Ep. 368 Faith Womack - Discovering the Fullness of Scripture: Context, Wonder, and Worship

In this episode, I’m joined by Faith Womack, known to many as Bible Nerd Ministries, for a deeply refreshing conversation on how to read Scripture with clarity, curiosity, and joy. Faith shares her own story of growing up with mishandled and misapplied Bible teaching, and how learning the basics of hermeneutics transformed everything for her. We talk about context, genre, the big story of God’s redemption, why so many of us default to reading ourselves into the text, and how Scripture becomes truly alive when we allow it to reveal who God is rather than simply serve our needs. If you’ve ever felt bored, intimidated, confused, or stuck in your Bible reading, this episode is a hopeful path back toward awe, depth, and worship. And as Faith reminds us, understanding the Word isn’t reserved for scholars, it’s an invitation extended to every follower of Jesus.

Faith Womack is the founder of Bible Nerd Ministries and a content creator who aims to inspire Christians to get back into the Word of God. Her courses, including “Bible Study Bootcamp” and “Theology Bootcamp,” have reached thousands, and her Bible study content has reached over 10 million people on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube.  

Faith aims to empower Christians not only to understand the Bible but also to enjoy it. Her debut book, No More Boring Bible Study: Why Taking Scripture Seriously Is Easier and More Exciting Than You Think releases from Zondervan in November 2025. 

Faith has a B.A. in biblical and theological studies from Covenant College and a M.A.T.S. from Erskine Seminary. When she’s not filming or teaching, Faith spends her time with her family going on hikes, crafting and drinking way too much coffee. 

Faith's Book:

No More Boring Bible Study

Faith's Recommendation:

The Incarnate Christ and His Critics

Connect with Joshua: jjohnson@shiftingculturepodcast.com

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Transcript

Faith Womack: 0:31

It's the story of God redeeming his people for His glory. So every single passage, every single chapter, every single verse, in some way, calls us to heart of worship, to living off of that.

Joshua Johnson: 0:54

You Josh, hello and welcome to the shift in culture podcast in which we have conversations about the culture we create and the impact we can make. We long to see the body of Christ look like Jesus. I'm your host. Joshua Johnson, when so many of us were handed a way of reading the Bible that was thin, fear based or even weaponized. It's no wonder scripture can feel confusing or as faith Womack is bold enough to name it boring. But it doesn't have to stay that way. In this episode, Faith invites us to rediscover the Bible as a living, compelling story of God's redemption, not a rule book to master, not a self help manual to cherry pick, but a narrative that reveals who God is and how he draws near to his people. We talk about mishandled Scripture, the lenses we unknowingly bring to the text, and how context, genre and the big story of God can transform our reading from shallow to deeply life giving. So if you've ever felt stuck or confused, disillusioned or numb when opening the Bible. This conversation is a warm, clear, hopeful guide back to the wonder of the Bible. Here is my conversation with faith. Womack, faith, welcome to shifting culture. Excited to have you on. Thanks for joining me. Yeah, thanks for having me. We're gonna dive deep in the Bible, your new book, no more boring Bible study. We're going to talk about, actually, how to engage the Bible in ways that are not boring. It is going to be a good conversation. You start your book out of a story of basically how scripture is mishandled in your own home. Take me into that season for you. How did that way of viewing scripture, like shape, the way that you viewed yourself and God and your family and your role in the world.

Unknown: 2:39

Yeah, I grew up in a home that my parents kind of just threw us into church. They weren't regular churchgoers before they had kids, and so it was a lot of like, oh, well, we as good people, ought to do this. We ought to look like that, and just kind of following cultural Christianity in a lot of ways, not really having conviction for why we weren't watching Harry Potter, but just knowing that that's what Christians ought not to do. You know, that was the big debate when I was growing up. And so the handling, or rather the mishandling of Scripture, was rampant in my household, and actually used for hate to say it, it's a strong word, but for abuse in my household. And so I grew up in this context, but was really concerned for truth and concerned for, like, what does truth actually mean for my life? Oddly enough, like, I got this really unique name of faith. I'm like, a spur of the moment moment in the hospital between my parents. They're like, we need to have faith that the Lord will provide, like, financially for our family. So let's just name her faith. And you know, my sisters have cool names like Chloe and Olivia, but I feel like even things like that, where the Lord just has always had his hand over my life, and I've felt convicted for things maybe a little bit stronger. And so early on in life, I remember wrestling with Scripture and going, Why does why does it just not make sense for me, and why do people go this direction with it and not this direction? Or how do we know that this is truly what Scripture says? And so I really remember, even though I was growing up in the church and I went to Vacation Bible School, and I, like, had checked all the boxes, just feeling really lost, like in my own personal Bible studies. And like, mind you, I feel like most sixth graders aren't doing a Bible study In the mornings in the evenings, but that was me, you know, really wanting to seek the Lord and seek truth. And it took me years. Actually. It wasn't until I pursued, like, a formal education in college to really get the training and basics of hermeneutics, how do we read, interpret and eventually apply scripture to our lives? And so I think the church, for so many decades, like we've focused on getting it translated in all the different languages. We focused on good translations, you know, good resources like study Bibles. And now it's time that we start to educate the capital C church in the basics of hermeneutics. How are we handling it? Because, you know, while we do believe in the perspicuity of Scripture, what is necessary for salvation is clear in Scripture there is like, you don't just automatically get downloaded information around the exile, right? You don't automatically get downloaded like, who wrote this letter, when and why, right? And so even at a really early age, I fell for abuse. I fell for mishandling of Scripture, and even fell for the lie that it's really tough to truly understand Scripture because I wasn't equipped with just those basic tools. And after going through, you know, undergrad and eventually seminary, I just the big thing. I remember this was before I married my husband, but he was in the classes with me in my undergrad. And I was like, standing outside of one of our lecture halls, and I was like, all Christians need to know this stuff, like all Christians. And he was just kind of like, yeah, yeah, totally. Hermeneux is great, you know. But I was like, no, actually, all Christians need this and speak. From my own past of abuse, and so that's what has really like set me on this path of this being my passion, kind of like little nerdy niche of sorts.

Joshua Johnson: 5:41

I mean, you, you talk about a moment of like opening a letter and, yeah, in it saying you're cursed, and using scripture to say that you're cursed, you then had some clarity in that moment. It moved from from fear into some some clarity. Oh, this is mishandling of Scripture. This isn't what Scripture actually says. It's twisted. Where do you think that discernment came in? And how did that clarity of seeing the twisting of Scripture move you into a place of wanting to really know what the scripture says.

Unknown: 6:16

Yeah, so it was Exodus 20. I believe the blessing, if you honor your mother and father, you'll live long and happy in the land that I've given you, which is a clear blessing in Scripture. And my father had used that to say, basically the boundaries I had set with him, because he was being pretty abusive, and I started to kind of catch up on it, distance myself. He said, Well, you're not honoring me by not letting me reach out to you and stalk you in all the things. And so therefore you're cursed to die young. And it took me all but two seconds to just look it up in Scripture and see that it's a blessing, it's not a curse. And that was a light bulb moment for me. If someone's willing to take a blessing in Scripture and turn it into a curse. And they're not really treating it as truth. They're treating it as something to be manipulated. And so I would really say it's the checking, like going back and looking, you know, there's so many Bible verses we use out of context. In the Christian circles where two or three are gathered, we use that out of context. We use philomene's 413, out of context. You know, Judge not. We use that out of context. There's so many Bible verses that we use out of context, and all you have to do is just go, context, and all you have to do is just go look at it in the Bible. Go wait, where is that Bible verse found? And is that really what's going on there? The answer, oftentimes, sadly enough, is that's not what's going on in that passage. It might be talking about something completely different. And the beauty about context is, when you look at a Bible passage in context, it's always going to take the Bible study of sorts deeper. It's always going to take your knowledge of the word deeper. It's going to take it to the heart. When we take stuff out of context, we'd make it like this shallow understanding, but it's so much richer than those shallow understandings. If we

Joshua Johnson: 7:44

grew grew up in the church, we get a hermeneutic given to us like we're just formed by that. And if we don't actually sit and actually know how to start to read the Bible, see what the context is, then we're just going to live with what we are given. And for one thing, I mean, you're talking about, you know, no more boring Bible study. That means you're reading the Bible. And today, in today's age, most people don't want to read. They don't actually want to look it up for themselves. They want to be given it to them. They want to go to your YouTube page and say, What does faith say about this? So I could figure this out. How did you start to help people say that actually reading scripture, and reading is good for you.

Unknown: 8:35

Ephesians talks about how scripture is our sword, our sword for battle. And I love that, because it really shows me why the enemy does so much mental work in our brains to discourage us from picking up our Bibles, because it is our sword for battle against him. Think of all the movie scenes where the enemy knocks the sword out of the good guy's hands, right? Or, you know, even Luke, I am your father, moments where we're like, taken off guard, and we're like, I can't fight right? Like we take those lies and we run with them, and we let our Bible sit on our nightstand dusty while it is literal truth. If we believe it's true, we'll treat it like it is, and we'll read it. And so I think it's simply just that first step of being aware of the fact that I'm avoiding it that makes that gives me the opportunity to say, Wait, why am I avoiding it? Do I really believe it's true? And that's how my book starts off with, with, if we believe it's true, we'll treat it as truth. We won't misuse it. We'll actually read it. We'll wrestle with what's a faithful reading of it, etc. And so we first have to ask ourselves, do we believe it's true, or do we just believe it's something we ought to read? You know, check that box. Kind of feel like you can measure up better before God, and then move on with your day. Like, what is it actually? Is it something that just needs to be boiled down and explained to us? Or do we truly believe that we have the Holy Spirit? I mean, we we are the one of the most equipped generations, more than ever before, with the most resources, with the most education, with the most information at like a fingertips reach to be able to understand the Bible. And I think about the generations before me. It's not long before me that we were Catholic. I'm actually first generation protest, and then Jewish before that. So, like it is, I do not take it lightly. My ability to be able to go online at logos or Atla, you know, all these resources that they have for pastors and Bible studyers And do a simple word study without being a Greek or Hebrew scholar. You know, I took my basic classes, but, you know, not that much, and be able to do a rich word. Study up for free online, right? Like, we are more equipped than any generation before. And if we really believe it's true, I think we'll utilize what we've been given. In fact, if I think, if people are listening to this podcast and they're interested on having a greater conviction and passion in their Bible studies, like, clearly they're called then, because that's a God given desire, that's not an earthly desire to want to enjoy Bible study more. That's like, that's like, I am born again in Christ. That is a desire, clearly given from God, right? And so I believe that's a desire that he places in our heart, that he wants to fulfill, that he's more than ready to fulfill, if only we will stop believing the lies. That's only for the Greek and Hebrew scholars or the super trained pastors, and that it's something that we can actually enjoy every day.

Joshua Johnson: 11:09

I think one of the things is you said in the previous answer, you're talking about context, and the importance of context of when we're reading the Bible. Take me into the story of the Bible, then help us get a big picture so that we don't just cherry pick our verses and say, Hey, this is great verse. I'm going to hold on to that, but we actually know what the story of God is in our lives. What's the big picture? STORY OF GOD?

Unknown: 11:35

Yeah, this Bible is a story of God redeeming his people for His glory. And I gotta be honest, I did not make that up. I got that from somewhere, but I cannot seem to find it anywhere. The Bible is a story of God redeeming his people for His glory. It is the story of God's redemption period. End of story. It's not the story of us, as much as we would love it to be about us and us be the main character. We often read it that way. It is a story of God redeeming his people for His glory. So anytime you're in the Bible, it's always unpacking God's work, unpacking God's redemption in some sort of way, Old Testament, looking forward and pointing to our need for Christ through the roles of Prophet, Priest and King. Jesus is the perfect Prophet, Priest and King. So it's constantly looking and showing us our need for our Savior. Then the New Testament is unpacking the person and work of Christ. So what does the cross mean for our salvation or our soteriology? What does the cross mean for how we worship? What is baptism? All those things, right? So Old Testament pointing towards our need for Christ, New Testament unpacking what that means for worship and living. And we see that through different kind of like, quote, unquote chapters in this big meta narrative of the Bible of creation, fall, redemption and consummation. Now, I know so often we think of consummation as something on the wedding night, but consummation, in legal terms, is the fulfillment of a contract. So we're moving from creation then the fall which ruined it all. My son once said Fall is what messed everything up. And I thought that was so good, like in his simple, little four year old mind. But we have creation, then we have fall, then we have redemption on the cross, and we're all looking forward to consummation. And so no matter where you are in the Bible, it's really nice to, like, kind of keep these benchmarks in your brain of, okay, this is the ultimate so it's looking forward to Christ, and this is after the fall. So we're seeing the consequences of the fall, but this is all part of the story of God redeeming his people for His glory. And so I get to look and see what is this revealing about God? What is this revealing about his redemption? And having those little benchmarks, those little things that are super easy to memorize in your brain, no matter where you are, no matter how confusing your Habakkuk or judges or numbers, you can always have these benchmarks to kind of move off of and quickly get into deep exegesis without being super, super lost.

Joshua Johnson: 13:40

You just had a good question there in the middle of your answer was, what does this reveal about God? Instead of, what does this reveal about where I should go to college? Or what does this reveal about my you know, where my next $500 is going to come from, like? So how do we ask that question? So take me into Bible study and saying, if, if this is a story of God, and we want to ask that question, what does this reveal about God? What is something that we could start to do as we're looking at scripture, to ask that question. And how does that reframe everything? If we're not just asking about how he could give me something, but what does it reveal about God?

Unknown: 14:24

Yeah, the easiest way to put this is kind of sadly explaining what it's not so it's not going into scripture, going, Okay, God, what man should I marry? What house should I buy? What, you know, degree should I get? All those kind of big life questions that we often finally turn to Scripture. We're like, Okay, I need the clouds apart. You know, I'm in my book, I use a random example from Hosea and a bear verse. And, you know, a college student going, should I go to Texas A and M or Baylor? And they open up and they see a Bible verse that happens to mention a bear, and they could take that as they should go to Baylor. Or, if you read the Bible verse, it's actually negative about the bear. And so maybe they could take it as they shouldn't go to Baylor. And the problem with that kind of reading in yourself into the text, reading your problems into the text, is, one, you're not looking at context, but then two is, it's doing ice Jesus, which is, I know, a little bit of intimidating word, but it's really simple. It's just looking for yourself in the text. You text. You aren't in the text there. It's actually unpacking God's heart for redemption over in his people. And so we, we boil scripture down to be so thin and about about ourselves, we're very self centered in our hermeneutic and it actually super cheapens the Bible. You know, I when I talk about context, when I talk about, you know, looking. What God is revealing about himself in Scripture. I think a lot of times it can come off as, like, being politically correct, or like, you just need to try harder. You're not doing enough, you're not reading it right. Like, some kind of, like, academic I'm better than you kind of thing. But really, what it is is we're we're ripping from Scripture the richness that is there, and we're twisting it. You know, if I wrote a love letter to my husband and he went and read it to like my granddaughter. 20 years from now, I'd be really bummed out, because I'm like, Honey, that was for you. That was, that was in this kind of context of my marriage to you, my love for you in this era of our lives with our specific hardships, our specific doubts, our specific whatever, and you're taking it out of the context and using it for somebody else, and we do that so often with God's word, and it cheapens it. We miss so much of their life changing richness that does eventually then change what college we go to, what man we wear, what house we buy, all those big things. But it all starts first with being God centered, looking at what it reveals about God and his hand in his people, his hand in redemption, his guidance, his love. One thing that the Bible often is working off of, or referencing or alluding to is Exodus, 34 verses six and seven, which is really important Bible verse where God basically says who he is. He defines himself. It's one of the unique passes of scripture where God is defining himself. You know, a god merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding stuff, fast love and mercy. And so many times we see that alluded to throughout the rest of the Old Testament, even into the New Testament, and those words are echoed throughout the Psalms over and over again and all those good things. And I think that is what the rest of Scripture. When we talk about scripture, quoting scripture and Scripture speaking to each other, like the intertextuality, the connectedness of Scripture, it's that it's constantly marinating on those rich truths of who God is, and having that effect everything in biblical history and worship, and so we, too should do that, and it actually makes our Bible study so much deeper, taking ourselves out of the picture and just responding in worship.

Joshua Johnson: 17:20

I think that's good. I mean, you just talked about one lens that we use to read the Bibles. Was, what does it say about me? It's all about me, which it's not so. What are some other lenses that maybe typical people in Western Christianity start to use that are maybe unhelpful, or we don't even realize that we're using them, that maybe the Bible wasn't written this way, and to this type of people,

Unknown: 17:45

another really easy one is that we just read it, expecting from the text what We how we view text today. So, you know, we think of texts today. Think of like Facebook posts or articles online or newspaper articles, or even like blog posts or comments or tweets like think about all like how we view literature today and the ways that we consume it. We have very high standards for exactness and numbers. We have very high standards for frequency and for how how you handle or quote somebody. And scripture, you know, is ancient, and there's different expectations which reveal theological uses. And so, you know, skeptics of the Bible will often talk about contradictions in Scripture. You know, why does First Chronicles say that it was 38 meters and or cubits. And, you know, Samuel says it's 18 cubits, or whatever it is, you know, like we have to remember that scriptures, what Scriptures, purpose and use was, what was this genre for even historical narratives that unpack a historical account of a battle or whatever had for their main purpose in the ancient least, they were theological in nature. They were a theological history. This is the god of these people, and this is how he conquers over the other gods. And this is how that reveals about our identity as a people, not as individuals. And then, of course, that impacts, you know, a lot of it is written during the exile, right after the exile. That impacts the way that we face the trials of exile. You know, keeping in mind all those things and having those affect our reading only takes our Bible study so much deeper. But when we come into the text and we're reading modern things like, oh, this genealogy doesn't matter. It's just like whatever it points to Christ and moving on, we miss the theological richness. When we go to the text and we're like, hey, this word seems really big, let me skim over it, because it doesn't matter. That's because today, we don't view words with as much power. We throw them around like they're cheap, right? We, we, we don't even value texts like they did in the first century with Paul's letters, those were expensive. Those were costly. Those took a ton of time. They had to be delivered by hand, by foot, you know, copied by hand, like those letters. There's nothing that Paul or any of the Epistles like, there's nothing of substance there that's just thrown in. Everything was costly, everything was thought out, everything was intentional. And that affects how we read it. We don't just cut out parts that we don't like. We don't just say maybe it could be taken either way. It doesn't matter, you know, like we wrestle with that, we read that we so anyway, I'm kind of ranting at this point, but our modern views of text really can sometimes stunt the ways that we see richness in the passages.

Joshua Johnson: 20:20

So besides, like looking at the text through a modern lens of how we view text today, what are other things that are like unhelpful like. Who are the people that that this was written to compared to, say, Western, modern people today? What would we miss if we're not reading it through like, maybe a collectivist lens, and we're reading it through an individualistic lens? Who are the people that were receiving these texts and it was written to you, yeah,

Unknown: 20:56

oftentimes it is for God's people. Oftentimes. I mean, I keep mentioning the exile for some reason in this podcast, but there's, like, you know, there's a lot of exilic passages in the Bible, and let's be real, most Christians don't even know what the exile is, right? Like, most Christians were never even taught that, you know? So we need to ask those questions, and you can even do it with a simple Google search and figure out, okay, when was this book written? Was it written during the exile or after the exile? That's the difference between Kings and Chronicles. They're the same history just told before and after the exile. This is why we're going into exile, and this is why we're coming out of exile, and we should still be faithful to God. You know, that impacts the way that you read, the different emphases that they have, because one will kind of overlook David and Bathsheba sin and then other, the other one will kind of really highlight it. This is why we're going in textile guys, you know. So who is it written for? So when we keep in mind the cultural moment, like who wrote it to whom and why, as much as that sounds like boring academic struggles, it so enhances our reading. Okay, easy one, John four. John four. We all know woman at the well, many of us are picturing the chosen scene right now as we talk about it, right? Jesus meeting the Samaritan woman. I think most of us know that like Samaritans and Jews, they didn't like each other, especially Jews didn't like the Samaritans. You know, they had very derogatory ways of referring to them. They would go out of their way to not interact with them. But many of us miss the fact that this is purposely, I would argue, purposely. Right after Jesus meets with Nicodemus, Nicodemus is a good Jew. Nicodemus gets the whole John 316, presented to him, and he doesn't respond in faith. He walks away confused in the dark of night. But then Jesus must go meet with a Samaritan woman, and where does he meet her? At Jacob's well. You know, Abraham, Jacob Moses. They all met their wives at Wells, but here, Jesus must meet a woman, and he presents her so much better than just another husband and a sixth husband or whatever it is. No he presents her the living water, a life giving water that meets the thirst of her souls and friends. You know, he was doing everything a not good Jew would do, like one talking to a dirty Samaritan. Two, a man at talking to a woman at a well in the middle of the day, so she's a rejected woman, like, there's he's going to samarita like talking to a Samaritan woman on purpose, like there's so many like, no, no's here. But that as the original Jewish audience, we should see that and go, Wait, wow. Jesus offers us so much more. And we make those connections to Jacob's, well, we make those connections to Jesus, kind of expanding what we thought was like our pious betterness, that we're so much better. We're Jews full blood, right? That kind of stuff makes those passages not just another scene in a great TV show, but something that's life changing. Of Lord, I resonate with that I have sought all my life for things that will not satisfy my soul, Lord and you alone will do that. And you call me out in the middle of the day, in the middle of my brokenness, and you offer me that living water, Lord, may I respond in that same way. So context, cultural context, it really doesn't take that much work. We just have to be invited into it and trust that we can do it.

Joshua Johnson: 24:37

Do you remember a time in your life where you've you read Scripture and certain passage of scripture and you were like, hey, this doesn't really resonate, or I don't really get what's going on. And then you actually went into some of the context and what was actually happening, and it reframed everything for you,

Unknown: 24:58

absolutely Ruth in particular. You know, I'm a woman, and Ruth is one of those books. Congratulations. It's wonderful. But, you know, we get our certain books. We get like, Esther, we get Ruth, we get proverbs 31 we just kind of like, do those over and over and over again, right? And, you know, once you kind of do it, once you're like, I got it mastered in my book, we talked about this. That's the familiarity poison. You kind of think, like, I've done it. I did the VBS week on it. I've taught it to the youth group, like, I know this passage of Scripture, I've kind of got it down. And when I came back around to it, it was actually this last year or two, you know, sitting there at the beginning of the book of Ruth, and you've got Abimelech leaving God's land, which is the house of bread. Literally, he leaves a house of bread for bread, he leaves for food the house of bread. There's irony there. And this book that I thought was all about Ruth just being a good daughter in law, I really would have told you that's like the main core heart of that book. This book doesn't even start with Ruth. This book starts with an unfaithful man leaving God's people and leaving God's house for bread, this irony of doubt, this irony of him not trusting God for His provision. And then it still doesn't even start with Ruth. It starts with Naomi. And Naomi is the main character, and she's the one doing all the moving and the doing, and she's returning back to God and to his people and going back home. And Ruth comes along with her. But it, you know, it's. All about Naomi, and I'm thinking in particular in chapter one, and she declares that she is empty. And over and over again, this word is repeated throughout the book. Shub of returning, going back. And she goes back right before harvest and harvest bread to the house of bread. And Ruth keeps coming back at the end of each chapter with more and more bread in her arms, returning back Shub, going back to God, going back to his people, placing her faith in God. And that when we get to the end of the book, once again, you get another genealogy, but this time it's a genealogy of life, of birth, and it points to Christ. And Naomi is no longer empty and bitter, but now she's holding a grandson the lineage of Christ, who, then later in John six, stands up and says, I am the bread of life. You see, it just takes our understanding of a biblical passage so much deeper when we rid ourselves of that. You know, it strokes our ego to be like I'm so familiar with Ruth. I know Ruth. You know, I did VBS. I taught that to the youth group. You know, when we look at it with new, fresh eyes, we see Jesus. We see so much more. We see all these literary elements, this, this thematic play on bread, and how God truly satisfies our thirstings and and to go to him alone and place our faith in Him alone. And then when Jesus stands up and says and declares that he is the bread of life, I think any good a Jew would have made that connection, would know what's going on here. And we too ought to, we too ought to and live off of that, you know, I don't want to, there to be ever a day that I eat bread, and I don't think about how Jesus truly satisfies the hunger of my soul, you know. So yes, and the same thing could be said for Jonah. The same thing could be said for so many of those kind of classic passages. We say we know, but we miss a lot of depth.

Joshua Johnson: 27:58

And that, I think, begs the question for us that when we read the Bible, sometimes we don't realize what we're reading. And I think genre is important in the midst of reading the Bible. So take me through some of like the genres that are happening in the Bible that can we don't know how to read each one of them. So what are the genres of the Bible?

Unknown: 28:23

Yeah, in my book, we work through some of the most popular ones. I'm going to be so for real, though, guys, our first go to when in Christian circles, when we talk about the genres of the Bible is to group them. Okay, so this book is historical narrative, this book is poetry. This book is that. And the more you study it, the more you see that those lines are blurred. It's you'll be in a historical narrative book, and you're like reading a history. And then all of a sudden, Moses breaks out in song, and it's a rich, poetic song with lots of beautiful theology, but it ought not be read the same way, right? It's not treated the same way through the rest of Scripture. And so genre isn't easy, cut and dry lines, but through my book, we work through some of the most popular ones, like Wisdom literature. We look at poetry, we look at historical narratives, we look at the epistles, we look at the Gospels. Those are such like, I think a lot of us are like, Okay, I know how to read a gospel. I know how to read a history. Like, those are pretty straightforward, but if we don't actually slow down and evaluate how we make assumptions about those texts, we won't realize how much we kind of misread them or assume we know stuff when like, for example, the Gospels, most of us assume that they're trying to convince us to believe, but the gospels were written to pre existing believers to encourage them in their faith, and they were all written to kind of different audiences, like Matthew's writing to specifically a Jewish audience, Mark's Writing to those who are being persecuted and suffering. And so his picture of Jesus is a little bit more suffering and loner, um, you know, like they all have their different angles or different specialties, and that actually takes our understanding of the text so much deeper. We get to see their themes. We get to see their emphases. That's why Matthew starts off with the genealogy, because he's writing to Jews. And he's like, I really want you to see that Jesus is the Promised Messiah. Like this is coming from the bloodline, like you bloodline. Like that is so incredibly rich. So when we study these genres, what we see is they're not actually kind of how we think of them in our modern day genres. And so the way that I outline it in my book is it's not just a history textbook, it's not just the song, it's not just a movie, it's not just a poem, it's not just a clue book. They're so much more than what we expect of them. They're so much deeper and so much more life changing. And so though it might seem a little bit negative to have every single chapter, you know, not just a history book, not just a rule book, not just a letter, I do that on purpose to show us that there's so much more in them than maybe what we expect originally.

Joshua Johnson: 30:33

So as we're looking at the different genres, knowing, hey, there's even in a historical narrative, we're going to run up against poetry, we're going to run up against some, some other things. And then we could figure out, okay, this is what they're trying to say. This is what, how it reveals God to us. How then do we as just, not just leave it at a place of like, Hey, we're reading the Bible, we understand it, but how do we then start to apply it to our lives faithfully, and not just understand the Bible, but actually live what it's trying to say without it being like, Miss applied.

Unknown: 31:14

Yeah, this is one of the top questions I get from people. We're so ready for application, and that is a good, godly desire for it to affect our lives, absolutely. But I would argue in this in the most gentle way. I don't want to make anyone mad listening in, but if we are struggling to apply it to our lives, that's because we're struggling to truly understand it. Because any kind of biblical passage in context, it does absolutely change our lives and convict us if we're properly understanding it. So if you're somebody reading the Bible and you're like, I just want to know what college I check out. I just want to know go back to what does it actually say, right? Because I know how frustrating it is, but we're so quick to jump to application that should be a natural thing. Let me just give you a general rule of thumb. Application is always worship. So if your application isn't leading you to some kind of living out, living out, a worshipful response to Jesus, as he is here in Matthew seven, or whatever, or worshipful response to this is how we worship in response to God's, you know, redemption or whatever. If it's not leading to you to some kind of worshipful living, you're probably missing what's going on here, because, again, it's the story of God redeeming his people for His glory. So every single passage, every single chapter, every single verse, in some way, calls us to heart of worship, to living off of that. And of course, that transforms the way that you view your college decisions, your marriage decisions, your house blindness, and all of those things, but it's with God at the center. So if you're struggling with application, really, what you're probably struggling with is understanding. And you get to you are invited on this journey of digging a little bit deeper. And it sounds like work, it sounds boring, it sounds like it's this academic thing, and we're putting these burdens on you. But really what it is is so life giving. It's actually not that hard, and it actually makes Scripture come alive. And I think the reason why, I mean, obviously my book is titled number one Bible study. Obviously, Scripture is not boring, but we kind of secretly believe it's boring because we don't understand it. And the moment we start understanding it is when it comes alive to us, and it changes our life, and we enjoy and we grow, get on fire for the word. So we first have to start with how. How are we misunderstanding it? How can we understand it, and then scripture just becomes so much more interesting and life giving.

Joshua Johnson: 33:23

So when you're saying that all of our application leads us into worship and worshipful living, does that mean that we just sit around and sing worship songs and don't do anything in our life? What does worshipful living look like for people?

Unknown: 33:37

Yeah, I think so often we think of, yeah, a very narrow sense of worship. But I believe we can worship by faithfully doing the dishes. I believe we can worship by discipling our kids, by speaking truth against lies and culture. I believe we can worship through, you know, filming a podcast or drinking water to take care of our bodies, like all of our life ought to be worship in every whether you're driving right now or cooking right now, whatever, like all of our life ought to be worship and informed by the God of Scripture, who has redeemed us. So no even micro thing, not even going to the restroom, should not be defined absolutely transformed by the fact that I am a redeemed child of God Almighty, who not only created the world but gave me a hope of heaven, who not only created the scenarios where I have my troubles, where I have my doubts, where I have my mountains to climb, and all those things, but he is the God who has redeemed me and promised me this redemption, and who has called me and loves me and has sought me that changes the way We do all things because we are then on purpose. We are called. We have clarity of who we are and whose we are, but you don't really know who you are and what decisions you should make off of those things, if you don't know whose you are and more about the God you belong to, that does transform all of our living but I think we get so so caught up in the specifics that we miss the big picture that does change the specifics.

Joshua Johnson: 36:01

Couple days ago, we were reading acts 237, to 47 which the early church is what the early church is doing. And like one of the things that really stood out to me was that in verse 43 they said a deep sense of awe came over them, and the apostles perform many miraculous times and wonders. And I think a lot of times when I think of Bible study, I don't think of awe, and I don't think of wonder. I think of like, Hey, I'm looking at some some text, how, when we are maybe familiar with the Bible, or maybe, like we've gone through this, it's just a text, how do we recover some of this awe and this wonder that even the early church was experiencing?

Unknown: 36:50

Yeah, oh, I love that passage. Okay, so I love that you went there first of all, because absolutely so good. So, okay, discovering the awe really comes again back to do we understand what's happening here, and if it sounds dry, if it sounds boring, if we're not having that worshipful wow moment with Scripture, we have to ask ourselves, what are we missing? Because Scripture tells us it is alive and active. Scripture tells it that's Hebrews four second Timothy tells us it is profitable for. Teaching, rebuking, correcting all things for training in righteousness. It is scripture is something that is constantly working on us, even when we don't feel it. And so if we are going to allow ourselves to come numb to it, let our eyes glaze over, treat it like it's not absolutely life changing, we are forgetting what it is. We are forgetting how powerful and what a gift it is. And so I think we regain that all in that heart of worship, when we remind ourselves that it is truth itself. You know, every single morning, and I mean, I create content around this, I'm like, go read your Bibles. Guys, like, that's who I am online, right? And yet, every single morning, the enemy hits me with those lies. If you have something better to do. You could be doing this. You could be doing that. You probably ought to. Oh, what about that email? Oh, what about that laundry in the dryer, etc, right? Like every single morning and every single morning, my solution to those lies that sound really, really convincing is, but I believe this alone is truth. Yes, the laundry will eventually get folded, but this is truth, and this affects the way that I fold the laundry. You know, this affects every part of my life, and I am living not worshipful. I'm living not informed by truth itself when I'm gonna live unto myself and what I think I need to get done on my to do list today. So we just have to remind ourselves what it is and what Scripture says about itself can be really convicting.

Joshua Johnson: 38:35

I think in our spiritual life, we always hit some sort of a wall in our spiritual life. We hit a wall with reading the Bible. We hit a wall with like seeing God around us, like we don't feel his presence anymore, like we're like we're it feels empty, but there is actually depth in there that we don't actually see when we hit the wall, that there's some beautiful thing to get us through it. So in those times, and I think there's a lot of people, I think this is why, to be honest, this is why people call it a midlife crisis. Because I think there is a crisis in midlife where there's a spiritual crisis, where what served us in the past is not serving us in the future, and there's a big wrestling with moving into something new. And so I think when we're reading scripture, I want to know like, how do we let things fall away that served us in the past, and see scripture then with fresh eyes and new eyes, to know that there may be something new that God wants to do with us, because scripture is alive and active that will serve us into the future. I see a lot of people, if they if they stay in their youthful zeal, like what brought them to Christ in the first place, they are like, Man, this isn't serving they're not growing in maturity and moving forward. How do we shift? How do we move in those life transitions, into new things? In Scripture, you know, there's

Unknown: 40:06

this word that I've been thinking about all week. It's a Hebrew word. It's used in Nehemiah two, when Nehemiah is inspecting the wall. It's the Hebrew word for inspecting. But what's really interesting about it, I'm going to botch this with sabar. It's he's inspecting with hope expectant trust. He's reevaluating the wall in the scope of I'm called to rebuild this and we see it used a couple other times. I think it's like total of nine times in the Old Testament. But every single time it's, it's a inspection with hope and trust. So I think we need to revisit passages of Scripture, or revisit God and His Word with this expectant hope and trust that this really will change my life, if I just trust God to meet me here, and if I just trust God truly does care, that God truly does meet me here in His Word, while the enemy does lie, and it's so heavy and it's so convicting that it's like we could do better things. We could just trust somebody else to execute it for us. We could just trust somebody else and what they say about God and what they say about the word it is an invitation that God has intimately called us on, each individually, and is calling you on if you're listening to this, because he wants you, not your understanding through somebody else, through your pastor, through a book or a devotional. He wants your heart, your passions, and he is ready and waiting and would love to pour into you this fire and passion for the Word of God, if you'll just trust Him to do that, and if you'll just trust his word to be sufficient, right? I think so often we fall for the lies of like, well, I don't know, does it? Is it really going to help anything? Is it really gonna change anything? It's like, well, what else are you gonna do? Turn to alcohol. You gonna turn to the world. You're gonna turn to the news. Really gonna turn to fellow broken sinners. Are you gonna rest your faith in Jesus Christ, which is the whole point of salvation anyway, right? Do we truly believe this is true? Do we truly believe that God is our only hope in life and death? Do we truly believe he is the more than just our lifeline. He is our everything. I think of the Shema in Deuteronomy, six to love, the word our God, with all our heart, with all our soul, with all our everything. Do we truly choose that over even our doubts, our depression, our loss, our feeling like a boat tossed in the wind and the sea? He's Do we truly believe that he will readily stand up and calm that storm, because he is really the one that brings peace, that was the first word of Jesus' mouth, resurrected Savior, when he appears before the disciples, He declares, I reign a peace. Do we truly believe that he is ready, waiting, willing, at any given moment to declare peace of our lives and to fill us up with that life giving water. I love the richness of Scripture and how it speaks through time and space of no matter what age, no matter what generation, no matter what season of life, we were all seeking for exactly that, and that can only be found in Christ.

Joshua Johnson: 42:51

You went into like, are we loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength at the Shema, right? And then you said, Okay, he's going to then fill us with living water, he's going to fill us with peace. I find it when we're getting to this place of Bible study, or we're trying to love God with all of our strength, if we don't receive the love of God for us, it's hard for me to give all of that love back to God because I haven't received it. So usually, when I I'm trying to love God without my strength, if I'm doing it out of my own it's not all of me. It's not enough. It's there because I haven't postured myself to receive the love of God. And if I'm reading the Bible as it revealing God to me, one of the things that he wants to do is he wants to say, You're my beloved child, and I want to fill you with my love I have. I mean, I've just, in my life, gone through, you know, I've been a missionary overseas in the Middle East. I've led a missions organization. We like to love the world. We like to love God. And I see so many missionaries and so many people try to love out of their own strength, and they forget to receive the love of God. So in our Bible, how do we not make it just a striving to please God, but actually then start to receive what God has for us in it. How do we move from from striving to surrender? I mean, you

Unknown: 44:23

just, I think Scripture at no point says, Yep, and this is where you measure up, and this is where you do more and you be more, and that's when you earn your salvation, and that's when God finally chooses to love you. I think from the very beginning, God's love is on display again, the story of God redeeming his people for His glory. He has been redeeming you day one, right? Like he his heart is for your redemption his whole incarnation. You know, as we're filming, we're warming up towards Christmas, and that's so exciting to study God's love that literally sent him to humble himself to the form of a baby born in a barn surrounded by poop and animals and smells and all those things, like God is Love is one that has already been declared. Do we believe it? Do we trust it? Do we rest in it? Are we still stupidly striving? Are we still stupidly relying on ourselves? Because what that is that's striving, that like relying on ourselves to muster up and be more and do more, is essentially self worship. That's us on the throne. That's, that's, uh, you know, offering sacrifices to ourselves, right? And do we truly like, have we come to the ends of ourself enough to be like, Lord, I desperately need you, and I bring nothing, absolutely nothing, to the table. But I believe, as scripture has declared about you, that you are more than enough for me and my needs and my emptiness, my nothingness, I say all the time. I probably say it too many times, but God is big enough, is enough to work in, through and despite us. And I think we focus a lot on God working in us. I think we focus a lot on like, God's gonna work through me, especially if you're in ministry. My husband's a pastor. You know, it's so easy to get burned out. And even just ministry here in the States. We haven't done full time ministry work, but man, I can imagine overseas as well. So in through but we forget that God is constantly working despite us as well. I think of David. I think of even like pagan like King Cyrus. I think of Pharaoh, like God can work despite us. So how much more when we are willingly on our knees saying, Lord, use me. Fill me up, send me out. I'm fully dependent on you, but we love to put ourselves on those thrones that we know better, that we know more, that we can do enough be more measure enough.

Joshua Johnson: 46:32

I want to know what discernment starts to look like. I've seen so many people use scripture either out of context or something, and the fruit isn't really there in their lives. How do we know what is true? We believe that the Bible is true. How does discernment start to work when we're reading the Bible and studying the Bible?

Unknown: 46:53

I'm assuming you're kind of leaning towards the gray areas, the things that are debated in church circles. Yeah, like, you know, it does come down to hermeneutics, the different stances on baptism, the mode of baptism, women and their roles in the home and the church, you know, all those big debates, sacraments, all the things come down to hermeneutics, how we're handling those passage of scripture. And I think so often we're in these culture wars of debating, but we haven't truly studied the. How the Other Side got to their conclusion, we haven't bothered to try and understand their hermeneutic and because of that, we're just speaking past each other. A lot of times it comes down to semantics. A lot of times it comes to misunderstandings or broad over generalizations. And I think that's really my passion, of why I care so much about educating and hermeneutics, because we can't ever get to the part of debates if we haven't first studied, and we need to debate less and study more. And so I think when if you're wrestling with discernment on those topics, you first have to start with prayer. You first have to evaluate your hermetic. You have to evaluate their hermetic and what might be wrong about it. But ultimately, we have to understand the core doctrines of the faith, like lowercase o orthodoxy versus these tertiary or secondary things and why there can be room for grace, but also where the line is drawn. Discernment doesn't begin without first wrestling and asking those hard questions. And so many of us want to get into comment wars and put our ring in the fight on, you know, that random post on social media or well, so and so says this about that passes. So and So says that. And none of us are actually going back to Scripture and just sitting in Scripture and God's truth, and it's so not worshipful, and it's so not really pursuing truth. It's pursuing party lines. And I think, like you alluded to Matthew seven with the fruit, Jesus tells us, like, that's when you know it's like false teachers is when they don't have fruit that matches, right? Like we have to look at the fruit of what is being spoken with, of what is being taught, and also be ready and willing to extend grace in the debates, because we understand why they're debated. But then, of course, on the other side of that is use discernment on where that oh, this is where the line is drawn. So lot going on there, this very nuanced thing, but hopefully I did sufficient answer there.

Joshua Johnson: 49:01

That's good. What do you think faith is your hope for your readers to pick up your book, no more pouring Bible study?

Unknown: 49:08

Yeah, I would feel like I failed if someone read my book and didn't walk away with a greater love and fire and passion for the Word of God. I mean, I know this sounds so like patting my back, but when I know I technically wrote it, I did write it. I did. It's not technical. I did, but it's so many different versions of me. You know, I wrote it over like, three years and through many different seasons of my life, of growth and things like that. So when I read it, it doesn't feel like it's from me. And so it has made me love scripture more and view scripture with higher regard and excitement and fueled my fire for the word. And so that's my prayer for readers. I think you can read a million books in your life, but if they don't make you love and seek the Lord more than like kind of low key, what's the point? Right? So my heart is for exactly that, that it won't just end with my book, but readers will feel invited on this lifelong adventure of studenthood. Of of you know, we don't master God's word, but rather, we're invited on this lifelong journey of feasting on God's word, and that's actually really life giving and exciting

Joshua Johnson: 50:11

and faith. I have a couple quick questions here at the end. I like to ask one, if you go back to your 21 year old self, what advice would you

Unknown: 50:18

give your identity is not tied up in what you do. It's great advice. Only I believe it.

Joshua Johnson: 50:28

It takes a lifetime to work that out, but it is true. It's very true that's not your your identity, it's not tied up in what you do. You're a lot more than that. Yeah, anything you've been reading or watching lately, you recommend.

Unknown: 50:41

Ooh, I have been, I've been enjoying it's a little bit heavy. It's a little bit meaty, but the incarnate Christ and His critics by komakowski and Bowman, and it's been really, really good and rich. It's thick, but like, if you want to wrestle with the deity and humanity of Christ, and yeah, again, his critics highly recommend,

Joshua Johnson: 51:03

well, no more boring Bible study is going to be available anywhere books are sold, so go and get that fall in love with the Bible study in Scripture so that you know that the Bible is alive. It could come and it could actually serve you well, that it could point you back to how it reveals God is there anywhere you'd like to point people to? How could they connect with you and what you're doing?

Unknown: 51:27

Yeah, across all social medias, I'm Bible nerd ministries. You could also just type in Bible nerd, and I'll come up my little tacky highlights and big smile, but I'd love to hear that you guys came from here and, you know, shifting culture podcast, and let me know that way we can touch base and can give you all a shout out, but I would love to see y'all on YouTube, Instagram, tick tock all the things perfect.

Joshua Johnson: 51:50

Well, faith. Thank you for this conversation. Thanks for leading through the Bible and the Bible so that we could actually not have any more boring Bible studies, but we could actually see the Bible as alive and active in our lives. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing. So thank you, faith. It was fantastic. Thanks for having me. You. You.