The Fallen "200"

Embark on a journey into obscure and forgotten knowledge with your hosts, Joe Landry and Laurie Oldford, who along with special guest Aaron Long from the Ancient Astronaut Facebook page delve deep into the world of ancient texts and extraterrestrial beings. You'll be taken through the riveting tales of the enigmatic Enoch and the Fallen Angels called the Watchers, as we explore the sacred texts and question the traditional interpretations of divine power and godliness.

What if these fallen angels, said to be 200 in number, were just extraterrestrial beings misunderstood by our ancestors? As we navigate through the fascinating narrative of human encounters with these celestial beings, we challenge conventional beliefs and encourage you to view these age-old stories from a fresh perspective. From discussing the birth of the Nephilim, the hybrid offspring of the human and alien DNA, to the speculation of Enoch's divine manifestations, we leave no stone unturned. 

As we wrap up our discussion, we question the exclusion of the Book of Enoch from the Bible and ponder the possibility of these angels being ancient gods who were venerated by our ancestors. Could there be more to the depiction of God in the Bible? Are ancient myths reliable? We invite you to join us in this enthralling conversation, challenging your beliefs and expanding your understanding of these sacred narratives. 

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Transcript

Joe: 1:01

Hello everybody, thank you for joining us today on Alien Talk podcast, a program where we discuss all things about aliens and UFOs and where we always push the limit of our understanding. We are your host, joe Landry and Roy Offord, and we are here with you in the Christmas season. With the holidays approaching, it is always my favorite time of year, full of memories and full of nostalgia and full of stories. So welcome everyone.

Laurie: 1:27

Yes, welcome to the show. And you're right, Joe, there's definitely a lot of different things from different cultures that tie into the whole Christmas tradition. Really, even when we look at the central story to the holiday, which is the nativity, the incarnation of the Son of God through the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, we see that even that is a conglomeration of many different scriptural and doctrinal narratives. And while most people know the story of the nativity, most probably aren't aware of just how much the gospel narratives are historically inaccurate and just how much they are inconsistent.

Joe: 2:08

Yeah, that's right, the account of nativity really is a mystery. There is no textual evidence and existence by which we can deduce a firsthand eyewitness chronicle of what has actually happened, and so we're left with a lot of gaps. Nonetheless, the birth of Jesus of Nazareth is something that is believed by 2.2 billion people around the world to have truly happened exactly as it is told. So that makes you wonder, right, if something like the Star of Bethlehem, the Magi and the incarnation and the angelic hosts and the shepherds all of it is accepted on faith to have actually happened simply because it is mentioned in the Bible, then what if another astral occurrence was included in the Christian canon? We've asked this before. Would that, too, be believed by the same number of people? And the astral occurrence we're referring to is what is said to have taken place with the great grandfather of Noah, who was the prophet called Enoch.

Laurie: 3:03

Yeah, that's right. And today we have the special privilege to be joined once again by our good friend from over into UK, the guy who has starred in two movies, which is two more than you and I have starred in, Joe.

Joe: 3:18

That's right.

Laurie: 3:20

And who is a knowledgeable expert, and I call him an expert in the subjects of ancient aliens, and we are referring to none other than Aaron Long, who runs the Ancient Aliens Facebook page that engages over I think it's like over 51,000 followers now on the latest developments and discoveries pertaining to the ancient astronaut theory, and he runs that page really really well, and he is here with us to share some of his research into a subject that could truly shed light on a perplexing theological question about who the fallen angels were. They, of course, are mentioned throughout the Bible, yet their real story comes from the obscure and apocryphal book of Enoch, where they are distinguished as the fallen 200. And, aaron, it's great to join up with you again, bud, and to engage in another thought-provoking and insight podcast show right now. So welcome back.

Aaron: 4:28

It's an absolute honor to be back home with you guys. As I said in the post, you guys run one of the best podcasts like that. You're very humble, very welcoming and your knowledge as extensive, so I'm honored to be on.

Joe: 4:45

Well, thank you so much, and yeah, and we're really glad to have you back with us, but tell us real quick about your latest picture called Reboot. What's that about?

Aaron: 4:54

Yeah, so Reboot, followed by a character called Daniel. Daniel waits in the film. He lives a circular existence. He's just finished his festival run. We did exceptionally well, we did better than we ever dreamt of. It won best film in France. It's what altogether has won six awards and has been nominated three times. So we're extremely grateful for those accolades. And distribution is in process as we speak. So we're looking at a 2024 release, depending on distribution. So we're we're, we're like I said, we're waiting on the distribution side of things now, which can take a long, long time. I mean, people watch a film and they think, you know it came out last week. It could have been made two or three years ago, but people don't see that side that. It just sort of sit down and watch the film. But there's a lot that goes into the distribution side of things.

Joe: 5:52

Yeah, but that's that's incredible. That really is... congratulations Thanks guys Appreciate it, thank you.

Joe: 5:57

So we covered the book of Enoch and two parts last year around this time and, yes, the writing of it originates around the same time period of the story of Jesus and that is, you know, the Roman era. And, as it is, we do see quite a few scriptural connections between the two. You know the Bible and the Gospels and the book of Enoch, and it's important enough piece of literature that deserves to be thoroughly discussed, and we think that there is evidence found within it that strongly supports the notion of what sounds like extraterrestrial encounters from the distant past. But this theme of the fallen 200, who are better known as the watchers, is a little enigmatic vis-a-vis the belief in the devil and his demons. It's not a very large number, aaron, and when we think about the satanic legion of evil spirits, we've always been kind of taught to think of a tremendously vast number of them. We picture something from like the scene of the Lord of the Rings.

Joe: 6:53

Right, yeah, we've been taught that in Sunday school and in church homilies that we all have, you know, guardian angels too, for every person. So that gives us about 14 billion or more just for guardian angels. That doesn't include all the other angels that do other things. So you know, if Lucifer took a third of all the angels with him when he said that he rebelled against God, then that should give us something around 7 billion fallen angels. Just you know ballpark estimate. So this number of 200 really does fly in the face of the orthodox liturgy. That implies there's all a tremendous more number of angels and hence demons that exist. As it says, there are more than there are stars in the sky or grains of sand on the beach. So this 200 fallen angels means that there are, in my estimate, only 400 good angels up in Heaven, which is not very big number. So, Aaron, why does number 200?

Aaron: 7:51

Okay, yeah, so a perfect start. So, basically, during the time of Enoch, who was an extraordinary prophet, and then, just just before I get into that, let me just go on record to say, you know, the Bible coincidentally left out the book of Enoch, which is, you know, criminal. You know, enoch was, in my opinion, and it's my personal opinion, he was one of the most, if not the most important prophet that existed on this planet. And we're obviously going to get into that. You know, sort of in the show, later on down the line, in Enoch's tiny speaks of 200 fallen, fallen watchers. He called them the watchers and they descended onto Mount Hermon. These watchers were led by an angel named Senyaza and behind him was an angel called Azazel. And so all of these angels had, they basically made a pact on Mount Hermon and they decided to take wives for themselves, to defile themselves with, you know, with these earthly women.

Aaron: 8:58

And my first, my first question, would be the Enoch speaks of these quote unquote angels, yet they're having sexual intercourse with the women of earth. You know, you've got to ask yourself are these actually angels that we're talking about here? They've clearly got genitalia and they're clearly having sexual encounters with earthly women, which means they're physical beings. Senyaza, for example I won't go into the whole, 200s would be on air all night, but just to give you an example, Senyaza, you know, he taught the cast and spells and root cuttings. I've made a few notes here because they're very important.

Aaron: 9:43

Azazel taught men to make swords, shields and breastplates and metals of the earth, along with how to, you know, beautify the eyelids of women. So basically, he taught women how to apply makeup. And it was. It was again, quote unquote God that told these angels not to give humanity this knowledge because they're not ready as of yet. It was the 200 fallen angels that said well, we think they are ready and we're going to teach them the secrets of the Earth, astronomy, agriculture and all the rest of it... sciences. And that's where it came from. But the interesting thing is when these" allen angels, who I personally believe were just a rebellious band of visiting astronauts who had sex with these women. These are following the sexual encounters with these women from these, you know, quote unquote fallen angels, the women gave birth to the Nephilim, which were the joints of the earth, and we have references to this in, of course, you know in Genesis that the joints walked on the earth in those days and this was the offspring from the fallen angels and the women of earth.

Joe: 10:53

And just to specify, that is Genesis, chapter six, exactly yeah, where we talk about, in. Depending on which version you have, it might say giants, it might say sons of God is another interesting note for all your listeners out there.

Aaron: 11:12

When the women gave birth to these, we have to call them hybrid children, right, because something from the sky or some extra-thresholdal beings, namely the fallen angels, slash watchers. When they gave birth to these giants, these offspring, the navels of the women split wide open. It was an extremely painful birth for these women, and it was said that these giants took the toil of the men. So then they took the labor and toil of the earthen men in terms of building construction, etc. Perhaps these huge megalithic sites we see all over the world are attributed to these offspring, the giants naveling of the fallen angels.

Laurie: 11:58

So the Bible says that these beings lusted after these earth women. I think they, actually, I think maybe some of them did, but I believe that they fell in love and they had empathy for the human race and they knew how difficult it was going to be for the humans to make it on this planet, and that's why they decided to help them out and give them all of this knowledge, teach them how to have a better life or to make life easier on earth as they progress or as they evolve, so to speak. Right, so I think that when there's obviously compatible DNA, so this is where the whole let us make man in our image after our likeness comes into play. So these beings had compatible organic DNA that matched and they thought to themselves hey, let us take these females as wives. So they married these human females and they bore these children. So I don't believe they were giants as in taller than like. I know that the book of Enoch mentions somewhere that I think some of the giants were taller than the pyramid of Giza.

Aaron: 13:20

They measured in cubits, didn't they? Yeah?

Laurie: 13:22

Yeah, and I think that's a little bit. They're just giants, but they were bigger. They weren't. They were like you said, they were a hybrid. There were a hybrid species that were born human slash alien DNA, so a product of aliens and humans mating. That's exactly what they were. That's what in my opinion. But Enoch I mean he has mentioned the Genesis 5: 22- 23, and it says that he was 365 years old and that he walked with God and then he was not, for God took him away. So he is one of only two people who are said to have bypassed death.

Aaron: 14:06

Do you ever been a lawyer, though?

Laurie: 14:07

Right, yeah, and Elijah was the other one, you know, because they were taken away and while Jesus is said to have been brought back to life and ascended into heaven, he still experienced death. So, Enoch and Elijah did not. And in a way, these sound almost like what you would call abductions, with those two, with them being taken away from earth and and not even being seen again. And Joe and I, I think we, we mentioned that in Episode 55 with the secrets of Enoch, in the first part, that we did so. But, yeah, but we believe, to someone that asked us in a previous episode, you know, do we believe that? Like who? Do we believe the? The two witnesses are in the book of Revelation and I believe it's clearly states that it's Enoch and Elijah, because they didn't face death.

Joe: 15:02

Yeah, that's the apocryphal Gospel and Nicodemus where it identifies those two witnesses. So, it's not a great comment. We know to a lot of people the gospel and Nicodemus is kind of an obscure piece of literature that you know it's apocryphal was not included in the canon.

Aaron: 15:22

Yeah, you want me to go, guys, or?

Joe: 15:25

Please yeah, finish strong. Please.

Aaron: 15:29

Yeah, so you know I've, over the years I've gone into churches and I've wanted, I've spoke to priests about the book of Enoch and every time I've gone into speak to these priests, ministers etc. They seem to just want to brush the book of Enoch to the side. They don't want to talk about the book of Enoch. It seems to make them uncomfortable. And that's through all of my encounters with you know, for asking, from asking questions about the book of Enoch. I've made some really interesting notes, guys, if we have time to cover tonight, especially where Enoch ended up, where Enoch came back and left again and it is in black and white, is clear, is clearly extra-trustful contact.

Aaron: 16:15

Speaking about your guys, and you know I've run into a lot of people who say, well, you know the Bible and these holy texts, especially the book of Enoch, that they have nothing better to do, they had so much time on their hands, they just made these stories up. Well, I'm going to go on record here to say, guys, that Enoch wasn't making these stories up, because the more you read these books of Enoch, he speaks about the seasonal changes of the earth. He speaks about the earth from space. He speaks about the planet's procession, you know. So he got all this stuff spot on, so he must have been a really good storyteller to have got accurate knowledge about, you know, astronomy, agriculture, the earth going on.

Joe: 17:04

Yeah, now he actually the book of Enoch, is included in some canons, not Western Christianity, but the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Coptic Catholic Church. That's correct. They include that and really it's the book of Enoch and when we talk about that there's really more than one manuscript. It's sort of an anthology of a work from several scribes and actually there is what they call one Enoch and two Enoch and even three Enoch, and there's even a few others as well that are kind of just out there to are apocryphal and they're in different languages.

Joe: 18:12

The one that we're really talking about here is what's called the Ethiopian script. There is also the Slavic script, the Slavic Enoch. There's Ethiopian Enoch, which is the one we talk about as the Ethiopian Enoch, and that one dates to you know, the third to first centuries BC and you know it was. It was actually found among the Dead Sea Scrolls that the Slavic Enoch is more medieval. I think they believe that that one came a little more like in the Middle Ages, probably around the city of Prague. It has certain medieval themes and ideas impregnated in it. But in the Dead Sea Scrolls the Ethiopian version of Enoch is found and it goes from the second third century BC. And Aaron, how important do you think that is that you know the book of Enoch was discovered among the other manuscripts in the Dead Sea Scrolls?

Aaron: 19:10

Well, it's extremely important because you know straight away, you know, certain other texts that were found in the Dead Sea Scrolls were accepted, but the book of Enoch seems to get this backlash and seems to be brushed aside underneath the carpet. And you know, like I said, the more you read into this book, the more answers you get, and I mean when I say more answers you get. The way he tries to get his point across is as if Enoch's an intermediary between the good angels and the bad angels, so he's kind of being pulled in two directions here. And that leads me onto the note I've just just just made. If I can, if I can sort of say this, guys, it states in the books that Enoch goes after Azazel.

Aaron: 20:02

Let's not forget, azazel taught men to make swords, shields and breastplates and how to beautify eyelids of the women, so taught women how to apply makeup, like I've already stated. So Enoch goes after Azazel to tell him that their, their deeds are basically unforgivable. And then Azazel asks Enoch to write a petition to the most high for forgiveness. And Enoch approaches the most high. Whoever the most high is obviously being God, but you know Enoch's having interactions with them most of the time and it's not granted. So so God tells Enoch to go back to Azazel to tell him that his deeds are unforgivable and that the petition is not going to be granted. So here you can see that Enoch's being pulled in in in both directions. Enoch's trying to be the peacemaker, if you will, If you want me to go on, guys.

Laurie: 21:01

But, Joe, yeah, well, there is a, but I think you mentioned earlier that there's a few others, but there actually are many others in what is known as the pseudo graphic manuscripts from those centuries that are around the beginning of the Christian era.

Laurie: 21:21

Some are about Enoch and you know, such as the epistles of Enoch, the Book of the Watchers, the Book of the Jubilees, the Testament of the 12 patriarchs, but there's also others like the Book of Adam, the Book of Noah, the first and second estras, all of which are mostly fragmentary copies in various languages, yet they, they all seem to refer to the dawning of the New Age, and one that is told by signs in the in disguise. Now, to be clear, the name Enoch is indeed mentioned in Genesis, chapter five, like I said so, and again, he was 365 years old. But, joe, wasn't it like, wasn't there? Like five? It was found in five different languages, that that go from Ghis in Ethiopia to Aramaic and Palestine, to the Slavic and Central Europe, and there's different segments, and they all seem to have been written by these different individuals. At least five, actually, right?

Joe: 22:28

Yes, they come from the same source, tradition. So, yes, they span different languages from Ethiopia to Palestine and all the way to Eastern Europe, and it spans from like the third century BC to the Middle Ages. So now let's go back to the watchers here real quick. You know they're said to have descended on Mount Hermon, which is in modern day Lebanon, and I visited Israel many years ago and you can see it from northern Israel. I can run to see a galley. It's about 10,000 feet and elevation and, according to the Book of Enoch, this is where the watchers, the fallen angels, landed. So this is kind of describing an extraterrestrial encounter, because these beings or things whatever are coming down and landing on Mount Hermon. So it's a fascinating thing.

Joe: 23:21

So, aaron, when we talk about, you know, like these, they're said to be the sons of God okay, mating with daughters. That's how it's mentioned in Genesis and in chapter 106, where it says Enoch and his wife and grandson Lemech, they give birth to Noah. And when Noah is born okay, this is kind of bizarre is the baby has flesh as white as snow and red hair red as rose, long hair not actually cheeks are red. His hair is white as wool and his eyes were open, they'd illuminate everything like the sun. So this could be just metaphor, it could be, you know, an analogy or allegory, but the descriptions are alluding to, maybe, genetic color mutations. But, aaron, I mean we talk about, you know, these extraterrestrials that describe as the watchers. Do you think that they look more human? Or they must have looked pretty human-like in order for them to mate with humans, but they must have had something that really stuck out to make them look God-like. What do you think?

Aaron: 24:30

Yeah, no, exactly exactly, joe. And to add to that, it was said that the women couldn't resist these fallen angels when they came on to them, so to speak. So these women just couldn't resist these beings. It's clear as day that they look different from the everyday, joe, no pun intended. So yeah, the earthly people knew the difference between these visitors and you know earthly people, so to speak. And it's interesting as well that Enoch speaks of a vision where he's lifted up into the heavens, in which he's surrounded by quote unquote a spiritual Arabian and describes the walls which are made of crystal. It could be glass, you know. Enoch does specifically say that they're made of crystal and what he refers to as a mosaic of Hell's things, perhaps Enoch's terminology for the craft's interior decor again is all speculation. But we have to wonder what Enoch's speaking about here. And that's just the first encounter that he has with going up in the sky and encountering beings, quite possibly within a craft.

Joe: 25:54

But what about this sort of biological sameness? I mean, even though they, like you said, they were irresistible to women because, well, they were what to be called gods you know the lore of the gods they couldn't, they were irresistible. I'm sure they were very attractive, but aside from you know physical attraction, you know they must have still looked human. They couldn't have looked. So you know abnormal that you know their beauty would have been freakish. I mean, when we just think of like angels and how they're depicted, you know, as being so beautiful but yet having wings, do you think they didn't have anything like that kind of feature? They would have been just like they would look like humans, but extremely beautiful and extremely attractive and, like you said, irresistible.

Aaron: 26:43

Yeah, no, exactly. So you know, enoch does. I'm just because I've made notes here, just bear with me, guys but he does describe what they do look like. In chapter one, verse six, he, enoch, states that they there appear, two very large men, so big that I never saw such on earth, their faces shining like the sun, similar to Noah's birth. Here we're seeing, you know, reoccurring, reoccurring parents happening. Their eyes were like a burning light and from their lips fire was coming coming out. They were singing they're sorry, they were singing and their clothing was off, various coins in appearance. So Enoch's really giving you a detailed description here of what he's, what he's seeing at the end of his bed, that's, you know. Obviously he wasn't dreaming and their appearance was, so, yeah, the clothing, of various coins in appearance and was purple. So he states, the clothing was purple, their wings were brighter than gold and their hands wider than snow.

Laurie: 27:45

So. So, with that description you just gave from Enoch, that's actually that goes to show the DNA of these children, because that sounds a lot like the description given to Noah, exactly Right, the face, the bright face and the eyes of like fire or whatnot, that show, yeah, so well in Genesis six and one. I'm going to read that verse because it says it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born to them. It goes on with the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful and they took wise for themselves of all whom they chose.

Laurie: 28:33

So why is this whole passage meaningful, aaron? Like you know, why did they mate? You know what I mean. Like, like, like the scenario, part of the story at all like, why would they even mate? Was there another purpose other than they're beautiful? What do you think? Do you think they want? Do you think they wanted to, like you know, plant a seed, to plant it with their own seed, their own DNA, create another species? You know, are the almost sapiens that species? Are we a product of the mating of the, the ancient extra extraterrestrials? And, you know, are human females or the homo erectus female?

Aaron: 29:18

Yeah, so you just we're dry on my other to your list. So when we go back to the start again, we see that these angels are are ordered and it is an order from the most high to not meet with these earthly women or to give them knowledge. It was when they made that pact on Mount Hermon. To make a pact and to get yourself a wife and to teach humankind the advances in sciences, astronomy, agriculture, etc. Which I've probably gone into, is as if that they were.

Aaron: 29:52

They were obviously being being rebellious is like, for example, you know, sometimes you know if you're at work or you don't agree with what somebody states, you kind of not rebel. There's, there's, you know ways to debate, etc. But a lot of people will rebel and go the opposite direction, and is a very human instinct to have. So you know, if you're not agreeing with what somebody's telling you to do, you're going to do the opposite. Right, and is it is? Is is really comes down to something really simple that they didn't. They were fed up of taking orders, which is why they made that pact and become earthly in nature, if you will.

Laurie: 30:35

So so the so what? What I like about Enoch is that Enoch describes the source better than.

Laurie: 30:44

Genesis does. Because the Genesis? Yeah, because they said it calls them the sons of God and Genesis. But in Enoch it calls them he actually calls them the children of heaven. And and so we learn about the sons of God in a more comprehensive account in Enoch seven and one. Because and now I'm going to read that scripture and you'll see the difference, it's similar but you see it's different. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied. That in those days were born to them, beautiful and calmly, daughters, and the angels, the children of the heavens, saw and lusted after them and said to one another come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children. So that kind of sounds makes it sound like I'm answering my own question here about maybe they did want to see the planet. I think you're right.

Aaron: 31:42

I think they wanted earthly power. They, they, you know they were right again, fed up of taking orders and they wanted, you know, the planet for themselves. I know it sounds very sci-fi, but, you know, is what is very potential possibility. And there's also possible that these 200 fallen angels were the gods of Egypt and Mexico. They, you know they would have how would I say it? They, they would claim a territory in an area, you know, like you would have had Thoth in Egypt and you'd have had Cucucán in Mexico, and these 200 fallen angels could have been the, the old gods. Our ancient ancestors ended up worshiping it because they would have been gods then, because they would have been, they would have been capable of, you know, interstellar flight or, you know, space exploration.

Joe: 32:34

And what we're talking about here, I mean it can actually ties in somewhat the Christianity. So when we think about Lemek, he goes he's the father of his, his father is Mathusala and he says that Noah, okay you know was not human, but he was the offspring of angels of heaven.

Joe: 32:56

Now so in turn goes to his father, who was Enoch, and he tells them about this. And Enoch says to Matusola well, and it's oddly similar to what the angel tells Joseph and the gospel Matthew, chapter one, 20 to 22, which is basically do not be afraid to take the wife and child as his own, because the child will save the world. So here in the book of Enoch we find that this. There's that same theme of a woman being impregnated by one from heaven, the, you know, the incarnation, and only here it's, you know, in the Christianity it's a metaphysical theme, as it is in the gospel, or vice versa, and that by which Mary is believed to have conceived Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit, whereas that which by Lemek's wife, is said to have conceived Noah by a question board being not a spirit.

Aaron: 33:53

Yeah, no, exactly. And there's no identical story as well with Sophanine, the wife of Nour. She was said to have been sterile and had never had sexual intercourse with her you know partner Nour at this point and yet she became pregnant. He gave birth to a child after 282 days. So when he felt confused and disgusted by this and her husband Nour would become angry, as he hadn't you know, he hadn't had sex course, so so he's confused as to why she's pregnant, right? Um, it was eventually explained to them both by the Archangel Gabriel that it was a gift from God. So what are we to make of this Speaking about yet again artificial and some?

Laurie: 34:43

I mean the Enoch tells, tells him what the child is to be named, much like how the angel Joseph, or the angel tells Joseph what the child is to be named. And the stories are definitely not identical but they are similar in format and the reason behind that maybe, as you mentioned, is a prevalent theme in the minds of religious teachers back during that time period, which is the coming of the age of the Messiah. So someone is going to be born to save all of humanity from all the evil and terrible things that are going on in the world. Right, joe?

Joe: 35:20

Right, right. And so, we read about. You know, like this you know this theme is that God is a corporal entity, that he has body, and we see that as a problematic part of the theology is that in the New Testament, of course we have God, the Father, who is all spirit, and then of course the logos is the word of God made flesh. Yet you go into many parts of the Pentateuch. You know Genesis and Exodus, where God seems to have body. He walks in the garden and in the cool of the night he comes down to see the Tower of Babel. He approaches Abram and Abram recognizes him as the Lord is a guy walking. Jacob wrestles with him and the man's that he identify himself and he says I'm the Lord. So here he is, he's in a wrestling match with God and actually gets one up on him, actually pins him, and Yahweh or El, depending on the...I think it's El in the translation from Hebrew is that he touches Jacob's side and you know his leg is dislocated. So you get these kind of mishmash descriptions of God throughout the Bible.

Joe: 36:36

But you can't avoid this and I think you know many believers and, like you were saying, aaron, priests and pastors. They tried to sidestep this issue, like why is it saying God is walking in the garden? Why does it say he's coming down on a platform? Why does it say he's standing before somebody, when that kind of goes against what we believe about God? So I think that plays into this. This tradition an oral tradition that kind of is impregnated in theological thinking that God really does have body, but because he's so powerful, because he's so advanced, he was understood by the ancients as being more experienced. What do you think?

Aaron: 37:20

Yeah, well, again, another interesting aspect to this. Joe, enoch does describe God, or the most high, the Lord, whatever you want to refer him to to. When Enoch goes on to the let's call it a craft, because you know he describes doorways within this craft, he describes walls, he describes different kinds of light. When he meets the most high and he gets to that, I think it's the temp heaven. When he gets to the temp heaven, he finally meets the Lord. He is told I've made a note of this, just bear with me for two minutes. He isn't he the most high? States that Enoch has to change out of his earthly garments and to change into, like one of the tight fit garments that he gives him and to you know, he has to apply this appointment. What is very interesting at this point because Enoch is crazy, as mad as this might sound to your listeners, enoch is actually transforms into one of the angels and by the name of Metatron, sounds like something from a Hollywood movie. Yeah, he's transformed into Metatron and inherits everlasting life through his loyalty.

Joe: 38:46

So you know again, what can we make of this Enoch's yeah, it sounds like he putting on an ointment and putting on a suit that it sounds like astronaut. He's putting on a spacesuit, Right, Laurie?

Laurie: 39:02

Yeah, and I mean we could take that a step further and go more of a spiritual route to but not actually spiritual, but maybe a different realm thing or this whole conscious having a connection with the consciousness. You know where he becomes. He's no longer Enoch, but now he becomes Metatron, right, I believe that's the name, metatron, so you know. So is that where you know it's like an avatar? Did his consciousness leave the old body and go into this body of who he really is, which is Metatron? Maybe the consciousness that Enoch was in Metatron? Metatron was in Enoch. Now his true self is up there in the Southern realm or in the heavenly realms, so I don't know it's. It's a lot of mystery in the book of Enoch and when I first read it I was amazed because if you take the, if you look at it from a modern day perspective, when reading it it definitely sounds like a science fiction novel.

Joe: 40:07

Especially with the name Metatron. I mean that's like right out of the movie the Transformers.

Aaron: 40:14

Exactly, it's exactly my thought as well. I mean, yeah. In Chapter 22, Verse 8, Enoch states the Lord instructs the Archangel Michael to remove Enoch's earthly garment and anoint him with sweet ointment and puts him into the garment of his glory.

Joe: 40:33

So let's ask why do you think the book of Enoch is excluded from the canon? I mean, granted, there are some things that are very problematic to mainstream theology, yet it's there. It is present in the Scriptures. It is referred to even by Jesus when he talks about the time being that he saw Lucifer fall from the sky. He mentions that. I believe in the Gospel of Matthew, so it's also found in the book of Jude. It's found in Revelation. We talk about a third of the angels, the third of the stars. So there are tons of allusions to the book of Enoch, even that the name Enoch is found in the Bible, yet the book itself not there. You really think it's just because it's a theological problem or is there something deeper to it, why it's trying to? You know like Western Christianity is trying to hide it?

Aaron: 41:33

Yeah. So obviously, before I go on, I want to go on record to state you know, it doesn't matter what your personal belief is, I don't personally subscribe to any religion, but I respect all religion, if that makes sense. So I don't want to. Last thing I want to do is upset anybody and state the book of Enoch is the only right book. I'm not saying that at all.

Aaron: 41:53

I'm just intrigued by this book due to Enoch's extensive knowledge of astronomy, agriculture you know all the things I've gone into tonight. You know he was scientifically spot on. We've got enough time. There's a few things that I want to touch on, but Enoch does state that we're going through in the day and age today. If I could just add that in chapter two, in chapter 22, yeah, chapter, sorry, just bear with me something. I've made a few notes.

Aaron: 42:29

Chapter 36, verse one Enoch I get, this is the Lord speaking to Enoch. Enoch, I give you a period of 30 days to spend in your house, to tell your household there is no other God but me. Then in verse two he goes on to state that they may always keep my commandments and begin to read and absorb the books of your writing. And then obviously it goes on. And then the Lord says to Enoch that he has to go to his household to tell his family that he's not going to be returning to earth, that he's going to be staying with you know, staying with the angels and the Lord.

Aaron: 43:09

And it's interesting to note that, just like a modern day UFO encounter, when you have witnesses, let's just say for argument sake, fire in the sky with Travis Walkerton, which is probably the most credible UFO encounter of all time, where you guys live right Enoch has hundreds and hundreds of witnesses seeing him taken up on the wings of the angels. And it's interesting that Enoch's son, methuselah, awaits his dad's return, being Enoch, and he doesn't see his return, but he hears his return. So did they hear a craft send or a thunderous noise? It's just, I find, that all the Methuselah states that he heard in return but didn't say he saw in return, if that makes sense.

Laurie: 44:07

Yeah, so well, let's go back to the watchers then. So Lucifer and his demons being cast out of heaven and sin, lucifer, we believe, is either possibly Centennial, just over time got mistranslated and whatnot, and this is where we get the whole name Satan. And also from what? The Roman god, Saturn... maybe a connection there but the scribes and the rabbis?

Laurie: 44:43

Well, they sinned and then they were propagating throughout the universe after the fall of man, the original sin, and the scribes and rabbis, during this 400 to 500 year period, were actually almost obsessed with these spiritual themes, as was the idea that one would come to make everything right. It wasn't really a brand new idea, it's one that has always been around, but it seems that during the timeframe which is where the New Testament and the story of Jesus and the Messiah, that Jesus, the Son of God, comes from, that it was strongly revitalized and told by people in a new way. So the idea, of course, is based on earlier myths that were passed on from generation to generation over and over again. So, aaron, how reliable do you think these myths are when they tell of these incredible things from the past, vis-a-vis the possible connection to what they may really be stories about the ancient aliens?

Aaron: 45:51

Yeah, so you've got an Italian word called legenda, which means where the word legend comes from, and it basically means the further you go back, the better the translations would speak, and it basically means a core of truth. So I personally believe there is a core of truth to every ancient culture and their statements about the regarding gods, the sky, gods that descended from the skies, etc. To me, it didn't just sit round the fire and made all this stuff up. When he describes traversing the planet with aliens such as Doreal, raphael and others who show him different species, landmasses, he describes in great detail that the measurements of the earth. You just can't make this stuff up. Something significant happened.

Joe: 46:49

Yeah, I concur with that. I mean, the myths may not have literal truth, but there's got to be figurative truth, symbolic truth, even if it is in the form of metaphor and allegory. It's explaining something that people back then were experiencing and they couldn't put into the words that we would today, because they didn't understand science and the processes of weather and astronomy and earthquakes. They didn't really have a conception of what that was. So to them it was magic, it was miracles, the gods. So that's how they would write about it as being from the gods and being spiritual.

Laurie: 47:34

But that's because.

Laurie: 47:35

So back then they didn't come across as extraterrestrials because they didn't have a word for extraterrestrial, they didn't know what extraterrestrial was, or just really attractive guys, like they said earlier, like from a fashion magazine or something I don't know it's. Something else to consider is that these angels are depicted as having wings, and if an angel is a spirit and I always ask this, why would it need to have wings to keep it aloft? Like what's the purpose of a spirit having wings? And the answer is they don't need wings because but they did fly around and because ancient humans didn't comprehend the concept of an alien or the concept of flight and technology and they could not provide the technical language needed to explain it, they illustrated angels as being able to fly by having wings. Like they associated the wings with the angels or with these beings. And so think about it wings make physical objects fly in the air, and angels shouldn't need wings to fly. So if they are spirits, they don't need to follow the laws of aerodynamics in order to move around above our heads.

Aaron: 48:50

Right, exactly, laurie, and I mean, you know, to add to that, in chapter 67 and verse one, the prophet Enoch talked with people. On the 30th day, the Lord sent out darkness and get this on onto the earth surrounding and this is the key, the key point the darkness only surrounded those who were with Enoch. Enoch was then taken up to the highest heaven. So if a craft descended onto the earth where Enoch was stood with, like I said, went back to the modern day UFO, and the Enoch had witnesses there being his family, the darkness of the craft, the shadow of the craft, would have only covered those you know, enoch, as they were in the process of taking it.

Joe: 49:43

So without I'll go ahead, Laurie.

Laurie: 49:46

No, it's got to. I just tell you if you want to add anything to that Joe.

Joe: 49:50

Well, it's going to say, you know, without reading the book of Enoch, because it's excluded from the canon, you know we don't get the elaboration of some of the themes that are in the scriptures. You know we talked about the illusion given by John the Evangelist in Revelation 12.4, you know, talking about a third of the angels, the third of the stars in heaven, being thrown to the earth by the dragon's tail. You know we're talking about this fall in 200 here, these watchers, and that's kind of what it's all about here is, you know that is the theme of extraterrestrials coming to earth and essentially altering human history. To the point is, it is what we have is through our religious traditions. And if these sons of heaven are the fallen ones, then they could be the same ones who are referenced in the third, who fell with Lucifer, meaning the morning star from Isaiah 14:12. And without the book of Enoch as part of the Bible, it really is a big gaping hole in Judeo-Christian theology and it leaves the believer to wonder about the source for some of these concepts.

Joe: 50:52

I know I always wondered about the source. You know, like the war in heaven, you know, where did that come from? Where does that imagery come from. You know at some point in the past that it's said to have happened. Well, how did? How does it describe where we get information? Well, it's just coming to us from storytelling. Well, it's actually you know what we're saying coming from the book of Enoch. So, aaron, you agree that this could be like why it's excluded from the Western Bible? Because it is describing ancient astronauts?

Aaron: 51:22

Yeah, I'm truly, you know, I truly truly believe that it's been excluded by the church. And mankind has, as I'm going to go on record say, has manipulated these texts, you know, for their own games. The book of Enoch is just way, way too revealing, you know, he left no stone unturned. He literally told all I mean. And it's interesting that you say that these 200 born angels of shape, where we are today. And Enoch, again in chapter 80, validates that joke because he says in the days of the synergy, years shall be shortened, their seed shall be torrid on their lands and fields and all things on earth shall alter and shall not appear in their time. And we're seeing in this day that the seasons are changing. The earth's getting warmer, you know, like in England, for example, to me the winters just aren't as cold as they used to be. You know, certain trees are still in season when they shouldn't be and plants are growing when they shouldn't be. So we are seeing major major changes on this earth, as the United States in chapter 80.

Joe: 52:42

Right and those changes were happening even in the time that Enoch was writing, or the people who described to wrote the manuscripts Of Enoch. They were experiencing those same changes in the world and changes in the heavens. They noticed that there was a shift in the earth's access with reference to the zodiac there was. The changing of the zodiac right now is actually based on the way it was back in the Middle Ages, with the. March being in the Cessian Pisces. Well, it's actually in the Cessian Aquarius.

Aaron: 53:18

Exactly, we are in IA.

Joe: 53:19

Right. So it's shifted. At one time before that it was in the sign of Aries I should say Aries the Ram and then before that it was the bulls. They noticed these things. They noticed, like you said, the change of seasons. So there's a lot to this. I mean, there is just a lot to the study of mythology and the study of religion and the things that brought us to the beliefs and the teachings and the dogmas that we have today.

Joe: 53:46

Ultimately, you, the audience, must decide. So that is where we'll leave it today and with the holiday season, lori and I are going to take a bit of a hiatus. So this will be our last podcast episode for the year. Our next one will probably come sometime between the eighth and the 15th of January, and we're looking on a good lineup for 2024, starting with the Varghyna UFO incident in Brazil. This was a report from 1996 in which a disc shaped object was seen in the sky and then strange creatures soon afterwards were noticed walking around and sort of Brazil's version of an incident that is like the one that happened in Las Vegas, nevada, earlier this year. If you recall, we covered that one, in which a big, bright light was seen over the city and then police responded to a report of a large sized alien being in someone's backyard.

Laurie: 54:47

Yeah, sorry, hello Lori, sorry.

Aaron: 54:51

Oh yeah.

Laurie: 54:52

Anything to say, aaron.

Aaron: 54:55

Yeah Well, first and foremost, I want to thank you guys for having me back on.

Aaron: 55:00

It was an absolute pleasure. The conversation, you know, the conversation back and forth with you guys is just phenomenal. I hope the listeners like that, you know, feel that chemistry as well. And they, they, they took away a lot from this episode and hopefully, if you haven't read the book of Enoch or should I say the books of Enoch, you know, go out and seek them out. They're not an easy read. They are, they're deep, they're. They're just not an easy read. But you just put it bang, come back to it, you know, another day and you know there are lots of taking.

Laurie: 55:39

Yeah Well, thank you for joining us today, Aaron. It's always a honor and a privilege to have you in our company. Best of luck to you with the movies. Thank you, sir. Everyone, please check out the Aaron Long's pictures the. Was it the? The reboot? And yes, was it the match?

Aaron: 55:59

It's a match that or the last one on IMDB. They've linked a film to my credit called it's a Match I have no idea what that film is.

Laurie: 56:10

So the last road and the reboot, and reboot yeah. Right. So be sure to stream them or download them, and so. But happy holidays to you and a successful and prosperous New Year yeah.

Aaron: 56:23

And a piece of love and prosperity to you guys. I hope you have a great Christmas.

Joe: 56:27

Thank you for joining us. You provide what's really a wealth of information and insight into this, this fascinating subject of the fallen 200 angels from the book of Enoch and I'm sure there are many folks out there who have never even heard about this literary tradition, and your research into it has been invaluable to us here on the show. So, yeah, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. We look forward to more discussions with you in the future, and we want to wish you and your family and friends over there a Merry Christmas, or Happy Christmas, as is the British custom to say. Either way, we hope you have a joyous holiday season and a prosperous New Year.

Aaron: 57:05

Yeah, and peace, love and prosperity to all your listeners and I hope you have a great Christmas and just stay safe.

Joe: 57:12

Thank you and happy holidays to everyone, all of you out there. Thank you for taking the time to join us and Aaron on the show today. We wish all of you a joyous holiday season, stay safe, stay festive and always stay curious.