The Thin Blue Lie: Deputy Chief Fisher

A retired deputy chief turns whistleblower and suddenly the whole system reacts. Lance Fisher joins us to explain what pushed him from command staff into public accountability work, what he saw in body camera footage and citizen complaints, and why leadership failures at the top can quietly shape everything patrol does at the bottom. We get honest about how departments become top heavy, why patrol gets “decimated,” and how understaffing, growth, and weak budgets can make even basic policing feel like a constant emergency.

We also dig into the hard stuff that gets people fired up for good reason: use of force that looks unjustified, officers who don’t intervene, and internal affairs units that can’t truly be independent when they answer to the same chain of command. Lance lays out his view of “failed accountability, failed leadership,” plus what happens when you actually file complaints, force investigations, and make agencies respond in writing. If you’ve ever wondered why agencies rarely say “we screwed up,” we talk ego, liability, and the public trust cost of staying silent.

Then we go deep on policing technology and privacy. License plate readers like Flock, body cam muting, drones, facial recognition, and real-time crime centers can be powerful tools, but only if policies, auditing, and serious consequences exist before deployment. We also debate national solutions like a police registry to stop “gypsy cops,” the messy reality of Brady lists, qualified immunity, and why prosecutors and courts need transparency too.

If this conversation hits home, share it with someone who cares about police reform and constitutional policing. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us what accountability should mean when the video is already rolling.

Transcript

Disclaimers And Ground Rules

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome to two quick disclaimer. The views and opinions you're about to hear are those of the hosts and guests alone. They don't represent any police department, agency, sponsor, or employer. Two Cops One Donut isn't responsible for anything said by guests or for any videos, clips, or content shown during the live stream. This show is intended for adult audiences only. We cover real incidents, we show graphic and sometimes disturbing footage, and we don't shy away from strong language or adult conversations. There may or may not also be alcohol involved. Viewer discretion is strongly advised. Everything you hear or see on the show is for entertainment and educational purposes. It is not legal advice and it's not tactical instruction. And it shouldn't be used for such. By continuing to watch, you're telling us that you understand, you accept all this. All right, now let's get into it.

Meet Lance Fisher And The Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:51

All right, welcome back. Two Cops One Donate. And our special guest tonight, the infamous former deputy chief Lance Fisher from The Thin Blue Lie. How's it going, brother?

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Doing well, man. I appreciate you guys having me on.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

You like that dramatic entrance? Thin blue lie.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Well, actually, Corum and I'm just trying to see if it's I'm actually live streaming on mine because it's the first time ever. So I figured there'd be some sort of a debacle. My computer should crash or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

So it should be good. We should be good. Um, matter of fact, I can actually check to make sure it shows that you're linked up. Channel's paired. Yep, you're streaming, brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Yeah, it looks like I got one person watching. It's probably me, so that's perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Don't sell yourself short. Uh uh, I checked out your channel. You've got 11,000, 12,000 followers already, brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

So yeah, I think it's I think it's the message. It has nothing to do with me, but I think when you see a retired deputy chief turn whistleblower get locked out of your buildings, people are like, what the hell did he do? Right. You know what I mean? Because that's the only way you get fired, right? I've they say that cops only get fired when they uh when they ride out another cop.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

So yeah, well, let's uh let's fucking get into that. I know you've explained this on other podcasts and stuff. So um, guys, if we don't happen to get into it, I want to just get everybody out there. Um Lance has been on Copville, and Copville's a friend of ours, Mike, um uh along with the anti-hero podcast guys, Tyler and them. Uh so I'm gonna put this across the screen right now. Uh, so if you ever want to check out um his latest, this happened about two weeks ago. He did uh Cottville Hot Topic um with uh Lance here, and I've got the link across the screen right now, and then later on, my mods, uh if they're on, they can share it again. But just so you guys know, check out Copville uh and you can check out that episode. And we're also going to share Lance's YouTube channel here in a little bit. Um, but just so you know, he's he's got material out there if we don't do a full interview style podcast with him because I want him to I want him to go off today. I want him to I want him to tell us what's going down. Um but Lance, let's let's get into a little bit of that. I want people to understand your background. First off, you were a cop. Kind of explain your background, um, what led you into that life of service and what your your specialties

From Marine Corps To Deputy Chief

SPEAKER_00 3:26

were.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Well, I got out of the Marine Corps. I did six years infantry in the United States Marine Corps, and as you know, I was trained to carry a gun. That was it. So when I got out in in Jacksonville, North Carolina, I did four and a half years with Rocky Mountain, North Carolina. Um, and then for my family, we moved to Florida and I joined Palm Bay, Florida. I went through the ranks, I did um FTO, uh street crimes. I I did it all. I got promoted all the way up to deputy chief. And that's kind of where my career um changed a little bit, was that was when I became a deputy chief.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Okay. Now, Banning, you got something here. You guys are brothers. Uh Banning is also Marine, so 0311. Oh, there you go. There's only one, right? Yep, that's right. That's right. Banning was uh he was the first Marine that was over the size limit, but they still let him in. So very nice.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

And I was I was the second, so there we go.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Banning is uh you don't you might not know this about him lance, but he is like literally he could wrestle a bull. He was he's a country boy, he was a sheriff, uh deputy sheriff, and he also was actually a city cop and a canine handler and all that good stuff. But uh yeah, banning was out in that rural area's handling law, lost and livestock and whatnot, and he had to fight a bull one night.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Well, I grew up in Kansas, I grew up in Kansas, so I understand all that.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Nice, all right. Um, I'm terrified of tornadoes, so I can only imagine what it was like.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

So I moved to Florida where there's hurricanes where you get a three-day warning. Right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

I which part of Florida are you in?

SPEAKER_01 5:03

I'm in Palm Bay, so if you see the the rockets that go up, I'm about 30 miles south of that. So oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Um, okay. So you got into law enforcement, you went all the way up, uh, which is that's not super common. A lot of, you know, um, I think it's more common today because what do departments do? They keep screwing with retirements and they're forcing young officers to retire or to rank up to have a decent retirement. So now you have top heavy um leadership that has very little experience.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

That's interesting because after I retired, my chief got ran out that that uh fired me. And then the next one in line literally was a sergeant five years or six years ago. The deputy chief, the deputy chief was a sergeant four or five years ago. And what's crazy is we're uh our city's 150,000. So our agency is almost 200 sworn officers and 300 uh personnel total. So when you're talking about a a chief and a deputy chief that total have less than six years of command experience, that is crazy. And um, that's why officers reach out to me almost on a daily basis and tell me how screwed up their the Palm Bay Police Department is.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

So to kind of break it down, um, my brother-in-law actually retired uh from homicide out in Florida. He was a Michael up in Michigan, in Saginaw, Michigan, and then retired, I think, out of Clearwater. And he kind of gave me the insight, you know, over the years of there's a lot of uh transplant cops in Florida to begin with, and that the agencies themselves, they don't get super huge because there's so many little cities around, but everybody's crime kind of overlaps everybody's crime. And um, so in your experience with that, uh what was the what was the population of the city you were in, about how many calls a year are we all handling so we can kind of get a fit for your area?

Understaffed Patrol And Broken Budgets

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Well, so we we're we're kind of like that. So the the ironic thing about Pombay is I think we're about a hundred square miles, we might be less than that now, trying to run a population of 150,000 people, and we're trying to do that with less than 200 officers. We are, I think, fifth lowest on the um uh whatever the ratio uh officer to population is per thousand people. We I think we're fifth lowest in the state. So our officers are getting destroyed. They're running 23 calls a day, probably. They're running, I mean, they're running massive amounts of land and population with sometimes three officers. And we did the same thing. We went top heavy. The uh current chief is trying to add more top leadership, taken away from that bottom rung and just decimating our patrol guys. Um, but that's a and we bordered three three different jurisdictions as well, and we're the biggest of all those. So that's that is absolutely a problem with jurisdictional boundaries, our our landmass size and the lack of the officers that that we have.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Yeah, that is that's that seems to be one of the bigger problems um across the nation is just being understaffed as it is. And then with Florida, you got the whole influx of uh tourists. So yeah, your population, this is something people need to consider. Just because your population is 150,000, which that's big to a lot of people, um, where I'm at, it's like 1.2 million. But when you consider the workflow that comes in and the uh tourism that comes in, especially with FIFA right now, holy cow, you know, you're talking upwards of 2 million people. That's a big influx that comes in and out that your police officers have to deal with. And if you don't staff it properly and account for that, uh, you're gonna be behind just with your regular population and then those influx of tourists and all the other problems that come along with it. So, yeah, how do we, you know, you were a deputy chief. How would you have started to solve that?

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Well, one is we our our citizens have been begging our city council, please stop growing because our infrastructure is so uh outdated and so small. And the problem with Pombay is we're a bedroom community, we don't have much commercial. All the commercial goes to the cities to our north. And so we don't have that huge influx you're talking about. We do have I-95, which travels right along through our city and and three exits, but our infrastructure is spread out between the our city, like I said, a hundred square miles. And so it's very difficult. And the first thing that we ever asked is please stop growing, stop building apartments and and and residential areas because you're killing us. And um, and without that tax that commercial tax base, we were always we be way behind in equipment. Our vehicles are so far behind. We don't have a year-to-year budget for vehicles. We have to ask every year and try to beg and scratch just for vehicles, and so it's it's brutal for our officers.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Yeah, it's uh banning how I mean, where you were at, you were out in the rural areas and had a very large area to cover, I think. Um, you know, being butted up next to, you know, the DFW area and whatnot. What was some of the solves that y'all had to try to figure out when you knew you were going to be on a call by yourself for 15, 20 minutes or maybe more?

SPEAKER_03 10:26

Well, with without saying leadership was just horrible because nobody would ever say that. Um I'll just give you an example, uh, Lance. It's it's a thousand square miles. The population is low, but dirt roads and paved roads everywhere. So you're you know, if I was out there working a beat, it could take me an hour, hour and fifteen running code at triple digit numbers numbers, which now you're putting yourself in danger and other people to get to a a domestic without backup. Um, because we typically weren't ran with one in the county. On the weekends or 4th of July or New Year's, they try to put one more out there. Um, then it got to the point where we were running two on the weekends. But it's uh logistically, it was really hard to cover that. And then if you look at the analytical spread on uh re you know, the results on receiving the 9-1 call versus being dispatched, arriving on scene and clearing the call because of the antiquated RMS and CAD system that we had, it was asinine. I mean, the the the overtime was through the roof, uh just because of the old dinosaur stuff that we had. Um it's we we tried to fix some things, getting, you know, the first explorer I drove there had uh 216,000 miles on it. Um it was it started its journey in Houston seven years prior as a as a police car, and eventually our sheriff bought it at an auction for I don't know, 50 bucks. And then we got it. Um I know it blew its motor once and they had to replace the motor, which was more than the whole cost of the car to begin with. So budgetary and and stuff like that. Obviously, the tax base isn't high here. Um, our sheriff's office is in the county seat, but it's uh just not a huge tax base. So we, you know, obviously deputies weren't getting paid much. The city that's here, they don't get paid much. Has it improved? Yes. Um, is it is it where it needs to be? I don't think it ever will, but I'm sure it's the same problems that you had there in Florida on different sides of the fence on on many different things. I heard you say in the beginning of this that you only had what, three or four on patrol at a given time for that type of size, or was I wrong with that?

SPEAKER_01 12:32

No, in like one of the districts, so are are we divided up in four districts? So you would have anywhere between 12 and 13. Okay but in a with a city of 150,000 people, they're running, those guys are running from call to call from nine in the morning, they get on at six, but you know, they get a little bit of a breather, but they're gonna run call to call from nine to till they get off at six o'clock. And they're just they're just decimated. And when we start, you know, feeding that top level, and then we take more officers off the road and because we want to fill our specialty units, because we want to we want to put all of our friends and our buddies in those those great positions, and then when our SWAT team trains on Thursdays, there's another 22 people off the road. And if you're not a SWAT guy or an speciality unit, you are just getting beaten up, and there's nobody there that cares because in Palm Bay, our entire upper upper uh chain of command is SWAT guys, and so they don't care if you're not SWAT. Yeah, no, I and I was I was the only command staff member that wasn't a SWAT guy, and I would have been the first chief, non-SWAT chief, since we we went to an outside chief, and that was another reason they just weren't gonna allow that to happen.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. Um, which give me one second, I want to kind of give some shout-outs here because I saw uh cop humor's in the house. So welcome, cop humor. Everybody, any officer knows who cop humor is. So glad to see them in here. Uh oh shit, Long Island audits in the house, too. What's going on, brother? Uh, you got me in some shit. People did not like you being on the show last time, apparently. Well, your haters didn't like you being on my show, so they reached out to my department and tried to tell on me, um, which you can see I didn't do anything. Um, but welcome, Long Island. Uh, wish him the best of luck in his latest video um dealing with a POA issue. Um, I am boss at Eric S COVID. Uh, I am sick. I do have something going on. I don't think it's COVID. Just some. Is it that vegetable thing? I don't know. I'm not I don't have explosive diarrhoea, so worry. Not yet. If I suddenly run out of the room. Um, I want to give a shout out. Uh, John, you don't know this guy, probably. I'm I'm guessing, but old Steve Ladner, uh, he is on your channel. And we had to uh we had to put him in timeout several times on our page, but it is good to see a good old throwback. Um and Steve, since you're here, brother,

Why Accountability Fails In Practice

SPEAKER_00 15:00

I'm I'm going to allow you to have a voice tonight and uh I'm gonna read some of your stuff. Why do we need to pay people that have no duty to protect anyone but themselves? That is true. Police do not have a duty to protect. That's absolutely true. Yet there's example after example after example of police going through and doing the right thing and helping people. And there's also examples of cowardice. Hold the cowards accountable. I do think that they deserve some sort of criminal punishment because you signed up, you swore an oath, and that oath has to mean something. So uh I don't know what you can do. I know in the state of Texas we can do stuff, but uh, I don't know about other states. So what what can they do in Florida if they if they don't follow through with their their duty to protect?

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Well, uh it's it's interesting. And one, just to just to touch on what Steve said, even as a as a deputy chief, I never realized we didn't have a duty to protect. I didn't realize until afterwards when I see all these comments about the Supreme Court said you don't have to protect citizens. And I was I do my research, I'm like, holy shit, I didn't know that. Um, but um in Florida, it there's just, and this is a part of my problem and a lot of my message, there is very little accountability for police officers. You know, and it probably depends on what side of the state you're on, if you're if you're more of a liberal state or like I'm in Brevard County, and we're a heavily heavy Republican, we have an outspoking sheriff, and I've just seen crazy things, and there's no accountability. And that's why my message has been failed accountability, failed leadership. I was a part of both of those problems, and I and I admit to that, and I'm trying to change that because the difference between me now and then is I never talk to the victims of police misconduct. And I do now. I sit down, I talk with them, and I find out the long-term effects that they have when they have bad police encounters. When it when a 70-year-old lady runs a traffic or just a stop sign, and you have an officer standing at her window braiding her, cursing her out, f-bombing her for running a stop sign, acting like it's a homicide. Yeah, it's a problem. And it took me nine months of of highlighting this officer from Palm Bay, even with his background as Columbia, South Carolina, before he finally had to resign.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Jesus. Now, you bring up um a video that we highlighted on here. Uh that it reminds me of that was the um elderly lady that was being um removed from the the jail. Her she, I don't know if she made bail or she was just being released after being drunk for however long or whatever it was. But I know you've probably seen the video, but just as they're about to get her out, they fucking shove her, boom, and just launch her and uh don't check on it. There's there's six of them standing around. The one dude that chunks her, he he laughs and turns around. And the rest of them do the same thing. None of them try to help, none of them do anything. That video sat for over a year. Somebody just happened to run across it on a Freedom of Information Act, uh, and we're like, well, what the hell is this? And like the lady herself didn't even really complain, but it took over, you know, you're going on two years just for that one guy to get fired, didn't get charged, which is insane to me. And then none of the other officers were even named. How how do you claim, how do we claim as cops? Now, you two are former, I'm still doing it. How can we sit there with a straight face and look at other recruits in the academy or new officers and say, we hold the higher, we're the higher standard. You got to rise above this petty stuff. We we're the higher standard when we can't even hold ourselves to a higher standard.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Well, this is what I've been seeing, and this is a lot of my problem. And again, I was a part of the problem. I didn't realize this until after I got out. But we all have duty to report and we all have duties to intervene. In Florida, it's actually a it's even a Florida state statute. And even at federal law, if you have the uh conspiracy to commit uh uh civil rights violations, two or more peep persons stand there and watch civil rights violations, that should be a conspiracy to commit. And but there's no officers don't report and they absolutely do not intervene because cops would rather go to a call with a bad cop than the officer that turned in that bad cop. And I think that's the problem with law enforcement, and that's how we lose the public trust. So I understand I know the video you're talking about, but we see it time and time again. And the the police department or the the agencies aren't going to put those videos out, it just happens to be somebody that comes along, or finally somebody will reach out. They say, Hey, this happened to me. Was this right? And then somebody like URI or um James Madison Audits, Copville, or Sean Paul Reyes, or one of those guys look at that and say, No. And then they highlight on their channels, and then the world wakes up for that one split second in time, and then tomorrow they go back right back to sleep.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Yeah, because it's the it's the virtue signaling that sorry, public. I'm gonna put you out on blast too. Like cops and the public like to do, oh, this is my cause for the next I gotta go to work here in 10 minutes. So uh, this is my cause for the next 10 minutes, and they just get on there and they roast and they share the shit out of it, and then it's out of their mind. They don't think shit about it late, you know, until it comes back up on their feed. Um, so that that is part of the problem is we don't we cry about accountability, but who really follows through? And then the guys that do follow through, they get villainized.

The Whistleblower Moment That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Um, so Lance, that's kind of what I want to get into with you is you decided as a deputy chief, the brass, which um I'm surprised I'm even talking to you because you're so high up there. Uh just a lowly sergeant. Uh, but um you you went up high and you basically stood up for what was right and turned your back against your brothers in blue, so to speak, um, by being a whistleblower, and it did not work in your favor. So, can you kind of tell that story? I'm I know you've told it a million times, just never told it on here. So I kind of want some newer audiences to to hear it. And obviously, I want them to go to your page and follow you, but I want them to know your story.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah, and I and I appreciate that. So, so I was about um a year into my deputy chief. Uh, I was deputy for two years before I was locked out of the building, but I was about a year in, I started, I started watching some of our body camera stuff, started seeing our complaints. We had some officer involved shootings that I don't think were legitimate. I don't think they were justified. I mean, and one of them, we literally, we there's a guy in the backyard with a rifle. Our SWAT team fires through an open front door, through his house, through a closed slider, and strikes him 27 times as he's trying to open the unarmed trying to open up the backslider. So they literally fired completely through this guy's house, killing him. And so then we had officers that were just Pummeling people, just beating them. And it was this the same squad. And I was like, hey, Chief, this isn't right. And then finally we had a gentleman that tased that literally the guy runs a red light and he pulls up beside him. The gentleman's on a motorcycle. He tells his trainee, pull up beside this guy. I'm going to tase him. He tases him off of a moving motorcycle. Obviously, the guy crashes, breaks a clavicle, and five ribs. And I'm adamant in our staff meeting. And I and I tell my chief, we got to fire this guy. He needs to be criminally charged or at least send it to the state attorney's office. Because in the IA report, this officer said, I did nothing wrong. I did not violate policy. And I said, We can't discipline is corrective behavior. It's not designed to punish. And if this officer doesn't even believe he did anything wrong, there's no way we can correct it. And so these issues were going on and on. And my mental stress, I started, I started having issues with um, you know, some mental things I seen along my way. So I sat down with my chief of police and I said, Hey, chief, things aren't going well, man. Um, we're not doing the right things. You know, I'm supposed to be the the uh we were the the path was set, I was gonna be the next chief. And so I sat down with him to have these conversations about not holding our people accountable. And he literally turned to me and said, he said, I don't, I don't need you as my deputy chief. Why do I need you as my deputy chief? And this is a guy that was up until then my best friend. Him and I confided in everything. When you're a deputy chief, you you got one person you can talk to. And so when he said that, I was like, man, I was taken off guard. And then two days later, he comes to my office and he's he closes my door, he gets in my face and he's screaming, you're not right in the head, you can't effing do this job anymore. And um, and I said, Listen, man, I'm a man. You're not gonna come into my office and scream at me. And and we had a screaming match, the same thing that he'd done to the his previously, his previous chief. And the next thing you know, um, I'm locked out of the building for filing a whistleblower complaint um and and holding him accountable. And so that's how my journey started. And so I was ultimately uh separated uh four months later. And so I started going to my city council to speak on behalf of myself. I was angry. You watched that first Cop Bill interview you talked about, I was angry. I did 25 years in law enforcement, and they tried to separate me on a Friday afternoon to tell me I was gonna be separated on Sunday. Two-day notice, my family, all on my insurance, with you know 25 or 20 years of experience with this agency, 25 years in law enforcement. I was furious, and they did. They locked me out of the building, they separated me. And so I went to my city council for over two years talking to them about police misconduct. And finally, just like you said, my deputy mayor said, I'm embarrassed you're ever, the deputy chief, you turned your back on your brothers and sisters in blue. So it was ironic that you said that statement. And I kind of stood there and I was like, but I didn't turn my back on my on the citizens, and that's what I'm most proud of. And yeah, so that's kind of where it went. And then I kept going to council, and finally one day the deputy mayor said something just something so idiotic. I said, you know what? I'm tired of talking to you guys. There's 12 people that actually watch your city council. And so I said, I'm gonna go figure out another way to do this. And I literally went home that night, I think it was October the 3rd, and I Googled how to start a YouTube channel. And that's how Thim Blue Lyot it started. And and I didn't have much, I didn't put much heart into it. Um, I did it religiously for like a month and a half. Then I had a grandchild, then it was the holidays, and I said, ah, you know what? I'm retired, let's live the good life. And then January 8th, Mr. City Manager Morton came out of the blue. I'm at a city council meeting. I can't even talk anymore because they've changed the they've changed the city council meeting where I couldn't even talk because I moved outside the city and they immediately signed a resolution saying uh non-residents can't speak. And so then he goes on this 10-minute spiel about me threatening to have me arrested for extortion of a public official, made bold-faced lies about thin blue lie audits that I made some statement I would take down the channel if uh if they would pay me money. And I'm like, what in the hell is this guy talking about? So I went home on January 8th and I went absolutely uh crazy on ThimBlue Lie Audits, and I'm at like 50,000 followers on Facebook. Um, I think I'm at 12 or 13,000 on YouTube because I think the message is resounding, and I think the people of Palm Bay in this area wanted a voice, and that's kind of where it's at.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Damn, damn it just doesn't. I see why it grew so fast, it just it doesn't happen. Um, and when when I started this five years ago, do you know how many actual cops were doing anything? There wasn't many. You had Donut Operator, which you know, his was cool. A little everybody knew Donut. Um, did cool police breakdowns and shit like that, but nobody having what I would consider real conversations. Um, and then it it I would say in the last two or three years, it's really ramped up. Like, you know, you you got Tyler anti-hero guys, you got Mike, you've got um Dominic Izzo, who's he's actually been around for for a while. Um, and you know, former police uh banning uh since retired, but he was an actual um law enforcement officer doing it when we first got going. And it just doesn't happen that much. And so I think it is a breath of French air, French air, fresh air, when it's not a bunch of cops, you know, uh blowing blue. That's what I call it. I'm like, I don't need an echo chamber. I don't need people to come here and tell me how good cops are doing, or that, you know, other cops coming on and be like, yeah, we stay on the thin blue line and all that shit. No, we screw up, screw up all the time. We have to have those conversations, and when you put your head in the sand, how the fuck are we ever gonna get better with it? And so you found something that was major, and you not only had a department turn their back on it, you've got city council turning their back on it. So that's the question. How how do you win in a city when every outlet that you have to make a change is disappeared. They turn their back on you. So what's the next option?

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Well, I I just I don't know if they're I don't know if there's a scenario where I win, right? But let me tell you why they hate me so much. I've been to the FBI National Academy, I've been to the leadership schools in Boston, SMIP, I've been to um FBI Leaders, I've done the trilogies. I am, and I'm not trying to brag, I am the top one person of leadership. And so for me to take a step over that thin blue lie, they absolutely despise me. I've had the U.S. Marshal from the Central District of Florida call me up because he was my past chief telling me I need to stop. I've had past chiefs tell me I needed to stop. And I'm like, why? Why are you guys so afraid of my message? I'm just one guy. That's all I am, one guy. And and I have no idea what I'm doing. I am I am an idiot when it comes to this social uh social media stuff. I was so afraid today that when I I got on live that there would be squelching and things would be blowing up behind me because I have no idea what I'm doing. But how do I win? I stop worrying about that because I'm more focused on on talking to the citizens that have to deal with the police misconduct. Yeah, and that's what I try to do. I try to learn and I try to help them out. And I just try to put the message. And if I see body camera that's screwed up, I put it out there. And and I don't people are like, Oh, you're all you're trying to go out there and bash cops. No, I'm not. I have never proactively looked for one piece of body camera footage, it is all sent to me, or somebody will ask me, Hey, can you take a look at this? And then I look at it and I'm like, what in the hell just happened? How is this even possible? When I have an officer, a Pombay officer on video grabbing and choking a handcuffed pregnant female, and and then the chain of command signs paperwork saying it never happened. And I'm like, it is on body camera. Yeah, how can you not say it happened? So I'll tell you, this is how I'm winning. Because I told you it took me nine months to get rid of an officer. I start filing complaints. If I see a video that's screwed up, I take the policies and the knowledge that I know, and I file I file complaints and I make them investigate them. If you don't want to investigate them, that's fine. Then you send me an email back to saying we didn't want to investigate it. Because you know what I have now? I had 12 million views last or this month alone. There would be 12 million people that will see your stupidity. If that's what you guys want, that's fine. But I know I'm making a difference because even simple, stupid things. I walked in the police department, my own PD, and there were pictures, and not a single officer was still at the agency. And I pointed it out. Next week I go in, the pictures are gone. The officer that was sitting there on light duty for 14 months looked like a grizzly bear. His beard was so disgusting, wearing sunglasses. He looked like a total piece of crap. And then he wants to run his lip, he wants to run his mouth to me and say, You used to be normal. I said, What do you mean, normal? A scumbag like you. I said, You look like crap, Kenny. And then I do a public records request, he's been on light duty for 14 months. I go in, he's back on the road. So I know I'm I know I'm making a difference.

Turning Anger Into A YouTube Platform

SPEAKER_01 31:15

I I hammered Flock, the Flock cameras, because we don't have a policy on Flock. Our officers can do whatever they want, track whoever they want, intimidate and harass citizens like we've done. They use them for simple traffic enforcement, and we don't have a policy or an audit. And so I go to council and I talk to them. And so the chief of police puts a two-line policy in place right before the city council meeting. So when they ask him, is there a policy? He can say, Yes, there's no policy. It's a piece of crap, piece of paper that says nothing. So I know I'm making change, and that's all I can do.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Oh my God. Okay. So two things. You've already got me fucking fired up, you asshole. Um I talk a lot, so you got to stop me off. No, no, no. You got to stop me off. So, one, here's something that we need to address that you talked about filing complaints on videos you see. Here is one way that police departments get away without having to do complaints, guys. I want you to hear this. If Lance sees a video in Arizona, and let's say that department, they may have a policy that they don't even entertain a complaint that comes from out of state. They may have a they may have something that does they don't entertain a complaint that doesn't come from a citizen of their actual department or city.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

Or in person.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Or in person. That's another one. So these are fixes that we have to get. Um now we have to be careful too, because it doesn't take much for a small agency to become very inundated with a viral video. And if you've got 300,000 fucking complaints coming in, well, okay, uh, like I get it. So I don't know how I don't know the remedy for that, but that's something to consider. So I kind of understand that policy a little bit, but at the same time, I think if it at least comes from within the state or however it may be. Anyway, um, and then when it comes to technology and policing, um, so you brought up uh the LPR systems flock. I have a huge problem. And Boston was one of the great departments that they refused to get body cameras, absolutely refused, and they were demonized for it. And why were they holding out? People, oh, because they're trying to hide doing corrupt shit. No, they refused to make a policy for it before they gave it to them. And they were like, we're not wearing it without a policy because, Lance, you tell me. People are gonna go on witch hunts internally. Cops could get it from both directions, they can get it from from everywhere. So if you're not gonna have the policy in place, I'm not wearing it. If you're not gonna have the policy in place for the technology that is a huge, huge uh liability when it comes to potential big brother shit like cameras, you have to have the policy in place before it ever gets implemented. And the fact that your department didn't have that and they didn't give a shit, that is exactly what pisses me off because it is a great tool. We've caught kidnappers, we've caught um, you know, pedophiles, we've caught all these sick fucks with great tools because we have really good policies in place, auditing systems in place. So when you do step over the line, we're gonna hammer you. You're gonna get fired, you're gonna get charged. Um, and I don't know if you know this, but uh some of the LPR companies have recently come out with an updated auditing system. And now you're seeing cops getting fired all over the place. So that's a good thing. These companies are hearing us, they're listening to the public, and they're they're trying to fix some major issues like this, where these departments aren't, if you're not gonna audit yourself, they're gonna audit for you. And then if you don't do something with that audit, I hope they fucking hammer your department.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yeah, and I think that's the problem. Like, so uh full disclaimer, I brought Flock to Pombay in most of Florida. I sat down with Garrett Langley, the the CEO on a one-on-one, and and we talked about doing a pilot program. But even then, I've talked about my failed lead failed leadership. I didn't even think about a policy, you know, didn't even didn't even, but we went five years without one. And it wasn't until after I got out that I saw I saw body camera footage where officers and sergeants were laughing because they were using them for simple traffic stops. And that's as absolutely a prohibited it's prohibited in the agreement with Flock. So is harassing and intimidating our citizens, but I know for a fact that we had an outspoken citizen that was that was just brutalizing our our school systems and some of our elected officials. So we use Flock for over two weeks to follow and track him, trying to arrest him for some BS uh driving a vehicle with no registration. So I know for a fact we use them again against prohibited um activities that Flock's agreement says we can't do, and we did it anyway. And so that was my biggest problem. And I've said Flock does have some huge advantages, and I say Flock, and I know it's generic for ALPRs, but Flock for me, for my community, that's a big thing. And our chief doesn't again, when you have an inexperienced chief that has never been to any other agency that was literally an explorer 15 years ago, that's the problem. He hasn't he he worked for Publix, he doesn't have any military background, he has nothing. He's the greatest bagger in the history of publics, but he sucks as a chief because he doesn't have the experience, and it's an is it a knock on him? Sure. But I told my city manager, please bring in an outside chief and give him some command level experience from outside of the agency. Love Buckeys, by the way. I'm so jealous. Um, I was just getting right to say you have a Publix, they make really great sandwiches if nobody knows that. I love Publix, they do, and so you're right. If we have technology and we don't have policies to back them up, then we are in trouble because even with the greatest auditing, our policy can't you can't hold anybody accountable because there's nothing that says they can't do it, they can literally track their ex-girlfriends, wife, friends, family, foes, and there is nothing that prohibits them from it. And if they do, there's nothing that disciplines them for

Filing Complaints And Forcing Investigations

SPEAKER_01 37:06

it.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Yeah. Um, I and boss said, Eric, how does your department view you doing this channel? What about your peers and subordinates? Honestly, I've got nothing but great support. Um, and I I would not I I wouldn't talk trash about my department anyway, because that would jeopardize my job. You guys know that, but I also wouldn't give them kudos unless I thought they deserved it. And it's one of the things that I really like about my department. I love my job. You guys know I love my job. I'm an optimistic guy. I'm a real um an idealist, not a realist. Um, I'm an idealist. I I do, I got my head in the clouds all the time. I always think that I can improve things. And my department supports that. Um, and and they've always been real, no one's really given me any grief at all, ever. Um, have I heard like little rumors here and there from maybe some of the officers out there that are new on the department, don't know me, don't know nothing about what I do, and just kind of take it at face value. Yeah, I've heard some stuff like that. But no, for the most part, get pretty good support. Um, but again, I think I'm a product of how my department thinks as well. I see how we're doing it, we hold people accountable really well. Um and when I I mean, the stuff you guys hear me talk about, a lot of that education came from my department. So uh, you know, a lot of my First Amendment stuff. Uh I was talking to Lance offline. I was like, you know, the First Amendment stuff, like we have really good training on that. So when we screw it up, like I'm like, that's on that officer. That's not on the department's training. The training's good. Um, so I this is the this is the rub. This is the hard part to tell the public is like, hey, we trained that officer in this certain thing. I they didn't either pay attention or maybe there's now there's a gap in the the system that the checks and balances for did they retain the information? Because you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. So I don't know. Uh I don't know the answer to that. But no, um, to answer your question, I am boss, is yeah, uh I've I've gotten great, I've been doing it five and a half years, guys. And you know, like I said, I've I've had people complain to IA on me uh for doing the show, not from my department, but just all across the nation. And I've never had any no issues, none. Not even a pull me to the side and say, hey, like they're talking about you up top. So what do you got, Benny?

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Just gonna say, thank God for the first amendment.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Amen. Right? You know, and and in Lance, we go into general orders and like you said, policy. Here's the rub that uh I'm gonna say I said that a lot tonight. I'm not gonna say here's the rub anymore. Um let's say we do catch people at your old department screwing up the the policies that you already had in place that you agreed to with Flock. They're not allowed to look it up for um pulling people over. What is the punishment if they get caught doing it?

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Well, yeah, I think I think so we have David here in Florida, which is basically your driver's license information. And our David information is sacred. FDLE, um, our yeah, our state uh law enforcement agency, they're the ones that control that. And we still have officers that are screwing it up, and it can go anywhere from uh suspensions to losing your certification. And I think the for you know, for Flock, citizens, they they like their privacy. You know, they believe that the government, a lot of a lot of us don't believe there should be mass government oversight. And so I think it just has to be like I talked about corrective behavior. That's what discipline is designed to do. So it should be a stepping stone, but you know, eventually, right, if somebody's just going to continually over and over violate policy where they just don't care, and we have those officers, then it it just should be a stepping stone. Start small, get bigger until we change behavior. And if we can't change behavior, that's when you have to make bigger decisions. Um, and that that's just kind of where I'm at.

unknown 41:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

So here's oh, go ahead. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I knew I would do this too many times. My wife says I talk too much, but no, no, you're good, brother. You you said it right. Um, when you're talking about holding people accountable, but when you have policies in place and then you don't you don't even enforce them. And and I keep I like a simple stupid thing in our policy, our our orders say you have to wear your hat on backwards. And then we have officers will wear their hats backwards. And some people say, You're just nitpicking, then change the policy. If not, then don't wear your hat backwards. Because here's here's a true story. We had an officer involved shooting, it was our street crimes guy. They're behind their doors, and the only thing that you could see was their hat. And guess what? They were on backwards, so they had no police identification. So maybe that policy has some merit. I don't know. But if you don't like the policy, then get rid of it. But if you're gonna have a policy as as as minuscule as it seems, you have to enforce it. I'm not saying fire somebody because they're wearing their hat on backwards, but in a hallway, can't some can't a sergeant just simply say, Hey, you mind turning your hat around? It looks like crap.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Right. It's as simple as that. A lot of problems could be solved. Again, I I put the majority, and I hate I hate doing this, but I do put a lot of the problems in police departments on supervisors. I I think the first line supervisor sergeant, my position, we are the we're that that that buffer between the upper and the lower. And I have to, I might not like what the chief's got going on, but my job is to make sure his mission is done the way that he wants it done. Because one, that's how chain of command works. And a lot of times we don't have sergeants that are even willing to do that. They want to be the buddy, they want to be, they love to say, Well, I'm gonna be the, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop the upper chain from messing with my guys. I get that when it's warranted, but that's so few and far between. There is ever a time, rarely ever a time, you as a sergeant need to really step up and and protect your guys. Because if they're screwing up, they're screwing up. Like, hey, you knew better, you're not supposed to be wearing your hat backwards, bro. And I got you on body cam here, you're wearing it backwards. If I say nothing, it's gonna get up to the top, they're gonna see it, and then it's gonna be worse. It should be, it should be. But if it if they do anything about it, but it's oh sorry, it's like Officer Scott Kenny.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

I talk about he sat there for 14 months, his beard was out of his beard was out of policy, he was he was not shaving, he did he looked like crap. And for 14 months, how many sergeants walked in and out of that police department and and not one of them? And so, what what happened? You want to protect your guys. That's what we all say as supervisors. We wanted to protect our guys. If you wanted to protect Officer Kenny, all you had to say was, Hey man, can you do me a favor and shave tomorrow? You don't have to be a jerk about it, you don't have to write him up. You simply say, hey man, if you want to be on light duty and you want to sit at this front desk and talk to our citizens, you need to look presentable. And then, but no, they didn't protect him. And now he looks like an idiot on thin blue light audits. One, because he ran his mouth. When I told him, just go in, just hey, walk through that door and close it. Don't look like an idiot. And then two, if somebody just simply have told him, besides me, yeah, shave. Because when I told him, the next day he was shaved.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Yeah. Yeah. It's little stupid things like that. But here, I kind of want to go back to the technology thing because I'm really passionate about it. Um,

Tech Without Policy Is A Time Bomb

SPEAKER_00 44:37

I'm there's a there's a nonprofit organization I'm the vice president for training and development on. It's called the National Real-Time Crime Center Association. And that's one of our jobs is to come up with best practices. And this is one of the things that I'm fighting so hard for departments to take seriously. And I'm trying to convince chiefs and and sheriffs and city council and legislator. Um, like I'm literally going to DC to talk to Perf here at the end of July on this. There has to be serious consequences for violations of serious technology. Now, you know, you your camera gets bumped in the middle of a search of a car and turns off or something like that. That shit happens. Anybody that's worn a body camera, that's another thing. Fucking chiefs that make policies and rule things on something they've never fucking worn. That drives me insane. But I digress. Um uh I've worn a body camera for a long, long time. And uh it happens. You're searching a car, you're trying to look under a seat, it's it's on your outer carrier, and you sit down and you squash the power button on accident trying to look and it turns off. And oh shit, turn it back on. Like, okay, I'm not saying fire that guy. That's not that's not who we're going after. Um, but people that you know, I don't think you should be able to mute your body camera. I think that's a redaction team's job. That's a redaction team's job. There's no reason to, and and I'll give credit to this show. I never really considered it because, like you, you've admitted, Lance, like you know, there's certain you're in a fishbowl. And in our fishbowl, the explanation to me was like, well, sometimes there's sensitive information that gets shared, or there's tactical information that gets shared, and you don't want the public to have that. And I'm like, oh, that makes sense. And I I didn't, I just didn't really push that issue. I'll admit, I didn't really think about it. And then, you know, our community here was like, no, like have the redaction team do that. They should get all the information and then it should be redacted. Like, that's how you should do it. I'm like, oh, that makes a lot more sense. So I go into this technology stuff and I'm like, we have drones now, we've got LPR systems, we've got uh facial rec that's out there. Um, all of this stuff is serious, serious things. It needs, if you're going to use this stuff, I need to know who the officer is that's using it or civilian, because there's civilians that use it. I need to know the case number that it's related to. I need to know that that case and when this stuff was used is all being tracked, it's being audited, it's being used for the appropriate things, and that people are checking on this stuff. Like I need to know all of that. And every anytime somebody violates it, it needs to have a serious fucking consequence. And I'm not talking just uh a write-up. You need to be fired and you need to be charged. That's it. How else are we supposed to gain the trust of using these very, very powerful tools? You know, like a drone flying over your homes. Like that's a serious thing. And I think they're great. I love them. Everybody knows I'm a huge tech guy. I love the tech, but you got to use it appropriately if you're gonna keep the trust of the people. And you keep their trust by hammering the people that fuck it up to us. And I don't know. I uh that's that's people ask me, we talked about putting your money where your mouth is. Like, that's one of the ways I put my money where my mouth is. I'm actually going to DC on the 29th to try to put my money where my mouth is to get exactly what I'm telling you guys put in place so it's a national standard. Am I gonna be able to do that? I don't know. I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Well, I hope so too, because you're right, you talk about public trust, and that's what that's how that should be how an agency is rated. How much does your public trust you? Are you turning your comments off on social media because you can't stand criticism? You know, things like that. Or just like you just said, do you have officers that are violating people's rights? They're throwing them in handcuffs, searching cars illegally, and then you do nothing about it. Or are you allowing them to do whatever they want with the technology at hand? Because you're right, technology is getting scary, and cops aren't the smartest people in the world. That's why we're cops, that's why we have to have rules. I mean, look, I can't even go live on my social media, but that's why we have to have strict rules. We have to have play-by-play books. Open up the book, read it. Uh well, I can't do that. Sorry, ma'am. I can't, I stopped you for no reason. I gotta let you go because we make mistakes, and that's what I wanted to get to, and I completely forgot. Why is it so hard for agencies to say we screwed up? I'm sorry. Liability is the only thing I can think of, or egos. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

That's every video you see a cop do something fucked up in. Is it's usually the ego issue. They could have just said, Oh, hold on one second. Uh, you've got me doubting myself. Let me go check.

SPEAKER_03 49:32

Yeah, and then you have then you have city attorneys telling the PR, you know, PIO, whoever, hey, on the liability side for the civil side, just let's just go ahead and just let it boil over and don't say, you know, just don't even make a public comment. And that drives me insane.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Quick shout out, real quick, to Harrison. He just dropped 20 memberships in the uh chat there. Thank you, Harrison. Guys, anybody that feels uh compelled to put their hard-earned money towards us, uh, you do directly help support the show. Um, so thank you very much. None of that's going in me and Banning's pocket. Obviously, he's drinking out of a Bucky's cup, and uh I drink out of the same cup every freaking show. So um it's not going in our pockets, it goes right into the show. So it goes to our premium YouTube thing, so you guys don't have to watch commercials. I am sorry that YouTube is throwing so many ads up. I'm trying to figure out how to stop that. I don't know how to do it. Um, because kind of like Lance, I kind of figure this stuff out. I I troubleshoot as people bring the problems to me.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

So I do what I do.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

But I digress. Thank you, Harrison, very much. We really appreciate that. Um, but yeah, I I'm hoping that Okay, let me go back just slightly to what you said. When we when we discuss these videos, because this is kind of what got us started on this, is people send us these videos and and we talk about them. Now we can only talk about what's presented in front of us. Sometimes we can dig deeper into them. Um, I had one video that I showed recently where a female officer got brushed. A guy went over the white line while she was on a traffic stop. She jumped in her vehicle and pulled him over. And the guy unasses the vehicle and he's acting a little mental. Like it's not a normal traffic stop by any means. So she gets out and she's like, you know, get back in your car. And he didn't listen. So now she's getting her taser around. She's like, get on the ground. And now the guy's like, Well, I don't want to get tased, so I'm gonna get back in my car. And she's like, No, no, no. I told you to get on the ground, and you know, you can't let them get back to the car necessarily. So she tases him because if you get in a fight there, and this was, you know, people were giving me shit, well, why didn't she just go hands-on? Because you don't want to get in a fight on the side of a busy road. Like, I don't want to. Taser's a distance weapon, use it, see if it gets the compliance you need. So she does, she launches the darts, good connection, guy goes down. Well, she proceeds to tase this dude seven times in a row while trying to yell commands at him, not giving him any opportunity to do any of that. And I don't need to see a full investigation to have a con to have a well-informed, educated opinion based on my 20 years of experience. And turns out she had fraudulently um signed her training documents on taser. So she got fired, which I give the troopers of that department um credit. They fired her pretty fucking quick after reviewing the video. Um, because she did have a righteous chase uh tase, in my opinion, at the beginning. And I say that I'm like, well, the first tase I was okay with, but you can't, you know, you gotta give homeboy a chance to comply. She gave him no chance to comply. I mean, she just kept going. And so poor guy got tased the shit out of. Um, she gets fired by the department. Great, she should have got charged. The DA that wouldn't charge her hired her. You can't make this shit up, people. So here you got a department that did the right thing. Where's the accountability? You don't even get charged, and then you and I are gonna get shit from other cops because we're judging a video without knowing the whole story. Do I need to know everything to have an opinion? If you tell me something later on or some new update comes out on the case, I can have I can change my opinion. I don't have to be married to the idea, but damn it, we need people in our field to have opinions. People refuse to do it, and then you want to go dance on TikTok for followers and views, but I'm gonna get shit for not knowing the full investigation. Shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

And as cops, we should be pissed when we see videos like that because it doesn't matter where you're from, right? I mean, I remember when the the Ferguson stuff was going on, I'm having to deal with hands up, don't shoot over here. Oh, yeah, in Pombay, Florida. And so, and that's what so when when cops see other cops doing stupid stuff, they should be pissed off because you just placed me under a microscope that I don't want to be under. I already got this body camera, I got my dash cameras, I got I got Deputy Chief Fisher breathing about down my neck. The last thing I need is some jerk over on the other side of the country doing some stupid stuff that's gonna bring me more uh more scrutiny. I don't need that, and so if we're cops, we should be this is why the Marine Corps has the uh the blanket parties, because if you screw up, everybody gets to punch you, and that's the way it should be. If you screw up in your agency, everybody should get to smash one of your fingers because stop doing that stuff because you're hurting everybody. Seriously, you're hurting law enforcement in general, you're holding, you're taking away the public trust all across this country, but we don't. As cops, we defend it, defend it till the death. Back the blue until it happens to you. And you know, until until other officers say, Hey, I wish we would all just stop doing stupid stuff. And when we see that kind of stuff, let's just speak out and and end it. Hold people accountable. That way, I'm not every time I have to deal with people, they're laughing or they're yelling at me, screaming at me because they but they see me as the last cop they dealt with.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

Yeah, I I think um, you know, I just shit, I just had a run-in a couple days ago. Uh, my wife was she doesn't let me drive because I drive like a cop. So uh she gets car sick very easy. And so she drives everywhere and sitting there and she's like, This cop is riding my ass. And I look back and she was right. Homeboy is like, I'm like, what the fuck? You know, it's daytime, it's like one in the afternoon. So I'm like, it's not like the busy time, but whatever. I was like, just get over. And so she gets over, he goes passing by, hands on the wheel, bag of chips, he's feeding his face while no blinker, he is weaving in and out, and I'm like, this dude's a fucking asshole. Like, that's my impression of this guy, and so we we end up hitting a light. I'm like, you're in such a big goddamn hurry, and you're now you're at the same light as us, and you're driving like a prick. And then sure enough, he gets up behind her again, and I'm like, all right, I'm done. Like, I so I throw the bird out there. I'm like, fuck you. I I hope you pull me over. I hope you pull me over. He didn't, unfortunately, for me. He was too, he's too engrossed in his potato chips, but you know, goes and does his thing. But I think it's our job as a cop. Like, you're talking about the accountability side of things. It's like, who can hold a cop better or accountable better than another cop? Because I know the rules for you in general. And when you drive like that and you're acting that way, you it's the same guy that's gonna pull somebody over for doing the same thing to try to go on a fishing expedition to see what other shit you can find and and violate all their time and rights and all this shit. And you would be okay because you did get a violation, but now you're a hypocrite cop, and that is the worst cop. I hate that shit. Don't be a hypocrite cop. Not at all. I cannot stand that. That's why I'm I'm not a big ticket guy. Like, if I wrote you a ticket, you absolutely had it fucking coming. That's all I could say. If I wrote you a ticket, you were doing some foul shit that I never would have done. And you you probably had the background to go with it. So you know, I'm just I'm an educator. That's what I like to do. Educate people. I think that's that's part of our our drop, our job. So uh my mom, my mom's on the the chat, by the way. She said, No, Eric, Eric drives like my father did. My grandfather was a firefighter. He also drove crazy.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

Did she drink? Did she drop you a 20?

SPEAKER_00 57:47

Not tonight. She's on a budget. Those days, those days are over. Yeah, no, she does. Shit, my mom, when we first got started, bro, she bought me a laptop for the show.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

So yeah, I still use the shit out of it, too. It's a great, it's one of those MacBooks, man. She's she she's mom's been a number one supporter since I got going. I can't uh I I can knock her for a lot of things, but I can't knock her for that.

SPEAKER_03 58:09

I don't know the show that she's missed.

SPEAKER_00 58:11

I yeah, I think, yeah. Well, she has missed some because I I'll throw them on odd days. Like I'll do bonus ones on like a Saturday where my wife and kids are out busy doing something. I'm like, well, fuck it. Let's, you know, 10 a.m. Let's throw a live and see who's on. So I'll do that shit. Any chance I can get on just to come on and bullshit with people and see what's on their mind. And again, try to improve things, try to figure out um what people want us to talk about. That's an another thing that I do, Lance.

Registry And Brady Lists For Cops

SPEAKER_00 58:40

When you create content, it's really hard to see other people's content.

SPEAKER_02 58:43

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

You know what I mean? So um, one thing that I do is called the gray area. It's a new thing that I kind of started doing where I'll take a deep topic, um, like defund the police, and I'll hammer it from both sides. Like, here's how I see it from the citizens' view, from all the feedback that I've gotten about it from our community. And then I'll also kind of get into it about the police side and and show how that can affect a department in in a good or bad way, and then try to offer fixes. Try to say, like, you know, I'm not, I don't want to be the guy that just bitches to bitch. I need to offer solutions with the things that I'm going to complain about. So talk about ways to help fix those issues. So they're they're like 15 minutes long. I try to keep them short, but something that's, you know, people can get behind. And then uh the latest one that I did, I kind of want to get your opinion on this is police registration. I want a national registry for police. If you got fired, you you tried to get on a department, you got on a department, whatever it is, there needs to be a national registry. That's the first thing a backgrounds uh investigator checks out anytime you try to go to a department, and you'll you'll I think you'll help stop these rogue roaning cops, like the one that killed Sonia Massey with the boiling water. Did you ever see that video?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

That one, oh my God, me and Banning were fucking hot that night because we watched it like the day it came out. We we didn't know what we were getting into. And uh, you know, anybody that's been a cop for a reasonable amount of time in the streets knows I'm like, I would have left here, I would have fucking left here. Oh, I would have left. I would have never even made it into that house because I'd have been like, she's nuts. There's nobody on the outside of the house. I got nothing. I'm gonna go. But no, they got that ID crack happy, you know, had to get her ID, had to know more, had to press, and then turned into you know, Sergeant Slaughter inside the house. Did I freeze up? Sorry, my video. I didn't know if my audio froze up with it. I don't mind if my video freezes. You don't need to see me anyway. Um, but uh what was I getting at with that? I lost my train of thought. Uh oh, the the registry. Um, squirrel. Uh with the registry, he was at six departments in four years. Yeah, scary. Like, how the fuck didn't that get flagged? Like, how is that not a just big blinking red light? Like, no, don't hire this dude. Like, there's you don't have to be the smartest guy in the world to know that there's something wrong. Even if there you can't find anything wrong, I'm not hiring him. And if you do hire him, this is where the national registry idea comes in. You need to sign your name, you're the chief, Lance Chief Fisher. You need to sign your name to you hiring him with an explanation of you understand all his history, but you're still gonna hire him. And if a thing gets fucked up like that, now you're gonna be held liable as well. I bet you stop that rogue shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

Well, I believe if you stop, if you start firing chiefs when your people screw up, you'll you'll solve a lot of that problem. But so I do I talk a lot on Bivar News, which is a local media site that that also tries to hold governments accountable. And one of the things, probably a month and a half ago, one of the topics I brought up was exactly that. I believe there should be a registration for officers. And the reason I say that is because we hired a rogue cop. When I saw, and I and I talked about him uh earlier today, I saw a video where he's he um literally a supervisor's on his way, he ends up breaking this lady's window for a flock hit. Um, not even she's not even the person in the flock, but they stop her and they hold her, and he breaks her window, she flees to her house, he kicks in her front door all by himself, drags her out of the house, um, chokes her, strikes her in handcuffs. And then I start looking at it. And so I just do a Google search one day because I'm so pissed. And man, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, South Carolina fired. Um, whoa, I hit something. I don't know if you guys can see a calculator. I'm gonna try to get rid of it. No, you're good. I just see your ugly face if I click if I click it, I'm gone. I knew something was gonna happen. But all of a sudden, this Google history shows Columbia, South Carolina, um, eight excessive force cases in five months, or eight use of force cases, five months, where the average officer has one um knocked a handcuff uh prisoner unconscious, just crazy stuff, grabbing another one by the throat, uh sustained IAs. Um, one piece of paper says he's terminated, another says he resigns. He goes over to mascot, Florida, where he's involved in a uh a police brutality lawsuit. He's being sued for a million dollars by a city councilwoman for mascot, and then we hired him not once, but twice. And it's in our background. And I'm thinking to myself, how in the hell did this guy make it through three agencies? And we hired him twice. And he's on probation. He's nine days into our second stint when he's grabbing this handcuffed lady by the throat, and our chief of police will not fire him. They say our our our hiring processes are sound, and I'm saying, no, they're not. We have problems, yeah, and I think just like that, if we had some sort of because we call them nomads or or gypsy cops, that's what we call them. They just they just tumbleweed, tumbleweed cops, and they go from agency to agency. And he's since resigned from Pombay and he's looking for a job somewhere. He'll go do a security job for two years, like he always does, and then he'll sneak his way back into law enforcement and he will terrorize another city because we are the third city he's done it to. And so we have to do something like that because our background people are not doing their checks. Yep, you didn't even do a Google search.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

Yeah. And and if the background, and and this is kind of a twofold. If the registry is done the right way, it will help guys like you. They got railroaded. Because if that's done properly, then investigations, when they're done, uh a background check's going to easily be able to see what happened to you, in my opinion. They're gonna be able to look at the investigation, be like, this has got a bunch of fucking holes and politics written all over it. Like, I'm gonna hire this guy because based on the investigation I see, I don't see a I don't see any wrongdoing. What I see is somebody getting railroaded. And and that that can help good cops, you know, that try to escape a shitty department. So um I I see the registry working twofold. So if you're a cop out there and you're like, well, it's just gonna screw over cops. No, I I see it helping the good ones and yeah, absolutely screwing over the bad ones. That's what I want. Which our profession should do. A hundred percent. But how we don't have one is uh insane to me. I heard they had one going, they were they were trying to start it, but it got squashed in 25. I don't know why, probably funding, but um I think that's something that should definitely be pushed again.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:39

Uh you know, they it didn't take them long to push through Brady, and Brady went nationwide. I am hearing that 25 and 26, that if you're a Oklahoma cop and you move to Florida and you go through the uh all the stuff to become a Florida officer, sometimes that Brady is Brady is not far. Following Lance, can you shed some light on when you were there? And two-part question. Are you seeing people come in from different states? Obviously, they do a lot of lateral transfers. Are you seeing Brady follow? Obviously, during the investigation, more than likely, if it's a good investigator, they're going to find out if that officer's on Brady and then make that decision to hire him. Um, and two, are you are you seeing it having trouble transfer to your district? That type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

Yeah, our state attorney doesn't believe in the Brady list. Um, I think we have maybe one or two officers that have ever been on it, and they're still cops. It never didn't even affect them. Even the officer I'm talking about that was seen on video choking and grabbing a pregnant female while handcuffed, not on the Brady list. The gentleman that tased the dude off of a movie motorcycle, not on the Brady list. The guy that had um uh relations on duty uh allegations um and then pictures sent on duty, not even on the Brady list. Wasn't even investigated for the uh inappropriate relationships on duty. They sustained the other parts that way they didn't have to go out of the certification. I'm not even aware that the Brady list transfers as a deputy chief. I was never told one time, hey, this guy's on a Brady list, or never even asked the question, is he on is he on a Brady list? Right. At least in my county, we don't care about the Brady list. Again, the only way the only way you get fired in um in law enforcement where I come from is if you rat out another cop. And just for clarification, there was never an investigation on me. I've I've pulled my IAs just to make sure. I have one from 2009 where I harassed a burglar, not not even investigated, unfounded. So there was no investigation even on me. And so um they just they just wrote me off. They locked me out of the building and wrote me off. But I uh the the Brady list for us is ineffective. The state at I even I even sat down with my public defender. I went, I was traveling one day and I said, I'm bored, let me go sit down with the public defender. And I brought my I brought my notebook with me. I said, Do you know about this cop and what he's doing? And here's here's the videos, here's where he's lying. Because every report he wrote was a lie, every single report. Um, and they're like, Well, it's the state attorney's uh state attorney's job to put him on the brady list, and that'll never happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:07

So yeah, and and that and that's part of the that's part of the issue with the Brady list, is it becomes political, and you get guys that get put on the Brady list that don't deserve it, and you get it goes both ways.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:18

It goes both ways on that Brady list.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:20

Yeah, you you absolutely get people Brady listed that don't deserve it, and it's insane because nothing they can do.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:27

No, because I followed this guy to court cases hoping that he would have to testify so I could get on the stand and put his history on the stand and force a judge to make a decision whether he was impeachable or not. So I so even on trip he some traffic stops where I saw his videos, I was going to the court cases hoping that he would testify. He just kept dismissing them. Jeez. Good lord.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:51

That's insane. Um, somebody asked, where did they go? Um, Jerry asked, uh thoughts on requiring officers to carry insurance, doctors, lawyers, etc., have to. That along with national registry could help a lot. Um, I've kind of touched on this before. Um, when people want officers to have their own insurance to dump qualified immunity altogether and stuff like that, I've I've I think qualified immunity is messed up. I think it needs to be fixed. One, because cops are never truly held accountable, even when they lose qualified immunity. However, you don't pay cops like you pay lawyers and and and doctors. So now you're gonna tell cops that traditionally don't make that much money as it is. Now they're gonna have to carry their own insurance. And I think the purpose that people want the cops to have that insurance is so they can be they can be held liable and the department doesn't get sued. But guess what? The department's still gonna get sued. They're gonna sue, now they're gonna sue that officer personally, and they're gonna sue the department. They're gonna get paid twice. Um, so I don't think that's going to do what you hope it would do. And then again, if you just drop, and this is just my opinion, I I think if you drop qualified immunity completely, you're just gonna get a cesspool of new candidates to do the job. You're not gonna get the people you want. You're gonna get let the qualifications are gonna go down, the standards are gonna go down because nobody's gonna do the job. They're gonna want some sort of protection. And if you're not gonna pay them the money, the amount of money that a doctor and a lawyer make, because that's why they are able to get that type of insurance, then I don't think it's gonna work out the same way. It I will concede qualified immunity does need reworking. But I think just like defund the police, if you just try to cut it, it's gonna have more problems than it's gonna have fixes. Um, Lance, what do you think on that?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:47

Yeah, I agree. I I think it comes down to simple accountability. And you and you're right. I think there has to be a happy medium with qualified immunity because right now there is almost zero accountability unless unless it's a blatant, literally a blatant murder, right? I mean, you just you just see a cop just shoe somebody for absolutely no reason, right? They will be held accountable. But other than that, I mean, we if we if you watch enough videos, you you're like, how in the heck did they not charge this guy? I mean, I see them right here in my own city. Yeah. But but I agree with you that there has to be a happy median. I don't think insurance is the answer because you're right. The cities are gonna ultimately the taxpayers are gonna pay out anyway. Even with insurance, the officers aren't gonna be held liable because we see officers getting sued. I think we have 12 or 13 lawsuits against Palm Bay right now alone. One of them, one of them is led by Ben Crump. And our city is probably in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:41

Because the same officer I told you about that tased the guy off a move, a movie motorcycle four months later, tays the guy off of a top of a fence line. The gentleman falls over, breaks his neck, paralyzed. They're yanking on him, laughing at him. You're just running minutes ago. And had the chief have fired that officer like I told him to, that would have never happened. And and that's when my and that's when my message changed be from angry Lance to pissed off about our citizens getting hurt and and the and what can actually happen to them.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

And so I think the city's gonna pay for that, but that officer will never pay. I mean, he's been he's been uh named in a lawsuit as well. And even if he had insurance, that qualified immunity is gonna cover that anyway. I just think we have to hold him accountable. Had my police chief fired him, then Thomas Farley would still be alive today. And had my city manager fired my chief of police for not firing Derek Mitchell, then our agency would be in a better place. But when our city council sits there and condones the actions of everybody right down the line and actually gets on the stands at the die saying, We want we want our officers to be war fighters. And I'm like, No, you don't, man. I'm United States Marine, I've been in combat. You do not want me patrolling the streets of Pombay like a war fighter because right it is, and I'm sure you know banning because it's a different world. So you can sit up there and say what you want, but no, but we have to change the mentality and we have to have accountability. That's where it has to start.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:11

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, you want it more like the Air Force, guys. We're we're guardians.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:16

Hey, I'll take the hotels in those in those buffets all day long. Yeah, right. I told my son, firefighter Air Force, because he was like, Dad, I want to be a Marine and a cop. I said, Nope. Firefighter Air Force, and he chose UFC fighter, and now he's an insurance salesman, so none of it worked out.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:35

Oh, there's a guy I follow. He's um, I think that no, he's a he's an attorney, but he's uh he did UFC training. Like he so he you see him, he's he's wearing a suit and tie and all that, but he's got the cauliflower ear really bad. And it's so funny, like the stuff that he comes up with about um with doing law enforcement law enforcement, doing lawyer stuff, like defending people and whatnot. He'll show a video and then talk about he's like, Well, where you screwed up is you should have slipped the jab and then moved into like stuff. Um, so

Qualified Immunity And Courtroom Accountability

SPEAKER_00 1:14:09

all right. I wanna I want to kind of switch gears a little bit, Lance. Since you were you were up top, um I want to have a little bit of accountability time for for guys like me. Okay, I am still doing this. Um you're looking at an active sergeant right now. So what do you wish guys like me would do differently?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:31

You know, it's it's hard to blame the officers. I wish there was a system in place where if you saw something that was jacked up, you could say something. As a deputy chief, um, I tried to have an open door and people could come in and tell me I was wrong. And I and I'd hope my ego didn't get in the way. I recently found out because we had a sergeant that came out and spoke as well, that even me, as great as I thought, and that that I never changed, I did because I became a part of the culture. I just wish when you're talking about accountability, that there were systems in place like us as cops that we could see wrong, because one, we a lot of times we don't even see it. We're so surrounded by the culture that it doesn't phase us one bit. It's just a part of the way we got we were grown up. It's the part of the way that we were raised. Because when we came into law enforcement, we fell under leadership and that's how we were raised. We fell into that brotherhood, the family, the thin blue line. And all those things are designed for we versus them. It's a protect us mentality. And so for accountability for officers, just when you see something that's so outrageous that you have to say, I can't, I can't take it. I have to tell somebody, even if it's your sergeant or even if as as silly as this sounds, an anonymous letter, like the old suggestion box that nobody will ever read. But at least you did something. And so and then don't have an ego. If somebody, if a supervisor tells you you screwed up, say, okay, because we say, No, I didn't. Yes, yes, you did. Go back, just take a step back and look at it. And can you do things differently the next time? And then all I can say is the officers, take one moment and think about the call you just did. Did you leave that person in a better place? Will they forever remember you for how you mistreated them or for how you treated them? And just think about because I never did. I never thought about the person I just left. If I if I violated their rights or I threw them in the back of my car, or I put them in jail just for some stupid little charge of misdemeanor weed arrest, where I could have absolutely put that in for destruction, but I chose to punish them by sending them to jail. I never thought about the fees, the legal fees, did they lose their job? What did that cost them? Did they just lose their license? What did it cost their family? I never cared. And just taking that one small second in life and thinking, before I actually drive this person to jail, or before I arrest them, or before I tell them to go F themselves, is this going to put them in a better or worse spot?

unknown 1:17:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:13

Because whether or not the Supreme Court says we have to, our job is truly to protect and serve. That's why we have it on almost every police car in this country. And we all, I believe that you talked about the 99%, 99.9%. I believe that 99.9% of us get into law enforcement because we think we're going to help people or change society or do the right thing. And if we just take that moment to remember why we got into law enforcement, not that we're so jaded now because of everything we've seen and dealt with over the last five to 15 years that we're so sick of people and everything we've seen and the and even the people that we work with. Just take a step back and remember why did you why did you start up or find another career? There is life outside of law enforcement. That is the one thing that I found out. I was so afraid to leave. I was so angry and disgruntled when I got kicked out. But there is life after law enforcement.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:09

Yeah, absolutely. Um something that you said about, you know, I'm trying to think of how I want to word it. I'll come back to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:22

You're not gonna piss me off, so no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:26

It's not that. No, you and I align on a lot of this stuff. Um you know, in trying to get officers to to speak up and do I it really comes down to the culture of that department. If if you got a culture in the department that that fosters it, um, I you know, I I don't say where I work, but where I work, one of the things that we have is a half cent tax that's voted on by the citizens. And that half cent tax is like a thermometer for us. It's like, how well are we doing? Because if if they don't vote for us to have that, we're losing millions of dollars. Um, so generally speaking, that's usually in the 80 to 90 percent. People are voting for us to get this every four years. Well, I love and I came from another department, so I understand how shitty it can be and how crappy the equipment can be at another place. And then I go to where I'm at and I'm like, oh my god, we're spoiled. This is amazing. Like, we have all the best everything. Um, even our crappy stuff. I'm like, oh my god, like like Bany was saying, you know, a car with 200,000 miles on it, like we dump our cars at like 90,000, and there's other departments that'll buy that shit up quick because that's amazing. Um, I'm not gonna let you ruin that for me. I'm not gonna let you go out there and act a fool and be stupid. And a lot of this stuff could be squashed at the lower level if somebody just stepped up and said, Hey, don't do that bullshit. Like, like you said, have what's the ultimate goal? Let me let me let me go real deep with this. What's the ultimate goal? I don't want to arrest you. The ultimate goal is to get you to stop doing it. If I don't have to do anything, then law enforcement is is that's that's where it's at. I don't have uh my whole job is community relations because there's nobody committing crimes. That's great, right? If I treat you like shit, and then you're gonna remember that. You're gonna definitely remember me. Um, I might not remember you, and I think this is where law enforcement screws up is you get so used to, you know, you arrest people every day, it's no big deal to you. But to the person getting arrested, that doesn't happen every day. And even your career criminals, they still don't like that. However, if my goal is to get you to stay, you know, we we want people to not commit crimes. It's part of the reason they get arrested. That's the hope to change the behavior. Well, part of how you treat them once they're arrested could help change that behavior. It could mean the difference between the next time you do have to arrest that person, they cooperate. They don't get in a knockdown drag out. You don't have to use a higher use of force because they oh that's Officer Levine, he was cool with me last time. All right, man, I get it. Like, you treat me right. You took me for a burger before you took me to jail last time. I appreciate that. Who hasn't? I I know all of you guys have done that. Like, I know guys that I look at the thing, oh man, he's gonna go away for a few years on this one. Hey, bro, I'm gonna run you through Whataburger real quick. Tell me what you want. Oh, thanks. And I'm like, I'm doing this because you've been cool, and I appreciate that. Like, I knew you knew you were going back and you could have fought me and you didn't. So I appreciate that. You know, yeah, I got you know, my stale cigarettes that I would keep in the glove box because I don't smoke and I know bad guys do. So try to get them to smoke before they go in, too. Like, these are little things that we can do, and it that is what I want officers to focus on is just to your point, is like try to think of why you got into this. Well, I'm hoping I don't have to arrest anybody. I don't like doing work, I'm lazy. If I'm gonna be honest, I don't want to do all that paperwork. I like, you know, getting in the chase. I like going and doing all that fun stuff. I like talking to the community. That's really what I really love. I should have been a freaking uh politician, I guess. I like just like talking to people. Like that's fun for me. I think that's a cool part of the job. You get out there with the community and uh try to help them feel safe. But I like catching bad guys too. I like holding people accountable. I I really like catching thieves. That's one of my favorite things. I was a property crimes guy. Loved setting up buybus on stolen. I got to work undercover, uh, buying things, like you know, buying stolen goods and and getting people their stuff back or selling stolen goods. Um, that stuff was fun to me. But at the same time, you have to, just to your point, Lancey, even when I was arresting some of the shittiest people that are out there stealing people's hard-earned property, uh, I still treated them once I got them in cuffs, you know, whether a chase had to happen or not, had to tackle them, dust them off, make sure they're okay, and then handle business, do your job. Try to give them one last impression of the system from from that first point, you know, which is police, but we're the first part of the the face of the system. Um, try to give them that good, that good impression. And it might make a difference, it might not, but damn, treating them like shit is only gonna make it worse for everybody. It it's never going to it's never going to improve things.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:27

Not at all. And I used to tell guys all the time, you know, I'm I'm treating you like the next time you drive by me, if I'm getting my ass handed to me, if I'm getting my ass kicked, you're either gonna stop and start kicking it yourself, or maybe you'll help me out. Right. You know, in reality, that's kind of what it comes down to. And and I'm not saying in my 20 years that I treat everybody with respect, right? But but I did try to leave a better impression, you know, afterwards. And that's why, you know, my wife and I uh a year ago were going through a drive-thru, and this lady says, You remember me? I said, Yep, I remember you. Uh university, uh University Boulevard, blue Cadillac, crack cocaine underneath your driver's seat. And she was like, Wow. And she's like, that was the best thing that ever happened to me. And you, you know, you helped me out, you're so polite, and and she thanked me. And so, and and I think um Cottville mentioned that. Um, Mike Dilks mentioned that recently on one of his episodes. And I think that's probably the the one of the the greatest things that could happen to you, especially after you know, my years at I I, you know, again, failed accountability, failed leadership. So I know not everybody had that experience with Officer Fisher. And so when you do hear that you you actually change one person's perspective on life, it it's a good thing. But you're right, there's no reason, especially with body cameras, um, there's no reason to treat people like that because it's it's gonna come back and haunt you. And and again, like you just said, you're gonna in law enforcement. The one thing I learned, if you don't if if I don't catch you today, there's always gonna be tomorrow. So you're gonna see everybody again. And and the next time you see them, you're right. Are they just gonna fight next time or are they gonna come out willingly because they remember the last time that you talked to them? And if your partner mistreated them last time, you're probably gonna get a bad reaction this time. And that's why I said you got to hold each other accountable. You just had to say, hey, next time we do a traffic stop, if you please don't start with the F bomb, that would be greatly appreciated because the whole thing went south after that.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:21

Yeah, yeah. Annie, and you've been quiet, brother. What's your why don't you guess?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:24

I'm just taking it all in and and uh finally got the comments to load. So now I'm trying to help you go through some of these comments. I don't think we have anybody in the back office today doing that.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:33

So nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:35

Um well my comments, I'm sorry, my comments are way over to my right. So if anybody's commenting on me, I'm not ignoring you. My first live feed, and I can't see them.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:43

So that's so I can see them when they come in. Oh, can you? Oh, yeah, you can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:48

I just I just ignore them.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:50

So, like this one, I am uh C L I T commander. I don't want to say it out loud. Um, why do police retaliate so much against cop watchers recording their traffic stops? They aren't interfering with their traffic stops. Why target them if the police aren't trying to hide something? Ego. That's it. Ego, ego a hundred percent. They want to, you gotta understand. We are, and and all these two guys on the panel will tell you, it is beating our head through the academy that you have to control your scene. It's your scene, you have to control it. And that is a way that they look at control instead of looking at it as an ally. The culture has not caught up yet across the nation that the camera is your friend. Uh, I don't understand it. Um, and we I it's honestly it's probably the bread and butter of two cops one donut. It's one of the main videos that we show is people messing with auditors because cops, you just you earn the hate that you're getting by fucking with these guys because one, they're pros, they know what they're talking about, they know what they're doing. And two, it's 2026, y'all. You should know how to deal with the camera. You should say, hey, get me on the right. That's my good side. Like, have fun with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:05

And you have one on your chest. There's literally a camera sitting on your chest, especially if you don't mute it.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:11

If they're following policy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:12

If you follow policy, I mean you don't mute it and turn it off. So uh Freeman said, also, banning, you look amazing. How are you feeling?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:22

Feeling great, man. I'm still just about 72 pounds down on the water fasting total, but it's uh getting ready to start another long one. Gonna shoot for well, I'm not gonna say, but right around a month.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:33

Just uh yeah, brother.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:34

Water, water, salt, and folders coffee, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:37

Hell yeah. Um, so they're saying Southern Law, uh, Southern Draw Law is in the house, uh talking with us in the chat.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:44

I've been trying to get a hold of him.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:46

I don't see his name in the thing, but um if Southern, if you want to get on with us, I will I will send you a link, brother. You're more than welcome to get in here. I just there's so many comments I can't, I'm not seeing what's his name under on here. Is it Southern Law? I just don't see it. I didn't see it either. So I see Freeman. Freeman's all over it.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:08

So yeah. And I think Wade Lacero asked me a question earlier. I want to get back to you if you're still watching. Is uh the last place I worked was Jack County. He was asking what county I worked in.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:18

Oh, I gotcha. Uh Banning, lead this conversation for a second, sir. I'm gonna send uh just in case he wants to jump on, I'm gonna send him a link. I think uh if I can get him and Lance connected, that'd be a fucking fun thing too. And and Lance, how many how many people?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:34

I'm too small for him, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:35

No, not at all, sir.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:37

I did 25 years, uh four and a half and four and a half in Rocky Mount and just under 20 in in um Pombay, Florida. I took a year off after I got to Pombay. A buddy of mine said, Hey, let's let's go to Iraq together, do some private contracting. I said, Let's do it. Signed up. Um, I got uh signed up for Afghanistan. I said, Hey, uh, we're ready to go in two weeks. He said, I can't go. So my wife said, You can't stay, go make the money. So I went over there, but I came back right back to Pombay and just uh so about 25 years in law enforcement.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:07

So good deal. Good deal. Did you ever get to do canine while you're in, or did you do more of an executive track?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:12

And no, I was actually uh I was a street cop. I never did canine, but my whole background was pretty much um street crimes. I did that in Rocky Mount, and then I did it again in uh in Pombay, uh Pombay, Florida, until and even when I got promoted to sergeant and lieutenant, um, I was able to go. I always did patrol because that's the bread and butter. When we forget our patrol guys, that's where we screw up at in our top of you know, our leadership chain. When we forget that our patrol officers are our bread and butter, that's where we start failing. And so every promotion I've ever went, when I promoted sergeant, went back to the road for two years. Lieutenant, back to the road for two years. Because what we see now is these young kids, they never go back to patrol. They become a sergeant, they go right into a special unit, or they go upstairs, they get promoted to lieutenant, they never go back to the patrol, and they completely forget those those uh the patrol, the guys and girls, and and that's brutal. But um, yeah, then then after I did my patrol and my special operations, then I got into training, and then I was no longer a cop. Right. That's awesome, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:17

Um, Andy Fletcher said jurisdicts may have created QI, but it's government employees that benefit from it as it's a huge barrier to accountability. Um, and uh FYI, uh, I am talking to Southern Draw at Law. He is uh he's with family right now, he's in the hot tub. So uh he can't join with us, but um yeah, he's uh he's watching and he's enjoying the conversation. So uh he likes what you got to say so far. Um, but I'll leave it at that and then we'll we'll talk off air. But anyway, um I'm just trying to get over to some of the comments too. Uh looking at uh Arizona Bay, it's infuriating when cops aren't prosecuted. Half of the cops aren't qualified to deliver pizza, much less be a cop.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:09

That's funny. I can laugh at that.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:11

It is it is frustrating.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:13

I've worked with cops that uh couldn't even deliver pizza because you tell them to go to an address to take care of an issue. And even with GPS and all the technology, they're like, hey, sorry, try to get there. And I'm like, holy shit, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:23

Yeah, it it it is frustrating. I I do agree. I see, you know, we see these overt acts, and you're just the all you hear is the cop got fired. And I'm like, Well, like the taser girl. How the hell did you not get charged? How did you tase this dude seven times in a row? That's a five-second ride. So five, ten, fifteen. I can't do the math, but it's it's it's it's more than a minute. Uh I don't know. Um, but you you tased them that long. That's excessive force, like insanely excessive force. You got fired for excessive force, and they tried to charge you, and you dropped the charges. Not only did you drop the charges, you hired them. How do you explain that shit?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:05

You really can't, and I think what's more infuriating for officers and uh citizens is when they're allowed to resign. Yeah, you do you do something so grotesque, and then they're given an opportunity to resign and get the retirement, and then they go they go get another job, and so as you're a citizen, you're like, wait, and that's why I say, and this this was one of a comment that I had about two months ago. The only way you did the only thing you can do as a cop to get fired, spoke out about another cop, and it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:35

Yeah, yeah. HBO Matt's in the house. I don't know if you've seen any of HBO Matt's stuff. He does some great, great work, guys. Make sure you go check out HBO Matt. Um, he's out there doing the Lord's work. Uh, everybody, he's got he's gonna get the chat all worked up. HBO Matt. I'll get you two connected as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:54

Yeah, I just wrote his name down. Oh, which which I've been uh I've been I'm extremely fortunate. A lot of guys uh you know, I'll hit their comments and they've reached out to me, which I'm super grateful for.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:03

Dude, if I've had any guests that you ever want to get connected to, I always ask my guest if it's cool if I link them up with other guests and they love it. So if I had anybody on that you ever want to have, let me know. I'll get you guys linked up.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:16

I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:16

Yeah, I'm I'm always trying to help people get their their networking going. So um tasing uh Steve Wallace, tasing somebody for 35 minutes is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:26

I think you're just commenting on your math.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:28

Yeah, I know. I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:31

I did it for two seconds and I didn't like it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:34

Right. I've I've been tased at every department I've been, you know, I got tased because I'm a military cop. So I've been tased there, tased up in the agency I was in Michigan, and then tased at the agency of down here. And then I've been tased in the field twice that wasn't meant for me. Uh just got wrapped up in the leads. That's not pleasant either.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:50

Um I think I shared it with you, Eric. I when the taser first came out at our agency when I was at a larger agency in the Dallas Fort Worth metropolis area. Uh, we got them in the end of 2003, is when we got the X-26. We were one of the first agencies to get it. Of course, everybody took the the we call it riding the lightning for five seconds. And then the next year came and we did it. And I kept seeing the classes getting smaller, and I'm a dumb jar head. Um, didn't know when you were signing the roster, you were signing a voluntary to come in and do it. I did it for seven years in a row. I went in there. You have to resert every year, obviously. But uh yeah, the voluntary I did it seven years in a row of getting lit up. I think that's why I have a speech impediment in every now and then. It's a joke. But uh oh, holy shit, man, you just don't. But I wanted to talk on this before you before you switch the subject in reference to the accountability across the country and having that registry. Um I'm gonna give a couple compliments to T C Cole in Texas because they have gotten better. I was I've been with them since 2002 uh when they were called T Close, and then it raised up to uh then it changed to T Cole, Texas Commission on Law Enforcement. And then there was the Sunset Commission, and they came in and made some changes. It was all to benefit the citizens and make things better for officers as well, and accountability. But but before that change, and and Eric, I know you've you haven't been in many places, but when you change and your license changed, they had the ability, it's almost like the military, to where it's honorable other than honorable and dishonorable. And they had the ability, uh, as the agency had to check that off if if an officer left. And going back to what Lance said, uh, you know, giving somebody the option to resign. I hated that. I've seen that many, many times. You have a problem, child, they're gonna resign. And we've everybody in the comments even knows that they're gonna go get hired somewhere else. Well, finally, in my last agency that I worked at, being a part of that small group of letting people go, being on the list for for people to resign, etc. Um I, you know, I saw them check the dishonorable on on one of the troops that they probably needed it. Uh and then there's a hearing that occurs for that officer, the guy at the dishonorable. And if the agency that checked the hearing doesn't show up, it bumps back to honorable. It's kind of like a court hearing. So the agency that I was with ultimately decided to not go to these things. And I finally, I was a midnight supervisor guy, so I finally got a meeting with one of our top guys when he wasn't deployed with Mill Team 6 and sat down with him and found what is the reasoning that you guys are not going to these hearings? It's a it's a 20-minute drive. We got to stand behind our word if we're letting somebody go so he doesn't get hired on with somebody else. And the answering that I got was is banning as soon as you show up to that meeting, it opens your books to everything else from T Cole to the district attorney. I'm like, what do you mean opens your books? Well, now they can come in and look at the records. Well, aren't we supposed to be transparent? Aren't those records supposed to be FOIA available? Uh, shouldn't we have a portal on on all the employees that we have so people knows who's working for the agency that we are? And that was, you know, and then right along that time is when I started working with with Eric on this. I'm like, absolutely do I want to be a part of this? Because I've I've seen it in action in front of me. And even in the position that I was in, there was nothing I could do about it. Absolutely nothing legally that I could do about it except doing what I'm doing now, letting the world know what I've seen when I was in law enforcement. I've seen a lot of good, but the amount of bad has got to be known as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:30

Yeah, and I think um you talk about transparency. So all the conferences I've been in, all the lectures I've sat in, we talk about transparency. I've never one time heard any lecture that said, close your books, don't be transparent. But yet we do that in agencies. Like I a simple thing is turning your comments off because you can't handle simple criticism. And that, you know, that's disturbing, right? Because I thought you were gonna say liability. A lot of times agencies don't want to fire people, they'll give them that opportunity to resign because then if they can't they can't come back and sue them, right? It's such it's so much harder. But we have this the only thing that we do is we'll have rehirable or not rehirable, and so it is a shame that agencies just won't. It's always about to me, it's always about liability. That's what they're looking for. So it but again, you can't sue governments, so I don't know why they're so worried about liability because the courts are absolutely stacked against the citizens. So just do the right thing, be transparent, like you just said. If you're gonna check that box and say dishonorable, then follow up on it. If you're gonna if you're gonna file charges, then go sit down with your state attorney and say, Don't drop. If you drop these, I'm gonna blast you in the public. This is unacceptable because I don't want our officers being like this. I don't want to lose the public trust with my community. They're not gonna be mad at you, they're gonna be mad at me for for not following through with the charges. And so I do think we have to do a better job when it comes to accountability.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:56

Well, that's part of the problem with the court system is when the so police have discretion. We can file charges, we cannot file charges. Depends on what it is. Sometimes our hands are tied. If it's a felony, we've got to file charges.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:09

What is that?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:11

Yeah, when the losses shall. Now, here's my problem is you can get prosecutors that they just said, nah, we're not gonna file it. Where's the accountability and transparency on that? I would love for there to be an accountability and transparency website page that shows every charge that goes into or every case. It doesn't necessarily have to show every single charge, but you can go to your county court or whatever it is, look at the court and see what your prosecutor did. Okay, he's got this case, this, this, this, this, this, this. You go into that case and you're like, okay, we've got ag assault uh deadly weapon uh times three, we've got um theft, and we've got, I don't know, um illegal parking all in this one case. And he dropped every charge except for the illegal parking. And you're like, what the fuck? Why did you he had an ag assault deadly weapon? Why did he drop that? Well, there needs to be a justification in that. And that has to be you got to be held accountable for that. Like the public deserves to know when you got this case, why did you drop it? Because it might be the cops' fault. Well, they put together a shit case. Here's where it fell apart, and this is why we did it. Because the officer fucked up the evidence chain. Well, if you have this accountability and transparency page on the DA side, guess what? Police are gonna have to get better. They're not gonna be able to screw up the cases as much anymore because now they're seeing, like, oh shit, our cases are falling apart at our level. We don't want them falling apart at our level, or maybe they're falling apart because the DA's overworked. He's got too many cases. Or maybe he's just lazy. Like, D, but that's that's our burden to bear as government, you know, the face of the government. Like the public needs to know that stuff so they know how much support to give or take away from their police and and and their DA. But you're never gonna get the courts to to admit that they need more accountability. Shit, you barely got any courts that'll allow a uh video camera in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:11

Like no, they don't want they don't want anybody in there with a camera. I tried.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:15

Like I don't I very you will very rarely see me do anything that inv like I'll never do anything on a judge that's even close to my county. I'm just not gonna risk it. There's no way they have too much power. If you guys don't think a judge has power, holy shit. That is not that's like these sovereign citizens, like some of the shit I watch them do. I'm like, you are ballsy. Like you can mess with a cop all you want. Like, I get it. Like, that's what these sovereign citizens like to do. Uh, it it cracks me up. I love it, it's good entertainment, but a cop has to be patient. A judge does not. A judge it doesn't even technically have to give you a fucking warning. You're gonna start spewing the you know, the articles of Confederacy and all whatever other stuff that you're gonna try to say in court. And I think for a while the judges were entertained by it because they were like, let me see where this goes. Let me see, let me see what his legal theory argument's gonna be. And then now it just happens so much because social media, uh, as people believe in some of this stuff, and they're tired of it. They don't even want, they don't even want to be a part of it anymore because it's eating up their court time. Yeah and they hammered the dog shit out of these guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:26

And and you're right, Eric. They judges do have a lot of power. And I want you to just again, I talk a lot about Texas because I I know Texas a little bit better than most states. A county judge does not have to have a law degree. A law degree. Okay, it's a reasonable and prudent person voted in by the citizens of the county, and then they go to within the first year, they just must complete a 30-hour class to be a county judge that signs off on search warrants, uh, that signs off on arrest warrants that holds an entire DWI trial. Um, basically anything class B and below will be held at county level in the state of Texas. And that's, you know, you know, people are, oh, cops need to do that. And I agree, cops need more training. The cops need to be held accountable. However, let's look at the entire tier of the justice system. Why are county judges, and I understand that was probably written, you know, back in the early 1900s uh for Texas and reference county judges, but and I know a lot of good county judges in the state of Texas, and they go far beyond to learn more and more and more. But when are we gonna raise the threshold on that as well?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:33

Yeah, I just yelled at HBO Matt. He I just sent him a Texas. I said, Stop sending us money. Um, so Matt just dropped in the comments, said take away the DA's absolute immunity. Polk County DA was half the reason behind uh behind my organized crime charge. He wanted revenge on one of our groups. So yeah, I I this is part of the issue, is like, where's the checks and balances on that side of the house, on the court side? Because I've seen cops throw up some very good cases and they get dismissed or they get dumbed down. That's the worst. You know you've got a violent felon. You got somebody that is they're escalating. And you you, you know, hopefully the detectives are good at showing that when you can see a trend of a the, especially with domestic violence. You know, you can see where they first got their domestic violence charges early on in their life, and now they're you know, they're strangling and and and really hurting people, and you're just like, oh my god, the next time they're gonna kill this poor girl, or whoever the new girl is, and you're like, We've got to get this guy put away. And my dogs are fighting outside my studio. Um, so you see that, and then the DA, the next thing you know, they're like dumbing down the charges, and the person's cut loose, or they're they're getting a minimal like month. All that does is piss that person off, and they go take it out on you know, you you didn't give that person a chance to escape. So I don't know. What do you think, Lance?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:05

Yeah, well, I I talked about I was a street kind of uh street crimes cop and and burglars like you. I I despise burglars because I did not like people that preyed on other people. When you're going into somebody's house, right? And and this is why I have such an issue when cops go into other people's houses. That's what that is your most privacy that's their sex, that's your sanctity, right? And my house is burglarized, and so maybe I have a bias. And for until I moved out of that house, every time I turned the corner, I looked at my front door to make sure it was still there. So I despise burglars. And when when uh you you put these guys in jail, you think you have solid cases, you have three or four burglaries on them, and they plea them down to nothing and put them back on probation. And I'm like, so does this make them on super probation? Because they were already on probation, so now they're on super duper probation. And so it used to be so irritating. But on the other side of that, now that I see what I see now is I see when you have cops that violate people's rights and they stack the charges now. Yeah, they hit them with the battery of LEO, they hit them with you know everything they can, they'll resisting times 27, you know, and they'll write them 16 citations. And then what I find out is then these same prosecutors that won't prosecute a criminal will now hold these citizens and say, Oh, you're looking at you know 250 years in jail, but if you plead to this littering charge, you know, right. And I have it. I have one where they hit him with resisting and he they let him plea to a driving charge, and the guy was in the backseat of the vehicle. And and I think they do that once again to take away the liability. So we know that this is a BS charge. We know the officer flat out lied on his reports, but in order to try to protect our system and our police departments, we'll let you plea to some blittering charge and um and just let it go away. And just to um uh HBO Matt's comment, Polk County, that's its own country. If you're not familiar with Florida, that's Grady Judd. Um, he's uh the most popular sheriff in Florida and he does his own thing. Um so if you're even trying to audit, that's not a county you want to go to. He uh he will absolutely um him and his uh his legal system will absolutely charge you and they will find you guilty no matter what. So when I saw Polk County, I was like, yeah, that's a place that I don't even I wouldn't even want to go to as a as a law-abiding citizen.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:35

Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a mistake.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:40

I have an auditor that's been arrested there twice, and I was like, stop going to Polk County, they don't wear body cameras. Uh, even if you got four on, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:49

Yeah, yeah. Banning's got to go to the potty. So cut him out while he goes to the bathroom real quick. Um, yeah, that's uh that's insane. Fucking dealing with Polk County and some of the like he doesn't let his guys have body cameras.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:04

No, and I mean and I and I and I, you know, and and he's a legend. When you're when you're in law enforcement, that's the one guy in Florida you're like, oh, he's you know, like, can I get an autograph? And but then when you get on the other side and you want and you and you see some of the other things from the other side of the table, you're like, man, I don't know why you why you would allow your officers out there without body cameras. I just don't know why you would allow it. It's it just scrutinizes your officers, and then you have no idea how your officers are acting out there on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:35

Yeah. Country girl, I I saw you wrote sovereign question mark, question mark. Um, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. Um, I use the term sovereign citizen loosely to generalize um a bunch of people that basically try to skate around the laws um because they think that they're detached from the nation. Um they they claim that they're no longer citizens, but yet they still try to use the Constitution um when it suits them. It's it's very odd. Very odd. There's uh a bunch of crazy legal theories that they try, um, like traveling. That's the most common tactic used. They'll be traveling in a in a vehicle on a public roadway. And then when an officer asks for their license and insurance uh and proof of registration and all that stuff, they say that they don't have to show it because they're just traveling to and from commerce, and then they try to show you all these papers and and and do all that. So they they're just referred to as sovereign citizens. Uh it's kind of an oxymoron, if you ask me. Um, but they they don't think that the laws apply to them, but then they'll try to use laws to show you why you're wrong. So it's it's it's it's its own little thing. It's it's very entertaining. I love to highlight them because, like I said, most of the time their stuff is just crazy nonsense. Sense that just doesn't work in court. Um, and they try to make money off of it, too. That's the big thing. They'll they'll film themselves getting stopped by the cop and them telling them all this stuff, and then they'll show their court settlement that they that they got it dismissed. Excuse me. So what they're failing to tell you is that their case got dismissed because it was either no PC'd on the stop. It has nothing to do with their argument about them traveling or any of that shit. Um it'll either get no PC'd or the cop didn't show up for court and then it'll get dismissed for that. So then they say they won in court with their argument, and it's not true. And they try to then that's where they try to make the money. They'll say, okay, just hit us up in our our message system and we'll we'll sell you the the how-to for you know 50 bucks, whatever it is. And so it's just a scam. It's just a way for people to try to make money. Um, don't fall for it. It's all BS. Um and then when people like here's one right away, cops are the sovereign citizen. No, that's not what a sovereign citizen is. The sovereign citizen thinks he's separate from the nation and and its laws and rules. Cops are still held accountable to the laws and rules and and lay themselves to the mercy of those laws and rules. So whether or not they're held accountable, that's up to the system. But they're still putting themselves before the system and claiming that they're a part of it. Where sovereign citizens don't think that they're a part of the system at all. So, Lance, you got anything to add on all that bullshit?

SPEAKER_01 1:51:35

No, they do they do make great videos though. And I'll and I'll be honest, if you're if you're a cop that that aren't on your toes, they can they can scare the crap out of you because they know what they're talking about, right? Yeah, look at Johnson's. Their theories, they know exactly what they're talking about, they're well rehearsed. Their driver's license has, I forget what the saying has on it. Yeah. So it's you know, that's the thing about you know, our officers is they gotta constantly be keeping up with laws, the constitution, every single time a case law comes out. And when you talk about accountability, all we do is we just sign, we get our law update. There was my mic. Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:16

We lost them completely. I see you, I just can't hear you.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:22

That's because I hit the mic. There you go. You're good. I was just saying that uh I knew something was gonna happen, but you know, that's where we talk about training and stuff, but even for legal updates, we just sign a piece of paper that says we read it and we didn't. We we opened it up and we closed it.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:39

Yep. So uh Lance, I've been I've been asking this one a lot, especially when I get law enforcement on here. We swore an oath to the constitution, right? Okay, you and I and Banning, we all swore an oath to the constitution twice between the military and uh policing. Now, how much in your law enforcement career did you have constitution training after the academy?

SPEAKER_01 1:53:07

You don't, you may and even the oath, right? That and I'm just being honest, is it when I when I sat down with um James Massonodits about a year ago, he never posted the uh the interview because I was so boring. Um, but uh that's a shout out to him because I told him today, are you ever gonna post that thing? But he asked me constitutional questions and I couldn't answer them. I was like, because the only time you ever you ever listen to the or do the constitution or even the oath is if when you get sworn in and when you get promoted, that is it. And you and we don't ever do constitutional training again, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:43

Exactly, and that's that's kind of one of the problems in law enforcement. You swore an oath to something you don't even fucking understand. You don't understand it, you know. You know, we talk about you know, one of my favorite things to I'll have these discussions with other officers, and like, well, I don't, you know, I don't understand why you're so hard on cops sometimes, and you don't and I'm like, all right, cool. Real quick, what's the first five elements of the uh First Amendment? I don't need you to tell me the whole thing verbatim, just give me the five elements. And they're like, Well, it it's you know, and they'll get a couple of them, not all of them, but they'll get a couple of them. See, this is my problem. You swore an oath to that thing. Now, can I sit there and nail it, you know, all of it verbatim? No, I can't. I can tell you the element, shit, even the third, which is my favorite one, because it's so unlikely. But quartering soldiers, you know what I mean? Like, just knowing the little things about that, you know, you definitely need to know the fourth, you definitely need to know the fifth. Like, those are big ones. First amendment, you should definitely know. Uh, I'm a huge proponent of the second amendment, which is why all my shirts have guns on them. Uh like I got a Barrett sniper rifle on this guy. So, um, and you know, I just put a video out. Uh, you got a guy in Florida that likes to do um armed fishing. He goes fishing with a with a gun, and they cops screw that shit up all the time. And what pissed me off in this particular video is the cop was trying to like you tell me if you I I I go all over the place. I'm sorry, Lance. You tell me if you did this as a cop. You you too, Manny. When you were going to a call and you saw the details and you knew you had some time, like if I knew I'm going to a guy that's open carrying, I'm still going to pull up the law. I'm still gonna pull up the state statutes or whatever it is, city orderances on open carry. So when I get there, I'm I'm not an idiot. I kind of, you know, I can't expect to remember that shit verbatim, but I'm gonna look and be like, all right, well, as long as it's a a rifle uh or shotgun and it's not being pointed at people or being used in a manner which would cause alarm. Okay, yep, all right. All that looks like that's good there. So I got that in my memory. And then when I get there, I look at the dude and be like, all right, he's not pointing at anybody. He's got it slung. Uh oh, he's fishing. Okay, cool. I'm looking at this. I don't have a violation right now. The call details said there's a guy with a fishing pole and a gun. All right, I don't have a law being broke, I don't need to make contact with this guy. Put in my details. I observed the man, he wasn't doing any of this, that, or the other, and I never make contact. I don't think cops are even looking shit up before they get out there anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:26

No, just by the videos I'm seeing. We'll just we'll just wing it, see what happens. What's the what's the worst that happens? I'm making a I make an arrest and the case gets dropped. That's the worst thing will ever happen. Right. I'm not going to jail. I'm not going to get sued. If I do get sued, my city's going to pay for it. I'm not going to get my department's not going to hold me accountable. And that's what I say. What's the worst that's going to happen? I arrest him and he'll plead an un un uh unlicensed fishing. Right. Or, but when you get on scene and the guy knows more than you do, that's the time to take a step back and be like, hmm. Yeah. Let me know what happens. Ego. I'm just going to uh be in my car and do something real quick. And then you start looking it up because you're probably right. He's either a complete fool and he's talking gibberish, or he knows what the hell he's talking about. Yeah. And we saw it time and time again. We still see it today.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:16

Yeah, my favorite thing with him is he brings the laws with him. I think he's called the armed fisherman. Oh, somebody just put in the chat. The armed fisherman.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:22

Yes, the armed fisherman. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't, you know, now we have open carry in Florida anyway, because we are the free state of Florida. But that was a common thing, even in our area. And I'm like, if you if you as an officer don't know by now that the big tactic for some of our auditors is going fishing with an AR slung, again, then you're not you're not being properly trained. Because as soon as we started seeing this, our department should have sent out memos and called everybody in and say, if you see somebody open carrying while they're fishing, it's absolutely legal. Avoid them or just go, hey, how are you doing? Thank you for being out here and protecting ourselves. Welcome to the Second Amendment.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:04

Yeah. I like the lunatic lunatic library or libertarians that uh couldn't pass ASFAB, but could be a cop.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:12

Correct. Thank you. Eight crayons for a living.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:15

Right? You didn't need to have a high ASF to be a cop where uh uh for the Air Force either. I think you needed like a 35. Um, somebody had another comment here. I missed it. Where'd it go? Um, I've seen those videos saw where a cop mentioned causing alarm. Claimed no, that's not what I was looking for. Um oh, Jordan said the military will, it's called gitmo and treason. Um I a lot of people try to claim treason. It's not treason. You guys need to understand what the definition of treason is. Uh it might be a rights violation, it may be a lot of things, but treason it is not. I'm sorry. Uh, it does not fit that definition. Um, and I am all about accountability, guys. Just words matter. And the way that you frame things matter. I don't like people being over-dramatic just for the sake of being dramatic. So it's not treason. Um all right, let me see. What else we got here? Oh, I had another

Internal Affairs And The Culture Problem

SPEAKER_00 1:59:13

question for you. Oh, uh internal affairs. That's what I wanted to get your opinion on. Oh boy. Yeah, can internal affairs actually police itself? What is your opinion on that?

SPEAKER_01 1:59:23

Well, the question is, or the answer is no. So I'll just talk about Pombay because that's what I know. Our internal affairs guy was always the most loyal person to the chief of police. He was at the police beck and call. He was the guy that he could single-handedly trust. If the chief told him to do something or make it happen, it was expected that he made it happen. So, one of the complaints I talk about that I file, um, I actually listed the sergeant in the complaint because he signed a piece of paper saying that that lady was not choker struck while in handcuffs. And I when I handed him the piece of paper, I said, I don't know how you can investigate this. I'm filing a complaint on you too, Sean. Him and I, we've been fishing together, we've been shrimping together, all kinds of stuff. And it wasn't about his integrity. And he was like, You're questioning my integrity. I said, No, I'm not. I'm questioning the position that you've been put in. Because the day before he was the IA sergeant, he was the FOP vice president. His entire job in life was to protect the officers. And then the very next day you're telling me that your job is now to hold those very officers accountable. I said, That's impossible. I believe that Chief Ajello put you in a bad spot. It's not your integrity, I'm questioning. It's the fact that you're in that position. So, no, an agency will not and cannot investigate itself. And even when we had an officer that was accused of inappropriate relationship with a minor, crawling through a window on duty and having a relationship with a 13-year-old, one of the commanders wanted us to investigate that. And I said, absolutely not. Only two things are going to happen. We're either going to arrest our own cop and look like idiots, or we're not going to arrest him and look like a cover-up that has to absolutely be investigated by FDLE. And that's what happened. And ultimately he was arrested, and he gets five-month probation. So you talk about lack of accountability. You have an officer on duty crawling through a window, having a relationship with a 13-year-old, and he ends up with five months of probation. What? Yeah, you can look it up.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:21

Oh my god. Yeah, it's disgusting. And we just our last episode, we had an ICAC and uh Kaku. For those that don't know, internet crimes against children or crimes against children unit. Um, we had a detective on from Prosper uh talking about that particular stuff. Like you want to talk about so I I told you I always try to treat the people that I arrest, you know. It's the one that you will see anytime that I'm even around them on body cam. I just don't talk. I just don't talk because I'm not gonna say anything that's gonna help my career.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:58

The most the most heinous of crimes and the most vulnerable of victims. And that's why when you when you pick those when you pick those detectives or those sergeants and those supervisors in charge of that unit, they have to be the best.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:12

They got to be passionate about it.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:13

Yeah, and in our very agency, um, we had a detective that was a was a corporal in that unit. She was Secret Service trained, she um she got officer of the year that unit, she got promoted from that unit, and she goes to patrol. That sergeant position opens up, she puts in for it, and they pick a SWAT guy that's never been an investigator in his entire career over her. Two days later, um, a parent files charges because he believes his daughter is being groomed by a teacher, and that crime is never even investigated. 17 lines and closed out, and that sergeant that had zero experience signed off on that a year later, and I did a story on it because I saw this this father protesting at the local school that says, How is a teacher grooming my 15-year-old child allowed to resign and never even and never even investigated? And when I looked it up, I had written the city attorney and the city manager a letter two days before that incident telling them that by placing this sergeant with no training and trying in charge of this unit, it is going to have catastrophic effects. Because I said the most heinous of crimes and the most vulnerable of victims. And that sergeant signed off on that, no investigation, and that family for a year suffered where that child tried to take her life because there was no accountability. Jeez, yeah. So so kudos out, kudos to the the ICAC detective because they if you talk about a thankless job and and the stuff that you have to see, that's the most brutal of them all.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:50

Yeah, yeah. His name's Seth. The everybody in the our community, anyway, really liked him. Um, he was great. And it's like it's one of those things that we we actually talked about. Like, I I know myself, like that is not a position I could ever do. Never I don't want that. Um, if you're ever looking for him on social media, he goes by uh the Texas Detective um on TikTok. Uh I think that's his major platform. I can get you in contact with him, by the way. Um great, great conversations with him. But yeah, um we we talked about like the mentality it takes, um, the ability to comportmentalize, and you know, he's a father himself. He's got kiddos. So I am grateful. It's just like SWAT guys. Like, I I know that's not me. I can't do that, but I am so glad there are guys that are about that life. I need guys that are. I need guys that are passionate about property crimes. I was a passionate dude about property crimes. Is it the worst crime in the world? Not necessarily, depending on the scope that you're looking through. But I'm in Texas. I have got a a ton of immigrants in this state that are trying to live the American dream. And this is the easy one to go to because it happened the most. But you got guys that have built up a uh their own business, they've got a trailer full of um steel, uh, which is my favorite brand, um, lawn equipment, and some asshole goes and steals their entire trailer while they're working on a yard, and that is their livelihood. And I just I it that crushes me because I'm like, that is the that's the American dream. They came here, they they built up the money to get this badass equipment, they're out there crushing it every single day in the Texas heat, and some asshole came over and stole all of their what they used to make their living. And I would make it a personal mission to find that stuff and get it back, and it was so satisfying. I loved it, but I try to tell that to another cop, and he's like, Sounds kind of boring, bro.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:00

I'm like, it's not boring, dude. But you know what what's interesting is you said not that big of a crime, but it is to that individual, to that vic to that victim. It's the worst thing, worst thing that's ever happened to them. But it's a cop, we get on scene, right? That initial the initial officer took that report, was like, oh, another another burglary, just taking it, not not, don't care, not maybe writing down half of the information, won't even put a phone number down. So, Eric, you got to go to the yellow pages to try to find this guy's contact information, won't put an email address in there because I just don't care. But to this person that's standing in front of them, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to them.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:39

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, I just I I don't know why. I just for me and it and it's everybody's passion. Like, what was your what was your favorite thing when you were in patrol? Like, what was or not necessarily patrol, but just in police work in general. What was your favorite thing to do?

SPEAKER_01 2:06:54

It was catching burglars. Looking, yeah, looking at intelligent-led policing and looking at um MO's, how they were doing businesses, looking at okay, we all of a sudden we have a string of slidered uh shattered sliders. Well, we didn't have these before, so this has to be the same thing, and then just trying to track them down, going on the hunt. And that for me, um finding burglars are just preying on our citizens, victims. Yep. That I mean, you know, it's not like you know, a lot of like your your narcotics crime, those are people that know each other, they're dealing in illegal businesses and things happen. But these are citizens that went off to work while somebody sat outside their house, watched them drive away, ring their doorbell, no answer, go around the back, kicking their door, and and when they come home, everything they own is gone. And I love tracking those guys down and I love putting them in prison.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:46

Yeah, me too. I absolutely um I'll get I I could go into some of the tips and tricks of how I would catch a lot of burglars, but I I don't want people to use my playbook. Uh but this is

Gun Safety With Armed Citizens

SPEAKER_00 2:07:58

a good question. This came in from uh one of your people, uh I am commander. Uh he said, uh, what's your thoughts on the lack of gun safety in law enforcement? So many videos of cops disarming law-abiding citizens and flagging them and their partners while loading and unloading firearms. So a great one that I covered out of your state of Florida, um, I'll say this right away. You should not be disarming citizens to check their weapons, period. Um, simply for the sake that they have a weapon. Now, if you got a guy that's got a history of, you know, some sort of violent crime or whatever, and they're armed, okay, I understand that. That makes sense to me. But in general, if you pull the guy over, in this instance, he had ran a stop sign in Florida, um, or they said he ran a stop sign or rolled past a stoplight, something to that effect. The guy tells you he's armed, guy tells you he has a CCW, and you still proceed to say, well, okay, is it cool if my partner goes over there and checks your gun out and all that stuff? Why? Why are we doing that? We shouldn't be doing that. That is a direct violation of the Second Amendment to me. Like you are putting this person at a disadvantage because I'm not saying this is likely, but what if a gunfight breaks out across the street or somebody ambushes them cops because they're cops, and you just disarmed him? He had a chance to fight back for his own life. That's why he's allowed to be armed. And you just took it from him so you can go on a fishing expedition to see if the gun's legit, to see if all this shit is legit. So you want to know my personal belief on it? We should not be unarming anybody ever, because one, cops are not firearms experts, most of them. Uh, I would say this is my made-up stat because I don't have anything to go on, but I would say 95% of cops are not firearms experts. They like to buy guns, it doesn't mean they know guns. Uh, so you shouldn't be taking guns for people. Not if you don't have a legit reason. If you're going on a fishing expedition, no, I'm a I'm totally against it. Uh, but that's that's my stance. Banning, what do you got, buddy?

SPEAKER_03 2:09:57

I I mirror that exactly. I've only had to, you know, in almost 22 years. Uh only a couple people that I've had to disarm. And I and I think that goes to how the officer also acts on scene. You know what I'm saying? On how people are gonna act. I mean, that's a huge thing is officer presence. And that's what I always tried to tell people, uh, training. And and and people were, you know, right there, honest with me. You know, I've got a gun on the glove box, great. I'm I got a gun in the center castle. Awesome.

unknown 2:10:28

Cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:29

I got one on my hip. You know, it's like uh, and and as long as you don't go for yours, I won't go for mine, and this interaction will be done and quick so I get you back on your way.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:36

Yeah. Um and and oh, and and spoiler alert, um the the officer that tried to take the gun and disarm that guy shot him in the leg. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You remember we showed that one on here. We're just looking at each other, like, why the fuck are we taking this gun? Why are we taking this gun? This guy, people that have a CCW and are completely cooperative, like that's your most unlikely person that's going to. I mean, that's been my experience. What do you got, Lance?

SPEAKER_01 2:11:04

Yeah, and if you if you're that worried about in that particular situation, guns in the glove box, hey, do you mind your safety of mine? Just step out of the vehicle for me. You can treat it in so many different ways. The last thing I want to do is one, seize your property because just like you said, what if it goes off? What if I drop it? What if I, you know, there's a million things that can happen. Right. And two, there's no reason to disarm you. You've been you've been absolutely cooperative. And are you so deathly afraid of of somebody that has power over you? Is that what this is all about? Because the laws are changing. We have open carry in Florida now. You better get used to it. If you don't want to deal with people that are that are armed, then get out of law enforcement. Yeah. All you can do is is is is is control you. You put yourself in safe situations. It like I said, if you don't feel comfortable, have them step away from the gun. If it's on them and you don't feel comfortable, have a nice day. There's nothing that says that you have to put yourself in harm's way over a stop. Sign violation. If you are that upset that the person is armed, have a nice day. If you're you can send them a citation if that's what it comes down to. But to disarm our citizens, we have the second amendment for a reason. But this again is either egos are kicking in or fear. And both of those are bad on a simple traffic stop.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:20

And training culture. Yeah. All it takes is an FTO that showed a rookie officer, and the rookie officer's like, oh, this is what we do. He doesn't question it, he doesn't think about it, he doesn't get outside of his fishbowl and realize the bigger impact of what he's doing. What he's really doing is he's stepping on somebody's Second Amendment. He's looking at it as like, well, the FTO, this is what we do. You get somebody that has a gun, you check their CCW, you take their gun, you check the serial number, you do all these things. And I'm like, but you did you take the time as the FTO to realize why you're doing it? Were you taught that? And now it becomes in culturally ingrained. And it seems to be a big thing in Florida. I see it a lot in Florida videos. I don't know why that is. I always thought Florida was pretty on par with Texas when it comes to gun ownership, but Florida seems to have a disarming thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:09

It's interesting because we're the free state of Florida, right? What would be awesome is if if the driver had been like, Yeah, I'll let you, I'll let you uh take my gun. You mind if I have yours? You know, no, of course not. Well, officer, why won't you why won't you let me check your gun? I would love to run your serial number and and see if you're right, right? No, and then what happens if the driver says no? Now the officer's ego can possibly well, why not? If you have nothing to hide, why wouldn't you give me your gun if you don't? And and we just go down this road by I'm gonna get a dog right exactly. We just go right down this road when you simply could have just moved on with your life, um, but you make it more difficult. Earning the hate, you said earlier, you're earning the hate.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:48

Yeah, I I've actually you again, I understand that when you're a content creator, it's hard to see other people's content because you're busy doing your own shit. Um, but we actually, because of the videos that we've done on this show over the last five years, um, a fellow instructor from my department he created an ego class because of that's what he kept. He's like, Okay, I see a gap. He's like, obviously, ego is a problem. Your videos that you keep showing show that ego is usually the trigger and and why this officer's getting in trouble. He's like, I'm gonna study that, I'm gonna figure out why that is, I'm gonna find the the scientific parts behind it, not just say it because this video showed it, but there's got to be psychological reasons behind it. So, where is it happening happening? And so he created an actual ego class and we teach that to our recruits so they can recognize within themselves when they switch from you know their their frontal lobe and their logical and reasoning part of their brain to their emotional side. And it's usually when unmet expectations are uh happen. So I tell the person, hey, I need you to step out of the car. I'm not stepping out of the car. Well, 99.9% of the time I made that stat up. Um, people cooperate with police, they do exactly what we tell them to do. So then that 1.1% don't, all of a sudden that unmet expectation hits, and that can be our moment of recognizing, okay, shit, I wasn't expecting them to say no. Let me figure out why or whatever it is, or is the ego part gonna take over? We're gonna switch to that emotional trigger. Well, nobody tells me no. I got the badge, I've got the gun. Like, get the fuck out of the car. Now we're in a pissing match and a use of force happens because we let our ego take over. Um you know, and then you're gonna get cops that say, Well, they should have listened. You were you're in the right. It's not that simple. Like, you gotta have some communication skills, and not everybody's wired the same, and you don't know everybody's background and experiences. Maybe the last time this guy got taken out of the car, he got his ass beat for cooperating. You don't know. Is it possible? Yeah, because we've seen it.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:58

So if it's possible, then you need to relax and have patience in this job and not have an ego. And if you're gonna have patience and no ego, the job becomes very simple. Just treat it like personal entertainment. That's what I've done. To me, I'm like, this is the greatest show on earth. I love it. That's why I like being a cop. It's great, it's so fun. You get to see all the craziest shit on earth.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:21

You really do, and no two days are the same. But you know, one of the one of the weirdest comments I I I continue to see, and and I actually probably said it a million times when I was when I was wearing the badge, is well, if you would just comply, this wouldn't happen. But you're under no legal obligation to comply a lot of the times. You're under no legal obligation to have the car. So why does the officer have to force you out if you know, well, I'm sorry, you are legally obligated to you have a car, but maybe you're not legally obligated to to hand over your ID. So you you don't have to comply. There's nothing there's no law that says that you have to give an ID over in every circumstance. So this this this theory about, well, if you just comply, this wouldn't have happened. That's not true because I have a video where a lady complied for 20 minutes, and when they're going to tow her vehicle, she's asked for a supervisor and she's on the phone with 911, and that officer commences to breaking her window anyway, and she leaves the scene. Doesn't flee, doesn't try to run him over, just leaves the scene and goes home. He chases her home, kicks in her door, and and all hell breaks loose. So whether whether she'd complied on scene or didn't, she was about to get her ass handed to her one way or the other. It was gonna happen, no doubt in my mind. And so, this this thing about, oh, if you would just comply, that's not always true, right? But here, but here's what I try to say citizens don't go through training for high-risk situations, they don't understand this high stress. We as officers are trained that from the day we go into the academy about high stress situations. It's our job to control the scene, we're taught that. But yet when things go south, we are the ones that escalate. We escalate it and then expect the citizen to de-escalate, and that's not how it works. And then you're right, then the use of force comes into play. Using force we need to use, we lost control of the scene that we are trying to control. It is so fast backwards sometimes, and our officers just don't realize that they're their own problems.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:17

Yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. Every again, it goes to the ego side. I would say 85% of the things that I see when a cop is in the wrong, it's ego. Ego it makes everything fucking just way worse. So um, listen, brother, we are we're approaching two and a half hours. I usually try

Final Takeaways And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_00 2:18:40

to keep it around two and a half to three, but um, I want to make sure I I have pretty much hit everything for your side of the house that I wanted to ask you, but I know you've got your own message that you're trying to get out there and things that you want to get out. Is there anything that we haven't touched on yet that you're like, we need to talk about this?

SPEAKER_01 2:19:00

No, I appreciate the I think it is it was you know, it's funny when I when I talk to do my podcast and stuff, where I get these opportunities to speak. It seems like I'm usually on the same page with the person I'm talking to. But then when I go into I see the comments and the fake profiles, and and and cops just hate the hate when we speak out, even when we tell the truth, they just hate it. And instead of just stopping and listening for one second saying, you know what, you're right. And I get it because I didn't do it either. When I was a cop, I was the same way. I didn't like cops that spoke out. I didn't speak out. I believed in the thin blue lie, I believed in the brotherhood, and I believed in all that family bullshit that we talk about. And so, no, I think my message is clear. I will continue to fight failed accountability and failed leadership because it absolutely starts at the top. We as chiefs and deputy chiefs and command staff, we set the tone. If we won't hold our people accountable, then nobody will. If we can't, if we can't gain the public's trust, then nobody will. But we set the tone. When I have a chief of police on body camera, true story, berating and screaming and hollering at the officers of the of the neighboring agency, and it's in a police report that he impeded, interfered in an investigation, and that he threatened officers in uniform two times as a chief of police, and nothing happens to him. How can he hold anybody at my agency accountable? He can't do it, and he shouldn't be a chief of police. He should have been charged when you impede in an investigation under the color of the law, that's a crime. And when you don't hold your chief accountable, you can't hold anybody accountable. And so that's been my message: failed accountability, failed leadership, and that's where I'm gonna stay.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:44

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:45

I love it. And if you don't like it, stop watching me or do something about it. Take it, take it, go to your city council and you tell those idiots at the dais, hold your city manager accountable so we don't have to hold you guys accountable and let you and elect you off the dais. And if citizens are pissed off, they need to start doing something about it. You got to file your complaints. You can't call up the phone on the phone and say, I don't want to get this officer in trouble, but you know, he handcuffed me and illegally arrested me, you have to file formal complaints because you have to start a paper trail. And I'm not asking 300,000 people to go down to every police department tomorrow and file the complaints. But if you believe that you something legitimately was wrong with your encounter with an officer, you're probably not the only one. When I talk about this officer brutalized three different departments, after I started playing his video, citizen after citizen came out. I think he stopped me too. And I would look it up and he absolutely did. And he treated, I have not seen one video of him where he treated any citizen with respect. And had if two citizens have filed formal complaints against him instead of just Lance Fisher, maybe somebody had done something. So we as citizens also have to hold our police departments accountable. I'm not saying every time that they make you mad because they stopped you on a traffic stop and wrote you a ticket. That's not what I'm talking about. If you believe that there is injustice, if they violated their oath or violated your civil rights, then you have to hold them accountable.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:12

Agreed. Agreed. Uh, people are giving you shit about your headphones, by the way. They're saying they're thin blue line headphones.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:19

Hey, they cost me $12. I told you guys today. Uh I don't know what I'm doing. Um, yeah, maybe I'll get some different ones.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:26

Um, I want people to be able to find your channel, so I pulled it up.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:30

I literally thought I hit a button and I was gone. No, just me, brother. You're good.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:34

You're good. Um, so this is the Thin Blue Lie audits page on YouTube. Make sure you guys go um and subscribe. You can see it right. Well, I guess you can't see my mouse. There you go. Um, I am subscribed and uh go there. Appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:50

Yeah, anytime that would have been embarrassing for you.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:53

Yeah. Um, and again, make sure you guys go over to I'm gonna share this tab instead. I've also got Copville's channel where you can see the that Lance did with Mike.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:12

Unfortunately, I got a little nervous tonight because Copville was in the building.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:16

So so we got that.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:19

Um his intro is so awesome. I'm so jealous.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:22

Yeah, I know. I know he's got people though. We don't have people, we need to get people. Lance, you and I we should get people together.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:30

Uh my wife does all my PR work, so she uh she shares all my stuff, and and that's it. And then my son does some of my shorts, and that's what I got. Those are my people, which you know, we we didn't really talk about this, and it's too long of a subject to talk about now. But that's what we forget in law enforcement is our family. Yeah, we we absolutely they they deal with everything we deal with. And you know, that's that's for a different day, but just a shout out to law enforcement families because they deal with our deal with our crap, good or bad.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:01

Yeah, and my wife, you know, typical cop, my wife's a nurse, so stereotype. I know, right? Uh hey, I will say I am uh I'm an oddity. I have been me and my wife have been together since about seventh grade. So 31 years for me. Yeah, nice. Hell yeah. See, so you get it. Um, but yeah, well, I appreciate you, brother. This has been fun. I knew I knew we were gonna have a good time with you. I just didn't know if you knew exactly how we are on the show, because a lot of people see the reels and the shorts and they think they have an idea. Because I'll post the pro cop one and they're like, oh, this guy's just a cop echo chamber, and then they'll see me post the not so pro-cop one, and they're like, oh, he's just against cops. So you never know how people see what you do if they see these deeper conversations, because it's really this is in maybe this will be a formula for you. Um, a matter of fact, guys, I want you to see one of his shorts. I I forgot I pulled this up because this one is hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:59

How long ago was it? Because some my shorts are it's fairly new, so outdated.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:03

It's fairly new. This is a good one, though.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:05

Oh, yeah. Uh this is the guy I'm talking about. He's my MVP. I promise you, by the time I'm done with you, we're not gonna have any goddamn trees left in the city.

SPEAKER_02 2:25:15

Oh lee, man, there's no reason to be so nasty.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:20

This actually was not the video I had pulled up.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:23

I like it though. Appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:24

Uh yeah, I'm glad we we showed that quick little thing there. Hold on a second. I I've I've got it. It is okay. Now I've got it. All right, we're going to share this tab instead. Now my minor shows.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:36

That's my vision. Why does it keep doing this?

SPEAKER_02 2:25:41

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:44

It's not playing the one I'm clicking.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:47

I'll fight you right now. I don't want to fight, bro. I'll go with you right now. I don't want to fight, bro. I don't want to fight. I don't want to fight. Yeah, tell them, tell him, come on. It's gonna be bad, bro. It's gonna be bad, but it's funny how you remember your de-escalation training when you're about to get your ass kicked by the UFC fighter. We didn't had been some old lady or some old man, or you know, they would have thrown him to the ground and tossed him like nothing, but that's the nicest cop I've ever seen. Now, what I want to do is I want to go pull some of his other body camera and see how he treats the other citizens. And I hope it's just like that. I do say, but I thought that was funny.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:30

It was bro, just the fact that he knew who he was saved his bacon.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:35

You ain't can because that would have been better body camera footage to get.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:39

Um, shout out to Pebble from Ellen Snorr. Ellen Ellis Norn, however you say that. Um, she dropped five bucks in your uh YouTube channel. She said, Thanks y'all for the video and everything you do, um, and sent that to your channel. So um, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:56

I don't even know how that works.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:57

So thank you. Country Girl said, Eric, what the fuck are we? Oh, sorry, I'm boring.

SPEAKER_03 2:27:08

I know. No, not at all. No.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:09

Oh, the body cam stuff?

SPEAKER_03 2:27:10

Yeah, body cam.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:11

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sorry. Sorry, guys. Like, look, it was a great interview. Uh so we went long. Normally, I I'll do like two or three videos of body cam review, and then we'll watch. They like it's not to Monday morning quarterback. What we'll do is as the call's developing, we stop and we'll talk as though we're the cops in the body cam. We're like, okay, from here, here's what I'm thinking. This is what I would do next. And then we see how the officer plays it. A lot of times they do exactly what we're thinking. Um, just kind of shows how training has some similarities across the nation. Sometimes they go way off the fucking rocker.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:47

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:47

But they still get the job done. And you're like, oh, that was a different way to handle that call. I never would have thought of that. Or the fun ones is fucking, you know, like the Sonia Massey one, where we're like, what in the fuck are we doing? Why are we still here? That one actually made me angry. Yeah, because we were because we didn't know that it, and that's the other thing, uh, Lance, when we do the body cam stuff, we don't know what the outcome is. We haven't seen it yet. So we're seeing it fresh with everybody else. So I think that really helps, you know, people engage and understand what's going on. Um, but uh country girl, I don't know what the fuck you're asking.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:22

I don't know what throw up uh throw up Eye of the Nights comment there.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:26

I don't even know what that means.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:28

The only time Eric has ever had the opportunity to say.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:31

We went long. Uh shut up, I uh mess up. Fair enough. Um, I don't know what country girl's asking. She's she just keeps repeating the same thing. I need you to be more articulate, ma'am. Uh what you're talking about. Um, but yeah, so when we get through the video, uh, you know, we we're able to find out all of a sudden, like on the Sonny Massey one, where we're like, okay, I would have left here. All right, why are we still, you know, we're discussing. Why are we still? You've never been on the dentist. We'll pause it, you know, like, all right, well, this is what I would have done. I'll be like, all right, here's your piece. I'm out. And then shit, all of a sudden all hell breaks loose, and we're like, we pause, we're pissed off. We're like, what the fuck? Why, why, why? So it's fun. Um, and so now that you've been on, Lance, uh, one of the things that I will um uh sorry, somebody text me. One of the things I would like to do in the future is have you come on to the live and we don't have to go through your whole background story and all that stuff now. People know who you are and know what you're about, and you can just be on here and bullshit with us and help us talk to other people that we have on the show, or we can do body cam breakdowns and shit like that, and just just have you on just to shoot the shit. Talk about what you got going on.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:43

I'm retired, so I'm always available. That's what I'm talking about. Even you know, last time I got on my this is how I got on Cottville. I saw him say, Well, I couldn't get I had nobody to call, so I called this guy, and I'm like, dude, you know, I'm just sitting at home doing nothing. He's like, Oh, my bad. So I'm slightly, I'm like the last guy, but yeah, I mean, whenever I love telling my message and I love talking to people, so oh, I guess two cops women don't.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:05

You said Lance, you needed people. CC Country Girl is saying, 'What are we?

SPEAKER_01 2:30:11

Your audience, your people.' Oh, yeah. I see a lot of stupid shit sometimes. I piss people off, and I apologize. My wife tells me all the time, do you know what you just said? And I'm like, I really don't. And then if I had a yellow flag, it'd get tossed on me all day long.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:26

So yeah, no, I think um, we we definitely don't know what I said, it wasn't anything ill-intended. So I said I'll just apologize.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:36

Let me say what I don't know, but I call them, you know, I I I continue to say you have to have a louder voice. Um, because people do like the body camera stuff, but I didn't start Tim Blue Lied to be an entertainment channel. But I didn't realize early on that if you don't have a voice, nobody will listen to you. And so even my city council, it wasn't until I started, you know, I got to about 25 to 30,000 followers on Facebook, and 70% of those were Palm Bay that city council people that absolutely despise me call me up for advice. And so I say you have to have a voice. And and so I certainly appreciate every single person that follows, subscribes, and those that contribute to the channel. I can't thank you guys enough.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:18

Yeah, apparently it's country girl's birthday, too. I didn't know that. I must have missed that in the chat. Happy, happy birthday, happy birthday, country girl.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:25

Happy birthday, but I wasn't looking at the chat, so it's not on me, it's on them.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:29

Fucking night. It's okay, CCG and Eric is still confused. Air Force should have been army. Eric, did you have an waiver for the air force? He fucking hassled. Holy shit. Yeah, I'm an idiot. I don't know. Sometimes I just say stuff and I'm not paying attention. Uh, it is it's ADHD. That's it, it is what it is. It's a superpower and it's crippling at the same time. So it's crippling is this guy that's been on the side of my nose all show. I don't know if you can see that big dog right there. That mother. I what so I swim almost every day. Um, and I wear a nose piece. Well, it causes my nose to get pimples all the time. And this one, I was telling Benny, I was like, it hurts so bad.

SPEAKER_03 2:32:11

Uh from your scuba Steve Goggle. My soup. Yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 2:32:15

I really wish I would have gone navy, is what I'm trying to say. Anyway, um, Lance, it's been great. Thank you so much, sir. Uh, stick around when we get off of here and um we'll just kind of chit-chat afterwards. Um, but everybody else, thank you. Banning, you got any parting words, sir?

SPEAKER_03 2:32:34

No, I just appreciate our audience. And if we didn't convey that tonight, you can put that on me. But we we obviously appreciate y'all. Y'all are y'all are the reason we keep coming back and we try to bring interesting guys like Lance here. I mean, Lance, I'm so glad that Lance was able to make time and come to our show. If you haven't subscribed to his channel, please do.

SPEAKER_00 2:32:51

Subscribe to his channel. Thank you very much. Everybody, have a good night. Thanks for joining. Thank you.