Ep. 58 David Broodryk - Faith and Obedience to God that Catalyzes Movement

In this episode, David Broodryk shares his story and what it takes to catalyze movement and to have faith that is obedient to God despite the consequences.

David has been pioneering God Movements and mentoring leaders on every continent for over 30 years.

The result has been thousands of new churches and disciples that bring life-giving transformation to their communities.

He currently serves as the Strategic Director for Accelerate Global, Director of Southern Africa and Global Urban Ministry for New Generations and Executive Director of Twofoureight in South Africa.

David is married to Michelle and they have two adult children. He is a bad golfer, average photographer and self-confessed coffee addict.  David’s primary role is coaching leaders to launch, lead and multiply God Movements globally.

David's Recommendation:
The Book of Acts

This episode was sponsored by:
All Nations Kansas City
The mX Platform

Connect with Joshua: jjohnson@allnations.us

Go to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.

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Transcript

Joshua Johnson: 0:59

Hello, and welcome to the shifting culture podcast in which we have conversations about the culture we create, and the impact we can make. I'm your host, Joshua Johnson. Go to shifting culture podcast.com To interact or donate. If you're enjoying the show, it would help us a lot to reach new people. If you'd leave a rating or review on your podcast app, and spread the word to your friends and network. Previous guests on the show have included Roy Moran, Steve Addison and Pam Arland. You could go back, you'd listen to those episodes, and many more. But today's guest is David Broderick. David has been pioneering God movements and mentoring leaders on every continent for over 30 years. He currently serves as the strategic director for accelerate Global Director of southern Africa and global Urban Ministry for new generations. And executive director of two for eight in South Africa. We have a fantastic conversation on what it takes to catalyze movement and have faith that is obedient to God despite the consequences. Enjoy the conversation. This episode is brought to you by all nations Kansas City. Have you ever felt holy discontent that 1/3 of the world doesn't know Jesus that the church has we know it won't reach all peoples on earth? And that is hard to find ways to use your gifts for the kingdom of God? Well, you're not alone. We feel it too. With 30 years of experience igniting movements to Jesus around the world committed to following the lead of the Holy Spirit. All nations has gifted trainers and coaches with time in the trenches. Do you want to make disciples in hard places? Do you want to join a like minded community? Are you tired of compromising for the status quo, then join us on the leading edge go to all nations.us. To learn more. This podcast is done in association with the MX platform and 100 m publishing. The MX platform is a space for any disciple to be resourced, and equipped to release movement within their context. So whether you lead your family, a small group of micro church, or you're a planter or pastor, you can find tools, resources and training to help release potential within yourself. And context. 100 m publishing publishes books by authors and thought leaders with new insight about movement, DNA, discipleship, leadership and movement dynamics. To learn more about these books, and to check out the resources and training available, visit the m x platform.com. A David, welcome. Thanks for coming to the podcast. It's a pleasure to have you.

David Broodryk: 3:37

Thank you, Joshua, so great to be with you. Yeah.

Joshua Johnson: 3:40

When do you? What was the the impetus for you to really move into movement dynamics and movement thinking when it comes to disciple making in church?

David Broodryk: 3:54

Yeah, well, I've been in ministry sort of over 30 years, and really started in traditional church leadership, pastoral work, and traditional missions work. And then church planting. Yeah. And through that journey, one of the things that really stood out to me was when we began to do small group work, and these groups were beginning to multiply, in fact, you know, in the first year, we went from zero to 100, small groups, and they were flying over a large radius. And as one of the church leaders, and certainly the other church leaders were in a real quandary about this, because how do you get all these people to come to church? And so we were doing this mission work. And I was also pastoring, a church. And I was beginning to see the tension that was developing between the two philosophies almost. And we had no idea what movement was. But we were seeing it, we were witnessing it. And we had no methods. We had no tactics, we just were just following what God was telling us to do. And it was exploding. And so the only thing I knew to do at that stage was, well, you got to plant churches, right? They can't come to church, you got to plant churches, and by that I mean traditional churches. And so I followed the traditional route. And we built a big track, we called it the gospel track. And the side of the track, fell down became a stage and we pulled a 16 kilowatt generator and we would go from village to village where these groups are expanding and exploding. And we would do crusades, traditional crusades, and and then we would try and plan traditional churches. And I did this for a while and soon began to realize that the what I was desiring to see in the book of Acts is not what I was seeing in real life. Yeah. And, and so much of this was dependent on my energy, and I was burning out. And my budget and it wasn't very big. And my ability to, you know, be the man of God. And, you know, by all measures, traditional measures, we were doing well, but I was beginning to yearn for the multiplication. And really, I was beginning to yearn for it, we first saw with a multiplication of the small groups. And so I went into this period of tension. And this was this was many years ago, so movements weren't even, you know, on the radar. The internet was just emerging. And at that stage, there were these little rebel groups talking about house churches, you know, and several churches and, and you were almost, you know, kind of ostracized from your pastoral fellowship, if you did talk about any of these liberal things that were emerging. And to be honest, many of them were pretty, they were kind of disenfranchise people that were angry, you know, clubs of people. And so I just, I just knew from personal experience, not not from this stuff that was emerging, but personal experience, what we had seen was the gospel move naturally, organically, virally, whatever word you want to use, but from person to person through ordinary people. And I was yearning for that. And that was probably my first journey, my first foray into into movement thinking it took a long time before we use the word movement. Yeah. But I was yearning for that first experience.

Joshua Johnson: 7:42

So as you you realize that this is what you're yearning for you, you were wanting to see the book of Acts happen. And he wanted to go back into that movement, as you were saying, Okay, I'm on the man of God, I'm burning out, I have all of these crusades, our budget is, is running out. What happened to get you to a place of all right, we have to shift a little bit and start to work towards these small group dynamics and movement in the future and not just lay on your on what happened in the past?

David Broodryk: 8:22

Well, you know, I wish I could tell you a story of this as before and then encounter and this is after. But the reality is, I got born again many times. And I have these revelations and insights into the kingdom over and over and over. And so we actually established for traditional churches like that. And then the fifth one was on its way in, I was burnt out and, and so I moved on from there, and I moved to a new city, which is in South Africa, halfway between two big cities, Johannesburg and Pretoria, an area called Midrand. And when we moved there, there were cows and sheep, and no people. It was just in between the cities. But soon after we moved there, hundreds of 1000s of people just flop there and began to develop and build. And I went, my wife and I moved, there was nothing, no money, no resources, nothing. And we just dreamed of something new and something different. It was hard. Really, it was hard. And after seven years of pursuing this and chasing this, we had ended up with another traditional judgment. Yeah. And we were in a school hall and you've got 100 people, and you know how traditional church planning goes, You're the Usher and the musician and the preacher and the counselor, and you're the everything. And so, you know, I was back into that mode. And, you know, I was I was again, I was just burning up. And I was asking myself the big question, if I keep doing this for 30 years, what will be the impact? And so the real turning point came the one morning or Sunday morning when I woke up, I turned to my wife in bed, and I said Something's very wrong. And we live in South Africa, where there's a lot of kind of home invasion. And so she jumped up and said, What's wrong? What's wrong? Is there someone in the house what's going on? And I said, No, something's wrong. It's wrong in here. And she said, what's wrong? And I said, I don't want to go to church and I'm the pastor. And so something is horribly wrong. And it's not just about this morning, it's just something is a disconnect for me now. Anyway, I went to church that Sunday and I began to preach a sermon. And I don't know what I said, I'm sure it was a good sermon. But while I was talking, my mind drifted up into the sky, and I looked down on my city. And I asked a question. I hadn't really asked until that point, it was a question of vision. At that stage, the two cities had kind of merged and they were 10 million people around me. And I asked, what would it take to reach or significant impact the lives of 10 million people. And I realized the path I was on, which was, again, a traditional church planting Road, although there was some economic sustainability in it, right, people were talking and giving and you know, and although there was some significance in it, people look to me as the leader, and you know, these poor kind of following me, although these things were in place, and although we were beginning to look for land, and we were going to build, you know, building and all that route, I was deeply dissatisfied, because that entire route would not get me to where I believe on wanted us to be, which was to impact studies. Yeah. And I knew that if I spent 3040 years on that journey, I you know, if I was wildly successful, maybe I could build a church of 30,000 people. But that's not 10 million. Today, it's 15 million, you know, the population growth, the the the explosion of cities, just waste have lost my ability to build buildings and gather people in traditional churches. And so I was deeply dissatisfied. And I went on holiday, the next day, my wife, and I just booked leave, and we drove. And we went to the coast about eight hours from where we were. And I remember I was in, I was in a dark place. I stopped and I got out the cars out, say to my wife, take the kids take the bags, put them in the place where we're going to stay, I'm going and I don't think I closed the door car door, I just walked into the street. And they began to walk the streets of this little town. And I was I was complaining to God, I was telling him how awful his calling was. And what a terrible mistake he'd made in calling me. And really just, you know, having a good complaint session. I don't know if you've ever tried arguing with God, but you usually lose. And I went down one street, Second Street. And during the Third Street, I walked down, halfway through, I heard a voice and it was God speak to me directly. And he said, You're not doing what I told you to do. And I stop, and I just went cold. Because I knew what he was saying he had pulled us into this, we still didn't have the word movement. But he didn't hold us to this thing that looked like what we call movement today. But I couldn't find anyone who was doing it. And I couldn't see any examples. And it seemed it crazy to me. And anybody who had spoken some of this language didn't seem to be working. And so I had backed off from it. And I had gone back into traditional church planting and there's nothing wrong with it. I mean, we we missed a firm that the issue here wasn't traditional church versus movement, the issue was responding to the call of God versus settling for something less or something else. Yeah. And I had settled for something else. And so we went back and we announced to the church, we were going to go through some serious transition. And within a year, we had we had left that church plant. And we were fully committed to build what we still didn't understand as movements but was fully committed to this.

Joshua Johnson: 14:40

Wow. I mean, so what what would you say to people when they're they're thinking, okay, maybe I want to really follow the call of God in my life and go after it. I think I mean, you had you had vision. You know, the gods as you were looking over your congregation giving a sermon, you had vision of what it actually looks like to reach a city how do we reach 10 million? You had disturbance inside of you like there was there was something that happened, that you know, that you weren't settled. And then you had a lot of different metanoia moments those paradigm shifts those mind changes those repentance moments to back to God. What would you say to people as they're, they're trying to pursue what God has the fullness of what God has for them, you know, as you look back on on how you really got there, what's, what's that journey for others?

David Broodryk: 15:40

I mean, it's difficult to speak generally because everyone's on their own journey. Mm. But I would say that, you know, when I later on, got to know David Watson, and he went into a mentoring relationship with me, one of the things that he affirmed that I had sort of learned through my journey is faith is obedience to God regardless of the consequences. And I had a measure of faith that was willing to obey until I hit the consequences, and the consequences are severe for a young family. You know, no, no economic opportunities. You know, significance was huge. In fact, after we made the decision, we went into another year of just darkness, because we had placed so much significance in being the leaders of this church and, and all of a sudden, we're given an up, nobody was looking to lead anymore. So nobody cared if I woke up in the morning, and nobody cared what I was doing, because I wasn't, you know, the pastor. And so we had placed significance in the wrong places, and we made choices out of economic need, rather than obedience. And so we had to lay all that down. And so I would say that faith is obedience to God, regardless of the consequence. And that's pretty radical. And I think today, as I've, you know, been at this now, for many years, I haven't seen a movement, I have not seen a movement that was not birthed out of someone who took extreme sacrifices to see happen, somehow, and God builds on the sacrifices of his people. And so there is extreme sacrifice to see him, but we can't do it out of an arm CI, we can't do it, sitting at home, you know, drinking Budweiser and shouting at the television, like a lot of armchair sports. And, you know, he should have done this. And he should have done that. And I know better. That's not a movement builder, you got to get out in the field, and there's pain involved. There's pain involved in the training process, pain involved in the many, many, many years that it takes to get to that point where you're playing on a team that others all, you know, recognizing. And it's a journey, it really is a journey, and that journey is a journey of faith and obedience.

Joshua Johnson: 18:17

Yeah. Do you see as as people catalyze movements that began with radical obedience, and that faith to to really sacrifice? Have you seen teams of people having that sacrifice to move forward to catalyze movement? What's the dynamic between the the one that's really leading the charge, and then maybe a team dynamic trying to go in with radical obedience?

David Broodryk: 18:47

You know, obviously, the main person that God uses to pioneer the work carries the biggest price, always. But we have, again, we haven't seen movements birth unless this team and today we work in urban contexts, mostly. And this is especially true in urban individualistic culture. That is not collectivist that is not, you know, communal, that's individualistic. Yeah, I see a lot of people talk movement. And then when you look around them, you don't see team. When you look behind them, you don't see new leaders. You see an individual, and it's just a dream. It's not a vision. It's something that will never happen because they're trying to do it in isolation. Yeah. And the enemy I've seen over the years, probably the bridge greatest target for the enemy is the is the primary team. That's what he'll go after. And so I've seen movements emerge, and the enemy rips that primary team to pieces and the entire movements gone. And so we will spend a lot of time today, strengthening the primary leader strengthening the team and helping them to function as healthy teams, as well as build movements. And then the third leg is really economic sustainability. Yeah. And so if you're building for movement for long term, you've got to be building healthy leaders, healthy teams around those leaders. And you've got to help them build healthy strong movements, and you've got to help them with economic sustainability.

Joshua Johnson: 20:26

Yeah, well, let's let's start there. Let's start with that healthy teams and and leaders. What is that? What's the rhythm that people could get into to sustain health? That won't won't burn people out and you know, get them in? To a place where it's unsustainable for the long term.

David Broodryk: 20:49

Well, I mean, the first rhythm that God gives us very clearly is a Sabbath rhythm. You know, every seven days, you need rest. And I was in the beginning, very unhealthy, because I was working, you know, eight days out of the week. And, you know, I was doing, I was doing the work of two people. And I was running, running, running, and I could justify it I always justified. And it was quite a profound thing, when eventually the Lord convicted me on that and said, you know that this is also a lack of faith. In source, it's also believing that my own energy and my own wisdom, and all these things that I put in will create movement. Yeah, it takes faith to rest. Because in that, we know that God is the author of this, and God is the finisher of this. Yeah. So it took me took me several years to get to the point where I at least established a healthy rhythm of, you know, working, not working seven days a week. And so the the first things that you want to do with a team is develop those rhythms of work and replenishment. And they're absolutely critical, absolutely important. And then from that, we work with teams to begin to build several healthy rhythms, which is daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually. And so, you know, if I look at our team, we have rhythms on each one of those, and we've built them over years. And so you know, several days a week, we will have stand up meetings, we stand up meeting is just short and quick, and you don't sit down and start talking, you just stand and talk, and it lasts 10 or 15 minutes, but we're catching up with each other. And we're connecting with each other. We have two weekly meetings, and one is really based on the team themselves, the individuals themselves, we, we actually function as a church, when we're a team. And we care for each other, we love each other, we encourage each other towards love and good deeds. And we make sure that everybody on the team is an acting practitioner, not just a person who's spouting full theories for others. And so, you know, that that's one of the team meetings. And then the other team meeting, what we call a general business meeting. So we spent, you know, I think it's about an hour and a half a week, and we will come together, and we will talk about the business, that we're involved in movement building. And then we have, you know, quarterly rhythms where we get together for an entire week, every three months, we go away some way, as a team, and we build relationships, we catch up on things. Today, we've taken those rhythms online, because our core team is dispersed. Yeah, we're not even in the same city. And so, you know, a zoom like this, in a dispersed way, creates all kinds of misunderstandings and conflict. Because we can't read body language, we can't read intent, we don't really know what people mean when they speak, on a flat screen. And so every three months or so we have to work through that to avoid the bigger conflict that could come from those misunderstandings. And then, and then annually, we build rhythm. So when we work with a team, those are the rhythms that we project onto them, we basically help their team to by asking the questions, what are the healthy rhythms that will work for your team, and we help them develop those rhythms. But, but what is cool is that healthy rhythms are incredibly important for a team. And it begins with a rhythm of rest and replenishment.

Joshua Johnson: 24:37

Yeah. And that's good. I mean, it's the difference between a short term mentality of trying to get things like let's do a sprint, so that we can get things established and moving and going. And then the long term, we're in it for the long haul. This is not just a little short term gig that we have. You know, have you seen like, long term mentality? What does that look like for for teams.

David Broodryk: 25:05

If you're not in it for at least 10 years, you won't see movement. You might run an evangelism program, but you weren't seeing movement is where you give enough time for the initial people that have come to Christ to grow and mature and replicate and become leaders that are inside leaders to replicate further for healthy churches to emerge. If you're not in this for the long term, you're not going to see movement. All movements follow a hockey stick pattern. There's very little growth in the beginning and then the growth starts happening. That doesn't take a week. It doesn't take a year. It doesn't take three yours, it takes longer. And so there's definitely a long period. And I'm not going to determine what that length of time is. But there's a long period of flat investment where you're investing in people and investing in groups and investing in leaders. And you're not seeing that that exponential multiplication happen. And then suddenly, you see this growth curve, and you see this exponential multiplication. And everybody comes along and goes, What's the secret that happened there where you started to see movement happen? Well, the secret is, the 10 years of investment before that, that's the secret. And nobody wants to hear that they're looking for this little key here that made it happen. But the key is the long investment. And that is how movements work. If you if you want to be involved in movements, then you've got to stop the crusade mentality. crusades and short term programs, see quick results. And then those results crash. And I did that at one stage with admissions in schools. And we would go to rural African schools, and we would say, who wants to follow Jesus? Well, if there were 1500, kids in the school in 1200, would put their hands up. I don't know how many of them knew what they were saying. But they put their hands up. And so you'd go around doing these responses. And you it's very easy in some contexts, to get quick results. It really is. Whether it's evangelism, whether it's groups, whether it's new disciples very easy to get, it's not so easy to get to second generation, third generation, leadership development, locally led, multiplying, forming healthy churches, that's movement, and that takes time to build.

Joshua Johnson: 27:36

And, and so as you're looking at the second, third generation leaders coming up, what's that investment into others to help grow leaders of the movement?

David Broodryk: 27:53

We actually talk about multiplying three structures. And this has really helped us that this language has helped us over the years. And in the early days, we used to talk about church and multiplying churches. And that just became really confusing, especially in urban environments, because what is church? Yeah, and and Scripture doesn't really draw a circle around any structure and call it call it church. It talks about church, I usually say it talks about church as the people of God on mission to establish the Kingdom of God. Yeah. But it doesn't really say a church has 15 people or a church or 10,000 people or you know, this is doesn't do that. And so it gives us very little guidance around structure sometimes. And that's why so many denominations have formed so many different expressions of structure. And they all can say this is biblical, because it kind of is because when you get down to actual church structure, it's a biblical, there isn't much defined. And so it gives you freedom. And so we want to give that same freedom. And so we talk about three structures that we see generally emerge in movements, and particularly urban movements, where we're focused. Now the first is groups, it's the most basic structure of movement is where two or three, or four, or five, or six, or maybe up to 15, or 20, get together as a group, and disciples begin making disciples. It's the most basic structure of movement. And those have to multiply, disciples have to multiply and groups have to multiply. The second structure that we talked about as gatherings, and usually what happens, especially in urban settings, as several groups will say, hey, we want to gather and you can fight it, but you're gonna lose the fight. And the reason you're gonna lose the fight is because community is planted deep in the heart of man. And when people come to Christ, they begin to seek out others like us. And two, or three or four is not enough for me to feel significantly connected to community, it's not enough. Because if I go to friends, I may have to friends doesn't mean my wife connects with their wives, doesn't mean my kids connect to their kids. And so I intuitively know that I need a larger community to connect to so people started looking for that larger expression of community. We call that gathering and the third structure that begins to emerge as a team. We firmly believe that all healthy leadership is team based leadership. Yeah. And so we talk about teams, we talk about groups, we talk about gatherings. Now, these could have different names in different places. Doesn't really matter. But all of it really is expression of church. And so when teams groups and gatherings begin to multiply, we begin to seem. So those those healthy structures are extremely important. And sometimes we think that movements are just disciples making disciples. Yeah. But that's an individualistic culture being expressed, if not that, it's really the community of God's people being multiplied. And we call that teams groups gatherings. So as teams begin to multiply, that's how we multiply healthy leadership teams for us a leadership development environments. And so they're not just where the most experienced leaders sit in a circle and tell everyone else what to do. They are inclusive environments that that raise up new emerging and potential leaders to lead in the movement. And so those teams are very, very, very important for movements to happen.

Joshua Johnson: 31:45

And so as you see these these movements emerge, and you see these, these teams and these groups, and these gatherings start to multiply within urban setting. You know, and Proverbs, one of the things that that really gets me excited is when the righteous prosper, the city rejoices. And so you're looking at, you know, deep Shalom, and peace and flourishing in a city. So, so as movement emerges, how does the city rejoice and flourish and the kingdom of God be established in that place?

David Broodryk: 32:24

Well, the basic building block of any movement is, is the individual disciple. And so how they live in the spaces where they live, where they work, where they're playing with their cell phone line is very, very critical. Yeah. And so often, we think that movements are built around our holy spaces, you know, and holy spaces can be, you know, when we think about Holy spaces, we think about, you know, historic church buildings that are high with glass, wind, stained glass windows, and we go in, and we're quiet, and we're hashing. That's a holy space right now. But our modern church buildings are also heard the spaces there may be noisy, and they may have drums, and they may have, you know, electric guitars, but there are holy spaces in the sense that when we enter them, we think that that is almost a different set of rules here, this is a holy place. Yeah. When I was pastoring, a church, that's the greatest miracle happens on a Sunday morning, when a husband and wife fight all the way to church, they get out the car, and suddenly they're, you know, they're not fighting anymore. They walk into church, and everything is fine, because they're in this holy space, the warfare to the quiet and the fight starts, and when they drive away. And so we have these holy spaces that we create these holy spaces can be small groups that can be home groups, they can be places where we behave by a different set of rules. We're not real. We're fake. We put on a mask. And we pretend these holy spaces are almost where we think movement takes place. But they're not. These are the equipping places for saints to live out the kingdom, where they live, where they work, where they're playing with their surf online. And so that's where real transformation happens. When first and foremost, the individual disciple lives, the kingdom in those spaces. And that comes in a multitude of ways. And it comes when we build Well, when we gather, then we live well, when we scattered. And I give an example, I just in my own city, have been building relationships with disciples, because we believe that every single person needs to be doing it, as well as, as well as helping others do it. And so that's challenging for me as a primary leader, because I've got so much on my plate. And it's deeply challenging to wake up in the morning and say, Where am I going to make disciples? And who am I going to sit with and who am I going to help grow in Christ? Yeah, and sometimes, I mean, even the last two weeks, my team is to say to me, you need to stop doing that and you need to get, you know, start doing this other stuff. And I said, the day I stopped making disciples is the day you need to stop following but it's not easy. It's really easy on our on our timetables, on our calendars, but I'm committed to it. And so one of the places that I work is coffee shops. I just I just find I seem to be able to concentrate well when there's noise around me, white noise around me. And so I go and sit in coffee shops and I my wife And I have moved to a new area. But last year, we've been in Durban, South Africa. And we began to pray and say, God, where do you want us to make disciples? And what he clearly said to us was young adults, you know, go after young adults? Well, I initially thought, Well, how am I gonna go after young adults? I mean, I'm 50 something, they're 20 something. Why should they listen to me? And you know, all the thoughts go through your mind, maybe I should dress like them, maybe I should learn to speak their language. Maybe I should act like them. But in reality, what they're looking for as fathers and mothers, they're looking for me. And so in our brought all this together, God said, make disciples with young adults. And that is what we train teams find the affinity that God is calling you to focus on that in the city. Secondly, where do you live workplace surf online? Well, I sit in coffee shops. So this is where our work, and sometimes you know, surf online. So I've got my space, and I've got my affinity. And so well, it's a great fit. Because who do you find in coffee shops, you find waiters and waitresses, who are young adults, who are in between, they may be studying at university trying to earn a living. And there one day, they're going to be lawyers and doctors and the leaders of the future. But right now they're working in the coffee shop. And so I began to engage the waiters and waitresses very intentionally. And one young girl was about 22 years old, I began to engage her and really work with her and talk with her, an incredible young lady with incredible potential. And really hard working and, and I was talking to her this week, and she stopped. And she's black, African and white, African us black African. And she looked at me and she literally said to me, why are you not racist? So why would you ask me that question? And she said, everybody like you that I've ever spoken to has been racist. And, and she began to describe the impact that me talking to her was having on her life, just crossing that boundary, that transformation happens at that most basic level. Yeah. When disciples begin to live, and and share the love of Christ practically and verb in those spaces where they live, work, play, and surf online.

Joshua Johnson: 38:16

That's beautiful. And I love to see that individual transformation as, as people are in groups, and they're they're starting to get this, this discipleship, and they're starting to embody Jesus and look like Jesus. How is there any, any work that you do on on purpose and calling and contextualization of, of Jesus to where they work and play and surf online? Is there any work that way so that they actually know that we could actually translate what's happening here to the rest of my life?

David Broodryk: 38:56

Yeah, we actually do quite intense work on that. And so we have a a module called focus that takes teams through a process that helps them discover what is their calling and highest contribution in life, helps them it actually helps them form a purpose statement for them. And they become extremely focused, because one of the challenges in the urban environment is that it's so cosmopolitan. And there are so many different types of people around us. And movements follow natural social networks. And it's hard to see those networks around us because we're just exposed to this diversity of people. And we don't understand that sometimes, we may have five friends, but those friends will never really sit in the same group and become followers of Jesus, they're part of different networks. And I don't have the energy to pursue all of them. So which one is God preparing me or my entire life to step in? So we spend a lot of time with teams around that, and helping them to discern and understand what we say is the affinity that God's called you to the place that God has called you to, and your contribution, your highest contribution because sometimes there can be movement pioneer, sometimes it's administrator, sometimes it's mid videographers, sometimes it's online, you know, Facebook person. And so, and I'm talking urban, but, you know, helping them understand what's their contribution to that place that God's called them to. And so we spend a lot of time on that.

Joshua Johnson: 40:30

That's good that I think that's really key and valuable and importance as people can start to contextualize their their faith in Jesus in their life and Jesus to their end. higher life, that it's not compartmentalized to this one aspect and one area. You know, as you're working with movements, in urban settings, all over the place, what are some things that are really getting you excited right now, any stories that you are dealing with around the world that get you really excited.

David Broodryk: 41:10

I mean, you know, the thing that gets most Christians really excited as the supernatural was seeing God. And so, you know, seeing God move, first of all, and just transforming people's hearts and lives. And one of the reasons that I'm involved on the ground and working with people, because I want to see that myself, I don't want to hear secondhand stories of that. I want to just see that myself. You know, when we, when we started our church in Midrand, it was just supernatural the way that God built it. And that just continues, our first church member was a was a witch, practicing witch came to Christ, we saw a high level businessman, come to Christ through the funniest stories, and how God was working in their life. So that really is seeing hearts transformed because of God encounter is always really, really exciting. And it's a bit of a quandary, because you can't, you can't make God do things. It's also what's exciting is, you know, seeing God just surprised you and Turner. And then in the in the urban space, we're focused on three different areas at the moment, and three macro affinities. The one is urban slums, urban slums, make up 25% of the cities around the world. And so urban slums are growing and exploding. And there's very little work in urban slums that has movement based. And they're wide open to the Gospel. And so we have got a network that has emerged, that has focused on urban slums around the world, primarily at the moment in South Africa, in Kenya, and breaking out into it breaking into other cities. The thing that personally excites me the most really is the young adults. I think that in urban spaces, young adults, which we define as 18 to 35 years old, is probably the most exciting space, you know, we sometimes forget that Jesus disciples were young. And, and they turn the world upside down. Now, I think young adults have this incredible potential to turn the world upside down. And, and so we're seeing these young emerging leaders, and that, to me, is extremely exciting. And then the third area is the business arena. And we are involved in that. And I think that the realm of business, especially business owners, small business owners, are extremely open to the Gospel, and helping them to become involved in movements of the gospel has just been so exciting, taking them and showing them what God is doing. And then getting them involved, both in their own spaces, the people that they employ their own business environment, their own communities, and then their cities has been extremely exciting.

Joshua Johnson: 44:11

Hmm, that's great. Yeah, I just have a couple of questions here at the Antoine is that if you go back to your 21 year old self, what advice would you give?

David Broodryk: 44:23

If I went back to my 21 year old self? I would say it takes time. Yeah. stick through it, you know, the ups and the downs. It takes time. You know, we always have these ideals. People, people call me and they go, can we come and spend some time with you and learn from you? And I say, Yes, how long do you want to come and they say, a month. And so you're not going to learn everything on anything in a month, stay where you are. It's going to take time. And so if you want to learn and if you want to implement come for three years, but don't come for a month. And so we just kind of have this impatience when we're younger. And that's good. Because we dream big dreams. And we want to change the world and we want to see things happen. I don't want to discourage that. I want to encourage that. In the midst of that, and as we press on, and as we risk everything, and as we trust God for the impossible. Don't get discouraged when it doesn't happen overnight. Yeah, it does take time. And God is in the ups and he's in the downs. And in the downs. The times that I've really been discouraged and they've been a lot of the times I've meant the most the times that I've encountered God The most the times that I've gone through the greatest change but Perth personally, and in terms of the ministry that we do in the work that we do, so celebrators, the ups and the downs. And if you want to be involved in movements, you're in it for the long haul.

Joshua Johnson: 46:03

So so as you're saying, you know, you want to be in it for the long haul. And if you know, people are young, how do we get how do we continue to posture ourselves to be risk takers, for the gospel and continue to press forward? And to have a long term mentality? What does that duality look like?

David Broodryk: 46:26

Well, I think just, you know, you just got to live in both worlds. Be a risk taker, but have, you know, have a long term hat on? It's it's as simple as that, you know, it's, it's one risk after the other. It's one failure after the other. Who was John Maxwell, I think wrote a book called failing forward. It's actually a great book. And there's just a lot of truth in that, you know, we fail forward. And we stumbled forward, all of us. And today, I know less than I did when I was 21 years old. I really do. I think as you get older, you realize how little you know, and how much you come to depend on on God. And him taking you forward. It's a it's a fantastic journey. And so you you embrace the journey. You embrace the failure, you embrace the the good times you embrace the downtimes, you embrace the journey, but keep taking risks and risking everything because it's again, in those times of risk and failure that you learn the most.

Joshua Johnson: 47:35

Yeah. Yeah, anything you've been reading or watching lately, you could recommend?

David Broodryk: 47:45

Well, nothing that comes to mind. I've, in the in the last two years, I must admit, I've stopped reading anything movement related, just because as I'm writing and sharing, I want it to be unique. And I don't want to be sharing other people's ideas, right or wrong, but I'm just so scared of plagiarizing. My mind just, you know, brings up you know, what I've heard from others. And so I'm really spending a lot more time in the scriptures and a lot more time listening to God, and a lot more time learning from other leaders on the ground practically what they're learning and less time in the last few years. Reading what others say, yeah, that's just where I'm at. It's not, it's where I'm at.

Joshua Johnson: 48:36

Has God's power to you anywhere in the Scriptures lately, that that really resonates with you.

David Broodryk: 48:45

I think just rereading the book of Acts, just rereading, and rereading how God, how a movement emerges. And looking at that, and going X Chapter Two starts with this incredible story of 3000 people getting baptized. And if you start the if you start there, and you don't read what Luke wrote before, that, the long journey that Jesus took to get to that point, and the building that he had to put into place, and the work with these teams, and the people that rejected him and walked away from him, and what could ultimately be perceived as failure by them, you know, dying on a cross, that whole painful journey that led to this moment. And so chapter two, where it looks like the churches is suddenly burst and explodes. It's just such a fascinating story. And then what's just so fascinating to me, is that Jesus does all this work with 12 disciples loses one, and they replace him and they begin to build and then and then God goes, I'm going to use somebody else, somebody that Jesus didn't even disciple to right 50% of the New Testament. I mean, that just that just makes no sense to me. You know, I mean, you know, there's all this talk Jesus disciple, these 12, and he, you know, this was the birth of the movement and then 50% of the, the New Testament gets written by an outsider, that God just, you know, knocks to the ground, and he gets this vision and he wasn't even one of the 12. And, and you know what, that's also true in our lives. I see that over and over and over, we invest deeply in a small team of people, and we get three or four years down the line and God comes with this newcomer, this young upstart or this you know, guy on the side here that wasn't even part of our thing. And he he does this incredible stuff. And and I It's been it's hit me a couple of times. And I just had to say, well, you know, I think God's just telling me his God. And I just need to keep being faithful with what I have, and celebrate when God uses these people that I didn't disciple that invade my territory, and come into the places that I've been slaving away at for, you know, a couple of years and do these incredible things. It just God is God. And he's not going to share that with anybody else he's going to use and he's going to reward me for that faithfulness of working with those 12 Regardless of what he does,

Joshua Johnson: 51:23

yeah. And that's beautiful. We don't want to put God in a box. He's not a God in a box. And he is God. And we just wants to say he's bigger than really what we think and what we believe. And he has greater Yeah, Goddess, it's pretty amazing what what he does I just love that reflection on x. And and what happened? How can people connect with you or your team? If they want to know more?

David Broodryk: 51:55

Well, at the moment, our primary websites download, you can go to my personal website, David project or org. And I think my name is on there. So you can see the spelling.org and, you know, on the as a contact form, it'll come straight to me or to my assistant. Great and it will respond to you.

Joshua Johnson: 52:14

All right. Well, David was a it was a pleasure talking to you. It was fascinating, really good insights. And so thank you very much. It was great.

David Broodryk: 52:23

Thank you, Joshua. Really great talking to you.