{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":13.59,"endTime":15.39,"body":"Hello and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":13.59,"endTime":15.39,"body":"welcome to the shifting culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":15.39,"endTime":18.03,"body":"podcast in which we have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":15.39,"endTime":18.03,"body":"conversations about the culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":18.03,"endTime":21.57,"body":"we create, and the impact we can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":18.03,"endTime":21.57,"body":"make. We longed to see the body"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":21.57,"endTime":26.64,"body":"of Christ look like Jesus. I'm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":21.57,"endTime":26.64,"body":"your host, Joshua Johnson. Go to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":26.64,"endTime":30.66,"body":"shifting culture podcast.com to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":26.64,"endTime":30.66,"body":"interact and donate. And don't"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":30.66,"endTime":33.15,"body":"forget to hit the Follow button"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":30.66,"endTime":33.15,"body":"on your favorite podcast app to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":33.15,"endTime":37.8,"body":"be notified when new episodes"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":33.15,"endTime":37.8,"body":"come out each week, and go leave"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":37.83,"endTime":42.33,"body":"a rating and review. It's easy."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":37.83,"endTime":42.33,"body":"It only takes a second, and it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":42.33,"endTime":46.02,"body":"helps us find new listeners to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":42.33,"endTime":46.02,"body":"the show. Just go to the Show"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":46.02,"endTime":49.08,"body":"page on the app you're using"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":46.02,"endTime":49.08,"body":"right now and hit five stars."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":49.41,"endTime":53.52,"body":"Thank you so much. Previous"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":49.41,"endTime":53.52,"body":"guests on the show have included"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":53.58,"endTime":58.32,"body":"JG Thomas, AJ Swoboda and Pam"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":53.58,"endTime":58.32,"body":"Arland. You could go back listen"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":58.32,"endTime":62.43,"body":"to those episodes and more. But"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":58.32,"endTime":62.43,"body":"today's guest is Josh White."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":62.82,"endTime":66.36,"body":"Josh White is a speaker,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":62.82,"endTime":66.36,"body":"recording artist and writer and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":66.36,"endTime":70.14,"body":"founding pastor of door of hope,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":66.36,"endTime":70.14,"body":"a family of churches in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":70.14,"endTime":74.28,"body":"urban core of Portland, Oregon."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":70.14,"endTime":74.28,"body":"Josh lives with his wife Darcy"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":74.28,"endTime":78.18,"body":"son Henry daughter, Haiti."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":74.28,"endTime":78.18,"body":"Portland is the city where he"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":78.18,"endTime":81.9,"body":"and his wife Darcy met 23 years"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":78.18,"endTime":81.9,"body":"ago, while Josh was playing the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":81.9,"endTime":87.33,"body":"show with his then Seattle glam"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":81.9,"endTime":87.33,"body":"rock band, man, Ray. Little do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":87.33,"endTime":90.3,"body":"they know that their lives"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":87.33,"endTime":90.3,"body":"within a few years would be"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":90.3,"endTime":94.23,"body":"turned upside down and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":90.3,"endTime":94.23,"body":"revolutionized by the gospel of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":94.23,"endTime":97.86,"body":"Jesus. He just released his"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":94.23,"endTime":97.86,"body":"first book and stumbling toward"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":97.86,"endTime":102.36,"body":"eternity for penguin imprint,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":97.86,"endTime":102.36,"body":"Multnomah press, Josh and I have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":102.36,"endTime":107.01,"body":"a great conversation around the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":102.36,"endTime":107.01,"body":"foolishness of the cross around"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":107.01,"endTime":109.8,"body":"our need to be confronted with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":107.01,"endTime":109.8,"body":"the end of ourselves so that we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":109.8,"endTime":112.8,"body":"can be dependent on Christ. We"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":109.8,"endTime":112.8,"body":"talk about how confession can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":112.8,"endTime":116.43,"body":"drive our communities. Being a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":112.8,"endTime":116.43,"body":"witness to Jesus in the world"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":116.43,"endTime":119.61,"body":"and radical grace and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":116.43,"endTime":119.61,"body":"vulnerability. It's a really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":119.61,"endTime":123.81,"body":"good episode. Enjoy my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":119.61,"endTime":123.81,"body":"conversation with Josh White."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":124.44,"endTime":127.29,"body":"Josh, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":124.44,"endTime":127.29,"body":"I'm really excited to have you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":127.29,"endTime":129.18,"body":"on thank you so much for joining"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":127.29,"endTime":129.18,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":130.08,"endTime":131.25,"body":"Yeah, thanks for"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":130.08,"endTime":131.25,"body":"having me."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":131.58,"endTime":134.19,"body":"Yeah, I'd love"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":131.58,"endTime":134.19,"body":"to I loved your book, some weed"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":134.19,"endTime":138.69,"body":"toward eternity. It was, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":134.19,"endTime":138.69,"body":"think, you know, we're, we're at"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":138.69,"endTime":143.73,"body":"a similar age, I grew up in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":138.69,"endTime":143.73,"body":"northwest. So I could get, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":143.73,"endTime":147.81,"body":"know, references of like the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":143.73,"endTime":147.81,"body":"crocodile and, and other things"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":147.81,"endTime":153.45,"body":"that made it a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":147.81,"endTime":153.45,"body":"enjoyable for me. Seeing Michael"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":153.45,"endTime":159.48,"body":"Louis Smith that Jesus Northwest"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":153.45,"endTime":159.48,"body":"snakes that that came up and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":159.48,"endTime":163.5,"body":"some of your reflections, I was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":159.48,"endTime":163.5,"body":"like, Yeah, I was there, too. So"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":163.56,"endTime":167.46,"body":"it was, it was really enjoyable."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":163.56,"endTime":167.46,"body":"But you know, what I love is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":167.46,"endTime":173.55,"body":"that just the radical grace,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":167.46,"endTime":173.55,"body":"forgiveness, vulnerability of,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":173.61,"endTime":179.34,"body":"of the cross of this act, that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":173.61,"endTime":179.34,"body":"Jesus did as the savior of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":179.34,"endTime":184.2,"body":"world as he's, he's there,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":179.34,"endTime":184.2,"body":"giving his life up. And that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":184.2,"endTime":189.54,"body":"actually changes the way that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":184.2,"endTime":189.54,"body":"one we relate to God, but to the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":189.54,"endTime":193.92,"body":"way that we relate to each"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":189.54,"endTime":193.92,"body":"other? How did how is the cross"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":194.31,"endTime":198.3,"body":"transformed zero in life and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":194.31,"endTime":198.3,"body":"your story in the way that you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":198.93,"endTime":200.22,"body":"interact in the world?"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":201.75,"endTime":205.53,"body":"Yeah, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":201.75,"endTime":205.53,"body":"think, when I can, I can get"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":205.53,"endTime":211.11,"body":"paid later in life. So like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":205.53,"endTime":211.11,"body":"1999 I was living in Seattle,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":211.14,"endTime":213.96,"body":"I'd moved to Seattle, right, you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":211.14,"endTime":213.96,"body":"know, right, when I got out of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":213.96,"endTime":217.35,"body":"high school and started pursuing"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":213.96,"endTime":217.35,"body":"music, and so, you know, the,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":217.77,"endTime":222.12,"body":"that that pursuit, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":217.77,"endTime":222.12,"body":"ending in the loss of a record"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":222.12,"endTime":226.35,"body":"deal, a few months after I got"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":222.12,"endTime":226.35,"body":"married, and then and then just"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":226.35,"endTime":231.84,"body":"the, the kind of anxiety and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":226.35,"endTime":231.84,"body":"existential dread that that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":231.93,"endTime":236.37,"body":"created that led me to open up a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":231.93,"endTime":236.37,"body":"Bible my mom gave me when I was"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":236.37,"endTime":242.28,"body":"21. But, you know, reading"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":236.37,"endTime":242.28,"body":"through the Gospels, I think the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":242.28,"endTime":245.61,"body":"first like conviction that came"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":242.28,"endTime":245.61,"body":"that struck me was it there is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":246.0,"endTime":249.36,"body":"that there was something about"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":246.0,"endTime":249.36,"body":"Jesus there's power in the name"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":249.36,"endTime":254.91,"body":"of Christ and and I shared a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":249.36,"endTime":254.91,"body":"story in the book about, you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":254.91,"endTime":258.03,"body":"know, asking a group of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":254.91,"endTime":258.03,"body":"musicians that the crocodile"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":258.06,"endTime":260.46,"body":"like what I was reading the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":258.06,"endTime":260.46,"body":"Bible, and I wasn't even a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":260.46,"endTime":262.68,"body":"Christian yet I asked them what"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":260.46,"endTime":262.68,"body":"they thought of Jesus and that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":262.68,"endTime":267.48,"body":"just the horror at the question."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":262.68,"endTime":267.48,"body":"Even I was like, I'm like, this"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":267.48,"endTime":273.72,"body":"response goes beyond what would"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":267.48,"endTime":273.72,"body":"be like acceptable or normal,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":273.72,"endTime":277.59,"body":"like, like, what I didn't share"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":273.72,"endTime":277.59,"body":"in the book is that just before"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":277.59,"endTime":280.44,"body":"I asked that question, a girl"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":277.59,"endTime":280.44,"body":"sitting next to me was telling"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":280.44,"endTime":284.37,"body":"us that shit, we knew she was a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":280.44,"endTime":284.37,"body":"part of this whole like, New Age"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":284.37,"endTime":287.55,"body":"kind of druid movement, and that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":284.37,"endTime":287.55,"body":"she was talking about summer"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":287.55,"endTime":291.03,"body":"solstice and how her and all her"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":287.55,"endTime":291.03,"body":"druid friends got naked up on"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":291.03,"endTime":294.6,"body":"Capitol Hill and like, we're"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":291.03,"endTime":294.6,"body":"like running around in the park"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":294.63,"endTime":299.22,"body":"by the cemetery where Bruce Lee"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":294.63,"endTime":299.22,"body":"is buried. You know, like"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":299.22,"endTime":303.51,"body":"celebrating The Summer Solstice"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":299.22,"endTime":303.51,"body":"nude. And nobody said anything."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":303.51,"endTime":306.12,"body":"They were like, That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":303.51,"endTime":306.12,"body":"And then I'm like, I'm reading a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":306.12,"endTime":308.52,"body":"Bible. What do you guys think"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":306.12,"endTime":308.52,"body":"about Jesus? And everyone's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":308.52,"endTime":311.73,"body":"like, obey Him. I mean, they"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":308.52,"endTime":311.73,"body":"they seriously act like they"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":311.73,"endTime":316.2,"body":"strip naked in front of them."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":311.73,"endTime":316.2,"body":"Yeah. And so I think that that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":316.59,"endTime":319.11,"body":"there is something compelling"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":316.59,"endTime":319.11,"body":"about the wink, what is it about"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":319.11,"endTime":324.12,"body":"Jesus that is so offensive, it's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":319.11,"endTime":324.12,"body":"more than just like cultural,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":324.57,"endTime":328.92,"body":"you know, biases or something"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":324.57,"endTime":328.92,"body":"that there was something deeper"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":328.92,"endTime":333.54,"body":"than that. And then when it came"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":328.92,"endTime":333.54,"body":"to faith, I realized that, that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":333.63,"endTime":339.63,"body":"I think it all comes down to the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":333.63,"endTime":339.63,"body":"centrality of the cross. And the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":339.66,"endTime":342.48,"body":"offensiveness and the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":339.66,"endTime":342.48,"body":"bullishness of the crosses, Paul"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":342.48,"endTime":348.12,"body":"put it, and I was really I was"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":342.48,"endTime":348.12,"body":"very, I was immediately enamored"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":348.12,"endTime":352.8,"body":"with the Pauline letters, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":348.12,"endTime":352.8,"body":"specifically as is his focus on"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":352.8,"endTime":355.92,"body":"the cross and the beginning of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":352.8,"endTime":355.92,"body":"First Corinthians, there's just"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":355.92,"endTime":361.14,"body":"like, this is strange, to think"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":355.92,"endTime":361.14,"body":"of, of the intellectual prowess,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":361.14,"endTime":368.22,"body":"that that man had, his ability"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":361.14,"endTime":368.22,"body":"to, to assimilate Greek thought,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":368.25,"endTime":374.49,"body":"in Jewish thought, and, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":368.25,"endTime":374.49,"body":"bring, bring that as a tool to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":374.49,"endTime":378.99,"body":"serve the gospel. And yet he"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":374.49,"endTime":378.99,"body":"says, I've determined nothing"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":378.99,"endTime":381.87,"body":"but Jesus Christ and crucified"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":378.99,"endTime":381.87,"body":"and, and then even his is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":381.9,"endTime":385.83,"body":"focusing on, you know, the juicy"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":381.9,"endTime":385.83,"body":"Dr. Signs and the Greek seek"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":385.83,"endTime":390.33,"body":"after knowledge, but we preach"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":385.83,"endTime":390.33,"body":"Christ crucified, I became"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":390.36,"endTime":394.47,"body":"obsessed with those four words,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":390.36,"endTime":394.47,"body":"we preach Christ crucified. And,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":394.65,"endTime":399.15,"body":"and I, it was in that point"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":394.65,"endTime":399.15,"body":"where I realized, like, man, the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":399.15,"endTime":404.73,"body":"cross is, if the gospel is the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":399.15,"endTime":404.73,"body":"center of the Christian message,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":404.73,"endTime":407.82,"body":"the cross is the center of the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":404.73,"endTime":407.82,"body":"gospel. And that if we remove"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":407.82,"endTime":410.52,"body":"the cross, we actually drink"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":407.82,"endTime":410.52,"body":"Christianity of its blood."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":410.88,"endTime":414.21,"body":"Because we can't even talk about"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":410.88,"endTime":414.21,"body":"resurrection insinuates versus"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":414.21,"endTime":418.62,"body":"death. Yep. And, and what I love"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":414.21,"endTime":418.62,"body":"about the crosses it it, it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":418.62,"endTime":423.39,"body":"brings the gospel, literally"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":418.62,"endTime":423.39,"body":"down to earth. It's this, it,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":423.6,"endTime":428.1,"body":"it's like the beauty of that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":423.6,"endTime":428.1,"body":"kind of radical Grace theme that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":428.1,"endTime":432.45,"body":"you that you mentioned about the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":428.1,"endTime":432.45,"body":"book comes out of, you know what"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":432.45,"endTime":436.2,"body":"my friend David's all calls a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":432.45,"endTime":436.2,"body":"low anthropology it's like human"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":436.2,"endTime":440.37,"body":"beings, absolute impotence,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":436.2,"endTime":440.37,"body":"inability to reach God in their"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":440.37,"endTime":443.82,"body":"own strength. That was my whole"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":440.37,"endTime":443.82,"body":"conversion point was that verse"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":443.82,"endTime":446.82,"body":"in Matthew, chapter five says,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":443.82,"endTime":446.82,"body":"Therefore be perfect as your"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":446.82,"endTime":449.88,"body":"Father in heaven is perfect. And"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":446.82,"endTime":449.88,"body":"I remember being so frustrated,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":449.88,"endTime":452.97,"body":"I wanted to throw my Bible out"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":449.88,"endTime":452.97,"body":"the window. And it was in that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":452.97,"endTime":456.18,"body":"moment as like the Holy Spirit,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":452.97,"endTime":456.18,"body":"just like, that's the point is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":456.18,"endTime":459.63,"body":"you can't be it's like Jesus's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":456.18,"endTime":459.63,"body":"laying out an impossible"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":459.63,"endTime":462.48,"body":"possibility. Yeah, he's calling"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":459.63,"endTime":462.48,"body":"us to put faith in His"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":462.48,"endTime":466.17,"body":"perfection, not in ours. The"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":462.48,"endTime":466.17,"body":"gods come down and met me and my"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":466.17,"endTime":471.06,"body":"brokenness in and in the cross"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":466.17,"endTime":471.06,"body":"also is one of those, that those"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":471.39,"endTime":474.39,"body":"elements, there's so many"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":471.39,"endTime":474.39,"body":"aspects to atonement that I find"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":474.39,"endTime":479.25,"body":"so fascinating, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":474.39,"endTime":479.25,"body":"different denominations, and in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":479.25,"endTime":482.22,"body":"groups within, under the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":479.25,"endTime":482.22,"body":"umbrella of Orthodox"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":482.22,"endTime":486.48,"body":"Christianity have have long"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":482.22,"endTime":486.48,"body":"debated over the mechanics of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":486.48,"endTime":491.07,"body":"atonement, and even emphasize"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":486.48,"endTime":491.07,"body":"different elements of it. But I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":491.07,"endTime":495.96,"body":"think that there's a book called"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":491.07,"endTime":495.96,"body":"The mosaic of atonement. That's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":495.96,"endTime":499.65,"body":"a really great book. I think it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":495.96,"endTime":499.65,"body":"is Josh McNally. I think he's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":499.65,"endTime":504.09,"body":"the guy that wrote that book, it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":499.65,"endTime":504.09,"body":"shows how like, different"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":504.18,"endTime":508.68,"body":"different denominations,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":504.18,"endTime":508.68,"body":"Orthodox, the Catholic, the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":508.71,"endTime":511.47,"body":"Protestant but then even within"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":508.71,"endTime":511.47,"body":"Protestant have a different"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":511.47,"endTime":515.31,"body":"emphasis Christus Victor,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":511.47,"endTime":515.31,"body":"Jesus's triumph over the domains"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":515.31,"endTime":519.12,"body":"of darkness, recapitulate"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":515.31,"endTime":519.12,"body":"recapitulation, Jesus as the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":519.12,"endTime":523.5,"body":"second atom in the firstborn"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":519.12,"endTime":523.5,"body":"over new creation, and then"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":523.5,"endTime":527.07,"body":"substitution, you know, the idea"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":523.5,"endTime":527.07,"body":"of Jesus as the as the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":527.4,"endTime":532.02,"body":"scapegoat, essentially, the sin"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":527.4,"endTime":532.02,"body":"bearer. And it's like, depending"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":532.02,"endTime":535.62,"body":"on your denominational leanings,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":532.02,"endTime":535.62,"body":"like there's reformed thinkers"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":535.62,"endTime":539.49,"body":"tend to focus almost primarily"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":535.62,"endTime":539.49,"body":"on penal substitution. Yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":539.49,"endTime":544.05,"body":"know, Eastern Orthodox tends to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":539.49,"endTime":544.05,"body":"focus on on Christus, Victor, or"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":544.05,"endTime":547.05,"body":"recapitulation, but it's like"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":544.05,"endTime":547.05,"body":"they're all there. And and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":547.05,"endTime":549.54,"body":"that's the beauty and the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":547.05,"endTime":549.54,"body":"mystery of the gospel. It's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":549.54,"endTime":553.44,"body":"like, yeah, I need the tribe, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":549.54,"endTime":553.44,"body":"need to substitute it. And I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":553.44,"endTime":556.47,"body":"definitely need Jesus to be the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":553.44,"endTime":556.47,"body":"man that I can't be."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":557.34,"endTime":560.97,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":557.34,"endTime":560.97,"body":"Exactly. And I think, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":561.0,"endTime":563.25,"body":"even with different"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":561.0,"endTime":563.25,"body":"denominations, a lot of it comes"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":563.25,"endTime":568.08,"body":"out of our own cultural biases,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":563.25,"endTime":568.08,"body":"and things that out of who we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":568.08,"endTime":572.46,"body":"are and where we were raised and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":568.08,"endTime":572.46,"body":"how we were brought up. These"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":572.46,"endTime":575.73,"body":"are the things that that we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":572.46,"endTime":575.73,"body":"emphasize within our culture,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":575.76,"endTime":580.41,"body":"even though it's all there, the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":575.76,"endTime":580.41,"body":"ads, you know, that's what I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":580.44,"endTime":583.35,"body":"don't like about all these"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":580.44,"endTime":583.35,"body":"different songs to nominations."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":583.35,"endTime":587.34,"body":"But what I do like about it, is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":583.35,"endTime":587.34,"body":"that we actually need each"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":587.34,"endTime":592.86,"body":"other. Now like a we've"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":587.34,"endTime":592.86,"body":"emphasized this, maybe too much,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":592.95,"endTime":597.96,"body":"and we've lost some different"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":592.95,"endTime":597.96,"body":"aspects of the cross of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":597.99,"endTime":603.39,"body":"atonement of Jesus. And maybe we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":597.99,"endTime":603.39,"body":"missed his, you know, his"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":603.39,"endTime":607.35,"body":"missionary aspect of who Jesus"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":603.39,"endTime":607.35,"body":"is, or, you know, we've missed,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":607.44,"endTime":612.18,"body":"you know, whatever it is with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":607.44,"endTime":612.18,"body":"Jesus. So how do we, how do we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":612.18,"endTime":615.36,"body":"see this, I just give you a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":612.18,"endTime":615.36,"body":"little bit of background for me,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":615.39,"endTime":617.49,"body":"my wife and I were in the Middle"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":615.39,"endTime":617.49,"body":"East, we worked a lot with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":617.49,"endTime":622.68,"body":"Muslims. They love Jesus, His"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":617.49,"endTime":622.68,"body":"prophet, but the cross is very"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":622.68,"endTime":627.84,"body":"offensive to them. How in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":622.68,"endTime":627.84,"body":"world in this man die, a death"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":627.9,"endTime":631.44,"body":"that we should have died, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":627.9,"endTime":631.44,"body":"then resurrected. So they"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":631.44,"endTime":634.65,"body":"believe that, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":631.44,"endTime":634.65,"body":"wasn't it wasn't Jesus on the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":634.65,"endTime":637.59,"body":"cross, or he was switched out at"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":634.65,"endTime":637.59,"body":"the very last second, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":637.65,"endTime":640.59,"body":"because he couldn't die this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":637.65,"endTime":640.59,"body":"death, it's very offensive to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":640.59,"endTime":648.87,"body":"them. Why? And why are we okay?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":640.59,"endTime":648.87,"body":"With all the other aspects of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":648.87,"endTime":652.23,"body":"Jesus, and I'm sure in post,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":648.87,"endTime":652.23,"body":"post Christian Portland where"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":652.23,"endTime":655.8,"body":"you are, you could talk about"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":652.23,"endTime":655.8,"body":"Jesus in his works in his"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":655.8,"endTime":659.94,"body":"ministry and who he is all day"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":655.8,"endTime":659.94,"body":"long, but the cross is so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":659.94,"endTime":663.6,"body":"offensive. Why do we get to that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":659.94,"endTime":663.6,"body":"point of like, this is the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":663.6,"endTime":664.83,"body":"offensive piece?"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":666.36,"endTime":669.87,"body":"Yeah, I think that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":666.36,"endTime":669.87,"body":"the that the bullishness of the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":669.87,"endTime":674.88,"body":"cross is, I think is it's an"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":669.87,"endTime":674.88,"body":"absolute affront, especially in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":674.88,"endTime":679.95,"body":"our modern kind of psychological"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":674.88,"endTime":679.95,"body":"age in which the individual"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":679.95,"endTime":685.38,"body":"experience and they, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":679.95,"endTime":685.38,"body":"were the products of a of a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":685.38,"endTime":693.15,"body":"massive, massive cultural shift,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":685.38,"endTime":693.15,"body":"that that, you know, goes back a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":693.15,"endTime":697.38,"body":"few 100 years, but really took"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":693.15,"endTime":697.38,"body":"root and gain momentum in the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":697.38,"endTime":702.06,"body":"20th century, that now is kind"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":697.38,"endTime":702.06,"body":"of, I think, it's it's run its"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":702.06,"endTime":706.71,"body":"course to its final, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":702.06,"endTime":706.71,"body":"upside down logic. And that,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":706.8,"endTime":712.47,"body":"that is the idea that, it sadly,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":706.8,"endTime":712.47,"body":"I think the church has as fallen"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":712.47,"endTime":719.67,"body":"into many of its trappings. And"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":712.47,"endTime":719.67,"body":"in that is the, the, the central"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":719.67,"endTime":723.45,"body":"importance of the of the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":719.67,"endTime":723.45,"body":"individual experience, a kind of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":723.45,"endTime":727.89,"body":"an existential vision of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":723.45,"endTime":727.89,"body":"existence, where the, the only"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":727.89,"endTime":730.86,"body":"thing that's ultimately real is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":727.89,"endTime":730.86,"body":"my own experience and my own"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":730.86,"endTime":735.06,"body":"feelings. And so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":730.86,"endTime":735.06,"body":"relativism was a was a, you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":735.06,"endTime":741.06,"body":"know, a first first nail the,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":735.06,"endTime":741.06,"body":"the distrust of truth. Now, we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":741.06,"endTime":746.58,"body":"have like a whole, anti"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":741.06,"endTime":746.58,"body":"historical, anti, even anti"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":746.58,"endTime":753.06,"body":"Western intellectual movement of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":746.58,"endTime":753.06,"body":"late ends in Areum, bracing of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":753.33,"endTime":757.23,"body":"kind of Marxist revolutionary"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":753.33,"endTime":757.23,"body":"ideas around like the the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":757.23,"endTime":760.65,"body":"oppressed need to bring down the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":757.23,"endTime":760.65,"body":"oppressor. And the problem is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":760.65,"endTime":763.23,"body":"that because we don't trust"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":760.65,"endTime":763.23,"body":"history any longer we forget"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":763.23,"endTime":766.17,"body":"that every time the oppressor,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":763.23,"endTime":766.17,"body":"the oppressed, brings down the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":766.17,"endTime":769.68,"body":"oppressor, they just create"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":766.17,"endTime":769.68,"body":"something more oppressive. And"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":769.68,"endTime":773.04,"body":"it kind of plays into our whole"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":769.68,"endTime":773.04,"body":"victim culture. The cross is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":773.04,"endTime":776.61,"body":"offensive, because it actually"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":773.04,"endTime":776.61,"body":"it actually becomes as Rene"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":776.61,"endTime":781.23,"body":"Girard points out, one of my"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":776.61,"endTime":781.23,"body":"favorite philosophers who really"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":781.23,"endTime":784.59,"body":"developed the idea of my mimetic"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":781.23,"endTime":784.59,"body":"rivalry that everything in human"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":785.13,"endTime":787.95,"body":"in human history in a fallen"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":785.13,"endTime":787.95,"body":"state is that we're driven by"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":787.95,"endTime":792.09,"body":"the desire for what others have."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":787.95,"endTime":792.09,"body":"And that desire, desire is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":792.09,"endTime":794.94,"body":"actually what it means we made"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":792.09,"endTime":794.94,"body":"the image of God, but sin has"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":795.45,"endTime":798.93,"body":"caused us to focus our desire on"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":795.45,"endTime":798.93,"body":"people rather than we desire to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":798.93,"endTime":802.74,"body":"be with God. And when when God"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":798.93,"endTime":802.74,"body":"we notice desire to have what"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":802.74,"endTime":807.15,"body":"isn't ours, and then to possess"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":802.74,"endTime":807.15,"body":"it at all costs, which creates"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":807.36,"endTime":810.69,"body":"the scapegoat mechanism and the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":807.36,"endTime":810.69,"body":"need for violence, you know, he"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":810.69,"endTime":814.62,"body":"moves to violence. And I think"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":810.69,"endTime":814.62,"body":"that the that there is, there's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":814.62,"endTime":818.34,"body":"kind of a violent response to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":814.62,"endTime":818.34,"body":"the cross, because the cross"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":818.46,"endTime":821.82,"body":"tells the individual, that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":818.46,"endTime":821.82,"body":"they're not the most important"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":821.82,"endTime":826.38,"body":"thing in the universe. And not"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":821.82,"endTime":826.38,"body":"only that, that the great model"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":826.38,"endTime":831.57,"body":"of you can do anything, you can"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":826.38,"endTime":831.57,"body":"be anything. The, the demand of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":831.57,"endTime":834.33,"body":"the cross is actually an"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":831.57,"endTime":834.33,"body":"acceptance of your actual"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":834.36,"endTime":838.68,"body":"inability. That's why That's why"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":834.36,"endTime":838.68,"body":"I actually love 12, the 12 step"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":838.68,"endTime":841.71,"body":"program, yeah, because the 12"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":838.68,"endTime":841.71,"body":"step program, its effectiveness"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":841.71,"endTime":844.62,"body":"is actually and I think it's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":841.71,"endTime":844.62,"body":"actually probably a more"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":844.62,"endTime":848.22,"body":"beautiful and pure picture model"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":844.62,"endTime":848.22,"body":"of what the church should"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":848.22,"endTime":851.22,"body":"function like, which is the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":848.22,"endTime":851.22,"body":"people who have come to the end"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":851.22,"endTime":855.57,"body":"of themselves, and recognize"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":851.22,"endTime":855.57,"body":"that they cannot do this without"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":855.57,"endTime":858.45,"body":"the help of others, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":855.57,"endTime":858.45,"body":"ultimately, without the help of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":858.45,"endTime":861.66,"body":"God in its higher power,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":858.45,"endTime":861.66,"body":"whatever. But the idea is like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":861.96,"endTime":866.25,"body":"it's a it's a radical"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":861.96,"endTime":866.25,"body":"confessional community that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":866.28,"endTime":870.51,"body":"recognizes their impotence"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":866.28,"endTime":870.51,"body":"without so they they continue to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":870.51,"endTime":874.92,"body":"call themselves alcoholics even"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":870.51,"endTime":874.92,"body":"in that actually in the context"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":874.92,"endTime":878.67,"body":"that community is their triumph"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":874.92,"endTime":878.67,"body":"over alcoholism. I think that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":878.67,"endTime":882.0,"body":"that's the Christians are"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":878.67,"endTime":882.0,"body":"sainthood is actually the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":882.0,"endTime":884.67,"body":"triumph of sainthood is actually"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":882.0,"endTime":884.67,"body":"found in our continual"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":884.82,"endTime":888.27,"body":"recognition of our of our"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":884.82,"endTime":888.27,"body":"sinfulness and our desperate"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":888.27,"endTime":892.92,"body":"need for dependence upon the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":888.27,"endTime":892.92,"body":"sinless Jesus. The cross is the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":892.95,"endTime":899.04,"body":"is the leveler it eradicates our"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":892.95,"endTime":899.04,"body":"ability to be the victim. And"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":899.07,"endTime":902.04,"body":"because it forces Just remember"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":899.07,"endTime":902.04,"body":"that Jesus died for the victim"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":902.04,"endTime":906.63,"body":"and the victimizer. And that he"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":902.04,"endTime":906.63,"body":"spoke the judge and the judge in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":906.63,"endTime":910.35,"body":"our place. And so, so I think"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":906.63,"endTime":910.35,"body":"that it's offensiveness comes"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":910.35,"endTime":915.63,"body":"down to, is that you have to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":910.35,"endTime":915.63,"body":"acknowledge that you can't save"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":915.63,"endTime":919.8,"body":"yourself. And we human,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":915.63,"endTime":919.8,"body":"everything in human history is,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":920.22,"endTime":925.77,"body":"is built upon, upon kind of what"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":920.22,"endTime":925.77,"body":"I call ladder theology in the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":925.77,"endTime":927.87,"body":"book, but it's the you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":925.77,"endTime":927.87,"body":"it's I agree with Luther,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":927.87,"endTime":931.23,"body":"everything can be split into"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":927.87,"endTime":931.23,"body":"long gospel, and ladder theology"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":931.23,"endTime":935.73,"body":"is that the heroic, the heroic"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":931.23,"endTime":935.73,"body":"journey, I'm like, I'm gonna, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":935.73,"endTime":941.25,"body":"gotta climb my way up, I gotta"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":935.73,"endTime":941.25,"body":"prove my, my, my, my worth, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":941.25,"endTime":946.53,"body":"need to, I need to find my"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":941.25,"endTime":946.53,"body":"enoughness in X ABCD when you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":946.53,"endTime":950.13,"body":"name it, and but there's never"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":946.53,"endTime":950.13,"body":"sat ultimate satisfaction and in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":950.13,"endTime":954.51,"body":"those stakes, which you and I,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":950.13,"endTime":954.51,"body":"you're swimming, you're close to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":954.51,"endTime":957.54,"body":"my age, like I gotta be next"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":954.51,"endTime":957.54,"body":"month. Like that's what they"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":957.54,"endTime":961.2,"body":"call a midlife crisis is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":957.54,"endTime":961.2,"body":"realizing that, that the heroic,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":961.56,"endTime":965.31,"body":"beautiful rolling said doesn't,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":961.56,"endTime":965.31,"body":"it doesn't lead us where we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":965.31,"endTime":967.56,"body":"thought it was gonna lead. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":965.31,"endTime":967.56,"body":"now I gotta figure out what"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":967.56,"endTime":970.26,"body":"we're gonna do for the second"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":967.56,"endTime":970.26,"body":"half of our lives. Yeah, that we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":970.29,"endTime":973.5,"body":"discovered the ceiling of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":970.29,"endTime":973.5,"body":"limitations."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":975.419,"endTime":978.179,"body":"It's helpful. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":975.419,"endTime":978.179,"body":"mean, I don't know if it would"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":978.179,"endTime":981.299,"body":"be it would have been helpful,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":978.179,"endTime":981.299,"body":"you know, 25 years ago to be"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":981.299,"endTime":984.569,"body":"able to figure out the ceiling"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":981.299,"endTime":984.569,"body":"of your limitations, I'm sure it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":984.569,"endTime":989.099,"body":"would have been but you know, in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":984.569,"endTime":989.099,"body":"your, your youthful zeal to be"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":989.099,"endTime":993.239,"body":"able to climb the ladder and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":989.099,"endTime":993.239,"body":"continue to move forward. It's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":993.239,"endTime":997.589,"body":"really difficult to get to that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":993.239,"endTime":997.589,"body":"midlife crisis to say, Okay, I'm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":997.589,"endTime":1001.369,"body":"actually getting to the end of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":997.589,"endTime":1001.369,"body":"myself. And this is where God is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1001.369,"endTime":1005.599,"body":"beginning. And this is where I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1001.369,"endTime":1005.599,"body":"have to, like, surrender all to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1005.599,"endTime":1007.459,"body":"him. You know, that's,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1007.49,"endTime":1010.19,"body":"that's the that's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1007.49,"endTime":1010.19,"body":"the absolute, like, we're"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1010.22,"endTime":1015.35,"body":"talking about the our absolute"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1010.22,"endTime":1015.35,"body":"disdain, when a celebrity takes"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1015.35,"endTime":1019.43,"body":"his own life. And I said, it's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1015.35,"endTime":1019.43,"body":"not, it's not like when Kurt"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1019.43,"endTime":1023.27,"body":"Cobain killed himself, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1019.43,"endTime":1023.27,"body":"it wasn't that everyone was in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1023.27,"endTime":1027.02,"body":"love with Kurt Cobain, that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1023.27,"endTime":1027.02,"body":"created the distress in this"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1027.02,"endTime":1030.17,"body":"whole generation of young"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1027.02,"endTime":1030.17,"body":"people. He became like a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1030.17,"endTime":1032.75,"body":"principal in Scripture, he"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1030.17,"endTime":1032.75,"body":"became the one for the many a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1032.75,"endTime":1038.72,"body":"voice of discontent, of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1032.75,"endTime":1038.72,"body":"frustration of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1039.59,"endTime":1043.73,"body":"despair and fear and II, he"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1039.59,"endTime":1043.73,"body":"becomes this voice, but he"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1043.73,"endTime":1047.84,"body":"reaches the pinnacle of human"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1043.73,"endTime":1047.84,"body":"achievement. Any then he just"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1047.84,"endTime":1053.36,"body":"throws it away. In this in this,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1047.84,"endTime":1053.36,"body":"this, this crazy moment, where"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1053.36,"endTime":1056.18,"body":"he just take all of a sudden"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1053.36,"endTime":1056.18,"body":"takes his life. And our freakout"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1056.18,"endTime":1059.81,"body":"is that it's like, he got to the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1056.18,"endTime":1059.81,"body":"where none of us will get, we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1059.81,"endTime":1062.99,"body":"can't even get to Basecamp this"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1059.81,"endTime":1062.99,"body":"guy get over the top. And it's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1062.99,"endTime":1065.51,"body":"like, he looks down from the top"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1062.99,"endTime":1065.51,"body":"of the mountain and says, Sorry,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1065.51,"endTime":1069.02,"body":"guys, there's nothing up here."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1065.51,"endTime":1069.02,"body":"And so our upset is not that we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1069.05,"endTime":1072.74,"body":"cared about him, as much as we'd"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1069.05,"endTime":1072.74,"body":"like to think are upset is that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1073.13,"endTime":1076.49,"body":"is that he just revealed to us"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1073.13,"endTime":1076.49,"body":"that what we're chasing after"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1076.49,"endTime":1080.96,"body":"isn't, isn't it isn't the thing."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1076.49,"endTime":1080.96,"body":"And that's where I think that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1080.96,"endTime":1086.99,"body":"the cross is like, the great"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1080.96,"endTime":1086.99,"body":"leveler, it it actually brings a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1086.99,"endTime":1091.61,"body":"realistic vision of life, and at"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1086.99,"endTime":1091.61,"body":"the same time and unbelievable,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1092.03,"endTime":1096.95,"body":"almost. It will it is a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1092.03,"endTime":1096.95,"body":"transcendent Vision of Hope out"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1096.98,"endTime":1100.97,"body":"because God because God's like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1096.98,"endTime":1100.97,"body":"you can't get to me, but I can"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1100.97,"endTime":1104.03,"body":"come to you, and why would he"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1100.97,"endTime":1104.03,"body":"come to us. And that's the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1104.03,"endTime":1107.66,"body":"mystery of His love, His grace,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1104.03,"endTime":1107.66,"body":"a love without contingency, that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1107.66,"endTime":1110.69,"body":"the first word is Father forgive"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1107.66,"endTime":1110.69,"body":"them. Because it's God's heart"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1110.69,"endTime":1113.42,"body":"to forgive. And that isn't some"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1110.69,"endTime":1113.42,"body":"mysterious then"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1114.41,"endTime":1118.82,"body":"it is, and this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1114.41,"endTime":1118.82,"body":"radical grace to move into, to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1118.82,"endTime":1126.2,"body":"this, it actually drives us into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1118.82,"endTime":1126.2,"body":"being part of, of community. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1126.26,"endTime":1130.52,"body":"one of the things now as we are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1126.26,"endTime":1130.52,"body":"the church, and we're the body"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1130.52,"endTime":1133.88,"body":"of Christ, and we're continuing"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1130.52,"endTime":1133.88,"body":"to be in this community, to give"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1133.88,"endTime":1137.18,"body":"grace to others. You talked a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1133.88,"endTime":1137.18,"body":"little bit you you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1137.18,"endTime":1142.43,"body":"Gerards mimetic theory. And so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1137.18,"endTime":1142.43,"body":"if we have some mimetic desire,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1142.43,"endTime":1148.82,"body":"so if we're desiring something"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1142.43,"endTime":1148.82,"body":"that is not Jesus, the ones"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1148.82,"endTime":1152.12,"body":"around us will start to desire"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1148.82,"endTime":1152.12,"body":"that as well. Right, we're going"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1152.12,"endTime":1157.46,"body":"to start to mimic the desires of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1152.12,"endTime":1157.46,"body":"the people around us. So how"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1157.46,"endTime":1163.07,"body":"within community can we start to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1157.46,"endTime":1163.07,"body":"desire Christ to know that it's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1163.07,"endTime":1167.27,"body":"the end of me, that I'm not"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1163.07,"endTime":1167.27,"body":"trying to climb this ladder so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1167.27,"endTime":1171.32,"body":"that everybody else around me"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1167.27,"endTime":1171.32,"body":"desires that, that ladder climb?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1171.65,"endTime":1175.58,"body":"But I'm the one that desires"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1171.65,"endTime":1175.58,"body":"Christ or our community desires,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1175.58,"endTime":1181.19,"body":"Christ above all, so that we all"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1175.58,"endTime":1181.19,"body":"can start to desire Christ"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1181.19,"endTime":1184.1,"body":"instead of gets, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1181.19,"endTime":1184.1,"body":"caught up in all of our"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1184.16,"endTime":1187.37,"body":"infighting and, and things just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1184.16,"endTime":1187.37,"body":"to jostle for power."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1188.42,"endTime":1191.81,"body":"Yet Well, I think"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1188.42,"endTime":1191.81,"body":"that it goes back to that that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1191.81,"endTime":1195.59,"body":"passage in First Corinthians"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1191.81,"endTime":1195.59,"body":"one, the juicy chapter signs,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1195.62,"endTime":1198.89,"body":"the Greeks egifter knowledge. I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1195.62,"endTime":1198.89,"body":"see often there's this the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1198.89,"endTime":1203.39,"body":"strange battle between those two"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1198.89,"endTime":1203.39,"body":"realities, one is pride and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1203.39,"endTime":1210.38,"body":"experience. The other is pride"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1203.39,"endTime":1210.38,"body":"in knowledge. And I see that in,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1210.8,"endTime":1216.95,"body":"and my more reformed circle of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1210.8,"endTime":1216.95,"body":"friends, that the pursuit of you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1216.95,"endTime":1220.67,"body":"know, there, there's a deep"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1216.95,"endTime":1220.67,"body":"passion for being, being"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1221.3,"endTime":1226.64,"body":"theologically right. Being sound"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1221.3,"endTime":1226.64,"body":"that is almost like many of my"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1226.64,"endTime":1228.86,"body":"report points of view, it's like"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1226.64,"endTime":1228.86,"body":"they almost feel it. It's like"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1228.86,"endTime":1233.03,"body":"their responsibility to be in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1228.86,"endTime":1233.03,"body":"the police of good theology."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1233.99,"endTime":1237.47,"body":"Like they hold the corner on it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1233.99,"endTime":1237.47,"body":"or something. But my really"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1237.47,"endTime":1241.16,"body":"charismatic friends, like, they,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1237.47,"endTime":1241.16,"body":"they're like, whatever, I don't"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1241.16,"endTime":1244.88,"body":"care about that. Like, I want to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1241.16,"endTime":1244.88,"body":"know how it actually change how"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1244.88,"endTime":1248.78,"body":"it how do I experience God? How"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1244.88,"endTime":1248.78,"body":"do I once the How does it? How"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1248.78,"endTime":1251.6,"body":"does it change my life, I want"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1248.78,"endTime":1251.6,"body":"to see the power of the gospel."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1251.84,"endTime":1255.89,"body":"And so the experience overrides"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1251.84,"endTime":1255.89,"body":"the theology, you know, not that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1255.89,"endTime":1259.28,"body":"it's without theology, and not"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1255.89,"endTime":1259.28,"body":"that, that those that Chase"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1259.28,"endTime":1262.97,"body":"theology are devoid of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1259.28,"endTime":1262.97,"body":"experience. I just think that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1263.12,"endTime":1269.0,"body":"the the enemy's great work, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1263.12,"endTime":1269.0,"body":"would say that Satan's greatest"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1269.0,"endTime":1273.65,"body":"work is not outside of the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1269.0,"endTime":1273.65,"body":"church in that pagan universe,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1273.92,"endTime":1277.4,"body":"that seems to be under his rule,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1273.92,"endTime":1277.4,"body":"the greatest work is his ability"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1277.4,"endTime":1281.3,"body":"to take God servants and turn"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1277.4,"endTime":1281.3,"body":"them into his own tools. And,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1281.51,"endTime":1284.63,"body":"and I think that he does that by"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1281.51,"endTime":1284.63,"body":"getting our focus off of the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1284.63,"endTime":1289.94,"body":"cross and onto, on to things"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1284.63,"endTime":1289.94,"body":"that actually matter. Experience"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1289.94,"endTime":1292.73,"body":"matters. Knowledge matters, we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1289.94,"endTime":1292.73,"body":"want to we want to have"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1292.73,"endTime":1297.8,"body":"understanding, we want to have"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1292.73,"endTime":1297.8,"body":"intimacy. But but we want to be"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1297.8,"endTime":1300.86,"body":"people that function in power,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1297.8,"endTime":1300.86,"body":"not in fear, you know, we want"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1300.86,"endTime":1305.81,"body":"to be a people that have wisdom,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1300.86,"endTime":1305.81,"body":"not not foolishness, however,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1306.02,"endTime":1310.79,"body":"the cross is the place that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1306.02,"endTime":1310.79,"body":"keeps it's the anchor in the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1310.79,"endTime":1316.58,"body":"center, that that produces the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1310.79,"endTime":1316.58,"body":"humility necessary to have the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1316.58,"endTime":1319.79,"body":"proper intimate experience and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1316.58,"endTime":1319.79,"body":"the proper pursuit of knowledge."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1320.0,"endTime":1323.12,"body":"But we lose sight of that. And"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1320.0,"endTime":1323.12,"body":"so that's where I see those"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1323.12,"endTime":1326.6,"body":"battles. It's like the, you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1323.12,"endTime":1326.6,"body":"know, the, I've seen the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1326.6,"endTime":1331.1,"body":"spiritual pride that so could,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1326.6,"endTime":1331.1,"body":"can quickly take over not just"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1331.1,"endTime":1336.14,"body":"like a church leader, but over a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1331.1,"endTime":1336.14,"body":"church community. And, and all"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1336.14,"endTime":1339.2,"body":"of a sudden, once again, it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1336.14,"endTime":1339.2,"body":"becomes an us against them"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1343.49,"body":"mentality. It's why I got so"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1343.49,"body":"disheartened during 2020. And"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1343.49,"endTime":1345.5,"body":"it's like, all the sudden said,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1343.49,"endTime":1345.5,"body":"the church talking about the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1345.5,"endTime":1350.06,"body":"gospel, the church is talking"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1345.5,"endTime":1350.06,"body":"about, about social justice"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1350.06,"endTime":1353.54,"body":"issues, or politics and like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1350.06,"endTime":1353.54,"body":"and really the two are married."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1353.9,"endTime":1357.38,"body":"And it's not that we shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1353.9,"endTime":1357.38,"body":"be, we shouldn't be good"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1357.38,"endTime":1361.19,"body":"citizens. And it's not that we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1357.38,"endTime":1361.19,"body":"shouldn't carry care about the,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1362.12,"endTime":1368.18,"body":"the, the impacts of, of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1362.12,"endTime":1368.18,"body":"modernity, on on the on the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1368.18,"endTime":1372.83,"body":"vulnerable or the broken in our"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1368.18,"endTime":1372.83,"body":"society. But But it became, it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1372.83,"endTime":1379.91,"body":"became a vitriolic, and even a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1372.83,"endTime":1379.91,"body":"radicalized atmosphere, instead"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1379.91,"endTime":1383.03,"body":"of being radical for Jesus, it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1379.91,"endTime":1383.03,"body":"became radical for this"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1383.03,"endTime":1386.27,"body":"particular cultural point of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1383.03,"endTime":1386.27,"body":"view. And all of a sudden, a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1386.27,"endTime":1389.33,"body":"gospel is like left, the cross"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1386.27,"endTime":1389.33,"body":"is not even a conversation"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1389.36,"endTime":1393.44,"body":"piece. You know, it's like wear"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1389.36,"endTime":1393.44,"body":"it in. And now we've got a whole"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1393.44,"endTime":1398.9,"body":"new like land filled with"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1393.44,"endTime":1398.9,"body":"scapegoats. So, so I think"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1398.9,"endTime":1403.52,"body":"that'd be one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1398.9,"endTime":1403.52,"body":"post the church post COVID has"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1403.52,"endTime":1407.99,"body":"got to learn is I think that the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1403.52,"endTime":1407.99,"body":"world is tired. I think the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1407.99,"endTime":1412.7,"body":"distaste for Christendom has"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1407.99,"endTime":1412.7,"body":"some something to do with the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1412.7,"endTime":1415.25,"body":"fact that Jesus said, If the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1412.7,"endTime":1415.25,"body":"world hated me, it'll hate you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1415.25,"endTime":1419.18,"body":"as well. But I actually, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1415.25,"endTime":1419.18,"body":"actually push back and say,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1419.66,"endTime":1425.0,"body":"well, that statement is true."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1419.66,"endTime":1425.0,"body":"But what we're often heated for,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1425.18,"endTime":1429.65,"body":"is not for our love for Jesus or"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1425.18,"endTime":1429.65,"body":"for one another, were hated for"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1429.95,"endTime":1434.36,"body":"the hypocrisy that the world"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1429.95,"endTime":1434.36,"body":"experiences when they see a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1434.36,"endTime":1437.09,"body":"bunch of Christians trying to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1434.36,"endTime":1437.09,"body":"present an ideal that they"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1437.09,"endTime":1440.57,"body":"themselves can't keep. Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1437.09,"endTime":1440.57,"body":"and that's in that's where I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1440.57,"endTime":1445.79,"body":"think so I think that we need a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1440.57,"endTime":1445.79,"body":"communal. The cross pushes us"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1445.79,"endTime":1451.19,"body":"into a position of a communal,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1445.79,"endTime":1451.19,"body":"confessional kind of spirit. And"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1451.19,"endTime":1453.47,"body":"it's like, we talk about"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1451.19,"endTime":1453.47,"body":"vulnerability. But usually, when"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1453.47,"endTime":1455.27,"body":"Christians talk about"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1453.47,"endTime":1455.27,"body":"vulnerability, they just mean"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1455.27,"endTime":1463.16,"body":"they read a Brene Brown book."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1455.27,"endTime":1463.16,"body":"And as lovely as her writing on"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1463.16,"endTime":1466.61,"body":"vulnerability is it's like, it's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1463.16,"endTime":1466.61,"body":"like, I don't know what it is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1466.61,"endTime":1470.03,"body":"about Christians and their"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1466.61,"endTime":1470.03,"body":"inability to be really odd,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1470.03,"endTime":1472.43,"body":"especially pastors. I think"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1470.03,"endTime":1472.43,"body":"that's why we keep having"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1472.43,"endTime":1473.33,"body":"pastors fall."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1473.6,"endTime":1475.73,"body":"It's like,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1473.6,"endTime":1475.73,"body":"because we have to hide who we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1475.73,"endTime":1478.82,"body":"really are. What's going on and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1475.73,"endTime":1478.82,"body":"in LA, you know, something's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1478.82,"endTime":1482.93,"body":"wrong. We think everybody's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1478.82,"endTime":1482.93,"body":"gonna leave us. You know? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1482.93,"endTime":1483.08,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1483.08,"endTime":1486.11,"body":"remember hearing an"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1483.08,"endTime":1486.11,"body":"old pastor, a part of the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1486.11,"endTime":1488.9,"body":"movement that I was a part of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1486.11,"endTime":1488.9,"body":"that was talking about how not"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1488.9,"endTime":1493.82,"body":"to even buy Martinelli sparkling"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1488.9,"endTime":1493.82,"body":"cider because it might give"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1493.82,"endTime":1497.69,"body":"someone the assumption that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1493.82,"endTime":1497.69,"body":"you're buying alcohol. But that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1497.69,"endTime":1501.53,"body":"same pastor was you know, the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1497.69,"endTime":1501.53,"body":"notorious for putting other"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1501.53,"endTime":1505.13,"body":"pastors who had had affairs back"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1501.53,"endTime":1505.13,"body":"in the pulpit. And I'm like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1505.13,"endTime":1510.2,"body":"like, man talks about selective"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1505.13,"endTime":1510.2,"body":"sanctification. Like, we find"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1510.2,"endTime":1512.66,"body":"that we find the things that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1510.2,"endTime":1512.66,"body":"will, you know, make us feel"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1512.66,"endTime":1515.78,"body":"alright in the world, like, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1512.66,"endTime":1515.78,"body":"don't wear, I don't drink, but I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1515.78,"endTime":1520.34,"body":"might be duplicitous, and having"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1515.78,"endTime":1520.34,"body":"a totally secret life. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1520.91,"endTime":1522.14,"body":"Well, then how"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1520.91,"endTime":1522.14,"body":"think that we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1522.14,"endTime":1525.14,"body":"have to live out out"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1522.14,"endTime":1525.14,"body":"that brokenness openly, the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1525.14,"endTime":1528.35,"body":"victory is actually that we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1525.14,"endTime":1528.35,"body":"don't have to live in a position"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1528.35,"endTime":1531.62,"body":"of defeat, because of the sin is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1528.35,"endTime":1531.62,"body":"still at play in our bodies."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1588.29,"endTime":1593.54,"body":"Yeah. And that's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1588.29,"endTime":1593.54,"body":"really good. So my question was,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1593.54,"endTime":1597.1399999999999,"body":"like, how do we start to do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1593.54,"endTime":1597.1399999999999,"body":"that? How do we live out our"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1597.1399999999999,"endTime":1601.61,"body":"brokenness together? And, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1597.1399999999999,"endTime":1601.61,"body":"know, as you said, you know, 12"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1601.61,"endTime":1605.96,"body":"Step, the 12 step program, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1601.61,"endTime":1605.96,"body":"know, I've seen a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1605.96,"endTime":1608.99,"body":"coming into the doors of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1605.96,"endTime":1608.99,"body":"church that have that are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1608.99,"endTime":1613.76,"body":"working the 12 step program,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1608.99,"endTime":1613.76,"body":"and, and to me, it brings life"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1613.76,"endTime":1616.52,"body":"to the congregation and brings"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1613.76,"endTime":1616.52,"body":"life to the community of God"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1616.52,"endTime":1620.24,"body":"that's there, because there is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1616.52,"endTime":1620.24,"body":"a, a more of a radical"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1620.24,"endTime":1624.29,"body":"vulnerability saying, A, this is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1620.24,"endTime":1624.29,"body":"who I am, and I'm at the end of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1624.29,"endTime":1627.86,"body":"myself, and I need God. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1624.29,"endTime":1627.86,"body":"shouldn't we all be at this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1627.86,"endTime":1635.42,"body":"space? How do we live into this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1627.86,"endTime":1635.42,"body":"open brokenness, that, that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1635.42,"endTime":1642.29,"body":"helps people heal and move"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1635.42,"endTime":1642.29,"body":"forward towards a Jesus that is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1642.32,"endTime":1647.57,"body":"good and hopeful and and great,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1642.32,"endTime":1647.57,"body":"and doesn't just wallow in our"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1647.57,"endTime":1648.5,"body":"brokenness?"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1649.28,"endTime":1653.33,"body":"Yeah. Well, I, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1649.28,"endTime":1653.33,"body":"make a comment in the book about"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1653.69,"endTime":1656.96,"body":"the about the power of the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1653.69,"endTime":1656.96,"body":"discipline of confession, you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1656.96,"endTime":1660.02,"body":"know, there's a renewed interest"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1656.96,"endTime":1660.02,"body":"right now in spiritual"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1660.02,"endTime":1663.32,"body":"formation, and the works of guys"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1660.02,"endTime":1663.32,"body":"like Dallas Willard or Richard"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1663.32,"endTime":1668.6,"body":"Foster. And, you know, I, I have"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1663.32,"endTime":1668.6,"body":"my, I have things that have"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1668.66,"endTime":1672.41,"body":"benefited greatly from those"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1668.66,"endTime":1672.41,"body":"guys. And, and I'm all for"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1672.41,"endTime":1676.73,"body":"spiritual disciplines, but often"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1672.41,"endTime":1676.73,"body":"the contemplative practices,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1677.3899999999999,"endTime":1680.45,"body":"which I'm a little more leery"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1677.3899999999999,"endTime":1680.45,"body":"of, like, solitude and silence,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1680.45,"endTime":1683.24,"body":"I'm kind of with Bucha. Right. I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1680.45,"endTime":1683.24,"body":"think solitude is the devil's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1683.24,"endTime":1687.17,"body":"playground. And I think that too"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1683.24,"endTime":1687.17,"body":"many pastors spend way too much"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1687.17,"endTime":1690.68,"body":"time alone. Yes, it's the I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1687.17,"endTime":1690.68,"body":"mean, I know that I have, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1690.68,"endTime":1694.07,"body":"times where it just, it just"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1690.68,"endTime":1694.07,"body":"gets too much and, and then we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1694.07,"endTime":1697.7,"body":"justify it by, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1694.07,"endTime":1697.7,"body":"misapplying passage like Acts"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1697.7,"endTime":1700.58,"body":"chapter six, we're taking"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1697.7,"endTime":1700.58,"body":"something and making it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1700.58,"endTime":1703.49,"body":"prescriptive, like we didn't, it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1700.58,"endTime":1703.49,"body":"doesn't even say that the Holy"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1703.49,"endTime":1707.06,"body":"Spirit led those guys to say"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1703.49,"endTime":1707.06,"body":"that all we should be doing is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1707.06,"endTime":1711.29,"body":"praying and studying the Word"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1707.06,"endTime":1711.29,"body":"had, we're like, this is the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1711.29,"endTime":1713.87,"body":"establishment of deacons. It"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1711.29,"endTime":1713.87,"body":"doesn't say that anywhere in the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1713.87,"endTime":1716.6,"body":"text. And those guys did not"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1713.87,"endTime":1716.6,"body":"function like deacons. They"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1716.6,"endTime":1721.43,"body":"function like apostles, while"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1716.6,"endTime":1721.43,"body":"the apostles were awake, praying"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1721.43,"endTime":1725.87,"body":"and, and seeking God's eye, you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1721.43,"endTime":1725.87,"body":"know, I'm leery of anything that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1725.87,"endTime":1729.71,"body":"pushes us into isolation. I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1725.87,"endTime":1729.71,"body":"think the great here for the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1729.71,"endTime":1733.82,"body":"church today is that we need to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1729.71,"endTime":1733.82,"body":"get away from and it is very"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1733.82,"endTime":1736.19,"body":"difficult, because there's a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1733.82,"endTime":1736.19,"body":"million voices buying"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1736.19,"endTime":1740.15,"body":"perfection, but we, we have to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1736.19,"endTime":1740.15,"body":"break free from the hyper"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1740.15,"endTime":1744.2,"body":"individualism of our culture."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1740.15,"endTime":1744.2,"body":"And we need to come back to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1744.2,"endTime":1747.8,"body":"communal language. The Church"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1744.2,"endTime":1747.8,"body":"Fathers were very specific. They"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1748.7,"endTime":1752.57,"body":"know there's no language in our"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1748.7,"endTime":1752.57,"body":"theology books, it says, One"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1752.57,"endTime":1757.31,"body":"God, three individuals. It says"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1752.57,"endTime":1757.31,"body":"when God three persons and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1757.43,"endTime":1761.21,"body":"individual is our uniqueness"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1757.43,"endTime":1761.21,"body":"defined apart from others,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1761.24,"endTime":1763.94,"body":"personhood is our uniqueness to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1761.24,"endTime":1763.94,"body":"find in the context of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1763.94,"endTime":1767.36,"body":"relationship with others. That's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1763.94,"endTime":1767.36,"body":"a biblical vision of uniqueness."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1767.69,"endTime":1772.4,"body":"I like the uniqueness of who I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1767.69,"endTime":1772.4,"body":"am, as Josh White is found in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1772.4,"endTime":1775.22,"body":"the context of my relationship"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1772.4,"endTime":1775.22,"body":"with the community, our gifts"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1775.22,"endTime":1778.49,"body":"are discovered in the context of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1775.22,"endTime":1778.49,"body":"the community, our victory over"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1778.49,"endTime":1782.0,"body":"sin is found in the context of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1778.49,"endTime":1782.0,"body":"community. And it's a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1782.0,"endTime":1785.84,"body":"confessional place where I say"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1782.0,"endTime":1785.84,"body":"that when we confess our sin, it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1785.84,"endTime":1788.87,"body":"actually becomes the place where"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1785.84,"endTime":1788.87,"body":"we meet God most powerfully, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1788.87,"endTime":1791.69,"body":"not just to God, but to one"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1788.87,"endTime":1791.69,"body":"another. Now, that puts us in a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1791.69,"endTime":1794.51,"body":"position of humility and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1791.69,"endTime":1794.51,"body":"gentleness and how we care for"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1794.51,"endTime":1799.07,"body":"one another. And it's risky,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1794.51,"endTime":1799.07,"body":"it's messy. And someone might"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1799.07,"endTime":1802.8799999999999,"body":"even use your confession against"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1799.07,"endTime":1802.8799999999999,"body":"you. And that's, but that's the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1802.8799999999999,"endTime":1806.06,"body":"risk that it's worth. And it's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1802.8799999999999,"endTime":1806.06,"body":"it's actually far more"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1806.06,"endTime":1811.1,"body":"dangerous. To, to hide, because"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1806.06,"endTime":1811.1,"body":"the whole essence the first"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1811.1,"endTime":1815.57,"body":"consequence of sin is hiding."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1811.1,"endTime":1815.57,"body":"It's like, there's, that's the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1815.57,"endTime":1819.08,"body":"outcome they hit. And so like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1815.57,"endTime":1819.08,"body":"we should be reflecting the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1819.08,"endTime":1821.6299999999999,"body":"opposite. What does it look like"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1819.08,"endTime":1821.6299999999999,"body":"to come into the light, and the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1821.6299999999999,"endTime":1824.24,"body":"more we come into the light, the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1821.6299999999999,"endTime":1824.24,"body":"more we'll begin to actually"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1824.24,"endTime":1827.6,"body":"have victory over the sin that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1824.24,"endTime":1827.6,"body":"we had once. And so that's where"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1827.6,"endTime":1832.91,"body":"I think that what we give a lot"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1827.6,"endTime":1832.91,"body":"of space at door of hope for for"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1832.91,"endTime":1836.87,"body":"confession, and call up and I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1832.91,"endTime":1836.87,"body":"try to model it as a preacher."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1836.9,"endTime":1839.72,"body":"Some people are uncomfortable"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1836.9,"endTime":1839.72,"body":"with that and not like you want"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1839.72,"endTime":1843.95,"body":"to you don't want to glorify"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1839.72,"endTime":1843.95,"body":"sin, obviously, or even or take"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1843.95,"endTime":1847.55,"body":"lightly the consequences of sin"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1843.95,"endTime":1847.55,"body":"but we also at the same time"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1847.55,"endTime":1851.78,"body":"need to hold tenaciously to the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1847.55,"endTime":1851.78,"body":"fact that Jesus has dealt with"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1851.78,"endTime":1856.07,"body":"sin that sin, you know, in the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1851.78,"endTime":1856.07,"body":"word, so I think it was Saddam"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1856.07,"endTime":1861.83,"body":"that said that Sin died. We ask"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1856.07,"endTime":1861.83,"body":"Jesus on the cross, that all sin"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1861.83,"endTime":1864.59,"body":"past, present and future has"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1861.83,"endTime":1864.59,"body":"been forgiven. But even"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1864.59,"endTime":1867.5,"body":"forgiven, sin still has the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1864.59,"endTime":1867.5,"body":"ability to wreak havoc in our"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1867.5,"endTime":1870.5,"body":"lives. And that's why we confess"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1867.5,"endTime":1870.5,"body":"it. So people are like, Why do I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1870.5,"endTime":1873.1399999999999,"body":"confess it? It's already"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1870.5,"endTime":1873.1399999999999,"body":"forgiven, because, because it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1873.1399999999999,"endTime":1875.0,"body":"may be forgiven, but it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1873.1399999999999,"endTime":1875.0,"body":"mean it doesn't have"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1875.0,"endTime":1879.3799999999999,"body":"consequences. confessing it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1875.0,"endTime":1879.3799999999999,"body":"breaks free, the tyranny of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1879.3799999999999,"endTime":1883.31,"body":"Satan, telling us that God will"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1879.3799999999999,"endTime":1883.31,"body":"never forgive you for that. And"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1883.31,"endTime":1886.67,"body":"so that's where I think that the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1883.31,"endTime":1886.67,"body":"the Triumph the Christian life,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1886.79,"endTime":1889.85,"body":"it's like that's, that's where"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1886.79,"endTime":1889.85,"body":"the the, the line that gets"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1889.85,"endTime":1892.28,"body":"becomes blurred between Saint"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1889.85,"endTime":1892.28,"body":"saint and sinner."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1892.6399999999999,"endTime":1897.26,"body":"Yeah. So then"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1892.6399999999999,"endTime":1897.26,"body":"how do we structure the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1897.26,"endTime":1902.51,"body":"community of believers in a way"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1897.26,"endTime":1902.51,"body":"where confession can be a part"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1902.54,"endTime":1906.92,"body":"of, of what we do, and it's not"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1902.54,"endTime":1906.92,"body":"individual confession, but it's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1906.92,"endTime":1910.82,"body":"a confession of the personhood"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1906.92,"endTime":1910.82,"body":"that's connected to the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1910.82,"endTime":1911.45,"body":"community?"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1912.35,"endTime":1915.68,"body":"Yeah, I think that a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1912.35,"endTime":1915.68,"body":"it has to start with leadership."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1915.68,"endTime":1919.16,"body":"And so you know, I do a lot of,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1915.68,"endTime":1919.16,"body":"I do a lot of work for the Luis"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1919.16,"endTime":1922.8799999999999,"body":"Palau Association, and I do"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1919.16,"endTime":1922.8799999999999,"body":"their, I do what's called their,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1922.91,"endTime":1925.28,"body":"their renew their front end"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1922.91,"endTime":1925.28,"body":"festivals before they go in and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1925.28,"endTime":1928.16,"body":"do a festival there. I love"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1925.28,"endTime":1928.16,"body":"them, because they have such a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1928.16,"endTime":1930.47,"body":"commitment to working with the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1928.16,"endTime":1930.47,"body":"local church, they won't do it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1930.47,"endTime":1933.5,"body":"unless the local church has buy"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1930.47,"endTime":1933.5,"body":"it. But I'll go and speak to all"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1933.5,"endTime":1936.98,"body":"the pastors on the front end."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1933.5,"endTime":1936.98,"body":"And I really have a heart for"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1937.94,"endTime":1940.91,"body":"kind of explaining this"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1937.94,"endTime":1940.91,"body":"particular passion of mine,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1940.91,"endTime":1943.49,"body":"because I worked in churches"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1940.91,"endTime":1943.49,"body":"where the pastors were so"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1943.49,"endTime":1947.3,"body":"private, and I worked for I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1943.49,"endTime":1947.3,"body":"worked for several pastors that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1947.3,"endTime":1951.08,"body":"had moral failings. And so it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1947.3,"endTime":1951.08,"body":"was like that in to me, it was"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1951.08,"endTime":1954.05,"body":"just like this kind of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1951.08,"endTime":1954.05,"body":"connecting of the dots, like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1954.26,"endTime":1959.54,"body":"there's a pattern here. And the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1954.26,"endTime":1959.54,"body":"pattern is this like is, is that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1959.54,"endTime":1962.3899999999999,"body":"we actually have created"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1959.54,"endTime":1962.3899999999999,"body":"ladders, you know, we're the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1962.3899999999999,"endTime":1964.94,"body":"whole gospel is just to free"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1962.3899999999999,"endTime":1964.94,"body":"people from the tyranny of the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1964.94,"endTime":1969.53,"body":"ladders that the world is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1964.94,"endTime":1969.53,"body":"presenting, you know, to satisfy"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1969.56,"endTime":1972.05,"body":"you know, our longing for"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1969.56,"endTime":1972.05,"body":"wholeness. We get them in the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1972.05,"endTime":1975.26,"body":"church, and we tell them Jesus"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1972.05,"endTime":1975.26,"body":"is accepted or just as they are,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1975.56,"endTime":1977.69,"body":"but then we get them in, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1975.56,"endTime":1977.69,"body":"then we give them a new ladder"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1977.69,"endTime":1980.45,"body":"to climb that's actually more"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1977.69,"endTime":1980.45,"body":"exhausting, and more difficult,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1980.48,"endTime":1986.06,"body":"and not nearly as fun. Because"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1980.48,"endTime":1986.06,"body":"we forget that the golden"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1986.09,"endTime":1991.16,"body":"Christian life isn't arriving,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1986.09,"endTime":1991.16,"body":"it's snowing. And in, in so I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1991.16,"endTime":1993.74,"body":"think that we have to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1991.16,"endTime":1993.74,"body":"when you're actually in a real"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1993.74,"endTime":1996.59,"body":"relationship with someone, your"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1993.74,"endTime":1996.59,"body":"best relationships are the ones"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1996.59,"endTime":1999.53,"body":"that you're honest about your"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1996.59,"endTime":1999.53,"body":"brokenness. And so so I've"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1999.8,"endTime":2003.07,"body":"modeled that. I tried to model"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":1999.8,"endTime":2003.07,"body":"that from the, from the pulpit,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2003.31,"endTime":2006.1,"body":"we give space to it in our"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2003.31,"endTime":2006.1,"body":"worship experience. So when we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2006.1,"endTime":2010.48,"body":"have our, our worship and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2006.1,"endTime":2010.48,"body":"communion at the end, we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2010.57,"endTime":2013.03,"body":"encourage people every week come"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2010.57,"endTime":2013.03,"body":"forward, that our elders are"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2013.03,"endTime":2016.09,"body":"always up front prayer team, we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2013.03,"endTime":2016.09,"body":"will come we share our"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2016.09,"endTime":2019.81,"body":"brokenness with one another, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2016.09,"endTime":2019.81,"body":"bind and in doing that, with my"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2019.81,"endTime":2022.33,"body":"freedom, and we've been"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2019.81,"endTime":2022.33,"body":"encouraged that in our community"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2022.33,"endTime":2026.32,"body":"groups. And that's the that's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2022.33,"endTime":2026.32,"body":"the cause, like, what makes door"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2026.32,"endTime":2030.1299999999999,"body":"of hope, has always been a very"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2026.32,"endTime":2030.1299999999999,"body":"strong evangelistic community,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2030.49,"endTime":2034.57,"body":"is our evangelism is a flows out"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2030.49,"endTime":2034.57,"body":"of that idea that the whole"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2034.57,"endTime":2039.34,"body":"church together preaches cross."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2034.57,"endTime":2039.34,"body":"Can we do that by Dale? No,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2039.34,"endTime":2042.52,"body":"you're my disciples, by your"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2039.34,"endTime":2042.52,"body":"love for one another. Your care"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2042.52,"endTime":2045.79,"body":"for one another and hate on your"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2042.52,"endTime":2045.79,"body":"worst stinking day. Jesus is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2045.79,"endTime":2048.01,"body":"crazy about you. That's the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2045.79,"endTime":2048.01,"body":"thing. I tell the church every"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2048.01,"endTime":2050.6800000000003,"body":"week. And it's like, you're not"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2048.01,"endTime":2050.6800000000003,"body":"a bigger failure than God"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2050.6800000000003,"endTime":2053.17,"body":"already knows. You are. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2050.6800000000003,"endTime":2053.17,"body":"that's why the gospel is such"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2053.17,"endTime":2053.92,"body":"good news."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2056.5,"endTime":2058.9,"body":"Yeah, so what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2056.5,"endTime":2058.9,"body":"does that look like? If you're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2058.9,"endTime":2061.57,"body":"an evangelistic Church says"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2058.9,"endTime":2061.57,"body":"you're going in preach. They're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2061.57,"endTime":2066.52,"body":"saying, here's the cross of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2061.57,"endTime":2066.52,"body":"Jesus, especially in this, the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2066.55,"endTime":2070.39,"body":"post Christian area of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2066.55,"endTime":2070.39,"body":"Portland's I know that, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2070.39,"endTime":2074.02,"body":"know, I've had people on my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2070.39,"endTime":2074.02,"body":"staff that have gone to Portland"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2074.02,"endTime":2078.4900000000002,"body":"and say, it's really easy to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2074.02,"endTime":2078.4900000000002,"body":"talk about Jesus. In Portland,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2078.76,"endTime":2082.15,"body":"it's a little more difficult to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2078.76,"endTime":2082.15,"body":"talk about the church. But it's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2082.15,"endTime":2086.32,"body":"really easy to talk about Jesus."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2082.15,"endTime":2086.32,"body":"What does that look like then? I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2086.32,"endTime":2090.1,"body":"think, for a lot of people, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2086.32,"endTime":2090.1,"body":"I think, you know, Portland, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2090.1,"endTime":2093.55,"body":"think is a little bit ahead of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2090.1,"endTime":2093.55,"body":"the time than a lot of the rest"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2093.55,"endTime":2098.83,"body":"of the United States is in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2093.55,"endTime":2098.83,"body":"West. So what what does it look"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2098.83,"endTime":2103.84,"body":"like? How do we get to this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2098.83,"endTime":2103.84,"body":"place where we could be open"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2103.84,"endTime":2108.25,"body":"about our own brokenness, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2103.84,"endTime":2108.25,"body":"about our need for Jesus and the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2108.25,"endTime":2108.79,"body":"cross?"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2109.779,"endTime":2113.229,"body":"Yeah, well, I think"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2109.779,"endTime":2113.229,"body":"it's true. Portland is probably"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2113.229,"endTime":2118.119,"body":"the first pure, like, post"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2113.229,"endTime":2118.119,"body":"Christian city in the United"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2118.119,"endTime":2121.389,"body":"States like, and it because it's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2118.119,"endTime":2121.389,"body":"always been a bit of a wild"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2121.389,"endTime":2124.689,"body":"west. And it's funny, it was,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2121.389,"endTime":2124.689,"body":"you know, is one of the oldest"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2124.689,"endTime":2128.259,"body":"cities in the northwest. So it's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2124.689,"endTime":2128.259,"body":"it. There's churches everywhere"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2128.259,"endTime":2131.199,"body":"that were built, you know, and,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2128.259,"endTime":2131.199,"body":"and Portland added zone, you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2131.199,"endTime":2135.699,"body":"know, the, the Welsh Revival was"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2131.199,"endTime":2135.699,"body":"a global revival and, and it hit"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2135.699,"endTime":2139.629,"body":"Portland as well, that, that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2135.699,"endTime":2139.629,"body":"there was a there was a time"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2139.629,"endTime":2143.949,"body":"when every shop for like six"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2139.629,"endTime":2143.949,"body":"months in downtown was closing"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2143.949,"endTime":2149.529,"body":"down for prayer. Wow, like"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2143.949,"endTime":2149.529,"body":"around my teeth. 1908. But that,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2149.769,"endTime":2153.729,"body":"that revival, you know, like our"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2149.769,"endTime":2153.729,"body":"Bibles, they they come and go,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2154.5389999999998,"endTime":2157.929,"body":"and I think that Portland's are"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2154.5389999999998,"endTime":2157.929,"body":"always been a very spiritual so"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2157.929,"endTime":2162.339,"body":"unlike the, like a city like New"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2157.929,"endTime":2162.339,"body":"York, New York still has an"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2162.339,"endTime":2165.849,"body":"incredible foundation and both"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2162.339,"endTime":2165.849,"body":"Catholicism and Judaism like"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2165.849,"endTime":2169.059,"body":"there's, you know, you go to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2165.849,"endTime":2169.059,"body":"Times Square the two statues in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2169.149,"endTime":2173.439,"body":"Times Square the one of a famous"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2169.149,"endTime":2173.439,"body":"Jewish leader and the other"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2173.469,"endTime":2177.969,"body":"famous Catholic in Greece you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2173.469,"endTime":2177.969,"body":"know, and I think that Portland"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2177.999,"endTime":2182.079,"body":"is kind of the opposite of that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2177.999,"endTime":2182.079,"body":"it's its background is like, is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2182.2889999999998,"endTime":2187.749,"body":"very spiritual. But the coexist"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2182.2889999999998,"endTime":2187.749,"body":"sticker you know is dominant,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2187.779,"endTime":2191.319,"body":"you know, when the largest"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2187.779,"endTime":2191.319,"body":"lesbian population in the world."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2192.999,"endTime":2196.749,"body":"So, you know, the transgender"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2192.999,"endTime":2196.749,"body":"conversation here before I hit"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2196.749,"endTime":2200.049,"body":"anywhere else, even more so that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2196.749,"endTime":2200.049,"body":"I go to London every year and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2200.049,"endTime":2203.559,"body":"it's like, not even close to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2200.049,"endTime":2203.559,"body":"what you see in Portland and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2203.559,"endTime":2206.799,"body":"Portland's beyond the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2203.559,"endTime":2206.799,"body":"transitioning from guy to girl"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2206.799,"endTime":2210.009,"body":"or girl to guy. It's like, No,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2206.799,"endTime":2210.009,"body":"I'm, I mean, there's a whole"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2210.009,"endTime":2213.189,"body":"community here of people that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2210.009,"endTime":2213.189,"body":"are, you know, claimed to be"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2213.429,"endTime":2217.119,"body":"elves in wear prosthetic elf"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2213.429,"endTime":2217.119,"body":"ears, you know, and it's like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2217.179,"endTime":2221.109,"body":"that's the nature of a, of a of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2217.179,"endTime":2221.109,"body":"a world that says you are"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2221.109,"endTime":2225.129,"body":"whatever you think you are, in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2221.109,"endTime":2225.129,"body":"your interior identity is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2225.129,"endTime":2227.499,"body":"actually the most important"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2225.129,"endTime":2227.499,"body":"thing. So this where it makes"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2227.499,"endTime":2232.059,"body":"the gospel challenging people"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2227.499,"endTime":2232.059,"body":"are very open to the Gospel. But"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2232.509,"endTime":2235.329,"body":"when you This is why the cross"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2232.509,"endTime":2235.329,"body":"is bullish, its nose began"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2235.329,"endTime":2242.799,"body":"Cross. The Cross demands,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2235.329,"endTime":2242.799,"body":"identity be rethought. It's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2242.829,"endTime":2246.399,"body":"like, it's, you know, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2242.829,"endTime":2246.399,"body":"people going to bed I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2246.399,"endTime":2249.579,"body":"You're not if you're not a gay"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2246.399,"endTime":2249.579,"body":"Christian, is your identity"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2249.579,"endTime":2254.229,"body":"isn't your sexual preference,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2249.579,"endTime":2254.229,"body":"your identity as Jesus? Who"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2254.229,"endTime":2259.179,"body":"wants to embody your brokenness"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2254.229,"endTime":2259.179,"body":"wherever you are. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2259.779,"endTime":2262.839,"body":"but I think the same time"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2259.779,"endTime":2262.839,"body":"because people don't have a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2262.839,"endTime":2266.709,"body":"background, the Gospel, there is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2262.839,"endTime":2266.709,"body":"a willingness to talk about it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2266.709,"endTime":2270.519,"body":"far more than people assume."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2266.709,"endTime":2270.519,"body":"There isn't the hostility that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2270.519,"endTime":2275.259,"body":"you would think there's lots of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2270.519,"endTime":2275.259,"body":"hostility in the city. And right"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2275.259,"endTime":2278.979,"body":"now it's, we who live in the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2275.259,"endTime":2278.979,"body":"city of love our city are mainly"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2278.979,"endTime":2281.709,"body":"just hostile toward our"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2278.979,"endTime":2281.709,"body":"terrible, terrible city"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2281.709,"endTime":2287.259,"body":"government. Who is allowed"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2281.709,"endTime":2287.259,"body":"Portland to just be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2287.259,"endTime":2291.099,"body":"we once were Portlandia? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2287.259,"endTime":2291.099,"body":"no, now we're now we're Beyond"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2291.099,"endTime":2295.989,"body":"Thunderdome. And it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2291.099,"endTime":2295.989,"body":"it's, you know, I mean, that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2296.019,"endTime":2299.589,"body":"they get shoot in door pope is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2296.019,"endTime":2299.589,"body":"really trying to work toward"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2299.589,"endTime":2302.259,"body":"that, too. It's like, what does"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2299.589,"endTime":2302.259,"body":"it look like to be in a city"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2302.259,"endTime":2306.429,"body":"where we become a mecca for"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2302.259,"endTime":2306.429,"body":"homelessness, because it's a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2306.429,"endTime":2310.059,"body":"place where you can do math and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2306.429,"endTime":2310.059,"body":"fentanyl and not be prosecuted."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2310.719,"endTime":2312.909,"body":"And we'll give you a will give"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2310.719,"endTime":2312.909,"body":"you a free tent and feed you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2312.909,"endTime":2316.479,"body":"four meals a day. So it's like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2312.909,"endTime":2316.479,"body":"it's forcing us to even rethink,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2316.479,"endTime":2319.689,"body":"like, classic Christian vision"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2316.479,"endTime":2319.689,"body":"is that we should be the poor,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2320.709,"endTime":2324.249,"body":"or feed the hungry? Well, what"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2320.709,"endTime":2324.249,"body":"if feeding them actually is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2324.249,"endTime":2326.799,"body":"helping them kill themselves"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2324.249,"endTime":2326.799,"body":"that no, like, what do you do"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2326.799,"endTime":2330.609,"body":"that? So we're having to rethink"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2326.799,"endTime":2330.609,"body":"and I think that the city is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2330.609,"endTime":2334.419,"body":"always going to be because of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2330.609,"endTime":2334.419,"body":"the uniqueness of being a post"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2334.419,"endTime":2338.139,"body":"Christian city. And being a very"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2334.419,"endTime":2338.139,"body":"progressive city. It's an"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2338.139,"endTime":2341.469,"body":"interesting place to like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2338.139,"endTime":2341.469,"body":"explore how does the gospel"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2341.469,"endTime":2344.259,"body":"actually play itself out in that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2341.469,"endTime":2344.259,"body":"particular context that we're"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2344.259,"endTime":2347.679,"body":"in, and I'm committed I that's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2344.259,"endTime":2347.679,"body":"what makes me even more"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2347.679,"endTime":2351.369,"body":"convinced that all the all the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2347.679,"endTime":2351.369,"body":"attempts to be about social"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2351.369,"endTime":2356.169,"body":"justice in the past to become"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2351.369,"endTime":2356.169,"body":"irrelevant. And the expense of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2356.169,"endTime":2359.799,"body":"the gospel is proven to be"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2356.169,"endTime":2359.799,"body":"fatal, actually, for the church"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2359.799,"endTime":2365.949,"body":"here. And what I'd much rather"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2359.799,"endTime":2365.949,"body":"see is, is gospel centered"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2366.489,"endTime":2371.409,"body":"witness that then leads to care"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2366.489,"endTime":2371.409,"body":"and concern, like we want we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2371.409,"endTime":2374.559,"body":"want to preach the gospel and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2371.409,"endTime":2374.559,"body":"word and deed. Yeah, but often"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2374.559,"endTime":2378.429,"body":"deed has as been a cover up for"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2374.559,"endTime":2378.429,"body":"the fact that we don't actually"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2378.429,"endTime":2382.389,"body":"want to talk about the offense"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2378.429,"endTime":2382.389,"body":"of the gospel. And so So I think"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2382.389,"endTime":2387.249,"body":"that yeah, talking about Jesus"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2382.389,"endTime":2387.249,"body":"is one thing, talking about you,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2387.669,"endTime":2392.619,"body":"your your sinful person who"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2387.669,"endTime":2392.619,"body":"needs who needs forgiveness, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2392.619,"endTime":2397.089,"body":"redemption. And you can't save"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2392.619,"endTime":2397.089,"body":"yourself, and all the all the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2397.089,"endTime":2399.729,"body":"things you're pursuing and all"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2397.089,"endTime":2399.729,"body":"the ways you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2399.729,"endTime":2403.179,"body":"identify yourself to find"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2399.729,"endTime":2403.179,"body":"meaning and life is not going to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2403.179,"endTime":2406.089,"body":"be found in anything until you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2403.179,"endTime":2406.089,"body":"put your trust in Him. And"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2406.089,"endTime":2409.419,"body":"that's, that that's where you're"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2406.089,"endTime":2409.419,"body":"going to get the pushback. And"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2409.419,"endTime":2412.479,"body":"so the community has job, but we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2409.419,"endTime":2412.479,"body":"I always ask the church and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2412.479,"endTime":2415.809,"body":"like, we can't make people"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2412.479,"endTime":2415.809,"body":"believe what we believe. But"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2416.079,"endTime":2418.329,"body":"they should at least believe"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2416.079,"endTime":2418.329,"body":"that we believe what we're"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2418.329,"endTime":2421.839,"body":"telling them. And they should"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2418.329,"endTime":2421.839,"body":"actually see something in us"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2421.839,"endTime":2426.519,"body":"that they would want. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2421.839,"endTime":2426.519,"body":"like, is the church a place"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2426.519,"endTime":2430.419,"body":"where you would want to invite a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2426.519,"endTime":2430.419,"body":"non believing branch. And so"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2430.449,"endTime":2433.659,"body":"Dora Pope has really worked hard"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2430.449,"endTime":2433.659,"body":"to create, I would say, create"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2494.639,"endTime":2497.849,"body":"the most beautiful,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2494.639,"endTime":2497.849,"body":"uncomfortable space possible to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2497.849,"endTime":2499.889,"body":"hear the most uncomfortable"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2497.849,"endTime":2499.889,"body":"message possible."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2501.119,"endTime":2503.759,"body":"That's good."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2501.119,"endTime":2503.759,"body":"That's good. It is the most"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2503.759,"endTime":2507.329,"body":"uncomfortable message. But it's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2503.759,"endTime":2507.329,"body":"good news. That uncomfortable"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2507.329,"endTime":2510.809,"body":"message is really good news. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2507.329,"endTime":2510.809,"body":"one of the things that's been"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2511.139,"endTime":2515.069,"body":"struck me a lot just talking to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2511.139,"endTime":2515.069,"body":"people lately, is the word"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2515.069,"endTime":2518.699,"body":"witness. You know, talk about"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2515.069,"endTime":2518.699,"body":"wear away witness to the lamb"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2518.879,"endTime":2523.349,"body":"that were witness to this the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2518.879,"endTime":2523.349,"body":"Suffering Servant Jesus. That's,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2523.529,"endTime":2525.749,"body":"you know, I, you know, I come"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2523.529,"endTime":2525.749,"body":"from a lot of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2525.779,"endTime":2529.799,"body":"missional theology, I lead a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2525.779,"endTime":2529.799,"body":"missions organization, where we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2529.799,"endTime":2533.879,"body":"like to talk about all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2529.799,"endTime":2533.879,"body":"different things. But this this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2533.879,"endTime":2538.109,"body":"witness thing that's happening"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2533.879,"endTime":2538.109,"body":"in Revelation, it's what Jesus"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2538.109,"endTime":2541.379,"body":"said, You will be my witnesses."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2538.109,"endTime":2541.379,"body":"Right. And, you know, when He"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2541.379,"endTime":2545.759,"body":"ascended back, what is it about"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2541.379,"endTime":2545.759,"body":"being a witness to the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2545.759,"endTime":2550.409,"body":"foolishness of the cross? How,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2545.759,"endTime":2550.409,"body":"how is witness so important?"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2551.34,"endTime":2554.4,"body":"Yeah, well, I think"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2551.34,"endTime":2554.4,"body":"that that's the, that's what the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2554.4,"endTime":2558.69,"body":"world does is that it? It's, you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2554.4,"endTime":2558.69,"body":"know, it's a witness to whatever"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2558.69,"endTime":2561.54,"body":"it is, it's selling, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2558.69,"endTime":2561.54,"body":"it's like, the new priests and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2561.54,"endTime":2565.47,"body":"priestesses of the modern age,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2561.54,"endTime":2565.47,"body":"are the influencers of our"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2565.47,"endTime":2569.52,"body":"social media. I mean, this,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2565.47,"endTime":2569.52,"body":"they're the, they're the in and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2569.52,"endTime":2572.37,"body":"they are witness, they're, you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2569.52,"endTime":2572.37,"body":"know, they are, they're selling"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2572.37,"endTime":2576.3,"body":"their wares. And they're called,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2572.37,"endTime":2576.3,"body":"and they're calling people to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2576.3,"endTime":2580.17,"body":"worship, you know, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2576.3,"endTime":2580.17,"body":"fitness or health or body"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2580.17,"endTime":2585.42,"body":"positivity, or, you know, or,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2580.17,"endTime":2585.42,"body":"you know, justice issues,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2585.6,"endTime":2588.69,"body":"there's, there's a million, the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2585.6,"endTime":2588.69,"body":"calls, and it's, it's hyper"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2588.75,"endTime":2594.36,"body":"spiritual. And it's, it's very,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2588.75,"endTime":2594.36,"body":"it's very religious. And so for"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2594.36,"endTime":2598.05,"body":"us, it's like, our witness is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2594.36,"endTime":2598.05,"body":"just that it's like, you will"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2598.08,"endTime":2601.98,"body":"talk about head you will help,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2598.08,"endTime":2601.98,"body":"and you will talk about whatever"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2601.98,"endTime":2606.42,"body":"it is you love. And so, I have"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2601.98,"endTime":2606.42,"body":"put a big emphasis on witnesses."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2606.42,"endTime":2608.88,"body":"Well, because witnesses, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2606.42,"endTime":2608.88,"body":"it's a powerful, it's a freeing"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2608.88,"endTime":2612.45,"body":"thing. Yeah, like, it's a scary"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2608.88,"endTime":2612.45,"body":"thing. I always call pastors, a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2612.45,"endTime":2615.48,"body":"lot of pastors don't do altar"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2612.45,"endTime":2615.48,"body":"calls anymore, and that some of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2615.48,"endTime":2617.85,"body":"them will claim because it's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2615.48,"endTime":2617.85,"body":"like theological conviction."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2617.85,"endTime":2620.34,"body":"They don't want to be"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2617.85,"endTime":2620.34,"body":"emotionally manipulative. But I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2620.34,"endTime":2623.04,"body":"think bogus for the most part, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2620.34,"endTime":2623.04,"body":"think it's usually it's, I don't"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2623.04,"endTime":2626.97,"body":"want to be humiliated. No, in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2623.04,"endTime":2626.97,"body":"response, you know, I don't want"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2626.97,"endTime":2630.21,"body":"to be confronted with my own"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2626.97,"endTime":2630.21,"body":"impotence or the lack of power."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2630.9,"endTime":2635.52,"body":"And I think that what I always"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2630.9,"endTime":2635.52,"body":"tell people is like, if you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2635.52,"endTime":2639.15,"body":"don't save anybody, like yeah,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2635.52,"endTime":2639.15,"body":"we're just called, like, Jesus"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2639.15,"endTime":2641.52,"body":"said it by be lifted up, I'll"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2639.15,"endTime":2641.52,"body":"drop people to myself, but we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2641.52,"endTime":2644.76,"body":"don't we forget is that not"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2641.52,"endTime":2644.76,"body":"everyone who's dropped every"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2644.82,"endTime":2648.03,"body":"everyone made the drop, but not"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2644.82,"endTime":2648.03,"body":"everyone responds the same. And"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2648.03,"endTime":2652.59,"body":"that, and he's also he draws but"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2648.03,"endTime":2652.59,"body":"he's also the sword that divides"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2652.59,"endTime":2656.37,"body":"in, like, our responsibility is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2652.59,"endTime":2656.37,"body":"just to be faithful to lift up"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2656.73,"endTime":2661.17,"body":"and lift up that same, the same"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2656.73,"endTime":2661.17,"body":"message of I have met Jesus,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2661.2,"endTime":2664.92,"body":"come, come and meet the one."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2661.2,"endTime":2664.92,"body":"Come and see the one who's,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2665.07,"endTime":2668.49,"body":"yeah, who's revealed everything"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2665.07,"endTime":2668.49,"body":"that that makes, like make"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2668.49,"endTime":2671.67,"body":"sense. And so that's where I've"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2668.49,"endTime":2671.67,"body":"always encouraged the church"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2671.67,"endTime":2674.37,"body":"from the beginning, is like, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2671.67,"endTime":2674.37,"body":"don't want to be a church that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2674.37,"endTime":2679.56,"body":"grows by transfer growth. That's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2674.37,"endTime":2679.56,"body":"not a win. shifting around the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2679.77,"endTime":2682.89,"body":"the people that are already in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2679.77,"endTime":2682.89,"body":"the club, as you know, we exist"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2682.89,"endTime":2686.01,"body":"for the good of those outside"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2682.89,"endTime":2686.01,"body":"our walls. And, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2686.28,"endTime":2689.82,"body":"Portland, that when I started"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2686.28,"endTime":2689.82,"body":"door book was, was the city that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2689.85,"endTime":2693.81,"body":"the churches were private in the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2689.85,"endTime":2693.81,"body":"city proper, which is what gives"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2693.81,"endTime":2699.78,"body":"Portland its reputation is were"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2693.81,"endTime":2699.78,"body":"filled primarily with, it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2699.78,"endTime":2702.78,"body":"a fully liberal church, that it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2699.78,"endTime":2702.78,"body":"completely abandoned the gospel,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2703.11,"endTime":2705.69,"body":"their their churches, the only"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2703.11,"endTime":2705.69,"body":"people that were coming were"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2705.69,"endTime":2708.72,"body":"people that don't even live in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2705.69,"endTime":2708.72,"body":"the city. And so for us early"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2708.72,"endTime":2711.87,"body":"on, it was like, what are the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2708.72,"endTime":2711.87,"body":"practical ways, simple ways that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2711.87,"endTime":2714.33,"body":"we can actually be witnesses?"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2711.87,"endTime":2714.33,"body":"Well, part of it was just"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2714.33,"endTime":2717.96,"body":"getting Christians to like, come"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2714.33,"endTime":2717.96,"body":"out of the closet. So you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2717.96,"endTime":2720.6,"body":"when I have a barista, a young"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2717.96,"endTime":2720.6,"body":"20 something year old barista"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2720.6,"endTime":2723.45,"body":"come, like, I just found out my"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2720.6,"endTime":2723.45,"body":"coworker, who I've worked with"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2723.45,"endTime":2726.33,"body":"for two years as a Christian."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2723.45,"endTime":2726.33,"body":"And they're so excited. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2726.33,"endTime":2730.68,"body":"like, You shouldn't be excited"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2726.33,"endTime":2730.68,"body":"about that. Let's say that you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2730.68,"endTime":2733.89,"body":"guys have worked really years."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2730.68,"endTime":2733.89,"body":"Just now discovering that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2733.89,"endTime":2736.71,"body":"you're, that just tells me that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2733.89,"endTime":2736.71,"body":"you you don't think it's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2736.71,"endTime":2739.62,"body":"appropriate. You think it's a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2736.71,"endTime":2739.62,"body":"private matter? That I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2739.89,"endTime":2744.87,"body":"I'm like, it's it's personal,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2739.89,"endTime":2744.87,"body":"but it's never private. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2744.87,"endTime":2747.51,"body":"like, talk about it because you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2744.87,"endTime":2747.51,"body":"love it. So we've encrypted will"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2747.51,"endTime":2750.75,"body":"bring their Bibles, pop shops,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2747.51,"endTime":2750.75,"body":"start living out the Christian"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2750.75,"endTime":2754.26,"body":"life, naturally. The"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2750.75,"endTime":2754.26,"body":"supernatural life should be"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2754.26,"endTime":2757.71,"body":"lived out naturally. Just live"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2754.26,"endTime":2757.71,"body":"it out. Would I shit when I tell"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2757.71,"endTime":2760.86,"body":"you in secret, mumbling from the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2757.71,"endTime":2760.86,"body":"rooftop. I'm like, it's not"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2760.86,"endTime":2763.47,"body":"going out and yelling at the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2760.86,"endTime":2763.47,"body":"pig. And you open your Bible in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2763.47,"endTime":2766.5,"body":"a coffee shop in Portland, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2763.47,"endTime":2766.5,"body":"sit there and read it. I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2766.5,"endTime":2769.11,"body":"guarantee people will ask you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2766.5,"endTime":2769.11,"body":"what you're doing. You know?"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2769.14,"endTime":2772.95,"body":"Yeah. So and that really worked."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2769.14,"endTime":2772.95,"body":"And then it was just encouraging"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2772.95,"endTime":2776.19,"body":"people like, Hey, you don't need"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2772.95,"endTime":2776.19,"body":"to be an evangelist. And like, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2776.19,"endTime":2779.04,"body":"promise you, if you invite"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2776.19,"endTime":2779.04,"body":"people to church, I promise I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2779.04,"endTime":2782.07,"body":"will faithfully preach that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2779.04,"endTime":2782.07,"body":"gospel every week. But you need"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2782.07,"endTime":2784.62,"body":"to be able, you need to be"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2782.07,"endTime":2784.62,"body":"learning and growing so that you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2784.62,"endTime":2787.92,"body":"can unpack that with him after"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2784.62,"endTime":2787.92,"body":"church. But yeah, let's create"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2787.92,"endTime":2792.12,"body":"an invitational come and see"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2787.92,"endTime":2792.12,"body":"model door Mo. And it wasn't a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2792.12,"endTime":2795.72,"body":"secret sensitive model, either."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2792.12,"endTime":2795.72,"body":"It was the idea of we I like"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2795.72,"endTime":2798.39,"body":"when I prepare sermons, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2795.72,"endTime":2798.39,"body":"prepare sermons for God's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2798.39,"endTime":2801.75,"body":"people. Yeah, but the gospel has"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2798.39,"endTime":2801.75,"body":"to be informing it and has to be"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2801.75,"endTime":2805.08,"body":"at the center of it. And what I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2801.75,"endTime":2805.08,"body":"found is that people would come"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2805.23,"endTime":2807.39,"body":"and they're curious, they come"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2805.23,"endTime":2807.39,"body":"for weeks, and they would talk"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2807.39,"endTime":2810.87,"body":"about the gospel and it actually"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2807.39,"endTime":2810.87,"body":"led community to becoming more"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2810.87,"endTime":2813.09,"body":"evangelistic in the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2810.87,"endTime":2813.09,"body":"conversations that were"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2813.09,"endTime":2814.68,"body":"happening around it. So"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2814.889,"endTime":2817.139,"body":"yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2814.889,"endTime":2817.139,"body":"where the good that's really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2817.139,"endTime":2819.959,"body":"good. I have a couple of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2817.139,"endTime":2819.959,"body":"questions at the end one, if you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2819.959,"endTime":2822.299,"body":"go back to your 21 year old"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2819.959,"endTime":2822.299,"body":"self, what advice would you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2822.299,"endTime":2822.629,"body":"give?"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2825.719,"endTime":2834.779,"body":"Don't do what I did."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2825.719,"endTime":2834.779,"body":"Stay away from hard drugs. In"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2835.079,"endTime":2841.319,"body":"him don't believe anything that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2835.079,"endTime":2841.319,"body":"you believe that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2841.319,"endTime":2846.329,"body":"yeah, that was if I was to go, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2841.319,"endTime":2846.329,"body":"mean, door Pope's early growth"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2846.329,"endTime":2850.499,"body":"is primarily 18 to 24 year olds."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2846.329,"endTime":2850.499,"body":"So the first five years I, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2850.499,"endTime":2856.379,"body":"think I've married 75 couples."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2850.499,"endTime":2856.379,"body":"And so I think that that was the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2856.379,"endTime":2860.399,"body":"coolest thing was to be able,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2856.379,"endTime":2860.399,"body":"this is why the confessional"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2860.429,"endTime":2863.639,"body":"ethic is what helped me develop"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2860.429,"endTime":2863.639,"body":"the confessional he was I wanted"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2864.059,"endTime":2866.669,"body":"to give people with, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2864.059,"endTime":2866.669,"body":"that's what the Bible is, it's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2866.669,"endTime":2870.629,"body":"like, we don't have the story of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2866.669,"endTime":2870.629,"body":"David's adultery, so that we can"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2870.629,"endTime":2874.379,"body":"feel good about adultery is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2870.629,"endTime":2874.379,"body":"actually we could actually learn"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2874.379,"endTime":2879.239,"body":"from his mistake and not make"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2874.379,"endTime":2879.239,"body":"that mistake. And so, so I often"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2879.239,"endTime":2884.639,"body":"would discuss my own stupidity"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2879.239,"endTime":2884.639,"body":"of my early 20s, which was so,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2884.969,"endTime":2888.659,"body":"so self absorbed. And so I think"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2884.969,"endTime":2888.659,"body":"the biggest advice I give people"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2888.659,"endTime":2892.469,"body":"is like, the, the world you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2888.659,"endTime":2892.469,"body":"know, is Chesterton's advice,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2892.469,"endTime":2896.549,"body":"how much larger would the world"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2892.469,"endTime":2896.549,"body":"be if you were smaller? Now and,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2896.909,"endTime":2901.229,"body":"and I see a lot of kids with a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2896.909,"endTime":2901.229,"body":"lot of despair and a lot of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2901.319,"endTime":2906.779,"body":"angst, anxiety, my I have a 21"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2901.319,"endTime":2906.779,"body":"year old son. Yeah. And that 17"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2906.779,"endTime":2910.589,"body":"year old daughter, and I in, in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2906.779,"endTime":2910.589,"body":"fact, the joy of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2911.189,"endTime":2913.409,"body":"we've always been in the house"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2911.189,"endTime":2913.409,"body":"and all their friends who have"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2913.409,"endTime":2916.769,"body":"come to and our thing is ruled"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2913.409,"endTime":2916.769,"body":"the homeless grace, like, we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2916.769,"endTime":2919.739,"body":"don't want to, we can't expect"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2916.769,"endTime":2919.739,"body":"Henry and Hattie to be"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2919.739,"endTime":2921.839,"body":"Christians, because their"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2919.739,"endTime":2921.839,"body":"parents are Christians, like we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2921.839,"endTime":2926.159,"body":"have to actually just live out"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2921.839,"endTime":2926.159,"body":"the Gospel in a way that that in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2926.159,"endTime":2929.669,"body":"trust that they'll, that they're"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2926.159,"endTime":2929.669,"body":"going to, they're, they're going"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2929.669,"endTime":2933.299,"body":"to have seen something"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2929.669,"endTime":2933.299,"body":"compelling, which is even our"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2933.479,"endTime":2936.359,"body":"our brokenness, the quickness of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2933.479,"endTime":2936.359,"body":"mom and dad to say, hey, we made"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2936.359,"endTime":2940.439,"body":"a mistake, by the I got mad, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2936.359,"endTime":2940.439,"body":"shouldn't have, like, Never, not"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2940.439,"endTime":2943.199,"body":"pretending like I had all my"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2940.439,"endTime":2943.199,"body":"stuff together. But also"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2943.199,"endTime":2945.959,"body":"pointing in, like, the one thing"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2943.199,"endTime":2945.959,"body":"that he can't get away from is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2945.959,"endTime":2949.529,"body":"that we have an anchor that has"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2945.959,"endTime":2949.529,"body":"helped us through, you know,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2949.619,"endTime":2952.049,"body":"trials. And so that's the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2949.619,"endTime":2952.049,"body":"question I always posed, the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2952.049,"endTime":2954.749,"body":"young people is like, whatever"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2952.049,"endTime":2954.749,"body":"it is, that you're building your"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2954.749,"endTime":2959.249,"body":"life upon, like me when I was"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2954.749,"endTime":2959.249,"body":"21, it's like, everything for me"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2959.249,"endTime":2963.179,"body":"was I discovered as an invisible"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2959.249,"endTime":2963.179,"body":"kid that came up in a broken"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2963.179,"endTime":2966.569,"body":"family, and was horribly picked"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2963.179,"endTime":2966.569,"body":"on and bullied to my whole life,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2966.869,"endTime":2970.199,"body":"like dancing and singing and,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2966.869,"endTime":2970.199,"body":"you know, rural America where,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2970.499,"endTime":2975.419,"body":"you know, sports were reigned"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2970.499,"endTime":2975.419,"body":"supreme. And, you know, when I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2975.419,"endTime":2978.689,"body":"discovered my singing voice, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2975.419,"endTime":2978.689,"body":"people cared about it, it was"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2978.689,"endTime":2984.509,"body":"like, I all my value, all my"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2978.689,"endTime":2984.509,"body":"hope was in, it was in making it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2984.509,"endTime":2988.589,"body":"in music, because that's where I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2984.509,"endTime":2988.589,"body":"found meaning was my was, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2988.589,"endTime":2993.029,"body":"thought, acknowledgement, but it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2988.589,"endTime":2993.029,"body":"but the for the forgetfulness is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2993.029,"endTime":2996.569,"body":"that is that there's always"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2993.029,"endTime":2996.569,"body":"going to be someone better, like"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2996.569,"endTime":2999.899,"body":"the moment, your pursuit is to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2996.569,"endTime":2999.899,"body":"be the best, which is was my"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2999.899,"endTime":3003.589,"body":"pursuit. It's like, I was"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":2999.899,"endTime":3003.589,"body":"setting myself up for ultimate"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3003.589,"endTime":3006.259,"body":"heartbreak because of my"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3003.589,"endTime":3006.259,"body":"foundation was not anything that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3006.259,"endTime":3008.839,"body":"was lasting. And so that's what"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3006.259,"endTime":3008.839,"body":"I always encourage people is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3008.839,"endTime":3012.619,"body":"like, like, pursue those things."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3008.839,"endTime":3012.619,"body":"None of those things are bad"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3012.619,"endTime":3015.529,"body":"things, writing songs, not being"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3012.619,"endTime":3015.529,"body":"a musician, being an actor, do"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3015.559,"endTime":3020.119,"body":"whatever it is that you do. It's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3015.559,"endTime":3020.119,"body":"like, find, get your affections,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3020.119,"endTime":3023.179,"body":"right. So for me, it's like what"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3020.119,"endTime":3023.179,"body":"is what's the anchor the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3023.239,"endTime":3026.839,"body":"foundation by which you can then"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3023.239,"endTime":3026.839,"body":"and then like, when Jesus is the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3026.839,"endTime":3029.299,"body":"anchor in the center, and you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3026.839,"endTime":3029.299,"body":"don't have to take yourself or"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3029.299,"endTime":3032.989,"body":"the world that seriously, but"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3029.299,"endTime":3032.989,"body":"you do have to take him in grace"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3032.989,"endTime":3035.809,"body":"really? Seriously. That's it. So"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3037.07,"endTime":3039.11,"body":"that's great."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3037.07,"endTime":3039.11,"body":"Anything that you've been"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3039.17,"endTime":3043.16,"body":"reading, watching or listening"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3039.17,"endTime":3043.16,"body":"to lately, you could recommend?"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3044.599,"endTime":3049.729,"body":"Yeah, well, I, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3044.599,"endTime":3049.729,"body":"have the last last few years I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3049.729,"endTime":3055.399,"body":"went on a major that you kind of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3049.729,"endTime":3055.399,"body":"thinkers that I dug deep into"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3055.399,"endTime":3059.029,"body":"and kind of read. I've read"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3055.399,"endTime":3059.029,"body":"everything by Jacque LWL, one of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3059.029,"endTime":3065.509,"body":"the law was, was another French"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3059.029,"endTime":3065.509,"body":"philosopher churchmen who wrote"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3065.509,"endTime":3067.999,"body":"a book called The technological"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3065.509,"endTime":3067.999,"body":"age, which is probably"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3067.999,"endTime":3072.619,"body":"considered his masterpiece. But"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3067.999,"endTime":3072.619,"body":"there's a book by him, that's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3072.649,"endTime":3075.349,"body":"kind of he's a, he's a very"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3072.649,"endTime":3075.349,"body":"strong believer, part of the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3075.379,"endTime":3080.629,"body":"French Reformed Church, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3075.379,"endTime":3080.629,"body":"definitely a profound thinker,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3080.899,"endTime":3085.759,"body":"and had unbelievable insight"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3080.899,"endTime":3085.759,"body":"into the impacts of, of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3085.789,"endTime":3089.479,"body":"technological advances and the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3085.789,"endTime":3089.479,"body":"reduction of the human"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3089.509,"endTime":3096.589,"body":"experience into into means into"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3089.509,"endTime":3096.589,"body":"profit and the reduction of the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3096.589,"endTime":3102.739,"body":"human experience and the loss,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3096.589,"endTime":3102.739,"body":"the loss of the sacred, and in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3103.219,"endTime":3106.879,"body":"as we replace it with the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3103.219,"endTime":3106.879,"body":"secular, he is very helpful, but"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3106.879,"endTime":3111.859,"body":"he wrote a book called present"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3106.879,"endTime":3111.859,"body":"Christian presence in the modern"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3111.859,"endTime":3117.379,"body":"world, which he wrote in 1948."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3111.859,"endTime":3117.379,"body":"It's on whip and stock and it is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3117.379,"endTime":3121.549,"body":"a profound. It's actually the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3117.379,"endTime":3121.549,"body":"most digestible of his works."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3121.759,"endTime":3125.899,"body":"And it's kind of his theological"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3121.759,"endTime":3125.899,"body":"grid. And it's so helpful. And"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3125.899,"endTime":3128.929,"body":"his well being is that the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3125.899,"endTime":3128.929,"body":"primary responsibility of the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3128.929,"endTime":3134.449,"body":"church is to be a witness, and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3128.929,"endTime":3134.449,"body":"uses salt and light as the, as"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3134.449,"endTime":3138.469,"body":"the two examples of what the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3134.449,"endTime":3138.469,"body":"church has to be. And then even"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3138.499,"endTime":3143.449,"body":"and the picture of the churches,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3138.499,"endTime":3143.449,"body":"as sheep. And he Nihilo he says,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3143.539,"endTime":3148.279,"body":"he was at in a, in an Age of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3143.539,"endTime":3148.279,"body":"Spiritual dominating. He's like,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3148.369,"endTime":3151.729,"body":"the church cannot afford to be"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3148.369,"endTime":3151.729,"body":"spiritual dominators everybody"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3151.729,"endTime":3154.399,"body":"wants to be the wolf. But we"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3151.729,"endTime":3154.399,"body":"must continue to be the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3154.399,"endTime":3158.089,"body":"sacrificial sheep, we must point"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3154.399,"endTime":3158.089,"body":"the world to the real lamb slain"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3158.089,"endTime":3160.759,"body":"before the foundation the world"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3158.089,"endTime":3160.759,"body":"by allowing our lives to be"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3160.759,"endTime":3164.269,"body":"poured out for others. And I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3160.759,"endTime":3164.269,"body":"just found it very challenging"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3164.269,"endTime":3169.039,"body":"graveyard. I love Rene Girard. I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3164.269,"endTime":3169.039,"body":"just actually finished, I think"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3169.039,"endTime":3173.989,"body":"I've read all of his major works"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3169.039,"endTime":3173.989,"body":"now. And so I just wrapped up"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3173.989,"endTime":3178.489,"body":"with that. I saw Satan fall like"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3173.989,"endTime":3178.489,"body":"lightning, which is a kind of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3179.269,"endTime":3182.809,"body":"kind of the fruition of his"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3179.269,"endTime":3182.809,"body":"life. Now in pursuit of mimetic"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3182.809,"endTime":3186.349,"body":"rivalry, which really helpful."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3182.809,"endTime":3186.349,"body":"And then a book that I highly"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3186.349,"endTime":3192.319,"body":"recommend is Carl Truman's book"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3186.349,"endTime":3192.319,"body":"that came out in 2020. My buddy,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3192.319,"endTime":3195.139,"body":"Tim Mackey, the founder of the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3192.319,"endTime":3195.139,"body":"Bible project, he used to be a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3195.139,"endTime":3197.659,"body":"preacher Doorbot said it was one"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3195.139,"endTime":3197.659,"body":"of the most important books he"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3197.659,"endTime":3202.699,"body":"read the last few years. 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And it is a, it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3219.889,"endTime":3224.899,"body":"is a really well written, very"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3224.899,"endTime":3228.949,"body":"thoughtful, and not it's not,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3224.899,"endTime":3228.949,"body":"he's British. So it's not like"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3228.979,"endTime":3231.979,"body":"it doesn't have that, like"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3228.979,"endTime":3231.979,"body":"American political edge. It's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3232.009,"endTime":3235.429,"body":"They are more interested in it,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3232.009,"endTime":3235.429,"body":"just like, how did meet, how"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3235.429,"endTime":3241.969,"body":"did, how did philosophy and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3235.429,"endTime":3241.969,"body":"science and you know, just the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3241.969,"endTime":3246.469,"body":"modern age bring us to this"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3241.969,"endTime":3246.469,"body":"point. And it is, he isn't given"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3246.469,"endTime":3248.779,"body":"a lot of answers, he just wants"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3246.469,"endTime":3248.779,"body":"to help you understand where"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3248.779,"endTime":3252.079,"body":"we're at. And so you can be a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3248.779,"endTime":3252.079,"body":"little discouraged by it. But"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3252.079,"endTime":3255.169,"body":"it's also very helpful to be"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3252.079,"endTime":3255.169,"body":"able to read through something"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3255.169,"endTime":3258.829,"body":"like that, without it being"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3255.169,"endTime":3258.829,"body":"vitriolic. And so I really got"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3258.829,"endTime":3259.639,"body":"him very helpful."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3260.09,"endTime":3262.46,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3260.09,"endTime":3262.46,"body":"And definitely check those out."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3262.76,"endTime":3266.69,"body":"And so how can people connect"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3262.76,"endTime":3266.69,"body":"with you and find your book"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3266.69,"endTime":3269.93,"body":"suddenly toward eternity, which"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3266.69,"endTime":3269.93,"body":"is fantastic. And I, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3269.96,"endTime":3272.39,"body":"what I love about this book as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3269.96,"endTime":3272.39,"body":"it goes through the seven"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3272.39,"endTime":3276.83,"body":"sayings of Jesus on the cross,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3272.39,"endTime":3276.83,"body":"and we're diving deep into the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3276.83,"endTime":3279.74,"body":"cross and the foolishness of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3276.83,"endTime":3279.74,"body":"cross. We're contrasting that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3279.74,"endTime":3283.76,"body":"from ladder theology, of trying"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3279.74,"endTime":3283.76,"body":"to work our way up. But also you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3283.76,"endTime":3287.42,"body":"give little vignettes of your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3283.76,"endTime":3287.42,"body":"life in the midst of it, and how"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3287.42,"endTime":3292.82,"body":"the the cross actually affected"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3287.42,"endTime":3292.82,"body":"your, your own life. And in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3292.82,"endTime":3295.64,"body":"walking through, and I really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3292.82,"endTime":3295.64,"body":"loved those. And I thought that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3295.67,"endTime":3300.92,"body":"it brought it into a place of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3295.67,"endTime":3300.92,"body":"reality. And to ground it,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3300.95,"endTime":3306.2,"body":"really, and the story of you and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3300.95,"endTime":3306.2,"body":"your father was really, it was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3306.2,"endTime":3309.32,"body":"beautiful to for you to bury"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3306.2,"endTime":3309.32,"body":"your own brokenness in the midst"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3309.32,"endTime":3312.41,"body":"of it as well. And it was really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3309.32,"endTime":3312.41,"body":"helpful to be able to see that."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3312.41,"endTime":3315.5,"body":"So I really enjoyed it. And I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3312.41,"endTime":3315.5,"body":"want people to check it out. How"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3315.5,"endTime":3316.91,"body":"can people find it?"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3317.989,"endTime":3320.929,"body":"Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3317.989,"endTime":3320.929,"body":"stumbling toward eternity. It is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3320.929,"endTime":3324.529,"body":"a combination of literary"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3320.929,"endTime":3324.529,"body":"memoir, which is a passion. I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3324.529,"endTime":3326.929,"body":"love fiction, like, yeah, you're"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3324.529,"endTime":3326.929,"body":"really asked me what I'm"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3326.929,"endTime":3330.259,"body":"reading, I'm out to give you"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3326.929,"endTime":3330.259,"body":"like 10 novels that I, too, I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3330.259,"endTime":3332.899,"body":"would highly recommend the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3330.259,"endTime":3332.899,"body":"passenger by Cormac McCarthy,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3333.049,"endTime":3337.369,"body":"mine. He wrote it 90 years old,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3333.049,"endTime":3337.369,"body":"the guy is still probably the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3337.369,"endTime":3341.689,"body":"greatest living author in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3337.369,"endTime":3341.689,"body":"America. And if not globally,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3342.079,"endTime":3346.099,"body":"and then. And then there's a new"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3342.079,"endTime":3346.099,"body":"author from Peru, Benjamin"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3346.099,"endTime":3349.399,"body":"Labaton, who wrote a book called"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3346.099,"endTime":3349.399,"body":"when we cease to understand the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3349.399,"endTime":3353.599,"body":"world. And I think it's profound"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3349.399,"endTime":3353.599,"body":"look at the impact of physics in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3353.779,"endTime":3358.069,"body":"quantum mechanics. And it's a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3353.779,"endTime":3358.069,"body":"combination of fiction,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3358.399,"endTime":3361.729,"body":"nonfiction, so you get the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3358.399,"endTime":3361.729,"body":"fictionalizes the interior"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3361.729,"endTime":3364.729,"body":"motivation or thought process"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3361.729,"endTime":3364.729,"body":"behind these great scientists,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3364.729,"endTime":3369.499,"body":"but explores these powerful"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3364.729,"endTime":3369.499,"body":"questions of like, these guys"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3369.499,"endTime":3373.639,"body":"and their their discoveries did"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3369.499,"endTime":3373.639,"body":"not lead them to a belief and"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3373.639,"endTime":3378.199,"body":"nothing it actually led them to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3373.639,"endTime":3378.199,"body":"the wall of God itself. And so"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3378.199,"endTime":3381.889,"body":"it's really about that's yeah."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3378.199,"endTime":3381.889,"body":"But But yes, only trainee"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3381.889,"endTime":3385.729,"body":"trainee comes in, it's on its"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3381.889,"endTime":3385.729,"body":"penguin imprints imprint. So"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3385.729,"endTime":3390.409,"body":"it's Waterbrook, Multnomah, my"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3385.729,"endTime":3390.409,"body":"Laga, Multnomah, and you can get"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3390.409,"endTime":3395.419,"body":"it anywhere any, anywhere that"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3390.409,"endTime":3395.419,"body":"sells books. So Amazon, and then"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3395.419,"endTime":3398.629,"body":"I did the audiobook for it as"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3395.419,"endTime":3398.629,"body":"well. And the way that I wrote"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3398.629,"endTime":3402.859,"body":"the book was through I, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3398.629,"endTime":3402.859,"body":"lyrical writer, so I really"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3402.889,"endTime":3406.639,"body":"cared a lot about prose. I took"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3402.889,"endTime":3406.639,"body":"a lot of time to write this was"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3406.639,"endTime":3410.029,"body":"a very difficult book to write."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3406.639,"endTime":3410.029,"body":"It's hard to merge memoir in"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3410.059,"endTime":3415.999,"body":"theology, without the theology,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3410.059,"endTime":3415.999,"body":"making them being heavy. There's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3416.599,"endTime":3421.549,"body":"a desire to Explain the memoir."},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3416.599,"endTime":3421.549,"body":"You can't do that you have to"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3421.549,"endTime":3425.179,"body":"let the narrative be what it is"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3421.549,"endTime":3425.179,"body":"and let the reader experience"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3425.209,"endTime":3428.869,"body":"for themselves. So I fought my"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3425.209,"endTime":3428.869,"body":"publisher Mike, I'm not going"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3428.869,"endTime":3431.929,"body":"to, I'm not going to give"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3428.869,"endTime":3431.929,"body":"lessons out of my life by John's"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3431.929,"endTime":3434.839,"body":"gonna, I just want to share the"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3431.929,"endTime":3434.839,"body":"stories. And hopefully they'll"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3434.839,"endTime":3439.189,"body":"come back. Yeah, oh surely with"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3434.839,"endTime":3439.189,"body":"how these themes from the cross"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3439.219,"endTime":3444.079,"body":"speak to those areas. But I did"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3439.219,"endTime":3444.079,"body":"the audiobook for it in that I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3444.079,"endTime":3447.949,"body":"actually, you know, audiobooks"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3444.079,"endTime":3447.949,"body":"have become so popular, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3447.949,"endTime":3451.969,"body":"people, you know, have busyness,"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3447.949,"endTime":3451.969,"body":"their lives, and that this book"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3451.969,"endTime":3454.429,"body":"was almost meant to be read out"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3451.969,"endTime":3454.429,"body":"loud because of the way that I"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3454.429,"endTime":3456.949,"body":"write because I would write"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3454.429,"endTime":3456.949,"body":"everything out. Then I'd speak"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3456.949,"endTime":3460.969,"body":"it out loud and tell it Intel it"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3456.949,"endTime":3460.969,"body":"sounded like me, except without"},{"speaker":"Josh White","startTime":3460.969,"endTime":3461.539,"body":"mistakes."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3465.139,"endTime":3468.169,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3465.139,"endTime":3468.169,"body":"Yeah, well, yeah, the Go get the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3468.169,"endTime":3470.839,"body":"audiobook is stumbling toward"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3468.169,"endTime":3470.839,"body":"eternity. And you know, Josh,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3470.839,"endTime":3473.749,"body":"this is a fantastic"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3470.839,"endTime":3473.749,"body":"conversation. I just loved going"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3473.749,"endTime":3477.169,"body":"deep into the foolishness of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3473.749,"endTime":3477.169,"body":"grace of what it looks like for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3477.169,"endTime":3483.979,"body":"us to, to actually be confronted"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3477.169,"endTime":3483.979,"body":"with this the end of ourself, so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3483.979,"endTime":3487.969,"body":"that we could just have have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3483.979,"endTime":3487.969,"body":"Jesus and say, I'm now dependent"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3488.629,"endTime":3491.659,"body":"totally on you and all the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3488.629,"endTime":3491.659,"body":"community around us how"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3491.689,"endTime":3495.469,"body":"confession drives us in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3491.689,"endTime":3495.469,"body":"community, how we can be a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3495.469,"endTime":3500.419,"body":"witness to the gospel, and to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3495.469,"endTime":3500.419,"body":"Jesus in everyday life of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3500.719,"endTime":3504.619,"body":"saying, This is who I love. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3500.719,"endTime":3504.619,"body":"this is what I love, and this is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3504.619,"endTime":3508.879,"body":"who I am. And so thank you. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3504.619,"endTime":3508.879,"body":"really really enjoyed it. It was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3508.879,"endTime":3510.139,"body":"a fantastic conversation."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3511.07,"endTime":3513.05,"body":"Yeah, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3511.07,"endTime":3513.05,"body":"having me. I really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3513.05,"endTime":3513.17,"body":"it."}]}