{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.29,"body":"She became an"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.29,"body":"Anchorite. Which little sell on"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":4.41,"endTime":8.67,"body":"church. And I think that was the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":4.41,"endTime":8.67,"body":"most shocking and appalling"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":8.7,"endTime":13.2,"body":"thing that I've heard. Like, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":8.7,"endTime":13.2,"body":"was like, Oh my gosh, are you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":13.2,"endTime":16.77,"body":"serious? Like she just lived a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":13.2,"endTime":16.77,"body":"little sell on the, at the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":16.77,"endTime":22.35,"body":"church? Yeah. That's a I don't"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":16.77,"endTime":22.35,"body":"know, I was like, Oh, that bar."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":22.44,"endTime":26.28,"body":"That's crazy. That's like, how"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":22.44,"endTime":26.28,"body":"do you do that? I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":26.28,"endTime":30.54,"body":"know, it is totally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":26.28,"endTime":30.54,"body":"wild. And you go, I mean, being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":30.54,"endTime":36.24,"body":"an anchor eight is, is really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":30.54,"endTime":36.24,"body":"baffling. 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We longed to see the body"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":67.44,"endTime":72.06,"body":"of Christ look like Jesus. I'm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":67.44,"endTime":72.06,"body":"your host, Joshua Johnson. Go to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":72.06,"endTime":75.9,"body":"shifting culture podcast.com to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":72.06,"endTime":75.9,"body":"interact and donate. And don't"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":75.9,"endTime":78.54,"body":"forget to hit the Follow button"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":75.9,"endTime":78.54,"body":"on your favorite podcast app to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":78.54,"endTime":83.19,"body":"be notified when new episodes"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":78.54,"endTime":83.19,"body":"come out each week. And go leave"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":83.22,"endTime":87.03,"body":"a rating and review. 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Also, join us on"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":98.43,"endTime":102.42,"body":"Instagram, Facebook, Twitter"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":102.48,"endTime":106.83,"body":"threads anywhere you find social"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":102.48,"endTime":106.83,"body":"media. We're at shifting culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":106.83,"endTime":112.08,"body":"podcast, just go and follow us."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":106.83,"endTime":112.08,"body":"I post a lot of quotes and video"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":112.08,"endTime":118.29,"body":"clips of the podcast. You would"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":112.08,"endTime":118.29,"body":"really enjoy it so join me on"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":118.35,"endTime":122.07,"body":"social media. Previous guests on"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":118.35,"endTime":122.07,"body":"the show have included Jessica"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":122.07,"endTime":125.73,"body":"Hooton Wilson, Karen swallow"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":122.07,"endTime":125.73,"body":"prior and Jen Pollock Michel,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":126.03,"endTime":129.36,"body":"you can go back and listen to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":126.03,"endTime":129.36,"body":"those episodes and more. 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Her work"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":142.08,"endTime":145.92,"body":"has been published by academic"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":145.92,"endTime":148.92,"body":"and popular outlets, including"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":145.92,"endTime":148.92,"body":"plough quarterly, and the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":148.92,"endTime":152.55,"body":"Journal of medieval and early"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":148.92,"endTime":152.55,"body":"modern studies. Grace hosts a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":152.55,"endTime":155.37,"body":"podcast called old books with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":152.55,"endTime":155.37,"body":"grace which celebrates the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":155.37,"endTime":159.21,"body":"beauty and joy found in reading"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":155.37,"endTime":159.21,"body":"the literature and theology of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":159.21,"endTime":162.54,"body":"the past. She lives near Denver,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":159.21,"endTime":162.54,"body":"Colorado, with her husband and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":162.54,"endTime":166.35,"body":"three children, Grace and I get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":162.54,"endTime":166.35,"body":"into a really great conversation"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":166.35,"endTime":169.68,"body":"around the medieval period and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":166.35,"endTime":169.68,"body":"how Jesus was viewed. It's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":169.68,"endTime":172.92,"body":"amazing to me how illuminating"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":169.68,"endTime":172.92,"body":"it is to read thinkers of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":172.92,"endTime":175.89,"body":"past, and how it shapes my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":172.92,"endTime":175.89,"body":"perspective in ways that are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":176.19,"endTime":179.91,"body":"unexpected, and it helps me"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":176.19,"endTime":179.91,"body":"encountered Jesus in new ways."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":180.09,"endTime":183.33,"body":"We talk about people at Thomas"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":180.09,"endTime":183.33,"body":"Aquinas and Julian of Norwich,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":183.45,"endTime":187.41,"body":"and we look at Jesus as a night"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":183.45,"endTime":187.41,"body":"as judge as mother and more."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":187.74,"endTime":191.46,"body":"Join us as we gain a fresh"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":187.74,"endTime":191.46,"body":"perspective, by encountering the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":191.46,"endTime":195.27,"body":"past and looking at Jesus"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":191.46,"endTime":195.27,"body":"through medieval eyes. Here's my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":195.27,"endTime":200.34,"body":"conversation with Grace Hamon."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":195.27,"endTime":200.34,"body":"Grace, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":200.37,"endTime":202.68,"body":"Thank you so much for joining"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":200.37,"endTime":202.68,"body":"me. I'm really excited to have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":202.68,"endTime":203.04,"body":"you on."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":203.73,"endTime":205.8,"body":"Thank you. I'm so glad"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":203.73,"endTime":205.8,"body":"to be here."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":206.16,"endTime":210.0,"body":"Yeah, if I do a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":206.16,"endTime":210.0,"body":"mistake and say Jesus through"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":210.0,"endTime":216.72,"body":"Middle Eastern eyes, I apologize"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":210.0,"endTime":216.72,"body":"because we know that the book"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":216.72,"endTime":219.51,"body":"that Kenneth Bailey book, jeez,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":216.72,"endTime":219.51,"body":"Jesus through Middle Eastern"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":219.51,"endTime":224.13,"body":"eyes to train missionaries, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":219.51,"endTime":224.13,"body":"so we use it all the time. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":224.13,"endTime":228.27,"body":"so now I'm looking at your book,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":224.13,"endTime":228.27,"body":"Jesus through medieval eyes, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":228.27,"endTime":231.33,"body":"the very beginning is so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":228.27,"endTime":231.33,"body":"similar. It's just getting to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":231.33,"endTime":232.77,"body":"me. It's, it's tough. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":232.77,"endTime":237.09,"body":"true. It's true. Yes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":232.77,"endTime":237.09,"body":"The Kenneth Bailey book, I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":237.09,"endTime":239.76,"body":"seen it pop, I haven't read it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":237.09,"endTime":239.76,"body":"myself. But I see it pop up."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":240.51,"endTime":242.37,"body":"When you type in Jesus through"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":244.35,"endTime":247.2,"body":"Jesus through"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":244.35,"endTime":247.2,"body":"and there it is. But I really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":247.23,"endTime":251.16,"body":"like looking at Jesus through"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":247.23,"endTime":251.16,"body":"medieval eyes. It's very"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":251.64,"endTime":256.05,"body":"interesting. It's something that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":251.64,"endTime":256.05,"body":"I think a lot of people pass"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":256.05,"endTime":260.43,"body":"over. 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Why?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":271.53,"endTime":276.78,"body":"Why are you attracted to this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":276.78,"endTime":280.8,"body":"period? And what is it about the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":276.78,"endTime":280.8,"body":"medieval era that's that makes"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":280.8,"endTime":281.64,"body":"you come alive?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":282.81,"endTime":286.05,"body":"It's a great question."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":282.81,"endTime":286.05,"body":"And yes, you're so right. People"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":286.08,"endTime":292.62,"body":"normally have a fairly negative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":286.08,"endTime":292.62,"body":"assumptions and thoughts about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":292.62,"endTime":297.87,"body":"this era, and I totally shared"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":292.62,"endTime":297.87,"body":"that too. I totally believed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":297.87,"endTime":300.45,"body":"that it was a period of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":297.87,"endTime":300.45,"body":"corruption and superstar Mission"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":300.45,"endTime":303.72,"body":"and we're better now and blah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":300.45,"endTime":303.72,"body":"blah, blah, all that stuff. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":303.72,"endTime":307.77,"body":"then, in graduate school when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":303.72,"endTime":307.77,"body":"actually started reading them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":307.77,"endTime":311.73,"body":"for myself reading, so I, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":307.77,"endTime":311.73,"body":"background is in English"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":311.73,"endTime":315.99,"body":"literature. And I started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":311.73,"endTime":315.99,"body":"reading the poetry and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":315.99,"endTime":319.8,"body":"contemplative writing of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":315.99,"endTime":319.8,"body":"Middle Ages in Middle English."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.85,"endTime":327.6,"body":"And I was shocked, because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.85,"endTime":327.6,"body":"began to realize that Jesus was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":327.69,"endTime":332.37,"body":"everywhere in these. And now"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":327.69,"endTime":332.37,"body":"keep in mind, too, that this was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":332.58,"endTime":337.41,"body":"during my master's degree when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":332.58,"endTime":337.41,"body":"was at a giant State University"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":337.41,"endTime":341.88,"body":"in a very, very secular English"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":337.41,"endTime":341.88,"body":"Department. And yet, Jesus was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":341.91,"endTime":346.44,"body":"everywhere, you could not get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":341.91,"endTime":346.44,"body":"away from him reading these, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":346.44,"endTime":351.33,"body":"had to take them and their love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":346.44,"endTime":351.33,"body":"and their passion for Christ"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.33,"endTime":354.96,"body":"very seriously. And it was such"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.33,"endTime":354.96,"body":"a breath of fresh air, and I had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":354.96,"endTime":359.07,"body":"made so many assumptions about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":354.96,"endTime":359.07,"body":"them. And so then I had to re"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":359.07,"endTime":363.33,"body":"examine all of that and go, What"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":359.07,"endTime":363.33,"body":"am I missing? Why did I feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":363.33,"endTime":369.03,"body":"that way? And I just got deeper"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":363.33,"endTime":369.03,"body":"and deeper into them and started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":369.06,"endTime":372.57,"body":"paying attention to their art"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":369.06,"endTime":372.57,"body":"and their theology beyond the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":372.57,"endTime":375.93,"body":"beautiful poetry that I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":372.57,"endTime":375.93,"body":"reading. And it was such a gift"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":376.29,"endTime":379.8,"body":"to me. And that's, that's how I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":376.29,"endTime":379.8,"body":"got obsessed with the Middle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":379.8,"endTime":380.25,"body":"Ages."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":381.87,"endTime":385.56,"body":"Well, well, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":381.87,"endTime":385.56,"body":"love that. And I love that, that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":385.56,"endTime":389.28,"body":"what reading something different"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":385.56,"endTime":389.28,"body":"does to you like reading"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":389.28,"endTime":393.06,"body":"something that is unexpected?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":389.28,"endTime":393.06,"body":"And it moves into different"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":393.06,"endTime":399.72,"body":"eras? How? How can we start to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":393.06,"endTime":399.72,"body":"open our own eyes and minds as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":399.99,"endTime":405.3,"body":"contemporaries of our age now,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":399.99,"endTime":405.3,"body":"by reading something that is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":405.63,"endTime":408.72,"body":"feels very foreign to us? What"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":405.63,"endTime":408.72,"body":"does it do to us? What does it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":408.72,"endTime":412.5,"body":"do to our minds? How does it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":408.72,"endTime":412.5,"body":"reshape the way that we think?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":413.73,"endTime":417.9,"body":"So this is a question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":413.73,"endTime":417.9,"body":"I'm keenly interested in. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":417.9,"endTime":423.06,"body":"think, I think we are used to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":417.9,"endTime":423.06,"body":"approaching texts from the past"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":423.06,"endTime":429.45,"body":"suspiciously sort of side eyeing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":423.06,"endTime":429.45,"body":"them, okay, is this going to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":429.45,"endTime":434.52,"body":"up to my standards. 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And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":487.17,"endTime":492.03,"body":"beginning to cultivate a spirit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":487.17,"endTime":492.03,"body":"of humility of okay, I may be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":492.03,"endTime":496.29,"body":"wrong, I may have made some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":492.03,"endTime":496.29,"body":"assumptions about things that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.29,"endTime":500.67,"body":"didn't actually know. 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And so it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":524.61,"endTime":528.3,"body":"real gift, when you can begin to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":528.3,"endTime":529.86,"body":"cultivate that openness."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":530.34,"endTime":532.47,"body":"Well, if you're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":530.34,"endTime":532.47,"body":"cultivating open escena it's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":532.47,"endTime":535.65,"body":"more like a dialogue, you're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":532.47,"endTime":535.65,"body":"dialoguing with your friends,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":536.01,"endTime":540.75,"body":"and and learning from them. 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And it still will fail to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1077.319,"endTime":1081.399,"body":"capture the majesty of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1077.319,"endTime":1081.399,"body":"Godhead and the truth of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.399,"endTime":1085.929,"body":"Godhead. And so I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.399,"endTime":1085.929,"body":"appreciate that, from such an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1085.929,"endTime":1087.489,"body":"eminent theologian,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1087.85,"endTime":1090.49,"body":"as I was reading"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1087.85,"endTime":1090.49,"body":"through your book, the thing"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1090.49,"endTime":1094.27,"body":"that really struck me was it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1090.49,"endTime":1094.27,"body":"felt like the, the medieval"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1094.3,"endTime":1098.71,"body":"period, and this this time, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1094.3,"endTime":1098.71,"body":"this place, it felt like, well,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1098.71,"endTime":1102.22,"body":"one that Christ was everywhere,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1098.71,"endTime":1102.22,"body":"like it was like Is he just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1102.22,"endTime":1105.79,"body":"saturated the culture and, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1102.22,"endTime":1105.79,"body":"know, the art and the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1105.79,"endTime":1110.08,"body":"literature, and he was just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1105.79,"endTime":1110.08,"body":"there, but it felt like an"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1110.08,"endTime":1114.22,"body":"embodiment of of Jesus, like"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1110.08,"endTime":1114.22,"body":"their lives were an encounter"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1114.43,"endTime":1118.96,"body":"with Jesus, and not just a, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1114.43,"endTime":1118.96,"body":"know, theological treatise on"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1118.96,"endTime":1123.91,"body":"Jesus, or thoughts about Jesus."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1118.96,"endTime":1123.91,"body":"And, you know, in my head, my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1124.39,"endTime":1130.0,"body":"modernity and modernity, we like"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1124.39,"endTime":1130.0,"body":"to know that we have all the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1130.0,"endTime":1134.32,"body":"right answers, and we get the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1130.0,"endTime":1134.32,"body":"truth from inside of ourselves."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1134.59,"endTime":1138.6100000000001,"body":"And it feels like and here,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1134.59,"endTime":1138.6100000000001,"body":"Jesus is the one that is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1138.6100000000001,"endTime":1142.9,"body":"encountering them, that that's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1138.6100000000001,"endTime":1142.9,"body":"the thing that really propels"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1142.9,"endTime":1148.15,"body":"them forward. And it's that, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1142.9,"endTime":1148.15,"body":"mean, one of the ones was Julian"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1148.15,"endTime":1153.67,"body":"of Norwich. And she, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1148.15,"endTime":1153.67,"body":"as she had her, her showings,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1154.54,"endTime":1160.0,"body":"she became this an anchor,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1154.54,"endTime":1160.0,"body":"right? Which a little sell on"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1160.1200000000001,"endTime":1164.38,"body":"church, and I think that was the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1160.1200000000001,"endTime":1164.38,"body":"most shocking and appalling"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1164.41,"endTime":1168.94,"body":"thing that I've heard, like, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1164.41,"endTime":1168.94,"body":"was like, Oh, my gosh, are you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1168.94,"endTime":1172.51,"body":"serious? Like she just lived a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1168.94,"endTime":1172.51,"body":"little sell on the, at the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1172.51,"endTime":1178.09,"body":"church? Yep. That's, I don't"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1172.51,"endTime":1178.09,"body":"know. I was like, Oh, that part?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1178.15,"endTime":1181.21,"body":"That's crazy. That's like, how"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1178.15,"endTime":1181.21,"body":"do you do that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1181.69,"endTime":1187.15,"body":"I know, it is totally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1181.69,"endTime":1187.15,"body":"wild. And you go, I mean, being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1187.15,"endTime":1193.51,"body":"an anchor eight, is, is really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1187.15,"endTime":1193.51,"body":"baffling. Because it was, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1193.51,"endTime":1199.6,"body":"know, the bishop would come and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1193.51,"endTime":1199.6,"body":"do the, the liturgy for the dead"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1199.63,"endTime":1204.1,"body":"over you, because you were dying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1199.63,"endTime":1204.1,"body":"to the world. I mean, and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1204.1,"endTime":1208.45,"body":"funny thing was, is that it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1204.1,"endTime":1208.45,"body":"sounds so isolating, but then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.45,"endTime":1212.65,"body":"you actually became this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.45,"endTime":1212.65,"body":"cornerstone of your community."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1212.65,"endTime":1217.0,"body":"So Julian, people would travel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1212.65,"endTime":1217.0,"body":"to visit her and to seek out her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.33,"endTime":1221.56,"body":"spiritual guidance and her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.33,"endTime":1221.56,"body":"prayers because she was by being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1221.59,"endTime":1225.22,"body":"in literally in the fabric of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1221.59,"endTime":1225.22,"body":"the church embedded in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1225.22,"endTime":1228.97,"body":"church, she was intimately a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1225.22,"endTime":1228.97,"body":"part of every aspect of parish"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1228.97,"endTime":1235.24,"body":"life. And so she was there at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1228.97,"endTime":1235.24,"body":"every single liturgy, every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.24,"endTime":1241.75,"body":"single service. And, and her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.24,"endTime":1241.75,"body":"job, her vocation, was to pray"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1241.78,"endTime":1245.23,"body":"for everybody in that space. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1241.78,"endTime":1245.23,"body":"she was so intimately connected"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.23,"endTime":1250.06,"body":"to space like you're saying with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.23,"endTime":1250.06,"body":"this embodiment stuff, and it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1250.06,"endTime":1255.85,"body":"was so it goes so much beyond"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1250.06,"endTime":1255.85,"body":"the the mind and being able to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.85,"endTime":1258.04,"body":"make sense of things because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.85,"endTime":1258.04,"body":"really being an anchor, right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.07,"endTime":1261.25,"body":"just doesn't make sense to us."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.07,"endTime":1261.25,"body":"And I don't think it would or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1261.28,"endTime":1261.7,"body":"well?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1264.49,"endTime":1268.1200000000001,"body":"No, like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1264.49,"endTime":1268.1200000000001,"body":"she was, yeah, she was involved"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1268.1200000000001,"endTime":1272.02,"body":"in every aspects of the parish,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1268.1200000000001,"endTime":1272.02,"body":"but only through a little window"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1272.02,"endTime":1276.04,"body":"through herself. Like, she"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1272.02,"endTime":1276.04,"body":"wasn't really like she was an"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1276.04,"endTime":1282.49,"body":"onlooker of it. Like, so. I'm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1276.04,"endTime":1282.49,"body":"sorry, I don't know, I can't get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1282.49,"endTime":1282.94,"body":"over it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1284.38,"endTime":1285.94,"body":"That's fair, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1284.38,"endTime":1285.94,"body":"fair."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1286.48,"endTime":1289.63,"body":"It's also a very"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1286.48,"endTime":1289.63,"body":"inspiring, like, how can I get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1289.63,"endTime":1294.82,"body":"to a place of, I just want"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1289.63,"endTime":1294.82,"body":"Jesus, I'm gonna give it all up"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1294.97,"endTime":1299.95,"body":"for him, I've had this encounter"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1294.97,"endTime":1299.95,"body":"and this experience of him, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1299.95,"endTime":1303.04,"body":"know, and I'm going to then just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1299.95,"endTime":1303.04,"body":"give it all up. And I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1303.04,"endTime":1309.52,"body":"sit here and contemplate and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1303.04,"endTime":1309.52,"body":"then write and give my life to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1309.52,"endTime":1313.6,"body":"prayer. It's also really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1309.52,"endTime":1313.6,"body":"inspiring. It's just something"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1313.63,"endTime":1319.09,"body":"you know, I can't imagine ever"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1313.63,"endTime":1319.09,"body":"doing it. But it is inspiring."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1319.18,"endTime":1322.45,"body":"As you were reading this, what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1319.18,"endTime":1322.45,"body":"really struck you with Julian of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1322.45,"endTime":1327.16,"body":"Norwich, when you were have been"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1322.45,"endTime":1327.16,"body":"reading her and walking in her"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1327.19,"endTime":1328.96,"body":"shoes? Um,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1329.47,"endTime":1331.39,"body":"wow, that's a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1329.47,"endTime":1331.39,"body":"question. Because I gotta say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1331.39,"endTime":1336.55,"body":"Julian of Norwich is my favorite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1331.39,"endTime":1336.55,"body":"of all the medieval writers. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1336.55,"endTime":1342.58,"body":"she's the one that has, she has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1336.55,"endTime":1342.58,"body":"her influences in every single"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1342.58,"endTime":1345.97,"body":"chapter of this book, even when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1342.58,"endTime":1345.97,"body":"she's not explicitly there, her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1345.97,"endTime":1349.81,"body":"career theology has, and her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1345.97,"endTime":1349.81,"body":"writing have shaped my own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1349.81,"endTime":1355.24,"body":"thinking so much and my own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1349.81,"endTime":1355.24,"body":"spiritual journey. But I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1355.54,"endTime":1360.94,"body":"what Julian has showed me so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1355.54,"endTime":1360.94,"body":"much is the character of God's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1360.94,"endTime":1366.64,"body":"love. So Julian is truly the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1360.94,"endTime":1366.64,"body":"most profound theologian I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1366.64,"endTime":1372.22,"body":"read on the closeness and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1366.64,"endTime":1372.22,"body":"character of Christ. And so you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1372.22,"endTime":1375.16,"body":"mentioned that Jesus as a mother"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1372.22,"endTime":1375.16,"body":"chapter, and this is one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.16,"endTime":1380.26,"body":"those chapters that at first,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.16,"endTime":1380.26,"body":"people feel very strangely about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1380.26,"endTime":1384.6100000000001,"body":"it sounds so odd, and it sounds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1380.26,"endTime":1384.6100000000001,"body":"almost new age or something like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.6100000000001,"endTime":1388.81,"body":"that. And then you begin to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.6100000000001,"endTime":1388.81,"body":"realize that, okay, these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.81,"endTime":1392.8,"body":"monastic writers who were first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.81,"endTime":1392.8,"body":"picking up on this language, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1392.8,"endTime":1398.44,"body":"the gospels, and in wisdom"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1392.8,"endTime":1398.44,"body":"literature, were fascinated by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1398.44,"endTime":1403.6,"body":"what Compassionate Leadership"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1398.44,"endTime":1403.6,"body":"looked like, what, in a world"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.66,"endTime":1409.63,"body":"where it was, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.66,"endTime":1409.63,"body":"heavily patriarchal society. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1409.63,"endTime":1412.75,"body":"wasn't like the honored women"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1409.63,"endTime":1412.75,"body":"more than we do today or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1412.75,"endTime":1418.18,"body":"anything like that. But, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1412.75,"endTime":1418.18,"body":"masculine authority was viewed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1418.18,"endTime":1427.09,"body":"as so more like a judge right or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1418.18,"endTime":1427.09,"body":"more in power, and, and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1427.09,"endTime":1431.65,"body":"disciplinarian of relationships."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1427.09,"endTime":1431.65,"body":"So that that was how masculine"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1431.65,"endTime":1435.16,"body":"authority was commonly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1431.65,"endTime":1435.16,"body":"understood. 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And in Jesus doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1451.63,"endTime":1456.31,"body":"things like washing people's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1456.31,"endTime":1460.54,"body":"feet, and caring for their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1456.31,"endTime":1460.54,"body":"bodily health, things that had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1460.54,"endTime":1464.29,"body":"long been associated with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1460.54,"endTime":1464.29,"body":"motherhood. And she begins to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1464.29,"endTime":1468.19,"body":"think about it in terms of how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1464.29,"endTime":1468.19,"body":"close Christ is to us, and how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1468.19,"endTime":1474.25,"body":"much he loves us on a personal,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1468.19,"endTime":1474.25,"body":"deep and intimate level, how,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.67,"endTime":1478.99,"body":"how a nursing mother is caring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.67,"endTime":1478.99,"body":"for her child, or how a mother"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1479.02,"endTime":1483.46,"body":"laborers, and in the Middle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1479.02,"endTime":1483.46,"body":"Ages, you know, labor and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1483.46,"endTime":1487.57,"body":"pregnancy were much, much more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1483.46,"endTime":1487.57,"body":"lethal and dangerous than they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1487.57,"endTime":1493.3600000000001,"body":"are now. And so, this comparison"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1487.57,"endTime":1493.3600000000001,"body":"between Christ on the cross"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1493.3600000000001,"endTime":1497.95,"body":"laboring for our salvation was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1493.3600000000001,"endTime":1497.95,"body":"super meaningful to people,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1498.3700000000001,"endTime":1503.89,"body":"putting, putting his life out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1498.3700000000001,"endTime":1503.89,"body":"there for our lives to to bring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1503.92,"endTime":1509.17,"body":"us to life. And so she writes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1503.92,"endTime":1509.17,"body":"just the most beautiful theology"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.2,"endTime":1515.95,"body":"of the intimacy of Jesus that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.2,"endTime":1515.95,"body":"signified by a mother and a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1515.95,"endTime":1522.31,"body":"nursing needy child. And in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1515.95,"endTime":1522.31,"body":"has meant so much to me on a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1522.31,"endTime":1525.43,"body":"personal level that the chapter"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1522.31,"endTime":1525.43,"body":"can't even really begin to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1525.43,"endTime":1526.72,"body":"express. So."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1528.01,"endTime":1530.89,"body":"So what does it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1528.01,"endTime":1530.89,"body":"look like for us then set to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1530.89,"endTime":1534.64,"body":"view Jesus as as mother, like,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1530.89,"endTime":1534.64,"body":"how would it change the way that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1534.64,"endTime":1541.99,"body":"we interact with Jesus and see"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1534.64,"endTime":1541.99,"body":"him and our relationship with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1541.99,"endTime":1542.23,"body":"him?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1543.97,"endTime":1546.58,"body":"I can't speak"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1543.97,"endTime":1546.58,"body":"necessarily to other people. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1546.58,"endTime":1551.53,"body":"I think for me, it it changes a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1546.58,"endTime":1551.53,"body":"couple things. One is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1552.82,"endTime":1556.63,"body":"obviously, this is a metaphor,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1552.82,"endTime":1556.63,"body":"and it's not talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1556.66,"endTime":1562.3,"body":"Christ's earthly body, but that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1556.66,"endTime":1562.3,"body":"feminine imagery worry is part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1562.33,"endTime":1565.8700000000001,"body":"of the character of Jesus is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1562.33,"endTime":1565.8700000000001,"body":"really big deal for me as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1565.8700000000001,"endTime":1570.04,"body":"woman, it and I think is a big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1565.8700000000001,"endTime":1570.04,"body":"deal for other people too and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.04,"endTime":1572.89,"body":"should be a big deal for men"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.04,"endTime":1572.89,"body":"too, because you Oh, I can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1572.89,"endTime":1577.8700000000001,"body":"claim for identification with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1572.89,"endTime":1577.8700000000001,"body":"Jesus, the women in my life can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1577.8700000000001,"endTime":1581.8,"body":"too, you know. And so I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1577.8700000000001,"endTime":1581.8,"body":"that's one really important and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1581.8,"endTime":1589.09,"body":"beautiful thing, where how we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1581.8,"endTime":1589.09,"body":"are able to follow Jesus and see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1589.09,"endTime":1593.98,"body":"our love is similar to his is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1589.09,"endTime":1593.98,"body":"expanded by this vision. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.98,"endTime":1599.6200000000001,"body":"then the other thing is that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.98,"endTime":1599.6200000000001,"body":"for me, it has changed how I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1599.6200000000001,"endTime":1604.66,"body":"approach Christ in confession."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1599.6200000000001,"endTime":1604.66,"body":"And so not even like sacramental"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1604.66,"endTime":1609.16,"body":"confession, but just confession"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1604.66,"endTime":1609.16,"body":"as okay, I've, I've screwed up,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1609.19,"endTime":1612.16,"body":"I've really I did, I did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1609.19,"endTime":1612.16,"body":"something or failed to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1612.16,"endTime":1618.43,"body":"something that I shouldn't have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1612.16,"endTime":1618.43,"body":"done. And this image, Julian"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1618.52,"endTime":1624.73,"body":"really associates it closely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1618.52,"endTime":1624.73,"body":"with how God how Jesus feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.73,"endTime":1630.28,"body":"about us after we fail. Where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.73,"endTime":1630.28,"body":"the language of motherhood"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1630.52,"endTime":1634.3,"body":"allows her to express that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1630.52,"endTime":1634.3,"body":"like, with a mother's little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1634.3,"endTime":1638.53,"body":"children, she's going to want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1634.3,"endTime":1638.53,"body":"be there even closer, when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1638.53,"endTime":1643.42,"body":"fall in when you are in pain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1638.53,"endTime":1643.42,"body":"when you are hurt. And when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1643.42,"endTime":1649.6,"body":"have hurt other people. Christ's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1643.42,"endTime":1649.6,"body":"maternal love allows us to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1649.6,"endTime":1656.8600000000001,"body":"really concretize the idea that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1649.6,"endTime":1656.8600000000001,"body":"Oh, God already loves you, He is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1656.8600000000001,"endTime":1661.54,"body":"closer than your own skin, Jesus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1656.8600000000001,"endTime":1661.54,"body":"has carried you in his body and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1661.84,"endTime":1666.13,"body":"you are more beloved to him than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1661.84,"endTime":1666.13,"body":"you can even begin to imagine"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1666.13,"endTime":1673.45,"body":"just as a little, little baby is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1666.13,"endTime":1673.45,"body":"so beloved to her mother. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1673.45,"endTime":1678.4,"body":"that what metaphors like that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1673.45,"endTime":1678.4,"body":"can do for us is they give us a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1678.4,"endTime":1684.82,"body":"picture that is hard to express"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1678.4,"endTime":1684.82,"body":"literally. But we all because we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1684.82,"endTime":1688.06,"body":"all have mothers, regardless of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1684.82,"endTime":1688.06,"body":"whether your mother or not, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1688.06,"endTime":1691.54,"body":"all know that the feeling of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1688.06,"endTime":1691.54,"body":"need for your mother to be close"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1691.54,"endTime":1696.31,"body":"from when we were kids. And if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1691.54,"endTime":1696.31,"body":"you had a mother who was, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1696.31,"endTime":1699.64,"body":"know, a loving mother, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1696.31,"endTime":1699.64,"body":"the feel of being held tight"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1699.64,"endTime":1704.02,"body":"after you fallen. And that that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1699.64,"endTime":1704.02,"body":"is the feeling after we've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1704.02,"endTime":1711.6100000000001,"body":"fallen in sin or in our failures"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1704.02,"endTime":1711.6100000000001,"body":"is a huge deal, and shapes the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1711.6100000000001,"endTime":1719.38,"body":"whole of how we can confess our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1711.6100000000001,"endTime":1719.38,"body":"sins, and can face what we've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1719.38,"endTime":1721.3600000000001,"body":"done and not hide from what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1719.38,"endTime":1721.3600000000001,"body":"we've done."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1722.5,"endTime":1725.68,"body":"I think that's,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1722.5,"endTime":1725.68,"body":"that's a beautiful invitation"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1725.71,"endTime":1731.2,"body":"for us is to view Jesus as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1725.71,"endTime":1731.2,"body":"mother and to see that he is as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1731.2,"endTime":1734.95,"body":"close as our own skin that he"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1731.2,"endTime":1734.95,"body":"loves us so much that he's going"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1734.95,"endTime":1739.06,"body":"to be with us when we fail and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1734.95,"endTime":1739.06,"body":"fall. And oftentimes, I know, in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1739.06,"endTime":1744.1,"body":"the in the West, we primarily"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1739.06,"endTime":1744.1,"body":"see God as judge. And in this in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1744.1,"endTime":1746.89,"body":"this book, you have a whole"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1744.1,"endTime":1746.89,"body":"chapter on Jesus as the judge."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1746.92,"endTime":1753.01,"body":"And so now that let's contrast"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1746.92,"endTime":1753.01,"body":"the, the mother image to to the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1753.01,"endTime":1757.93,"body":"judge image as you go in there,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1753.01,"endTime":1757.93,"body":"and what does it look like to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1758.17,"endTime":1764.32,"body":"encounter the fear of God? And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1758.17,"endTime":1764.32,"body":"to know that there has this this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1764.32,"endTime":1770.29,"body":"judge as well? That Jesus Yes,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1764.32,"endTime":1770.29,"body":"is is mother Jesus is also"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1770.29,"endTime":1770.98,"body":"judge."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1772.21,"endTime":1774.88,"body":"Yeah, this was a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1772.21,"endTime":1774.88,"body":"interesting chapter for me to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1774.88,"endTime":1778.39,"body":"write it was one of the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1774.88,"endTime":1778.39,"body":"difficult chapters because I, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1778.39,"endTime":1781.96,"body":"was, to be honest, I was kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1778.39,"endTime":1781.96,"body":"dreading it because it is a it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1781.96,"endTime":1786.85,"body":"a scary image. And it's one that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1781.96,"endTime":1786.85,"body":"you see, you can see handled"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1786.85,"endTime":1792.04,"body":"rather poorly. I definitely have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1786.85,"endTime":1792.04,"body":"my share of very, very angry,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1792.04,"endTime":1795.04,"body":"you know, Street Preachers or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1792.04,"endTime":1795.04,"body":"whoever who really wants to tell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1795.04,"endTime":1797.56,"body":"you how you're going straight to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1795.04,"endTime":1797.56,"body":"hell. And you're like, you don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1797.56,"endTime":1801.76,"body":"even know me, why are you saying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1797.56,"endTime":1801.76,"body":"that? But so there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1801.76,"endTime":1806.41,"body":"baggage around this image. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1801.76,"endTime":1806.41,"body":"so I came to this and started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1806.41,"endTime":1810.49,"body":"paying attention. It's now the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1806.41,"endTime":1810.49,"body":"the image and theology of Jesus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1810.49,"endTime":1815.65,"body":"as a judge was everywhere in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1810.49,"endTime":1815.65,"body":"Middle Ages, one of the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.65,"endTime":1819.31,"body":"popular representations of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.65,"endTime":1819.31,"body":"Christ in art was Christ as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1819.6100000000001,"endTime":1824.1100000000001,"body":"eternal King or Christ on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1819.6100000000001,"endTime":1824.1100000000001,"body":"Judgment Day. And it was in all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.1100000000001,"endTime":1830.05,"body":"the churches and in you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.1100000000001,"endTime":1830.05,"body":"private devotional materials, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1830.05,"endTime":1833.5,"body":"was all over the place. So it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1830.05,"endTime":1833.5,"body":"was something they were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1833.5,"endTime":1839.38,"body":"reckoning with. And I began to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1833.5,"endTime":1839.38,"body":"think about the weirdness that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1839.38,"endTime":1843.49,"body":"we are called to a fear of God"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1839.38,"endTime":1843.49,"body":"that the Scriptures tell us that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1843.52,"endTime":1847.8700000000001,"body":"fear of God is the beginning of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1843.52,"endTime":1847.8700000000001,"body":"wisdom. And, and then you begin"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.8700000000001,"endTime":1851.02,"body":"to notice the places where the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.8700000000001,"endTime":1851.02,"body":"even the disciples are fearful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1851.02,"endTime":1856.9,"body":"of Jesus and in some of them. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1851.02,"endTime":1856.9,"body":"for instance, him calming storm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1856.93,"endTime":1862.54,"body":"knees, do not be afraid. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1856.93,"endTime":1862.54,"body":"then in other So after Jesus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1863.08,"endTime":1868.09,"body":"raises the daughter, and they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1863.08,"endTime":1868.09,"body":"afraid, and nobody says"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1868.09,"endTime":1871.18,"body":"anything, and it's just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1868.09,"endTime":1871.18,"body":"different kind of fear of fear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1871.18,"endTime":1877.8700000000001,"body":"of, of power. And and so I began"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1871.18,"endTime":1877.8700000000001,"body":"to think about how fear is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1877.8700000000001,"endTime":1880.8700000000001,"body":"actually a necessary attribute"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1877.8700000000001,"endTime":1880.8700000000001,"body":"for us as humans. Now, if you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1881.05,"endTime":1886.09,"body":"setting God out of the equation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1881.05,"endTime":1886.09,"body":"for a moment, it's a bad thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1886.09,"endTime":1889.18,"body":"when people are not afraid"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1886.09,"endTime":1889.18,"body":"enough of certain things. So for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1889.18,"endTime":1894.31,"body":"instance, to be callous, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1889.18,"endTime":1894.31,"body":"sort of nonchalant about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.31,"endTime":1900.94,"body":"ocean, it is, is a mistake, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.31,"endTime":1900.94,"body":"huge mistake. Or about if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1900.94,"endTime":1907.18,"body":"have a terminal illness, or if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1900.94,"endTime":1907.18,"body":"you are with a wild animal, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1907.18,"endTime":1910.15,"body":"you're just sort of cavalier"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1907.18,"endTime":1910.15,"body":"about your bear encounter, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.15,"endTime":1913.51,"body":"was going to be a problem for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.15,"endTime":1913.51,"body":"you. And I began to think about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1913.51,"endTime":1917.8,"body":"how fear is a gift for us in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1913.51,"endTime":1917.8,"body":"recognizing our human"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1917.8,"endTime":1922.57,"body":"limitations, as we face"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1917.8,"endTime":1922.57,"body":"something that is much bigger,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1922.69,"endTime":1928.18,"body":"much more powerful, and, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1922.69,"endTime":1928.18,"body":"often super beautiful in its"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1928.18,"endTime":1932.5,"body":"power and glory, and how that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1928.18,"endTime":1932.5,"body":"even different for us than our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1932.5,"endTime":1936.58,"body":"respect, though, we often try to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1932.5,"endTime":1936.58,"body":"tame the biblical language by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1936.58,"endTime":1940.9,"body":"saying, No, it means our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1936.58,"endTime":1940.9,"body":"respect, but it is very close to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1940.9,"endTime":1943.45,"body":"that. But there's also something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1940.9,"endTime":1943.45,"body":"else there's that moment of I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1943.45,"endTime":1947.08,"body":"tiny and fragile. And I need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1943.45,"endTime":1947.08,"body":"be aware of that. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.08,"endTime":1953.17,"body":"important. And so, in these, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.08,"endTime":1953.17,"body":"these images of Jesus as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1953.17,"endTime":1957.94,"body":"judge, I don't think that we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1953.17,"endTime":1957.94,"body":"called to be terrified of him,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1957.94,"endTime":1963.58,"body":"as you know, in this sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1957.94,"endTime":1963.58,"body":"frenzy of self loathing, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1963.58,"endTime":1967.69,"body":"that, oh, my gosh, he's, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1963.58,"endTime":1967.69,"body":"hates me, or any of those, some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1967.69,"endTime":1972.43,"body":"of the ways that this imagery"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1967.69,"endTime":1972.43,"body":"can go easily, but that we are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.43,"endTime":1977.89,"body":"called to remember, Oh, I am so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.43,"endTime":1977.89,"body":"tiny and small. And he is so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1977.89,"endTime":1982.72,"body":"big, and I don't fully"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1977.89,"endTime":1982.72,"body":"understand him. And the goodness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.72,"endTime":1986.98,"body":"of remembering who I am in that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.72,"endTime":1986.98,"body":"And then at the same time, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1986.98,"endTime":1990.16,"body":"I am held beloved, and closer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1986.98,"endTime":1990.16,"body":"than the skin, I mean, this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1990.16,"endTime":1993.91,"body":"why these images work together,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1990.16,"endTime":1993.91,"body":"is because they're all reminding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1993.91,"endTime":1997.63,"body":"us of different facets that are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1993.91,"endTime":1997.63,"body":"really hard for us to hold at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1997.63,"endTime":2001.29,"body":"once. And it's so hard to hold"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1997.63,"endTime":2001.29,"body":"those things all at once. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2001.77,"endTime":2004.08,"body":"they're, they're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2001.77,"endTime":2004.08,"body":"really hard. So what helps us"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2004.1100000000001,"endTime":2008.76,"body":"start to hold these things? I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2004.1100000000001,"endTime":2008.76,"body":"think, we, in our modern day,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2008.76,"endTime":2012.45,"body":"we're, I think we're we're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2008.76,"endTime":2012.45,"body":"pretty literal people. I know"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2012.45,"endTime":2014.79,"body":"that, you know, here or there,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2012.45,"endTime":2014.79,"body":"they're talking about allegory"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2014.79,"endTime":2019.89,"body":"and metaphor and, and different"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2014.79,"endTime":2019.89,"body":"arts and creativity and things"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2019.89,"endTime":2025.65,"body":"that there's a mystery of what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2019.89,"endTime":2025.65,"body":"this looks like. How can how can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2025.65,"endTime":2030.15,"body":"we start to hold things and shed"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2025.65,"endTime":2030.15,"body":"some of our literal nests? And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2030.15,"endTime":2032.49,"body":"move into mystery? That's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2032.49,"endTime":2037.17,"body":"such a good question. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2032.49,"endTime":2037.17,"body":"think one way that we can do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2037.17,"endTime":2040.02,"body":"that, and this is a very obvious"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2037.17,"endTime":2040.02,"body":"answer. One way that I've done"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2040.02,"endTime":2043.56,"body":"it is by keep on reading these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2040.02,"endTime":2043.56,"body":"people of the past past who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2043.56,"endTime":2046.47,"body":"believe slightly different, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2043.56,"endTime":2046.47,"body":"at least state things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2046.47,"endTime":2050.43,"body":"differently than I do, or the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2046.47,"endTime":2050.43,"body":"new do. So that's one way is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2050.43,"endTime":2053.79,"body":"that if you are CS Lewis calls"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2050.43,"endTime":2053.79,"body":"it the clean sea breeze of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2053.79,"endTime":2056.2799999999997,"body":"century is blowing through your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2053.79,"endTime":2056.2799999999997,"body":"mind. And if you kind of have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2056.2799999999997,"endTime":2062.0699999999997,"body":"this movement of beauty and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2056.2799999999997,"endTime":2062.0699999999997,"body":"wonder and strangeness that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2062.0699999999997,"endTime":2065.73,"body":"sort of, you know, rippling the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2062.0699999999997,"endTime":2065.73,"body":"waters, so to speak, so that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2065.73,"endTime":2069.0,"body":"don't get stuck in the image"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2065.73,"endTime":2069.0,"body":"that you gravitate towards the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2069.0,"endTime":2073.35,"body":"most. I think that's one really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2069.0,"endTime":2073.35,"body":"helpful way. Another thing is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2073.35,"endTime":2077.91,"body":"that I think the church, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2073.35,"endTime":2077.91,"body":"church should embrace the power"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2077.91,"endTime":2081.5099999999998,"body":"of figurative language more and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2077.91,"endTime":2081.5099999999998,"body":"become more comfortable with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2081.81,"endTime":2089.46,"body":"storytelling and parables like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2081.81,"endTime":2089.46,"body":"how Jesus told and we, we, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2089.46,"endTime":2093.63,"body":"you said, we love our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2089.46,"endTime":2093.63,"body":"literality, we love our here are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2093.63,"endTime":2096.81,"body":"the three bullet points that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2093.63,"endTime":2096.81,"body":"take home with you from from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2096.81,"endTime":2099.21,"body":"Sunday service, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2096.81,"endTime":2099.21,"body":"that's good, too, there's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2099.21,"endTime":2103.65,"body":"place for that, that I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2099.21,"endTime":2103.65,"body":"believe in. But then we tend to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2103.65,"endTime":2106.86,"body":"ignore kind of all the weird"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2103.65,"endTime":2106.86,"body":"other stuff, like the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2106.86,"endTime":2110.7,"body":"storytelling that's open ended,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2106.86,"endTime":2110.7,"body":"or the lives of the saints that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2110.7,"endTime":2114.81,"body":"are that are confusing, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2110.7,"endTime":2114.81,"body":"some of it they seem to have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2114.81,"endTime":2118.71,"body":"really right and some of it they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2114.81,"endTime":2118.71,"body":"they seem to be way off base."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2119.52,"endTime":2124.14,"body":"And so the more we can lean into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2119.52,"endTime":2124.14,"body":"those tensions, and I think and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2124.14,"endTime":2128.13,"body":"the the storytelling of that, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2124.14,"endTime":2128.13,"body":"think the more it will help us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2128.13,"endTime":2134.13,"body":"to see fuller pictures of who we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2128.13,"endTime":2134.13,"body":"are and who God is, and, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2134.34,"endTime":2137.64,"body":"this shapes of different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2134.34,"endTime":2137.64,"body":"people's lives than our own."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2138.09,"endTime":2138.54,"body":"Let's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2138.75,"endTime":2142.86,"body":"jump into the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2138.75,"endTime":2142.86,"body":"20th century quickly. And I just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2142.86,"endTime":2148.23,"body":"want to know why as somebody you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2142.86,"endTime":2148.23,"body":"know, as talking is kind of a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2148.32,"endTime":2152.88,"body":"medievalist, he loves the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2148.32,"endTime":2152.88,"body":"medieval era, Lord, is very"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2153.42,"endTime":2158.58,"body":"medieval ask, and I think Lord"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2153.42,"endTime":2158.58,"body":"of the Rings has had a profound"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2158.76,"endTime":2165.33,"body":"impact on our art Thinking our"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2158.76,"endTime":2165.33,"body":"culture. And it has lasted a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2165.33,"endTime":2172.14,"body":"long time. It's lasted a lot"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2165.33,"endTime":2172.14,"body":"more than I think, non middlee,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2172.17,"endTime":2176.97,"body":"middle evilness type of of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2172.17,"endTime":2176.97,"body":"literature. Yeah. Why do you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2176.97,"endTime":2181.02,"body":"think that is? Why do you think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2176.97,"endTime":2181.02,"body":"somebody from a more modern era"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2181.68,"endTime":2187.2,"body":"harkens to the things of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2181.68,"endTime":2187.2,"body":"past, and it actually gives us a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2187.2,"endTime":2191.76,"body":"huge impact and, and makes us"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2187.2,"endTime":2191.76,"body":"think, in ways that we're not"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2191.76,"endTime":2192.18,"body":"used to?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2192.57,"endTime":2195.69,"body":"I think, so you see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2192.57,"endTime":2195.69,"body":"that in Tolkien. And you see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2195.69,"endTime":2199.29,"body":"that and CS Lewis to who is also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2195.69,"endTime":2199.29,"body":"medievalist, they are both"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2199.29,"endTime":2203.91,"body":"medieval lists. And they were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2199.29,"endTime":2203.91,"body":"drawing on all this literature"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2203.91,"endTime":2207.3,"body":"of the past and on the language"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2203.91,"endTime":2207.3,"body":"of the past, in both of their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2207.3,"endTime":2213.09,"body":"great works in the Chronicles of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2207.3,"endTime":2213.09,"body":"Narnia, and in The Lord of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2213.09,"endTime":2216.9900000000002,"body":"Rings, which I which has to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2213.09,"endTime":2216.9900000000002,"body":"totally agree with you has like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2216.9900000000002,"endTime":2221.58,"body":"totally shaped my own life in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2216.9900000000002,"endTime":2221.58,"body":"huge way. I mean, I, I love both"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2221.58,"endTime":2224.52,"body":"of those books, and especially"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2221.58,"endTime":2224.52,"body":"the Lord of the Rings. I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2224.52,"endTime":2230.82,"body":"that I they both spoke at that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2224.52,"endTime":2230.82,"body":"especially talking to I think he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2230.82,"endTime":2236.31,"body":"spoke to and to human experience"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2230.82,"endTime":2236.31,"body":"beyond our own time and place."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2236.79,"endTime":2239.64,"body":"So you read some books, and you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2236.79,"endTime":2239.64,"body":"go, Oh, this was definitely just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2239.64,"endTime":2243.12,"body":"written straight out of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2239.64,"endTime":2243.12,"body":"present moment for people in our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2243.12,"endTime":2246.36,"body":"present moment. There's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2243.12,"endTime":2246.36,"body":"there's not that much feeling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2246.36,"endTime":2250.23,"body":"behind it or before it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2246.36,"endTime":2250.23,"body":"necessarily. And those books can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2250.23,"endTime":2254.22,"body":"be really fun to read. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2250.23,"endTime":2254.22,"body":"somebody like Tolkien, what he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2254.22,"endTime":2259.14,"body":"was doing is that he was looking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2254.22,"endTime":2259.14,"body":"at the past, as, as it speaks to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2259.14,"endTime":2264.81,"body":"us now and then putting it into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2259.14,"endTime":2264.81,"body":"fiction in ways that even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2264.81,"endTime":2268.02,"body":"somebody who had no idea what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2264.81,"endTime":2268.02,"body":"Beowulf was, which was one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2268.02,"endTime":2272.97,"body":"Tolkien's most influential"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2268.02,"endTime":2272.97,"body":"poems, in Old English that he,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2273.0,"endTime":2279.57,"body":"you know, adored and taught"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2273.0,"endTime":2279.57,"body":"about, even if they never had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2279.6,"endTime":2283.47,"body":"encountered or read Beowulf, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2279.6,"endTime":2283.47,"body":"some of the themes of Beowulf"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.8,"endTime":2287.31,"body":"are present in Lord of the Rings"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.8,"endTime":2287.31,"body":"and giving them to an audience"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2287.79,"endTime":2292.77,"body":"in a sort of transformed way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2287.79,"endTime":2292.77,"body":"And bringing in some of those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2292.77,"endTime":2296.88,"body":"elements of the past and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2292.77,"endTime":2296.88,"body":"especially things that speak to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2296.88,"endTime":2299.88,"body":"our sort of universal human"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2296.88,"endTime":2299.88,"body":"experience, rather than just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2299.88,"endTime":2304.38,"body":"being exclusively 20th century"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2299.88,"endTime":2304.38,"body":"post World War Two, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2304.38,"endTime":2307.77,"body":"we're all worried about X y\u0026z"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2304.38,"endTime":2307.77,"body":"Whenever, like, so it has this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2307.8,"endTime":2311.01,"body":"sense of universality, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2307.8,"endTime":2311.01,"body":"it's drawing together ninth"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2311.01,"endTime":2318.9900000000002,"body":"century epic, and 20th century"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2311.01,"endTime":2318.9900000000002,"body":"genre writing and so it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2319.02,"endTime":2324.6,"body":"it really gives us such a gift."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2319.02,"endTime":2324.6,"body":"Because even though it's fiction"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2324.6,"endTime":2328.53,"body":"written in the 20th century, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2324.6,"endTime":2328.53,"body":"draws on all these themes that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2328.53,"endTime":2331.92,"body":"are 1000s of years old, and you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2328.53,"endTime":2331.92,"body":"and I think that's why I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2331.92,"endTime":2335.31,"body":"we sense that as we read, and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2331.92,"endTime":2335.31,"body":"feel the depth there, and it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2335.31,"endTime":2336.84,"body":"feels different to us."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2337.29,"endTime":2341.31,"body":"Yeah. It's very"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2337.29,"endTime":2341.31,"body":"deep. One of the chapters I love"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2341.34,"endTime":2345.48,"body":"to see Jesus as the night a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2341.34,"endTime":2345.48,"body":"night to talk in there are lots"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2345.48,"endTime":2349.98,"body":"of talk in there and in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2345.48,"endTime":2349.98,"body":"night, but at night is such a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2350.13,"endTime":2354.66,"body":"vivid image from the medieval"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2350.13,"endTime":2354.66,"body":"period. What does it look like"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2354.66,"endTime":2358.86,"body":"for Jesus to be a night? I've"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2354.66,"endTime":2358.86,"body":"never thought of Jesus's night"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2358.86,"endTime":2362.79,"body":"before I read your book. So what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2358.86,"endTime":2362.79,"body":"does that look like? How did you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2362.85,"endTime":2366.63,"body":"come across that and what what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2362.85,"endTime":2366.63,"body":"impact did that make in your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2366.63,"endTime":2366.9,"body":"life?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2368.16,"endTime":2370.44,"body":"Yeah, Jesus is a night"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2368.16,"endTime":2370.44,"body":"was such an interesting one."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2370.44,"endTime":2373.59,"body":"Because at first i I'll be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2370.44,"endTime":2373.59,"body":"honest with you, I was a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2373.59,"endTime":2377.25,"body":"resistant to that image, just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2373.59,"endTime":2377.25,"body":"like I was at the judge because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2378.18,"endTime":2382.11,"body":"as a medievalist I associate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2378.18,"endTime":2382.11,"body":"knighthood with, like the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2382.11,"endTime":2388.05,"body":"Crusades, or with, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2382.11,"endTime":2388.05,"body":"Knights, for us today. They are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2388.56,"endTime":2392.28,"body":"a character in like a fairy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2388.56,"endTime":2392.28,"body":"tale, basically. But for people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2392.28,"endTime":2396.06,"body":"back then that was a real social"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2392.28,"endTime":2396.06,"body":"class that was an actual group"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2396.09,"endTime":2401.19,"body":"of people who were wealthy, who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2396.09,"endTime":2401.19,"body":"were the landowners and to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2401.52,"endTime":2405.21,"body":"sometimes did really great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2401.52,"endTime":2405.21,"body":"things for the people they were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2405.21,"endTime":2408.27,"body":"in charge of, and sometimes were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2405.21,"endTime":2408.27,"body":"really corrupt and violent. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2408.27,"endTime":2411.75,"body":"so, it is really interesting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2408.27,"endTime":2411.75,"body":"portraying Jesus as a specific"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.75,"endTime":2419.16,"body":"figure in a social class. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.75,"endTime":2419.16,"body":"what I, how I kind of was able"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2419.16,"endTime":2423.03,"body":"to see the beauty of it is in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2419.16,"endTime":2423.03,"body":"this poem called piers Plowman,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2423.03,"endTime":2426.0,"body":"which is written in the 14th"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2423.03,"endTime":2426.0,"body":"century by this poet named"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.0,"endTime":2431.85,"body":"William Langland. And he, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.0,"endTime":2431.85,"body":"last bit of piers Plowman, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2431.85,"endTime":2437.55,"body":"is a very, very long epic poem,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2431.85,"endTime":2437.55,"body":"sets the events of Holy Week"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.58,"endTime":2444.09,"body":"into an allegory of knighthood."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.58,"endTime":2444.09,"body":"And so Jesus as a knight is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2444.09,"endTime":2450.06,"body":"jousting with the enemy. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2444.09,"endTime":2450.06,"body":"what makes it even weirder and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2450.06,"endTime":2454.86,"body":"more interesting is that Jesus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2450.06,"endTime":2454.86,"body":"is a knight but he's dressed as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2454.86,"endTime":2458.61,"body":"a ploughman, and so languid is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2454.86,"endTime":2458.61,"body":"just taking all of these social"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2458.61,"endTime":2462.45,"body":"stereotypes and of course"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2458.61,"endTime":2462.45,"body":"Plowman. We're peasantry and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.45,"endTime":2467.4900000000002,"body":"mean, they were a night in in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.45,"endTime":2467.4900000000002,"body":"the middle ages would have never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2467.4900000000002,"endTime":2470.55,"body":"wanted to dress as a fireman"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2467.4900000000002,"endTime":2470.55,"body":"because they were a much lower"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2470.55,"endTime":2474.12,"body":"social class and much less"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2470.55,"endTime":2474.12,"body":"powerful than knights were. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2474.12,"endTime":2477.9,"body":"so langeland is actually writing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2474.12,"endTime":2477.9,"body":"a picture of the humility of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2477.9,"endTime":2480.81,"body":"Incarnation in the in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2477.9,"endTime":2480.81,"body":"universality of the Incarnation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2480.84,"endTime":2484.86,"body":"in this night turns Plowman"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2480.84,"endTime":2484.86,"body":"who's still jousting and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2484.86,"endTime":2490.05,"body":"fighting our enemies. And it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2484.86,"endTime":2490.05,"body":"just, he calls him the Barefoot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2490.05,"endTime":2496.26,"body":"Knight. And and then in another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2490.05,"endTime":2496.26,"body":"Middle English poem, we see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2496.41,"endTime":2500.4900000000002,"body":"Jesus saying, I am Jesus come to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2496.41,"endTime":2500.4900000000002,"body":"fight without and shield or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2500.4900000000002,"endTime":2506.55,"body":"spear. And that gives that same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2500.4900000000002,"endTime":2506.55,"body":"idea of this image of courage"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2506.55,"endTime":2510.36,"body":"and fortitude, and endurance and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2506.55,"endTime":2510.36,"body":"bravery, but it doesn't come in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2510.36,"endTime":2514.95,"body":"the forms we expect it to. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2510.36,"endTime":2514.95,"body":"really, really love that."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2516.36,"endTime":2518.94,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2516.36,"endTime":2518.94,"body":"amazing that you found found"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2518.94,"endTime":2522.42,"body":"something that we could take a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2518.94,"endTime":2522.42,"body":"hold of the what does it look"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2522.42,"endTime":2528.78,"body":"like to be a powerful fighter"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2522.42,"endTime":2528.78,"body":"like Jesus, and fight for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2528.78,"endTime":2535.56,"body":"justice, and which is opposite"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2528.78,"endTime":2535.56,"body":"of the Crusades, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2535.59,"endTime":2538.98,"body":"Crusades created so much damage"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2535.59,"endTime":2538.98,"body":"around the world."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2539.34,"endTime":2541.86,"body":"And we're still dealing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2539.34,"endTime":2541.86,"body":"with the fallout of that,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2542.4,"endTime":2546.0,"body":"dealing with the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2542.4,"endTime":2546.0,"body":"fallout. 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It was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2561.93,"endTime":2564.6,"body":"horrible. Sorry,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2564.69,"endTime":2568.89,"body":"I know. It's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2564.69,"endTime":2568.89,"body":"really bad. So it's such a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2568.89,"endTime":2572.28,"body":"relief to see Jesus coming in,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2568.89,"endTime":2572.28,"body":"like there is a place of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2572.28,"endTime":2578.52,"body":"justice. And knowing that they"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2572.28,"endTime":2578.52,"body":"are the people, artists are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2578.52,"endTime":2583.62,"body":"critical of what was happening"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2578.52,"endTime":2583.62,"body":"at that time, as well. And it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2583.62,"endTime":2590.4,"body":"wasn't just I'm gonna give into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2583.62,"endTime":2590.4,"body":"this horrific barbaric barbarian"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2590.4,"endTime":2595.29,"body":"killing of and massacring of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2590.4,"endTime":2595.29,"body":"people. But I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2595.29,"endTime":2598.44,"body":"actually say, Jesus calls us to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2595.29,"endTime":2598.44,"body":"a different way and a better"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2598.44,"endTime":2603.2400000000002,"body":"way. And he's the, he's the plow"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2598.44,"endTime":2603.2400000000002,"body":"man. And it's, it's pretty"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2603.2400000000002,"endTime":2605.82,"body":"incredible to be able to see now"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2603.2400000000002,"endTime":2605.82,"body":"it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2605.82,"endTime":2608.4,"body":"unbelievable that he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2605.82,"endTime":2608.4,"body":"that Liang Lin comes up with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2608.4,"endTime":2612.9,"body":"this elaborate sort of allegory"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2608.4,"endTime":2612.9,"body":"on allegory. I mean, it's, it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2612.9,"endTime":2617.73,"body":"of just a wonderfully weird and,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2612.9,"endTime":2617.73,"body":"and beautiful poem. And then and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2617.73,"endTime":2622.17,"body":"then this, and you really begin"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2617.73,"endTime":2622.17,"body":"to see its its resonances, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2622.17,"endTime":2625.08,"body":"you think of, for me, as I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2622.17,"endTime":2625.08,"body":"reading it, I'm thinking of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2625.08,"endTime":2628.29,"body":"lives of like, of like Martin"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2625.08,"endTime":2628.29,"body":"Luther King Jr, of somebody who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2628.29,"endTime":2631.83,"body":"was a genuine fighter for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2628.29,"endTime":2631.83,"body":"justice, but who was so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2631.83,"endTime":2635.73,"body":"committed to non violence into a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2631.83,"endTime":2635.73,"body":"different kind of fighting than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2635.73,"endTime":2641.13,"body":"what we had seen before. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2635.73,"endTime":2641.13,"body":"it just is so true to the to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2641.13,"endTime":2645.27,"body":"character of Christ. And in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2641.13,"endTime":2645.27,"body":"way that is encouraging."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2646.35,"endTime":2649.14,"body":"Is there any,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2646.35,"endTime":2649.14,"body":"any other other chapter or"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2649.14,"endTime":2652.83,"body":"anything, any aspect of Jesus"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2649.14,"endTime":2652.83,"body":"that you you wrote that really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2652.83,"endTime":2656.58,"body":"impacted you? And you you really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2652.83,"endTime":2656.58,"body":"love that we haven't mentioned"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2656.58,"endTime":2656.76,"body":"yet?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2658.68,"endTime":2664.89,"body":"Oh, I don't, I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2658.68,"endTime":2664.89,"body":"know. You've really hit on a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2664.89,"endTime":2669.15,"body":"of the high points for me. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2664.89,"endTime":2669.15,"body":"would say, the other thing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2669.2400000000002,"endTime":2674.19,"body":"medieval people have helped me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2669.2400000000002,"endTime":2674.19,"body":"see, is the temptation to think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2674.19,"endTime":2678.9,"body":"you're right all the time. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2674.19,"endTime":2678.9,"body":"we all have that in every area"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2678.9,"endTime":2682.5,"body":"of the church. And it's easier"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2678.9,"endTime":2682.5,"body":"to see it in someone else's time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2682.5,"endTime":2685.26,"body":"period. So I have a chapter"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2682.5,"endTime":2685.26,"body":"called Jesus, the good medieval"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2685.26,"endTime":2690.93,"body":"Christian, where Jesus is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2685.26,"endTime":2690.93,"body":"written as if he's in their own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2690.96,"endTime":2695.52,"body":"culture and in you know, just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2690.96,"endTime":2695.52,"body":"fitting seamlessly, right in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2695.52,"endTime":2697.86,"body":"with the kinds of ideals and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2695.52,"endTime":2697.86,"body":"beliefs that the medieval church"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2697.86,"endTime":2701.88,"body":"held. And for us, we read that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2697.86,"endTime":2701.88,"body":"and go, that seems obviously"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2701.88,"endTime":2706.32,"body":"wrong. But we're doing the same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2701.88,"endTime":2706.32,"body":"thing. And just the that is such"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2706.32,"endTime":2709.95,"body":"a genuinely important exercise"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2706.32,"endTime":2709.95,"body":"and something that I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2709.95,"endTime":2713.37,"body":"thought about a lot since since"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2709.95,"endTime":2713.37,"body":"doing that research and writing."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2714.21,"endTime":2717.0,"body":"So how do we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2714.21,"endTime":2717.0,"body":"engage in that exercise, then"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2717.0,"endTime":2723.21,"body":"and realize that today, we may"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2717.0,"endTime":2723.21,"body":"be making a lot of mistakes, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2723.33,"endTime":2728.25,"body":"but we think that we have, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2723.33,"endTime":2728.25,"body":"know, to be honest, I think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2728.64,"endTime":2733.23,"body":"we're like, hey, we have 1000s"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2728.64,"endTime":2733.23,"body":"of years of learning, on top of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2733.23,"endTime":2735.9,"body":"learning on top of learning, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2733.23,"endTime":2735.9,"body":"we were at the top of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2735.9,"endTime":2741.72,"body":"mountain, right, where were the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2735.9,"endTime":2741.72,"body":"pinnacle of AI? That's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2741.72,"endTime":2746.4900000000002,"body":"hubris, and you know, great is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2741.72,"endTime":2746.4900000000002,"body":"the fall of the humble is going"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2746.4900000000002,"endTime":2750.84,"body":"to engage in that. Yes. So how"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2746.4900000000002,"endTime":2750.84,"body":"can we engage in a place of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2750.84,"endTime":2755.31,"body":"saying, we may not have all the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2750.84,"endTime":2755.31,"body":"right answers and we can learn"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2755.31,"endTime":2760.68,"body":"from the people of the past and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2755.31,"endTime":2760.68,"body":"we need to move into a new"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2760.68,"endTime":2765.27,"body":"direction. Shinsen not just put"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2760.68,"endTime":2765.27,"body":"Jesus, or like, put a box on"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2765.27,"endTime":2766.86,"body":"Jesus said, This is who he is."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2768.0,"endTime":2772.7400000000002,"body":"Yeah, I think I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2768.0,"endTime":2772.7400000000002,"body":"there's not an easy answer to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2772.7400000000002,"endTime":2776.64,"body":"that question. And I think a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2772.7400000000002,"endTime":2776.64,"body":"of it is in the, the actual,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2776.64,"endTime":2781.08,"body":"just literal, boring old"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2776.64,"endTime":2781.08,"body":"practice of whenever you are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2781.08,"endTime":2784.14,"body":"coming up against something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2781.08,"endTime":2784.14,"body":"is really different than you are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2784.14,"endTime":2787.62,"body":"really challenging a belief or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2784.14,"endTime":2787.62,"body":"an expectation of yours, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2787.62,"endTime":2791.76,"body":"you have to hold that intention"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2787.62,"endTime":2791.76,"body":"and say, I probably don't know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2791.76,"endTime":2796.44,"body":"the complexities of this. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2791.76,"endTime":2796.44,"body":"that sounds so weird and basic,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2796.47,"endTime":2803.46,"body":"but I'm thinking of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2796.47,"endTime":2803.46,"body":"listening to people who are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2803.46,"endTime":2806.52,"body":"really different than you and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2803.46,"endTime":2806.52,"body":"who believe different things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.52,"endTime":2810.36,"body":"than you. And even when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.52,"endTime":2810.36,"body":"don't like what they're saying,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2810.39,"endTime":2816.21,"body":"and just trying to give it space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2810.39,"endTime":2816.21,"body":"enough to challenge what you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2816.51,"endTime":2819.87,"body":"believe. And I think sometimes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2816.51,"endTime":2819.87,"body":"we're really afraid to do that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2819.87,"endTime":2824.16,"body":"because we're afraid it's going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2819.87,"endTime":2824.16,"body":"to challenge our faith or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2824.16,"endTime":2828.6,"body":"challenge our orthodoxy or, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2824.16,"endTime":2828.6,"body":"something like whatever we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2828.63,"endTime":2833.28,"body":"holding on too tight. But if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2828.63,"endTime":2833.28,"body":"Jesus is saying, I am the Way,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2833.28,"endTime":2837.2400000000002,"body":"the Truth and the Life, which he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2833.28,"endTime":2837.2400000000002,"body":"he is, we don't have to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2837.2400000000002,"endTime":2842.31,"body":"afraid of truths, challenging us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2837.2400000000002,"endTime":2842.31,"body":"and showing us where we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2842.31,"endTime":2846.6,"body":"been wrong, that there will be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2842.31,"endTime":2846.6,"body":"graciousness in it for us that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2846.6,"endTime":2852.72,"body":"we won't, that won't be foreseen"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2846.6,"endTime":2852.72,"body":"basically. And to keep reading"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2852.72,"endTime":2855.27,"body":"the books of the past, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2852.72,"endTime":2855.27,"body":"is a huge part of that, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2855.27,"endTime":2858.9900000000002,"body":"you just see these things that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2855.27,"endTime":2858.9900000000002,"body":"they were so convinced of. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2858.9900000000002,"endTime":2862.95,"body":"so you go, Okay, well, I'm, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2858.9900000000002,"endTime":2862.95,"body":"have this X thing that I am just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2863.01,"endTime":2868.14,"body":"so convinced of, and I still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2863.01,"endTime":2868.14,"body":"have to be careful, I have to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2868.29,"endTime":2871.56,"body":"I have to hold and this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2868.29,"endTime":2871.56,"body":"where, you know, the judge comes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2871.56,"endTime":2874.5,"body":"back in where you're like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2871.56,"endTime":2874.5,"body":"just one little person. And that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2874.5,"endTime":2878.61,"body":"doesn't change, even though my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2874.5,"endTime":2878.61,"body":"culture might have discovered x."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2878.61,"endTime":2882.48,"body":"And we might be doing AI and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2878.61,"endTime":2882.48,"body":"might be you know, more advanced"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2882.48,"endTime":2886.71,"body":"than any other bla bla bla. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2882.48,"endTime":2886.71,"body":"what it boils down to is me in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2886.71,"endTime":2891.54,"body":"my body, in my mind, in my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2886.71,"endTime":2891.54,"body":"heart, I am just me and I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2891.54,"endTime":2894.3,"body":"small, and that's not a bad"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2891.54,"endTime":2894.3,"body":"thing. That's a really good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2894.3,"endTime":2896.88,"body":"thing. The Lord made me that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2894.3,"endTime":2896.88,"body":"way. I don't need to be afraid"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2896.88,"endTime":2903.9,"body":"of that. But I also then have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2896.88,"endTime":2903.9,"body":"hold it and not, not get cocky."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2906.0,"endTime":2909.06,"body":"That's good."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2906.0,"endTime":2909.06,"body":"Grace. No, I have a couple"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2909.06,"endTime":2912.84,"body":"questions. The end one, if you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2909.06,"endTime":2912.84,"body":"could go back to your 21 year"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2912.84,"endTime":2914.34,"body":"old self, what advice would you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2912.84,"endTime":2914.34,"body":"give?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2915.27,"endTime":2922.7400000000002,"body":"Oh my gosh, okay. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2915.27,"endTime":2922.7400000000002,"body":"think that I would say, don't be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2922.7400000000002,"endTime":2930.36,"body":"afraid, um, and just keep"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2922.7400000000002,"endTime":2930.36,"body":"following the strange threads"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2930.36,"endTime":2934.53,"body":"that you're interested in. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2930.36,"endTime":2934.53,"body":"did do that. But there was a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2934.53,"endTime":2938.01,"body":"of fear and some embarrassment"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2934.53,"endTime":2938.01,"body":"wrapped up in it, I was doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2938.01,"endTime":2942.33,"body":"something that was not very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2938.01,"endTime":2942.33,"body":"practical at all. And that, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2942.33,"endTime":2947.76,"body":"know, wasn't gonna lead to, to a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2942.33,"endTime":2947.76,"body":"lot of lucrative career paths"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2947.76,"endTime":2950.28,"body":"for me or anything like that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2947.76,"endTime":2950.28,"body":"And I felt embarrassed of it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2950.28,"endTime":2953.85,"body":"And on the other end of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2950.28,"endTime":2953.85,"body":"spectrum, like I wasn't doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2953.85,"endTime":2956.91,"body":"something that felt immediately"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2953.85,"endTime":2956.91,"body":"useful to the church. So I felt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2956.91,"endTime":2960.87,"body":"really guilty about that, too."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2956.91,"endTime":2960.87,"body":"And so seeing this, this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2960.87,"endTime":2963.9,"body":"going to bring fruit that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2960.87,"endTime":2963.9,"body":"don't know and you just have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2963.9,"endTime":2969.36,"body":"keep, just keep following those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2963.9,"endTime":2969.36,"body":"weird things. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2969.36,"endTime":2972.2400000000002,"body":"what I would say to myself don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2969.36,"endTime":2972.2400000000002,"body":"have fear about that. The Lord"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2972.2400000000002,"endTime":2976.26,"body":"has given you these these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2972.2400000000002,"endTime":2976.26,"body":"curiosities. That's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2976.26,"endTime":2978.0,"body":"really good"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2976.26,"endTime":2978.0,"body":"advice. Keep following the weird"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2978.0,"endTime":2978.57,"body":"things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2981.48,"endTime":2985.47,"body":"that ends up really, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2981.48,"endTime":2985.47,"body":"a humble way not and like I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2985.47,"endTime":2986.55,"body":"don't know, but yeah."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2988.23,"endTime":2990.72,"body":"I agree. I think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2988.23,"endTime":2990.72,"body":"that's great. Really good"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2990.72,"endTime":2994.02,"body":"advice. Have you read anything"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2990.72,"endTime":2994.02,"body":"lately or watching anything"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2994.02,"endTime":2995.37,"body":"lately Greg recommend?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2996.36,"endTime":3000.26,"body":"Oh, good question."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2996.36,"endTime":3000.26,"body":"That's such a such a big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3000.26,"endTime":3003.77,"body":"question because I'm honestly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3000.26,"endTime":3003.77,"body":"constantly reading and so it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3003.77,"endTime":3007.43,"body":"it's an endless that's like my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3003.77,"endTime":3007.43,"body":"favorite thing in the world to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3007.46,"endTime":3012.89,"body":"do. I would say I've been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3007.46,"endTime":3012.89,"body":"revisiting. Sorry to just keep"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3012.89,"endTime":3016.46,"body":"going back to the past, but I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3012.89,"endTime":3016.46,"body":"been revisiting the works of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3017.0,"endTime":3019.97,"body":"metaphysical poet and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3017.0,"endTime":3019.97,"body":"theologian, Thomas tre her and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3019.97,"endTime":3026.66,"body":"lately he was a 17th century"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3019.97,"endTime":3026.66,"body":"Anglican cleric and he has these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3027.47,"endTime":3035.66,"body":"these beautiful Thanksgivings."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3027.47,"endTime":3035.66,"body":"And these wonderful poems that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3035.66,"endTime":3042.17,"body":"are just absolutely charged with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3035.66,"endTime":3042.17,"body":"gratitude for creation, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3042.17,"endTime":3047.57,"body":"have been so delighted by them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3042.17,"endTime":3047.57,"body":"I mean, you could just hear his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3047.57,"endTime":3050.33,"body":"delight and delight is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3047.57,"endTime":3050.33,"body":"contagious when you're reading"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3050.33,"endTime":3054.23,"body":"someone who's delighted in what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3050.33,"endTime":3054.23,"body":"they are encountering. You're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3054.23,"endTime":3058.19,"body":"delighted, you know, and so,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3054.23,"endTime":3058.19,"body":"that's one thing, something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3058.19,"endTime":3064.31,"body":"is way less serious and more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3058.19,"endTime":3064.31,"body":"Modern Day is that I, my husband"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3064.31,"endTime":3068.3,"body":"and I have been watching only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3064.31,"endTime":3068.3,"body":"murders in the building on Hulu,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3068.45,"endTime":3072.47,"body":"which has been a very light. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3068.45,"endTime":3072.47,"body":"mean, it's not like it's about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3072.47,"endTime":3075.5,"body":"murders, obviously. But like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3072.47,"endTime":3075.5,"body":"it's murder mystery. And it has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3075.5,"endTime":3077.72,"body":"just been a really nice"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3075.5,"endTime":3077.72,"body":"counterbalance. It's not like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3077.72,"endTime":3080.45,"body":"the most amazing show I've ever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3077.72,"endTime":3080.45,"body":"watched or anything like that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3080.87,"endTime":3085.1,"body":"But a nice little counterbalance"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3080.87,"endTime":3085.1,"body":"to some of the seriousness of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3085.13,"endTime":3088.73,"body":"daily life. So that's, that's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3085.13,"endTime":3088.73,"body":"fun one. So you have a more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3088.73,"endTime":3090.53,"body":"serious one and a fun one."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3090.56,"endTime":3092.48,"body":"That's good. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3090.56,"endTime":3092.48,"body":"love only murders in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3092.48,"endTime":3096.14,"body":"building as it's as light as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3092.48,"endTime":3096.14,"body":"murder can be."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3096.5,"endTime":3097.34,"body":"Yeah, that's right."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3100.22,"endTime":3101.9900000000002,"body":"It's got, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3100.22,"endTime":3101.9900000000002,"body":"know, Grace, I loved your book,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3101.9900000000002,"endTime":3107.09,"body":"Jesus through medieval eyes, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3101.9900000000002,"endTime":3107.09,"body":"was captivated by it by actually"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3107.09,"endTime":3112.07,"body":"stepping back in time, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3107.09,"endTime":3112.07,"body":"seeing Jesus through other"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3112.07,"endTime":3115.7,"body":"people's eyes and saying that he"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3112.07,"endTime":3115.7,"body":"can encounter me these this way"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3115.7,"endTime":3119.84,"body":"and and you could encounter me"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3115.7,"endTime":3119.84,"body":"as mother as night. As Judge, he"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3119.84,"endTime":3124.52,"body":"could encounter me as, as all of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3119.84,"endTime":3124.52,"body":"these things, I really, really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3124.52,"endTime":3128.06,"body":"appreciated it and I hope that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3124.52,"endTime":3128.06,"body":"people go out, they read it,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3128.36,"endTime":3133.19,"body":"they get it and it gets them"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3128.36,"endTime":3133.19,"body":"interested in reading more, more"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3133.19,"endTime":3137.18,"body":"theologians and and, and war."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3133.19,"endTime":3137.18,"body":"People who have written"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3137.2400000000002,"endTime":3141.14,"body":"literature in the medieval"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3137.2400000000002,"endTime":3141.14,"body":"period so that they could have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3141.14,"endTime":3145.7,"body":"their their minds opened up and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3141.14,"endTime":3145.7,"body":"expanded, and we can start to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3145.7,"endTime":3151.76,"body":"learn from from our past, and we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3145.7,"endTime":3151.76,"body":"can move forward. How can people"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3151.91,"endTime":3154.73,"body":"go out and get your book? I'm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3151.91,"endTime":3154.73,"body":"sure it's available anywhere."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3154.73,"endTime":3158.27,"body":"But where would you like to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3154.73,"endTime":3158.27,"body":"point people to? And how can you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3158.3,"endTime":3161.63,"body":"how can people connect with you?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3158.3,"endTime":3161.63,"body":"Where would you like to point"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3161.63,"endTime":3162.17,"body":"people to?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3162.83,"endTime":3166.07,"body":"Oh, great. So you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3162.83,"endTime":3166.07,"body":"get the book anywhere that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3166.07,"endTime":3168.92,"body":"liked, buy your books,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3166.07,"endTime":3168.92,"body":"obviously, I got to put in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3168.92,"endTime":3172.79,"body":"plug for your local bookseller."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3168.92,"endTime":3172.79,"body":"If you have a local bookstore"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3172.79,"endTime":3175.37,"body":"that you like, you can either"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3172.79,"endTime":3175.37,"body":"see if it's on their shelves, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3175.37,"endTime":3178.04,"body":"you can order it from them. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3175.37,"endTime":3178.04,"body":"it is also of course, available"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3178.04,"endTime":3182.6,"body":"on Amazon. And I actually saw it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3178.04,"endTime":3182.6,"body":"at Barnes and Noble the other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3182.63,"endTime":3184.85,"body":"yesterday that was very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3182.63,"endTime":3184.85,"body":"exciting. For me, that was my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3184.85,"endTime":3188.75,"body":"first time seeing it out in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3184.85,"endTime":3188.75,"body":"wild and it was thrilling. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3189.08,"endTime":3192.29,"body":"yeah, you can you can get at any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3189.08,"endTime":3192.29,"body":"of those places. And then, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3192.29,"endTime":3196.37,"body":"far as finding me online, I'm on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3192.29,"endTime":3196.37,"body":"Instagram at old books with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3196.37,"endTime":3201.17,"body":"Grace, I'm on what was formerly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3196.37,"endTime":3201.17,"body":"called Twitter, at Grace"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3201.17,"endTime":3207.2,"body":"Hammond, PhD, and probably the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3201.17,"endTime":3207.2,"body":"most, the two more fun places to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3207.2,"endTime":3210.68,"body":"find what I'm up to is I have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3207.2,"endTime":3210.68,"body":"substack newsletter that comes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3210.68,"endTime":3215.18,"body":"out once a month on different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3210.68,"endTime":3215.18,"body":"medieval and medieval adjacent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3215.18,"endTime":3218.78,"body":"and literature of the past"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3215.18,"endTime":3218.78,"body":"topics. And it's called medieval"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3218.78,"endTime":3221.18,"body":"ish with Grace Hamon. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3218.78,"endTime":3221.18,"body":"that's, that's one of my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3221.18,"endTime":3225.11,"body":"favorite things to do. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3221.18,"endTime":3225.11,"body":"I have a podcast called old"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3225.11,"endTime":3228.11,"body":"books with grace. That is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3225.11,"endTime":3228.11,"body":"literally what the title says, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3228.11,"endTime":3230.96,"body":"have different guests come on to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3228.11,"endTime":3230.96,"body":"talk about old books of me and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3230.96,"endTime":3234.26,"body":"it's really fun. So those are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3230.96,"endTime":3234.26,"body":"all the places. That's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3234.26,"endTime":3237.23,"body":"great. I have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3234.26,"endTime":3237.23,"body":"listened to old books with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3237.23,"endTime":3241.79,"body":"grace, and I've really enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3237.23,"endTime":3241.79,"body":"it. So I recommend people go out"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3241.79,"endTime":3245.18,"body":"and check out your podcast. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3241.79,"endTime":3245.18,"body":"Dave described yourself sack and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3245.18,"endTime":3248.75,"body":"then go out and get Jesus"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3245.18,"endTime":3248.75,"body":"through medieval eyes. So Grace,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3248.75,"endTime":3250.61,"body":"thank you so much for this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3248.75,"endTime":3250.61,"body":"conversation. It was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3250.61,"endTime":3254.57,"body":"illuminating. Enlightening, it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3250.61,"endTime":3254.57,"body":"was a lot of fun. And so thank"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3254.57,"endTime":3255.38,"body":"you so much."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3255.71,"endTime":3258.56,"body":"Oh, thank you for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3255.71,"endTime":3258.56,"body":"having me on. I truly appreciate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3258.56,"endTime":3258.86,"body":"it."}]}