This is Coach Merny Young, lifestyle entrepreneur and certified professional coach, and you're listening to the Transform Your Mind, the Transform Your Life radio hour and podcast. I believe it takes a mindset shift to take you to the next level in your career, your finances, relationships, health and fitness, or happiness. So, your journey to manifesting your goals and desires starts now. Transform your mind to transform your life. Welcome to the Transform Your Mind to Transform Your Life Radio Hour and Podcast. Today we are doing this live, and my guest today is the fabulous Dr. Trey Ahia. And we are going to be talking on the topic of our all psychopaths predators, the Jeffrey Epstein story. Welcome, Dr. Trey. Hi. I like this format. Yes. And uh this is also our virgin uh, you know, live video Zoom format. So I hope we don't have too many um technical difficulties as I'm writing this. All right, so um there have been some subjects that have always fascinated me, and one of them um are sociopaths. Um, this fascination began when I read the book, The Psychopath Next Door. And this was a story about a man who selected this woman because of her vulnerability. And a side note, just want to let you know that sociopaths always choose their victims. He actually knocked on her door one day and began a friendship. Then he got her to move away from her friends and family to this remote house in England. Side note again, sociopaths always want to get you away from your friends because your friends and family strengthen you. Jeffrey Epstein, who we're going to be talking about today, had his island in the Virgin Islands. Alright, so this house in England, where the sociopath took this woman, was a large Victorian home. The man, let's call him Jim, told her that he inherited this property and had her suggest that they modernize the house with her money. Later in the story, after she had escaped with her life, she found out that the property was actually rented. It was a con to get her money. Um, another note sociopaths are liars. Then Jim started abusing her verbally, emotionally, then physically. He told her that if she ever left him, he would kill her. Every time she attempted to leave, he would find her and punish her. Finally, in desperation, she walked for miles one night in the freezing cold to someone's house and hid there. Um side note again, sociopaths always keep you in control with abuse. Remember the Robert Kelly documentary? All the women said that he controlled them with physical abuse and punishment, like starvation, when they disobeyed his orders. And his orders were like, You gotta ask me before you go to the bathroom, else you're gonna be punished, you know, something like that. So, like I said, this story imprinted on my mind. And since then, I have been always being on the lookout for sociopaths. Almost all of them are good looking and charming, and they use this asset to reel in their victims. Jeffrey Epstein was no different. He was good looking and charming and was able to charm his way into getting jobs as a teacher and a securities broker without having any of the necessary paperwork because he had dropped out of college. As a predator, they all also use this good-looking charm to make women fall for them. And after they get them emotionally tied, they switched from charming to becoming a monster. Sociopaths are almost also narcissistic. They can feel no emotion, and so they do unconscionable things without even batting an eyelid. Jeffrey Epstein raped hundreds of children for decades by luring them with $200. He knew that to a 14-year-old, $200 was a lot of money. He knew that to a um if he ordered a call girl or a prostitute, the price for a massage and sex would be $2,000, not $200. Then of course, they wouldn't turn him on. Only young girls turned him on. So sociopaths are also disgust as honest. In my story, Jim swindled over $100,000 from his victim to modernize a house that he did not own. Jeffrey Epstein was also a thief. He stole $46 million from one of his employers and was fired from another one for stealing. So, to answer the question for me as a you know a life coach and not from the doctor's point of view, I'm gonna say that sociopaths are predators because they're always looking for their next victim. They might not be all in like Jeffrey Epston and Robert R. Kelly, but they are predators who charm women, men, and children out of whatever their prize is. They are sociopaths right now scamming old people out of their last dollar and have no remorse for these seniors that have no funds left to live out their lives. All right, so that was my intro to the topic. And I did bring on Dr. Trey Ahia because she is a psychologist, and we're talking about a condition of the mind. So, Dr. Trey, um, can you lead us into the conversation? And one of the things I want to ask you right off the bat, I use the term sociopath because that's the more popular one, but I've always called these people psychopaths. So maybe you can tell us first of all what's the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath, and then we can talk about whether they're predators or not.
SPEAKER_06Well, for me, I don't use either term. Okay, it's a layman term, and you're speaking about an antisocial personality disorder. Okay, so there's records of several people in our lifetime, like Jeffrey Dahmer's and some other individuals, now Jeffrey Epstein, who can be diagnosed with that. And so the reason why I use that term, the actual term, from a psychological perspective, a diagnostic criteria is attached to that, that term. So there are seven diagnostic criteria that we would use in order to diagnose someone with that, and you described some of those things. Okay, go ahead.
SPEAKER_05So um you want to go. I know seven, right? I was telling you at one point in time that um I read that, and a lot of times when I come across someone that I think I call them a psychopath or whatever in my mind, I'm I'm like ticking them off by those things. So tell us what those seven things are.
SPEAKER_06So um the diagnostic criteria, one, we have letters A, B, and C. In letter A, there's a pervasive pattern. Now, this is what you were speaking about with him and R. Kelly as well, a disregard for and violation of the rights of others. Okay. Clearly, those men certainly could you know adhere to that. Right. And then it's occurring usually since the age of 15 years. That's the piece, as indicated by three or more of these seven. So one is a failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors, as indicated by repeatedly reperforming acts that are grounds for arrest. And we saw that with both of those individuals that we are talking about today. Number two, deceitfulness, very much so, very deceitful. Scamming a gentleman that he worked with out of millions of dollars. He taught out of school without the proper credentials. Yeah, yeah. Deceitful. Said he went to certain schools and never attended the schools, the colleges. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so the repeated lying or and and uses some of these men even use um aliases, they con others for their own profit, their personal profit and pleasure. Clearly, right? So so far he's gotten two of those criteria. Right, right, right. Number three is impulsivity or failure to plan ahead. Number four would be uh irritability, aggressiveness as indicated by repeated fights or assaults. Interesting, right?
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_06Number five, reckless regard for safety of self and others. Okay, yes. Number six, consistent irresponsibility as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations, and number seven, a lack of remorse, yeah, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another individual. Yeah, and then the the B in that would be the individual is at least 18, so yes. The C there's evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15. That's interesting. I wonder if we were able to get back into his files as a young man or as a teenager, would we find issues surrounding conduct disorder? And then B interesting. The occurrence of anti-social behavior is not exclusively during the course of a schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. So that's another component there. Did this person suffer from any other mental is uh issues like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder? So that's a concern that needed to be addressed as well. Yeah, but certainly with this Epstein gentleman, he you know had the comforts of wealth. Right. So did Art Kelly. And yes, they did, and and they had the the unfortunate piece for some may say that they had testosterone roaming through their bodies. Oh, okay. Which and and and testosterone in men tends to be a challenge in how they can corral those sexual feelings. And you know, if we look at the brain, a hypothalamus is the the seat of that, you know, for the limpic system, in other words. So, you know, I can imagine that it may be a struggle for some males to rein that in.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's when we're we're we're so that's with the sexual part of it, with the sexual predators, because yeah, I was actually very, very surprised that when Jeffrey Epstein did go to prison the first time for um 18 months and he got himself out on a work permit, um, that he was still bringing women in to his office to have sex, and that realized that he couldn't stop.
SPEAKER_06He couldn't stop, right? Yeah, it's a compulsiveness. Remember, Ted Bundy did the same thing, he they incarcerated him, he got out twice, he escaped twice and went on the same behavior, he continued the same exact behavior with those women, killing and murdering and having sexual um encounters with them. Wow.
SPEAKER_05So that's part of the impulsiveness and also part of the testosterone where you're saying that they probably have too much testosterone, and that's why they keep they can't stop sex or acts.
SPEAKER_06So um not that not that it's too much, because there are men who you know are able to control themselves. However, when you look at the difference between how female bodies are constructed and designed with test with minimal amounts of testosterone and greater amounts of progesterone and estrogen, our behaviors tend to be a little different in terms of our sexual proudness and that sort. Um, and then men have because testosterone gives us that uh that we're able to build our muscles, our aggressiveness becomes more pronounced. So you just think about reining all of that in. And then, so there are many variables when we think about these behaviors. There are many variables. Um, how the person was uh um their environment, how they were nurtured, all of that plays a role in their ability to continue this. He couldn't stop. Ted Bundy could not stop, right? R. Kelly could not stop, right? These men have to be incarcerated, they have to be incarcerated, and even even death.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, because like you just remember, like R. Kelly, the situation has been with him for years now, and he keep getting off. And you would think, okay, you would say to yourself, My goodness, um, they're on me. I better stop. But he didn't stop either, and neither did Jeffrey Epstein. He didn't stop now. And it may be a little richer, right?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, he knew that someone knew about him, and he just could not stop. He just couldn't stop.
SPEAKER_05Right, right. Well, yeah, two different cases in a sense where I personally think that the reason Jeffrey Epstein did not stop, sure, he had no remorse, he didn't care about these women, he just cured about himself. He was, you know, they called him narcissistic, you can call him a sociopath, you can call him all these different things, or um, but he knew or he thought that he can buy his way out. And he did. I mean, I was quite impressed at the first time um that when he was tried, he had eight um lawyers, a team of eight lawyers. Can you imagine how much that cost him? But that's what rich people said they throw this up. Now, R. Kelly was poor. I mean, he couldn't even afford a proper lawyer, that's why he's still in jail. But um is that why? Is that why he was, you know, by the time he got arrested, he was broke. So um he couldn't even afford bail. They did give him bail.
SPEAKER_06He couldn't afford it, and I think some women, but you know, so so I think it's a little different in terms of in terms of him getting out because of his offenses.
SPEAKER_05Right, right, right. So all right, so I wanna I wanna swing back to something you said about um a lot of times these conditions, um, this antisocial behavior is your you're technically um recalling it, um, starts at 15, I think you said. So on that's when it that's when so if some if if you're uh you know um if your child is going to a therapist and the therapist would notice this behavior, it starts at 15. Um not that parts. Right, right.
SPEAKER_06Okay, oh 15, and it not necessarily the point is that it's occurring since that. There's things that might we may see leading up to that, okay. But by 15, clearly, then that's one of the criteria that would help the clinician to properly diagnose that individual. Right.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and I also remember that um I had a foster child that was diagnosed uh with um conduct disorder, and the psychologist told me that when your children, it's called conduct disorder, and when they become an adult, then it transitions into psychopathy or sociopathy or whatever, and you just mentioned that. Yes. What's the connection there?
SPEAKER_06That you know, from okay, so yes, in our in our Bible, the diagnostic and statistical manual that we use to help diagnose individuals so that we can provide appropriate treatments for them. That is some of the criteria, criteria. When we look at someone's conduct when they're younger, um they don't have the ability to be around many people without supervision, okay. As they as they would when they get to be in their later teens, we give children humans more freedom to do. So that's when perhaps we might see that transition. Um, and then one of the things that's that's critical about humans and animals is that um repetition of behaviors, the repetition. So if I know that when I was younger, I was always, and I always I think about Jeffrey Dahmer in this this piece when we talk about his conduct. Um, I I'm comfortable uh maybe killing an animal. I get in the habit of doing that, no one's around. I'm 11, 12, 13, 14. Yeah, hey, I wonder what it would be like to do the same to an adult for whatever reason. Maybe he wanted to hear the person's heart or whatever, or touch he, you know, touch the squirrel or the roadkill's um body parts. I wonder how it would be to feel a human's body parts or heart or what have you. So it transitions to that as an adult. It's unfortunate.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. I remember, listen, like I said at the very beginning, that this subject has always fascinated me. And I think I remembered recently there was a movie about a young boy. I don't remember the name of the movie, I don't remember, but he started killing animals, right? And yes, and skinning them just to see or whatever. And he would go and pick up the dead animals that were the ones that he didn't kill, he also went by on the road and picked up the animals that are by the by the roadside and skin them just so that he can experiment. And then he started with people. That's what basically you're saying. And and so even with, you know, I am assuming that there's a few female people with antisocial behaviors, and you know, the parents can go back to when they were little girls, they would kill their baby dolls, you know, or they're not can't kill them, they're like turn off their head and yeah, you know what I mean. And then they they go and they look at you know how they treated the animals, you know, would they punish the animals and always make them scream and yell and all that. So even though I think what you're saying is that this behavior can be viewed um from 15 years old or diagnosed or put a label on it, um, if you go back to their childhood, you probably will see what's the evidence of you know the same antisocial behavior, you know, hidden kids, biting kids, you know, kicking animals, you know, breaking up your dolls or breaking off their heads and that kind of thing, correct?
SPEAKER_06Well, so one of the things that interests me about that piece when can can we actually pinpoint in anyone when this behavior happened? So in my brain and studying human behavior, I always look at two things. One, the predisposition. Is there a familial link between um some type of uh psychological issues, mental health issues, and that person's uh familial link there, line lineage? And then what was the person's environment like? When you grew up, what did what did you look at a lot? What did you notice adults doing, saying, observing? What did I have my child as the parent, what did I expose my child to? So for me, those are two key elements that guide me down a path to be able to not only diagnose, but to provide treatment for this individual. So if you if there's a parent that says, Oh, I noticed that my child, like Epstein's mom or dad, might have noticed some type of behaviors within. Well, what did they do to help him to change those behaviors? What what some folks won't do anything and they just uh discount it as oh he'll grow out of it, he'll she'll grow out of it, and that's really interesting. Take a look at it.
SPEAKER_05Robert R. Kelly, I should say, none of them went to his childhood. They started, you know, so I don't know about um well they did look at his childhood.
SPEAKER_06Go ahead. Oh, they did look at his childhood in those documentaries in great detail. Robert Kelly? Yes, they did. They looked at his in great detail and found out from his brothers that he had been sexually assaulted by a male and female.
SPEAKER_05Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_06And it it it you know they people take pictures of their children. People take pictures. Each year the school takes a picture of us. If you depending on you can almost tell when an individual has that break from the norm. If you look at the picture, oh I yes. Even if you look at well, you can see a sadness come over the individual and it tells in their face on those pictures, you know, some of them. You can really tell.
SPEAKER_05Good information.
SPEAKER_06Yes. So it's it's nice when you say, Oh, let me see your you have a, you know, when you're trying to learn something about somebody, oh let me see your um, you have a photo album, you know, and you can tell a lot from someone from looking at those annual pictures each year. You can grow that's very true.
SPEAKER_05They didn't they didn't talk to um Robert R. Kelly's parents, but they did speak to his brothers and stuff like that. That's probably why I I missed that. But yeah, they're saying that the reason that he became a sexual predator is because he himself was was perpetrated upon right, exactly. Exactly. And so did you study Jeffrey Epstein? How did he become there? D I don't remember hearing anything about his childhood on the in the in the documentary.
SPEAKER_06So I haven't had the opportunity yet to delve in. I just started kind of being aware. Um, I knew that I came into the picture when there were reports of this man killing himself in jail and the controversy over that. So if you remember that times period, that's when I became privy to his case. So I haven't had the time yet to delve back to see, like, okay, what's going on with this young man? Where did he develop these inappropriate behaviors? You know, what was going on in his environment, you know?
SPEAKER_05He wasn't born rich. He's you know, he became rich by you know, that's all con. This is amazing what you can do with a con. You can become a billionaire. Wow.
SPEAKER_06But as a man and as a Caucasian man, your the perception of society as that this Caucasian person certainly wouldn't scam me. And I I I see, you know, people look at what they see and they take that as the basis for judging the individual. Oh, his wealth, and you know, all of those types of um elements is what would drive someone away from the negative thought process in judging an individual.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so it would be interesting to see if um he was poor or something and um uh went after wealth because and then decided to use his money to buy women and um, you know, whatever. But it was very, you know, I'm not saying that I'm sorry for him, but I think it's very sad that he doesn't have any heirs or anybody, you know, never married or married one time. I think that's great that he doesn't. But I mean, like you live your life in that, you know, that's something that you should you should want. And I remember in the in the documentary, um, him and his girlfriend um uh you know asked one of the girls to have a baby for them. So yeah, it's obviously something they were thinking about, but it never materialized.
SPEAKER_06So isn't that wonderful, the way the universe works?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. I don't think R. Kelly has any child, yeah, he does, his children, right?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, he does. But we wouldn't want any of uh Epstein's uh gene's genetic pull to still be because it's passed on, isn't it? Oh, some like I said before, predisposition. Predisposition, predisposed, predisposed to uh a mental health issue, and perhaps it someone in his lineage may have had some type of mental health issue, and his may have manifests itself in this particular form antisocial personality disorder. Yeah, wow.
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SPEAKER_06Well, I don't know if they they have been diagnosed. I don't know. Okay. I haven't heard, but perhaps certainly by the behaviors, antisocial uh you can see it that they met many of the criteria that we discussed already. They met a lot of it.
SPEAKER_05Right. So um let's let's let's talk about um you know, even my story, for instance, the guy that um uh you know targeted this woman, um, obviously because she had the money and he was charming.
SPEAKER_06I don't know if that's obvious, but okay.
SPEAKER_05Well it is because he took a hundred thousand from her, right? So I mean a sociopath or an antisocial person is not gonna target you unless you have nothing. It's either they want they want something, right? So um he targeted her. I think her husband had just died, and he noted she had some money, and and he he started to be her friend, and then you know the story progressed where he told her that he had this this this place that he wanted to he got inherited and he needed to move, and then when they got there, you know, the house was run down and old. Um, and he, you know, um uh told her that they were that he was gonna marry her and that they were gonna live in this house and took all our money, and then the abuse started, and then she couldn't leave, and and it became a mess. She couldn't leave, threatened to kill her, she feared for a life, he took all our money, and of course she was in a different country with no friends and family. So that's that's you know, so that's what um what we want to talk about. We want to talk about somebody that has this predisposition. We can label them anything, but you know, for someone that's listening to our conversation today, how would they go about in um in life looking for somebody that is ingenuine? Someone that is how to to get whatever you got that they want.
SPEAKER_06Those that are listening and seeing us. Yay, that's right. Yes, I forgot that part, yes. So you're saying how would they be able to identify identify an individual like that? Oh wow, well, one thing time, and they want they don't want to trust the individual. You want to be more cognizant of uh who you're trusting of. You want to be aware of someone asking you about your your life in terms of your financial abilities, and you want to be more cognizant of the fact that and then an individual could could ask could limit the frequency that they visit your place to stay, your dwelling. Go visit their dwelling, go see where they live, you know, go see what uh their lifestyle is like, talk to their family members, don't even allow them to come to your home for at least 90 days.
SPEAKER_05Okay, so those are some rules. I like that. So um so let's let's let's bring it down a little bit to um uh men that just use and abuse women. I know that you um uh tells me that you have got a lot of experience in that. You um you were in a panel with that. So it's the same thing, antisocial behavior where the it's a Jeffrey Epstein butt on uh maybe in an individual or maybe 10, 20 women or whatever, but but you know, so uh a lot of times you know, you're lonely, a lot of times you you need something, and whatever it is that you need, I know about enough about this conversation to know that whatever it is that you need, the sociopath or the antisocial behavior person can pick it out. And actually, they said that Jeffrey Epstein had the ability to read you and whatever it is that they think that you want that they're gonna already give to you so that they can take you, start taking you down this path.
SPEAKER_06Yes. So when I worked with family, when I work with families uh who have children that have been sexually assaulted, I my first during my intake, my first conversation, one of the first things I say to the parents is now your child has the 50% likelihood of being sexually assaulted again because pedophiles tend to know they have a great idea, they have a sense that this is. So perhaps it is the same with a predator like the Jeffrey um Epsteins. Now, one of the things that I like to make people aware of is unfortunately, you have to be guarded. You have to be guarded when you're meeting new people. Now we have the internet and people are meeting each other online and that sort. And a lot of folks, like you and I, we clean up pretty well. Right? So who would think if if you're looking for a gentleman friend, just even a friend, and he cleans up pretty well, and you've been dating him now for maybe 12 weeks or so, what are some of the red light things, the red flag indicators that are gonna say, oh stop. So let me tell you what happens. Humans tend not to listen to that inner voice. We tend not to listen because we are like you said, we're needy, we're lonely, we want. Yes, and what we have to, what individuals need to start to focus on is my what's important for me to live life as with as less stress as possible and without the drama and as comfortably as possible. If we focused on those things, like what's helpful for me, and um, you know, even though this person is presenting so well, yeah, so well, that one thing, that one thing might have clicked that red flag. That's the one thing you need to pay attention to and begin to distance yourself from that individual. Hands down, that intuition that you have is accurate.
SPEAKER_05Most people walk right over that word file. I know exactly what you're talking about. They walk right over it, and sometimes there's something that says love is blind, sometimes they don't even see it. So many times they've listened to stories where there are dozens of red flags, and they went right through it until one thing penetrates, and then one thing penetrates, and then they notice all the things that are, you know, like that went before because they're in love and this emotion takes over.
SPEAKER_06And well, that's one person is good at what they do, and the other thing is because the a lot of times you said people will ignore these signs or not be aware of those signs, it it may be because they have a habit of being exposed to these types of types of individuals. So there's a habit, and what happens when we are involved in habits? They become a way of life.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_06You don't notice it had been who did this, you know. My dad did this, and yeah, my mom's boyfriend, you know. So there's a habit there.
SPEAKER_05My ex-boyfriend did it, right?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yes, yes, yes, and it's not until they meet other strong women, or they some people go to college and have classes, like some of the ones I teach, or they become aware of this thing that they are attracted to, and they learn later on how to change what they are projecting so they'll draw something different. That's good.
SPEAKER_05That's good because it's very true. Whatever we put out, that's what we get back.
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SPEAKER_05He says, if you have a weak mind, regardless if you're 30 or you're 14, he's going to target you because he can pick up the fact that you have a weak mind. And how did he control them? He controlled them by telling them when they can eat, when they can go to the bathroom. As far as I know, Jeffrey Epstein didn't really have relationships. He just had a lot of people.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, just with the one lady.
SPEAKER_05Right, right. And then the girls that he he sexually abused, they came to give him a massage, did what he needed to do, and they left. Right. He wasn't keeping it in the house.
SPEAKER_06Well, he developed relationships with the ones he abused who were extremely needy. There was one young lady that didn't have, you know, she was really kind of homeless since the time she was little. She was introduced to him at the age of 14, and she continued to get other women to him. And then there was another young girl who continued to bring him women, and he developed those types of relationships with them. They were, you know, pseudo-relationships, but still, you know, they were relationships nonetheless.
SPEAKER_05So what can we learn from the Jeffrey Epstein story that we can pass on to our listeners as well or people that are watching us today? What advice would you give to young girls, women to to look out for these predators?
SPEAKER_06Well, um, you know, now we have to give this type of advice to our young children. Males and females. Yeah. Males and females. Because people will try will try to manipulate them and um do things to them to get them to perform sex acts and win them over at a very young age. There was someone when one of Jeffrey Epstein's birthdays, they gave him three 12-year-old girls as a birthday gift. So my thought, and and then if you saw some of the images of some noted men today, some noted, yes, powerful men today who think that this behavior is okay. They hung out with him, they partook, they had, and some of them have daughters of that same age. So it's almost like it's you know, part of the men's club. It's okay to do this, you know. Well, they're they're kids, they're girls, and some European countries and some Middle Eastern countries, the the idea is to get little boys and they pay them two dollars for the entire day. Yeah, and they sodomize these boys, which is so hurtful. So when we when we're talking to people who have never experienced that, never experienced it, I for me, I tell parents it's okay to be quote unquote a helicopter parent. It's okay to not let your kids spend the night over so-and-so stuff. It's okay to be a hands-on face-to-face with your kid until they are at least 18 going into college. From zero to 18, you're constantly putting in information about how these people behave and what to watch out for. And no, you're not going to a sleepover. And if you go to a party at the school, I'm gonna be one of the chaperones. If I let you go overseas to a trip, I'm gonna go overseas with you and be a chaperone. If you value your child's life and you do not want your child to be fractured into pieces as a result of this trauma, because it is a trauma, those are some of the things that we should proudly do for our children. I I I work in the education field right now, and there are people that will become educators or social workers on campuses, or they'll work with the children because they know they have time to be with them alone. Oh wow. That is true.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, we had a um yes, right here in Fort Myers, there was an incident where someone was a coach and that's what he was doing. Yes. Of course, it is.
SPEAKER_06I've been privy to some teachers who are older individuals who transition from one particular career as they age to another career, and they have to be fired because we find out that they're pedophiles. So, as a to me, for me, me personally, I have never ever, before this became a thing, I have never ever been alone with a child behind a closed door. Couple of reasons, couple of reasons. And you're feeling children, right? Yeah, but the children they need to feel safe. So when they come into my office, I I I won't take an office that doesn't have a window somewhere in it. If the child I tell the child they can leave the door open, so and they can sit near the door, and my desk is away from the door, and where our sitting space is, I always you can have a seat where you're comfortable, but I make it so that the door is there for them because of the traumas that they've experienced. It's not about me per se. It's more about making them feel comfortable so that they're able to disclose to me some of the experiences that they've had, and then I can help them seek help and that sort.
SPEAKER_05So I've had a lot to make them comfortable and let them realize that you're not going to be one of those people that have hurt them. As you were talking, I remember there is this thing that was going around Facebook not too long ago when the Me Too movement started, where all these women came out and talked about how they were sexually abused. Um, and there was something that, you know, came out. The guy says, you know, you women should be more careful who you're just leaving your kids to for free babysitting, because that's exactly what happened. They don't have any, especially in the black community, you don't have any money to be a babysitter, so you send it to an uncle and aunt or whoever, and then those are even cousins, family members, family members, friends that come in and abuse your children. There's so, so many incidents of that.
SPEAKER_06Um, in fact, um there are same, sorry, there are same-aged sexual predators, same age.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but I wasn't even talking about the same age. I'm talking about the aunties and uncles, but you're very right too. Oh, I know what you were saying. Younger boys, like when they're starting to be, you know, 15, 16, I mean, whenever. But they see they yeah, they abuse the the young ones too. It's very true. Yes, it's a world that we're living in where the predators start young, they learn the behavior, they continue um going after it, you know what I mean? They get they perfect the behavior, and um uh women that are men or whoever that um uh that have this need that they need someone else to fulfill. This is basically what happens when you decide that you are all that you need, and if someone's coming around and that person is gonna, you know, expand you, but you're okay by yourself, then you cut out, you know, needed for someone to be a predator to you because they're they're they're a predator to you because they're attaching to your vulnerability and your need to have someone in your life. And and that's why you ignore all the the red flags, and that's why you ignore most things, and then yeah, and then when you come out of it, like you said, you're in pieces, and then the next person are able to smell that like a like a dog that can smell fear, you know, they're able to sense it, and then yeah, you live a life that's worse, right?
SPEAKER_06One of the things that people who behave inappropriately like that, even criminals of other uh genres, they will test you, but part of what they do to groom you is to test you. Really? Like, for example, in Epstein case, one of the girls said, I'm not doing that. You know, he wanted to put his hand down below. Oh, I'm not doing that, you know. So he did certain things. First of all, he had someone else bring you over. Right. Then that person stood next. So you saw you went upstairs, you saw this room. Still, so that's part of the test. Still, I didn't say no, even though something tells you this is not right. Right, right. So you can then you go into the once you go into the room, you see the him laying on the the bed naked, right? Still, he's constantly putting you to the test.
SPEAKER_04Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_06Then your friend leaves you, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And you still stay, right?
SPEAKER_06So all the flags are just that is that is so true.
SPEAKER_05Oh my god, that's amazing.
SPEAKER_06Then he says something to you that doesn't feel right, but you still stay. And guess what?
SPEAKER_05In your youth after he asks you a question, that's when he turns over. After he realized that you that's true, he doesn't turn over and then ask the right question. Right.
SPEAKER_06In your youth and in your innocence, it's taking advantage of someone's youth and innocence from zero to about 21 or 22. We're still trying to sort things out. We're we're a playground for these pedophiles between zero and twenty-five. So and and one of the the things about Jeffrey that that he he didn't even drug the people. No, he didn't even drug them. This guy, smooth operator, but all the red flags.
SPEAKER_05Because, like I said, the promised of $200, the $200 was put at the forefront. The the girl that took him over said, Do you want to make $200 to massage an old man? And the $200 is all that's playing in their head because they probably never had $200, right? So, and that's why they stay. And he did give them the $200, right?
SPEAKER_06Well, those girls, some of those girls were wealthy girls.
SPEAKER_05No, their parents were poor.
SPEAKER_06Some of the girls, not all, were wealthy. Okay. Do you remember the school they talked about?
SPEAKER_05And West Palm Beach, they showed you the area, and most of them came from uh, you know, they were poor. Um uh the wealthy ones might have come from up right.
SPEAKER_06Not all of them. And so one girl said, because when they interviewed her, like, why did you take the money? You know what? Well, I thought I could she wanted to do some, I think gifts, it was time, a season for you can remember that one, yes, right.
SPEAKER_05I think she was rich. I remember I remember when she said she wanted the $200 for Christmas presents or something.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and I get that. You know, you don't want to ask the parents whether you're rich or not, you know, you know, whatever you are. You you want to try to be able to do it on your I get that. Yeah, so he really just preyed on on them, whether they were rich or poor. Right. Um, and like I said again, between zero and twenty-one and twenty-two, humans tend to be innocent. The closer you get to zero, of course, we're more innocent. Right. Um, so it's it's just unfortunate that a lot of these individuals know that. He preyed on he preyed on the men that he took money from. He prayed on them. I think he even had a sexual encounter with one of the men.
SPEAKER_05Well, I'm not the guy denied it, but the guy that he stole the 45 million dollars from, they're saying they had a sexual relationship. That's a big powerful man. I don't know. They kind of they kind of side-swiped that one.
SPEAKER_06They did, they did, but that the powerful men in that it is a powerful men in that in that documentary that victimized and sexually assaulted some of those kids too.
SPEAKER_05Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Wow. All right. Well, it looks like we had a great conversation. We're we're almost out of time now. So let's tell um our listeners and our watchers, Dr. Trey, you mentioned that you do have some classes that speak to um this. Tell our listeners um uh you know what you do and how they can get in touch with you and how you can help them uh look out for these predators.
SPEAKER_06So if they go to Dr. Treya here at LinkedIn, if they go to Facebook under special needs, um I'm doing a um a series um coming up here this summer into the fall that will address uh issues um and sp with special needs children, the assault they the assault victims they are you know perpetrated upon opioid addiction. You know, my book um talks about a lot of that uh addiction and focusing on teens, telling young.
SPEAKER_05Tell your book again. We might not have new listeners. Okay.
SPEAKER_06Oh, and can they see it in the background there?
SPEAKER_05All right, yes, call me an addict. All right, Marcy. Yeah, um well I'm gonna have a link on on the on my uh on the show page, but yeah, you know and then I'm gonna be um doing more YouTubing than I have been uh under uh uh Kushi Bora, it's a Swahili term.
SPEAKER_06Um and then it's the focus uh b-o-r-a, um, meaning a better life living an enriched full life, live better. So that's the theme live better with Dr. Trey. They'll start to see more of that. Okay. Um, so um, yeah, LinkedIn will have a lot of that on it, a lot of where to find me under Dr. Trey and some of the things I'm gonna be doing coming up here in the summer. Okay.
SPEAKER_05Well, that's beautiful. Yes, and they can also head to the show page, which is blog at myhelps.us. Um we would have a transcript of this conversation today, um, as well as links to Dr. Trey's book and um her LinkedIn profile. And I'm also um gonna link you up to the Facebook because I'm not I'm not I have not seen your Facebook. Um okay. All right, all right. So I will definitely link up to there. And um, yeah, we want to thank you guys all for staying with us until the end. I want to thank you guys all for being part of our new face. We're changing the way we do this, and it looked like we didn't have any technical difficulty. Not at all, not at all.
SPEAKER_06This well, we wore this well.
SPEAKER_05Yes, we did. We just had a conversation and um it worked out really well. So, yes, it was it was an important topic to me because I you know, I I always like to join in the relevant conversations, and this is a conversation, and like I said, I've always um been uh you know kind of um interested in in the topic of uh you know, sociopaths, psychopaths, you know, and uh people with antisocial kind of behavior. So um but all right. Um Dr. Trey, thank you very much for bringing it. Yes, you always do. Yeah, got to gotta bring it for the people. You gotta bring it. That's right. So um thank you very much, and um until next time, um Namaste.