{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":13.38,"endTime":15.57,"body":"Hello, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":13.38,"endTime":15.57,"body":"welcome to the shifting culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":15.57,"endTime":18.18,"body":"podcast in which we have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":15.57,"endTime":18.18,"body":"conversations about the culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":18.18,"endTime":22.11,"body":"we create, and the impact we can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":18.18,"endTime":22.11,"body":"make. I'm your host, Joshua"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":22.11,"endTime":27.06,"body":"Johnson, we longed to see the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":22.11,"endTime":27.06,"body":"body of Christ look like Jesus."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":27.81,"endTime":30.66,"body":"Go to shifting culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":27.81,"endTime":30.66,"body":"podcast.com To interact or"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":30.66,"endTime":33.57,"body":"donate. And don't forget to hit"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":30.66,"endTime":33.57,"body":"the Follow button on your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":33.57,"endTime":36.48,"body":"favorite podcast app to be"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":33.57,"endTime":36.48,"body":"notified when new episodes come"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":36.48,"endTime":42.87,"body":"out each Tuesday. And right now"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":36.48,"endTime":42.87,"body":"go and leave a rating and review"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":43.11,"endTime":47.1,"body":"that helps us reach new"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":43.11,"endTime":47.1,"body":"listeners. So thank you for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":47.1,"endTime":50.85,"body":"doing that. I really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":47.1,"endTime":50.85,"body":"it. Previous guests on the show"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":50.85,"endTime":55.44,"body":"have included Jesse Cruickshank"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":50.85,"endTime":55.44,"body":"talsi Gara, and Jamie Winship,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":55.56,"endTime":59.16,"body":"you could go back, listen to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":55.56,"endTime":59.16,"body":"those episodes and more. But"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":59.16,"endTime":64.08,"body":"today's guest is Dr. Jim Wilder."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":59.16,"endTime":64.08,"body":"Jim has been training leaders"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":64.08,"endTime":68.31,"body":"and counselors for over 30 years"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":64.08,"endTime":68.31,"body":"on five continents. He is the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":68.31,"endTime":72.15,"body":"author of 19 books and has"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":68.31,"endTime":72.15,"body":"extensive clinical counseling"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":72.18,"endTime":76.71,"body":"experience. He is the chief"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":72.18,"endTime":76.71,"body":"neuro theologian of life model"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":76.71,"endTime":81.54,"body":"works, a nonprofit working at"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":76.71,"endTime":81.54,"body":"the intersection of theology and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":81.54,"endTime":86.13,"body":"brain science. Jim and I have a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":81.54,"endTime":86.13,"body":"great conversation diving into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":86.13,"endTime":90.24,"body":"his latest book escaping enemy"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":86.13,"endTime":90.24,"body":"mode. I'm excited for you all to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":90.24,"endTime":94.2,"body":"hear this one. I don't think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":90.24,"endTime":94.2,"body":"that there is a more important"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":94.2,"endTime":98.22,"body":"topic than escaping enemy mode"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":94.2,"endTime":98.22,"body":"at this moment. There's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":98.25,"endTime":101.61,"body":"us versus them out there. So"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":98.25,"endTime":101.61,"body":"let's figure it out. How do we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":101.61,"endTime":106.71,"body":"escape enemy mode? Well, here is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":101.61,"endTime":106.71,"body":"my conversation with Dr. Jim"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":106.71,"endTime":111.27,"body":"Wilder, and you could figure out"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":106.71,"endTime":111.27,"body":"how to do just that. Welcome,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":111.27,"endTime":114.3,"body":"Jim. Thanks for coming to the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":111.27,"endTime":114.3,"body":"podcast. excited to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":114.78,"endTime":118.44,"body":"Great to be with you, Joshua."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":114.78,"endTime":118.44,"body":"Yeah, I'd love to just start off"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":119.16,"endTime":122.79,"body":"a little bit with your story of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":119.16,"endTime":122.79,"body":"how you got engaged with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":123.09,"endTime":128.04,"body":"psychology in the brain and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":123.09,"endTime":128.04,"body":"following Jesus together and why"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":128.07,"endTime":131.55,"body":"you've decided that that's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":128.07,"endTime":131.55,"body":"important for your relationship,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":131.85,"endTime":133.8,"body":"and our relationship with God."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":135.03,"endTime":137.31,"body":"Yeah, well, my"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":135.03,"endTime":137.31,"body":"parents were missionaries, and I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":137.31,"endTime":142.53,"body":"grew up in South America up in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":137.31,"endTime":142.53,"body":"the Andes. So I was immersed in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":142.53,"endTime":149.1,"body":"Christianity all the way from my"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":142.53,"endTime":149.1,"body":"childhood. But it was sort of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":150.21,"endTime":153.48,"body":"believing the right things, but"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":150.21,"endTime":153.48,"body":"I wasn't sure God was too much"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":153.48,"endTime":157.41,"body":"an active presence, certainly"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":153.48,"endTime":157.41,"body":"not going to interact with me."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":157.41,"endTime":163.83,"body":"And so in my young adult life, I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":157.41,"endTime":163.83,"body":"actually experienced God"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":163.83,"endTime":167.43,"body":"answering prayer, certainly,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":163.83,"endTime":167.43,"body":"what I would call miraculous"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":167.43,"endTime":170.07,"body":"kind of way, like, I prayed"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":167.43,"endTime":170.07,"body":"right now, and something"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":170.07,"endTime":174.12,"body":"happened. And that really amazed"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":170.07,"endTime":174.12,"body":"me. And what he actually had"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":174.12,"endTime":178.83,"body":"done was to heal some post"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":174.12,"endTime":178.83,"body":"traumatic stress and somebody"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":178.83,"endTime":184.71,"body":"that I was happened to pray for,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":178.83,"endTime":184.71,"body":"just walked into them, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":184.71,"endTime":187.65,"body":"wasn't expecting a prayer"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":184.71,"endTime":187.65,"body":"encounter or anything like that."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":187.65,"endTime":191.88,"body":"So then I started studying"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":187.65,"endTime":191.88,"body":"psychology to find out, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":191.88,"endTime":195.36,"body":"know, what I had just witnessed,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":191.88,"endTime":195.36,"body":"but always looking at how does"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":195.36,"endTime":202.35,"body":"God intervene with that. And,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":195.36,"endTime":202.35,"body":"oddly enough, eventually ended"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":202.35,"endTime":207.81,"body":"up working with Dallas Willards"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":202.35,"endTime":207.81,"body":"wife, and she was working on the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":207.81,"endTime":210.75,"body":"spiritual disciplines with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":207.81,"endTime":210.75,"body":"Dallas and things like that. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":211.17,"endTime":213.63,"body":"we find that for some people,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":211.17,"endTime":213.63,"body":"they were working pretty well."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":213.63,"endTime":217.44,"body":"And for others, they weren't. So"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":213.63,"endTime":217.44,"body":"again, looking at what the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":217.44,"endTime":220.59,"body":"difference was, and traumas"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":217.44,"endTime":220.59,"body":"showed up in the middle of that."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":221.31,"endTime":224.13,"body":"And trauma, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":221.31,"endTime":224.13,"body":"essentially means your brain"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":224.13,"endTime":227.76,"body":"isn't running, right. So all of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":224.13,"endTime":227.76,"body":"a sudden, we have, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":227.76,"endTime":231.99,"body":"what is the brain got to do with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":227.76,"endTime":231.99,"body":"spiritual life as becoming sort"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":231.99,"endTime":235.5,"body":"of the focal question? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":231.99,"endTime":235.5,"body":"that's how I got into it."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":236.88,"endTime":240.15,"body":"And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":236.88,"endTime":240.15,"body":"it looks like, if your brain"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":240.15,"endTime":244.86,"body":"isn't running, right, if you're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":240.15,"endTime":244.86,"body":"not operating properly, we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":244.86,"endTime":247.71,"body":"actually having some broken"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":244.86,"endTime":247.71,"body":"relationships, or broken"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":247.71,"endTime":250.14,"body":"relationships with each other"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":247.71,"endTime":250.14,"body":"and broken relationships with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":250.14,"endTime":255.21,"body":"God. So when you entered into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":250.14,"endTime":255.21,"body":"that trauma with people, what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":255.21,"endTime":258.96,"body":"are the ways that if you saw"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":255.21,"endTime":258.96,"body":"God, he started to heal that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":258.96,"endTime":260.79,"body":"brain in our relational"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":258.96,"endTime":260.79,"body":"circuits?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":262.11,"endTime":266.46,"body":"Well, the original"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":262.11,"endTime":266.46,"body":"approach I took was more of a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":266.46,"endTime":270.63,"body":"psychological approach to that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":266.46,"endTime":270.63,"body":"sort of I got trained in school"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":270.63,"endTime":276.81,"body":"when I got my PhD. And that is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":270.63,"endTime":276.81,"body":"to get people to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":277.44,"endTime":280.71,"body":"remember or get in touch with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":277.44,"endTime":280.71,"body":"the feelings of the trauma see,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":280.71,"endTime":285.51,"body":"are all deep into that and then"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":280.71,"endTime":285.51,"body":"we would go looking for God to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":285.51,"endTime":290.28,"body":"see where he was. And that was"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":285.51,"endTime":290.28,"body":"rather difficult and painful."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":291.3,"endTime":294.54,"body":"And then again, through Jane"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":291.3,"endTime":294.54,"body":"Willard, she suggested, well,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":294.54,"endTime":298.71,"body":"why don't we go look for God"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":294.54,"endTime":298.71,"body":"first, and get the brain she"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":298.71,"endTime":301.83,"body":"didn't say it this way. But To"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":298.71,"endTime":301.83,"body":"get the brain in its most stable"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":301.83,"endTime":306.63,"body":"configuration where it's running"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":301.83,"endTime":306.63,"body":"in a good relational way. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":306.63,"endTime":310.02,"body":"then ask God to guide us through"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":306.63,"endTime":310.02,"body":"the trauma. So instead of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":310.32,"endTime":314.31,"body":"getting into the brain's most"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":310.32,"endTime":314.31,"body":"upset and dysfunctional state,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":314.31,"endTime":317.85,"body":"and then trying to find God, why"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":314.31,"endTime":317.85,"body":"not find God and let Him guide"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":317.85,"endTime":321.27,"body":"you through, then all of a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":317.85,"endTime":321.27,"body":"sudden things seem to be"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":321.93,"endTime":325.41,"body":"resolving in about a sixth of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":321.93,"endTime":325.41,"body":"the amount of time with a lot"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":325.41,"endTime":332.58,"body":"less difficulty for everybody"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":325.41,"endTime":332.58,"body":"all around. So, again, could it"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":332.58,"endTime":337.53,"body":"be that our attachment with God"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":332.58,"endTime":337.53,"body":"is sort of central to who we are"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":337.53,"endTime":342.6,"body":"and how we handle tough things?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":337.53,"endTime":342.6,"body":"And the more we looked at the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":342.6,"endTime":345.87,"body":"evidence, the more that became"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":342.6,"endTime":345.87,"body":"compelling, yeah, if you're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":346.08,"endTime":349.65,"body":"connected with God, you can get"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":346.08,"endTime":349.65,"body":"through a lot of hard things. In"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":349.65,"endTime":354.63,"body":"fact, Jesus says something, or"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":349.65,"endTime":354.63,"body":"says of Jesus and Hebrews 12,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":355.26,"endTime":360.21,"body":"that, you know, he turned his"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":355.26,"endTime":360.21,"body":"eyes towards heaven, during the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":360.21,"endTime":362.94,"body":"crucifixion, and that, that's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":360.21,"endTime":362.94,"body":"how we should handle our"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":362.94,"endTime":368.34,"body":"problems, too. So if we can get"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":362.94,"endTime":368.34,"body":"Steven getting stoned and killed"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":368.34,"endTime":372.57,"body":"in the eyes, Heaven opens up, so"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":368.34,"endTime":372.57,"body":"shouldn't we connect with God"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":372.57,"endTime":378.36,"body":"and His perspective and presents"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":372.57,"endTime":378.36,"body":"that those hard times and then"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":378.36,"endTime":383.46,"body":"we can face the problems, more"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":378.36,"endTime":383.46,"body":"straight on and with less brain"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":383.46,"endTime":389.07,"body":"problems. So the brain has got"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":383.46,"endTime":389.07,"body":"to learn to do these things. So"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":389.07,"endTime":393.63,"body":"in some ways, it's the weakest"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":389.07,"endTime":393.63,"body":"link in the whole thing, and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":393.63,"endTime":396.0,"body":"requires the most attention for"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":393.63,"endTime":396.0,"body":"that reason."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":396.69,"endTime":399.84,"body":"And so if you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":396.69,"endTime":399.84,"body":"know our attachments, God is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":399.84,"endTime":406.14,"body":"crucial to our way of living and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":399.84,"endTime":406.14,"body":"actually being stable. A lot of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":406.14,"endTime":409.2,"body":"times when we're practicing and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":406.14,"endTime":409.2,"body":"spiritual disciplines, and we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":409.29,"endTime":414.06,"body":"making space and room so that we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":409.29,"endTime":414.06,"body":"can attach to God, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":414.06,"endTime":419.4,"body":"times, we often don't realize"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":414.06,"endTime":419.4,"body":"how to interact with God, or how"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":419.4,"endTime":424.2,"body":"to hear God or how to be with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":419.4,"endTime":424.2,"body":"God. What are some ways as we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":424.2,"endTime":429.21,"body":"entering into those things that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":424.2,"endTime":429.21,"body":"we could actually recognize God"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":429.24,"endTime":431.04,"body":"and start to attach to him?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":432.48,"endTime":435.57,"body":"Well, there's two"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":432.48,"endTime":435.57,"body":"sort of contour and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":435.69,"endTime":438.99,"body":"counterintuitive things about"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":435.69,"endTime":438.99,"body":"how the brain does that that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":439.41,"endTime":444.84,"body":"would be fun to look at at this"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":439.41,"endTime":444.84,"body":"point. The first is that the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":444.87,"endTime":452.1,"body":"part of your brain that is most"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":444.87,"endTime":452.1,"body":"able to connect with God, which"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":452.1,"endTime":458.43,"body":"should be the prefrontal cortex,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":452.1,"endTime":458.43,"body":"especially the which is the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":458.43,"endTime":462.3,"body":"very, very top of the brain."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":458.43,"endTime":462.3,"body":"It's the part of your brain"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":462.3,"endTime":465.96,"body":"that's most connected to your"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":462.3,"endTime":465.96,"body":"body. So one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":465.96,"endTime":469.08,"body":"we've discovered is that if"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":465.96,"endTime":469.08,"body":"people aren't connected with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":469.08,"endTime":472.98,"body":"their bodies, they don't connect"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":469.08,"endTime":472.98,"body":"very well with God. And you'd"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":472.98,"endTime":476.79,"body":"think it might go the other way"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":472.98,"endTime":476.79,"body":"around. So that you saw, in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":476.79,"endTime":482.28,"body":"fact, most spiritual experiences"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":476.79,"endTime":482.28,"body":"as they're studied, in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":482.28,"endTime":486.45,"body":"psychology, you know, so they go"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":482.28,"endTime":486.45,"body":"in this spiritual experience, it"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":486.45,"endTime":489.03,"body":"says, sort of a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":486.45,"endTime":489.03,"body":"depersonalization experience,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":489.03,"endTime":492.87,"body":"it's a place where you're not"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":489.03,"endTime":492.87,"body":"attached with your body, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":492.87,"endTime":496.32,"body":"feel one with the universe and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":492.87,"endTime":496.32,"body":"stuff like that. That's really"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":496.32,"endTime":500.88,"body":"not where spiritual life with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":496.32,"endTime":500.88,"body":"God is focused on God is very"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":500.88,"endTime":506.91,"body":"connected God, and he's actually"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":500.88,"endTime":506.91,"body":"God of creation. And so he, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":506.91,"endTime":511.35,"body":"know, he's lives in an embodied"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":506.91,"endTime":511.35,"body":"kind of experience, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":511.35,"endTime":514.59,"body":"and so when we connect with our"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":511.35,"endTime":514.59,"body":"bodies, which usually means we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":514.59,"endTime":519.81,"body":"have to take a few deep breaths,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":514.59,"endTime":519.81,"body":"and notice how how we are those"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":519.81,"endTime":523.89,"body":"kinds of feelings inside. That"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":519.81,"endTime":523.89,"body":"is when we're most present to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":523.89,"endTime":528.81,"body":"God, when we're in our, in our"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":523.89,"endTime":528.81,"body":"bodies in a restful state, and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":528.81,"endTime":533.4,"body":"the best way to get there is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":528.81,"endTime":533.4,"body":"through being thankful. So, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":533.4,"endTime":535.92,"body":"know, it can be as simple as"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":533.4,"endTime":535.92,"body":"being thankful for a little"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":535.92,"endTime":542.37,"body":"coffee. Or, you know, being"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":535.92,"endTime":542.37,"body":"thankful for a good relationship"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":542.4,"endTime":544.98,"body":"or being thankful the best"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":542.4,"endTime":544.98,"body":"things are being thankful for"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":544.98,"endTime":547.92,"body":"moments when God taught or"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":544.98,"endTime":547.92,"body":"touched our lives, and they just"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":548.16,"endTime":551.88,"body":"feel what that's like inside."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":548.16,"endTime":551.88,"body":"But the other counterintuitive"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":551.88,"endTime":558.24,"body":"thing is that thoughts that come"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":551.88,"endTime":558.24,"body":"from God seem to be first"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":558.24,"endTime":561.84,"body":"detected by the cingulate"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":558.24,"endTime":561.84,"body":"cortex, which is a mutual mind"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":561.84,"endTime":565.74,"body":"state. And in that mutual mind,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":561.84,"endTime":565.74,"body":"state, we don't know at first if"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":565.74,"endTime":568.65,"body":"it's our thought, or someone"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":565.74,"endTime":568.65,"body":"else's thought most of the time."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":569.46,"endTime":573.54,"body":"Occasionally, it's so surprising"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":569.46,"endTime":573.54,"body":"that we don't even understand"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":573.54,"endTime":576.96,"body":"it. And then we go like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":573.54,"endTime":576.96,"body":"that must be somebody else's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":576.96,"endTime":582.69,"body":"thought. But for most people,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":576.96,"endTime":582.69,"body":"Christians and pastors in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":582.69,"endTime":586.32,"body":"particular, they've already"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":582.69,"endTime":586.32,"body":"learned a little bit of thinking"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":586.32,"endTime":589.74,"body":"with God. And so there's always"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":586.32,"endTime":589.74,"body":"this uncertainty. Was it me"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":589.74,"endTime":595.38,"body":"thinking or was that a God"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":589.74,"endTime":595.38,"body":"thought? And the answer is that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":595.41,"endTime":598.32,"body":"since the mind of Christ"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":595.41,"endTime":598.32,"body":"supposed to be in us, when it's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":598.32,"endTime":601.89,"body":"at its best, you can't tell the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":598.32,"endTime":601.89,"body":"difference. Kids, were thinking"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":601.89,"endTime":605.43,"body":"the same thing that God is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":601.89,"endTime":605.43,"body":"thinking, yeah. And then when"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":605.43,"endTime":610.35,"body":"you reflect on it, you realize,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":605.43,"endTime":610.35,"body":"oh, yeah, this matches with all"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":610.35,"endTime":613.95,"body":"the other things I know about"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":610.35,"endTime":613.95,"body":"God as well from Scripture and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":613.95,"endTime":618.87,"body":"experience and things like that."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":613.95,"endTime":618.87,"body":"So being in our bodies and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":618.87,"endTime":622.32,"body":"having thoughts come into our"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":618.87,"endTime":622.32,"body":"minds that we're not sure at"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":622.32,"endTime":625.26,"body":"first, whether they're God's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":622.32,"endTime":625.26,"body":"thoughts or not, are the two"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":625.26,"endTime":629.34,"body":"counterintuitive things about"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":625.26,"endTime":629.34,"body":"listening to God in a relational"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":629.34,"endTime":632.07,"body":"kind of way, where you're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":629.34,"endTime":632.07,"body":"actually learning to think with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":632.07,"endTime":633.0,"body":"him in real time?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":633.33,"endTime":636.51,"body":"Wow. That's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":633.33,"endTime":636.51,"body":"fascinating. And you know, as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":636.51,"endTime":640.77,"body":"you you wrote in your, in your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":636.51,"endTime":640.77,"body":"book, escaping enemy mode that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":640.77,"endTime":646.17,"body":"you were at with Ray Woolridge?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":640.77,"endTime":646.17,"body":"The general one of the things is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":646.17,"endTime":650.58,"body":"you're thinking about actually,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":646.17,"endTime":650.58,"body":"I think enemy mode stops us from"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":650.61,"endTime":655.14,"body":"from engaging. Those are these"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":650.61,"endTime":655.14,"body":"God thoughts are these are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":655.14,"endTime":659.46,"body":"thoughts, actually, I think,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":655.14,"endTime":659.46,"body":"probably just keeps us engaged"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":659.46,"endTime":664.23,"body":"in ourself, and seeing others as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":659.46,"endTime":664.23,"body":"enemy. And I think it's really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":664.23,"endTime":667.74,"body":"important that we figure out how"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":664.23,"endTime":667.74,"body":"to escape enemy mode. So just to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":668.1,"endTime":672.21,"body":"let us know, a little bit, what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":668.1,"endTime":672.21,"body":"is enemy mode? And why did you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":672.24,"endTime":673.29,"body":"you write this book?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":675.39,"endTime":679.65,"body":"Well, yes. So enemy"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":675.39,"endTime":679.65,"body":"mode is actually that state of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":679.65,"endTime":682.35,"body":"mind in which you anticipate"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":679.65,"endTime":682.35,"body":"somebody else isn't on your"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":682.35,"endTime":689.67,"body":"side. So, you know, if you want"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":682.35,"endTime":689.67,"body":"to get vaccines, and the other"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":689.67,"endTime":692.91,"body":"person says something that's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":689.67,"endTime":692.91,"body":"anti vaccine, it's immediately"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":692.91,"endTime":696.39,"body":"the feeling inside, they're not"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":692.91,"endTime":696.39,"body":"on my side, or if I think I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":696.39,"endTime":703.65,"body":"should have, you know, loud"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":696.39,"endTime":703.65,"body":"music for worship, and you think"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":703.65,"endTime":707.55,"body":"that I should have quiet music"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":703.65,"endTime":707.55,"body":"for worship? Immediately, the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":707.55,"endTime":711.6,"body":"mind says, Oh, well, you're not"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":707.55,"endTime":711.6,"body":"on my side. And it goes into an"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":711.6,"endTime":716.07,"body":"antagonistic position, that's an"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":711.6,"endTime":716.07,"body":"enemy mode, rather than seeking"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":716.07,"endTime":721.77,"body":"to understand the other person,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":716.07,"endTime":721.77,"body":"we're trying to now convince"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":721.77,"endTime":726.27,"body":"them that we're right, or, in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":721.77,"endTime":726.27,"body":"essence, trying to make them"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":726.27,"endTime":730.11,"body":"lose. And that's the state of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":726.27,"endTime":730.11,"body":"enemy mind, what we want other"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":730.11,"endTime":735.33,"body":"people to lose, shows up kind of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":730.11,"endTime":735.33,"body":"three ways. First, is I don't"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":735.33,"endTime":737.97,"body":"even want to connect with you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":735.33,"endTime":737.97,"body":"just go away, don't bother me,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":738.27,"endTime":742.2,"body":"that this sort of simple enemy"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":738.27,"endTime":742.2,"body":"mode, and then there's stupid"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":742.2,"endTime":746.13,"body":"enemy mode, where you get all"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":742.2,"endTime":746.13,"body":"energized about it and start"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":746.13,"endTime":751.59,"body":"saying and doing stupid things."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":746.13,"endTime":751.59,"body":"And that's something that people"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":751.62,"endTime":756.81,"body":"often notice, we call it losing"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":751.62,"endTime":756.81,"body":"it. And then there's a scariest"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":756.81,"endTime":759.3,"body":"one, or that which is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":756.81,"endTime":759.3,"body":"intelligent, and I mean mode."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":759.72,"endTime":763.98,"body":"And we usually see that in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":759.72,"endTime":763.98,"body":"politics and in wars and places"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":763.98,"endTime":767.58,"body":"like that. And that's where I'm"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":763.98,"endTime":767.58,"body":"actually using all my"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":767.58,"endTime":773.22,"body":"intelligence to figure out how"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":767.58,"endTime":773.22,"body":"to make you lose. And in any,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":773.52,"endTime":777.72,"body":"any of those three, there's a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":773.52,"endTime":777.72,"body":"lack of compassion. Yeah, a lack"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":777.72,"endTime":782.25,"body":"of connection to the other"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":777.72,"endTime":782.25,"body":"person. And so escaping enemy"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":782.25,"endTime":786.93,"body":"mode is to go back to our sense"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":782.25,"endTime":786.93,"body":"of compassion and connection"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":786.93,"endTime":792.15,"body":"with the other person. And the,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":786.93,"endTime":792.15,"body":"you know, for most of us, the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":792.15,"endTime":795.72,"body":"only reason to do that with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":792.15,"endTime":795.72,"body":"really annoying people. Is that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":795.81,"endTime":801.42,"body":"a we live with them, or be God"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":795.81,"endTime":801.42,"body":"must love them somehow. And so,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":801.48,"endTime":805.02,"body":"you know, I have to overcome"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":801.48,"endTime":805.02,"body":"this. You know, even though I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":805.02,"endTime":809.07,"body":"don't feel motivated, because"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":805.02,"endTime":809.07,"body":"God seems to be motivated, and I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":809.07,"endTime":809.94,"body":"want to be like him."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":810.36,"endTime":813.39,"body":"Yeah. So how do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":810.36,"endTime":813.39,"body":"we, you know, a lot of times, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":813.39,"endTime":819.45,"body":"think, when we enter into enemy"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":813.39,"endTime":819.45,"body":"mode, as you you said, it's, it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":819.99,"endTime":823.23,"body":"happens pretty easily and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":819.99,"endTime":823.23,"body":"naturally. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":823.23,"endTime":827.76,"body":"comes generally generationally"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":823.23,"endTime":827.76,"body":"down the line that we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":827.76,"endTime":831.81,"body":"actually entering into that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":827.76,"endTime":831.81,"body":"constantly. And we've seen"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":831.84,"endTime":835.62,"body":"throughout history that we've"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":831.84,"endTime":835.62,"body":"entered into enemy mode. So how"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":835.62,"endTime":838.59,"body":"do we recognize that we're an"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":835.62,"endTime":838.59,"body":"enemy mode?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":902.63,"endTime":908.66,"body":"Well, the number one"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":902.63,"endTime":908.66,"body":"thing is, we don't feel like we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":908.66,"endTime":913.16,"body":"want to share what the other"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":908.66,"endTime":913.16,"body":"person is feeling. So we're not"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":913.19,"endTime":918.32,"body":"connected with them. We're not,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":913.19,"endTime":918.32,"body":"you know, our compassion has"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":918.32,"endTime":923.84,"body":"suddenly dropped. Yeah. And, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":918.32,"endTime":923.84,"body":"know, often it's because the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":923.84,"endTime":928.73,"body":"other person is not being who"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":923.84,"endTime":928.73,"body":"God created them to be. You"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":928.73,"endTime":932.36,"body":"know, and so you can't really"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":928.73,"endTime":932.36,"body":"connect with someone's sinful"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":932.36,"endTime":935.54,"body":"self and want to be with that,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":932.36,"endTime":935.54,"body":"right? Unless you really want to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":935.54,"endTime":938.0,"body":"do whatever the sin they're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":935.54,"endTime":938.0,"body":"doing. I mean, you can do it"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":938.0,"endTime":941.51,"body":"that way. But most of us that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":938.0,"endTime":941.51,"body":"have been around a while we are"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":941.51,"endTime":946.1,"body":"like, we're not so much into"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":941.51,"endTime":946.1,"body":"that. But, you know, if we're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":946.34,"endTime":950.72,"body":"wanting to connect with who God"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":946.34,"endTime":950.72,"body":"is creating them to be, that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":950.72,"endTime":955.64,"body":"gives us that. You know, that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":950.72,"endTime":955.64,"body":"way to draw out with all the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":955.64,"endTime":958.34,"body":"stuff that Philippians talks"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":955.64,"endTime":958.34,"body":"about, you know, in the other"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":958.34,"endTime":963.9200000000001,"body":"person, to encourage them to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":958.34,"endTime":963.9200000000001,"body":"become who God wants them to be."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":963.9200000000001,"endTime":967.01,"body":"And the more annoying they are,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":963.9200000000001,"endTime":967.01,"body":"the more we want them to become"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":967.01,"endTime":970.07,"body":"who God wants them to be, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":967.01,"endTime":970.07,"body":"know, whether it's our teenage"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":970.07,"endTime":976.13,"body":"children or, you know, really"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":970.07,"endTime":976.13,"body":"annoying parishioner or often"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":976.13,"endTime":980.15,"body":"our spouse, you know that it's,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":976.13,"endTime":980.15,"body":"it's those moments that we're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":980.15,"endTime":987.32,"body":"not being a new creation that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":980.15,"endTime":987.32,"body":"are particularly annoying. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":987.32,"endTime":990.6800000000001,"body":"if we go into enemy mode, now we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":987.32,"endTime":990.6800000000001,"body":"decide we're just going to make"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":990.6800000000001,"endTime":996.23,"body":"you lose. And I'm going to win,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":990.6800000000001,"endTime":996.23,"body":"as opposed to I'm going to be"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":996.23,"endTime":998.84,"body":"able to draw out of you who God"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":996.23,"endTime":998.84,"body":"wants you to be."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":999.0790000000001,"endTime":1002.679,"body":"Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":999.0790000000001,"endTime":1002.679,"body":"think that's really important"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1002.679,"endTime":1006.399,"body":"that we start to recognize that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1002.679,"endTime":1006.399,"body":"there's something else, there's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1006.399,"endTime":1010.689,"body":"some compassion towards another"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1006.399,"endTime":1010.689,"body":"person, when we're, then we have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1010.689,"endTime":1014.889,"body":"some self awareness, so that we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1010.689,"endTime":1014.889,"body":"could start to engage with the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1014.889,"endTime":1020.409,"body":"other. Oftentimes, we're on the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1014.889,"endTime":1020.409,"body":"other side, though, and we are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1020.409,"endTime":1024.219,"body":"trying to interact with someone"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1020.409,"endTime":1024.219,"body":"that is in enemy mode. How do we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1024.219,"endTime":1030.039,"body":"help others recognize it in a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1024.219,"endTime":1030.039,"body":"way that's not won't go off the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1030.039,"endTime":1034.569,"body":"rails and won't delve into into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1030.039,"endTime":1034.569,"body":"a fight?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1036.34,"endTime":1039.34,"body":"Well, here's the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1036.34,"endTime":1039.34,"body":"interesting thing about being in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1039.34,"endTime":1042.94,"body":"enemy mode. While you're in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1039.34,"endTime":1042.94,"body":"enemy mode, your brain is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1042.94,"endTime":1046.3,"body":"actually in a configuration"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1042.94,"endTime":1046.3,"body":"where it cannot tell if other"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1046.3,"endTime":1054.58,"body":"people are out of enemy mode."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1046.3,"endTime":1054.58,"body":"See you it's it's a narrowing of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1054.58,"endTime":1059.26,"body":"the brains focus. Yeah. So if I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1054.58,"endTime":1059.26,"body":"close my eyes, I can't tell if"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1059.26,"endTime":1060.58,"body":"your eyes are open or not."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1061.99,"endTime":1062.77,"body":"Right? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1062.92,"endTime":1065.4099999999999,"body":"So what often"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1062.92,"endTime":1065.4099999999999,"body":"happens when you go to help"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1065.4099999999999,"endTime":1069.82,"body":"somebody in enemy mode? They"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1065.4099999999999,"endTime":1069.82,"body":"have their brain anatomy mode,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1069.82,"endTime":1072.01,"body":"they can't tell that you're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1069.82,"endTime":1072.01,"body":"actually trying to help them."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1072.01,"endTime":1074.29,"body":"They assume you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1072.01,"endTime":1074.29,"body":"attack you're trying to make"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1074.29,"endTime":1077.3799999999999,"body":"them lose? Yeah. And of course,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1074.29,"endTime":1077.3799999999999,"body":"you're trying to get them out of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1077.3799999999999,"endTime":1081.22,"body":"that position. So it feels like"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1077.3799999999999,"endTime":1081.22,"body":"well, you're not agreeing with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1081.22,"endTime":1085.18,"body":"me. So, you know, it's your"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1081.22,"endTime":1085.18,"body":"chances of, you know, having"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1085.18,"endTime":1088.93,"body":"someone want to scratch your"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1085.18,"endTime":1088.93,"body":"eyeballs out, is really high"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1088.93,"endTime":1091.48,"body":"when you're trying to help"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1088.93,"endTime":1091.48,"body":"someone in enemy mode, you know."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1091.93,"endTime":1097.69,"body":"So the first thing is enemy mode"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1091.93,"endTime":1097.69,"body":"is extremely contagious. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1098.6200000000001,"endTime":1104.68,"body":"So you have to be good at"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1098.6200000000001,"endTime":1104.68,"body":"keeping yourself out of it. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1104.68,"endTime":1109.24,"body":"I think that's where most people"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1104.68,"endTime":1109.24,"body":"get into trouble instead of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1109.24,"endTime":1112.21,"body":"learning how to be good at"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1109.24,"endTime":1112.21,"body":"keeping themselves out of it."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1113.08,"endTime":1116.71,"body":"They try to be get better at"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1113.08,"endTime":1116.71,"body":"getting the other person out of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1116.71,"endTime":1121.24,"body":"it first. But, you know, your"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1116.71,"endTime":1121.24,"body":"chances of dropping into enemy"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1121.24,"endTime":1125.47,"body":"mode are way too high. When I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1121.24,"endTime":1125.47,"body":"was a lifeguard, and I was"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1125.47,"endTime":1129.46,"body":"taking lifeguard lessons, they"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1125.47,"endTime":1129.46,"body":"said, you know, every time you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1129.46,"endTime":1133.78,"body":"go to rescue someone, if you go"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1129.46,"endTime":1133.78,"body":"swimming out there, that person"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1133.78,"endTime":1136.45,"body":"is going to try to climb up on"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1133.78,"endTime":1136.45,"body":"top of you and they'll drowned"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1136.45,"endTime":1141.07,"body":"you unless you dive down before"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1136.45,"endTime":1141.07,"body":"you get to them and push them"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1141.07,"endTime":1144.67,"body":"up. And then they won't want to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1141.07,"endTime":1144.67,"body":"drowned you because they'll feel"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1144.67,"endTime":1148.93,"body":"like you're the one that's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1144.67,"endTime":1148.93,"body":"pushing them up. And so the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1148.96,"endTime":1153.13,"body":"actual reason why most people go"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1148.96,"endTime":1153.13,"body":"into enemy mode is because it"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1153.13,"endTime":1156.85,"body":"feels like their status has been"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1153.13,"endTime":1156.85,"body":"challenged. Yeah, brain is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1156.85,"endTime":1161.83,"body":"extremely sensitive to status."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1156.85,"endTime":1161.83,"body":"So if I tried to raise your"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1161.83,"endTime":1166.51,"body":"status, and the best status to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1161.83,"endTime":1166.51,"body":"raise as a, you're a child of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1166.51,"endTime":1171.52,"body":"God, and we're going to act like"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1166.51,"endTime":1171.52,"body":"children of God, you'll feel me"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1171.88,"endTime":1175.3600000000001,"body":"pushing you out of enemy mode,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1171.88,"endTime":1175.3600000000001,"body":"in the sense that I'm lifting"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1175.3600000000001,"endTime":1178.24,"body":"who you are. If I try to argue"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1175.3600000000001,"endTime":1178.24,"body":"with you and show you you're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1178.24,"endTime":1180.82,"body":"wrong, it'll feel like you're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1178.24,"endTime":1180.82,"body":"trying to drown me more by"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1180.82,"endTime":1185.56,"body":"pushing my status down and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1180.82,"endTime":1185.56,"body":"telling me how wrong I am. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1185.56,"endTime":1188.98,"body":"then I will, you know, I lock"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1185.56,"endTime":1188.98,"body":"into enemy mode even more"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1188.98,"endTime":1195.22,"body":"fiercely. But for many of us to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1188.98,"endTime":1195.22,"body":"push somebody else's status up"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1195.22,"endTime":1199.57,"body":"as a child of God means we have"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1195.22,"endTime":1199.57,"body":"to be connected with God at that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1199.57,"endTime":1202.78,"body":"point ourselves, right? Unless"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1199.57,"endTime":1202.78,"body":"we're feeling like a child of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1202.78,"endTime":1206.44,"body":"God right at that moment. We're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1202.78,"endTime":1206.44,"body":"just going to feel like we're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1206.44,"endTime":1209.71,"body":"getting attacked by this other"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1206.44,"endTime":1209.71,"body":"person. And you know, you can't"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1209.71,"endTime":1210.58,"body":"let them do that."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1211.029,"endTime":1213.789,"body":"Yeah, one of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1211.029,"endTime":1213.789,"body":"things that I've been thinking"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1213.789,"endTime":1218.769,"body":"about a lot lately is that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1213.789,"endTime":1218.769,"body":"identity as child of God, is as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1218.769,"endTime":1222.219,"body":"crucial to everything that that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1218.769,"endTime":1222.219,"body":"we do that we could actually now"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1222.249,"endTime":1227.229,"body":"love one another. Well, and we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1222.249,"endTime":1227.229,"body":"could enter into these"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1227.259,"endTime":1231.759,"body":"conversations, these"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1227.259,"endTime":1231.759,"body":"relationships. For me, I lived"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1232.269,"endTime":1236.529,"body":"many years in the Middle East, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1232.269,"endTime":1236.529,"body":"worked with Syrian refugees with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1236.529,"endTime":1240.609,"body":"Muslims, and introduce them to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1236.529,"endTime":1240.609,"body":"Jesus. And for me, it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1240.609,"endTime":1245.079,"body":"arguing about Jesus that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1240.609,"endTime":1245.079,"body":"actually got anybody interested"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1245.079,"endTime":1250.629,"body":"in him. It was sharing a new"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1245.079,"endTime":1250.629,"body":"hope and a new identity in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1250.629,"endTime":1255.039,"body":"Jesus. So how do we one of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1250.629,"endTime":1255.039,"body":"things you said in your book is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1255.039,"endTime":1258.249,"body":"that escaping enemy mode"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1255.039,"endTime":1258.249,"body":"requires a large amount of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1258.279,"endTime":1261.789,"body":"compassion, attachment and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1258.279,"endTime":1261.789,"body":"identity. So How do we get that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1261.789,"endTime":1269.859,"body":"identity and us and, and others"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1261.789,"endTime":1269.859,"body":"in a way where they actually can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1269.859,"endTime":1273.009,"body":"realize their true identity?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1273.91,"endTime":1277.15,"body":"I think the your"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1273.91,"endTime":1277.15,"body":"middle eastern experience is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1277.15,"endTime":1279.97,"body":"going to help you with the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1277.15,"endTime":1279.97,"body":"answer to this a lot better than"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1279.97,"endTime":1285.07,"body":"most American listeners are"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1279.97,"endTime":1285.07,"body":"going to be able to. And all as"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1285.13,"endTime":1290.47,"body":"circles around the apoptotic"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1285.13,"endTime":1290.47,"body":"period at age 14, which, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1290.47,"endTime":1293.32,"body":"know, you might not have been"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1290.47,"endTime":1293.32,"body":"thinking about or the listener"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1293.32,"endTime":1298.78,"body":"might not have. But up until age"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1293.32,"endTime":1298.78,"body":"14, your brain is trying to grow"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1298.78,"endTime":1303.04,"body":"an individual identity, who am I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1298.78,"endTime":1303.04,"body":"as an individual, what's all"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1303.04,"endTime":1306.7,"body":"about me. And that's really"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1303.04,"endTime":1306.7,"body":"where most Westerners stay the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1306.7,"endTime":1310.3,"body":"rest of their lives,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1306.7,"endTime":1310.3,"body":"consciously, but their brain at"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1310.3,"endTime":1315.79,"body":"age 14 switches so that the my"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1310.3,"endTime":1315.79,"body":"survival is no longer as"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1315.79,"endTime":1321.28,"body":"important as the survival of my"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1315.79,"endTime":1321.28,"body":"people. And my people become the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1321.28,"endTime":1325.45,"body":"ones that can tell me who I am,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1321.28,"endTime":1325.45,"body":"up until then any individual"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1325.45,"endTime":1328.93,"body":"could tell you who you were, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1325.45,"endTime":1328.93,"body":"know, usually your parents"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1328.93,"endTime":1332.41,"body":"family, it could be a teacher, a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1328.93,"endTime":1332.41,"body":"lot of things like that. But you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1332.41,"endTime":1335.74,"body":"notice this peer group thing"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1332.41,"endTime":1335.74,"body":"that takes off around age 14?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1335.89,"endTime":1339.79,"body":"Yeah, well, that's the brain in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1335.89,"endTime":1339.79,"body":"search of a group identity. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1339.79,"endTime":1342.97,"body":"now your group identity has the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1339.79,"endTime":1342.97,"body":"right to tell you who you are,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1342.97,"endTime":1347.29,"body":"how you work, how you should"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1342.97,"endTime":1347.29,"body":"react to things, what you're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1347.29,"endTime":1351.28,"body":"like, you know, what you should"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1347.29,"endTime":1351.28,"body":"enjoy and not enjoy? And, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1351.28,"endTime":1354.94,"body":"know, teams do a pretty nasty"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1351.28,"endTime":1354.94,"body":"job on each other a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1354.94,"endTime":1359.05,"body":"times. Yeah. Okay, so But now,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1354.94,"endTime":1359.05,"body":"your brain is not going to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1359.05,"endTime":1362.77,"body":"listen to individuals anymore."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1359.05,"endTime":1362.77,"body":"They're gonna it's looking for a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1362.77,"endTime":1366.04,"body":"group, who are the people that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1362.77,"endTime":1366.04,"body":"can tell me what who am I and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1366.04,"endTime":1370.45,"body":"what am I like, and you realize"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1366.04,"endTime":1370.45,"body":"that one of the huge problems"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1370.45,"endTime":1374.8600000000001,"body":"for Muslims becoming Christians"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1370.45,"endTime":1374.8600000000001,"body":"is the shift of their identity"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1374.8600000000001,"endTime":1378.88,"body":"group, you have to be willing"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1374.8600000000001,"endTime":1378.88,"body":"to, you know, essentially give"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1378.88,"endTime":1382.66,"body":"up your identity group because"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1378.88,"endTime":1382.66,"body":"of the way the the situation is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1382.66,"endTime":1386.77,"body":"polarized. And so now you move"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1382.66,"endTime":1386.77,"body":"over to Christians, and you say,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1386.77,"endTime":1390.94,"body":"Well, who are your identity"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1386.77,"endTime":1390.94,"body":"group and the West. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1391.33,"endTime":1395.14,"body":"suddenly, it's not an attachment"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1391.33,"endTime":1395.14,"body":"group. These aren't the people"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1395.14,"endTime":1397.3600000000001,"body":"that share life with you. These"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1395.14,"endTime":1397.3600000000001,"body":"aren't the people, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1397.3600000000001,"endTime":1401.8600000000001,"body":"they get they share some beliefs"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1397.3600000000001,"endTime":1401.8600000000001,"body":"in common. But that beliefs are"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1401.8600000000001,"endTime":1406.03,"body":"way, way, way, way, way down the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1401.8600000000001,"endTime":1406.03,"body":"list of important things for the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1406.06,"endTime":1410.68,"body":"brain. You know, you're, we're,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1406.06,"endTime":1410.68,"body":"our brain has changed much more"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1410.68,"endTime":1415.21,"body":"by who we love than what we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1410.68,"endTime":1415.21,"body":"believe. And so if our people"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1415.42,"endTime":1418.06,"body":"say to us, you know, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1415.42,"endTime":1418.06,"body":"we're the kind of people that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1418.06,"endTime":1421.0,"body":"love our enemies, which by the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1418.06,"endTime":1421.0,"body":"way, you have to do if you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1421.0,"endTime":1424.6,"body":"become a Christian and a Muslim"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1421.0,"endTime":1424.6,"body":"country, right? Yeah, either do"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1424.6,"endTime":1429.16,"body":"that, or you fight everybody."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1424.6,"endTime":1429.16,"body":"Yep. And so, again, when it's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1429.16,"endTime":1432.46,"body":"not easy to do, it's a big"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1429.16,"endTime":1432.46,"body":"switch for the brain. It's not"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1432.46,"endTime":1435.1,"body":"how we're used to thinking, but"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1432.46,"endTime":1435.1,"body":"if that's how my people do it,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1435.55,"endTime":1440.53,"body":"then I'm, you know, I need to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1435.55,"endTime":1440.53,"body":"learn how and when I'm losing"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1440.53,"endTime":1444.34,"body":"it. And that feeling that my"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1440.53,"endTime":1444.34,"body":"people come around to go Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1444.34,"endTime":1447.25,"body":"know, that's really upsetting."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1444.34,"endTime":1447.25,"body":"And it's really hard when, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1447.25,"endTime":1451.3600000000001,"body":"know, you get treated badly, but"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1447.25,"endTime":1451.3600000000001,"body":"were people who love our"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1451.3600000000001,"endTime":1454.81,"body":"enemies, because we see in them"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1451.3600000000001,"endTime":1454.81,"body":"something that God, someone that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1454.81,"endTime":1458.53,"body":"God loves. And I'm sure you've"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1454.81,"endTime":1458.53,"body":"seen that and practice, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1458.53,"endTime":1460.42,"body":"might even have some good"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1458.53,"endTime":1460.42,"body":"stories about that."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1460.42,"endTime":1464.35,"body":"Yeah. Yep. And I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1460.42,"endTime":1464.35,"body":"Yeah, and I think that, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1464.35,"endTime":1467.38,"body":"know, one of the things that we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1464.35,"endTime":1467.38,"body":"talk a lot about, I think with,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1467.89,"endTime":1470.71,"body":"and and Middle Eastern contexts,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1467.89,"endTime":1470.71,"body":"they're very, it's a very"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1470.71,"endTime":1472.93,"body":"communal culture. And I think,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1470.71,"endTime":1472.93,"body":"you know, we're very"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1472.93,"endTime":1475.99,"body":"individualistic culture in the,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1472.93,"endTime":1475.99,"body":"in the west where we think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1475.99,"endTime":1481.3,"body":"individually, and I think maybe"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1475.99,"endTime":1481.3,"body":"that individualism and thinking"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1481.3,"endTime":1485.38,"body":"through what we what we know"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1481.3,"endTime":1485.38,"body":"what we believe is the highest"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1485.38,"endTime":1491.5,"body":"form of discipleship to Jesus in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1485.38,"endTime":1491.5,"body":"the west and not about to were"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1491.5,"endTime":1495.94,"body":"attached to communally. I wonder"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1491.5,"endTime":1495.94,"body":"why, if that's the reason why"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1495.94,"endTime":1500.17,"body":"people are saying, A there must"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1495.94,"endTime":1500.17,"body":"be something else other than"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1500.56,"endTime":1505.63,"body":"this faith that I've been"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1500.56,"endTime":1505.63,"body":"brought up in, because we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1505.63,"endTime":1508.15,"body":"working on that aspect alone."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1509.2,"endTime":1511.1200000000001,"body":"Yeah, we're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1509.2,"endTime":1511.1200000000001,"body":"certainly not doing much to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1511.1200000000001,"endTime":1516.7,"body":"create a people we, we create an"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1511.1200000000001,"endTime":1516.7,"body":"attendance we create an event,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1516.7,"endTime":1521.41,"body":"but we don't really focus much"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1516.7,"endTime":1521.41,"body":"on being a people. It's not"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1521.41,"endTime":1526.54,"body":"really built into the culture"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1521.41,"endTime":1526.54,"body":"and so be one of the odd things"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1526.54,"endTime":1530.1100000000001,"body":"about making disciples is when"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1526.54,"endTime":1530.1100000000001,"body":"Jesus gives a great commission."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1532.06,"endTime":1536.05,"body":"He's the way it's worded in the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1532.06,"endTime":1536.05,"body":"Greek is make disciples of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1536.05,"endTime":1541.21,"body":"yours. Teaching them to do"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1536.05,"endTime":1541.21,"body":"everything that I have"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1541.21,"endTime":1547.21,"body":"commanded. But we tried to make"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1541.21,"endTime":1547.21,"body":"disciples of Jesus teaching them"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1547.21,"endTime":1549.88,"body":"to do everything he commanded."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1547.21,"endTime":1549.88,"body":"But that relational element"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1549.88,"endTime":1552.52,"body":"where someone's actually"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1549.88,"endTime":1552.52,"body":"learning from me how to do it,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1552.7,"endTime":1557.74,"body":"yeah. Doesn't doesn't really"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1552.7,"endTime":1557.74,"body":"come across very well in the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1557.74,"endTime":1562.63,"body":"English and not in our in our"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1557.74,"endTime":1562.63,"body":"culture either and have, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1562.63,"endTime":1567.04,"body":"know when I've heard from"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1562.63,"endTime":1567.04,"body":"people, Muslims who became"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1567.04,"endTime":1571.1200000000001,"body":"Christians, many of them are"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1567.04,"endTime":1571.1200000000001,"body":"puzzled that the Christian"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1571.1200000000001,"endTime":1574.72,"body":"suddenly lost interest in them,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1571.1200000000001,"endTime":1574.72,"body":"once they've made the decision"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1574.75,"endTime":1578.74,"body":"and went on to say, Okay, I got"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1574.75,"endTime":1578.74,"body":"to go find somebody else, when"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1578.74,"endTime":1581.8,"body":"they thought the person was"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1578.74,"endTime":1581.8,"body":"inviting them into relationship"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1581.8,"endTime":1586.78,"body":"with them. And again, that's,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1581.8,"endTime":1586.78,"body":"you know, we got the beliefs"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1586.78,"endTime":1591.73,"body":"now. And so let me go looking"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1586.78,"endTime":1591.73,"body":"for somebody else permeates the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1591.76,"endTime":1595.84,"body":"the Western Church. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1591.76,"endTime":1595.84,"body":"therefore, it's hard for us to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1595.84,"endTime":1600.13,"body":"even imagine that love might"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1595.84,"endTime":1600.13,"body":"mean attachment. Wow. And yet I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1600.13,"endTime":1604.69,"body":"see if I look back at the Hebrew"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1600.13,"endTime":1604.69,"body":"words in particular, and the way"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1604.69,"endTime":1608.14,"body":"that they are used in the Greek,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1604.69,"endTime":1608.14,"body":"which is kind of stretching"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1608.14,"endTime":1613.09,"body":"Greek, because it wasn't quite"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1608.14,"endTime":1613.09,"body":"such a relational language. It"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1613.09,"endTime":1615.97,"body":"looks to me like it's talking"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1613.09,"endTime":1615.97,"body":"about a real attachment to other"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1615.97,"endTime":1620.26,"body":"people. And that's the essence"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1615.97,"endTime":1620.26,"body":"of salvation, we formed a new"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1620.26,"endTime":1626.83,"body":"attachment with a new God, and a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1620.26,"endTime":1626.83,"body":"new people who have the right to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1626.83,"endTime":1629.77,"body":"tell us who we're going to be"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1626.83,"endTime":1629.77,"body":"now. And our brain is actually"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1629.77,"endTime":1633.6100000000001,"body":"looking for that. In the West,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1629.77,"endTime":1633.6100000000001,"body":"we wander around trying to find"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1633.6100000000001,"endTime":1635.35,"body":"it without knowing what we're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1633.6100000000001,"endTime":1635.35,"body":"looking for."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1636.819,"endTime":1638.799,"body":"So if we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1636.819,"endTime":1638.799,"body":"wandering around not knowing"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1638.799,"endTime":1641.919,"body":"what we're looking for, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1638.799,"endTime":1641.919,"body":"we're trying to find that, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1641.949,"endTime":1648.609,"body":"we're also because we're in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1641.949,"endTime":1648.609,"body":"enemy mode so easily, we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1648.609,"endTime":1654.549,"body":"having an us versus them"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1648.609,"endTime":1654.549,"body":"mentality. How do we find an us"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1654.789,"endTime":1658.479,"body":"community when we're constantly"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1654.789,"endTime":1658.479,"body":"in enemy mode?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1661.18,"endTime":1664.09,"body":"Oh, well, the nice"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1661.18,"endTime":1664.09,"body":"thing about enemy mode is no one"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1664.09,"endTime":1670.54,"body":"really likes it. The brain is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1664.09,"endTime":1670.54,"body":"already predisposed to wish you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1670.54,"endTime":1675.19,"body":"weren't there. Yeah, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1670.54,"endTime":1675.19,"body":"and so, if we actually begin to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1675.19,"endTime":1679.66,"body":"experience, joy and peace, which"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1675.19,"endTime":1679.66,"body":"is what the brain would rather"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1679.66,"endTime":1684.04,"body":"have, we are drawn to all those"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1679.66,"endTime":1684.04,"body":"who are seemed glad to be with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1684.04,"endTime":1690.1,"body":"us, that's joy, and who let us"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1684.04,"endTime":1690.1,"body":"rest when we need to. And that's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1690.1,"endTime":1695.83,"body":"the peace part of it. And, and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1690.1,"endTime":1695.83,"body":"so, if we have a fellowship in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1695.83,"endTime":1700.0,"body":"which we are glad to be with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1695.83,"endTime":1700.0,"body":"each other, and we let each"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1700.0,"endTime":1704.56,"body":"other rest in that, people are"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1700.0,"endTime":1704.56,"body":"drawn into that, that's where"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1704.56,"endTime":1710.8600000000001,"body":"small groups become very, very"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1704.56,"endTime":1710.8600000000001,"body":"effective. The problem is, as"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1710.8600000000001,"endTime":1716.8600000000001,"body":"soon as I get confused about who"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1710.8600000000001,"endTime":1716.8600000000001,"body":"I am, yeah, most Westerners"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1716.8600000000001,"endTime":1719.92,"body":"think the thing to do is to talk"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1716.8600000000001,"endTime":1719.92,"body":"through all of my feelings of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1719.92,"endTime":1724.39,"body":"being upset until you understand"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1719.92,"endTime":1724.39,"body":"just how upset I am. And since"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1724.39,"endTime":1728.14,"body":"we want compassion, we want the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1724.39,"endTime":1728.14,"body":"other person to be as upset"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1728.14,"endTime":1734.8,"body":"about it, as we are. So rather"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1728.14,"endTime":1734.8,"body":"than getting together, to find"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1734.8,"endTime":1738.7,"body":"out how God sees it, and share"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1734.8,"endTime":1738.7,"body":"peace and joy, we get together"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1738.94,"endTime":1742.51,"body":"to share our upset and see if we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1738.94,"endTime":1742.51,"body":"can't all support each other in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1742.51,"endTime":1746.41,"body":"that. And those upset, I'll push"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1742.51,"endTime":1746.41,"body":"us in the enemy mode direction."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1746.83,"endTime":1751.0,"body":"Whereas other people as God sees"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1746.83,"endTime":1751.0,"body":"them, doesn't take away the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1751.0,"endTime":1754.75,"body":"upset. But it does take away the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1751.0,"endTime":1754.75,"body":"agitation, but like, Oh, of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1754.75,"endTime":1757.8700000000001,"body":"course, they're upsetting me."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1754.75,"endTime":1757.8700000000001,"body":"They're not who God wants them"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1757.8700000000001,"endTime":1762.22,"body":"to be. So let me Forgive them"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1757.8700000000001,"endTime":1762.22,"body":"which, you know, Jesus was"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1762.22,"endTime":1766.54,"body":"pretty clear about that God's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1762.22,"endTime":1766.54,"body":"gonna forgive us, using the same"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1766.54,"endTime":1771.49,"body":"standard we use to forgive"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1766.54,"endTime":1771.49,"body":"others. And, you know, they know"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1771.49,"endTime":1775.03,"body":"not what they're doing seems to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1771.49,"endTime":1775.03,"body":"be pretty big on Jesus standards"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1775.03,"endTime":1778.8700000000001,"body":"of you know, why he would"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1775.03,"endTime":1778.8700000000001,"body":"forgive people, and most people"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1778.8700000000001,"endTime":1782.8600000000001,"body":"have no idea who they are. Now,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1778.8700000000001,"endTime":1782.8600000000001,"body":"preaching can help. You can give"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1782.8600000000001,"endTime":1787.09,"body":"people the ideas, here's what"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1782.8600000000001,"endTime":1787.09,"body":"we're like. But most people then"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1787.09,"endTime":1790.24,"body":"try to say, Okay, now how am I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1787.09,"endTime":1790.24,"body":"going to force that? Which"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1790.24,"endTime":1794.2,"body":"Dallas called sin management?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1790.24,"endTime":1794.2,"body":"Instead of? How am I going to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1794.2,"endTime":1797.71,"body":"feel about this the way that God"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1794.2,"endTime":1797.71,"body":"does? Well, to do that, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1797.71,"endTime":1801.07,"body":"going to have to get closer to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1797.71,"endTime":1801.07,"body":"him. And again, this is the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1801.07,"endTime":1806.17,"body":"spiritual formation, things that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1801.07,"endTime":1806.17,"body":"make room for that. But then,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1806.47,"endTime":1810.73,"body":"start noticing the thoughts that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1806.47,"endTime":1810.73,"body":"God puts in our mind, and at"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1810.73,"endTime":1813.94,"body":"least wonder about them. Like,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1810.73,"endTime":1813.94,"body":"how could God be thinking that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1814.0,"endTime":1814.93,"body":"I'm so mad?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1818.049,"endTime":1820.179,"body":"I'd love to get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1818.049,"endTime":1820.179,"body":"a little bit into the science"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1820.179,"endTime":1824.919,"body":"behind this. But before we enter"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1820.179,"endTime":1824.919,"body":"into that, one of the questions"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1824.919,"endTime":1830.559,"body":"that that I have is how does"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1824.919,"endTime":1830.559,"body":"this work when it comes with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1830.559,"endTime":1835.629,"body":"power dynamics, when there are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1830.559,"endTime":1835.629,"body":"people that have more power in a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1835.629,"endTime":1841.419,"body":"relationship when they're there"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1835.629,"endTime":1841.419,"body":"and enemy modes, say we have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1841.419,"endTime":1845.979,"body":"less power, and we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1841.419,"endTime":1845.979,"body":"figure out a way forward, but it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1845.979,"endTime":1849.699,"body":"looks like it's just the leader"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1845.979,"endTime":1849.699,"body":"wanting to do what they want to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1849.699,"endTime":1850.569,"body":"do to win."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1852.069,"endTime":1855.519,"body":"One of the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1852.069,"endTime":1855.519,"body":"interesting parts of the social"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1855.519,"endTime":1858.909,"body":"psychology research indicates"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1855.519,"endTime":1858.909,"body":"anytime we give people more"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1858.909,"endTime":1862.599,"body":"power even if you warn them"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1858.909,"endTime":1862.599,"body":"about the effect, they become"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1862.599,"endTime":1869.829,"body":"more sociopathic. So when people"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1862.599,"endTime":1869.829,"body":"have power, the brain concludes,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1869.829,"endTime":1873.159,"body":"I don't have to care about how"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1869.829,"endTime":1873.159,"body":"you feel, I can make you do it."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1874.119,"endTime":1879.669,"body":"And so the real problem was"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1874.119,"endTime":1879.669,"body":"power. And we think empowerment"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1879.669,"endTime":1883.209,"body":"is going to be the solution. Or"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1879.669,"endTime":1883.209,"body":"if we got more power now we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1883.209,"endTime":1886.989,"body":"could fight back or whatever."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1883.209,"endTime":1886.989,"body":"You notice how far that's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1886.989,"endTime":1890.859,"body":"getting us with the conflicts in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1886.989,"endTime":1890.859,"body":"the country that involve trying"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1890.859,"endTime":1896.109,"body":"to empower people. You know, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1890.859,"endTime":1896.109,"body":"get rid of a colonial government"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1896.109,"endTime":1899.769,"body":"and the government that takes"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1896.109,"endTime":1899.769,"body":"over is likely to be equally"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1899.769,"endTime":1903.309,"body":"sociopathic, you know, different"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1899.769,"endTime":1903.309,"body":"preferences, but just as"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1903.309,"endTime":1911.559,"body":"uncaring. So this is the human"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1903.309,"endTime":1911.559,"body":"problem. And a lot of it has to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1911.559,"endTime":1917.829,"body":"do with the way that we choose"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1911.559,"endTime":1917.829,"body":"leaders. So since we choose"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1917.829,"endTime":1922.869,"body":"leaders primarily in the West,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1917.829,"endTime":1922.869,"body":"so that they get results, and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1922.869,"endTime":1925.689,"body":"make us look good, those are two"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1922.869,"endTime":1925.689,"body":"things you have to do you have"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1925.689,"endTime":1931.239,"body":"to get results and make us look"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1925.689,"endTime":1931.239,"body":"good. And if you fail on either"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1931.239,"endTime":1934.089,"body":"of those, sooner or later, we'll"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1931.239,"endTime":1934.089,"body":"replace you with somebody else."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1934.3890000000001,"endTime":1938.409,"body":"Well, that's that favors"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1934.3890000000001,"endTime":1938.409,"body":"narcissistic, sociopathic kinds"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1938.409,"endTime":1944.319,"body":"of leadership. And they know"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1938.409,"endTime":1944.319,"body":"that the, you know, their group"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1944.319,"endTime":1948.489,"body":"wants them to succeed and make"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1944.319,"endTime":1948.489,"body":"them look good. So how do you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1948.6390000000001,"endTime":1951.579,"body":"succeed? Well, the best ways to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1948.6390000000001,"endTime":1951.579,"body":"convince other people that we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1951.579,"endTime":1957.189,"body":"have enemies, and we're going to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1951.579,"endTime":1957.189,"body":"beat them? Yeah. So that gives,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1957.609,"endTime":1960.819,"body":"as long as they're doing that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1957.609,"endTime":1960.819,"body":"with leadership, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1960.819,"endTime":1966.189,"body":"keep selecting leaders, whether"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1960.819,"endTime":1966.189,"body":"it's in church, or politics, or"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1967.3890000000001,"endTime":1973.179,"body":"business, that operate in enemy"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1967.3890000000001,"endTime":1973.179,"body":"mode, a large part of the time"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1973.179,"endTime":1977.439,"body":"in order to make us all win and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1973.179,"endTime":1977.439,"body":"make them all lose. So how do"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1977.439,"endTime":1982.449,"body":"you how do you get around that?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1977.439,"endTime":1982.449,"body":"Well, now the question is, are"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1982.449,"endTime":1988.299,"body":"we going to tell even our"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1982.449,"endTime":1988.299,"body":"leaders, that we're not the kind"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1988.299,"endTime":1992.349,"body":"of people that are out to make"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1988.299,"endTime":1992.349,"body":"other people lose, we're the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1993.459,"endTime":1997.929,"body":"kind of people who are out to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1993.459,"endTime":1997.929,"body":"bring out in others, the person"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1997.929,"endTime":2001.109,"body":"that God had in mind, for them,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":1997.929,"endTime":2001.109,"body":"their best self, the self that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2001.319,"endTime":2005.579,"body":"probably has never existed. So"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2001.319,"endTime":2005.579,"body":"when we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2006.029,"endTime":2008.669,"body":"bringing out a best self, we're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2006.029,"endTime":2008.669,"body":"not talking about the best human"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2008.669,"endTime":2015.059,"body":"self, we're talking about what"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2008.669,"endTime":2015.059,"body":"God spoke through St. Paul, he"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2015.059,"endTime":2018.959,"body":"said, you know, the, the good"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2015.059,"endTime":2018.959,"body":"work, the good works, that God"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2018.959,"endTime":2021.779,"body":"prepared ahead of time that you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2018.959,"endTime":2021.779,"body":"should walk in them Ephesians"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2021.779,"endTime":2026.6390000000001,"body":"210, that's being your self,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2021.779,"endTime":2026.6390000000001,"body":"that's who God was made made you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2026.6390000000001,"endTime":2033.239,"body":"to be. And, you know, we're not"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2026.6390000000001,"endTime":2033.239,"body":"even looking at that. And it"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2033.239,"endTime":2037.859,"body":"used to be, maybe 100 years ago,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2033.239,"endTime":2037.859,"body":"the church had a lot more songs"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2037.859,"endTime":2044.219,"body":"that saying to each other about"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2037.859,"endTime":2044.219,"body":"who we are. And, you know, how"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2044.219,"endTime":2046.8890000000001,"body":"we get along, and how we relate"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2044.219,"endTime":2046.8890000000001,"body":"to each other, most of those"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2046.8890000000001,"endTime":2052.769,"body":"songs are, are gone now that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2046.8890000000001,"endTime":2052.769,"body":"they're not in fashion. So we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2052.769,"endTime":2058.379,"body":"have songs, singing to God about"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2052.769,"endTime":2058.379,"body":"who he is, which is good also,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2058.439,"endTime":2062.609,"body":"but with the voice that says,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2058.439,"endTime":2062.609,"body":"And now given that God is good,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2062.909,"endTime":2067.439,"body":"what are his children? Like?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2062.909,"endTime":2067.439,"body":"Yeah, that message is kind of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2067.649,"endTime":2073.5589999999997,"body":"been deleted, or at least"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2067.649,"endTime":2073.5589999999997,"body":"greatly decreased when it comes"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2073.5589999999997,"endTime":2079.049,"body":"to handling the real problems of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2073.5589999999997,"endTime":2079.049,"body":"life. So the fun thing we've"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2079.049,"endTime":2084.029,"body":"noticed is that when a community"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2079.049,"endTime":2084.029,"body":"decides we're not the kind of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2084.029,"endTime":2086.8489999999997,"body":"people that put up with self"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2084.029,"endTime":2086.8489999999997,"body":"justification, we're not the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2086.8489999999997,"endTime":2091.259,"body":"kind of people that will make"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2086.8489999999997,"endTime":2091.259,"body":"ourselves look good. We're the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2091.259,"endTime":2097.139,"body":"kind of people who bring out in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2091.259,"endTime":2097.139,"body":"each other what God wants to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2097.2889999999998,"endTime":2102.479,"body":"grow there. The leader doesn't"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2097.2889999999998,"endTime":2102.479,"body":"have the backing. If you got a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2102.479,"endTime":2105.569,"body":"narcissistic, narcissistic,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2102.479,"endTime":2105.569,"body":"sociopathic leader, yeah, he"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2105.569,"endTime":2110.429,"body":"doesn't have the backing to pull"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2105.569,"endTime":2110.429,"body":"off his his plan anymore. You"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2110.429,"endTime":2116.459,"body":"know, he can't get the votes,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2110.429,"endTime":2116.459,"body":"you might say, yeah. And in the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2116.459,"endTime":2121.049,"body":"cases where the people have done"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2116.459,"endTime":2121.049,"body":"the changing, most of the time"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2121.049,"endTime":2124.439,"body":"the pastor is given in and I'm"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2121.049,"endTime":2124.439,"body":"talking about pastors leaves,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2124.439,"endTime":2127.139,"body":"because that's what I'm talking"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2124.439,"endTime":2127.139,"body":"about. Now, I'm not really so"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2127.139,"endTime":2131.249,"body":"much involved in politics, but"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2127.139,"endTime":2131.249,"body":"within church communities, the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2131.249,"endTime":2135.779,"body":"pastor's gone, oh, the people"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2131.249,"endTime":2135.779,"body":"are really looking for something"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2135.779,"endTime":2139.169,"body":"else. And it's a few of them"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2135.779,"endTime":2139.169,"body":"have left. So while I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2139.169,"endTime":2144.629,"body":"go and find a bigger pond to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2139.169,"endTime":2144.629,"body":"fish, but many cases they've"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2144.629,"endTime":2148.379,"body":"made the change and when the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2144.629,"endTime":2148.379,"body":"pastor has been the one to say,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2148.679,"endTime":2154.679,"body":"I'm going to teach you what our"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2148.679,"endTime":2154.679,"body":"identity is like. The people are"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2154.679,"endTime":2159.899,"body":"amazed. And they do go ahead,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2154.679,"endTime":2159.899,"body":"they keep attacking him. But a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2159.899,"endTime":2163.949,"body":"pastor who says You don't want"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2159.899,"endTime":2163.949,"body":"to stay close to God. And I knew"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2163.949,"endTime":2167.639,"body":"what people would do if I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2163.949,"endTime":2167.639,"body":"started this message, is that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2167.639,"endTime":2170.159,"body":"going to come attacking me? So"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2167.639,"endTime":2170.159,"body":"I'm going to use that as an"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2170.159,"endTime":2176.729,"body":"experience, they can have to see"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2170.159,"endTime":2176.729,"body":"how I love my enemies. That is a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2176.729,"endTime":2180.449,"body":"more mixed result. Yeah, because"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2176.729,"endTime":2180.449,"body":"there's often a power group and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2180.449,"endTime":2185.219,"body":"church that wants to throw them"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2180.449,"endTime":2185.219,"body":"out, and they'll do it. But,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2186.299,"endTime":2189.899,"body":"again, we've seen some successes"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2186.299,"endTime":2189.899,"body":"from that point of view. So it's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2189.899,"endTime":2194.219,"body":"a funny thing. But the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2189.899,"endTime":2194.219,"body":"congregation again, seems to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2194.219,"endTime":2197.879,"body":"have a larger influence on how"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2194.219,"endTime":2197.879,"body":"it's going to turn out than the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2197.879,"endTime":2201.359,"body":"pastor alone. And of course, if"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2197.879,"endTime":2201.359,"body":"they were looking for a group"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2201.359,"endTime":2205.379,"body":"identity within the brain, that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2201.359,"endTime":2205.379,"body":"would, that would be true. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2206.009,"endTime":2209.639,"body":"So but you're asking this as a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2206.009,"endTime":2209.639,"body":"preview to another question. So"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2209.669,"endTime":2211.469,"body":"let's go back to what you wanted"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2209.669,"endTime":2211.469,"body":"to ask."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2212.4,"endTime":2216.9,"body":"Yeah, well, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2212.4,"endTime":2216.9,"body":"was. I think you answered my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2216.9,"endTime":2219.2400000000002,"body":"question. Well, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2216.9,"endTime":2219.2400000000002,"body":"I'd love to get into the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2219.2400000000002,"endTime":2224.25,"body":"science, and how you discovered"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2219.2400000000002,"endTime":2224.25,"body":"the science behind enemy mode?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2226.619,"endTime":2230.849,"body":"Well, yes, first of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2226.619,"endTime":2230.849,"body":"all, I read 1000s and 1000s, and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2230.849,"endTime":2236.909,"body":"1000s of pages. But God had set"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2230.849,"endTime":2236.909,"body":"me up for this a long, long time"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2236.909,"endTime":2243.059,"body":"ago, in that, when I was even in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2236.909,"endTime":2243.059,"body":"graduate school, and and the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2243.059,"endTime":2247.889,"body":"years afterwards, I would apply"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2243.059,"endTime":2247.889,"body":"for positions that I thought"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2247.919,"endTime":2253.169,"body":"would suit me for being a Laker"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2247.919,"endTime":2253.169,"body":"counselor for missionaries, and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2253.169,"endTime":2256.469,"body":"pastors, which is what I was"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2253.169,"endTime":2256.469,"body":"thinking to be. But I kept"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2256.469,"endTime":2262.109,"body":"getting assigned to these brain"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2256.469,"endTime":2262.109,"body":"study units and neurological"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2262.109,"endTime":2266.009,"body":"assessment and neurological"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2262.109,"endTime":2266.009,"body":"damage. And, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2266.009,"endTime":2269.249,"body":"writing all these reports on"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2266.009,"endTime":2269.249,"body":"people who rode riding their"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2269.249,"endTime":2275.909,"body":"motorcycle too fast and ran into"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2269.249,"endTime":2275.909,"body":"a tree or got a concussion from"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2275.909,"endTime":2279.899,"body":"a bomb explosion in the war"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2275.909,"endTime":2279.899,"body":"veterans and these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2279.899,"endTime":2283.289,"body":"things, or had a stroke,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2279.899,"endTime":2283.289,"body":"thinking to myself, what a waste"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2283.289,"endTime":2289.169,"body":"of my, my talent, you know, but"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2283.289,"endTime":2289.169,"body":"I got very intimately involved"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2289.169,"endTime":2293.459,"body":"with the brain before there was"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2289.169,"endTime":2293.459,"body":"even brain scans. And I thought"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2293.459,"endTime":2299.579,"body":"all of that was pretty much a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2293.459,"endTime":2299.579,"body":"waste of time. So then, we're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2299.579,"endTime":2302.669,"body":"working with all these trauma"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2299.579,"endTime":2302.669,"body":"victims. And there's some of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2302.669,"endTime":2306.389,"body":"them that all of the experts we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2302.669,"endTime":2306.389,"body":"were working with just said, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2306.389,"endTime":2310.169,"body":"know, they're beyond the range"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2306.389,"endTime":2310.169,"body":"of help. So nothing can be done"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2310.169,"endTime":2315.359,"body":"for people with that much"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2310.169,"endTime":2315.359,"body":"damage. And at that point,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2316.499,"endTime":2322.469,"body":"brochure arrived in my office"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2316.499,"endTime":2322.469,"body":"from conference that nobody, I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2322.499,"endTime":2325.079,"body":"didn't know anybody, and I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2322.499,"endTime":2325.079,"body":"didn't like the organization."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2325.589,"endTime":2328.589,"body":"And so I went, throw it in the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2325.589,"endTime":2328.589,"body":"trash. And I tried throwing it"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2328.589,"endTime":2332.729,"body":"three times, and it wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2328.589,"endTime":2332.729,"body":"leave my hand. And so I finally"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2332.729,"endTime":2336.719,"body":"looked at it. And it's sort of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2332.729,"endTime":2336.719,"body":"like God's saying, said to me,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2336.989,"endTime":2339.599,"body":"you know, someone needs to go"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2336.989,"endTime":2339.599,"body":"there. Well, that was the last"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2339.599,"endTime":2343.559,"body":"thing I wanted to do. So we got"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2339.599,"endTime":2343.559,"body":"some intern that had no excuse"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2343.559,"endTime":2347.279,"body":"that weekend to go to the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2343.559,"endTime":2347.279,"body":"conference. And he came back"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2347.279,"endTime":2350.909,"body":"with big eyes and a whole set of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2347.279,"endTime":2350.909,"body":"cassette tapes. I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2350.909,"endTime":2354.2690000000002,"body":"you remember cassette tapes."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2350.909,"endTime":2354.2690000000002,"body":"Yeah, the entire conference,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2354.359,"endTime":2359.249,"body":"said this guy wrote, read his"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2354.359,"endTime":2359.249,"body":"manuscript, his book is very,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2359.249,"endTime":2363.329,"body":"very boring. But I didn't"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2359.249,"endTime":2363.329,"body":"understand much except that he"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2363.329,"endTime":2367.109,"body":"explained all the science behind"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2363.329,"endTime":2367.109,"body":"the problems that we're having."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2367.589,"endTime":2371.009,"body":"And it matched with the maturity"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2367.589,"endTime":2371.009,"body":"and development things that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2371.009,"endTime":2374.969,"body":"we're talking about. So I was"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2371.009,"endTime":2374.969,"body":"finally forced to listen to the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2375.119,"endTime":2378.749,"body":"lecture about the brain, and how"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2375.119,"endTime":2378.749,"body":"it develops based on"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2378.749,"endTime":2383.039,"body":"relationship. And suddenly,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2378.749,"endTime":2383.039,"body":"things began to fall in place."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2383.549,"endTime":2386.369,"body":"And it turns out that the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2383.549,"endTime":2386.369,"body":"people, no one to help were the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2386.369,"endTime":2391.709,"body":"people that did not have a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2386.369,"endTime":2391.709,"body":"working relational attachment to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2391.709,"endTime":2396.479,"body":"another human being. Often they"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2391.709,"endTime":2396.479,"body":"were raised by people who had"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2396.719,"endTime":2400.829,"body":"severe psychiatric disorders."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2396.719,"endTime":2400.829,"body":"Some of them were criminally"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2400.829,"endTime":2404.429,"body":"insane. They were in the, in the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2400.829,"endTime":2404.429,"body":"prison for the criminally insane"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2404.429,"endTime":2408.659,"body":"and the area, and they had never"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2404.429,"endTime":2408.659,"body":"been able to form a working"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2408.659,"endTime":2411.929,"body":"attachment with other people."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2408.659,"endTime":2411.929,"body":"They could not figure out how"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2411.929,"endTime":2415.139,"body":"God worked. Yeah, because their"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2411.929,"endTime":2415.139,"body":"map for figuring out"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2415.139,"endTime":2417.779,"body":"relationships was totally"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2415.139,"endTime":2417.779,"body":"screwed up. I mean, they're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2417.779,"endTime":2421.139,"body":"expecting all the wrong things,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2417.779,"endTime":2421.139,"body":"and not looking for the right"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2421.139,"endTime":2426.899,"body":"thing. So suddenly, how the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2421.139,"endTime":2426.899,"body":"brain learned that and where it"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2426.899,"endTime":2431.969,"body":"learned, it became very, very"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2426.899,"endTime":2431.969,"body":"interesting to me. So I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2432.539,"endTime":2436.859,"body":"basically said, Well, let's try"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2432.539,"endTime":2436.859,"body":"and see if we can, we can repair"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2437.129,"endTime":2440.639,"body":"their bad learning. Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2437.129,"endTime":2440.639,"body":"that makes a difference to their"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2440.639,"endTime":2444.899,"body":"being able to connect with God."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2440.639,"endTime":2444.899,"body":"And basically, these are the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2444.899,"endTime":2448.649,"body":"brain's relational circuits. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2444.899,"endTime":2448.649,"body":"we discovered while the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2448.649,"endTime":2452.939,"body":"relational circuits were up and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2448.649,"endTime":2452.939,"body":"running, they were actually able"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2452.939,"endTime":2455.5190000000002,"body":"to understand what God was"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2452.939,"endTime":2455.5190000000002,"body":"saying they could read Scripture"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2455.5190000000002,"endTime":2460.439,"body":"and like, oh, that made sense."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2455.5190000000002,"endTime":2460.439,"body":"They could see oh, maybe I'm"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2460.439,"endTime":2463.409,"body":"someone are you different from"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2460.439,"endTime":2463.409,"body":"who I've always thought I was?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2463.829,"endTime":2466.679,"body":"Because obviously, people who"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2463.829,"endTime":2466.679,"body":"can't understand relationships"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2467.429,"endTime":2473.069,"body":"are very annoying to everybody"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2467.429,"endTime":2473.069,"body":"else, right? Yeah. So when we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2473.069,"endTime":2476.759,"body":"begin to see these changes, we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2473.069,"endTime":2476.759,"body":"went to the more subtle change,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2476.759,"endTime":2479.909,"body":"does it turn out that when"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2476.759,"endTime":2479.909,"body":"Christians are trying to connect"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2479.909,"endTime":2484.409,"body":"with God, if they do so just on"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2479.909,"endTime":2484.409,"body":"the basis of ideas, and not, if"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2484.889,"endTime":2488.459,"body":"not, on the basis of their,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2484.889,"endTime":2488.459,"body":"their brain actually being"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2488.459,"endTime":2491.969,"body":"relational at the moment, that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2488.459,"endTime":2491.969,"body":"is I'm, I'm learning to I'm"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2491.969,"endTime":2495.329,"body":"talking, I'm reading about"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2491.969,"endTime":2495.329,"body":"someone who loves me and cares"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2495.329,"endTime":2498.509,"body":"about me and sees me and knows"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2495.329,"endTime":2498.509,"body":"me, and is going to help me know"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2498.509,"endTime":2504.2690000000002,"body":"myself better. All of a sudden,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2498.509,"endTime":2504.2690000000002,"body":"we see no changes happening for"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2504.2690000000002,"endTime":2507.629,"body":"the people who have an"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2504.2690000000002,"endTime":2507.629,"body":"attachment to God. And how did"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2507.629,"endTime":2511.199,"body":"they learn that? Well, some of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2507.629,"endTime":2511.199,"body":"them learned it directly from"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2511.199,"endTime":2514.319,"body":"God, when they asked him, God"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2511.199,"endTime":2514.319,"body":"formed a relationship with them."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2515.099,"endTime":2520.109,"body":"And from that, they learned how"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2515.099,"endTime":2520.109,"body":"to understand people. And then"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2520.109,"endTime":2523.589,"body":"there's people who formed an"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2520.109,"endTime":2523.589,"body":"attachment with God's people."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2523.589,"endTime":2526.079,"body":"And from that they learned out"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2523.589,"endTime":2526.079,"body":"how to understand God. And it"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2526.079,"endTime":2529.799,"body":"seems like God worked it both"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2526.079,"endTime":2529.799,"body":"ways. Wow. But in both cases,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2529.799,"endTime":2534.569,"body":"the brain had to learn and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2529.799,"endTime":2534.569,"body":"practice with other people. So"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2535.379,"endTime":2538.829,"body":"as St. John says, you know, how"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2535.379,"endTime":2538.829,"body":"can you say that you're attached"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2538.829,"endTime":2542.849,"body":"to God, who you haven't seen if"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2538.829,"endTime":2542.849,"body":"you're not attached to his"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2542.849,"endTime":2546.929,"body":"children who you have seen. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2542.849,"endTime":2546.929,"body":"so developing these"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2546.929,"endTime":2550.499,"body":"relationships with others,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2546.929,"endTime":2550.499,"body":"strengthened what the brain was"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2550.499,"endTime":2556.529,"body":"learning. And then it could"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2550.499,"endTime":2556.529,"body":"better stay connected with God,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2556.739,"endTime":2559.679,"body":"as things got harder and harder."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2556.739,"endTime":2559.679,"body":"And by harder and harder, we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2559.679,"endTime":2564.959,"body":"mean, more and more upsetting."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2559.679,"endTime":2564.959,"body":"So, watching that, I think, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2564.959,"endTime":2567.419,"body":"know, maybe God meant all of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2564.959,"endTime":2567.419,"body":"this to work together."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2568.77,"endTime":2571.53,"body":"So, said that,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2568.77,"endTime":2571.53,"body":"you know, our brains actually"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2571.53,"endTime":2575.79,"body":"have to practice these this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2571.53,"endTime":2575.79,"body":"relationship, these four these"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2575.79,"endTime":2579.15,"body":"relational circuits to work"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2575.79,"endTime":2579.15,"body":"well, so that we could form a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2579.15,"endTime":2582.18,"body":"healthy attachment to God and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2579.15,"endTime":2582.18,"body":"start to walk through these"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2582.18,"endTime":2585.51,"body":"things. How do we then enter"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2582.18,"endTime":2585.51,"body":"into that practice?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2588.66,"endTime":2592.02,"body":"Well, certainly, it"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2588.66,"endTime":2592.02,"body":"would help greatly if we were"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2592.02,"endTime":2595.26,"body":"part of a people who said we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2592.02,"endTime":2595.26,"body":"practice this with each other."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2595.8,"endTime":2599.07,"body":"And that is what I find"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2595.8,"endTime":2599.07,"body":"generally missing in the West."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2600.18,"endTime":2602.79,"body":"You know, we are people who"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2600.18,"endTime":2602.79,"body":"believe the right things, not"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2602.79,"endTime":2606.36,"body":"necessarily people who practice"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2602.79,"endTime":2606.36,"body":"it with each other, particularly"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2606.36,"endTime":2611.13,"body":"when we're not good at it. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2606.36,"endTime":2611.13,"body":"So that's what practice is, if"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2611.13,"endTime":2615.84,"body":"you hadn't, you know, teach a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2611.13,"endTime":2615.84,"body":"soccer team to play, you start"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2615.84,"endTime":2619.02,"body":"with little kids who are"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2615.84,"endTime":2619.02,"body":"terrible at it, and you help"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2619.02,"endTime":2622.26,"body":"them get better. And so this"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2619.02,"endTime":2622.26,"body":"idea that we would practice with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2622.26,"endTime":2627.75,"body":"each other is just not part of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2622.26,"endTime":2627.75,"body":"our Christian culture. You know,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2627.84,"endTime":2631.59,"body":"so that I think is a fundamental"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2627.84,"endTime":2631.59,"body":"change, we have to become a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2631.59,"endTime":2634.35,"body":"people that say, you know, we're"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2631.59,"endTime":2634.35,"body":"going to practice how to stay"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2634.35,"endTime":2638.25,"body":"relational with each other."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2634.35,"endTime":2638.25,"body":"Which means we're going to get"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2638.25,"endTime":2640.68,"body":"better and better at this when"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2638.25,"endTime":2640.68,"body":"the more and more upsetting"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2640.68,"endTime":2645.75,"body":"things in our lives come up. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2640.68,"endTime":2645.75,"body":"what I hear from the larger"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2645.75,"endTime":2649.8,"body":"churches that run small groups"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2645.75,"endTime":2649.8,"body":"is when these upsetting things"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2649.8,"endTime":2652.65,"body":"start coming up, that's when"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2649.8,"endTime":2652.65,"body":"those small groups start"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2652.65,"endTime":2657.09,"body":"breaking apart. So you know, two"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2652.65,"endTime":2657.09,"body":"years, we'll all act nice with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2657.09,"endTime":2660.12,"body":"each other. But when we start"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2657.09,"endTime":2660.12,"body":"getting into trouble, all of a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2660.12,"endTime":2663.78,"body":"sudden, we have no idea what to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2660.12,"endTime":2663.78,"body":"do with this now. It's so"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2663.78,"endTime":2667.7400000000002,"body":"missing from our mindset. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2663.78,"endTime":2667.7400000000002,"body":"that we don't even look at that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2667.7400000000002,"endTime":2672.9,"body":"as an as an opportunity. So,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2667.7400000000002,"endTime":2672.9,"body":"again, the brain doesn't usually"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2672.9,"endTime":2676.44,"body":"want to start there. Yep. So"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2672.9,"endTime":2676.44,"body":"once it start by building joy"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2676.44,"endTime":2679.59,"body":"and peace, and so how do we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2676.44,"endTime":2679.59,"body":"build joy to be with each other"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2679.98,"endTime":2684.75,"body":"is a fundamental thing. And that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2679.98,"endTime":2684.75,"body":"grows around gratitude. So we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2684.75,"endTime":2690.09,"body":"want to be grateful, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2684.75,"endTime":2690.09,"body":"how am I going to be grateful to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2690.39,"endTime":2694.68,"body":"Joshua Johnson, you know, is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2690.39,"endTime":2694.68,"body":"going to be practical, or my"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2694.68,"endTime":2698.67,"body":"brain is not going to look at"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2694.68,"endTime":2698.67,"body":"with joy. When When I see your"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2698.67,"endTime":2702.75,"body":"name, you know, we need to do"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2698.67,"endTime":2702.75,"body":"that with all the people that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2702.75,"endTime":2704.01,"body":"God's put in our lives."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2705.27,"endTime":2709.17,"body":"Yeah. And so if"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2705.27,"endTime":2709.17,"body":"we set something up, where we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2709.17,"endTime":2714.2400000000002,"body":"moving our communities, through"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2709.17,"endTime":2714.2400000000002,"body":"this baby relationship of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2714.2400000000002,"endTime":2717.96,"body":"relational attachment, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2714.2400000000002,"endTime":2717.96,"body":"practice all the way through"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2717.96,"endTime":2723.51,"body":"into maturity, what are some"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2717.96,"endTime":2723.51,"body":"steps, as you said, once we hit"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2723.51,"endTime":2726.84,"body":"the hard things we usually break"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2723.51,"endTime":2726.84,"body":"apart. So what are some things"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2726.84,"endTime":2731.94,"body":"to actually help us to navigate"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2726.84,"endTime":2731.94,"body":"that and go through it to the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2731.94,"endTime":2734.16,"body":"other side, so we stay together?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2736.56,"endTime":2739.59,"body":"Well, for people who"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2736.56,"endTime":2739.59,"body":"like to have a more systematic"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2739.59,"endTime":2745.41,"body":"look at that, in the book"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2739.59,"endTime":2745.41,"body":"renovated. I have an appendix in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2745.41,"endTime":2750.03,"body":"there of the 12 characteristics"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2745.41,"endTime":2750.03,"body":"of a strong attachment, and how"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2750.03,"endTime":2753.87,"body":"would you build them if you took"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2750.03,"endTime":2753.87,"body":"a month every year to build one"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2753.87,"endTime":2760.26,"body":"of the 12 And so the first thing"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2753.87,"endTime":2760.26,"body":"is attachments built around the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2760.26,"endTime":2766.32,"body":"people who feed you? So the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2760.26,"endTime":2766.32,"body":"first sin was letting Satan feed"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2766.32,"endTime":2776.34,"body":"us. And we have taken the feasts"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2766.32,"endTime":2776.34,"body":"out of pretty much out of the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2776.34,"endTime":2782.34,"body":"Christian life. We have the, the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2776.34,"endTime":2782.34,"body":"meal on the table of the Lord."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2783.66,"endTime":2786.69,"body":"And so we make some attachment"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2783.66,"endTime":2786.69,"body":"to the Lord. But the churches"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2786.69,"endTime":2791.31,"body":"that do it better in terms of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2786.69,"endTime":2791.31,"body":"forming relationships with each"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2791.31,"endTime":2795.06,"body":"other, at least have potlucks or"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2791.31,"endTime":2795.06,"body":"something. And but how do we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2795.06,"endTime":2798.3,"body":"actually become people who are"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2795.06,"endTime":2798.3,"body":"fed by God and by each other?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2798.3,"endTime":2804.69,"body":"And then what Jesus says is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2798.3,"endTime":2804.69,"body":"that, you know, this natural"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2804.69,"endTime":2808.35,"body":"food is just the start of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2804.69,"endTime":2808.35,"body":"feeding each other. Right? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2808.86,"endTime":2811.86,"body":"So there's, you know, that's the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2808.86,"endTime":2811.86,"body":"first thing if we were to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2811.86,"endTime":2817.41,"body":"practice that, the second thing"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2811.86,"endTime":2817.41,"body":"is, attachments are unique to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2817.41,"endTime":2822.12,"body":"every individual. So this idea"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2817.41,"endTime":2822.12,"body":"that we have replaceable"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2822.12,"endTime":2826.26,"body":"pastors, replaceable, small"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2822.12,"endTime":2826.26,"body":"group leaders, replaceable"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2826.26,"endTime":2829.05,"body":"fellowships, replaceable things,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2826.26,"endTime":2829.05,"body":"we're not building anything"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2829.05,"endTime":2833.01,"body":"permanent, is not going to build"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2829.05,"endTime":2833.01,"body":"attachments. So what is there"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2833.01,"endTime":2836.28,"body":"about you that I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2833.01,"endTime":2836.28,"body":"attach to, that becomes"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2836.28,"endTime":2841.38,"body":"permanent? And to do that, we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2836.28,"endTime":2841.38,"body":"would look at even our trip"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2841.41,"endTime":2844.86,"body":"traditions, you know, like, make"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2841.41,"endTime":2844.86,"body":"a spiritual family tree, what"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2844.86,"endTime":2848.16,"body":"are all of the things that you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2844.86,"endTime":2848.16,"body":"have, that have formed who you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2848.16,"endTime":2853.29,"body":"are as a church as a group, as a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2848.16,"endTime":2853.29,"body":"family? And how did they build"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2853.29,"endTime":2855.75,"body":"in what good things did they"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2853.29,"endTime":2855.75,"body":"build in you that you've been"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2855.75,"endTime":2860.19,"body":"appreciating? And all this time?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2855.75,"endTime":2860.19,"body":"And so going through the the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2860.19,"endTime":2864.78,"body":"ways in which attachments are"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2860.19,"endTime":2864.78,"body":"built? You know, how are we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2864.78,"endTime":2868.89,"body":"going to? We're looking for"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2864.78,"endTime":2868.89,"body":"people who are glad to be with"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2868.89,"endTime":2872.94,"body":"us. Yeah. So how are we going to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2868.89,"endTime":2872.94,"body":"do that, since almost every"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2872.94,"endTime":2877.17,"body":"culture has prohibitions about"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2872.94,"endTime":2877.17,"body":"who you can smile at and when"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2877.17,"endTime":2884.04,"body":"and how and because if you just"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2877.17,"endTime":2884.04,"body":"go about smiling at anybody, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2884.04,"endTime":2888.54,"body":"attract predators, something"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2884.04,"endTime":2888.54,"body":"fierce. And so again, working"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2888.54,"endTime":2894.78,"body":"through these characteristics of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2888.54,"endTime":2894.78,"body":"attachment, the one that I'm"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2894.78,"endTime":2899.94,"body":"doing right now, with my small"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2894.78,"endTime":2899.94,"body":"group here, is a good attachment"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2899.94,"endTime":2905.31,"body":"stretch you slightly to grow,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2899.94,"endTime":2905.31,"body":"which means you don't allow"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2905.34,"endTime":2911.16,"body":"people to develop and protect a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2905.34,"endTime":2911.16,"body":"comfort zone as sort of their"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2911.16,"endTime":2918.33,"body":"final criterion, because most of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2911.16,"endTime":2918.33,"body":"the churches that last, at least"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2918.33,"endTime":2921.78,"body":"a generation have created a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2918.33,"endTime":2921.78,"body":"comfort zone. And then if you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2921.78,"endTime":2924.57,"body":"don't fit that comfort zone,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2921.78,"endTime":2924.57,"body":"you're you're out of here. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2924.57,"endTime":2929.79,"body":"so I'm not sure that the people"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2924.57,"endTime":2929.79,"body":"particularly enjoy it, my small"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2929.79,"endTime":2933.54,"body":"group, but I'm frequently"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2929.79,"endTime":2933.54,"body":"stretching them out of their"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2933.54,"endTime":2936.48,"body":"comfort zone. And I'm saying"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2933.54,"endTime":2936.48,"body":"we're a kind of people that do"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2936.48,"endTime":2939.93,"body":"that and take those 12"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2936.48,"endTime":2939.93,"body":"characteristics. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2939.93,"endTime":2944.46,"body":"recommend a book, I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2939.93,"endTime":2944.46,"body":"good one. It isn't good way,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2944.85,"endTime":2947.58,"body":"based on the brain science, and"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2944.85,"endTime":2947.58,"body":"then look for those in the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2947.58,"endTime":2949.14,"body":"Bible. I think they're all"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2947.58,"endTime":2949.14,"body":"there, too."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2949.469,"endTime":2951.839,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2949.469,"endTime":2951.839,"body":"agree. I think that's good. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2951.839,"endTime":2953.699,"body":"love that you're actually"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2951.839,"endTime":2953.699,"body":"pushing people out of your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2953.729,"endTime":2957.509,"body":"comfort zone to move forward a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2953.729,"endTime":2957.509,"body":"little bit. And I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2957.509,"endTime":2962.429,"body":"necessary next step. Anything"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2957.509,"endTime":2962.429,"body":"else? Before I have a couple"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2962.429,"endTime":2965.249,"body":"really quick questions to the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2962.429,"endTime":2965.249,"body":"end. But anything else in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2965.249,"endTime":2970.499,"body":"escaping enemy mode that we you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2965.249,"endTime":2970.499,"body":"want the audience to, to know"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2970.499,"endTime":2972.329,"body":"and understand to move forward?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2973.949,"endTime":2980.789,"body":"Yeah, it's sort of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2973.949,"endTime":2980.789,"body":"like a huge vision. Unrealistic"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2980.789,"endTime":2985.229,"body":"in one sense. But Christians are"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2980.789,"endTime":2985.229,"body":"currently one out of five people"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2985.229,"endTime":2992.639,"body":"on the planet. So if we were"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2985.229,"endTime":2992.639,"body":"actually to learn to love our"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2992.639,"endTime":2996.299,"body":"enemies, that would only mean"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2992.639,"endTime":2996.299,"body":"about four enemies for each of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2996.299,"endTime":3001.189,"body":"us. And we could pretty much"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":2996.299,"endTime":3001.189,"body":"cover the planet. And at the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3001.189,"endTime":3006.0190000000002,"body":"moment, people don't think of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3001.189,"endTime":3006.0190000000002,"body":"doing it because they think it's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3006.0190000000002,"endTime":3009.829,"body":"impossible. Yeah, it's like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3006.0190000000002,"endTime":3009.829,"body":"that's a that's an ideal. It'll"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3009.829,"endTime":3013.699,"body":"never happen. But if you can"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3009.829,"endTime":3013.699,"body":"actually teach your brain to do"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3013.699,"endTime":3019.099,"body":"that, that would be very, very"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3013.699,"endTime":3019.099,"body":"good. And going back to the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3019.099,"endTime":3022.609,"body":"question you asked a long time"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3019.099,"endTime":3022.609,"body":"ago and we never answered what"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3022.609,"endTime":3025.999,"body":"do you do when people are in"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3022.609,"endTime":3025.999,"body":"enemy mode? Yeah, well, the best"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3025.999,"endTime":3028.339,"body":"thing to do since most of them"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3025.999,"endTime":3028.339,"body":"are going to be part of your"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3028.339,"endTime":3035.059,"body":"everyday life anyway, is to make"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3028.339,"endTime":3035.059,"body":"it a topic we can talk about. So"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3035.209,"endTime":3039.229,"body":"if I give people permission to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3035.209,"endTime":3039.229,"body":"tell me why I mean, I think you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3039.229,"endTime":3043.579,"body":"might be an enemy mode. Now if"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3039.229,"endTime":3043.579,"body":"you do that, just to make me"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3043.579,"endTime":3049.009,"body":"lose like your anatomy mode now."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3043.579,"endTime":3049.009,"body":"That's going to be both of us"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3049.009,"endTime":3052.219,"body":"are an enemy mode. But if I do"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3049.009,"endTime":3052.219,"body":"that, like you asked me to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3052.219,"endTime":3055.159,"body":"remind you when you might be an"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3052.219,"endTime":3055.159,"body":"enemy mode, and I think that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3055.159,"endTime":3061.339,"body":"might be going on. So can we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3055.159,"endTime":3061.339,"body":"just get Godspeed? resonance"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3061.339,"endTime":3068.299,"body":"before we go forward, that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3061.339,"endTime":3068.299,"body":"simple one step would start us"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3068.299,"endTime":3071.989,"body":"building something that would be"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3068.299,"endTime":3071.989,"body":"contagious. The people around us"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3071.989,"endTime":3075.799,"body":"would go like, how did you get"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3071.989,"endTime":3075.799,"body":"out of that fight? And go, oh,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3075.799,"endTime":3079.639,"body":"let me teach you how to do it."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3075.799,"endTime":3079.639,"body":"It's, you know, it, these things"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3079.639,"endTime":3084.049,"body":"are not as insurmountable as the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3079.639,"endTime":3084.049,"body":"first appear."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3084.44,"endTime":3088.01,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3084.44,"endTime":3088.01,"body":"totally agree. We've had, we've"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3088.01,"endTime":3090.95,"body":"had things and relationships"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3088.01,"endTime":3090.95,"body":"fall apart, things fall apart,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3090.95,"endTime":3094.91,"body":"because we didn't know how to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3090.95,"endTime":3094.91,"body":"get out of enemy mode. And so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3094.94,"endTime":3098.45,"body":"even that step of being able to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3094.94,"endTime":3098.45,"body":"talk about enemy mouth is so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3098.45,"endTime":3099.26,"body":"very helpful."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3099.889,"endTime":3103.279,"body":"Yeah, the brain is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3099.889,"endTime":3103.279,"body":"response, almost the same to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3103.279,"endTime":3107.629,"body":"knowing a solution as it does to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3103.279,"endTime":3107.629,"body":"knowing there is a solution. So"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3108.109,"endTime":3111.589,"body":"if your brain knows this can be"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3108.109,"endTime":3111.589,"body":"solved. It sits about trying to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3111.589,"endTime":3115.009,"body":"learn and figure it out. And if"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3111.589,"endTime":3115.009,"body":"we had all of our our brains"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3115.009,"endTime":3116.599,"body":"doing that, we'd be in better"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3115.009,"endTime":3116.599,"body":"shape."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3117.05,"endTime":3121.28,"body":"Yes. So so these"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3117.05,"endTime":3121.28,"body":"two, two questions, one, if you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3121.28,"endTime":3123.71,"body":"could go back to your 21 year"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3121.28,"endTime":3123.71,"body":"old self, what advice would you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3123.71,"endTime":3124.1,"body":"give?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3125.449,"endTime":3134.599,"body":"Hmm. Well, the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3125.449,"endTime":3134.599,"body":"things that I give myself as"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3134.599,"endTime":3141.049,"body":"advice is, don't be such a solo"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3134.599,"endTime":3141.049,"body":"artist, you know, I was still"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3141.109,"endTime":3144.0190000000002,"body":"really into the individualism"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3141.109,"endTime":3144.0190000000002,"body":"like, I'm going to have to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3144.0190000000002,"endTime":3149.569,"body":"figure out how to do this all on"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3144.0190000000002,"endTime":3149.569,"body":"my own. And I was given that"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3149.569,"endTime":3153.199,"body":"advice at that, that age, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3149.569,"endTime":3153.199,"body":"know, do his part of the church."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3153.439,"endTime":3157.909,"body":"One of my professors at Bible"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3153.439,"endTime":3157.909,"body":"school said, Jim, the last thing"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3157.909,"endTime":3161.119,"body":"the world needs is another"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3157.909,"endTime":3161.119,"body":"church. So why don't you come to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3161.119,"endTime":3165.349,"body":"our church and teach us what you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3161.119,"endTime":3165.349,"body":"think Christians should be like?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3165.859,"endTime":3171.469,"body":"And we'll try and do it. And I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3165.859,"endTime":3171.469,"body":"think I should have paid more"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3171.469,"endTime":3174.379,"body":"attention to that. Now, I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3171.469,"endTime":3174.379,"body":"actually tried it. And it was a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3174.379,"endTime":3178.069,"body":"wonderful experience. But I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3174.379,"endTime":3178.069,"body":"didn't seem nearly as important"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3178.069,"endTime":3178.999,"body":"as it now does."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3180.44,"endTime":3182.45,"body":"Scott, anything"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3180.44,"endTime":3182.45,"body":"you've been reading or watching"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3182.45,"endTime":3183.53,"body":"lately, you could recommend?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3186.5,"endTime":3190.1,"body":"Well, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3186.5,"endTime":3190.1,"body":"watching anything. That's good."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3190.1,"endTime":3193.76,"body":"Don't, don't be part of it is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3190.1,"endTime":3193.76,"body":"because I live up here in Rocky"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3193.76,"endTime":3196.22,"body":"Mountains, where you can't"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3193.76,"endTime":3196.22,"body":"really get a signal. And we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3196.22,"endTime":3200.27,"body":"don't even have a cable up here."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3196.22,"endTime":3200.27,"body":"So you know, that sounds a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3200.3,"endTime":3207.11,"body":"little more dedicated than I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3200.3,"endTime":3207.11,"body":"might actually be. Yeah, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3207.11,"endTime":3211.46,"body":"actually reading the books by Ed"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3207.11,"endTime":3211.46,"body":"quarry right now. He's got"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3211.85,"endTime":3217.16,"body":"becoming a face of grace. Beyond"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3211.85,"endTime":3217.16,"body":"becoming and the weight of"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3217.16,"endTime":3221.33,"body":"leadership three, that's a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3217.16,"endTime":3221.33,"body":"trilogy he put together. And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3221.33,"endTime":3228.29,"body":"it's how do we see in each"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3221.33,"endTime":3228.29,"body":"other? And let my face reflect"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3228.29,"endTime":3232.13,"body":"the the face of Jesus to you,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3228.29,"endTime":3232.13,"body":"when we're interacting in real"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3232.13,"endTime":3236.36,"body":"church time, and real family"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3232.13,"endTime":3236.36,"body":"time and stuff like that? And"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3236.36,"endTime":3239.66,"body":"then the weight of leadership is"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3236.36,"endTime":3239.66,"body":"how do you avoid becoming a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3239.66,"endTime":3243.68,"body":"people pleasing codependent"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3239.66,"endTime":3243.68,"body":"person who's now just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3244.04,"endTime":3247.4900000000002,"body":"trying to make everybody happy"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3244.04,"endTime":3247.4900000000002,"body":"instead of represent Jesus. So"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3247.94,"endTime":3250.28,"body":"those books I'm finding quite"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3247.94,"endTime":3250.28,"body":"inspiring right now."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3251.21,"endTime":3254.33,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3251.21,"endTime":3254.33,"body":"How can people connect with your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3254.33,"endTime":3258.11,"body":"book, what you're doing life"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3254.33,"endTime":3258.11,"body":"model works, whatever you want"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3258.11,"endTime":3259.79,"body":"to connect people to?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3260.239,"endTime":3263.929,"body":"Yeah, well give you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3260.239,"endTime":3263.929,"body":"two websites. One is escaping"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3263.929,"endTime":3269.749,"body":"enemy mode.com will take you to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3263.929,"endTime":3269.749,"body":"a study guide. I think it's like"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3269.749,"endTime":3276.169,"body":"over 40 pages. For that, if you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3269.749,"endTime":3276.169,"body":"want to work through the, the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3276.7690000000002,"endTime":3280.339,"body":"material as part of your small"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3276.7690000000002,"endTime":3280.339,"body":"group, something like that. It's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3280.399,"endTime":3283.789,"body":"It's not designed specifically"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3280.399,"endTime":3283.789,"body":"for Christian small groups, we"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3283.789,"endTime":3288.499,"body":"might eventually lead, add one"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3283.789,"endTime":3288.499,"body":"of those, but we're actually"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3288.499,"endTime":3292.159,"body":"trying to have a Christian"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3288.499,"endTime":3292.159,"body":"impact on the world here. So"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3292.189,"endTime":3297.919,"body":"this is kind of fun. And the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3292.189,"endTime":3297.919,"body":"other is life model works.org,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3298.939,"endTime":3303.979,"body":"or RG. And that's where you get"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3298.939,"endTime":3303.979,"body":"more broad information on the"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3303.979,"endTime":3308.029,"body":"stuff that we're up to the fun"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3303.979,"endTime":3308.029,"body":"to be part of a team that's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3308.029,"endTime":3312.229,"body":"trying to make this stuff work."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3308.029,"endTime":3312.229,"body":"And it doesn't always work on"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3312.229,"endTime":3315.889,"body":"the first try. So it's good to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3312.229,"endTime":3315.889,"body":"have some other people to help"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3315.889,"endTime":3318.889,"body":"you figure out why they did as"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3315.889,"endTime":3318.889,"body":"well as it sounded."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3319.82,"endTime":3322.79,"body":"Well, we've"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3319.82,"endTime":3322.79,"body":"definitely been impacted by life"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3322.79,"endTime":3326.03,"body":"model works and the things that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3322.79,"endTime":3326.03,"body":"you have written and done,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3326.03,"endTime":3329.81,"body":"especially here at all nations"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3326.03,"endTime":3329.81,"body":"where my wife and I co leads all"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3329.81,"endTime":3334.01,"body":"nations Kansas City, but a lot"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3329.81,"endTime":3334.01,"body":"of people have found your work"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3334.01,"endTime":3337.64,"body":"very, very, very valuable. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3334.01,"endTime":3337.64,"body":"it's actually helped us move"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3337.64,"endTime":3342.62,"body":"forward and relationships, move"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3337.64,"endTime":3342.62,"body":"forward with joy, and find a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3342.62,"endTime":3346.22,"body":"place where we could actually"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3342.62,"endTime":3346.22,"body":"attach to God and attached to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3346.22,"endTime":3350.03,"body":"one another. So I want to thank"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3346.22,"endTime":3350.03,"body":"you for that. And thank you for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3350.03,"endTime":3354.14,"body":"your team, as they're working"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3350.03,"endTime":3354.14,"body":"hard to to really put this out"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3354.14,"endTime":3359.42,"body":"there so that we can engage it,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3354.14,"endTime":3359.42,"body":"start to live into it, and walk"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3359.45,"endTime":3363.02,"body":"with one another over the long"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3359.45,"endTime":3363.02,"body":"haul, and have a good journey."},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3363.65,"endTime":3366.92,"body":"So I appreciate"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3363.65,"endTime":3366.92,"body":"that. You know, in many ways, I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3366.92,"endTime":3370.94,"body":"think of myself sort of like a"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3366.92,"endTime":3370.94,"body":"dietician that tells you what"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3371.18,"endTime":3377.33,"body":"should be the nutritional value"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3371.18,"endTime":3377.33,"body":"in your food. But, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3377.33,"endTime":3380.39,"body":"probably wouldn't eat it or"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3377.33,"endTime":3380.39,"body":"serve other, get other people to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3380.39,"endTime":3384.08,"body":"eat it until you actually spice"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3380.39,"endTime":3384.08,"body":"it up and make it you know,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3384.08,"endTime":3388.64,"body":"culturally relevant. And while"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3384.08,"endTime":3388.64,"body":"we might give you the basics,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3388.67,"endTime":3391.94,"body":"you know, like, here's, here's"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3388.67,"endTime":3391.94,"body":"what needs to be in your diet. I"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3391.94,"endTime":3394.46,"body":"really appreciate people like"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3391.94,"endTime":3394.46,"body":"you that are saying, Okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3394.46,"endTime":3397.55,"body":"how will we make this edible?"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3394.46,"endTime":3397.55,"body":"You know, how will we serve this"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3397.55,"endTime":3402.02,"body":"up so people come and actually"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3397.55,"endTime":3402.02,"body":"liked the meal, and so glad to"},{"speaker":"Jim Wilder","startTime":3402.02,"endTime":3402.95,"body":"have you on the team."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3403.19,"endTime":3406.43,"body":"Yeah. Thank you,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3403.19,"endTime":3406.43,"body":"Jim. I was a pleasure talking to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3406.43,"endTime":3409.79,"body":"you. And I just said, Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3406.43,"endTime":3409.79,"body":"pray that we could all escape"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3409.79,"endTime":3412.52,"body":"enemy mode. We could read"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3409.79,"endTime":3412.52,"body":"friends, people and we can learn"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3412.52,"endTime":3414.38,"body":"how to love our enemies."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3415.73,"endTime":3417.86,"body":"It'd be good for us and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3415.73,"endTime":3417.86,"body":"the world needs thanks."}]}