Ep. 385 J.R. Briggs - The Art of Asking Better Questions

In this episode, I sit down with J.R. Briggs, author of The Art of Asking Better Questions, to talk about why questions matter in a culture shaped by certainty, polarization, and the pressure to always have the right answer. We explore how questions shape our relationships, our faith, and the stories we tell ourselves, why Jesus so often chose questions over direct answers, and how the questions we ask can either wound or heal. We talk about curiosity, humility, power, and what it looks like to ask questions that lead to connection instead of control, and the conversation turns personal as J.R. puts me in the hot seat to reflect on desire, vocation, and what it means to slow down and really listen.

J.R. Briggs (DMin, Missio Seminary) is the founder of Kairos Partnerships, an organization committed to serving hungry leaders through coaching, consulting, and speaking. He serves on staff with the Ecclesia Network and Fresh Expressions, and as guest instructor for Friends University in the Masters of Spiritual Formation and Leadership program. His books include The Sacred Overlap, Fail, and Eldership and the Mission of God. He and his wife and two children live in the greater Philadelphia area.

J.R.'s Book:

The Art of Asking Better Questions

J.R.'s Recommendations:

King: A Life

The Accidental President

Connect with Joshua: jjohnson@shiftingculturepodcast.com

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Transcript

J.R. Briggs: 0:46

He asked Bartimaeus, what do you want me to do for you? Now I'm in the Philadelphia area, where snark is a spiritual gift in a lot of people's minds, and so I'll say that it'd be easy to say to someone here in Philadelphia, what do you think Jesus take a wild guess. The guy can't see. What do you think he wants? But on the surface, that might be the case, but on a much deeper level, it's a brilliant question, what do you want me to do for you? Of course, he knew what Bartimaeus wanted, but he needed Bartimaeus to name what Bartimaeus wanted.

Joshua Johnson: 1:28

You. Hello and welcome to the shifting culture podcast in which we have conversations about the culture we create and the impact we can make. We long to see the body of Christ look like Jesus. I'm your host. Joshua Johnson, today I'm joined by JR Briggs, author of the art of asking better questions. This conversation is about why questions matter, especially right now, because we live in a culture full of certainty, strong opinions, quick answers, and a lot of confidence that we already know what's right, what's wrong, and what everyone else should think. But the middle of all that, we've lost something. We've lost curiosity, we've lost patience, and we have lost the ability to stay present with people who see the world differently than we do. And JR has spent years thinking about how questions shape us, our relationships, our leadership, our faith, and the stories we tell ourselves. And in this conversation, we talk about the kinds of questions that open people up and the kinds that shut people down. We talk about the questions God asks, the questions Jesus asks, and the questions we keep asking ourselves sometimes without even realizing it. We also talk about polarization power and why trying to win with better answers hasn't made us more human, and at one point, JR turns the questions back on me. This is a thoughtful, grounded conversation about learning to slow down, listen better and ask questions that lead to connection instead of control. And I think you're really going to enjoy it. So join us. Here is my conversation with Jr. Briggs, Jr, welcome to shifting culture.

J.R. Briggs: 3:03

Thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to this conversation. Well, we're gonna

Joshua Johnson: 3:08

dive into the art of asking better questions. Why do you really believe that questions are important and powerful, and why should we ask questions?

J.R. Briggs: 3:18

I have benefited from this tremendously in my own life. I think we all have of people that we're around who take great care to ask thoughtful, engaging questions, and how honoring and affirming that is number one. Number two, how it opens up such new ideas and connection, and it's much more interesting. I just find, maybe on a selfish side, it's just more interesting to engage in conversations with people. But every close relationship that I have, and I would venture you and your listeners have is because there were some sort of exchange of questions and responses that happened, and that could be a spouse, it could be a close friend, even could be a new friend. And so it's one of the ways we exchange information, but also the way in which we connect and build trust. So I've seen that, and I've also seen our culture that deprioritizes and devalues questions for a lot of reasons, and I think it's been latent, and I think we need to wake it up. And I think the idea of a good asked question, it's latent, and that waking up needs to happen. And I think especially in the division and polarization that we're experiencing, I just think questions are about to have their moment, and I think it can be an immense gift in a time when our culture needs it.

Joshua Johnson: 4:34

Do you think that questions can be more transformative for us than having better answers? Are better questions more transformative than better answers?

J.R. Briggs: 4:44

Great question. I think we need both. But I think in the process, what we've thought is, if I just shout louder my answers at other people, that will change their mind. And let's see. How is that working for us in our culture right now? And so when there is a humility and a curiosity and a patience to want to lean in with other people, that's how I've seen things change, and I'd love to see it on the highest levels of our leaders, which isn't always modeled there right now. But when I've seen that in conversation, macro, micro conversations with people, I go, you know that's that's how things change, that's how we humanize each other. So I don't want to say questions are ultimate, and you should never give answers. In the book, I say there are limits to our questions, but I also think there are limits to our answers, and I think sometimes our longing for certainty and answers, it can be a form of control, and that's often what keeps us from asking questions. So we need both. I just don't want to overemphasize answers at the expense of questions. Questions. I want them both to be valued in their appropriate places.

Joshua Johnson: 5:49

There's a lot of people listening right now that their their worldview, the way that they see the world, is shaped through their spirituality and their faith, and what they see of who God is. Is God a question asker? And what kind of questions Does God ask

J.R. Briggs: 6:07

one of the things that's amazing and that continues to blow my mind about the character of God. Here is the All Knowing God of the universe, who chooses to ask a ton of questions in the Old Testament and and still ask questions today. But if we stop and reflect on the types of questions that God asked, I think we'll be amazed on what we see there. There are lots of questions that God asks throughout Scripture. I mean, I think of you know, he's talking to Hagar, you know, where have you come from? And where are you going? This runaway Egyptian slave girl? To Elijah, he says, What are you doing here? To Sarah, he says, Is anything too hard for the Lord? To Moses, what's in your hand? I mean, he just there's so many questions. Even the first question God asks to Adam and Eve, where are you? Is not an information question. He knows exactly where they are, but there is a relational desire to want to connect. And sometimes God asks questions though he knows the answer, but we need to know the answer. We need to acknowledge where we're at. In fact, just a little aside here, Joshua, what's interesting is questions are so powerful that the first question in Scripture was not asked by God or even by people. It was asked by Satan. Did God really say are you sure? So he uses question, the questions as a way of leading to the downfall of of humanity. And I think we need to understand just how powerful it is in these situations. But, but God asks so many questions as a way of getting attention as a way of challenging, confronting. And so if God, the One who knows everything, still finds it important to ask questions. I think we have permission to ask questions and ask him questions as well. That's what I love about the Psalms. It's full of questions rated our questions, asked of God.

Joshua Johnson: 7:59

So you mentioned briefly that question, where are you? Was a relational connection question that wanting to connect back to each other. What then is the purpose of questions? What are some of the different purposes of questions?

J.R. Briggs: 8:17

A lot of people would say that anytime a question is asked, it's something communicated in hope of a response. In talking with Heather Holloman, who teaches at Penn State, she said that questions have two functions. One is information, the other is connection. I think sometimes, if we only stay in the Information category, it can feel transactional, but connection, on the other hand, that's connection of new ideas could be new perspective. Could be connecting in terms of deepening trust with a friend or a family member, it could be opening up new possibilities that we haven't thought of before. And so I try to think about questions in those two categories, information and connection. Yeah. I mean, there's 27 different types of questions that we could go into, but I think the two primary areas is information and connection in terms of their purposes.

Joshua Johnson: 9:05

Can you categorize those 27 different types into those two or they're they're more broader categories that

J.R. Briggs: 9:11

they fall in. Yeah, there there are broader categories. But, I mean, there's all sorts of questions like you could ask. You know, obviously there's rhetorical question, there's an abrasive question, there's a curious question, there's a theoretical question. I can ask a question without using words, just by my gestures and facial expressions. Liz, right? I mean, there's all sorts of ways you could ask questions, and I think, and we don't have to do a deep, nerdy dive into all 27 other than to articulate that there is a broad scope and spectrum and expression of this powerful tool that is not only given to us, but is modeled to us by God, and we see throughout the New Testament by Jesus, multiple multiple occasions,

Joshua Johnson: 9:55

at the very top in your title of your book, The Art of asking better questions that infers that there are bad questions. So what are some examples of bad questions that don't help

J.R. Briggs: 10:08

Well, let me back up a little bit, because I think all good all good questions contain four pillars. And so you could say bad questions have the opposite effect on this. So the first one is, there has to be curiosity. I don't know how you ask a question without being curious, right? At least a good question without being curious. Second of all is wisdom. There's so many questions I could ask, and so am I asking the right question at the right time to the right person for the right motive? It takes a lot of wisdom to discern that number two, number three is humility. If I'm asking a question, I am admitting I don't know something. And so one of the reasons people don't ask questions is they don't have the humility to say. It, I'm uninformed, I don't know. And then the fourth one, of course, is you need courage. Because if you're going to admit you don't know, it takes a lot of courage to admit, yeah, I might look dumb. I might look uninformed or unintelligent. And so curiosity, wisdom, humility and courage. And if those four things are there, those, I believe, are good questions on the other end, the other side of the spectrum, a bad question there, therefore is assuming it doesn't have curiosity. I assume a lot about you. There's not wisdom. I can ask a foolish question, maybe even with a foolish tone of voice or at the wrong time, I can still carry a sense of arrogance. What's wrong with you? Who do you think you are? You know, there's, there's no humility in that, and then courage. Sometimes we can hide behind our questions too, and they can be a form of a mask to keep us protected from harm or hurt or exposure. So I think wounding questions. I think there are a lot of counselors couches who are full of people who had someone inflict a question on them at a young age that is stuck with them and caused harm for years, if not decades. I know I've talked with several that have said, Man, my dad just kept saying, What's wrong with you? Why can't you be XYZ? And this adult said, I think about that every day of my life that question dominates my thinking, so like sex or money or electricity or water, how we use questions matters and it has such power. It could be used for great life, or it can be used for great destruction.

Joshua Johnson: 13:19

So if you think about that in there, if it could lead to life, if we're asking questions of ourselves. So people on the couch, therapists like but they're continually they had a question asked to them, you know, why are you like this? Or why did you do this? And you continue to ask that question to yourself. So we have, we're asking questions to ourselves, and they're bad questions, and get us stuck and stuck in a moment. Is Is there a way to start to reframe the bad questions into better questions, to move us into a better direction and move us forward?

J.R. Briggs: 13:57

Yes, great question here, Joshua, while I'm yeah, there you go. There you go. You got a point. You're on the board while I'm not a therapist in any way, shape or form, this is important to think through, because our minds right? The renewing of our minds. Romans 12, one and two, oftentimes can happen through the stories we tell ourselves, which is often determined by the questions that we ask. And so this is going to get a little meta, but David Allen says, pay attention to what you're paying attention to. And if we have that ability, we're able to step back and say, what questions dominate my mind, what questions am I asking that are helpful? Which questions am I asking which are unhelpful? And how do I know the difference? One of the questions I ask leaders that I work with is, what lies are you tempted to believe, especially in the midst of failure or hardship or setback, and being able to identify that is really important. I think we also need community around us. So an important question too is, what does my support look like around me? Who are the truth tellers in my life that can encourage, challenge, support, hold me accountable, push back a cheerlead for me. I think these are helpful questions, but yeah, identifying the questions we ask is really important. That's why the awareness of the questions we ask, God, ourselves and others, is the most important thing we can do to change to ask ourselves better questions. Because you can't, you can't change what you don't first name, and we've got to be aware before we can make a change.

Joshua Johnson: 15:29

I can name something, I can intellectually know something, but sometimes it doesn't get into my bones, and I could, I could know that I'm asking a bad question, and I could be stuck in that bad question and won't move. So awareness, naming, yes, that is the first step. But is there a next step to help me move into a better posture? It's just I have a hard time just personally moving from my intellectual knowing of something into my being of something and actually putting it into practice.

J.R. Briggs: 16:05

Yes, I love practical things, like when I learned something. So that's great. How does this impact my Tuesday afternoon? And so that's really important to me, so I'm glad you're, you're pressing in on this. The practicality of it, number one is awareness. But we also have to, this may sound silly to even name, but it's important. I have to want to care about questions and asking better questions. I could give people all the tips and tricks and do this and add 17 things, or do these 17 things, add water and stir, and you'll if I don't have a deep desire and I don't see the need for and have a vision for how my life and the lives of others around me can be better. Better because it asks better questions. It doesn't matter the tips and tricks in the tools. So number one is awareness. Number two is a passion for or a commitment to work hard, to want to do it, to see that it's worth it. And then toward the last third of the book is really trying to be ridiculously practical on what are some practices we can engage in, right? We can't train for a marathon unless we actually engage in practices. We can't, you know, have bigger weights or bigger muscles, unless we're engaged with weights. And so what I've tried to do was list several of these for readers to be able to say, here's what you can do before you have a conversation. Here's some practices you can engage in during the conversation. And here's what you can do as an after action review, reflecting on after a conversation. How did that go? What worked well, what didn't, and how can I get better? And I intentionally list too many, because if we try to do all of them, we're going to fail. And I don't want to set anybody up for failure. I just say, try a few of these, and I try to be creative on those. And I think the most practical thing on this, Joshua people say, of all the tools, of all the practices, which one is most important? I think it's part of that awareness piece too, is write down all the good questions that you hear. They could be your questions. They could be ones you read about, hear about, overhear someone say, think about, but we will say, I'll remember it later. No, we won't. It's important to have a note section of our phone, a journal. Could be an index card in our pocket, but a place where we can write down our best questions that we can go back to regularly. And I love doing that practice. I've been doing that years in my notebook. The last page of my notebook is always questions I'm asking in this season of my life. And just being aware and people think I'm not really good at coming up with my own questions. That's okay, steal them, borrow them, plagiarize them, whatever you need to do, just record the best questions and just being aware of those and even asking, Why do I think that's a good question. Why did that stick with me? Can also help us as well.

Joshua Johnson: 18:55

How did Jesus, disciple teach and lead people into the way of the kingdom of God? What was his his method?

J.R. Briggs: 19:05

One of the things I found in my research on this went beyond just questions, but of the pedagogical approach of Jesus. How did Jesus teach? How did he teach for life change? And I noticed that he took all of his listeners on three different types of field trips. He took them on literal field trips, what we might call peripatetic you know, walking life, walking around the whole world, is our curriculum. And so he'd say, Look at the birds of the air. Look at the lilies of the field. Look at the two. Look at the women putting two mites in all that she has. And he turns those into lessons. So one were literal field trips. Number two were our emotional field trips, using stories and parables. And we know those well, but that moves us when we hear a good story. And then the third mental field trips, where he asked questions to provoke thought. And when I see those three ways in which Jesus takes people on field trips, literal by walking around, emotional, telling stories and mental by asking questions, I look at that and I say, you know, if I'm really honest, oftentimes I've taught the exact opposite. I sit people in a room, I tell them information and facts. I don't ask questions, I just give answers, and then I sit around and wonder why nobody's changing. I think we can learn a lot from Jesus's approach and all three of those areas of experiential learning, storytelling and question asking. I'm just focusing on that third field trip in this book, but the centrality of Jesus's questions in his ministry. It's kind of like the FedEx arrow. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. They are everywhere, and there are a lot of different numbers out there. But in my my study that I did, there are over 300 questions in the New Testament that Jesus asked the four Gospels and one in the book of Acts. And what's fascinating is Jesus is nearly 40 times four zero, 40 times more likely to ask a question than to give a direct answer in the Gospels. And we think the opposite. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life proclamation is important. I think if we had to guess, we might say he was 40 times more likely to give a direct answer than he was to ask a question. But it's the opposite. Questions were so central to his rabbinic training of how he became a teacher. It's very different than us today, but he asked all sorts of questions, and they provoked learning and thought Jesus is so brilliant, not just what to ask and who to ask and when to ask, even where he asked, it mattered tremendously. So if we take out the questions of Jesus, we take out a huge portion of the life change that happened in the four gospels.

Joshua Johnson: 21:45

Give me an example of. A powerful question that Jesus asks in the Gospels.

J.R. Briggs: 21:50

It's hard to narrow down just one, but one that sticks with me the most is in my personal life, is the question of Bartimaeus. He asked Bartimaeus, what do you want me to do for you? Now I'm in the Philadelphia area, where snark is a spiritual gift in a lot of people's minds. And so I'll say that it'd be easy to say, as someone here in Philadelphia, what do you think Jesus? Take a wild guess, the guy can't see. What do you think he wants? But on the surface, that might be the case, but on a much deeper level, it's a brilliant question. What do you want me to do for you? Of course, he knew what Bartimaeus wanted, but he needed Bartimaeus to name what Bartimaeus wanted, and to me, that's such a brilliant question. I think also as the reader, there's another layer there, where we read the story of Bartimaeus, but have to ask ourselves the question, what do I really want Jesus to do for me? And that forces us to really think about what do we long for in our relationship with Jesus? And so there's a lot of layers to that. I think, as as Christians, oftentimes we're nervous about treating God as a genie in a bottle where we if we rub it the right way, we get three wishes, and God is not a genie, and Jesus doesn't operate that way, but God is our Father who loves to hear what's on the heart of his kids, and we're his kids. And I think that question, when my prayer life is stuck, when my faith is shallow, I think about Jesus asking me the same question he asked Bartimaeus Jr, what do you want me to do for you? And if I can sit with that for a while, that often unlocks I just feel locked up sometimes with my prayer life, and it just opens up a new channel of communication and connection with God. It's not name it and claim it. It's not prosperity gospel. I just remember God is my Father who loves me, loves to hear what's on the heart of his kids, and I'm one of his kids, and that helps me engage. So there are 10 more examples I could give, but the Bartimaeus question is one that personally means a great deal to me. So what

Joshua Johnson: 23:57

do you want God to do for you now? And if you if it's too personal, right this second, what have you wanted him to do in the past? Give me, yeah, yeah.

J.R. Briggs: 24:04

It's a great question. Sometimes that question has taken me 13 seconds to answer. It's very clear, and it's right, brimming just below the surface of my heart. There are other times Joshua, where it has taken me about six months to answer that question, where I'm like, what is it I really want? I mean, I want that, but is that what I really want? What is that? Is that what I want? And so I've, I've wrestled with that at various lengths of time, as far as right now, when it comes to the book, I'm actually asking, Lord, would you allow me to hear some stories of people who've been impacted by the message of this book? Now that's more of the book for me, personally, is I am, I am longing. I really want patience and joy. I'm not a very patient person, and joy doesn't come easily to me, and I have been gnawing on that bone in prayer. God, I'm not demanding it, but God, I know that I want to grow, and need to grow in the area of patience and joy. And would you surprise me with those? And when it's there, I just want to turn around and thank you for those. But I keep praying into that. I keep inviting others to pray in with me. So what do I want him to do? I want him to help make me into a more patient, joyful person. Because I think that is really what it means to be in the with God life.

Joshua Johnson: 25:29

Is there a way that Jesus started to excavate the desire under the desire in people's lives with good questions, to move not just as surface level, but then into a deeper place, and what does that look like as good questions.

J.R. Briggs: 25:48

I could think of two examples off the top of my head. Number one is the rich young ruler who started out, you're a good teacher. And what does Jesus say? He doesn't say, thank you very much. I appreciate that. He said, Why do you call Me good which at first sounds like, just take a compliment Jesus. However, what a profound question that grabs me and maybe others around the throat and won't let go. What is it that I actually think Jesus is good? Why is he good? What makes him good? Can I trust His goodness? Why do I doubt His goodness? So that number one just catches me off guard a little bit, because I imagine that Jesus, or the man, was expecting Jesus to say, well, thank you very much. I'm flattered. I'm honored you think I'm a good teacher. So that's one example, the end of Mark eight. Which man we could we could talk about the questions at the end of Mark eight, when Jesus asked his disciples on the way up to Caesarea, Philippi, a very pagan city in the north of Israel, when he says, Who do people. Say that I am. He's taking a straw poll. I don't know if he cares as much about that, but he's setting it up for what is to come. Ah, some people say you're a good teacher, you're a prophet. And then he says, what about you? Question 2/3. Question, who do you say that I am? I mean, it just doesn't get any more personal than that. And so Jesus could have asked that, by the way, in the temple in Jerusalem, monotheistic Jerusalem, where everyone serves Yahweh, who's in the temple, but instead he chooses to ask it when they're on the way to one of the most pagan cities, which is in the northern regions, also called Caesarea. Philippi was also called Banas or panius, the god of Pan The God of Everything. And so you can visit today this rock scarp. And there are niches everywhere with little spaces to put idols. Ancient scholars said it'd be easier to find idols there than a man. And so he goes to this polytheistic place, and he's choosing to ask his disciples, Who do you say that I am? Now, I'm not adding to the text, but I am wondering. I'm inferring. I'm curious if Jesus might have said, Am I just one of these, all these gods? Am I just one of them, or am i greater than all of them? Now, again, he could ask that in the temple, but he chooses to take them out of their environment, to a place of discomfort, of some dissonance, and ask the question. That's where he's so brilliant of not just what and where, or what and when, but also where he asks it.

Joshua Johnson: 28:20

I've had coaching relationships where I'm asking people a lot of questions. One of the things that we try not to do is ask leading questions. It sometimes does seem like Jesus and God in the Old Testament are asking leading questions that they know the answer to Yes, the person that they're asking the question to, they just don't know the answer, but they need to be led to the answer. How do you ask a good leading question and a better leading question, where it's not arrogance, there's still some humility, but there is something that we want to get to, a core truth that they just aren't there.

J.R. Briggs: 28:58

Yet, some would say we should never ask leading questions. I'm not there. I think there are appropriate times. This goes back to the need for wisdom. When do we use that and as far as leading questions, I mean, you get to the middle part of job, right? And Job's complaining. And, I mean, for five straight chapters, 60 questions in a row, God unleashes and unleashes is the right verb, unleashes on job. These, those are all leading questions, right? They have a clear answer. You know, at the end it says, job, Job's out. I put my hand over my mouth. In other words, what have I asked? What did I get myself into? So I think the most important question we can ask ourselves before we open our mouths to ask something vocally is, what is my motive in wanting to ask this question that can save us and get that can keep us out of a lot of trouble. Is my motive to look important? Is it to shut someone down, catch them in something? Is it to deflect? Is it to safeguard or protect? Is it to honor? Is it to be curious? Is it to draw out or affirm someone and so I think when it comes to leading questions, like with any questions, but especially leading questions, it's massively important that we're asking. What is my motive in this leading question? By the way, I think teachers are really good in elementary school of asking their students good leading questions, I think that's we're trying to encourage and lead them toward the right answer in math or in history, almost a way of reminding. And so I think those can, those can be used as powerful tools, even in preaching. And maybe those are more rhetorical. We have to be very careful. Don't you think that? Or wouldn't everyone be an idiot if they thought that? You know, I mean some of those, we've heard those before, and that can be, well, that shuts down rather than opens up. And so if leading questions can open people up and realize it's an invitation that draws us in and elevates and affirms or is a leading question shutting down and diminishing and condescending towards someone else, that's where I think the motive question is really crucial.

Joshua Johnson: 31:09

I think that's helpful to me. I always find that, you know, I like asking a few leading questions, but not a lot, like just very few, because it feels like, Okay, I'm trying to draw it out. There. Just nothing's clicking. It's not well.

J.R. Briggs: 31:26

I mean, I would, I would, actually, I almost wish we had a different category, because there are leading questions. Like, we think negatively. Of like, don't you think anyone who believes this is an idiot, right? I mean, you know, but I think guiding questions are what you're trying to do. And I think leading is good, but guiding, you know, leading can be good. Guiding is better. And if we can ask guiding questions. You're trying to guide people toward a direction, or hold their hand or nudge them or move them into a certain direction that affirms them, I think that's great. So I don't think anybody, I've never heard anybody, talk about guiding questions versus leading questions, but maybe I could coin that I don't know, but guiding questions, I think, are ones with the right motive that are wanting to open up rather than shut down.

Joshua Johnson: 32:11

I'm thinking about our culture, and I think about the Divisions in our culture, and my mind jumps right away to coffee ceremonies in the Middle East. I lived in the Middle East for five years, and when there's been big disagreements within tribes and they can't come to an agreement. They have a coffee ceremony. They get together. The leaders of the tribes come together, or the leaders of the families come together. They drink coffee, they ask questions, and then they come to some sort of agreement. They come together on this issue that has been painful for both of them. What's the posture that that people can take to help bring people together as somebody who asks better questions and good questions. Is there a way that questions can help us in this polarized age?

J.R. Briggs: 33:01

Yes, I think it goes back to those four pillars again, curiosity, wisdom, humility and courage. And I think that there are even some prompts that we can learn. Let's say there's disagreement, or at least misunderstanding, of just coaching leaders and learning with with others to be able to say things like, can you help me understand dot, dot, dot. You have to be careful with the tone, because, if not, that comes off real harsh. Help me understand how you but if I can, with great humility and curiosity, say, can you help me understand how you arrived at this? Can you help me understand your point a little bit more? Or will you help me? I think that's the the posture of invitation. Will you help me? David Brooks, you know, New York Times journalist and author his book, how to how to know a human is fantastic, and inside of it, he he talks about reframing some of the questions that we ask. So as he noticed the polarization, especially the political and cultural polarization, when people would have a strong opinion, he wouldn't say like, well, how can you how can you believe that? He would change the question and say, Tell me how you arrived at believing that. And I just love that turn, because it's saying, Help me understand the background that led to you being so strong to believe this. And he said, it's always a much more human and interesting question, more humanized question, when, when we ask that rather than like, why do you believe that? How did you arrive at that? What are the factors that led you to believing that? So I think if we can reframe a little bit and get a little creative on some of those things, I think that could be helpful. Another question too, which needs to be asked when there's trust, is, so what if you and I are wrong, and not just ask What if you're wrong? No, I need to ask too, what if I'm wrong on this issue? What would that mean for you? What would that mean for me? What would that mean for us if we were both wrong, and I think that challenges us to have a lens of humility more than confidence and arrogance.

Joshua Johnson: 35:07

You're talking about reframing questions. DAVID BROOKS talks about that. You also talk a little bit about reframing questions. You use leveling up your questions. So can you give me a few examples of leveled up questions, questions that are commonly asked, that really don't move beyond the surface into a better question that could level up, that could get us into more connection,

J.R. Briggs: 35:35

leveling up questions, I first of all try to think of, what are the lazy, vanilla questions that exist in our culture, right? So there's a universal rule when it comes to question asking you ask a generic, thoughtless question, you're going to get a generic, thoughtless answer. It's as predictable as a communist election. I mean, it just it just all the time this happens, but if we ask a very thoughtful, engaging question, chances are really high we're going to get a thoughtful, engaging answer. So if we say something like so, vanilla questions, to me would be things like, So, how you doing? How's your day now, they're not awful, they're fine, but they're forgettable. They're throwaway questions. So instead of or parents asking, you know, your kid jumps in the car after Middle School, and how was your day at school? Very, predictable, fine, good, boring, whatever, or they grunt. You know, my middle school boys, did you know? And I said, Man, I got to do better. You know, if I got to live by this principle, how can I ask a more thoughtful question to get a more thoughtful answer? So instead of, how are you doing, it could be, hey, what's the most interesting part of your day so far? Really a question. My dad. Dad loves to ask. He'll say, today, are you winning or losing? And people go, Well, by what standard he goes? Do you tell me, it just gets people thinking just a little bit more or instead of, you know, what are you looking forward to this week? It could be, is there anything you're nervous about this week? How was vacation? We could level up and say, what is one snapshot from your vacation that puts a smile on your face? What's one moment or experience you had as a family that just leads to you know, instead of where do you live, to ask, What do you like about where you live? What's hard about where you live? So those are some leveling up that always lead to more conversations, richer conversations, if we just be just five or 10% more thoughtful. It's amazing how much richer the engagement is.

Joshua Johnson: 37:35

So, you know, I'd like to turn it over to you. I want you to ask me some questions, to give us some examples of what does it look like to ask better questions. So I'm gonna let you ask me some some good questions. Yeah, hopefully I'll give you a couple of answers, but I want to hear at least some good questions.

J.R. Briggs: 37:55

Sure, and I have nothing scripted here, but I but a couple things. First of all, let me just start with an affirmation, Joshua, you are a great question. Asker, not everybody is that. There's a very small percentage of Americans that I have met who asked really good questions, you're in that upper echelon. You're very thoughtful. You come prepared. So let me ask you this. How did you get so good at asking good questions? Is that? Do you think that was nature, nurture? Have you worked hard at that? Where did that come from? That skill and that gift that you have?

Joshua Johnson: 38:27

It's practice. So hopefully, now that I've done so many interviews, that I'm actually getting better at it, but it's also curiosity that I actually want to know. So it is an insatiable like thing inside of me that I actually want to learn and I want to grow and I want to know. And so it is a curiosity of asking a question so that I could get to something. And I just think that I want to embody the ways of Jesus, and he was a good question asker, and that was who he was. And so I want to be like Jesus. And so that's I just tried and got better. Great.

J.R. Briggs: 39:08

Why do you think more people don't ask good questions?

Joshua Johnson: 39:11

I think a lot of people are afraid that they're going to get answers that they that are uncomfortable, that will lead them into a place of risk, vulnerability and a place that they are afraid to enter into. I think that people are stuck in their comfort zones, especially in America. I have found around the world that more people ask questions than they do in America, and I think they're more comfortable with being uncomfortable.

J.R. Briggs: 39:43

What are the question or questions that you wish more people would ask you.

Joshua Johnson: 39:50

Probably the bar to may ask question, what do you really want? What's your desire? It would be questions of actually trying to get to know who I am. I think a lot of questions are often surface questions like, What? What do you do? But they don't go deep into why you do it, or what's the desire there. I like questions that make me think deeply, and so if it is I love talking about movies I could think really deeply. And people don't ask good questions about, hey, you saw this, and then go deeper into something. I just like deep thinking questions where I can interrogate my own soul and what I think about something

J.R. Briggs: 40:34

that's good. What would you say to somebody that says, You know what? JR, Joshua, okay, you guys like questions. You like to go deep in conversation. I don't know if I really like that. I don't know if that interests me. Why should I think about being better at asking questions you that's great for you guys, but that's not really what I need in my life. How would you respond to somebody like that who maybe doesn't see or doesn't want to see? The power of questions?

Joshua Johnson: 41:00

How has the certainty in your life led you to a good path? I think that curiosity leads to greater love and compassion in this world and less division and fear in the world. And if I want to live in fear and I want to cloister up into my own camp to feel like I might be safe, then go for it and don't ask any questions. But if you do ask questions in relationship, you're going to be led into a way that actually looks more like Jesus embodies the way of the kingdom of God, and you could actually find connection with people and more in common with people than you ever thought possible before.

J.R. Briggs: 41:43

Love it. So think back of all of the episodes. Is that you have interviewed someone on this podcast. What are some of the questions you're most proud of? Maybe they're frequent questions, or a one off question that you've asked that you said, Man, I think these are some of the not out of arrogance, but just, I think these are some of the best questions I've asked.

Joshua Johnson: 42:03

No, this is, this is the problem, if you look at like my strengths insight report. So if you go Strengths Finder, I think there was one line in there. It says, you often marvel at what you say. So it's not about what others say, is what I say. And every once in a while, I say, Man, that was a good question. And I think about that in the moment, I was like, Oh, wow, that was good. And I marvel at myself. The problem is, I don't remember it. I don't know. I don't remember those questions, but I do remember that I have marveled about myself when I go, Oh, that was a good question. I'm glad I got

J.R. Briggs: 42:40

there Fair enough. And maybe that's just a challenge that next time you say that, you know, I'd be curious if you wrote those down, you know, like, what would happen if over the next handful of episodes, when you find yourself say that, jot it down and I wonder if there's a theme there. So what have been some of the most important, influential or impactful questions you've been asked over your lifetime?

Joshua Johnson: 43:02

I'll go back to the bar to man's question, what do you want from me? I think God has has asked me that specifically, I think a big, impactful question is a single word question, and I think it's why. And a why question, to me, if it's asked in a in a humble, curious way, leads me to interrogation, to go deeper, I remember I'm a very futuristic, oriented person, and I want to like, Hey, this is where we're going. Here's the strategy, and let's go. And the people that slow me down are good for me because they ask why? Questions, what is the purpose? Where are we going? Why are we doing this? What's What's the importance of these three aspects? It is the slowing down, asking why, and going deeper into something where I just want to move and go forward, and people slow me down and say, what's the purpose behind this, and what's the strategy? And I think a really good question is this, is this a good idea, or is this a god idea? Is this a good Joshua idea, or is this something that God wants us to enter into?

J.R. Briggs: 44:24

Great if you didn't have people around you asking that question or asking, why? How different would your life be?

Joshua Johnson: 44:31

I would probably be where I was in my 20s, where I was I was stuck, and I was just living a life that I didn't know where I was going or what I was doing. I just feel like, if people don't ask good questions, and why questions and slow down like and the purpose behind things, and what's your purpose, and where are you going, and why are you headed that way? I would have been stuck and just living a Driftless life.

J.R. Briggs: 45:02

This may be a little too personal, and if it is, you can punt on it, that's fine. But when's the last time you cried, and why

Joshua Johnson: 45:08

the last time I cried was on. When was that Monday? No, Tuesday, yeah, Monday night, when the mariners won their first playoff game in the series, and they won their first home playoff game in 24 years. Yeah, and I cried. We're going through. We're going through Emotionally Healthy Spirituality as group in our in our church right now, and this week, we're talking about family of origin stuff. And I was watching the mariners game as we were going through. And I grew up in Seattle area, so I basically, I told people, I was like, This is my family of origin story. This is what I need to get healed from. And that game that win on Tuesday night, I cried a little my I told my wife, I cried a little because she went to bed before it was over and she laughed at me. But that's when I cried.

J.R. Briggs: 46:04

It was sports. You know what? I'm a huge baseball fan. We're crying here in Philadelphia, down oh two to the Dodgers right now, but, but I'm curious, what does that like? Let's drill down a little bit deeper. I'm curious, what do you think that reveals in you of what you truly care about? Now, of course, you care about baseball, but what do you truly care about? What's the next level down there?

Joshua Johnson: 46:25

It is a love of a team that I've been with through thick and a lot of thin, a lot of loss, a team that has never actually been to the World Series have gotten my heart broken a lot, but it's I think it is a commitment to stay with people over the long haul and to see. People actually succeed into a place of something that they have started to get, what they have desired more than what I've desired, but they're getting something that they have desired. And it's been such a long time, it's the like, finally this relief. It's just a, it's a, it's a cry of joy, because they're getting something that they have longed for for years.

J.R. Briggs: 47:14

That's beautiful. I love that. I'm wondering if I could just ask you one more question about questions, if that's okay, and by the way, thank you. This has been fascinating. I'm loving learning from you and about you, and even your willingness to go deep on that question with the mariners like that's very profound. So you're obviously great at asking questions. I see it. You're very high emotional intelligence, you're intuitive, so you're already great at it. If you were to grow Joshua by 10 or 15% to become an even better question asker, what do you think he would take for that to happen?

Joshua Johnson: 47:42

I think it would take, I think it would take more practice, but I think it would take an intentionality to be coached into a place that I could be a better question asker. So there's, there's two places. I think it's the the practical Apprenticeship of somebody that actually can ask really good questions, and then would be willing to walk me through and coach me. And then two, it is finding out just actually the practical seeing people who are good question askers, and then analyzing why they ask good questions, and what is it, how they go about doing it, and why people think it's a good question, and not just the actual form of the question, but what's underneath the question, because I think that's probably more important than the actual question that's being asked. It is what's underneath and what's going on in a connective moment than it is the actual question,

J.R. Briggs: 48:42

Joshua, you are clearly a very intrinsically motivated and intentional person, and I love that, and I just want to value that and affirm that, because that's rare in our world today. Yeah, and you are very good at questions already. And yeah, thank you for even blessing me with the questions you've asked me. So thanks for letting me put you on the hot seat too. You did a

Joshua Johnson: 49:05

pretty fun it was fun. It was great. As you can see, sometimes I'm more articulate in the questions I ask than in the answers that I give, because sometimes it takes me longer to like interrogate what, what am I actually feeling and thinking? But that is good. So here's a question. If you could go and talk to your readers about the art of asking better questions. What do you hope for this book? What do you hope the readers get from this

J.R. Briggs: 49:32

I hope that they're able to see like the FedEx arrow, and then they can't unsee it, that the power of questions is there. It's free, it's accessible, it's available, and it really can enhance I can't think of a single area of anyone's life where learning to ask better questions wouldn't be helpful, and I think if people can grasp that power, that's where I tried to light my hair on fire in this book, to try to persuade people to say, Listen, no one says, Oh man, that's terrible. You learn to ask better questions. We're all in trouble now, and I just think that we can embrace this. We're going to see different marriages. We're going to see healthier parenting, deeper friendships, deeper faith, more creative ideas. I just don't think there's a limit on what happens when we all learn to ask better questions. That's what I'm passionate about

Joshua Johnson: 50:28

couple of quick questions I like to ask at the end. One, if you go back to your 21 year old self, what advice would you give?

J.R. Briggs: 50:34

Relax. Relax. You don't have to have it all figured out. Be intentional, be open, but, but relax. There's no need to stress out. Feel like you have to have it figured out. At 21 you

Joshua Johnson: 50:46

don't have to have to have it all figured out, but it would be nice to have, like, one or two things that you could, you know, take a step. That would be good. You just That's great. Anything you've been reading or watching lately, you could recommend.

J.R. Briggs: 50:59

I've got a stack of books. It's a little bit too large right now, but I do love to read. It's October when we're recording this, and I'm a huge baseball fan, so there's not much reading that gets done in the month of October every year because I watch baseball. But I'm reading a biography on Martin Luther King, Jr, just called King right now. It's fantastic. I'm also reading a book called The Accidental president, about the life of Harry Truman that I'm finding interesting. And I just broke the binding on it to start it on a biography of Genghis Khan. I never would have picked it up, but to somebody that I absolutely respect said it was a fascinating read about leadership. And I went, huh? I guess I don't know much about Genghis Khan, but I'm about to find out. And they called him one of the top five leaders ever. And I said, why? Wow, really, this is someone that I respect greatly, and so I'm about to dig in and explore that, but that, and I'll throw in a little bit of Mary Oliver poetry. I do like to read poetry from time to time. So those are some someone in a theology book by von von Balthasar right now. So throw it in a little theology as well.

Joshua Johnson: 52:10

Well, the art of asking better questions is out now, available anywhere books are sold. Is there anywhere specific you'd like to point people to for the book? And how can people connect with you? Where would you like to point people to?

J.R. Briggs: 52:21

Yeah, you could. You could buy a book anywhere that good books are sold, like you mentioned. You can also buy it off the the publisher's website, which is InterVarsity press. It's just IV press.com and I'd love to interact with with people. You can find me at JR briggs.com or our organization is Kairos partnerships.org, K, a, i, r, O, S, partnerships.org, and I'm also on social media as well.

Joshua Johnson: 52:45

Well, J, R, thank you for going deep in the art of asking better questions, helping us see that God is a great question, asker, Jesus was a great question. Asker, that we could be great question askers, that we could level up our questions, that we don't have to ask questions that just stay at the surface level, but that we could actually have questions that not just have information and get information, but actually give us a place where we could have connection with one another, that it could hopefully actually even bridge the divides that we have in this world as we ask good questions. So thank you. It was fantastic.

J.R. Briggs: 53:21

Well, thanks for having me, Joshua, and thanks for letting me interview you and put you on the hot seat. I learned a great deal, and hopefully your listeners did as well. You.