{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":13.259,"endTime":15.029,"body":"Hello, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":13.259,"endTime":15.029,"body":"welcome to the shifting culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":15.029,"endTime":17.369,"body":"podcasts in which we have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":15.029,"endTime":17.369,"body":"conversations about the culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":17.369,"endTime":20.579,"body":"we create and the impact we can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":17.369,"endTime":20.579,"body":"make. I'm your host, Joshua"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":20.579,"endTime":24.209,"body":"Johnson, go to shifting culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":20.579,"endTime":24.209,"body":"podcast.com To interact or"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":24.209,"endTime":27.329,"body":"donate. And don't forget to hit"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":24.209,"endTime":27.329,"body":"the Follow button on your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":27.329,"endTime":31.439,"body":"favorite podcast app and leave a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":27.329,"endTime":31.439,"body":"rating or review. Share your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":31.439,"endTime":34.829,"body":"favorite episodes with your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":31.439,"endTime":34.829,"body":"friends and network. That helps"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":34.829,"endTime":39.539,"body":"us out a lot. So thank you so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":34.829,"endTime":39.539,"body":"much. Previous guests on the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":39.539,"endTime":43.079,"body":"show have included Michael"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":39.539,"endTime":43.079,"body":"frost, Jr, Woodward, and Liam"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":43.079,"endTime":46.859,"body":"burns. But today's guest is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":43.079,"endTime":46.859,"body":"Andrew root. Andrew is the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":46.889,"endTime":50.939,"body":"professor of youth and family"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":46.889,"endTime":50.939,"body":"ministry at Luther Seminary. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":50.939,"endTime":54.209,"body":"he is most recently the author"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":50.939,"endTime":54.209,"body":"of the ministry in the secular"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":54.209,"endTime":57.059,"body":"Age series, his fifth book in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":54.209,"endTime":57.059,"body":"that series, church after"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":57.059,"endTime":61.349,"body":"innovation is out in September."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":57.059,"endTime":61.349,"body":"Andy and I have a fascinating"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":61.349,"endTime":64.949,"body":"conversation about waiting for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":61.349,"endTime":64.949,"body":"God to act, sharing stories of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":64.949,"endTime":67.919,"body":"community encounter the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":64.949,"endTime":67.919,"body":"importance of prayer, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":67.919,"endTime":71.549,"body":"reclaiming resonance in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":67.919,"endTime":71.549,"body":"accelerated age in which we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":71.669,"endTime":74.639,"body":"live. It's really good"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":71.669,"endTime":74.639,"body":"conversation. I know you're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":74.639,"endTime":76.829,"body":"going to enjoy it. I know you're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":74.639,"endTime":76.829,"body":"gonna get a lot out of it, just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":76.829,"endTime":81.899,"body":"like I did. So enjoy the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":76.829,"endTime":81.899,"body":"conversation. Here's Andy. Andy,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":81.899,"endTime":84.599,"body":"welcome. Welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":81.899,"endTime":84.599,"body":"Thanks for coming on."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":85.259,"endTime":87.149,"body":"Yeah, it's great to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":85.259,"endTime":87.149,"body":"be here. Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":87.389,"endTime":89.639,"body":"Yeah. You know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":87.389,"endTime":89.639,"body":"as they're working through the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":89.669,"endTime":93.149,"body":"ministry in the the secular age"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":89.669,"endTime":93.149,"body":"books, and you're walking"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":93.149,"endTime":96.809,"body":"through those things, what, what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":93.149,"endTime":96.809,"body":"problem are you grappling with?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":96.839,"endTime":99.659,"body":"What's the problem that you see?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":96.839,"endTime":99.659,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":99.659,"endTime":102.089,"body":"think if I was to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":99.659,"endTime":102.089,"body":"boil down the problem, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":102.089,"endTime":106.529,"body":"it feels like the problem is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":102.089,"endTime":106.529,"body":"pretty multifaceted. People out"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":106.529,"endTime":108.869,"body":"there on the ground in ministry"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":106.529,"endTime":108.869,"body":"right now are feeling kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":108.899,"endTime":113.219,"body":"bombarded by problems. You know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":108.899,"endTime":113.219,"body":"of course, after the pandemic,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":113.249,"endTime":116.969,"body":"here comes a bunch more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":113.249,"endTime":116.969,"body":"problems. But the big problem"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":116.969,"endTime":119.759,"body":"that's pre pandemic that I want"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":116.969,"endTime":119.759,"body":"to deal with that I think maybe"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":119.759,"endTime":123.779,"body":"is even highlighted more, since"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":119.759,"endTime":123.779,"body":"the pandemic is just how do you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":123.779,"endTime":126.719,"body":"how do you in your vocation,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":123.779,"endTime":126.719,"body":"whether you're the pastor"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":126.719,"endTime":130.019,"body":"preaching every week, or you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":126.719,"endTime":130.019,"body":"the youth director in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":130.019,"endTime":133.349,"body":"basement or the children's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":130.019,"endTime":133.349,"body":"minister, or the associate"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":133.349,"endTime":136.829,"body":"pastor, you know, doing a bunch"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":133.349,"endTime":136.829,"body":"of pastoral care? How do you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":137.189,"endTime":140.729,"body":"talk to people about a living"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":137.189,"endTime":140.729,"body":"God in a kind of cultural"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":140.729,"endTime":146.369,"body":"milieu, that forms people just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":140.729,"endTime":146.369,"body":"not diabolically or not like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":146.369,"endTime":149.459,"body":"forcefully to not want to see"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":146.369,"endTime":149.459,"body":"God, there's not, there's almost"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":149.459,"endTime":153.239,"body":"not even a kind of direct"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":149.459,"endTime":153.239,"body":"atheistic response. It just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":153.239,"endTime":156.149,"body":"happens. It's just kind of in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":153.239,"endTime":156.149,"body":"the air they breathe, and even"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":156.149,"endTime":159.509,"body":"the most committed, most"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":156.149,"endTime":159.509,"body":"committed kind of people to our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":159.509,"endTime":162.689,"body":"congregations can go weeks, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":159.509,"endTime":162.689,"body":"sometimes months without"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":162.689,"endTime":165.629,"body":"thinking about God or forgetting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":162.689,"endTime":165.629,"body":"that they need to pray. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":165.629,"endTime":169.349,"body":"that's a very kind of different"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":165.629,"endTime":169.349,"body":"cultural reality where, and you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":169.349,"endTime":171.869,"body":"know, that's probably been with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":169.349,"endTime":171.869,"body":"us for quite a bit now. But it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":171.869,"endTime":175.979,"body":"seems like it's, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":171.869,"endTime":175.979,"body":"like the chickens have come home"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":175.979,"endTime":179.549,"body":"to roost in some ways, or it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":175.979,"endTime":179.549,"body":"become more pronounced in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":179.549,"endTime":184.169,"body":"certain ways. Maybe as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":179.549,"endTime":184.169,"body":"institutions weaken, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":184.619,"endTime":187.319,"body":"pastoral vocational identity"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":184.619,"endTime":187.319,"body":"starts to feel like, okay, what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":187.319,"endTime":190.529,"body":"am I doing here? What's the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":187.319,"endTime":190.529,"body":"point of this, and probably"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":190.529,"endTime":194.009,"body":"coming on the backside of seeing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":190.529,"endTime":194.009,"body":"a lot of, quote, unquote,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":194.009,"endTime":200.339,"body":"successful churches lead to just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":194.009,"endTime":200.339,"body":"huge amounts of burnout. And,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":201.059,"endTime":203.549,"body":"you know, it's forms of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":201.059,"endTime":203.549,"body":"spiritual abuse that have arisen"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":203.549,"endTime":206.099,"body":"from those. And so, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":203.549,"endTime":206.099,"body":"think it's led people to think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":206.099,"endTime":209.909,"body":"kind of, in the in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":206.099,"endTime":209.909,"body":"afterglows, of late capitalism"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":209.909,"endTime":212.309,"body":"and kind of Silicon Valley like,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":209.909,"endTime":212.309,"body":"Okay, if the pastor isn't a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":212.309,"endTime":214.979,"body":"great, you know, startup"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":212.309,"endTime":214.979,"body":"entrepreneur, what is the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":214.979,"endTime":218.609,"body":"pastor? And can I go back to the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":214.979,"endTime":218.609,"body":"past or someone who helps people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":218.609,"endTime":221.519,"body":"pray and and think about a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":218.609,"endTime":221.519,"body":"living God? Is that, is that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":221.519,"endTime":222.419,"body":"even possible?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":222.66,"endTime":225.63,"body":"Yeah. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":222.66,"endTime":225.63,"body":"that's a fantastic question. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":225.63,"endTime":229.14,"body":"it's also a question of, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":225.63,"endTime":229.14,"body":"know, how do we see the world?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":229.14,"endTime":234.57,"body":"What's our worldview? If we have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":229.14,"endTime":234.57,"body":"a view of the world in which,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":234.6,"endTime":241.23,"body":"you know, say, I, the self, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":234.6,"endTime":241.23,"body":"am, you know, I am God, even"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":241.23,"endTime":245.67,"body":"though we don't, we may not"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":241.23,"endTime":245.67,"body":"overtly say that. We it just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":245.7,"endTime":250.2,"body":"naturally is that it's all about"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":245.7,"endTime":250.2,"body":"us. It's all about the self,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":250.2,"endTime":256.71,"body":"it's all about us trying to, to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":250.2,"endTime":256.71,"body":"propagate something, and to try"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":256.71,"endTime":261.0,"body":"to use all of our, our muster to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":256.71,"endTime":261.0,"body":"get something out of this world."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":262.47,"endTime":265.5,"body":"If we're seeing the world in a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":262.47,"endTime":265.5,"body":"view like that, what does it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":265.5,"endTime":267.69,"body":"look like? What is the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":265.5,"endTime":267.69,"body":"congregation? What does the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":267.69,"endTime":270.9,"body":"church the community of God look"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":267.69,"endTime":270.9,"body":"like with one another, then?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":271.86,"endTime":275.22,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":271.86,"endTime":275.22,"body":"think that becomes the real"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":275.22,"endTime":278.13,"body":"challenge for us. Because, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":275.22,"endTime":278.13,"body":"know, I agree with you that the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":278.16,"endTime":282.3,"body":"the self has been forced to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":278.16,"endTime":282.3,"body":"carry more weight than probably"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":282.36,"endTime":285.24,"body":"I, you know, this is a big"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":282.36,"endTime":285.24,"body":"statement that I can't verify,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":285.24,"endTime":286.86,"body":"like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":285.24,"endTime":286.86,"body":"anthropologically, or something,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":286.86,"endTime":289.8,"body":"but maybe more than any other"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":286.86,"endTime":289.8,"body":"time in human history, like the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":289.8,"endTime":292.86,"body":"self has to bear a lot of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":289.8,"endTime":292.86,"body":"weight. Now, part of that comes"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":292.86,"endTime":295.89,"body":"out of there, just the realities"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":292.86,"endTime":295.89,"body":"of, you know, Augustinian"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":295.89,"endTime":298.5,"body":"theology and the Reformation"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":295.89,"endTime":298.5,"body":"which put a lot of weight on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":298.5,"endTime":301.35,"body":"myself to you know, your If"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":298.5,"endTime":301.35,"body":"you're the one who reads the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":301.35,"endTime":304.74,"body":"Bible, you're the one who goes"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":301.35,"endTime":304.74,"body":"before a holy God, and praise"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":304.74,"endTime":308.25,"body":"the confession, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":304.74,"endTime":308.25,"body":"you do this. So that puts a lot"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":308.25,"endTime":312.06,"body":"of weight on the self. But not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":308.25,"endTime":312.06,"body":"this kind of way, like, for us,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":312.06,"endTime":315.36,"body":"I think is late modern people,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":312.06,"endTime":315.36,"body":"we start to feel like there"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":315.36,"endTime":320.37,"body":"really is no meaning out side of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":315.36,"endTime":320.37,"body":"us, that any meaning we find in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":320.37,"endTime":323.73,"body":"the world has to be constructed"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":320.37,"endTime":323.73,"body":"internally, we have to discover"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":323.73,"endTime":327.51,"body":"it in ourselves. And that's a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":323.73,"endTime":327.51,"body":"very different reality to live"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":327.51,"endTime":331.77,"body":"in, where we don't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":327.51,"endTime":331.77,"body":"assume there's a whole lot or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":331.77,"endTime":334.92,"body":"maybe for some people, even any"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":331.77,"endTime":334.92,"body":"meaning outside of us, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":334.92,"endTime":339.66,"body":"that's just chaos or frustration"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":334.92,"endTime":339.66,"body":"or horizons to conquer"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":339.66,"endTime":342.33,"body":"something, but really any"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":339.66,"endTime":342.33,"body":"meaning will have will be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":342.33,"endTime":345.75,"body":"discovered internally. That's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":342.33,"endTime":345.75,"body":"tough. And it's tough to do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":345.75,"endTime":349.29,"body":"ministry in that context,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":345.75,"endTime":349.29,"body":"because, well, especially in any"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":349.29,"endTime":353.25,"body":"kind of Protestant kind of form,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":349.29,"endTime":353.25,"body":"to where, you know, this, this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":353.25,"endTime":355.92,"body":"Protestant form of putting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":353.25,"endTime":355.92,"body":"weight on the self, like the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":355.92,"endTime":358.8,"body":"self is the one who reads the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":355.92,"endTime":358.8,"body":"scriptures itself can go before"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":358.8,"endTime":362.28,"body":"God, it doesn't need a priest to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":358.8,"endTime":362.28,"body":"mediate this. It also had the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":362.28,"endTime":365.1,"body":"assertion that balance this,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":362.28,"endTime":365.1,"body":"that the self was sinful and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":365.1,"endTime":368.28,"body":"broken, it needed something"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":365.1,"endTime":368.28,"body":"outside the self to save the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":368.28,"endTime":371.91,"body":"cell. And now we kind of assumed"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":368.28,"endTime":371.91,"body":"that the Self does save its own"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":371.91,"endTime":376.08,"body":"self and particularly saves"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":371.91,"endTime":376.08,"body":"itself from meaninglessness and,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":376.32,"endTime":381.66,"body":"and, and boredom. So, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":376.32,"endTime":381.66,"body":"the big question is, how do we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":381.69,"endTime":385.8,"body":"free our people? How do we help"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":381.69,"endTime":385.8,"body":"people? I mean, the crazy thing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":385.8,"endTime":389.49,"body":"about this, then in which is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":385.8,"endTime":389.49,"body":"hard to talk about is that, that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":389.67,"endTime":394.5,"body":"obsession with the self that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":389.67,"endTime":394.5,"body":"that almost making the self its"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":394.5,"endTime":397.62,"body":"own god, like you're saying, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":394.5,"endTime":397.62,"body":"carrying the weight of all"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":397.62,"endTime":401.28,"body":"meaning and purpose, there's a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":397.62,"endTime":401.28,"body":"certain way that it becomes so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":401.28,"endTime":403.74,"body":"easy then to turn on the self"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":401.28,"endTime":403.74,"body":"and hate the self. So we have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":403.74,"endTime":407.43,"body":"this really strange, strange"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":403.74,"endTime":407.43,"body":"culture, where people just, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":407.43,"endTime":410.01,"body":"know, you just go on to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":407.43,"endTime":410.01,"body":"Instagram or Tiktok and people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":410.01,"endTime":412.74,"body":"are just all about themselves."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":410.01,"endTime":412.74,"body":"You know, there's nothing but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":412.74,"endTime":416.25,"body":"Mee Mee Mee, mee, mee, Mee Mee"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":412.74,"endTime":416.25,"body":"or you watch reality TV, TV, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":416.25,"endTime":418.83,"body":"you hear these people just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":416.25,"endTime":418.83,"body":"talking about me, me, me, me all"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":418.83,"endTime":422.01,"body":"the time. And yet the same"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":418.83,"endTime":422.01,"body":"people can be Amini me can just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":422.01,"endTime":424.5,"body":"turn on themselves and hate"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":422.01,"endTime":424.5,"body":"themselves to, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":424.71,"endTime":428.1,"body":"utterly have let themselves"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":424.71,"endTime":428.1,"body":"down. You don't have to compete"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":428.25,"endTime":430.65,"body":"for anything else. It looks like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":428.25,"endTime":430.65,"body":"everyone else has been able to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":430.65,"endTime":433.38,"body":"find meaning within themselves,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":430.65,"endTime":433.38,"body":"but I can't. So there's this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":433.38,"endTime":437.76,"body":"kind of whiplash of like over"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":433.38,"endTime":437.76,"body":"glorifying yourself which well,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":437.76,"endTime":441.84,"body":"it leads to a fetish you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":437.76,"endTime":441.84,"body":"in fetishes are magical objects"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":441.84,"endTime":444.87,"body":"that never fulfill. So you end"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":441.84,"endTime":444.87,"body":"up hating your fetish as much as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":444.87,"endTime":448.53,"body":"you want your fetish. And so the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":444.87,"endTime":448.53,"body":"self becomes a kind of fetish"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":448.53,"endTime":452.22,"body":"that can't save in any way. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":448.53,"endTime":452.22,"body":"so we have to find a way I think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":452.22,"endTime":454.53,"body":"in pastoral ministry"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":452.22,"endTime":454.53,"body":"particularly is it how do you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":454.56,"endTime":459.39,"body":"free people from the adultery of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":454.56,"endTime":459.39,"body":"the self without that leading in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":459.39,"endTime":462.63,"body":"them, leading them to like hate"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":459.39,"endTime":462.63,"body":"themselves, or to become"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":462.63,"endTime":466.65,"body":"masochistic in some way? Like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":462.63,"endTime":466.65,"body":"how do we, how does the Gospel"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":466.65,"endTime":470.58,"body":"itself which I think it really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":466.65,"endTime":470.58,"body":"does, leads us to relativize the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":470.58,"endTime":474.6,"body":"self under God's own act and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":470.58,"endTime":474.6,"body":"being but it leads us back to,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":474.9,"endTime":478.14,"body":"to love ourselves, but love"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":474.9,"endTime":478.14,"body":"ourselves not in the power of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":478.14,"endTime":482.16,"body":"our own self, but in the very"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":478.14,"endTime":482.16,"body":"reality that Jesus Christ has"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":482.16,"endTime":486.39,"body":"come died rose again, and and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":482.16,"endTime":486.39,"body":"called yourself into life? You"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":486.39,"endTime":490.08,"body":"know, that's a very different,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":486.39,"endTime":490.08,"body":"that's a very different reality."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":490.08,"endTime":493.59,"body":"So to me, that becomes the real"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":490.08,"endTime":493.59,"body":"challenge. I'm not sure I even"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":493.59,"endTime":497.76,"body":"got your question. But that was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":493.59,"endTime":497.76,"body":"a rambling mess and answer."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":498.75,"endTime":500.79,"body":"It's got a big"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":498.75,"endTime":500.79,"body":"challenge. So what does it look"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":500.79,"endTime":505.74,"body":"like? Can we actually get to a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":500.79,"endTime":505.74,"body":"place where we see something"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":505.74,"endTime":508.92,"body":"outside of ourselves, and I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":505.74,"endTime":508.92,"body":"think even a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":508.92,"endTime":513.36,"body":"within Christendom, which I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":508.92,"endTime":513.36,"body":"don't know how much Christendom"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":513.36,"endTime":517.5,"body":"is left, but in the Christian"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":513.36,"endTime":517.5,"body":"world, they don't see it."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":518.22,"endTime":523.44,"body":"They're blind to this, the self"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":518.22,"endTime":523.44,"body":"propagation. And they think that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":523.44,"endTime":527.52,"body":"they're, they're talking God and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":523.44,"endTime":527.52,"body":"God is outside of themselves."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":527.52,"endTime":530.1,"body":"They're encountering him"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":527.52,"endTime":530.1,"body":"somehow. But it's really they're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":530.1,"endTime":536.49,"body":"trying to create, or make God"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":530.1,"endTime":536.49,"body":"into their own image instead of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":536.52,"endTime":542.19,"body":"us being made into the image of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":536.52,"endTime":542.19,"body":"God. So what are some ways that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":542.19,"endTime":547.47,"body":"we can start to help? Let's help"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":542.19,"endTime":547.47,"body":"people see what is going on and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":547.47,"endTime":550.62,"body":"get them to back to a place"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":547.47,"endTime":550.62,"body":"where we can encounter God"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":550.62,"endTime":550.92,"body":"again."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":608.4,"endTime":611.73,"body":"Yeah, I mean, for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":608.4,"endTime":611.73,"body":"really central for me. And to be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":611.73,"endTime":614.22,"body":"completely honest, this comes"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":611.73,"endTime":614.22,"body":"completely out of my own"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":614.43,"endTime":618.99,"body":"theological commitments and my"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":614.43,"endTime":618.99,"body":"own kind of Lutheran early"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":618.99,"endTime":621.96,"body":"reformed kind of up commitments."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":618.99,"endTime":621.96,"body":"But there is really something"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":621.96,"endTime":625.38,"body":"central to me about the theology"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":621.96,"endTime":625.38,"body":"of the cross, and the theology"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":625.38,"endTime":629.16,"body":"of the cross as as a way of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":625.38,"endTime":629.16,"body":"really interpreting how it is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":629.16,"endTime":631.98,"body":"that God acts and moves in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":629.16,"endTime":631.98,"body":"world, which I think is true for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":631.98,"endTime":635.64,"body":"Luther. Like it isn't just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":631.98,"endTime":635.64,"body":"purely a kind of doctrinal"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":635.64,"endTime":638.4,"body":"assertion, it is a practical"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":635.64,"endTime":638.4,"body":"assertion of this is how this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":638.4,"endTime":640.89,"body":"God moves in the world. And that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":638.4,"endTime":640.89,"body":"if you're going to find this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":640.89,"endTime":646.26,"body":"God, you have to find this God"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":640.89,"endTime":646.26,"body":"in, in suffering and in loss,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":646.29,"endTime":649.17,"body":"you know, there's this kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":646.29,"endTime":649.17,"body":"echo of, of this kind of Pauline"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":649.17,"endTime":652.68,"body":"theology that it's kind of in a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":649.17,"endTime":652.68,"body":"death experience in in, in the,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":652.8299999999999,"endTime":655.11,"body":"you know, being being knocked to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":652.8299999999999,"endTime":655.11,"body":"the ground on the road to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":655.11,"endTime":658.8,"body":"Damascus, being In Judas, this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":655.11,"endTime":658.8,"body":"house in the street called"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":658.8,"endTime":662.04,"body":"straight like an axe nine, that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":658.8,"endTime":662.04,"body":"you when everything is wiped"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":662.04,"endTime":664.74,"body":"away when everything you thought"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":662.04,"endTime":664.74,"body":"you were supposed to do, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":664.74,"endTime":670.89,"body":"that all gets wiped away, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":664.74,"endTime":670.89,"body":"realize, or you find the God who"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":670.89,"endTime":674.61,"body":"takes what is dead and makes it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":670.89,"endTime":674.61,"body":"alive in your life. So that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":674.61,"endTime":677.64,"body":"becomes a very different"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":674.61,"endTime":677.64,"body":"dynamic, where instead of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":677.64,"endTime":680.88,"body":"ministry being about kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":677.64,"endTime":680.88,"body":"self help, how do we optimize"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":680.91,"endTime":684.15,"body":"your greatest self? Yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":680.91,"endTime":684.15,"body":"really becomes about really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":684.15,"endTime":687.3299999999999,"body":"practically, how do we form"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":684.15,"endTime":687.3299999999999,"body":"communities where people can"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":687.3299999999999,"endTime":690.6899999999999,"body":"confess a death experience,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":687.3299999999999,"endTime":690.6899999999999,"body":"confess the places where they're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":690.6899999999999,"endTime":695.4,"body":"lost, the places where they, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":690.6899999999999,"endTime":695.4,"body":"know, just just by circumstance"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":695.4,"endTime":698.61,"body":"are lost, like someone in their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":695.4,"endTime":698.61,"body":"family is deeply sick, and they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":698.61,"endTime":702.48,"body":"need God to act on that, or have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":698.61,"endTime":702.48,"body":"have gotten themselves lost"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":702.51,"endTime":706.23,"body":"chasing after all sorts of other"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":702.51,"endTime":706.23,"body":"goods that have been nothing but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":706.23,"endTime":709.4399999999999,"body":"bad and that and not good. But"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":706.23,"endTime":709.4399999999999,"body":"how do we invite people to kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":709.4399999999999,"endTime":713.43,"body":"of narrate those experiences. So"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":709.4399999999999,"endTime":713.43,"body":"to me, there's something about"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":713.52,"endTime":717.18,"body":"you, at least from one reading"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":713.52,"endTime":717.18,"body":"of kind of Paul and Luther and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":718.14,"endTime":721.05,"body":"in even like someone like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":718.14,"endTime":721.05,"body":"Bonhoeffer is that there's this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":721.0799999999999,"endTime":724.3199999999999,"body":"there's this assertion that the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":721.0799999999999,"endTime":724.3199999999999,"body":"first move of the self is to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":724.3199999999999,"endTime":728.61,"body":"surrender, in confession,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":724.3199999999999,"endTime":728.61,"body":"there's a kind of move towards"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":728.61,"endTime":731.22,"body":"confession. And again, that we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":728.61,"endTime":731.22,"body":"have to be really careful"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":731.22,"endTime":733.65,"body":"doesn't turn into the kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":731.22,"endTime":733.65,"body":"spiritual abuse to where we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":733.65,"endTime":735.9,"body":"asked him to confess we can have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":733.65,"endTime":735.9,"body":"power over them, you know what I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":735.9,"endTime":740.01,"body":"mean, but it becomes a kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":735.9,"endTime":740.01,"body":"form of confession, that is a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":740.01,"endTime":744.12,"body":"certain vulnerability that is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":740.01,"endTime":744.12,"body":"narrated to a community that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":744.12,"endTime":748.17,"body":"allows us to share in each"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":744.12,"endTime":748.17,"body":"other's lives. So I think my my"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":748.17,"endTime":752.9399999999999,"body":"theological kind of novel idea,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":748.17,"endTime":752.9399999999999,"body":"or what I've tried to push is to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":752.9399999999999,"endTime":756.6,"body":"think about God, as always a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":752.9399999999999,"endTime":756.6,"body":"minister, that God is primarily"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":756.6,"endTime":759.54,"body":"a minister. So the God we know"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":756.6,"endTime":759.54,"body":"is a God who acts in the world"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":759.54,"endTime":762.66,"body":"and how this got to x. And what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":759.54,"endTime":762.66,"body":"this got X for the sake of is to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":762.66,"endTime":766.38,"body":"minister to the world. And so to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":762.66,"endTime":766.38,"body":"share on this God's being, we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":766.38,"endTime":769.56,"body":"have to share this God's act. So"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":766.38,"endTime":769.56,"body":"when we do really ministered to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":769.56,"endTime":773.97,"body":"our neighbor, out of their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":769.56,"endTime":773.97,"body":"experiences of loss and death,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":773.97,"endTime":777.87,"body":"and, and where the self finds"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":773.97,"endTime":777.87,"body":"itself at its limit, that there"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":777.87,"endTime":782.31,"body":"is a way that the divine breaks"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":777.87,"endTime":782.31,"body":"in to the human, there is a way"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":782.31,"endTime":785.6999999999999,"body":"that Jesus Christ is present"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":782.31,"endTime":785.6999999999999,"body":"acting, there's a way that we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":785.6999999999999,"endTime":789.3,"body":"can testify to the God of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":785.6999999999999,"endTime":789.3,"body":"Israel, taking what again,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":789.3,"endTime":792.81,"body":"taking what is dead and making"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":789.3,"endTime":792.81,"body":"it alive. But that's, that's the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":792.81,"endTime":794.16,"body":"way I tend to try to think about"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":792.81,"endTime":794.16,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":794.52,"endTime":798.36,"body":"Yeah, death and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":794.52,"endTime":798.36,"body":"resurrection. And, and a daily"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":798.36,"endTime":801.78,"body":"death and resurrection. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":798.36,"endTime":801.78,"body":"it's, it's combined in both the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":801.78,"endTime":805.47,"body":"death and resurrection are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":801.78,"endTime":805.47,"body":"combined together. And it's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":805.47,"endTime":808.17,"body":"beautiful things we're walking"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":805.47,"endTime":808.17,"body":"with others through that, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":808.17,"endTime":810.75,"body":"we're going through that, as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":808.17,"endTime":810.75,"body":"well as figuring out how can we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":810.75,"endTime":816.48,"body":"actually die to ourselves daily,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":810.75,"endTime":816.48,"body":"and come back to life and, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":816.48,"endTime":822.42,"body":"see and have life in Christ. You"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":816.48,"endTime":822.42,"body":"know, in my circles, that I run"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":822.42,"endTime":827.55,"body":"in, there are a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":822.42,"endTime":827.55,"body":"that really I run a lot of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":827.55,"endTime":830.88,"body":"mission circles, church planting"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":827.55,"endTime":830.88,"body":"circles. So there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":830.88,"endTime":836.25,"body":"outward action and activity,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":830.88,"endTime":836.25,"body":"there's a they're, they're being"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":836.25,"endTime":844.17,"body":"busy to justify their own"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":836.25,"endTime":844.17,"body":"existence. You know, and you're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":844.1999999999999,"endTime":847.68,"body":"grappling with, you know, with,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":844.1999999999999,"endTime":847.68,"body":"with Taylor, and Bonhoeffer, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":847.68,"endTime":850.59,"body":"Barton, all these theologians as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":847.68,"endTime":850.59,"body":"you're walking through them."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":851.43,"endTime":854.85,"body":"What are some implications for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":851.43,"endTime":854.85,"body":"mission and church planting that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":854.88,"endTime":856.92,"body":"you have gleaned from that?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":857.67,"endTime":859.5,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":857.67,"endTime":859.5,"body":"there's a really kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":859.5,"endTime":863.37,"body":"counterintuitive thing that I'm"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":859.5,"endTime":863.37,"body":"more and more committed to, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":863.37,"endTime":867.51,"body":"know, as you set it up, but it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":863.37,"endTime":867.51,"body":"is just kind of where I've been"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":867.51,"endTime":871.53,"body":"going is this, there is this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":867.51,"endTime":871.53,"body":"real push to be busy and to kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":871.53,"endTime":875.0699999999999,"body":"of justify, justify ourselves"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":871.53,"endTime":875.0699999999999,"body":"through busyness. And I think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":875.0699999999999,"endTime":879.93,"body":"there's a way of realizing that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":875.0699999999999,"endTime":879.93,"body":"we individually need to kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":879.93,"endTime":882.72,"body":"confess for that reality. But"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":879.93,"endTime":882.72,"body":"there's also just a way that the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":882.72,"endTime":886.62,"body":"larger structures of our society"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":882.72,"endTime":886.62,"body":"just push that upon us and, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":886.62,"endTime":889.86,"body":"really, what it means to be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":886.62,"endTime":889.86,"body":"modern people in many ways is to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":889.86,"endTime":893.55,"body":"have this kind of conception,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":889.86,"endTime":893.55,"body":"that things can be sped up, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":893.55,"endTime":897.18,"body":"things can go faster. And that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":893.55,"endTime":897.18,"body":"the best way is the fast way,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":897.21,"endTime":901.74,"body":"you know, so. But the problem"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":897.21,"endTime":901.74,"body":"with that is that we can start"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":901.74,"endTime":905.73,"body":"to go so fast, and we tend to go"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":901.74,"endTime":905.73,"body":"so fast, that we can really find"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":905.73,"endTime":908.85,"body":"ourselves alienated from the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":905.73,"endTime":908.85,"body":"deeper things of life like this,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":908.91,"endTime":912.27,"body":"to me that, you know, we talked"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":908.91,"endTime":912.27,"body":"about how outside of ourselves,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":912.27,"endTime":916.29,"body":"there can be no meaning, like,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":912.27,"endTime":916.29,"body":"that's only really possible, if"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":916.62,"endTime":920.28,"body":"we end up going at such a speed"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":916.62,"endTime":920.28,"body":"or the whole of society and the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":920.28,"endTime":922.38,"body":"kind of structural realities,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":920.28,"endTime":922.38,"body":"particularly of the Western"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":922.38,"endTime":926.31,"body":"world start to go so fast, that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":922.38,"endTime":926.31,"body":"almost all the life gets sucked"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":926.31,"endTime":929.25,"body":"out of it for kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":926.31,"endTime":929.25,"body":"instrumentalizing everything to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":929.25,"endTime":933.5699999999999,"body":"go faster and into crew and to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":929.25,"endTime":933.5699999999999,"body":"do more and to grow, to grow, to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":933.5699999999999,"endTime":938.01,"body":"grow to grow. And, you know, no"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":933.5699999999999,"endTime":938.01,"body":"one should be no one should feel"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":938.01,"endTime":941.34,"body":"bad about growth or no one"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":938.01,"endTime":941.34,"body":"should be against growth, but we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":941.34,"endTime":944.9399999999999,"body":"do also have to recognize that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":941.34,"endTime":944.9399999999999,"body":"not all growth is good. You"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":944.9399999999999,"endTime":949.23,"body":"know, like cancer is a growth"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":944.9399999999999,"endTime":949.23,"body":"that isn't that good that that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":949.38,"endTime":952.23,"body":"that kills? And so I think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":949.38,"endTime":952.23,"body":"sometimes what's happened to us"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":952.23,"endTime":955.68,"body":"in the midst of our kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":952.23,"endTime":955.68,"body":"feeling haunted by ghosts of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":955.68,"endTime":959.37,"body":"decline or needing, therefore"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":955.68,"endTime":959.37,"body":"needing to kind of justify our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":959.37,"endTime":963.84,"body":"positions is that we kind of run"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":959.37,"endTime":963.84,"body":"to these models that were been"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":963.84,"endTime":966.51,"body":"given through economic"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":963.84,"endTime":966.51,"body":"structures and just other"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":966.51,"endTime":969.48,"body":"institutional structures of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":966.51,"endTime":969.48,"body":"modernity, which is to, to look"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":969.51,"endTime":974.31,"body":"at how we stabilize ourselves as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":969.51,"endTime":974.31,"body":"a sociologist Herman Rosen says"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":974.31,"endTime":977.85,"body":"dynamically, so how growth"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":974.31,"endTime":977.85,"body":"becomes what stabilizes. So you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":977.85,"endTime":980.76,"body":"have a mission startup, the only"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":977.85,"endTime":980.76,"body":"way to really justify the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":980.76,"endTime":984.18,"body":"mission startup is that it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":980.76,"endTime":984.18,"body":"should be growing, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":984.3,"endTime":988.59,"body":"someone would have the numbers"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":984.3,"endTime":988.59,"body":"like 15 20% annually in members"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":988.59,"endTime":993.12,"body":"in and giving dollars, and if"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":988.59,"endTime":993.12,"body":"it's not, if it's let's say it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":993.12,"endTime":997.8,"body":"growing at 6% or 7% clip, then"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":993.12,"endTime":997.8,"body":"really, you know, should the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":997.8,"endTime":1002.0,"body":"denomination or the network"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":997.8,"endTime":1002.0,"body":"invest in that church plan? I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1002.0,"endTime":1005.12,"body":"don't know. Like, when it comes"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1002.0,"endTime":1005.12,"body":"to a company, like flat growth"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1005.12,"endTime":1009.11,"body":"is death, you know, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1005.12,"endTime":1009.11,"body":"almost better, your your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1009.11,"endTime":1012.41,"body":"investors will be almost more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1009.11,"endTime":1012.41,"body":"okay with you to just go down in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1012.41,"endTime":1017.27,"body":"a blaze of fire and in you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1012.41,"endTime":1017.27,"body":"in crash than then to be growing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1017.27,"endTime":1020.3,"body":"at one or 2% No one, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1017.27,"endTime":1020.3,"body":"no investor wants that, like,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1020.3,"endTime":1022.76,"body":"that's, that's nothing, they'd"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1020.3,"endTime":1022.76,"body":"rather you swing for the fences"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1022.76,"endTime":1027.14,"body":"and lose everything and just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1022.76,"endTime":1027.14,"body":"grow at one or 2%. But I think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1027.14,"endTime":1030.1100000000001,"body":"that gets transferred to how we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1027.14,"endTime":1030.1100000000001,"body":"think even about about ministry,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1030.1100000000001,"endTime":1033.2,"body":"and what that ends up doing is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1030.1100000000001,"endTime":1033.2,"body":"just burning us out. And it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1033.44,"endTime":1037.25,"body":"ultimately leads us unable to do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1033.44,"endTime":1037.25,"body":"the thing that I think God calls"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1037.25,"endTime":1041.33,"body":"us to do, which is to wait on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1037.25,"endTime":1041.33,"body":"God. You know, the God of Israel"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1041.33,"endTime":1045.2,"body":"is, is a very interesting, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1041.33,"endTime":1045.2,"body":"know, interesting god, oh, God,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1045.2,"endTime":1048.5,"body":"this God says, but about God's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1045.2,"endTime":1048.5,"body":"self in the Scripture is really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1048.5,"endTime":1051.92,"body":"is this assertion that I'm an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1048.5,"endTime":1051.92,"body":"acting God, and you have to wait"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1051.92,"endTime":1056.15,"body":"for me, and you have to wait for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1051.92,"endTime":1056.15,"body":"my my action? Well, in a late"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1056.15,"endTime":1059.3,"body":"consumer society, my gosh, like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1056.15,"endTime":1059.3,"body":"Homer Simpson has taught us that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1059.3,"endTime":1061.52,"body":"waiting is the death of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1059.3,"endTime":1061.52,"body":"everything, you know, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1061.52,"endTime":1064.7,"body":"like, we're trying to get all"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1061.52,"endTime":1064.7,"body":"the waiting out of life. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1064.7,"endTime":1069.71,"body":"yet, I think at the deep core of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1064.7,"endTime":1069.71,"body":"ministry, and discipleship is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1069.71,"endTime":1073.6100000000001,"body":"learning to wait and wait on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1069.71,"endTime":1073.6100000000001,"body":"this God. And so, you know, are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1073.6100000000001,"endTime":1076.04,"body":"there other rubrics even think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1073.6100000000001,"endTime":1076.04,"body":"about a church plant or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1076.04,"endTime":1079.49,"body":"something like that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1076.04,"endTime":1079.49,"body":"like, what are the narratives of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1079.55,"endTime":1083.33,"body":"life coming out of death here?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1079.55,"endTime":1083.33,"body":"And is it possible you could be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1083.33,"endTime":1087.41,"body":"at flat growth, or even a little"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1083.33,"endTime":1087.41,"body":"bit of a little bit declining"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1087.41,"endTime":1090.56,"body":"growth, and yet you have these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1087.41,"endTime":1090.56,"body":"incredible narratives of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1090.56,"endTime":1094.34,"body":"Spirit moving of Jesus Christ"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1090.56,"endTime":1094.34,"body":"and moving in your community of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1094.34,"endTime":1098.6,"body":"life coming out of death, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1094.34,"endTime":1098.6,"body":"too often, and I know it in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1098.6,"endTime":1102.11,"body":"traditions I work in is that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1098.6,"endTime":1102.11,"body":"those narratives don't matter so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1102.1399999999999,"endTime":1105.2,"body":"much is the fact that you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1102.1399999999999,"endTime":1105.2,"body":"making your budget, more people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1105.2,"endTime":1108.71,"body":"are coming in than last quarter,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1105.2,"endTime":1108.71,"body":"and on and on, it goes,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1109.07,"endTime":1111.44,"body":"well, it's sad."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1109.07,"endTime":1111.44,"body":"And also, what it does right now"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1111.44,"endTime":1115.04,"body":"is it's pushing all my buttons"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1111.44,"endTime":1115.04,"body":"like I like I don't know, if I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1115.04,"endTime":1118.73,"body":"could just sit wait for God to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1115.04,"endTime":1118.73,"body":"act. Like I don't know if I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1118.73,"endTime":1121.85,"body":"could do that. I would like to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1118.73,"endTime":1121.85,"body":"do that. And I want to figure"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1121.85,"endTime":1125.27,"body":"out how do I do that? Well, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1121.85,"endTime":1125.27,"body":"how do I do that with purpose"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1125.27,"endTime":1130.7,"body":"and meaning, and see in life,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1125.27,"endTime":1130.7,"body":"coming out of death? But how do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1130.7,"endTime":1133.97,"body":"I do that? How do we do that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1130.7,"endTime":1133.97,"body":"practically, in a way where I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1133.97,"endTime":1137.3,"body":"don't feel like I'm, I'm wasting"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1133.97,"endTime":1137.3,"body":"my life. And I'm see I'm talking"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1137.3,"endTime":1143.3,"body":"through this eminent frame,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1137.3,"endTime":1143.3,"body":"right, this world says it's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1143.3,"endTime":1144.08,"body":"about the self."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1144.62,"endTime":1146.78,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1144.62,"endTime":1146.78,"body":"absolutely. I mean, you can see"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1146.78,"endTime":1149.12,"body":"how that plays in. Like, if you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1146.78,"endTime":1149.12,"body":"have to sit and wait and do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1149.12,"endTime":1152.99,"body":"nothing, and the self gets"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1149.12,"endTime":1152.99,"body":"bored. It's even kind of more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1152.99,"endTime":1156.32,"body":"existential than, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1152.99,"endTime":1156.32,"body":"like, I don't like this movie,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1156.32,"endTime":1160.25,"body":"it's boring. But like boredom,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1156.32,"endTime":1160.25,"body":"feeling like, your own action is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1160.25,"endTime":1163.07,"body":"trapped or unable to go all of a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1160.25,"endTime":1163.07,"body":"sudden makes you feel like you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1163.07,"endTime":1165.83,"body":"have no purpose, you have no"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1163.07,"endTime":1165.83,"body":"identity, and it becomes a kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1165.83,"endTime":1168.83,"body":"of existential crisis. I do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1165.83,"endTime":1168.83,"body":"think you know, that we do have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1168.83,"endTime":1171.41,"body":"to be aware that there are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1168.83,"endTime":1171.41,"body":"different kinds of, of waiting,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1171.44,"endTime":1174.23,"body":"you know, you know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1171.44,"endTime":1174.23,"body":"Like, it's really hard. I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1174.23,"endTime":1176.66,"body":"suppose there are people out"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1174.23,"endTime":1176.66,"body":"there and God bless them. But"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1176.66,"endTime":1179.54,"body":"it's really hard. Like when your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1176.66,"endTime":1179.54,"body":"flight is delayed, and you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1179.54,"endTime":1182.0,"body":"sitting in an airport, and you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1179.54,"endTime":1182.0,"body":"have to, you have to sit there"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1182.0,"endTime":1184.97,"body":"for an hour and a half waiting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1182.0,"endTime":1184.97,"body":"to board, it's pretty hard to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1184.97,"endTime":1187.91,"body":"find that as a spiritual space."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1184.97,"endTime":1187.91,"body":"You know what I mean? Like that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1187.91,"endTime":1193.4,"body":"kind of waiting? Just pretty"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1187.91,"endTime":1193.4,"body":"much 99.9% of the time sucks."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1193.8799999999999,"endTime":1198.2,"body":"There's probably some real true"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1193.8799999999999,"endTime":1198.2,"body":"mystics, spirituality, people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1198.2,"endTime":1201.2,"body":"out there who can, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1198.2,"endTime":1201.2,"body":"start praying for people who are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1201.2,"endTime":1203.33,"body":"waiting, I tend to look at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1201.2,"endTime":1203.33,"body":"people and think you are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1203.33,"endTime":1208.37,"body":"annoying to get me on my plane,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1203.33,"endTime":1208.37,"body":"I want to I want to go. So there"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1208.37,"endTime":1212.69,"body":"is a kind of waiting that just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1208.37,"endTime":1212.69,"body":"feels like being stuck. Yet"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1212.69,"endTime":1215.45,"body":"there also is a kind of waiting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1212.69,"endTime":1215.45,"body":"where it feels like you're in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1215.45,"endTime":1219.53,"body":"time and it's full. It's it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1215.45,"endTime":1219.53,"body":"full of something. But I think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1219.53,"endTime":1224.18,"body":"the difference in that kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1219.53,"endTime":1224.18,"body":"waiting is the kind of narrative"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1224.18,"endTime":1227.69,"body":"that forms you in your waiting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1224.18,"endTime":1227.69,"body":"and what you're anticipating,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1227.93,"endTime":1230.87,"body":"you know, so when I'm waiting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1227.93,"endTime":1230.87,"body":"for a plane and it's delayed, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1230.87,"endTime":1234.41,"body":"have no real story that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1230.87,"endTime":1234.41,"body":"framing my waiting. My waiting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1234.41,"endTime":1239.12,"body":"just feels like the most"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1234.41,"endTime":1239.12,"body":"inconvenient thing there is. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1239.15,"endTime":1242.81,"body":"I feel really trapped and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1239.15,"endTime":1242.81,"body":"annoyed and therefore I hate all"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1242.81,"endTime":1247.16,"body":"the people because they're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1242.81,"endTime":1247.16,"body":"keeping me from where my goal of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1247.16,"endTime":1251.24,"body":"moving on. But when we wait with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1247.16,"endTime":1251.24,"body":"a story, you can see there's a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1251.24,"endTime":1254.72,"body":"kind of theme of the story. It's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1251.24,"endTime":1254.72,"body":"a different kind of waiting, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1254.72,"endTime":1258.08,"body":"know, so one of the things I say"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1254.72,"endTime":1258.08,"body":"in the Book, churches in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1258.08,"endTime":1261.23,"body":"crisis of decline is that we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1258.08,"endTime":1261.23,"body":"have to wait with a watchword."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1261.3799999999999,"endTime":1263.45,"body":"And you know, this is what's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1261.3799999999999,"endTime":1263.45,"body":"kind of interesting thinking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1263.45,"endTime":1265.43,"body":"about mission startups and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1263.45,"endTime":1265.43,"body":"congregations and things like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1265.43,"endTime":1267.56,"body":"that. We always say you better"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1265.43,"endTime":1267.56,"body":"have a mission statement, like,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1267.71,"endTime":1270.44,"body":"what's going to make your church"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1267.71,"endTime":1270.44,"body":"different? How are you going to?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1270.47,"endTime":1272.81,"body":"How are you going to compete for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1270.47,"endTime":1272.81,"body":"all those resources and all that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1272.81,"endTime":1275.72,"body":"relevance in your community? And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1272.81,"endTime":1275.72,"body":"I'm not against that. I think it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1275.72,"endTime":1278.57,"body":"probably at some level, any"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1275.72,"endTime":1278.57,"body":"institutional structure needs"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1278.57,"endTime":1281.21,"body":"that, you know, churches and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1278.57,"endTime":1281.21,"body":"mission startups or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1281.36,"endTime":1285.59,"body":"institutional structures and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1281.36,"endTime":1285.59,"body":"they need that. But what's crazy"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1285.59,"endTime":1288.56,"body":"or what's wild is we've had a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1285.59,"endTime":1288.56,"body":"ton of mission statement work"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1288.56,"endTime":1291.83,"body":"and Protestantism over the last"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1288.56,"endTime":1291.83,"body":"30 years and almost no watchword"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1291.92,"endTime":1296.54,"body":"work by a watchword I mean, a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1291.92,"endTime":1296.54,"body":"kind of shorthand story that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1296.54,"endTime":1299.78,"body":"encompasses the life of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1296.54,"endTime":1299.78,"body":"community of how God has shown"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1299.78,"endTime":1304.67,"body":"up in this community. And a way"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1299.78,"endTime":1304.67,"body":"that this God has, has moved."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1305.12,"endTime":1309.65,"body":"And so we actually call our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1305.12,"endTime":1309.65,"body":"people I think, to wait, not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1309.8,"endTime":1313.31,"body":"with empty hands, but wait with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1309.8,"endTime":1313.31,"body":"the story that's really based in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1313.31,"endTime":1318.17,"body":"scripture. But also based in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1313.31,"endTime":1318.17,"body":"experience this community has"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1318.17,"endTime":1324.05,"body":"had of God moving and God"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1318.17,"endTime":1324.05,"body":"acting. So the kind of waiting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1324.05,"endTime":1326.72,"body":"really practically we have to do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1324.05,"endTime":1326.72,"body":"is with this kind of story with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1326.72,"endTime":1330.17,"body":"a watch where we're waiting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1326.72,"endTime":1330.17,"body":"attentive for God to act. When"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1330.17,"endTime":1333.08,"body":"I'm at an airport, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1330.17,"endTime":1333.08,"body":"waiting for anything except that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1333.11,"endTime":1336.59,"body":"gate agent to say, We're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1333.11,"endTime":1336.59,"body":"boarding now and we're giving"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1336.59,"endTime":1340.4,"body":"you 10,000 miles for for your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1336.59,"endTime":1340.4,"body":"inconvenience, like that's the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1340.4,"endTime":1342.47,"body":"only thing that could appease"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1340.4,"endTime":1342.47,"body":"me, you know, what I mean? is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1404.11,"endTime":1408.04,"body":"given, given something for free,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1404.11,"endTime":1408.04,"body":"were the kind of waiting I think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1408.04,"endTime":1412.63,"body":"God calls us to is to wait,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1408.04,"endTime":1412.63,"body":"really wait for, wait with a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1412.63,"endTime":1415.06,"body":"story, wait with a lens, wait"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1412.63,"endTime":1415.06,"body":"with a way of trying to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1415.12,"endTime":1418.09,"body":"interpret how this god wait,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1415.12,"endTime":1418.09,"body":"wait really on our toes waiting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1418.09,"endTime":1421.57,"body":"for this god to act and to move."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1418.09,"endTime":1421.57,"body":"But this is the imminent frame"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1421.57,"endTime":1424.24,"body":"thing if we don't think God"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1421.57,"endTime":1424.24,"body":"really acts and moves, if we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1424.24,"endTime":1428.23,"body":"think the Triune God is just an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1424.24,"endTime":1428.23,"body":"idea, and that one who acts in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1428.23,"endTime":1431.89,"body":"history and acts in the world,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1428.23,"endTime":1431.89,"body":"yeah, then you should just hurry"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1431.89,"endTime":1436.9,"body":"up and try to build a really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1431.89,"endTime":1436.9,"body":"religiously successful, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1436.9,"endTime":1440.71,"body":"know, church or initiative"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1436.9,"endTime":1440.71,"body":"inside of shrinking religious"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1440.71,"endTime":1443.38,"body":"marketplace. But if we really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1440.71,"endTime":1443.38,"body":"believe this, God acts and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1443.38,"endTime":1446.47,"body":"moves, and that the church is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1443.38,"endTime":1446.47,"body":"ultimately God's, and that God"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1446.47,"endTime":1449.95,"body":"is ministering in the world,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1446.47,"endTime":1449.95,"body":"then we wait on our toes for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1449.95,"endTime":1453.25,"body":"this god to act and move. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1449.95,"endTime":1453.25,"body":"sometimes we wait longer than"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1453.25,"endTime":1455.68,"body":"others. But there's a certain"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1453.25,"endTime":1455.68,"body":"kind of faithfulness, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1455.68,"endTime":1458.29,"body":"waiting is trying to see, trying"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1455.68,"endTime":1458.29,"body":"to hear,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1458.53,"endTime":1461.26,"body":"wow, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1458.53,"endTime":1461.26,"body":"love that and telling the story"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1461.26,"endTime":1464.86,"body":"of God and moving and acting in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1461.26,"endTime":1464.86,"body":"our community. And what that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1464.86,"endTime":1468.76,"body":"has, has been and, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1464.86,"endTime":1468.76,"body":"just I remember when we were"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1468.76,"endTime":1472.42,"body":"waiting to get pregnant and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1468.76,"endTime":1472.42,"body":"waiting for a son. And we were"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1472.42,"endTime":1477.25,"body":"trying so hard we, we lost a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1472.42,"endTime":1477.25,"body":"baby, very early miscarriage,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1477.28,"endTime":1482.08,"body":"and then it took five years. But"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1477.28,"endTime":1482.08,"body":"while we were waiting, there"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1482.08,"endTime":1485.23,"body":"were there were stories of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1482.08,"endTime":1485.23,"body":"others, that God was faithful in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1485.23,"endTime":1487.54,"body":"the midst of things, there were"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1485.23,"endTime":1487.54,"body":"stories that we were able to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1487.54,"endTime":1490.39,"body":"share, I was working on the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1487.54,"endTime":1490.39,"body":"border of Syria with Syrian"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1490.39,"endTime":1495.76,"body":"refugees during that time. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1490.39,"endTime":1495.76,"body":"so that was really the only time"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1495.79,"endTime":1499.57,"body":"of connection and empathy that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1495.79,"endTime":1499.57,"body":"we could have is saying, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1499.57,"endTime":1504.52,"body":"we're waiting on a child, we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1499.57,"endTime":1504.52,"body":"have had this loss here. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1504.52,"endTime":1508.03,"body":"we're waiting here. And we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1504.52,"endTime":1508.03,"body":"waiting for God to act and move"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1508.03,"endTime":1511.84,"body":"so that we could see new life."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1508.03,"endTime":1511.84,"body":"And they were in the same"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1511.84,"endTime":1515.65,"body":"position and the same"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1511.84,"endTime":1515.65,"body":"circumstances different one"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1515.65,"endTime":1520.27,"body":"where they they lost their home,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1515.65,"endTime":1520.27,"body":"and a lot of people lost family"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1520.27,"endTime":1522.64,"body":"members, and they're sitting,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1520.27,"endTime":1522.64,"body":"you know, as refugees, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1522.64,"endTime":1526.99,"body":"they're waiting for new life to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1522.64,"endTime":1526.99,"body":"come. And those were some of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1526.99,"endTime":1531.37,"body":"most powerful moments for us as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1526.99,"endTime":1531.37,"body":"we can actually relate one to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1531.37,"endTime":1536.05,"body":"another saying, Hey, we have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1531.37,"endTime":1536.05,"body":"this loss. But we know that God"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1536.05,"endTime":1539.32,"body":"has been faithful in the past,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1536.05,"endTime":1539.32,"body":"we have heard the stories of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1539.32,"endTime":1544.75,"body":"God's faithfulness, and we want"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1539.32,"endTime":1544.75,"body":"to see God work again. And we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1544.75,"endTime":1547.27,"body":"know that he's going to act at"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1544.75,"endTime":1547.27,"body":"some time, and we're going to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1547.27,"endTime":1553.0,"body":"see some life. And so that was a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1547.27,"endTime":1553.0,"body":"really powerful moment of us"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1553.03,"endTime":1559.03,"body":"waiting with one another. And so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1553.03,"endTime":1559.03,"body":"it's so helpful to us to have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1559.03,"endTime":1563.32,"body":"that. That thing to be able to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1559.03,"endTime":1563.32,"body":"do that with with other people"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1563.35,"endTime":1568.6,"body":"and not just try to be these"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1563.35,"endTime":1568.6,"body":"nice little Westerners coming in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1568.6,"endTime":1571.66,"body":"saying, I have all the answers,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1568.6,"endTime":1571.66,"body":"and I'm gonna make your life"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1571.66,"endTime":1572.65,"body":"great again."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1573.07,"endTime":1574.75,"body":"Yeah, well, that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1573.07,"endTime":1574.75,"body":"beautiful story."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1575.53,"endTime":1579.43,"body":"Thank you. Thank"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1575.53,"endTime":1579.43,"body":"you, but and so I think that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1580.36,"endTime":1585.58,"body":"because of the self and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1580.36,"endTime":1585.58,"body":"propagating the self, you say,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1585.61,"endTime":1590.98,"body":"you know, we become masochist."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1585.61,"endTime":1590.98,"body":"But really, a lot of things that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1590.98,"endTime":1594.13,"body":"what's happening now, I think,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1590.98,"endTime":1594.13,"body":"in culture is we get into the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1594.13,"endTime":1599.65,"body":"place of depression and anxiety."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1594.13,"endTime":1599.65,"body":"Because we're trying to say,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1600.07,"endTime":1604.42,"body":"Alright, I'm going to take care"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1600.07,"endTime":1604.42,"body":"of myself, and I really can't."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1604.78,"endTime":1608.17,"body":"And so I get depressed. I'm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1604.78,"endTime":1608.17,"body":"anxious. I'm not gonna be able"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1608.17,"endTime":1612.19,"body":"to make it through the day. How"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1608.17,"endTime":1612.19,"body":"can we deal with cultural"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1612.22,"endTime":1614.14,"body":"anxiety and depression in this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1612.22,"endTime":1614.14,"body":"age?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1615.1,"endTime":1620.92,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1615.1,"endTime":1620.92,"body":"really A huge question in there,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1620.95,"endTime":1624.58,"body":"one of the theorists that I deal"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1620.95,"endTime":1624.58,"body":"with, and I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1624.58,"endTime":1627.88,"body":"congregation book is a guy. It's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1624.58,"endTime":1627.88,"body":"a Parisian thinker named Alan"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1627.88,"endTime":1631.33,"body":"Erbert, which does not sound"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1627.88,"endTime":1631.33,"body":"very like Parisian like that you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1631.99,"endTime":1634.78,"body":"run into him on the streets of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1631.99,"endTime":1634.78,"body":"Paris or something. But you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1634.78,"endTime":1637.27,"body":"know, I guess that's what his"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1634.78,"endTime":1637.27,"body":"bio says. But he's written this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1637.27,"endTime":1641.98,"body":"really great book called The,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1637.27,"endTime":1641.98,"body":"the weariness of the self. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1642.31,"endTime":1645.91,"body":"it's, it's better and it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1642.31,"endTime":1645.91,"body":"French translation, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1645.91,"endTime":1651.46,"body":"going to actually say it in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1645.91,"endTime":1651.46,"body":"French and humiliate myself. But"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1651.46,"endTime":1657.49,"body":"the direct French translation"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1651.46,"endTime":1657.49,"body":"is, the fatigue of being"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1657.49,"endTime":1660.91,"body":"yourself is the title of this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1657.49,"endTime":1660.91,"body":"book, the direct translation,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1660.91,"endTime":1664.27,"body":"the fatigue of being yourself."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1660.91,"endTime":1664.27,"body":"And his point is that there is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1664.27,"endTime":1668.02,"body":"something about kind of late"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1664.27,"endTime":1668.02,"body":"20th century, late modern world,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1668.29,"endTime":1671.53,"body":"that depression has become the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1668.29,"endTime":1671.53,"body":"real ailment that we deal with."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1671.59,"endTime":1675.67,"body":"And it just becomes endemic and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1671.59,"endTime":1675.67,"body":"is everywhere across"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1675.94,"endTime":1678.79,"body":"particularly upwardly mobile"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1675.94,"endTime":1678.79,"body":"societies, that depression is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1678.79,"endTime":1681.97,"body":"just is there. And he thinks"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1678.79,"endTime":1681.97,"body":"what depression is, which I find"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1681.97,"endTime":1686.5,"body":"really fascinating is he does"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1681.97,"endTime":1686.5,"body":"not think it's a pathology of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1686.5,"endTime":1689.23,"body":"happiness, which is sometimes"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1686.5,"endTime":1689.23,"body":"how we think about it, like when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1689.23,"endTime":1691.63,"body":"you're depressed, you can't be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1689.23,"endTime":1691.63,"body":"happy, and isn't that terrible,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1691.81,"endTime":1695.17,"body":"isn't that he doesn't think that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1691.81,"endTime":1695.17,"body":"he thinks it's actually a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1695.53,"endTime":1700.3,"body":"ailment of change. And what what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1695.53,"endTime":1700.3,"body":"he thinks occurs is that there"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1700.3,"endTime":1703.54,"body":"becomes this demand in the self"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1700.3,"endTime":1703.54,"body":"to continue to perform, to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1703.54,"endTime":1708.46,"body":"continue to curate the self to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1703.54,"endTime":1708.46,"body":"continue to kind of assess the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1708.46,"endTime":1711.07,"body":"cells value next to all these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1708.46,"endTime":1711.07,"body":"other cells that are doing their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1711.07,"endTime":1714.13,"body":"own project that you're yourself"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1711.07,"endTime":1714.13,"body":"becomes its own project that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1714.13,"endTime":1717.43,"body":"you're tending to all the time."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1714.13,"endTime":1717.43,"body":"And when you run out of energy"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1717.43,"endTime":1721.66,"body":"for that, when you take too many"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1717.43,"endTime":1721.66,"body":"ELLs, as opposed to Wus on that,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1722.41,"endTime":1725.29,"body":"when you just don't have the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1722.41,"endTime":1725.29,"body":"energy to change and change"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1725.29,"endTime":1730.93,"body":"again, and keep up with all"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1725.29,"endTime":1730.93,"body":"this, that you find yourself in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1730.93,"endTime":1734.29,"body":"a kind of state of despondency,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1730.93,"endTime":1734.29,"body":"and in the state of, of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1734.29,"endTime":1737.62,"body":"depression. So there is this,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1734.29,"endTime":1737.62,"body":"there's this deep sense. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1737.62,"endTime":1740.95,"body":"I wish I had like practical"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1737.62,"endTime":1740.95,"body":"things that we can do, but from"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1740.95,"endTime":1744.88,"body":"a larger kind of congregational"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1740.95,"endTime":1744.88,"body":"perspective is we just have to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1744.91,"endTime":1748.99,"body":"recognize and we have to think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1744.91,"endTime":1748.99,"body":"beyond the performative self,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1748.99,"endTime":1752.29,"body":"like how do we think about the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1748.99,"endTime":1752.29,"body":"self in relation, this is,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1752.29,"endTime":1754.9,"body":"again, why I think the cross is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1752.29,"endTime":1754.9,"body":"so important that the self"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1754.9,"endTime":1759.37,"body":"really matters. But the self"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1754.9,"endTime":1759.37,"body":"finds itself by losing itself."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1759.52,"endTime":1761.74,"body":"And the self, you know, Paul"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1759.52,"endTime":1761.74,"body":"says, I no longer live, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1761.74,"endTime":1765.07,"body":"Christ lives in me that the self"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1761.74,"endTime":1765.07,"body":"that Paul knows is now the self"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1765.07,"endTime":1769.36,"body":"that is dead and made alive in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1765.07,"endTime":1769.36,"body":"Christ very different than I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1769.36,"endTime":1772.45,"body":"have to form, optimize myself,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1769.36,"endTime":1772.45,"body":"see how many likes I can get,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1772.48,"endTime":1776.65,"body":"right? You know, like, continue"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1772.48,"endTime":1776.65,"body":"to work on my resume, so I can"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1776.65,"endTime":1779.53,"body":"get another job and, and keep"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1776.65,"endTime":1779.53,"body":"advancing and going and going."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1779.53,"endTime":1781.78,"body":"And then I feel all this regret"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1779.53,"endTime":1781.78,"body":"and guilt because I, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1781.78,"endTime":1784.12,"body":"should have finished that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1781.78,"endTime":1784.12,"body":"degree, or I should have, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1784.12,"endTime":1787.33,"body":"know, I should have done this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1784.12,"endTime":1787.33,"body":"with my life. Or if I was just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1787.33,"endTime":1791.02,"body":"more interesting and could"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1787.33,"endTime":1791.02,"body":"start, you know, start a podcast"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1791.02,"endTime":1795.04,"body":"that everyone listened to, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1791.02,"endTime":1795.04,"body":"know, this podcast, then then,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1795.07,"endTime":1797.95,"body":"you know, then then I would be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1795.07,"endTime":1797.95,"body":"doing well, or, you know, you go"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1797.95,"endTime":1800.17,"body":"to a dinner party, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1797.95,"endTime":1800.17,"body":"everyone's talking about New"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1800.17,"endTime":1802.48,"body":"York Times articles, and you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1800.17,"endTime":1802.48,"body":"like, why can't I be the kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1802.48,"endTime":1804.85,"body":"self who reads the New York"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1802.48,"endTime":1804.85,"body":"Times, you're like, I don't have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1804.85,"endTime":1809.26,"body":"time for that. And you just keep"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1804.85,"endTime":1809.26,"body":"up, you know, everyone's talking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1809.26,"endTime":1811.6,"body":"about how they ride their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1809.26,"endTime":1811.6,"body":"peloton bikes, and you're like,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1811.6,"endTime":1815.2,"body":"Man, I can't take a walk around"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1811.6,"endTime":1815.2,"body":"the block. And so you can start"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1815.2,"endTime":1818.35,"body":"to feel really guilty that your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1815.2,"endTime":1818.35,"body":"performance is bad. So there is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1818.35,"endTime":1821.56,"body":"this way, we have to kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1818.35,"endTime":1821.56,"body":"think about how the self really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1821.56,"endTime":1826.03,"body":"knows itself in these kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1821.56,"endTime":1826.03,"body":"vulnerable moments of confession"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1826.03,"endTime":1830.08,"body":"and surrender. But I also really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1826.03,"endTime":1830.08,"body":"worry that that fatigue, that to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1830.08,"endTime":1833.02,"body":"fatigue, to be yourself and get"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1830.08,"endTime":1833.02,"body":"imposed on the church itself."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1833.05,"endTime":1835.81,"body":"Yeah. And I think we have a lot"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1833.05,"endTime":1835.81,"body":"of churches. So I've talked to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1835.81,"endTime":1839.38,"body":"pastors around the country, who"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1835.81,"endTime":1839.38,"body":"they would say that their church"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1839.38,"endTime":1842.14,"body":"is depressed, like not the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1839.38,"endTime":1842.14,"body":"people in the church. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1842.14,"endTime":1844.3,"body":"there are people in their church"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1842.14,"endTime":1844.3,"body":"that feel that but maybe not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1844.3,"endTime":1848.68,"body":"everybody, maybe not, maybe not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1844.3,"endTime":1848.68,"body":"even, you know, 50%, or 30%. But"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1848.68,"endTime":1852.58,"body":"the church as an entity as a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1848.68,"endTime":1852.58,"body":"kind of collective reality just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1852.58,"endTime":1857.08,"body":"feels depressed, like people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1852.58,"endTime":1857.08,"body":"just don't have the energy to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1858.16,"endTime":1861.37,"body":"How about and I think a lot of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1858.16,"endTime":1861.37,"body":"pastors after the pandemic, my"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1861.37,"endTime":1863.86,"body":"wife is actually a pastor of a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1861.37,"endTime":1863.86,"body":"small church. And she feels that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1863.86,"endTime":1867.25,"body":"like, the whole system of people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1863.86,"endTime":1867.25,"body":"kind of pulling on the rope"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1867.25,"endTime":1871.15,"body":"together, that all got"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1867.25,"endTime":1871.15,"body":"interrupted. And now since"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1871.39,"endTime":1874.57,"body":"coming back from the pandemic,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1871.39,"endTime":1874.57,"body":"she's had to do way more work"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1874.6,"endTime":1878.26,"body":"than she did before. Because"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1874.6,"endTime":1878.26,"body":"people just are out of practice"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1878.26,"endTime":1882.49,"body":"people, people are exhausted."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1878.26,"endTime":1882.49,"body":"And people people kind of feel"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1882.49,"endTime":1887.8,"body":"like, yeah, they feel there's a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1882.49,"endTime":1887.8,"body":"kind of depression that hovers"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1887.8,"endTime":1890.41,"body":"over them. So that's one of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1887.8,"endTime":1890.41,"body":"things I really worry about as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1890.41,"endTime":1892.96,"body":"we kind of think about how the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1890.41,"endTime":1892.96,"body":"church needs to change to keep"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1892.96,"endTime":1895.69,"body":"up. So we have to be very"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1892.96,"endTime":1895.69,"body":"careful. And if we can't learn"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1895.69,"endTime":1899.53,"body":"to wait and wait on God and have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1895.69,"endTime":1899.53,"body":"a kind of horizon that we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1899.53,"endTime":1903.1,"body":"seeking for God's own act and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1899.53,"endTime":1903.1,"body":"being that it will lead us to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1903.1,"endTime":1906.91,"body":"just try to do more with less,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1903.1,"endTime":1906.91,"body":"and try to do more with less"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1907.06,"endTime":1910.51,"body":"will turn us into performative"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1907.06,"endTime":1910.51,"body":"congregations that will"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1910.54,"endTime":1914.41,"body":"eventually burn us out and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1910.54,"endTime":1914.41,"body":"depress us and we'll be too"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1914.41,"endTime":1917.92,"body":"fatigued to be church which"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1914.41,"endTime":1917.92,"body":"seems to be to me at deeply"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1917.92,"endTime":1919.09,"body":"theological problem."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1921.22,"endTime":1923.38,"body":"That's a big"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1921.22,"endTime":1923.38,"body":"problem. It's a really big"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1923.38,"endTime":1926.89,"body":"problem to have. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1923.38,"endTime":1926.89,"body":"it's not the problem of trying"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1926.89,"endTime":1930.22,"body":"to keep up in our accelerated"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1926.89,"endTime":1930.22,"body":"age, like we're accelerating,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1930.22,"endTime":1933.07,"body":"we're getting faster and faster,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1930.22,"endTime":1933.07,"body":"and there's more change. So that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1933.07,"endTime":1936.07,"body":"means that we're more fatigued,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1933.07,"endTime":1936.07,"body":"right? That means that we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1936.07,"endTime":1939.13,"body":"trying to perform more that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1936.07,"endTime":1939.13,"body":"we're changing more quickly."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1939.13,"endTime":1943.66,"body":"We're changing every, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1939.13,"endTime":1943.66,"body":"six months now, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1943.66,"endTime":1948.46,"body":"we have people that I'm saying,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1943.66,"endTime":1948.46,"body":"hey, you know, I was at a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1948.46,"endTime":1952.06,"body":"friend's house last week in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1948.46,"endTime":1952.06,"body":"Denver, and she's been asking"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1952.06,"endTime":1957.73,"body":"all of our friends, can you? Do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1952.06,"endTime":1957.73,"body":"you have the energy? Can you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1957.73,"endTime":1961.54,"body":"plan for this fall? Are you able"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1957.73,"endTime":1961.54,"body":"to actually have plans this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1961.54,"endTime":1964.99,"body":"fall? And she said, almost"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1961.54,"endTime":1964.99,"body":"everybody, they're all ministry,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1964.99,"endTime":1970.45,"body":"pastors, some sort of ministry"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1964.99,"endTime":1970.45,"body":"people. And almost entirely"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1970.45,"endTime":1974.17,"body":"every single one of them said, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1970.45,"endTime":1974.17,"body":"can't plan I have to go week by"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1974.17,"endTime":1979.09,"body":"week. As because we don't, we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1974.17,"endTime":1979.09,"body":"know that things are going to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1979.09,"endTime":1982.36,"body":"change so fast, that we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1979.09,"endTime":1982.36,"body":"already fatigued. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1982.36,"endTime":1987.46,"body":"know if something is going to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1982.36,"endTime":1987.46,"body":"change this fall, like people"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1987.46,"endTime":1991.57,"body":"just have a sense, like, oh, the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1987.46,"endTime":1991.57,"body":"world is gonna be different than"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1991.57,"endTime":1996.94,"body":"it is right now. Or that? I'm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1991.57,"endTime":1996.94,"body":"done. Like, I have too much"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1996.94,"endTime":1997.6,"body":"fatigue."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1998.02,"endTime":2000.93,"body":"Yeah, yeah. It's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":1998.02,"endTime":2000.93,"body":"really hard. It's really hard to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2000.93,"endTime":2005.7,"body":"know. You know, it feels really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2000.93,"endTime":2005.7,"body":"hard to know, maybe we all do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2005.7,"endTime":2008.73,"body":"sense that. Or maybe we're kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2005.7,"endTime":2008.73,"body":"of traumatized by it all that we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2008.73,"endTime":2013.5,"body":"think, gonna change next week,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2008.73,"endTime":2013.5,"body":"you know, like, yeah, I don't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2013.5,"endTime":2017.07,"body":"know, how you felt around just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2013.5,"endTime":2017.07,"body":"even like planning, vacations"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2017.07,"endTime":2019.56,"body":"and getaways, it's like, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2017.07,"endTime":2019.56,"body":"know, you used to be able to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2019.56,"endTime":2023.43,"body":"really depend on that weren't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2019.56,"endTime":2023.43,"body":"going unless someone tests"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2023.43,"endTime":2028.29,"body":"positive. You know, and so we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2023.43,"endTime":2028.29,"body":"all kind of feel that, but I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2028.29,"endTime":2031.68,"body":"just think people are just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2028.29,"endTime":2031.68,"body":"really deeply tired and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2031.68,"endTime":2035.97,"body":"fatigued. And I think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2031.68,"endTime":2035.97,"body":"most congregations in ministry"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2035.97,"endTime":2039.75,"body":"life, the paid ministry person"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2035.97,"endTime":2039.75,"body":"has had to carry that way. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2039.75,"endTime":2042.78,"body":"they're already exhausted, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2039.75,"endTime":2042.78,"body":"they're fatigued to come into"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2042.78,"endTime":2048.24,"body":"this, but they're there lay"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2042.78,"endTime":2048.24,"body":"leadership is just also"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2048.24,"endTime":2053.0099999999998,"body":"exhausted, and also fatigued."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2048.24,"endTime":2053.0099999999998,"body":"And yeah, it becomes a, it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2053.0099999999998,"endTime":2053.97,"body":"becomes a big problem."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2054.24,"endTime":2056.7599999999998,"body":"So is there"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2054.24,"endTime":2056.7599999999998,"body":"anything that you have? You've"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2056.7599999999998,"endTime":2059.73,"body":"seen as people are wrestling"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2056.7599999999998,"endTime":2059.73,"body":"with this, that we could cut"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2059.73,"endTime":2063.63,"body":"through that the fatigue and get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2059.73,"endTime":2063.63,"body":"to the root problem?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2064.65,"endTime":2068.43,"body":"Yeah, well, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2064.65,"endTime":2068.43,"body":"yeah, there's no easy answer."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2068.43,"endTime":2072.0899999999997,"body":"But the big thing we have to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2068.43,"endTime":2072.0899999999997,"body":"guard from, I think, is not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2072.0899999999997,"endTime":2075.75,"body":"allowing all our relationships."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2072.0899999999997,"endTime":2075.75,"body":"And this, this even comes when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2075.75,"endTime":2078.54,"body":"you feel like oh, my gosh, no"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2075.75,"endTime":2078.54,"body":"one's helping out and we have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2078.66,"endTime":2081.69,"body":"Sunday school to do or we said,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2078.66,"endTime":2081.69,"body":"we're going to do this thing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2081.69,"endTime":2085.5299999999997,"body":"And now no one's signing up, is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2081.69,"endTime":2085.5299999999997,"body":"we just have to really guard"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2085.5299999999997,"endTime":2089.2799999999997,"body":"against instrumentalizing every"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2085.5299999999997,"endTime":2089.2799999999997,"body":"relationship, you know, so in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2089.2799999999997,"endTime":2091.65,"body":"other words, like, I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2089.2799999999997,"endTime":2091.65,"body":"call these people, and I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2091.65,"endTime":2095.0099999999998,"body":"see how they're doing and I'm"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2091.65,"endTime":2095.0099999999998,"body":"gonna take him to coffee,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2095.19,"endTime":2099.24,"body":"because I really, really, really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2095.19,"endTime":2099.24,"body":"need them to teach fifth grade"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2099.24,"endTime":2101.52,"body":"Sunday school, you know what I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2099.24,"endTime":2101.52,"body":"mean? Like we're every"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2101.52,"endTime":2106.02,"body":"relationship we have is to kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2101.52,"endTime":2106.02,"body":"of when, when something falls"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2106.0499999999997,"endTime":2109.62,"body":"down the road, and I think we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2106.0499999999997,"endTime":2109.62,"body":"have to be really careful of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2109.62,"endTime":2113.25,"body":"that because I think that it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2109.62,"endTime":2113.25,"body":"what burns people out and burns"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2113.28,"endTime":2116.4,"body":"us out. And so you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2113.28,"endTime":2116.4,"body":"again, that quote, heart my"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2116.4,"endTime":2118.8900000000003,"body":"Rosa, one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2116.4,"endTime":2118.8900000000003,"body":"I've tried to dialogue with his"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2118.8900000000003,"endTime":2123.87,"body":"roses point is in this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2118.8900000000003,"endTime":2123.87,"body":"accelerated age, it really does"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2123.87,"endTime":2126.81,"body":"lead us to alienation and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2123.87,"endTime":2126.81,"body":"alienates us from one another."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2126.84,"endTime":2130.6800000000003,"body":"it alienates us from God it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2126.84,"endTime":2130.6800000000003,"body":"alienates us from, from things"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2130.6800000000003,"endTime":2134.76,"body":"that speak to us like art and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2130.6800000000003,"endTime":2134.76,"body":"beauty and you know, things like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2134.76,"endTime":2137.31,"body":"that, we just miss it all"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2134.76,"endTime":2137.31,"body":"because we're just going too"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2137.31,"endTime":2140.58,"body":"fast and, and everything feels"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2137.31,"endTime":2140.58,"body":"kind of lifeless. And this is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2140.58,"endTime":2142.9500000000003,"body":"that depression thing again, he"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2140.58,"endTime":2142.9500000000003,"body":"says, like, you know, it's, it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2142.9500000000003,"endTime":2145.65,"body":"can feel like, especially when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2142.9500000000003,"endTime":2145.65,"body":"you're depressed, you feel like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2145.65,"endTime":2148.44,"body":"this. But even when you're just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2145.65,"endTime":2148.44,"body":"know you're being burned out,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2148.4700000000003,"endTime":2151.17,"body":"you feel like the Livewire"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2148.4700000000003,"endTime":2151.17,"body":"between you and the world has"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2151.17,"endTime":2154.86,"body":"been cut off. Like, there's,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2151.17,"endTime":2154.86,"body":"there's nothing there that you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2154.86,"endTime":2159.0,"body":"just everything feels dull. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2154.86,"endTime":2159.0,"body":"so he thinks that though, he"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2159.0,"endTime":2161.31,"body":"thinks we do have these other"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2159.0,"endTime":2161.31,"body":"kinds of relationships in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2161.31,"endTime":2163.62,"body":"world that aren't just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2161.31,"endTime":2163.62,"body":"instrumental, and he calls them"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2163.62,"endTime":2165.78,"body":"resonance, these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2163.62,"endTime":2165.78,"body":"experiences we have where we,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2165.99,"endTime":2169.08,"body":"where we feel time becomes full,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2165.99,"endTime":2169.08,"body":"and we feel connected to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2169.08,"endTime":2171.84,"body":"something bigger than us, we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2169.08,"endTime":2171.84,"body":"feel actually taken out of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2171.84,"endTime":2174.48,"body":"ourselves, where our self"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2171.84,"endTime":2174.48,"body":"doesn't really matter. But our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2174.48,"endTime":2177.3,"body":"self is also deeply included,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2174.48,"endTime":2177.3,"body":"you know, like it's, it's this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2177.3,"endTime":2179.49,"body":"kind of sense that there's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2177.3,"endTime":2179.49,"body":"something more than the self but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2179.49,"endTime":2183.12,"body":"the self also is, is treasured"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2179.49,"endTime":2183.12,"body":"the self is relativized and yet"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2183.36,"endTime":2186.15,"body":"honored in some way, like we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2183.36,"endTime":2186.15,"body":"have these experiences when we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2186.15,"endTime":2189.33,"body":"see something beautiful or, or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2186.15,"endTime":2189.33,"body":"when someone really cares for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2189.33,"endTime":2195.21,"body":"us. And, and so I guess, I don't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2189.33,"endTime":2195.21,"body":"know exactly how to do this. But"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2195.45,"endTime":2198.75,"body":"there's got to be a way that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2195.45,"endTime":2198.75,"body":"what the kind of action we think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2198.81,"endTime":2202.95,"body":"about kind of forming our people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2198.81,"endTime":2202.95,"body":"into and that we take on as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2202.95,"endTime":2205.62,"body":"leaders in ministry is more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2202.95,"endTime":2205.62,"body":"resonance action than"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2205.62,"endTime":2209.91,"body":"acceleration action. And the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2205.62,"endTime":2209.91,"body":"props. The pastors that have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2209.91,"endTime":2212.01,"body":"gotten the most props, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2209.91,"endTime":2212.01,"body":"ministry leaders that have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2212.01,"endTime":2214.62,"body":"gotten the most Pat's on the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2212.01,"endTime":2214.62,"body":"back tend to be those who have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2214.68,"endTime":2217.02,"body":"written the wave of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2214.68,"endTime":2217.02,"body":"acceleration, not that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2217.02,"endTime":2221.52,"body":"unnecessary. Verily, in small"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2217.02,"endTime":2221.52,"body":"ways, in subtle ways, created"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2221.52,"endTime":2225.21,"body":"the this environment of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2221.52,"endTime":2225.21,"body":"resonance in their in their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2225.24,"endTime":2229.11,"body":"community. But if we can we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2225.24,"endTime":2229.11,"body":"become so busy that we can even"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2229.77,"endTime":2234.12,"body":"hear a poem speak to us, or the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2229.77,"endTime":2234.12,"body":"beauty of a five year old who"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2234.12,"endTime":2237.6,"body":"asks a question, then there"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2234.12,"endTime":2237.6,"body":"inside the imminent frame, there"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2237.6,"endTime":2241.2,"body":"is no way we'll be able to hear"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2237.6,"endTime":2241.2,"body":"the living God speak, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2241.2,"endTime":2244.68,"body":"so, part of being formed to hear"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2241.2,"endTime":2244.68,"body":"the living God speak to us,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2244.68,"endTime":2247.35,"body":"again, is to have a different"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2244.68,"endTime":2247.35,"body":"kind of relationship to the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2247.35,"endTime":2251.49,"body":"world. If God is speaking within"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2247.35,"endTime":2251.49,"body":"the world, then, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2251.49,"endTime":2253.86,"body":"I said, watch where it makes us"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2251.49,"endTime":2253.86,"body":"attentive to how God might be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2253.86,"endTime":2257.22,"body":"acting and moving in the world,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2253.86,"endTime":2257.22,"body":"then we need to engage the world"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2257.22,"endTime":2260.58,"body":"not as a kind of innate object"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2257.22,"endTime":2260.58,"body":"we're trying to extract"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2260.58,"endTime":2265.89,"body":"resources out of, but as a as a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2260.58,"endTime":2265.89,"body":"place to connect and connect"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2265.89,"endTime":2270.21,"body":"deeply with one another, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2265.89,"endTime":2270.21,"body":"with deeper stories and with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2270.21,"endTime":2274.05,"body":"beauty and with truth. And I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2270.21,"endTime":2274.05,"body":"think we need to point our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2274.05,"endTime":2277.02,"body":"people to that. And that will"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2274.05,"endTime":2277.02,"body":"mean some slowing down, it will"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2277.02,"endTime":2281.25,"body":"mean some slowing down. But"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2277.02,"endTime":2281.25,"body":"slowing down without resonance"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2281.28,"endTime":2284.58,"body":"won't be enough, either. We've"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2281.28,"endTime":2284.58,"body":"all had that experience where we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2284.58,"endTime":2288.03,"body":"got on vacation and slow down."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2284.58,"endTime":2288.03,"body":"And then it just feels worse,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2288.03,"endTime":2292.59,"body":"because that inbox is just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2288.03,"endTime":2292.59,"body":"following emails. And you now"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2292.59,"endTime":2295.53,"body":"have to work three times harder"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2292.59,"endTime":2295.53,"body":"than next week after your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2295.53,"endTime":2299.49,"body":"vacation to make up for the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2295.53,"endTime":2299.49,"body":"vacation you took you know, why"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2299.64,"endTime":2303.03,"body":"really rich people who can go"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2299.64,"endTime":2303.03,"body":"really fast, just bring their,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2303.36,"endTime":2307.29,"body":"their administrator along with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2303.36,"endTime":2307.29,"body":"him on every get behind those"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2307.29,"endTime":2311.16,"body":"emails, but most of us can't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2307.29,"endTime":2311.16,"body":"afford That's right. Ministry,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2311.25,"endTime":2313.26,"body":"let alone taking them on our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2311.25,"endTime":2313.26,"body":"vacation."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2313.47,"endTime":2315.81,"body":"Exactly,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2313.47,"endTime":2315.81,"body":"exactly. And so you know, as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2315.81,"endTime":2318.66,"body":"they're walking, have you found"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2315.81,"endTime":2318.66,"body":"a posture that we could take to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2318.66,"endTime":2323.64,"body":"be able to go slow in this fast"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2318.66,"endTime":2323.64,"body":"world where we actually can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2323.64,"endTime":2330.39,"body":"engage with others engage the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2323.64,"endTime":2330.39,"body":"culture, but not get burnt out?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2330.42,"endTime":2333.6,"body":"By trying to perform enough to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2330.42,"endTime":2333.6,"body":"keep up?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2334.11,"endTime":2336.63,"body":"Yeah, you had a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2334.11,"endTime":2336.63,"body":"posture, I think that we need to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2336.63,"endTime":2339.81,"body":"take in this series is going to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2336.63,"endTime":2339.81,"body":"seem very positivistic. And some"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2339.84,"endTime":2342.9,"body":"people will probably roll their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2339.84,"endTime":2342.9,"body":"eyes. But we do really have to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2342.9,"endTime":2348.06,"body":"learn again to pray, and what it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2342.9,"endTime":2348.06,"body":"means to be people who pray, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2348.78,"endTime":2350.73,"body":"again, and not allowing our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2348.78,"endTime":2350.73,"body":"prayers to become"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2350.73,"endTime":2353.91,"body":"instrumentalized. Like, let's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2350.73,"endTime":2353.91,"body":"pray this way. So God does this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2353.91,"endTime":2357.12,"body":"for us. Let's get a leverage our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2353.91,"endTime":2357.12,"body":"prayer prayers and make God do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2357.12,"endTime":2361.38,"body":"this. But what does it mean to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2357.12,"endTime":2361.38,"body":"actually pray, to commune with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2361.38,"endTime":2367.44,"body":"God to wait in B? And I just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2361.38,"endTime":2367.44,"body":"think that leadership right now"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2367.44,"endTime":2371.01,"body":"what it really needs to be in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2367.44,"endTime":2371.01,"body":"the context of our moment, is it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2371.01,"endTime":2373.14,"body":"really needs to be at the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2371.01,"endTime":2373.14,"body":"center? How do you teach your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2373.14,"endTime":2376.2,"body":"people to pray? Yeah, what does"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2373.14,"endTime":2376.2,"body":"it mean to teach your people to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2376.2,"endTime":2381.18,"body":"pray? How does how does your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2376.2,"endTime":2381.18,"body":"community and even as it gathers"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2381.18,"endTime":2384.6,"body":"become a place of prayer, where"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2381.18,"endTime":2384.6,"body":"we tell our stories as prayers,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2384.6,"endTime":2387.72,"body":"and we pray our stories, and it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2384.6,"endTime":2387.72,"body":"really is about kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2387.72,"endTime":2391.95,"body":"gathering in telling stories of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2387.72,"endTime":2391.95,"body":"how God has acted moved in our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2391.95,"endTime":2395.7,"body":"lives or, or how we need to act"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2391.95,"endTime":2395.7,"body":"to move and we feel like God has"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2395.7,"endTime":2398.73,"body":"abandoned us that we're lost. I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2395.7,"endTime":2398.73,"body":"mean, there's places for lament"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2398.94,"endTime":2403.83,"body":"in these in this too. But again,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2398.94,"endTime":2403.83,"body":"that's a that's a kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2403.89,"endTime":2409.26,"body":"disposition of prayer to have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2403.89,"endTime":2409.26,"body":"what it means to, to narrate our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2409.26,"endTime":2412.86,"body":"experiences. And, yeah, I know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2409.26,"endTime":2412.86,"body":"it seems really kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2412.86,"endTime":2416.22,"body":"simplistic, but I think it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2412.86,"endTime":2416.22,"body":"really important, if anything,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2416.73,"endTime":2421.17,"body":"what I do as a leader in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2416.73,"endTime":2421.17,"body":"ministry, what I do as a pastor"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2421.17,"endTime":2425.55,"body":"is I teach people to pray, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2421.17,"endTime":2425.55,"body":"invite people to pray. I don't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2425.55,"endTime":2429.3,"body":"know, I know, it probably is not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2425.55,"endTime":2429.3,"body":"the sexiest thing ever. But I do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2429.3,"endTime":2433.68,"body":"think it's a way to move inside"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2429.3,"endTime":2433.68,"body":"the imminent frame to kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2433.68,"endTime":2439.08,"body":"escaped from that acceleration"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2433.68,"endTime":2439.08,"body":"and to seek residence and to see"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2439.08,"endTime":2440.61,"body":"and hear the living God move"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2439.08,"endTime":2440.61,"body":"again."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2440.91,"endTime":2444.54,"body":"Yeah. And, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2440.91,"endTime":2444.54,"body":"know, we can't just teach people"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2444.54,"endTime":2448.56,"body":"to pray, we have to be people of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2444.54,"endTime":2448.56,"body":"prayer ourselves. And if we just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2448.56,"endTime":2452.76,"body":"go out and say, I want to get my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2448.56,"endTime":2452.76,"body":"congregation, my people to pray"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2452.76,"endTime":2455.79,"body":"more, I'm gonna teach them how"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2452.76,"endTime":2455.79,"body":"to pray and you're not living at"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2455.79,"endTime":2460.14,"body":"yourself, and you're not a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2455.79,"endTime":2460.14,"body":"person of prayer. That's not"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2460.14,"endTime":2464.19,"body":"going to work. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2460.14,"endTime":2464.19,"body":"people will feel that as well."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2464.46,"endTime":2468.99,"body":"And that's also that's also a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2464.46,"endTime":2468.99,"body":"performative type of thing. When"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2468.99,"endTime":2471.18,"body":"you're, we're saying, Hey, I'm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2468.99,"endTime":2471.18,"body":"gonna teach you, I'm gonna do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2471.18,"endTime":2474.51,"body":"this, you're gonna get it. I'm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2471.18,"endTime":2474.51,"body":"gonna outsource prayer. And we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2474.51,"endTime":2475.74,"body":"can't outsource prayer."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2476.1,"endTime":2478.74,"body":"Right? Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2476.1,"endTime":2478.74,"body":"mean, I don't think, I don't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2478.74,"endTime":2481.11,"body":"know who would admit this, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2478.74,"endTime":2481.11,"body":"probably so many pastors have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2481.11,"endTime":2483.9,"body":"felt in the last few decades,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2481.11,"endTime":2483.9,"body":"like, I don't have any time for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2483.9,"endTime":2489.03,"body":"prayer. Like, there's no time to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2483.9,"endTime":2489.03,"body":"pray. And I always try to tell"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2489.03,"endTime":2492.21,"body":"my own students, which you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2489.03,"endTime":2492.21,"body":"I don't know they probably feel"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2492.24,"endTime":2495.0,"body":"under the burden of this but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2492.24,"endTime":2495.0,"body":"Gregory the Great that the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2495.12,"endTime":2500.25,"body":"bishop in the early in the early"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2495.12,"endTime":2500.25,"body":"Christian tradition, used to say"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2500.25,"endTime":2503.1,"body":"to his, as his priest as he was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2500.25,"endTime":2503.1,"body":"as he was ordaining them, he"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2503.1,"endTime":2506.19,"body":"said, You better not, whatever"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2503.1,"endTime":2506.19,"body":"you do, now that I'm ordaining"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2506.19,"endTime":2509.16,"body":"you, you're going into the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2506.19,"endTime":2509.16,"body":"ministry, you better not become"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2509.16,"endTime":2513.63,"body":"too busy. Because your job a big"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2509.16,"endTime":2513.63,"body":"part of your job is to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2513.63,"endTime":2516.99,"body":"contemplate the Trinity. So"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2513.63,"endTime":2516.99,"body":"don't get too busy so you can"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2516.99,"endTime":2519.51,"body":"constantly Like the Trinity, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2516.99,"endTime":2519.51,"body":"I always say to my students,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2519.51,"endTime":2522.75,"body":"like, try that with your next"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2519.51,"endTime":2522.75,"body":"Personnel Committee, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2522.75,"endTime":2525.72,"body":"need to, I need about 1520 hours"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2522.75,"endTime":2525.72,"body":"a week. So I can just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2525.75,"endTime":2528.93,"body":"contemplate the Trinity. And,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2525.75,"endTime":2528.93,"body":"you know, you'd get some very"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2528.93,"endTime":2532.2,"body":"strange looks, you know, from"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2528.93,"endTime":2532.2,"body":"your denominational officials"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2532.2,"endTime":2536.91,"body":"and from your own congregational"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2532.2,"endTime":2536.91,"body":"Personnel Committee, but maybe"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2536.91,"endTime":2540.63,"body":"it's not that far away from what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2536.91,"endTime":2540.63,"body":"we actually need to be in this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2540.63,"endTime":2544.14,"body":"place to contemplate and pray. I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2540.63,"endTime":2544.14,"body":"don't know, I think I think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2544.14,"endTime":2546.96,"body":"there's, I think there's a time"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2544.14,"endTime":2546.96,"body":"back to a more mystical"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2546.96,"endTime":2551.37,"body":"experience here of, of, of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2546.96,"endTime":2551.37,"body":"seeking for God and in prayer,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2551.4,"endTime":2554.13,"body":"and in some ways in silence."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2551.4,"endTime":2554.13,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2554.58,"endTime":2556.59,"body":"You know, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2554.58,"endTime":2556.59,"body":"think that's, that's pretty"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2556.59,"endTime":2559.86,"body":"huge, and key centering prayer"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2556.59,"endTime":2559.86,"body":"of, you know, just sitting in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2559.86,"endTime":2566.01,"body":"silence with God, and just being"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2559.86,"endTime":2566.01,"body":"there with him, is, we often"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2566.01,"endTime":2569.31,"body":"think that, hey, I'm gonna have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2566.01,"endTime":2569.31,"body":"to find the words to say, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2569.31,"endTime":2572.16,"body":"I'm gonna say, I gotta say, this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2569.31,"endTime":2572.16,"body":"thing, this thing, this thing,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2572.16,"endTime":2576.75,"body":"and I need to get God to act, or"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2572.16,"endTime":2576.75,"body":"instead of saying, Okay, I just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2576.75,"endTime":2581.88,"body":"need to shut up and be in his"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2576.75,"endTime":2581.88,"body":"presence, and let him ministered"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2581.88,"endTime":2585.84,"body":"to me, in the midst of whatever"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2581.88,"endTime":2585.84,"body":"I'm going through, and I don't"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2585.84,"endTime":2588.69,"body":"need to say the words, there's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2585.84,"endTime":2588.69,"body":"no words that I need to say, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2588.69,"endTime":2591.09,"body":"just need to be with God, in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2588.69,"endTime":2591.09,"body":"midst of this."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2591.51,"endTime":2593.16,"body":"Yeah. And that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2591.51,"endTime":2593.16,"body":"exactly where you're kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2593.16,"endTime":2595.98,"body":"getting with your point that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2593.16,"endTime":2595.98,"body":"it's how we form ourselves to,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2596.28,"endTime":2600.39,"body":"if prayer is instrumental, then"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2596.28,"endTime":2600.39,"body":"you can just go to a bookshelf"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2600.45,"endTime":2604.68,"body":"and give people a curriculum to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2600.45,"endTime":2604.68,"body":"pray. But if prayer is kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2604.68,"endTime":2609.69,"body":"silence before the God who is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2604.68,"endTime":2609.69,"body":"God, you can't teach people how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2609.69,"endTime":2613.5,"body":"to sit in silence If you don't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2609.69,"endTime":2613.5,"body":"do it, and you know, it is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2613.5,"endTime":2616.65,"body":"practicing with people. And you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2613.5,"endTime":2616.65,"body":"know, how do we practice that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2616.65,"endTime":2620.79,"body":"with people? And so, but again,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2616.65,"endTime":2620.79,"body":"I understand why everyone feels"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2620.79,"endTime":2626.7,"body":"like I How would I have time to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2620.79,"endTime":2626.7,"body":"even sit in? And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2626.7,"endTime":2630.12,"body":"listen for God and, and sit in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2626.7,"endTime":2630.12,"body":"God's presence, but I think it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2630.12,"endTime":2632.49,"body":"really necessary now more than"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2630.12,"endTime":2632.49,"body":"ever. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2632.52,"endTime":2635.25,"body":"that's huge."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2632.52,"endTime":2635.25,"body":"It's huge. You have you have a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2635.25,"endTime":2639.69,"body":"new book coming out soon. All"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2635.25,"endTime":2639.69,"body":"right. Tell me anything. What"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2639.69,"endTime":2642.57,"body":"are you you're working on? Now?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2639.69,"endTime":2642.57,"body":"You have a new book every every"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2642.57,"endTime":2643.41,"body":"couple of months, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2646.02,"endTime":2649.44,"body":"Well, let me be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2646.02,"endTime":2649.44,"body":"quick. But in sickness, I will"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2649.44,"endTime":2653.85,"body":"admit that I tell my wife, I'm,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2649.44,"endTime":2653.85,"body":"I'm a good existentialist in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2653.85,"endTime":2656.7,"body":"certain ways, like I'm miserable"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2653.85,"endTime":2656.7,"body":"when I'm writing, but I'm more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2656.7,"endTime":2661.14,"body":"miserable when I'm not. So it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2656.7,"endTime":2661.14,"body":"really more for me than anyone"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2661.14,"endTime":2664.23,"body":"else. I'm just very thankful"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2661.14,"endTime":2664.23,"body":"that anyone has read them at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2664.23,"endTime":2666.39,"body":"all. But yeah, there's a book"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2664.23,"endTime":2666.39,"body":"coming out at the end of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2666.39,"endTime":2669.27,"body":"September, I think, early"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2666.39,"endTime":2669.27,"body":"October, called the church after"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2669.27,"endTime":2672.78,"body":"innovation, which is really kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2669.27,"endTime":2672.78,"body":"of, well, it is continuing this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2672.81,"endTime":2675.69,"body":"ministry in the secular Age"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2672.81,"endTime":2675.69,"body":"series. It's looking at kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2675.69,"endTime":2679.98,"body":"work, and how, what it means to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2675.69,"endTime":2679.98,"body":"work inside of secular age, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2679.98,"endTime":2683.28,"body":"how work has been kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2679.98,"endTime":2683.28,"body":"transformed in late modernity,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2683.52,"endTime":2686.13,"body":"and particularly looking at the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2683.52,"endTime":2686.13,"body":"Protestant obsession with kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2686.13,"endTime":2688.98,"body":"of innovation and in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2686.13,"endTime":2688.98,"body":"particularly kind of Silicon"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2688.98,"endTime":2692.07,"body":"Valley innovation, which I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2688.98,"endTime":2692.07,"body":"touched on in the congregation"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2692.07,"endTime":2696.18,"body":"and secular age, but kind of dig"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2692.07,"endTime":2696.18,"body":"deeper here. And every every,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2696.75,"endTime":2700.29,"body":"well, I shouldn't say every but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2696.75,"endTime":2700.29,"body":"a lot of kind of Protestant"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2700.29,"endTime":2703.38,"body":"institutions, I know are pretty"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2700.29,"endTime":2703.38,"body":"obsessed with trying to become"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2703.38,"endTime":2705.12,"body":"innovative places. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2705.3,"endTime":2706.62,"body":"under 100%."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2707.52,"endTime":2708.96,"body":"And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2707.52,"endTime":2708.96,"body":"there's some good reasons for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2708.96,"endTime":2711.54,"body":"that. And then there's also some"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2708.96,"endTime":2711.54,"body":"things we should be aware of,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2711.84,"endTime":2715.23,"body":"and some ways that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2711.84,"endTime":2715.23,"body":"it's just very, it's a very odd"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2715.23,"endTime":2719.07,"body":"reality that, especially again,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2715.23,"endTime":2719.07,"body":"and to not keep saying the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2719.07,"endTime":2723.06,"body":"Protestant, you know, blowing on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2719.07,"endTime":2723.06,"body":"the Protestant horn here, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2723.18,"endTime":2725.43,"body":"there is a way that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2723.18,"endTime":2725.43,"body":"Protestantism really thought"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2725.46,"endTime":2729.33,"body":"your Christian life, especially"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2725.46,"endTime":2729.33,"body":"reformed Protestantism, your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2729.33,"endTime":2733.17,"body":"Christian life was lived out in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2729.33,"endTime":2733.17,"body":"the way he worked, you know, so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2733.47,"endTime":2738.15,"body":"if if Max Weber's correct,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2733.47,"endTime":2738.15,"body":"there's a way that belief, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2738.15,"endTime":2741.54,"body":"kind of belief in a God creates"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2738.15,"endTime":2741.54,"body":"capitalism, not you know, not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2741.54,"endTime":2744.12,"body":"just economic realities, it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2741.54,"endTime":2744.12,"body":"that you want it to live"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2744.12,"endTime":2746.31,"body":"faithfully before God and the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2744.12,"endTime":2746.31,"body":"way you showed you with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2746.31,"endTime":2750.78,"body":"faithfully for God was to work"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2746.31,"endTime":2750.78,"body":"hard and to reinvest money and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2750.78,"endTime":2753.03,"body":"kind of to work for a little"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2750.78,"endTime":2753.03,"body":"extra money, but then reinvest"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2753.03,"endTime":2756.6,"body":"that in the system. But we're in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2753.03,"endTime":2756.6,"body":"a really weird time where it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2756.6,"endTime":2760.92,"body":"used to be that the way we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2756.6,"endTime":2760.92,"body":"thought about our faith, kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2760.92,"endTime":2763.59,"body":"filtered in it spilled into how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2760.92,"endTime":2763.59,"body":"we thought about what it meant"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2763.59,"endTime":2767.22,"body":"to work. And now there's a weird"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2763.59,"endTime":2767.22,"body":"way that the way we think about"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2767.22,"endTime":2770.55,"body":"work, particularly kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2767.22,"endTime":2770.55,"body":"permanent innovation of, of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2770.55,"endTime":2774.66,"body":"Silicon Valley, has washed back"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2770.55,"endTime":2774.66,"body":"into the church. And now we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2774.66,"endTime":2778.05,"body":"thinking that the best forms of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2774.66,"endTime":2778.05,"body":"ministry that the best"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2778.05,"endTime":2782.37,"body":"congregations look like Silicon"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2778.05,"endTime":2782.37,"body":"Valley startups, and I'm just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2782.37,"endTime":2785.1,"body":"trying to say, well, let's,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2782.37,"endTime":2785.1,"body":"let's think about that. Let's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2785.1,"endTime":2789.18,"body":"think about where this all comes"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2785.1,"endTime":2789.18,"body":"from. And I do think maybe we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2789.18,"endTime":2792.51,"body":"should really hold on to some"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2789.18,"endTime":2792.51,"body":"innovation practices that we've"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2792.51,"endTime":2795.42,"body":"been given. But let's, let's be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2792.51,"endTime":2795.42,"body":"really clear where they come"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2795.42,"endTime":2799.62,"body":"from, and and you know, where"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2795.42,"endTime":2799.62,"body":"they rest before we jump in and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2800.16,"endTime":2802.47,"body":"fully. So that's, that's kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2800.16,"endTime":2802.47,"body":"the book."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2803.37,"endTime":2805.71,"body":"Great. Do you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2803.37,"endTime":2805.71,"body":"talk a little bit think about"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2805.83,"endTime":2810.15,"body":"the theology of work work is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2805.83,"endTime":2810.15,"body":"worship and that that realm, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2810.15,"endTime":2813.06,"body":"what are your quick thoughts on"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2810.15,"endTime":2813.06,"body":"on that?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2813.39,"endTime":2815.82,"body":"Yeah, I do. But you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2813.39,"endTime":2815.82,"body":"know, where I ultimately go"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2815.82,"endTime":2818.55,"body":"theologically and this is a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2815.82,"endTime":2818.55,"body":"They're kind of good full circle"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2818.55,"endTime":2823.17,"body":"for us as to the self. Because I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2818.55,"endTime":2823.17,"body":"do I think that the way work is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2823.17,"endTime":2826.74,"body":"structured. Now one of the ways"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2823.17,"endTime":2826.74,"body":"that it is evolved is it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2826.95,"endTime":2829.62,"body":"glorified creativity. Like if"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2826.95,"endTime":2829.62,"body":"you if you worked in a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2829.62,"endTime":2833.94,"body":"corporation in the 1960s, no one"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2829.62,"endTime":2833.94,"body":"thought you were doing anything"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2833.94,"endTime":2836.46,"body":"creative. I mean, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2833.94,"endTime":2836.46,"body":"like, you think those episodes"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2836.46,"endTime":2840.54,"body":"of Mad Men at the first season"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2836.46,"endTime":2840.54,"body":"of Mad Men were the creative"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2840.57,"endTime":2844.98,"body":"wing, the art, the art, the art"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2840.57,"endTime":2844.98,"body":"department, like they were"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2844.98,"endTime":2848.97,"body":"completely ostracized, and they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2844.98,"endTime":2848.97,"body":"no one cared about them. But now"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2848.97,"endTime":2852.39,"body":"this weird things happen, where"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2848.97,"endTime":2852.39,"body":"we really do glorify creativity,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2852.39,"endTime":2854.52,"body":"and we kind of think design,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2852.39,"endTime":2854.52,"body":"creativity will solve"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2854.52,"endTime":2857.91,"body":"everything. And people have a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2854.52,"endTime":2857.91,"body":"lot less protections at their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2857.91,"endTime":2862.05,"body":"jobs, you know, their jobs are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2857.91,"endTime":2862.05,"body":"talked about the fluidity of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2862.05,"endTime":2865.14,"body":"everything, like people's jobs"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2862.05,"endTime":2865.14,"body":"are really fluid and, and that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2865.14,"endTime":2868.86,"body":"accelerates their lives. But"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2865.14,"endTime":2868.86,"body":"what people tend to get is a way"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2869.22,"endTime":2872.16,"body":"to kind of work on yourself and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2869.22,"endTime":2872.16,"body":"work because of the way"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2872.16,"endTime":2875.82,"body":"creativity functions. So the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2872.16,"endTime":2875.82,"body":"advantage of getting all this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2875.82,"endTime":2878.76,"body":"flexibility which corporations"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2875.82,"endTime":2878.76,"body":"need to have permanent"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2878.76,"endTime":2882.03,"body":"innovation, is you also get this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2878.76,"endTime":2882.03,"body":"sense of personal development"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2882.03,"endTime":2885.24,"body":"you get to work on. So the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2882.03,"endTime":2885.24,"body":"manager is no longer a manager"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2885.27,"endTime":2889.5,"body":"managing a complicated system,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2885.27,"endTime":2889.5,"body":"the managers, your coach, as you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2889.5,"endTime":2893.55,"body":"and a small team work on some"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2889.5,"endTime":2893.55,"body":"kind of project, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2893.55,"endTime":2897.69,"body":"so it really does the advantage"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2893.55,"endTime":2897.69,"body":"you get for less kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2897.69,"endTime":2901.5,"body":"protections when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2897.69,"endTime":2901.5,"body":"insurance and job security and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2901.5,"endTime":2904.38,"body":"things like that, as you get to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2901.5,"endTime":2904.38,"body":"creatively work on yourself,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2904.41,"endTime":2909.51,"body":"well, that's all good, but it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2904.41,"endTime":2909.51,"body":"also creates this obsessive self"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2909.51,"endTime":2913.2,"body":"culture we have. So what I tried"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2909.51,"endTime":2913.2,"body":"to do theologically is is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2913.2,"endTime":2917.94,"body":"returned to the kind of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2913.2,"endTime":2917.94,"body":"German Rhineland mystics who"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2918.72,"endTime":2922.29,"body":"impacted Luther who think very"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2918.72,"endTime":2922.29,"body":"differently about the self and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2922.29,"endTime":2925.53,"body":"to think the self must lose, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2922.29,"endTime":2925.53,"body":"kind of have to lose yourself to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2925.53,"endTime":2929.55,"body":"find yourself and try to return"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2925.53,"endTime":2929.55,"body":"to that and, and kind of think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2929.55,"endTime":2935.94,"body":"about work, not as this creating"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2929.55,"endTime":2935.94,"body":"the self, but this way of, of,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2936.57,"endTime":2938.94,"body":"of honoring God, and like you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2936.57,"endTime":2938.94,"body":"said, worship and things like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2938.94,"endTime":2939.84,"body":"that. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2940.35,"endTime":2942.54,"body":"great,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2940.35,"endTime":2942.54,"body":"beautiful. It a couple of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2942.54,"endTime":2945.12,"body":"questions here at the end. One,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2942.54,"endTime":2945.12,"body":"if you go back to your 21 year"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2945.12,"endTime":2946.98,"body":"old self, what advice would you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2945.12,"endTime":2946.98,"body":"give?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2948.0,"endTime":2951.21,"body":"What I give to my"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2948.0,"endTime":2951.21,"body":"21 year old self? This is going"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2951.21,"endTime":2954.12,"body":"to be completely inconsistent"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2951.21,"endTime":2954.12,"body":"with everything I've said, but I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2954.12,"endTime":2963.96,"body":"would say invest in Google. That"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2954.12,"endTime":2963.96,"body":"would be good. No, I What would"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2963.96,"endTime":2970.02,"body":"I say to my 21 year old self? I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2963.96,"endTime":2970.02,"body":"think? I don't know. I would, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2970.02,"endTime":2977.46,"body":"would? I think I would say, um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2970.02,"endTime":2977.46,"body":"yeah, just just hang in there."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2977.49,"endTime":2982.65,"body":"Just keep reading keep. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2977.49,"endTime":2982.65,"body":"and, and really, that it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2982.68,"endTime":2986.01,"body":"always important to continue to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2982.68,"endTime":2986.01,"body":"seek for the living God in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2986.01,"endTime":2991.17,"body":"world, and that the church is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2986.01,"endTime":2991.17,"body":"more important than you. I think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2991.17,"endTime":2994.41,"body":"I'd want to tell my 21 year old"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2991.17,"endTime":2994.41,"body":"self that because it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2994.41,"endTime":2999.33,"body":"taken years to, to learn that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2994.41,"endTime":2999.33,"body":"many ways. You know that the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2999.33,"endTime":3004.58,"body":"think that you know what, what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":2999.33,"endTime":3004.58,"body":"I'm trying to do is just serve"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3004.58,"endTime":3007.79,"body":"God and give to God, what I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3004.58,"endTime":3007.79,"body":"think that the church might"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3007.79,"endTime":3010.7,"body":"need, and it might need it, it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3007.79,"endTime":3010.7,"body":"might not need it. But this is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3011.12,"endTime":3013.52,"body":"it might not need it. Now. Maybe"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3011.12,"endTime":3013.52,"body":"it needs it in two decades. You"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3013.52,"endTime":3016.94,"body":"know what I mean? But this is,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3013.52,"endTime":3016.94,"body":"this is the calling I've been"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3016.94,"endTime":3020.09,"body":"given. And that's enough, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3016.94,"endTime":3020.09,"body":"guess until my 21 year old self"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3020.09,"endTime":3025.97,"body":"like, it's enough to really hear"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3020.09,"endTime":3025.97,"body":"your calling and follow that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3027.83,"endTime":3029.03,"body":"Oh, it's becoming therapy."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3031.25,"endTime":3032.81,"body":"That's good. We"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3031.25,"endTime":3032.81,"body":"could have we could have a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3032.81,"endTime":3036.89,"body":"therapy session. We can just go"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3032.81,"endTime":3036.89,"body":"on to the next hour, we'll get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3036.89,"endTime":3041.72,"body":"to therapy session, then. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3036.89,"endTime":3041.72,"body":"speaking of like, just keep"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3041.72,"endTime":3045.26,"body":"reading anything you've read"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3041.72,"endTime":3045.26,"body":"lately, or watched lately that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3045.26,"endTime":3045.92,"body":"you could recommend?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3046.76,"endTime":3049.94,"body":"Yeah, well, what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3046.76,"endTime":3049.94,"body":"I've Yeah. What have I been"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3049.94,"endTime":3054.95,"body":"watching? I'm super, super"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3049.94,"endTime":3054.95,"body":"intrigued. And almost, well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3054.95,"endTime":3059.96,"body":"almost caught up with, for all"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3054.95,"endTime":3059.96,"body":"mankind on an Apple Apple plus,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3060.2,"endTime":3063.53,"body":"I just find it's fascinating."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3060.2,"endTime":3063.53,"body":"Yeah, so people haven't watched"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3063.53,"endTime":3066.56,"body":"it. It's like a thought"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3063.53,"endTime":3066.56,"body":"experiment in alternate history,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3066.56,"endTime":3070.85,"body":"if you will, if the space space"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3066.56,"endTime":3070.85,"body":"race would have continued. So"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3070.97,"endTime":3073.16,"body":"there's three seasons, and the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3070.97,"endTime":3073.16,"body":"first one is like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3073.19,"endTime":3076.25,"body":"right around the Apollo"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3073.19,"endTime":3076.25,"body":"missions. And what happens is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3076.25,"endTime":3080.24,"body":"Russia wins wins the race to the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3076.25,"endTime":3080.24,"body":"moon. And of course, this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3080.27,"endTime":3083.78,"body":"compels the United States to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3080.27,"endTime":3083.78,"body":"stay more deeply invested in and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3083.78,"endTime":3086.15,"body":"they jump forward, I think, what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3083.78,"endTime":3086.15,"body":"are they going forward, like the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3086.15,"endTime":3090.14,"body":"80s and then they jump forward"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3086.15,"endTime":3090.14,"body":"to the 90s. And it's really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3090.14,"endTime":3093.23,"body":"fascinating to think about what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3090.14,"endTime":3093.23,"body":"what would happen so I mean, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3093.23,"endTime":3097.04,"body":"episodes now or it's 94, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3093.23,"endTime":3097.04,"body":"like, everything's kind of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3097.04,"endTime":3100.61,"body":"same but different to they do in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3097.04,"endTime":3100.61,"body":"a really interesting way. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3100.73,"endTime":3103.91,"body":"they're 1994 and they're making"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3100.73,"endTime":3103.91,"body":"it to Mars, you know, so it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3104.12,"endTime":3108.2,"body":"the idea of what would have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3104.12,"endTime":3108.2,"body":"happened in the 70s. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3108.2,"endTime":3112.94,"body":"particularly after a after,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3108.2,"endTime":3112.94,"body":"after the explosion of the of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3112.94,"endTime":3118.13,"body":"the space shuttle, if things"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3112.94,"endTime":3118.13,"body":"would have continued well, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3118.55,"endTime":3120.17,"body":"I'm finding that really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3118.55,"endTime":3120.17,"body":"interesting kind of thinking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3120.17,"endTime":3121.16,"body":"about alternate history."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3121.22,"endTime":3124.73,"body":"Yeah, having"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3121.22,"endTime":3124.73,"body":"started on on season two, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3124.73,"endTime":3129.77,"body":"season one season one was really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3124.73,"endTime":3129.77,"body":"rough patch. And like the few"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3129.8,"endTime":3133.79,"body":"episodes there, I mean, it was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3129.8,"endTime":3133.79,"body":"just some horrific loss and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3133.79,"endTime":3137.9,"body":"grief that was hard for me to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3133.79,"endTime":3137.9,"body":"deal with. And then I got there,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3137.93,"endTime":3141.71,"body":"like the end of season one is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3137.93,"endTime":3141.71,"body":"spectacular. The way that they"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3141.71,"endTime":3146.24,"body":"finish seasons is pretty"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3141.71,"endTime":3146.24,"body":"amazing. It is amazing. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3146.24,"endTime":3149.99,"body":"I've, I've heard that the rest"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3146.24,"endTime":3149.99,"body":"of it as as, as it wasn't,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3149.99,"endTime":3152.84,"body":"season one is probably a slow go"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3149.99,"endTime":3152.84,"body":"and season two for a while,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3153.02,"endTime":3158.24,"body":"build it up. But season two ends"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3153.02,"endTime":3158.24,"body":"spectacularly as well. And so I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3158.24,"endTime":3159.86,"body":"should probably catch back up"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3160.82,"endTime":3162.56,"body":"there. So you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3160.82,"endTime":3162.56,"body":"talking about acceleration,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3162.56,"endTime":3164.12,"body":"there's so much to watch. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3165.02,"endTime":3168.23,"body":"You can't keep"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3165.02,"endTime":3168.23,"body":"up. You just can't keep up"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3168.41,"endTime":3170.69,"body":"conversations. Sad."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3172.04,"endTime":3174.17,"body":"But it's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3172.04,"endTime":3174.17,"body":"we are living in the golden era"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3174.17,"endTime":3176.75,"body":"TV. So we also that's true shift"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3174.17,"endTime":3176.75,"body":"for that. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3177.05,"endTime":3180.59,"body":"it's true. It's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3177.05,"endTime":3180.59,"body":"true. Great. Where can people"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3180.59,"endTime":3185.24,"body":"find, find your work? Anything"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3180.59,"endTime":3185.24,"body":"that you want to say? Look out"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3185.24,"endTime":3185.54,"body":"for?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3185.99,"endTime":3188.15,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3185.99,"endTime":3188.15,"body":"was kind of you to ask about the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3188.15,"endTime":3192.2,"body":"book coming out in at the end of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3188.15,"endTime":3192.2,"body":"September. So churches, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3192.2,"endTime":3194.6,"body":"church after innovation, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3192.2,"endTime":3194.6,"body":"then people I mean, I have a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3194.6,"endTime":3199.1,"body":"website, just android.org that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3194.6,"endTime":3199.1,"body":"is getting revamped as we speak,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3199.1,"endTime":3202.73,"body":"which is kind of cool. And you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3199.1,"endTime":3202.73,"body":"can find me there. And, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3202.73,"endTime":3205.82,"body":"know, you can also find me on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3202.73,"endTime":3205.82,"body":"that. That terrible dumpster"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3205.82,"endTime":3209.63,"body":"fire called Twitter too. But I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3205.82,"endTime":3209.63,"body":"I'm rarely on that, but I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3209.63,"endTime":3212.24,"body":"shouldn't say I'm really I'm"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3209.63,"endTime":3212.24,"body":"looking at like sports tweets"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3212.27,"endTime":3216.32,"body":"all the time. But you know, try"},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3212.27,"endTime":3216.32,"body":"to not read much else."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3216.8,"endTime":3221.15,"body":"There you go."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3216.8,"endTime":3221.15,"body":"There you go. Andy, it was such"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3221.15,"endTime":3225.05,"body":"a pleasure to have you on and to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3221.15,"endTime":3225.05,"body":"have this conversation. Really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3225.05,"endTime":3227.75,"body":"enjoyed it. So thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3225.05,"endTime":3227.75,"body":"for being here."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3228.14,"endTime":3229.19,"body":"Yeah, it was great."},{"speaker":"Andrew Root","startTime":3228.14,"endTime":3229.19,"body":"Thanks."}]}