MarPro - The Marketing Procurement Podcast

Kaleigh Wilson | Syngenta

May 30, 2021 Rusty Pepper - Dana Small - Kaleigh Wilson Episode 1
Kaleigh Wilson | Syngenta
MarPro - The Marketing Procurement Podcast
More Info
MarPro - The Marketing Procurement Podcast
Kaleigh Wilson | Syngenta
May 30, 2021 Episode 1
Rusty Pepper - Dana Small - Kaleigh Wilson

On this episode of MarPro – The Marketing Procurement Podcast we sit down with Kaleigh Wilson, a Marketing Procurement Category Manager at Syngenta to discuss her perspective on the MarPro topic, including…

  • The blending of traditional & digital marketing
  • Structure & goal alignment of MarPro teams 
  • Why the word ‘savings’ should be replaced with ‘value’
  • Explaining the difference between Strategic Sourcing and Purchasing
  • Defining KPI’s to measure success with vendor partnerships
  • How salespeople can break thru the noise in order to get noticed within MarPro 
  • Reducing & eliminating bottlenecks in MarPro activities 

SHARE
LIKE
FOLLOW

 

 

 

 

Show Notes Transcript

On this episode of MarPro – The Marketing Procurement Podcast we sit down with Kaleigh Wilson, a Marketing Procurement Category Manager at Syngenta to discuss her perspective on the MarPro topic, including…

  • The blending of traditional & digital marketing
  • Structure & goal alignment of MarPro teams 
  • Why the word ‘savings’ should be replaced with ‘value’
  • Explaining the difference between Strategic Sourcing and Purchasing
  • Defining KPI’s to measure success with vendor partnerships
  • How salespeople can break thru the noise in order to get noticed within MarPro 
  • Reducing & eliminating bottlenecks in MarPro activities 

SHARE
LIKE
FOLLOW

 

 

 

 

Dana:

Hello, and welcome to the first and premier edition of the Mar pro podcast, where we discuss all things, marketing procurement, and one of your co-hosts Dana small and marketing procurement professional by trade. You may know me from my blogs at Ms. Category management.com. I'm joined by my co-host and marketing Maven, Mr. Rusty pepper, which you may already know him from the wide marketing podcast. So rusty, how's it going? First podcast.

Rusty:

I cannot be more excited. Seriously. This has been a long time coming. We've had lots of back and forth behind the scenes that people will never know about the conversations, the frustrations of getting a podcast,

Kaleigh:

all the battles,

Dana:

the battles over logos, then good

Rusty:

things, design schemes, intro music, all that good stuff. And this fortuitous because marketing procurement disagreeing battling, sometimes there was quite a gap. Over time, we found a way to bridge it and get this podcast going, which I think is really going to be great for the

Kaleigh:

audience. Yeah, I'm definitely excited.

Dana:

So it's our first episode and let's talk with our first guests, Ms. Kaley Wilson from Sygenta today. We're going to discuss with her just her perspective on bridging the gap between marketing procurement and building relationship with suppliers.

Rusty:

So Kaylee, welcome to the Mar pro pocket.

Kaleigh:

Hey, everyone. I'm really excited beyond today as well. This is my first podcast. So a lot of firsts today, but yeah, my name is Kaylee Wilson. I'm currently in Raleigh, North Carolina from the Michigan area. So really excited to be joining you guys today to talk a little bit more about marketing. Awesome. So go green or go blue. You're Michigan, right? Go green. Okay. Yes. Go green. Yes. I had to ask, you had to ask it's a big difference, right? I'm from the Midwest. So

Dana:

that's awesome. So why don't you give us a little bit of background about you and your story career of how you got into

Kaleigh:

marketing. Yeah. Awesome. I'd love to. So speaking of go green. I remember back to when I first went to college, actually, I was thinking about this earlier, when you had asked the question, I was thinking through it, I was like, you know what? A lot of life is just these little thin threads, right? Like where we end up is just based on very little things that kind of get you there. So for me, when I was going to Michigan state, I was just excited to go to Michigan state. I didn't really know what I mean. The study, but I remember I was really into interior decorating and designing at the time. I thought it was, my house would not reflect that at the moment, but so I was like, yeah, I want to do interior design. And I remember the, the lady that was doing the tours that day said, oh, we don't have that major here. And I was like, oh, and just lists. I switched. I was like, oh, forget that. I'm not doing that anymore. I want to be at Michigan state. And so I was like, what do I want to do? And I was like, I've always wanted to one day own my own business. And I was like, I'll do business. That makes sense. And then there's a long path kind of, of how I chose there's five majors within our business college. And I ended up going supply chain. And then through that, just conversations where I was like supply chain is great because I'm always trying to do a, to see, forget, be like, let's just get there the fastest. I'm always trying to save money, be more efficient. So that's just kinda how I ended up in this realm. And then procurement just fell into my lap through different internships I had in the procurement space. And I started off my career in procurement consult. So I absolutely love that. It gave me a really broad, just understanding about procurement in general. I learned that in depth about procurement, I had the opportunity to work with just subject matter experts in all different categories and we've worked across industries and it was just a really intense, deep dive into procurement. So I did that for a handful of years. And then again, another thin thread, a marketing procurement position opened. And I was like, Hey, marketing sounds awesome. I love the creative aspect of it. I think this would be a good category to deep dive into. And that's how I'm here today. So I've now I've been in marketing procurement for going on three years. So I haven't been in that, this kind of specific role that long, but I've really enjoyed it. I love the creative aspect of it. So it's been a, it's been a fun ride. It's been a good roller coaster that I've been on in terms of marketing.

Rusty:

Yeah. And you start off on the software side when you got into marketing procurement hat. Yeah, absolutely. What was that like now that you're at Syngenta, which is not softwares specifically, how did that help prepare you for

Kaleigh:

your current role? A lot of ways, one, like I said, it was my first kind of immersement into marketing procurement, but for me it was. I think the biggest thing is just being able to always be alert lifelong learner. So I was just excited to learn more about what red hat was doing in that space. And it, it took a lot of just listening to the stakeholders, learning more about their space, but it's very, it's fast paced. You're constantly go. So I did. And you're right. There was a lot of software involved, so a lot of marketing kind of software it in that space. Soak that all in. And I think the coolest thing about switching industries has been learning about the nuances and the different types of marketing and really just learning that every marketing organization is vastly different. So you've just got to, anytime you move to a new company or a new position, you've just gotta be ready to continue to learn because they're not all the same. There's a lot of differences. There are some similarities for sure, but a lot of differences as well. So learned a lot from that, the fast paced environment, we had some incredible marketers at red hat that I got to learn from, which was a really great. Kind of kickstart to my marketing procurement. You find that

Dana:

having that it background super helpful with MarTech and everything going on and marketing procurement, like you almost need to have a little bit of it either help, or I guess you have the background for it,

Kaleigh:

which is super advantageous, right? Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. And honestly, one thing I appreciated about being in that space was learning. And it is great, but I appreciated marketing procurement even more because I was like being an it category manager. Oh my goodness. Like kudos to them because that every category is so different, but that one is just ever changing and just the complexities of learning all the scopes and specs of all the it and trying to figure out how they all integrate. It's really, it's truly a puzzle. It's like spaghetti. You're trying to figure out how it's all working together. So I did enjoy that, but I was also like, Appreciate that I've got other, other things within this space, not just it focused because those category managers have a lot to deal with. And honestly, that's something that I've found in this marketing procurement space is what does go to it. Category managers, and then what does fall under marketing? And that's been interesting to see too, even at red hat that differentiating what falls, where, and then now moving over into the agriculture space at Syngenta it's even different. So I, I love, and I appreciate my it category manager colleagues, for sure. So do you typically take over some of the Mar tech stuff or do you pass

Dana:

it off? Like I know certain projects for me, at least that are very it focus versus having that marketing thread. I will pass them over. I'm like, I'm more than happy. I'm more than happy to. ITP. Here's the it stuff. It,

Kaleigh:

suppliers have not a huge fan of them because they're really tough to deal

Dana:

with. But yeah. Do you find like sometimes

Kaleigh:

you just join forces or do you find sometimes you just want to pass it

Dana:

off or what's your approach or do you guys have no

Kaleigh:

process to it? No, that's a great question. I guess in my current role, it's more so a pass off. Like we'll collaborate a little bit together. I w I always want to know what's going on in those spaces. So even if I pass it off, I'm like, Hey, keep me in the loop. Let me get the final agreement. Let me make sure I know what's going on because I want to know everything that's going on within the marketing space. But I do find that they've got the, they've got the right language. They've got all the negotiating power. They just have all that knowledge. And it's, it truly is in my opinion, a hold of. Kind of skillset to learn and marketing in and of itself is a puzzle too. So just being able to be able to pass some of that over the fence to them, but at the end of the day, being familiar with what the end negotiation was, what we have access to. Because for me in marketing, I want to, as a procurement category manager, I want to be the umbrella over all of marketing, Syngenta, actually, most companies I've worked for, they have a lot of different marketing groups going on and I want to be able to let them know, Hey. You're looking for this type of service or help in this space or whatever it might be. We know that we're actually using this over here. So I think it would be a disservice if I didn't at least know what was going on, but to be able to utilize them for the actual digging in and negotiating and building out that contract to make sure that we're protected and have all the language and. But that's been incredible. And that's something that at both red hat and Syngenta have been able to do, but red hat, it was more so at the beginning, it was all within marketing. But as I built out those relationships a bit more, we started to realize, Hey, there's a lot going on in the marketing space. It might not be best to manage all things. Let's take advantage of our colleagues and split that out where needed.

Dana:

So speaking about digital and marketing, interestingly enough, in our conversation in the agriculture industry, you guys, aren't a truly like moving towards everything, all digital, you explain it to me, how it really is traditional media rules, the roost. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about that? Because to me, it's coming from my side where everything's moving. If we could go all digital, we would, it's interesting to hear that there is still a ton of traditional media

Kaleigh:

being focused on. Yeah, absolutely. I think digital is absolutely the push. I wouldn't say that's different anywhere, but to completely eliminate all traditional, I don't, especially in this space, but I think in a lot of injuries industries, I love to connect with other marketing procurement colleagues and other industries. And I, I hear the same thing elsewhere. Like you can't, there's a lot of value in having traditional marketing. Especially in the agriculture space. Yeah. Like promotional goods. They farmers love to wear their baseball caps. So that's never going to go away. And it's just a great way to be able to do branding. They love physical. They love to be able to read a magazine, pick up a catalog, see things in their hands. And I don't think that's something that's just going to disappear. Radio is still very much a huge thing in that space. So a lot more of that traditional type marketing. I don't really see it going away. I see there of course, needing to be evolution in shifting. To more digital, but without kind of completely eliminating the print space, our more traditional types of,

Rusty:

because you can also hyper-personalized those touchpoints. When you look at traditional marketing, crappy traditional marketing can go away. The good one is what really matters. If you're, if it's good, it's still very relevant. Oh, for sure. And those touch points are so.

Kaleigh:

And what's interesting to me too, is even through COVID the whole virtual event space and events, both com both of those companies were huge on in-person events and building that culture and having that environment, sometimes that culture trumps strategy all day. So being able to have that environment and have people actually face-to-face, I don't know. Obviously last year, it fell back. But I see us bouncing back into that and with that comes the promotional goods and the print boards and things like that. So a lot of that more in-person traditional. I don't think it, I think it'll shift and evolve, but I don't think it's ever going to fully go away. At least not in some of these different industries, like we're talking about.

Dana:

Yeah, from my perspective and pharma, it's interesting. Cause we're

Kaleigh:

trying to go

Dana:

all digital, right? We've got these books, physician desk reference that are huge books on all the drugs and encyclopedias and things, and we're trying to get everything online. And so from my perspective, Scott, if we can do this, I'm assuming in other industries, we're going to do the same thing, but to hear Nope, farmer needs, his

Kaleigh:

hat really can

Dana:

bring that back home. We know there's been a shift that digital for the first time is more, there's more spend there

Kaleigh:

than traditional, but I think this really speaks to why traditional is

Dana:

still going around. And to Rusty's point too, you have these personalized touch points that maybe you can't do as well in digital. I don't know. What's your thoughts on that rest day?

Rusty:

Firstly, I'm a big fan of hyper personalized outreach, whether that's online or offline. You mean, take out omni-channel for instances, if I'm searching for a pet product online, everywhere I go after I do that, my intent information is out there and a bunch of digital ads would be served up to me. And then maybe a few days later, I'm going to get some direct mail and run them a couple of different providers that are going to provide a call to action, whether it's a coupon or discount code to drive either to their bricks and mortar, retail location, or online to complete that purchase. So definitely there's really exciting time. Now, let's talk about where you sit within the organization. Now, obviously you're marking procurement. So your procurement function, but where do you sit? You sit with the marketing team at Syngenta, or do you sit with the procurement and then you just meet with them?

Kaleigh:

I love that question because I sit inside of procurement. So indirect procurement, we actually don't even flow up. And this is not just a Syngenta specific. I've had this at the past few companies. And even some of the groups that we did consulting for my first career, first role out of college, but we're S we don't even flow up to the same leadership in a lot of cases. So I think that sometimes that adds a really interesting dynamic when you're not part of the marketing team, but for me, I've never, I try not to look at it like that because for me not to be corny or anything, but it's all about relationships and building that trust in anything. But especially when you're working with marketers who are passionate, they're creative, they know what they're doing. They love their space and they love their ability to create and be free and do all the different things that they want to do. It's more creative. So for me, it's been a lot about, yes, I under this line of management and I'm in indirect procurement, but I want to be integrated. I want to be part of your team. So anytime I've transitioned into new roles, I've really slowed down to try to speed up and really worked to build those relationships. And sometimes I think it's about listening to understand and not always to reply. So like at the beginning, I'm like, I don't want to come in and tell you, this is how you need to do X, Y, and Z, because you know what you're doing. I just want to be able to help get you there and help bring value to what you're doing and really partner. So regardless of who my reporting structure is, I think a lot of times that's what I get. A little bit frustrated about corporate is we're all working for the same company. At the end of the day. We all want the same thing, a paycheck, and to be successful in our space. And we've got overall our companies wanting to thrive and survive and in an Excel, but then we're, we have different kind of year end reports and year end kind of KPIs that we're all working towards and they don't always align. So because of that, it pulls us, it misaligns us. And so for me, it's been a lot of times about how do I figure out. What your goals are and how I can align with what you have. And then tie that into, I can work with my leadership. I can work on my, my end of year performance and show the value kind of value beyond savings, all those different things that kind of come with my role, but it's been, how do I integrate? And how do you feel like I am part of your team and a true partnership, not just, oh, here's procurement. We need to go through them for, to make sure we're following policy or whatever it might be. And some of my positions,

Dana:

I think it was back at Amgen. We actually tried to align our annual.

Kaleigh:

With some of the marketing goals. So they

Dana:

felt like we're really trying to get that a stake in the game and get you guys to have the best ROI to have the best creative they have the best

Kaleigh:

thing. Have you seen that in your career? Yeah, I think it's, I think it's an ongoing thing and an ongoing conversation. And like I said before, I kind of network a lot. Some marketing procurement and other industries. And we've got this little group that we work on together and it's not like you're saying now we all have the same kind of challenges that we faced. I was reading this book buying less for less. And it's about marketing for Karen. So if you guys haven't, I don't know if you guys have read that before, but a colleague of mine recommended it. It's a really awesome book and it really talks about. Aligning on what those missions are and what those goals are. And sometimes it's not even, I think, changing what your different objectives are for the year, but just rewording it. Savings is not a fun word to bring to the table with marketing. They, that scares them. They savings is just, you're going to cut my budgets. Like I'm going

Rusty:

cheap auto. So that's what I'd be doing to give you a crappy, a supplier that doesn't believe in what we're doing and they're going to make it more than.

Kaleigh:

Exactly. And I read this analogy actually in this book, but it's like, who looks at the price of copper per pound and decides to go with that because it's cheaper than the price of price per pound of silver. Like it's a different value. So we really have to look at the value and what that value is bringing versus the costs. And I think when you come in with the word savings, like that's just scary and it's, you're just going to come in and cut costs. And that's where having a procurement organization versus a strategic sourcing organization and making sure that you are. Communicating the right thing is maybe you're not really at the end of the day, doing anything different, but you're communicating it in a different way to really be able to build those partnerships and that trust to be able to come to the end goals of, yeah, we need to cut costs. We need to make sure that we're getting fair market value, that we're getting the best return, but let's not say savings. Let's say return on investments. Let's say value beyond savings. And there's so much that procurement does besides bring savings. Right? Contractually we're mitigating. We're making sure that we're getting the best return on our marketing dollars, all that kind of stuff. So just being able to shift the conversation and make sure that we're speaking the marketing language and listening to what their needs are and what their goals are and making sure we're aligning with that. It's not necessarily that we're not, we're moving away from our objectives of savings, targets and things like that, but we're aligning that. Um, so that we can have that true partnership.

Rusty:

Yeah. We always use return on impressions from a marketer speak versus return on investment is what you're typically say on the procurement side. Now you mentioned strategic sourcing organization versus procurement. Explain

Kaleigh:

that. Procure and this book talked about it and you hear procurements evolve so much over the years from when it first got started, it was truly a cost savings initiative. It was how can we make sure that we're cutting costs and things like that, but as procurement has evolved, and I think the marketing space might be a little bit like lagging on the evolution, but we're getting there, but it's so evolved into. In terms of just cost savings and coming in and buying. I think when I think of procurement, sometimes I think of a buyer and you're going out and you're just buying items. And in the direct space, I think that's a little bit more relevant, but in the indirect space that that's not the, that's not all that you're looking for. You're really looking for the best value for your money and things like that. So it takes more of shifting away from buying. And just when I think procurement, I think just think people traditionally think of a buyer shifting that into strategic sourcing now. Just to me, it brings more value to the word, but it also brings more depth to it. We're not just buying something we're going out and sourcing. And we're strategically doing that in strategically, meaning we're not just our procurement looking at what our needs and goals are. We're being strategic about it. And we're strategizing with our marketing team or with our stakeholders to make sure that we're really aligned on what our objectives are and what our needs are. Coming out of that. So price being one thing, but we talked about before Dana, you and I talked about KPIs and things like that. There's so much more beyond savings and costs that we can bring to the table. So that's where that strategic sourcing comes into play, in my opinion. And I think that's one of the

Dana:

things that drives me nuts. Marketing. They do think they call us all procurement and they don't realize there's like a clear pathway procurement. You're actually just buying the stuff. That's how I view it. Then strategic sourcing. You're taking a look at the bigger picture. What are we buying internally? What are we buying externally? Who are we buying it from? How are we have a big of a player? Are we in the game? And you really got to take that all into effect, right? To say what's the best category strategy for whatever agencies,

Kaleigh:

media, et cetera. And then thinking about category

Dana:

management, what's the SRM afterwards? What are we going to do? Make sure they don't like, as we talked before, get the B team. Marketers are a little divas love, like to say, but I'm going to get the B team. I can't use their agency. And that's one of the things that I think if you think procurement, yeah. Somebody who's just buying something. Of course, they're not going to be able to help you with that. But if you understand the value and kind of why we consider ourselves strategic sourcing and. Um, just buyers. There's a huge difference.

Kaleigh:

And I don't know about you, but I think early on in my career, I was like,

Dana:

don't call me procurement. But I think now it's just a generic word. When you think about it, you do you roll up to a CPO or the CFO I've always rolled up to a CFO. I'm not sure if you've had a CPO, but at the end of the day, it is what it is. Yes. We're buying stuff, but we're trying to do it with a little bit more.

Kaleigh:

Don't call us procurement again. Yep. No,

Rusty:

no, but that's it. I think it's important because the whole point of this is just to try to we're bridging the gap. The whole premise of the podcast was Dana looks at it from strategic sourcing because I'm not going to say the word procurement. I'm

Kaleigh:

looking at it from

Rusty:

a marketing, a sales perspective. And I sit there and go, okay, it's having that understanding because I think at the end of the day, We all have the same ultimate goal and that's to do best for the company that we've worked for. Now, we may have measured differently and all that. And I think that's actually a conversation too, that needs to be discussed is how do you get more alignment between what the measurements are between marketing and your procurement teams, especially when it's marketing procurement. I think they should be aligned a lot more

Dana:

closely. It does lead us into another question because we are talking about or cureman or sourcing's position. It's insure like marketers don't get the B team. A lot of the times we'll hear. Yeah. I can't use their agency in a different brand because we're afraid we're not the bigger amount of spin we're going to get the B team. And I think my response to them has been well, that's our job. And you have the same kind of thought pattern

Kaleigh:

Ray at about that. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's, there's a lot of different folds to that. Like I've had marketers come to me before and say, I just onboarded a vendor. And then it's two months later and they're like, it's not working out. This relationship is awful. Like, how do we take them off of our vendor list? I'm like, no, we just brought them on board. But some of that is not engaging. Procurement or strategic sourcing early on and figuring out how I'm not trying to just bring vendors on just to bring them on. I want to build partnerships. So how can we make it not just successful for us, but for that vendor as well. And I think all of that comes to really defining that relationship upfront. And there's a lot of ways to be able to do that. And one, we talked about key performance indicators, service level agreements, all those things, making sure that when we start that engagement, I'm asking my marketers, I'm saying, what does a successful. Engagement look like for this, what is a good outcome? What would you be happy with at the end of the day? And how are you going to measure that? And I'm saying, okay, let's make sure that we're one communicating that to the vendor, supplier, whatever. However we want to call that. But then also we're putting it in writing because it's one thing to have a conversation and agree up front and have some emails about it. But we know people change companies all day long and different. Our memories are short, so let's make sure that we. Not to be stingy or stringent, but let's make sure we have it in writing. And we build out key performance indicators and on both sides, what are your deliverables? But then also what does this vendor need from us to be able to be successful, to be able to get things done in a timely manner. Let's agree on that upfront and make sure that we're adhering to it. But in terms of that B team, I think the key performance indicators are big, but also being able to build out year-end reviews. Yes, you may be a small fish in a big pond for an agency, but you're still paying them and you still need to get the value out of your dollars and you still are a client of theirs. We'll need to be able to, it doesn't matter if you're smaller, big for them, you still need to be able to get what you're paying for. So I think some of these things upfront, like KPIs building in year-end reviews is really important. That's something I've found, especially with our bigger vendors, but smaller vendors as well. Hey, let's agree to meet maybe annually or biannually and come together and do a review. And that's not one way. So that's both sides as procurement. This is where some value add comes in for us. Strategic sourcing is, Hey, let me manage that. You guys have the day-to-day relationship. It can be a little awkward and a little sticky to greet each other and put each other on a scorecard. Let me manage. I'll be an outside perspective, looking at, I can send out anonymous year-end review scorecards, where you guys can really give true feedback. I'll compile them, I'll bring them together. And then we'll have a constructive conversation at the end of the year to say, Hey, this is what went well, this is what didn't go so well. Do good, do different and stay the same type review and let's come together and agree on that. So I think to answer long way to answer your question is really aligning on what does a successful relationship look like and how do you keep those vendors accountable for what we agreed upon smaller, big client of theirs, just to make sure we're getting that bad. Do you think that really pulls

Dana:

upon like more of the strategic sourcing aspect of what we do? So when you think about direct sourcing, that's huge, right? You need to, if you're, you're doing direct procurement, you really need to make sure that your partners, you guys are aligned simpatico. Right? You've got to make sure that the quality's there. If you're producing a widget, you gotta make sure it's this marketing. I don't think they think of it in those terms, or most people don't think of, cause there's not like quality of output, right? It's not, you're not producing a widget. It's nothing tangible. And I think having that experience and knowing, Hey, you can take something from tangible to intangible and still track and measure. Like you said, what is your goal? What does good look like? W we need to know so that we know at the end of the gauge been, did we pick the right people? But I think having that strategic sourcing pull through to marketing, although it's a little bit different, I think it's a key difference that really can help them get what they need the most out of the marketing marketers and from the agency.

Kaleigh:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's one thing I've learned about this marketing space, as well as specifications. When you talk about a statement of work and building up scope, they're not fixed. They're fluid, they're variable. They're changing at the end of the day. It's not apples to apples. Like we always, we love news, apples to apples. It's not like. You may say, Hey, I want this email campaign gone out and I need content for it. There's so many different components that can go into it that make it non apples to apples. It makes it really hard to compare and even calculate savings or cost avoidance or anything like that, because it's, it can vary so much and maybe somebody's cost is higher. Yeah. If they're being able to add additional value and create creativeness to, and they're actually being, they're bringing that kind of, that strategy to the table versus saying, Hey, you, as our client, tell us what you need. We're just go do it. They're more not, yes, men. Yes. Women. They're more being strategic and building that out. It's hard to measure and it's hard to really come up with a true spec. So a lot of times I tell my marketing colleagues, I'm like, Hey, we're going to spend most of the time of this project. At the front end, defining what we want and defining the scope. And it may seem tedious, but longer term, it's going to give us a better output and we're going to be working more on the front end to not have to work, fix things on the ladder. Yeah,

Rusty:

I think that's a smart approach to it is more time you invest upfront prep planning, accelerates the backend so much easier. I'm going to ask some questions for folks in marketing entails. How do suppliers breakthrough with more tech specifically, there were so many products. I would hate to be in your shoes with the inbound number of solicitations emails, phone calls, social media messaging, all the things that are happening, what separates the people that are breaking through versus the ones that aren't.

Kaleigh:

Y'all I know you guys know I live in North Carolina now I've used y'all but you guys, this is all

Rusty:

the time. That's why I'm texting.

Kaleigh:

I just, I don't know. It's different, but I, I enjoy it's easier. Why would you say you guys are you all when you do y'all okay. It's much more efficient. Okay. But that's a huge thing for me lately is I don't know if somebody like leaked my Syngenta email, but I have been getting so many messages from vendors saying personally, Hey, Kaylee, this, that, and the other. And. I can feel for them. So I respond. And so I'm really hoping that with this podcast, I'm not now getting even more people coming in and saying, oh my God use this, but I appreciate the reach out. And I categorize and folder it, but it is tough. And I, that's why I empathize a lot with suppliers because. There's a lot of them out there, and there's a lot of different things going on and to be able to earn that business and be able to even get a foot in the door, I feel like can sometimes be a challenge. I've never been on that side of the house thankfully, but I can see how it would be for them so I can totally understand and empathize with that. I think a lot of it is. You know that putting themselves out there and doing the reach out don't nag. If I don't respond to you, it's okay to follow, but do not put you like, forget it. That's so annoying

Rusty:

asking, Hey, what do you consider spam? So let's talk about the frequency

Dana:

when somebody emails you, and it says, Paula, I got one of those the other day and I was like, When they get your name completely wrong when you've come in from a CRM system and it's just copy and paste those automatically just go delete for me. It's somebody who does their homework. If you take the time, the 20 minutes and research my industry or research who I am, what I mean? And you can bring something to the table. To me, those are the people I typically respond to at least where they're like, Hey, I saw your blog or, Hey, I saw this and I think it might actually work because X, Y, and Z, we have this product and it might work at your business because of, and if they don't bring that, if they're just like, I have this and I'm selling like, yo. But what's what differentiates you, right? What's your value prop? Like why do I care? Why do I want to talk to you? What do you bring into the table? And I think the people who do their homework from the sales side really that it may take more time up front, but it pays off in the long-term because those are at least the people I typically. We'll respond to, even if I don't want to talk to them, if they have something funny or, you know, something interesting, those are the people who I'll respond to from this

Kaleigh:

sales group perspective. And I think keeping that's huge, personalizing it, making sure you're doing your homework and you're not just cause. People reach out before I'm like, that's not even relevant to what we would be. It's just doesn't fit. But also keeping the initial outreach short and sweet. I will read your email, but I don't have time to read all the bullets and hear all the things, but just like you said, personalize it, my preference, honestly. 10 minute call. Like I don't, we don't need a full half hour, like just have a quick discussion because I think some of it too, you see a vendor's name, you go Google them and you're like, okay, what do you do? Like your website is so broad and I still don't know what you do. Like, I that's been my hardest thing. I feel like about. The strategic sourcing is identifying vendors and what they actually do. I wish they were just bulleted out, like specifically we do X, Y, and Z, but

Dana:

sometimes they do multiple things. Right? So you don't, you're like what portion of the business are you coming from that you're

Kaleigh:

trying to pitch me when I get it. It's like a resume, right? You're not just going to say I saved X amount of dollars. You're going to, I efficiently strategically, blah, blah, blah. I get it. I understand that. But it makes it really, maybe I'm just more simple minded and I don't know if you see it in your industry,

Dana:

but then pharmaceuticals,

Kaleigh:

anytime. We have somebody who has past experience, like in a

Dana:

disease state or past

Kaleigh:

experience in pharma. That's huge. What can you do for us? So I think just the initial outreach saying, Hey, let's hop on a quick call, 10, 15 minutes, initial preliminary. I'm here for that. I'm all about it. But if I've got to do my own digging and research and read through a page where. I can't,

Rusty:

it makes sense because there is a lot of noise out there and the problem is from a marketer's perspective, we over-complicate the process. We try to make it sound fancier or sexier than it really needs to when really it's just, Hey, this is what we do. This is the problem. It solves. If it fits, let's engage and try to make that a little bit easier. How do you help solve problems for people that are in your shoe that are getting all this. Because at the end of the day, you're there to try to sift through for marketing. What are the tools that we really need? Because you may find it. Hey, we've got to find an ABM. Yep. You're not out there

Dana:

publishing and they need to know regulations, things of that sort. So I've actually had a conversation and it took me two years with a supplier who said, I have X brand hemophilia let's talk. And we talked and the. Went through our fees and RFPs. And finally, two years later he won the business, but it was him saying, listen, we have hemophilia experience. We're no longer on that. So there's no competition issue, but we really still enjoy this disease. So you think we can help you guys would love to be a part of it? That to me, it was like, okay, let's do this. I want to talk to you. I don't, it's not just, Hey, I can help you with marketing. Okay, great. But I'll tell people, send me stuff ahead of time. Send me. Packet of overview or whatever you can, a capabilities presentation and where you guys have experienced and where you think you would want to fit in and talk to write that. That's my other issue. Okay. If you don't have brand experience with what we have, then where do you think you would fit in? Where do you think, who do you want to talk to? You want to talk to somebody, but who do you want to talk to? We, our brands are so different. Do you see that

Kaleigh:

too? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think being able to connect them with the right cause I'm procurement. Yes. I have an understanding of what we're looking for in our needs, but at the end of the day, the marketers are going to be the ones who really know. So if I can at least have a ongoing list or maybe I have a. Conversation with a vendor. And I say, you know what? This could be a good fit. I know when their team meetings are, let me run it by them and see if it would be good. I want to connect them with the marketers to really get a feel for Kendall. Does their spec does their scope of what they can do? Does it, would it fit with what we're doing? And then let's have a further conversation.

Rusty:

So when you break down the whole marketing category, we all know it's a big, complicated, wide ranging category with new. Pretty much being added to everyday. So at what point, uh, Kayla, do you see it becoming too expansive where certain services like data and digital start falling outside of the marketing procurement function and start creating their own procurement?

Kaleigh:

I think one thing I've noticed just in my different roles is I talked about at the beginning, relationships are the biggest thing. And being able to really build that relationship and partnership with marketing wall. One thing I've also, it's a double edged sword because as you build that relationship and you get to know all the different marketers and things like that, and you do build that trust and you've had some success on projects to know, Hey, Let's use procurement it's okay. No, we're actually, there's a lot coming. Like you said, there's a lot of different things within marketing procurement that range from complexity and different things like that. Like how do you manage that? And for me, I personally see it as a way for us as procurement individuals, to be able to talk to our leadership and say, Hey, now we're getting more, the relationships built. We have more scope. We have more people coming to us. This is awesome. We can't manage it. If it's one of us or two of us, we need to be able to build out. We need to be able to support them at the pace that they're coming to us. And I think that's really key and being able to build out a marketing procurement team, if it gets to that point is really crucial because you don't want to build those relationships, have some success and then get overwhelmed and not be able to still support and then lose that trust over time. So I think it's being able to communicate efficiently with your leadership and procurement and say, Hey, here's some wins. Here are some good things going on. But my bandwidth, my everything is shrink. Like I don't have as much time anymore to do all the things. So I either need to prioritize and you need just let me know what I need to push back and not take, or we need to grow. And I think we need to grow with the relationship, if that makes sense, a

Rusty:

hundred percent. And as we start to wind down the podcast, one question for you, what drives you crazy?

Dana:

From marketing. Are you asking her what drives her crazy from market?

Rusty:

Yeah, I guess I should probably distinguish that from a marketing procurement standpoint. Not just like personal or anything like that.

Kaleigh:

Just, I was like, it's gloomy outside. That kind of drives me crazy, but Ooh, that is a good question. I think w like anytime I've started a new role, At the beginning drives me. Not, I wouldn't say crazy, but his hurdle to overcome is that whole perception of procurement and not wanting a lot of times you feel like an outcast. You feel like the, like you said earlier, I'd pull up PC. Probably not the best thing to say. Good cop, bad cop, but you do just call what it is your background. Exactly. If my dad's a cop, it's all good. The bad cop. And that's really how you feel. And it does at the beginning, it gets a little bit. Exhausting to go out and build those relationships. But I think that is long-term, what's going to make things fruitful and successful, but I think it does get tiring hearing. And the book I mentioned, you see blog posts all the time about sorry about that, but all the time about procurement and not wanting to work with procurement and. Let's get, it makes you feel like, oh shoot, nobody likes procurement, but I think we have an opportunity to really build up and change. And like I said, procurement's evolving over time. It's not been around that long. And even strategic sourcing is getting it's more and more evolving every day. So let's continue to build up that and change the perspective. And that's the whole reason for this podcast. Right? Close the gap and change that perspective of what procurement is and that bad relationship between the two. And let's get rid of that because that, that can be exhausting.

Rusty:

Yeah. Because when it works, I imagine it's fantastic. It's it's magic. Right. And when you get it, it's the synergy everybody's aligned, shared common goals. Like.

Kaleigh:

The marketers have so much to deal with on a day to day in terms of working with the agencies and working with the suppliers and really doing the go to market strategy and building out and doing their roles. I can't imagine having to deal with managing those relationships and figuring out are we competitive price wise and all that kind of stuff. It just makes sense to be able to have a counterpart, to be able to go out and manage that for you. But to getting to that point is sometimes a bit of a hurdle, but yes, like you said, once you get there. It's beautiful. It's great. It's everything works good. Your roles, you know how your, the value that you're bringing towards every relationship and everyone understands that. And it's like a well-oiled machine. It just works really well.

Rusty:

And Dana.

Kaleigh:

Yeah, I can

Dana:

mirror the sentiment that Kaylee has about them. Thinking you don't know our business, you don't understand what we're doing and you don't understand it. Price doesn't matter. It's quality, it's creative, it's this. And I think a lot of the time I've been doing it for 10 years.

Kaleigh:

I'm like, I really do understand what you're doing.

Dana:

I've written your RFPs for you. And so I do understand, so it is a little bit aggravating,

Kaleigh:

I would say at times, but. What

Dana:

really drives me crazy when people come to me way too late in the process, Hey, by the way we've got this deal was, and can you guys help us? We were trying to get the price down a bit. Can you just go back and negotiate? Like where were you? Six months ago when we could have helped you and could have gotten so much more done to show up late in the process. I'm not really doing you a big service, especially if you have. Already half negotiated contract. Like that's the other value as doing that? So when people come in way too late, it just being like, Hey, could you just negotiate this? It's just irritating because it creates so much more work on the backend for us than it does. I think if you just include us and keep us in the loop, and that probably doesn't

Rusty:

really helped with the perception that procurements the bad cop or that you're slowing down the process because well, all of us. You find yourself this unfair situation that marketing puts

Kaleigh:

you in and you become the bottleneck, but it didn't have to be the bottleneck, but now we're trying to play catch up. Now we didn't have the ability to put that into our, we've got a bunch of projects we're working on. We didn't have time to put that into our pipeline. So now it's putting a bottleneck in our pipeline, but we're looking like the bottleneck and it's, if you would engage us from the beginning, we wouldn't be playing catch up. We wouldn't be having to realign other things to try to make you hit your targets and your deadlines. Let's talk from the beginning. And I think that's being able to be integrated with the marketing teams, being able to be in there, whether it's a monthly call or a team connect every quarter or whatever it might be being able to be at a seat at those tables and engage up front, I think has been key in anything because yeah, maybe a lot of those meetings I'm just sitting in and I'm just a fly on the wall, but I am listening and I'm hearing what's going on. What needs they have that need to be accomplished. I can pipe in and say, Hey, have you guys considered this? But also I'm just I'm there at the beginning. So I think one of the biggest things we can do is just try to be as integrated as possible and in as many meetings as they have. So we're not playing catch up down the line. That's been a game changer for me the past year is just being at the seat at the table.

Rusty:

So it seems that Marquis really needs to kind of change the culture a little bit to get care, but really more aligned with them internally. Whereas the top down marketing procurement is an ally of ours. They are indirect function of our team. They are here to help us get better grip on our processes and improve existing relationships, buy new ones, and we need to extend the same courtesy that we would, any of them. Marketing or sales colleagues, if we really want them to be able to provide, provide the value that we need. And when that happens, it just needs to happen from day one.

Kaleigh:

Yes, but it's two ways. I think that it, I think the onus initially upfront is for us procurement. We need to show our value. We need to build that trust and report because not everyone has some people have more of that direct procurement, go out, cut costs, all that kind of stuff, mindset. We need to show them, Hey, we are different. We, this is how we're thinking. So it's on, in my opinion, it's on us to start to build that trust and rapport, but then yes, at some point marketing needs. Outreach their hand back out and say, Hey, let's let's partner. You know what you're talking about? I really appreciate this, but you can't effectively do your job if you're on the outskirts, trying to just keep it every once in a while. And you know that actually I wish when you had asked that question, I wish I had thought about it sooner. My biggest pet peeve is actually I think, as I'm and I'm still trying to figure out what the solution to this is, but. Upper management it's leadership in those end, not leaders that not going to get fired, but it's, it's being able to align. And this isn't just Syngenta. This is like all across the board align on what those priorities and those goals are because at the end of the day, we're all budding heads over. Your end goals and really being able to come to the table and align that. And I think that falls a lot on us too, as, as on the ground workers is just being able to say, Hey, show them like, Hey, this is what let's readdress some of these, our priorities and make sure that we're actually fitting into. And it comes down to us being able to figure out what marketing's goals are. Every organization's a bit different, how are they measuring success? And then being able to communicate that to our leadership, to make sure that from. Tops down, we are aligned, but then from a bottoms up, we're communicating. So I think it goes both ways. Being able to build out to make sure that we are moving in the same direction, because it does drive me a bit crazy when you're partnering, but then you're like, oh wait, maybe I'm missing my objectives. So just making sure some of those objectives are in line.

Rusty:

Well, I appreciate it. This has been really good. I think we've covered a lot of great elements of the marketing procurement world. I should just say Mar pro because that's really what it is and being the very first guest, we really appreciate you taking time and coming on, we learned a lot. We talked about traditional media versus digital. What stands out in the. People are trying to get the attention of a marketing Fairmont buyer, what to do, what not to do, how do they distinguish themselves? And the alignment between marketing and sales. Hopefully this podcast will be a big step towards helping to bridge that gap where we can have a lot more collaborative and open conversations between both groups, because at the end of the. Success is what matters. If one group is successful, the other group should benefit from that as well. So thank you for coming on gain. Anything else that you want to throw out there before we wrap it up?

Dana:

No, thanks.

Kaleigh:

I just wanna say thanks to Kaylee for being such a

Dana:

great animated person on our first podcast and be in our little Guinea big.

Kaleigh:

We really appreciate your flexibility. No worries. I am. I'm always excited. This is my career. So I'm passionate, excited to talk about it and continue to build and grow and understand. So I appreciate you guys taking the time. I've learned a lot as well, just in pre-conversations and during this about the space. And I think it's important to always continue to learn and grow as well. So thank you guys for the time and for inviting me on it's been great.

Rusty:

Is there any other topics that you think that would be relevant for us to be able to dig into with one of our future?

Kaleigh:

Got it. No, that's great. I think continuing the conversation about the relationship building and alignment is huge. And for me, what I'm still trying to understand and wrap my head around more is what does that alignment look? How do we measure? And when you start to get more aligned and, and work more towards with the marketing, it's like, How do you measure savings? How do you put a value to that? Because it's not always apples to apples. So I just think being able to keep getting nitty gritty on the, how tos and what the outcome is and how to actually measure the output of what we're doing and how we're driving value beyond savings as big. But how do you, at the end of the day, you still gotta make. So, how are you measuring it? I'll tune it. I would love to keep learning and figuring it out and I'm still exploring that space. So I think that would be a great place to dive into more. That's great.

Rusty:

That's an area that we'll definitely be exploring, so we appreciate it. I'm looking forward to definitely staying in touch and thanks again for being the very first guest here.

Kaleigh:

Thanks for having me. Thanks guys.