{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":13.019,"endTime":15.059,"body":"Hello, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":13.019,"endTime":15.059,"body":"welcome to the shifting culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":15.059,"endTime":17.609,"body":"podcast in which we have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":15.059,"endTime":17.609,"body":"conversations about the culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":17.609,"endTime":21.299,"body":"we create, and the impact we can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":17.609,"endTime":21.299,"body":"make. I'm your host, Joshua"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":21.299,"endTime":25.409,"body":"Johnson. Go to shifting culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":21.299,"endTime":25.409,"body":"podcast.com To interact or"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":25.409,"endTime":29.309,"body":"donate. If you're enjoying the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":25.409,"endTime":29.309,"body":"show, it really helps us out if"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":29.309,"endTime":33.269,"body":"you left a rating, and review on"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":29.309,"endTime":33.269,"body":"Apple podcasts or share the show"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":33.269,"endTime":37.049,"body":"with your friends or network."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":33.269,"endTime":37.049,"body":"Previous guests on the show have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":37.049,"endTime":40.859,"body":"included Alan Hirsch, Rob"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":37.049,"endTime":40.859,"body":"Wagner, and Pam Arland. You can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":40.859,"endTime":44.699,"body":"go back and listen to those"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":40.859,"endTime":44.699,"body":"episodes, and more. But today's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":44.699,"endTime":48.509,"body":"guest is Michael frost. Michael"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":44.699,"endTime":48.509,"body":"is an internationally recognized"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":48.539,"endTime":51.779,"body":"Australian missiologist and one"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":48.539,"endTime":51.779,"body":"of the leading voices in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":51.779,"endTime":56.099,"body":"missional church movement. He is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":51.779,"endTime":56.099,"body":"the author or editor of 19"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":56.099,"endTime":59.429,"body":"books, the founder of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":56.099,"endTime":59.429,"body":"Tinsley Institute, the missional"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":59.429,"endTime":63.389,"body":"Christian community, small boat,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":59.429,"endTime":63.389,"body":"big sea, and one of the founders"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":63.419,"endTime":66.839,"body":"of Forge mission training"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":63.419,"endTime":66.839,"body":"network, we have a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":66.839,"endTime":70.919,"body":"conversation on what it means to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":66.839,"endTime":70.919,"body":"be missional and Christ centered"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":71.189,"endTime":74.969,"body":"at the same time. This is a good"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":71.189,"endTime":74.969,"body":"one, I know you're going to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":74.969,"endTime":79.559,"body":"enjoy it. I certainly did. This"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":74.969,"endTime":79.559,"body":"episode is brought to you by all"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":79.559,"endTime":83.369,"body":"nations, Kansas City. At all"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":79.559,"endTime":83.369,"body":"nations, we make disciples and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":83.369,"endTime":86.129,"body":"train leaders to ignite church"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":83.369,"endTime":86.129,"body":"planting movements among"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":86.129,"endTime":91.979,"body":"neglected people. And we want"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":86.129,"endTime":91.979,"body":"you to join us, are you tired of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":92.429,"endTime":96.509,"body":"compromising for the status quo?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":92.429,"endTime":96.509,"body":"If so, come join us on the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":96.509,"endTime":100.409,"body":"leading edge. All nations is not"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":96.509,"endTime":100.409,"body":"just a great missions, training"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":100.409,"endTime":103.859,"body":"and sending organization is an"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":100.409,"endTime":103.859,"body":"organization that I've been a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":103.859,"endTime":110.279,"body":"part of for many years. So join"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":103.859,"endTime":110.279,"body":"me at all nations Kansas City,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":110.699,"endTime":115.439,"body":"go to all nations.us for more"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":110.699,"endTime":115.439,"body":"information. This podcast is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":115.439,"endTime":119.759,"body":"done in association with the MX"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":115.439,"endTime":119.759,"body":"platform and 100 m publishing."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":120.629,"endTime":122.879,"body":"Do you want to be resourced and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":120.629,"endTime":122.879,"body":"equipped to release movement in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":122.879,"endTime":126.149,"body":"your context, connect with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":122.879,"endTime":126.149,"body":"movement leaders and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":126.149,"endTime":129.179,"body":"practitioners for coaching"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":126.149,"endTime":129.179,"body":"resources and training at the MX"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":129.179,"endTime":133.109,"body":"platform.com. And our guest"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":129.179,"endTime":133.109,"body":"today Michael Frost has a couple"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":133.109,"endTime":138.329,"body":"of books on 100. M publishing."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":133.109,"endTime":138.329,"body":"One is read Jesus that he co"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":138.329,"endTime":142.379,"body":"wrote with Alan Hirsch revised"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":138.329,"endTime":142.379,"body":"and updated edition, the yellow"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":142.379,"endTime":146.069,"body":"edition you gotta get that one."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":142.379,"endTime":146.069,"body":"It is amazing. And then he wrote"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":146.099,"endTime":152.039,"body":"a little afterward in Red Skies,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":146.099,"endTime":152.039,"body":"which is another amazing book"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":152.099,"endTime":156.779,"body":"that you should get. So check"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":152.099,"endTime":156.779,"body":"those out at 100. M. Publishing."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":157.739,"endTime":160.439,"body":"Mike, welcome to the podcasts."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":157.739,"endTime":160.439,"body":"I'm really excited to have you."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":160.469,"endTime":161.459,"body":"So thanks for coming."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":161.79,"endTime":163.14,"body":"Hey, Josh, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":161.79,"endTime":163.14,"body":"great to be here,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":163.23,"endTime":167.01,"body":"as you've been,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":163.23,"endTime":167.01,"body":"you know, very missional,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":167.01,"endTime":172.5,"body":"calling the church into missions"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":167.01,"endTime":172.5,"body":"activity to get people out on"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":172.5,"endTime":177.12,"body":"the edges. And as you've been"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":172.5,"endTime":177.12,"body":"around the edges of the kingdom"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":177.15,"endTime":182.46,"body":"and trying to pull the church in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":177.15,"endTime":182.46,"body":"that direction. How do you stay"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":182.85,"endTime":186.66,"body":"centered? On Jesus through it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":182.85,"endTime":186.66,"body":"all?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":188.58,"endTime":191.7,"body":"Oh, that's a very"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":188.58,"endTime":191.7,"body":"good question. And it's cuts are"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":191.7,"endTime":195.75,"body":"a multi layered question."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":191.7,"endTime":195.75,"body":"Because I guess in some"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":195.75,"endTime":200.43,"body":"respects, I would certainly I do"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":195.75,"endTime":200.43,"body":"want the church to kind of move"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":200.46,"endTime":204.81,"body":"out from within being a kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":200.46,"endTime":204.81,"body":"a insular and twisted kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":204.81,"endTime":210.87,"body":"community to engage in society,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":204.81,"endTime":210.87,"body":"culture and, and to move out to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":210.93,"endTime":216.03,"body":"be a missional presence, but not"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":210.93,"endTime":216.03,"body":"just so that it's more relevant"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":216.03,"endTime":221.07,"body":"or the kind of engages more"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":216.03,"endTime":221.07,"body":"people or grows more, what have"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":221.07,"endTime":224.67,"body":"you, it would be my primary"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":221.07,"endTime":224.67,"body":"motivation for it would be,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":225.0,"endTime":228.39,"body":"because that's how we mirror the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":225.0,"endTime":228.39,"body":"kind of heart and character of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":228.39,"endTime":233.37,"body":"God that God is a missional God"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":228.39,"endTime":233.37,"body":"that even an extent that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":233.37,"endTime":237.0,"body":"sentence ism, bear the ground"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":233.37,"endTime":237.0,"body":"gravity of what I'm wanting to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":237.0,"endTime":242.55,"body":"say. But yeah, I mean, at the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":237.0,"endTime":242.55,"body":"core of Christian theology, that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":242.55,"endTime":247.02,"body":"is thinking about God, is the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":242.55,"endTime":247.02,"body":"idea that God extends himself"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":247.02,"endTime":251.37,"body":"beyond himself, in the creation"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":247.02,"endTime":251.37,"body":"of the universe, in his"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":251.37,"endTime":255.69,"body":"relationship with humankind. You"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":251.37,"endTime":255.69,"body":"know, the expression that's used"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":255.75,"endTime":260.61,"body":"the Latin phrase, missio dei,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":255.75,"endTime":260.61,"body":"there's this mission of God, God"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":260.61,"endTime":263.58,"body":"is constantly I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":260.61,"endTime":263.58,"body":"another definition for the word,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":263.82,"endTime":268.68,"body":"love to extend oneself beyond"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":263.82,"endTime":268.68,"body":"yourself, for the benefit of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":268.68,"endTime":271.86,"body":"others. And that's God. That's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":268.68,"endTime":271.86,"body":"how God operates all the way"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":272.25,"endTime":276.42,"body":"through his engagement with the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":272.25,"endTime":276.42,"body":"first covenant people in the Old"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":276.42,"endTime":280.89,"body":"Testament. And then, of course,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":276.42,"endTime":280.89,"body":"we see that a Jesus that you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":280.89,"endTime":284.49,"body":"know, he's the sentence sending"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":280.89,"endTime":284.49,"body":"God that God sends I say,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":284.49,"endTime":288.09,"body":"sentence me because God sends"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":284.49,"endTime":288.09,"body":"His Son but his son is God's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":288.09,"endTime":293.97,"body":"who's sending himself an even"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":288.09,"endTime":293.97,"body":"our most complex doctrinal view,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":293.97,"endTime":299.19,"body":"the kind that the Trinity is,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":293.97,"endTime":299.19,"body":"like soaked in this whole idea"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":299.19,"endTime":302.1,"body":"of mission be because lots of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":299.19,"endTime":302.1,"body":"people kind of speculate about"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":302.4,"endTime":305.88,"body":"what the relationships between"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":302.4,"endTime":305.88,"body":"the three persons of the Trinity"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":305.91,"endTime":309.69,"body":"might be like, but one thing we"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":305.91,"endTime":309.69,"body":"can be certain from Scripture is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":309.69,"endTime":314.61,"body":"that they send each other God"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":309.69,"endTime":314.61,"body":"the Father says, other God, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":314.61,"endTime":319.17,"body":"Son sin, God, the Holy Spirit, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":314.61,"endTime":319.17,"body":"mean, at the very core of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":319.17,"endTime":322.17,"body":"interpersonal relationships"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":319.17,"endTime":322.17,"body":"between the three persons of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":322.17,"endTime":327.0,"body":"Trinity is centeredness, if you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":322.17,"endTime":327.0,"body":"so. So this idea of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":327.0,"endTime":330.03,"body":"contract, we should be the st"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":327.0,"endTime":330.03,"body":"ones, we should be extending"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":330.03,"endTime":333.96,"body":"yourself beyond this as outward"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":330.03,"endTime":333.96,"body":"into society into culture into"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":333.96,"endTime":336.69,"body":"the lives of a herding of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":333.96,"endTime":336.69,"body":"poor, the needy or the loss."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":337.08,"endTime":340.23,"body":"It's not just because it's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":337.08,"endTime":340.23,"body":"good strategy, or because they"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":340.23,"endTime":343.47,"body":"need it, both of those things"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":340.23,"endTime":343.47,"body":"might be true. But I would say"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":343.47,"endTime":346.62,"body":"because this is what God looks"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":343.47,"endTime":346.62,"body":"like. And if we're wanting to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":346.62,"endTime":350.94,"body":"mirror a God in this world, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":346.62,"endTime":350.94,"body":"want to be Mises, one of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":350.94,"endTime":354.75,"body":"things you could say that Jesus"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":350.94,"endTime":354.75,"body":"without question is, he's a sent"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":354.75,"endTime":359.49,"body":"one thing, he says it like 20"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":354.75,"endTime":359.49,"body":"times I think in in John's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":359.49,"endTime":363.18,"body":"gospel, but you know, the Sandy"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":359.49,"endTime":363.18,"body":"River, I've been sent to do"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":363.18,"endTime":367.2,"body":"this, this fulfillment of his"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":363.18,"endTime":367.2,"body":"idea of what he was sent to do."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":367.56,"endTime":370.56,"body":"So if we want to be like Christ,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":367.56,"endTime":370.56,"body":"and being sent to people is I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":370.56,"endTime":373.56,"body":"think at the very core of that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":370.56,"endTime":373.56,"body":"there are other things you can"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":373.56,"endTime":380.73,"body":"say. But yeah, at the outset,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":373.56,"endTime":380.73,"body":"you know, it's about mirroring"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":380.76,"endTime":385.8,"body":"that character of God. And it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":380.76,"endTime":385.8,"body":"about emulating the life and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":385.8,"endTime":388.26,"body":"work of Jesus. So to your"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":385.8,"endTime":388.26,"body":"question, how do you stay"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":388.26,"endTime":393.0,"body":"centered on Jesus? It's like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":388.26,"endTime":393.0,"body":"you know, how else would we know"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":393.0,"endTime":395.82,"body":"what it looks like for us to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":393.0,"endTime":395.82,"body":"engaged in mission if we don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":395.82,"endTime":400.32,"body":"continue to get back to Jesus as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":395.82,"endTime":400.32,"body":"our kind of touchdown? And if"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":400.32,"endTime":405.21,"body":"you don't, Joshua, I think you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":400.32,"endTime":405.21,"body":"end up you know, thinking, Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":405.57,"endTime":408.33,"body":"if you think the mission of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":405.57,"endTime":408.33,"body":"church is to grow the church,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":408.36,"endTime":412.38,"body":"and to get out there and engage"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":408.36,"endTime":412.38,"body":"in strategies to connect to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":412.38,"endTime":415.44,"body":"people, and you don't have"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":412.38,"endTime":415.44,"body":"Jesus, as I said, that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":415.44,"endTime":420.48,"body":"touchstone that that frame, that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":415.44,"endTime":420.48,"body":"that shapes the way you do that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":420.48,"endTime":423.36,"body":"well, then you end up justifying"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":420.48,"endTime":423.36,"body":"all sorts of things. And we've"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":423.36,"endTime":426.6,"body":"seen that though, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":423.36,"endTime":426.6,"body":"our marketing of manipulation,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":426.6,"endTime":431.91,"body":"and control, and, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":426.6,"endTime":431.91,"body":"colonization and all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":431.91,"endTime":435.72,"body":"things. We ended up doing it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":431.91,"endTime":435.72,"body":"because we think the end is to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":435.72,"endTime":439.29,"body":"be out there and reaching"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":435.72,"endTime":439.29,"body":"people. But actually, the end is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":439.29,"endTime":443.13,"body":"to to mirror the work of God in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":439.29,"endTime":443.13,"body":"the world and to alert him to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":443.13,"endTime":448.89,"body":"his way. And secondarily,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":443.13,"endTime":448.89,"body":"ideally. So people feel people"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":449.1,"endTime":453.87,"body":"invite people into faith. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":449.1,"endTime":453.87,"body":"yeah, you end up you can end up"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":453.87,"endTime":457.74,"body":"in some very tricky space. If"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":453.87,"endTime":457.74,"body":"you don't continue to come back"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":457.74,"endTime":458.55,"body":"to Jesus."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":458.58,"endTime":462.6,"body":"Yeah. So how do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":458.58,"endTime":462.6,"body":"you think that we as as people,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":463.35,"endTime":468.57,"body":"can be the ones that have our"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":463.35,"endTime":468.57,"body":"desire, and our attachment to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":468.57,"endTime":474.9,"body":"God, more than our strategies"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":468.57,"endTime":474.9,"body":"and all the other stuff to build"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":474.9,"endTime":479.19,"body":"the the the number, so we look"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":474.9,"endTime":479.19,"body":"good? How can we stay grounded"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":479.19,"endTime":483.87,"body":"and rooted in that so that we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":479.19,"endTime":483.87,"body":"keep him at the center as we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":483.87,"endTime":484.71,"body":"move forward?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":543.089,"endTime":545.789,"body":"Well, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":543.089,"endTime":545.789,"body":"think we need to maintain our"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":545.879,"endTime":549.2090000000001,"body":"evangelical kind of fervor, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":545.879,"endTime":549.2090000000001,"body":"know that that words a bit"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":549.2090000000001,"endTime":553.679,"body":"contested, but that kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":549.2090000000001,"endTime":553.679,"body":"gospel drive, which is sort of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":553.799,"endTime":557.549,"body":"characteristic of a certain"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":553.799,"endTime":557.549,"body":"section of Protestant community."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":557.549,"endTime":562.109,"body":"But I also think we need to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":557.549,"endTime":562.109,"body":"maintain some traditions that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":562.139,"endTime":564.9590000000001,"body":"Catholic and Orthodox and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":562.139,"endTime":564.9590000000001,"body":"mainline Protestants are"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":564.9590000000001,"endTime":568.709,"body":"committed to as well, which is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":564.9590000000001,"endTime":568.709,"body":"about, you know, strong"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":568.709,"endTime":572.999,"body":"commitment to the tradition to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":568.709,"endTime":572.999,"body":"reading scripture to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":572.999,"endTime":577.049,"body":"lectionary to to grounding"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":572.999,"endTime":577.049,"body":"ourselves in the world. It's so"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":577.049,"endTime":580.289,"body":"interesting that the people that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":577.049,"endTime":580.289,"body":"often about how we're the gospel"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":580.289,"endTime":583.499,"body":"people were the word people are"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":580.289,"endTime":583.499,"body":"often the ones that seem to know"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":583.499,"endTime":587.7289999999999,"body":"it the least. And so I'm not"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":583.499,"endTime":587.7289999999999,"body":"suggesting let's all you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":587.759,"endTime":593.519,"body":"be Catholic, or let's all switch"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":587.759,"endTime":593.519,"body":"over to to kind of more mainline"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":593.519,"endTime":597.989,"body":"or liberal denominations or, or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":593.519,"endTime":597.989,"body":"church movements, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":598.619,"endTime":602.369,"body":"maintaining our angelical in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":598.619,"endTime":602.369,"body":"best sense of the word kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":602.429,"endTime":605.639,"body":"energy and fervor and commitment"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":602.429,"endTime":605.639,"body":"to mission. It is actually about"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":605.639,"endTime":609.209,"body":"being people of the word and in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":605.639,"endTime":609.209,"body":"particular people the gospel so"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":609.209,"endTime":614.309,"body":"I know that that just sounds so"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":609.209,"endTime":614.309,"body":"trite, but it's never ceases to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":614.309,"endTime":617.489,"body":"amaze me how many people I can"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":614.309,"endTime":617.489,"body":"encounter who are very committed"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":617.489,"endTime":621.989,"body":"Christian people and maybe even"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":617.489,"endTime":621.989,"body":"in ministry or mission who can't"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":622.199,"endTime":626.189,"body":"know a whole lot about the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":622.199,"endTime":626.189,"body":"Gospels. I mean, they don't do"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":626.279,"endTime":629.999,"body":"either their sins and I know"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":626.279,"endTime":629.999,"body":"some stories of parables. I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":629.999,"endTime":632.909,"body":"not suggesting that I know"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":629.999,"endTime":632.909,"body":"anything, but in a sense, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":632.909,"endTime":636.029,"body":"kind of like I got it. Jesus"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":632.909,"endTime":636.029,"body":"died for my sins. Right Good"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":636.029,"endTime":640.409,"body":"God. Now move on. But now"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":636.029,"endTime":640.409,"body":"actually, there's much more that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":640.409,"endTime":643.499,"body":"you don't know if you don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":640.409,"endTime":643.499,"body":"really immerse yourself in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":643.649,"endTime":649.619,"body":"in the texts. Yeah. I was gonna"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":643.649,"endTime":649.619,"body":"say I teach a unit at the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":649.619,"endTime":652.709,"body":"college where I teach on it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":649.619,"endTime":652.709,"body":"called Jesus and the Gospels."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":652.709,"endTime":656.249,"body":"It's really an introduction to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":652.709,"endTime":656.249,"body":"the mainly the Synoptic Gospels,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":656.249,"endTime":660.449,"body":"but we To touch a bit on John,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":656.249,"endTime":660.449,"body":"and these are committed"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":660.749,"endTime":665.609,"body":"Christian people who are in over"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":660.749,"endTime":665.609,"body":"a bachelor of theology program,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":665.609,"endTime":669.569,"body":"and they're intending many of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":665.609,"endTime":669.569,"body":"them to head toward a kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":669.569,"endTime":674.039,"body":"clergy track. Other kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":669.569,"endTime":674.039,"body":"local ministry or overseas"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":674.039,"endTime":677.489,"body":"mission, and no offense to them,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":674.039,"endTime":677.489,"body":"God love them. I mean, they kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":677.489,"endTime":681.809,"body":"of wide eyed and full of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":677.489,"endTime":681.809,"body":"curiosity and more learn. But I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":681.809,"endTime":684.899,"body":"ended up teaching them stuff, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":681.809,"endTime":684.899,"body":"think, do you not know that this"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":684.899,"endTime":689.399,"body":"like, what what was going on in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":684.899,"endTime":689.399,"body":"church? I mean, in a sense, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":689.399,"endTime":694.709,"body":"feel like, Joshua, because lots"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":689.399,"endTime":694.709,"body":"of lots of our leaders were"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":694.709,"endTime":699.059,"body":"raised in Christian families."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":694.709,"endTime":699.059,"body":"They were raised in the church,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":699.209,"endTime":703.889,"body":"they're not new converts to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":699.209,"endTime":703.889,"body":"Christianity, because many of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":703.889,"endTime":708.209,"body":"them were, they've kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":703.889,"endTime":708.209,"body":"adopted the gospel by osmosis,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":708.209,"endTime":712.679,"body":"you know, their family, culture,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":708.209,"endTime":712.679,"body":"their church culture, there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":712.679,"endTime":717.209,"body":"just things you know, without"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":712.679,"endTime":717.209,"body":"really knowing them. And the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":717.209,"endTime":722.279,"body":"thing that gets you the thing"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":717.209,"endTime":722.279,"body":"that really impacts you, is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":722.279,"endTime":728.069,"body":"usually the message about"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":722.279,"endTime":728.069,"body":"Christ's atoning sacrifice and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":728.069,"endTime":732.4789999999999,"body":"your scene and your brokenness."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":728.069,"endTime":732.4789999999999,"body":"And often the conversion moment"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":732.689,"endTime":736.379,"body":"happens for them where it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":732.689,"endTime":736.379,"body":"like, Yes, I'm a sinner, Christ"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":736.379,"endTime":740.639,"body":"died for me. And you pixelate"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":736.379,"endTime":740.639,"body":"into his arms of grace, and you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":740.639,"endTime":744.359,"body":"say, that's when I became a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":740.639,"endTime":744.359,"body":"Christian. And that's the thing"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":744.359,"endTime":748.2289999999999,"body":"that's like, super important to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":744.359,"endTime":748.2289999999999,"body":"you, and I get that. But all the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":748.2289999999999,"endTime":753.569,"body":"other stuff is just as important"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":748.2289999999999,"endTime":753.569,"body":"about God about the character of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":753.569,"endTime":757.4689999999999,"body":"Jesus about his whole upside"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":753.569,"endTime":757.4689999999999,"body":"down kingdom, all that kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":757.4689999999999,"endTime":762.269,"body":"stuff. But that's kind of way"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":757.4689999999999,"endTime":762.269,"body":"back in the back of your mind,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":762.269,"endTime":765.359,"body":"as it were. What's at the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":762.269,"endTime":765.359,"body":"forefront is Jesus died for my"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":765.359,"endTime":768.5989999999999,"body":"sins. I gotta go tell other"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":765.359,"endTime":768.5989999999999,"body":"people about that as well. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":768.629,"endTime":771.989,"body":"And I guess what I'm suggesting"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":768.629,"endTime":771.989,"body":"is just become more self"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":771.989,"endTime":776.249,"body":"conscious about what you've"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":771.989,"endTime":776.249,"body":"assumed about the Gospels, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":776.249,"endTime":779.609,"body":"not actually truly investigated."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":776.249,"endTime":779.609,"body":"And, and brought to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":779.609,"endTime":784.2289999999999,"body":"forefront to know. And the thing"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":779.609,"endTime":784.2289999999999,"body":"about those classes, is, when we"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":784.2289999999999,"endTime":786.809,"body":"teach them that sort of stuff,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":784.2289999999999,"endTime":786.809,"body":"you just see them come along of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":786.809,"endTime":790.949,"body":"like, Oh, is that why he said"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":786.809,"endTime":790.949,"body":"that at all? And so that's that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":790.949,"endTime":795.179,"body":"Baker, that makes sense of why"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":790.949,"endTime":795.179,"body":"later, he does. Say the pieces"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":795.179,"endTime":795.7189999999999,"body":"together?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":795.75,"endTime":798.81,"body":"Yeah, there's so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":795.75,"endTime":798.81,"body":"many things that, you know, even"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":799.1999999999999,"endTime":802.14,"body":"for us leaving a missions"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":799.1999999999999,"endTime":802.14,"body":"agencies were training"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":802.14,"endTime":805.62,"body":"missionaries to go out, and, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":802.14,"endTime":805.62,"body":"know, do a lot of work, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":805.62,"endTime":810.03,"body":"know, we're, we're talking"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":805.62,"endTime":810.03,"body":"about, Hey, how can we go in and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":810.03,"endTime":813.87,"body":"look at what, what first"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":810.03,"endTime":813.87,"body":"century, you know, Palestinian"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":813.87,"endTime":817.47,"body":"area look like? And who was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":813.87,"endTime":817.47,"body":"actually talking to you? What"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":817.47,"endTime":820.71,"body":"was the cultural setting there?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":817.47,"endTime":820.71,"body":"And, you know, we read things so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":820.71,"endTime":824.85,"body":"much through a Western"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":820.71,"endTime":824.85,"body":"perspective, that we miss a lot"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":824.85,"endTime":828.09,"body":"of what Jesus was actually"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":824.85,"endTime":828.09,"body":"saying, in those stories, that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":828.09,"endTime":831.72,"body":"he's sharing the parables, the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":828.09,"endTime":831.72,"body":"stories of him going into the,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":831.75,"endTime":835.11,"body":"you know, the Pharisee house,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":831.75,"endTime":835.11,"body":"and what does that look like? So"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":835.14,"endTime":841.53,"body":"what's the importance of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":835.14,"endTime":841.53,"body":"actually knowing the context of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":841.56,"endTime":847.77,"body":"what Jesus was and and then is,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":841.56,"endTime":847.77,"body":"and how can we apply that to our"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":847.77,"endTime":848.37,"body":"lives?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":849.03,"endTime":850.9499999999999,"body":"Yeah, no,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":849.03,"endTime":850.9499999999999,"body":"absolutely. I totally agree with"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":850.9499999999999,"endTime":853.41,"body":"you. Yeah. I mean, the thing"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":850.9499999999999,"endTime":853.41,"body":"about that, is that then lots of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":853.41,"endTime":857.55,"body":"preachers, I mean, you look at"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":853.41,"endTime":857.55,"body":"the stories, parables or stories"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":857.55,"endTime":860.64,"body":"of Jesus miraculous powers, or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":857.55,"endTime":860.64,"body":"his interactions with his"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":860.6999999999999,"endTime":864.81,"body":"disciples, Oh, of course, is his"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":860.6999999999999,"endTime":864.81,"body":"death and resurrection, His"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":864.81,"endTime":868.92,"body":"birth narrative, you, you look"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":864.81,"endTime":868.92,"body":"at them in these through these"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":868.92,"endTime":872.13,"body":"Western eyes. And then those"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":868.92,"endTime":872.13,"body":"people become ministers or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":872.13,"endTime":875.43,"body":"missionaries. And then they they"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":872.13,"endTime":875.43,"body":"preach them through Western"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":875.43,"endTime":878.67,"body":"eyes. And so then people adopt a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":875.43,"endTime":878.67,"body":"kind of a photocopy of a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":878.67,"endTime":884.1,"body":"photocopy of a Western eyed view"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":878.67,"endTime":884.1,"body":"of this. And so in the end, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":884.1,"endTime":888.09,"body":"just gets boring. I mean, I'll"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":884.1,"endTime":888.09,"body":"guarantee you the story of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":888.27,"endTime":890.8199999999999,"body":"Christmas or the story of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":888.27,"endTime":890.8199999999999,"body":"Easter, no one's going to admit"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":890.8199999999999,"endTime":896.13,"body":"it like, yeah, no guest ceremony"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":890.8199999999999,"endTime":896.13,"body":"and the arrest of humiliation he"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":896.13,"endTime":901.47,"body":"died on the cross, right? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":896.13,"endTime":901.47,"body":"a million times. And partly"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":901.47,"endTime":905.52,"body":"because I don't think it is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":901.47,"endTime":905.52,"body":"often presented, not just Easter"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":905.52,"endTime":908.67,"body":"or Christmas toys, but all of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":905.52,"endTime":908.67,"body":"it, as you say, with the kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":908.67,"endTime":913.05,"body":"cultural richness, that texture,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":908.67,"endTime":913.05,"body":"that he would have said this,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":913.05,"endTime":916.11,"body":"for these reasons that his first"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":913.05,"endTime":916.11,"body":"here is would have heard it that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":916.11,"endTime":920.73,"body":"way. I mean, not only not only"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":916.11,"endTime":920.73,"body":"Jesus, of course, even the rest"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":920.73,"endTime":923.43,"body":"of the New Testament, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":920.73,"endTime":923.43,"body":"Paul's and Peter's epistles and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":923.43,"endTime":926.97,"body":"the like, you know, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":923.43,"endTime":926.97,"body":"this is what his churches would"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":926.97,"endTime":930.15,"body":"have heard when he said that or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":926.97,"endTime":930.15,"body":"this is why he alludes to this"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":930.15,"endTime":933.42,"body":"or that. Some preachers do that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":930.15,"endTime":933.42,"body":"a little bit more on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":933.4499999999999,"endTime":936.54,"body":"epistles, it seems like there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":933.4499999999999,"endTime":936.54,"body":"more interest in those but I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":936.54,"endTime":940.41,"body":"feel like there needs to be just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":936.54,"endTime":940.41,"body":"as much if not more interest on"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":940.74,"endTime":944.55,"body":"the whole person and work of, of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":940.74,"endTime":944.55,"body":"Jesus. I mean, one of the guys"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":944.55,"endTime":948.6,"body":"who really helped me with this"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":944.55,"endTime":948.6,"body":"was Kenneth by me, you know, who"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":949.8,"endTime":955.11,"body":"was a missionary in various"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":949.8,"endTime":955.11,"body":"places in the Middle East for 40"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":955.11,"endTime":960.4499999999999,"body":"years or something like that."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":955.11,"endTime":960.4499999999999,"body":"just an incredibly gracious kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":960.4499999999999,"endTime":963.3299999999999,"body":"goblin. And I had a great"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":960.4499999999999,"endTime":963.3299999999999,"body":"privilege of meeting with him"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":963.3299999999999,"endTime":966.75,"body":"speaking at a conference with"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":963.3299999999999,"endTime":966.75,"body":"him toward the end of his life"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":966.75,"endTime":969.96,"body":"and just the most humble"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":966.75,"endTime":969.96,"body":"gracious guy who had done the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":969.96,"endTime":973.26,"body":"most remarkable things and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":969.96,"endTime":973.26,"body":"didn't big note himself about it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":973.68,"endTime":977.6999999999999,"body":"at all, but, you know, he his"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":973.68,"endTime":977.6999999999999,"body":"work, in particular Jesus"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":977.6999999999999,"endTime":980.55,"body":"through Middle Eastern eyes as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":977.6999999999999,"endTime":980.55,"body":"fat. But"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":982.4399999999999,"endTime":984.9,"body":"we have our"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":982.4399999999999,"endTime":984.9,"body":"missionaries read through that,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":985.14,"endTime":987.96,"body":"you know, we have them every"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":985.14,"endTime":987.96,"body":"every week for a year, learn a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":987.96,"endTime":991.1999999999999,"body":"new Jesus story and then read"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":987.96,"endTime":991.1999999999999,"body":"Jesus through Middle Eastern"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":991.1999999999999,"endTime":995.1,"body":"eyes of that that story, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":991.1999999999999,"endTime":995.1,"body":"that's really helpful. It's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":995.1899999999999,"endTime":997.4399999999999,"body":"wonderful, highly recommended."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":998.49,"endTime":1000.26,"body":"Yeah, he told me"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":998.49,"endTime":1000.26,"body":"a great story. Can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1000.26,"endTime":1001.91,"body":"I tell you this?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1000.26,"endTime":1001.91,"body":"Love it?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1002.509,"endTime":1006.079,"body":"He was in Beirut,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1002.509,"endTime":1006.079,"body":"when driven when all the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1006.079,"endTime":1009.4689999999999,"body":"Americans are getting kidnapped,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1006.079,"endTime":1009.4689999999999,"body":"you know, during the civil war"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1009.4689999999999,"endTime":1014.149,"body":"there and, and the British envoy"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1009.4689999999999,"endTime":1014.149,"body":"Terry White was kidnapped. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1014.149,"endTime":1020.059,"body":"mean, it was like pretty, it was"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1014.149,"endTime":1020.059,"body":"pretty on Westerners or Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1020.359,"endTime":1025.099,"body":"Americans and British people in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1020.359,"endTime":1025.099,"body":"Lebanon at that time, and the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1025.099,"endTime":1027.979,"body":"Bailey's were there as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1025.099,"endTime":1027.979,"body":"missionaries, and he said, after"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1028.009,"endTime":1033.829,"body":"a particular there was when Ben"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1028.009,"endTime":1033.829,"body":"Weir was was kidnapped. The"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1033.829,"endTime":1037.999,"body":"Marines kind of came into Beirut"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1033.829,"endTime":1037.999,"body":"and just sort of said, were"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1037.999,"endTime":1041.989,"body":"airlifting every American out of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1037.999,"endTime":1041.989,"body":"out of Beirut, like grab the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1041.989,"endTime":1045.499,"body":"stuff and get in this truck or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1041.989,"endTime":1045.499,"body":"helicopter or whatever. It was,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1045.499,"endTime":1049.459,"body":"like military operations, just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1045.499,"endTime":1049.459,"body":"sucked all the Americans out."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1050.179,"endTime":1054.019,"body":"And but the Bailey said, Thank"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1050.179,"endTime":1054.019,"body":"you, but no, thank you, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1054.019,"endTime":1058.159,"body":"caught. So we'll stay. And he"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1054.019,"endTime":1058.159,"body":"tells the story about how the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1058.159,"endTime":1062.449,"body":"next day he went, his wife"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1058.159,"endTime":1062.449,"body":"walked down to the store to buy"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1062.449,"endTime":1065.179,"body":"bread and coffee, which he did"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1062.449,"endTime":1065.179,"body":"every day. So there's nothing"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1065.179,"endTime":1069.799,"body":"unusual thing to do, walk down"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1065.179,"endTime":1069.799,"body":"the street and join the queue to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1070.549,"endTime":1075.049,"body":"a line to buy bread. And he"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1070.549,"endTime":1075.049,"body":"said, as we were walking, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1075.049,"endTime":1078.049,"body":"noticed that all these blinds"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1075.049,"endTime":1078.049,"body":"and curtains were fluttering as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1078.049,"endTime":1082.069,"body":"people were like looking out"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1078.049,"endTime":1082.069,"body":"their windows at us. And he"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1082.069,"endTime":1085.309,"body":"said, as we stood in a line,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1082.069,"endTime":1085.309,"body":"people were coming up to shake"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1085.309,"endTime":1090.589,"body":"our hand or to hug us or to pet"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1085.309,"endTime":1090.589,"body":"our shoulder. And we didn't say"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1090.589,"endTime":1094.189,"body":"anything, we didn't do anything."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1090.589,"endTime":1094.189,"body":"It's just and he says, he said,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1094.189,"endTime":1099.829,"body":"That's what I learned. He said"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1094.189,"endTime":1099.829,"body":"that presence can have as much"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1099.829,"endTime":1105.049,"body":"power as anything that we saw."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1099.829,"endTime":1105.049,"body":"And just this beautiful image of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1105.049,"endTime":1107.839,"body":"this silent couple not"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1105.049,"endTime":1107.839,"body":"preaching, not handing out"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1107.839,"endTime":1112.339,"body":"tracts, but just saying we"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1107.839,"endTime":1112.339,"body":"didn't leave wearing solidaire"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1112.399,"endTime":1119.6589999999999,"body":"you that were neighbors It was a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1112.399,"endTime":1119.6589999999999,"body":"beautiful story of, of risky"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1119.689,"endTime":1120.9189999999999,"body":"missional presents."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1120.949,"endTime":1124.399,"body":"Yeah, that's so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1120.949,"endTime":1124.399,"body":"good. I love that story. And I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1124.399,"endTime":1127.579,"body":"love that, you know, just being"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1124.399,"endTime":1127.579,"body":"present with people, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1127.579,"endTime":1131.269,"body":"as we were thinking through some"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1127.579,"endTime":1131.269,"body":"some context, you know, my wife"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1131.269,"endTime":1135.049,"body":"and I lived in the Middle East"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1131.269,"endTime":1135.049,"body":"for for some years and worked"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1135.049,"endTime":1138.199,"body":"primarily with Syrian refugees."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1135.049,"endTime":1138.199,"body":"And you know, one of the first"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1139.249,"endTime":1143.4189999999999,"body":"believers that we found a Muslim"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1139.249,"endTime":1143.4189999999999,"body":"background believer, she came to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1143.809,"endTime":1148.069,"body":"Jesus, one of the pivotal points"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1143.809,"endTime":1148.069,"body":"was the Christmas story. But"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1148.069,"endTime":1151.1589999999999,"body":"when the angel came to the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1148.069,"endTime":1151.1589999999999,"body":"shepherd and said, I bring you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1151.1589999999999,"endTime":1154.969,"body":"good news, I'm glad tidings for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1151.1589999999999,"endTime":1154.969,"body":"all people. She stopped us in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1154.969,"endTime":1157.399,"body":"the middle of that. And she"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1154.969,"endTime":1157.399,"body":"said, Is Jesus really for all"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1157.399,"endTime":1161.719,"body":"people? And we said, Yes, Jesus"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1157.399,"endTime":1161.719,"body":"is for all people. And she said,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1161.719,"endTime":1164.959,"body":"I thought he was just for you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1161.719,"endTime":1164.959,"body":"Christians. I didn't know he was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1164.959,"endTime":1170.809,"body":"for us Muslims, too. And so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1164.959,"endTime":1170.809,"body":"because he was for all people,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1171.079,"endTime":1175.759,"body":"and I think, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1171.079,"endTime":1175.759,"body":"story, you know, they're angels"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1175.759,"endTime":1179.989,"body":"going to the shepherds, I think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1175.759,"endTime":1179.989,"body":"spoke to her as well, right,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1179.989,"endTime":1185.149,"body":"because she as a refugee coming"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1179.989,"endTime":1185.149,"body":"across the border, and living"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1185.149,"endTime":1189.109,"body":"and going while look at this,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1185.149,"endTime":1189.109,"body":"and look at the the announcement"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1189.109,"endTime":1193.489,"body":"coming into the the shepherd"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1189.109,"endTime":1193.489,"body":"which was, you know, she was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1193.489,"endTime":1199.099,"body":"very rural type, shepherding"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1193.489,"endTime":1199.099,"body":"people that she came from. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1199.099,"endTime":1202.609,"body":"she said, oh, Jesus is actually"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1199.099,"endTime":1202.609,"body":"for me, too. And it's just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1202.609,"endTime":1204.229,"body":"beautiful. To see that."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1204.86,"endTime":1207.23,"body":"Yeah, you think"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1204.86,"endTime":1207.23,"body":"about the way we often tell in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1207.23,"endTime":1212.33,"body":"the West that story and it's it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1207.23,"endTime":1212.33,"body":"sort of feels almost kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1212.33,"endTime":1217.01,"body":"Pixar or Disney like you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1212.33,"endTime":1217.01,"body":"it's like it's an it's an A an A"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1217.01,"endTime":1224.3,"body":"frame to gabled what he called"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1217.01,"endTime":1224.3,"body":"stable and there's a there's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1224.3,"endTime":1227.87,"body":"star perched right on top and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1224.3,"endTime":1227.87,"body":"everyone's positioned according"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1227.87,"endTime":1232.8799999999999,"body":"to height, and you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1227.87,"endTime":1232.8799999999999,"body":"a kind of a glossing over of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1232.8799999999999,"endTime":1236.72,"body":"dirtiness and the richness of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1232.8799999999999,"endTime":1236.72,"body":"it. 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I mean, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1270.59,"endTime":1274.31,"body":"wouldn't just be like, upper"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1270.59,"endTime":1274.31,"body":"back. You know, when people"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1274.34,"endTime":1280.01,"body":"retell it like, it feels real."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1274.34,"endTime":1280.01,"body":"And it feels, yeah, it. 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And if all our"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1292.43,"endTime":1295.01,"body":"rooms were full, we would say,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1292.43,"endTime":1295.01,"body":"Well, why don't you try the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1295.01,"endTime":1299.69,"body":"garage? You know, but, but, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1295.01,"endTime":1299.69,"body":"could you imagine if you've if"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1299.69,"endTime":1303.5,"body":"you've lived and worked there,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1299.69,"endTime":1303.5,"body":"like could you imagine that ever"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1303.5,"endTime":1307.16,"body":"happening in a Middle Eastern"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1303.5,"endTime":1307.16,"body":"context to never extended, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1307.16,"endTime":1311.48,"body":"know, just relative and his, his"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1307.16,"endTime":1311.48,"body":"betrothed? She's going into"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1311.48,"endTime":1315.1399999999999,"body":"labor, like, I mean, but when"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1311.48,"endTime":1315.1399999999999,"body":"you hear in those sent in those"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1376.12,"endTime":1380.26,"body":"terms, is such richness and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1376.12,"endTime":1380.26,"body":"beauty and this and then the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1380.26,"endTime":1383.89,"body":"whole notion of like, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1380.26,"endTime":1383.89,"body":"persecution of infants and the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1384.16,"endTime":1387.76,"body":"need to escape and be refugees"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1384.16,"endTime":1387.76,"body":"themselves, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1387.76,"endTime":1391.0,"body":"there's there's, it's, it's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1387.76,"endTime":1391.0,"body":"knife edge story. It's a kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1391.0,"endTime":1397.42,"body":"a brutal story. It's a story of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1391.0,"endTime":1397.42,"body":"a very vulnerable, tiny little"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1397.42,"endTime":1402.19,"body":"family, with geopolitics"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1397.42,"endTime":1402.19,"body":"swirling around, and then you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1402.19,"endTime":1407.14,"body":"bring in the cosmic notions of,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1402.19,"endTime":1407.14,"body":"you know, angels and stars and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1407.17,"endTime":1411.94,"body":"weird guys from the east coming"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1407.17,"endTime":1411.94,"body":"over. And it's, yeah, there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1411.94,"endTime":1416.92,"body":"something very, but the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1411.94,"endTime":1416.92,"body":"Christmas card version of it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1416.92,"endTime":1418.51,"body":"doesn't do the tree. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1418.54,"endTime":1422.71,"body":"that's true. You"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1418.54,"endTime":1422.71,"body":"know, you just re released read"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1422.71,"endTime":1427.15,"body":"Jesus, or you revised and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1422.71,"endTime":1427.15,"body":"updated it with Alan Hirsch. Why"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1427.18,"endTime":1432.04,"body":"did you guys decide this is the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1427.18,"endTime":1432.04,"body":"time to do that with read Jesus?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1433.39,"endTime":1437.56,"body":"Yeah, well, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1433.39,"endTime":1437.56,"body":"came out in 2008. Eight, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1437.56,"endTime":1442.84,"body":"think, and I'm not that under"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1437.56,"endTime":1442.84,"body":"this kind of stuff, as Alan is."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1442.84,"endTime":1447.22,"body":"But Alan said, Well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1442.84,"endTime":1447.22,"body":"he had a nother book come out"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1447.22,"endTime":1449.74,"body":"that year? I think I do. And he"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1447.22,"endTime":1449.74,"body":"said, I think that book kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1449.74,"endTime":1454.87,"body":"got a bit lost with spring"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1449.74,"endTime":1454.87,"body":"activity books. Which probably"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1454.87,"endTime":1457.69,"body":"true, I don't know. But the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1454.87,"endTime":1457.69,"body":"other thing too, is that we've"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1457.69,"endTime":1463.06,"body":"just felt that since 2008, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1457.69,"endTime":1463.06,"body":"in particular, what's felt like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1463.06,"endTime":1470.8,"body":"a real acceleration of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1463.06,"endTime":1470.8,"body":"breaking confidence that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1470.8,"endTime":1474.79,"body":"Americans in particular have"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1470.8,"endTime":1474.79,"body":"with evangelical Christianity?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1475.0,"endTime":1479.08,"body":"Yeah, that that would I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1475.0,"endTime":1479.08,"body":"mentioned that word earlier and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1479.08,"endTime":1484.12,"body":"said, you know, this, because"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1479.08,"endTime":1484.12,"body":"that that's a trigger term."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1484.12,"endTime":1489.01,"body":"These days, evangelicals are not"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1484.12,"endTime":1489.01,"body":"regarded and followers of Jesus,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1489.31,"endTime":1494.14,"body":"particularly the loud ones, are"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1489.31,"endTime":1494.14,"body":"not respected. Just have to own"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1494.14,"endTime":1497.23,"body":"their reserve to acknowledge"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1494.14,"endTime":1497.23,"body":"that you can. You might want to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1497.23,"endTime":1500.44,"body":"disagree with me, maybe you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1497.23,"endTime":1500.44,"body":"might not, but others might want"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1500.44,"endTime":1504.13,"body":"to disagree with me as to why"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1500.44,"endTime":1504.13,"body":"that's happened. But rather than"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1504.13,"endTime":1506.5,"body":"getting into that, just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1504.13,"endTime":1506.5,"body":"acknowledging that the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1506.5,"endTime":1510.37,"body":"reputation of the evangelical"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1506.5,"endTime":1510.37,"body":"Protestant churches has just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1510.37,"endTime":1515.44,"body":"gone down and down and down. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1510.37,"endTime":1515.44,"body":"yet whether whether the loudest"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1515.44,"endTime":1519.16,"body":"ones about being the Jesus"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1515.44,"endTime":1519.16,"body":"people, and so Alan and I just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1519.16,"endTime":1521.56,"body":"felt we felt this way through"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1519.16,"endTime":1521.56,"body":"that night when we wrote it."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1521.56,"endTime":1525.04,"body":"It's like, we've got to read"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1521.56,"endTime":1525.04,"body":"Jesus as we're gonna be known as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1525.04,"endTime":1528.91,"body":"the Jesus people. And in that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1525.04,"endTime":1528.91,"body":"book, we start by telling the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1528.91,"endTime":1533.08,"body":"story of how, you know, the Ku"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1528.91,"endTime":1533.08,"body":"Klux Klan before they would go"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1533.08,"endTime":1537.22,"body":"out, you know, the tale of a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1533.08,"endTime":1537.22,"body":"particular night, when before"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1537.22,"endTime":1540.64,"body":"they went out and kidnapped a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1537.22,"endTime":1540.64,"body":"group of white civil rights"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1540.64,"endTime":1544.54,"body":"workers who had come down from"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1540.64,"endTime":1544.54,"body":"the north to, to be in Alabama,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1544.57,"endTime":1551.44,"body":"Mississippi. So working with the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1544.57,"endTime":1551.44,"body":"civil rights movement, right"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1551.44,"endTime":1553.63,"body":"before they went out and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1551.44,"endTime":1553.63,"body":"kidnapped these guys and then"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1553.63,"endTime":1558.01,"body":"murdered them. One of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1553.63,"endTime":1558.01,"body":"chaplains of the Ku Klux Klan"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1558.01,"endTime":1561.04,"body":"praised his very beautiful"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1558.01,"endTime":1561.04,"body":"prayer of that little blessing"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1561.04,"endTime":1564.16,"body":"us and being with us, and then"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1561.04,"endTime":1564.16,"body":"you could pray that prayer in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1564.16,"endTime":1566.89,"body":"just about any church to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1564.16,"endTime":1566.89,"body":"quite frank, but that prayer is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1566.89,"endTime":1570.52,"body":"prayed to kind of bless them on"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1566.89,"endTime":1570.52,"body":"their way as they go out and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1570.52,"endTime":1575.41,"body":"their kind of murderous rampage."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1570.52,"endTime":1575.41,"body":"Now, you know, think of examples"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1575.41,"endTime":1581.08,"body":"of Nazis doing that. And, of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1575.41,"endTime":1581.08,"body":"course, x doing that, and, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1581.08,"endTime":1587.59,"body":"know, you can think of, of even"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1581.08,"endTime":1587.59,"body":"even with sort of the response"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1587.59,"endTime":1593.65,"body":"to the election of Donald Trump"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1587.59,"endTime":1593.65,"body":"and the storming of the Capitol"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1593.65,"endTime":1596.23,"body":"and all those sorts of things"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1593.65,"endTime":1596.23,"body":"you can do people holding"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1596.53,"endTime":1600.88,"body":"placards about Jesus, in our"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1596.53,"endTime":1600.88,"body":"situation, it's not as brutal as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1601.09,"endTime":1603.85,"body":"going after murderers, civil"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1601.09,"endTime":1603.85,"body":"rights workers, but you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1603.85,"endTime":1608.23,"body":"terrorizing politicians and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1603.85,"endTime":1608.23,"body":"staff in the in the Capitol"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1608.23,"endTime":1612.25,"body":"building. They had no clue what"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1608.23,"endTime":1612.25,"body":"was going to happen. This was"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1612.25,"endTime":1616.57,"body":"terrible. I mean, no one can"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1612.25,"endTime":1616.57,"body":"justify it. So how do you slap"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1616.57,"endTime":1621.43,"body":"Jesus name More than say that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1616.57,"endTime":1621.43,"body":"you know, as you probably know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1621.43,"endTime":1625.9,"body":"Joshua, like the people praying"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1621.43,"endTime":1625.9,"body":"in the Capitol building, like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1625.9,"endTime":1628.93,"body":"protesters praying in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1625.9,"endTime":1628.93,"body":"Capitol building as if God was"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1628.93,"endTime":1632.77,"body":"with this violent rampage. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1628.93,"endTime":1632.77,"body":"so yeah, we just felt like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1632.77,"endTime":1637.3,"body":"come on, like, has anything"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1632.77,"endTime":1637.3,"body":"changed? Maybe we can get"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1637.3,"endTime":1641.05,"body":"through? What would it look like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1637.3,"endTime":1641.05,"body":"if we refreshed this book, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1641.05,"endTime":1644.47,"body":"know, particularly for our"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1641.05,"endTime":1644.47,"body":"current age, and not just, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1644.47,"endTime":1648.85,"body":"not just an attack on, it's not"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1644.47,"endTime":1648.85,"body":"an attack on Trump supporters or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1648.85,"endTime":1652.12,"body":"anything like that we avoid cut"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1648.85,"endTime":1652.12,"body":"on their politics or any of that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1652.12,"endTime":1657.76,"body":"stuff. We just say, there's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1652.12,"endTime":1657.76,"body":"real problem here, around the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1657.76,"endTime":1661.78,"body":"way evangelicals are known for"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1657.76,"endTime":1661.78,"body":"their politics or for their"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1662.05,"endTime":1666.94,"body":"conservative values, or those"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1662.05,"endTime":1666.94,"body":"sorts of things. Not known are"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1666.94,"endTime":1670.42,"body":"they're the people. They're the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1666.94,"endTime":1670.42,"body":"ones who try to be like Jesus."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1670.42,"endTime":1674.8,"body":"And that disconnect is deeply,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1670.42,"endTime":1674.8,"body":"deeply concern for us."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1675.64,"endTime":1678.73,"body":"Yeah, and it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1675.64,"endTime":1678.73,"body":"seems, it seems to me, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1678.76,"endTime":1685.15,"body":"that we, as the church have had"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1678.76,"endTime":1685.15,"body":"some mission drift, and it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1685.18,"endTime":1689.95,"body":"doesn't take a miss a very large"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1685.18,"endTime":1689.95,"body":"misalignment of the very"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1689.95,"endTime":1695.44,"body":"beginning to eventually come and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1689.95,"endTime":1695.44,"body":"have a huge misalignment, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1695.44,"endTime":1699.73,"body":"know, 30 years down the road,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1695.44,"endTime":1699.73,"body":"because you're just veering off"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1699.76,"endTime":1708.64,"body":"so far, right or left? So how"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1699.76,"endTime":1708.64,"body":"can we start to, to read Jesus?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1708.67,"endTime":1714.04,"body":"And how how to what's a process"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1708.67,"endTime":1714.04,"body":"that we can do as the church to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1714.04,"endTime":1719.29,"body":"get back into alignment with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1714.04,"endTime":1719.29,"body":"Christ as the center as we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1719.32,"endTime":1724.33,"body":"moving forward? And not stay"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1719.32,"endTime":1724.33,"body":"veered off way too far? Right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1725.74,"endTime":1728.26,"body":"Well, I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1725.74,"endTime":1728.26,"body":"that there has to first be a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1728.71,"endTime":1735.22,"body":"significant process of, of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1728.71,"endTime":1735.22,"body":"repentance. And then not"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1735.22,"endTime":1737.8,"body":"everyone listening to this was"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1735.22,"endTime":1737.8,"body":"storming the Capitol, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1737.8,"endTime":1741.04,"body":"talking about like, repent of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1737.8,"endTime":1741.04,"body":"those things, not my own view,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1741.22,"endTime":1745.12,"body":"none of you driving cars into"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1741.22,"endTime":1745.12,"body":"black lives matter. You know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1746.05,"endTime":1751.09,"body":"marches are like, these are"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1746.05,"endTime":1751.09,"body":"extreme examples. But we're all"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1751.09,"endTime":1756.22,"body":"part of a system, which has"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1751.09,"endTime":1756.22,"body":"become so polarized politically"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1756.22,"endTime":1760.84,"body":"and so oriented around concerns"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1756.22,"endTime":1760.84,"body":"for for our own religious"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1760.84,"endTime":1765.31,"body":"freedom, or for our places that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1760.84,"endTime":1765.31,"body":"the church in society are"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1765.31,"endTime":1769.81,"body":"demanding that our particular"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1765.31,"endTime":1769.81,"body":"values be followed by everyone"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1769.81,"endTime":1775.09,"body":"in society. So I'm not"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1769.81,"endTime":1775.09,"body":"commenting on those values, per"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1775.09,"endTime":1780.28,"body":"se, but our arrogance and and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1775.09,"endTime":1780.28,"body":"needs to be right and listened"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1780.28,"endTime":1784.9,"body":"to. And it has just led to a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1780.28,"endTime":1784.9,"body":"diminishing of our reputation."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1784.9,"endTime":1790.18,"body":"And I think, divesting ourselves"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1784.9,"endTime":1790.18,"body":"of this, I mean, we have to come"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1790.18,"endTime":1794.44,"body":"to a point collectively where we"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1790.18,"endTime":1794.44,"body":"can say, I take certain views on"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1794.44,"endTime":1800.77,"body":"certain ethical concerns in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1794.44,"endTime":1800.77,"body":"society. But primarily, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1800.77,"endTime":1804.55,"body":"concerned about mirroring or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1800.77,"endTime":1804.55,"body":"presenting Jesus in the midst of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1804.55,"endTime":1809.65,"body":"this and so left and right,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1804.55,"endTime":1809.65,"body":"black and white, Asian and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1809.65,"endTime":1814.84,"body":"Latino, Latina, are coming"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1809.65,"endTime":1814.84,"body":"together on their knees and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1814.84,"endTime":1817.66,"body":"repenting and saying, we put it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1814.84,"endTime":1817.66,"body":"all down like we, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1817.66,"endTime":1821.95,"body":"we've got to move to a place"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1817.66,"endTime":1821.95,"body":"where, where we can acknowledge"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1821.95,"endTime":1824.95,"body":"our own brokenness and the fact"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1821.95,"endTime":1824.95,"body":"that so much of what we've put"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1824.95,"endTime":1830.38,"body":"our hand to has not opened"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1824.95,"endTime":1830.38,"body":"people's eyes to Jesus. I posted"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1830.38,"endTime":1834.61,"body":"something on social media the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1830.38,"endTime":1834.61,"body":"day about, it was a kind of a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1834.64,"endTime":1837.13,"body":"meme where it says like, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1834.64,"endTime":1837.13,"body":"Christians are crying out for"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1837.13,"endTime":1841.78,"body":"revival. And what God does is He"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1837.13,"endTime":1841.78,"body":"exposes all the corruption and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1841.78,"endTime":1846.67,"body":"abuses in a church and then the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1841.78,"endTime":1846.67,"body":"Christians say, ah, Satan, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1846.67,"endTime":1850.78,"body":"know, Satan's attacking us by"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1846.67,"endTime":1850.78,"body":"exposing all these things. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1850.78,"endTime":1853.87,"body":"you think, what would it be if"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1850.78,"endTime":1853.87,"body":"we didn't wake up and we think"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1853.87,"endTime":1858.85,"body":"to ourselves, all of these high"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1853.87,"endTime":1858.85,"body":"profile leaders, all of these"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1858.85,"endTime":1863.47,"body":"gigantic churches, big"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1858.85,"endTime":1863.47,"body":"movements, x 29, maschio, heels,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1864.46,"endTime":1867.79,"body":"you know, there's their crumble,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1864.46,"endTime":1867.79,"body":"and some of them disappear."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1867.79,"endTime":1873.01,"body":"They, their reputations are"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1867.79,"endTime":1873.01,"body":"crumbling, individual celebrity"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1873.01,"endTime":1878.56,"body":"pastors, reputations now become"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1873.01,"endTime":1878.56,"body":"magnets, it's like accelerating"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1878.56,"endTime":1883.87,"body":"at a pious before all of that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1878.56,"endTime":1883.87,"body":"of course, the same thing was"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1883.87,"endTime":1888.13,"body":"happening in the Catholic Church"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1883.87,"endTime":1888.13,"body":"with the exposing of like rings"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1888.13,"endTime":1893.35,"body":"or nests, of pedophile priests"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1888.13,"endTime":1893.35,"body":"in certain cities across my"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1893.35,"endTime":1897.22,"body":"country, yours Ireland and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1893.35,"endTime":1897.22,"body":"places like that. It feels like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1897.22,"endTime":1901.3,"body":"a great unveiling, like, like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1897.22,"endTime":1901.3,"body":"God is like, peeling back like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1901.3,"endTime":1907.54,"body":"this is the taking the lid off"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1901.3,"endTime":1907.54,"body":"this kind of this? fettered, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1907.54,"endTime":1913.72,"body":"know, out of date. foodstuff"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1907.54,"endTime":1913.72,"body":"things like steel. Actually,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1913.72,"endTime":1917.14,"body":"that's part of the process,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1913.72,"endTime":1917.14,"body":"isn't it? It's just like, we've"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1917.14,"endTime":1921.79,"body":"been in spouts like, yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1917.14,"endTime":1921.79,"body":"it's worse. This is what we come"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1921.79,"endTime":1924.25,"body":"to. And I know that people"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1921.79,"endTime":1924.25,"body":"listening to this will say, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1924.25,"endTime":1927.88,"body":"not a pedophile and and I'm not"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1924.25,"endTime":1927.88,"body":"a high profile leader who's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1928.0,"endTime":1931.45,"body":"committed some sexual sin. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1928.0,"endTime":1931.45,"body":"I'm not a pedophile priest, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1931.45,"endTime":1937.39,"body":"I'm not a, you know, a Capitol"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1931.45,"endTime":1937.39,"body":"building. invader. No, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1937.39,"endTime":1942.64,"body":"not. You're not not but"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1937.39,"endTime":1942.64,"body":"acknowledging that we are all"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1942.64,"endTime":1946.93,"body":"seen as Jesus followers as part"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1942.64,"endTime":1946.93,"body":"of this kind of world. I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1946.93,"endTime":1951.19,"body":"repentance is the first step of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1946.93,"endTime":1951.19,"body":"now, Alan Hirsch is writing a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1951.19,"endTime":1955.6,"body":"book at the moment on"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1951.19,"endTime":1955.6,"body":"repentance, saying this is the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1955.6,"endTime":1959.08,"body":"first like, we've just got to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1955.6,"endTime":1959.08,"body":"get get to our knees and lay it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1959.08,"endTime":1964.06,"body":"all down. And as as one church,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1959.08,"endTime":1964.06,"body":"not as the left as the right. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1964.06,"endTime":1968.83,"body":"mean, they're both as bad other"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1964.06,"endTime":1968.83,"body":"in so many respects, in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1968.83,"endTime":1973.78,"body":"different ways, but just drop"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1968.83,"endTime":1973.78,"body":"into our knees and come into"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1973.78,"endTime":1980.71,"body":"Christ empty handed, and remake"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1973.78,"endTime":1980.71,"body":"us, like reshape us afresh. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1980.71,"endTime":1984.25,"body":"then, of course, back into the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1980.71,"endTime":1984.25,"body":"text back to Jesus, as we were"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1984.25,"endTime":1988.24,"body":"saying, about, who is this that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1984.25,"endTime":1988.24,"body":"we're talking about? Is this"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1988.24,"endTime":1992.35,"body":"Republican Jesus? You know, is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1988.24,"endTime":1992.35,"body":"this black lives with Jesus? Is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1992.35,"endTime":1996.97,"body":"this kind of left wing liberal"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1992.35,"endTime":1996.97,"body":"Jesus? No, it's just Jesus just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1996.97,"endTime":2000.75,"body":"go back to the person of Jesus,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":1996.97,"endTime":2000.75,"body":"which, you know, as we've said"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2000.75,"endTime":2004.29,"body":"before, isn't necessarily easy"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2000.75,"endTime":2004.29,"body":"to understand in our own"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2004.29,"endTime":2008.94,"body":"context. But I'm pretty sure if"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2004.29,"endTime":2008.94,"body":"we encountered him today, he"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2008.94,"endTime":2016.2,"body":"would piss us all off in some"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2008.94,"endTime":2016.2,"body":"way or him."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2019.11,"endTime":2021.09,"body":"Yeah, and I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2019.11,"endTime":2021.09,"body":"think, you know, how do we get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2021.63,"endTime":2027.15,"body":"Christianity to be less of a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2021.63,"endTime":2027.15,"body":"religious institution, and more"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2027.18,"endTime":2031.8,"body":"of an embodiment of Christ? What"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2027.18,"endTime":2031.8,"body":"does that look like? We have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2031.8,"endTime":2034.8,"body":"that repentance, but what are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2031.8,"endTime":2034.8,"body":"those next things that we could"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2034.8,"endTime":2038.55,"body":"get to get rid of that religious"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2034.8,"endTime":2038.55,"body":"institution of Christianity and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2038.55,"endTime":2043.38,"body":"just embody Christ and just move"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2038.55,"endTime":2043.38,"body":"forward into the world that way?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2044.82,"endTime":2048.5099999999998,"body":"Yeah, and I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2044.82,"endTime":2048.5099999999998,"body":"I think that that's, that's the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2048.5099999999998,"endTime":2052.08,"body":"undoing of so much of that kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2048.5099999999998,"endTime":2052.08,"body":"of leadership classes about"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2052.8599999999997,"endTime":2058.89,"body":"their reliance on institutional"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2052.8599999999997,"endTime":2058.89,"body":"devices or paraphernalia like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2058.92,"endTime":2064.41,"body":"nondisclosure agreements or the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2058.92,"endTime":2064.41,"body":"sale of critics or, this is just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2064.41,"endTime":2067.7999999999997,"body":"what Jesus reacted against. You"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2064.41,"endTime":2067.7999999999997,"body":"know, I mean, always think of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2067.7999999999997,"endTime":2072.48,"body":"when Jesus says, I am the good"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2067.7999999999997,"endTime":2072.48,"body":"shepherd. In John chapter 10. It"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2072.48,"endTime":2075.9,"body":"seems lovely. Like that's like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2072.48,"endTime":2075.9,"body":"oh, the Good Shepherd, that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2075.9,"endTime":2080.6099999999997,"body":"sounds good. But he's that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2075.9,"endTime":2080.6099999999997,"body":"conversation. What he's saying,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2080.6099999999997,"endTime":2084.33,"body":"John, chapter 10, there comes"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2080.6099999999997,"endTime":2084.33,"body":"out of his engagement with with"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2084.33,"endTime":2087.72,"body":"the religious elite at the end"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2084.33,"endTime":2087.72,"body":"of John chapter nine, but they"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2087.72,"endTime":2092.94,"body":"are brutalized and humiliated"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2087.72,"endTime":2092.94,"body":"and tried to silence a poor"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2092.94,"endTime":2096.69,"body":"blind man who's been healed by I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2092.94,"endTime":2096.69,"body":"mean, it's crime as he got"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2096.69,"endTime":2102.8399999999997,"body":"healed by Jesus and religious"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2096.69,"endTime":2102.8399999999997,"body":"elites treatment of him and his"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2102.87,"endTime":2105.99,"body":"aged parents. It's just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2102.87,"endTime":2105.99,"body":"disgusting. I mean, it's just,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2106.17,"endTime":2110.1,"body":"yeah. But Jesus says, I have a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2106.17,"endTime":2110.1,"body":"good shepherd, that's awfully"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2110.1,"endTime":2115.83,"body":"spare time saying you are a Bad"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2110.1,"endTime":2115.83,"body":"Shepherds like, you are leaving,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2115.83,"endTime":2119.9700000000003,"body":"but you're crushing people, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2115.83,"endTime":2119.9700000000003,"body":"are destroying people, then the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2119.9700000000003,"endTime":2123.0,"body":"announcement is, but they'll"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2119.9700000000003,"endTime":2123.0,"body":"hear my voice and they'll fire"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2123.0,"endTime":2125.67,"body":"me because I'm the good ship, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2123.0,"endTime":2125.67,"body":"just jumped to the Good Shepherd"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2125.67,"endTime":2129.0,"body":"bar, we don't want to hear the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2125.67,"endTime":2129.0,"body":"story about how Jesus responds"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2129.0,"endTime":2133.6800000000003,"body":"to religious elitism, which, by"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2129.0,"endTime":2133.6800000000003,"body":"its very nature often ends up"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2134.4900000000002,"endTime":2136.38,"body":"very toxic kind of places."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2137.52,"endTime":2142.7400000000002,"body":"You know, we we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2137.52,"endTime":2142.7400000000002,"body":"often miss that, that Jesus is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2142.7400000000002,"endTime":2147.9,"body":"prophet, and calling us into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2142.7400000000002,"endTime":2147.9,"body":"into new spaces and calling out"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2148.4100000000003,"endTime":2152.13,"body":"the things that are not aligned."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2148.4100000000003,"endTime":2152.13,"body":"You know, he's calling us to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2152.13,"endTime":2154.86,"body":"live into the kingdom and what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2152.13,"endTime":2154.86,"body":"does it look like? What does"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2154.86,"endTime":2157.26,"body":"this kingdom of God look like?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2154.86,"endTime":2157.26,"body":"You know, I always go back to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2157.26,"endTime":2160.98,"body":"the very beginning of him"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2157.26,"endTime":2160.98,"body":"announcing his ministry, and,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2161.37,"endTime":2166.11,"body":"you know, rolling out the scroll"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2161.37,"endTime":2166.11,"body":"of Isaiah 61. You know, claiming"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2166.11,"endTime":2169.47,"body":"good news to the poor, setting"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2166.11,"endTime":2169.47,"body":"the captives free, and all the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2169.47,"endTime":2173.73,"body":"Jews were obviously excited that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2169.47,"endTime":2173.73,"body":"this may be the year of Lords"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2173.73,"endTime":2178.77,"body":"favor, like this is all for us."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2173.73,"endTime":2178.77,"body":"And then Jesus saying no, just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2178.77,"endTime":2183.57,"body":"remember, you know, with Elijah."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2178.77,"endTime":2183.57,"body":"You know, there were a lot of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2183.57,"endTime":2188.01,"body":"lepers, but only naming the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2183.57,"endTime":2188.01,"body":"Syrian was was healed. Elijah"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2188.01,"endTime":2191.58,"body":"went to the widow of Sarah Fath,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2188.01,"endTime":2191.58,"body":"and not other, any other widows"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2191.58,"endTime":2195.36,"body":"of Israel. And they were like,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2191.58,"endTime":2195.36,"body":"Okay, I'm gonna throw you off a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2195.36,"endTime":2201.3,"body":"cliff. And we often forget that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2195.36,"endTime":2201.3,"body":"Jesus is is this one that goes"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2201.3,"endTime":2205.35,"body":"and provokes in such a way that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2201.3,"endTime":2205.35,"body":"calls people out to the margins"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2206.04,"endTime":2211.05,"body":"to all people and to the people"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2206.04,"endTime":2211.05,"body":"that are not part of that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2211.32,"endTime":2216.42,"body":"community and are on the outside"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2211.32,"endTime":2216.42,"body":"and it really provokes the ones"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2216.42,"endTime":2222.18,"body":"that are in The institution and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2216.42,"endTime":2222.18,"body":"wanting to see actually"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2222.18,"endTime":2226.32,"body":"I've entered in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2222.18,"endTime":2226.32,"body":"the job 10 story, after berating"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2226.32,"endTime":2230.64,"body":"them as being bad, bad"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2226.32,"endTime":2230.64,"body":"shepherds, and that's it himself"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2230.64,"endTime":2235.8,"body":"as the Good Shepherd. He then to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2230.64,"endTime":2235.8,"body":"your point, he then says, and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2235.8,"endTime":2239.43,"body":"have I have shaped from other"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2235.8,"endTime":2239.43,"body":"other pigs that I will call a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2239.43,"endTime":2242.43,"body":"moment joined together with"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2239.43,"endTime":2242.43,"body":"those who follow. And it's at"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2242.46,"endTime":2247.2,"body":"that point that the Pharisees"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2242.46,"endTime":2247.2,"body":"say, This man is insane. Like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2247.2,"endTime":2252.09,"body":"they literally, He's crazy. He's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2247.2,"endTime":2252.09,"body":"just like, there's no point in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2252.09,"endTime":2255.78,"body":"arguing about this, this man is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2252.09,"endTime":2255.78,"body":"literally insane. That's the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2255.78,"endTime":2259.41,"body":"thing that tips them over the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2255.78,"endTime":2259.41,"body":"edge. The idea that, yeah, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2259.41,"endTime":2263.4,"body":"going to call Israel to follow"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2259.41,"endTime":2263.4,"body":"me, but I'm calling other"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2263.4,"endTime":2267.42,"body":"tribes, who will come and join"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2263.4,"endTime":2267.42,"body":"us. For them that was just like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2269.1,"endTime":2272.94,"body":"of course, that was so shaped by"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2269.1,"endTime":2272.94,"body":"their fear of having been"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2273.03,"endTime":2276.93,"body":"brutalized by invasion, of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2273.03,"endTime":2276.93,"body":"course, the exile, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2276.93,"endTime":2280.65,"body":"generations before, but also the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2276.93,"endTime":2280.65,"body":"invasion of the Greeks, and now"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2280.65,"endTime":2284.37,"body":"the Romans, and so they were"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2280.65,"endTime":2284.37,"body":"terrified of the outsider. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2284.37,"endTime":2288.9,"body":"in their terror, they then"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2284.37,"endTime":2288.9,"body":"terrorized, the people of Israel"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2288.9,"endTime":2294.39,"body":"themselves. The Jesus comes with"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2288.9,"endTime":2294.39,"body":"this message of, I've come to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2294.39,"endTime":2297.21,"body":"bring you freedom, like, Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2294.39,"endTime":2297.21,"body":"well, I want you to be free."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2297.21,"endTime":2301.47,"body":"Indeed, no sheep wants to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2297.21,"endTime":2301.47,"body":"kept in the pen, like, I had a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2301.47,"endTime":2304.71,"body":"shepherd tell me once that if"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2301.47,"endTime":2304.71,"body":"you put sheep in the pen, for"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2304.71,"endTime":2308.7,"body":"too long, they will, they'll"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2304.71,"endTime":2308.7,"body":"break their own necks, trying to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2309.54,"endTime":2313.38,"body":"all over each other to get out,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2309.54,"endTime":2313.38,"body":"like, you put them in there at"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2313.38,"endTime":2316.59,"body":"night just to keep them safe,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2313.38,"endTime":2316.59,"body":"you release them, as soon as the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2316.59,"endTime":2319.59,"body":"sun comes up, they start"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2316.59,"endTime":2319.59,"body":"bleeding and jumping around"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2319.59,"endTime":2322.68,"body":"trying to get out and release"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2319.59,"endTime":2322.68,"body":"them his way as a sheep meant to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2322.68,"endTime":2327.33,"body":"be out on the hillsides like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2322.68,"endTime":2327.33,"body":"farming and grazing. And so this"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2327.33,"endTime":2331.74,"body":"image of Jesus presents as a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2327.33,"endTime":2331.74,"body":"beautiful mosaic you had pinned"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2331.74,"endTime":2335.73,"body":"them in with all your toxic"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2331.74,"endTime":2335.73,"body":"walls and your fear and your"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2335.73,"endTime":2342.27,"body":"canal, I throwing open the gate,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2335.73,"endTime":2342.27,"body":"and I believe it's a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2342.27,"endTime":2345.36,"body":"image. And their response to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2342.27,"endTime":2345.36,"body":"that is you crazy."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2347.909,"endTime":2351.179,"body":"That's very"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2347.909,"endTime":2351.179,"body":"true. It's crazy, but it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2351.179,"endTime":2354.869,"body":"actually reveals a lot about"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2351.179,"endTime":2354.869,"body":"what the church is looking like"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2354.869,"endTime":2360.479,"body":"at the moment of a, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2354.869,"endTime":2360.479,"body":"trapped in sheep. And that are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2360.479,"endTime":2363.989,"body":"not sent out into the, into the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2360.479,"endTime":2363.989,"body":"wild to be able to follow Jesus,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2363.989,"endTime":2367.649,"body":"because there's a lot of you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2363.989,"endTime":2367.649,"body":"know, whatever it is trust"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2367.649,"endTime":2373.259,"body":"issues or, you know, control"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2367.649,"endTime":2373.259,"body":"issues. But it just reveals a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2373.259,"endTime":2378.689,"body":"lot that we need to press out to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2373.259,"endTime":2378.689,"body":"the margins and to go where"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2378.689,"endTime":2386.369,"body":"Jesus would go. How do we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2378.689,"endTime":2386.369,"body":"actually open up the gates and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2386.369,"endTime":2393.449,"body":"get get the sheep out? So that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2386.369,"endTime":2393.449,"body":"we start to the world says, Wow,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2393.479,"endTime":2395.159,"body":"you actually looked like Jesus"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2393.479,"endTime":2395.159,"body":"now?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2396.09,"endTime":2399.12,"body":"Yeah, well, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2396.09,"endTime":2399.12,"body":"thing is, Joshua, that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2399.12,"endTime":2403.17,"body":"happening anyway. I mean, as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2399.12,"endTime":2403.17,"body":"much as church leaders might try"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2403.17,"endTime":2409.23,"body":"to keep the gates shut and keep"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2403.17,"endTime":2409.23,"body":"the system tight. You're finding"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2409.23,"endTime":2412.53,"body":"it in positive ways people are"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2409.23,"endTime":2412.53,"body":"slipping out. And they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2412.53,"endTime":2416.64,"body":"finding their way into mission"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2412.53,"endTime":2416.64,"body":"agencies and parachurch"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2416.64,"endTime":2420.45,"body":"organizations, and they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2416.64,"endTime":2420.45,"body":"saying, Oh, wow, I'm serving"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2420.45,"endTime":2424.23,"body":"here at Campus, ministry, all"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2420.45,"endTime":2424.23,"body":"nations or wherever. And this is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2424.23,"endTime":2426.93,"body":"what church was meant to be all"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2424.23,"endTime":2426.93,"body":"along, it's alive, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2426.93,"endTime":2431.22,"body":"collaborative, it's intuitive,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2426.93,"endTime":2431.22,"body":"it's, it's deeply reliant on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2431.22,"endTime":2436.17,"body":"presence of God. And, ah, this"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2431.22,"endTime":2436.17,"body":"is this is freedom, or they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2436.17,"endTime":2439.83,"body":"finding their way, in less"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2436.17,"endTime":2439.83,"body":"positive ways through really"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2441.48,"endTime":2446.22,"body":"treacherous journeys of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2441.48,"endTime":2446.22,"body":"deconstruction. And the church"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2446.22,"endTime":2449.49,"body":"just writes them and condemns"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2446.22,"endTime":2449.49,"body":"them for this. But actually,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2449.49,"endTime":2452.34,"body":"what they're doing is they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2449.49,"endTime":2452.34,"body":"trying to find their way to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2452.88,"endTime":2457.35,"body":"beautiful green hillsides, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2452.88,"endTime":2457.35,"body":"know, but they tried to divest"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2457.65,"endTime":2461.25,"body":"that which is stuck to them"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2457.65,"endTime":2461.25,"body":"because of this kind of toxic"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2461.25,"endTime":2464.01,"body":"form of religion. And that's not"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2461.25,"endTime":2464.01,"body":"an easy thing to do. So of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2464.01,"endTime":2466.92,"body":"course, a lot of people going"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2464.01,"endTime":2466.92,"body":"through that process, do throw"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2466.92,"endTime":2471.03,"body":"out some good stuff, as well as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2466.92,"endTime":2471.03,"body":"the bad stuff. And there's no,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2471.09,"endTime":2474.06,"body":"there's no rule. There's no"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2471.09,"endTime":2474.06,"body":"roadmap for this. And then all"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2474.06,"endTime":2477.81,"body":"you do then is get berated by"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2474.06,"endTime":2477.81,"body":"the people back in the sheep pen"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2477.81,"endTime":2482.43,"body":"or the Bad Shepherds. And it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2477.81,"endTime":2482.43,"body":"just exacerbates your whole"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2482.43,"endTime":2486.45,"body":"sense of you'll give up. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2482.43,"endTime":2486.45,"body":"you kick them when they're down."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2486.45,"endTime":2488.88,"body":"But what they're doing is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2486.45,"endTime":2488.88,"body":"they're trying to find Jesus to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2488.88,"endTime":2494.82,"body":"freedom so so I think partly it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2488.88,"endTime":2494.82,"body":"might be that we need to open"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2494.82,"endTime":2498.36,"body":"the gates a little bit more we"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2494.82,"endTime":2498.36,"body":"need to actually help develop"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2498.36,"endTime":2505.26,"body":"processes of deconstruction and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2498.36,"endTime":2505.26,"body":"then reconstructed faith. But do"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2505.26,"endTime":2509.22,"body":"you think I'm confident about"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2505.26,"endTime":2509.22,"body":"that happening in a kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2509.22,"endTime":2513.27,"body":"institutional sense? Mmm hmm."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2509.22,"endTime":2513.27,"body":"I'm sorry to tell you I have my"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2513.27,"endTime":2514.08,"body":"doubts about"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2514.829,"endTime":2517.499,"body":"Yeah, and it's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2514.829,"endTime":2517.499,"body":"it's gonna I mean, it is a mess."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2517.499,"endTime":2520.529,"body":"See processes were following"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2517.499,"endTime":2520.529,"body":"Jesus and trying to figure these"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2520.529,"endTime":2523.709,"body":"things out. You know, and once"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2520.529,"endTime":2523.709,"body":"we tried to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2523.71,"endTime":2525.48,"body":"totally"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2523.71,"endTime":2525.48,"body":"discoveries that like everyone"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2525.48,"endTime":2528.81,"body":"out there isn't as unhappy as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2525.48,"endTime":2528.81,"body":"our church told us they were in."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2530.01,"endTime":2532.86,"body":"Marriage isn't as bad as they"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2530.01,"endTime":2532.86,"body":"told us they were they aren't."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2532.89,"endTime":2536.49,"body":"Or alcoholics are getting"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2532.89,"endTime":2536.49,"body":"abortions, every chance they"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2536.49,"endTime":2540.12,"body":"have, like what we discovered"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2536.49,"endTime":2540.12,"body":"was like, not as good American"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2540.12,"endTime":2542.79,"body":"people, like, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2540.12,"endTime":2542.79,"body":"best Syrian people, and there's,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2543.12,"endTime":2545.76,"body":"there's good, there's good"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2543.12,"endTime":2545.76,"body":"Muslim people, and there's good"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2545.76,"endTime":2549.87,"body":"Buddhist people. You know, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2545.76,"endTime":2549.87,"body":"discovering that there's life"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2549.87,"endTime":2553.86,"body":"everywhere that God is present"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2549.87,"endTime":2553.86,"body":"everywhere. And it's like, Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2553.86,"endTime":2558.84,"body":"what did I need that thing back"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2553.86,"endTime":2558.84,"body":"there for it? So it's, you know?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2561.36,"endTime":2565.8,"body":"Do you remember that movie,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2561.36,"endTime":2565.8,"body":"Finding Nemo when Nemo gets"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2566.97,"endTime":2571.08,"body":"fished out of the Great Barrier"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2566.97,"endTime":2571.08,"body":"Reef and put into a indoor"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2571.08,"endTime":2577.56,"body":"aquarium at the dentist, just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2571.08,"endTime":2577.56,"body":"surgery. And the first thing"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2577.56,"endTime":2580.44,"body":"that happens, all the fish in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2577.56,"endTime":2580.44,"body":"the aquarium all is all going to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2580.44,"endTime":2583.11,"body":"the edge of the aquarium I keep"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2580.44,"endTime":2583.11,"body":"away from him. Because he's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2583.11,"endTime":2588.06,"body":"dirty, like, here, the prone has"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2583.11,"endTime":2588.06,"body":"to come out and like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2588.12,"endTime":2591.51,"body":"clean him so that they can"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2588.12,"endTime":2591.51,"body":"engage with them. And I think,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2592.02,"endTime":2596.28,"body":"since so much like conversion"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2592.02,"endTime":2596.28,"body":"isn't playing about by making"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2596.28,"endTime":2600.72,"body":"him look like one of us. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2596.28,"endTime":2600.72,"body":"then the kind of the conceit of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2600.72,"endTime":2603.06,"body":"that picture is that you could"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2600.72,"endTime":2603.06,"body":"get flushed down the toilet, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2603.06,"endTime":2606.48,"body":"they'll actually take you back"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2603.06,"endTime":2606.48,"body":"out into the ocean. And you can"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2606.48,"endTime":2609.18,"body":"swim back to the Great Barrier"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2606.48,"endTime":2609.18,"body":"Reef. But here's the thing, like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2609.18,"endTime":2613.11,"body":"if you put your pet goldfish, or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2609.18,"endTime":2613.11,"body":"your pet tropical fish in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2613.11,"endTime":2617.25,"body":"river system or drop them in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2613.11,"endTime":2617.25,"body":"ocean, you know, they die like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2617.25,"endTime":2621.03,"body":"immediately because they've"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2617.25,"endTime":2621.03,"body":"become so close to they become"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2621.03,"endTime":2626.76,"body":"so used to this perfectly"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2621.03,"endTime":2626.76,"body":"designed ecosystem. Yeah, they"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2626.76,"endTime":2631.44,"body":"don't have the capacity to live"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2626.76,"endTime":2631.44,"body":"in the wild. And I suspect"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2631.44,"endTime":2634.29,"body":"that's what a lot of what our"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2631.44,"endTime":2634.29,"body":"churches do. I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2634.29,"endTime":2637.98,"body":"lot of what youth ministries do"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2634.29,"endTime":2637.98,"body":"and young adult ministry."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2638.52,"endTime":2642.33,"body":"They're about keeping you away"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2638.52,"endTime":2642.33,"body":"from the wild blue ocean, or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2642.33,"endTime":2645.03,"body":"switch from rolling green hills"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2642.33,"endTime":2645.03,"body":"to walk blue ocean with a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2645.03,"endTime":2649.11,"body":"metaphor. It's like don't go out"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2645.03,"endTime":2649.11,"body":"there. It's disgusting and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2649.11,"endTime":2652.59,"body":"filthy and tough. So much of our"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2649.11,"endTime":2652.59,"body":"youth ministry is about how do"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2652.59,"endTime":2656.46,"body":"we keep you out of how we get"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2652.59,"endTime":2656.46,"body":"you to find a good Christian"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2656.7,"endTime":2659.61,"body":"boyfriend or girlfriend? How do"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2656.7,"endTime":2659.61,"body":"we stop you taking drugs,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2659.61,"endTime":2662.19,"body":"reading these books, watching"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2659.61,"endTime":2662.19,"body":"those movies doing this doing"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2662.19,"endTime":2664.83,"body":"that? It's like we appear the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2662.19,"endTime":2664.83,"body":"frauds we're just cleaning"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2664.83,"endTime":2668.49,"body":"people over and over and over"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2664.83,"endTime":2668.49,"body":"and over. And then when they go"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2668.49,"endTime":2672.0,"body":"off to university off to college"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2668.49,"endTime":2672.0,"body":"somewhere or they get a job"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2672.0,"endTime":2676.89,"body":"somewhere and they just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2672.0,"endTime":2676.89,"body":"completely die? Yeah. Then we"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2676.89,"endTime":2681.03,"body":"ask ourselves, what was wrong"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2676.89,"endTime":2681.03,"body":"with their faith, no matter what"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2681.03,"endTime":2683.79,"body":"was wrong with the way we've"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2681.03,"endTime":2683.79,"body":"discipled them most of the way"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2683.79,"endTime":2688.11,"body":"we will equip them to live in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2683.79,"endTime":2688.11,"body":"the world as a Jesus follower"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2688.14,"endTime":2692.28,"body":"with confidence and vitality and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2688.14,"endTime":2692.28,"body":"life experience in God's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2692.28,"endTime":2696.6,"body":"presence, trusting in Jesus,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2692.28,"endTime":2696.6,"body":"finding other Christians to find"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2696.6,"endTime":2699.24,"body":"fellowship with a partnership"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2696.6,"endTime":2699.24,"body":"with but also engaging in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2699.24,"endTime":2703.47,"body":"world. What was wrong with the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2699.24,"endTime":2703.47,"body":"way we raised young people as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2703.47,"endTime":2704.16,"body":"Christians?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2705.42,"endTime":2709.35,"body":"Wow. I love that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2705.42,"endTime":2709.35,"body":"analogy. And it reminds me of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2709.38,"endTime":2712.26,"body":"you know, the story of the woman"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2709.38,"endTime":2712.26,"body":"with issue of blood that come in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2712.26,"endTime":2718.2,"body":"and touching Jesus's robe. And,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2712.26,"endTime":2718.2,"body":"you know, everybody said, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2718.2,"endTime":2723.3,"body":"are going to be defiled if, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2718.2,"endTime":2723.3,"body":"know, she touches you like, and,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2723.57,"endTime":2727.71,"body":"you know, their power went out"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2723.57,"endTime":2727.71,"body":"of him. She was healed. He said,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2727.71,"endTime":2730.44,"body":"Who touched me and she was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2727.71,"endTime":2730.44,"body":"quivering in fear, because she"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2730.44,"endTime":2734.61,"body":"knew that, you know, she was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2730.44,"endTime":2734.61,"body":"defiled and she was defiling."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2734.97,"endTime":2740.01,"body":"This beautiful man, Jesus. But"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2734.97,"endTime":2740.01,"body":"he wasn't defiled. He was the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2740.01,"endTime":2745.11,"body":"one, as he was touched, he was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2740.01,"endTime":2745.11,"body":"actually actually able to make"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2745.11,"endTime":2751.71,"body":"things clean, and whole. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2745.11,"endTime":2751.71,"body":"it's as we go out, we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2751.71,"endTime":2755.82,"body":"actually not going to be"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2751.71,"endTime":2755.82,"body":"defiled. But there actually can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2755.82,"endTime":2761.43,"body":"be a transformation that happens"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2755.82,"endTime":2761.43,"body":"in the places and the people"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2761.43,"endTime":2762.9,"body":"that we start to encounter"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2765.57,"endTime":2768.39,"body":"is a kind of fear"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2765.57,"endTime":2768.39,"body":"about the fragility of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2768.39,"endTime":2773.91,"body":"gospel that can easily be broken"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2768.39,"endTime":2773.91,"body":"or shattered. There's a fear"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2773.91,"endTime":2778.23,"body":"about the fragility of the Holy"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2773.91,"endTime":2778.23,"body":"Spirit at work, you know us but"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2778.35,"endTime":2781.95,"body":"we can easily as you say,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2778.35,"endTime":2781.95,"body":"default and by by contact with"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2781.95,"endTime":2785.04,"body":"someone who doesn't share the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2781.95,"endTime":2785.04,"body":"same faith as us. I don't know"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2785.04,"endTime":2789.54,"body":"where that originally comes"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2785.04,"endTime":2789.54,"body":"from, but that anxiety that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2791.46,"endTime":2795.0,"body":"really, it's a very fragile"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2791.46,"endTime":2795.0,"body":"thing, if you carry it outside,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2795.39,"endTime":2799.95,"body":"you could drop it, you could"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2795.39,"endTime":2799.95,"body":"break it. It's unhealthy. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2800.28,"endTime":2804.24,"body":"The other thing I love about"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2800.28,"endTime":2804.24,"body":"that story is that you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2804.24,"endTime":2807.51,"body":"with Jesus borates The Pharisees"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2804.24,"endTime":2807.51,"body":"were having a long tassels on"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2807.51,"endTime":2810.78,"body":"their robes, you know, and when"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2807.51,"endTime":2810.78,"body":"I first read that, I thought,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2811.17,"endTime":2814.23,"body":"why does he care about the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2811.17,"endTime":2814.23,"body":"taser? Like that's, that's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2814.26,"endTime":2817.98,"body":"that's a kind of conceit or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2814.26,"endTime":2817.98,"body":"that's like your your You know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2818.01,"endTime":2821.64,"body":"paid to kind of frivolous or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2818.01,"endTime":2821.64,"body":"something. But actually, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2821.64,"endTime":2825.75,"body":"comes from the idea that people"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2821.64,"endTime":2825.75,"body":"saw that if you could touch the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2825.75,"endTime":2830.55,"body":"tassels of a garment of a reach"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2825.75,"endTime":2830.55,"body":"of a, of a religious leader,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2830.85,"endTime":2834.45,"body":"there was power. There was"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2830.85,"endTime":2834.45,"body":"healing in that, in that, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2834.45,"endTime":2837.0,"body":"is rubbish. And even the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2834.45,"endTime":2837.0,"body":"Pharisees would say, No, no,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2837.0,"endTime":2840.42,"body":"that's not true. But they would"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2837.0,"endTime":2840.42,"body":"still stitch long tassels on"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2840.42,"endTime":2843.81,"body":"their clothes to kind of tempt"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2840.42,"endTime":2843.81,"body":"people to like, check out our"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2843.81,"endTime":2847.8,"body":"holy, like, you know, maybe if"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2843.81,"endTime":2847.8,"body":"you touched me, you might get"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2847.8,"endTime":2852.12,"body":"here, right? But then if someone"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2847.8,"endTime":2852.12,"body":"said, Oh, if I touch that, no,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2852.12,"endTime":2856.02,"body":"no, no, there's no power in my"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2852.12,"endTime":2856.02,"body":"clothing. But they still would"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2856.02,"endTime":2859.59,"body":"wear these tassels. And then"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2856.02,"endTime":2859.59,"body":"Jesus is like, look at you. What"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2859.59,"endTime":2865.5,"body":"do you think? In that context,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2859.59,"endTime":2865.5,"body":"this woman believes the lie. If"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2865.5,"endTime":2868.59,"body":"you touch the gift, the garment"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2865.5,"endTime":2868.59,"body":"of a holy man, you'll be healed."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2868.59,"endTime":2872.76,"body":"So she's mistaken. She's wrong."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2868.59,"endTime":2872.76,"body":"There's no power and his"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2872.76,"endTime":2877.59,"body":"clothing. She touches him under"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2872.76,"endTime":2877.59,"body":"this misapprehension that she"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2877.59,"endTime":2882.24,"body":"could be healed. And as you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2877.59,"endTime":2882.24,"body":"said, what she is here like she"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2882.24,"endTime":2886.17,"body":"steals this miracle from Jesus."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2882.24,"endTime":2886.17,"body":"And I just think there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2886.17,"endTime":2889.2,"body":"something so beautiful about"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2886.17,"endTime":2889.2,"body":"that, even in your ignorance."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2889.65,"endTime":2893.82,"body":"Even in your kind of limited"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2889.65,"endTime":2893.82,"body":"perspective, God still can reach"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2893.82,"endTime":2897.54,"body":"out and talk to you. And then as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2893.82,"endTime":2897.54,"body":"you really well, beautifully put"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2897.54,"endTime":2900.87,"body":"it, it's like she's quivering"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2897.54,"endTime":2900.87,"body":"because she thinks she's now in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2900.87,"endTime":2905.58,"body":"trouble for stealing this book."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2900.87,"endTime":2905.58,"body":"But actually, Jesus brings into"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2905.58,"endTime":2912.42,"body":"the assembly of men, and says,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2905.58,"endTime":2912.42,"body":"it was your faith. Elevator as a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2912.78,"endTime":2917.49,"body":"heroic woman of faith, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2912.78,"endTime":2917.49,"body":"just, Oh, I get that I get"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2917.52,"endTime":2918.78,"body":"shivers where I retell."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2919.53,"endTime":2921.9,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2919.53,"endTime":2921.9,"body":"beautiful. It's beautiful. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2921.9,"endTime":2925.41,"body":"have a couple questions, the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2921.9,"endTime":2925.41,"body":"ends one is if you go back to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2925.41,"endTime":2928.26,"body":"your 21 year old self, what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2925.41,"endTime":2928.26,"body":"advice would you give?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2934.32,"endTime":2939.57,"body":"I would probably"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2934.32,"endTime":2939.57,"body":"tell myself to slow down and you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2939.57,"endTime":2943.08,"body":"don't, there's not? Well, now"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2939.57,"endTime":2943.08,"body":"that I know, I'm 60 years old."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2943.08,"endTime":2947.01,"body":"So I know you got another 40"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2943.08,"endTime":2947.01,"body":"years, at least left in you,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2947.04,"endTime":2953.79,"body":"Michael, I will say, you don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2947.04,"endTime":2953.79,"body":"have to pass the exam all in one"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2953.79,"endTime":2957.87,"body":"year, like learn these things,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2953.79,"endTime":2957.87,"body":"sit with them, soak into them."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2957.9,"endTime":2961.05,"body":"You don't have to write that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2957.9,"endTime":2961.05,"body":"book now or preach that sermon"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2961.05,"endTime":2965.52,"body":"now or when that that fight now,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2961.05,"endTime":2965.52,"body":"whatever it might be, I would"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2965.73,"endTime":2969.33,"body":"say immerse yourself much more"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2965.73,"endTime":2969.33,"body":"in your faith journey more"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2969.33,"endTime":2976.53,"body":"slowly to God will take you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2969.33,"endTime":2976.53,"body":"where he wants you to go. And,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2976.77,"endTime":2983.88,"body":"yeah, I think I would also say"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2976.77,"endTime":2983.88,"body":"quick question, which I always"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2983.88,"endTime":2988.86,"body":"say slow down, immerse myself"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2983.88,"endTime":2988.86,"body":"more in what I'm doing, I think,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2988.95,"endTime":2994.32,"body":"probably be kinder to people"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2988.95,"endTime":2994.32,"body":"that are on the same journey as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2994.32,"endTime":2999.6,"body":"you the same point of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2994.32,"endTime":2999.6,"body":"journey as you use it. I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2999.6,"endTime":3003.14,"body":"21. I was older than that. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":2999.6,"endTime":3003.14,"body":"our version, I wrote a book"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3003.14,"endTime":3008.81,"body":"called the shaping of things to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3003.14,"endTime":3008.81,"body":"come, which was pretty obnoxious"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3008.81,"endTime":3013.1,"body":"kind of book to be quite honest."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3008.81,"endTime":3013.1,"body":"I mean, I pretty much began"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3013.1,"endTime":3017.03,"body":"with, Hey, you're doing"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3013.1,"endTime":3017.03,"body":"everything wrong. But here is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3017.03,"endTime":3021.77,"body":"how you should be doing it. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3017.03,"endTime":3021.77,"body":"we did do a lot of people. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3023.57,"endTime":3026.15,"body":"we ended up doing another"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3023.57,"endTime":3026.15,"body":"edition of that too, which we"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3026.15,"endTime":3030.62,"body":"could have nearly aerated some"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3026.15,"endTime":3030.62,"body":"of that kind of pretty, pretty"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3030.65,"endTime":3035.51,"body":"aggressive kind of language. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3030.65,"endTime":3035.51,"body":"But yeah, I just discovered this"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3035.51,"endTime":3038.42,"body":"whole kind of visual way of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3035.51,"endTime":3038.42,"body":"thinking and it was just like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3038.93,"endTime":3041.75,"body":"Hey, everyone, you're doing"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3038.93,"endTime":3041.75,"body":"everything completely wrong."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3041.75,"endTime":3045.17,"body":"Everything is wrong. He's the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3041.75,"endTime":3045.17,"body":"why. And I think I'd say to a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3045.17,"endTime":3050.81,"body":"younger version of me, just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3045.17,"endTime":3050.81,"body":"present the goals just if he's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3050.81,"endTime":3054.68,"body":"gonna present what is that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3050.81,"endTime":3054.68,"body":"you've discovered? Invite people"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3054.98,"endTime":3060.53,"body":"in kinda way to kind of journey."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3054.98,"endTime":3060.53,"body":"Yeah, I said this once to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3060.53,"endTime":3063.08,"body":"someone else. And they said,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3060.53,"endTime":3063.08,"body":"Yeah, but maybe not as many"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3063.08,"endTime":3065.75,"body":"people would have taken as much"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3063.08,"endTime":3065.75,"body":"notice of it if they weren't as"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3065.81,"endTime":3070.25,"body":"as annoyed by it as they were."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3065.81,"endTime":3070.25,"body":"Yeah, I did have a guy come up"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3070.25,"endTime":3072.77,"body":"to me. He wasn't he gave me a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3070.25,"endTime":3072.77,"body":"copy of his book to sign it was"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3072.77,"endTime":3076.31,"body":"bad. It looked like a card. When"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3072.77,"endTime":3076.31,"body":"I read it. He said, I read like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3076.31,"endTime":3081.8,"body":"10 pages, I'd throw it against"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3076.31,"endTime":3081.8,"body":"the wall and people read it. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3082.04,"endTime":3085.82,"body":"for some reason, they couldn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3082.04,"endTime":3085.82,"body":"read it. But I think I had some"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3086.03,"endTime":3089.03,"body":"slower immersi some more ficando"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3089.18,"endTime":3092.12,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3089.18,"endTime":3092.12,"body":"beautiful. Thank you. Anything"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3092.12,"endTime":3094.85,"body":"you've been reading or watching"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3092.12,"endTime":3094.85,"body":"lately, you could recommend?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3097.579,"endTime":3099.079,"body":"Well, I'm writing"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3097.579,"endTime":3099.079,"body":"a book on the history of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3099.079,"endTime":3101.989,"body":"Christian mission. So I've been"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3099.079,"endTime":3101.989,"body":"reading a lot of stuff about"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3102.019,"endTime":3109.279,"body":"history. So yeah, I think we had"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3102.019,"endTime":3109.279,"body":"mentioned this earlier in our"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3109.279,"endTime":3115.309,"body":"conversation, but not only do we"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3109.279,"endTime":3115.309,"body":"look through Western eyes, not"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3115.309,"endTime":3118.519,"body":"Middle Eastern eyes to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3115.309,"endTime":3118.519,"body":"understand the script To us, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3118.519,"endTime":3122.839,"body":"also think about mission through"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3118.519,"endTime":3122.839,"body":"very limited historical eyes."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3122.839,"endTime":3127.069,"body":"You know, we think about mission"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3122.839,"endTime":3127.069,"body":"in America over the last 3040"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3127.069,"endTime":3130.369,"body":"years, like, that's the way it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3127.069,"endTime":3130.369,"body":"always been right? Or we jump"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3130.369,"endTime":3133.609,"body":"way back to the early church"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3130.369,"endTime":3133.609,"body":"like so we think of Jerusalem"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3133.609,"endTime":3139.549,"body":"church. You know, Calvinists"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3133.609,"endTime":3139.549,"body":"love Geneva. And then there's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3139.549,"endTime":3142.699,"body":"bit of Jonathan Edwards, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3139.549,"endTime":3142.699,"body":"some great awakening stuff,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3142.759,"endTime":3149.539,"body":"Billy Graham, and now this. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3142.759,"endTime":3149.539,"body":"mean, everyone I just mentioned"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3149.539,"endTime":3152.629,"body":"that was male for a start by"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3149.539,"endTime":3152.629,"body":"having all these extraordinary"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3152.659,"endTime":3157.579,"body":"women doing remarkable mission"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3152.659,"endTime":3157.579,"body":"around the world. But also, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3157.579,"endTime":3160.909,"body":"working my working title with"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3157.579,"endTime":3160.909,"body":"this book is mission is the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3160.909,"endTime":3165.409,"body":"shape of water. And the idea"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3160.909,"endTime":3165.409,"body":"that water doesn't lose its"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3165.409,"endTime":3170.299,"body":"inherent qualities, it's h2o,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3165.409,"endTime":3170.299,"body":"but is shaped differently"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3170.299,"endTime":3175.279,"body":"depending on what container has"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3170.299,"endTime":3175.279,"body":"placed. And another is a movie"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3175.279,"endTime":3179.449,"body":"called the shape of water, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3175.279,"endTime":3179.449,"body":"was about it's about love and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3179.449,"endTime":3182.269,"body":"sexuality in the light. But I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3179.449,"endTime":3182.269,"body":"think you can also say this"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3182.269,"endTime":3186.079,"body":"about mission, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3182.269,"endTime":3186.079,"body":"mission will always be mission,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3186.079,"endTime":3188.779,"body":"it's about allowing people to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3186.079,"endTime":3188.779,"body":"universal right of God through"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3188.779,"endTime":3192.109,"body":"Christ. But when you pour it"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3188.779,"endTime":3192.109,"body":"into the container of engaging"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3192.109,"endTime":3196.579,"body":"with Syrian refugees, it's going"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3192.109,"endTime":3196.579,"body":"to be shaped differently. When"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3196.579,"endTime":3201.169,"body":"you were to engage in with, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3196.579,"endTime":3201.169,"body":"know, business people in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3201.169,"endTime":3203.779,"body":"Southern California, it's going"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3201.169,"endTime":3203.779,"body":"to be shaped differently when"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3204.319,"endTime":3208.399,"body":"you're trying to do mission on"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3204.319,"endTime":3208.399,"body":"the border between Poland and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3208.399,"endTime":3211.939,"body":"Ukraine and dealing with"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3208.399,"endTime":3211.939,"body":"refugees from traumatized"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3211.939,"endTime":3214.579,"body":"refugees from our war zone, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3211.939,"endTime":3214.579,"body":"going to look different, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3214.579,"endTime":3216.739,"body":"gonna look different in Africa,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3214.579,"endTime":3216.739,"body":"and it's gonna look different"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3216.739,"endTime":3220.069,"body":"throughout different periods of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3216.739,"endTime":3220.069,"body":"history. So that's a lot of what"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3220.069,"endTime":3224.869,"body":"I've been reading. lately. It's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3220.069,"endTime":3224.869,"body":"like, just broaden our horizons"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3224.869,"endTime":3229.339,"body":"so that we can actually say, God"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3224.869,"endTime":3229.339,"body":"has been using people in all of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3229.339,"endTime":3233.629,"body":"these ways, not just the few"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3229.339,"endTime":3233.629,"body":"that we haven't had one."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3234.079,"endTime":3236.869,"body":"Are there any"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3234.079,"endTime":3236.869,"body":"particular missionaries that in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3236.869,"endTime":3240.229,"body":"the in the past that have just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3236.869,"endTime":3240.229,"body":"fascinated you?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3241.699,"endTime":3245.449,"body":"Oh, gosh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3241.699,"endTime":3245.449,"body":"absolutely. I mean, Nicholas,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3245.479,"endTime":3248.959,"body":"Nicolas von Zinzendorf, who was"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3245.479,"endTime":3248.959,"body":"the Canada, not the founder, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3248.959,"endTime":3254.419,"body":"the kind of the patron, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3248.959,"endTime":3254.419,"body":"suppose, of the, of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3254.96,"endTime":3256.07,"body":"Moravian"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3254.96,"endTime":3256.07,"body":"movement,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3256.13,"endTime":3258.35,"body":"probably probably"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3256.13,"endTime":3258.35,"body":"the beginning of the modern"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3258.35,"endTime":3261.26,"body":"nations movement, like that just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3258.35,"endTime":3261.26,"body":"like to give credit to William"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3261.26,"endTime":3265.88,"body":"Carey, but the Moravians were,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3261.26,"endTime":3265.88,"body":"like, you know, a step ahead of"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3266.12,"endTime":3269.66,"body":"the rest of us and did"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3266.12,"endTime":3269.66,"body":"remarkable things. But, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3269.66,"endTime":3274.31,"body":"know, I think Francis Xavier, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3269.66,"endTime":3274.31,"body":"mean, you know, processing or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3274.31,"endTime":3277.28,"body":"any of that from us as Xavier,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3274.31,"endTime":3277.28,"body":"but I mean, that guy, like, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3277.28,"endTime":3282.41,"body":"know, he planted churches or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3277.28,"endTime":3282.41,"body":"Christian missions in India,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3282.44,"endTime":3288.44,"body":"Indonesia, China, Japan, me that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3282.44,"endTime":3288.44,"body":"was like us saying, Will Joshua,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3288.44,"endTime":3294.53,"body":"historic mission work in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3288.44,"endTime":3294.53,"body":"Jupiter, Mars? You know, this is"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3294.56,"endTime":3299.66,"body":"unbelievable. Back in the 1500s,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3294.56,"endTime":3299.66,"body":"as this guy was doing this, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3299.66,"endTime":3302.51,"body":"know, he was a Jesuit. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3299.66,"endTime":3302.51,"body":"know, Jesuits did some pretty"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3302.51,"endTime":3307.25,"body":"bad stuff in mission, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3302.51,"endTime":3307.25,"body":"subsequently, but I found him to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3307.25,"endTime":3311.72,"body":"be a fascinating character, Mary"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3307.25,"endTime":3311.72,"body":"Slessor. His work among"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3312.5,"endTime":3316.88,"body":"Nigerians was remarkable. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3312.5,"endTime":3316.88,"body":"think. I've also come across"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3316.88,"endTime":3322.04,"body":"some indigenous church,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3316.88,"endTime":3322.04,"body":"apostles, I suppose in southern"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3322.04,"endTime":3325.61,"body":"Africa, people who've just"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3322.04,"endTime":3325.61,"body":"almost without any contact with"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3325.61,"endTime":3329.78,"body":"missionaries, came to faith and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3325.61,"endTime":3329.78,"body":"came to a set of beliefs that"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3329.78,"endTime":3334.19,"body":"mirrored basic Christian"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3329.78,"endTime":3334.19,"body":"theology, and let whole"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3334.19,"endTime":3338.3,"body":"movements of people around"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3334.19,"endTime":3338.3,"body":"places, let's say, the Southern"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3338.3,"endTime":3345.17,"body":"African on the shows of people"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3338.3,"endTime":3345.17,"body":"just finished writing a section"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3345.17,"endTime":3347.36,"body":"of the story about these two"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3345.17,"endTime":3347.36,"body":"Baptist missionaries in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3347.36,"endTime":3352.91,"body":"Congo. He was given a camera"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3347.36,"endTime":3352.91,"body":"like way back in the early early"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3352.91,"endTime":3358.64,"body":"1900s. When cameras were like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3352.91,"endTime":3358.64,"body":"no ordinary people had them. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3358.64,"endTime":3361.28,"body":"they said, I'll take some"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3358.64,"endTime":3361.28,"body":"photos, who knows people might"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3361.28,"endTime":3363.53,"body":"find it interesting to see what"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3361.28,"endTime":3363.53,"body":"life is like and we could"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3363.56,"endTime":3368.84,"body":"imagine a missionary now without"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3363.56,"endTime":3368.84,"body":"a camera, but at that time,"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3368.84,"endTime":3372.02,"body":"there was a genocide going on in"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3368.84,"endTime":3372.02,"body":"the in the jungles of the coca"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3372.02,"endTime":3377.09,"body":"by the Belgian colonizers. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3372.02,"endTime":3377.09,"body":"she ended up photographing and"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3377.09,"endTime":3383.18,"body":"recording these these horrific"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3377.09,"endTime":3383.18,"body":"murders, now published in the UK"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3383.18,"endTime":3386.99,"body":"that set off a scandal which"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3383.18,"endTime":3386.99,"body":"eventually led to the the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3386.99,"endTime":3390.35,"body":"Belgians having to leave the"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3386.99,"endTime":3390.35,"body":"Congo. I mean, just stories like"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3390.35,"endTime":3396.05,"body":"that, that should be should we"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3390.35,"endTime":3396.05,"body":"work with a camera, a real story"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3396.05,"endTime":3399.23,"body":"about a missionary go carried"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3396.05,"endTime":3399.23,"body":"out a full printing press"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3399.23,"endTime":3401.87,"body":"through the jungle to get to"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3399.23,"endTime":3401.87,"body":"Uganda, so you could print"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3401.87,"endTime":3408.89,"body":"Bibles. You know, everyone's"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3401.87,"endTime":3408.89,"body":"heard about, about Livingston"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3408.89,"endTime":3414.68,"body":"and Carrie Hudson Taylor."},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3408.89,"endTime":3414.68,"body":"They're great stories too. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3414.71,"endTime":3417.74,"body":"there are so many remarkable"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3414.71,"endTime":3417.74,"body":"stories of ordinary people. or"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3417.98,"endTime":3421.97,"body":"just willing to let mission be"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3417.98,"endTime":3421.97,"body":"shaped by the context in which"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3421.97,"endTime":3423.08,"body":"they found themselves."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3423.71,"endTime":3426.02,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3423.71,"endTime":3426.02,"body":"I'm really excited to read that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3426.05,"endTime":3428.27,"body":"once. When are you going to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3426.05,"endTime":3428.27,"body":"finish that?"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3428.84,"endTime":3430.88,"body":"Do you think I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3428.84,"endTime":3430.88,"body":"going to finish it soon, but who"},{"speaker":"Michael Frost","startTime":3430.88,"endTime":3432.08,"body":"knows when it's gonna come out?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3433.099,"endTime":3436.069,"body":"That'd be good."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3433.099,"endTime":3436.069,"body":"Well, yeah, Mike, it was such a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3436.129,"endTime":3439.879,"body":"pleasure to talk to you today."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3436.129,"endTime":3439.879,"body":"And I really, really enjoyed it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3439.879,"endTime":3443.329,"body":"and walking through what does it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3439.879,"endTime":3443.329,"body":"actually look like to start to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3443.329,"endTime":3447.529,"body":"become more like Jesus and more"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3443.329,"endTime":3447.529,"body":"like Jesus in the church and to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3447.529,"endTime":3453.559,"body":"go out? I really enjoy. Open the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3447.529,"endTime":3453.559,"body":"pen. Exactly. The sheep in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3453.559,"endTime":3458.899,"body":"wilds, and so yeah, so thank you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3453.559,"endTime":3458.899,"body":"so much. Thanks, Josh."}]}