Shifting Culture
Shifting Culture invites you into transformative conversations at the intersection of faith, culture, justice, and the way of Jesus. Each episode, host Joshua Johnson engages guests who challenge conventional thinking and inspire fresh perspectives for embodying faith in today's complex world. If you're curious about how cultural shifts impact your faith journey and passionate about living purposefully, join us as we explore deeper ways to follow Jesus in everyday life.
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Shifting Culture
Ep. 315 Heather Thompson Day - Your Circumstances Aren't Your Story
In this episode, I'm joined by Heather Thompson Day, whose insights challenge our perceptions of success, passion, and the presence of God in our lives. Heather boldly explores the idea that our true story isn't found in the circumstances we face, but rather in how we respond to them. We dive into themes from her powerful book, What If I'm Wrong?, discussing how passion is not about acclaim or abundance but about faithful presence even in uncertainty and failure. Together, we uncover how deeply God's faithfulness and presence are intertwined in our stories—especially when life doesn't go according to our plans. Heather’s wisdom and authenticity offer a refreshing invitation to live with courage and purpose, even when we're navigating doubts and difficulties. So join us for an honest conversation about embracing passion, redefining success, and finding peace in God's enduring presence.
Dr. Heather Thompson Day is an interdenominational speaker, an ECPA bestseller, and has been a contributor for Religion News Service, Christianity Today, Newsweek and the Barna Group. Her new podcast, What If I’m Wrong? debuted in the top 200 of all Christian podcasts. Heather was a communication professor for nearly 15 years teaching both graduate and undergraduate students in Public Speaking, Persuasion, and Social Media. She is now the founder of It Is Day Ministries, a nonprofit organization that trains churches, leaders, and laypeople in what Heather calls Cross Communication, a gospel centered communication approach that points you higher, to the cross, every time you open your mouth.
Heather’s writing has been featured on outlets like the Today Show, and the National Communication Association. She has been interviewed by BBC Radio Live and The Wall Street Journal. She believes her calling is to stand in the gaps of our churches. She is the author of 9 books; including It’s Not Your Turn, I’ll See You Tomorrow, Can I Sit Here? and What If I’m Wrong?
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I don't anymore think that our story is the circumstances that happened to us. The story is how we respond despite the circumstances that have happened you.
Joshua Johnson:Heather. Heather, welcome to shifting culture. Excited to have you on thanks for joining
Unknown:me, my absolute honor. Happy to be here. Yeah, I'm
Joshua Johnson:excited to dive into, what if I'm wrong your book, and so I would love to you know this book is, I think, a lot about passion, failure, fear is God actually present with me if I'm not successful in worldly ways? So since I think passion is part of it, what are you passionate about? What is passion for you and what are you passionate about? What are you trying to bring to the world?
Unknown:I am passionate about helping people realize that they've been invited into something, that their life matters, and showing up to your life matters, and how you navigate each day actually matters. I'm really passionate about that. Absolutely passionate just about encouraging people in the gifts that I see in them. So if I recognize something about you, it's very important to me that I've at least been faithful, right? If we've crossed paths and told you, man, I see this in you. And then, of course, I'm passionate about my family and God and ministry.
Joshua Johnson:How does that relate to some of our calling and our identity and who we are as we're passionate about something. And sometimes I think, hey, maybe for you, as you were a teacher for many years, and that could get you could get caught up like, this is my identity. This is who I am, or I'm a communicator. I'm a speaker. This is who I am. How do we move from a identity place of this is what I do, to this is who I am. This is the value that I bring to the world and the values that I want to see lived out in the world.
Unknown:Yeah, I feel like everything I named to you, I didn't even realize it till you've just said it, everything I named to you is me sharing who I am, right? And I relayed those as passions. And I'm just telling you, it has been a lot of work and time and energy for me to get to this space. Because I do wonder, three years ago, if you would have said, What are you passionate about? What my answer would have been, because a lot of times I think we look for titles to validate calling, but we are all called, right? And so, so understanding what it is that God has gifted you with uniquely and then how do you keep showing up into the world with that? I just think that that's very important. So like, Okay, I would have said before my I'm passionate about teaching, right? But really what I'm passionate about is, like, encouraging people, and when I know that, it no longer matters whether or not I have a paycheck as a teacher, I can go through life looking and paying attention to people and finding ways to encourage them, and I don't need a paycheck or a committee to meet to tell me that I'm allowed to do that.
Joshua Johnson:Sometimes you don't need a paycheck, but a paycheck is kind of nice. You've navigated places and times in your life, and you lay it out in your book where you didn't have much money left over. Your dad had Alzheimer's. You're trying to pay for his care. And Alzheimer's, you don't have that money. So how do we continue? What is passion? How do we know that God is with us when we see financial failure or difficulty that we don't know where our next paycheck is gonna come from. We don't know what's gonna happen.
Unknown:I wish I could answer that, you know, but the whole point of passion is that it's what you are willing to keep doing despite not having those things. So I can't control. I mean, maybe some people can, but for me, especially in ministry, like I can't control there's certain things I'm not willing to do to try to make more money, because that's not the point for me. You know what I mean? So I don't know how to answer that. For many years, the way I answered that was, I stayed at my day job, and that afforded me the opportunities to to do ministry and stuff when I could, until it felt like God had moved me into a direction where, okay, now I can do this full time. But this wasn't like an overnight thing. This is for me, this is 13 years, you know, of making a little money here in my podcast, and making a little money here trying to write a book that a few 1000 people are going to read and making a little money here speaking at a church. I mean, I, I am not somebody who, still, at this present moment, I would say, has known abundant excess. I just haven't and so and indeed, Can I be honest with you, like some of the most, I'm not saying that people who are. Super wealthy don't know God, because I don't think that's true. I just think life is life, and some of us get afforded opportunities and circumstances, sometimes not really because of us right life just happens. And great, you were at the right place at the right time, and you got lucky. And I think that's wonderful, if that happens to you, but I do want to be very careful that we don't equate money to like success in God's kingdom, or that that means God has somehow forgotten you. Because I'm telling you some of the most spiritually sound people I know, even right now, struggle financially, and I still don't fully know what to do with that, but it is all I can tell you. Is what I have seen, and I am telling you some of like I'm saying people with deep, spiritual, prophetic voices and gifting, struggling financially. And so how do we learn how to just stay in this passion and be faithful and obedient despite accolades open doors and resources?
Joshua Johnson:My wife came to me the other day. We, we adopted a Syrian family, refugee family that came in in the beginning of January this year, and so we've been walking with them. And we, we chipped in a bunch of money. Other organizations chipped in a bunch of money for a car for his family. Is a family of nine, and he needs a minivan. He got in an accident last week, and, you know, the insurance company is only going to give him a very fraction amount of what he paid. And he doesn't have a job yet. He doesn't have, like, there's he doesn't have anything. And my wife is like, Hey, we've given everything to us. It feels like a waste. Like we just wasted this money. We wasted this time. It's all gone now it's a waste. I think sometimes we we we have that. We have the thing of, like, Hey, I've poured myself out. God, why didn't you show up? Like, where are you in the midst of this? Like, why does it happen to people that don't have anything, and we're trying to give to people who don't have anything. Like, what do we do when we feel like we're pouring out, we're pouring out and nothing's coming back to us. It feels like we've spent all this time and this energy for other people, and it was just a waste of time, even though I know, like, intellectually, it's not a waste. Emotionally, hey, it's a waste,
Unknown:yeah. I mean, I think God always comes back to you. I mean, I think we do experience this is something I've been asking myself a lot. I just got back from an event where I so clearly saw the hand of God working through me and with these people. And so I would say to people, where in your life do you see the hand of God? Your brain is always going to tell you where you don't, where do you see it? And is that enough to know I'm in the hand of God. For me, that has become enough. And again. This is not like I woke up one day. This is a this has been a very long process of me at first, if you read the book, I'm literally shouting at my ceiling, saying, Where are you? I don't feel that way anymore. And I think some of it too. Like, was Jesus's ministry successful? Did Jesus waste his time? Jesus enters towns. Jesus preaches sermons. Jesus does ministry, and it says and that there he could do no miracles. There is he successful, there is a and this is what it means to enter into this upside down kingdom and to do this Christian thing. And I really do think it's the narrow road. I really do think most of us aren't actually going to sign up for this thing, because it's not often blessing you in the way that we see online, right? But what we will experience, and I can promise you this, because I know this to be true based on my experience, you will see God. You will get to know, and I'm just telling you, something hits different when you start to realize God is active in my life. There's just it makes my I actually feel tears welling up in my eyes just saying this to you. You couldn't like there's what price do I put on that? I was just thinking about the parable of where Jesus says the kingdom of God is like a farmer who sows seed. And some of the places that he sows seed is on rocks. What good farmer? So seed in rocks? This is the upside down Kingdom where to be obedient to the work is success. It's not about what actually grows. It's about you being faithful with what God has placed in your hand. And I'm telling you, as you start living this life, there's going to be a lot of failure. I'm not saying that there's not I don't want to take away from that, because it stings and it hurts and it's like, Man, I tried so hard here, but I promise you, you will also see growth. And fruit. You will see both you do this thing long enough, you will have the miracle stories that you say, oh my goodness, I can't believe I just saw God work through me. And you have to allow those things to carry you through the seasons where you don't see anything.
Joshua Johnson:Well, that's the thing. How do you keep it carrying you like we've seen miracles. We've seen God show up. We've seen we we know that he's present with us, like he's like spoken in the midst of heartache and really difficult situations, like he's provided for in ways that we couldn't imagine, but we still focus on the the negative aspects, like here and now, like, because it's present, it's in front of us. How do how do we know? I don't know. Is it in my body? Do I remember it? Is it something that, like, how do I keep reminding myself that God is present even in the midst of failure, because I've seen it and he's been faithful. I know it.
Unknown:Yeah, you keep reminding yourself. And the reality is you're not gonna nobody signs up to do this for 10 years. This is gonna be God, I'm here today. What do you have for me today, if I knew, or if I knew 13 years ago when I started this thing, some of the difficulties that lied ahead for me, I don't I don't know that I would have done it right, but the Spirit will empower you as you show up each day, and a prayer I pray every single day is, Lord, please align my thoughts with your thoughts, that my thoughts would work for you and not against you. And he's been very faithful to me in that process. But I still, I tell my husband almost every morning I've got to go wrestle down the bowl, and that's what I do. It feels like that. It feels like I'm trying to wrestle down my own earthly desires, my own earthly understanding of what success is, or to be in God's favor is, and Lord, help me release myself of that so I can receive what you actually have for me.
Joshua Johnson:You know, one of the things I love in your book is you write about our mutual friend, Danielle Cardis. Danielle and I went to high school together. She's great. I was there when she got engaged. She got engaged at a swell season concert. Her now husband was called up on stage. He like, set it up with the band. And, like,
Unknown:she got engaged right on, sending her a text about this right after.
Joshua Johnson:It was amazing. And, you know, Bill and Melinda Gates were there, so they went up and congratulated them at the end, while we're hanging out, it was, it was fantastic. I love that I had a party. I came back from Korea at a party at her restaurant when she first started. So she's this chef. Her dream was, was a restaurant, but the restaurant wasn't doing very well. And, you know, she was in, she didn't know if she could, she could do it. One of the things that, as you were talking with her, you had a realization that maybe I'm not going to be saved out of this pit at the moment. Yeah, maybe no one's coming. Maybe I the, I don't know, maybe God's presence is enough for me. What did you start to learn in the midst of this golden scepter chapter? Yeah, Danielle was talking about with you,
Unknown:you know, when I first started to even write that chapter, I was going a much different place than I ended up going if you read to the end of the book. Because I do have this miracle thing that happens at the end of the book, that when I'm first writing this chapter about that, I'm talking to Danielle, and what happened was she said to me, I'll never forget it. We were on the phone, and I'm standing in my room, and she goes, no one's coming. And I was like, it was the first time that I really let myself believe, oh my goodness, maybe no one's coming. I kept thinking, eventually someone's going to help and they're going to help, and they're going to tell me what to do, or they're going to help me get to the next level. They're going to give me the pearls of wisdom, right? Or connect me to their resources. Something's going to happen. And then when she said no one's coming, it was the first time that I really let myself believe that, and then I was kind of faced with this, yeah, is this enough? Will it be enough to know that I've been obedient and know that I've been faithful? If this is all there is, and can I tell you I was like in a really dark place? So also, I want to say to the person listening right now, yes, you will absolutely have seasons of failure, you will also have seasons of great joy. You to be engaged in your own life and to live this thing is going to bring you both. And I actually now I view failure and stuff very differently, where I used to just feel like, well, what if I do this and I fail? And now it's like, I think if I if my kid is trying to ride a bike and they fall. Am I looking at them like you are that is so embarrassing, you just fell down? Or am I like, man, look at them. They're getting back up and they fell. Oh, Oh, nope. They're back up. Okay, oh, they're back up. And then eventually, you know, as I'm watching this, I'm going to be like, Wow, this is incredible. Look at them. Go. I'm going to go in and say, Hey, move your arm right here. Put your foot like this on the pedal. Hey, sit up. Put your head straight. I think that's what God does with us. I think God delights in US engaged in our lives, and the greatest failure is to just be disengaged and to say, or here's another parable, right to bury the talent and say, well, then I'm not going to do anything, because I can't risk losing it. I think a lot of us bury our talents because we're afraid we won't have enough or or I'll wait until I have more resources, and that's when I'm gonna go His strength is made perfect. In weakness, go weak, and I in my experience, I'm just gonna tell you what I have seen and what I have experienced in my weakness is when I've most seen the provision of God. But I and I think that's available to all of us. It's just we're waiting till we're strong to
Joshua Johnson:go, as you say, the definition of passion at the beginning is suffering. Yes, passion is suffering as it is, why we call it The Passion of the Christ, right, right? It's like the suffering of Jesus and but we often think that if we're in our passion, this the safest place to be, but passion equals suffering, and it could only happen in risk, yes, and you're going to fail and risk, you're not always going to succeed, right? Reframe this for me, reframe passion for me. Like, what? How do we get to a place of, okay, it's okay to risk, and it's necessary to risk if you're in your passion.
Unknown:Yeah? So yes, the word passion means to suffer. So the way I say this is passion is not what we do because we're experiencing affirmation, accolades, open doors and resources. Often, that's what we say. Though we're like, oh, I'm doing this because I'm passionate about it, but really what we're enjoying affirmation, or we're enjoying open doors or we're enjoying resources, passion is what we can't stop doing, despite not having any of those things. Figuring out what your passion is leads you, in my experience, to this deeper layer of life where I no longer need my circumstances to confirm what I know to be true about who I am. This is like when the next stage of life begins.
Joshua Johnson:I think it's easier to think about our stuff, our own suffering, our individual suffering, passion, and it's a lot more. I think it's harder when it's people you love that are close to you, as you see your dad with Alzheimer's, as somebody who gave his life to Jesus and ministry and was in it, and and then seeing him like disappear in front of you. I think seeing other people wasn't like in the midst of seeing other people suffer, that you love, that you're close to, that you care about.
Unknown:Um, something I have to say to myself regularly is this story isn't over. I think sometimes when we're in the midst of whatever darkness or uncertainty, we think that it ends here, but it doesn't. And here's the thing, like my this is what I talk about in the book, actually, like my dad's story doesn't end with my dad. If my dad dies today, he has been a pillar now in my life, where I've learned thing I am a different person because of what I watch, how I watched him navigate and engage in his life. These are and then hopefully, my kids, right? They become different people because of them watching me, who was watching him. We do our lives are not our singular lives. And I do think in Heaven's perspective, it's heaven is watching things go from generation to generation to generation to generation. And so sometimes we may look at our one little individual story and say, well, this doesn't seem like this doesn't seem like a great story, but we're not realizing that we're a part of a much bigger, broader landscape. And all that to say as well. I don't anymore think that our story is the circumstances that happened to us. The story is how we respond despite the circumstances that have happened. And so if you I mean my dad, as long as his mind was clear, always said, don't worry about like God is with me, a spirit that never broke. I think that that is something that all of Heaven has to stop and marvel at. Look at this person, despite no all these things that have happened to them, and they're still proclaiming that God is good, that God is with them, that they have seen the hand of God over their lives. That's something I also think, like supernaturally, what is, what do agents of darkness do with a person like that? I think it has to be quite, quite a scare or a threat to their territory. When we become people, when we become the story how we respond. That's the story, the
Joshua Johnson:incredible. Thing, absolutely incredible thing is we have Holy Spirit with us, yeah, like living you in us, like, closer than the air we breathe, closer than our next breath. Like, presence is there constantly. How do we pay attention to that presence? Not just, not just intellectually know or like, say, hey, Holy Spirit, I'm glad you're here with me. But how do we pay attention to that in the midst of just our everyday lives, so that we can start to be like your dad and say He is with me all the time?
Unknown:I'll just I can only speak to what I've experienced and what I've seen, I think we are so busy, like, let me just give this very I don't know, small example I remember, this is probably three years ago when I started writing this book, going on a walk. And it was like, the first time I even heard the birds. And it really struck me because I heard it. And typically, when I'm walking or, you know, I'm like, so busy, or I'm running from here to there, I'm so deep in my own thoughts that I'm not even recognizing what's around me. Ever since that experience, I've made it a point to say, Can you feel the wind? Do you hear the birds? How can I hear if I can't hear that which is external to me in nature, you think I'm in tune with what's internal to me? I would say, not. And so the first thing that I would do, if somebody's saying, like, how do I hear the voice of God? I would say, can you hear the birds start going on a walk, and listen, take 30 I mean, how many of us even do that, taking 30 minutes to go outside and just listen? I don't know. How many people are living that way. And I'm telling you, when you start making these mental shifts, so much more becomes you won't, you won't even say anymore. Like, how do I know God's voice? You're gonna it's gonna be you're gonna hear it as clearly as you hear the birds. It's going to be this internal also, let me say this too, because I think sometimes people think God speaks external to us. In my experience, it's deeply internal. It's a voice that you don't need ears for. It's not something you hear with your ears. It's something you experience with your soul, and so you have to be fully present in your own body to even recognize what is deeply internal to you. But the invitation has always been for God to live in
Joshua Johnson:you if we need to be conscious of our bodies, what does that look like for you, what, how? What are some practices to help you, like, recognize where you are. If I look on the outside, and I look at your life, you look you look busy, you're a mom, you're a speaker, you're traveling, you're going, you're doing things. And, I mean, I, I can imagine when I'm busy, I, you know, I'm not attuned. What? Are practices for you? Help you?
Unknown:Oh, can I please share this? Because so the number one thing I know that, in my experience, that I've done that has been that has changed everything for me, as far as connecting to God, is I make I mean, every morning I get up and I spend time with God, and I've been doing this for probably 13 years. I get up, for me, it's 5am but that's, I'm not saying that other people have to do that. For me, I have three children, and so if I don't get up at 5am that's like, the only time that they're not up, right? And when they were little babies, they might get up too. And so then it was almost scary to even get up that early, but I get up at 5am and I just sit some. I mean, sometimes I'll just sit with my coffee. I mean, let's even talk about that. How often are you praying and you're not saying anything, but we want to hear God as we're talking all the time. You know what I mean, like making time to just sit in the presence of God. And then, of course, for me, scripture has been a deep part of I have often I mark, you know, in my Bible when I feel like, Oh, this is for me. I feel this in my soul, like God is speaking this to me today. So I'll put the date on it, and then as I go through it, I go through my Bible every year. As I go through it the next year, it's always interesting for me to see, oh, these are the things that were speaking to me last year at this time. Another practice that I do all the time is, as I said earlier, I go on I go on walks with God. I've gone out to eat with God. I mean, I've done a lot of really creepy Christian, weird things, but it has been, I don't know, I treat God as if this is a real relationship that I'm invited into, and I want, and I want to make space for that, really. I mean, what do you do in a marriage, right? If I'm not making time to have communication and stuff with my husband and I, we tear it up. We walk the block all the time. You know, having that same intentionality with God. And actually, I'll say this too, as we're talking about being busy, something that's very important to me is I will never put out more than I'm putting in. The world doesn't need more of me, and I promise. You, the more I'm, the busier I am, the more it's only me I'm giving you. So the greater the output if I'm traveling something I do now is I fast every Monday, and that's because I've typically gone out over the weekend and, you know, spoken somewhere, but then Monday is time for me to make sure I'm receiving from God, so that when I go out again in two weeks, I'm I'm sharing with people what now I've been replenished by the Spirit and experienced you know. So depending on how much output you're doing, you really got to look at your input. Is your input greater than your output? If it is not, I would really caution you against that. How
Joshua Johnson:do you know? For you, how do you know when your your output is greater than your input? What are the signs for you
Unknown:that's good? I am with God daily. Okay, I can't tell you this enough. I can't even tell you how many times anymore that I'm talking about God or thinking about God, or reading my Bible or or listening to a book that somebody else wrote. How do I know that I'm in line with the Spirit? I would say when I'm at peace, but I don't know that that's because sometimes I'll, I'll, like, finish worship, and then my kids will irritate me, and I'll yell, you know what I mean? So it's like, and I was just there. So it's just like, maybe it's about how quickly I can bring myself back. Am I feeling off for you? And I mean, some people will irritate you as you go through your day regardless, just because you're a human being. Yeah, you know what? I mean, that's just normal. But how quickly Am I able to come back, and how quickly Am I able to recognize, Oh, that wasn't. Am I self aware enough to know, Oh, that wasn't. That wasn't a good response, you know. And Lord, forgive me. And am I saying to my kids? Hey, I do. I want you to know that was wrong. Mommy should not speak to you that way. That was wrong of me, and I hope that you'll forgive me, you know what I mean, like, Am I in line? I guess here's a really great way to look at it. Am I revealing love to other people and to God. If you are doing that, I would say you're in you're in line, you're in spirit, you're in sync. It is God who empowers you to bring love to other people in this world.
Joshua Johnson:You know, when you were talking about your dad and you were talking about your your kids, you were thinking about generations that heaven is looking at generations. How has your perspective started to shift and change? Give me your trajectory thinking about your own life? Yeah, into a generational perspective of what's happening. How did that shift and change? And how can we get a generational perspective?
Unknown:It has given me a great deal of patience, because I I trust now that whatever it is I think I'm supposed to have done in my life, right, all I can do is be faithful and obedient, and if whatever things aren't happening, I'm okay, right? Because as long as I'm inching whatever this story is forward as best as I can for my if I'm making a mark in other people's lives, I don't know what then happens to my student. Maybe they get to do the thing that I prayed I would do, and then I'm still a part of it, which is exciting and incredible. I also want to say like this has been a shift for me, is especially as a woman in ministry, I did an event for the apprentice gathering in September in Kansas, and it was, you know, lots of different men and women, but a lot of the women just held me after I spoke and cried, and I really it was the first time that I realized I'm living their prayers. They just prayed for a space right to be able to or, who knows, who cut them down, or what different ways that they experienced difficulty and resistance. And so there were things that, just by nature of the time period in which they were born, they were not able to do that now, as we're now a part of this family of God me as one of their spiritual daughters, I get to do but would I be able to do it had they not prayed for it first? Right? Like, I think all of our prayers are deeply connected. We
Joshua Johnson:were having a gathering. I worked in the Middle East for years, and we were going out with a bunch of people, and we were working with refugees in the Middle East and Muslim refugees. And at the end of our gathering, we had a bunch of missionaries that have been in that country for for years to come, just pray over us who were in that region and were working. And we were just sharing stories of what happened this past week, where, you know, Jesus showed up in incredible ways. Like we heard dreams of Jesus, there were healings. Like people decided to start following Jesus. Like it was an incredible, incredible and we were just telling stories. And these two women that I was sitting next to that been in the country for decades, they looked at each other, and they started weeping and crying and said, we've been praying for this. Years for 25 There you go. There you go. This is what we've been praying for, and it's, it gave me a new perspective, right? Just like it did for you at the at at the apprentice gathering, there's a new perspective like, Oh, I'm not my own, yeah, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants that came until this hard ground, just so that I can be here when the Spirit is moving and something is happening. It's just incredible, just to shift that perspective. Yeah, see, there's a new generation, and generations are changing and moving. It's pretty incredible once you step back and you can start to see what the Spirit of God is doing in that place,
Unknown:and then to realize there's going to be people in their calling, because I was here, you know, and so that I don't know, it just changed things for me on my immediacy, or the things I have to see God do in my life. I don't really have a list of that anymore.
Joshua Johnson:You don't have a list of that where you want. You don't. What is your list?
Unknown:What is your I did have quite the list of all the things I needed to see. What's on it now, nothing i Now, literally, this is the first year 2025 where you know how you like. I'm somebody that always writes everything down. So I always make like, what are my goals? I don't have any right other than to I tell the Lord, I do want to experience joy, and I just want to be present in this thing. So I want to be open to whatever God is doing. But I have had to remove for me, and maybe everybody's not like this, but I've had to remove how I think this has to look, and as I've done this, I'm able to receive what God is actually doing. And most of the time, of course, guys, it's so much better than all the plans that you thought you had.
Joshua Johnson:Yeah, I've always struggled a little bit with, like, five year plans, 10 year plans, because I've always said, I think the core and the key to life is to listen to Jesus and DO what He says. Like, that's it. Like, if you could just do that, he's gonna tell you the plan. It's gonna get you'll get there, listen to Jesus and DO what He says. If you could get to that place, I think you were gonna be in a much better spot. It's not gonna be about us anymore, you know, yes, gonna be about Jesus. Yeah, about what he is doing on Earth, but he's gonna take your your your gifts, your talents, the way that he's created you, created you, and and give you some of those opportunities. So as you've you've actually taken away those goals in 2025 think about the past and think about now, and, okay, how has that been different? Like, what has been, what's been a struggle in the midst of really not having those goals, and what has been life giving?
Unknown:I think I'm at a point right now, what are we in June, where it feels very life giving. I think it was much more of a struggle as I was going through 2024 I mean, I just think my personality is somebody who I'm an Enneagram three, if anybody knows what that is, my personality is. Are you really okay? So you understand okay? So this is hard. This is a hard for hallelujah. I am somebody who always, like, had a plan and was strategized. How am I going to get there? And what I've experienced in my own walk with God is that He doesn't give me the plan like he just doesn't tell me. I That was my frustration. That's where I was always coming into conflict with the Lord is I'm saying, what's the plan here? What are we doing? What's next? And all, all I've received from God is himself, not a plan, just more revealing of the character of God. Now this feels not like friction, not that I don't still have like hopes. I don't mean to say that, like I'm so altruistic now, like it's not like I don't still have hopes, and, of course, like I still want financial provision, but I've even like, my prayers have changed. I don't spend that much time in my prayers, and I used to just walk the block over and over and over and over again, like, help me financially, help me provide for my debt. Help me make more money on the podcast. Help me get more downloads. Help me, Lord, if you're here, right, I don't do that as much more. Now my prayers are more like gratitude, because I can even see it where before, I couldn't see it because I was so focused on what I needed God to still do, that I couldn't see all the things God had already done. So now it's like a lot of gratitude. And opened my eyes to see what you have for me to see today. Opened my eyes to see the person that you have me to see today. And something about this experience is that every day is exciting in some ways, right? Because it's like, who's I don't know what God's going to do today. I don't know who he's going to bring across my path today. That's
Joshua Johnson:such a different posture. And I think it's a deeper posture in our Christian walk, in Christian life, and our relationship with God, to take that I think before in your life, I think in my life, and lots of people's lives, I think when we. First start following Jesus. It's really a transactional relationship, right? Like, don't realize. No, you don't, not at all. Like, it took me a long time. It's like, God, I'm gonna do anything for you. This is what I and then I say, God, look, look at what I'm doing for you. Like, what are you gonna do for me now? Now? Yeah, exactly. And so how do we move from transaction into a deeper place with God as He reveals who he is? Like, this is like, the best marriage is a non transactional marriage, right? That's like, I'm starting to, like, get more and more of my wife and reveal who she is, and it's not about me. Like we one upping each other, trying to get stuff from each other. How do we move from from transaction to something deeper? For
Unknown:me, I remember I was on a run, and this is just, I mean, I'm you guys. I haven't graduated like this is all very new to me, this space that I'm in. But I was on a run, I think it was like in September. And I just remember very clearly having a thought download to my head that I perceived to be the Holy Spirit, saying, I don't have to be blessing you in order for you to be a blessing. And it was the first time that I realized, like, I don't have to perceive that God is in that moment being good to me, for me to then go be good to somebody else. And when you realize this shift, I get to experience goodness and blessing at any time I want. It is always available to me, regardless of my circumstances or situation. I can go bring blessing. I can go bring goodness into somebody else's life or into this world in general. And so therefore, I am experiencing the goodness and the blessing of God available to me at any time, and these shifts change everything, and the nearness of God feels so much nearer.
Joshua Johnson:I'm just want to let you know. So I was reading your book, and, you know, resonating with so much in your book. And you know, failure what I'm doing. You know, in January, I stepped out of being an executive director of an organization, and started to say, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna be doing creative work full time, and I don't get, I don't have any money coming in, like, so there's nothing coming in. One of the things that I've started, I started to do, was I worked on a one man show, so I have the script written, and now I just need to, like, procure funding to finish it and then go do it. And as I'm reading your book, and I get to the to the end, and the the woman who contacts you says, It's a show, I started weeping and crying. I don't like I I haven't had, I'm just saying I haven't had an experience like that in a book for a long time that it just hit me, and it hit me hard, like, God's like, he's just present with me in the midst of, you know, what I'm doing, what I'm going through, even though I feel like, Hey, are you doing Anything for me, God, like, where are you? Like, yeah, is this gonna work? I don't know. I'm risk. I'm taking a risk, and we're gonna see and I'm I'm throwing, throwing myself out there. I don't know. I might drown, but it may be worth it, and I'll pick myself up. So thank you for giving me yourself and like opening yourself up so that you can, okay,
Unknown:well, you wouldn't know this. You would not know this. But I wonder, is this a God moment my dad, when he left Broadway, that's what he did, is he made a one man show. And it sounds wild, but it was incredible. And he did Jonah, Jonah. And he, like, told the story of Jonah, but he acted it out in a one man show musical theater, and he just went from church to church to church doing this one man show. So I don't know what your one man show is, but I am telling you I watched somebody make that a reality and make it happen. And what I don't you might be the only other person I've ever met that told me that you have a one man show. Yeah. So is that interesting? I think it's interesting. And so I that's what I'm saying. God is always moving. He is always looking for ways to encourage us and affirm us, and helps keep going. In my mind, that's a Josh. Keep going. There's something here.
Joshua Johnson:I think so. And that's what it did for me. It's like, in the midst of, okay, we finished the script, we have it, like, I don't know how I'm gonna get money for this to be able to do, like, finish the way that we have actually written it, because we've written it with video and, like, filming and animation and stuff. So I just don't know, but it just encouraged me, like, keep going, and it's, you know, God's in it, like something's there, and it's great. So just thank you for that, thank you for your dad doing a one man show, which
Unknown:is, yeah, yeah. And listen, my mentor always tells me it's just money. And the only time we can say it's just money is when we've seen God provide. Died in Uncanny ways. He has. I mean, whatever we think has to happen. I never would have thought that this woman, I mean, just not from Twitter. I mean, it is the most random, crazy thing. I was talking about it with my brother the other day, and he was like, so what does she get out of it? And I was like, nothing right, other than to know that she's been faithful to the Lord in this time, that she's supporting me. Yeah, you don't have to know where the money's going to come from. For the money to come
Joshua Johnson:it's the same thing. You know, as a church, we're looking there's a few things that we want to do. And as we had some people speaking into us as a church, one person said, you know, the money is the easiest thing for God. Like, money is the easiest thing for God. And it just, yeah, everything. Like, like, the the weight of everything just came off. Like, oh, like, if this is God, he's gonna do it, he's gonna show up, yeah. And so as it's amazing, yeah, it's good. Well, Heather, if you could talk to your readers and the people that pick up your book, what hope do you have for this book? What if I'm wrong and for the readers of this book? Yeah,
Unknown:I would invite everybody to submit themselves before the Lord today, right now, as you pause the episode and say, God, what could I be getting wrong about who I am or about who you are, or about how this thing is supposed to go, give me eyes to see and ears to hear. Align my thoughts with your thoughts, that my thoughts would work for you and not against you. Take that posture, pray it every single day, over and over. What could I be getting wrong? How could I be seeing this differently? Align my thoughts with your thoughts, and as you go through and this is again, I can't say this enough, this is not going to be like and then you're going to wake up in the morning, and everything is going to be amazing. Commit to yourself to this process, and God will start revealing Himself to you, day by day by day, little by little, by little by little. So that when we look back without our 10 year plan, but when we look back 10 years ago, we say, Oh, my goodness, I can't believe where God has taken me.
Joshua Johnson:Amazing. That's awesome. So I hope people do get that and walk in step with that. Yes, read the book. The book is fantastic. Thank you so much. Read the book. Couple quick questions I have at the end. One, if you go back to your 21 year old self, what advice would you give
Unknown:21 I had just called off an engagement, so I was
Joshua Johnson:congratulations. I'm so thankful for women like you. My wife did the same thing. Get out of here. She was she was three weeks from her her wedding, and she said no, and now I'm here, so I'm so thankful for women like you. So well done.
Unknown:I love that. Yes, mine was two months before. Okay, what would I tell my 21 year old self? I would say, trust yourself. I didn't hear that a lot, you know. And if anything, I didn't trust myself at all. I was like something I'm learning now at 38 How do I trust myself? I would say, Trust yourself, trust that the Spirit of God is leading in you, and so trust, trust yourself to be obedient to that
Joshua Johnson:good anything you've been reading or watching lately, you could recommend,
Unknown:I just finished knowing Christ today, by Dallas Willard, I'm almost Oh, this is really good, too. NIJ Gupta tell her story. I'm I have like an hour left of that one too. It's fantastic for any women looking for understanding of women's roles in Scripture. He has this incredible thing on Phoebe, not just carrying the letter to the Romans, but actually expositing the letter, explaining the letter, speaking on behalf of Paul as the church goes through the letter of Romans. It's just incredible. His research on that,
Joshua Johnson:yes, it's so good. And yeah, we, you know, the organization. Now, my wife is the director. After I stepped away, we were co directors. Now she's the director, but they're big into women in leadership. Oh, women and men, but as people are now asking questions were given away. Tell her story by NIJ Gupta. And this is the book has been fantastic one, because NIJ is a man, you
Unknown:and I have the same God, or what that like so many of our things like, align, isn't
Joshua Johnson:that weird? Yeah, it's all right. But that's a great recommendation. That's really good, fantastic. So how could people go out get what if I'm wrong, and where would you like to point people to? How could they connect with you? Oh,
Unknown:goodness. So my website has everything. I have a devotional. I send out every single Friday night that we're trying to get more. We're trying to reach 10,000 people by the end of 2025 so would love we're almost there too. We're at like, almost 9000 so would love for anybody that's looking for a Friday night encouragement to sign up for that. You can do that by going to heatherthamsonda.com and, of course, the book and social media, all those things are@heatherthompsonday.com
Joshua Johnson:Great. Well, Heather, thank you. This was a fun conversation. Really enjoyed connecting with you, seeing where so many things overlap. And man. So thank you for giving us encouragement to be able to walk in knowing that the God's presence is with us in the midst of our circumstance, and it's about the way that we react to our circumstances more than what is actually happening around us. So thank you. It was fantastic.
Unknown:Love my honor. Thank you for letting me be here. You
