Alien Talk Podcast
Alien Talk Podcast
The Epic of Gilgamesh
The ancient and profound Epic of Gilgamesh holds far more than just mythological storytelling—it contains clues to humanity's possible extraterrestrial origins. As we explore this Mesopotamian masterpiece dating back to 2100 B.C., we unravel fascinating connections between Sumerian accounts and Biblical narratives that suggest common source material predating both traditions.
Many mistake Gilgamesh for the Mesopotamian equivalent of Noah, but the flood survivor in this epic is actually Utnapishtim, whom Gilgamesh seeks out during his quest for immortality. The wild beast-man Enkidu, created by gods to challenge Gilgamesh, represents what might be evidence of the "gods" carrying out genetic hybridization experiments. Sumerian artwork depicts mutated creatures that appear distinctly non-human, raising questions about what these representations may truly document.
The creation accounts found in Akkadian texts describe how the Anunnaki gods created humans as a workforce, with passages stating they mixed their divine DNA with existing primitive beings. This aligns remarkably with the unexplained evolutionary leap that separated Homo sapiens from other hominids. Despite sharing nearly identical DNA with chimpanzees and coexisting with Neanderthals, humans developed unprecedented cognitive abilities and self-awareness. Could this advancement have resulted from external genetic manipulation?
Both Gilgamesh's epic and the Bible share striking elements—sacred cedar forests, serpents that prevent immortality, divine beings with physical needs, and giants among men. Such parallels suggest these stories preserve memories of actual events involving advanced beings who were interpreted as prehistoric peoples as gods. The quest for immortality that drives Gilgamesh mirrors humanity's eternal struggle with the meaning and purpose of life, a theme that continue to resonate across cultures to this day.
Join us as we examine this remarkable archaic story through the lens of the ancient alien theory, considering the compelling possibility that our creation myths contain literal truths about extraterrestrial intervention in human evolution. If our search for meaning is actually encoded memories of our origins, what other secrets might these ancient texts reveal?
"Space Journey" by Geoff Harvey
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Hello and thank you for joining us on Alien Talk Podcast. This is the show where we discuss all things about aliens and UFOs and, as always, where we push the limits of our understanding about subjects that pertain to the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence, the presence of UFOs and perhaps even the very meaning of life itself here on our noble planet. We explore the mysteries of the cosmos and the enshrouded secrets of our world's history, constantly pondering what is out there in the far reaches of space and asking questions about what our ancestors encountered in all those wondrous and revered stories from the distant past. So, the last time we were with you, we explored a bit of the Atra-Hasis, a very ancient Akkadian story that tells of a wise and noble priest-king who survives a great flood.
Joe:Atrahasis, the main character, exhibits noticeable similarities to Noah, as is found vis-a-vis in the Bible.
Joe:Just like the Enuma Elish, which we also talked about, it alludes to themes that deal with the beginnings of human existence on earth, with the gods creating man and woman and them becoming greatly displeased with how their work turned out, a massive flood coming that kills almost everyone, and then a restart to civilization with a few survivors who perpetuate the human life here on the planet.
Joe:This is covered in the first 12 chapters of Genesis to form what we know as a narrative in the Judeo-Christian canon, in which God, the Lord, is the central active player who stands in for the pantheon of Mesopotamian deities.
Joe:Now, these epic poems form the core mythology that is preserved in Akkadian script and come to us in the form that we have from Babylonian and Assyrian traditions which, from what many scholars speculate, was borrowed from the Sumerians and then later passed on to other cultures of the ancient world, one of them being the Hebrews, who eventually gave us the Holy Bible, as well as the Greeks, egyptians and pretty much everyone else, and we find in all of them a human relationship with the divine. But there is also another story that, like the Enuma, Elish and the Atra-Hasis, it richly portrays the source material that is interwoven throughout all these cultures as they have been transmitted down from the Sumerians. That one is known as the Epic of Gilgamesh, dating to around the 22nd century B. C., and Laurie, that would put it before the time of the composition of those other pieces of Mesopotamian literature that we know of, wouldn't it?
Laurie:Yeah, I believe so, Joe. The Epic of Gilgamesh is one of the earliest surviving pieces of ancient mythology, if not the earliest piece. Not only is it an epic poem of heroic deeds, incredible adventures, and it acquists for the divine, but it puts forth many timeless and tantalizing philosophical questions. In much the same way the Bible stories do. Like the Enumeration, the Atra-Hasis. It was found in the 1850s and the 1860s on cuneiform clay tablets within the library of Ashurbanipal, among the ruins of the ancient Assyrian city of Nineveh, modern-day Iraq. Unlike those ones that dated to around 700 to 600 BC of the ancient Assyrian city of Nineveh, modern-day Iraq. Unlike those ones that dated to around 700 to 600 B. C., the tablets of the Epic of Gilgamesh are believed to be dated to between 1300 and 1100 B. C., so they are older scripts.
Laurie:Now many people are familiar with Gilgamesh, or at least they have heard mention of him, possibly through scriptural studies or through books that cover biblical commentary and history, in which it is used to show a parallel narrative about the flood which is supposed to support the validity of the Genesis account. Further, one thing in that a lot of people make the mistake in their assumption is that Gilgamesh is to be thought of as the equivalent character of Noah, like it is the same story of Noah but just with a different name, which is incorrect. But Gilgamesh is a semi-mythical king of Uruk and as the central character he seeks or confronts the issues of mortality, friendship, loyalty, divinity and overall the search for meaning in life. The person who most closely resembles the identity of Noah is someone called Utnapishtim, who Gilgamesh eventually meets and finds out that he had survived the great flood. So the opinion or presumption out there that somehow that some have about this, you know, epic of Gilgamesh being the retelling of Noah's Ark from a different culture is not entirely accurate.
Joe:Yeah, that's right, and of course you know there's also the matter of how post-Diluvian chronology it doesn't really line up with Gilgamesh, with the narrative. This story of Gilgamesh takes us back to about 2100 B. C., when Utnapishtim is encountered. 2100 BC, when Utnapishtim is encountered and it is not an ordinary type of encounter, as Utnapishtim and his wife are found to live for eternity in a realm that is something like Shangri-La, something like another dimension, something called the Celestial Abode and he tells Gilgamesh that this great flood had happened a long, long time before that, like thousands of years before that. Well, from a standpoint of apologetics, this particular source does bear many of the same factors and elements as the Genesis account, as Utnaphistim relays to Gilgamesh all the details about the ship and its dimensions and the animals there were only some animals, not two of every animal as well as also how it rested on a mountain and all that. All those other features of the story seem to be similar to the narrative by Utnapishtim. However, the timeline in which we're impressed in the Epic of Gilgamesh is one that goes much further back than we tend to take away from a reading of the 3rd through 11th chapters of Genesis. We even see that Genesis 9: 28-2 9, has Noah living for 350 years after the flood, with a total lifespan of 950 years, not an eternal life.
Joe:Another thing to highlight is that the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Atra-Hasis and the Enuma Elish were brought to everyone's knowledge.
Joe:They weren't brought to everyone's knowledge until after the excavation of Nineveh during the Victorian era, that is, when the clay tablets were found that contained these texts. However, these stories had been known to poets, philosophers and even theologians for quite some time, all the way back to antiquity. A Babylonian priest of Bel named Berusus wrote about the flood myth and the heroic tales of Gilgamesh in the 3rd century BC, as did Alexander of Miletus, a Greek historian of the 1st century BC, and it was uncommon for medieval monasteries to keep copies of manuscripts containing pagan mythology, and Gilgamesh was one of the ones that were kept. So these stories were known to literate people for quite a long time, although they did become sort of re-energized or re-inspired after the archaeological discoveries of the library of Ashurbanipal, something that contributed to a rise in theosophy, spiritualism and occultism in the early 1900s, which we see with individuals like Helena Blavatsky, Edgar Cayce and Arthur Conan Doyle. Even the analytical psychologist Carl Jung was somehow influenced by the renewal of this ancient wisdom, which was brought about by these archaeological discoveries.
Laurie:Yeah, and the Bible. These epics from Sumerian mythology continue to this day to be relevant in the landscapes of Western culture and religion. So this shows how the work of storytellers of the past have endured and how they connect universally to the human experience. From Gilgamesh we get a good glimpse into the ancient way of thinking and their societal structures, and it starts off with a vivid portrayal of Yurik, showcasing its architectural splendor and political hierarchy, which is supported by archaeological discoveries that reveal how the Sumerians were very advanced and a well organized civilization. There are references to ziggurats, temples, irrigation canals, and these correspond to what has been on earth, adding a good bit of literary and historical truthfulness to this epic.
Laurie:And Gilgamesh parallels the Atra-Hasis. That tells of how the gods created these irrigation canals to nourish the land, enabling humans to cultivate crops and provide food and offerings for a sacred feast to be given to them. And this concept also resonates with the account found in the book of Leviticus, with the Lord commanding the Israelites to give a daily offering of meat and grain and wine and all sorts of things like that Even the authors were made of. The authors in Leviticus even had to have spoons and forks and knives on it. So, yeah, it was a little more than daily sacrifices. They were meal preparations.
Joe:Yeah right, and the story character of Gilgamesh was probably inspired by the Sumerian king of the same name, who reigned around 2800 to 2500 B. C., a time period known as the Third Dynasty of Ur. While his exploits in the narrative feature many mythical elements, like encounters with gods and monsters, his kingship and the city's prominence may very well have been rooted in historical accuracy. He is depicted as a demigod, much like in the way Hercules is portrayed in Greek mythology, and even in some way he is comparable to King David from the Bible. And actually, there are some literary scholars who believe that the tales about Gilgamesh bear much influence in the composition of Homer's work, the Iliad and the Odyssey, which were written sometime after 1100 BC. Now this whole saga is basically divided into two parts. The first half involves the audacious plight of Gilgamesh as the king of Uruk, and there's an enigmatic figure called Enkidu, who was a wild man, actually a monstrous beast man, and he was created by the gods in order to stop Gilgamesh in his seemingly harsh rule over the people of the city-state of Uruk. At least in their minds he was harsh.
Joe:Now, this element is pretty commonly found in mythology, with the gods creating some grossly mutated human or something in animal form that is sent to fight the protagonist.
Joe:You know, in Greek mythology there is the minotaur.
Joe:In the Nordic legends there are the Berserkers, then there's also the Chimera, which is like a hybrid creature that has a lion's body, a goat's head on its back and a serpent's tail, and of course there is the sphinx.
Joe:All monstrous creatures that there are Akkadian texts describing how Ea omens over imperfections that were derived in his creation of man essentially hybridization, experience of his that had gone wrong. And there are also stone reliefs and statues that have been found in places like Nineveh, sippur and Ur that depict these beastly-looking humanoid characters that seem to be something like part bull or part lion or even part fish. So this raises the question of whether such ghastly creatures may have possibly existed at one point in time and have been thus recorded in the artwork and the literature of Babylon and Assyria thus recorded in the artwork and the literature of Babylon and Assyria, and it seems like the character of Enkidu fits this sort of classification of such beings. That would be a result of what we would call faulty genetic engineering, hybridization. You know, genetic engineering projects that had gone wrong and created these mutants, terrible looking beasts.
Laurie:Yeah, yeah, and we are. I've always said it, we are hybrids. So, according to the story, gilgamesh must have, or must not have been a very good king, even though the whole thing begins with a poem that is in praise of him. He may have actually been quite a tyrant. After Enkidu is civilized through sexual initiation with Shamhat, who is often viewed as a prostitute, introducing him to the ways of civilization, which to me is a little bit reminiscent of the Tarzan story. So, following the transformation, enkidu travels to Yurik, challenging Gilgamesh to a contest of strength. Although Gilgamesh ultimately prevails, the two forge a strong friendship, showcasing Gilgamesh's impressive strength. And he must have been a demigod, especially considering that Enkidu appears to be a wild man, perhaps a remnant of a primate, or even a Homo erectus.
Laurie:Do you see the connection to the ancient alien theory that I'm attempting to make here? Yeah, so evolutionists argue that humans evolved from primates through natural selection, without divine intervention. Which creationists claim a divine being created? Humans. However, if we are uniquely made in God's image, why do we share 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees? You know, this biological fact contrasts with the biblical account of humans formed from the dust and clay. Now, when we go to the ancient alien theory we find a proposed hypothesis that incorporates both evolution and creation. In the Sumerian mythology, the god Enki declares A being already exists. Let us put our mark upon it, let us create a primitive worker so that we might have our ease. This is where I believe they, our alien gods, created the first species of early humans, possibly from the genome of the primates such as the Homo erectus or probably even Cro-Magnon man. The popular belief in the ancient alien theory, I think, is Homo erectus, but this being was strong and robust and able to perform the difficulties of slave labor, and it wasn't until an upgrade was needed that we became self-aware beings, known now as the Homo sapiens species thinking man, wise man.
Laurie:So in his book Genes, Giants, Monsters, and Men, Joseph Farrell discusses translations of ancient Mesopotamian texts that describe the creation of humans, and one passage dating back nearly 3,000 years reads they summon Mami, the life creator. Now Mami is where we get the word mommy, mom, saying you are the biological expert. We want you to create a Lulu to perform tasks for Enlil and take on the labor. Now Pharaoh suggests mankind was created both as laborers and as hybrids of gods and pre-existing hominids. Another passage states and from his blood, the lady of creation mixed the cultures.
Laurie:After she did this, she notified the Anunnaki lords and the lordlings possibly the Igigi or other Anunnaki and provided their sperm for the life cultures. Now Enki then says that the lordlings and man will be hybridized in the culture. Now he said, let the hybrid receive spirit, consciousness, from the lordling's flesh, and then let's not forget that living man will have a spirit. So pharaoh explains that the Anunnaki refer to clay being mixed with spittle, which may be interpreted as semen and subsequently incubated in 14 goddesses for the conception of the adamu right.
Joe:So we see in. You know, there are components in Sumerian mythology that describe the creation of humans, called Adamu, in a place called Edan, which sounds a lot like Eden, the Garden of Eden. Similarly, the Bible mentions Adam being created at that place. Both sources involve a plural concept of God, elohim. This is in the Bible as well, where there is a plurality given of God at the time of the creation of man and woman and really everything, as well as in the Anunnaki, which are plural, and that's found in the Sumerian text. We refer to the creation in male and female forms. There are deities are also in male and female forms.
Joe:So while hermeneutics can offer metaphorical explanations for these features, and in the literature the straightforward illustration seems to suggest that the creators were flesh and blood beings and that they created other beings in their own image, just as we see it, man and woman with bodily form. And interpreting this differently leads to a lot of subjective analysis, criticism, sometimes even overreaching into trying to define something in which there is no tangible basis for coming up with that explanation. This is where apologetics will accept non-physical entities creating physical ones, and that poses a big problem for logical thinking and for what we understand of in the philosophy of science.
Laurie:Well, the correct answer may come from interpreting the straightforward meaning. Numerous verses describe Yahweh, the Hebrew God, eating, drinking, resting, walking, and so this is all implying that he was a physical being. Now creationists argue against this due to their religious indoctrination. The power of faith can lead people to ignore tangible evidence, sticking to beliefs about the afterlife despite the contradictions. If texts say that he ate, drank, walked and descended in a cloud or a chariot of fire, perhaps it should be taken literally. I mean that part of the text. And it may be just that, that the biblical text should just be taken at face value, which means that we have flesh and blood creators in the plural, who have incredible abilities.
Laurie:So if you look at the cosmic scale, on the cosmic scale, the 250,000 to 300,000 years it took for our species to become almost sapiens is almost instantaneous. And it is believed that around this time alien genetic engineering began to influence human development. And in our last episode about the Atraasis, we discussed how this alien race was mining gold in Africa and sought relief from their labor, just like we were quoting from the text of the ancient text earlier. According to the Atra-Hasis, the Anunnaki leaders, that be it, Anu, Enlil and Enki, possibly maybe that's where we get the Trinity from but they decided to create a worker species, essentially a beast of burden, right, strong or robust. So artifacts have been found that depict these gods performing hybridization to create what would be known as Adam or man, in particular in particular.
Joe:Interestingly, these depictions in Sumerian and Egyptian cylinder seals also show the gods not only making humans in laboratory settings, but they're making some monstrous creatures. These would be the experiments that have essentially gone wrong and resulted in deformities and imperfections, and it's taken them a while to perfect the whole process. One might wonder if these are just simply allegorical illustrations of them creating humans, possibly, but in Genesis we have God already being in existence, saying let us make man in our image, according to our likeness. Now, this suggests genetic manipulation rather than a spiritual creation. As we are simply talking about likeness, we're not really talking about anything in terms of the essence, the sort of characteristics or what is in the heart of the creation, but the creation itself, the physical body. So this seems to imply, from the interpretation directly from the text, that our creators might be nothing more than beings from another world somewhere in our universe, and that the ancient alien theory presents this idea as an alternative interpretation of the story of mankind's origin.
Laurie:Yeah, correct, and it's important to note that people believe the Biblical narrative on faith, not evidence. So I mean we can bring forth our arguments, but the proof we're looking for may just be DNA. That may be the proof, nothing about the spirit of God or something supernatural, but the chemical manipulation within the very chromosomes of an omitted creature that was already here through the lengthy processes of evolution. That biochemical manipulation was caused by something else that also was already here to hydrodize our DNA with its DNA. That other DNA, I believe, is what is made by God, quote unquote in the creation story.
Joe:Yes, and there were many types of hominids that inhabited the earth we know that from paleontological evidence and there were humanoid species like Homo erectus, Homo habilis, Homo neanderthalus, but we Homo sapiens, we outwitted and performed all of them. How did this happen? How do we outperform other species when we're all on the same evolutionary timeline? It was an incredible leap in making Homo sapiens sentient, intelligent and conscious creatures when we were really in the same environment. We're in the same. You know environment. You know we're in the same ecosystem. There's nothing that really should have made us advance any better than another species, yet we did considerably. The question is did some outside factor or outside force and intelligence become involved and create us into the thinking and wise species that we are today, or at least we should be? All of us would say yes, as is revealed in our beliefs in God, and asking who or what God is is impossible to answer.
Joe:The definition of God is too abstract for us to come up with a single independent mode or way to think about him, and everything about him transcends our understanding. So we can certainly ask is there something that could be the so-called DNA of God and if so, how would it be noticeable? And there are notions that deities are giants. So could giant size be one of the features of divinity? We do find descriptions of that in several books of the Bible about giants. Genesis has these giants as being descendants of the sons of God. So there's a connection between that feature of being big with being divine. We definitely think of God as being big. We never think of him as being a small entity.
Joe:He's larger than anything he doesn't occupy any volume in space, but when we do think of him as humanoid form, we're not going to think of him as a shrimpy kind of person. He's going to be quite large and powerful, and there are images of Babylonian art that show Gilgamesh as something of a giant, as he hunts lions with spears and arrows, and he can hold an adult male lion which is identifiable by its mane, and no ordinary human could hold a lion this way. The lion appears like the size of a dog. So it's like. This is something you know commensurate with the description of Goliath in the Old Testament.
Laurie:Yeah, and I'm always that picture, that statue of Gilgamesh holding a lion, always amazed me, and we know there had to have been giants because even talking about the flood, the great flood, I always wondered why, even after, since God destroyed the earth with flood and only Noah and his family had survived. You know, where did these giants come from? And I'm talking about the giants in the land of Canaan, when Joshua went in with the spies and they said man, the giants are there, they're so big, they are of the raphaeum, which is interpreted as the Anakin, which would be the Anunnaki, and they were huge. We felt like we were the size of grasshoppers. Of course that's not an actual comparison, it's just overstated. You know he's trying to analyze what he's seeing, how big these guys are, so it's over-exaggerated, but still there were giants there. So that makes you wonder. But what you said about that lion in Gilgamesh's arms? I mean, lions are bigger than any large dog breed we know of and can kill them easily and make a meal out of them.
Laurie:So this then brings up the question of DNA. Who was this King Gilgamesh? Why was he depicted as being so large? The answer may be found in the rich repository of Mesopotamian religious beliefs. The pantheon of gods, including Anu, enlil and even Ishtar, reflects the polytheistic worldview of the time. So ritual practices, divine interventions and the concept of an afterlife as depicted in the epic align with other Mesopotamian religious texts. The flood narrative recounted by Upnapishtim bears striking parallels to the flood myths found in other ancient cultures, and that includes the biblical story which, of course, you and I believe that that biblical story came down from these Mesopotamian texts, sure, from these Mesopotamian texts.
Joe:Sure, and you know, when you get to this story with Gilgamesh and Enkidu, they form a friendship after Gilgamesh defeats them in the Feats of Strength, and the two of them set off on a six-day journey to the fabled Cedar Forest, where they confront and defeat its guardian, humbaba, who is also known as Awaba in early Sumerian tales, and they proceed to cut down the sacred cedar trees. So in retaliation, the goddess Ishtar sends the bull of heaven to slay the two of them. However, they are the ones who do the slaying and the bull gets killed. And it is said that Enkidu actually hurls the right thigh at Ishtar, which really infuriates her and further insults her. So the bull is a familiar symbol in the Old Testament. It represents divine wrath and power, as well as a sacrifice to atone for sin.
Joe:So we're seeing a similar sort of symbol being brought into this story. So this part unfolds across tablets 4 and 5, while the part about Ishtar being insulted that is detailed in tablet 6. So, following these events, Gilgamesh, renowned for his fame and adored in his luxurious attire, captures the attention of Ishtar, who approaches him with an offer of love. However, Gilgamesh spurns her adamantly, rejects her, hurling insult, angry, and retreats to the heavens and implores her father, Anu, the sky god, to grant her that. Bowlu must die by tragic illness, but not Gilgamesh. He is kept alive and Enkidu is the one who is sacrificed. So again we have this sort of imagery of sacrifice, another biblical theme that is common to this story.
Laurie:Enkidu sounds like a martial art, doesn't it? It does. So, yeah, you mentioned the cedar forest. Well, there's something particularly significant to add a connection to the Bible. The cedar forest is regarded as a magnificent domain of the gods in Mesopotamian mythology. In Tablet 4, it says that Gilgamesh used wood from these trees to help construct the city of Uruk, and I want to emphasize this point that we're talking about the gods of ancient Mesopotamia. But the biblical connection I'm referring to is Yahweh's fondness for the cedar forests of Lebanon that we find in Psalms 29:5, 2 Kings 14: 9, and Ezekiel 17:3. This creates a striking link between the Hebrew God Yahweh's affinity for it and the Sumerian God's affinity for it Gods like Utu Shamish, which, of course, could be a comparison to who Yahweh really is, utu Shamish.
Joe:And even parts of Solomon's temple were made from the timber of the cedars of Lebanon, as God commands Solomon in 2 Chronicles 2: 8, and 2 Kings 19: 23, to send messengers there to acquire it. Psalm 104: 16 says that God planted the cedar trees there, but his very voice can break them into pieces. Says that God planted the cedar trees there, but his very voice can break them into pieces. So here again is this imagery and this theme of divine presence in the same place, with Gilgamesh and Kedu entering. It is said to be a place that exhibits ethereal power. During the Middle Ages, many monasteries were built in the area of the cedars of Lebanon, as these trees were believed to be the cedars of God and were thought to hold secrets of the supernatural. So after Enkidu dies, gilgamesh falls into despair as the story is going on and he is now alone and he begins to fear his own death. Now this is the second half of the saga, in which Gilgamesh now seeks to find the answer to the meaning of life and he wanders through the wilderness, both physically and philosophically, questioning his own purpose in it. Again, another biblical theme of wandering through the wilderness, these sort of parts of the stories. They're similar and they pop up in many different forms in archaic mythology. And they pop up in many different forms in archaic mythology.
Joe:And it is here that Gilgamesh begins to ponder why he himself must one day die and if immortality is at all possible. And this is a universal mystery of which all humans wrestle, and the story shows that no one is exempt from it, not even a demigod giant like Gilgamesh. So at this point he goes on a long and dangerous journey across desert and sea, wandering to the ends of the earth, to search for the answer on how to find this immortality. And he is looking for Utnapishtim, because he heard earlier in the story that the gods have granted him everlasting life. And this is the one who seems to be the same guy as Noah, since he had survived the great flood. And after going through some bizarre encounters along the way, including coming upon giant scorpions, Gilgamesh finally meets Utnapishtim somewhere, in a place called the far away, at the mouth of all rivers.
Joe:and when he meets him, he meets him almost by happenstance, when coming upon the shore, Utnapishtim relays the whole account. And when he meets him, he meets him almost by happenstance when coming upon the shore and the Pashtun relays the whole account of what happened at the time of the flood and how he and his wife survived it by building a ship as instructed by Ea, who was also Enki. And as for the question of how Gilgamesh can attain eternal life from just like Utnapishtim, what he is told is not very encouraging, is it?
Laurie:Yeah, no, yeah. Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh to try staying awake, sleep for six days and seven nights straight, and he almost does it, but then falls asleep right at the last minute before the end of the time period. And Utnapishtim pretty much tells him that death is inevitable, and at that, no matter how great or accomplished, a human cannot keep from dying. So Utnapishtim's wife tells him to have mercy on Gilgamesh and to explain to him how there is a special plant that will give him immortality, and the problem is that it is at the bottom of the ocean.
Joe:Yeah, that doesn't stop Gilgamesh. Is that it is at the bottom of the ocean. Yeah, that doesn't stop Gilgamesh. Somehow, he finds this spot in the ocean that is obscurely called the sea that surrounds the far and away, and he uses a big rock to weigh himself down to the ocean floor where he finds the plant. However, he doesn't trust it, so he decides to take it back to Uruk and to test it out on an old man to see if it will rejuvenate him. In other words, he loses faith. So, while he was traveling back to his home city, he does fall asleep, and then a big snake comes by and eats the magic elixir plant.
Joe:So here we have the snake, it says, in the Garden of Eden, being portrayed as the cleverest and craftiest of creatures. The literary element is the same, and many scholars interpret the portrayal of the snake to elicit the same thoughts in the mind of the reader as the portrayal in the Bible. Again, it's the same story piece, the same sort of picture, and ultimately Gilgamesh learns that it is through leaving a legacy, something by which he will always be remembered, that he achieves his immortality. Therefore, he spends the rest of his days building up his home city of Uruk, so that it will stand as a testament to his greatness and his abilities. And that is pretty much the reason we see so many people of influence and fame leaving behind large monuments, most of them made out of stone right.
Laurie:Right, and you know, you mentioned a snake and its comparison. It's like after the snake had tempted Eve, and then Eve tempted her husband, had them to eat of the fruit, and then they became knowing of the fruit and then they became knowing. Uh, that's when god kicked them out of the garden, which means that, remember what he said we must kick them out just because who, who knows? They may now eat of the tree of life. So, because of the snake, they were kicked out of the garden and they weren't able to have, um, the chance at eternal life or immortality. So it is like you said, it's like the same story. But that's the comparison.
Laurie:And this epic drives home the undeniable truth that, no matter who we are, we will all die. This is a natural part of life. While our bodies perish, our true essence, our consciousness, from the garden, I guess, may not and the true self, like the driver of a car, operates our physical form. You know, at night our body rests until our inner being wakes it up, motivating us to act. Just as a car requires maintenance, our body needs proper nutrition, exercise and sleep to function well. So Gilgamesh didn't understand this concept and he was looking at immortality in the way that a physical body lives forever, like the way it is with the gods. So if the supernatural does exist, then how did it start? How did it begin? And did God create it and inhabit it? Or, you know, was it already there before God, even depending on how you see God. So if God is, say, an advanced extraterrestrial, did he slash? They grasp the supernatural due to superior knowledge that they already know about it. Well, some scientists one day human scientists uncover and explain immortality scientifically.
Joe:Right and this saga. It also resonates across cultures and across time, and not only because of this symbolism that we're talking about, but because of its emotional connection that is found through the experiences of shared conflict, deep sadness and personal loss. The bond between Gilgamesh and Enkidu emphasizes the transformative power of friendship and trust, while at the same time, gilgamesh's obstinate and almost desperate quest for immortality is manifested in his soul-searching and in the existential fears that are as relevant today as they were many millennia ago. This is a universal idea, and it makes this a valuable text for helping us all to better understand how the interpersonal experiences that we have unite humanity on many levels.
Joe:In contemporary literature, cinema and art, the echoes of the Epic of Gilgamesh are often pretty evident. The storyline is a familiar one. According to the American author Joseph Campbell in his work on comparative mythology, the archetype of the hero and his journey can trace many of his roots to the Mesopotamian narratives. Let's just think of the beloved books we have, you know, where the protagonist, whether fictional or non-fictional, must undergo profound transformations, must conquer fears to reach a goal or embark on quests for ultimate truths. Just think of Beowulf or Frodo in Lord of the Rings or the conquer fears to reach a goal, or embark on quests for ultimate truths. Just think of Beowulf or Frodo in Lord of the Rings, or the Pevensie children in the Chronicles of Narnia, or even Don Quixote. These are classics because of how they depict the heart of the human condition fear, love, sorrow. And they may all have the groundwork of their character arcs from what is found in the telling of the tales about Gilgamesh.
Laurie:Right and as diverse cultures around the world come into closer contact, some of these archaic stories, like Gilgamesh, can help us function as a significant connection between the ancient Near East and the modern world. Its themes of cultural exchange and emerging of mythologies highlight the interconnectedness of human societies. In educational settings, museums and literary studies, the epic serves as a resource for understanding ancient civilizations. Additionally, its rediscovery in the 19th century and its translation into modern languages have renewed interest in ancient Mesopotamian heritage, and this has led to increased recognition of the region's contributions to world history, art and science.
Joe:Well, it is all deeply philosophical and grappling with questions at the heart of all of our religious and spiritual inquiry. Gilgamesh's quest for immortality, driven by the loss of his friend, echoes universal concerns about death that we all have, as well as the meaning of life and the possibility of transcending all of this material existence into another realm, an afterlife. These themes are the basis of all of our scriptural beliefs and they resonate with contemporary religious discussions, and they offer a common ground for diverse faith traditions. Some scholars have interpreted Utnapashtim's flood narrative as evidence of there being shared mythological roots among all of the pagan religions and Abrahamic faiths. This kind of overlap helps to support and encourage the exploration of the shared cultural traditions out there.
Laurie:As we all know, modern spirituality frequently draws from ancient texts for inspiration and guidance. The Epic of Gilgamesh provides insights that can be applied to contemporary life. It highlights the temporary nature of human achievements and the importance of relationships consistent with various religious traditions and teachings. Additionally, the epic's portrayal of gods and their interactions with humanity invites reflection on the nature of divinity and the relationship between the sacred and the profane, For interfaith dialogues and spiritual retreats. The Epic of Gilgamesh may serve as a touchstone for exploring such profound questions in a non-dogmatic and all-inclusive manner.
Joe:Yeah, and even today, the story remains a centerpiece of world literature and a vital tribute to human civilization, and its historical accuracy provides valuable insights into archaic Mesopotamian culture, while its universal themes inspire and challenge modern audiences and in today's cultural and religious settings. It bridges the past and the present, offering timeless wisdom and a shared space for dialogue and individual or group reflection. And as we navigate an increasingly interconnected world, the Epic of Gilgamesh can remind us of the enduring power of how stories can shape our understanding of ourselves and the world around us. So that will do it for today, and we hope you all enjoyed this episode.
Joe:And if you would like what we do here, please share this podcast with your family and friends. We would greatly appreciate it if you could share the word about what we do here. Also, check out your YouTube channel as well and subscribe to it for more content. So, anyway, join us next time when we have a great discussion that I think you all really enjoy. It's about something called the Golden Dome. Some of you may have already heard about it. At one time it was better known as Strategic Defense Initiative, so we want to explore what exactly it is and what the future holds for it.
Laurie:Yes, joe and I will delve deeper into this whole thing and discuss how the ideas for this all came together long ago, how the ideas for this all came together long ago, and is there an extraterrestrial connection from ancient times to all of this? So listen to our next episode in a few weeks and you'll find out.
Joe:And until then, folks, please visit our website at alien talk podcastcom for more information about our shows, and I hope it was your support. Thank you for listening today, stay safe and stay curious.
