Resilience Development in Action

E.204 Your Badge Doesn't Make You Bulletproof With Beth Salmo

• Steve Bisson, Beth Salmo • Season 12 • Episode 204

Share episode

Send us a text

The weight of witnessing trauma daily doesn't just disappear when the uniform comes off. For our first responders—those who run toward danger while others flee—the psychological impact accumulates silently, often with devastating consequences.

Beth Salmo, licensed professional counselor and owner of Thin Line Counseling, joins us to unveil the realities of mental health in emergency services. Drawing from her specialized experience working with police officers, firefighters, paramedics, and military personnel, Beth shares how the profession's culture of stoicism creates barriers to necessary care. Her journey into this work—sparked by the alcohol-related death of a former partner who was an ATF agent—reveals how even those trained to help others often struggle to seek help themselves.

We dive deep into the misconceptions that keep first responders from therapy doors. "They can't take my gun" and "my department will find out" top the list of fears Beth dispels with clarity and compassion. She explains the iron-clad confidentiality that protects client-therapist relationships and how specialized clinicians understand the unique culture and challenges of emergency service work.

The Missouri First Responder Provider Network emerges as a model program, connecting those in need with culturally competent therapists within days rather than the weeks or months typical of standard mental health services. This network of vetted professionals not only understands first responder culture but also provides financial assistance to ensure access regardless of economic barriers.

Through authentic conversation peppered with unfiltered language that mirrors real first responder culture, Beth emphasizes that true strength lies in acknowledging human vulnerability. For those running toward danger every day, mental well-being isn't optional—it's essential maintenance that ensures they can continue serving when others need them most.

You can connect with Beth through Thin Line Counseling by visiting www.tlc-help.com 

Follow her on Facebook www.facebook.com/thinlinecounselingservices and Instagram @tlc_help. 

She can be reached at beth@tlc-help.com or at 314.297.0331


The Missouri First Responder Provider Network can be reached here: https://mofrpn.org/


Freed.ai: We’ll Do Your SOAP Notes!
Freed AI converts conversations into SOAP note.Use code Steve50 for $50 off the 1st month!

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Support the show



YouTube Channel For The Podcast




Speaker 1:

Welcome to Resilience Development in Action, where strength meets strategy and courage to help you move forward. Each week, your host, steve Bisson, a therapist with over two decades of experience in the first responder community, brings you powerful conversations about resilience, growth and healing through trauma and grief. Whether you're navigating the complex journey of grief, processing trauma or seeking to build resilience in high-stress environments, this podcast is your trusted companion. From first responders facing daily challenges to emergency personnel managing critical situations, to leaders carrying the weight of difficult decisions, we're here to support your journey. Through authentic interviews, expert discussions and real-world experiences, we dive deep into the heart of human resilience. We explore crucial topics like trauma recovery, grief processing, stress management and emotional well-being. Our conversations bridge the gap between professional insight and practical application, offering you tools and strategies that work in the real world. Join us as we create a space where healing is possible, where grief finds understanding and where resilience becomes your foundation for growth. This is Resilience Development in Action with Steve Bisson.

Speaker 2:

Bienvenue encore une fois. Welcome once again to Resilience Development in Action. This is episode 204. If you haven't listened to episode 203, it is with Nick Johnson. I hope you go back and listen to him. He had a lot of stuff about coaching, which is not the typical stuff that we talk about here, but definitely something that I consider very close to the work that we do with first responders. There's the same pressures, in my opinion, on certain things Not everything, obviously but episode 204 is with Beth Saldo.

Speaker 2:

Beth Saldo is someone, again, I met through Facebook and she's a clinical mental health counselor who got her master's at the University of Arkansas, Fayetteville. She's a licensed professional counselor in Missouri and also in Illinois. She owns the Thin Line Counseling Service, where she specializes in working with first responders, military individuals and their family members. She's trained and practices trauma-focused CBT, EMDR to treat trauma, depression and anxiety. Can't wait to have that interview. So here it is, GetFreeai. Yes, you've heard me talk about it previously in other episodes, but I'm going to talk about it again because GetFreeai is just a great service.

Speaker 2:

Imagine being able to pay attention to your clients all the time instead of writing notes and making sure that the note's going to sound good and and how are you gonna write that note? And things like that. Get free. That AI liberates you from making sure that you're writing what the client is saying, because it is keeping track of what you're saying and will create, after the end of every session, a progress note. But it goes above and beyond that. Not only does it create a progress note, it also gives you suggestions for goals, gives you even a mental status if you've asked questions around that, as well as being able to write a letter for your client to know what you talked about. So that's the great, great thing. It saves me time, it saves me a lot of aggravation and it just speeds up the progress note process so well.

Speaker 2:

And for $99 a month. I know that that's nothing. That's worth my time. That's worth my money, you know. The best part of it too is that if you want to go and put in the code Steve50 when you get the service at the checkout code is Steve50, you get $50 off your first month and if you get a whole year, you save a whole 10% for the whole year.

Speaker 2:

So again, Steve50 at checkout for getfreeai. We'll give you $50 off for the first month and, like I said get a full year, get 10% off, get free from writing notes, get free from always scribbling while you're talking to a client and just paying attention to your client. So they win out, you win out, everybody wins, and I think that this is the greatest thing. And if you're up to a point where you got to change a treatment plan, well, the goals are generated for you. So getfreeai code Steve50 to save $50 on your first month. Steve 50 to save $50 on your first month. Welcome to episode 204 of Resilience, Development and Action. Still getting used to saying that word, but I'm very happy to have Beth Salmo here. I hope I pronounced it right.

Speaker 3:

Beth Salmo, yes.

Speaker 2:

All right, I try to do it right because people master my last name regularly. But no, you know, beth was in a group on Facebook that we have for first responders and clinicians and I really wanted to get to know her. I want to get these resources out to first responders across the board. So please, you know, like, listen to this, because I'm going to meet people from all over the country. We all have the same goal in this group and that's really to give the first responders a chance to get the support. So, beth, welcome to Resilience, development and Action.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, thanks for having me. It's so nice to be here today.

Speaker 2:

I loved our chat beforehand and, yes, expletives are more than encouraged Fuck yeah. Yeah, exactly, and if you don't relate to that then you can obviously unsubscribe from my podcast. And if you relate to it, send 10 people my podcast, that way you can subscribe to it. But I got to know you a little bit. Very, very fun to talk to you, knowing that you could fit in perfectly in the Boston area.

Speaker 3:

But people who are listening may not know who you are, so please introduce yourself. Yeah, so my name is Beth. I'm a licensed professional counselor, lpc in St Louis, missouri metro area, and I specialize in working with first responders and military, as well as their family members.

Speaker 2:

I love the first point you just made, because we forget about the families so regularly and usually, like, we think about the firefighter who does a 24, but we don't think about the you know, the partner at home with if there's kids or animals or whatever that have to take care of during that 24 hours. So very good point, we should definitely talk about that. Have to take care of during that 24 hours. So very good point, we should definitely talk about that. But you know I always ask, you know I used to have another question. I asked my old podcast. The new question I want to ask is what's your goal on being on this podcast?

Speaker 3:

What were you? What do you want to get out of this podcast for yourself? Yeah, yeah, I am just passionate about helping first responders and military and their family members. I've been a part of the community in one way or another for a while and I want them to have all the resources and education that they can to take care of themselves, because if we don't take care of this and this and I'm for just listeners I'm pointing to my body and my mind- If we're not taking care of those.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, go to YouTube. If we're not taking care of this, how can you be a tool or an instrument to help your communities in your country?

Speaker 2:

You know I have a friend who talks about we don't mind a check-in from the shoulders down, but we as first responders, they typically don't want to do the check-in from the neck up and it's really important to do both and certainly that's what you're pointing out and I had a guest not too long ago who was talking about. You know we see human beings sees four to five regular like traumatic events and like significant traumatic events in their career. You know that's what first responders can see within six months to a year of their first year on the job. So we definitely need to do the checkup from the neck up really well, but you know one thing I always say is is you do your PT or you know you?

Speaker 3:

you're in the gym, you're taking your supplements and you're lifting, you're doing all the things. Going to psychotherapy is you know, it's analogous, analogous, it's an analogy for going to therapy.

Speaker 2:

You're talking to a guy who's talking about pronunciation.

Speaker 3:

I know how to spell it.

Speaker 2:

Send me a text message email. I'll share it with Beth. Send me a text message email.

Speaker 3:

I'll share it with Beth. Going to the gym for your body, you know, going to therapy for your mind is akin to going to the gym for your body.

Speaker 2:

So right and I think it's important to kind of like that's why I run. I run two groups for first responders and sometimes he degenerates to some really funny stuff and people like, well, why, what, why, how is that therapy? I said, well, they're getting to bond with each other. I also make a conscious effort to keep different departments separate so there's not two persons from two people from the same department. See, I can't even speak in the same, in the same group.

Speaker 3:

I have that effect on people.

Speaker 2:

You know, I can't wait for like, I'm waiting for, like, I'm waiting for, like, I'm waiting for, like you to just like explode, beth, and go fuck this. Fuck that it's waiting for that one. But, um, no, I think the group I separate, like if you're in you know a certain town. I try not to take two people from the same town, so that way it's like they can talk about you know we.

Speaker 2:

we talked about geez. I mean, you can send me a message and, beth, I can tell you off air. But I think the last few weeks we've been talking about me being a maid in a French maid outfit and we talked about someone having ED treatment by shocking that area. So she so. But the people like, oh, how's that therapy? We bond like no one else, and I think that's so important and for me, that's what I think was missing when I worked with first responders originally in my early career. But I wonder what brought you to the first responder world, what brought you to working with first responders, because it's not something that you just wake up one day and go, yeah, sounds like a good idea, I'm going to do that. So I just want to know a little more about how you started.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's kind of a long history so I'll try to be as succinct as possible. I had a fair amount of interface with first responders as a child. My dad was very sick. He had had brain cancer. He survived but because of that he was disabled. He had a lot of health problems.

Speaker 3:

So I remember, like being 12 years old, coming home from school and finding him unconscious on the floor under a six degree temperature, paralyzed on half his body had urinated himself, and I knew exactly what to do. I gathered all his medications, I called 911. I very calmly told the dispatcher what was going on. So there's dispatch and then, of course I don't know if it's BLS or EMS came and so I dealt with them and then, of course, police and fire. There's a 12-year-old calling. When I was five I called 911, giggled and hung up. So a very nice police officer in the late 80s came and had a talk with me about that. He was strict but kind. So I've had a lot of you know, and that's just kind of some of my interaction, and so I've had very positive experiences. So there's that.

Speaker 3:

And then when I was a senior in high school, 9-11 happens and so that was very impactful for me and I thought about becoming a police officer. I ended up signing up to go into the Air Force and the three weeks before basic training my father had a hematoma on his brain and had to have emergency brain surgery. So I dropped out of the Air Force. I'd gone through Mets, had sworn in all the things and I told my recruiter he's like you know that I had to drop and he's like you got a 93 on your ASVAB. I'm like I know, but my dad's my best friend and I need to go, and so part of me really regrets that, but part of me doesn't. Anyway, I'm being really long-winded here, but I ended up-.

Speaker 2:

No, this is your narrative. Please go ahead. To me, I always find it fascinating how people get into this field, so please go ahead. I'll put you down if you need to. That's fair.

Speaker 3:

Oh, great, thank you. So about what year was it? I don't know? Seven, eight years ago, I ended up dating someone who was an ATF agent. Note, I said, was we dated for a little while, on and off, turned out he had a drinking problem, very common in this population, of course, and we ended up going separate ways for different reasons. And then I found out in 2021, I believe August of 21, that he had died, and I didn't know why, but I have connections in both local, municipal, state and federal law enforcement in the area. So I did some digging, found out he had drank himself to death. He was 42 years old, jesus Christ. Yeah, I refer to it as a suicide, a slow, protracted suicide, because I remember one time, while we were dating, he seemed very, very depressed. I mean, he told me some, really, you know deep stuff. And I asked him one time I said are you having thoughts of killing yourself? Do you want to kill yourself? And he paused for a little longer than I would have liked and he said well, I wouldn't shoot myself.

Speaker 2:

I offered him resources.

Speaker 3:

Yeah yeah, that ambiguity is very concerning to a clinician. So I offered resources because, obviously, having dated him, I couldn't see him and he declined and a couple of years later he was gone. And so, yeah, his his girlfriend found at the time I would she was the person after me found him face down on the couch, unresponsive, and he was in the ICU for a little while and then he expired. So, wow, yeah, and I had always wanted. After deciding to become a therapist, I knew I wanted to work with military and first responders. That was going to be my niche.

Speaker 3:

It was really hard to get into, though, because I myself am not a veteran and not a first responder. So, you know, I knew it would be hard to get into, and I had talked to him about wanting to open a private practice that worked only with this population, and he said you know, I fully support that, but good luck getting them through the door. And I remember him saying you're going to have trouble getting them through the door. And so he and some other people you know it wasn't just him, other people had said that too so I decided, all right, I'll just keep doing the corporate thing selling my soul said that too. So I decided, all right, I'll just keep doing the corporate thing, selling my soul. You know being treated like shit.

Speaker 3:

But then you know he actually died in February of that year and I didn't find out till August, cause I wasn't like friends with his friends, I didn't, I had never met his family or anything. And I I decided when I found out that August, I said I. I decided when I found out that August, I said now's the time. If I can prevent even one more person, well, I'll call Mike that's not his name. But if I can prevent, you know, even one person, one more Mike, then that's a career worth having. So that December I opened Thin Line Counseling.

Speaker 2:

Services LLC. And Quite a story. And you've been going strong since. Did you jump in right away? Did you stay in the corporate world, sell out, but anyway? Did you stay in the corporate world for a while or did you just go straight to private practice?

Speaker 3:

I mean, it was tail end. It was like December 28th, I think, is when my corporation was formed, and so I stayed in the corporate world because I needed health insurance and all the things you know online platforms where I was a contractor. And then, once I had built a reputation, I was going to conferences, I was networking, I was doing ride-alongs all the things working with the people I already knew in my personal life I got to a point where I could pull the plug and give the finger to my good the managed care organization I was working for doing stuff for insurance the devil.

Speaker 2:

So no, that's good, and you know it's hard to build a. You know leave, leaving any type of job. I joke around about the corporate one leaving the job and just saying you know, fuck it, I'm gonna go on my own. Yeah, we all seem like instant success and overnight success. I know people are like, oh, you grew your thing really fast. There's a lot of fear, a lot of anything else, but I don't want to do.

Speaker 3:

Oh, there are a lot of tears, a lot of what am I doing? I'm a fraud, I'm, you know, imposter syndrome, stuff and, like you know, this isn't going to work, I'm not going to be successful. A lot of expensive mistakes, like with insurance, with differently. I mean, I built my website I don't know anything about. I mean you saw me trying to even just like, do my earbuds.

Speaker 2:

She was being humble. She was so quick. She's like why are you so slow? That's what she said.

Speaker 3:

I appreciate that. But no, I mean, like I, I've, I've been the marketer, I've been the advertiser, I'm the biller, I'm the, I'm all the things. I don't have any employees. And the reason I don't have any employees? Cause I totally could and I have enough client. You know clients that I I've had to refer people out to, that I could add another clinician, but I want white glove service and I don't think and it's going to sound like Beth gets some hubris, but I don't think there's many people who can provide the kind of care, concern and passion that I do.

Speaker 2:

And I know it was an X, but I'm still sorry for your loss and I forgot to mention that. I apologize and in all seriousness I get it. I think that you know I've been called a control freak, but I also know that you know it takes a special someone to work with first responders and meet them where they're at and be able to deal with that stuff.

Speaker 1:

I don't think a lot of people.

Speaker 2:

There's things you can't. You can't train, you can't teach that and I think that what you're saying is really resonates with me and a lot of the first responder treaters that I know, because you're like how do you, how do you explain how to engage them? And sometimes having to be a little more direct. You know, I joked around about like you talk about being the marketer and the website designer. You know, I think that's where the whole maid joke started in group the other day, because I was like I'm also the maid, I'm also the cleaner, so I think that's where the joke started in the group. But all joking aside, I get where you're coming from and I certainly respect yeah, it's a hustle, for sure, and it's.

Speaker 3:

you know, we ain't getting rich over here by any means, but but I wouldn't want to do anything else, so I don't want to go.

Speaker 2:

I want to continue going back on the first responders, but my favorite what I tell people is I've seen death in my career so often and I've seen in my personal life so often. You know, I don't I know when I am on my deathbed I'm not going to say, gee, I wish I worked more corporate and I made more money and I invested more money, or whatever I'll be like, I work with people and I help people. I think that's my. I always go back to that. So, even if I'll never be a millionaire, I'm happy with my choices, exactly.

Speaker 3:

Agreed.

Speaker 2:

So you know, one of the things that's really hard for me when I work with first responders particularly is like they come and help. You know they come and see me and they want the help, but they always see like a colleague, even from other departments, and they say, gee, like they need help, can I just give them your phone number? And for every time I gave them my phone number maybe one out of 10 calls they gave him my phone number, maybe one out of 10 calls. So you know, one of the things that comes up for me is how do we get first responders to help themselves and you know how to give them the resources, cause it's not like I know for me. I worked at different jobs and I worked even with parolees and probationers. At one point you can give them a sheet. They're going to look at your sheet and like, ah, it's great, push it aside, and I feel like first responders do the same thing. So how do we help them affect it?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's a wonderful question, A very important question. So I do not pretend to have all the answers, but I can tell you what's kind of worked for me is I get out in my community.

Speaker 3:

And so, for example, friday night there was a bingo night that benefited first responders and military. There's a guy I know who has a foundation where he gets donations and pays for gym memberships and counseling for first responders and veterans, and so it was his bingo night and I attended that and I talked to people. I'm Italian, I come by, naturally, you know I get the, you know nobody's a stranger thing from my dad, and so I just talked to people and if I hear someone is a first responder, you know I ask about them and what they do and I talk to their people, who are civilians or not, first responders or military, and I make myself very approachable and authentic. Who I am in my therapy room is who I am out at the bar hanging out with people, right? So I'm not sure this is really answering your question, but community-.

Speaker 2:

We can to it, no matter.

Speaker 3:

I think community is important. So building relationships with the people in these communities. I've seen a lot of you know pretty good, like social media, like Tik TOK type things. I don't do all that stuff, but I think, especially with the younger, it's really kind of catching them and getting their attention and they're becoming more amenable to the thought of talking to a professional.

Speaker 2:

You know, I've shared it on my podcast. I've had calls from the younger generation of first responders who are like, hey, I'm going to get you on. Like, can I just get to know you? That way, if something happens I can go directly to you, I don't have to tell my story again, again.

Speaker 2:

I think that's a great way to do that. Go in the community. I agree with you. You know I'm still, you know, truthfully, we're like what? 20 minutes in I've only heard you swear like a couple of times. I'm a little disappointed in you, to be honest with you.

Speaker 2:

But you know, I think that's the thing. And you know the other part that you talked about is a ride-along and to me that's the thing. And you know the other part that you talked about is a ride along and to me that's kind of like the key and I I'm in the Northeast and most departments they'll want to, like, you know, vet you a little bit. But if you want to go for ride alongs whether it's fire, police, uh, EMT, slash paramedics, ALS or BLS, depending on where you come from most of them, as long as you're vetted, they're going to let you come on.

Speaker 2:

And what I find fascinating and I don't know if that happened to you I would work with the community. I was there for the community, but a lot of the times I ended up doing the work with the you know the, the officer, the first responder of any kind, who's sitting next to me like talking about their own shit. So I don't know if you've had that experience or not, but that's certainly what I found with my ride-alongs. They were based out of a nonprofit, but I've done a lot of ride-alongs.

Speaker 3:

Well, and to add to that a little bit, a lot of therapists don't know if they can do ride-alongs and they usually think that it's just with police. But your fire department, your EMS, I mean, they'll let you do it as well. Corrections probably not, I don't know the corrections will let you shadow I disagree.

Speaker 2:

You, you call a correction. No, I know. So you can go to any like federal, I don't know, but statewide, if it's a, uh, manage another private one. You say, hey, I want to volunteer to help people out. They'll let you in in two and a half seconds as long as you clear, like oh, we got the v word.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, use the v word volunteer.

Speaker 2:

But but I think it's a it's important. Like you, having worked in a jail for two years, I've worked with my cos, I've worked with those guys and when they come into my office I know what they talk about. You know like when you know what the police do is they arrest someone, put them in and we forget about them in the community. They deal with them in the jails and that's a whole different animal. I always joke around that going to a jail in any part of this country is that as soon as you go past those two walls and you're literally like you might as well be in Zambia. It's such a different.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I worked in a mod to max men's facility in Southern Illinois for a while. It was quite the experience but, to be honest with you, I left because I had more issues with bureaucracy and with the agency that had hired me because they were contracted than I did with the inmates, with the offenders. I had more issues with the people I worked for than I did with the offenders.

Speaker 2:

I'll save the jail and I'm sure you can find it if you go to research me. But when I started there in 2004 or so in the jail, the mop bucket in that particular jail had more respect than I did.

Speaker 3:

So I get it. Yeah and yeah I I'll. That's all I'll say. It's hard to keep my mouth shut sometimes, so I'll I'll be good.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I don't, I don't really care. Like I said, you can look it up. I didn't say name names, but the hardest part is to get through the door for the COs and correctional staff. But you know once, once you're in they will talk. And I think that the other part too is, you know, for therapists and the first responders, you can text me or, you know, ask anyone. I know for a fact that you guys are like, yeah, bring them along. One of the best times ever and it's going to sound super weird was being in the firehouse after a medical call. That was pretty significant. I'll save the details to protect the innocent, but afterwards and just processing around the table, and that was like fascinating to see what happens after a call. I observed first and then I sometimes I throw in an intervention here or there, but I just learned so much from being in that firehouse.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah that. So I um, there was a suicide of an EMT within the past year that I responded to and the guys I went with we basically we just took food, um, and we just sat there and we just kind of shoot the shit and say, hey, we can go in a room privately if you want and talk about what's happened, and other than that we just kind of hung out and chilled. It's just being present. A lot of times is it's helpful just holding that space and you know it's like doing podcasts, this kind of stuff. I love just getting oh, I just lost an ear Hold on.

Speaker 2:

She didn't really lost her ear. For those who are on the audio, she lost the air bud. So just want to make clear that if you want, you can go check on youtube. If you want something gruesome, it's my hair uh, I'll let her uh find it, um, maybe I don't know where it is.

Speaker 3:

Can you hear me? Okay, I don't know, I can hear you, can you hear me?

Speaker 2:

all right? Yeah, I don't know, I can hear you, can you?

Speaker 3:

hear me All right. Yeah, I don't know where it went. I'll find it later.

Speaker 2:

Well, maybe it's a good place to just kind of transition to. Another important thing is that you know I did a podcast on this not too long ago, but I'd love to hear your opinion is like there's a lot of misconceptions as to what therapy is right. Yeah, you know, some people want to get better in three weeks and I typically say, okay, let me find my magic wand. But I think that there's a lot of misconceptions that occur and that's one of them. But do you have any misconceptions? And how therapy is actually?

Speaker 3:

for first responders, yeah, so many misconceptions, and one of the big ones is that your agency will find out that you're seeing me, not trueAA protected.

Speaker 2:

They cannot get that information and I don't know, and I don't want to speak for Beth, but the last thing I want to do is take away someone's gun or license or anything else, and I'm pretty sure Beth stands in the same spot. But I think it's important to really emphasize that. There's other misconceptions I want you to bring up, but, sorry, I'm going to repeat that because too many people are afraid of losing their guns because they come to see us.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yes. So I I make it my goal to not send people inpatient as much as I can, because that would be a time you might temporarily lose the gun. Hear me when I say temporarily, and there's no reason in my mind that you would lose your badge for going inpatient or going to rehab or anything like that, right? So I mean, are there always outliers and extenuating circumstances? Yes, if you commit a crime while you're having a psychotic break or something, then yeah, that might happen, but that is such a minuscule, small amount. So a good clinician is going to get someone into what we call the least restrictive level of care.

Speaker 2:

So I'm just going to be very clear here because, again, this may be listened to by first responders, not necessarily therapists.

Speaker 1:

So when you say least restrictive.

Speaker 2:

I think for them that means just a coat and I'm going to have you strapped back like this If you want to go. Or what does that mean to be less restrictive? I know, I know what it means. I'm just tossing you a soft one so people can understand what we mean.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and. I was going to go there, but that's okay. You can tell me to shut up again.

Speaker 2:

I'm waiting for the expletive to come up. Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 3:

So what that means is usually you're going to start out. I'm an outpatient therapist, which is the least restrictive level of care, right? So you're going to see me If you're not able to function, if you get to a point that you cannot function, can't get out of bed, can't get to work. Depending on the situation, we might look at something called intensive outpatient, which is where you go a couple days a week for about four hours a day into more intensive outpatient therapy. Right, I try to keep people out of what's called partial hospitalization and then about that is inpatient as much as possible. Only in the most dire circumstances are we looking at those options, and in that case nobody's actually going to take your gun. But I might encourage you to talk to your significant other or a family member or friend to have them lock your gun up so you can't harm yourself. If you have indicated that you plan to harm yourself or kill yourself, right.

Speaker 2:

I want to add that partial hospitalizations I agree with you wholeheartedly, however not in a very good way. In Massachusetts we have two places that are excellent first responder based partial hospitalizations.

Speaker 3:

Oh, that's awesome. You'll have to give me those names later.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, but you know there's one in Westboro, Mass, and there's also one out in Winchendon, Mass, and anyway that trying to remember. Sorry, sorry for-site, but they're great and they're specifically for first responders. And so for me personally, I agree with a lot of what you said, because I haven't hospitalized someone in three years. I was a crisis clinician, I worked in an ER and I saw what the hospitals are like.

Speaker 2:

The last thing I ever, ever, ever, ever, ever ever, if I can say it, 20 more times I would send you to a hospital, because hospitals are not there to treat you. They're there to warehouse you and send you back into community. And yes, if you're unhappy as a hospital, again write to me. I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 3:

But that's the truth of what hospitals are they stabilize they, they change you, swap your meds out or put you on meds, and then they say okay, bye, good luck, and that's. That's fucked up. I, I don't, I don't play that, so I'm not gonna put you. I mean, essentially, you have to say I'm going to kill myself, this is how I'm going to do it, and I have the weapon right here, right Like, or the method right Like it's. I work with you to make sure trust is so important, right, and so I want to make sure that you trust that I'm going to put your needs and your family's needs before anything else, while keeping my license intact.

Speaker 2:

You know. I think that that's exactly right. We don't like I don't want to do that either personally. And the other part that I kind of share with people is this is that I've heard homicide, I've heard suicide, I've heard wanting to overdose, I've heard suicide by con. I heard all of that Plus anything else you can imagine. I've heard in a jail about how to escape jail. I've done all these things. So for me, when you bring up anything that you consider very difficult, I'll do anything in my power to keep you out of the hospital. And that's how I explain. It's like you know. Do I hear about suicide every single month of every single year? In my private practice I did.

Speaker 2:

How many people have I hospitalized? I think in 12 years in my private practice I've hospitalized one person and yeah, I had no choice. Like basically, I'm driving to a parking lot, I get to the sixth floor and I'm gonna jump. There's nothing I could do from there. I just can't. There's a we have obligations, just like you do and I that's how I explained it to cops you have an obligation. If I said to you, to you even as a therapist, I'm going to go jump off a 12 story building. You have obligations to stop me hip or not, but I ultimately hopefully you would want to talk me out of it so I don't even get there, but if I can't, you can't you do what you need to do. So I was kind of like reverse roll it so they can understand where I'm sitting.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So that's one misconception you know. Another one is that, like, if you use insurance, your boss will find out right, or your agency will find out. That's not, that's not how that works. But if you're really, really concerned about that, you can always private pay, and most first responder therapists, like myself, will do sliding scale private pay to meet your budget. So I want people to know they have options as well, like if that's something you're really unsure about. Another misconception this one is a big one, one goes along with stigma is that if you go to counseling you're a pussy or you're crazy. It ain't true. I can tell you, as a female who is straight and loves men, I think it makes you strong and admirable when you talk about your feelings and ask for help, and I think most women would tell you that, therapist or not, I think most women would say the fact that you're talking about your feelings and asking for help and saying you know I'm not Batman, I am human is really brave and admirable.

Speaker 2:

Let me just add one thing about that. Not only do your partners typically find that attractive, good partners will not ask you to content of what you talked about.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

You know, I kind of remind them like you're not obligated. You want to share, it share, but if you don't want to share, don't't share. You don't have to do any of that, and that's another misconception. Sometimes it's like well, my partner told me to go to therapy, or my chief told me to go. I gotta tell him what's happening.

Speaker 2:

Hell, no, you don't even need to tell him and keep it to yourself, and it's between you and your therapist, and that's what I tell people. My conversation with you is private, and so that's another another good one to be able to misconceptions that you think we need to talk about.

Speaker 3:

I mean that those are, you know, some major ones, just that like so I'm a certified employee assistance professional, so EAP, and all I can do if you're mandated, all I can do if your chief or someone asks hey, what'd you guys talk about? Is he okay? Blah, blah, she okay. All I can say is they showed up and participated, that's it and that is all I will say. I will say nothing more.

Speaker 2:

That's my standard letter. By the way, Clients showed up and participated on all sessions.

Speaker 3:

Yep, that's it.

Speaker 2:

I don't need to give any content. The only people that may ask for content are for goals only and that's for insurance companies, and I tell people my goals. Sometimes they get pissy that I'm a vague goal type of person, but ultimately they don't even know if you're hitting the goals or not. Just want to know we have goals.

Speaker 1:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

So you know, I think that there's, you know there's so many misconceptions. Yep, so you know, I think that there's, you know there's so many misconceptions. But you know, I also want to be respectful of both our times here. Um, but I, the last one that I really want to mention is what will, um, how is that going to impact any promotions in the future? And the answer, and the answer is like in massachusetts right now, we're, you know again, I'm not going to be popular, but there is a little group now that are trying to. Well, if he's mentally, he has a mental health issue. That could be a reason to dismiss him from the force. We're working on that. We have a great psychiatrist on that board right now working on that. But ultimately, most states don't have that and you're not going to be held from a promotion for going to therapy.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if that's your experience, but that's certainly mine.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I haven't had that come up, but I mean I agree with you.

Speaker 2:

I want to throw that one in. But, more importantly, I want to hear more about you know, like I know, you have a bunch of resources. We're going to share them after this, but can you talk a little bit more about what you want to promote and what you want to talk about here?

Speaker 3:

Yep, so I'm born and raised in Missouri and in Missouri we have something that's been around since 2018. That's fantastic. That just keeps growing. We're kind of a benchmark and I really hope to see this catch on in other states called the Missouri First Responder Provider Network. We have an app, we have a website. So what it is is we are clinicians who are vetted by a board associated with the Missouri Behavioral Health Council and there's on this board there is a psychiatrist, there are other therapists, there are representatives of different state, municipal you know local agencies and they vet us to make sure we're culturally competent.

Speaker 3:

So we go through a process, culturally competent, to work with first responders and we, when somebody's in need, an email goes out to all of us who have been vetted saying you know no identifying details other than you know law enforcement or EMS, fire, whatever trauma. You know no identifying details other than that in this part of the state, state who is available to see this person. So, for example, one of these emails went out today's April 1st I think it went out like March 27th or 28th or something. I responded to it within 24 hours. I was on the phone with the first responder and I saw him yesterday.

Speaker 3:

Yesterday was Monday, so the email went out, I think like Thursday. I saw him Monday. He had basically given up because the wait list for every therapist he had contacted who was not culturally competent on top of it, was like weeks to months. I had him in within a couple of days is M-O for Missouri, m-o-f, like Foxtrot R-R-O-M-E-O-P-P-O-P-A-N-N-O-V-E-M-E-Rcom, m-o-f-r-p-ncom. I would love to see states across the nation work with us to model what we're doing. We also have some grant money that we're using to help people pay for copays or deductibles different things because we do not want any barrier financial or otherwise to get in the way of you getting the help that you have earned and deserve.

Speaker 2:

M-O-F-R-P-N dot com. I don't know my police alphabet as well as you do, so I'm going to.

Speaker 3:

Oh, that's actually military.

Speaker 2:

Military. I still don't know my alphabet alphabet really well, I just knew oscar. But anyway, yes, I will put that in the show notes. I hope people do that. Um, would love to hear from other states in regards to that, including. I've worked with florida on that.

Speaker 2:

Washington has a program like that too, and definitely I'm working on something in the state of Massachusetts with a bunch of other great people, so we'd love to hear from them. And obviously, beth, it was too short. Hopefully we can do this one more time or a couple more times. It'd be great, maybe even to get people from different states and just sit together and record it for a podcast and let people know about all these great resources.

Speaker 3:

Can I also plug my website?

Speaker 2:

No, we're out of time. I'm sorry, I'm going to cut off.

Speaker 3:

So it's wwwtlc, which stands for thin line counseling, dash help, h-e-l-pcom, tlc-helpcom. So if you want to reach out to me, if you have any questions, even if you're not in Missouri and Illinois, I'm licensed in both states Even if you're not in those states and you're just looking to get some information, I'm happy to help you.

Speaker 2:

I will put that also in the short show notes, because that's really important to have. So you know, beth, I want to thank you. If there's anything else you want to plug, please do. But I encourage you to go to our website and encourage you to go to mofrpncom, and I really hope I have.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, it was such a pleasure to be on the show. And everybody, take care of yourselves and be well.

Speaker 2:

Well, this completes episode 204. Thank you so much, Beth.

Speaker 1:

And I hope you join struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue. Please reach out to a professional counselor for consultation. If you are in a mental health crisis, call 988 for assistance. This number is available in the United States and Canada.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Steve Bisson

Host
Head Shot

Courtney Romanowski

Co-host
Head Shot

Beth Salmo

Guest