{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.58,"body":"Our nervous"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.58,"body":"systems actually don't compare."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":4.62,"endTime":8.7,"body":"All they do is they experience"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":4.62,"endTime":8.7,"body":"the stress and stress that can"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":8.7,"endTime":12.9,"body":"become trauma in the absence of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":8.7,"endTime":12.9,"body":"a compassionate witness. What we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":12.9,"endTime":15.9,"body":"long for, what our nervous"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":12.9,"endTime":15.9,"body":"systems long for, is not"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":16.08,"endTime":17.58,"body":"comparison, but connection."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":22.86,"endTime":31.7,"body":"You Hello"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":31.7,"endTime":33.74,"body":"and welcome to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":31.7,"endTime":33.74,"body":"the shifting culture podcast in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":33.74,"endTime":36.68,"body":"which we have conversations"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":33.74,"endTime":36.68,"body":"about the culture we create and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":36.68,"endTime":40.16,"body":"the impact we can make. We long"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":36.68,"endTime":40.16,"body":"to see the body of Christ look"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":40.16,"endTime":45.82,"body":"like Jesus, I'm your host."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":40.16,"endTime":45.82,"body":"Joshua Johnson, I stepped into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":45.82,"endTime":49.96,"body":"the living room of a family that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":45.82,"endTime":49.96,"body":"just came to a new country. They"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":49.96,"endTime":53.5,"body":"were escaping war. The husband"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":49.96,"endTime":53.5,"body":"just fled from a job that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":53.5,"endTime":58.0,"body":"required torture. They had twin"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":53.5,"endTime":58.0,"body":"babies that died at three weeks"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":58.0,"endTime":63.54,"body":"old. This is Big T trauma, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":58.0,"endTime":63.54,"body":"didn't know what to say. I felt"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":63.54,"endTime":67.38,"body":"like I had no place to step into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":63.54,"endTime":67.38,"body":"their situation, because I never"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":67.38,"endTime":72.48,"body":"experienced anything like they"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":67.38,"endTime":72.48,"body":"had to go through. But I became"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":72.48,"endTime":76.38,"body":"a compassionate presence. I was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":72.48,"endTime":76.38,"body":"an empathetic listener to their"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":76.38,"endTime":82.16,"body":"story, and because of that, the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":76.38,"endTime":82.16,"body":"healing process could go on, but"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":82.16,"endTime":86.18,"body":"if I am to be a listener, I also"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":82.16,"endTime":86.18,"body":"need to do the work of healing"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":86.18,"endTime":91.16,"body":"what's within myself, because I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":86.18,"endTime":91.16,"body":"can't react out of my own"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":91.16,"endTime":95.78,"body":"woundedness. I can't regulate my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":91.16,"endTime":95.78,"body":"emotions by trying harder and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":95.78,"endTime":100.46,"body":"trying to be significant. I need"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":95.78,"endTime":100.46,"body":"to reckon with my disconnection"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":100.76,"endTime":104.5,"body":"and move towards a more embodied"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":100.76,"endTime":104.5,"body":"connection with God, myself,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":104.5,"endTime":108.34,"body":"others and creation. In this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":104.5,"endTime":108.34,"body":"episode, Chuck DeGroat,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":108.34,"endTime":111.64,"body":"Professor of pastoral care and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":108.34,"endTime":111.64,"body":"Christian spirituality at"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":111.64,"endTime":115.72,"body":"Western Theological Seminary,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":111.64,"endTime":115.72,"body":"dives into the wounds we all"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":115.72,"endTime":119.62,"body":"carry and the journey of healing"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":115.72,"endTime":119.62,"body":"what's within. Chuck shares his"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":119.62,"endTime":123.24,"body":"own story of disconnection and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":119.62,"endTime":123.24,"body":"isolation, and how he learned to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":123.24,"endTime":126.72,"body":"pay attention to the dashboard"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":123.24,"endTime":126.72,"body":"of his thoughts, emotions, body,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":126.72,"endTime":130.5,"body":"behaviors and relationships, to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":126.72,"endTime":130.5,"body":"uncover the deeper wounds"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":130.5,"endTime":134.7,"body":"beneath the surface. He unpacks"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":130.5,"endTime":134.7,"body":"the power of secure attachment"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":135.0,"endTime":137.7,"body":"and how we could find our way"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":135.0,"endTime":137.7,"body":"back to that sense of belonging,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":137.7,"endTime":141.02,"body":"worth and purpose, not just in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":137.7,"endTime":141.02,"body":"our minds, but in our very"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":141.02,"endTime":145.88,"body":"bodies, whether you're a high"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":141.02,"endTime":145.88,"body":"capacity striver or someone that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":145.88,"endTime":149.18,"body":"is just trying to survive, this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":145.88,"endTime":149.18,"body":"conversation will invite you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":149.18,"endTime":152.42,"body":"into a transformative process of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":149.18,"endTime":152.42,"body":"becoming more grounded,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":152.72,"endTime":157.16,"body":"regulated and connected to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":152.72,"endTime":157.16,"body":"yourself, others and to the God"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":157.46,"endTime":162.04,"body":"who loves you. So get ready to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":157.46,"endTime":162.04,"body":"lean in, because this is going"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":162.04,"endTime":166.42,"body":"to be a powerful and practical"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":162.04,"endTime":166.42,"body":"exploration of healing. What's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":166.42,"endTime":172.9,"body":"within here is my conversation"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":166.42,"endTime":172.9,"body":"with Chuck to grote, Chuck."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":172.9,"endTime":175.48,"body":"Welcome to shifting culture."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":172.9,"endTime":175.48,"body":"Really excited to have you on."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":175.48,"endTime":176.74,"body":"Thank you so much for joining"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":175.48,"endTime":176.74,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":177.4,"endTime":178.78,"body":"Yeah, it's good"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":177.4,"endTime":178.78,"body":"to be with you."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":179.62,"endTime":181.68,"body":"I'm really"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":179.62,"endTime":181.68,"body":"excited about this book,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":181.68,"endTime":186.72,"body":"Healing, what's within. We all"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":181.68,"endTime":186.72,"body":"have wounds who we all have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":186.96,"endTime":190.98,"body":"things in our life which we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":186.96,"endTime":190.98,"body":"actually don't take care of, we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":190.98,"endTime":196.08,"body":"don't heal from. And a lot of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":190.98,"endTime":196.08,"body":"people, when we think of of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":196.08,"endTime":201.74,"body":"trauma, we think of pretty big,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":196.08,"endTime":201.74,"body":"big T trauma. I worked with"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":201.74,"endTime":206.12,"body":"Syrian refugees. And so I worked"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":201.74,"endTime":206.12,"body":"with war refugees. We had, I had"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":206.12,"endTime":209.0,"body":"to learn how to deal with, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":206.12,"endTime":209.0,"body":"know, people coming out of a war"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":209.0,"endTime":213.08,"body":"zone and what to do with big T"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":209.0,"endTime":213.08,"body":"trauma. And I started to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":213.08,"endTime":216.98,"body":"minimize my own wounding and my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":213.08,"endTime":216.98,"body":"own pain and saying, Well, look"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":216.98,"endTime":221.08,"body":"at them. They have it much worse"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":216.98,"endTime":221.08,"body":"than me. And so I would react"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":221.08,"endTime":224.02,"body":"out of my own wounds, and I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":221.08,"endTime":224.02,"body":"didn't do the work and my own"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":224.02,"endTime":229.3,"body":"life. Does everybody have wounds"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":224.02,"endTime":229.3,"body":"like and do we all have things"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":229.3,"endTime":231.04,"body":"that we need to heal from?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":232.06,"endTime":236.26,"body":"Yeah, well, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":232.06,"endTime":236.26,"body":"think the answer is yes. You"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":236.26,"endTime":239.68,"body":"know, I think we're born into a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":236.26,"endTime":239.68,"body":"world that I mean, just think"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":239.68,"endTime":242.76,"body":"about how traumatic it is just"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":239.68,"endTime":242.76,"body":"to be born in the first place."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":242.76,"endTime":246.24,"body":"You're in the safety of the womb"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":242.76,"endTime":246.24,"body":"and you're you emerge into this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":246.24,"endTime":251.4,"body":"scary, cold world with people in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":246.24,"endTime":251.4,"body":"white lab coats and fluorescent"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":251.4,"endTime":255.96,"body":"lights. You know, that's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":251.4,"endTime":255.96,"body":"terrifying, actually, and, and,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":256.08,"endTime":259.86,"body":"and, and I do think that there"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":256.08,"endTime":259.86,"body":"is this sense of of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":259.86,"endTime":263.24,"body":"this shift from the safety. It's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":259.86,"endTime":263.24,"body":"analogous in some ways, to this,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":264.02,"endTime":267.08,"body":"to the to the early Genesis"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":264.02,"endTime":267.08,"body":"story. You know, the safety of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":267.08,"endTime":272.06,"body":"Eden and then Adam and Eve are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":267.08,"endTime":272.06,"body":"sort of born into this world of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":272.06,"endTime":277.16,"body":"shame and overwhelm and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":272.06,"endTime":277.16,"body":"hiddenness and self protection."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":277.16,"endTime":282.58,"body":"And you know, I do think that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":277.16,"endTime":282.58,"body":"there are wounds that all of us"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":282.58,"endTime":285.58,"body":"experience in one way or"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":282.58,"endTime":285.58,"body":"another, but they need not"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":285.58,"endTime":290.62,"body":"become traumatic wounds in the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":285.58,"endTime":290.62,"body":"sense that we all experience"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":290.62,"endTime":294.1,"body":"stress to be human is to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":290.62,"endTime":294.1,"body":"experience stress at some level,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":294.1,"endTime":298.6,"body":"but stress that overwhelms our"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":294.1,"endTime":298.6,"body":"nervous systems becomes trauma,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":299.08,"endTime":302.22,"body":"and oftentimes. That's in the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":299.08,"endTime":302.22,"body":"context of these, these things"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":302.22,"endTime":309.0,"body":"that happen to us that that are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":302.22,"endTime":309.0,"body":"not met with compassion. You"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":309.0,"endTime":313.2,"body":"might say, you know, are not met"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":309.0,"endTime":313.2,"body":"with a compassionate the care of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":313.2,"endTime":316.38,"body":"a compassionate friend or the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":313.2,"endTime":316.38,"body":"attunement of a compassionate"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":316.38,"endTime":319.8,"body":"parent. And so you know, a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":316.38,"endTime":319.8,"body":"child, two children may go"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":319.8,"endTime":323.54,"body":"through a similar situation, but"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":319.8,"endTime":323.54,"body":"one may be attuned to by a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":323.54,"endTime":327.02,"body":"compassionate parent, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":323.54,"endTime":327.02,"body":"another one left to fend for"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":327.02,"endTime":331.52,"body":"herself. The first experience is"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":327.02,"endTime":331.52,"body":"stress. The second experience is"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":331.52,"endTime":331.88,"body":"trauma."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":333.74,"endTime":336.26,"body":"So then what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":333.74,"endTime":336.26,"body":"then take us into, I know, in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":336.26,"endTime":338.84,"body":"the beginning of your book, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":336.26,"endTime":338.84,"body":"go into Genesis three, and the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":338.84,"endTime":342.76,"body":"questions that God asks Adam and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":338.84,"endTime":342.76,"body":"Eve after they've they've taken"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":342.76,"endTime":347.62,"body":"from the dream the knowledge of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":342.76,"endTime":347.62,"body":"good and evil. Yeah, so what are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":347.62,"endTime":350.32,"body":"those questions? And what are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":347.62,"endTime":350.32,"body":"the two different ways that we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":350.32,"endTime":353.56,"body":"can actually hear questions from"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":350.32,"endTime":353.56,"body":"God?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":354.34,"endTime":356.74,"body":"Yeah. It's really"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":354.34,"endTime":356.74,"body":"interesting. Right before you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":356.74,"endTime":360.16,"body":"and I got on, I was going back"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":356.74,"endTime":360.16,"body":"through old notes on my Mac, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":360.16,"endTime":363.36,"body":"I went all the way back to 2012"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":360.16,"endTime":363.36,"body":"in a silent retreat that I led"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":363.36,"endTime":368.64,"body":"where I was beginning to use"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":363.36,"endTime":368.64,"body":"these questions. And years ago"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":368.64,"endTime":373.74,"body":"that I was I was wrestling"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":368.64,"endTime":373.74,"body":"through those early texts of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":373.74,"endTime":376.26,"body":"Scripture, and I began to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":373.74,"endTime":376.26,"body":"wonder, because I grew up in the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":376.26,"endTime":380.28,"body":"reformed tradition, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":376.26,"endTime":380.28,"body":"still in what we would call here"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":380.34,"endTime":383.6,"body":"a more generously reformed"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":380.34,"endTime":383.6,"body":"tradition. But what I grew up"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":383.6,"endTime":387.5,"body":"hearing was that this is the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":383.6,"endTime":387.5,"body":"story of a great tragedy, this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":387.5,"endTime":390.8,"body":"is how it all went wrong. And"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":387.5,"endTime":390.8,"body":"what I sensed was that God was"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":390.8,"endTime":396.92,"body":"probably really mad. And as I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":390.8,"endTime":396.92,"body":"spent time with particularly"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":396.92,"endTime":400.84,"body":"that first question, where are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":396.92,"endTime":400.84,"body":"you? And did some work around"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":400.84,"endTime":404.32,"body":"it. Even work with the text. You"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":400.84,"endTime":404.32,"body":"know, God walking in the cool"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":404.32,"endTime":408.1,"body":"the day, probably the time of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":404.32,"endTime":408.1,"body":"the day when he would walk with"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":408.1,"endTime":413.2,"body":"Adam and Eve go on their daily"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":408.1,"endTime":413.2,"body":"walk. That God asking, Where are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":413.2,"endTime":415.84,"body":"you? That's the first question"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":413.2,"endTime":415.84,"body":"of the book of Lamentations in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":415.84,"endTime":418.9,"body":"the Hebrew. You know, it's a,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":415.84,"endTime":418.9,"body":"it's a question of of that comes"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":418.9,"endTime":423.66,"body":"out of grief and longing, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":418.9,"endTime":423.66,"body":"began to hear God's kindness."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":423.66,"endTime":428.4,"body":"And I think what what occurred"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":423.66,"endTime":428.4,"body":"to me was, in the midst of this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":428.4,"endTime":431.82,"body":"moment of profound pain,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":428.4,"endTime":431.82,"body":"because, because it's painful,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":431.88,"endTime":434.28,"body":"right? And Adam and Eve"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":431.88,"endTime":434.28,"body":"discovered they're naked,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":435.0,"endTime":439.08,"body":"there's a sense of, we need to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":435.0,"endTime":439.08,"body":"cover up. They sow fig leaves."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":439.08,"endTime":445.04,"body":"They hear God coming. They hide."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":439.08,"endTime":445.04,"body":"God comes with, in my opinion,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":445.04,"endTime":449.66,"body":"compassion and curiosity. God"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":445.04,"endTime":449.66,"body":"didn't have to come with a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":449.66,"endTime":451.82,"body":"question. You know, the Bible"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":449.66,"endTime":451.82,"body":"could have started in a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":451.82,"endTime":454.7,"body":"different place. It could have"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":451.82,"endTime":454.7,"body":"been some sort of, how could you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":454.7,"endTime":457.76,"body":"have done this? Now, that's a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":454.7,"endTime":457.76,"body":"question too, I guess. But you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":457.76,"endTime":461.8,"body":"know, you're so terrible, you've"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":457.76,"endTime":461.8,"body":"made a huge mistake. You know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":461.8,"endTime":466.96,"body":"the kinds of things I've said as"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":461.8,"endTime":466.96,"body":"a dad, by the way, but there is"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":466.96,"endTime":472.3,"body":"this sense of brokenheartedness,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":466.96,"endTime":472.3,"body":"of where are you? I miss you. We"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":472.3,"endTime":475.66,"body":"were having so much fun. We were"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":472.3,"endTime":475.66,"body":"going on long walks in the cool"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":475.66,"endTime":480.58,"body":"today. I miss us. I miss what we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":475.66,"endTime":480.58,"body":"what we've experienced. And, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":480.58,"endTime":483.12,"body":"know, I one of the things I say"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":480.58,"endTime":483.12,"body":"in there that I think is kind of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":483.12,"endTime":487.8,"body":"a well accepted truism among"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":483.12,"endTime":487.8,"body":"trauma therapists is that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":488.1,"endTime":490.92,"body":"disconnection is at the heart of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":488.1,"endTime":490.92,"body":"trauma. And of course,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":490.92,"endTime":493.74,"body":"disconnection and alienation are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":490.92,"endTime":493.74,"body":"at the heart of Genesis, three,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":493.74,"endTime":494.1,"body":"two."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":494.58,"endTime":497.94,"body":"I interviewed"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":494.58,"endTime":497.94,"body":"Elizabeth Oldfield, and she she"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":497.94,"endTime":502.82,"body":"talks about sin as disconnection"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":497.94,"endTime":502.82,"body":"and wanting to get us back into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":502.88,"endTime":506.36,"body":"connection, I think that's a lot"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":502.88,"endTime":506.36,"body":"of what you the work that you're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":506.36,"endTime":509.78,"body":"doing in here is bringing us"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":506.36,"endTime":509.78,"body":"back into connection with God"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":509.78,"endTime":516.02,"body":"and to ourselves and to others."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":509.78,"endTime":516.02,"body":"And we we isolate when we are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":516.02,"endTime":519.74,"body":"hurt and wounded, and we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":516.02,"endTime":519.74,"body":"actually disconnect from"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":519.8,"endTime":524.86,"body":"different things, where, where"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":519.8,"endTime":524.86,"body":"has that happened in your own"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":524.86,"endTime":528.16,"body":"life, where you have decided to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":524.86,"endTime":528.16,"body":"go the route of isolation"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":528.16,"endTime":532.72,"body":"disconnection, rather than"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":528.16,"endTime":532.72,"body":"longing for more connection?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":533.74,"endTime":539.74,"body":"Yep. How long do"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":533.74,"endTime":539.74,"body":"you have? Are you a licensed"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":539.74,"endTime":540.22,"body":"therapist?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":540.4,"endTime":542.46,"body":"Yeah, charged by"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":540.4,"endTime":542.46,"body":"the hour, so we're good."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":543.72,"endTime":546.84,"body":"I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":543.72,"endTime":546.84,"body":"early on there was, there was a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":546.84,"endTime":553.56,"body":"pretty early wound of my dad"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":546.84,"endTime":553.56,"body":"worked weeknights, weekdays,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":553.56,"endTime":557.04,"body":"weeknights, and I only saw him"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":553.56,"endTime":557.04,"body":"on weekends. And so there's real"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":557.04,"endTime":560.94,"body":"kind of loss of connection to my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":557.04,"endTime":560.94,"body":"dad that I that made me wonder."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":560.94,"endTime":563.72,"body":"I didn't really get this till I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":560.94,"endTime":563.72,"body":"was older, but maybe sort of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":563.72,"endTime":566.66,"body":"wonder like, does he love me?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":563.72,"endTime":566.66,"body":"Does he want to be with me? I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":567.44,"endTime":572.18,"body":"think my mom felt kind of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":567.44,"endTime":572.18,"body":"overwhelmed, and I think in the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":572.18,"endTime":576.32,"body":"midst of her overwhelm and some"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":572.18,"endTime":576.32,"body":"of her early trauma and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":576.32,"endTime":581.62,"body":"addiction, she we didn't often"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":576.32,"endTime":581.62,"body":"get the best of her, and that's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":581.62,"endTime":585.64,"body":"painful to say. My mom passed"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":581.62,"endTime":585.64,"body":"away at almost 90 last summer."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":585.64,"endTime":590.26,"body":"And you know, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":585.64,"endTime":590.26,"body":"reconciliation later on, but"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":590.26,"endTime":593.14,"body":"there was some pain there, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":590.26,"endTime":593.14,"body":"know. And I think as a young"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":593.14,"endTime":597.28,"body":"kid, I felt pretty lonely. I I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":593.14,"endTime":597.28,"body":"kind of felt like I was on my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":597.28,"endTime":600.24,"body":"own, that I had to go it on my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":597.28,"endTime":600.24,"body":"own. And, you know. There are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":600.24,"endTime":603.0,"body":"things in life that reinforce"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":600.24,"endTime":603.0,"body":"that. One big thing that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":603.0,"endTime":606.66,"body":"happened to me is I was fired"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":603.0,"endTime":606.66,"body":"from my first job in ministry in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":606.66,"endTime":612.66,"body":"the midst of a clash with a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":606.66,"endTime":612.66,"body":"senior pastor. And I very much"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":612.66,"endTime":618.54,"body":"came out of that with a sense of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":612.66,"endTime":618.54,"body":"of, well, I guess I just, I've"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":618.54,"endTime":624.44,"body":"got to forge my own path. I had"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":618.54,"endTime":624.44,"body":"this sense that that that would"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":624.44,"endTime":630.02,"body":"do me in the future to future"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":624.44,"endTime":630.02,"body":"pastoral jobs, that that perhaps"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":630.02,"endTime":633.92,"body":"the word would get out, that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":630.02,"endTime":633.92,"body":"somehow, some way, I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":633.92,"endTime":638.54,"body":"hireable. And I very much felt"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":633.92,"endTime":638.54,"body":"like, I guess I'm on my own. And"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":638.54,"endTime":641.14,"body":"the interesting thing there, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":638.54,"endTime":641.14,"body":"I think I reflect on this a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":641.14,"endTime":643.84,"body":"little bit in the book, is"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":641.14,"endTime":643.84,"body":"people were saying to me, Wow,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":643.84,"endTime":646.84,"body":"you're so resilient. You've"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":643.84,"endTime":646.84,"body":"really come out of this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":646.84,"endTime":653.08,"body":"stronger, better. But in inside,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":646.84,"endTime":653.08,"body":"I was ashamed. I had pulled"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":653.08,"endTime":660.28,"body":"away. I was I was coping in ways"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":653.08,"endTime":660.28,"body":"that I think were harmful to me"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":660.28,"endTime":664.26,"body":"and sabotaging to my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":660.28,"endTime":664.26,"body":"relationships and and it really"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":664.26,"endTime":668.1,"body":"took, I mean, it took almost a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":664.26,"endTime":668.1,"body":"decade. I mean, I ended up, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":668.4,"endTime":672.18,"body":"ended up in a hospital bed in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":668.4,"endTime":672.18,"body":"Mexico. I think my, you know the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":672.18,"endTime":676.02,"body":"phrase The Body Keeps the Score"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":672.18,"endTime":676.02,"body":"right? Well, body kept the score"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":676.26,"endTime":677.58,"body":"amidst my disconnection."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":678.42,"endTime":681.38,"body":"Man, that's,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":678.42,"endTime":681.38,"body":"there's a lot of stuff that you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":681.38,"endTime":686.0,"body":"didn't work through. I think we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":681.38,"endTime":686.0,"body":"all all do that. I think for me,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":686.0,"endTime":690.08,"body":"when when things have not gone"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":686.0,"endTime":690.08,"body":"my way, when I feel like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":690.08,"endTime":694.34,"body":"somebody, I was passed over for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":690.08,"endTime":694.34,"body":"something, and I'm I'm telling"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":694.34,"endTime":697.34,"body":"myself different stories. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":694.34,"endTime":697.34,"body":"one of the things that you just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":697.34,"endTime":700.9,"body":"said is, I'm going to forge my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":697.34,"endTime":700.9,"body":"own app. I think that's the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":700.9,"endTime":704.8,"body":"direction I lean towards. Is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":700.9,"endTime":704.8,"body":"when something doesn't go my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":704.8,"endTime":708.82,"body":"way, it's like, okay, I guess"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":704.8,"endTime":708.82,"body":"it's on me. I need to do this."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":708.88,"endTime":712.84,"body":"I'm all by myself. I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":708.88,"endTime":712.84,"body":"forge my own path. What were"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":712.84,"endTime":716.32,"body":"some of the steps to help you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":712.84,"endTime":716.32,"body":"move towards I know it took you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":716.32,"endTime":721.92,"body":"a decade, but help you move back"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":716.32,"endTime":721.92,"body":"to saying, Oh, I may need some,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":721.92,"endTime":726.18,"body":"some more connection, yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":721.92,"endTime":726.18,"body":"and healing and revealing of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":726.18,"endTime":728.4,"body":"what really was going on there,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":726.18,"endTime":728.4,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":728.4,"endTime":731.04,"body":"I mean, most"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":728.4,"endTime":731.04,"body":"people can probably identify"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":731.04,"endTime":733.92,"body":"with this was pretty mixed. You"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":731.04,"endTime":733.92,"body":"know, on the one hand, I think I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":733.92,"endTime":737.16,"body":"was engaging in ways that where"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":733.92,"endTime":737.16,"body":"I was disconnecting and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":737.16,"endTime":741.98,"body":"sabotaging in other ways. I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":737.16,"endTime":741.98,"body":"mean, the that note on my laptop"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":741.98,"endTime":745.82,"body":"that I found was during a season"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":741.98,"endTime":745.82,"body":"where I was leading retreats,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":745.82,"endTime":748.58,"body":"and I was inviting people to do"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":745.82,"endTime":748.58,"body":"the work of reconnection with"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":748.58,"endTime":753.38,"body":"God. And so it just shows how"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":748.58,"endTime":753.38,"body":"contradictory I am. We all are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":753.38,"endTime":758.48,"body":"right at some level. But I think"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":753.38,"endTime":758.48,"body":"what ended up happening was I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":758.48,"endTime":761.56,"body":"had the sense that there's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":758.48,"endTime":761.56,"body":"something off. There's inside,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":761.56,"endTime":765.04,"body":"you know, it's not comfortable"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":761.56,"endTime":765.04,"body":"to live with self alienation,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":765.04,"endTime":770.68,"body":"you know, to feel sort of out of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":765.04,"endTime":770.68,"body":"body. And it was showing up in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":770.68,"endTime":776.62,"body":"my body and anxiety. And I think"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":770.68,"endTime":776.62,"body":"I was coping with too much"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":776.62,"endTime":779.62,"body":"coffee in the morning and too"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":776.62,"endTime":779.62,"body":"much alcohol in the evening, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":779.62,"endTime":783.18,"body":"so I was using external things"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":779.62,"endTime":783.18,"body":"to regulate my my nervous"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":783.18,"endTime":789.0,"body":"system, and then I put a lot on"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":783.18,"endTime":789.0,"body":"that second church that I worked"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":789.0,"endTime":792.78,"body":"at. So I moved from Orlando out"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":789.0,"endTime":792.78,"body":"to San Francisco, where I took"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":792.78,"endTime":797.04,"body":"another pastoral role and and I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":792.78,"endTime":797.04,"body":"put everything into this role"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":797.22,"endTime":801.38,"body":"like it had to go well, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":797.22,"endTime":801.38,"body":"know, because the last one ended"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":801.5,"endTime":806.96,"body":"poorly, and so I've got to be a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":801.5,"endTime":806.96,"body":"superhero here. And by the way,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":806.96,"endTime":811.4,"body":"people were responding with,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":806.96,"endTime":811.4,"body":"Wow, you are doing great. And so"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":811.4,"endTime":814.52,"body":"I was quickly sort of elevated"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":811.4,"endTime":814.52,"body":"into the senior leadership and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":814.52,"endTime":819.14,"body":"given more responsibility and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":814.52,"endTime":819.14,"body":"and I think, I think that was"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":819.14,"endTime":823.84,"body":"taxing, you know, because I was"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":819.14,"endTime":823.84,"body":"living with this sense of, as"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":823.84,"endTime":827.26,"body":"long as I'm doing well and as"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":823.84,"endTime":827.26,"body":"long as I'm kind of forging"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":827.26,"endTime":831.52,"body":"ahead, I can keep my deep shame"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":827.26,"endTime":831.52,"body":"and anxiety at bay, and I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":831.52,"endTime":835.12,"body":"really, didn't have the kinds of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":831.52,"endTime":835.12,"body":"relationships to be vulnerable"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":835.12,"endTime":837.76,"body":"people to be vulnerable. So I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":835.12,"endTime":837.76,"body":"started in therapy. I did a bit"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":837.76,"endTime":841.74,"body":"of therapy, but I do think my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":837.76,"endTime":841.74,"body":"body caught up with me. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":842.34,"endTime":844.74,"body":"So then through"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":842.34,"endTime":844.74,"body":"that process, that if we don't"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":844.74,"endTime":847.74,"body":"realize we haven't actually"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":844.74,"endTime":847.74,"body":"dealt with some of our wounding,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":847.74,"endTime":851.58,"body":"how do we start to pay attention"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":847.74,"endTime":851.58,"body":"to our body and feel and know"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":851.58,"endTime":856.26,"body":"where what is going on? What"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":851.58,"endTime":856.26,"body":"does it look like to pay"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":856.26,"endTime":859.74,"body":"attention to our body and what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":856.26,"endTime":859.74,"body":"our body is telling us? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":859.74,"endTime":863.24,"body":"So you know, in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":859.74,"endTime":863.24,"body":"some cases, in my case, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":863.36,"endTime":866.06,"body":"can't help but pay attention,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":863.36,"endTime":866.06,"body":"because you end up in the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":866.06,"endTime":870.68,"body":"hospital. I think, for those of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":866.06,"endTime":870.68,"body":"us who are doing our work and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":870.68,"endTime":875.78,"body":"the work I do continuously now,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":870.68,"endTime":875.78,"body":"one of the things I talk about"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":875.84,"endTime":879.02,"body":"in the book is to pay attention"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":875.84,"endTime":879.02,"body":"to what I call the dashboard."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":879.14,"endTime":883.42,"body":"The dashboard, you know of a car"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":879.14,"endTime":883.42,"body":"gives you a sense of what might"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":883.42,"endTime":887.14,"body":"be going on underneath the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":883.42,"endTime":887.14,"body":"surface, right underneath in the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":887.14,"endTime":893.14,"body":"engine, and how I imagine it."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":887.14,"endTime":893.14,"body":"Our personal dashboard has like"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":893.14,"endTime":896.92,"body":"five spots on it. You know, it's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":893.14,"endTime":896.92,"body":"like five different components"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":896.92,"endTime":901.44,"body":"to it, our thoughts, our"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":896.92,"endTime":901.44,"body":"emotions are. Body sensations,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":902.1,"endTime":905.52,"body":"our behaviors and our"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":902.1,"endTime":905.52,"body":"interpersonal relationships,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":905.52,"endTime":908.22,"body":"sort of the quality of our"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":905.52,"endTime":908.22,"body":"interpersonal relationships, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":908.7,"endTime":912.36,"body":"and, and as as I have, people"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":908.7,"endTime":912.36,"body":"reflect on these things, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":912.36,"endTime":915.6,"body":"they begin to write things down"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":912.36,"endTime":915.6,"body":"that I call, you know, yellow"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":915.6,"endTime":918.36,"body":"lights on the dashboard or red"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":915.6,"endTime":918.36,"body":"lights on the dashboard, they'll"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":918.36,"endTime":921.98,"body":"begin to notice like, yeah, my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":918.36,"endTime":921.98,"body":"thoughts are very self"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":921.98,"endTime":926.12,"body":"judgmental and self contemptuous"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":921.98,"endTime":926.12,"body":"nowadays, my emotions, yeah, I'm"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":926.12,"endTime":929.84,"body":"feeling a lot of sadness, a lot"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":926.12,"endTime":929.84,"body":"of grief, a lot of shame. My"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":929.84,"endTime":936.2,"body":"body, yeah, I constantly feel"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":929.84,"endTime":936.2,"body":"like tired or my body constantly"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":936.2,"endTime":941.02,"body":"gives me this sense of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":936.2,"endTime":941.02,"body":"overwhelm. My behaviors, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":941.02,"endTime":944.02,"body":"am drinking too much, or"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":941.02,"endTime":944.02,"body":"overeating or numbing in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":944.02,"endTime":947.5,"body":"particular ways. My my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":944.02,"endTime":947.5,"body":"relationships. I really I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":947.5,"endTime":950.02,"body":"haven't had an honest"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":947.5,"endTime":950.02,"body":"conversation with my best friend"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":950.02,"endTime":953.44,"body":"in a long time, and I kind of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":950.02,"endTime":953.44,"body":"pulled away all people actually"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":953.44,"endTime":956.92,"body":"go through those, those five"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":953.44,"endTime":956.92,"body":"components and write those down,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":956.92,"endTime":961.08,"body":"and those are pretty good"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":956.92,"endTime":961.08,"body":"indicators of what's going on"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":961.08,"endTime":965.1,"body":"beneath the surface. And so"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":961.08,"endTime":965.1,"body":"that's sort of an initial way."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":965.58,"endTime":968.1,"body":"Oftentimes, if people are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":965.58,"endTime":968.1,"body":"skeptical of this or think it's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":968.1,"endTime":970.92,"body":"psychobabble, I'll go back to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":968.1,"endTime":970.92,"body":"Psalm 38 and I'll say, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":970.92,"endTime":976.44,"body":"David in Psalm 38 a pretty,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":970.92,"endTime":976.44,"body":"pretty, uh, honest and explicit"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":976.44,"endTime":979.92,"body":"terms actually names as"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":976.44,"endTime":979.92,"body":"thoughts, as emotions, as embody"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":979.92,"endTime":983.84,"body":"sensations as behaviors, as"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":979.92,"endTime":983.84,"body":"relationships, in a way that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":983.84,"endTime":986.0,"body":"gives us permission to name"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":983.84,"endTime":986.0,"body":"ours."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":987.38,"endTime":990.5,"body":"Man, I think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":987.38,"endTime":990.5,"body":"that's it's really important."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":990.92,"endTime":996.2,"body":"And so then what is the role of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":990.92,"endTime":996.2,"body":"now, I think because we were"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":996.2,"endTime":999.62,"body":"we've been wounded, we're in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":996.2,"endTime":999.62,"body":"isolation, a lot of times in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":999.62,"endTime":1004.38,"body":"disconnection. Through it, then"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":999.62,"endTime":1004.38,"body":"what's the role of others to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1004.38,"endTime":1009.84,"body":"bring us back to know what, what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1004.38,"endTime":1009.84,"body":"is going on under the surface?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1009.84,"endTime":1012.9,"body":"Because I could, I could give"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1009.84,"endTime":1012.9,"body":"you a bunch of symptoms, but I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1012.9,"endTime":1016.32,"body":"don't really know what's going"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1012.9,"endTime":1016.32,"body":"on under the surface. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1016.38,"endTime":1019.62,"body":"I do think you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1016.38,"endTime":1019.62,"body":"know that when we're in what we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1019.62,"endTime":1023.3,"body":"call dysregulation, which is"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1019.62,"endTime":1023.3,"body":"sort of the embodied state that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1023.3,"endTime":1026.42,"body":"I'm talking about, this embodied"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1023.3,"endTime":1026.42,"body":"state of disconnection when our"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1026.42,"endTime":1031.22,"body":"nervous systems are in a kind of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1026.42,"endTime":1031.22,"body":"coping mode, a survival mode,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1032.0,"endTime":1036.56,"body":"one of the surefire ways we know"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1032.0,"endTime":1036.56,"body":"of getting back to a sense of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1036.56,"endTime":1040.1,"body":"regulation, to getting back"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1036.56,"endTime":1040.1,"body":"home, as I call it, is through"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1040.1,"endTime":1043.96,"body":"co regulation, it's through two"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1040.1,"endTime":1043.96,"body":"people meeting with one another"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1043.96,"endTime":1047.62,"body":"in an honest, connected, attuned"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1043.96,"endTime":1047.62,"body":"kind of way, you know. And the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1047.86,"endTime":1050.32,"body":"interesting thing about it,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1047.86,"endTime":1050.32,"body":"Joshua is like you and I don't"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1050.32,"endTime":1055.18,"body":"know each other, but I pretty"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1050.32,"endTime":1055.18,"body":"quickly felt safe with you. I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1055.18,"endTime":1059.74,"body":"don't know, I don't know what it"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1055.18,"endTime":1059.74,"body":"is about you. Maybe it's because"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1059.74,"endTime":1062.28,"body":"we're, you know, two middle aged"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1059.74,"endTime":1062.28,"body":"men trying to survive in the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1062.28,"endTime":1062.64,"body":"world"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1064.2,"endTime":1065.22,"body":"the gray you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1064.2,"endTime":1065.22,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1067.26,"endTime":1070.26,"body":"but there's this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1067.26,"endTime":1070.26,"body":"immediate sense of safety. And I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1070.26,"endTime":1074.7,"body":"think when we feel a sense of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1070.26,"endTime":1074.7,"body":"safety with others, when you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1074.7,"endTime":1076.92,"body":"know you have a person in your"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1074.7,"endTime":1076.92,"body":"life who can really attune to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1076.92,"endTime":1083.36,"body":"you, ask good questions, your"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1076.92,"endTime":1083.36,"body":"body feels safe. You know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1083.36,"endTime":1089.54,"body":"there's this embodied sense of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1083.36,"endTime":1089.54,"body":"of I can relax my strategies for"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1089.54,"endTime":1095.24,"body":"survival and and when we do"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1089.54,"endTime":1095.24,"body":"that, we enter into a state. I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1095.24,"endTime":1097.94,"body":"won't get into too much, because"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1095.24,"endTime":1097.94,"body":"it gets a little technical, but"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1097.94,"endTime":1101.2,"body":"we enter into a nervous system"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1097.94,"endTime":1101.2,"body":"state that's actually a state of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1101.2,"endTime":1104.74,"body":"safety. I call it the still"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1101.2,"endTime":1104.74,"body":"waters of God. You know, the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1104.74,"endTime":1108.04,"body":"green pastures of God, place"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1104.74,"endTime":1108.04,"body":"where we feel rooted and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1108.04,"endTime":1111.1,"body":"grounded in love. And from that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1108.04,"endTime":1111.1,"body":"place, actually, we know"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1111.1,"endTime":1114.46,"body":"physiologically,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1111.1,"endTime":1114.46,"body":"neurobiologically, that we can"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1114.46,"endTime":1120.22,"body":"heal. Our bodies can heal. And"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1114.46,"endTime":1120.22,"body":"I'm talking about any, anything"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1120.22,"endTime":1124.98,"body":"from chronic illness to anxiety"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1120.22,"endTime":1124.98,"body":"disorders, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1124.98,"endTime":1127.98,"body":"everything between, you know."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1124.98,"endTime":1127.98,"body":"And so our bodies have an innate"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1127.98,"endTime":1134.64,"body":"capacity to heal, uh, but when"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1127.98,"endTime":1134.64,"body":"we are in a state that allows"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1134.64,"endTime":1138.06,"body":"that healing to take place. So"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1134.64,"endTime":1138.06,"body":"by the way, when I was in my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1138.06,"endTime":1142.82,"body":"state of alienation and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1138.06,"endTime":1142.82,"body":"disconnection, my body was in a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1143.72,"endTime":1148.34,"body":"well. Well, when they went in in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1143.72,"endTime":1148.34,"body":"this hospital in Mexico to take"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1148.34,"endTime":1152.3,"body":"out my gallbladder, the doctor"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1148.34,"endTime":1152.3,"body":"said, You are septic. Your"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1152.3,"endTime":1155.12,"body":"system is septic. You have to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1152.3,"endTime":1155.12,"body":"stay in the hospital longer than"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1155.12,"endTime":1160.34,"body":"we thought. Body was keeping the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1155.12,"endTime":1160.34,"body":"score. So clearly, my body"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1160.58,"endTime":1164.56,"body":"there's a toll attacks on my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1160.58,"endTime":1164.56,"body":"body from living in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1164.56,"endTime":1167.26,"body":"dysregulation and disconnection"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1164.56,"endTime":1167.26,"body":"for so long."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1224.92,"endTime":1228.1,"body":"So I think part"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1224.92,"endTime":1228.1,"body":"of that is being finding an"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1228.1,"endTime":1234.52,"body":"empathetic listener. If you can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1228.1,"endTime":1234.52,"body":"find somebody that's empathetic,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1234.52,"endTime":1239.34,"body":"that could listen, one of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1234.52,"endTime":1239.34,"body":"things that I know we have done,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1239.34,"endTime":1244.1399999999999,"body":"you know, my wife and I lead a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1239.34,"endTime":1244.1399999999999,"body":"missions organization, and we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1244.3799999999999,"endTime":1249.12,"body":"deal with some traumatic issues,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1244.3799999999999,"endTime":1249.12,"body":"and we've done a lot of critical"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1249.12,"endTime":1255.06,"body":"incident stress debriefs, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1249.12,"endTime":1255.06,"body":"so just after a really traumatic"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1255.36,"endTime":1258.56,"body":"event that happened. So, yeah, a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1255.36,"endTime":1258.56,"body":"couple in her home church had"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1258.56,"endTime":1262.4,"body":"somebody break into their house"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1258.56,"endTime":1262.4,"body":"that was there for 30 minutes."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1263.42,"endTime":1266.18,"body":"They had to go out on their"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1263.42,"endTime":1266.18,"body":"roof. She was pregnant. She was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1266.18,"endTime":1269.78,"body":"eight months pregnant, and it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1266.18,"endTime":1269.78,"body":"was just a scary time. The"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1269.78,"endTime":1273.32,"body":"police didn't come for a long"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1269.78,"endTime":1273.32,"body":"time. And so my wife went over"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1273.32,"endTime":1277.48,"body":"and, you know, just that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1273.32,"endTime":1277.48,"body":"evening, listened to the whole"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1277.48,"endTime":1281.98,"body":"story. What is the importance of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1277.48,"endTime":1281.98,"body":"of actually having somebody to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1281.98,"endTime":1285.04,"body":"sit there and listen and be an"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1281.98,"endTime":1285.04,"body":"empathetic listener?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1285.16,"endTime":1287.44,"body":"Yeah, that's, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1285.16,"endTime":1287.44,"body":"mean, that's hugely important,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1287.44,"endTime":1289.96,"body":"because that's where that CO"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1287.44,"endTime":1289.96,"body":"regulation happens. That's where"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1289.96,"endTime":1294.28,"body":"that sense of feeling mirrored,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1289.96,"endTime":1294.28,"body":"feeling attuned to happens with"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1294.28,"endTime":1297.48,"body":"this. This is a this is a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1294.28,"endTime":1297.48,"body":"biological inheritance, a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1297.48,"endTime":1300.54,"body":"spiritual inheritance. We need"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1297.48,"endTime":1300.54,"body":"attunement. We know in our"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1300.54,"endTime":1305.82,"body":"earliest hours we need as we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1300.54,"endTime":1305.82,"body":"emerge from our mom's wombs, we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1305.82,"endTime":1309.72,"body":"need to be held. We need to be"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1305.82,"endTime":1309.72,"body":"loved. Baby can't survive"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1309.72,"endTime":1313.08,"body":"without connection. And so this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1309.72,"endTime":1313.08,"body":"is a birthright. Connection is a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1313.08,"endTime":1318.62,"body":"birthright, and, and, and the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1313.08,"endTime":1318.62,"body":"Wild Thing is, is so many of us"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1318.74,"endTime":1323.66,"body":"live disconnected for so long,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1318.74,"endTime":1323.66,"body":"right? And so what your wife did"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1323.66,"endTime":1327.44,"body":"was, I'm sure she showed up in a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1323.66,"endTime":1327.44,"body":"way that provided that kind of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1327.86,"endTime":1332.3,"body":"attunement. Now, now where you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1327.86,"endTime":1332.3,"body":"know therapist Chuck gets"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1332.84,"endTime":1337.12,"body":"curious, then is your wife bears"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1332.84,"endTime":1337.12,"body":"some secondary trauma, perhaps"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1337.12,"endTime":1340.0,"body":"from sitting with I mean, I can"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1337.12,"endTime":1340.0,"body":"imagine the ministry that you've"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1340.0,"endTime":1343.48,"body":"done and what your bodies have"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1340.0,"endTime":1343.48,"body":"absorbed, and even if you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1343.48,"endTime":1347.08,"body":"haven't absorbed it directly,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1343.48,"endTime":1347.08,"body":"there are those of us who do the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1347.08,"endTime":1350.98,"body":"work of helping, where we absorb"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1347.08,"endTime":1350.98,"body":"a kind of secondary or adjacent"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1350.98,"endTime":1354.6399999999999,"body":"trauma, and we begin to notice"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1350.98,"endTime":1354.6399999999999,"body":"symptoms. We get kind of numb."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1354.6399999999999,"endTime":1357.9,"body":"We're not as you know, we don't"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1354.6399999999999,"endTime":1357.9,"body":"feel as much. We get depressed,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1357.9,"endTime":1361.68,"body":"we pull away. And so all of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1357.9,"endTime":1361.68,"body":"those things are things to pay"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1361.68,"endTime":1362.76,"body":"attention to as well,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1363.36,"endTime":1367.32,"body":"exactly, exactly"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1363.36,"endTime":1367.32,"body":"you you get to listen, you get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1367.32,"endTime":1369.72,"body":"to take things, and then you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1367.32,"endTime":1369.72,"body":"have to give it away, and you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1369.72,"endTime":1373.92,"body":"have to you also have to say"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1369.72,"endTime":1373.92,"body":"here and have somebody to be"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1373.92,"endTime":1378.02,"body":"able to listen to you. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1373.92,"endTime":1378.02,"body":"that's been crucial to us and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1378.02,"endTime":1382.58,"body":"our lives, and we need that. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1378.02,"endTime":1382.58,"body":"think part of us growing up, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1382.58,"endTime":1386.06,"body":"the woundings that we have, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1382.58,"endTime":1386.06,"body":"talk about in one of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1386.06,"endTime":1388.82,"body":"chapters in your book, you talk"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1386.06,"endTime":1388.82,"body":"a lot about attachment theory"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1389.12,"endTime":1391.8799999999999,"body":"and the different disordered"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1389.12,"endTime":1391.8799999999999,"body":"attachments that we do have, or"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1391.8799999999999,"endTime":1396.6399999999999,"body":"the secure attachment that we do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1391.8799999999999,"endTime":1396.6399999999999,"body":"have, yeah, what is? What is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1396.6399999999999,"endTime":1400.72,"body":"attachment theory and the steps"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1396.6399999999999,"endTime":1400.72,"body":"there. And why is it important"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1400.72,"endTime":1404.8,"body":"that we actually recognize where"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1400.72,"endTime":1404.8,"body":"we are in the midst of that?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1405.52,"endTime":1405.7,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1405.7,"endTime":1407.68,"body":"well, we just"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1405.7,"endTime":1407.68,"body":"sort of hinted at it. We're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1407.68,"endTime":1411.1,"body":"designed for secure attachment."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1407.68,"endTime":1411.1,"body":"We're designed to be seen,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1411.1,"endTime":1414.52,"body":"known, loved, delighted in."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1411.1,"endTime":1414.52,"body":"Oftentimes, I'll talk about the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1414.52,"endTime":1417.48,"body":"image of God in terms of three"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1414.52,"endTime":1417.48,"body":"things, a sense of worth,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1417.9,"endTime":1421.68,"body":"belonging and purpose, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1417.9,"endTime":1421.68,"body":"that's something that comes"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1422.04,"endTime":1426.18,"body":"that, that emerges out of the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1422.04,"endTime":1426.18,"body":"beauty of good, secure"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1426.18,"endTime":1430.86,"body":"attachment. But the reality is,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1426.18,"endTime":1430.86,"body":"is we? We are born into a broken"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1430.86,"endTime":1434.34,"body":"world and into broken"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1430.86,"endTime":1434.34,"body":"relationships. My parents, my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1434.34,"endTime":1438.86,"body":"parents, married in 56 I was"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1434.34,"endTime":1438.86,"body":"born in 70 and there was a lot"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1438.86,"endTime":1444.26,"body":"of addiction and talk of divorce"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1438.86,"endTime":1444.26,"body":"and counseling, but counseling"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1444.26,"endTime":1447.26,"body":"back then wasn't very good."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1444.26,"endTime":1447.26,"body":"There were miscarriages, it was"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1447.26,"endTime":1452.06,"body":"just a lot of pain. So I was"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1447.26,"endTime":1452.06,"body":"born into a lot of pain, and I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1452.06,"endTime":1454.94,"body":"was also born to be the hero"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1452.06,"endTime":1454.94,"body":"that would save my parents"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1454.94,"endTime":1459.82,"body":"marriage. You know, I was born"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1454.94,"endTime":1459.82,"body":"to be the glue that's a lot to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1459.82,"endTime":1464.5,"body":"absorb, and so I grew up with a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1459.82,"endTime":1464.5,"body":"mixture of anxious and avoidant"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1464.5,"endTime":1468.8799999999999,"body":"attachment, which is to say, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1464.5,"endTime":1468.8799999999999,"body":"know that the the anxious storms"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1468.8799999999999,"endTime":1473.74,"body":"of my mom's dysregulation, she"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1468.8799999999999,"endTime":1473.74,"body":"didn't want to lose another"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1473.74,"endTime":1477.3,"body":"baby. She loved me, and yet she"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1473.74,"endTime":1477.3,"body":"probably operated with too much"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1477.3,"endTime":1480.9,"body":"control my dad's distance and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1477.3,"endTime":1480.9,"body":"avoidance, and so I was"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1480.9,"endTime":1485.04,"body":"constantly craving more"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1480.9,"endTime":1485.04,"body":"connection with him. And so I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1485.04,"endTime":1490.92,"body":"emerged into adulthood with this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1485.04,"endTime":1490.92,"body":"kind of mixture of of anxiety. I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1490.92,"endTime":1494.6399999999999,"body":"need love. I want you to like"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1490.92,"endTime":1494.6399999999999,"body":"me. I'm going to pursue it and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1494.6399999999999,"endTime":1499.16,"body":"avoidance. No one's really gonna"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1494.6399999999999,"endTime":1499.16,"body":"love me anyway, and I'm never"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1499.16,"endTime":1503.12,"body":"really gonna amount to anything."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1499.16,"endTime":1503.12,"body":"And so there was shame. And by"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1503.12,"endTime":1506.78,"body":"the way, I went to seminary at"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1503.12,"endTime":1506.78,"body":"25 and no one was talking about"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1506.78,"endTime":1510.44,"body":"this stuff. And so it was all"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1506.78,"endTime":1510.44,"body":"about just figuring out your"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1510.44,"endTime":1514.6399999999999,"body":"theology and performing well,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1510.44,"endTime":1514.6399999999999,"body":"right? And so, boy, that that's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1514.6399999999999,"endTime":1519.22,"body":"a that's just a scary cocktail"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1514.6399999999999,"endTime":1519.22,"body":"for the formation of a pastor,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1519.22,"endTime":1523.6,"body":"right? And so my my anxious and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1519.22,"endTime":1523.6,"body":"avoidant attachments led me to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1524.44,"endTime":1528.28,"body":"some of those things showed up"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1524.44,"endTime":1528.28,"body":"in the early years of my marital"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1528.28,"endTime":1532.3,"body":"relationship, of course, and my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1528.28,"endTime":1532.3,"body":"friendships, where I was"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1532.3,"endTime":1536.68,"body":"constantly operating out of a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1532.3,"endTime":1536.68,"body":"push pull, of an anxious kind of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1536.68,"endTime":1541.44,"body":"tug. Do you like me? Will you be"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1536.68,"endTime":1541.44,"body":"my friend? Am I doing okay and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1541.44,"endTime":1546.12,"body":"an avoidant pulling away? I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1541.44,"endTime":1546.12,"body":"guess I'm just better on my own."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1546.9,"endTime":1551.58,"body":"I better just kind of protect"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1546.9,"endTime":1551.58,"body":"myself in this way, until I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1551.58,"endTime":1554.82,"body":"started doing my own work, until"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1551.58,"endTime":1554.82,"body":"my counseling professor in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1554.82,"endTime":1557.3,"body":"seminary said, Dude, you. Got"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1554.82,"endTime":1557.3,"body":"work to do."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1558.8,"endTime":1563.0,"body":"You got a lot of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1558.8,"endTime":1563.0,"body":"work to do. Let's work on"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1563.3,"endTime":1565.8799999999999,"body":"it. If you don't"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1563.3,"endTime":1565.8799999999999,"body":"do your work, you'll be"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1565.8799999999999,"endTime":1566.66,"body":"dangerous."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1567.5,"endTime":1573.8,"body":"Wow, wow. And I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1567.5,"endTime":1573.8,"body":"man, so if you have avoidant"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1574.1,"endTime":1578.92,"body":"detachment, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1574.1,"endTime":1578.92,"body":"attachment, of course,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1579.28,"endTime":1583.48,"body":"detachment, that is the actual"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1579.28,"endTime":1583.48,"body":"word that should be used right"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1583.48,"endTime":1587.62,"body":"there. If you're avoidant, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1583.48,"endTime":1587.62,"body":"but if you do have these"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1587.62,"endTime":1590.98,"body":"different attachments that are"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1587.62,"endTime":1590.98,"body":"avoidant or anxious, is there a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1590.98,"endTime":1595.96,"body":"way to start to heal those"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1590.98,"endTime":1595.96,"body":"things and get to a place of you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1595.96,"endTime":1599.58,"body":"feel like you have secure"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1595.96,"endTime":1599.58,"body":"attachment in the world, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1599.58,"endTime":1603.78,"body":"you're able to be connected to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1599.58,"endTime":1603.78,"body":"Yeah, to others again, and find"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1603.78,"endTime":1605.7,"body":"joy in the midst of it you're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1603.78,"endTime":1605.7,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1606.0,"endTime":1609.24,"body":"So what I also"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1606.0,"endTime":1609.24,"body":"say about attachment is, with"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1609.24,"endTime":1613.08,"body":"secure attachment, we we gained"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1609.24,"endTime":1613.08,"body":"a sense of ourselves. You know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1613.08,"endTime":1621.26,"body":"we have a stronger sense of who"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1613.08,"endTime":1621.26,"body":"we are We? We? We have a sense"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1621.26,"endTime":1627.08,"body":"of like authenticity as well. I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1621.26,"endTime":1627.08,"body":"call it the sense that I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1627.08,"endTime":1630.8,"body":"connected to purpose with the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1627.08,"endTime":1630.8,"body":"image of God, like when mom and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1630.8,"endTime":1635.78,"body":"dad are connected to us, they'll"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1630.8,"endTime":1635.78,"body":"champion our our voice in the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1635.78,"endTime":1638.68,"body":"world, our place in the world"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1635.78,"endTime":1638.68,"body":"you know to both Michael W"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1638.68,"endTime":1643.72,"body":"Smith, so old song that we would"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1638.68,"endTime":1643.72,"body":"remember, and so there's this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1643.72,"endTime":1648.1,"body":"sense of, I'm loved, and I can"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1643.72,"endTime":1648.1,"body":"enter into the world with"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1648.1,"endTime":1650.86,"body":"confidence. And when, when you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1648.1,"endTime":1650.86,"body":"don't have that secure"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1650.86,"endTime":1653.08,"body":"attachment, well, you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1650.86,"endTime":1653.08,"body":"be looking for, you gonna be"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1653.08,"endTime":1656.08,"body":"chasing after. You'll be chasing"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1653.08,"endTime":1656.08,"body":"us off, and say, chasing after"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1656.08,"endTime":1661.08,"body":"worth and belonging and purpose."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1656.08,"endTime":1661.08,"body":"Now, how do we how do we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1661.68,"endTime":1665.6399999999999,"body":"discover secure attachment as"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1661.68,"endTime":1665.6399999999999,"body":"adults, if we find ourselves"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1665.7,"endTime":1671.8799999999999,"body":"disconnected, well, we we find"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1665.7,"endTime":1671.8799999999999,"body":"our way to secure attachment in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1671.94,"endTime":1676.5,"body":"a therapist, a friend, a pastor,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1671.94,"endTime":1676.5,"body":"a spiritual director, a mentor,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1677.46,"endTime":1681.5,"body":"someone that provides that kind"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1677.46,"endTime":1681.5,"body":"of secure space. I do this with"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1681.5,"endTime":1685.16,"body":"folks all the time. I just spent"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1681.5,"endTime":1685.16,"body":"two hours before our time with"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1685.16,"endTime":1688.7,"body":"clients of mine as a therapist,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1685.16,"endTime":1688.7,"body":"where I get to create a space"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1688.7,"endTime":1693.02,"body":"for 5055, minutes where they're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1688.7,"endTime":1693.02,"body":"held and they're known, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1693.02,"endTime":1696.6399999999999,"body":"they're seen, all the things"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1693.02,"endTime":1696.6399999999999,"body":"that we longed for, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1696.6399999999999,"endTime":1702.1,"body":"and didn't get and and we can"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1696.6399999999999,"endTime":1702.1,"body":"find our way back there. I'm"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1702.1,"endTime":1705.6399999999999,"body":"really grateful in my earliest"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1702.1,"endTime":1705.6399999999999,"body":"days to sat with a man named"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1705.6399999999999,"endTime":1709.9,"body":"Roger shepherd who provided that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1705.6399999999999,"endTime":1709.9,"body":"space for me, and I remember"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1709.9,"endTime":1713.2,"body":"just feeling like there's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1709.9,"endTime":1713.2,"body":"something here. There's a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1713.26,"endTime":1716.3799999999999,"body":"there's a sense that I'm known"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1713.26,"endTime":1716.3799999999999,"body":"here, and a safety that I feel"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1716.3799999999999,"endTime":1720.42,"body":"here that I've never experienced"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1716.3799999999999,"endTime":1720.42,"body":"in any other relationship, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1720.42,"endTime":1724.3799999999999,"body":"he's allowing me to sort of grow"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1720.42,"endTime":1724.3799999999999,"body":"up and make some mistakes, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1724.3799999999999,"endTime":1727.5,"body":"he's, you know, and, and so, so"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1724.3799999999999,"endTime":1727.5,"body":"we're sort of working through"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1727.5,"endTime":1730.2,"body":"some things, like"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1727.5,"endTime":1730.2,"body":"developmentally even that we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1730.2,"endTime":1735.24,"body":"didn't work through when we were"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1730.2,"endTime":1735.24,"body":"younger, you know. So, so there,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1735.24,"endTime":1738.56,"body":"there's oftentimes with"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1735.24,"endTime":1738.56,"body":"attachment, we say that we can"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1738.56,"endTime":1741.98,"body":"experience earned secure"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1738.56,"endTime":1741.98,"body":"attachment, which is to say that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1741.98,"endTime":1746.12,"body":"through the work that we do of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1741.98,"endTime":1746.12,"body":"experiencing the kind of CO"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1746.12,"endTime":1750.2,"body":"regulation, safety, delight,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1746.12,"endTime":1750.2,"body":"work, all those things,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1750.2,"endTime":1753.32,"body":"belonging that we needed, that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1750.2,"endTime":1753.32,"body":"we can find our way back to some"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1753.32,"endTime":1755.6,"body":"sense of secure attachment. So"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1755.6,"endTime":1758.5,"body":"you're saying"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1755.6,"endTime":1758.5,"body":"there's hope for us, we can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1758.92,"endTime":1763.06,"body":"solve for you. Okay, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1758.92,"endTime":1763.06,"body":"think there was hope for me. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1763.12,"endTime":1764.5,"body":"was talking about other people."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1764.62,"endTime":1767.68,"body":"Yeah, there's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1764.62,"endTime":1767.68,"body":"hope. There's lots of hope, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1767.68,"endTime":1774.22,"body":"know. And I think, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1767.68,"endTime":1774.22,"body":"that's what I mean. I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1774.22,"endTime":1777.42,"body":"be doing what I do. You know, in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1774.22,"endTime":1777.42,"body":"my past, more roles and my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1777.42,"endTime":1782.4,"body":"counseling and even teaching in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1777.42,"endTime":1782.4,"body":"a seminary program here, if I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1782.4,"endTime":1787.08,"body":"didn't think that this would"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1782.4,"endTime":1787.08,"body":"amount to us experiencing a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1787.08,"endTime":1790.8,"body":"deeper sense of delight in God,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1787.08,"endTime":1790.8,"body":"you know, from God in our"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1790.8,"endTime":1793.92,"body":"relationships, yeah, there's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1790.8,"endTime":1793.92,"body":"hope that's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1793.92,"endTime":1796.3799999999999,"body":"good. You know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1793.92,"endTime":1796.3799999999999,"body":"one of the things that you you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1796.3799999999999,"endTime":1801.2,"body":"talked about, you know, in your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1796.3799999999999,"endTime":1801.2,"body":"both, in your attachments, after"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1801.2,"endTime":1804.56,"body":"your wounding, you were telling"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1801.2,"endTime":1804.56,"body":"yourself a certain type of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1804.56,"endTime":1809.18,"body":"story. Yeah, we always tell we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1804.56,"endTime":1809.18,"body":"tell ourselves. We're probably"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1809.18,"endTime":1811.94,"body":"our harshest critics, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1809.18,"endTime":1811.94,"body":"on the inside and we're telling"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1811.94,"endTime":1816.08,"body":"ourselves stories, yeah. How do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1811.94,"endTime":1816.08,"body":"we get back to a better story? A"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1816.08,"endTime":1821.74,"body":"story where is it actually more"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1816.08,"endTime":1821.74,"body":"reflects what God sees in us"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1821.74,"endTime":1824.08,"body":"than what we see in us."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1824.32,"endTime":1829.06,"body":"Yeah, yeah. This"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1824.32,"endTime":1829.06,"body":"reminds me of, I tell the story"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1829.06,"endTime":1832.84,"body":"in there of Isaiah, chapter 30,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1829.06,"endTime":1832.84,"body":"where Israel, you know, Israel,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1832.84,"endTime":1837.24,"body":"who you know is in a pretty"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1832.84,"endTime":1837.24,"body":"vulnerable position, is is"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1838.26,"endTime":1842.16,"body":"sensing that Assyria is going to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1838.26,"endTime":1842.16,"body":"invade, and if Assyria invades,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1842.16,"endTime":1845.4,"body":"it's over. And so in their"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1842.16,"endTime":1845.4,"body":"anxiety, they they tell the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1845.4,"endTime":1849.42,"body":"story that we can't, we can't do"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1845.4,"endTime":1849.42,"body":"this without help from Egypt."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1849.48,"endTime":1853.02,"body":"You know, Egypt, ironically, the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1849.48,"endTime":1853.02,"body":"nation that had enslaved them,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1853.44,"endTime":1858.08,"body":"and they live into this very old"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1853.44,"endTime":1858.08,"body":"story of. Uh, that that prompts"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1858.08,"endTime":1862.28,"body":"them to go back for help instead"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1858.08,"endTime":1862.28,"body":"of going to God and and I had"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1862.28,"endTime":1865.1,"body":"the sense that we live that out"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1862.28,"endTime":1865.1,"body":"too, like there are old stories"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1865.1,"endTime":1870.26,"body":"inside of me that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1865.1,"endTime":1870.26,"body":"your dad was busy. He didn't"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1870.26,"endTime":1873.1399999999999,"body":"take the time. No one really"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1870.26,"endTime":1873.1399999999999,"body":"wants to take the time. You're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1873.1399999999999,"endTime":1877.06,"body":"not worth the time. Now, I know"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1873.1399999999999,"endTime":1877.06,"body":"my dad loved me, and I know that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1877.06,"endTime":1879.4,"body":"that was in his heart, by the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1877.06,"endTime":1879.4,"body":"way, but that's what I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1879.4,"endTime":1884.44,"body":"internalized, and that's a very"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1879.4,"endTime":1884.44,"body":"old story. Or for my mom, you're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1884.44,"endTime":1888.16,"body":"never going to get it right. And"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1884.44,"endTime":1888.16,"body":"so I just had this sense that,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1889.24,"endTime":1892.48,"body":"well, shame is always kind of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1889.24,"endTime":1892.48,"body":"right underneath, simmering"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1892.48,"endTime":1895.9,"body":"right underneath, and just about"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1892.48,"endTime":1895.9,"body":"everything I do that somehow,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1895.9,"endTime":1901.1399999999999,"body":"some way, it's not nearly like"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1895.9,"endTime":1901.1399999999999,"body":"it used to be. But somehow,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1901.1399999999999,"endTime":1904.5,"body":"someway, even if, after I get"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1901.1399999999999,"endTime":1904.5,"body":"off with you, Joshua, there"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1904.5,"endTime":1907.74,"body":"might be some sense of like,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1904.5,"endTime":1907.74,"body":"boy, there are 100 different"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1907.74,"endTime":1910.5,"body":"ways that you could have done it"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1907.74,"endTime":1910.5,"body":"differently. Chuck, and you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1910.5,"endTime":1912.96,"body":"could have said this, you've"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1910.5,"endTime":1912.96,"body":"done that. And, oh, they're,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1913.02,"endTime":1915.96,"body":"they're, they're, think of all"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1913.02,"endTime":1915.96,"body":"the people are far more"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1915.96,"endTime":1919.34,"body":"articulate than you are, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1915.96,"endTime":1919.34,"body":"know. And these are old, old"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1919.34,"endTime":1923.78,"body":"wounds that have become stories"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1919.34,"endTime":1923.78,"body":"that I tell myself. And part of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1923.78,"endTime":1927.26,"body":"why I introduced the three"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1923.78,"endTime":1927.26,"body":"questions is to say God is so"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1927.26,"endTime":1930.32,"body":"kind and curious and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1927.26,"endTime":1930.32,"body":"compassionate and longs for you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1930.32,"endTime":1934.4,"body":"to know a better story. And I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1930.32,"endTime":1934.4,"body":"offer practices in there of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1934.4,"endTime":1939.04,"body":"embodying a better story as we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1934.4,"endTime":1939.04,"body":"remember, both in our own story"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1939.04,"endTime":1941.74,"body":"and from God's story, where"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1939.04,"endTime":1941.74,"body":"we've experienced worse and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1941.74,"endTime":1944.74,"body":"belonging and a sense of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1941.74,"endTime":1944.74,"body":"purpose. So"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1944.74,"endTime":1948.4,"body":"then, what is a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1944.74,"endTime":1948.4,"body":"good practice for us? Like, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1948.4,"endTime":1951.34,"body":"know you have practices at the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1948.4,"endTime":1951.34,"body":"end of every chapter, and it's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1951.34,"endTime":1955.84,"body":"fantastic. A lot of great work,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1951.34,"endTime":1955.84,"body":"yeah, that I could just do as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1955.84,"endTime":1959.58,"body":"I'm reading the book. So what's,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1955.84,"endTime":1959.58,"body":"what's an example of a practice"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1959.58,"endTime":1962.22,"body":"for us that we could get back to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":1959.58,"endTime":1962.22,"body":"that better story?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1962.6399999999999,"endTime":1966.12,"body":"Yeah, so one, one"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1962.6399999999999,"endTime":1966.12,"body":"is that I practice that I call"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1966.12,"endTime":1971.58,"body":"the timeline exercise, and it's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1966.12,"endTime":1971.58,"body":"simply put a horizontal line"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1971.58,"endTime":1975.0,"body":"down the center of a paper, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1971.58,"endTime":1975.0,"body":"I'll do this as I do counseling"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1975.0,"endTime":1980.78,"body":"with people where below the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1975.0,"endTime":1980.78,"body":"line, the horizontal line, we'll"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1980.78,"endTime":1985.04,"body":"think about how we experience"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1980.78,"endTime":1985.04,"body":"woundedness around our sense of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1985.04,"endTime":1988.76,"body":"worth and belonging at purpose."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1985.04,"endTime":1988.76,"body":"And what I find is people have"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1988.76,"endTime":1992.9,"body":"plenty of content for that. You"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1988.76,"endTime":1992.9,"body":"know, as mom and dad and coaches"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1992.9,"endTime":1995.72,"body":"and pastors, all sorts of people"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1992.9,"endTime":1995.72,"body":"in their lives, you know it's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1995.72,"endTime":1999.34,"body":"like, yeah, I didn't ever feel"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1995.72,"endTime":1999.34,"body":"like I belonged, and I heard"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1999.34,"endTime":2004.1399999999999,"body":"this message from my coach and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":1999.34,"endTime":2004.1399999999999,"body":"but above the line, people were"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2004.1399999999999,"endTime":2008.76,"body":"often surprised when I asked"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2004.1399999999999,"endTime":2008.76,"body":"them listen for whispers of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2008.76,"endTime":2012.24,"body":"worth and belonging and purpose"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2008.76,"endTime":2012.24,"body":"in your story, throughout your"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2012.24,"endTime":2017.42,"body":"story, even now, and they'll be"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2012.24,"endTime":2017.42,"body":"Like compelled to tears as they"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2017.42,"endTime":2022.4,"body":"remember, yeah, there was, there"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2017.42,"endTime":2022.4,"body":"was this consistent presence of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2022.4,"endTime":2026.0,"body":"my grandma, you know. And"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2022.4,"endTime":2026.0,"body":"whenever mom and dad weren't"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2026.0,"endTime":2028.52,"body":"around, you know, grandma would"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2026.0,"endTime":2028.52,"body":"be over, and she'd babysit me,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2028.52,"endTime":2033.2,"body":"and I'd always know I was"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2028.52,"endTime":2033.2,"body":"delighted in we're prone. We"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2094.18,"endTime":2097.3599999999997,"body":"know this research has told us"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2094.18,"endTime":2097.3599999999997,"body":"we're prone to remember what's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2097.3599999999997,"endTime":2101.46,"body":"wrong. We're prone to remember"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2097.3599999999997,"endTime":2101.46,"body":"the negative, and so my dog, my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2101.52,"endTime":2105.06,"body":"now adult daughters, remind me"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2101.52,"endTime":2105.06,"body":"of this all the time when they"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2105.06,"endTime":2108.66,"body":"say, Dad, I remember when you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2105.06,"endTime":2108.66,"body":"did this to us. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2108.66,"endTime":2112.08,"body":"but do you remember what I took"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2108.66,"endTime":2112.08,"body":"out to, like, ride go karts and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2112.08,"endTime":2115.02,"body":"get ice cream? And now I never"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2112.08,"endTime":2115.02,"body":"don't remember that, you know?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2115.02,"endTime":2121.04,"body":"So I invite people to not just"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2115.02,"endTime":2121.04,"body":"to listen for those whispers in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2121.04,"endTime":2125.6,"body":"their story, but from Scripture"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2121.04,"endTime":2125.6,"body":"to like invariably, there are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2125.6,"endTime":2130.04,"body":"texts that people will will"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2125.6,"endTime":2130.04,"body":"listen for and hear that are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2130.1,"endTime":2134.6600000000003,"body":"deeply reassuring to them, x,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2130.1,"endTime":2134.6600000000003,"body":"that remind them of God's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2134.7200000000003,"endTime":2137.8,"body":"delight. And I've got some"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2134.7200000000003,"endTime":2137.8,"body":"embodied practices that I invite"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2137.8,"endTime":2141.52,"body":"people into to to just sort of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2137.8,"endTime":2141.52,"body":"sit with them and allow them to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2141.52,"endTime":2145.06,"body":"kind of get into their bodies in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2141.52,"endTime":2145.06,"body":"a way that allows them to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2145.06,"endTime":2147.46,"body":"experience it more deeply. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2147.46,"endTime":2149.8,"body":"I think I'll go"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2147.46,"endTime":2149.8,"body":"back to the very beginning of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2149.8,"endTime":2154.9,"body":"what I was I was talking about"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2149.8,"endTime":2154.9,"body":"is that we we compare our"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2154.9,"endTime":2162.2400000000002,"body":"suffering to others, and we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2154.9,"endTime":2162.2400000000002,"body":"dismiss our suffering because"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2162.2400000000002,"endTime":2167.64,"body":"it's not as bad as other people."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2162.2400000000002,"endTime":2167.64,"body":"Yeah. How do we let ourselves"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2167.64,"endTime":2170.88,"body":"know, or let others know that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2167.64,"endTime":2170.88,"body":"their story matters, their"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2170.88,"endTime":2174.6,"body":"suffering matters as well, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2170.88,"endTime":2174.6,"body":"we don't have to compare?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2176.219,"endTime":2180.439,"body":"Yeah, yeah. I, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2176.219,"endTime":2180.439,"body":"find this a lot, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2180.439,"endTime":2184.159,"body":"know this, I've been involved in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2180.439,"endTime":2184.159,"body":"some, some work with churches"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2184.159,"endTime":2188.359,"body":"around issues of church abuse,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2184.159,"endTime":2188.359,"body":"pastoral abuse and trauma and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2188.359,"endTime":2192.019,"body":"things like that. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2188.359,"endTime":2192.019,"body":"even tell the story, I think, in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2192.019,"endTime":2195.199,"body":"there of of sitting with a group"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2192.019,"endTime":2195.199,"body":"of people who had been a part of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2195.199,"endTime":2198.879,"body":"a large staff, and they were"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2195.199,"endTime":2198.879,"body":"comparing stories like you were"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2198.879,"endTime":2201.759,"body":"just talking about, well, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2198.879,"endTime":2201.759,"body":"you were there for five years. I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2201.759,"endTime":2204.759,"body":"was only there for two months,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2201.759,"endTime":2204.759,"body":"and yours is far worse than mine"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2204.759,"endTime":2211.899,"body":"and and one of the things I said"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2204.759,"endTime":2211.899,"body":"to them is, our nervous systems"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2211.899,"endTime":2217.119,"body":"actually don't compare. All they"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2211.899,"endTime":2217.119,"body":"do is they experience the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2217.119,"endTime":2221.399,"body":"stress. Stress that can become"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2217.119,"endTime":2221.399,"body":"trauma in the absence of a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2221.399,"endTime":2224.759,"body":"compassionate witness. What we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2221.399,"endTime":2224.759,"body":"long for, what our nervous"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2224.759,"endTime":2228.359,"body":"systems long for, is not"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2224.759,"endTime":2228.359,"body":"comparison, but connection."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2230.219,"endTime":2233.279,"body":"Let's let go of the details"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2230.219,"endTime":2233.279,"body":"here, and let's really just hear"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2233.279,"endTime":2236.219,"body":"one another. You may have been"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2233.279,"endTime":2236.219,"body":"there for two months, but you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2236.219,"endTime":2239.539,"body":"had that that those interactions"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2236.219,"endTime":2239.539,"body":"with that senior pastor that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2239.539,"endTime":2243.679,"body":"were incredibly damaging. You"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2239.539,"endTime":2243.679,"body":"know, let's listen. It doesn't"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2243.679,"endTime":2246.859,"body":"matter what she went through. If"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2243.679,"endTime":2246.859,"body":"she went there for we could"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2246.859,"endTime":2250.279,"body":"listen to her, but we really"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2246.859,"endTime":2250.279,"body":"want to attune to your unique"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2250.279,"endTime":2253.519,"body":"story, because you're our"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2250.279,"endTime":2253.519,"body":"nervous systems are very"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2253.519,"endTime":2257.419,"body":"different, and the trauma will"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2253.519,"endTime":2257.419,"body":"be imprinted in ways that are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2257.539,"endTime":2261.699,"body":"radically different in different"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2257.539,"endTime":2261.699,"body":"people, and I've seen this over"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2261.699,"endTime":2265.239,"body":"25 years as a therapist. Now"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2261.699,"endTime":2265.239,"body":"I'll have people who come in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2265.239,"endTime":2269.259,"body":"who've been through very similar"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2265.239,"endTime":2269.259,"body":"experiences, but one story of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2269.259,"endTime":2273.879,"body":"abuses is not a not like"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2269.259,"endTime":2273.879,"body":"another, so I need to honor the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2273.879,"endTime":2278.819,"body":"uniqueness of people's unique"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2273.879,"endTime":2278.819,"body":"stories, their unique"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2279.119,"endTime":2283.859,"body":"experiences of pain, their"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2279.119,"endTime":2283.859,"body":"unique nervous systems. I I'd"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2283.859,"endTime":2286.679,"body":"say, I don't know if you've"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2283.859,"endTime":2286.679,"body":"heard of this category, but a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2286.679,"endTime":2292.259,"body":"highly sensitive person in HST,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2286.679,"endTime":2292.259,"body":"I was a highly sensitive child."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2292.259,"endTime":2296.039,"body":"I'm a highly sensitive, not the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2292.259,"endTime":2296.039,"body":"highest sensitivity, but I think"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2296.039,"endTime":2299.179,"body":"that plays a role in this. And"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2296.039,"endTime":2299.179,"body":"so there's a unique cocktail,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2299.539,"endTime":2304.279,"body":"you know, of human being that is"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2299.539,"endTime":2304.279,"body":"Joshua and is chuck that to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2304.279,"endTime":2304.759,"body":"honor."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2306.14,"endTime":2308.42,"body":"I think this is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2306.14,"endTime":2308.42,"body":"good. And I think one of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2308.42,"endTime":2312.62,"body":"things, well, I think everybody"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2308.42,"endTime":2312.62,"body":"needs this book, and everybody"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2312.74,"endTime":2317.68,"body":"needs to heal what his within"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2312.74,"endTime":2317.68,"body":"them. But one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2317.68,"endTime":2322.42,"body":"we do here, and my wife and I do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2317.68,"endTime":2322.42,"body":"a lot, so we train a lot of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2322.42,"endTime":2328.96,"body":"missionaries. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2322.42,"endTime":2328.96,"body":"church planters in this world, a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2328.96,"endTime":2335.92,"body":"lot of times people are, how do"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2328.96,"endTime":2335.92,"body":"I say this? They're actually"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2335.98,"endTime":2338.88,"body":"reverting back to they're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2335.98,"endTime":2338.88,"body":"actually using their wounded,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2338.94,"endTime":2343.5,"body":"woundedness to get energy for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2338.94,"endTime":2343.5,"body":"the for the work. So they're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2343.5,"endTime":2348.66,"body":"striving to go out to feel"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2343.5,"endTime":2348.66,"body":"significance, yes, in in"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2348.66,"endTime":2352.38,"body":"something. And so they're trying"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2348.66,"endTime":2352.38,"body":"to get their significance out of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2352.44,"endTime":2356.76,"body":"the good work that they do,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2352.44,"endTime":2356.76,"body":"rather than the worth that they"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2356.76,"endTime":2360.92,"body":"found and and who they are and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2356.76,"endTime":2360.92,"body":"who God has created them to be,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2362.12,"endTime":2366.86,"body":"as as we're training people for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2362.12,"endTime":2366.86,"body":"the the long haul, for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2366.86,"endTime":2370.52,"body":"especially for, you know, high"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2366.86,"endTime":2370.52,"body":"capacity strivers that,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2370.82,"endTime":2371.3,"body":"yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2371.36,"endTime":2374.48,"body":"how important is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2371.36,"endTime":2374.48,"body":"this work, this healing work,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2374.96,"endTime":2379.54,"body":"and what difference Is that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2374.96,"endTime":2379.54,"body":"going to make in our churches"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2379.6,"endTime":2382.6,"body":"and our disciples down the road?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2382.9,"endTime":2386.2,"body":"Yeah, oh, I It's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2382.9,"endTime":2386.2,"body":"such a good question, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2386.2,"endTime":2389.38,"body":"there's so many different ways"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2386.2,"endTime":2389.38,"body":"we can go. I'm just so glad you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2389.38,"endTime":2393.76,"body":"and your wife are so attuned to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2389.38,"endTime":2393.76,"body":"that reality, because it's often"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2393.76,"endTime":2397.98,"body":"the case if, if you've"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2393.76,"endTime":2397.98,"body":"experienced challenges and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2397.98,"endTime":2400.92,"body":"ministries, even some traumas of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2397.98,"endTime":2400.92,"body":"pain that you're you're going to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2400.92,"endTime":2407.88,"body":"chase another exciting situation"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2400.92,"endTime":2407.88,"body":"in an attempt to to regulate"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2407.88,"endTime":2410.58,"body":"your nervous system. I'm going"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2407.88,"endTime":2410.58,"body":"to try again. I'm going to I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2410.58,"endTime":2413.1,"body":"maybe I was doing that when I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2410.58,"endTime":2413.1,"body":"went out to San Francisco. I'm"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2413.1,"endTime":2415.5,"body":"going to try again. I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2413.1,"endTime":2415.5,"body":"enter into this really"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2415.5,"endTime":2421.4,"body":"challenging situation. I'm going"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2415.5,"endTime":2421.4,"body":"to do it better. And really what"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2421.4,"endTime":2424.58,"body":"we need to do in those kinds of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2421.4,"endTime":2424.58,"body":"situations is to slow down and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2424.58,"endTime":2428.42,"body":"to pay attention first to that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2424.58,"endTime":2428.42,"body":"dashboard and then underneath,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2428.42,"endTime":2432.44,"body":"to the engine, to the autonomic"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2428.42,"endTime":2432.44,"body":"nervous system and the reality"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2432.44,"endTime":2436.58,"body":"that that we might be living on"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2432.44,"endTime":2436.58,"body":"this kind of, what I call"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2436.58,"endTime":2440.38,"body":"sympathetic nervous system"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2436.58,"endTime":2440.38,"body":"hamster wheel. I I'll oftentimes"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2440.38,"endTime":2443.32,"body":"do these five day intensives"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2440.38,"endTime":2443.32,"body":"with pastors and missionaries,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2443.32,"endTime":2446.5,"body":"and I'll draw it up on the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2443.32,"endTime":2446.5,"body":"board. You know, your nervous"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2446.5,"endTime":2451.48,"body":"system was meant to be in this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2446.5,"endTime":2451.48,"body":"kind of centered place that I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2451.48,"endTime":2455.2,"body":"call home, the still waters of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2451.48,"endTime":2455.2,"body":"God. But you're living in your"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2455.2,"endTime":2458.58,"body":"the sympathetic storm this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2455.2,"endTime":2458.58,"body":"hamster wheel, and you're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2458.58,"endTime":2463.14,"body":"chasing after other hamster"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2458.58,"endTime":2463.14,"body":"wheels, other things that feel"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2463.14,"endTime":2467.58,"body":"exciting or thrilling, or life"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2463.14,"endTime":2467.58,"body":"giving or through approval"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2467.58,"endTime":2475.56,"body":"seeking, whatever it might be,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2467.58,"endTime":2475.56,"body":"in an attempt to offer some sort"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2475.56,"endTime":2478.82,"body":"of internal regulation, but"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2475.56,"endTime":2478.82,"body":"you're never Going to get it by"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2479.12,"endTime":2481.94,"body":"through the chase, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2479.12,"endTime":2481.94,"body":"whether it's some form of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2481.94,"endTime":2487.7,"body":"addiction or some sort of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2481.94,"endTime":2487.7,"body":"ministry workaholism that's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2487.94,"endTime":2490.88,"body":"really challenging, as you know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2487.94,"endTime":2490.88,"body":"because when your identity has"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2490.88,"endTime":2495.44,"body":"been wrapped around performing"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2490.88,"endTime":2495.44,"body":"or workaholics or whatever it is"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2495.86,"endTime":2499.78,"body":"to step off the hamster wheel,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2495.86,"endTime":2499.78,"body":"it's Like, I don't know who I am"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2499.78,"endTime":2504.04,"body":"without the hamster wheel. And"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2499.78,"endTime":2504.04,"body":"so it takes a lot of courage. It"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2504.04,"endTime":2507.46,"body":"takes a lot of support. Um,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2504.04,"endTime":2507.46,"body":"oftentimes, you know, when I'm"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2507.52,"endTime":2511.54,"body":"working with pastors, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2507.52,"endTime":2511.54,"body":"there's no way, like my my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2511.54,"endTime":2514.3,"body":"church sent me to you, Chuck, to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2511.54,"endTime":2514.3,"body":"get fixed so I could come back"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2514.3,"endTime":2518.52,"body":"and exert the same energy, or"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2514.3,"endTime":2518.52,"body":"more I was. You. And and so it's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2518.52,"endTime":2522.06,"body":"really risky in it, and often"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2518.52,"endTime":2522.06,"body":"say, I'm not sure that I'll be"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2522.06,"endTime":2527.94,"body":"able to keep my job if, if I do"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2522.06,"endTime":2527.94,"body":"this, I I've got a friend, Steve"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2527.94,"endTime":2530.76,"body":"Smith, who founded Potter Zen in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2527.94,"endTime":2530.76,"body":"the soul Care Institute. He"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2531.06,"endTime":2534.48,"body":"tells a story of pastoring this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2531.06,"endTime":2534.48,"body":"mega church and going to spend"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2534.48,"endTime":2537.72,"body":"some time with Dallas Willard."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2534.48,"endTime":2537.72,"body":"And then after his sabbatical,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2537.72,"endTime":2540.74,"body":"he came back a different person,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2537.72,"endTime":2540.74,"body":"and he realized I can't pastor"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2540.86,"endTime":2545.54,"body":"the way I used to, and it's just"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2540.86,"endTime":2545.54,"body":"not going to work. Okay. So,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2546.32,"endTime":2550.82,"body":"yeah, that's it's so, yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2546.32,"endTime":2550.82,"body":"then you step into the next"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2550.82,"endTime":2555.62,"body":"season of your life with hands"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2550.82,"endTime":2555.62,"body":"open and with with great sense"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2555.62,"endTime":2557.72,"body":"of awe and wonder as to what God"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2555.62,"endTime":2557.72,"body":"might do."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2559.1,"endTime":2561.76,"body":"You know, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2559.1,"endTime":2561.76,"body":"think in this day and age that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2561.76,"endTime":2568.06,"body":"we live in, we are more informed"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2561.76,"endTime":2568.06,"body":"with mental health issues than"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2568.06,"endTime":2573.28,"body":"we ever have been before. We"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2568.06,"endTime":2573.28,"body":"have more knowledge and more"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2573.28,"endTime":2578.7,"body":"expertise in what is happening"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2573.28,"endTime":2578.7,"body":"and what is going on, but there"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2578.7,"endTime":2583.98,"body":"is higher levels of depression"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2578.7,"endTime":2583.98,"body":"and anxiety than before as well."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2584.46,"endTime":2589.02,"body":"Yeah. How do, how do we move"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2584.46,"endTime":2589.02,"body":"from understanding the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2589.02,"endTime":2594.9,"body":"mechanisms of mental health into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2589.02,"endTime":2594.9,"body":"actually healing and moving"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2594.9,"endTime":2597.36,"body":"forward into a space? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2598.38,"endTime":2602.24,"body":"so that's, gosh,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2598.38,"endTime":2602.24,"body":"you asked really good questions"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2602.84,"endTime":2604.52,"body":"and hard questions. And yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2604.52,"endTime":2607.22,"body":"know it's hard,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2604.52,"endTime":2607.22,"body":"but I want to ask it because I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2608.0,"endTime":2609.74,"body":"think it's important what"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2609.74,"endTime":2612.62,"body":"you're touching"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2609.74,"endTime":2612.62,"body":"on is a major shift that I've"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2612.62,"endTime":2616.1,"body":"experienced in 25 years of doing"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2612.62,"endTime":2616.1,"body":"the work where, where a lot of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2616.1,"endTime":2618.76,"body":"what we were doing was talk"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2616.1,"endTime":2618.76,"body":"therapy for a long time, where"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2618.76,"endTime":2623.74,"body":"we were talking about the issues"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2618.76,"endTime":2623.74,"body":"and talking, you know, using DSM"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2623.74,"endTime":2627.22,"body":"diagnoses, and talking about"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2623.74,"endTime":2627.22,"body":"family stories. And we're we're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2627.22,"endTime":2630.7,"body":"recognizing more and more that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2627.22,"endTime":2630.7,"body":"we've got to engage practices"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2631.06,"endTime":2634.24,"body":"that invite us to wholeness,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2631.06,"endTime":2634.24,"body":"that invite us to connection,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2634.24,"endTime":2637.74,"body":"that invite us to regulation,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2634.24,"endTime":2637.74,"body":"and that requires more"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2637.74,"endTime":2642.78,"body":"embodiment that I was trained in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2637.74,"endTime":2642.78,"body":"such a long time ago. There's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2642.78,"endTime":2646.38,"body":"new research that is actually"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2642.78,"endTime":2646.38,"body":"channeling what I think is"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2646.44,"endTime":2648.96,"body":"ancient, an ancient"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2646.44,"endTime":2648.96,"body":"understanding of the body and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2648.96,"endTime":2655.8,"body":"the breath that involves us"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2648.96,"endTime":2655.8,"body":"finding our way back to the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2655.8,"endTime":2658.46,"body":"ground of our being, you might"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2655.8,"endTime":2658.46,"body":"say, to use a philosophical"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2658.46,"endTime":2663.32,"body":"phrase or ground a sense of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2658.46,"endTime":2663.32,"body":"groundedness. I remember when I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2663.32,"endTime":2668.18,"body":"first started engaging some new"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2663.32,"endTime":2668.18,"body":"practices after this ordeal in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2668.18,"endTime":2672.92,"body":"the Mexican hospital. I began"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2668.18,"endTime":2672.92,"body":"slowing down, I began breathing."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2672.92,"endTime":2676.76,"body":"And it felt really strange,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2672.92,"endTime":2676.76,"body":"because I lived so dissociated,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2676.76,"endTime":2681.22,"body":"dissociated from my own body,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2676.76,"endTime":2681.22,"body":"and it was like, oh, there's an"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2681.22,"endTime":2687.46,"body":"arm and a hand and a foot and a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2681.22,"endTime":2687.46,"body":"heart and, wow. So how did I get"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2687.46,"endTime":2689.8,"body":"here in the first place, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2687.46,"endTime":2689.8,"body":"know? And so this is where,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2689.86,"endTime":2694.6,"body":"where we can think about it. How"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2689.86,"endTime":2694.6,"body":"did I get here to the point"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2694.6,"endTime":2699.3,"body":"where I'm so disconnected, so"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2694.6,"endTime":2699.3,"body":"dissociated from my body. How do"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2699.3,"endTime":2704.1,"body":"I engage practices that allow me"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2699.3,"endTime":2704.1,"body":"to re engage with my body, with"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2704.1,"endTime":2709.62,"body":"my breath, and to heal some of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2704.1,"endTime":2709.62,"body":"those deep wounds? And, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2709.62,"endTime":2712.5,"body":"know, I think it's, I think we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2709.62,"endTime":2712.5,"body":"see this in seed form, in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2712.5,"endTime":2715.86,"body":"Genesis chapter three, when Adam"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2712.5,"endTime":2715.86,"body":"and Eve hide. It's a way of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2715.86,"endTime":2722.48,"body":"coping hidden behind fig leaves."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2715.86,"endTime":2722.48,"body":"We we, we survive in ways that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2722.48,"endTime":2726.2,"body":"actually keep us functionally"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2722.48,"endTime":2726.2,"body":"disconnected from ourselves,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2726.2,"endTime":2731.36,"body":"each other and from God. But"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2726.2,"endTime":2731.36,"body":"reconnection involves becoming"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2731.36,"endTime":2736.64,"body":"embodied again, while practices"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2731.36,"endTime":2736.64,"body":"of oftentimes, my clients know"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2736.64,"endTime":2740.38,"body":"this, but very early on, we're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2736.64,"endTime":2740.38,"body":"rubbing our chests. We're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2740.38,"endTime":2745.24,"body":"practicing bilateral tapping."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2740.38,"endTime":2745.24,"body":"We're breathing. We're engaging"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2745.24,"endTime":2748.6,"body":"some ancient prayer practices,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2745.24,"endTime":2748.6,"body":"sometimes contemplative prayer,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2748.6,"endTime":2752.8,"body":"certainly, certainly some early"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2748.6,"endTime":2752.8,"body":"church readings and biblical"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2752.8,"endTime":2755.5,"body":"readings where we're breathing"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2752.8,"endTime":2755.5,"body":"in and breathing out, where"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2756.46,"endTime":2759.48,"body":"we're engaging lots of different"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2756.46,"endTime":2759.48,"body":"practices to reconnect us to our"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2759.48,"endTime":2760.74,"body":"bodies. Think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2760.74,"endTime":2763.2,"body":"that's so good."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2760.74,"endTime":2763.2,"body":"I mean, I've had people tell me,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2763.68,"endTime":2767.22,"body":"I've been, you know, through"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2763.68,"endTime":2767.22,"body":"tapping and different things"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2767.22,"endTime":2770.7,"body":"with their body. I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2767.22,"endTime":2770.7,"body":"don't know how this works, but"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2770.7,"endTime":2775.62,"body":"it does work, and it's great."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2770.7,"endTime":2775.62,"body":"And so I don't need to know that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2775.8,"endTime":2779.66,"body":"how it works, but I know that it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2775.8,"endTime":2779.66,"body":"does. And I think embodiment is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2779.66,"endTime":2784.34,"body":"really important. And, yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2779.66,"endTime":2784.34,"body":"I think that's fantastic that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2784.4,"endTime":2789.86,"body":"you know as I mean, the last"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2784.4,"endTime":2789.86,"body":"time I was feeling disconnected"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2789.86,"endTime":2793.88,"body":"and anxious, one of the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2789.86,"endTime":2793.88,"body":"practices that I felt like I was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2793.88,"endTime":2798.4,"body":"invited to was to take my shoes"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2793.88,"endTime":2798.4,"body":"off and just go into the dirt,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2798.58,"endTime":2804.64,"body":"yeah, and just be where I am,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2798.58,"endTime":2804.64,"body":"yeah? That helps so much. Just"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2804.64,"endTime":2808.3,"body":"actually being there and feeling"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2804.64,"endTime":2808.3,"body":"my feet on the ground, in the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2808.3,"endTime":2812.92,"body":"dirt, yeah. Was like, Hey, I am"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2808.3,"endTime":2812.92,"body":"actually here. This is, this is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2812.92,"endTime":2813.94,"body":"perfect. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2814.24,"endTime":2815.92,"body":"I'll sometimes,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2814.24,"endTime":2815.92,"body":"I'll send my students. I'll"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2815.92,"endTime":2819.0,"body":"know, you know, eight weeks into"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2815.92,"endTime":2819.0,"body":"this. Semester that my students"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2819.0,"endTime":2822.0,"body":"are pretty disconnected, right?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2819.0,"endTime":2822.0,"body":"I mean, they're just surviving"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2822.0,"endTime":2825.12,"body":"the semester, and we've got this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2822.0,"endTime":2825.12,"body":"pine grove right next to the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2825.12,"endTime":2829.92,"body":"seminary grounds, and I know"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2825.12,"endTime":2829.92,"body":"that they walk high speed"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2829.92,"endTime":2833.1,"body":"through that Pine Grove to get"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2829.92,"endTime":2833.1,"body":"from our campus to the coffee"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2833.1,"endTime":2836.64,"body":"shop or wherever they go. And so"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2833.1,"endTime":2836.64,"body":"I'll say, so here's what we're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2836.64,"endTime":2840.56,"body":"gonna do for the next hour,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2836.64,"endTime":2840.56,"body":"you're going to slow down, maybe"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2840.56,"endTime":2843.74,"body":"take off your shoes, if they"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2840.56,"endTime":2843.74,"body":"feel comfortable doing it, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2843.74,"endTime":2848.66,"body":"walk in the grass in the Pine"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2843.74,"endTime":2848.66,"body":"Grove, slowly observing what you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2848.66,"endTime":2852.8,"body":"observe move, movement of the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2848.66,"endTime":2852.8,"body":"leaves, the flight of a bird,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2853.4,"endTime":2858.4,"body":"and some will come back in tears"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2853.4,"endTime":2858.4,"body":"like that palpable sense of so"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2858.4,"endTime":2861.04,"body":"we're talking about being out in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2858.4,"endTime":2861.04,"body":"nature now and slowing down and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2861.04,"endTime":2865.36,"body":"getting grounded. You know that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2861.04,"endTime":2865.36,"body":"palpable sense of of I have"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2865.36,"endTime":2868.84,"body":"been, I have been alienated for"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2865.36,"endTime":2868.84,"body":"myself, disconnected from my own"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2868.84,"endTime":2871.66,"body":"body, maybe even from my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2868.84,"endTime":2871.66,"body":"relationships, and that really"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2871.66,"endTime":2875.68,"body":"slowed me down and invited me"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2871.66,"endTime":2875.68,"body":"back home. And there are lots of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2875.68,"endTime":2879.72,"body":"different practices that that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2875.68,"endTime":2879.72,"body":"that can allow us to do this,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2879.9,"endTime":2884.4,"body":"both in contemporary psychology"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2879.9,"endTime":2884.4,"body":"and in the ancient Christian"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2884.4,"endTime":2884.94,"body":"tradition."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2885.42,"endTime":2890.34,"body":"So is it, you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2885.42,"endTime":2890.34,"body":"know your definition of of home,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2890.34,"endTime":2895.14,"body":"what is back home? Is it that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2890.34,"endTime":2895.14,"body":"sense of purpose and worthiness"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2895.14,"endTime":2899.3,"body":"and belonging? What? What is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2895.14,"endTime":2899.3,"body":"that? Where am I trying to head"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":2899.3,"endTime":2900.86,"body":"back towards? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2900.86,"endTime":2903.38,"body":"well, I think"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2900.86,"endTime":2903.38,"body":"home. When I talk about home, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2903.38,"endTime":2905.78,"body":"talk about it at multiple"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2903.38,"endTime":2905.78,"body":"levels. I talk about it as"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2905.78,"endTime":2910.28,"body":"spiritual level, a physiological"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2905.78,"endTime":2910.28,"body":"level, I mean, so to spiritual"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2910.28,"endTime":2915.38,"body":"levels, some have called it the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2910.28,"endTime":2915.38,"body":"true self, place where we feel"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2915.38,"endTime":2919.54,"body":"centered, the still waters of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2915.38,"endTime":2919.54,"body":"God, where we experience feeling"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2919.54,"endTime":2923.68,"body":"rooted and grounded in love,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2919.54,"endTime":2923.68,"body":"abiding in Christ. There are a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2923.68,"endTime":2927.1,"body":"variety of different metaphors"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2923.68,"endTime":2927.1,"body":"what we know in an embodied"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2927.1,"endTime":2929.44,"body":"sense. Well, in the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2927.1,"endTime":2929.44,"body":"contemplative tradition, that's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2929.44,"endTime":2932.8,"body":"where we use the language of the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2929.44,"endTime":2932.8,"body":"true self, that place where"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2932.8,"endTime":2938.64,"body":"God's image dwells, where God"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2932.8,"endTime":2938.64,"body":"dwells in contemporary sort of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2939.42,"endTime":2944.16,"body":"trauma, informed physiological"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2939.42,"endTime":2944.16,"body":"ways, neuroscientific ways, we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2944.16,"endTime":2949.74,"body":"talk about the ventral vagal"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2944.16,"endTime":2949.74,"body":"system, which is the kind of the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2950.22,"endTime":2954.3,"body":"the regulating center of our"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2950.22,"endTime":2954.3,"body":"autonomic nervous system. It's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2954.36,"endTime":2959.42,"body":"it's home base. It's where we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2954.36,"endTime":2959.42,"body":"feel relaxed and grounded and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2959.42,"endTime":2965.72,"body":"creative and playful and at ease"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2959.42,"endTime":2965.72,"body":"and connected and and so you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2965.72,"endTime":2968.24,"body":"know when, when you're at home"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2965.72,"endTime":2968.24,"body":"in your own house, like you've"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2968.24,"endTime":2970.94,"body":"worked a long day, and you walk"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2968.24,"endTime":2970.94,"body":"in your house and you're just"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2971.78,"endTime":2976.58,"body":"like, come on, that feels good."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2971.78,"endTime":2976.58,"body":"You know we feel that at a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2976.58,"endTime":2980.86,"body":"physiological level. And these"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2976.58,"endTime":2980.86,"body":"practices are geared toward"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2981.16,"endTime":2984.64,"body":"shifting people's autonomic"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2981.16,"endTime":2984.64,"body":"states from what I call"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2984.64,"endTime":2989.68,"body":"sympathetic storm or dorsal fog,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2984.64,"endTime":2989.68,"body":"to use some technical terms, of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2989.68,"endTime":2993.1,"body":"our autonomic nervous system"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2989.68,"endTime":2993.1,"body":"states, to this ventral sense of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2993.1,"endTime":2998.46,"body":"home, like, Oh, okay. I like"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2993.1,"endTime":2998.46,"body":"this. This is I feel connected"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2998.46,"endTime":3001.28,"body":"to myself. I feel connected to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":2998.46,"endTime":3001.28,"body":"God. I feel like I can show up"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3001.28,"endTime":3005.6,"body":"better in my relationships. I'm"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3001.28,"endTime":3005.6,"body":"not prone to overeat. I'm I'm"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3005.6,"endTime":3008.96,"body":"not going to drink myself to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3005.6,"endTime":3008.96,"body":"numbness tonight. This is nice,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3009.02,"endTime":3009.5,"body":"you know?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3010.88,"endTime":3013.58,"body":"I Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3010.88,"endTime":3013.58,"body":"so good. I felt that last night"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3013.58,"endTime":3017.36,"body":"after being gone for a couple of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3013.58,"endTime":3017.36,"body":"weeks. But I walked into my"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3017.36,"endTime":3021.22,"body":"house. This this is, this is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3017.36,"endTime":3021.22,"body":"home, yeah. And I felt, I felt"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3021.22,"endTime":3026.14,"body":"so good just to sit Yeah. One of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3021.22,"endTime":3026.14,"body":"the things that I've noticed as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3026.14,"endTime":3031.66,"body":"I've done this work of dealing"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3026.14,"endTime":3031.66,"body":"with my with my woundedness and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3031.66,"endTime":3038.58,"body":"my wounds in my life is that"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3031.66,"endTime":3038.58,"body":"when I react to something out of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3038.58,"endTime":3045.96,"body":"my woundedness now that I am"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3038.58,"endTime":3045.96,"body":"more aware of like, Oh, I did"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3045.96,"endTime":3051.06,"body":"that because of my wounding, so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3045.96,"endTime":3051.06,"body":"I'm quicker to ask for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3051.06,"endTime":3054.48,"body":"forgiveness and to course"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3051.06,"endTime":3054.48,"body":"correct and to move forward."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3054.9,"endTime":3059.84,"body":"Yeah, what is ongoing"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3054.9,"endTime":3059.84,"body":"flourishing for us after we have"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3059.84,"endTime":3064.34,"body":"started to deal with our wounds."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3059.84,"endTime":3064.34,"body":"Yeah, we know, you know what is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3064.4,"endTime":3068.12,"body":"been going on in our lives?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3064.4,"endTime":3068.12,"body":"Yeah, how we can continue,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3068.24,"endTime":3071.12,"body":"continually flourish long term?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3072.02,"endTime":3074.3,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3072.02,"endTime":3074.3,"body":"you're getting at it. We begin"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3074.3,"endTime":3078.7,"body":"to understand the landscape of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3074.3,"endTime":3078.7,"body":"our own soul, and in so doing,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3078.7,"endTime":3081.28,"body":"we understand that there are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3078.7,"endTime":3081.28,"body":"these detours that we take,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3081.28,"endTime":3084.46,"body":"there are these ways that we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3081.28,"endTime":3084.46,"body":"self protect or we disconnect"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3084.88,"endTime":3088.3,"body":"that are often very familiar."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3084.88,"endTime":3088.3,"body":"You know, they're, they're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3088.3,"endTime":3091.6,"body":"learned over the course of a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3088.3,"endTime":3091.6,"body":"lifetime in our early schools of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3091.6,"endTime":3094.9,"body":"formation with our moms and our"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3091.6,"endTime":3094.9,"body":"dads. And so we notice, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3094.9,"endTime":3098.88,"body":"know, we notice that slight"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3094.9,"endTime":3098.88,"body":"dysregulation as, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3098.88,"endTime":3102.12,"body":"was, we're empty nesters now, my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3098.88,"endTime":3102.12,"body":"wife and I were on a road trip a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3102.12,"endTime":3107.04,"body":"few weeks ago, and I noticed"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3102.12,"endTime":3107.04,"body":"some avoidance, you know, and,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3107.1,"endTime":3110.82,"body":"and it was like, kind of like, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3107.1,"endTime":3110.82,"body":"need to pay attention to this."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3110.82,"endTime":3113.64,"body":"What's going on right now? I got"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3110.82,"endTime":3113.64,"body":"in the car, we're driving, we're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3113.64,"endTime":3120.14,"body":"we're headed out, and, um. Um, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3113.64,"endTime":3120.14,"body":"had to do the work, because if I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3120.14,"endTime":3122.54,"body":"wouldn't be paying attention, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3120.14,"endTime":3122.54,"body":"probably just act out of that."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3122.54,"endTime":3125.12,"body":"But I might have just stayed in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3122.54,"endTime":3125.12,"body":"that space for two or three"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3125.12,"endTime":3128.9,"body":"days. But I wanted to notice"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3125.12,"endTime":3128.9,"body":"what's, you know, what's coming"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3128.9,"endTime":3134.48,"body":"up for me. And I did. I paid"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3128.9,"endTime":3134.48,"body":"attention. I allowed myself. She"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3134.48,"endTime":3136.76,"body":"didn't know this was happening."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3134.48,"endTime":3136.76,"body":"We were kind of driving along."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3136.76,"endTime":3141.82,"body":"She was taking a nap. I was, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3136.76,"endTime":3141.82,"body":"know, driving a few hours, and I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3141.82,"endTime":3146.32,"body":"had this sense of, yeah, there's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3141.82,"endTime":3146.32,"body":"some old stuff that has bubbled"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3146.32,"endTime":3149.92,"body":"up, and it has to do with some"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3146.32,"endTime":3149.92,"body":"anxiety around some things that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3149.92,"endTime":3154.72,"body":"are going on in our lives. And I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3149.92,"endTime":3154.72,"body":"want to be present, so I'm going"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3154.72,"endTime":3158.94,"body":"to breathe and I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3154.72,"endTime":3158.94,"body":"ground, and I want to honor, you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3158.94,"endTime":3162.0,"body":"know, some parts of me that are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3158.94,"endTime":3162.0,"body":"feeling kind of fearful right"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3162.0,"endTime":3166.14,"body":"now and overwhelmed. My daughter"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3162.0,"endTime":3166.14,"body":"and her fiance were headed off"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3166.14,"endTime":3170.28,"body":"to Japan. We've got a wedding."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3166.14,"endTime":3170.28,"body":"We're planning some things going"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3170.28,"endTime":3174.36,"body":"on in our lives that feel"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3170.28,"endTime":3174.36,"body":"disruptive, and honor those"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3174.36,"endTime":3178.4,"body":"things and come back to a place"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3174.36,"endTime":3178.4,"body":"of of center so breathing, my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3178.4,"endTime":3181.28,"body":"wife's sitting over there."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3178.4,"endTime":3181.28,"body":"They're napping, and I'm rubbing"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3181.28,"endTime":3185.72,"body":"my chest, and I'm four seconds"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3181.28,"endTime":3185.72,"body":"in, holding for seven seconds"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3185.78,"endTime":3189.68,"body":"out, for eight seconds,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3185.78,"endTime":3189.68,"body":"breathing, um, praying, this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3189.68,"endTime":3193.52,"body":"ancient prayer, call me, oh"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3189.68,"endTime":3193.52,"body":"Lord, breathing in as you still"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3193.52,"endTime":3201.16,"body":"the storm, breathing out, still"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3193.52,"endTime":3201.16,"body":"me, oh, Lord, keep me from harm."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3201.16,"endTime":3204.82,"body":"I should have given you more"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3201.16,"endTime":3204.82,"body":"warning before doing that. I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3204.82,"endTime":3208.48,"body":"didn't know I was going to offer"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3204.82,"endTime":3208.48,"body":"you that prayer, but this old,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3208.48,"endTime":3212.08,"body":"ancient Celtic prayer, and by"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3208.48,"endTime":3212.08,"body":"the time she woke up, I was more"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3212.08,"endTime":3215.98,"body":"grounded, you know, I was just"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3212.08,"endTime":3215.98,"body":"more there and and we were able"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3215.98,"endTime":3220.68,"body":"to be together, be connected."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3215.98,"endTime":3220.68,"body":"But I'm just growing to notice"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3220.68,"endTime":3223.08,"body":"those things more. And then"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3220.68,"endTime":3223.08,"body":"there are times where, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3223.08,"endTime":3227.46,"body":"my daughters and my wife call me"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3223.08,"endTime":3227.46,"body":"out because I'm not noticing and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3227.46,"endTime":3230.46,"body":"it's the same old not that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3227.46,"endTime":3230.46,"body":"they're very familiar with, who"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3230.46,"endTime":3232.8,"body":"gets really anxious or really"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3230.46,"endTime":3232.8,"body":"disconnected."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3233.88,"endTime":3236.46,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3233.88,"endTime":3236.46,"body":"can see that that's that's so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3236.46,"endTime":3241.1,"body":"good. What a great example. You"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3236.46,"endTime":3241.1,"body":"know, I was able to read"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3241.28,"endTime":3245.96,"body":"healing, what's within while we"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3241.28,"endTime":3245.96,"body":"were camping and fly fishing, so"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3245.96,"endTime":3249.5,"body":"around a fire, it was, it was a"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3245.96,"endTime":3249.5,"body":"perfect spot to actually sit"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3249.5,"endTime":3254.12,"body":"there and read your book. And"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3249.5,"endTime":3254.12,"body":"while I was reading it, I was"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3254.12,"endTime":3257.84,"body":"like, I want to give this. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3254.12,"endTime":3257.84,"body":"just want to, just like, hand"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3257.84,"endTime":3260.32,"body":"out copies. I was like, you need"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3257.84,"endTime":3260.32,"body":"this. You need this. This is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3260.32,"endTime":3265.3,"body":"amazing. What is your hope for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3260.32,"endTime":3265.3,"body":"your readers? People would pick"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3265.3,"endTime":3268.6,"body":"up your book? What would you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3265.3,"endTime":3268.6,"body":"want to them to get out of it"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3268.84,"endTime":3271.6,"body":"and implement in their lives?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3268.84,"endTime":3271.6,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3272.62,"endTime":3276.88,"body":"well, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3272.62,"endTime":3276.88,"body":"think I want them to experience"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3276.88,"endTime":3281.7,"body":"an invitation to to this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3276.88,"endTime":3281.7,"body":"transformation, this path of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3281.7,"endTime":3286.8,"body":"transformation that that that I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3281.7,"endTime":3286.8,"body":"lay out in the book I want, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3286.8,"endTime":3294.18,"body":"want them to experience it as"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3286.8,"endTime":3294.18,"body":"inviting, accessible, safe, not"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3294.18,"endTime":3298.52,"body":"too complicated. Not complicated"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3294.18,"endTime":3298.52,"body":"by too much verbiage, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3298.52,"endTime":3302.6,"body":"from from from theology or"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3298.52,"endTime":3302.6,"body":"psychology, but really just"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3302.6,"endTime":3306.2,"body":"Invitational and accessible. And"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3302.6,"endTime":3306.2,"body":"as you know, there are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3306.2,"endTime":3309.32,"body":"practices, and there's a bit of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3306.2,"endTime":3309.32,"body":"a stair step approach, where"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3309.56,"endTime":3312.98,"body":"we're com We're layering some"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3309.56,"endTime":3312.98,"body":"things in the book. We're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3313.04,"endTime":3316.82,"body":"becoming aware in the early"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3313.04,"endTime":3316.82,"body":"chapters, by the middle"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3316.82,"endTime":3319.42,"body":"chapters, we're paying attention"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3316.82,"endTime":3319.42,"body":"a bit more to some of the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3319.42,"endTime":3323.5,"body":"complexity of our own stories."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3319.42,"endTime":3323.5,"body":"By the last chapters, we're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3323.5,"endTime":3329.02,"body":"looking at ways that we cope. I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3323.5,"endTime":3329.02,"body":"think if, if people can find"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3329.02,"endTime":3331.66,"body":"their way into this inner"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3329.02,"endTime":3331.66,"body":"conversation, I have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3331.66,"endTime":3335.02,"body":"hope for the healing that can"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3331.66,"endTime":3335.02,"body":"happen. The problem is we stay"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3335.02,"endTime":3338.94,"body":"pretty externalized. And as you"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3335.02,"endTime":3338.94,"body":"know, I've done some writing on"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3338.94,"endTime":3342.18,"body":"narcissism and spiritual abuse,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3338.94,"endTime":3342.18,"body":"and I I know from my own story"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3342.18,"endTime":3345.12,"body":"and other people's stories,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3342.18,"endTime":3345.12,"body":"we're looking for someone to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3345.12,"endTime":3348.48,"body":"blame. We're looking for how we"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3345.12,"endTime":3348.48,"body":"might get justice. We're looking"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3348.48,"endTime":3351.18,"body":"for some sense of control. I get"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3348.48,"endTime":3351.18,"body":"it because I've lived in all"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3351.18,"endTime":3355.62,"body":"those places. But I I had to do"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3351.18,"endTime":3355.62,"body":"the work I was compelled to do"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3355.62,"endTime":3358.7,"body":"the work of turning my attention"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3355.62,"endTime":3358.7,"body":"to the wounds that I carried"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3358.7,"endTime":3362.9,"body":"within me that were unique to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3358.7,"endTime":3362.9,"body":"me, and that's the invitation in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3362.9,"endTime":3364.28,"body":"this book that's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3364.28,"endTime":3367.28,"body":"really good. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3364.28,"endTime":3367.28,"body":"have a couple quick questions to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3367.28,"endTime":3370.52,"body":"the end. One, if you go back to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3367.28,"endTime":3370.52,"body":"your 21 year old self, what"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3370.52,"endTime":3371.36,"body":"advice would you give?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3374.84,"endTime":3377.92,"body":"Man, I would"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3374.84,"endTime":3377.92,"body":"almost just sit in silence with"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3377.92,"endTime":3383.68,"body":"tears in my eyes and looking"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3377.92,"endTime":3383.68,"body":"into the eyes of a young guy"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3383.68,"endTime":3388.18,"body":"with so much anxiety who's so"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3383.68,"endTime":3388.18,"body":"disconnected and so scared at"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3388.18,"endTime":3394.0,"body":"some level and working really"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3388.18,"endTime":3394.0,"body":"hard to belong, I think I just"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3394.0,"endTime":3399.42,"body":"give him a hug and say, you're"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3394.0,"endTime":3399.42,"body":"loved, and you don't have to try"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3399.42,"endTime":3403.5,"body":"so hard, and God is more near"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3399.42,"endTime":3403.5,"body":"than you can imagine, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3403.5,"endTime":3409.26,"body":"but, yeah, that's a good"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3403.5,"endTime":3409.26,"body":"question. Man, thanks."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3412.5,"endTime":3415.14,"body":"But I think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3412.5,"endTime":3415.14,"body":"that's so good because I think"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3415.38,"endTime":3420.32,"body":"even what you're doing in. In"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3415.38,"endTime":3420.32,"body":"your your road trip of saying,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3420.44,"endTime":3425.84,"body":"Okay, I feel, uh, disconnected."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3420.44,"endTime":3425.84,"body":"I not attach it like I'm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3425.84,"endTime":3430.04,"body":"avoiding something here."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3425.84,"endTime":3430.04,"body":"Sometimes it takes a lot to get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3430.04,"endTime":3435.2,"body":"over that fear of, okay, I I'm"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3430.04,"endTime":3435.2,"body":"kind of scared to actually"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3435.26,"endTime":3438.94,"body":"engage in this connection right"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3435.26,"endTime":3438.94,"body":"now. But you actually did it."},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3439.06,"endTime":3440.98,"body":"It's the same thing you were"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3439.06,"endTime":3440.98,"body":"gonna say, you know, you talked"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3440.98,"endTime":3445.3,"body":"about your 21 year old self as"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3440.98,"endTime":3445.3,"body":"someone who was fearful of"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3445.42,"endTime":3450.04,"body":"anxious, yeah, and I think the"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3445.42,"endTime":3450.04,"body":"work is continues like you're"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3450.04,"endTime":3453.46,"body":"giving, you're not giving into"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3450.04,"endTime":3453.46,"body":"fear. You're actually stepping"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3453.46,"endTime":3457.72,"body":"into a place of hope and"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3453.46,"endTime":3457.72,"body":"healing, even when it is scary,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3458.2,"endTime":3461.7,"body":"because all of these things, is"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3458.2,"endTime":3461.7,"body":"actually putting yourself out"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3461.7,"endTime":3465.72,"body":"there of saying, hey, I need"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3461.7,"endTime":3465.72,"body":"some connection, or you can"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3465.72,"endTime":3472.32,"body":"actually be there with me. So,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3465.72,"endTime":3472.32,"body":"well done. Next one, anything"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3472.32,"endTime":3475.02,"body":"you've been reading or watching"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3472.32,"endTime":3475.02,"body":"lately, you could recommend,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3477.0,"endTime":3481.28,"body":"oh, yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3477.0,"endTime":3481.28,"body":"I've been watching the Euros and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3481.28,"endTime":3486.2,"body":"the Copa matches, but those are"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3481.28,"endTime":3486.2,"body":"over now. I will tell you who"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3486.2,"endTime":3494.66,"body":"won readers. Yeah, I'm reading a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3486.2,"endTime":3494.66,"body":"new book called The secret"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3494.66,"endTime":3498.16,"body":"language of the body that just"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3494.66,"endTime":3498.16,"body":"came out that I think takes a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3498.16,"endTime":3503.68,"body":"next step in, in the inner work,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3498.16,"endTime":3503.68,"body":"the body work that that I think"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3503.68,"endTime":3507.64,"body":"I'm still learning on the go,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3503.68,"endTime":3507.64,"body":"and so many of us are learning,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3508.72,"endTime":3511.66,"body":"of course, Bessel van der Koch"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3508.72,"endTime":3511.66,"body":"invited all this too many years"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3511.66,"endTime":3514.9,"body":"ago, on the Body Keeps the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3511.66,"endTime":3514.9,"body":"Score. There's going to be more"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3514.9,"endTime":3518.76,"body":"and more work like that coming"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3514.9,"endTime":3518.76,"body":"out, I think, in the coming, the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3518.76,"endTime":3522.96,"body":"coming years, as we understand"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3518.76,"endTime":3522.96,"body":"the, you know, the the mind,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3522.96,"endTime":3527.76,"body":"heart, body connections and and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3522.96,"endTime":3527.76,"body":"do that kind of work. So that's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3527.76,"endTime":3531.48,"body":"one. That's one I'm I'm reading"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3527.76,"endTime":3531.48,"body":"right now. I'm rereading a book"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3531.48,"endTime":3534.54,"body":"that is really wonderful, called"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3531.48,"endTime":3534.54,"body":"trauma stewardship, by a woman"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3534.54,"endTime":3538.46,"body":"named, I just blanked out her"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3534.54,"endTime":3538.46,"body":"first name, but her last name is"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3538.46,"endTime":3542.6,"body":"Lipski. It's a it's an old one."},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3538.46,"endTime":3542.6,"body":"It was a best seller, and it's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3542.6,"endTime":3545.54,"body":"one that I assigned for pastoral"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3542.6,"endTime":3545.54,"body":"care class on its secondary"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3545.84,"endTime":3550.28,"body":"trauma, adjacent trauma, so that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3545.84,"endTime":3550.28,"body":"pastors and missionaries and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3550.28,"endTime":3554.24,"body":"counselors know what the tax,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3550.28,"endTime":3554.24,"body":"the toll of listening to these"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3554.24,"endTime":3559.06,"body":"stories and being in these"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3554.24,"endTime":3559.06,"body":"challenging situations. And so,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3559.06,"endTime":3563.38,"body":"yeah, that's one I've gone back"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3559.06,"endTime":3563.38,"body":"to. And yeah, I've been doing a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3563.38,"endTime":3569.14,"body":"little dabbling in a book that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3563.38,"endTime":3569.14,"body":"that came out of a retreat that"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3569.14,"endTime":3572.02,"body":"Henry now and LED on the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3569.14,"endTime":3572.02,"body":"prodigal son. It's a book called"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3572.02,"endTime":3575.32,"body":"home tonight, further thoughts"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3572.02,"endTime":3575.32,"body":"on on the return of the prodigal"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3575.32,"endTime":3579.66,"body":"son. And I actually got to"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3575.32,"endTime":3579.66,"body":"listen to that retreat on CD, if"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3579.66,"endTime":3583.02,"body":"you remember what those were,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3579.66,"endTime":3583.02,"body":"but they don't want that's not"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3583.02,"endTime":3586.56,"body":"available anymore, but it's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3583.02,"endTime":3586.56,"body":"been. It's this really book, and"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3586.56,"endTime":3590.4,"body":"I need a lot of Henry now in my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3586.56,"endTime":3590.4,"body":"life. So, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3590.88,"endTime":3592.86,"body":"well, the first"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3590.88,"endTime":3592.86,"body":"CD I ever bought was co West,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3592.86,"endTime":3595.08,"body":"young man, by Michael Louis"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3592.86,"endTime":3595.08,"body":"Smith. You know, place in this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3595.08,"endTime":3600.14,"body":"world which you come full"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3595.08,"endTime":3600.14,"body":"circle. Come full circle. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3600.14,"endTime":3604.58,"body":"remember that. How could people"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3600.14,"endTime":3604.58,"body":"connect with you? Where were you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3604.58,"endTime":3607.34,"body":"like one people to go out get"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3604.58,"endTime":3607.34,"body":"your book healing. What's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3607.34,"endTime":3607.64,"body":"within?"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3608.36,"endTime":3611.54,"body":"Yeah. So is this"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3608.36,"endTime":3611.54,"body":"gonna come out before it's"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3611.54,"endTime":3612.62,"body":"released in October?"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3612.8,"endTime":3615.44,"body":"Nope, it'll come"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3612.8,"endTime":3615.44,"body":"out the week it releases. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3615.56,"endTime":3619.54,"body":"so either way, my"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3615.56,"endTime":3619.54,"body":"website is chapter growth.net"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3620.38,"endTime":3624.04,"body":"and you know, the book will be"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3620.38,"endTime":3624.04,"body":"available wherever you can buy"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3624.04,"endTime":3627.34,"body":"books. I'm at Western"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3624.04,"endTime":3627.34,"body":"Theological Seminary in Holland,"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3627.34,"endTime":3632.62,"body":"Michigan, not Western in"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3627.34,"endTime":3632.62,"body":"Portland, and I teach here. And"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3632.62,"endTime":3636.58,"body":"so people can find me here if"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3632.62,"endTime":3636.58,"body":"they'd like to. And, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3636.58,"endTime":3641.16,"body":"think that's it. On social media"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3636.58,"endTime":3641.16,"body":"you know, where we're all just"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3641.16,"endTime":3644.34,"body":"trying to survive. That's right,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3644.82,"endTime":3646.92,"body":"we are trying to"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3644.82,"endTime":3646.92,"body":"survive. That's good. Well,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3646.92,"endTime":3650.1,"body":"Chuck, thank you for this"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3646.92,"endTime":3650.1,"body":"conversation. Fantastic. Your"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3650.1,"endTime":3653.76,"body":"book is is incredible. It's"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3650.1,"endTime":3653.76,"body":"great. I really recommend"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3653.76,"endTime":3657.3,"body":"everybody go out and get healing"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3653.76,"endTime":3657.3,"body":"what's within. So thank you for"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3657.3,"endTime":3661.7,"body":"taking us through your story,"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3657.3,"endTime":3661.7,"body":"and helping us through reckoning"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3661.7,"endTime":3665.72,"body":"with our own wounds and helping"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3661.7,"endTime":3665.72,"body":"us heal from what we have been"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3665.72,"endTime":3668.42,"body":"wounded with. So Thank you"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3665.72,"endTime":3668.42,"body":"Chuck. It was fantastic. No"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3668.42,"endTime":3670.64,"body":"way I I've done a"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3668.42,"endTime":3670.64,"body":"bunch of these with the"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3670.64,"endTime":3674.0,"body":"narcissism stuff. You're really"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3670.64,"endTime":3674.0,"body":"good at what you do, and you ask"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3674.66,"endTime":3678.4,"body":"crazy good questions. So thank"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3674.66,"endTime":3678.4,"body":"you so much for like actually"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3678.4,"endTime":3682.66,"body":"reading the book. Number one"},{"speaker":"Chuck DeGroat","startTime":3678.4,"endTime":3682.66,"body":"questions, yeah, thank"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3682.66,"endTime":3684.58,"body":"you so much. I"},{"speaker":"Joshua Johnson","startTime":3682.66,"endTime":3684.58,"body":"really appreciate it. You."}]}