Alien Talk Podcast
Alien Talk Podcast
Interstellar Visitor 3I-Atlas: Science, Speculation, and Signs
A fast, green-tinged visitor just knifed into our skies—and it isn’t playing by the usual comet rules. We’re talking about 3I Atlas, the third confirmed interstellar object on a hyperbolic path through our solar system, and it’s stirring up everything from sober comet science to bold claims of cloaked spacecraft. We dig into the data you can hang your hat on—eccentricity, non‑gravitational acceleration, color shifts, and composition—and the places where the story goes fuzzy, including that eyebrow‑raising course change and unusual outgassing profile.
From Oumuamua’s puzzling push to Borisov’s classic cometary coma, we chart how each interstellar visitor has tested what we think we know. Avi Loeb’s solar sail hypothesis gets a fresh look beside mainstream models of outgassing, radiation pressure, and gravitational assists. We also explore why the Oort Cloud remains an inference rather than a portrait, how spectroscopy shapes consensus, and where the limits of current telescopes leave room for speculation without surrendering rigor. Along the way, we trace the human side of uncertainty: how trust, skepticism, and media incentives shape public belief when evidence is partial.
If cosmic mysteries spark your imagination, you’ll appreciate the wider lens too—how ancient imagery like Wormwood echoes modern impact science, why artists painted “piloted stars,” and what a real first contact would demand from our institutions. No sensationalism, just a clear walk through the strongest evidence, the smartest counterpoints, and the open questions worth watching as Atlas swings past the Sun.
Enjoy the ride, then tell us what you think: comet, probe, or something we haven’t named yet? If this conversation got you thinking, follow, share with a curious friend. Also, leave a review to help more listeners find the show.
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Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us on Alien Talk Podcast. Today we're back after a pretty lengthy hiatus. Last time we were with you was late August, I think. So we'll start by saying it is good to return to the show and to share with you our exploration and discussion of pertinent topics that have been sparking interest within the fields of ufology and extraterrestrial studies. Now one that has been in the headlines quite a bit over the past few months is the discovery of an interstellar object within our solar system. It is said to be interstellar, meaning it has a point of origin that many astronomers believe is from beyond the region of space in which our sun and its planets are situated. So, it seems to be traversing the space that spans the distance, the very vast distance from one star system to another. It is called 3I- Atlas and was detected just this past July at the Rio Hurtado Observatory in Chile and the Palomer Observatory in San Diego, part of a network overseen by NASA through Cal-Tech, and Laurie, It is actually the third of such interstellar objects to enter our solar system since 2017.
Laurie:Right, Joe. And uh the first one was Oumuamua, technically called 1I-Oumuamua, with the letter I used to designate it as interstellar. And we discussed that one a couple years now, maybe a few years ago. And the name is derived from the Hawaiian word for scout, and it was discovered through the Haleakalala Observatory in Hawaii. And the second one was two-eyed Borisov in uh August of 2019, which was named after the amateur astronomer in Russia, Gennaidy Borizov, who was the uh first to observe it. Unlike Oumuamua, which had the characteristics of an asteroid, Borizov was surrounded by a large orb of dust and gas. We call it a coma, which made it more like a comet.
Joe:Yeah, we didn't discuss much about that one. However, 3I-Atlas is similar to Borisov and that it behaves like a comet. And like the other two, this one has been closely analyzed by both the Hubble and Webb Space Telescopes to obtain more accurate estimates of its size and composition. It has been calculated that Atlas is 3.5 miles long and about a mile wide, making it big enough to cause a severe catastrophe if it were to impact Earth. Remember, the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs 66 million years ago was thought to have been about six miles in diameter. So, this is roughly half that size, and it would definitely cause much devastation if it were to impact our planet. Fortunately, it seems now the closest it will come to us is about 150 million miles, and that'll occur sometime near the end of this year, assuming no change is on its course.
Laurie:Right. Now, now there has been uh some debate in academic forums about you know what 3i Atlas might really be, as it is not behaving like a regular comet, as they say, at least according to some calculations. So some aspects of it are significantly different, and this has led some to reassess what we understand about near-Earth orbits. While most astronomers considered three eye atlas to be indeed a comet that wandered into the inner solar system from interstellar space, a small yet vocal minority, including the renowned Israeli physicist Savi Loeb, entertains the possibility that it is not a natural celestial body at all, but perhaps one of the of uh alien origin. And if not a traveling spacecraft, then it is possibly some drifting piece of space jump from another world. But this divergence and in uh interpretation raises questions not only about what three eye Atlas truly is, but also about how we as a society decide what to believe when faced with the limits of our own perception and knowledge. So consider how much space junk we have jettisoned above the earth as well as above the moon and other planets. There are literally tons of stuff floating around up there, things ranging in size from a bolt to a school bus. So suppose we ditch rocket stages and satellites and component modules and panels in the course of our space exploration. In that case, it's not too unexpected that an extraterrestrial civilization would also need to release excess and unneeded material that would, you know, ditch for essentially eternity.
Joe:And I would say if they were more advanced civilization, they would have even more space junk than we do because they would just have more operations and applications in space than we do, and we have a lot, just our own human race here on planet Earth, and we have, like you said, tons of material up there. A civilization that has been embarking on space missions for perhaps centuries. Just imagine how much more so they would have drifting around. So we know that about meteors, asteroids, and comets. Those are the three primary celestial bodies that orbit the sun and can become near-Earth objects if they come into view in the night sky. And three eye atlas really doesn't fit into the categories these three uh objects because they aren't originating in regions of space where astronomers would expect them to. Amoa Moa and Borisov also didn't. And it's the name of this three eye atlas is after the acronym for asteroid terrestrial impact last alert system. That's NASA's program for detecting and surveying near-Earth objects to assess the potential for planetary impact. It was started back in 2015. Now, what makes astronomers believe atlas is interstellar is because of what is called a hyperbolic trajectory. One of the characteristics used in orbital mechanics to describe motion is something called eccentricity, and that is the ratio of how two celestial bodies deviate from one another in a circular orbit. So an eccentricity of zero is a perfect circle, and any value between zero and one describes an ellipse. A value of one is a parabola, and something greater than one is a hyperbola. The eccentricity of a Oumuamua was estimated to be 1.12, supposedly the highest number ever assigned by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Borisov was 3.4. 3I- Atlas is at 6.3. This means it has a very curved path to make it hyperbolic, and that it really doesn't seem to be orbiting our sun, but instead is more like shooting through the solar system from some other point originating beyond our solar system, some other point in the galaxy. So we must ask, why would it be an alien craft?
Laurie:So we see, as in the case with Oumuamua, that there are accelerations that have baffled experts because they aren't following mathematical predictions in their orbit around the sun. So it appears to be speeding up and slowing down in ways that are pretty much unpredictable. So the majority of astronomers and planetary scientists view 3I-Atlas as a comet based on its observed trajectory appearance and its behavior. Scientific consensus forms not out of dogma, but through the careful accumulation of evidence, the spectroscopic data, orbital patterns, and photometric studies, all of which so far align with our understanding of natural comets. These icy bodies, remnants of solar system formation, are known to enter the inner solar system on unusual trajectories, sometimes even from interstellar space. As of right now, it is estimated to be 233 million miles from Earth, and after October 29th, it will reach its uh its perihelion, its closest point to the sun, and it won't be visible at all until after November 9th, and will be closest to the Earth on December 19th. However, some alternative theorists highlight the statistically uh unusual approach, vectors of Oumuamua, Borizov, and now 3I- Atlas, suggesting that their trajectories are not random and may reflect an entered uh an intentional or a designed origin. Now, Avi Loeb and a handful of other scientists suggest that not all interstellar visitors can be easily explained away by natural origins. So Loeb famously pointed that Oumuamua, our first confirmed interstellar object observed back in 2017, exhibited anomalies, a lack of outgassing, unusual acceleration, and a trajectory inconsistent with typical comets or asteroids. In his book, Extraterrestrial, Loeb speculated it could be an alien probe or a piece of alien technology. So can you imagine what our society would be like right now if NASA or the Pentagon had told us back in October 2017 that Oumuamua was an alien spacecraft and would be arriving on our planet in six months?
Joe:Well, that's a good question. It could be that it would it's something that would bring all the world together to deal with what would be seen as a complete change in the course of human history, something that would unite us all in our commonality as a human species. We'd like to believe that. However, there is a significant, substantial risk that it would instill a lot of panic and chaos, and unfortunately, even further division. I mean, the pandemic didn't bring humanity together very well in terms of the way we see ourselves within the grand scheme of things. So I don't know if a confirmed alien arrival here on earth would make us respond any differently. I suppose it could go either way, just depending on the specific circumstances of all of it. So, Oumuamua and Borisov are you know now moving further and further away from our solar system. And from what we've learned, they seem more likely than not to be natural objects. And granted, we never got any good close information, no close up data to really kind of make that assessment or get a good look at it.
Laurie:Yeah, I mean, all we have are good, I guess some gifts that they've uh put out, but to show the how close in proximity it came. But you know, these claims, however, often rest on interpretations of limited data and rely on hypothetical motives or technologies. Uh for the public, then the nature of three eye atlas and any cosmic visitor is largely inaccessible, right? Most do not have powerful telescopes or advanced degrees in astrophysics. We are we are compelled to trust uh consensus of experts or in moments of skepticism to seek out other interpretations. So the problem arises when evidence is ambiguous or when extraordinary claims are made without exceptional evidence. So we have to choose who to believe. Do we believe NASA/slash government or do we believe the Harvard professors and others like them? So, in an article published by Union Rail uh Rail on September 19, 2025, Laura by O'Laura M, she discusses the intriguing claims of 20 scientists regarding 3I- Atlas. They suggest that it could actually be a spacecraft that is cloaked by its unusual trajectory and composition. Avi Loeb argues that the variations in its acceleration might indicate a controlled movement, implying that an intelligent entity could pilot it. Additionally, some scientists propose that hidden probes might be traveling within natural comets, serving as a means of uh transportation. So like other comets that have visited may have also had these probes inside of them.
Joe:Right, and to kind of you know illustrate what you're talking about. This would be like a a spacecraft that is covered by what looks like a natural object. So it it's you know a constructed, you know, uh craft, but it's not perceived or detected as such. Uh it's able to make a deception upon visual and analytical you know data that make it look like it is just a comet when really it's a craft, kind of like a spacecraft within an actual object, or at least that's how it's projecting itself to look to any kind of sensors or uh telescopes. And this kind of reminds me of a a very fascinating painting. It's called the crucifixion fresco and it dates back to 1350, and it's located in the Viskoski Cani Monastery in Kosovo over in Serbia. And in the right top right corner of this fresco, there is a fig figure seated inside what is seems to be a star, giving the impression that this being is piloting this star. And on the left side of this fresco is another figure who seems to be piloting what looks like a comet. So, these are you know two human figures, or they're clearly human figures inside what look like to be comets. So this is kind of like the idea we're trying to present here is that the comets themselves are being steered. The comets are the spacecrafts, at least that's how it's being perceived by our detection.
Laurie:Yeah, and it's in if you take a take the picture and zoom in on a picture of 3I-Atlas, it's almost the exact same form as that guy you're talking about in that inside that comet-looking painting. So it certainly raises some interesting questions. I mean, could it be that people from the medieval period were trying to how you know how being can travel or they're trying to explain how a being can travel and come to Earth in comet-like vessels? When often, well, you know, we often see similar depictions in Renaissance artwork. Just as ancient Biblical writers lacked the vocabulary to explain their observations, so too did these artists incorporate their understanding of unknown flying objects into their paintings. So fascinating, isn't it?
Joe:Yes, indeed. And as of September 26th, experts have noted that the behavior of three eye atlas does not match that of other comets they've tracked in the past. It's also the fastest one that they've seen so far. It has a speed of 130,000 miles per hour. With it being in a hyperbolic orbit, it is not gravitationally tethered to the sun. So several intriguing questions are being raised, and one of them is about its composition. There's a high presence of nickel and a lower presence of iron, which is not typical of the metallic composition of comets. So it's also emitting more carbon dioxide and uh like CO2 and OH. OH is hydroxide. It's emitting more of those uh substances than water. And it's even spectroscopically shifted color, going from red hue to green hue. This could indicate changes in velocity. And the latest buzz is that it has dramatically altered its course. This has led astrophysicists to speculate that it is of unnatural origin, given this 17-degree trajectory change in a 48-hour time frame, which is significant. And this has prompted intensified monitoring by Jet Propulsion Laboratory. So, despite these concerns, some argue that the trajectory adjustments could actually be the result of outgassing from a comet, you know, changes in gravitational pull as it's going by the planets. And but sometimes, you know, I wonder about you know Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth. Uh, he just recently had this unprecedented meeting in Quantico, Virginia, with all 800 the military's top brass, all the 06s and above. And uh that is rather unusual. I never heard of a a meeting like that where the Secretary of Defense calls all the generals and all the admirals into a meeting in Quantico. So it makes you wonder, huh?
Laurie:Yeah, it does. Well, you know, a lot of people think, well, it's because World War III is about to start, and because we're we have our hands in, you know, in the dealings with the Venezuela now and the drug cartels and everything that's going on over in the Middle East and then Russia and in uh Ukraine and you know, so which yeah, could be, but it also could be that there's something about through three eye atlas that they know that we, the public, do not know. And with you talking about that CO2 and all that stuff, like I mean, these uh these unusual characteristics suggest that three eye atlas may have an industrial, a artificial origin rather than being a natural comet. So and you know, producing the you know, you know, releasing the uh the middle through you know photochemical processes as it approaches the sun. So and now the speed I as it as it's coming towards Mars, I think they said now it's like 200,000 miles per hour. So it's weird how it's accelerating that that much. So but I've been uh you know pondering all this too. So look, we're not definitely saying that three i Atlas is an alien ship. I mean, we just don't know for sure, but we can't entertain the possibility. So remember the first interstellar visitor was Omo Moa, which that translates to scout. So it makes sense to send the first one as a scout to gather you know reconnaissance photos, and then came the uh the the follow-up probe, which is Borizov, for a closer look. And as they say, the third time's a charm, right? So you can see how the timing of the first two allowed them to fly in close proximity to our planet. So how could that be just a coincidence, you know, and for it to come in, meet the planet, meet Earth at its just as it's approaching, it's like it's taking pictures and then it takes back off into space. Same thing with the second one, Borizov. It comes in and does like it kind of meets Earth, doesn't hit it, but rides alongside of it for a little bit of a of a distance, Earth goes to the left and then hit this thing goes off to the right. It's it's amazing. So, you know, but for the sake of argument, if they indeed are intelligently designed, you know, does that mean that we might be on the brink of our modern day first contact? Or you know, maybe the much anticipated second coming of Christ?
Joe:Yeah, that's an intriguing idea to consider. Atlas is predicted to reach us around December 19th, which coincidentally aligns closely with the time historically associated with the Star of Bethlehem. And while we don't know the exact date of Christ's birth, it's kind of interesting to note that it has been nearly 2,000 years since that time, and now this comet is making its appearance around our civilization when we've had recognized it as significant. We identify what this means as an interstellar object. And additionally, there are historical records that indicate that, you know, the like the Chinese, they've documented a comet around 5 AD. So did Josephus, the Jewish historian. He mentioned a comet that reportedly circled the earth for an entire year, and this is all around the time of Christ, around the first century. And this raises fascinating questions about the intersections between astronomy and our historical narratives.
Laurie:Yeah, and we're not on here to give out these, you know, the the rapture is going to take place like tomorrow. I rolled my eyes and I had a cringe moment when started seeing these posts on social media. The rapture is going to occur September 23rd, and that's it.
Joe:Came and went.
Laurie:Came and went, as we said before. We've been hearing about the end times and the rapture since we were kids. So, but maybe the gods, maybe the gods of our earthy religions are returning to uh to restore order to our civilization and to, as the Bible says, I guess, separate the chaffe from the wheat, so to speak. So, I mean, who is going to be considered good and who is going to be considered evil? I mean, honestly, I don't believe those who riot and cause anarchy uh by going against the established law and order, the the rule of uh of law, which the uh ancient gods, if they really are ancient alien beings, you know, they implemented these laws for the good of society. So, so listen carefully to this scripture verse, though, and makes you wonder if we are in the in times in II Timothy 3: 1- 5 and think about what is happening in our society today. So it says, but know this that in the last days perilous times will come, for men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pressure, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God. Now, by reading that, seeing the comments, and watching the videos produced on social media today, you can see all of these things listed in the scriptures unfolding. You can see you can see all this stuff unfolding in in from people, you know, like the uh the rioters, the Antifa people, all of that. You can see all of this stuff coming out.
Joe:Right. And so we asked the question what does this have to do with the arrival of 3I-Atlas? Well, probably nothing. Uh we don't know. We you know, it's we're not saying that there is any correlation. We're just that you know, the we're obviously uh uh noticing that our times are perilous, and you know, as described in biblical prophecy, which you know talks about the end times being chaotic and you know dreadful, and then that's been the situation of humanity since the beginning of time. We have always been in this state. Actually, we we may have improved a little bit in this state, given the way things have been in past centuries. Certainly, I think our time now is I think I'd I would rather be living now than in the French Revolution, you know, something like that, or during a time of World War I and World War II. But in terms of how three I atlas might connect, uh, you know, it's the coincidence of you know having an interstellar object arrive in our solar system, the one of three within the last you know, ten years. And this makes me want to talk about the prevailing scientific understanding about the nature and origin of comets and asteroids. So there are two regions beyond what is called the heliopause of our solar system, which is beyond Pluto, very, very far away. And the one region is called the Kuiper belt, which is uh kind of like the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, but it's much more expansive where meteors are thought to move in a very slow orbit, or I should say asteroids are moving in a very slow orbit, and it's about six billion miles away. And meteors are actually the debris pieces that have blown off of comets, and of course, some of them drift close to Earth and hit the atmosphere and are seen as shooting stars at night at nighttime. The ones that reach the surface are called meteorites. Now, asteroids are larger and could be remnants of other celestial bodies that broke apart after the formation of the protoplanets. The vast majority of them are still in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, but there are you know things called Trojan asteroids that share an orbit with the planet and known in celestial mechanics as Lagrange points. And then the ones that do come close to Earth are given a special name of Apollo asteroids. Now there is another region out there called the Oort Cloud. Again, these have not been really seen, but even you know theorized. And it's supposedly the Oort Cloud is even further away than the Kuiper belt. That's about 1.7 trillion miles away, and this is where comets are thought to originate. And unlike asteroids and meteors, which are made of rocks and metals like iron and nickel, comets are also comprised of ice and gas as well. Gases like nitrogen, hydrogen, carbon dioxide, methane, and water vapor. And there's this nucleus that emits dust from what is called the coma. Now the Oort cloud is not so much a disk or a belt, but more like a sphere that encapsulates the solar system. So comets orbit the sun from just about every angle imaginable, and this material is essentially considered to be debris floating around in the solar system since the beginning of the formation, some five, I should say some 15 billion years ago. And the sizes range from granules of sand to rocks and some things as big as the entire continent of Europe. Some of them are very large, some of them very small.
Laurie:So you know, Joe, I mean, everything you just described is what we know today as scientific fact. Now, we know precisely what these things are because of our scientific breakthroughs and knowledge. You know, back in ancient times, these objects were all interpreted as stars. Everything bright and shiny in the in the night sky was a star. And we find that modern-day mainstream explanations are constantly subjected to rigorous scrutiny. Uh, scientists present findings to colleagues and they publish in peer-reviewed journals and adapt their theories in light of new contradictory evidence. And the tools of astronomy are complex and expensive, and most people must rely on the expertise and honesty of those trained to use them. So we must consider that for science to thrive, there must be skepticism and rigorous debate. You know, dissenting voices like lobes are viable because they test the robustness of mainstream explanations and occasionally lead to revolutionary discoveries. However, scientific progress demands that all apostases, whether establishment or fringe, are evaluated by the same standards of evidence. Media coverage, social networks, and public forums magnify debates about interstellar objects. Articles about possible alien craft attract ridicule, skepticism, and sometimes hostility. Not always for scientific reasons, but because the unknown can be unsettling. So humor, dismissal, and denial are common responses to ideas that challenge deeply held assumptions. And I see a lot of this on a lot of these posts about if it's an alien ship, there's a lot of laughing emojis that that people are using and they make these jokes, but that's because they, you know, they probably have this internal fear that they really don't want to accept that this thing could be an alien ship. So, but a Avi Loeb and is the Israeli American physicist at Harvard University told the Boston Globe that he believed it seemed to be manufactured in its design. And he claimed that it was not an asteroid because it is moving way too fast along a straight orbit. It cannot be an asteroid, and because there is no trail of gas or dust, it cannot be a comet. So he hypothesizes that it is a piece of equipment that drifted away from an alien civilization from another star system. And he wrote that Omoomoa was a rarity. Like it was if it was elongated, we had never uh seen any naturally occurring space object that size and that elongated. And if it was flat, we had never seen any naturally occurring space object that size and that flat. And one thing that had intrigued him was that it deviated from its trajectory and didn't act in the way that we that or that was expected. And comet comets show somewhat of a deviation, but their comas become heated by the sun to form the you know the distinctive trails, the tails rather, that are associated with with things as comets, such things as comets.
Joe:Yeah, and apparently the tail on uh 3I-Atlas is different from other comets as well. I guess uh most uh comets have tails. That are million miles long, the Earth can actually pass through tails of a comet. And apparently the tail of three eye atlas is not acting the same way. And it could be because of its uh hyperbolic trajectory, might have something to do with it. It could be about the gravitational fluctuations as it passes by planets. They're not sure, but they not they have questions about the formation of three-eye atlas' tail. And yeah, like you said, uh Abby Loeb is you know one who has been for many years postulating the notion that these interstellar objects, you know, they're interstellar, they're not from our solar system, they're from beyond, and their behavior defies what we know about objects in our own solar system. And then he's the author of the book Extraterrestrial, The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth. In that book, he wrote that a significant portion of the scientific community uh found the data about a Moa Moa very puzzling and that they couldn't get the evidence to correlate it with a normal comet or asteroid, mainly because of its hyperbolic orbit, but also its very high velocity and unexplained acceleration. So he went on to suggest that a Moa Moa could have been more of a, like you said, a disk, this disc being akin to a solar sail. The idea of a solar sail is that it is utilizes solar, what they call solar wind, which is like the uh mass ejection of high energy particles from the sun, and essentially harnessing this to give it a boost in speed. Uh, this has been depicted in some science fiction movies. So I've seen it where they use sails in space, and these solar sails are using what is called solar wind to help propel the craft. And he actually, Abby Lolov actually told the New Yorker in January of 2021 that the only way the object could be propelled by solar radiation is if this sail was extremely thin, no thicker than one millimeter, with a very low density and a comparatively large surface area. So such an object would function as a sail, one powered saying by high energy particles rather than by wind as we think of it. So he's saying that the observations of a Moa Moa seem to fit that's that model that he's talking about, making him believe that it was launched by extraterrestrial intelligence.
Laurie:Yeah, that solar cell ship reminds me of Count Dooku's ship in uh Star Wars.
Joe:That is one I was thinking of, yes.
Laurie:Yeah. So according to the late author and researcher Lloyd Pye, uh, the uh concept of the Oort cloud is a is a joke to him because he claimed that comets are a mystery. And the issue with comets is that they have uh water inside them. So he stated that comets came about after a giant-sized planet collided with another large planet, one that was loaded with water, named Tiamat, uh approximately four and a half billion years ago. So this event, as we said before on this show, is also referenced in the Babylonian in Numa Elish. This collision of the two big planets is what brought about the Earth, and it was because of it that the water from Tiamat was scattered throughout the solar system, and that it's it's from there that we get the comets. Water and hence comets do not form out in space, but instead he says they came from the explosion of colliding planets. So he he he doesn't actually believe there is an Oort cloud out there.
Joe:Yeah, and this you know, the Oort cloud, it was the idea was put forward back in the 1950s by a Dutch astronomer, after which it was named Jan Oort, and it was meant to provide a model of how comets would have elliptical orbits and yet still have these very long periods of time by which they pass the sun. And really the distance of it, you know, this 1.7 trillion miles actually puts it into our interstellar space and it's beyond a heliopause. You know, in the early 20th century, astronomers were still having trouble considering how comets move, and uh they thought that they might have parabolic trajectories and to make them very long, so they would as unlike an elliptical trajectory, which would maybe be given more of a shorter uh time period to orbit the sun, these parabolic trajectories that make it very long, making it so they only passed you know through the inner solar system maybe once every thousands of years. But you know, this also contradicted a lot of observations of other comets like Haley's comet, which uh you know orbits maybe about every hundred years, so that one is seen you know more frequently, but still a very long time. And the Oort Cloud, you know, it was it wasn't conceptualized to account for every observed object, but more or so to mathematically reconcile the graph the sun's gravitational interaction with all the distant objects in the solar system. So it's something that has not been seen or it's never been even affirmatively detected. It's more or less theorized. And really, there's been no direct observation of the Oort cloud. It like I said, it only exists in theory. And I think the question that we have to ask about why three eye atlas would not be a comet from the Oort Cloud, and that is you know, it's not behaving like comets we've noticed in in the past. I mean, if you're gonna again, if you're gonna try to say the Oort cloud is somehow a way to explain the strange orbits of objects, we have no data by which to compare it. Like you said, we don't we don't know if it really is out there. I mean, again, it's it's an idea, it could be out there, but we have no way of actually substantiating that. Nobody can say, here's a picture of the orc cloud, here's evidence of the orc cloud. It's sort of just a concept at this point.
Laurie:Yeah, so so the point is then we we can't say for certain where 3I-Atlas came from. I mean, scientific consensus is that uh the best guide we have, but it is not infallible. So it adapts in uh response to compelling new evidence. Alternative perspectives should not be dismissed, of course, uh, or out of hand. Instead, they should be subjected to the same analysis as any other scientific idea. So what what if what if the minority is right? If the alternative interpretation that three I atlas or other innocent objects are artificial were proven correct, it would be among the most profound discoveries in human history. But extraordinary claims require strong reproducible evidence. Until such evidence is found, like the apocalypse remains an intriguing speculation at this point.
Joe:So uh we consider the Book of Revelation, with its apocalyptic visions and symbolic language, has long fascinated theologians and astronomers alike. In Revelation 8: 10- 11, John the Evangelist describes a cataclysmic event, saying, The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star blazing fell like a torch from the sky on a third of heavens, or I should say the third of the rivers, and on the springs of water. The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter. That's what John wrote when he saw the stars fall from heaven. What he saw were meteorites falling through the atmosphere. He also said he saw the moon turn to blood, which is yet another complete misunderstanding of a scientific phenomenon. And because of our growth in scientific knowledge today, we understand that this object most likely could be, even if we're not exactly sure, but could very well be the appearance of a comet.
Laurie:So this passage with its vivid descriptions invites both literal and symbolic interpretations, and your question draws attention to the possibility that what John witnessed was not a star in the modern sense, but rather an astronomical body, an asteroid, a meteor or comet. So let us explore this idea uh th you know thoughtfully.
Joe:Well, when John wrote Revelation, his vocabulary for describing such astronomical phenomena was limited by the knowledge and language of his era. The Greek word you know astar was a catch-all for anything luminous in the sky. Stars as well as planets, meteors, comets, and I guess you could say even if there were spaceships, bright lights in the sky. So the notion for uh for asteroid and comet as we understand them did not exist so much in the first century language, and certainly not in the scientific understanding of the world. Another excellent example of this is you know the star of Bethlehem, you know, hovering over the area of the manger. If it were an actual event, then the description would not be of a star because stars don't hover. Stars don't move, and you don't follow stars as they're traveling across the sky. You know, they move throughout the night uh regularly because of the the way the earth is rotating, but it's not like it's right above our heads and we're following it like a like a little fairy. So, I mean, is this describing something more technological when they talk about the the star that is moving and then hovering? Is it something technological that was unknown to humankind back in the first century?
Laurie:Yeah, and that's similar to what you brought up about the historical writings of Josephus when he said, Don't you remember that comet that circled the earth for an entire year? Because we know that comets don't circle the earth. So they saw a light, but they considered it a comet. You know, that was a bright mind for the for the day back then in that era, and they thought that that was a comet. So that was possibly a spaceship that was up there during the you know the birth of Christ and whatnot, or during that whole era. So, thus, when John described, like you said, a star falling from heaven, you know, blazing like a torch, so it is plausible that he was attempting to explain the spectacle of a comet with a long fiery tail or the incandescence in of a of a meteor or asteroid entering Earth's atmosphere. So such phenomena would indeed appear as a burning object trailing light, potentially resembling a torch to these uh ancient eyes that that behold it.
Joe:Yeah, and I think they understood comets as being a little bit different than stars because of the tail, because of the glow. It's a little bit different, it sticks out. So they would identify them as different objects, uh, even if their understanding of what you know they were comp of which they were composed or how they moved wasn't completely understood. They might call that a comet as opposed to a star. Again, just to point out the difference in the in the objects in the sky. So this wormwood, you know, is it a literal thing? Is it a symbolic thing? Is it describing a cosmic event? This name evokes bitterness. And in biblical literature, wormwood is a plant, it's known for its intensely bitter taste, and it's used to symbolize sorrow and calamity, it's associated with bad things. So John writes that this star turns a third of the waters bitter and causing many deaths. So the text does not explicitly state that this is a comet or an asteroid doing this, but the imagery of something blazing, falling, and causing what would be an environmental devastation, this does resonate with descriptions of large meteors or comets impacting the Earth. Case in point, the dinosaur extinction model from 66 million years ago when a very large asteroid did collide with the Earth, and it had changed the uh ecosystem for eternity to this day. So if three eye atlas, you know, which is currently an interstellar comet, if this were to intersect our path, Earth's path, and impact it, we know the effects would be extremely catastrophic. So could this bitterness that John is talking about, the bitterness of the waters, be referring to what would be chemical changes and such that it would be the release of toxicity, substances that are poisonous and going into the water sources uh after such an impact, and of course the water being poisoned would you know be very devastating to uh not only human life but animal life and plant life, as is evidenced from what we found in the studies of paleontology in reference to the impact 66 million years ago with the extinction of dinosaurs.
Laurie:Yeah, could be. I mean, such an interpretation is speculative, but within the bounds of modern imagination, a comet or asteroid could fit John's description in ways he could not have precisely articulated back then. So, I mean, let's look again at the sequence of trumpet judgments in Revelation 8 and 9. You have the first trumpet with that one, hail and fire mixed with blood, burning a third of the earth's vegetation. Then you have the second trumpet, which is a blazing mountain, is hurled into the sea, turning a third of it to blood, killing sea life and destroying ships. And that blazing mountain came from space as well, according to the scriptures. The third trumpet is wormwood, the star slash torch that we're talking about. It falls and poisons the fresh water. The fourth trumpet is a third of the sun, moon, and stars are now darkened and diminishing light on Earth. So if something crashing into the moon, I also heard that there's a possible comet now that may come and crash into the moon, and they're concerned about that because of the damage it may cause to our to our only satellite out there right now. So, and or will some ship block out part of the sun and the moon, moon's light? So, I mean, these escal is as uh these cascading disasters could be interpreted as a as a as a poetic symbolic portrayal of divine judgment, or as a sequence triggered by astronomical events. So this significant impact causes firestorms, atmospheric pollution, and ecological devastation. The mountain ablaze might evoke an asteroid plunging into the ocean. The torch-like star could evoke a cometary impact poisoning waters, the subsequent darkness might point to atmospheric debris blocking sunlight, akin to what is theorized in uh impact winter scenarios. So the vision becomes even more extraordinary with the fifth trumpet, which is a star that falls to earth, but this star uh unlocks the abyss from which smoke and locust like creatures pour forth. So traditional interpretations see these as demonic beings, but you you propose an alternative. Could John, with his ancient worldview, have been describing the arrival of something alien, either in origin or in manifestation. The text describes unnatural entities armored and crowned swarming forth in the wake of cosmic disaster. Similarly, the uh sixth trumpet releases four angels bound at the Euphrates rivers, leading to an army with breastplates of fiery colors. You know, whether this describes further supernatural judgment, symbolic forces of conquest, or events yet to be imagined remains a matter of theological debate and speculation. But these stars come from the sky, crash to earth, and then we see these uh horde of beings that it's like I don't know, like capsules that crash, the capsules bury into the earth, and then they open up, and then all of a sudden these uh hordes of like alien beings looking like grasshoppers come out.
Joe:Yeah, it's always the connection between uh terrible things happening here on earth with things that are occurring in the in the heavens. So it's these things that happen on earth that are devastating, they start up in the sky. And that seems to be the consistent theme with with these visions with this eschatological and apocalyptic literature. And of course, we understand Revelation's visions are highly symbolic and they're open to multiple interpretations on spiritual and literal levels, usually a blend of both. And many theologians caution against linking current astronomical uh sightings and objects in the sky to specific prophecies. I tend to agree. The text's primary purpose is to convey ultimate truths about you know spiritual matters, about moral judgment, about personal redemption, uh, you know, essentially the universality of the gospel, hope rather than you know, hope for mankind. They do this more so than serve as some kind of coded forecast about astronomical calamities in the future. So I think it's both natural and and fruitful to explore how ancient visions might align with modern scientific understanding, but it's such a broad you know umbrella that we're talking about with you know the understanding of history, astronomy, philosophy, and ancient, you know, uh mysticism, ancient mythology, it encompasses all of that together. So you know, I would agree that you know these aren't one-to-one correlations of whatever is in revelation to what is happening, because you know, we've had these things happen uh on our earth you know since the beginning of time. In fact, we talk about the extinction of the dinosaurs, that was long before humans were even on earth, long before any scriptural writings were were put in place.
Laurie:Right. So, John's vision of Wormwood reads with the awe and mystery of celestial catechism, he wrote as one awestruck by the heavens using the vocabulary and imagery available to him. You know, whether wormwood is a literal comet, asteroid, or a symbol of divine judgment, the passage remains a powerful testament to the age-old human impulse to find meaning in the stars and to interpret the uh unknown through the lens of vision, faith, and manifestation.
Joe:Yeah, so whether you know 3I-Atlas or any other comet will ever bear the name Wormwood, I guess that's a question that you know is going to be shrouded in mystery. Uh it is much about the philosophy of science as it is about esotericism. So, we must strike a balance between you know trusting expert consensus and also remaining open to unconventional ideas while always demanding rigorous evidence. And if three Atlas is anything other than a comet, then the search for truth depends on critical thinking, uh, humility, and uh on a willingness to question assumptions, even those of institutionalized science, which I think we we do here on this show.
Laurie:Yeah, so I mean, the message of the Book of Revelation is not solely about the mechanics of a disaster, but about uh spiritual preparedness, the consequences of human actions in the hope of the ultimate renewal. But anyway, some will say that's impossible. But is it, according to astrobiologist Karen J. Meach, who spoke at a TED conference or technology, entertainment and design, where the world's thinkers get to share their ideas to the world in 18 minutes or less about technology, science, design, business, and other topics can be applied to the problems facing our world today. Mech discussed how the Pan Stars, the S T A R R S Telescope, Panoramic Survey Telescope and Rapid Response System, detected Omo Moa back on October 19, 2017. And naturally, everyone was quite excited about the idea of some something coming from outside our solar system, which is why they wanted to name it Rama. Now, if now, at first I thought this was strange for these astronomers to want to name it after a fictional spaceship. The fact is, rendezvous with Rama may have been akin to Clark's prophecy that detailing the arrival of a Moomoa. So, as you said, the there was a book that was published in 1973, and it described a massive cylindrical-shaped ship that came tumbling into our solar system near the sun. And astronauts wanted to find out what it was. It was airily similar indeed to how a moomoa seemed to arrive. And it came into our solar system from a very high angle and it traveled by the sun and passed on an inside of Mercury and then by Earth at a distance of only 15 million miles. Then it did something really strange. It accelerated as it rushed past Earth. So, how did it propel itself out of here? So, what if the civilization that sent Atlas is one of the ones that received our first radio signal transmitted by City back in 1974, almost 50 years ago? And within 30 to 40 years, they were advanced enough to send the craft to the to the source of those radio frequencies. So, yes, and I think they just I mean it is possible for it to have been sent here by an advanced alien race from somewhere in the Lyra constellation, since that's where it uh it travels from. And it would not be impossible because I believe now they're saying that they're thinking that this wow signal that they received back several years ago, a couple of decades ago, could be from 3i Atlas.
Joe:It's fascinating to consider, really. And then this, you know, there's a hypothesis that you know the reason Omoa Moa accelerated the way it did back in 2017 is that was due to release of nitrogen gas, essentially gave it a boost. That that was the boost it needed. And its close passage to the sun would have increased its surface temperature, causing ice to sublimate and you know allow these streams of nitrogen to escape and thus propel it in such a manner, enough even to alter its course, so that it would have you know an increase in speed, and if it went to a more narrow trajectory past the perihelion. So no such streams of gas were detected. That's one of the problems with the hypothesis. NASA researchers believe that it, you know, if there were enough gas pressure, it could have caused an increase without being detectable. Again, this is now getting rather speculative, as there's no evidence to support that. And Avi Loeb and Shmuel Bailey postulated in an article back in 2018 in the astrophysical journal letters that the acceleration of Oumuamua may have been from the pressure of particle radiation from the sun. And that's what Avi Loeb mentioned, the uh notion of this you know solar wind sail, is you know, and kind of just coming down to the point where they they have a lot of uh speculation, a lot of ideas. Most of them are not really supported by uh data that's been you know detected or uh recorded.
Laurie:Yeah, and he also theorized that because of data collection from the Kepler satellite, there are about a quarter of stars slash suns that have Earth-like planets orbiting them, and and that they may have had previous civilizations. And Oumuamua may very well be a relic, you know, along with Borisov and 3i Atlas, uh relics of those so-called civilizations that may have produced, that may have produced it, so which could uh have been some type of uh engine design and is now you know just a piece of space junk. But like I said, I cannot get the trajectory out of my head on all three of them, and therefore, you know, I find it difficult to believe it doesn't have operational intelligence behind it, and it could be wrong, of course. And so, I mean, but but why would anyone want to ridicule those who think it may be an extraterrestrial craft? Because at some point it's just as good a theory as as any other, because we're if they pass by, if Tri Atlas continues on, we're still not gonna know. We're just gonna uh assume that it's you know that NASA and the government was right, or we choose to believe Avi Lob. Unless it comes there and it hovers above our planet, then then we'd know.
Joe:Right. Like I said, at this point, we don't have enough data to really uh solidify any one hypothesis. There's there are many of them, and we we really lack the data to kind of back up uh all of them. The the bottom line is we don't exactly sure what a Moa Moa, Borisov, or Atlas really are. In most ways, they all appear to be natural objects, and and probably are, yet they are moving in ways that Newtonian physics does not predict. So we have to recognize that for what it is. Could something else be happening? And if so, you know, then what? And what if it does turn out to not be natural? How do we respond to that, and how do we mentally process that?
Laurie:Well, ultimately, humanity's understanding is always provisional, awaiting the next surprise from the cosmos. And as we peer skyward, we must remember that not knowing is not the same as being deceived, and the unknown, rather than being a source of fear, can be an invitation to wonder.
Joe:Yeah, and ultimately you, the audience, must decide what you think from what has been presented by the scientific community and from people like us who are examining these s stories and and kind of going through the the information that's out there. Is three eye atlas an alien spacecraft occupied by intelligent life forms? Could it be something like a drone or a probe droid, something not biological but under the control of automation or even AI? Or is it a piece of discarded space junk from a larger spaceship, like the Starship Enterprise, somewhere far away in another system? Or is it just a measly old comet, maybe a rogue comet? I suppose we'll find out in a couple of months, you know, by Christmas. And that will that will wrap up the show for today, folks. Uh and we want to thank you all for joining us. And uh we'll we'll find out if this thing uh is what it you know what it is in a few months, and like I said, by Christmas.
Laurie:Yeah, uh well, maybe there would be a holiday song about it. Instead of Santa Claus coming to town, it'd be, you know.
Joe:Yeah, yes. 3I-Atlas is coming to town.
Laurie:Gonna find out who's not here, nice. Separate the chaffe from the wheat.
Joe:That's right. So thank you folks for joining us. Stay safe and always stay curious.
