Leonardo da Vinci: Renaissance Man or Foreseer of the Future?

Leonardo da Vinci, renowned polymath and genius, stands as a figure of particular interest in our exploration. Da Vinci's intellectual prowess rivals modern luminaries such as Einstein and Tesla. His extraordinary abilities in various fields such as art, science, and athletics showcase the incredible capacity of the human mind. His drawings, specifically those created in his final years, are intriguing, grotesque, and some might say, prophetic. Are these sketches merely products of a brilliant but troubled mind, or could they be evidence of encounters with interdimensional beings?

During the Black Plague, there were reports of strange phenomena and sightings. Could these oddities have been the result of encounters with otherworldly beings? This line of thought opens up a world of questions about our understanding of history and our place in the universe.


https://jpisbpouts.mediu.com/leonardo-da-vinci-and-the-borgias-903f0367e3e0

https://www.history.com/topics/renaissance/leonardo-da-vinci

Leonardo Da Vinci, (2108), W. Isaacson, Simon & Schuster, New York

The Notebooks of Leonardo Da Vinci, (1970) J. Paul Richer, Dover Publications, Inc., Garden City, NY

"Space Journey" by Geoff Harvey
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Transcript

Joe: 1:01

Hello everybody, thank you for joining us today on Alien Talk Podcast, a program where we discuss all things about aliens and UFOs and where we always push the limits of our understanding. We are your hosts, Joe Landry and Laurie Oldford, and last time we were with you we discussed at length the subject of the end time apocalypse in the light of the recent events in Gaza and Israel. We went on to explain how prophecies about the end of the world are nothing new to our society and how there have been many predictions about it, none of which really have come to pass. But not just about the end, but also about things that we will have in the future, such as innovations and technological breakthroughs. So, we can see that it is not hard to make predictions about things that come about, things that will be invented and developed. Anyone with a little bit of imagination can conjure up images in their minds about things that could and perhaps actually will happen.

Laurie: 1:59

Yeah, well, that's exactly what a lot of science- fiction writing is about using the imagination to create another world, such as a futuristic world in which new technology exists that we don't have right now, and just think of all the movies out there that show that.

Laurie: 2:18

So, yeah, making predictions about the future is actually pretty easy. The trick is being dead on right about it, and even where it is said that prophecy is fulfilled, it is usually with some way of breaking a code at some point, well after the fact, and even then there is always a lot of ambiguity. This is particularly literally the case with Biblical prophecies, but also with the visions of Nostradamus. Something big will happen in the news, or some piece of historical information will come in light, will come to light, and then someone will dig into what are in his quatrains and then find descriptions, all in the metaphoric terms, of him writing about how that very thing will occur, and that he wrote it 500 years ago. So, we always see that these prophecies are vague and overgeneralized and are very subjective to the way a person understands the whole situation. Often a literary passage is considered to be something prophetic simply because it is made to fit into the depiction of some current event instead of the other way around.

Joe: 3:40

Right, exactly, and they are non-specific enough so as to be applied to more than one single event or more than one single person. How many brutal tyrants New York has seen over the last 500 years that fit Nostradamus's beast quatrains? All of them. We know that there has always been a lot of prognosticating going on, and it is really just based on reasonable expectation that merely comes from our knowledge about events happening in the present time, plus a good intuition about human behavior and a basic understanding of the nature of the world we live in, and that is, things always tend to go badly.

Joe: 4:18

For instance, many of us see what is going on in our society with politics and culture, so we can make predictions about what is going to take place in the months that will proceed... s ay, the 2024 presidential election. I can say that there will be violent riots and protests and that the US will become severely divided as a nation. If, a year from now, all that comes true, does that make me a prophet? The same can be said about the war in Ukraine and the conflict between Israel and Hamas. If I predict that both of these crises shall escalate to the point where more countries become involved, including the United States, and it then comes true at some point.

Joe: 5:00

Does that make me a prophet? The answer, of course, is no. When people foretell of things that will happen in the future, they are assessing the outcome of a current time in a reasonable and logical way, based on what is consistent with what would normally be expected, especially from what we have learned about similar events that have happened in the past. History teaches us lessons about what will happen in certain situations, right? So it is really just about taking a good bet, a calculated bet. There is really nothing magical or divine about it.

Laurie: 5:35

Yeah, and I can also sit on the side of a major roadway and say that within the next 10 minutes there will be at least five or 10 white pickup trucks. Say that will pass by. The odds are there will indeed be that many white pickup trucks, because I know that there are a lot of white trucks out there, and so my odds of being right will increase. But that doesn't mean or I mean, but that doesn't make me a prophet. And also we must remember that people are often wrong in their predictions. They're actually wrong at least 50% of the time, and those cases tend to get completely glossed over.

Laurie: 6:19

I mean, even the Simpsons cartoon is known to have had a few episodes of about what was the 750 of them? Yeah, where it seemed like there were things foretold in a subtle way. Like you said, we all can do this, but there are some people who can do it very well, better than most. One such figure, who is known to have envisioned things that were to come about hundreds of years after his lifetime is in an extraordinary way, all the way down to the very technical detail, is Leonardo da Vinci, aka the Renaissance man. To say that guy had intelligence, talent and abilities is certainly an understatement.

Joe: 7:11

Yeah, that's right, Laurie. Leonardo da Vinci was a thinker like none other, and he really wasn't matched until the past century with Einstein, Tesla, Schrodinger, Edison and guys like that when they came along. And quite a few biographies about him come out lately, such as by Charles Nicholl and Walter Isaacson, who both did really thorough and very good biographies about his life and his achievements. Da Vinci was also known as a polymath, which is someone who demonstrates excellence in multiple disciplines. It means to possess the capacity for expertise not only in science and mathematics, but also flawless mastery of art, music, literature, in addition to athletics. That sums up Leonardo da Vinci's skills and everything he did, as he was an expert as a painter, sculptor, architect, scientist and draftsman. He was exceptionally knowledgeable about medicine, anatomy, botany, chemistry, or alchemy, as it was called, also paleontology, mechanics, hydraulics and cartography.

Laurie: 8:22

His creativity and inventiveness were that of a genius, and drawings he made that painstakingly illustrated the complexities not only of the human body, as well as the designs for machinery that he conceived, are astonishing, even by today's standards. The sketch of the Vitruvian Man, which was done in 1490, is a perfect illustration of the human body and its proportions to geometric accuracy. Such a notion about the measurements of the arms and legs in relation to the head and torso was unheard of until Da Vinci studied it and then drew it out to superb detail using mathematics, and he got the whole idea from what he learned about Vitruvius, a Roman architect and engineer from the first century BC who served under Julius Caesar. So here we have, da Vinci with a mind for mechanics, understanding the human body as being machine-like and how it functions so precisely Something that was not given much thought by thinkers throughout the Middle Ages.

Joe: 9:39

Right. So, Leonardo da Vinci had to catch myself and not say Leonardo di Caprio, I have a tendency to slip up and do that. Definitely not the same guy. He lived in Italy from 1452 to 1519, right about the same time frame as Nostradamus, who was from 1503 to 1566 in France. This was a period known as the High Renaissance, in which Europe had pretty much emerged out of the Middle Ages, or the Dark Ages as it is known. You know. th e medieval times... and artistic, intellectual and cultural progress started taking place pretty rapidly. It was a New Age of Enlightenment and the revival of classical knowledge that went back to ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt and Babylon. It was a rebirth, which is actually what the word Renaissance means in French. It was a time of global changes that were social, political, academic as well as spiritual.

Laurie: 10:38

There are several things that he is famous for the Vitruvian man I just mentioned, also the Mona Lisa, the Last Supper painting, the Lady with the Ermine painting, and all of his notebooks containing his sketches and drawings. Strangely, the texts that he wrote out were done in reverse, so that it could only be read by holding them up to a mirror. Now it is often said that Da Vinci invented a lot of things like the submarine, the helicopter, the armored tank, the machine gun, the parachute, the automobile, what else? I believe the refrigerator was one thing that he is attributed to, but really he didn't build or test any of these things. He conceived them in his mind. He was able to understand the scientific principles that could make these things work, such as knowing the laws of motion, aerodynamics and the pressure and temperature of properties of gases. However, the materials and the tools that were needed to make these things weren't yet available.

Laurie: 11:52

Da Vinci was ahead of his time. According to Jean-Paul Richer, in The Notebooks of Leonardo da Vinci, most of these ideas would be pushed to the wayside and forgotten for hundreds of years. They are contained in manuscripts, about 100 of them called codices, that are now in various museums in Italy and France. Based on an excerpt from History. Com, dated on July 13th, 20 22.

Joe: 12:23

Yeah, that whole technique of writing backwards so it was going to be right in the mirror. That was sort of Da Vinci's secret way of preventing his notes from falling into the wrong hands. He was like a code. He didn't want to make it easy for anybody to just look at his notes and read them, so he wrote backwards, so that if he didn't have a mirror, it would be extremely difficult to understand what he wrote.

Joe: 12:46

And the Vinci's abilities definitely didn't go unnoticed by the nobles of Italy, as well as by the Papacy. He was employed by Cesare Borgia, a military engineer or as a military engineer, and he was responsible for building canals and bridges. If anyone who has watched the Borgias series on Netflix, you'll remember that Cesare Borgia Was the illegitimate son of Pope Alexander VI, AKA the Borgia Pope, and supposedly he was ruthless and vengeful. He was a condottieri who was in charge of a sizable regiment of the Papal Army and was also made a cardinal under his father, alexander Me, mostly through Simoni and intimidation, and according to Jean Pierre Isbouit with Medium. Com, dated August 4th, 2018.

Joe: 13:37

Well, Leonardo couldn't stomach Cesare's brutality and his campaigns to control Tuscany, and he resigned only after a short time is a few years of working for the Borgias there is too brutal for him. But he was then employed by the Medici family of Florence, who helped sponsor much of his artwork, along with Botticelli and Michelangelo. So, he was considered a big deal even throughout his own lifetime. Back then we're going to be out the big wigs.

Laurie: 14:06

This all took place after the world at least the world old world of Europe, Asia and Africa went through probably the worst part of the Black Plague, which was from 1346 to 1353, and brought the dead toll to an estimated 200 million people the worst pandemic in all of human history. I'm sure the people alive then thought they were living in the end times. Things changed drastically in the centuries after that and you have to wonder if The Plague had not occurred, would the Renaissance have happened the way it did? Would it have come at a later time perhaps? I mean it impacted the authority of the church quite a bit and the influence it had on the religious beliefs of people, with not only the beginning of the Protestant Reformation but also the movement toward secular humanism.

Joe: 15:03

And that is a good point to bring up, as this was a major transition the Renaissance that is, was a major transition in Western civilization that put it on course for tremendous breakthroughs that actually haven't even stopped to this day. So if there was no plague, would that have brought about the Renaissance at a time it did, which was in the 15th and 16th centuries? Where would we be now If we didn't have it happen at that time? Would our technological development be hampered, making our world today look more like, say, the 1800s or even the early 1900s? It's hard to say.

Joe: 15:43

The Black Plague was actually the second pandemic in human history, the major one. The first one was called the Plague of Justinian, and it went from 541 to 767. The second one actually came in three big waves, and it took it all the way until the early 19th century. So, it was a pretty long pandemic, just broken up in different time periods. Each one kind of got. The first one was the worst and they kind of with the last one wasn't as bad as the first one.

Joe: 16:17

Yeah, the first wave was the deadliest and actually the most widespread, and it may be that monks and scholars at that time wanted to look for cures for the plague, and they were inspired to seek out copies of old texts that contain the writings of Galen. And Galen was a Greek physician from the second century AD who was considered throughout the Middle Ages to be of the highest authority for medical science, and in terms of influence on Western thinking he was up there with Plato and Aristotle. So that may have set the spark for people to retrieve lost sources of classical knowledge and thus revive the empirical methods used in learning about science, and also to expand the human potential, that is, to steer away from religious superstition and more towards humanism and progress.

Laurie: 17:14

Well, during the Black Plague, people reported seeing these bronze-colored flying ships that produced a strange mist. Then there are the stories of beings looking like the Grim Reaper that were seen on the outskirts of towns just before a plague outbreak, and they were described as having some kind of site-looking thing that lifts out some form of mist as well. So, after this, the next day, there would be an outbreak of the plague.

Joe: 17:49

Yeah, you have to wonder if that was these ethereal images of what they were. Were they extraterrestrial, interdimensional? And if you recall, from a couple of years ago, Laurie, we spent a good bit of time examining the features that are found in the paintings from back then, around this time period, the Renaissance, the Middle Ages and even before then. Some of them were subtle and some of them were more blatant, and they indicate strange occurrences in the skies, strange objects to be exact. So this leaves us to wonder if they weren't meant to record otherworldly encounters. And there is something there. I mean, these paintings have these depictions. What were the artists thinking? What was he seeing around him that made it so that these weird little things became incorporated into their work? They didn't have cell phones or cameras back then that capture strange things in the sky. The best thing they could do was draw and paint from what they saw, from memory. Therefore, some of them put these phenomenons into hidden messages. They obviously it was important enough of an event that they remembered it.

Laurie: 19:34

Right, and Leonardo da Vinci was well known for putting hidden messages into his works. That's how Dan Brown got the whole idea for the Da Vinci Code right. So, paintings like the Mona Lisa. I would be okay with saying that the alien gray face that people are claiming to see is actually pareidolia, which is the name given to the optical illusion finding of the pattern of human faces within the context of something that really is not there.

Laurie: 20:07

And da Vinci was famous for putting hidden messages in his paintings, but in this case I don't think he used special enhanced paint to cover an alien gray, even though I too can see what appears to be an alien head. I can also see a bird on the alien's brow. Now, I thought that was a fluke until I saw his final work in 1513, called a Saint John the Baptist, and it really does look like an alien gray with the elongated skull and all. So maybe da Vinci was attempting to provide us with some hidden knowledge or something. Could it have been another case of coincidence? I mean it could be, but you have to admit that the mirroring and filtering in both have provided two pictures now of alien grays, and it makes you wonder if our ancestors knew who our gods really were and already had descriptive information about them, but that Western civilization, particularly the church, suppressed it all, and it does make you ponder if certainly people like da Vinci weren't trying to preserve that knowledge and pass it along all in secret.

Joe: 21:31

Yeah, there seem to be those hidden little clues, and it's hard to say what they actually mean, and they could mean. More than one thing raises our curiosity to see what the Vinci drew or painted, as it shows what images were actually in his mind at the time. Did he have religious visions, or was he taught a cultist wisdom? Or did he have a close encounter with an extraterrestrial being, and not only him, but with all of these other artists as well? Can we apply the same line of questioning? And aside from the encrypted stuff, there are sketches that the Vinci has made that are creatures that look grotesque, even demonic, but they also like aliens. There's really no other way to describe them.

Joe: 22:17

So why did the Vinci make such drawings, and these particular ones were done in the final years of his life? Is it that he was expressing images of things he had seen, such as creatures from another world or another dimension? You know the mid event. She was known to have created works of art that show the most lifelike and realistic detail, all the way down to the eyelashes. So whatever he saw before him, he was able to recreate it as a painting. Where's a drawing? Almost to being a perfect representation of the real person or the real object. So, with these grotesque sketches of his, we have to ask what was he seeing when he was doing this, when he was perfectly recreating it, that being in the way that only he, with his skills, could master?

Laurie: 23:04

Well, we mentioned before about the manifestation of ultra- terrestrial intelligence that originates outside of our spectrum of energy that, you know, we have thus far been able to measure. This is to say that it, you know, possesses the capacity to transcend Dimensions in ways that we can. So was this something that Leonardo da Vinci had experienced throughout his life? Did he witness interdimensional beings who may have traveled through space and time to get here, but far, you know, but from beyond, what our senses can detect within the parameters of our reality on earth? And, if so, is this how he was able to receive special insight and knowledge about things that are to come in his future? Is what we have now the things he was shown by them?

Joe: 24:00

Yeah, and you, the listeners, should check out what we're talking about with these grotesque sketches. They are weird. I mean they're just weird-looking things. We can put a few of them up on our website so you can see them. Some of them do look human, but ghastly. I mean sort of disfigured. You know nothing like Da Vinci's other works that show Humans with the utmost beauty and simple eye and perfection. No, these are more like haggards. And then there are the one that they did not have any human features at all. They simply look like something else.

Joe: 24:34

So what was going through his mind? Was Da Vinci trying to send the message to future generations who he knew would be closely analyzing his work, like we are today? Where was he losing his grip with reality? Was the possibly dementia setting in? But we really don't know for sure. But whatever these images were that Da Vinci had drawn, they were done with the greatest precision and the greatest attention to detail. They were. They weren't done sloppily or thrown together. These were done, like all of his other works, with a lot of attention to detail, a lot of focus, a lot of painstaking Activity. They look nothing like the expressions of a madman.

Laurie: 25:19

Right, and we said before how incredible the human imagination is, and we can think of anything and Everything pretty much, and we think about it and we bring it into existence by building it or Putting it into action. The same was true with our ancient ancestors, who had the same imaginations and that's why they were able to construct great monuments, battlefield weaponry, etc. And this is one of the many things that separates humans from every other species on the planet. The question is did we have assistance when we aided in developing these abilities or jump started by upgrade or you know, by something or someone? If you have been following us up to now, then you know our answer to this question, the uh. The answer, of course, is a resounding yes.

Laurie: 26:14

We are more likely to not Were an engineered species and it all goes back to the time of our creation, where we received consciousness. And this reminds me of the rendition forest case, where Jim peniston supposedly touched the alien craft with herald lifts symbols on it, and that's when he had these visions of a binary type of code Running through his mind of ones and zeros, and once the code was deciphered, the message was exploration of humanity continuous for planetary advancement. So if aliens are monitoring us. They may be reporting back to their superiors about our progress or, you know, their lack thereof.

Joe: 26:59

Well, it seems that people have always associated strange and inexplainable sightings, whether being the sky or or you know, closer to the ground and with the doings of the supernatural, and as they always think of these as being omens or signs of the divine will and power.

Joe: 27:18

I think Leonardo da Vinci would have been familiar with such a collective tradition, and if, at one time long ago, alien spacecraft had continuously crossed through our atmosphere, the ancients would have witnessed this and told stories about powerful deities. You know that, being the alien travelers, uh dwelt high above us in the heavens. So when we come across, you know things like glyphs or reliefs, and craving sculptures and paintings that Present and revere the otherworldly and the spiritual. We see that the artists are harkening back to the time when these extraterrestrial ships are flying around. You know, by putting orbs and discs into the works of art, uh, the creators were emphasizing the higher importance and the godliness of what they were. They were making what they were creating, and in the work of art, the same would be the case with interdimensional beings, who would also be observed Appearing out of nowhere and then disappearing into nowhere, as if by magic or a miracle, and and we see that in the artwork.

Laurie: 28:21

Yeah, sure do. And you have to wonder if Da Vinci and the other Renaissance masters didn't encounter such things themselves. Have you noticed, Joe, that even the artistic talents during that time are more advanced than anything before it? Is it because artists and architects back then were experimenting with techniques to draw objects to look three, three dimensional on flat canvases? Leonardo and Michelangelo are like the two greatest artists.

Laurie: 28:58

So could Da Vinci's birth have been planned or ordained by religious terms? You know, the Bible does have a verse that says I have called you from your mother's womb. Could this be an indication of the God's extra tristrials choosing certain people throughout our civilization to promote or further our advancements? You know, just like what I just said about Rendlesham Forest, for future exploration of humanity, for planetary advancement. But even Jesus is something similar. He said many are called but few are chosen.

Laurie: 29:43

So, and remember that, srinivasa Ramanujan, the Indian mathematician who had visions of mathematical calculations and solutions to problems thought to be unsolvable. He had little to no training, but his mother knew he was gifted, even claiming that a goddess visited her in a dream to prophesy about him, her son. So some of so, some of the designs that Da Vinci created and brought to perfection, you know, were the parachute, the helicopter, the armament tank, the automobile and the machine in general. So these ideas of, of is our, what inspired the thinkers and engineers of today.

Laurie: 30:34

The parachute was one of the inventions but was concocted hundreds of years before Leonardo da Vinci. It was concocted by a Moorish man named Armen Firmen in the mid- 800s and he was or also designed a thing called the ornacopter or horn, a hopper flying machine, but he he never built it. It kind of looks like a bird or a dragonfly or something, and the design was to have it flap its wings like like a bird and keep the the personal love. And then it became the helicopter. So, like we said about imaginations, they are wild and can think of anything. Think about how many fiction novels have been written that have taken our imaginations to other dimensions and worlds, love stories, adventures, thrillers, horrors, sci-fi dramas, comedic comedies, superheroes, and I mean the list was on and on.

Joe: 31:38

Think of stories or myths, like Icarus the Greek who wanted to fly to the gods and to the heavens with built wings. His imagination got the best of him for making for like most like we witnessed in the gods flying around and didn't understand our technology. So, Icarus thought the best thing he can coxie, can make to mimic it it was, you know, feathers from birds that he would pick up off the ground and put them all together, seal them together with wax. And being the son of an inventor Daelius was his father who was actually an inventor.

Joe: 32:17

Icarus sort of was in the mischief and was messing around with the stuff that his father was working on. He put these wings on and flew and actually, according to the story, he got to flap his arms and use these artificial wings to get him to fly so high that he got too close to the sun and, as the story goes, getting too close to the sun and melted the wax, the feathers all came apart and he had no more wings and now he's just a guy with some altitude in the air and he fell straight down... doesn't say how high it was, of course, but he goes straight down to the ocean, and that was the end of it. So, he I guess his mistake was flying on a hot day.

Laurie: 33:04

Yeah, since, since it was a myth and the story was orally passed down, could there have been more to how this invention was created and what other parts were used to make Icarus fly? Did he witness the god Hermes flying with wings on his feet? And so, you know, could these wings have been some form of technological glider, like you know we see in movies like Spider-Man flown by the Green Goblin, or like that of the flying feet devices in the Jupiter ascending movie with the Mila Kunis and Channing Tatum. The high tech we have seen in movies have been invented which first started as a, as a thought, as a thought, and it later became an idea and then it became a thing. You know, things like lightsabers and laser blasters, plasma shields and light speed spaceships well, eventually come to fruition.

Laurie: 34:04

So, with that said, you know we're actually going to be doing a series on this podcast soon, called, you know, the truth and the fiction series, and we will be picking about 10 movies or so and maybe some great books to discuss about how much truth is actually in each of the science fiction and books. But speaking of books, especially science- fiction ones, our book will be out very soon, that's right everyone. Joe and I wrote our first science- fiction novel, which is based on a lot of what we discuss here on this podcast.

Joe: 34:43

That's right. So we know that the ancient astronaut theory is very popular out there, so we wanted to do something that would turn the whole thing, the whole concept, into something we would say entertaining. We thought, why not make a novel and have it based on that and have ancient aliens as part of the storyline. So almost five years ago we started working on getting the idea together and writing it out to come up with a very in- depth book about how archaeologists dig up a spacecraft that has been buried in the desert for 4000 years, and from there the characters come to find that the history of the world is shrouded in more mystery than they've ever imagined, and that takes them on a rather exciting journey around the world... a Across the world as they go to some of the biblical lands where they partake on several adventures.

Laurie: 35:42

Yeah, it is sit in two parts actually, the first dealing with how extraterrestrials have been present in the distant past and have left their impression upon humanity in the form of the mythology and religion that had persisted into the modern times. The second part is really the main body of the story and that takes place in the year 1947, the same year as Roswell. So that gives you a little clue as to how it gets tied to the part about the ancient aliens and the title. The title is Battle Planet AD, Relic of the Gods. Joe and I put countless hours into this book project and we are definitely ready for this thing to be published and we are really excited about it, and we hope you are too.

Joe: 36:37

Yeah, we really have put a lot of time and spent a lot of hours and, like I said, almost five years really. Probably in the last year we were trying to get a publisher sort of retained and have it go through editing and we've been talking to our publisher. Actually, we're supposed to talk to him again probably after the Thanksgiving holiday, as we're finished now with editing and we're starting to page format it. So our project manager is telling us that we're on track to have the entire thing completed in a few more weeks and hopefully it'll be ready in time for Christmas and hopefully, I mean, it'll be a novel that you all enjoy. It's very entertaining and I'd say it's actually gripping. I think it's something that actually in a few of those chapters that I was going over, I thought you know, these actually kind of keep me on the seat of my pants. So hopefully.. hopefully, we'll be ready for Christmas.

Laurie: 37:38

Yeah, we will. We'll let everybody know, so please keep checking in for updates on our social media pages and wwwalientalkpodcastcom, and we have worked very hard on it indeed, and we want to share it with all of our listeners out there. You guys are what makes this podcast continue the way it does. And remember, the title of the book is Battle Planet AD, Relic of the Gods. We hope that all of you who decide to read it will love it and find it gripping, like Joe said.

Joe: 38:17

Yeah, sure thing. So anyway, that will do it for today. Next episode we're going to have our good friend from the UK on the show, Aaron Long from the Facebook page Ancient Astronaut Theory, which he sponsors and runs pretty regularly with updates and new material, new resources. He'll be our guest once again.

Laurie: 38:40

Yeah, that's right. We expect to have Aaron on the next time to share in our exploration of the Fallen 200, which will be about the Fallen Angels spoken about pretty profoundly in the book of Enoch and, of course, as you would expect, there were said to be 200 of them. So we're looking forward to that and to being with all of you again.

Joe: 39:03

Yes, we hope you enjoyed today's episode, and we hope that you have a Happy Thanksgiving for those of you celebrating the holiday this week. Until next time, be peaceful, stay safe and always ... stay curious.