Our lives need to reflect the ways of the kingdom, looking at what Jesus did, what he preached, how he lived his life, and having our lives become a reflection of that.
Unknown:You Hello
Joshua Johnson:and welcome to the shifting culture podcast in which we have conversations about the culture we create and the impact we can make. We long to see the body of Christ look like Jesus. I'm your host. Joshua Johnson, you know so many struggle with the Bible, not because it's irrelevant, but because they've never been given the full story. My guest today, Zach Wendall, went from confusion and disillusionment to falling in love with scripture, and now he's helping others do the same. In this conversation, we trace Zach's journey of rediscovery, unpack the sweeping narrative of the Bible and explore how reclaiming the story of God roots us in a better way to live. We talk about why understanding context matters, how the Bible invites us into a kingdom worldview, and what it means to live under the reign of King Jesus in the everyday Zach doesn't just teach the Bible. He's passionate about helping people actually see it, engage with it and let it shape their lives. So join us as we lay out a roadmap to the beauty and power of the story of the Bible. Here is my conversation with Zach windahl. Zach, welcome to shifting culture. So excited to have you on. Thanks for joining me.
Unknown:Thank you so much for having me. This is awesome. I'm really excited for this conversation. I'm
Joshua Johnson:excited to talk about the Bible today. Yeah, it's a good topic. You like the Bible. You talk about the Bible a lot, but you I don't think you've always liked the Bible, or even you were struggling with your faith for a while. How did you discover a love for the Bible? What happened to you?
Unknown:There was a time in my life where I grew up seeing God move in miraculous ways, and I knew that he was good, and I believed in him, and I believed in Jesus, and I was always around Bible stuff, because I went I went to church, and I memorized verses, and I knew stories, but I didn't understand how it all tied together, really, or how it was supposed to impact my life. So there was a timeframe when I was in probably 2014 or so, when I really started questioning everything. I was surrounded by a lot of people that were Christian, that weren't really living out a lifestyle that I expected Jesus to live. And then I was around a lot of other people that weren't believers at all. They were spiritual, whatever that means. They were Buddhist, like, whatever the case. And they were so kind and so, like, just sweet to the people around them. And I was really conflicted. I hit that spot saying, God, I know you're real. But I don't even know if I want to be associated with these other people right now. And so I said, I'm going to give two years of studying the Bible as intensely as I possibly can. And I was like, God, I need you to show up. And I ended up doing Do you remember that thing called P 90x in like, the early 2000s like a workout thing. Well, there was a church that was doing b 90x so it was through the Bible in 90 days. And I was like, that sounds like a good thing for me to do. So I read the Bible in 90 days, and by the time I was done with it, I was like, that was way different than I expected. It was. I knew stories, but I didn't know the full story. And I was like, I need to study this even deeper. And so I ended up choosing this program out in Australia. I was in Minneapolis at the time, and and anything Australia or beach sounded like a really good idea to me, especially with some of our winters up there, and so I chose Australia and went out there. We studied for like, 12 hours a day, six days a week in this really intensive program. That's it, yeah, literally, like that was, yeah, no big deal. And like, if it was Genesis Week, for instance, you would read Genesis five times through during the week, and then you would create, like, your own commentary on it. And I would say, by day two of being there, I was sold out. I was all in. I was like, any of my doubts or anything in the past were because of people, not because of God. I'm going all in. And I think that's such a common thing, I don't know if you'd agree, but a lot of people that may like deconstruct their faith or fall away from the church, it's always, for the most part, what I've seen is, is blaming other people for things, or it's like my pastor did this, so it made me fall away from the church. Or these people in my small, small group were this way, so I didn't want to be a part of it. But it's rarely, like, ever fully about God and and I think that's kind of a strange thing, where it's like, oh, I'm I'm leaving my faith in God because of something somebody else said. Like, if somebody said something negative about my wife. I'm not gonna leave my wife because of what they said or what they did. I was going through that whole period of what do I actually believe? And when I spent time studying scripture and diving into the text, that's when everything changed for me,
Joshua Johnson:I think because of that, and I think people are falling away, deconstructing doing things. Because the people, I think, pastors, church leaders, people, are like, Oh, maybe we haven't discipled people well, maybe we haven't done things well so that people will will stay when things get hard and difficult. And so one of the ways that I think we haven't done well in the past is we've given people stories, but not the story of the Bible, not the whole narrative, 100% so when you started to see the narrative of Scripture, how did that shift you in your thinking? What does it do for us when we see the full story?
Unknown:I think when you break down and understand that it is a historical document, that it's written to a specific people group, and that Jesus is not here to start a new religion. He's the fulfillment of an old religion. And you break it down that way, it's like, Oh, I was talking to somebody the other day, and they were like, Yeah, well, Jesus didn't want anything to do with religion. It's like, that just means you didn't understand the storyline of Scripture, because he wanted everything to do with it, and he was the fulfillment of the whole Old Testament, and he had the whole Old Testament memorized, and as any good rabbi, Jewish teacher would would at that time. And so I think for me, it was like, Okay, if this is a storyline from beginning to end, and I can see where I am in the story as well, and make it personal and say, This is what the kingdom of God is, and this is what I'm signing up for, and God wants to partner with me to bring this out into the world, then that's when it shifted for me and and I talked to so many people that I don't think a lot of younger people actually understand their faith, and I think it comes from only being told one verse on a Sunday as a good transitional moment between a few stories, as you mentioned, and you leave encouraged for the week in order to come back the next Week. But you don't actually understand the Bible a lot of the time, and I think that's a huge issue. And I'm really hoping and believing that there is a change going on in culture right now, and I think there is where you have all of these new people that are coming to church for the first time. In the past, it was always like it was common to have a lot of prodigals returning to the church, but now what I'm seeing is people are coming for the first time. They're being handed a Bible, and they're being told, read this because you need to. And people are like, I don't even know where to begin. And then they'll start a reading plan. And within three weeks, it's like, oh, I have I'm giving up because I don't know what how Leviticus even like. What am I reading right now? You know? And I think people just need their hand held through the process. And I think that's really what I feel called to do and dedicate all of my work to. Is, how can I make people be less overwhelmed by the Bible in order to become confident in their faith.
Joshua Johnson:I know that when I went through my old testament narrative and New Testament narrative courses, and then I had to write the story of the Bible through a specific lens, so I chose honor shame lens and walked through the whole Bible through an honor and shame lens. And what that looks like, it shifted a lot for me, I was so excited about the story about the Bible, and I could situate myself, you know, in the story now. So if you you have people looking and go, Hey, I was raised in church. I have all these Sunday School stories. I know these things, but I'm not quite sure how everything fits together. Can you walk us through the narrative of the Bible briefly and simply, so that we could say, what is it?
Unknown:Yes, 100% so it begins in with God creating everything. And he created humans and placed them in a garden, which was perfect relationship with Him. Essentially, it was a place where you could think of like heaven and earth overlapping and but he gave humans a choice to either continue expanding the garden and expanding the kingdom of God on earth, or you could choose to partner with the ways of the world. And humans chose to partner with the ways of the world instead, and instead of all of humanity God. Event. Actually chose a specific person, Abraham, to have a covenant with, and to say, I'm going to, instead of choosing to partner with everyone, I'm going to choose one family, and through that family, everybody else is going to be blessed. And through these covenants and a few more covenants throughout the Old Testament portion of Scripture, there's ups and downs in the relationship with God. There's things are great and and people are thriving, and then there's times where they're trying to do their own thing because of the surrounding cultures and the ways of the world really speaking into them. And it was a spot where it wasn't going any further, and they were stuck in a sin cycle with sin and then sacrifices. And the only way to completely remove the sacrificial system was through a perfect human. And so Jesus came down as that perfect human to be sacrificed so that his blood on the cross can cover it for everyone. And so now, as we are covered by the blood of Jesus, as we have the Holy Spirit, now it's it's kind of like before within the Garden of Eden, where heaven and Earth were overlapping everywhere that we bring the kingdom. Today, there's little pockets of overlap of heaven and earth overlapping, and we're on this trajectory right now of the kingdom expanding, where one day everything will be restored, and sin will be completely removed, and all the effects of sin will be removed like right now. Tornadoes are because of the sin cycle. Cancer is because of the sin cycle. Chaos is and there will be a time in the future when everything is restored, where all of that will be gone. And so for us today, as believers, we're pointing towards that, and we're saying, I want to bring the kingdom of God to my surrounding area. So that means bringing people hope, bringing people peace, helping them find healing and forgiveness and and showing them that true forgiveness of sins is only through Jesus, and if we choose to partner with him, then our lives are going to produce a ton of fruit that that others wouldn't be able to see. And so we're on that process of moving towards restoration right now.
Joshua Johnson:Beautiful articulation, encapsulation of the Bible and where we are right now, right? We're moving towards restoration. We actually get to join Jesus in the reconciliation and redemption of all things, which is crazy that we get to participate in it. It is amazing. I love it. It's a privilege that we get to be able to partner with him, but and we have Holy Spirit living with us and dwelling us, which is also a crazy thing, that the Spirit of the Living God is within me and you. I don't think people in the rash of Christ I know like
Unknown:that's a huge deal, and like the creator of the universe wants to partner with you and I, what an honor. Like, we should only approach him from a place of awe and reference, because of that, you know, like, that's amazing. So cool. You
Joshua Johnson:know, in the Old Testament, there was, there was the Spirit of God. So if we're just talking about the Spirit of God, so the Spirit of God was in the in the temple, the tabernacle, as they're, they're walking, you know, through the desert, through and in the Old Testament, and then, after Jesus died, was resurrected, you know, the veil was torn and the temple so that there and then the Holy Spirit was given to us, so that we are now the temple of God and carry The presence of God. How does that, that whole aspect of the Spirit and where he is, impact the way that we live in our life, and what it is that we get to do.
Unknown:I don't think people even realize that they are the temple through that part of the story. And it's it's so fascinating, because in the Old Testament, you have the tabernacle and the temple and and when they dedicated the temple, fire came down onto the altar. And during the day, when they would move the tabernacle from place to place, God's presence was found in in a cloud and fire by night, and then in Acts when you have the Holy Spirit coming in, and they're in the room, wind comes in, which we've seen with the temple and the tabernacle, and tongues of fire rest upon them, which we saw with the temple and the tabernacle. And I don't think people make that, that connection there, which is really cool, that yes, you are now the temple of the living God, and everywhere that you go, you're bringing his kingdom, and like that revelation right there is insane. We should be approaching him every single day with worship, just as the priests would if we believe that we are now priests. Is in the kingdom of God, and He is our everything. Worship should be a lifestyle, and I think that comes from our work. If you're a plumber, you can make worship your lifestyle is just as much as any pastor can your job, where whatever you're doing, you can worship God through that and honor him in it. And I think having that shift in mindset is so crucial in who we become and how we live our lives that we that we fall in love with the act of worship. Any wisdom in Scripture, so all wisdom literature, the root of it is fear God and obey His commands and whatever else you learn in it. That's the root. And I think that's missed a lot of the times in at least in the younger church in the West, it seems where you might go to church to be encouraged, but the purpose of church is to worship God and to equip the saints and then send them out. And we miss, oftentimes, that worship and that awe and that reverence and and fearing him in in a healthy way, and learning to hear His voice and obey what He actually says, because by doing so that's where true life transformation comes, and that's where you're going to see him moving in your life. And that's what he wants, and that's what he that's what he desires, and that's what he deserves. Is our lives as worship, and if we miss that, we're missing out on so much in life. I think, would you agree with that?
Joshua Johnson:Yeah, of course. And I think that there's two things, I think, one in the church today, I think we're struggling with, how do we love God and love our neighbor? Well, there's some parts of the church will say, I'm going to be really heavy and just stay on the love area, and I forget about the fear of God, and some are just like fear and holiness and like there's no love totally. So how do those two interplay in Scripture? And what is the love of God and then the fear of God? How does that play out for us?
Unknown:Yeah, I think it's loving people and showing them that God loves them so much that he's giving them a way to live that does result in change. And I think in the younger church, oftentimes it's come in however you are, you're welcome, you don't need to change. And that's just not what we see in Scripture. It's once people come in, then they change because they've dedicated their life to living under King Jesus and under his rule and reign. And that means there are things that need to change in your life, and the Bible is very clear on a lot of things that we need to do in life. And yes, loving our neighbor is like loving God loving our neighbor. That's the two most important things. But loving doesn't mean that we're just accepting you for however, however you are. Loving means saying, Hey, you're welcome here. But once you actually come in, you need to turn away from the ways of the world, because if you read like John 316 and then continue reading. In 17 and 18, God still hates the wickedness of the world, and there needs to be a change there. And if you don't want to agree with the ways of the world, you want to agree with the kingdom of God, and He gives us an out there. I think from the beginning, there's always been choices that we've had. There's tree of knowledge, of good and evil, there's Tree of Life, there's Babylon, there's Jerusalem, there's kingdom of God, kingdom of the world. There's light, there's darkness. We've always had the choice between the two, and from my perspective, now it's like, why would I ever Cho choose the ways of the world? But I think Satan's very conniving and good at convincing people that His ways are better because of judgment or whatever. And I think if people have that understanding in that and that shift, it'll it'll really help them fall in love with God more and realize that, okay, His Holiness is is the root. In order to see his love for people, it needs to be seen through the lens of holiness. First, I heard a pastor or a teacher say that recently, and I thought that was so good, instead of just looking at at people through the eyes of love, looking at people at looking at God through holiness and then the love of Him.
Joshua Johnson:You've mentioned the kingdom of God a lot, and you just said, we want to be under the reign of King Jesus, yeah. And so take us through this the story. What is the Kingdom? I think in America, we have a democracy. We don't have a kingdom. Sometimes we're not like, what is the. Yes. And what is this language? This seems archaic, so take us through what is the kingdom, and how does that play out? And how did Jesus become king? And why are we under his reign in rule
Unknown:the the fourth covenant was with King David, and the Jewish people were always waiting for for the next person that was like King David, that was going to bring them to political a time of peace and prosperity politically. And so they were expecting this Messiah to be that person that was going to come in, that was going to take over the Romans and say, No, this is the way things are. Now. We're going to spread this kingdom of God throughout the world politically. And then Jesus came on the scene and was like, well, the kingdom of God is at hand. And you guys think it's one way, but it's actually a different way. It's it's a spiritual way instead. So you have these people that are so set on political, Jesus freedom, and then all of a sudden, he's on a cross. And think of how confusing that would have been, like, you have some of the disciples in the end of Matthew that are like, on the road of to Emmaus, and they're like, We don't understand what happened here. Like, Jesus was supposed to be this leader that we have on earth that was going to bring in this time of prosperity and peace for all of the Jewish people. And now he's dead. It doesn't even make sense to us, but Jesus came in a whole different way, in a spiritual or he came physically, but the results of his death was a spiritual kingdom and a spiritual reign. And today we believe that he is sitting on the throne, and that in order to call him Lord and and King means that our lives are now under his ultimate authority. And so yes, we still need to obey politics in your region. But although the one with the final, ultimate say, is King Jesus. And I think the kingship is missed a lot of the time in the West, because, as you said, we don't, we don't live under a kingdom right now, but to have a king means that you, you that somebody's ruling and reigning over a people group. And in Christianity, we believe that people group as followers of Jesus, that we're under that, and so our lives need to reflect that, and need to reflect the ways of the kingdom, looking at what Jesus did, what he preached, how he lived his life, and having our lives become a reflection of that, I think often in the church, like discipleship is learning about the church and then learning, like, how to maybe how to study the Bible. But it's not, it's not fully life encompassing for the early church. It really was. So do you ever read like, where Jesus goes up to the disciples and he's like, come follow me. And they literally drop everything to go follow him. For us, it's like, that doesn't make sense. Why? Why would you leave your job and everything behind just because he said, Come follow me. But that's where, like, context is so key. You need to understand that. So Jesus was a rabbi. He was a Jewish rabbi, or Rabbi wasn't the word, then it was just a teacher or a sage, but Jesus was this like high authority in Judaism. And as a Jewish kid, you would go to school and you would be immersed, and you would study the scripture, and it would be your everything. And by the time you were 12 or 13, you'd have the first five books of Scripture fully memorized. And then if you were good enough, you would continue in school, and you would continue memorizing the rest of the Hebrew Bible, or our Old Testament, and by the time you were 15 or 16, you would have that memorized. And then if you were good enough, you would go up to rabbis, and you would prove that you were good enough to them, and if they believed you were, they would essentially say, Come follow me, and life under them would be fully submersed. You would eat with them. You would drink with them. You would sit under their teaching. You would do everything that your rabbi did. And so now you have the disciples in our story that are out working with their in their family business, meaning that they weren't good enough to continue studying under a rabbi, even though that's their greatest heart desire since they were a little kid, 345, years old, they've wanted to be under a rabbi. And now you have a rabbi come up to them and say, Hey, you are good enough. Come follow me. Of course, you're going to leave everything behind. That would be the most incredible thing ever to hear in that moment. And I think those little historical understandings change. Your view of Scripture completely, because now it's like, okay, yes, Jesus is my king. Jesus is my rabbi. In order to figure out how to live out my life, I need to look at what he's doing, spend time in the Word, spend time studying his words and learn to bring that kingdom to to my day to day.
Joshua Johnson:Said context is key, and we need to know the historical context and how to read Scripture. I think now, since, if I'm in America, I have a couple of different lenses that I read Scripture through. One, I live in the Empire, which is, which different, right? So I'm, I'm reading from a, I don't know I could even say, an oppressor type mentality, like I'm more powerful than everybody else, for sure, to it's very highly individualistic. And so I have an individualized lens. I also look for for logic and reason. There's so many different ways that I approached the Bible without ever thinking, How was this written and what was the culture and context to the people it was written to. So take us. How do I take some of my own biases and lenses off? How should I encounter the Bible? Read the Bible. What is the context and the culture.
Unknown:It was written to specific people, and we need to realize that that it was written from a specific person or from specific people, written to specific people dealing with specific issues. Yes, it was written for us, but it wasn't written to us, and that's crucial. I don't know who said that, but I use it all the time because it's so true, and it comes down to understanding them, their that person's mindset. So the authors and the audience had a Hebrew and an Eastern mindset. And for us in the West, we have a Western and a Greek mindset. And so for us, we want to know data and facts, and if God actually created everything in six days scientifically, and how did he do it? Because contradicts, like what my science teacher said. And we want to know those things. We want to know the reasoning, and we want to call God things like Omniscient and Omnipresent, and we have these big words for him, but with the Eastern Hebrew mindset, it's totally different. They view things in story and in parables and in symbols a lot of the time, and they want to they want to share that God is like a shepherd. God is like an eagle, and you're under his wings. They want to talk in poetry and parables. For us, we read Jesus's parables, and we're like, Why can't he just say this in two sentences and explain exactly what he means, or at least, like, explain afterwards what he's trying to say? But for them, it's a beautiful thing, because that's how they understood life. For them, all of life is is spiritual. But for a Greek mindset, it's often like spiritual is bad or spiritual is good and physical is bad, and they're two separate things. But for them, that's not the case. All of life was spiritual, and so I don't think we need to learn to adapt our mindset to be Eastern and Hebrew in all of life, but we definitely need to understand these contexts and and their views of life in order to read Scripture properly and to to spend time enjoying it and falling in love with it. And I think that mindset, once I understood that mindset, it was like a key that unlocked a lot for me, and it changed my questions of things and and opened it to to the reality and the beauty of Scripture.
Joshua Johnson:So if we don't read the Bible through that mindset, the Eastern Hebraic mindset, how do we misread scripture? What are some prominent ways that you have seen people misreading scripture through a different lens.
Unknown:Yeah, I think even like starting with poetry chapter one, Genesis one, it's like God created everything in six days and then he rested. But for them, it was you need to look at who the audience was that that was being written to. So for the audience, it was the Israelites had just come out of slavery and and the gods that the Israelites had believed that humans were created to work for them. There was no days off. Your entire worth and value was based on how many bricks you could make for the Egyptians and for their gods. For the author of Genesis, who I believe was Moses, whoever you believe it is, was actually writing to them, saying, Hey, your God is different. You're made in His image. And he worked for a specific amount of time, and then he took a day off and rested. And Sabbath is something that you're now. Going to do. And instead of being created to work for him, you're created to partner with him in his image, to bring his kingdom here. And I think things like that is like, wow. Now my views of Genesis one are completely different than they they were beforehand. And like all of the Bible, 50% of it is story, a third of it is poetry, and the rest is discourse. But I think for people that grew up in the church or maybe have never read the Bible before, they think it's more just a rule book, and so they're approaching it from Okay, I need to know whether or not I'm allowed to have tattoos or have a beer tonight, like they go to it, go to it with like, what am I allowed to do? What's sin and what isn't sin, when, in reality, that's just not what Scripture is most of the time. And so that's why I think it's so important for us to zoom out and to see it from a big picture perspective. Because if you, if you do that, then it's like, wow, what I was approaching scripture for in the past had nothing to do really with what the actual story is, is trying to convey and come across.
Joshua Johnson:Yeah, it sounds like we often focus on the on things downstream, and we see all of the fruits of what is happening in in life, and we're trying to, trying to solve all of those issues, but we never go upstream to say what, what is actually making all of this chaos in the world, in our life. And how can I actually get back to that place and zooming out is such a important thing to do. You know, I think a lot of people are struggling, like, Hey, I have the Bible with me. And you, you said, even at the beginning, people will say, I'm going to start to read the Bible from front to back, and then I get stuck in Leviticus. I just quit. I'm done. So if you talk to people now, like, what is your recommendation? How do, how do people start with the Bible so that they could get it into their heads? There's a few things you said, right? Rabbis, the people that there, they were memorizing Scripture, like they got it in into their hearts. Like it wasn't just, you know, around them, it was in them, and so it's important for us to be in the Bible. So how do we do it? What's your recommendation for us?
Unknown:Yeah, I think for starters, having that foundational understanding of the storyline. So now, when you read books like Hosea, you know what's going on. Because for so many of us, it's like, yeah, we just go to church on Sunday and the pastor preaches on this one verse, and you don't know where that is in the storyline of Scripture, and it's like, what's the point of it? Then you know, and so for starters, it's understanding the full storyline. Then I would say, Yeah, reading plans are great. But if you're stuck in a reading plan, and you've done it maybe for the last 20 years, and it's now monotonous to you, I would say, switch it up completely. Do something crazy. Read the Bible in 90 days. Read the Bible in 30 days. Like do something because I think when you when you're used to doing the same thing year after year, and all of a sudden, you put a shift in it, and it changes, and you and you change the way that you study, it's gonna reignite a new passion for you. So I just read the whole Bible in February, and by doing so, you're now on day three, reading about things that you would normally be on, like week 14, reading about, you know, because you're just getting so much more packed in, and you're able to see how things relate with each other. And I think there's when you're when you're reading the Bible over the course of a year, and it's just three chapters a day, or whatever it ends up being, you might miss out on some of the stuff that you read about six months prior, but if that's not for you, then start small. I would say, read a psalm a day, maybe read through a chapter, whatever you have the mental capacity for because all of us have, we have different lives. Some are extremely busy. Some have more time. But I think we can replace certain things throughout our day with Bible reading. So maybe you drive to a coffee shop every morning. Maybe you're driving to work, you can listen to it. There are. There's so many amazing tools out there to listen to. And so some people might say, Well, the Bible, when I listen to it, it's monotonous. Well, great. There's a program called street lights, which is like a Lo Fi music in the background. And in they like they read Scripture to you, and it's not monotonous as. All. So there's options out there. I think it's so easy for us to make excuses for why we don't want to read the Bible, when, in reality, every excuse has a great contrast to it. And so if you can read it all in a year, awesome. Do it at least once like you want to understand the storyline of Scripture. If that's too much for you, go small, read some, read the Psalms, read a chapter at a time and work your way through a book. I'm an advocate for reading large chunks at once. So instead of sitting down for five minutes, maybe sit down for an hour and read, because you can read through so much text, and then you're reading it in the the lens that the original author was writing in, like we can read Philippians in what 1215, minutes, and for so many of us were stuck on meditating on two verses of Philippians, instead of realizing that this was A letter written to the church in Philippi, to specific people that were dealing with specific problems. And so yeah, there's going to be some verses and some scripture that's not going to make sense to you, but I would always recommend to just read through it anyways, because I think something does happen in our spirit and something changes within us. And if you just continue to show up and read through Scripture and are consistent with it time and time again for over the course of years, like we should all fall in love with scripture where we're reading this for the rest of our life by doing so you're going to be 10 years later recalling stuff that you read way long ago and realizing that it actually did help you, even though, in the moment, you thought that it had nothing to do with with your situation and it made no sense to you, but I would say just continue to power, power through and build those habits, because consistency in all things in life, but especially with your faith, is where you're where you're going to See it really pay off, and you're going to understand so much more.
Joshua Johnson:Do you know Zach? We've had a lot of good stories written in the in the world, in the history of human race, we've had a lot of good stories. We've had a lot of good books. But there's something different in about the Bible, multiple authors over over years and years, a lot of time. Why has the Bible stood out? Why is there life in the Bible, as opposed to all of the other great books and literature that we have that are good, and I want to be with them, but I don't want to be reading them every single day. But so what's different about this Bible that we have?
Unknown:Well, we believe that the Bible was inspired by God. So it's not like it was written by God and dropped from the sky and somebody found it, but we believe that the Holy Spirit inspired the authors of Scripture. So we they are writing the way that they do write. But the overarching theme of everything is inspired by Scripture. That's why I saw this infographic the other day. Of like, all of the ways that the Bible connects, and it's like 1000s and 1000s of ways, which is like fascinating to have 40 plus authors over 1500 years on three continents, and everything they wrote has a seamless thread through it all, where it all links up and connects. Like even just the book of Revelation has 400 allusions to the Old Testament in it, and you can't understand that book if you don't understand the Old Testament. And same with everything Jesus said, like he knew scripture, he knew the Old Testament, the Hebrew Bible in and out. And I don't believe that you can understand what he said or did without understanding the Old Testament. And you we need to understand the Bible fully from beginning to end because it is all one seamless story, and that is because of the Holy Spirit inspiring the authors. And it's the same Holy Spirit that we have today, inside of us is the one that inspired the authors. So of course, when we're reading scripture, well, you can read it one day and get one thing from it, and you can read it tomorrow and get something completely different from it, because the Holy Spirit speaks to us through the word. One of the greatest ways to hear from God is through His Word. And so we need to spend time in the Word. And whether, whether it we know where to go right away. I believe the Holy Spirit will direct you where to go and what to read. And I think we can pull pieces from it that will impact no matter what we're going through in life, and he can, and the Holy Spirit will speak to you through that.
Joshua Johnson:I. Does knowing the story and being part of the story help root us in a larger identity? I think, you know, my my thoughts are here in the culture that we're in. We, you know, we really try to find who we are from the inside of us. The Bible is actually then written for us so that we can be rooted in a larger story, something outside of us that actually impacts our lives. And so it's it's different than the culture around us, and I think that we've been all over the place, and so we have depression and anxiety and loneliness. I think because we're rootless, we don't have many roots, and I could go from one identity to another identity to another identity very quickly. How does being a part of the story of the Bible help root us
Unknown:in the West? We're all very individualized, and we only want to chase after what we feel is good or what we feel called to do. But as a believer, we kind of get rid of we put down our cross every day, or we put down our ideas and desires a lot of the time. And we're saying, Hey, I believe that life under King Jesus is the ultimate life that I can live, and even if I want to do something my way, oftentimes that may contradict with what Scripture says. And by giving him the ultimate authority, by giving the Bible the ultimate authority that it is, we're saying whatever scripture says, that's what I'm going to become and in the life that I'm gonna live out and so believers as a whole, God's people. He's saying, I wanna partner with you as a whole people group and use you to spread my kingdom throughout the world. Instead of, hey, I wanna partner with Zach to build His kingdom in order to sell more books or whatever. That's not the case at all. He's saying, I want you to create tools and live your life to in order to empower my community of people and bring more people into the community. Because as more people come into the community and become followers of Jesus, we actually go out and bless the rest of the world through it. And I think it's God's kindness, oftentimes that leads people to repentance and brings them into the kingdom. And so if we can, if we can be realize that we're part of a community of people, that we're rooted in this, that God's identity can be found in Scripture, which, in return, shows us our identity. It gives us our calling. It gives us our purpose in life, to go out to make disciples and to bless others and bring them in and to show them, hey, this is what life is like in the kingdom, and you can be a part of it too, as long as you leave the ways of the world behind and give your allegiance to King Jesus, and if you want to be a part of it, it's going to be a wild ride, and it's going to change who you become as a person, but it's all for good, even if out of the gate. It may not seem like it, because he calls us to make changes in our lives that can be uncomfortable, especially in our culture that says we are allowed to do whatever we want, and that's just not life in in God's kingdom. And he's saying, this is this is the way of the kingdom. This is how you are supposed to live your life. And as followers of Jesus, we should agree with that. We can't take some verses out of context and say this is what I want the Bible to to say or portray, because that's saying that we're God and we have the ultimate authority. But if we say that God has the ultimate authority, that means what he says goes, and it's not always easy, but it's always worth it, because then we'll, we'll be part of this restoration project that he's doing, and that's, that's a really fun place to be. It
Joshua Johnson:is a fun place to be. I think some people use the Bible to say, hey, well, they'll cherry pick verses so that it could fit whatever I want it to fit. How does then, knowing the story, knowing the Bible, give us wisdom to engage cultural issues like immigration or abortion or the economy or, you know, how does it impact our our everyday life and the way that we make decisions in the world for our community,
Unknown:yeah, because a lot of people have been harmed by it in history. So I don't ever want to like minimize that, but at the root of it is love God and love your neighbor. And that doesn't mean that everything we do needs to. To to be focused on other people. I think as a community, we need to also become healthy, and that means first looking at okay, am I loving God with my life? Am I actually spending time worshiping Him? Spending time in Scripture is my immediate circle. Actually be being changed for good. And then I believe that we should have believers in every sector of life, in in entertainment and politics and health organizations and immigration, and we should be bringing Godly wisdom to those areas. And instead of like, oh, the ultimate place for a Christian to to work is to be a pastor. I don't think that's the case at all. I think, I think God wants us to being able to bring that wisdom to places that may not actually have it and may not actually be looking out for the good of others. And I think once we once we show that God's wisdom is our ultimate authority, and that usually it's most people would agree that it is for the better of our neighborhoods and our and our cultures, then I think more people are going to want to be a part of it and and ask questions. And I don't think we need to necessarily be in those positions and like only be preaching gospel, but I think our actions can oftentimes just speak so clear, and then when people do ask questions, we can say, Oh yeah, it's because of my relationship with God. It's because I found this in the Bible. And allow you, we need to allow our lives to become a reflection of that and our testimony to be, to be used in ways to spread the gospel and bring more people in our I think I don't think we realize how incredible our stories are, and how much that can help people really understand God. And so we got to be sharing what God has done in our lives, who we were before and who we are now, and how he continues to partner with us in our day to day, and how we believe that true wisdom is found in Scripture, that story alone should want to bring other people in to also dedicate their lives to this.
Joshua Johnson:Zach, if you could talk to your readers and give them your hope for the Bible simplified. What do you hope that they would get when they read this?
Unknown:Yeah, so many people are overwhelmed by the Bible and they feel like they don't have time. And I think when people are confused by something, they just push it away and don't engage with it at all. So this book was written so that you it's 40 really short chapters, three to four pages per chapter, bringing you through the entire storyline of scripture in order to bring some clarity to that so that you do build that foundational understanding of the Bible, not to replace scripture at all, but to have that foundation so that you can fall in love with scripture the rest of your life and be confident in what you actually believe.
Joshua Johnson:Fantastic. I think they need to do that. As we get this the narrative of Scripture, what it is, unpack it. We could see it, we know it. We could situate ourselves in the story. It makes all the difference. Makes all the difference. So it's fantastic. I really hope people go out and get the Bible simplified, because it is really, really good and a necessary tool for us as believers good. I have a couple quick questions for you, Zach at the end. One, if you go back to your 21 year old self, what advice would you give?
Unknown:I would say, do one small thing towards your goal every single day, whether you feel like you have time or not. I think as a 20 something, it's like, I'm gonna work really hard towards something on Tuesday, because that's where I have time. And then if it doesn't work in the next in the next two months, I'm gonna drop it and try something new. And I think if most people have a goal of what they want to accomplish or where they want to be, and they break, break it down into small chunks every single day and continue working towards it, then you're going to see the success of it much faster than you would if it's just a ton of focus on a small amount of time. And if I would have known that with life, with business, especially because I have a huge heart for like entrepreneurship. If I would have known that, it would have changed my business strategy, and then also with the Bible, instead of just spending time in scripture on Sunday, if I spent little chunks every single day during the week, it would have compounded to so much more knowledge and and relational wisdom and understanding that I didn't have in my early 20s.
Joshua Johnson:Anything you've been reading or watching lately you could recommend, ooh,
Unknown:I really love NT Wright's stuff. So I've been going through some of his books recently. So like simply Jesus and simply Christian, just. Visiting some of those. And I think everybody should, should read those. Surprised by hope is another one. He's got really, really great thoughts. You
Joshua Johnson:can never go wrong with recommending. NT, right. Yes, fantastic. So that's that's good. The Bible simplified is available anywhere you get your books. Yes, and it's a fantastic book, so you should go out and get it. Is there anywhere else you'd like to point people to
Unknown:social media? If you're on Instagram or Tiktok, come hang out. I post a few things every single day. Zachwindahl.com but primarily this book, I think, will really, really help people.
Joshua Johnson:Excellent. Well, Zach thank you for this conversation. Thank you for walking us through the story of Scripture. Thank you for figuring out that it actually does impact our lives. It brings life and hope and joy. We have the Spirit of the Living God dwelling with us, and we're part of the story that we could actually see the kingdom of God here on earth as it is in heaven. And we have a part to play in the the reconciliation, redemption of all things, making all things new with Jesus. Fantastic. So Zach, thank you. It was a fantastic conversation. Thank you. Really appreciate you.
Unknown:Bye,