gonna allow you to react faster or at least have the time to react. Um, uh, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:32:50

Yeah, I think I think the big difference between kind of what you just said, um, and by the way, Lacey just said uh that they subscribe to your channel. So thank you, Lacey. Worth it tonight, boys. Worth it. Got at least one.

SPEAKER_07 2:33:03

Welcome to our cadre of insane follows.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:06

I appreciate you, Lacey. Um the difference I see between with what yours is you had some information about it being a violent person and you came out accordingly. What I'm gonna guess, based on my training experience on this one, is I feel like this was just a casual encounter where he's like, uh, there's some guy that's been that they called on because he's walking through yards or he was doing whatever, and it was just gonna be like, hey buddy, can you please beat feet, not do this? I it was a complacency, normal, everyday call. Right. And it turned into not an everyday call. So that's kind of how I'm looking at that. Banning, you think the same thing?

SPEAKER_00 2:33:45

No, the same exact thing. Figured.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:48

Banning doesn't he Banning thinks he thinks too much like me, and that's the problem. I can't ever get him. Um oh, Cody High Roller. So uh Cody is a uh 1A auditor and In my area, and he actually uh hit me up on an audit one night. Um, un kind of unknowingly, I figured out what he was doing, but it wasn't a big deal. Um, good dude. Uh he has a lot of engaging conversation, but he said cops need to study formalities. Formality is how you present things, how you carry yourself, and how it can affect outcomes, specifically when interacting with people who aren't committing crimes. Agreed, Cody. Agreed. I can't argue that. Okay, so hello, sir. So in this right now, uh, we're stopping over, guy comes out stabby stabby, and we're on our back. So it's everything fucking goes now. Uh everything. Everything's in play. I don't if I have throwing stars, they're coming out, whatever it is. Right. Um, I'm doing whatever I do to get some uh something to defend myself. Likely he's gonna be trying to draw here. He's actually in an advantageous position for a knife. I hope you guys uh know that. This is actually can be a defensive mechanism. You use your feet to keep the distance, your legs can some stabs to allow you to draw your gun and get some shots on target. So um, I don't think that was his intent, but now that he's here, this can be an advantageous position.

SPEAKER_09 2:35:24

67, 62, Marine. He signal 55.

SPEAKER_08 2:35:29

26.

SPEAKER_09 2:35:32

Hispanic male green shirt. He's running through the woods right now. I believe he's got a knife.

SPEAKER_04 2:35:37

So that officer may not even known that he was being stabbed at.

SPEAKER_07 2:35:43

Yeah. And we don't know it was in his hand, we just know he's making a stabbing motion.

SPEAKER_04 2:35:47

It looked like I I thought I saw a knife.

SPEAKER_07 2:35:49

Yeah, it could be. Yeah, I don't care if it's a comb.

SPEAKER_06 2:35:51

You come at me like that, I'm thinking it's a knife. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It did look like whatever it is, it's not friendly.

SPEAKER_04 2:35:57

It is not friendly. No, that's not. He wasn't saying hello, officer, thank you for stopping out. Um, but what did you guys notice with his uh radio edit uh etiquette?

SPEAKER_06 2:36:07

Oh, dude. Uh well, I know what I noticed real quick is he switched his uh gun to his other hand to talk on the radio, which is a big no-no. Yep. Uh I I just I saw that happen a couple times. I'm like, what are you doing? That's not good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:36:25

Yep. And I I think I do I want to give him credit for just and this is why I don't think he truly knew if that was a knife or not, because he's very calm.

SPEAKER_06 2:36:32

He's very calm.

SPEAKER_04 2:36:33

Considering he just got uh aggravated assault.

SPEAKER_06 2:36:38

Uh he's like in shock or something.

SPEAKER_04 2:36:40

I yeah. What's Brian saying? Eric gives the cop shit for backing up and then says uh he should have backed up in case he had a knife.

SPEAKER_07 2:36:51

I'm pretty sure he didn't say any of that.

SPEAKER_04 2:36:53

No, uh I'm giving him shit for backpedaling. I'm saying you should get off the X. Yeah, it's not ideal. It's better than doing nothing, it's better than standing there and getting stabbed in the face, but it's not as good as it's but I'm saying because he is on his back, that's actually can be an advantageous position in a knife fight because it can allow you to use your feet versus when you're standing up and backpedaling, you don't have much to defend yourself and you can get stabbed in a lot more places. So that's what I'm saying, Brian. Um, let me see here. Uh let me Cody said, I am considering recommending more law training uh and more video review and extensive penal code study for police. Do you guys think this policy should be implemented to extend laws training?

SPEAKER_07 2:37:41

Yes, more training. You'll never get me to say more training is bad.

SPEAKER_04 2:37:46

Yeah, I always think more training is good. You just have to, this is the problem. You have to figure it that doesn't work across the board. You could go to where my department is at, and they're really strong in certain training, but they're weak in other sides versus if I go to like where Banny was at, and maybe they're not so good at 1A stuff, but they're really good at tactical training and stuff like that. I don't know. So you you it's a case-by-case basis. I don't think that works blanket across the board. You go to LAPD, one thing LAPD is really known for is their their knowledge of laws and their policies and and all of that. Like they are they're the professionals. That's that's one of the things that LAPD is known for throughout law enforcement is like they're nerdy fucking cops. They come over where we're at in Texas and they're gonna think we're cowboys because we kind of are in the way that we handle.

SPEAKER_07 2:38:43

I moved to a different state, I'm not in California anymore. I moved to this different state. I saw some police work done, and I was like, You did what? Like just where I'm it's just cowboy unlike unsafe or not good, you know, whatever. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:38:57

Yeah, yeah. Mr. Bill he pointed out something good too. He checked his forearm for cuts, yeah. So it that may be a what he why he was like, I'm not sure what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 2:39:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:39:09

Um Brian said, training is only good when it doesn't involve the same fucking thing. God damn, you fucks don't get it. I don't know what he means. I don't know. I don't know what I mean. Training is only good when it doesn't involve the same fighting.

SPEAKER_07 2:39:24

In other words, don't you can't just take do the same thing over and over and over and call it training.

SPEAKER_04 2:39:28

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_07 2:39:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:39:29

Probably shooting at paper, going out of the range, doing this. We got we've got to get these officers to start moving. Moving and shooting.

SPEAKER_03 2:39:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:39:38

All of our range days were actually training days. They were not just putting holes in paper targets.

SPEAKER_04 2:39:43

Yeah, and just like constitutional training and stuff like that, I think it's best done through scenario training.

SPEAKER_06 2:39:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:39:49

I don't think it does you any good to just sit there and read the constitution, say, here's your new case laws, now go forth and and and conquer or whatever. Like, I think you need to go through whatever that case law is and create a scenario based on that.

SPEAKER_06 2:40:04

Yeah, prepap it.

SPEAKER_04 2:40:05

And then because these fuckers aren't out there reading case law every day. You know that. Right. They're only reading case law when it's being forced down their throat.

SPEAKER_07 2:40:12

Or you're changing it.

SPEAKER_04 2:40:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:40:15

Your name is on it.

SPEAKER_04 2:40:16

Right. So I yeah, Brian, I think you bring up a good point. You can't keep doing the same thing over and over. It doesn't fucking help. It doesn't help anything. So um it just didn't read when I read it, I didn't read it that way. But I get what you're saying now. So all right, let's keep going. Um, this this officer's doing a good job now.

SPEAKER_10 2:40:33

Come here, no.

SPEAKER_08 2:40:34

26 H will be 1033 for now.

SPEAKER_04 2:40:36

Here later.

SPEAKER_08 2:40:37

Here in any unit in the area of 11770, northwest 11th place, signal 13 India, signal 55, no 6762 divising.

SPEAKER_03 2:40:47

That's the big bush. That's what he said.

SPEAKER_04 2:41:04

Are you guys gonna go in after him and try to find him?

SPEAKER_06 2:41:07

No. Neither mind. Where'd this guy go? He like stabbed him, was in a fight, and then disappeared, dude.

SPEAKER_04 2:41:12

Well, he was wearing a green shirt, so he just went predator mode. Oh my god. Just hit the Invisy, and uh, you can't see him now. He's tracking you with his thermal. Uh all right.

SPEAKER_08 2:41:27

2001. 26, 1139.

SPEAKER_04 2:41:32

I'm gonna fast forward about a minute because there's nothing going on.

SPEAKER_09 2:41:36

My best got it. Come here, now put your hand in. The subject's coming from the river now. He's got something in his left hand. I can't tell what it is.

SPEAKER_04 2:41:49

Yeah, you got your gun in your left hand.

SPEAKER_10 2:41:54

Get him on the ground! Get him on the ground now. Get him on the ground now. He's got a knife, he's got a knife.

SPEAKER_04 2:42:03

I hear someone else. Does he have another officer with him? Well, they probably showed up. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 2:42:08

Would you have transitioned? Would you go if you have this much time, would you have transitioned to your rifle?

SPEAKER_04 2:42:13

If I have one, some of these guys don't have them.

SPEAKER_07 2:42:15

Oh, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 2:42:16

Yeah. So uh that's that's this is another thing, cops out there. Like, if you are just traveling around with a pistol and you're not you're too lazy to go check out the shotgun or the rifle, like you're you're a detriment to the community. Because this guy is not thinking straight.

SPEAKER_07 2:42:35

Um we interviewed a guy recently on our show. He's a uh sheriff's uh deputy in Oklahoma, and it's like nine deputies for a thousand square miles or something like that. And we asked him what they issue for rifles and stuff, and he's like, they don't. We just get to carry whatever the hell we want.

SPEAKER_04 2:42:50

Yeah, that makes sense.

unknown 2:42:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:52

So they go out. Run that by me one more time. Sorry, I was trying to look at the comments.

SPEAKER_04 2:42:58

He said that they um uh where they they were out and they had like 9,000 square miles, and the they did only had a few deputies, so they got to carry whatever long rifle they wanted.

SPEAKER_00 2:43:07

In their crisis, yeah, we still had uh, even though I'm at a or I was at an agency that didn't have many rules, which was ridiculous, um you still had to carry there's two different rival rifles that you had to carry, and that was that was your only choice.

SPEAKER_04 2:43:22

Gotcha. GQ actually said something pretty good. He goes, he'll get hungry, set the perimeter. I agree, I agree. No need to go in there all uh don't go chasing Rambo up the hill, guys. No, get the dogs. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Yeah. Well, don't put the dogs in harm's way, it'll come out. Uh I'm a dog lover. I'm sorry, I don't want to put the dogs in there. All right, let's keep going.

SPEAKER_10 2:43:46

Get on the ground! No! He's got a knife.

SPEAKER_04 2:43:51

Oh Chucky, you pointed that out. I can't stop looking at it.

SPEAKER_10 2:43:55

Get on the ground!

SPEAKER_11 2:43:58

Get on the ground, get on your stomach, get on your stomach, get on your stomach.

SPEAKER_04 2:44:08

All right. One person talking, boys. One person talking. Command and control. Correct.

SPEAKER_11 2:44:15

I'm gonna kick the knife away. If you move, you're gonna get taste. Do you understand?

SPEAKER_04 2:44:33

He cut himself. You can see his hands bleeding.

SPEAKER_01 2:44:40

We got the teach.

SPEAKER_07 2:44:45

He said I was gonna kill you, bitch.

SPEAKER_01 2:44:47

You're lucky I didn't. You know that, right? You should thank God for that. I would have killed you in your neck, I would have stabbed you in your neck. You're lucky I didn't thank God for that shit.

SPEAKER_04 2:45:00

Well, it's nice he was telling them to thank God. I don't think that had anything to do with God, but uh yeah, I think that had everything to do with uh crazy and luck. I think he got lucky that he didn't get stabbed badly.

SPEAKER_00 2:45:14

And where is most states gonna deal with them at? They're gonna put him in a county jail when the guy needs true mental help.

SPEAKER_04 2:45:20

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's not that's not what I call a bad guy. That's a dude with mental issues that well, yeah, that's not normal human behavior.

SPEAKER_07 2:45:28

Yeah, to be like meth-induced psychosis.

SPEAKER_04 2:45:32

Yeah, that's a thing for sure. Yeah, couldn't carry my absolutely drugs. And it looks like I've dealt with and and people with drug habits that already have mental health issues, that is just a whole nother level. Uh-huh. So um Big C was with you, Chuck. He said the way he was transitioning from right to left isn't even safe. He's gonna have a negligent discharge. Yeah, I guess that's killing me.

SPEAKER_06 2:45:57

That's killing me. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:46:01

Yeah. Um Cody said, would you guys be for a hundred question test that you have to pass with a 90% on a final exam? Because I think if they have that knowledge, it would help before they go out there. No, Cody.

SPEAKER_07 2:46:17

Well, that's a weird assumption that we don't have to pass tests.

SPEAKER_04 2:46:21

I had to pass the test to get out of the academy. Here's here's my problem with tests in general. Some of the smartest people are the biggest dumbasses and make the dumbest mistakes. And if you judge people being smart based on a written test, I think you're wrong in this career field. I will tell you that if I were to pull a barista from Starbucks, or if I were to pull a bartender from your local bar that's hopping all the time, those two guys or girls will make better cops than a guy that graduated top in his class in high school, goes to college, graduates top in his class in high uh college, and then is like, I want to serve, I want to be a cop. I will take the barista and the bartender all day long before I'm going to take Boy Scout that just graduated top of his class. And here's why. The test that we can't test you for, or they haven't developed one that's reliable, is social skills. Social skills and emotional intelligence. If you have those two things, you're a great cop. Hands down, you could be a shitty fighter, you could be a fat blob. If you've got social skills and emotional intelligence, you're gonna be a badass cop. Versus you could be the most fit in shape person and be a fucking nut job and doesn't know how to talk to people and end up shooting a lady with boiling water.

SPEAKER_07 2:47:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:47:47

No circles back around, baby.

SPEAKER_07 2:47:49

Oh gosh. Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_04 2:47:51

I I think I honestly, and and so Cody, that's that's my thing. I I looking at tests, I I wish we could find a way to test people on social skills that was a reliable, consistent test. And I do that hasn't been developed yet because I have worked with them all. Bannon, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 2:48:10

Well, can that be implemented at departments uh that that make their own rules on how they're gonna hire people? Absolutely. You know, but you know, should we should we push for that? Yes. Uh social skills are the number one thing. I I don't know how many guys I've gotten out of the academy, and I've I've spoken about this probably about a year or two ago with Eric. Was I getting guys out of the academy during COVID that were considered COVID T Cole trained, which means that they did a lot of their hand-to-hand or defensive tactics, whatever you want to call it across the state, uh, through video training and never had to demonstrate or exercise that in front of a practitioner. That's horrifying. You know, and then uh then they got, you know, they they were able to, you know, do some handgun training, but some of the rifle training was video based. And then say, once you get to your agency, make sure that you get uh the proper rifle training. I'm just like, where, you know, I understand COVID, I'm not even gonna get go down that rabbit hole, but why are we as academies releasing people during that? Um let's wait till it gets better, then make sure the practical knowledge is there. Right. Yeah. Um no lowering of standards ever.

SPEAKER_04 2:49:17

Yeah. We might not make it

Hiring Standards Social Skills And Training

SPEAKER_04 2:49:19

to another video. I'm gonna probably cap it here so we don't hit three hours, but um Cody uh said the problem I've been seeing is a lot of cops not knowing the law. I think that they need to make a change as it pertains to that area, just like nursing, pummeling, plumbing, and truck driving, etc. I'm gonna say something controversial here, Cody, and you might not like this. And I there might be a lot of cops who disagree with me. Our job isn't to know the law. That's not my job. That's a lawyer's job. My job is not to know the law, my job is to understand the elements of offenses.

SPEAKER_06 2:49:56

Yeah, unless it's a crime.

SPEAKER_04 2:49:57

That that that's all I really we learned the reader's digest version of the law. Otherwise, I'm a lawyer. And even lawyers don't know all the laws, and they study the laws.

SPEAKER_07 2:50:09

Because there's too many laws for one person to know. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:50:12

Let me let me add to that, Eric. So go ahead, knowing the law and and speaking about the state of Texas, and then there was a deal called the Sunset Commission and T. Cole and everything else, and then legislative changes on how many questions they were going to add to the basic police officer academy. Uh so when I got in in 2002, I aged myself a little bit. Uh I believe, and don't quote me on it, it was a 212 to 215 question final exam. And that was a lot over what's called the CCP, the penal code, the traffic. It had a bit of everything, and there was five different versions of the test that were going around the state. So even if you were sitting next to a peer in the academy, they're gonna have a completely different test to make sure that ethically, you know, nobody's you know cheating on it. But the the test questions have gotten longer. Some scenarios have gotten better in the academies, basic scenarios, but it's still not and it's not designed to turn these officers into peace officers. And I understand the argument of yes, a barber goes through a technically a longer school uh for health and safety. And I I understand all that. But it just like Eric stated, they're teaching us the elements of the offense to where we know if we even have a violated law in our presence or view is where they're trying to get that in the academy.

SPEAKER_04 2:51:30

Yeah. Um I like I like Ryan's comment here. Ryan said, if only cops had some kind of smart device, they could look up the laws on the fly. And I want to say that what I am seeing now is they are developing AI internally that doesn't that doesn't venture outside the police network that you that they're gonna have this ability now. Where before, if you look up a law on on your phone, you're using Google, and you're like, all right, Texas law, what's this? Um or on their computer in in the car, they'll have like the Texas statutes and Texas laws and stuff like that. Uh we do that. We do. And but a lot of times where people start getting mad at cops is they just detain somebody. Well, they don't even know the laws, they're detaining them, and they don't know if they have a reason to detain them, or they illegally detained them. Well, they think they have the right to detain them, they're just not 100% on the law, so they're like, I think I can detain this guy, let me go check, or vice versa. They're like, I'm not sure. Let me go check real quick. They check and then they go detain them. So, yes, it's getting better. And I cannot wait for you guys to see some of these body cam updates that they're gonna have where it tells them policy in their department, it tells them uh the Texas state law, well, the laws. I keep going to Texas because I'm here, but yeah, so there's a lot of cool technology coming out that I think is going to vastly improve policing. Uh, but again, it's it's that balance. Yeah, double-edged sword, because cops are going to abuse it. It's going to happen. It's not if, it's when.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:04

Right. But if you want to do something too as a cop, like you're like, I want to get, I want to, I want to get dope, I want to get guns, I want to get all these things. You better know what the heck you're doing if you want to go out and do it, do the trainings that you need to do, learn everything, you know, learn what problem cause uh causes. And you should know this coming out of the academy. Learn what reasonable suspicion is, learn the elements of the crime, learn all of that stuff before you go and try to do all this uh this this uh this stuff, and and and you know, uh learning uh narcotics expertise was um painful, but it was some of the best stuff that I've ever done and love narco. Um, love to to get dope as any way I can, and I developed expertise and I developed you know um certain things for certain areas, uh, you know, and then learn all those little different things. This is gonna help you, it's gonna protect you as an officer, and you don't need to wait for your department to do it. You can do it yourself and don't be lazy. It's like anything else. If you have you you gotta train it to be good at it.

SPEAKER_03 2:54:04

Yeah, yep, agreed. All right, boys.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:07

And Cody, keep those questions coming, man. We freaking we we want it. That's why we're doing this. We want a better law enforcement than a whole pieces at a time.

SPEAKER_04 2:54:16

So keep them coming. I think that's what separates us from a lot of law enforcement um platforms, not not slamming the other platforms. They all have really great elements that they do, but we invest in our community. Uh we there's there's not a guest that comes on here that doesn't get away without being asked questions or being talked to or us asking the hard questions. We don't avoid what you guys are saying. Now, I will say the chat does get so busy sometimes I can't I can't see them all, y'all. So and I don't have Alan or uh deadleg with me tonight to to help filter them. So it's just me trying to do that while talking to the all these guys. And so it is what it is. Um but yeah, I think that's what separates us, is uh we I we spend a lot of time trying to communicate with you guys to get your point of view and get the guests that you want. Um, these guys, they they want me to have uh, you know, Texas Law Draw. They want me to have uh honor your oath, they want me to have the civil rights guy. Um I've had Otto the Law Dog, I've had Long Island Audit, I've had San Joaquin, um, I've had a lot of these guys that a lot of the people in our audience follow. Um, my goal is to attract as many anti-cop crowd as I can get. Not that saying that y'all are anti-cop, but you you definitely hold bad cop accountable crowd. Um so that's my goal. I I don't want to placate and have an echo chamber of people that just love cops because they're cops. Right. I I don't think we're doing any good with that.

SPEAKER_03 2:55:46

So I don't love cops because they're cops.

SPEAKER_04 2:55:49

Right, exactly. So that that's the type of crowd we're trying to get. And uh I think we're doing a good job. And our guys really seem to like you guys tonight. So it's uh it's a makes it even easier to ask.

Where To Find Warlocker Show

SPEAKER_04 2:56:00

Ask you guys to always come back on. But I want my guys to go to where you're at. So how do they find you?

SPEAKER_07 2:56:08

Chuck, you know all that stuff, don't you?

SPEAKER_06 2:56:10

Yeah. Go to the warlocker show on Instagram, Facebook. Um, we have two backup, we have a backup.

SPEAKER_07 2:56:16

Um, I don't think it's like our new website for the brand is under construction, but it is the warlocker show.com.

SPEAKER_06 2:56:22

Yeah. Um, you can also email us at check this out at the warlocker show. Um, but if you go to um our Facebook or Instagram at the Warlocker Show, um, you can message us there, DM us there. Also, you can go to YouTube and uh it's the Warlocker Show. Go give us a follow there, hit the notification bell. Anytime we go live, we do a live sheet uh show every Thursday at 7 30 Pacific Standard Time, unless something happens. Matt, he's had a stroke, so you know, sometimes he can't come on, and sometimes life happens to me. Very rarely do we we cancel it, but if we do, we come on, we say sorry, we put up a post. You know, we are human, we are running this by ourselves. So um that's all we we ask is give us some grace when it comes to that stuff. But 99% of the time, we're having uh an episode every Thursday at 7:30 Pacific Standard Time, the Warlocker Show Live. Um, that will happen unless something crazy happens, and then you can follow us there. Click the link in our bio. Um still needs to be cleaned up a little bit as we just did a shift and we're changing things out. Um, but yeah, you can check us out there um and follow us.

SPEAKER_04 2:57:25

Hell yeah. So I want people to understand the the story. This will be how we end it. The story on your guys's logo with the with the cartoon, uh the drawings and all that stuff, because I was offered to become a cartoon possibly, and uh I I want people to know what they're looking at.

SPEAKER_07 2:57:44

So um when we did the rebrand, we basically came up with like animated versions of all of ourselves as different, you know, uh creatures. Chuck's a caveman, Marco, our our South American friend, is uh you know, six foot four or six foot five. Always has always gone by he's the gentle giant, right? So he's like Sasquatch. Um Matt is insane, and he's a jackalope because it just is the most insane animal I could think of, you know. Uh and so it just and then we have uh Clay Novak is a uh author uh and uh army veteran, and and he's come on a bunch of times and wait, he he was kind of he'd come on and fill in a couple of times, and so we're like, we have to give an animated character. So it's it's really yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:58:28

This this is um this is what banning's been on our show.

SPEAKER_07 2:58:32

So it's funny, that's what Clay ended up getting was was he was he's Yukon Cleanelius now.

SPEAKER_04 2:58:38

Yeah. Um to the point where on our Discord channel and and on our YouTube channel, they created uh I don't even know what you call them, the little when they put the little stickers up, they've they created one of banning where he's Yukon Cornelius for too funny.

SPEAKER_07 2:58:54

Let me see if I have uh I could send I'll put the lo I'll send the logo to you, I think. Uh so if people know what they're looking for. But uh yeah, it was just it was just a kind of a crazy rebrand, and we thought about you know what makes us us, what what unites us as people, you know, why do we come together and do this show? And really that's just to kind of you know give people an idea, uh pull back the curtain a little bit on um what you go through when you eat human misery for a living. And that's it. Oh, there it is.

SPEAKER_04 2:59:23

There's the new logo. You guys can see it uh off there to the right. Uh says the warlocker show. And um I could I couldn't get it to go bigger, but there you go. It is what it is. Uh well, thank you guys so much. I appreciate you. Everybody that took the time to donate their hard-earned money tonight. It did not go unappreciated. Thank you very much. Uh, it does help when we do show YouTube stuff and whatnot. It's not uninterrupted because we take your money and we put it into YouTube Premium. Uh, it goes into the restream that we're using. Uh that that's a monthly fee. Uh and the rest of that money goes into whatever equipment we need to keep the show up and running. Um, we're waiting for Banning's equipment to get in, actually, so we can see him in 4K and lagging. So uh uh once you need to take a collection to get him satellite internet or something, I think. It's it's just he lives in the boons, dude. So it's like waiting for fiber to get out there. It's supposed to be coming anytime now, but it is what it is. Um so uh uh real quick, I just this comment caught me. So I'm an ex-criminal and I'm willing to tell the truth from that perspective. The two of that have hats would not mess with you. The other two, I wouldn't would not have.

SPEAKER_06 3:00:44

We've had people come on our show that that have you know gone to prison and done other things and they tell their side of the story. Shit, we had a guy come on who was uh a drug mule and running running dope um from Miami with a plane and ended up working for the DEA. So yeah, we love guys like that.

SPEAKER_04 3:01:00

Well, my bonus my mods try to get um contact info from Lauren. Um shit, we'll fucking have him on next Sunday. I don't give a fuck. Uh see what he got to say. See how the system uh either did you right or did you wrong, or where we can improve and what we're doing well. So uh that is what we do on here, guys. Uh AI Eric is getting an upgrade soon, too. All right, you degenerates, we're we're over. Everybody, thank you for being uh on the show tonight and Warlocker show. Thank you guys for being on everybody. Thank you for have a good night.