{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.19,"body":"I think ultimately"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.19,"body":"the benediction that I really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2.19,"endTime":6.6,"body":"want is for people to to know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2.19,"endTime":6.6,"body":"that they're not alone. And to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":6.6,"endTime":10.14,"body":"begin to notice and understand"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":6.6,"endTime":10.14,"body":"and see the invitations of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":10.14,"endTime":13.29,"body":"Spirit that exists not in spite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":10.14,"endTime":13.29,"body":"of where they have landed"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":13.32,"endTime":16.5,"body":"because of their questions or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":13.32,"endTime":16.5,"body":"doubts or their experiences, but"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":16.5,"endTime":19.44,"body":"precisely because of it. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":16.5,"endTime":19.44,"body":"that the love of God is the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":19.44,"endTime":21.96,"body":"thing that is carrying you and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":19.44,"endTime":21.96,"body":"holding you and is the abundant"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":21.96,"endTime":24.39,"body":"life that you've been looking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":21.96,"endTime":24.39,"body":"for all along that it's already"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":24.39,"endTime":29.49,"body":"here. I think it's hard to be a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":24.39,"endTime":29.49,"body":"person. And I think it's hard to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":29.49,"endTime":34.2,"body":"move through the world and all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":29.49,"endTime":34.2,"body":"of us carry our own wounds and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":34.2,"endTime":39.42,"body":"bruises and hurts along the way."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":34.2,"endTime":39.42,"body":"And so finding a way to be able"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":39.42,"endTime":43.11,"body":"to be even just one voice in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":39.42,"endTime":43.11,"body":"their ear that saying, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":43.11,"endTime":47.88,"body":"afraid. And you are very loved."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":43.11,"endTime":47.88,"body":"And you're on the right track."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":61.44,"endTime":63.18,"body":"Hello, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":61.44,"endTime":63.18,"body":"welcome to the shifting culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":63.18,"endTime":65.28,"body":"podcast in which we have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":63.18,"endTime":65.28,"body":"conversations about the culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":65.28,"endTime":68.76,"body":"we create, and the impact we can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":65.28,"endTime":68.76,"body":"make. We longed to see the body"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":68.76,"endTime":73.59,"body":"of Christ look like Jesus. I'm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":68.76,"endTime":73.59,"body":"your host, Joshua Johnson. Go to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":73.59,"endTime":77.13,"body":"shifting culture podcast.com To"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":73.59,"endTime":77.13,"body":"interact to donate. And don't"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":77.13,"endTime":79.53,"body":"forget to hit the Follow button"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":77.13,"endTime":79.53,"body":"on your favorite podcast app to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":79.53,"endTime":83.94,"body":"be notified when new episodes"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":79.53,"endTime":83.94,"body":"come out each week, and go leave"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":83.97,"endTime":88.14,"body":"a rating and review. It's easy."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":83.97,"endTime":88.14,"body":"It only takes a second and helps"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":88.14,"endTime":90.87,"body":"us find new listeners to the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":88.14,"endTime":90.87,"body":"show. Just go to the Show page"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":90.87,"endTime":94.59,"body":"on the app that you're using"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":90.87,"endTime":94.59,"body":"right now and hit five stars. It"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":94.59,"endTime":98.76,"body":"really is that easy. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":94.59,"endTime":98.76,"body":"so much. You know what else"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":98.76,"endTime":101.31,"body":"would help us out? share this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":98.76,"endTime":101.31,"body":"podcast with your friends,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":101.31,"endTime":104.94,"body":"family, your network, tell them"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":101.31,"endTime":104.94,"body":"how much you enjoy it and let"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":104.94,"endTime":108.54,"body":"them know that they should be"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":104.94,"endTime":108.54,"body":"listening as well. If you're new"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":108.54,"endTime":111.99,"body":"here, welcome. If you want to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":108.54,"endTime":111.99,"body":"dig deeper find us on social"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":111.99,"endTime":115.17,"body":"media at shifting culture"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":111.99,"endTime":115.17,"body":"podcast, where I post video"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":115.17,"endTime":119.22,"body":"clips and quotes and interact"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":115.17,"endTime":119.22,"body":"with all of you. Previous guests"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":119.22,"endTime":122.88,"body":"on the show have included Amber"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":119.22,"endTime":122.88,"body":"C Haynes, Kayla Craig and Scot"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":122.88,"endTime":127.02,"body":"McKnight. You can go back listen"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":122.88,"endTime":127.02,"body":"to those episodes and more. But"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":127.02,"endTime":131.25,"body":"today's guest is Sarah Bessie."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":127.02,"endTime":131.25,"body":"Sarah Bessie is the author or"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":131.25,"endTime":134.46,"body":"editor of five books, including"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":131.25,"endTime":134.46,"body":"The New York Times bestseller of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":134.46,"endTime":138.15,"body":"rhythm of prayer. She also leads"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":134.46,"endTime":138.15,"body":"evolving faith, a conference, an"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":138.15,"endTime":141.69,"body":"online community for people who"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":138.15,"endTime":141.69,"body":"are reimagining their faith with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":141.69,"endTime":145.8,"body":"hope. Bets. He lives in Calgary,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":141.69,"endTime":145.8,"body":"Alberta, Canada, with her"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":145.8,"endTime":149.79,"body":"husband, and their four"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":145.8,"endTime":149.79,"body":"children. Sarah's latest book is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":149.79,"endTime":153.75,"body":"Field Notes for the wilderness,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":149.79,"endTime":153.75,"body":"and telling you that it's my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":153.75,"endTime":158.82,"body":"favorite book I've ever read is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":153.75,"endTime":158.82,"body":"no exaggeration. I love this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":158.85,"endTime":162.45,"body":"book. It's full of grace and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":158.85,"endTime":162.45,"body":"love and welcome. I could go on"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":162.45,"endTime":166.8,"body":"and on. But you need to get it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":162.45,"endTime":166.8,"body":"like right now. And then pull up"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":166.8,"endTime":170.31,"body":"a chair in front of the fire"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":166.8,"endTime":170.31,"body":"with a warm cup and go deep into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":170.31,"endTime":174.33,"body":"the beauty and wonder of Sarah's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":170.31,"endTime":174.33,"body":"writing. But before you do that,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":174.36,"endTime":178.47,"body":"you get to listen to this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":174.36,"endTime":178.47,"body":"wonderful conversation. Sara and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":178.47,"endTime":182.34,"body":"I talked about practices for an"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":178.47,"endTime":182.34,"body":"evolving faith. We talk wonder"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":182.37,"endTime":185.91,"body":"and amazement in the every day"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":182.37,"endTime":185.91,"body":"falling deeper into the love of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":185.91,"endTime":189.66,"body":"God that there is nowhere we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":185.91,"endTime":189.66,"body":"could go where God's love cannot"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":189.66,"endTime":194.46,"body":"find us. We talk smallness and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":189.66,"endTime":194.46,"body":"goodness about sharing the truth"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":194.79,"endTime":198.06,"body":"is not an excuse to forget the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":194.79,"endTime":198.06,"body":"fruit of the Spirit. We talked"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":198.06,"endTime":201.93,"body":"about unlearning paradigm shifts"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":198.06,"endTime":201.93,"body":"and relearning new ways, and the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":201.93,"endTime":206.16,"body":"difference between peacemaking"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":201.93,"endTime":206.16,"body":"and peacekeeping. Ultimately, we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":206.16,"endTime":209.73,"body":"talked about not being alone."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":206.16,"endTime":209.73,"body":"There is community in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":209.73,"endTime":214.62,"body":"wilderness. And there's God's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":209.73,"endTime":214.62,"body":"love in the wilderness. So join"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":214.62,"endTime":219.57,"body":"us as we navigate the wilderness"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":214.62,"endTime":219.57,"body":"of an involving faith. Here's my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":219.57,"endTime":224.7,"body":"conversation with Sarah Bessie."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":219.57,"endTime":224.7,"body":"Sarah, welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":224.7,"endTime":226.89,"body":"Thanks for joining me on"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":224.7,"endTime":226.89,"body":"shifting culture. Really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":226.89,"endTime":227.52,"body":"appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":228.0,"endTime":229.59,"body":"Oh, I'm so happy"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":228.0,"endTime":229.59,"body":"to be here. Thanks for the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":229.59,"endTime":230.19,"body":"invitation."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":230.55,"endTime":233.22,"body":"I spent a few"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":230.55,"endTime":233.22,"body":"summers up in the Calgary area"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":233.28,"endTime":238.56,"body":"was actually up in Red Deer."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":233.28,"endTime":238.56,"body":"Really? coach basketball? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":238.56,"endTime":240.3,"body":"I know. Anybody"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":240.3,"endTime":242.91,"body":"who knows where I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":240.3,"endTime":242.91,"body":"am, we're ready. We're at Red"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":242.91,"endTime":245.1,"body":"Deer. That's that's legit. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":245.13,"endTime":247.32,"body":"And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":245.13,"endTime":247.32,"body":"we were we were coaching"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":247.32,"endTime":250.32,"body":"basketball outside on outdoor"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":247.32,"endTime":250.32,"body":"basketball courts in the middle"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":250.32,"endTime":254.49,"body":"of June. It was the end of June"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":250.32,"endTime":254.49,"body":"and it started snowing. Like"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":254.52,"endTime":257.16,"body":"it's not supposed to snow at the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":254.52,"endTime":257.16,"body":"end of June. We"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":257.16,"endTime":262.83,"body":"do call it June,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":257.16,"endTime":262.83,"body":"January. And it's like a little"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":262.83,"endTime":264.39,"body":"bit of snow just to keep you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":262.83,"endTime":264.39,"body":"humble."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":265.44,"endTime":267.33,"body":"How are you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":265.44,"endTime":267.33,"body":"doing with the cold right now?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":267.36,"endTime":269.46,"body":"It seems bitterly cold. It"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":269.49,"endTime":272.61,"body":"was bitterly cold"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":269.49,"endTime":272.61,"body":"last week, we were in like minus"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":272.61,"endTime":277.38,"body":"50 Polar Vortex, like just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":272.61,"endTime":277.38,"body":"absolutely freezing whereas now"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":277.38,"endTime":280.62,"body":"it's like a balmy minus 19 so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":277.38,"endTime":280.62,"body":"we're all my kids are outside"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":280.62,"endTime":285.72,"body":"without coats on or our standard"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":280.62,"endTime":285.72,"body":"of temperature is be completely"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":285.72,"endTime":288.75,"body":"messed with. So now we're we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":285.72,"endTime":288.75,"body":"good. I mean, for the most part,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":288.75,"endTime":291.75,"body":"I mean, you know, we just kind"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":288.75,"endTime":291.75,"body":"of learn to navigate I guess"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":291.75,"endTime":294.72,"body":"along the way. It was funny"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":291.75,"endTime":294.72,"body":"though, like I did this video on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":294.72,"endTime":298.02,"body":"Instagram. And I kind of opened"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":294.72,"endTime":298.02,"body":"it by being like, Oh, if Good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":298.02,"endTime":300.45,"body":"morning from Calgary, it's minus"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":298.02,"endTime":300.45,"body":"40. I just thought The kids off"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":300.45,"endTime":303.09,"body":"at school, this mat, and the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":300.45,"endTime":303.09,"body":"amount of people who were like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":303.09,"endTime":306.09,"body":"wait minus 40 and still took the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":303.09,"endTime":306.09,"body":"kids to school. I was like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":306.09,"endTime":310.89,"body":"welcome. That's what we do."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":306.09,"endTime":310.89,"body":"There's never a snow day where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":310.89,"endTime":312.6,"body":"where it's like this, you just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":310.89,"endTime":312.6,"body":"keep going."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":312.72,"endTime":315.0,"body":"Yeah, you just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":312.72,"endTime":315.0,"body":"keep going. It's good. And I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":315.0,"endTime":318.15,"body":"think that's what we do in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":315.0,"endTime":318.15,"body":"wilderness. So your new book,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":318.24,"endTime":321.78,"body":"Field Notes for the wilderness?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":318.24,"endTime":321.78,"body":"I'd love to start out with your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":321.78,"endTime":325.83,"body":"journey in the wilderness. What"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":321.78,"endTime":325.83,"body":"was it like for you to find"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":325.83,"endTime":332.73,"body":"yourself in the midst of a faith"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":325.83,"endTime":332.73,"body":"wilderness? And what were you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":332.73,"endTime":334.08,"body":"feeling at that time?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":334.29,"endTime":338.79,"body":"Hmm. Well, for me,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":334.29,"endTime":338.79,"body":"you when I very first kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":338.79,"endTime":342.66,"body":"had that, that experience of,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":338.79,"endTime":342.66,"body":"you know what now you would I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":342.66,"endTime":344.79,"body":"would call, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":342.66,"endTime":344.79,"body":"deconstruction, or whatever"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":344.79,"endTime":349.44,"body":"else. It was really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":344.79,"endTime":349.44,"body":"disorienting, I think, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":349.53,"endTime":352.83,"body":"at the time, there wasn't a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":349.53,"endTime":352.83,"body":"of the conversation and the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":352.83,"endTime":355.74,"body":"support and the resources of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":352.83,"endTime":355.74,"body":"normalization that we have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":355.74,"endTime":360.6,"body":"nowadays. So it was scary. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":355.74,"endTime":360.6,"body":"it was, I think it's scary to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":360.6,"endTime":364.41,"body":"this day, to be honest, right"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":360.6,"endTime":364.41,"body":"for a lot of us. But there was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":364.41,"endTime":368.55,"body":"the sense of like, oh, this is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":364.41,"endTime":368.55,"body":"the end of everything. And it it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":368.55,"endTime":371.25,"body":"felt very scary. It I didn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":368.55,"endTime":371.25,"body":"know what the implications would"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":371.25,"endTime":375.12,"body":"be for church for myself. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":371.25,"endTime":375.12,"body":"mean, I think one of the things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":375.12,"endTime":378.33,"body":"that I've run into in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":375.12,"endTime":378.33,"body":"wilderness for a lot of us is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":378.33,"endTime":381.36,"body":"that some of the narratives that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":378.33,"endTime":381.36,"body":"can kind of be spoken about us"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":381.66,"endTime":384.93,"body":"is that we got here because we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":381.66,"endTime":384.93,"body":"were faithless, or we wanted"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":384.93,"endTime":387.27,"body":"something else, or we were never"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":384.93,"endTime":387.27,"body":"true believers or whatever else."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":388.2,"endTime":390.66,"body":"Whereas in my experience, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":388.2,"endTime":390.66,"body":"found that usually were the kids"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":390.66,"endTime":393.21,"body":"who were all the, like, we were"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":390.66,"endTime":393.21,"body":"the ones who were like the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":393.21,"endTime":396.6,"body":"truest of true believers, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":393.21,"endTime":396.6,"body":"oftentimes, we landed here at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":396.6,"endTime":399.12,"body":"this place of doubt, or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":396.6,"endTime":399.12,"body":"questions or wrestling,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":399.93,"endTime":404.16,"body":"precisely because we were so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":399.93,"endTime":404.16,"body":"faithful. And because we were so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":404.16,"endTime":407.19,"body":"so entered, and so for me, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":404.16,"endTime":407.19,"body":"know, my first experiences with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":407.19,"endTime":411.12,"body":"this would have been in my early"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":407.19,"endTime":411.12,"body":"20s, mid 20s, has happened a few"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":411.12,"endTime":415.08,"body":"times since then, I think, as we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":411.12,"endTime":415.08,"body":"all learn as we get older. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":415.08,"endTime":417.9,"body":"so now looking back from this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":415.08,"endTime":417.9,"body":"vantage point of you know, 25"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":417.9,"endTime":422.25,"body":"years later, I can see all the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":417.9,"endTime":422.25,"body":"things that kind of went into"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":422.25,"endTime":427.44,"body":"it, but I can also see how"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":422.25,"endTime":427.44,"body":"isolating it was. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":427.44,"endTime":430.44,"body":"that that's maybe what was in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":427.44,"endTime":430.44,"body":"the back of my mind when I was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":430.44,"endTime":433.14,"body":"coming to the page and wanting"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":430.44,"endTime":433.14,"body":"to write this book, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":433.14,"endTime":435.57,"body":"that kind of pulls together"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":433.14,"endTime":435.57,"body":"about 10 years worth of work in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":435.57,"endTime":438.48,"body":"this lane. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":435.57,"endTime":438.48,"body":"shepherding working pastoral"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":438.48,"endTime":442.29,"body":"work and care work has been to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":438.48,"endTime":442.29,"body":"say like, alright, so if you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":442.29,"endTime":447.33,"body":"feel really lonely, and you feel"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":442.29,"endTime":447.33,"body":"like you've lost yourself, or a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":447.33,"endTime":451.35,"body":"version of yourself, or maybe"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":447.33,"endTime":451.35,"body":"even you've lost God, when you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":451.35,"endTime":456.99,"body":"do feel so disoriented, and and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":451.35,"endTime":456.99,"body":"without some of the maps or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":456.99,"endTime":460.29,"body":"compasses that have always"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":456.99,"endTime":460.29,"body":"worked before. What are the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":460.29,"endTime":462.84,"body":"things that you would want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":460.29,"endTime":462.84,"body":"have alongside of you? What are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":462.84,"endTime":466.35,"body":"the what is kind of the Spirit"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":462.84,"endTime":466.35,"body":"even that you would want to take"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":466.35,"endTime":469.23,"body":"with you as you entered that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":466.35,"endTime":469.23,"body":"space? So I think probably a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":469.23,"endTime":473.22,"body":"of this book is because of how I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":469.23,"endTime":473.22,"body":"felt during that initial time"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":473.22,"endTime":475.5,"body":"actually, like maybe you're just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":473.22,"endTime":475.5,"body":"kind of creating what you wished"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":475.5,"endTime":478.41,"body":"you would have had, perhaps? Or"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":478.41,"endTime":481.86,"body":"is there a thing"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":478.41,"endTime":481.86,"body":"or two or a person or two that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":481.86,"endTime":487.68,"body":"helps you, like guided you along"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":481.86,"endTime":487.68,"body":"your journey through an evolving"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":487.68,"endTime":490.98,"body":"faith through the wilderness"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":487.68,"endTime":490.98,"body":"that made you feel a little bit"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":490.98,"endTime":491.91,"body":"less alone?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":493.32,"endTime":495.6,"body":"Absolutely, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":493.32,"endTime":495.6,"body":"mean, I think that's one of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":495.6,"endTime":500.43,"body":"things that it's almost kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":495.6,"endTime":500.43,"body":"a consistent surprise for a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":500.43,"endTime":505.23,"body":"of us, is that you, you enter"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":500.43,"endTime":505.23,"body":"into this feeling very isolated,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":505.23,"endTime":508.53,"body":"very alone. Oftentimes, you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":505.23,"endTime":508.53,"body":"the only person in your family"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":508.53,"endTime":510.72,"body":"or your community or your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":508.53,"endTime":510.72,"body":"church, who's the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":510.72,"endTime":514.08,"body":"asking these questions, or who's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":510.72,"endTime":514.08,"body":"wrestling with some of these,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":514.11,"endTime":517.23,"body":"you know, accepted truths or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":514.11,"endTime":517.23,"body":"whatever else. And then all of a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":517.23,"endTime":519.99,"body":"sudden, you realize you're not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":517.23,"endTime":519.99,"body":"as alone as you thought. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":519.99,"endTime":522.63,"body":"there's this, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":519.99,"endTime":522.63,"body":"not only is there a whole"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":522.63,"endTime":525.45,"body":"community of people that are out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":522.63,"endTime":525.45,"body":"here in the wilderness with you."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":526.29,"endTime":529.35,"body":"But also there is there are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":526.29,"endTime":529.35,"body":"people who have created paths,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":529.59,"endTime":532.38,"body":"and who have walked ahead of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":529.59,"endTime":532.38,"body":"you, whether they are ancient"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":532.38,"endTime":534.3,"body":"paths, or they are new ones,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":532.38,"endTime":534.3,"body":"whether they're people who"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":534.3,"endTime":536.79,"body":"you're alongside of or people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":534.3,"endTime":536.79,"body":"who have kind of come ahead. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":536.79,"endTime":540.03,"body":"for me, I mean, there were a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":536.79,"endTime":540.03,"body":"of things. And a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":540.03,"endTime":544.05,"body":"who came alongside I think one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":540.03,"endTime":544.05,"body":"of the things that I look back"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":544.05,"endTime":547.77,"body":"on though the most has been most"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":544.05,"endTime":547.77,"body":"formative was actually my dad,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":548.7,"endTime":553.02,"body":"which I know is a rare story for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":548.7,"endTime":553.02,"body":"a lot of people in, in I think a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":553.02,"endTime":555.6,"body":"lot of deconstruction or or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":553.02,"endTime":555.6,"body":"evolving faith places."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":555.6,"endTime":559.23,"body":"Oftentimes, that's your biggest"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":555.6,"endTime":559.23,"body":"point of, of loss is with your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":559.23,"endTime":562.68,"body":"family of origin. But for me,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":559.23,"endTime":562.68,"body":"with my parents, they were they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":562.68,"endTime":565.86,"body":"were super curious and really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":562.68,"endTime":565.86,"body":"interested. And now of course,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":565.86,"endTime":569.4,"body":"in their 70s they're still that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":565.86,"endTime":569.4,"body":"curious. But I remember that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":569.43,"endTime":575.58,"body":"moment, years ago, where my dad"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":569.43,"endTime":575.58,"body":"very pointedly said to me, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":575.58,"endTime":580.29,"body":"he wasn't afraid for me or about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":575.58,"endTime":580.29,"body":"me, that even even if I landed"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":580.29,"endTime":583.23,"body":"somewhere completely different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":580.29,"endTime":583.23,"body":"than where he had landed with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":583.23,"endTime":585.75,"body":"his faith that he honestly"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":583.23,"endTime":585.75,"body":"believed that if I was seeking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":585.75,"endTime":588.51,"body":"God, that I was held in the love"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":585.75,"endTime":588.51,"body":"of God and that that that that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":588.51,"endTime":590.97,"body":"was going to be okay. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":588.51,"endTime":590.97,"body":"think just that level of like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":590.97,"endTime":595.89,"body":"acceptance and permission, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":590.97,"endTime":595.89,"body":"non anxious presence for me that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":595.89,"endTime":598.44,"body":"that blessing of the fact that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":595.89,"endTime":598.44,"body":"my path could look really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":598.44,"endTime":601.71,"body":"different from hence you gave me"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":598.44,"endTime":601.71,"body":"the permission then to be like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":601.71,"endTime":604.17,"body":"Okay, we're going to do this,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":601.71,"endTime":604.17,"body":"you know, I'm not going to feel"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":604.17,"endTime":608.94,"body":"like I need to suppress or hide"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":604.17,"endTime":608.94,"body":"or perform or mask up, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":608.94,"endTime":613.23,"body":"or play along to feel loved that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":608.94,"endTime":613.23,"body":"instead, there's actually room"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":613.23,"endTime":616.23,"body":"here. So I think that that kind"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":613.23,"endTime":616.23,"body":"of spirit maybe was something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":616.23,"endTime":618.69,"body":"that I was drawn to in a number"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":616.23,"endTime":618.69,"body":"of different speakers that are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":618.69,"endTime":623.1,"body":"or teachers or voices. It's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":618.69,"endTime":623.1,"body":"funny now looking back from this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":623.1,"endTime":625.47,"body":"place, because I can look back"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":623.1,"endTime":625.47,"body":"on like certain moments or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":625.47,"endTime":627.93,"body":"movements that meant a lot to me"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":625.47,"endTime":627.93,"body":"at the time, even if I didn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":627.93,"endTime":631.11,"body":"stay there very long. Whether it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":627.93,"endTime":631.11,"body":"was like the Emerging Church of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":631.11,"endTime":634.77,"body":"like, the early odds was like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":631.11,"endTime":634.77,"body":"so huge for me of being able to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":634.77,"endTime":637.44,"body":"be like, you're allowed to talk"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":634.77,"endTime":637.44,"body":"about this stuff, you're allowed"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":637.44,"endTime":639.24,"body":"to have questions, you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":637.44,"endTime":639.24,"body":"allowed to do things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":639.24,"endTime":641.61,"body":"differently, like, and now it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":639.24,"endTime":641.61,"body":"seems so adorable looking back"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":641.61,"endTime":644.55,"body":"on it. But there were a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":641.61,"endTime":644.55,"body":"moments like that along the way."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":644.55,"endTime":647.04,"body":"And whether it was through the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":644.55,"endTime":647.04,"body":"page, I mean, granted, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":647.04,"endTime":649.89,"body":"writer, so I want to throw a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":647.04,"endTime":649.89,"body":"book at everything. So I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":649.89,"endTime":653.97,"body":"got a lot of companionship"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":649.89,"endTime":653.97,"body":"through the pages of books, with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":653.97,"endTime":656.94,"body":"other people and things that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":653.97,"endTime":656.94,"body":"even on the internet, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":656.97,"endTime":660.6,"body":"that was a big turning point for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":656.97,"endTime":660.6,"body":"me was, you know, realizing that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":660.6,"endTime":664.32,"body":"there were a lot of folks like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":660.6,"endTime":664.32,"body":"me who were and folks who were"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":664.32,"endTime":667.74,"body":"very different than me, who were"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":664.32,"endTime":667.74,"body":"asking similar questions and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":667.74,"endTime":670.95,"body":"wrestling with similar issues,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":667.74,"endTime":670.95,"body":"and we're talking about it out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":670.95,"endTime":674.22,"body":"loud. And that was exciting and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":670.95,"endTime":674.22,"body":"liberating at the same time."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":675.51,"endTime":678.39,"body":"Yeah, it's so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":675.51,"endTime":678.39,"body":"great that there were some paths"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":678.39,"endTime":682.53,"body":"that you could start to find"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":678.39,"endTime":682.53,"body":"your way within the wilderness."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":682.56,"endTime":686.16,"body":"And you had somebody give you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":682.56,"endTime":686.16,"body":"permission to say, let's be"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":686.16,"endTime":692.79,"body":"curious, ask questions. Seek God"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":686.16,"endTime":692.79,"body":"in the way that you know how,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":692.85,"endTime":698.25,"body":"and the best way that you can,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":692.85,"endTime":698.25,"body":"so that you can just sit in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":698.25,"endTime":701.52,"body":"love of God. And I think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":698.25,"endTime":701.52,"body":"sometimes it's really hard to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":701.52,"endTime":706.59,"body":"sit in the love of God, when it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":701.52,"endTime":706.59,"body":"feels like everything around you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":706.59,"endTime":711.36,"body":"is burning. And so a lot of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":706.59,"endTime":711.36,"body":"people in evangelical churches"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":711.36,"endTime":714.6,"body":"stay or in, in different"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":711.36,"endTime":714.6,"body":"churches sometimes feel like,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":715.32,"endTime":720.69,"body":"Man, I, I feel trapped. I feel"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":715.32,"endTime":720.69,"body":"like things are burning. How?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":720.81,"endTime":726.93,"body":"What's a practice for for those"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":720.81,"endTime":726.93,"body":"people to say? I can be curious,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":726.93,"endTime":729.87,"body":"given permission to be curious"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":726.93,"endTime":729.87,"body":"and sit in the love of God as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":729.87,"endTime":733.05,"body":"they move forward, even if"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":729.87,"endTime":733.05,"body":"they're in the midst of a of a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":733.05,"endTime":734.43,"body":"fire? Hmm,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":734.79,"endTime":736.56,"body":"that's a really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":734.79,"endTime":736.56,"body":"good question. And a very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":736.56,"endTime":739.59,"body":"pastoral one, Joshua, like, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":736.56,"endTime":739.59,"body":"think, I think that's one of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":739.59,"endTime":745.86,"body":"things that maybe is what is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":739.59,"endTime":745.86,"body":"being reset in us over and above"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":745.86,"endTime":749.07,"body":"any opinions that we're trading"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":745.86,"endTime":749.07,"body":"in and out? I think sometimes"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":749.07,"endTime":751.74,"body":"initially, when we very first"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":749.07,"endTime":751.74,"body":"kind of enter the wilderness or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":751.74,"endTime":754.14,"body":"we enter into this season, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":751.74,"endTime":754.14,"body":"think we're just kind of trading"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":754.14,"endTime":757.47,"body":"one set of opinions and facts"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":754.14,"endTime":757.47,"body":"and beliefs and answers for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":757.47,"endTime":760.53,"body":"another set. And that could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":757.47,"endTime":760.53,"body":"definitely be part of it. Right?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":760.53,"endTime":762.9,"body":"There's a lot of things that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":760.53,"endTime":762.9,"body":"I've changed my mind on or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":762.9,"endTime":767.25,"body":"theology that I've renegotiated"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":762.9,"endTime":767.25,"body":"or, you know, ideas that I've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":767.25,"endTime":771.39,"body":"had to deepen or refine, or let"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":767.25,"endTime":771.39,"body":"go of, in a lot of cases, if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":771.39,"endTime":774.57,"body":"they were, you know, not super"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":771.39,"endTime":774.57,"body":"helpful. So at evolving faith,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":775.11,"endTime":778.59,"body":"which is a conference that a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":775.11,"endTime":778.59,"body":"community that I that I had co"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":778.59,"endTime":782.52,"body":"founded a number of years ago,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":778.59,"endTime":782.52,"body":"there was one year where Daniel"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":782.52,"endTime":787.41,"body":"Shroyer, who was a spiritual,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":782.52,"endTime":787.41,"body":"who is a spiritual director, she"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":787.41,"endTime":791.04,"body":"posed this question to us, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":787.41,"endTime":791.04,"body":"she said, What does it look like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":791.04,"endTime":795.3,"body":"to let God love you? And the way"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":791.04,"endTime":795.3,"body":"that that brought like an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":795.3,"endTime":798.54,"body":"exhale, but also this sense of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":795.3,"endTime":798.54,"body":"like permission to almost all of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":798.54,"endTime":800.79,"body":"us who were in the room? And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":798.54,"endTime":800.79,"body":"I've carried that question with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":800.79,"endTime":803.01,"body":"me ever since. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":800.79,"endTime":803.01,"body":"when you do feel like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":803.01,"endTime":806.55,"body":"everything's burning around you,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":803.01,"endTime":806.55,"body":"when it does feel like maybe"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":806.55,"endTime":809.97,"body":"even your version of God is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":806.55,"endTime":809.97,"body":"disappearing, like steam on a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":809.97,"endTime":812.7,"body":"mirror, right after you're after"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":809.97,"endTime":812.7,"body":"a shower, you open the door."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":813.54,"endTime":817.62,"body":"There's this sense of like, what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":813.54,"endTime":817.62,"body":"does it look like then to lean"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":817.62,"endTime":820.92,"body":"into love? Wherever you find it,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":817.62,"endTime":820.92,"body":"and however you cultivate it,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":820.92,"endTime":825.12,"body":"what does it look like? Where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":820.92,"endTime":825.12,"body":"you do feel loved, and you do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":825.12,"endTime":828.72,"body":"feel like your most most true"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":825.12,"endTime":828.72,"body":"self? And then how do you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":828.72,"endTime":832.65,"body":"practice that and make room for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":828.72,"endTime":832.65,"body":"that? Instead of minimizing it?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":832.92,"endTime":835.77,"body":"Or trying to push it to the side"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":832.92,"endTime":835.77,"body":"or acting like that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":835.77,"endTime":840.75,"body":"matter or somehow that that some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":835.77,"endTime":840.75,"body":"some lesser version of God? I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":840.75,"endTime":843.39,"body":"think that one of the things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":840.75,"endTime":843.39,"body":"that was really healing for me,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":843.69,"endTime":849.15,"body":"during that initial white hot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":843.69,"endTime":849.15,"body":"kind of center of loss, was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":849.15,"endTime":852.57,"body":"realizing that I couldn't wander"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":849.15,"endTime":852.57,"body":"away from God's love. You know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":852.57,"endTime":856.17,"body":"there's this passage in Psalm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":852.57,"endTime":856.17,"body":"139, where the writer where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":856.17,"endTime":859.17,"body":"David talks about how even if I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":856.17,"endTime":859.17,"body":"make my bed in hell, you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":859.17,"endTime":862.02,"body":"already there, that there's no"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":859.17,"endTime":862.02,"body":"place that I can go that your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":862.02,"endTime":865.14,"body":"spirit isn't already already"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":862.02,"endTime":865.14,"body":"there. And there was something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":865.14,"endTime":868.86,"body":"about that of like, there's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":865.14,"endTime":868.86,"body":"nowhere I can go. And there's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":868.86,"endTime":871.8,"body":"nowhere I can be and there's no"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":868.86,"endTime":871.8,"body":"opinion I can hold or thing I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":871.8,"endTime":876.27,"body":"can change or, or aspect of my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":871.8,"endTime":876.27,"body":"life that couldn't be dismantled"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":876.27,"endTime":881.13,"body":"that would somehow dismantle"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":876.27,"endTime":881.13,"body":"that love, and that that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":881.13,"endTime":883.29,"body":"undergirding and I think that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":881.13,"endTime":883.29,"body":"something I saw in the life of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":883.29,"endTime":885.96,"body":"Jesus that I found so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":883.29,"endTime":885.96,"body":"compelling, and I still find"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":885.96,"endTime":889.11,"body":"incredibly compelling to this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":885.96,"endTime":889.11,"body":"day of just, this is what it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":889.11,"endTime":892.62,"body":"looks like when you count out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":889.11,"endTime":892.62,"body":"wander the love of God, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":892.62,"endTime":896.16,"body":"there's a room to breathe,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":892.62,"endTime":896.16,"body":"there's room to stretch, there's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":896.16,"endTime":902.46,"body":"room to play, even and explore"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":896.16,"endTime":902.46,"body":"as opposed to threats and teeny"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":902.46,"endTime":906.78,"body":"tiny little white boxes for God,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":902.46,"endTime":906.78,"body":"like it just, there's so much"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":906.78,"endTime":908.76,"body":"more room and so much more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":906.78,"endTime":908.76,"body":"beauty and goodness, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":908.76,"endTime":910.68,"body":"that maybe we even knew to hope"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":908.76,"endTime":910.68,"body":"for."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":912.36,"endTime":914.79,"body":"There's so much"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":912.36,"endTime":914.79,"body":"beauty and goodness and so much"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":914.79,"endTime":918.75,"body":"love. And the opposite of that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":914.79,"endTime":918.75,"body":"is, is fear. And I think a lot"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":918.75,"endTime":924.66,"body":"of people are fearing that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":918.75,"endTime":924.66,"body":"culture is eroding. So they have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":924.66,"endTime":930.63,"body":"to preserve something. And so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":924.66,"endTime":930.63,"body":"they hold on to a faith of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":930.63,"endTime":937.35,"body":"past that's not serving people"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":930.63,"endTime":937.35,"body":"or the moment right now, where"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":937.35,"endTime":940.89,"body":"it's not bringing people love. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":937.35,"endTime":940.89,"body":"have a lot of people in my life"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":940.89,"endTime":945.69,"body":"that have lost community because"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":940.89,"endTime":945.69,"body":"they believe that that their"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":945.69,"endTime":949.92,"body":"church or churches are not"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":945.69,"endTime":949.92,"body":"following the path of love."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":949.95,"endTime":956.07,"body":"They're following the path of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":949.95,"endTime":956.07,"body":"cultural preservation. How can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":956.07,"endTime":962.04,"body":"we change our posture? And know"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":956.07,"endTime":962.04,"body":"that it's going to be okay,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":962.7,"endTime":968.94,"body":"Jesus has got it. God's love"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":962.7,"endTime":968.94,"body":"will pursue us. And we can have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":968.97,"endTime":974.52,"body":"open hands and move towards"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":968.97,"endTime":974.52,"body":"curiosity and not be afraid, in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":974.52,"endTime":975.12,"body":"the midst of it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1034.67,"endTime":1036.92,"body":"Yeah, I think that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1034.67,"endTime":1036.92,"body":"that's, that's kind of a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1036.92,"endTime":1040.22,"body":"question that a lot of us are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1036.92,"endTime":1040.22,"body":"kind of finding ourselves out."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1040.22,"endTime":1044.39,"body":"And I've never, I mean, granted,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1040.22,"endTime":1044.39,"body":"I come from like, a Pentecostal"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1044.39,"endTime":1047.39,"body":"ish, prosperity gospel Word of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1044.39,"endTime":1047.39,"body":"Faith, charismatic kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1047.42,"endTime":1050.93,"body":"background. Hence, the reason"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1047.42,"endTime":1050.93,"body":"why I like words like powers and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1050.93,"endTime":1056.06,"body":"principalities, and I still"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1050.93,"endTime":1056.06,"body":"deploy them. But I remember one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1056.06,"endTime":1059.0900000000001,"body":"of those things being that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1056.06,"endTime":1059.0900000000001,"body":"actually being a huge part of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1059.0900000000001,"endTime":1061.7,"body":"some of the things that we would"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1059.0900000000001,"endTime":1061.7,"body":"talk about. And we would go back"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1061.7,"endTime":1065.78,"body":"to stories that were told in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1061.7,"endTime":1065.78,"body":"Scripture about old wine in new"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1065.78,"endTime":1071.63,"body":"wineskins. And in a lot of ways,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1065.78,"endTime":1071.63,"body":"I think even that language from"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1071.63,"endTime":1075.3500000000001,"body":"my past has helped me understand"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1071.63,"endTime":1075.3500000000001,"body":"this shifting culture kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1075.3500000000001,"endTime":1079.55,"body":"moment. Of, yes, Jesus is the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1075.3500000000001,"endTime":1079.55,"body":"same yesterday and today, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1079.55,"endTime":1083.3899999999999,"body":"forever, but how we move through"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1079.55,"endTime":1083.3899999999999,"body":"the world and how we understand"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1083.3899999999999,"endTime":1087.98,"body":"that and even the questions of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1083.3899999999999,"endTime":1087.98,"body":"our time, have shifted so much"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1087.98,"endTime":1090.5,"body":"that there may need to be new"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1087.98,"endTime":1090.5,"body":"wineskins, there may need to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1090.5,"endTime":1094.22,"body":"new ways of of embodying that or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1090.5,"endTime":1094.22,"body":"of understanding that. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1094.22,"endTime":1097.19,"body":"think that sometimes that's the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1094.22,"endTime":1097.19,"body":"invitation that we see there's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1097.19,"endTime":1100.1,"body":"this really beautiful redemptive"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1097.19,"endTime":1100.1,"body":"arc to it, that that just keeps"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1100.1,"endTime":1102.56,"body":"going deeper and further into"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1100.1,"endTime":1102.56,"body":"the love and acceptance from the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1102.56,"endTime":1105.98,"body":"goodness of God. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1102.56,"endTime":1105.98,"body":"that that's one of those things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1105.98,"endTime":1109.85,"body":"that sometimes can be a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1105.98,"endTime":1109.85,"body":"difficult thing to release."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1111.26,"endTime":1115.61,"body":"While at the same time having a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1111.26,"endTime":1115.61,"body":"sense of honor for what was and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1115.61,"endTime":1118.28,"body":"that's kind of a difficult"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1115.61,"endTime":1118.28,"body":"needle to thread there, right of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1118.28,"endTime":1120.5,"body":"saying, okay, maybe I've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1118.28,"endTime":1120.5,"body":"outgrown this box, or maybe this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1120.5,"endTime":1123.35,"body":"is old, wineskins, or whatever"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1120.5,"endTime":1123.35,"body":"else, can I bless the things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1123.35,"endTime":1127.46,"body":"that I once needed for God, even"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1123.35,"endTime":1127.46,"body":"if I leave them behind, and I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1127.46,"endTime":1130.34,"body":"move forward into where, where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1127.46,"endTime":1130.34,"body":"the Spirit is moving right now"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1130.34,"endTime":1134.0,"body":"and have some awarenesses and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1130.34,"endTime":1134.0,"body":"openness to a new thing that may"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1134.0,"endTime":1136.94,"body":"be happening there, as long as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1134.0,"endTime":1136.94,"body":"you you're being led by the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1136.94,"endTime":1139.28,"body":"Spirit knowing led by love and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1136.94,"endTime":1139.28,"body":"within all of that, right?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1139.28,"endTime":1142.55,"body":"Because I think sometimes the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1139.28,"endTime":1142.55,"body":"the tendency or the draw we have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1142.55,"endTime":1147.2,"body":"when we become preservationist"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1142.55,"endTime":1147.2,"body":"is this idea of like, well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1147.2,"endTime":1150.05,"body":"just gonna do everything I can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1147.2,"endTime":1150.05,"body":"to keep things the same. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1150.05,"endTime":1154.4,"body":"that is just not how anything in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1150.05,"endTime":1154.4,"body":"our lives or in the world or at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1154.4,"endTime":1157.1,"body":"nature, or at anything works,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1154.4,"endTime":1157.1,"body":"you're always evolving, you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1157.1,"endTime":1159.47,"body":"always adapting, you're always"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1157.1,"endTime":1159.47,"body":"shifting and changing and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1159.47,"endTime":1161.54,"body":"learning and growing. Otherwise,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1159.47,"endTime":1161.54,"body":"you're missing the point and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1161.54,"endTime":1164.84,"body":"you're missing the voice of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1161.54,"endTime":1164.84,"body":"Spirit. And you can become so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1164.87,"endTime":1168.2,"body":"almost turtled into that, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1164.87,"endTime":1168.2,"body":"you're not not even aware of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1168.2,"endTime":1171.26,"body":"invitations that are happening"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1168.2,"endTime":1171.26,"body":"around us. And so, yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1171.26,"endTime":1173.51,"body":"that that's, that's one of those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1171.26,"endTime":1173.51,"body":"things that will always be a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1173.51,"endTime":1177.26,"body":"little bit of a struggle. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1173.51,"endTime":1177.26,"body":"it's one of those things that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1177.26,"endTime":1180.05,"body":"will always be the invitation in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1177.26,"endTime":1180.05,"body":"front of us. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1180.05,"endTime":1182.78,"body":"I really pray"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1180.05,"endTime":1182.78,"body":"that we could have that posture,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1183.05,"endTime":1188.27,"body":"and continue to love and grow"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1183.05,"endTime":1188.27,"body":"and grow and the depth of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1188.27,"endTime":1192.41,"body":"love of God forever and ever."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1188.27,"endTime":1192.41,"body":"Because you just can't get to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1192.41,"endTime":1197.45,"body":"the end of it. And wow, be"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1192.41,"endTime":1197.45,"body":"really compelled by the love of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1197.45,"endTime":1202.79,"body":"God, into the world. In the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1197.45,"endTime":1202.79,"body":"spaces where we live and work"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1202.79,"endTime":1210.32,"body":"and play. Man, it just seems to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1202.79,"endTime":1210.32,"body":"be the antidote to to what the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1210.32,"endTime":1211.55,"body":"world is going through."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1212.15,"endTime":1216.8899999999999,"body":"Literally, it just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1212.15,"endTime":1216.8899999999999,"body":"so much more humility than right"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1216.95,"endTime":1220.76,"body":"it does it just which is maybe"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1216.95,"endTime":1220.76,"body":"an old fashioned word, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1220.76,"endTime":1224.9,"body":"for for us nowadays. But even I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1220.76,"endTime":1224.9,"body":"think that that's maybe part of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1224.9,"endTime":1227.27,"body":"the invitation is one of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1224.9,"endTime":1227.27,"body":"humility and learning and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1227.27,"endTime":1231.2,"body":"curiosity instead of certainty."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1227.27,"endTime":1231.2,"body":"And If This Then That, and I had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1231.2,"endTime":1234.05,"body":"it all figured out at 25 Then I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1231.2,"endTime":1234.05,"body":"don't need anything else ever,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1234.08,"endTime":1239.75,"body":"ever again. It does. It does"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1234.08,"endTime":1239.75,"body":"require an openness to other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1239.75,"endTime":1242.51,"body":"people's stories that other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1239.75,"endTime":1242.51,"body":"people's experiences and I know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1242.51,"endTime":1247.85,"body":"for me, I've learned to love God"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1242.51,"endTime":1247.85,"body":"and love my Bible and love this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1247.85,"endTime":1252.62,"body":"world better by precisely"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1247.85,"endTime":1252.62,"body":"because you listen to and are in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1252.62,"endTime":1255.26,"body":"relationship with people who"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1252.62,"endTime":1255.26,"body":"have such a different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1255.26,"endTime":1259.19,"body":"experience. than you in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1255.26,"endTime":1259.19,"body":"world, or even then you're there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1259.19,"endTime":1261.98,"body":"experience with God even. It"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1259.19,"endTime":1261.98,"body":"just makes you love, love"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1261.98,"endTime":1264.59,"body":"everybody a little bit better."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1261.98,"endTime":1264.59,"body":"It's easy to tell people there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1264.59,"endTime":1267.08,"body":"your opinion, it's hard to hard"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1264.59,"endTime":1267.08,"body":"work to tell your story. That's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1267.08,"endTime":1268.97,"body":"for sure. That's what my friend"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1267.08,"endTime":1268.97,"body":"Nisha always used to say."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1270.199,"endTime":1272.329,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1270.199,"endTime":1272.329,"body":"beautiful. How can we cultivate"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1272.329,"endTime":1276.559,"body":"a sense of awe and wonder and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1272.329,"endTime":1276.559,"body":"beauty in the world and take"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1276.559,"endTime":1280.039,"body":"notice and pay attention to what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1276.559,"endTime":1280.039,"body":"is in front of us?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1281.18,"endTime":1283.58,"body":"That is actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1281.18,"endTime":1283.58,"body":"secretly one of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1283.58,"endTime":1286.16,"body":"chapters in the book, actually,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1283.58,"endTime":1286.16,"body":"Joshua, like it was. So it's,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1286.76,"endTime":1289.1,"body":"it's funny, you asked that one,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1286.76,"endTime":1289.1,"body":"because that's one that I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1290.93,"endTime":1295.1,"body":"we may be skipped over. When we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1290.93,"endTime":1295.1,"body":"are in deconstruction, we often"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1295.1,"endTime":1297.59,"body":"want to run down to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1295.1,"endTime":1297.59,"body":"fundamentals. Right? And we are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1297.59,"endTime":1301.67,"body":"eager to answer questions and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1297.59,"endTime":1301.67,"body":"and, you know, kind of set out a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1301.67,"endTime":1308.33,"body":"new life plan. Right. And, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1301.67,"endTime":1308.33,"body":"so I think that those those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1308.36,"endTime":1312.05,"body":"wider invitations that the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1308.36,"endTime":1312.05,"body":"spirit has for us, whether it is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1312.05,"endTime":1316.01,"body":"around things like joy, and hope"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1312.05,"endTime":1316.01,"body":"and repentance, and love, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1316.01,"endTime":1319.19,"body":"transformation, and healing,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1316.01,"endTime":1319.19,"body":"like those are great big, huge"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1319.4,"endTime":1324.62,"body":"nouns and verbs, for me wonder,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1319.4,"endTime":1324.62,"body":"has actually been one of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1324.8,"endTime":1328.82,"body":"most beautiful things that have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1324.8,"endTime":1328.82,"body":"been restored to me because of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1328.82,"endTime":1332.6299999999999,"body":"the wilderness, that there was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1328.82,"endTime":1332.6299999999999,"body":"this almost spiritual practice"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1332.6299999999999,"endTime":1336.8,"body":"of saying, I don't know it,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1332.6299999999999,"endTime":1336.8,"body":"isn't it amazing? You know, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1336.8,"endTime":1340.76,"body":"it gave me back, almost like a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1336.8,"endTime":1340.76,"body":"child's eyes to look at things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1340.76,"endTime":1345.17,"body":"like solar systems and ladybugs"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1340.76,"endTime":1345.17,"body":"and like the way of kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1345.17,"endTime":1349.1,"body":"moving through not only"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1345.17,"endTime":1349.1,"body":"creation, but even this sense of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1349.1,"endTime":1351.92,"body":"like other people a sense of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1349.1,"endTime":1351.92,"body":"wonder, and curiosity and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1351.92,"endTime":1355.22,"body":"goodness to it. And so, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1351.92,"endTime":1355.22,"body":"know, I think that the ways that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1355.22,"endTime":1357.62,"body":"you cultivate that, or the ways"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1355.22,"endTime":1357.62,"body":"that you create that is, is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1357.62,"endTime":1360.68,"body":"almost by having that posture of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1357.62,"endTime":1360.68,"body":"openness. Like for me, I felt"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1360.68,"endTime":1364.97,"body":"like a lot of it was restored,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1360.68,"endTime":1364.97,"body":"because we have four kids. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1364.97,"endTime":1369.08,"body":"anybody who's ever, like, spent"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1364.97,"endTime":1369.08,"body":"a lot of time with little kids,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1369.11,"endTime":1372.41,"body":"you'll learn to like, notice"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1369.11,"endTime":1372.41,"body":"things. And you begin to see"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1372.41,"endTime":1374.54,"body":"some of those sacraments. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1372.41,"endTime":1374.54,"body":"that's certainly not the only"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1374.54,"endTime":1376.46,"body":"way to do that. 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But I remember"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1383.3899999999999,"endTime":1386.21,"body":"like, just these moments with my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1383.3899999999999,"endTime":1386.21,"body":"kids of being like, what's the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1386.21,"endTime":1388.1,"body":"first time that they'd been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1386.21,"endTime":1388.1,"body":"outside at night and saw the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1388.1,"endTime":1392.15,"body":"Milky Way or the, the Northern"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1388.1,"endTime":1392.15,"body":"Lights, and just how they can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1392.15,"endTime":1396.59,"body":"sing, and, and that just resets"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1392.15,"endTime":1396.59,"body":"something beautiful and good and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1396.59,"endTime":1399.86,"body":"nourishing, and us? I think it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1396.59,"endTime":1399.86,"body":"is one of those things that when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1399.86,"endTime":1403.01,"body":"we do feel like we're starving"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1399.86,"endTime":1403.01,"body":"for something, it does fill us"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1403.01,"endTime":1406.82,"body":"up. And I know that there's lots"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1403.01,"endTime":1406.82,"body":"of different places where we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1406.82,"endTime":1410.75,"body":"find a sense of wonder, we can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1406.82,"endTime":1410.75,"body":"have that in relationships, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1410.75,"endTime":1415.91,"body":"in, you know, embodiment, and in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1410.75,"endTime":1415.91,"body":"Scripture and in learning. And,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1416.27,"endTime":1420.05,"body":"you know, but I think it does"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1416.27,"endTime":1420.05,"body":"begin in that posture of saying,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1420.44,"endTime":1423.47,"body":"letting yourself almost be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1420.44,"endTime":1423.47,"body":"enchanted, and letting yourself"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1423.47,"endTime":1424.67,"body":"be amazed a little bit."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1425.36,"endTime":1427.34,"body":"I was able to do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1425.36,"endTime":1427.34,"body":"that I was able to take a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1427.34,"endTime":1432.44,"body":"sabbatical this summer, my wife"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1427.34,"endTime":1432.44,"body":"and you know, part of a section"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1432.47,"endTime":1438.8899999999999,"body":"of our sabbatical was spent in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1432.47,"endTime":1438.8899999999999,"body":"the Austrian Alps. And so taking"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1438.98,"endTime":1444.35,"body":"taking walks in the Alps, like,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1438.98,"endTime":1444.35,"body":"okay, yes, I have wonder and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1444.35,"endTime":1448.55,"body":"amazement, and it's all there, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1444.35,"endTime":1448.55,"body":"could pay attention, I'm slowing"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1448.55,"endTime":1455.66,"body":"down, but then I come back into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1448.55,"endTime":1455.66,"body":"a busy life of, of work, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1455.66,"endTime":1460.37,"body":"family, and, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1455.66,"endTime":1460.37,"body":"church and everything else that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1460.37,"endTime":1466.1299999999999,"body":"I'm doing in my life. And I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1460.37,"endTime":1466.1299999999999,"body":"often forget it. I forget the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1466.1299999999999,"endTime":1469.31,"body":"wonder and the amazement that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1466.1299999999999,"endTime":1469.31,"body":"God has has brought me to you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1469.31,"endTime":1474.23,"body":"and actually showed me, here it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1469.31,"endTime":1474.23,"body":"is, hey, attention. And that's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1474.26,"endTime":1479.69,"body":"continually my invitation from"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1474.26,"endTime":1479.69,"body":"God is to pay attention. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1479.75,"endTime":1484.94,"body":"look at this wonder, wonderful"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1479.75,"endTime":1484.94,"body":"thing that I've created. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1484.94,"endTime":1490.43,"body":"humans and nature, in our busy"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1484.94,"endTime":1490.43,"body":"lives, how, what are some ways"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1490.43,"endTime":1494.6,"body":"that we could start to cultivate"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1490.43,"endTime":1494.6,"body":"that, so we can slow down and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1494.6,"endTime":1497.78,"body":"pay attention and not just go"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1494.6,"endTime":1497.78,"body":"through the motions?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1499.1299999999999,"endTime":1501.62,"body":"I think that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1499.1299999999999,"endTime":1501.62,"body":"that's, those are almost kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1501.62,"endTime":1504.71,"body":"like those those rhythms of our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1501.62,"endTime":1504.71,"body":"life that don't get a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1504.71,"endTime":1506.96,"body":"attention. I think, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1504.71,"endTime":1506.96,"body":"that's one of those things,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1506.96,"endTime":1512.36,"body":"maybe that I deconstructed"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1506.96,"endTime":1512.36,"body":"really early on was my husband"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1512.36,"endTime":1515.93,"body":"and I jokingly call it like our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1512.36,"endTime":1515.93,"body":"evangelical hero complex. Like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1517.28,"endTime":1520.31,"body":"in like, the 80s and 90s. It was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1517.28,"endTime":1520.31,"body":"like you had to do like great"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1520.31,"endTime":1524.18,"body":"big huge things for God and you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1520.31,"endTime":1524.18,"body":"had to like, you know, just this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1524.18,"endTime":1527.24,"body":"hero narrative that like savior"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1524.18,"endTime":1527.24,"body":"complex thing that was just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1527.24,"endTime":1531.95,"body":"constantly on you, right? To the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1527.24,"endTime":1531.95,"body":"point where, when we found"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1531.95,"endTime":1535.34,"body":"ourselves in adulthood with with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1531.95,"endTime":1535.34,"body":"rather ordinary jobs and rather"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1535.34,"endTime":1537.71,"body":"ordinary life and rather"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1535.34,"endTime":1537.71,"body":"ordinary things, it was like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1537.71,"endTime":1542.69,"body":"Well, are we are we doing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1537.71,"endTime":1542.69,"body":"enough? Is my life enough? Is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1542.69,"endTime":1546.83,"body":"God disappointed in me? And what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1542.69,"endTime":1546.83,"body":"does it look like? So for us"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1546.83,"endTime":1550.79,"body":"having to relearn a whole"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1546.83,"endTime":1550.79,"body":"theology around the goodness of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1550.79,"endTime":1554.45,"body":"work, and the goodness of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1550.79,"endTime":1554.45,"body":"relationships and home and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1554.45,"endTime":1557.69,"body":"family and even smallness within"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1554.45,"endTime":1557.69,"body":"In our life was actually the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1557.69,"endTime":1560.6,"body":"thing that began to kind of heal"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1557.69,"endTime":1560.6,"body":"that broken bone that existed"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1560.6,"endTime":1563.48,"body":"between what was secular and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1560.6,"endTime":1563.48,"body":"what was sacred in our lives. 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And so I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1628.67,"endTime":1631.19,"body":"think that that was maybe one of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1628.67,"endTime":1631.19,"body":"the things that that I'm still"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1631.19,"endTime":1635.18,"body":"thankful for, to this day that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1631.19,"endTime":1635.18,"body":"was completely destroyed. Even"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1635.18,"endTime":1637.94,"body":"though at the time it felt like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1635.18,"endTime":1637.94,"body":"a lot of loss to be like, well,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1637.94,"endTime":1640.94,"body":"all these hero things that made"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1637.94,"endTime":1640.94,"body":"me special, it made me important"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1640.94,"endTime":1644.42,"body":"and made God love me more. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1640.94,"endTime":1644.42,"body":"I'm so loved by Jesus, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1644.42,"endTime":1646.82,"body":"I'm so productive and such a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1644.42,"endTime":1646.82,"body":"good little soldier, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1647.15,"endTime":1650.27,"body":"none of that, when you lose all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1647.15,"endTime":1650.27,"body":"of that, when your ability to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1650.27,"endTime":1653.51,"body":"perform on the platforms"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1650.27,"endTime":1653.51,"body":"disappear when whatever else"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1653.51,"endTime":1655.79,"body":"kind of happens, or you're not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1653.51,"endTime":1655.79,"body":"able to pray the way you used to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1655.79,"endTime":1660.59,"body":"pray, or or whatever else it is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1655.79,"endTime":1660.59,"body":"that kind of emerges. 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No, but"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1671.0,"endTime":1672.59,"body":"everybody loves"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1671.0,"endTime":1672.59,"body":"long answers."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1672.98,"endTime":1675.41,"body":"There's this one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1672.98,"endTime":1675.41,"body":"night with my kids were little."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1675.47,"endTime":1678.65,"body":"So they're all grown in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1675.47,"endTime":1678.65,"body":"teenagers now. And whatever else"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1678.65,"endTime":1682.97,"body":"the when they were little, my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1678.65,"endTime":1682.97,"body":"older three wanted to use to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1682.97,"endTime":1687.83,"body":"like to sleep out on our back"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1682.97,"endTime":1687.83,"body":"deck. 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But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1695.15,"endTime":1697.6399999999999,"body":"there was this one night about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1697.6399999999999,"endTime":1700.4,"body":"like one or two in the morning"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1697.6399999999999,"endTime":1700.4,"body":"where I woke up, and I heard"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1700.4,"endTime":1704.03,"body":"them talking out on the deck."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1700.4,"endTime":1704.03,"body":"And so I get up and I go to the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1704.06,"endTime":1707.12,"body":"back door and I'm about to walk"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1704.06,"endTime":1707.12,"body":"out. And I realized that they're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1707.12,"endTime":1711.2,"body":"all looking up at the sky. 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And in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1734.18,"endTime":1738.92,"body":"ways, I feel like that's almost"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1738.92,"endTime":1743.3,"body":"the posture that I've tried to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1738.92,"endTime":1743.3,"body":"take, whether it is with my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1743.33,"endTime":1746.36,"body":"children, or it is with a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1743.33,"endTime":1746.36,"body":"community of, you know, other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1746.36,"endTime":1749.96,"body":"beliefs or it is, you know, out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1746.36,"endTime":1749.96,"body":"in the mountains here or, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1749.96,"endTime":1752.6299999999999,"body":"know, moving through our lives,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1749.96,"endTime":1752.6299999999999,"body":"whatever else, like what have we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1753.02,"endTime":1756.3799999999999,"body":"been through? And what does it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1753.02,"endTime":1756.3799999999999,"body":"look like to begin to wake up to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1756.3799999999999,"endTime":1759.32,"body":"everything that's already right"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1756.3799999999999,"endTime":1759.32,"body":"there? If you don't have it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1759.56,"endTime":1762.05,"body":"sorted into boxes about what's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1759.56,"endTime":1762.05,"body":"God's and what's not."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1762.71,"endTime":1766.55,"body":"Yeah, that's so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1762.71,"endTime":1766.55,"body":"good. 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And these mountaintop"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1788.15,"endTime":1792.65,"body":"experiences are, are good, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1788.15,"endTime":1792.65,"body":"he hold on to it. But it's that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1792.68,"endTime":1796.91,"body":"that moment when your daughter"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1792.68,"endTime":1796.91,"body":"says I can't believe now we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1797.21,"endTime":1802.58,"body":"we've slept through this, that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1797.21,"endTime":1802.58,"body":"we remember that the every day"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1802.6399999999999,"endTime":1808.16,"body":"and the ordinary is beauty. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1802.6399999999999,"endTime":1808.16,"body":"there's beautiful things there"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1808.16,"endTime":1811.22,"body":"too. 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That"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1889.07,"endTime":1891.86,"body":"is one that I have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1889.07,"endTime":1891.86,"body":"chased around a lot, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1892.52,"endTime":1896.06,"body":"it's so waited for so many of us"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1892.52,"endTime":1896.06,"body":"and yet it has been such a key"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1896.06,"endTime":1901.28,"body":"part of my own experience of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1896.06,"endTime":1901.28,"body":"healing and an understanding."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1901.28,"endTime":1904.07,"body":"And I think, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1901.28,"endTime":1904.07,"body":"maybe some of it, like I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1904.07,"endTime":1907.58,"body":"remember, there's some, like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1904.07,"endTime":1907.58,"body":"maybe it's like, some stubborn"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1907.58,"endTime":1911.54,"body":"little part of me, that is like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1907.58,"endTime":1911.54,"body":"still wants to hang on to things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":1911.54,"endTime":1914.87,"body":"that have mattered, right? 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And we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2104.4100000000003,"endTime":2106.93,"body":"need to have a path for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2104.4100000000003,"endTime":2106.93,"body":"grappling with that we need to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2106.93,"endTime":2110.23,"body":"have a path for changing our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2106.93,"endTime":2110.23,"body":"mind we need to have a path and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2110.23,"endTime":2116.05,"body":"normalizing of shifting and and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2110.23,"endTime":2116.05,"body":"then of living into something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2116.05,"endTime":2118.33,"body":"better and something different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2116.05,"endTime":2118.33,"body":"that question What are you going"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2118.33,"endTime":2120.97,"body":"to do now? That's that's, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2118.33,"endTime":2120.97,"body":"think, a question from the Holy"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2120.97,"endTime":2121.66,"body":"Spirit actually,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2122.139,"endTime":2125.559,"body":"yeah, that it's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2122.139,"endTime":2125.559,"body":"so helpful to reframe repentance"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2125.589,"endTime":2129.519,"body":"like that, because it is, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2125.589,"endTime":2129.519,"body":"know, metanoia and that in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2129.519,"endTime":2133.599,"body":"Greek means to have a paradigm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2129.519,"endTime":2133.599,"body":"shift to have a mind change."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2134.229,"endTime":2139.689,"body":"Alan Hurst says to have your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2134.229,"endTime":2139.689,"body":"mind blown like that. As and,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2139.899,"endTime":2144.159,"body":"you know, he talks through the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2139.899,"endTime":2144.159,"body":"you curve of unlearning having"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2144.159,"endTime":2147.909,"body":"your paradigm shift and then"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2144.159,"endTime":2147.909,"body":"relearning new practices going"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2147.909,"endTime":2150.969,"body":"towards something new. And I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2147.909,"endTime":2150.969,"body":"think that's really helpful that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2150.969,"endTime":2156.489,"body":"now it's not just a shame based."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2150.969,"endTime":2156.489,"body":"I'm sorry, I did something bad"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2156.519,"endTime":2161.049,"body":"If I promise I won't do it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2156.519,"endTime":2161.049,"body":"again. But it's actually"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2222.029,"endTime":2226.139,"body":"relearning new practices and new"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2222.029,"endTime":2226.139,"body":"ways and doing something"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2226.139,"endTime":2228.809,"body":"different this time. And I think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2226.139,"endTime":2228.809,"body":"that's going to be helpful for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2228.809,"endTime":2234.569,"body":"us in the, in the wilderness"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2228.809,"endTime":2234.569,"body":"that what we're doing is for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2234.569,"endTime":2235.319,"body":"repentance."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2236.58,"endTime":2238.74,"body":"That's what it is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2236.58,"endTime":2238.74,"body":"your earlier question about,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2238.74,"endTime":2243.6,"body":"like protecting our culture or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2238.74,"endTime":2243.6,"body":"moment versus not? Maybe that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2243.6,"endTime":2246.81,"body":"even part of it. Right? I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2243.6,"endTime":2246.81,"body":"that metanoia that changing of a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2246.81,"endTime":2250.29,"body":"mind that leads to the changing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2246.81,"endTime":2250.29,"body":"of a life? Like that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2250.29,"endTime":2253.41,"body":"the invitation even that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2250.29,"endTime":2253.41,"body":"waiting for us there? Yes."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2253.8,"endTime":2258.15,"body":"Very, very, very"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2253.8,"endTime":2258.15,"body":"much so very much. So. One of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2258.15,"endTime":2261.33,"body":"the things that you you talk"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2258.15,"endTime":2261.33,"body":"about in your book is is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2261.36,"endTime":2267.12,"body":"peacemaking that we're going to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2261.36,"endTime":2267.12,"body":"be active in the wilderness and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2267.12,"endTime":2273.63,"body":"active for for peacemaking, what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2267.12,"endTime":2273.63,"body":"are the practices in that for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2273.63,"endTime":2273.96,"body":"you?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2275.58,"endTime":2278.1,"body":"This is one of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2275.58,"endTime":2278.1,"body":"ones I'm worst at, I'll just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2278.1,"endTime":2283.38,"body":"like preface. This is the one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2278.1,"endTime":2283.38,"body":"where I have like I am, this is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2283.38,"endTime":2286.92,"body":"like a daily, a daily thing for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2283.38,"endTime":2286.92,"body":"me, it is not an area where I've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2286.92,"endTime":2290.55,"body":"arrived. And I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2286.92,"endTime":2290.55,"body":"that's because, like, one part,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2290.55,"endTime":2294.54,"body":"this socialization of being a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2290.55,"endTime":2294.54,"body":"woman in the church, where, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2294.54,"endTime":2297.69,"body":"know, let alone being Canadian,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2294.54,"endTime":2297.69,"body":"right. And like just having this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2297.69,"endTime":2301.47,"body":"high value on like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2297.69,"endTime":2301.47,"body":"politeness and kindness of being"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2301.47,"endTime":2305.52,"body":"fine, you know, all the time."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2301.47,"endTime":2305.52,"body":"But then even this other element"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2305.52,"endTime":2308.52,"body":"of like, if you do the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2305.52,"endTime":2308.52,"body":"Enneagram, but like, I'm an I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2308.52,"endTime":2311.64,"body":"what's called like an Enneagram"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2308.52,"endTime":2311.64,"body":"nine, which basically means,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2311.64,"endTime":2314.82,"body":"like, pretty much every major"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2311.64,"endTime":2314.82,"body":"sin and regret in my life traces"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2314.82,"endTime":2319.56,"body":"its way back to me wanting to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2314.82,"endTime":2319.56,"body":"avoid conflict. And spoiler"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2319.56,"endTime":2325.05,"body":"alert for you, that's not the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2319.56,"endTime":2325.05,"body":"way of peace. And so this has"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2325.05,"endTime":2327.81,"body":"been one of those ones that is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2325.05,"endTime":2327.81,"body":"very much an active thing for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2327.81,"endTime":2331.41,"body":"me, of learning that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2327.81,"endTime":2331.41,"body":"peacekeeping is not the same"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2331.41,"endTime":2334.86,"body":"thing as peacemaking. And that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2331.41,"endTime":2334.86,"body":"by its very nature, peacemaking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2334.86,"endTime":2338.31,"body":"will sometimes be disruptive,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2334.86,"endTime":2338.31,"body":"that it will be something that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2338.31,"endTime":2341.22,"body":"means that that has that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2338.31,"endTime":2341.22,"body":"invitation to it. And I've even"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2341.22,"endTime":2344.43,"body":"looked at what even we've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2341.22,"endTime":2344.43,"body":"experienced within the church, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2344.43,"endTime":2350.04,"body":"would say, particularly maybe in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2344.43,"endTime":2350.04,"body":"the last 10 years or so, where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2350.04,"endTime":2353.19,"body":"there has been this dynamic of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2350.04,"endTime":2353.19,"body":"that almost feels apocalyptic."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2353.91,"endTime":2357.36,"body":"And when I use that word,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2353.91,"endTime":2357.36,"body":"Apocalypse, I mean it in more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2357.36,"endTime":2359.37,"body":"that traditional, like Greek"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2357.36,"endTime":2359.37,"body":"sense, like it means an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2359.37,"endTime":2362.91,"body":"unveiling, right? That that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2359.37,"endTime":2362.91,"body":"there's been a revelation here."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2363.3,"endTime":2365.76,"body":"And so in a lot of ways, it has"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2363.3,"endTime":2365.76,"body":"felt like all the things that we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2365.76,"endTime":2369.72,"body":"used to like kind of tacitly or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2365.76,"endTime":2369.72,"body":"politely pretend we're there,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2369.99,"endTime":2372.78,"body":"because it's suited, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2369.99,"endTime":2372.78,"body":"certain power narratives and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2372.78,"endTime":2375.03,"body":"structures for us not to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2372.78,"endTime":2375.03,"body":"acknowledge them. They've all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2375.03,"endTime":2377.37,"body":"been dragged kicking and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2375.03,"endTime":2377.37,"body":"screaming into the light, right."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2377.4,"endTime":2380.01,"body":"And now, now, there's no going"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2377.4,"endTime":2380.01,"body":"back, like everything,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2380.04,"endTime":2383.01,"body":"everything is out there has been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2380.04,"endTime":2383.01,"body":"in Apocalypse, you're not wrong,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2383.01,"endTime":2386.34,"body":"pandemic politics, all of it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2383.01,"endTime":2386.34,"body":"We're in the midst of an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2386.34,"endTime":2389.31,"body":"apocalypse. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2386.34,"endTime":2389.31,"body":"that's maybe where the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2389.31,"endTime":2393.18,"body":"invitation for peacemaking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2389.31,"endTime":2393.18,"body":"really began to take on. I don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2393.18,"endTime":2397.59,"body":"like muscle and scaffolding and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2393.18,"endTime":2397.59,"body":"like structure to me, to be able"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2397.59,"endTime":2401.7,"body":"to say, it's not a matter of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2397.59,"endTime":2401.7,"body":"pretending to be fine. And it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2401.7,"endTime":2404.91,"body":"not an absence of conflict, it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2401.7,"endTime":2404.91,"body":"actually is going to look like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2404.91,"endTime":2409.32,"body":"embodied justice. And Dr. Cornel"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2404.91,"endTime":2409.32,"body":"West calls it being like love in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2409.32,"endTime":2413.91,"body":"public. This is a way to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2409.32,"endTime":2413.91,"body":"actually embody that, which"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2413.91,"endTime":2416.34,"body":"means getting really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2413.91,"endTime":2416.34,"body":"comfortable, really comfortable"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2416.34,"endTime":2419.25,"body":"with discomfort, and means"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2416.34,"endTime":2419.25,"body":"making your peace with being"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2419.25,"endTime":2422.79,"body":"misunderstood and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2419.25,"endTime":2422.79,"body":"misrepresented. It means making"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2422.79,"endTime":2426.51,"body":"mistakes, it means trying and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2422.79,"endTime":2426.51,"body":"getting it wrong. It means"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2426.51,"endTime":2430.92,"body":"having hard conversations. It"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2426.51,"endTime":2430.92,"body":"can mean you know, going into"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2430.92,"endTime":2433.62,"body":"areas or places where we don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2430.92,"endTime":2433.62,"body":"fully understand it taking the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2433.62,"endTime":2436.32,"body":"posture of a learner instead of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2433.62,"endTime":2436.32,"body":"an expert for the first time in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2436.32,"endTime":2438.84,"body":"our lives. I mean, God, there's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2436.32,"endTime":2438.84,"body":"nothing we all have loved more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2438.84,"endTime":2440.88,"body":"than acting like an expert in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2438.84,"endTime":2440.88,"body":"our own lives. And in every"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2440.88,"endTime":2443.79,"body":"single thing that comes across"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2440.88,"endTime":2443.79,"body":"our desk, which maybe comes back"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2443.79,"endTime":2446.4,"body":"to that thing of saying, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2443.79,"endTime":2446.4,"body":"I'm going, I'm going to be able"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2446.4,"endTime":2450.06,"body":"to be a learner in this. So I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2446.4,"endTime":2450.06,"body":"think that sometimes the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2450.09,"endTime":2455.4,"body":"embodiment of of peacemaking for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2450.09,"endTime":2455.4,"body":"me, has actually often been in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2455.43,"endTime":2459.72,"body":"an invitation to engagement."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2455.43,"endTime":2459.72,"body":"That right when I am most, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2459.72,"endTime":2462.36,"body":"again, everybody's different,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2459.72,"endTime":2462.36,"body":"right? Some people are born with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2462.99,"endTime":2466.2,"body":"very good ability to engage in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2462.99,"endTime":2466.2,"body":"conflict and a very good ability"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2466.2,"endTime":2470.01,"body":"to navigate those things. That"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2466.2,"endTime":2470.01,"body":"is not my story. So for someone"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2470.01,"endTime":2474.21,"body":"like me being able to say, what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2470.01,"endTime":2474.21,"body":"does engagement look like? What"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2474.21,"endTime":2476.46,"body":"does it look like to keep"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2474.21,"endTime":2476.46,"body":"showing up? What does it look"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2476.46,"endTime":2479.46,"body":"like? What is what is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2476.46,"endTime":2479.46,"body":"peacemaking look like here,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2479.67,"endTime":2482.97,"body":"instead of just maintaining the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2479.67,"endTime":2482.97,"body":"status quo, which turns out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2482.97,"endTime":2486.27,"body":"doesn't actually benefit"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2482.97,"endTime":2486.27,"body":"anybody. And I think that those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2486.27,"endTime":2489.09,"body":"are invitations, I'll be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2486.27,"endTime":2489.09,"body":"probably grappling with forever."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2490.38,"endTime":2491.82,"body":"This I don't think it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2490.38,"endTime":2491.82,"body":"something that's ever going to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2491.82,"endTime":2494.88,"body":"come like super easy to me. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2491.82,"endTime":2494.88,"body":"I think that's an invitation"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2494.88,"endTime":2497.94,"body":"that we almost encounter in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2494.88,"endTime":2497.94,"body":"wilderness is to say, what does"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2497.94,"endTime":2500.67,"body":"it look like to be a peacemaker"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2497.94,"endTime":2500.67,"body":"instead of just a peacekeeper?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2500.67,"endTime":2504.36,"body":"What does it look like to not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2500.67,"endTime":2504.36,"body":"settle for being fine? And just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2504.36,"endTime":2506.7,"body":"everybody kind of being a little"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2504.36,"endTime":2506.7,"body":"more polite. Granted, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2506.7,"endTime":2508.53,"body":"Canadian, I would settle for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2506.7,"endTime":2508.53,"body":"everybody being a little more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2508.53,"endTime":2512.91,"body":"polite. But there is still an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2508.53,"endTime":2512.91,"body":"invitation to good conflict and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2512.91,"endTime":2516.45,"body":"beautiful disagreement and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2512.91,"endTime":2516.45,"body":"actually journeying with each"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2516.45,"endTime":2521.94,"body":"other or In spaces, that maybe"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2516.45,"endTime":2521.94,"body":"don't feel quite as at home for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2521.94,"endTime":2524.28,"body":"us yet, while we're learning"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2521.94,"endTime":2524.28,"body":"some of those things,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2524.79,"endTime":2528.45,"body":"when we're first"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2524.79,"endTime":2528.45,"body":"get introduced to the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2528.45,"endTime":2533.79,"body":"wilderness, that we're like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2528.45,"endTime":2533.79,"body":"this is not comfortable, is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2533.79,"endTime":2539.82,"body":"isolating alone. Sometimes our"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2533.79,"endTime":2539.82,"body":"peacemaking has a very hard edge"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2539.82,"endTime":2544.23,"body":"to it that is not really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2539.82,"endTime":2544.23,"body":"helpful. And the spaces that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2544.23,"endTime":2549.36,"body":"were were leaving as we're going"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2544.23,"endTime":2549.36,"body":"towards new spaces and new"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2549.36,"endTime":2555.63,"body":"things, what is the ways to tell"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2549.36,"endTime":2555.63,"body":"truth and speak truth and be"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2555.63,"endTime":2562.86,"body":"peacemakers in a way that shows"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2555.63,"endTime":2562.86,"body":"love and care, but actually"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2563.37,"endTime":2568.38,"body":"helps people process? What's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2563.37,"endTime":2568.38,"body":"going on? Is there a way to do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2568.38,"endTime":2572.13,"body":"that? Or do we just ignore other"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2568.38,"endTime":2572.13,"body":"people and go through our own"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2572.13,"endTime":2572.52,"body":"journey?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2574.17,"endTime":2577.14,"body":"While you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2574.17,"endTime":2577.14,"body":"definitely do things on a date?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2577.14,"endTime":2582.03,"body":"Well, you know, it's an it's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2577.14,"endTime":2582.03,"body":"hard thing, because everybody's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2582.03,"endTime":2585.72,"body":"situation that they're in is so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2582.03,"endTime":2585.72,"body":"unique, and so different. And so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2585.78,"endTime":2589.38,"body":"the things that I would say,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2585.78,"endTime":2589.38,"body":"maybe wouldn't be as applicable"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2589.38,"endTime":2593.94,"body":"to someone who's maybe in a very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2589.38,"endTime":2593.94,"body":"intense situation. I think, for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2593.94,"endTime":2598.35,"body":"me, some of the things that have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2593.94,"endTime":2598.35,"body":"been really, really helpful in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2598.35,"endTime":2601.23,"body":"the midst of all of that is,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2598.35,"endTime":2601.23,"body":"first of all, stop acting, like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2601.53,"endTime":2606.84,"body":"speaking truth is not loving."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2601.53,"endTime":2606.84,"body":"Like, it just, it's, it's, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2606.84,"endTime":2609.66,"body":"think that's even a dichotomy"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2606.84,"endTime":2609.66,"body":"that I had within some of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2609.66,"endTime":2612.78,"body":"churches, or faith spaces, where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2609.66,"endTime":2612.78,"body":"I found myself was like, Well, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2612.78,"endTime":2615.81,"body":"got to speak the truth in love,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2612.78,"endTime":2615.81,"body":"you know, which was code for,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2615.99,"endTime":2618.99,"body":"I'm gonna just say, whatever the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2615.99,"endTime":2618.99,"body":"heck I want. And you could just,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2619.05,"endTime":2623.43,"body":"you know, whatever. That's not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2619.05,"endTime":2623.43,"body":"love. And I think one of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2623.43,"endTime":2626.61,"body":"things that has been really, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2623.43,"endTime":2626.61,"body":"I say this, because I got wrong"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2626.61,"endTime":2630.39,"body":"so often, so don't don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2626.61,"endTime":2630.39,"body":"misunderstand me, I think one of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2630.39,"endTime":2633.72,"body":"the things that really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2630.39,"endTime":2633.72,"body":"profoundly reset me in this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2633.72,"endTime":2637.71,"body":"area, was understanding that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2633.72,"endTime":2637.71,"body":"just because I'm so sure I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2637.71,"endTime":2640.83,"body":"right, doesn't mean that I get a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2637.71,"endTime":2640.83,"body":"pass on the fruit of the Spirit."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2642.12,"endTime":2645.27,"body":"It doesn't mean that somehow I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2642.12,"endTime":2645.27,"body":"got a hall pass, or, or an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2645.27,"endTime":2650.13,"body":"exemption from having to or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2645.27,"endTime":2650.13,"body":"wanting to embody things like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2650.13,"endTime":2653.1,"body":"love and joy and peace and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2650.13,"endTime":2653.1,"body":"patience and kindness and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2653.1,"endTime":2655.95,"body":"goodness, and faithfulness and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2653.1,"endTime":2655.95,"body":"gentleness, let alone like self"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2655.95,"endTime":2661.98,"body":"control. And so realizing that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2655.95,"endTime":2661.98,"body":"being more right, or thinking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2661.98,"endTime":2666.69,"body":"I'm more right, is not an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2661.98,"endTime":2666.69,"body":"exemption to discipleship. And,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2666.75,"endTime":2669.51,"body":"and, and let alone an exemption"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2666.75,"endTime":2669.51,"body":"from how I want to move through"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2669.51,"endTime":2673.05,"body":"the world, and what I hope for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2669.51,"endTime":2673.05,"body":"in the world for each other."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2673.83,"endTime":2677.61,"body":"That was a reset for me, of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2673.83,"endTime":2677.61,"body":"allowing there to be room for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2677.61,"endTime":2680.85,"body":"how that's going to be embodied"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2677.61,"endTime":2680.85,"body":"for understanding even moments"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2680.85,"endTime":2683.61,"body":"when you do release, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2680.85,"endTime":2683.61,"body":"what, not every relationship is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2683.61,"endTime":2686.76,"body":"forever, not every community can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2683.61,"endTime":2686.76,"body":"be saved, not everything. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2686.76,"endTime":2690.18,"body":"even having that peace. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2686.76,"endTime":2690.18,"body":"that, that patience, and that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2690.18,"endTime":2695.37,"body":"release and kindness, for those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2690.18,"endTime":2695.37,"body":"inevitabilities of trying to,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2695.4,"endTime":2699.15,"body":"you know, kind of move through"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2695.4,"endTime":2699.15,"body":"with positive intent. And with,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2699.45,"endTime":2702.45,"body":"you know, an open hand, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2699.45,"endTime":2702.45,"body":"one of the things now, maybe you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2702.45,"endTime":2705.3,"body":"know, that I've been navigating"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2702.45,"endTime":2705.3,"body":"this for a number of years,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2705.3,"endTime":2707.58,"body":"something that has become more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2705.3,"endTime":2707.58,"body":"important to me over the years"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2707.58,"endTime":2712.2,"body":"is is normalizing letting people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2707.58,"endTime":2712.2,"body":"change, and normalizing and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2712.2,"endTime":2715.41,"body":"almost creating on ramps for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2712.2,"endTime":2715.41,"body":"that, that instead of that, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2715.41,"endTime":2718.8,"body":"think one of the things that we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2715.41,"endTime":2718.8,"body":"oftentimes run into, when we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2718.8,"endTime":2721.23,"body":"very first begin to kind of like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2718.8,"endTime":2721.23,"body":"evolve or transform or change"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2721.23,"endTime":2724.62,"body":"your mind, or we'll wrestle with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2721.23,"endTime":2724.62,"body":"things wherever else is, we can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2724.62,"endTime":2728.67,"body":"be almost angry at everybody"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2724.62,"endTime":2728.67,"body":"who's not where we are yet. And,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2728.82,"endTime":2732.96,"body":"and having room for people's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2728.82,"endTime":2732.96,"body":"process and transformation and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2732.96,"endTime":2736.5,"body":"change just the way that you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2732.96,"endTime":2736.5,"body":"need it. Process and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2736.5,"endTime":2740.67,"body":"transformation and change."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2736.5,"endTime":2740.67,"body":"That's really holy work, to hold"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2740.67,"endTime":2743.79,"body":"room for the adaptation and the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2740.67,"endTime":2743.79,"body":"evolution and the change of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2743.79,"endTime":2748.95,"body":"people. And to continue to have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2743.79,"endTime":2748.95,"body":"open doors and build on ramps,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2749.19,"endTime":2752.46,"body":"so that when people are ready to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2749.19,"endTime":2752.46,"body":"cross that threshold, or when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2752.46,"endTime":2754.95,"body":"they get thrown over it Body and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2752.46,"endTime":2754.95,"body":"Soul whether they liked it or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2754.95,"endTime":2757.47,"body":"not, because of whatever has"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2754.95,"endTime":2757.47,"body":"happened in their life, we all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2757.47,"endTime":2759.93,"body":"know and have had those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2757.47,"endTime":2759.93,"body":"experiences. We didn't choose"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2759.93,"endTime":2763.41,"body":"it, it shows us and we wound up"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2759.93,"endTime":2763.41,"body":"here whether we liked it or not."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2763.41,"endTime":2767.01,"body":"And we fought it screaming and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2763.41,"endTime":2767.01,"body":"crying the whole way. But there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2767.01,"endTime":2769.23,"body":"is this sense of like who would"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2767.01,"endTime":2769.23,"body":"be the person they would want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2769.23,"endTime":2772.53,"body":"turn to who would be their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2769.23,"endTime":2772.53,"body":"sanctuary that they wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2772.53,"endTime":2775.23,"body":"feel that sense of judgment and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2772.53,"endTime":2775.23,"body":"well, why are you here yet? And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2775.23,"endTime":2777.06,"body":"why haven't you gotten this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2775.23,"endTime":2777.06,"body":"figured out yet? Or or I don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2777.06,"endTime":2780.39,"body":"have room for your questions or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2777.06,"endTime":2780.39,"body":"whatever else. I think those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2780.39,"endTime":2784.08,"body":"would be helpful things for me"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2780.39,"endTime":2784.08,"body":"of how do I want to move through"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2784.08,"endTime":2788.55,"body":"those space? How do I keep those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2784.08,"endTime":2788.55,"body":"doors open? Keep an open hand"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2789.51,"endTime":2792.3,"body":"and normalize and make room for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2789.51,"endTime":2792.3,"body":"other people's healing and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2792.3,"endTime":2796.56,"body":"wholeness and transformation"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2792.3,"endTime":2796.56,"body":"journeys to not all the time."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2796.83,"endTime":2799.32,"body":"There's a lot of places where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2796.83,"endTime":2799.32,"body":"it's toxic or abusive or it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2799.32,"endTime":2802.68,"body":"wrong and you just you need to,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2799.32,"endTime":2802.68,"body":"you know, tap out and God bless"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2802.68,"endTime":2805.71,"body":"them and let someone else pick"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2802.68,"endTime":2805.71,"body":"up that baton. But if you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2805.71,"endTime":2807.72,"body":"able to that that's been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2805.71,"endTime":2807.72,"body":"helpful."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2809.37,"endTime":2812.01,"body":"You could answer"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2809.37,"endTime":2812.01,"body":"this or not, but how do we do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2812.01,"endTime":2818.16,"body":"that in a marriage relationship"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2812.01,"endTime":2818.16,"body":"where one person is, is moving A"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2818.16,"endTime":2824.58,"body":"new direction, transforming and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2818.16,"endTime":2824.58,"body":"changing. And the partner is not"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2824.64,"endTime":2830.58,"body":"there yet. And how do you give"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2824.64,"endTime":2830.58,"body":"room and space for one another?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2831.3,"endTime":2836.01,"body":"In a marriage where you're you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2831.3,"endTime":2836.01,"body":"may be going in two different"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2836.01,"endTime":2837.6,"body":"directions. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2837.66,"endTime":2839.46,"body":"I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2837.66,"endTime":2839.46,"body":"very real thing. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2839.46,"endTime":2843.12,"body":"it's hard, especially in our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2839.46,"endTime":2843.12,"body":"circles, because oftentimes, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2843.12,"endTime":2846.81,"body":"are kind of fed this narrative"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2843.12,"endTime":2846.81,"body":"of marriage, it's like, you've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2846.81,"endTime":2852.39,"body":"got to be in 100% agreement on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2846.81,"endTime":2852.39,"body":"everything. Which is cute. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2854.76,"endTime":2859.14,"body":"She says, from 23 years of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2854.76,"endTime":2859.14,"body":"marriage, but there's this. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2859.14,"endTime":2862.77,"body":"that was our story. That was our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2859.14,"endTime":2862.77,"body":"story. For sure. I was the first"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2862.77,"endTime":2867.63,"body":"one to deconstruct, and mine was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2862.77,"endTime":2867.63,"body":"messy. And it had huge"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2867.63,"endTime":2870.6,"body":"implications for our lives, it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2867.63,"endTime":2870.6,"body":"had huge implications for my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2870.6,"endTime":2876.18,"body":"husband's vocation, and work,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2870.6,"endTime":2876.18,"body":"had huge, you know, implications"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2876.18,"endTime":2878.37,"body":"on our location, and where we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2876.18,"endTime":2878.37,"body":"lived, and how we were raising"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2878.37,"endTime":2882.72,"body":"our kids and how we were moving"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2878.37,"endTime":2882.72,"body":"to and it was, it was hard. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2882.72,"endTime":2885.78,"body":"I think too, like, there's even"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2882.72,"endTime":2885.78,"body":"this sense, you feel this sense"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2885.78,"endTime":2889.11,"body":"of like guilt and shame, but yet"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2885.78,"endTime":2889.11,"body":"you can't undo it or stop it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2889.14,"endTime":2892.56,"body":"And it's what's happening. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2889.14,"endTime":2892.56,"body":"think one of the things that my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2892.56,"endTime":2896.97,"body":"husband did, during those years,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2892.56,"endTime":2896.97,"body":"and he has since gone through"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2896.97,"endTime":2900.18,"body":"his own experience of an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2896.97,"endTime":2900.18,"body":"evolving faith is just his was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2900.18,"endTime":2904.53,"body":"much more methodical and and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2900.18,"endTime":2904.53,"body":"slower, and maybe a bit more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2904.53,"endTime":2910.2,"body":"thoughtful than my, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2904.53,"endTime":2910.2,"body":"rage, room stuff. That there was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2910.2,"endTime":2914.16,"body":"this sense, I remember really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2910.2,"endTime":2914.16,"body":"early in that time, where he"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2914.16,"endTime":2916.95,"body":"just kind of said, we didn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2914.16,"endTime":2916.95,"body":"marry ministry, and we didn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2916.95,"endTime":2922.59,"body":"marry these opinions, we married"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2916.95,"endTime":2922.59,"body":"each other. And, and even this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2922.59,"endTime":2928.05,"body":"posture he took was, he just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2922.59,"endTime":2928.05,"body":"wasn't afraid. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2928.05,"endTime":2931.23,"body":"sometimes that's something that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2928.05,"endTime":2931.23,"body":"creeps into our marriages, or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2931.23,"endTime":2934.83,"body":"our or our closest"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2931.23,"endTime":2934.83,"body":"relationships, when one person"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2934.86,"endTime":2938.61,"body":"is changing, and oftentimes"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2934.86,"endTime":2938.61,"body":"changing very rapidly. And in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2938.61,"endTime":2941.7,"body":"very scary way, you feel like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2938.61,"endTime":2941.7,"body":"your values are coming apart,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2941.7,"endTime":2943.68,"body":"you feel like the, the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2941.7,"endTime":2943.68,"body":"foundation that you built this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2943.68,"endTime":2946.98,"body":"thing on is disappearing. And so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2943.68,"endTime":2946.98,"body":"for us, it was really key to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2946.98,"endTime":2949.17,"body":"say, well, what is the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2946.98,"endTime":2949.17,"body":"foundation? If it couldn't be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2949.17,"endTime":2952.14,"body":"this? And it can't be this? What"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2949.17,"endTime":2952.14,"body":"is the thing that is going to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2952.14,"endTime":2956.55,"body":"remain for us? And how do we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2952.14,"endTime":2956.55,"body":"practice loving each other and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2956.55,"endTime":2959.19,"body":"having room for each other and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2956.55,"endTime":2959.19,"body":"not being afraid for one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2959.19,"endTime":2963.78,"body":"another. And of course, again,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2959.19,"endTime":2963.78,"body":"not every marriage survive, some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2963.78,"endTime":2966.72,"body":"people need to navigate that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2963.78,"endTime":2966.72,"body":"better than others, I have found"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2966.72,"endTime":2971.85,"body":"that the ones who usually do are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2966.72,"endTime":2971.85,"body":"able to find the thing that is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2971.85,"endTime":2974.22,"body":"pulling them together more than"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2971.85,"endTime":2974.22,"body":"complete agreement on every"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2974.22,"endTime":2977.58,"body":"single opinion on how they move"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2974.22,"endTime":2977.58,"body":"through those things. And having"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2977.58,"endTime":2981.96,"body":"a even a sense of like, laughter"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2977.58,"endTime":2981.96,"body":"and fun and goodness, looking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2981.96,"endTime":2984.39,"body":"for ways that they are still"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2981.96,"endTime":2984.39,"body":"connecting, looking for ways"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2984.39,"endTime":2987.3,"body":"where they can not be afraid,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2984.39,"endTime":2987.3,"body":"and they can can have those,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2987.63,"endTime":2991.38,"body":"that level of acceptance and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2987.63,"endTime":2991.38,"body":"normalization with one another."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2992.04,"endTime":2995.85,"body":"I think that Brian and I have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2992.04,"endTime":2995.85,"body":"had this experience over all our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2995.85,"endTime":2998.52,"body":"years of marriage of both of us"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2995.85,"endTime":2998.52,"body":"feeling like we were married to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2998.52,"endTime":3002.27,"body":"very different people. Over that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":2998.52,"endTime":3002.27,"body":"time. Like in 23 years of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3002.27,"endTime":3004.4,"body":"marriage, we've been married to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3002.27,"endTime":3004.4,"body":"like 10 Different people each."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3005.6,"endTime":3009.38,"body":"And I think the thing that ended"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3005.6,"endTime":3009.38,"body":"up helping us whether it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3009.41,"endTime":3011.99,"body":"faith deconstruction or you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3009.41,"endTime":3011.99,"body":"know, other challenges that can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3011.99,"endTime":3016.34,"body":"happen in any long term"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3011.99,"endTime":3016.34,"body":"relationship is choosing each"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3016.34,"endTime":3020.81,"body":"other, over and over again. In"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3016.34,"endTime":3020.81,"body":"every new evolution, and every"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3020.81,"endTime":3024.89,"body":"new version of you. Every new"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3020.81,"endTime":3024.89,"body":"thing that you've learned every"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3024.89,"endTime":3027.89,"body":"new thing that has changed who"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3024.89,"endTime":3027.89,"body":"you are, whether it's shared"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3027.92,"endTime":3030.38,"body":"experiences, and stories are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3027.92,"endTime":3030.38,"body":"separate things or things from"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3030.38,"endTime":3033.02,"body":"the past that come back or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3030.38,"endTime":3033.02,"body":"whatever else was it looked like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3033.02,"endTime":3035.81,"body":"to keep choosing each other over"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3033.02,"endTime":3035.81,"body":"and over again. And that's it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3035.81,"endTime":3038.27,"body":"served us well. But of course,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3035.81,"endTime":3038.27,"body":"like I said, that will be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3038.27,"endTime":3039.17,"body":"everybody's story."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3039.77,"endTime":3042.41,"body":"Sarah, your book"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3039.77,"endTime":3042.41,"body":"Field Notes for the wilderness."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3042.74,"endTime":3045.32,"body":"I told you before we started"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3042.74,"endTime":3045.32,"body":"recording, I think this may be"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3045.32,"endTime":3051.38,"body":"my favorite book I've ever read."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3045.32,"endTime":3051.38,"body":"And it is. It is true. It is my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3051.38,"endTime":3056.3,"body":"favorite book. I think it's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3051.38,"endTime":3056.3,"body":"supplanted and the mots"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3056.3,"endTime":3063.02,"body":"traveling Marcy's. Oh. But she's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3056.3,"endTime":3063.02,"body":"still up there. So I still love"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3063.02,"endTime":3068.06,"body":"and it's so good. But what would"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3063.02,"endTime":3068.06,"body":"you hope your readers would get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3068.06,"endTime":3072.44,"body":"out of this? What do you want"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3068.06,"endTime":3072.44,"body":"them to, to come away with?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3072.92,"endTime":3077.75,"body":"Then? There's,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3072.92,"endTime":3077.75,"body":"there's a lot of aspects of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3077.75,"endTime":3081.74,"body":"this, that I would hope for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3077.75,"endTime":3081.74,"body":"people to, to, you know, carry"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3081.74,"endTime":3084.68,"body":"forward maybe with them I think,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3081.74,"endTime":3084.68,"body":"you know, there's there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3084.68,"endTime":3090.38,"body":"of aspects of this work in this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3084.68,"endTime":3090.38,"body":"this area that have emerged for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3090.38,"endTime":3093.56,"body":"me of being really important"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3090.38,"endTime":3093.56,"body":"things like being able to name"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3093.56,"endTime":3097.52,"body":"what you're for, and not just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3093.56,"endTime":3097.52,"body":"what you're against, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3097.67,"endTime":3100.73,"body":"understanding even the fact that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3097.67,"endTime":3100.73,"body":"this is a very normal stage of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3100.73,"endTime":3103.91,"body":"spiritual formation and, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3100.73,"endTime":3103.91,"body":"oftentimes to me, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3103.91,"endTime":3107.3,"body":"it's it's an altar for intimacy"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3103.91,"endTime":3107.3,"body":"with God in ways that you never"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3107.3,"endTime":3109.64,"body":"really fully, you know, kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3107.3,"endTime":3109.64,"body":"understood. There's things like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3109.64,"endTime":3114.71,"body":"even reclaiming joy, and you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3109.64,"endTime":3114.71,"body":"know, and, you know, things that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3114.71,"endTime":3117.08,"body":"we were always told were kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3114.71,"endTime":3117.08,"body":"silly like happiness and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3117.08,"endTime":3119.78,"body":"goodness. And learning to love"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3117.08,"endTime":3119.78,"body":"the world again, in particular,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3119.78,"endTime":3121.97,"body":"and mean, still, there's all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3119.78,"endTime":3121.97,"body":"those things that are there. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3121.97,"endTime":3124.67,"body":"I think ultimately the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3121.97,"endTime":3124.67,"body":"benediction that I really want"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3125.0,"endTime":3128.93,"body":"is for people to to know that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3125.0,"endTime":3128.93,"body":"they're not alone. And to begin"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3128.93,"endTime":3132.59,"body":"to notice and understand and see"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3128.93,"endTime":3132.59,"body":"the invitations of the Spirit"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3132.59,"endTime":3135.59,"body":"that exist, not in spite of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3132.59,"endTime":3135.59,"body":"where they have landed, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3135.59,"endTime":3139.01,"body":"of their questions or doubts or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3135.59,"endTime":3139.01,"body":"their experiences, but precisely"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3139.01,"endTime":3141.86,"body":"because of it. And that the love"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3139.01,"endTime":3141.86,"body":"of God is the thing that is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3141.86,"endTime":3144.44,"body":"carrying you and holding you and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3141.86,"endTime":3144.44,"body":"is the abundant life that you'd"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3144.44,"endTime":3148.94,"body":"be looking for all along that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3144.44,"endTime":3148.94,"body":"it's already here. I think it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3148.94,"endTime":3151.94,"body":"hard to be a person. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3148.94,"endTime":3151.94,"body":"it's hard to move through the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3151.94,"endTime":3157.64,"body":"world and all of us carry our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3151.94,"endTime":3157.64,"body":"own wounds and bruises and hurts"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3157.64,"endTime":3162.26,"body":"along the way. And so finding a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3157.64,"endTime":3162.26,"body":"way to be able to be even just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3162.26,"endTime":3167.06,"body":"one voice in their ear that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3162.26,"endTime":3167.06,"body":"saying, I'm not afraid, and you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3167.06,"endTime":3170.75,"body":"are very loved. And you're on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3167.06,"endTime":3170.75,"body":"the right track. I think that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3170.75,"endTime":3173.27,"body":"that's if that's all that people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3170.75,"endTime":3173.27,"body":"get from him, and I'm good."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3175.1,"endTime":3177.02,"body":"That's good. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3175.1,"endTime":3177.02,"body":"you know, there's, you're,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3177.08,"endTime":3180.98,"body":"you're not alone. And there's a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3177.08,"endTime":3180.98,"body":"lot of people that are going to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3180.98,"endTime":3185.54,"body":"be at a place where you've"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3180.98,"endTime":3185.54,"body":"landed, they've gotten to that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3185.57,"endTime":3190.76,"body":"can be community for you. Even"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3185.57,"endTime":3190.76,"body":"though a lot of times you have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3190.76,"endTime":3194.54,"body":"to leave one community, which is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3190.76,"endTime":3194.54,"body":"really painful, and difficult."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3194.57,"endTime":3200.54,"body":"And that process is not easy."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3194.57,"endTime":3200.54,"body":"And but there is community out"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3200.54,"endTime":3205.67,"body":"there that people will find each"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3200.54,"endTime":3205.67,"body":"other love will prevail, and to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3205.79,"endTime":3210.74,"body":"you know, we can be that for one"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3205.79,"endTime":3210.74,"body":"another as well. And so if you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3210.74,"endTime":3214.49,"body":"find yourself out there in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3210.74,"endTime":3214.49,"body":"wilderness, wandering around, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3214.52,"endTime":3218.6,"body":"know that there are people out"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3214.52,"endTime":3218.6,"body":"there as well, that wants to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3218.6,"endTime":3224.03,"body":"find you and be with you and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3218.6,"endTime":3224.03,"body":"journey with you as you move"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3224.03,"endTime":3227.63,"body":"forward. And so I just really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3224.03,"endTime":3227.63,"body":"want people to find that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3227.63,"endTime":3230.69,"body":"community. And it doesn't have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3227.63,"endTime":3230.69,"body":"to look like the community that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3230.69,"endTime":3233.6,"body":"you came from, it could look"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3230.69,"endTime":3233.6,"body":"totally different. And and be in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3233.6,"endTime":3237.83,"body":"different spaces. 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That's, That'll preach"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3246.08,"endTime":3247.79,"body":"Tasha, that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3247.79,"endTime":3251.12,"body":"will preach."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3247.79,"endTime":3251.12,"body":"Sarah, if you could go back to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3251.12,"endTime":3255.41,"body":"your 21 year old self, what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3251.12,"endTime":3255.41,"body":"advice would you give? Oh,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3256.43,"endTime":3260.18,"body":"that's a good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3256.43,"endTime":3260.18,"body":"question. Just like remembering"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3260.18,"endTime":3264.14,"body":"21 year old Sarah, I, there's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3260.18,"endTime":3264.14,"body":"million things that I would"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3264.14,"endTime":3270.41,"body":"want. 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You"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3329.18,"endTime":3332.96,"body":"know, I think especially at that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3332.96,"endTime":3336.86,"body":"20 or 21 year old stage, you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3332.96,"endTime":3336.86,"body":"just almost kind of like, trying"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3336.86,"endTime":3340.22,"body":"to fit someone else's best case"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3336.86,"endTime":3340.22,"body":"scenario for your life. Like is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3340.22,"endTime":3344.3,"body":"somehow able to, like be a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3340.22,"endTime":3344.3,"body":"printer copy. 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And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3362.63,"endTime":3365.84,"body":"so yeah, I think sometimes"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3365.84,"endTime":3368.24,"body":"that's the healer, you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3365.84,"endTime":3368.24,"body":"reclaiming, we almost get is to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3368.24,"endTime":3371.06,"body":"kind of realize like, yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3368.24,"endTime":3371.06,"body":"know, what, how you were made,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3371.09,"endTime":3374.18,"body":"how you are how you are in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3371.09,"endTime":3374.18,"body":"world. That's, that's okay."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3375.77,"endTime":3378.17,"body":"Good, Sarah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3375.77,"endTime":3378.17,"body":"anything you've been reading or"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3378.17,"endTime":3380.42,"body":"watching lately? You could"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3378.17,"endTime":3380.42,"body":"recommend? Oh,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3380.42,"endTime":3382.76,"body":"my gosh, so many"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3380.42,"endTime":3382.76,"body":"things. So first of all,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3382.76,"endTime":3386.51,"body":"watching a ton of hockey right"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3382.76,"endTime":3386.51,"body":"now. All right, well not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3386.51,"endTime":3391.19,"body":"surprise you at all. And so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3386.51,"endTime":3391.19,"body":"there's that one, obviously a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3391.19,"endTime":3394.13,"body":"ton of Pocky. But I have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3391.19,"endTime":3394.13,"body":"actually just finished reading"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3394.13,"endTime":3397.19,"body":"black liturgies by Col. Arthur"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3394.13,"endTime":3397.19,"body":"Riley. I don't know if you've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3397.25,"endTime":3400.64,"body":"come across it yet. But she does"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3397.25,"endTime":3400.64,"body":"this incident which she started"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3400.64,"endTime":3407.24,"body":"off as an Instagram account. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3400.64,"endTime":3407.24,"body":"it is, I struggle to think of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3407.24,"endTime":3410.72,"body":"anyone who is writing at the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3407.24,"endTime":3410.72,"body":"level that Cole is writing at,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3410.78,"endTime":3415.31,"body":"like just what she does with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3410.78,"endTime":3415.31,"body":"prose is truly remarkable. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3415.79,"endTime":3419.51,"body":"in her first book It was called"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3415.79,"endTime":3419.51,"body":"this hair flash. I remember this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3419.51,"endTime":3424.82,"body":"one line where she she said, on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3419.51,"endTime":3424.82,"body":"the day, on the day the world"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3424.82,"endTime":3428.06,"body":"broke, God became a seamstress."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3424.82,"endTime":3428.06,"body":"And she was talking about like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3428.06,"endTime":3430.94,"body":"in the Garden of Eden how God"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3428.06,"endTime":3430.94,"body":"like made clothes for Adam and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3430.94,"endTime":3433.82,"body":"Eve. And just that notion of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3430.94,"endTime":3433.82,"body":"like God is seamstress like just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3433.82,"endTime":3436.01,"body":"again, what she does with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3433.82,"endTime":3436.01,"body":"language what she does with like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3436.01,"endTime":3438.92,"body":"beauty and with the interior"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3436.01,"endTime":3438.92,"body":"life, I think especially for the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3438.92,"endTime":3442.85,"body":"black experience. It's just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3438.92,"endTime":3442.85,"body":"remarkable. And so if people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3442.85,"endTime":3446.42,"body":"have not started following Cole"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3442.85,"endTime":3446.42,"body":"yet or read her books yet both"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3446.42,"endTime":3448.79,"body":"of them are incredible, but the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3446.42,"endTime":3448.79,"body":"other one it just came out. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3448.79,"endTime":3451.97,"body":"then the other one I just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3448.79,"endTime":3451.97,"body":"finished with Kate bowlers have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3451.97,"endTime":3456.65,"body":"a beautiful, terrible day. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3451.97,"endTime":3456.65,"body":"so Kate is a tremendous teacher"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3456.65,"endTime":3460.31,"body":"and writer and scholar and all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3456.65,"endTime":3460.31,"body":"that all the things, but she"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3460.31,"endTime":3462.86,"body":"writes these books that are like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3460.31,"endTime":3462.86,"body":"almost like blessings or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3462.86,"endTime":3467.78,"body":"benedictions for the big a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3462.86,"endTime":3467.78,"body":"person. And this one call is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3467.78,"endTime":3470.9,"body":"called have a beautiful,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3467.78,"endTime":3470.9,"body":"terrible day. And I loved it. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3470.9,"endTime":3472.94,"body":"thought it was great. So those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3470.9,"endTime":3472.94,"body":"are those are two that I would"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3472.94,"endTime":3474.17,"body":"recommend. Those"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3474.17,"endTime":3477.83,"body":"are two amazing"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3474.17,"endTime":3477.83,"body":"recommendations. Really, really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3477.83,"endTime":3480.8,"body":"good. Well, I would highly"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3477.83,"endTime":3480.8,"body":"recommend people go out and get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3480.8,"endTime":3484.49,"body":"Field Notes for the wilderness."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3480.8,"endTime":3484.49,"body":"I will, I will shout it from the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3484.52,"endTime":3491.03,"body":"rooftops like Oh, thank you,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3484.52,"endTime":3491.03,"body":"Sara's book. Like, I if there is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3491.03,"endTime":3494.33,"body":"one book that you should get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3491.03,"endTime":3494.33,"body":"that I recommend, it should be"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3494.33,"endTime":3497.21,"body":"Sarah's book. Just go do it. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3494.33,"endTime":3497.21,"body":"nice words. Thank you get it."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3498.32,"endTime":3501.41,"body":"Sarah, thank you for this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3498.32,"endTime":3501.41,"body":"conversation. It was it was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3501.41,"endTime":3506.6,"body":"beautiful. It was open. It was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3501.41,"endTime":3506.6,"body":"loving. It was I think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3506.6,"endTime":3511.13,"body":"shepherding for people to move"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3506.6,"endTime":3511.13,"body":"through new spaces when they"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3511.13,"endTime":3515.57,"body":"find themselves in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3511.13,"endTime":3515.57,"body":"wilderness that you have said, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3515.57,"endTime":3520.1,"body":"have been there. I've done this."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3515.57,"endTime":3520.1,"body":"There are some things that have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3520.1,"endTime":3524.54,"body":"helped me. And so I think for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3520.1,"endTime":3524.54,"body":"for your book, I think there are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3524.54,"endTime":3527.54,"body":"some practices that people will"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3524.54,"endTime":3527.54,"body":"take and say this one's for me."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3528.47,"endTime":3531.08,"body":"And I know that you say"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3528.47,"endTime":3531.08,"body":"disregard the ones that aren't"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3531.11,"endTime":3535.07,"body":"and I think because we're all"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3531.11,"endTime":3535.07,"body":"individuals going through"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3535.1,"endTime":3539.57,"body":"different journeys. There will"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3535.1,"endTime":3539.57,"body":"be something for everybody here."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3539.63,"endTime":3543.92,"body":"And so, Sarah, man, it was such"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3539.63,"endTime":3543.92,"body":"a pleasure to talk to you. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3543.92,"endTime":3549.2,"body":"wish I had another 234 hours"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3543.92,"endTime":3549.2,"body":"that week. But we talked so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3549.2,"endTime":3550.61,"body":"thank you so much for this."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3550.82,"endTime":3552.47,"body":"Thank you. Thank"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bessey","startTime":3550.82,"endTime":3552.47,"body":"you. Thank you"}]}