Spirits and Alien Life: A Cosmic Duality

Have you ever stood under the night sky and felt a chilling sense of the vast unknown staring back at you? Prepare to step into that vastness as we welcome Stephen and Leslie Shaw, whose book Who They Are and What They Are Up To unravels the perplexing tapestry of human and extraterrestrial interaction. Their unique blend of archaeology, human evolution, and Eastern spirituality illuminates ancient encounters with the unknown. 

Stephen and Leslie share their compelling insights on the theoretical realms of interdimensional travel and spiritual encounters, as well as consider the possibilities that extraterrestrial intelligence has steered our evolution and our history on this planet. This episode is not simply a conversation; it's an expedition where we marvel at humanity's past and ponder its future.

"Space Journey" by Geoff Harvey
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Transcript

Joe: 1:01

Hello everybody, thank you for joining us on Alien Talk podcast. This is the show where we discuss all things about aliens and UFOs and, as always, we'll be pushing the limits of our understanding. We are your inquisitive and truth-seeking host, joe Landry and Roy Ulford, and we appreciate all of you tuning in for a very special episode that we're airing today. Isn't that right, laurie?

Laurie: 1:21

Yeah, you're absolutely right, joe. We've talked before about the abduction phenomenon and some apostasis of interdimensional travel, and part of what is behind those ideas is that entities that are from other worlds, and we as human beings as well, may actually have the capacity to travel through space and time by the way of going across other dimensions. If this is so, then could movement be accomplished via interdimensional portals, like some device along the lines of a stargate, much like what we've seen depicted in some famous sci-fi movies? And if such technology does exist somewhere, then it could be possible to make an almost instantaneous connection between the two points in the cosmos that are separated by a linear distance of like millions of light years or even more. Or maybe they're not traveling distances that are as far as we think, perhaps they're coming from somewhere closer than we would expect them to.

Joe: 2:28

Right. Such notions have been worked out through mathematical models to show that the space time continuum could be worked from gravitational dilation so as the act as what you would think of as shortcuts in which matter or energy can instantaneously traverse from one point to another without physically covering the space and time that is between them. And we're all familiar with this concept from what has been popularly discussed among theoretical physicists as black holes or wormholes. We've all heard about that. So could the stories of abductions and telepathy and teleportation be in some way the result of entities traversing the universe or by communicating across distances in ways that are incomprehensible to us, at least at this time? What are some of the explanations as to why people disappear through what are said to be abductions or may receive, say, special insight or even psychic ability? Could all this be part of what has been termed as an extraterrestrial agenda?

Laurie: 3:28

Well, I think our guests today may help us understand those questions a little better than Joe. So to all of our listeners out there, we are pleased to welcome on to Alien Talk Podcast Stephen and Liz LeShaw, a husband and wife ufology research team, who have written a book titled Who Are They and What Are They Up To?

Leslie: 3:49

It's actually I'm sorry to interrupt it's Who They Are and What T hey A re Up To, by Leslie and Stephen Shaw.

Laurie: 3:56

Who They Are and What They Are Up To.

Joe: 3:58

Okay, thank you for clarifying that.

Laurie: 4:01

And while they join us to share their knowledge from having examined the accounts of modern-day UFO sightings and abductions, and also from analyzing them, using what they both have learned from archaeology and human evolution, and even the teachings of Eastern religion, their endeavor is to help all of us better understand humanity's long history of possible alien encounters, going all the way back to biblical times. So, stephen and Leslie, welcome to the show. It is truly an honor to have you here with us.

Leslie: 4:30

Thank you so much for having me.

Joe: 4:31

Thank you. Yeah really great to have you here, stephen and Leslie. So you guys come from a background that is pretty well-rooted in academia. You both have a proclivity for the arts. Stephen, you're a six-year veteran of the Navy. You're serviced. By the way, I did 20 years in the Air Force. I'm sure you won't hold that against me.

Leslie: 4:53

A career man, not that one.

Stephen: 4:54

Of course not, of course not. I scored 93 on the ASVAB, so I could have done an Air Force too, but I wanted to be a CB.

Leslie: 5:02

He was a cabinet maker at the time and wanted to be a builder, you know.

Stephen: 5:06

Yeah, so that was my choice.

Joe: 5:08

Well, I always thought the Navy was really cool and I almost did join them way back in the day.

Leslie: 5:14

Thank you for your service, oh thank you.

Joe: 5:16

Thank you, I appreciate that, and it looks like you studied geology and Chinese medicine and that you are a licensed as an acupuncturist.

Stephen: 5:23

I was, yes.

Joe: 5:25

You were. Okay, and Leslie looks like you were a newspaper journalist for 18 years.

Leslie: 5:30

Yes, I still work for the newspaper but I do very little reporting. I'm part-time and I do copy editing and page layout once in a while a story. But yes, I'm mostly the writer in the family so I did kind of the heavy lifting of the writing part of the book. But Stephen, he wrote his personal family history part in the book and he also helped me a great deal with the research.

Leslie: 5:54

Yes, he's got a lot better of a science background in college than I do and there was geology stuff to papers to read and medical science journals to read and I needed a lot of help with that.

Joe: 6:09

Well, it looks like you studied art and history at El Camino College and yes, I studied ancient art history and that was very helpful to our research. And you also studied at California Institute of the Arts.

Leslie: 6:21

Yes, and you earned a. I have an animation degree from there.

Joe: 6:24

Right, I was going to say you earned a bachelor's degree in experimental animation, is that right? Yes, among other things, of course, you're both very active in your careers and your intellectual and artistic and even musical pursuits, it seems.

Leslie: 6:38

His name is currently a orchestral musician now.

Stephen: 6:41

Yes, yes, I'm the accordionist for the J Phil Philharmonic of Joshua Tree and I've been a musician for the best majority of my life woodwinds and piano and accordion and a guitar and written a lot of stuff. But I was a Tai Chi teacher for a good 23 years and I found that to be a very important aspect to actually what really has influenced what we've actually experienced ourselves together too. Yes, I would highly recommend people doing Tai Chi to slow down the brain waves, to like an alpha state. I think it's very important to what we're going to talk about tonight.

Joe: 7:23

Very good, we see that you're also very much into science fiction.

Leslie: 7:28

Yeah, we'd love it.

Joe: 7:29

That's probably our favorite genre as well. You have taken a deep interest in ufology, particularly with the abduction phenomena and the missing time experience. It seems that these interests have inspired you to write your book. I know you talked about it a little bit already, but please give us a quick rundown of the book. What is it about?

Leslie: 7:49

That's true. Our book was inspired by our personal experiences, but then it goes on further to delve into the research we did as to who are flying the UFOs in our skies and what they're up to like. The book promises and that information to give. But Stephen's experience started about three years old, right there.

Stephen: 8:13

Yes, I grew up in a family that was post World War II England. That grew up in my parents' group in Manchester and Oldham, which is in northern England, the second most bombed part of England during World War II, and there were children, so they were very well aware of the whole thing, with the black outs and the brown outs and very no-nonsense people. So anyway, I was born here in the United States in 1960. And at the age of three I started to experience this little entity that would wake me up in the middle of the night and would be jumping on my chest and my stomach and just to kind of in a playful manner, not in a menacing or scary manner at all, but it just was jumping there and I thought at first it was the cat or the dog and it was not a cat or a dog, and it happened on multiple occasions.

Leslie: 9:01

And it was invisible.

Stephen: 9:02

It was invisible, so it was fast forwarding a few years. Also, to give some background here too, my family has had this interaction with this entity called O'Glegly, that is, this family protector, or we call it a spirit guide that would show up and appear to certain people at different times, either of distress in their life, or to help them, or maybe even to save their lives. So, I grew up in a British family that you know. If I was telling this to my friends, they think I was like living in a haunted house.

Leslie: 9:38

And they were very psychic bunch all of them.

Stephen: 9:41

Yeah. Three generations of automatic writers and yeah, my mom, my mom told me and I actually saw her automatic writing and her mother and her mother's sister, and then my great grandparents also too, from Germany.

Leslie: 9:56

She would go into trance and just these words would just spill out of her hand.

Stephen: 10:00

And things that she couldn't know it's you know. For instance, she knew when her, when her mother died in England in 1969, she picked me up from school one afternoon and she was sobbing and I said, mommy, what's wrong? And she said my mother just died. Well, did you get a call? I said no, I I did automatic writing and I found out O'Glegly contacted me and told me so. About two days later my dad didn't know. My dad said Are you sure, irene? You know, but it looks we hadn't heard anything.

Leslie: 10:33

And then official word.

Stephen: 10:34

The official word comes through and the same thing happened to about 10 years later but nine years later actually, when my grandfather died and a couple years later, with Uncle Clifford, the same thing.

Leslie: 10:46

She got getting these messages that so and so is dead, and then, sure enough, word would arrive from England later it was, it was.

Stephen: 10:53

It was the thing that it was kind of trance like. It was kind of little strange to watch. But and I know that my, my, my grand, my grandmother, she wrote in a couple different languages and one was like an Arabic language and it was. It was a very strange thing. So it's always kind of stuff that you know growing up in the 60s and 70s. It's stuff you don't really Share with your friends because they would think that you're a little weird or that you're lying, or that you're living in a haunted house or but it was in the family, yeah, so it's just drugged it off.

Leslie: 11:28

But every time some of us are happened they would just drug it off as a family mystery again.

Stephen: 11:33

So, yes, so. So about the age of nine. I was sleeping at that time in my life in a bunk bed. On the top, my brother was three, because he's six years. He was six years younger than me and I was awakened by this strange sound and I thought, well, that's not the dog. And this is again the middle of the night. And I thought, well, that's not the dog. Where's the dog? So I started walking down the hallway and my heart was pounding and I I remember my eyes dilating and my respiration being elevated.

Leslie: 12:03

So I was terrified.

Stephen: 12:05

I was definitely awake and I was literally Scared about what I was gonna see and you were as well, I was a child. I was nine years old Nine or ten, okay, don't, don't quote me on that, but I was at least nine. And I'm about to turn the corner to going to the living room and I just go black.

Leslie: 12:23

And that's a recurring thing with the family. They'd see something bizarre and then they'd have this blackout period after, or lack of memory of what happened.

Stephen: 12:33

Well, yeah, exactly, but for me. Then, then, a couple hours later, several hours later, whatever it was I, I was back in my bed, all tucked in, and somehow, you know, I was put back in bed. Now, when my brother turned about five or six say about six, I think, believe. I think, I believe from the age of six to eight, he started sleeping in our closet, in our room, and I asked Philip. I said, philip, why are you sleeping in the closet? Said one. I'm afraid of the little men that come in the middle of the night. They scare me, and the only reason why I believe them at all is because I had a vague memory when I was younger of Seeing these little men that that one time were entering the room. They were kind of shimmery and they literally looked almost like garden gnomes and this, this shimmery thing.

Leslie: 13:25

It seems to be a trait of memory tampering.

Joe: 13:30

Let me just clarify real quick. So these entities you are talking about now, are not the same as a O"glegly right? No, oh, glegly's totally different.

Leslie: 13:38

Well, we don't know for a fact and I think, O'glegly may have been a gray alien this whole time.

Stephen: 13:43

You know, yeah, well, we'll get, we'll get, we'll get to that.

Leslie: 13:47

Yeah, but Philip, when he was 16 he had a cluster of incidents happen to him. Yeah, different house. The phenomenon definitely follows the family to different houses.

Laurie: 14:01

There's a lot, of, a lot of what you're talking about. I seem to have some of that stuff in my family too. Yeah, and it's, but you know the. So, leslie, I'm gonna after this. I want you to answer first and then, steven, you can follow up after a Leslie answers. But you know, the interest in the in the old UFO and the belief in the extraterrestrial intelligence has really become something of a cultural phenomenon now in the past 50 years and I mean it's always been with us. But you know, we find quite a bit of evidence that people have been seeing things in the sky and experiencing things like abductions for a very long time now. And so, what kind of activity do you think is happening now in this day and age that may not have been, say, just say about a hundred or hundreds of thousands of years ago. So, there you go.

Leslie: 14:53

Yeah, okay, when we started researching the phenomenon of abduction, we first discovered that theory and fact were not in alignment at all. The theory was that aliens were just Curious about us and then take a cross-section of samples from all different branches of humanity, but of course that wasn't what was happening at all. What they were doing is taking the same person again and again and again through their lives, then start taking their children and grandchildren, so the phenomenon to me started to appear more like a harvesting of a needed product, then it was of any particular. They found a DNA strain they like and then they continue to prey on that For our multiple generations.

Leslie: 16:14

And we think that might be what was happening with Stevens family, since he started so young for him and in his family had had this bizarre your guide I guess is the word for it spirit guide with them for a very long time and it made me wonder if they had been preyed upon this way to for many years. I'm sorry, does that answer your question?

Joe: 16:40

Yeah, I mean, I think that. So you're saying that they do select certain people, not not everybody. I mean, I'm gonna say myself I have never, I've never even seen a UFO and I, you know, lori, I know you've seen them before and you've I think you've even mentioned you've had an encounter similar to what Steven was saying with that entity in your room when you were. He called it the hag. Is that? What is that right, lori?

Laurie: 17:04

Yeah, up in Canada, we think it's around the world that you had that whole the old hag that comes into the room. It's like you're in that dimension between being awake and asleep, but it's everything around you is almost like the myth of the sick sake bus and the incubus.

Leslie: 17:21

Yeah, yes, this is an incubus and vampire mythos are tied to the alien abduction phenomenon. We believe there are never.

Joe: 17:30

I've never seen a UFO. I've never had any kind of paranormal occurrence. I'm obviously very interested in People who have had it and experiences where I've seen UFOs, but personally I have never Seen a UFO.

Leslie: 17:44

I was like when I saw my first year was like well though, so that was in 2005, so why do they only see in my life, and I was. I'm 64 years old, so it may still be in your future there, joe.

Joe: 17:58

He doesn't, may they. They haven't, I mean they. You're saying that they select certain people, not others. What?

Stephen: 18:03

production. Yes for the abduction.

Leslie: 18:07

Well, I think it's because they're after a specific type of DNA and, in our theory, these this, the creatures flying the ships in our airspace are actually branches of humanity. They've split off from us thousands of years ago. It explains why they're seen in our airspace so often. They're still here with us in our solar system, sometimes launching from bases on Mars or on the moon or on mother ships in the space, and also out of underground Cavern cities that are under our feet. We see here a lot of reports of UFOs coming up out of lakes, out of mountains, out of late the ocean, up out of ridges and Volcanoes and out of the science.

Stephen: 18:53

And the other thing we start, yeah, other thing we started to recognize was their behavior pattern, especially as you start looking like roundabout toward the end of World War two, when everybody, you know that the Japanese, the Americans, the Brits, the Germans, they were all seeing food fighters and they were thinking it was the other side, they thought it was some kind of secret weapon. Okay, and then of course, then you know we do Nagasaki and Hiroshima, because a good old Oppenheimer and it's a couple other people and then they suddenly became very interested.

Stephen: 19:29

Yes, we were doing after that?

Leslie: 19:30

Yes, you know. I think it's a further evidence that they live here with us on the planet, because you know a Spacefaring race from a distant star system? They would probably care, maybe, that we were about to blow ourselves up with nuclear weapons. But this is, this is beyond that kind of what I'm the breeding program, yeah it's. It's like they're dogging our military everywhere they're go at every maneuver they take. They they're monitoring our nuclear bases and our nuclear weapons facilities and all of our nuclear.

Stephen: 20:06

And this is the courting according on the military base ships and this is according to the recent disclosure those past summer right with greats and grush and the other guy.

Laurie: 20:18

Yeah, we know that there's been. There's been videos too that we've seen of rocket launches and there was just, you know, this spear type thing, just traveling, surveying around and out the rocket and.

Leslie: 20:32

Yeah.

Laurie: 20:33

So yeah, and the end of them out.

Leslie: 20:35

Skin in the game there.

Stephen: 20:36

Yeah, exactly, that's a good way of putting it, leslie. They have skin in the game from the standpoint of they. They don't like the fact that we are basically children playing around with things that we should not be playing around with, because we can destroy the whole world. We could we could basically blow ourselves up and really ruin things for them too.

Laurie: 20:55

Right, hey, put that down.

Stephen: 20:56

Yeah, exactly, you know, you don't don't play with that knife. You don't know where that knife has been, you know.

Leslie: 21:03

And I know it sounds odd, but I think this is actually a much more likely than that. There's a a bunch of Different races coming from all different star systems who just happen to be bipedal hominids and, you know, walk a perfectly upright, just like we do. And the Nordics are indistinguishable from Swedes, from Swedish humans, and A lot of times when there's interactions with these people under the ground, they're they're human. Of Admiral Byrd, when he met with the Ariani under the ice sheet in Antarctica 1947, in 47, he said there were men, and when the valiant Thor came to visit the White House on the Pentagon for three years, he was a Caucasian red-haired man. You know, I think we're dealing with cousins rather than aliens.

Leslie: 21:52

It's much more likely and that's why they maybe are taking us. One thing we found with the the abduction phenomenon, is that it's primarily a Caucasian phenomenon about 95% ish.

Leslie: 22:07

According to something like Linda Moulton Hounds and this other study I found that their abductees are About 95% Caucasian and the a smattering of others make up the rest of the 5%. It seems to me that maybe they have been underground for too long and their race has perhaps become non viable and that's why they need so much DNA and why Caucasian. They just happen to be a branch of the Caucasian race from way way back, so we're just. We just happen to be a better match for what they need. And then they fought sorry.

Joe: 22:44

I'm sure you may have been asked this before, but you know, is what you're saying in terms of this? Is it similar to what people would call you know religious or spiritual experiences? You know, when people say they've encountered aberrations like angels or the Virgin Mary or saints?

Stephen: 23:01

It's a similar for the same thing. It's a it's I, I think, for some people. It's a variation. I've had certain things happen to me in my life, or two or three different times where I really should have been dead, where what happened was basically my life was saved by I call like a gardenate guardian angel or or some sort of entity that.

Stephen: 23:26

The ones that happens me were really before we even started even thinking about writing the book, and I had to look back on the things that happened. That just did not make any sense. And Also, to piggyback upon this, the vast, vast majority of these Encounters that I've had and experiences had nothing to do with any, any like mushrooms or mind altering.

Stephen: 23:51

Yeah, he was like in fact, even even I was. I was actually a virgin until I was 21 In all ways believe it or not, the American male, you know but you know what I was. I was into Tai Chi. I was into Paramahansh Yogananda. I was, I was. I was basically into my music. I was, I was not. It just didn't cross my mind and do things like that.

Leslie: 24:14

And somebody is extra pure or an extra good shape in a given family. We think they may be the primary target for the, the DNA extraction thereafter, dna that isn't.

Stephen: 24:27

I.

Leslie: 24:28

Know bourbon.

Joe: 24:31

You're in terms of character, or is there some kind of biological trait that?

Leslie: 24:36

I think you know.

Joe: 24:38

In.

Stephen: 24:38

Chinese medicine. In Chinese medicine, which I was an acupuncturist and Chinese medical doctor for 20 years, we call it Jing. The term is Jing or Jing and the young, if you have very powerful Jing and yang, which I did develop when I was practicing Tai Chi. All the time I've been, I've been able to project she energy and I've been hit by Chi energy. So I know these two things, that the teachings are absolutely real, and I think that if you have let's say we have, like, let's say, a prize horse or something like that or something like that that's got, like you know, a secretariat or something like that, you're gonna pay more attention to a secretariat or a sea biscuit than somebody that's already been doing, let's say, cocaine, since there were 16 years of age basically there.

Stephen: 25:26

Energy's basically been weakened. So I already came from a very psychic, very spiritual oriented family, so I came from a Strong in that way. But I also kept myself pure, either by by choice and basically by choice, and and so I think that there is there is a connection there that is both both of physical interests plus also Psychic or spiritual interest use the psychic or spiritual aspect to this whole thing phenomenon because, you know, we, as we started studying this for ourselves, we started doing Kundalini raising, chakra buzzing.

Leslie: 26:06

you know practices of meditation with teachers, under the guidance of teachers, and we we started astral projecting Regularly. In my case, astral projection was fun, it was no problem. I had a good time doing it, but it seemed like whenever, in Steve's case, whenever the veil would come down between the other worlds, these beings that are kind of harassing him are just on the other side waiting to to bother him. It's for him. The astral projection was never any fun.

Stephen: 26:35

They well, I asked the time, it wasn't fun. Yes, sometimes it was fun.

Leslie: 26:39

It outweighed the, the bads outweighed the good. So so so.

Laurie: 26:43

Right. So then, since we're got on the topic there of spirituality and that sort of thing because we mentioned you guys mentioned before that they choose who they contact and all and you know is this something that they do at random or is it like a preplanned thing that happens before someone is born? You know, it's much like that Bible verse that says I have called you from your mother's womb. Could a statement like that be connected with how some people are chosen, because even Jesus said many are called but few are chosen? Is it only a certain few experience these things? I know you mentioned something about it earlier, but, yeah, I see that type of spiritual connection, but is it really a spiritual connection or is it just some type of higher plane or another dimension that's crossing over, and Can you explain that?

Stephen: 27:29

Yeah, I have two things that I vividly remember from, one at the age of three and one about the age of about seven, when I was three. I remember vividly being in Shadow Ranch Park, which is in Kenoga Park, and I was. It was, it was a nice spring day and I was playing by myself in the sand by the big Concrete tortoise and there are a bunch of other kids are playing by themselves. I was always kind of a bit of a loner and I remember very, very vividly thinking to myself oh no, I've got to go through this again. Remember, I'm three years old, okay, I'm thinking things like you know, like a philosopher.

Stephen: 28:11

When I'm Feeling now and I was about seven years old, after I'd come back from England, I was playing with the hose in the backyard and I was like just making some leaves float by, you know, by using the hose, as you know, no, as you know, the the way to spray the leaves and make them like float. And I remember thinking to myself very, very vividly that it's easier for man to destroy than it is for a man to create. These are thoughts I'm thinking when I'm, you know, like three and seven years old. So let's unite, both believe in reincarnation. To start with this, let you know right there, right there, that we've been here before. So if you're talking about possibly being chosen, then I cannot discount that at all.

Leslie: 28:57

I think in Steven's case he's he's like the fourth generation of being With, of they're showing their, they're showing interest in the family. Well, he was earmarked for it, for sure.

Joe: 29:10

Are these entities of the physical? We're talking like an exoterrestrial or a yes, we believe they're physical they're physical. So where does the spiritual part come in? Is there some way you can explain? You know the Nexus.

Leslie: 29:26

The next they communicate with their abductees via telepathy and I believe.

Stephen: 29:31

I'm Marilee.

Leslie: 29:32

Yeah, when, when a certain family is is kind of earmarked or targeted, there may be an entity that's sort of their handler, so to speak, and who keeps Psychic and mental tabs on the family. That's how they would know. Oh, I have to rescue one of them right now. It's almost like the. The analogy I make in our book is that it's like a cow Right so far has a prize cow out in his field Eating grass and making milk.

Leslie: 30:02

Then he abducts the cow Into the barn to remove the milk and puts the cow back out into the field to eat more grass and make more milk. It seems to me like he. They are harvesting a product and this price cow is something that they keep taking again and again and again into the barn to get the prize product they want. And also they're keeping tabs on it. They actually put tracking devices in people. They're keeping tabs on their prize quote-unquote stock, and not just physical tabs but also spiritual, mental tabs. There's like a psychic connection that stays in place and whenever he enters the astral realm they are there on the other side.

Stephen: 30:51

Yeah, let's just take it for granted that there are several thousand years ahead of us, definitely as far as, like both technological and definitely spiritually, the telekinesis those things are like you know. They're like you know, playing with Legos for them and also to genetics. We're just starting to play around with genetics, like you know. Denali is working with you know, curing certain types of blindness, and we're already looking at, literally at bringing back the mastodon or the mammoth and the dodo bird. These are all things that are almost really within our grasp.

Stephen: 31:30

So it's like you know you give, you, give our cousins, you know a couple of few thousand years, you know just what they would come up with. And I definitely tell you telepathy would be. It's basically, it's basically an atrophied thing that that is in human beings. Human beings can develop it, but you know what it's like? The same thing.

Leslie: 31:53

We think it's an atrophied in us but not in them.

Stephen: 31:55

We talk about most, most doctors and scientists. They say that the human brain has to have certain things that happen to it before or by the age of five for that brain to develop into, you know, a very well adapted human being to be able to have like interactions with other people, not feeling like they're they're isolated. There are certain things that you have to, even with dogs. When you take dogs, dog training, certain things you have to do. You have to teach them by the age of six months or a year, otherwise they will never learn things.

Leslie: 32:31

Or it's much harder to be.

Stephen: 32:32

So yes, we have an atrophied ability in all of us.

Leslie: 32:35

I believe Telepathy or telepathy, and we think just the fact that they can speak telepathically with us maybe that proof right there that they're of the same stock.

Joe: 32:47

Well, yeah, I saw my physical aspects real quick here. I remember this, this documentary movies called Patient Seventeen. It was well produced. I thought it was a really good documentary by Jeremy Corbell came out 10 years ago now. Yes, I remember that.

Leslie: 33:08

Yeah, the alien in US custody right.

Joe: 33:10

So the individual was never given a name, he was only called patient 17. We don't know his identity and he went to the late Dr Roger Lear to have a small fragment surgically removed from his leg and this was on the film. They showed this, they showed the procedure. It was kind of like a piece of rice, like a long piece of rice. It was in his, I think in his calf like one of his calves.

Joe: 33:36

And it was removed and it was really. It wasn't like it was like a splinter, it was like it was put there on purpose, like it was like a grain of rice.

Leslie: 33:43

It looked like rice. You were sad.

Joe: 33:45

Like he was born with it. Now he he claimed that he was abducted. He didn't remember it and then, when he found this object, that's when he began to wonder if he was abducted and yeah. And began to I think he went to some hypotherapeut therapy on hypnosis and disclose that he was abducted. So this piece though. Let's talk about this fragment here. I was in his leg, Uh, metallurgy experts, uh, they analyzed it with spectroscopy and said it's not from this earth. It has like 36 different elements in it.

Leslie: 34:18

Yes, and they've got micro circuitry. They find when they go really deep into the yeah, I don't know if they actually found circuitry.

Joe: 34:24

But they said whatever this is made of, it's not typical of a piece of rock or mineral on earth that has way too many elements in it that is not typically found here.

Leslie: 34:34

So that's well documented.

Stephen: 34:36

Yeah, there are certain elements that don't naturally that don't naturally either occur together or they literally have to be welded together or put together, because the protons, electrons that are strangely the thing they would have was in the doctor.

Joe: 34:49

We're his possession. He died when they were producing the documentary. Oddly enough, um, and they didn't. They was track of the the implant and it was another uh specialist, the one who actually, you know, analyzed the spectroscopy and he went ghost on Jeremy. Uh, he just simply stopped calling him back, didn't answer his text messages or voice.

Leslie: 35:10

Somebody got to him like the men in black.

Joe: 35:12

Who knows right? Exactly he just sort of vanished and at the end of the, the movie I actually thought was a little bit chilling. It's like Jeremy's like I don't know what happened to this implant. I don't know what happened to my friend here. Dr Lear is now dead and there goes the proof. So my question is is there any physical evidence that would prove their presence here on earth?

Leslie: 35:36

Well, I met a ufologist who had like a Petri dish full of these, these implants that had been removed from people. It's a pretty well documented Uh, uh yeah at this point in fact I want to interject here.

Stephen: 35:49

This is again before we really actually thought about writing the book. I was working on the 20 amp pumps military base uh, supporting, helping to support the Afghanis and the uh, the, the Marines at the time and, uh, you know, doing things like horse food service and that kind of stuff. Anyway, make a long story short, I got my right arm severely injured, uh, where I I tore all four rotator cuffs on my right arm, dislocated the arm and broke, broke the bones, okay, in my arm. I had to be taken to hospital. Two and a half hours later they finally put my uh, basically put my arm back in place. Okay, worst pain I've ever had in my life. I was literally laughing at the end because I I couldn't feel my fingers and I couldn't believe the human body. I couldn't believe the human body could feel that much pain. So, anyway, they took the X-rays and one of the X-ray technicians showed me the X-rays and he showed me the lateral view of my arm and it had this rice shaped piece that was in my deltoid.

Joe: 36:53

The middle.

Stephen: 36:54

In the middle of the deltoid muscle, the lateral deltoid on my right side, and he just said well, I asked him, is that bone? He says well, I don't know what it is, but it's not anywhere.

Leslie: 37:05

It's like metal, though it's not any. It's not any.

Stephen: 37:08

Yeah, exactly, there wasn't any anywhere close to where the bone was broken. So I said, oh, it might be like something like from childhood or whatever, like a BB, and I said, okay, fine. So anyway, mistake I made, I didn't ask for that X-ray but I was able to get. About a year ago I was able to get copies of the X-ray and I'm just trying. I have copies, so I have it on a DVD. I'm in on a CD platform.

Stephen: 37:35

Yeah, we have to blow it up so yeah, I just have to blow it up enough to be able to confirm that. Yes, because when I had the five and a half hour surgery to repair my arm and it was no, it was not micro surgery, they had to literally go in there and take out the broken.

Leslie: 37:49

Yeah, scapula was broken in seven places.

Stephen: 37:51

They had to put them up, and it was my all jagged so they had to let my gasp over it. You know like when I would process the huge surgery, but after that it doesn't show on the X-rays anymore.

Leslie: 38:01

So we lost the thing.

Stephen: 38:03

So it's still still. I just have to get it blown up enough to find it.

Joe: 38:06

Okay, let me ask you this how did it make it? How did it affect you? I mean, you had this thing in your, in your body, like that you remember doing anything to you. Did it make you? I don't know, experience anything.

Leslie: 38:19

Yeah, the knocking which has stopped since you got it, yeah.

Stephen: 38:24

I used to, I used to get this quite frequently. I would, you know, be getting into a very nice, you know state of you know going to sleep, just relax, still still awake. But you know, just like you are, if you're, if your body, if you're able to get your body, your physical body to relax, and you're just about ready to go to sleep, but you're still awake, and then I always get this knock, three, always three times, knock, knock, knock behind my head from on the wall.

Stephen: 38:52

Okay, and this would happen fairly frequently, of course, then you, then you, then you, of course. Then you go into adrenal mode and you know, because it kind of scares you right. Other times I would have these I would hear a door slamming, like my bedroom door would just like somebody to slam it really hard. Or I'd hear like a glass window being broken, or then I'd hear people's voices and or other such phenomena such as that A lot of disturbances right before going to sleep. Yeah, before the hypnagogic state yes.

Leslie: 39:23

I would enter the astral state, that hypnagogic state in between the two Awaking and Sleeping. There's that state in between where you can actually go astral if you want to and if you're trained to do so. But in Steve's case there would always be a harassment right on the other side of it, it would be, it would be at.

Stephen: 39:42

it would be just before I was going to sleep Always mean I was. I was so still awake that I wasn't like I was waking up out of a sleep.

Leslie: 39:51

And we don't know what this is. Is it clear audience? Yeah, is he hearing into the astral realm?

Joe: 39:55

You know, we're not really sure. So let me ask you this when it was removed, did all that come to an end?

Leslie: 40:01

The knocking did.

Stephen: 40:03

The knocking, the knocking. Pretty well, actually. No, I still had it for see, that was in 2013. And I, we're still at the house.

Leslie: 40:10

You told me it was gone.

Stephen: 40:12

Yeah, but yeah, it was 2000. We didn't move.

Leslie: 40:13

Sorry, we'll have to resupply Shuffle.

Stephen: 40:16

Yeah, no, it didn't completely stop because you know we this, this phenomenon has followed me to six different houses, so I have to think about that. I know I wasn't getting the knocking at the at the Yucca Valley one Right the trailer, I wasn't, but before that at the house on the on the mesa, I was still getting that.

Leslie: 40:32

But anyway, let's get back to what we think happened. We believe that the human race has experienced a cataclysm. That is the cause of the great flood. Until recently, we thought it was maybe the Hayawatha asteroid impact, because it's in the right place, so we assumed it might be one of the ones that we were looking for. That caused the younger dry ass boundary and the Yussello horizon this impact happened to-.

Joe: 41:03

Let's quickly explain what the Hayawatha asteroid is. I'm not sure all our listeners are familiar with Okay.

Leslie: 41:09

Well, first of all, in 13,000-year-old soil, there's this charcoal layer called the Yussello horizon that points to the world's forests of Northern Hemisphere. Forests were all on fire at the same time. And then, right after that, it shows 1100 years of climactic change, cataclysm change, cataclysm change, cataclysm change.

Stephen: 41:37

And that was laid down right after that, 1100 years of back into the, the ice age.

Leslie: 41:42

Right, we were coming out of the Ice Age, apparently, and nanodiamonds have been discovered in this soil, so we know there is a celestial impact tied to it would be discovered. And then, sure enough, they find one in northern Greenland, which is right where the concentration of nanodimons is highest.

Stephen: 42:01

It's sort of the Up in the northern quadrant of.

Leslie: 42:03

The Hiawatha ice sheet, that's what it's called the Hiawatha, but now they've dated the Hiawatha to 58 million years ago, so it's not that one. And now they're saying that a different one that hit Lake Superior did hit 12,900 years ago.

Stephen: 42:20

Actually 12,850, if that's what you're saying.

Leslie: 42:23

So that is probably the one that I thought was Hiawatha. Who knew there were two asteroid craters within 500 miles of the Labrador Sea where we thought which is where our theory shows the highest tsunami Like the tsunami was sourced right about there and it turns out if it was the one at Lake Superior, then it also would have hit the ice sheet and created very similar cataclysm to what we describe in the book and we think the Great Flood really did happen here. This is because in the most ancient lore of like 1200 different cultures all around the world, they have an ancient flood myth in their most ancient lore and stories and it points to a definitely a worldwide phenomenon of some kind.

Joe: 43:15

And then sure enough we found the crater we always have stories about Atlantis, Lemuria, Mu, these fully advanced civilizations that were wiped out by a flood.

Leslie: 43:25

Right and we think that may really have happened.

Stephen: 43:27

And the interesting thing that we found too in researching these, even going back to Hancock's work 30 some odd years ago, even before that, is that all these cultures, that and a lot of them, never had any interaction ever. Ever, ever Because they lived at different times and whatever they were, just like different parts of the world. They all, every single one, has four knowledge and four warning.

Leslie: 43:53

Almost all of them, everyone Same thing. Four warning God warned us that there's going to be a horrible flood and either some cultures were warned to build a boat or go to high ground, some were told to dig in underneath the ground, depending on where they were living. We believe.

Stephen: 44:09

How far inland they were and whatever the kind of soil was.

Leslie: 44:12

So they had four warning that this, this impact, was going to take place, and for that you need advanced astronomy, and we believe that this impact might have been devastating enough to where it would wipe out all record of what our society was like prior to 13,000 years, except for, possibly, some of this inexplicable megalithic architecture that is just cannot be explained to the to the, to the culture, and that's elevation like a.

Stephen: 44:41

Puma, punku or socks I flood.

Laurie: 44:44

I flood would definitely read pretty much most, most all of any proof of an, of a civilization. You know, because of all the mudslides and all the, I mean that the whole area right now where tsunami. Right, and that area right now in the Middle East, with that part where they believe the four rivers meet in the Bible with the Garden of Eden. Well, if you look at it from from the NASA's pictures, from what they take off the map, you can see that there's two rivers that are dried up to ancient rivers.

Stephen: 45:15

Yeah, they're definitely there.

Laurie: 45:16

So that old area that that could be underwater to be under mud, that's underwater right now.

Leslie: 45:22

Yes, there's a lot more excavating to do in that area.

Stephen: 45:25

Mess like the Mesopotamia, you know between the rivers, Mesopotamia.

Joe: 45:30

That means middle hippopotamus, you know.

Stephen: 45:32

The horse river wars, you know all these things that point to that. That's an Eden. Apparently was E D I.

Leslie: 45:39

N. Yeah, it was actually a region in Eden, yeah, and Mesopotamia, as the Sumerians had their own Adam and Eve story that I read it was the Sitchin's translation that I read on it- Well, that's where the Bible I think that's where the Bible condenses that story like the.

Laurie: 45:56

Bible took from that so ancient Babylonian time when the Jews were in captivity in Babylon. When they came out of captivity they started re establishing their own religion and started story with them, though yeah, right. Yeah, I'd like to enumerate Elish, the ultra assies.

Leslie: 46:15

Oh, have you read that? I have read it too. I thought it was fascinating.

Laurie: 46:18

Yeah, and so well, I think you guys are ready for I mean disclosure and everything right, but that yeah.

Leslie: 46:27

I would love it, but I'm really not seeing that. Yes, they've loosened up a little bit and they've said oh, now they're admitting that the phenomenon is real. They didn't do that for 80 years. For 80 years it was swamp gas or mass hysteria or weather balloons.

Laurie: 46:43

Do you think it's on the horizon? It's real, you know. Well, we think it's not that far off. It's like on the horizon at least.

Leslie: 46:50

Oh God, you know hiding more than ever.

Stephen: 46:53

Yeah, I'm kind of a cynic on that from the standpoint of just I really am.

Leslie: 46:58

They're still punishing whistleblowers. They're still I mean, we know that they're dogging our military everywhere they go. How come we're not seeing more videos and as?

Stephen: 47:07

you know, in human beings, you know, we still have the seven deadly sins that we apparently inherited from them. So Greek let me. Let's family pride, wrath and sloth. We have that in Spain.

Leslie: 47:18

In Spain.

Stephen: 47:19

So, guess what? We have people that want to be dictators, people that want to rule the world, we have stock markets, we have people, of course, we have all these different religious groups. We have the Muslims, the Buddhists, we have the Christians and the Corpus, and what, what? That full disclosure, what that would do. And then, of course, and how do you then, of course, any other people say, well, proved that you're an alien, you know, or whatever. It's just like when you really look at it, you know. I think what they're trying to do is really to like infiltrate and kind of changes in a more positive way. They definitely do not want us playing around with nukes.

Leslie: 47:55

Yeah, I think that's what the breeding program might be about is they're trying to infiltrate and possibly reintegrate with us.

Stephen: 48:07

Right.

Leslie: 48:08

And change us, you know, psychically, from the inside out, so to speak.

Laurie: 48:11

Yeah, that's good, that's a good point and that may, that might be. But aside from government disclosure, then I mean, do you think there will be like a time will come when humanity will have its first contact with an alien race? And I mean not just sporadic sightings reported by people, but like the actual smoking gunproof, the physical appearance and the interaction with the entire planet as a whole? You know, like something like from the movies, like like Independence Day I know that's a more like close encounters of the third kind. Yeah, exactly.

Laurie: 48:43

And it's not something like that, whether it's you know, to destroy us or to, you know, give us more knowledge, or what.

Stephen: 48:51

I mean our book reports that they are literally cousins to us. That explains a lot of things.

Leslie: 48:58

They themselves are not so much aliens, but we also. You know, we're mostly talking about the time period about 13,000 years ago when we think the separation happened. But then we look later in the book. We look further back about 300,000 years ago, the stories of the Anunnaki and the Sumerians, and they talk about uplifting the Homo erectus into Homo sapiens. This is the Sumerians taking credit for this themselves, the Sumerian Anunnaki gods, but it actually looks like it may have happened. We have some weird genetic anomalies in our genome showing possible signs of uplifting, and we couldn't have uplifted ourselves.

Stephen: 49:40

Jason Martell at a recent I think it was a contact in the desert did a very interesting seminar on the fact that if you look at the human brain and the neocortex, which is our most recent part of what it makes us from Homo sapiens to Homo sapiens sapiens, it looks like that there was actually like a cut and paste job done on a couple of the couple parts of the genome on. You know, we're only four base pairs, so that has to do with, like Broca's brain, which Carl Sagan talked about, but apparently it looks like about 300,000 years ago that we all of a sudden, in a very short period of time, homo sapiens sapiens developed the ability to be able to speak. So when we look at it from that, standpoint.

Leslie: 50:28

And the way I describe it in the book is we went from being animals that would crouch down next to a stream and drink you know, slap water up to being creatures that could conceive of building a chair and a cup and sitting in it and drinking from the cup. You know, this was like an overnight. This was like an overnight change.

Joe: 50:49

I don't mean a 24 hour period but I earned a higher on the evolutionary scale of millions.

Laurie: 50:55

And yeah evolutionary scale of millions and millions of years, even even 5,000 or 10,000 years, would be considered an overnight change. But I think it was even yeah, it was even less than that that, I think.

Leslie: 51:09

But when?

Joe: 51:09

you say that you know we were bent over.

Laurie: 51:11

And you know, even the Apostle Paul says there's a scripture verse, for the Apostle Paul says this I know that man was made to walk upright. So is he hinting? Was he hinting to something there? Was he telling more to the story? But maybe it was taken out or excluded.

Leslie: 51:28

I believe that it's ironic, because if, if we were, if an alien race came along and uplifted us and created us, it's just make man and our image right. Evolution is right. That's right In that, even Lucian's right. That theory is right in that we evolved up, you know, until we became homo erectus. Then the Bible is right that God came and made us into making us in his image.

Joe: 51:58

I've always said that you know the ancient, the ancient alien, ancient astronaut theory. It does support both theories. You can actually, if you kind of look into this theory, you're not rejecting your religious beliefs outright, right, You're not. You're not dismissing the Bible outright and you're also not ignoring that evolution, that there's a lot of evidence that supports that theory. So it's kind of how I guess, the best of both worlds on a little bit you can be a creationist and an evolutionist by kind of appealing to the ancient astronaut theory.

Leslie: 52:33

I think it's hilarious 100%. There was a huge battle between the creationists and the evolutionists, you know, back in Darwin's time when he was trying to get the his theory to be understood. It turns out that maybe both are right. The church and Darwin are both right.

Stephen: 52:51

In different proportions.

Joe: 52:52

yes, Right, and there were, you know, anthropologists after Darwin, george Wallace, I mean, he, he accepted the theory but even recognized that. You know the timeframe we're talking about for almost 100 years, not for Homo sapiens to become the. You know, the, the have the development and the intellect that we do, and then we've also, you know, far surpassed the other species.

Leslie: 53:14

Yes.

Joe: 53:15

Time frame that happened is remarkably slow and that really appeared to go with the what would be expected of the time span of evolution. We shouldn't be here where we are intellectually, culturally developed.

Leslie: 53:28

We went through millions of years of evolution in about 50,000 years Right.

Stephen: 53:33

And another thing we found very fascinating was things like such as the the Tower of Babel, which actually really goes back to Samaria.

Leslie: 53:40

That's another Samarian story where they have a completely different version. She went.

Stephen: 53:44

She went, for we're getting this a little bit too smart and too rambunctious and they wanted to basically emulate the gods, and that wasn't cool, right.

Leslie: 53:55

The tower wasn't just because we were trying to build a tower to heaven. Like a rocket it was actually supposed to be a launching tower, to have to gain the power of the gods, to have power of flight, you know. And that was the sign of humans getting uppity. So the gods came along and knocked down the tower and spread those humans to the four winds.

Stephen: 54:14

We didn't teach the same language anymore, and of course it would make us like less, less of a crap.

Joe: 54:19

Let's give this. This is a, you know, a corollary. Why don't they do that now? I mean, we talked about, like you know, the Tower of Babel. Okay, I it doesn't give in the book of Genesis a dimensions like how tall it was. It says the sky. I mean, let's face it, if it was three stories back then, that would have been reaching the skies by their standards. Today we have skyscrapers that literally do touch the sky. That Burj Khalifa in Dubai is something like 1200 feet tall.

Stephen: 54:49

Why.

Joe: 54:50

Something about that, or the ones in Shanghai or Malaysia. These are super skyscrapers that they're not just a you know a few stars. Yeah, the two, the two.

Stephen: 55:01

Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia the two towers, yeah, yeah, I think, I think definitely that maybe the first time around, maybe we're made a little bit too smart and maybe a little bit, you know, human beings number one we make terrible slaves, you know, we just we don't like being slaves. So we also have theories, too, about the grace. Of the grace may very well be a partially constructed grace that is definitely has the ability of telepathy, but definitely does not have the problems of the emotions, like fear and anger, like human beings do.

Leslie: 55:42

We hear from abductees that the grays are completely emotionless and they're never confused. They never don't know what they're going to do next. They never mill around wondering what to do next. They're very goal driven. They get what they do, what they're supposed to do, with complete emotionless faces, and sometimes they're terrifying the victims, and the terror of their victims means nothing to them, it just bounces off them. So we get this feeling like they possibly are a slave race that the Nordic aliens have possibly constructed, and this may be another reason for their needing so much genetic material. It's possible they're using our genetic material to help breed this race.

Joe: 56:35

And I said, you know when I talk about this first contact, which is sort of this event that would leave no doubt in anyone's mind that there is an extraterrestrial race here. It's going to be disruptive, even if they do come peacefully and they have nothing but benevolence. Yeah, we know of a few incidents with them.

Leslie: 56:56

Admiral Bird met with them, you know, and had this meeting and this is where they kind of give a window into how they think about us.

Leslie: 57:05

He said that the master that he met with under the Arctic eye said that we normally don't have anything to do with your people and your barbaric wars and your barbarism. And they kind of look down on us like we're well, you know, embarrassing barbaric cousin. You know, children kept calling him my son, my son, my son. He says, but you really that he said to Admiral Bird that we want you guys to give up your nukes. This is not a power that you guys should be playing with. And then supposedly there was a meeting between the Nordic aliens and Eisenhower in the 50s where they came up with they tried to get us to denuclearize and we refused, and, but we agreed to keep their secret and as long as, and and allowed them to take as many of the keys as they wanted, since they couldn't stop them anyway and they would share dribs and drabs of their technology with us. This, we believe, was the treaty or the truth that was struck by.

Stephen: 58:08

Yeah, and since our going from the vacuum to really quickly into, you know, micro circuitry and having flat screen TVs and and stuff, now even Star Trek back in the original Star Trek with the communicators, we actually have better stuff now with our, with our smartphones, than they had in Star Trek.

Joe: 58:28

Right, and smartphones actually came about 15 years ago, so we're talking.

Stephen: 58:32

Steve Jobs yeah.

Joe: 58:34

Stephen and Leslie. What do you think first contact would do to the human race? If everybody saw these ships or these beans all at once, like in the movie Independence Day, what do you think would happen?

Leslie: 58:47

I think Steve said it best he thinks the the religions of the world would go bonkers and every stock market in the world would crash and I would be caught.

Stephen: 58:56

Well, I think you know, if you look back into 1938 with the war of the worlds, that you know, of course, Orson Wells did and they did a. You know they. They said that this is a, this is a, this is a piece of. You know, this is a. This isn't real, but we're going to, we're going to put on this play.

Stephen: 59:16

OK, people tuned in later and later and there actually was anarchy, at least in the United States. But one thing I want to interject I'd never got to tell you about my direct contact with this old Glegly character, which is actually really an alien.

Leslie: 59:32

Yeah, when.

Stephen: 59:32

I was 18 years of age and I had physical proof, and with a witness. If you want to hear that story, I can certainly tell you.

Leslie: 59:40

Is that? Are we getting a wrap up time?

Joe: 59:43

Oh yeah, we have a few more minutes Go ahead.

Stephen: 59:46

OK, this, this was. This was the the fourth of fifth thing, five things that happened in January of 1979. Yeah, I came in bunch of the Woodland Hills area. My dad and my sister and I were all living together, my dad and I were cabinet makers, so I was physically fit and whatever. So, anyways, I had been afraid I've been scared the night before. So I wasn't, I wasn't sleeping in my, my normal bed, in my bedroom.

Stephen: 1:00:12

So this particular night I decided to sleep on the couch in the living room in my work clothes and I woke about five thirty in the morning, it was dark, looked at my piano, thinking about what I was going to play that day and listens to the fountain in the other room and I was fully awake and just laying on my back and from behind me, from the front door, this entity tall, skinny entity of about six to seven feet, tall, blue, white came floating, walking toward me in about a second and a half to two seconds, filling the whole room with blue white light.

Stephen: 1:00:48

Ok, stop, on my right hand side and the whole right side of my body basically was disconnected. In other words, I couldn't move it, I couldn't feel it and I was basically paralyzed, not in a scary way, but I was paralyzed and I thought, oh, I'm going to see the family spirit guide. Oh, gladly that other people had seen. But it was. It bent down to my right ear and it said in my ear, steve, kind of in a whispery voice. I couldn't tell it was male or female, but I couldn't do anything about it. I couldn't, like you know, turn my head or whatever. I thought, wow, this is really cool.

Stephen: 1:01:27

But the other half of you is saying, dude, you are paralyzed, you can't move, and so he's excited, so anyways about 10 or 15 seconds later it unbent from like down by my ear and it went back out and to this day I cannot remember if I went and told my dad right away, says you know, dad, you know what just happened. What I do know is six hours later, at 11 30 in the morning, my dad and I were getting hungry for lunch, so I decided to reach in my right hand side pocket of the clothes I had been wearing from the night before and pulled out the coins, just standard American coins, and they were all magnetized. I could pick the coins up with each other. It didn't matter. Where's the penny with the quarter, the quarter with the nickel? I have some nails in there too. So that was, that was no problem. So, whatever, and my dad and I were looking at each other and my dad, you know, is just like you know what is going on. This, this, you know. That's not possible.

Leslie: 1:02:27

Yeah, American coin.

Stephen: 1:02:28

The only mistake I made at the time was that my dad and I didn't think to like get our neighbor to look at it or to get or to get a camera, but my dad was my witness and God rest his soul. It's like you know and this was only one of like five things in a row that happened- that I had heard the story that my dad, that my dad, my sister, myself, my mother and my brother in a different house that we're building.

Stephen: 1:02:53

we're all experiencing these weird anomaly yeah, going from a silver bell being wrong to my to my shoulder being tapped on three times my right shoulder. Boys in his ear actually were that that that little metallic object was seen on the X-ray and my bed being shook, my bed being pushed from the base.

Leslie: 1:03:14

And then one time, Philip, when he was 16, he actually saw a gray alien in his room right before blacking out.

Leslie: 1:03:22

It was one of the color grays about a six foot. He described it, and this is when I realized what kind of phenomenon we were actually dealing with, because sometimes it sounded like haunting. Sometimes I didn't know what the heck it was. But now I understand, because I've read so many different accounts since then, that they frequently tamper with memory and sometimes the family would perceive them as gnomes. Sometimes the family would perceive them as little Chinese men.

Leslie: 1:03:50

My mother your mother saw him that way sometimes. But frequently these, these altered memories have this shimmery quality about them and we've tried to break through Steven's mental block with hypnosis to try and get to those blacked out memories. But the block is just too strong and we haven't succeeded yet.

Joe: 1:04:10

Anything come through the hypnosis that they've learned anything?

Stephen: 1:04:14

One time I did have with one guy was dealing with. I did a couple of sessions with him up in Joshua Tree and actually I took on a different voice at the second session I did, and it was kind of a demonic sounding voice. That's what he told me. That's about a tongue or something. No, I wasn't speaking in tongues. I was speaking English, but it's something that part of me really kind of wants to know, but part of me doesn't.

Leslie: 1:04:44

I think that's why we haven't been successful yet, dear.

Stephen: 1:04:49

Yeah, it's because my parents, my parents, even my uncle that wasn't a Shaw or a row or a Newman, he was a Griffiths. But he was married to my mom's older sister and he was greeted by old Glegly when he was in Ceylon, which is now today Sri Lanka. He was in the RAF when he was the Royal Air Force and he was awakened in the early hours of the morning by this tall figure. He looked like a tall black man in a red fes and he said Douglas, wake up, you have to get out now, You're going to be killed otherwise. And then the figure disappeared and he got out of the tent, which was like about a 20 to 40 person tent, and then the raiding party of rebels came through and primarily machetes and knives, but some guns and several members were killed.

Stephen: 1:05:43

And he told me this a couple of different occasions when I was a young man and my uncle Douglas was a you know, no-nonsense British guy who actually built a lot of downtown Palm Springs and Palm Desert. So he was, he was very wealthy at the end of his life and you know, he was just. I really always liked my uncle Douglas, but he was. He was not directly blood related at all, except that he was.

Leslie: 1:06:10

He was in the family.

Laurie: 1:06:13

So it's a great story, you really have pursued a passion here.

Joe: 1:06:19

You really didn't want to research and just like to close what we kind of sharing this little piece of information here. In a 2022 survey of a thousand American adults it was carried out by Statistacom 42% believe that there will be alien contact with Earth sometime in the next 200 years.

Leslie: 1:06:40

So I think it's already happened.

Joe: 1:06:43

Allowing for the fact that they may not be here when it happens. So, but they're wrong, they're gone. Yeah, that's true. So, as always, a UD audience must decide are we close to finding out the answer to this, or is it something that will elude us for quite some time? Are we still trying to catch butterflies with a blindfold on? So, steven, yeah, it's true that Steven Leslie has truly been a pleasure being able to talk with you today. You've given all of us some tremendously great insight into the whole extraterrestrial question and hope to expand on understanding of a realm of things that are serotonous and under very much under the surface. And again to our listeners the book is titled who they Are and what Are they Up To?

Stephen: 1:07:31

Who they are and what they're up to. Who they are, and it's like the T-H-E-Y apostrophe R-E.

Joe: 1:07:37

So what they are up to, by Steven and Leslie Shaw, you can find it.

Leslie: 1:07:41

Oh, sorry, he knocked over the mic. I also wanted to say yeah, they can't see it on the at the home audience. We also have an Instagram page at Leslieshawauthor where we're posting Steven's series of Steven's family's experiences and also lots of other content, and our Facebook handle is the same Leslieshawauthor. And we have a website at whotheyarebookcom where you can find excerpts and our blogs and links to our podcasts.

Stephen: 1:08:17

That we've done and we'll soon get the link to this one on there too. Yes, it's on Amazon and Ingram. Of course, ingram is targeted primarily for bookstores and of course we're in Kindle Format and ebook.

Leslie: 1:08:31

Yeah, on Amazon.

Laurie: 1:08:32

Okay.

Stephen: 1:08:33

Cool.

Laurie: 1:08:34

Well guys, yeah, we can't thank you both enough for coming on the show. It was a great experience and we enjoyed having you on. It was an honor to be able to talk to you guys today.

Leslie: 1:08:43

Thank you guys, it was great. We loved it.

Joe: 1:08:47

Yeah, awesome. And folks, don't forget to check out our website, wwwaliantocpodcastcom, where you can listen to this episode and read our monthly newsletter, and it will tell all about what is going on with the program for February, as well as what's coming up in the month of March, and we also have the Shaw's bios put up there. So take care, everyone. As the Zoroastrians will say, good thoughts, good words, good beats all of you. That's also a line from Bohemian Rhapsody, that's right.

Stephen: 1:09:18

And as well as words, right thoughts, right actions.

Joe: 1:09:21

As always, stay curious. Bye everyone.

Leslie: 1:09:24

Bye, thank you.

Stephen: 1:09:28

In fact, that's what you.