Global Connections Conversations Podcast
Global Connections Conversations Podcast
An Afghan American Educator’s Reflection on 9/11 and Beyond Matin Royeen, PhD Chicago, Illinois, USA
Matin Royeen, PhD Chicago, Illinois, USA is an Afghan American educator who has lived in the United States during the past fifty years. He completed his Ph.D. in an interdisciplinary program incorporating psychology, counseling, multicultural and global education from the University of Cincinnati, Ohio in 1980. He has a professional degree in Occupational Therapy in the health sciences profession. In the past 40 years, Dr. Royeen has taught in different universities and served as Dean of Student Affairs in a College of Health Sciences in Virginia, USA. He has been intimately involved in diversity training, race relations in the USA, team building, group work, psychosocial training, counseling, stress management, disabilities, peace education, and reconciliation. Dr. Royeen speaks to us on the subject related to the special issue newsletter theme Educating and Collaborating for a Safe and Peaceful World edited by Dr. Joyce Pittman, WCCI USA Chapter President. WCCI’s Executive Director, Sonja Arnak describes Dr. Royeen’s brilliant contribution capturing his reflections on this topic. “Dr. Matin shares his thoughts on Afghanistan from September 11th to the recent US withdrawal. His succinct account and concluding thoughts leave us anxious to see what is going to happen next, as he shares the following hopeful thought, “We live in the 21st century and incorporating Islamic values of tolerance, reconciliation, respect for human rights and peace building in the context of the Afghan culture can be compatible in today’s world.” The conversation stimulates the need for an emphasis on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) for a safe and peaceful world.
Article Synopsis: An Afghan American Educator’s Reflection on 9/11 and Beyond Introduction. The Trauma of September 11, 2001 is still alive in the minds and hearts of those who witnessed this horrific attack of American soil with global implications. Due to our unconditional love for Afghanistan, our feelings and emotions are intrinsically tied to the politics of the moment. I believe the biggest challenge for all is how to establish a balance between our mind and heart while offering realistic solutions that could bring stability, peace and prosperity towards a dignified life for our sisters and brothers in Afghanistan.
My Presentation on Afghanistan: Ironically, on September 11, 2001, I was attending an international conference in Madrid, Spain. My presentation focused on victims of the violent conflict in my home country of Afghanistan as a result of 21 years of political upheaval.
Post 9/11 Period in Afghanistan: Since the 2001 US and allies invasion of Afghanistan, considerable progress has been made in education both for boys and girls, delivery of health services improved and the foundation of a democratic Afghanistan had been set up. Unfortunately, rampant corruption, political infighting, poor governance and disappointment of the public from their leaders created a crisis of confidence that contributed to the most recent reemergence of the Taliban fighters to power on August 15, 2021.
Wa
About WCCI The WCCI is a transnational educational organization committed to advancing the achiev
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
You can conveniently order Dr. Joyce Pittman's Memoir, Against All Odds: I Did It! through the online bookstore at Xlibris Bookstore https://www.xlibris.com/en/bookstore
or
Simply search for the book using my name, book title, ISBN, keywords, or your selected category on Barnes and Nobles or Amazon for faster delivery.
An Afghan American Educator’s Reflection on 9/11 and Beyond
Matin Royeen, PhD
Chicago, Illinois, USA
Interviewer: Joyce Pittman, PhD, WCCI Newsletter Editor and Podcast Producer
Hello, welcome to the WCCI Newsletter podcast. This is episode three in a series of podcasts to focus attention on the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) and featured newsletter authors in practice. Before we go into our interview of the day, I just want to give you a little bit of background information on the WCCI Newsletter podcast. Some of you may have viewed our podcast before and others of you are new. First of all, the purpose of this free podcast is kind of threefold.
Joyce Pittman:
It's to introduce you to WCCI, as well as to invite you to join our organization, visit our website and to attend upcoming conferences or Webinars that we might have and post on the site. We appreciate your tuning in to our speaker today. You will find two other full episodes of interviews along with an introductory episode by myself that fully describes the nature of this podcast series and more.
Joyce Pittman:
Today, we have our speaker with us today to gives us further insight into behind the scenes experiences leading to his article, An Afghan American Educator’s Reflection on 9/11 and Beyond. He's anxiously waiting to join us and we are so happy that he's here. He's a formidable and welcomed voice within not only WCCI, but around the world. His work is known by many followers. We have with us today, Dr. Matin Royeen, an Afghan Educator. Welcome, Dr. Matin.
Matin Royeen:
Thank you very much, Dr. Joyce Pittman. Pleasure.
Joyce Pittman:
Thank you. Thank you for being here. We are so excited that you're here, but before we go into our interview today, I'd like for our audience to know a little bit more about just who you are and all the wonderful things that you are doing around the world. Here we go.
Joyce Pittman:
Dr. Matin is an Afghan American educator who has lived in the United States during the past 50 years. He completed his PhD in an interdisciplinary program, incorporating psychology, counseling, multicultural and global education from the University of Cincinnati, and that happens to be in Ohio, USA, for those of you who are coming to us from different parts of the world. That was in 1980.
Joyce Pittman:
Additionally, he has a professional degree in occupational therapy, which is a part of the health sciences profession. In the past 40 years, Dr. Royeen has taught in different universities and had served as dean of students, student affairs, in the college of health sciences in Virginia, USA.
Joyce Pittman:
He has been intimately involved in the areas of diversity training, race relations in the USA, team building, group work, psychosocial training, stress management, disabilities, peace education, reconciliation, and just so much more. He has such a rich background that we are just absolutely excited to hear what he's going to say to us today.
Joyce Pittman:
In addition to that, we want you to feel free to join us in this podcast, which is featuring the interview around an article that Dr. Matin recently published in our newsletter. The theme for that newsletter was educating and collaborating for a safe and peaceful world.
Joyce Pittman:
WCCI’s executive director, Dr. Sonja Arnak, used these words to describe Dr. Royeen. My apologies for that interruption. Technology, I tell you. Dr. Arnak had this to say, "Our board member, Dr. Royeen, shares his thoughts on Afghanistan, from September 11th to the recent U.S. withdrawal. His succinct account and concluding thoughts leave us anxious to see what is going to happen next, as he shares the following hopeful thought.
Joyce Pittman:
We live in the 21st century and incorporating Islamic values and tolerance, reconciliation, respect for human rights and peacebuilding in the context of the Afghan culture, can be compatible in today's world." Wow. What a reflection? What a powerful statement? During this podcast, Dr. Royeen will continue to share what led him into the field of social activism and counseling, and of course this topic.
Joyce Pittman:
He discusses the importance of USA and other countries investing in and implementing peace-centered strategies and policies. Moreover, Dr. Royeen, discusses professional services that he offers around the world. Hopefully, this conversation will stimulate your interest, not only in the work of Dr. Matin, but also in that of the WCCI organization. We thank you so much for being here today.
Joyce Pittman:
You'll also find on the site, a synopsis of his full article, which is about five pages rich and you will find that on our website very soon, if it's not already there. We will also make the transcript of this podcast available to you with a click on the site so you'll be able to get the full interview. Welcome, Dr. Matin, are you ready to continue?
Matin Royeen:
I am ready, Dr. Pittman. Thank you very much.
Joyce Pittman:
Okay. Is there anything that you would like to say before we get started with the interview?
Matin Royeen:
Well, I appreciate the very fine and kind introduction about my personal and professional life. I appreciate it.
Joyce Pittman:
Thank you very much. We appreciate you. Let us get to our questions. I think we'll just continue with this conversation about your work. My first question for you is, what kind of research do you do, Dr. Matin, and how long did you spend researching with this article before you submitted it to our newsletter? I'm sure it didn't take much because you have such a rich background in that culture.
Matin Royeen:
Well, this is a very interesting question because as you know, I was born in Afghanistan and I tell my colleagues that even though my brain may be Western, but I left my heart in Afghanistan 50 years ago when I left the country. The plight of the Afghan people has been going on for a long time, for in fact, 43 years. I thought that this is a very important time to reflect on Afghanistan and on the political developments of the past 43 years, especially these days, we've been hearing a lot about Afghanistan again.
Matin Royeen:
The images of the Kabul International Airport, people clinging to the airplanes and trying to leave the country, the United States engagement in Afghanistan and previously other political developments in Afghanistan really is a topic that is very important for me personally and professionally as well, because we are advocates of a just world, peace and reconciliation.
Matin Royeen:
The Afghan people have suffered a great deal in the past 43 years as a result of political upheaval and violence and war, and they deserve a better opportunity to live in peace and harmony. There are many challenges still ahead. Despite the challenges, there is a proverb in Afghanistan that says the world lives on hope.
Matin Royeen:
We have to go with the hope that there will be a better future for the people of Afghanistan, despite the current humanitarian and political challenges in Afghanistan. I have been living with the Afghanistan situation since the 1980s, if I may just provide a little bit background information.
Joyce Pittman:
Yes. Of course.
Matin Royeen:
I left Afghanistan 50 years ago and I have very fond memories of a stable and peaceful Afghanistan under a monarchy of King Zahir Khan. Unfortunately, beginning in 1978, this is almost eight years after my second trip to the United States when I was at the University of Cincinnati working and completely my PhD, there was a coup in Afghanistan, a bloody coup that took the life of the first president of Afghanistan and 18 members of his family.
Matin Royeen:
Then that was the beginning of a new era of violence in Afghanistan where the people of Afghanistan or Muslims they resisted the communist regime and which also gave birth to migration and refugees in neighboring countries. In 1979, the Soviet Union in support of their client estate, the communist, decided to invade Afghanistan, which multiplied the complexity of the Afghan political situation. Then it was time for the United States.
Matin Royeen:
As you remember, it was the height of the Cold War between two super power countries, the United States and former Soviet Union. It was a good opportunity for the United States to become engaged in Afghanistan and make Vietnam out of their experience and so it continued.
Matin Royeen:
I have really experienced different episodes of Afghanistan political situation beginning in early 1980s when my wife and I moved to Washington, DC from Cincinnati, and I was very involved in Congress and also dealing with the Afghan refugees in my involvement with the leadership of Afghanistan subsequent to those, and as well as some of the leadership of freedom fighters and some members of Congress. It has been going on for a long time.
Matin Royeen:
As I've been kind of living through these events, I thought that it would be timely to really reflect and talk about this for two reasons. One is that unfortunately politics is a game that sometimes nations work for their national interests, but the humanitarian aspect goes out of sight.
Matin Royeen:
Today, the suffering of Afghan people still continues after 20 years of the U.S. involvement in Afghanistan and spending $2.1 trillion in Afghanistan. We can talk more about that. The future is at question, and with the Taliban now back in power, it has become much more complex. There is unfortunately a humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan that needs to be addressed by the international community.
Joyce Pittman:
What was the ... Wow, that is so insightful. I mean, when I read your article as the editor, when I first received it, I felt like I was getting this great history lesson that was missing.
Joyce Pittman:
Because just hearing you tell the story in your own words and from your own experience and observations, certainly adds to the richness of what has been going on in that country and bringing us up to date on what is going now, particularly as we look at our newsletter celebrating peace. Certainly, right now, as you said, there is unrest now due to this transition from one governance to another.
Joyce Pittman:
In deciding how to respond to this theme of peacemaking and the importance of peace in education, how did you see these reflections connecting to our understanding about the implications for how we prepare our learners to understand these types of events in history?
Matin Royeen:
In the past two years, I have embarked on a series of articles about leadership in Afghanistan, about peace and reconciliation in Afghanistan, and that have been published in Afghan newspapers. Additionally, in 2009 to 2011, I went to Afghanistan after 33 years and served as a senior civilian cultural advisor with the international community, with ISAF, international assistance force in Afghanistan, security force in Afghanistan.
Matin Royeen:
I was trying to promote cultural understanding in the middle of war and destruction. It is a little bit ironic. I had the opportunity to meet many generals, high officials from the international community, as well as trying to become involved in leader engagement between the international community and Afghan high officials.
Matin Royeen:
Trying to bridge the cultural gap and trying to make the most out of the situation by also teaching the leadership of the Western world about the cultural features of Afghanistan, some of the things that are very important for the Afghan people. This was quite a learning experience. In one point, we had over 100,000 American troops in Afghanistan, and there were 140,000 international troops in Afghanistan trying to go through counter-terrorism efforts and so on.
Matin Royeen:
As I am reflecting, unfortunately, our efforts in Afghanistan, although it made a difference in some areas of education, health, putting the pillars of democracy together, but also it created a set of other problems such as endemic corruption, trying to export the Western value systems into Afghanistan. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to pay attention to the culture, to the traditions of the society.
Matin Royeen:
We have to make sure that people are prepared mentally for all those changes, to embrace those changes, to understand the values of democracy and democratic values in the context of their own cultures. You cannot put the cart in front of the horse and your rope.
Matin Royeen:
So unfortunately, all of a sudden we were all shocked most recently on August 15 when after 20 years of engagement by 140,000 troops, 50 different countries, $2.1 trillion, almost 244,000 people dead from all sides, in 2001, the tragedy of 2001, the reason we went into Afghanistan was, well, to overthrow the Taliban and where they were housing the Al-Qaeda leadership.
Matin Royeen:
We went after the Al-Qaeda leadership and killed their leader, Osama bin Laden, and dismantled some other leadership. But unfortunately, after investing so much in treasure and human life in Afghanistan, and producing 250 to 300,000 Afghan National Security Forces and investing so much in the governance, in the leadership of Afghanistan, within days, everything kind of fell apart.
Matin Royeen:
The Afghan government collapsed, the Afghan National Security Forces disintegrated and while during our conversation, the United States previously had a peace agreement under Trump administration with the Taliban, and then President Biden inherited that agreement and he decided that by end of August of this year will withdraw all troops from Afghanistan.
Matin Royeen:
It was a series of factors that really contributed to this collapsed system which unfortunately really reflects not only our military failure, but also in terms of money and resources, we really have to kind of question our failures in Afghanistan, and hopefully there will be some lessons that could be learned for the future generations.
Joyce Pittman:
I'm glad you mentioned lessons learned because we have, Matin, scholars, we have a lot of youth who are coming along and as well as seasoned scholars who want to write about such issues politically, but they feel like they're politically charged.
Joyce Pittman:
I was wondering, as an experienced writer, a historian, educator, dealing with these kinds of sensitive issues, sensitive, I'd say, social issues, if you could tell your younger writing self something that would be helpful, or some advice that you could give to those who want to write about such issues, what should they be aware of? How do they begin to do this and yet protect themselves?
Matin Royeen:
Well, this is very interesting because the topic of Afghanistan, Dr. Pittman, is a very emotional topic for me, and especially with the events that unfolded on August 15. I'm writing another article in this process that it is like going through a period of grief and mourning that reminds me of Dr. Elisabeth Kübler-Ross' stages of grief (https://grief.com/the-five-stages-of-grief/).
Matin Royeen:
Not only that, but also, as I'm thinking about the people of Afghanistan and the fact that what their experiences have been in the past and specifically during the Taliban regime, from 1996 to 2001, when the Taliban were in power and their harsh treatment of women and not paying attention to the civil rights and human rights. Those are traumatic events that have left their mark and PTSD, posttraumatic stress disorder is real.
Matin Royeen:
This all of a sudden with the collapse of Afghan government and the disintegration of the Afghan National Security Forces, what has happened in Afghanistan, that all of a sudden that psychological security blanket, despite its problems that were there with the people of Afghanistan, and especially with the presence of the international community, the Americans being there, it's all gone now. The Taliban is in charge again.
Matin Royeen:
All of a sudden, this is a flashback to those traumas that some people experienced. It has been very, very difficult. Taliban also have inherited a very bad economy. In the past two months, they have made considerable progress in providing some security for people. I mean, this is really amazing. We have to be fair to all the parties when we are evaluating events.
Matin Royeen:
Also, they are the ones that are also trying to fight corruption and trying to serve the people of Afghanistan. But in terms of their collision with the Western world, there are some cultural values that have to deal with human rights, women rights, rights of young women for education. The Taliban have not responded very well to those demands and that seems to be a problem at this stage.
Matin Royeen:
All the Taliban leadership claim that they have changed. They have transformed from the previous time that they were in power, but it remains to be seen.
Joyce Pittman:
Just listening to you, I picked up three key, I think, principles that I think are really very important. That was the idea of fairness in reporting. I think that's been an issue in the media with some individuals feeling like the media is unfairly ... or there's not balance there when it comes to reporting what actually goes on.
Joyce Pittman:
The second ... If we're going to write about these issues, if we're going to teach about them, then I think that's very important, what you said, that we have to make sure that we are presenting it in an unbiased way and creating fairness to all parties. The other was cultural values. Considering what the cultural values are for the different groups that we're trying to engage in this peacemaking.
Joyce Pittman:
What are their values? What are our values, and which ones do we feel we have the right to impose on other countries or other people? I think we can go back to the UN Sustainable Development Goals as we look at what those 17 goals are and when we write, try to perhaps connect what we are doing to the worldwide mission, rather than our own small, maybe perhaps personal agendas.
Joyce Pittman:
Then the third issue that I think is very important, which is also one of the SDGs, was that of the sensitive gender issues that are involved here. Oh, the fourth one was the economic development issue as well. I think all of these are key issues for us to consider as educators and we appreciate you calling those to our attention. You made a statement in your article that I want to refer to and ask you if you want to talk a little bit more about it.
Joyce Pittman:
You've already talked about your unconditional love for Afghanistan, which I very well know, and can appreciate as well and know that this is indeed one of your passions. But you made this statement. You said, "I believe the biggest challenge for all of us is how to establish a balance between our mind and heart while offering realistic solutions that could bring stability, peace, and prosperity towards a dignified life for our sisters and brothers in Afghanistan."
Matin Royeen:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that-
Joyce Pittman:
Oh my God, when I read that, I said, "Oh, you could take that statement and you could put it into so many different contexts and it could apply to anyone that you're trying to establish ... I'm going to let you talk about that.
Matin Royeen:
Thank you. That's a very important point. Thank you for bringing that up. You know, in the light of recent developments in Afghanistan and if you really think about it and if we watch the media, depending whether it's Fox News or it's CNN or MSNBC, they are blaming President Biden for failure of his policy, and others blame President Trump for striking a deal with the Taliban without involving the government of Afghanistan on whom we invested billions and billions of dollars.
Matin Royeen:
There are lots of contradictions in our foreign policy, in our set of preferences. I think how to maintain a balance right now, with what happened in Afghanistan, unfortunately hurt the prestige of the United States.
Matin Royeen:
The fall of the Afghan government, the disintegration of Afghan National Security Forces, nobody in the United States, whether it was CIA, whether it's the military analyst, whether it's political scientists, and I had read many, many, many articles, nobody had predicted that the Afghan system will fall so quickly and that Taliban will take over Afghanistan so quickly.
Matin Royeen:
As a result of these unexpected events, it is very easy to have scape goats. One scape goat is, well, the Afghan leader. They were cowards. They left Afghanistan and so on. The other blame could be the Afghan National Security Forces and other blames could be, well, with American politicians and so on. I think we all need to assume a collective responsibility for this.
Matin Royeen:
Instead of what happens during emergency situations is that our brains ... Amygdala, is a part of our brain. It is the center of emotions. When we go over the fight or flight response and when we become very angry, our emotional part of the brain, the amygdala, takes over and our nationality goes away. One of the most important point is how to keep that balance between our emotions and our logic, thinking that, "Okay. Well, this has happened and how to make the best out of this situation in Afghanistan."
Matin Royeen:
Right now, there is an expression in Afghanistan that ... You know what the ladder is? When people climb on the ladder. That is that the United States has brought the stature of the Taliban up from the terrorist groups to that of a legitimate partner by signing peace treatments with them and ignoring the Afghan government on whom we have spent billions and billions of dollars in the past 20 years. We've been trying to build them.
Matin Royeen:
The Trump administration ignored them. At the same time, so have made peace with them. Now we have frozen the 10 billion Afghan assets, and also are criticizing the leadership of Taliban by not respecting their human rights, not bringing some changes. This is not new information.
Matin Royeen:
Now since, what we have done is we've brought them and “put them on the ladder “and so now we are trying to “remove the ladder from their feet”, kind of put them there, dangling, in a result, endangering the lives of the Afghan people, the suffering of Afghan people, especially right now.
Matin Royeen:
The economy is really bad and there is a humanitarian crisis looming in the country that needs to be addressed by the international community because of COVID-19 health problems, lack of cash, freezing of the assets, endemic corruption during the previous regimes. There is no money and 50% of the population are living in poverty right now. They're saying that if the problem is not addressed within the next two/three months, this poverty line will climb up to 97%.
Matin Royeen:
Already I learned that eight infants have died of hunger in Afghanistan. This was last night news. The tragedy has started to unfold in Afghanistan already. On top of that, we went into Afghanistan 20 years ago in response to the 9/11 attacks, response to terrorism.
Joyce Pittman:
Really, I was about to ask you, could you please draw a connection between 9/11 and what's going on here now for our audience? Because a lot of people don't understand that.
Matin Royeen:
We went into Afghanistan after 9/11 when the Al-Qaeda attacked the United States, and the leader of Al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, was in Afghanistan, was the host of the Taliban regime. We asked the Taliban to turn over Osama bin Laden because he's been responsible for the attacks. The Taliban refused to do that based on cultural reasons, but also they asked for evidence if that were the case for the United States to do that.
Matin Royeen:
Well, for domestic concerns, Bush Jr. administration, President Bush, had to respond to do something to show the world that we are somebody. Always the question would be, when we invaded Afghanistan, was that the right decision? After 20 years and spending $2.1 trillion and now we are renegotiating with the Taliban, they're back in power.
Matin Royeen:
We went into Afghanistan, making sure that the Al-Qaeda will be dismantled, that no terrorist groups will use the Afghan soil against the United States and the Western interest. Ironically, last night there was a report by the defense department, high level official saying that ISIS will be ready within six months in that region in Afghanistan to launch attacks on the United states. Al-Qaeda will be able to launch attacks on the United States after two years.
Matin Royeen:
We went for the same reason and withdrew thinking that, "Okay. We have taken care of those terror attacks." Unfortunately, there are some contradictions, and politics, unfortunately, politicians try to paint a different picture of reality of how things are. The fact is that we cannot afford to disengaged with the Taliban regime.
Matin Royeen:
I think a constructive engagement with the Taliban is very important at this stage in the context of our national interest and the national interest of the people of Afghanistan. Although, the United States, we have made a commitment that despite the fact that we are not recognizing the Taliban regime, but we will continue to be engaged in Afghanistan diplomatically and provide support on a humanitarian basis, which is nice.
Matin Royeen:
But I think that constructive engagement on political and diplomatic level, eventually it will take place. I think the sooner we do that in the context of our national interest, I think would be better off for the national interest of Afghanistan, because the people of Afghanistan are in a very, very difficult situation right now, that if we don't address, I'm afraid that catastrophic events will take place. Starvation, hunger, and waves of migration to the neighboring countries and the enormous suffering of the Afghan people.
Joyce Pittman:
I'm certainly ... Oh, wow, thank you so very much for making that connection clear to our audience and to me. I like the term that you used, the ladder. We give them the ladder and then suddenly we take the ladder away, so where does that leave them? Of course, we know what happens when you pull a ladder from under anyone.
Joyce Pittman:
In that process, depending upon ... And if they're on the ladder, depending on where they are on the ladder, it's going to determine how hard they fall. I thank you for that metaphor. In getting to our closing, I just want to recap some of the concepts or principles that you put forward in terms of what we're going to need to do in order to, I guess, reposition that ladder.
Joyce Pittman:
In doing so, we have to consider fairness, we have to consider cultural values, gender issues, collective responsibility was another one that came up and balanced response. You really gave us some rich ideas in that area, as well as respecting human rights as the last big takeaway. I think those are all jewels.
Joyce Pittman:
My last question is going to be based on your article, my reflections of 9/11 and beyond, what is the most important ideal, or understanding that you want the audience to take away from the podcast today, from our conversation today, as well as from the full article that hopefully they will read in the next few days or so after they listen to this podcast?
Matin Royeen:
Thank you again. That's a very good question, Dr. Pittman. If our audience are younger people, I would like to tell them the following, is that in conduct of foreign policy in international relations, leaders talk about human values, but in reality, we are practicing not human values, but political interests of the nations. Sometimes the political interest of nations run in contradiction to human values.
Matin Royeen:
We have to just keep that in mind. That is really, really important. For our other audience, I think that the Afghan people have experienced lots of suffering. In 1980s, when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, we responded. We helped the Afghans and we told Afghan people that we are going to ... Allah, God, is on your side. We made this a holy war for the Afghans, and after winning the Cold War, the United States left the scene.
Matin Royeen:
Just remember that during our engagement in support of the freedom fighters, we supported any kind of element that was against the Gsodless communists, whether these people were from Saudi Arabia, from other countries. Osama bin Laden was one of these individuals whom we basically indirectly supported because they were against the Godless communist.
Matin Royeen:
But after we won the Cold War, after the Soviets were forced to leave Afghanistan, we also left the scene. We said goodbye to the people of Afghanistan. Good luck to you, because our own mission in the context of our political interest was accomplished. The United States emerged as a sole super power.
Matin Royeen:
Leave aside the fact that those bad characters, questionable characters that helped our efforts were still there in Pakistan, in the surrounding areas, that later on turned against the United States through the 9/11 attacks. That's one lesson. The other lesson from this is, why did we invade Afghanistan and got rid of the Taliban after 20 years, loss of 244,000 human lives, $2.1 trillion, so much suffering, injuries on all sides, including PTSD here in the United States, then we are back to square one? Question mark.
Matin Royeen:
What is it that we could learn? I hope that our colleagues and educators could reflect on some of the things and hopefully could bring it to the attention of the leaders that history in the area of mistakes should not be repeated. I'm afraid that we have repeated those mistakes.
Joyce Pittman:
Thank you so very much for those wise words. I certainly hope that our listeners will find their way to our newsletter so that they can read the full article. The newsletter is Educating and Collaborating for a Safe and Peaceful World. Certainly, Dr. Matin Royeen has given us some jewels today to move forward. If you proceed to our newsletter, you will find a great deal more from him on this particular topic.
Joyce Pittman:
I'm not going to go through this entire newsletter, but certainly if you go to our website, you can download it. You'll find not only his article, but so many more that highlight the importance of peace in our world today and what we can do in order to contribute in a fair way, as a response within the limits of what is available to us as educators and policymakers.
Joyce Pittman:
I'd also like to invite you to stay tuned for more about our USA Chapter that is recently started here in the USA. You'll find information about that as well on the website, from the WCCI website, you can search WCCI Alliant University and you'll find us, or you can click the link that you'll find on this podcast page.
Joyce Pittman:
Again, thank you, Dr. Royeen, for your interview today, for taking your time to educate us on understanding, number one, how to reflect on these situations and then how to report them, how to write about them, how to talk about them intelligently and fairly so that we can come up with solutions at work. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Matin Royeen:
Thank you very much, Dr. Pittman, for providing me this great opportunity to share my thoughts and ideas with you and with our colleagues at WCCI and also greater community of people. Thank you.
Joyce Pittman:
Thank you. We're going to end our recording now. Hopefully we will see you in our count as we look at the number of readers and viewers that we have for this very, very exciting podcast.
Resources
Council on Foreign Relations – 100 Global Conflicts
Visit this informational Website where you will find a visual tracker of the USA and Afghanistan Conflict
https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/war-afghanistan
WCCI Website and Newsletters
Educating and Collaborating for a Safe and Peaceful World edited by Dr. Joyce Pittman
Website: https://wcci-international.org/
Data Note 1: The amount of money cited during the interview, which is 2.1 trillion invested in the Afghan War was mentioned by President Biden in several speeches.
Data Note 2: Brown University conducted research about Afghanistan. According to that information: 2,448 US dead. Also 13 lost their lives during the recent airport evacuation. About 1000 NATO dead. 24, 000 afghan and Pakistanis , including Taliban dead.
Data Note 3: There is a final report by Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR) about the lessons learned after 20 years. https://www.sigar.mil/
Disclaimer Notice: The views expressed in this interview and related article represent the interviewee’s personal perspective and not necessarily the WCCI organization. Furthermore, the views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any agency of the U.S. government. Examples of data within this article are only examples. They should not be utilized in real-world context without further investigation as they are based only on limited and dated open source information. Assumptions or data cited or referenced are not reflective of the position of any U.S. government entity.