{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":51.109,"endTime":53.839,"body":"So I want to get"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":51.109,"endTime":53.839,"body":"across the idea that even though"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":53.839,"endTime":59.149,"body":"we're talking about SMM cars,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":53.839,"endTime":59.149,"body":"they are fairytales. They don't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":59.179,"endTime":64.129,"body":"exist. So we can't use language"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":59.179,"endTime":64.129,"body":"that kind of reinforces the fact"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":64.129,"endTime":67.549,"body":"that they do, which is what you"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":64.129,"endTime":67.549,"body":"hear when you hear all of these"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":67.549,"endTime":70.429,"body":"wonderful reports about what"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":67.549,"endTime":70.429,"body":"small modules are doing are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":70.429,"endTime":73.339,"body":"supposed to be doing. They're"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":70.429,"endTime":73.339,"body":"not doing it because they don't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":73.339,"endTime":78.709,"body":"exist. These are theoretical"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":73.339,"endTime":78.709,"body":"concepts. They are designs. They"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":78.709,"endTime":82.939,"body":"are PowerPoints, they are slick"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":78.709,"endTime":82.939,"body":"marketing brochures, and none of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":82.939,"endTime":87.16900000000001,"body":"those contribute to our"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":82.939,"endTime":87.16900000000001,"body":"electrical grid."},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":87.679,"endTime":90.559,"body":"Are you speeding the"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":87.679,"endTime":90.559,"body":"energy transition? Here at the"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":90.559,"endTime":94.249,"body":"Clean Power Hour, our hosts, Tim"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":90.559,"endTime":94.249,"body":"Montague and John Weaver bring"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":94.249,"endTime":97.90899999999999,"body":"you the best in solar batteries"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":94.249,"endTime":97.90899999999999,"body":"and clean technologies every"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":97.90899999999999,"endTime":101.929,"body":"week, want to go deeper into"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":97.90899999999999,"endTime":101.929,"body":"decarbonisation? We do too."},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":102.13900000000001,"endTime":104.539,"body":"We're here to help you"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":102.13900000000001,"endTime":104.539,"body":"understand command the"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":104.539,"endTime":108.289,"body":"commercial, residential and"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":104.539,"endTime":108.289,"body":"utility, solar, wind and storage"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":108.289,"endTime":112.429,"body":"industries. So let's get to"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":108.289,"endTime":112.429,"body":"together we can speed the energy"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":112.429,"endTime":113.119,"body":"transition."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":116.54,"endTime":120.29,"body":"Today on the Clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":116.54,"endTime":120.29,"body":"Power, our nuclear energy, I'm"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":120.29,"endTime":123.44,"body":"Tim Montague, your host check"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":120.29,"endTime":123.44,"body":"out all of our content at clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":123.44,"endTime":126.95,"body":"power. hour.com Give us a rating"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":123.44,"endTime":126.95,"body":"and a review on Apple and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":126.95,"endTime":132.82999999999998,"body":"Spotify. As our listeners know,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":126.95,"endTime":132.82999999999998,"body":"the nuclear industry is on ice"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":132.82999999999998,"endTime":137.18,"body":"in the in the United States we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":132.82999999999998,"endTime":137.18,"body":"haven't commissioned, but one"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":137.21,"endTime":141.14,"body":"nuclear power plant in something"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":137.21,"endTime":141.14,"body":"like the last 30 years. There's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":141.14,"endTime":144.82999999999998,"body":"not a lot of action in nuclear,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":141.14,"endTime":144.82999999999998,"body":"the end, the nuclear engineers"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":144.82999999999998,"endTime":148.1,"body":"that I know are fleeing the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":144.82999999999998,"endTime":148.1,"body":"industry and joining wind and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":148.1,"endTime":151.7,"body":"solar because that's where the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":148.1,"endTime":151.7,"body":"growth opportunity lies. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":151.7,"endTime":157.22,"body":"yet, our government is promoting"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":151.7,"endTime":157.22,"body":"SM N RS Small Modular nuclear"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":157.22,"endTime":161.03,"body":"reactors. And so my guest today"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":157.22,"endTime":161.03,"body":"is David Kraft. He is the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":161.03,"endTime":164.06,"body":"executive director of the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":161.03,"endTime":164.06,"body":"Nuclear Energy Information"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":164.06,"endTime":167.15,"body":"Service. And he's here to set"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":164.06,"endTime":167.15,"body":"the record straight about SNN"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":167.15,"endTime":171.5,"body":"Rs, and the state of nuclear"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":167.15,"endTime":171.5,"body":"power in my home state, and his"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":171.5,"endTime":173.84,"body":"home state, the state of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":171.5,"endTime":173.84,"body":"Illinois. Welcome to the Clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":173.84,"endTime":174.8,"body":"Power Hour, Dave,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":175.19,"endTime":176.66,"body":"thank you very"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":175.19,"endTime":176.66,"body":"much. Good to see you again,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":176.66,"endTime":177.07999999999998,"body":"Tim."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":177.2,"endTime":179.48,"body":"This is a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":177.2,"endTime":179.48,"body":"homecoming. I've known you for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":179.48,"endTime":184.13,"body":"several decades. You're a well"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":179.48,"endTime":184.13,"body":"known activist in energy and the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":184.13,"endTime":189.47,"body":"environment and social justice"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":184.13,"endTime":189.47,"body":"arenas in the Chicago area. I'm"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":189.47,"endTime":194.81,"body":"grateful for your work. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":189.47,"endTime":194.81,"body":"excited to finally do an episode"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":194.81,"endTime":199.13,"body":"on nuclear power. It's long"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":194.81,"endTime":199.13,"body":"overdue. So tell us Dave, how"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":199.13,"endTime":204.83,"body":"did you get interested in the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":199.13,"endTime":204.83,"body":"nuclear industry and come to any"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":204.83,"endTime":205.52,"body":"is?"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":206.3,"endTime":208.73,"body":"Well, to start with"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":206.3,"endTime":208.73,"body":"nuclear energy Information"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":208.73,"endTime":215.27,"body":"Service turns 42 on June 7, of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":208.73,"endTime":215.27,"body":"2023. So we've been around a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":215.27,"endTime":218.84,"body":"number of decades, and our"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":215.27,"endTime":218.84,"body":"purpose really was twofold. We"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":218.84,"endTime":221.78,"body":"wanted to watch dog the nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":218.84,"endTime":221.78,"body":"industry, which when we started"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":221.78,"endTime":225.86,"body":"was Commonwealth Edison, it's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":221.78,"endTime":225.86,"body":"morphed over time into other"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":225.89000000000001,"endTime":233.57,"body":"companies, but also to translate"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":225.89000000000001,"endTime":233.57,"body":"a difficult arcane scientific"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":233.6,"endTime":237.29,"body":"issue into language that Joe and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":233.6,"endTime":237.29,"body":"Josephine couchpotato could"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":237.29,"endTime":242.3,"body":"understand. There are a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":237.29,"endTime":242.3,"body":"complex issues that, frankly, we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":242.3,"endTime":246.08,"body":"all have to have some level of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":242.3,"endTime":246.08,"body":"understanding about, if we're"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":246.08,"endTime":248.81,"body":"going to make any kind of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":246.08,"endTime":248.81,"body":"competent decisions about them."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":249.02,"endTime":254.45,"body":"Genetic engineering, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":249.02,"endTime":254.45,"body":"GMO foods, AI, and certainly"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":254.45,"endTime":257.39,"body":"nuclear is one of those. So that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":254.45,"endTime":257.39,"body":"was our intent when we started,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":257.41999999999996,"endTime":262.1,"body":"you know, many, many decades"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":257.41999999999996,"endTime":262.1,"body":"ago. Over the years, we morphed"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":262.1,"endTime":268.25,"body":"into that more, but adopted as"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":262.1,"endTime":268.25,"body":"many activist responses as we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":268.25,"endTime":270.26,"body":"thought was appropriate. You"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":268.25,"endTime":270.26,"body":"know, at first we thought we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":270.26,"endTime":273.8,"body":"would just be educational. But"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":270.26,"endTime":273.8,"body":"we realised that education"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":273.8,"endTime":277.76,"body":"without action is useless. So we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":273.8,"endTime":277.76,"body":"did various activism, things"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":277.76,"endTime":281.63,"body":"called demonstrations. We did a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":277.76,"endTime":281.63,"body":"lot of public presentations."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":282.59000000000003,"endTime":286.73,"body":"Eventually, we started working"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":282.59000000000003,"endTime":286.73,"body":"with legislators, trying to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":286.73,"endTime":289.73,"body":"inform them on the complexity,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":286.73,"endTime":289.73,"body":"the issues, both at the federal"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":289.73,"endTime":292.76,"body":"level and state level. So over"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":289.73,"endTime":292.76,"body":"the years, we've pretty much"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":292.76,"endTime":296.39,"body":"done it all. And in all"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":292.76,"endTime":296.39,"body":"capacities. You asked me how did"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":296.39,"endTime":299.9,"body":"I come to this? Well, I would"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":296.39,"endTime":299.9,"body":"say by accident, it's called"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":299.9,"endTime":304.13,"body":"Three Mile Island. I was"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":299.9,"endTime":304.13,"body":"actually pronuclear, like many"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":304.28,"endTime":308.80999999999995,"body":"20 Somethings were back in the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":304.28,"endTime":308.80999999999995,"body":"day. You know, it was something"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":308.80999999999995,"endTime":311.80999999999995,"body":"positive that America could"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":308.80999999999995,"endTime":311.80999999999995,"body":"offer the world, you know, we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":311.80999999999995,"endTime":316.19000000000005,"body":"had a benefits instead of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":311.80999999999995,"endTime":316.19000000000005,"body":"blowing something up. But in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":316.19000000000005,"endTime":320.96000000000004,"body":"1975, there was a huge fire down"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":316.19000000000005,"endTime":320.96000000000004,"body":"at a nuclear plant in Alabama."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":321.77,"endTime":326.48,"body":"And it turned out that an idiot"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":321.77,"endTime":326.48,"body":"doing a leak test, using a lit"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":326.48,"endTime":331.88,"body":"candle ignited the insulation"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":326.48,"endTime":331.88,"body":"between the walls in a section"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":331.88,"endTime":335.87,"body":"of the reactor building, which"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":331.88,"endTime":335.87,"body":"ultimately resulted in a $200"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":335.87,"endTime":340.22,"body":"million fire. And I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":335.87,"endTime":340.22,"body":"whoa, you know, is this the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":340.22,"endTime":344.15,"body":"sophisticated technology that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":340.22,"endTime":344.15,"body":"we're all supposed to be waiting"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":344.15,"endTime":347.6,"body":"with bated breath for? It turns"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":344.15,"endTime":347.6,"body":"out to that all the experts who"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":347.6,"endTime":350.65999999999997,"body":"are advising what to do on site"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":347.6,"endTime":350.65999999999997,"body":"were wrong and it took a local"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":350.78,"endTime":354.53,"body":"Fire chief's to come in and say,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":350.78,"endTime":354.53,"body":"we're going to hose the thing to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":354.53,"endTime":358.61,"body":"put the fire what's. So it"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":354.53,"endTime":358.61,"body":"really broke through this myth"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":358.61,"endTime":364.70000000000005,"body":"that nuclear is some magical,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":358.61,"endTime":364.70000000000005,"body":"high tech, you know invulnerable"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":365.51,"endTime":369.53,"body":"process of technology that we've"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":365.51,"endTime":369.53,"body":"invented, and really started to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":369.53,"endTime":375.26,"body":"show the true vulnerabilities of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":369.53,"endTime":375.26,"body":"the technology. With Three Mile"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":375.26,"endTime":378.89,"body":"Island here, I think that pretty"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":375.26,"endTime":378.89,"body":"much said it all. Folks don't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":378.89,"endTime":381.67999999999995,"body":"remember that Jimmy Carter was a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":378.89,"endTime":381.67999999999995,"body":"nuclear engineer, by the way in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":381.67999999999995,"endTime":388.4,"body":"the nuclear navy. So he was on"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":381.67999999999995,"endTime":388.4,"body":"call when TMI hit. And he made"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":388.4,"endTime":393.74,"body":"some decisions, which are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":388.4,"endTime":393.74,"body":"controversial. He not only got"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":393.74,"endTime":396.02,"body":"us through the Three Mile"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":393.74,"endTime":396.02,"body":"Island, Three Mile Island"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":396.02,"endTime":403.66999999999996,"body":"accident, but he got into"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":396.02,"endTime":403.66999999999996,"body":"permanent into permanence, a ban"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":403.70000000000005,"endTime":407.69000000000005,"body":"on what is called reprocessing"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":403.70000000000005,"endTime":407.69000000000005,"body":"of the spent nuclear fuel, which"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":407.69000000000005,"endTime":411.62,"body":"would take the fuel and try and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":407.69000000000005,"endTime":411.62,"body":"reuse it in some way. That was"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":411.67999999999995,"endTime":415.97,"body":"originally instituted by"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":411.67999999999995,"endTime":415.97,"body":"President Ford temporarily. When"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":415.97,"endTime":418.58000000000004,"body":"Carter took over, he made it"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":415.97,"endTime":418.58000000000004,"body":"permanent because of the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":419.0,"endTime":422.15,"body":"proliferation potential that he"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":419.0,"endTime":422.15,"body":"has worldwide to make nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":422.15,"endTime":425.92999999999995,"body":"weapons. So all of these things"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":422.15,"endTime":425.92999999999995,"body":"started happening. And as my"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":425.92999999999995,"endTime":432.14,"body":"girlfriend and I were leaving"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":425.92999999999995,"endTime":432.14,"body":"the theatre watching. Around the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":432.14,"endTime":435.83000000000004,"body":"time of the Three Mile Island"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":432.14,"endTime":435.83000000000004,"body":"accident, The China Syndrome was"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":435.83000000000004,"endTime":440.12,"body":"the name of the movie, we were"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":435.83000000000004,"endTime":440.12,"body":"given a brochure to have come to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":440.12,"endTime":443.87,"body":"a meeting at the end of the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":440.12,"endTime":443.87,"body":"week, someplace else. And since"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":443.87,"endTime":447.5,"body":"then, I've been involved with"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":443.87,"endTime":447.5,"body":"the anti nuclear community and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":447.5,"endTime":452.69000000000005,"body":"the safe energy advocacy"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":447.5,"endTime":452.69000000000005,"body":"communities to get terminate"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":452.69000000000005,"endTime":456.40999999999997,"body":"nuclear power and replace it"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":452.69000000000005,"endTime":456.40999999999997,"body":"with appropriate renewables"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":456.40999999999997,"endTime":459.5,"body":"energy efficiency. And now you"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":456.40999999999997,"endTime":459.5,"body":"can add to that energy storage"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":459.5,"endTime":463.90999999999997,"body":"and better transmission. So it's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":459.5,"endTime":463.90999999999997,"body":"a long road, but here we are 42"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":463.90999999999997,"endTime":465.47,"body":"years later doing the same"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":463.90999999999997,"endTime":465.47,"body":"message."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":465.73900000000003,"endTime":467.779,"body":"The Clean Power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":465.73900000000003,"endTime":467.779,"body":"Hour is brought to you by Dena"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":467.779,"endTime":471.169,"body":"watts. If you're a solar PV"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":467.779,"endTime":471.169,"body":"asset manager or performance"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":471.169,"endTime":474.19899999999996,"body":"engineer, you need better data"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":471.169,"endTime":474.19899999999996,"body":"and better business"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":474.19899999999996,"endTime":477.619,"body":"intelligence. With Dina Watts"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":474.19899999999996,"endTime":477.619,"body":"digital twin benchmarking"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":477.619,"endTime":481.519,"body":"technology, you get more"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":477.619,"endTime":481.519,"body":"accurate, efficient, and faster"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":481.519,"endTime":485.029,"body":"performance measurement results."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":481.519,"endTime":485.029,"body":"The fourth generation Dino"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":485.029,"endTime":488.98900000000003,"body":"recently completed a technical"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":485.029,"endTime":488.98900000000003,"body":"review by DNV, you can download"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":488.98900000000003,"endTime":496.18899999999996,"body":"the report at Dena watts.com."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":488.98900000000003,"endTime":496.18899999999996,"body":"That's D no wa t t s.com. Now"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":496.18899999999996,"endTime":500.929,"body":"back to the show. Yeah, I to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":496.18899999999996,"endTime":500.929,"body":"remember Three Mile Island. My"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":500.929,"endTime":504.43899999999996,"body":"parents were very involved in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":500.929,"endTime":504.43899999999996,"body":"energy in the environment issues"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":504.46900000000005,"endTime":509.389,"body":"in the Four Corners area of New"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":504.46900000000005,"endTime":509.389,"body":"Mexico, fighting coal, but also"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":509.389,"endTime":513.589,"body":"uranium mining, major"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":509.389,"endTime":513.589,"body":"environmental hazard and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":513.589,"endTime":517.789,"body":"environmental justice issue."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":513.589,"endTime":517.789,"body":"Because uranium dust is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":517.789,"endTime":522.709,"body":"radioactive and causes cancer"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":517.789,"endTime":522.709,"body":"among the miners who are doing"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":522.709,"endTime":529.669,"body":"that, that work. And so, and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":522.709,"endTime":529.669,"body":"then, in 1986, Chernobyl"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":529.669,"endTime":533.809,"body":"happened in the spring of 1986,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":529.669,"endTime":533.809,"body":"I was signed up to go to Norway"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":534.169,"endTime":538.609,"body":"as an exchange student, and did"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":534.169,"endTime":538.609,"body":"so in June of 1986. And of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":538.609,"endTime":542.959,"body":"course, Norway and Sweden and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":538.609,"endTime":542.959,"body":"Finland were, were impacted"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":542.959,"endTime":547.909,"body":"directly by the fallout from"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":542.959,"endTime":547.909,"body":"Chernobyl. The fallout fell onto"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":547.909,"endTime":552.469,"body":"the ground and contaminated the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":547.909,"endTime":552.469,"body":"vegetation that was consumed by"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":552.469,"endTime":556.309,"body":"the reindeer and the sheep,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":552.469,"endTime":556.309,"body":"which are major livestock"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":557.959,"endTime":563.269,"body":"resources in those countries."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":557.959,"endTime":563.269,"body":"And so it was, it was an active"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":563.269,"endTime":567.769,"body":"conversation at the University"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":563.269,"endTime":567.769,"body":"of Oslo where I was a summer"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":567.769,"endTime":572.059,"body":"school student learning to speak"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":567.769,"endTime":572.059,"body":"Norwegian. That radioactivity"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":572.059,"endTime":578.269,"body":"had contaminated the food web"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":572.059,"endTime":578.269,"body":"and, and they had to call the,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":578.659,"endTime":582.619,"body":"you know, the herds that summer"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":578.659,"endTime":582.619,"body":"and dispose of that meat because"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":582.619,"endTime":584.749,"body":"it was not safe for human"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":582.619,"endTime":584.749,"body":"consumption."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":584.9,"endTime":587.6,"body":"Sadly, term that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":584.9,"endTime":587.6,"body":"accident, if you want to call it"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":587.6,"endTime":592.0699999999999,"body":"an accident, we don't. We call"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":587.6,"endTime":592.0699999999999,"body":"it an unintentional is still"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":592.0699999999999,"endTime":595.43,"body":"going on. Because there are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":592.0699999999999,"endTime":595.43,"body":"portions in Scotland, portions"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":595.43,"endTime":600.17,"body":"of Scotland where you can't eat"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":595.43,"endTime":600.17,"body":"the sheep in Central Europe,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":600.68,"endTime":605.18,"body":"they still advise you do not eat"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":600.68,"endTime":605.18,"body":"mushrooms, and eat wild boar"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":605.18,"endTime":608.81,"body":"meat because there's still"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":605.18,"endTime":608.81,"body":"enough residual radiation in the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":608.81,"endTime":611.8399999999999,"body":"soils. And of course, bio"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":608.81,"endTime":611.8399999999999,"body":"concentrates as it works its way"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":663.53,"endTime":667.01,"body":"up the food chain. I spent a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":663.53,"endTime":667.01,"body":"number of years in Hamburg,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":667.01,"endTime":672.6800000000001,"body":"Germany, and they have an annual"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":667.01,"endTime":672.6800000000001,"body":"event where they make this"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":672.6800000000001,"endTime":676.55,"body":"special mushroom dish called"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":672.6800000000001,"endTime":676.55,"body":"differnece. Now that's fine."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":676.5799999999999,"endTime":680.8999999999999,"body":"That's a cooking sorry,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":676.5799999999999,"endTime":680.8999999999999,"body":"definitely. And it's a cute"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":680.8999999999999,"endTime":684.3199999999999,"body":"little orange mushroom. But"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":680.8999999999999,"endTime":684.3199999999999,"body":"after Chernobyl, they stopped"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":684.3199999999999,"endTime":687.9200000000001,"body":"doing it because they couldn't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":684.3199999999999,"endTime":687.9200000000001,"body":"guarantee that these mushrooms"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":687.9200000000001,"endTime":691.3399999999999,"body":"would be safe for consumption."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":687.9200000000001,"endTime":691.3399999999999,"body":"And so that disaster is still"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":691.3399999999999,"endTime":694.97,"body":"ongoing in that respect. And I"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":691.3399999999999,"endTime":694.97,"body":"think we just found out with the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":694.97,"endTime":700.28,"body":"Russian occupation of Chernobyl"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":694.97,"endTime":700.28,"body":"earlier last year. There's the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":700.28,"endTime":703.0699999999999,"body":"report was that those soldiers"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":700.28,"endTime":703.0699999999999,"body":"had to be taken Anabella rooms"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":703.0699999999999,"endTime":707.6600000000001,"body":"for treatment because of the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":703.0699999999999,"endTime":707.6600000000001,"body":"radiation exposure because they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":707.6600000000001,"endTime":711.44,"body":"were camping in the soils in the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":707.6600000000001,"endTime":711.44,"body":"forests around the Chernobyl"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":711.44,"endTime":711.8899999999999,"body":"reactor."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":712.5799999999999,"endTime":715.6099999999999,"body":"So the Chernobyl"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":712.5799999999999,"endTime":715.6099999999999,"body":"reactor is in what is now"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":715.6099999999999,"endTime":721.1600000000001,"body":"Ukraine. Yeah. So the other"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":715.6099999999999,"endTime":721.1600000000001,"body":"context is that as my listeners"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":721.1600000000001,"endTime":725.51,"body":"know, Illinois, is the most"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":721.1600000000001,"endTime":725.51,"body":"nuclearized state in the United"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":725.51,"endTime":729.6199999999999,"body":"States, we have approximately"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":725.51,"endTime":729.6199999999999,"body":"40% of our grid power coming"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":729.6199999999999,"endTime":733.52,"body":"from nuclear power. I myself"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":729.6199999999999,"endTime":733.52,"body":"live 50 miles from a nuclear"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":733.52,"endTime":737.06,"body":"power plant, the Clinton power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":733.52,"endTime":737.06,"body":"station, which has a lovely Lake"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":737.06,"endTime":741.5899999999999,"body":"around it, which I sail on. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":737.06,"endTime":741.5899999999999,"body":"I appreciate that resource. It"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":741.5899999999999,"endTime":745.28,"body":"is a wonderful natural resource"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":741.5899999999999,"endTime":745.28,"body":"now, since they built the lake"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":745.28,"endTime":751.3999999999999,"body":"in the late 70s. But most most"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":745.28,"endTime":751.3999999999999,"body":"Americans have no idea that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":751.3999999999999,"endTime":754.6399999999999,"body":"Illinois is so nuclearized How"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":751.3999999999999,"endTime":754.6399999999999,"body":"did Illinois become so"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":754.6399999999999,"endTime":755.72,"body":"nuclearized? Dave?"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":755.8699999999999,"endTime":758.54,"body":"Well, it's a an"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":755.8699999999999,"endTime":758.54,"body":"interesting history, post World"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":758.54,"endTime":763.8199999999999,"body":"War Two, where the Eisenhower"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":758.54,"endTime":763.8199999999999,"body":"administration is the one most"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":763.8199999999999,"endTime":766.9100000000001,"body":"well known for Atoms for Peace,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":763.8199999999999,"endTime":766.9100000000001,"body":"wanting to take the power and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":767.06,"endTime":770.4200000000001,"body":"the destructive power of the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":767.06,"endTime":770.4200000000001,"body":"bomb, transform it into"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":770.4200000000001,"endTime":775.28,"body":"something positive. And as many"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":770.4200000000001,"endTime":775.28,"body":"people know, the Nuclear Age"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":775.28,"endTime":780.23,"body":"began in Chicago, December"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":775.28,"endTime":780.23,"body":"2 1942, at the University of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":780.23,"endTime":785.5699999999999,"body":"Chicago steak field, squash"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":780.23,"endTime":785.5699999999999,"body":"courts, first chain reaction"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":785.5699999999999,"endTime":788.96,"body":"that we controlled took place"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":785.5699999999999,"endTime":788.96,"body":"there. Later that was moved to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":788.96,"endTime":792.44,"body":"the suburbs of Chicago, which"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":788.96,"endTime":792.44,"body":"then were forested areas Aragon"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":792.44,"endTime":796.1600000000001,"body":"laboratory, and then Oregon had"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":792.44,"endTime":796.1600000000001,"body":"to move second time where it's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":796.19,"endTime":799.19,"body":"presently located now. So there"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":796.19,"endTime":799.19,"body":"was a national laboratory"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":799.19,"endTime":802.97,"body":"connection. We had a utility at"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":799.19,"endTime":802.97,"body":"the time Commonwealth Edison,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":802.97,"endTime":808.1600000000001,"body":"which was very interested in the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":802.97,"endTime":808.1600000000001,"body":"technology. But when we actually"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":808.1600000000001,"endTime":810.9200000000001,"body":"got a hold of a couple of annual"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":808.1600000000001,"endTime":810.9200000000001,"body":"reports from back in the day,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":811.6099999999999,"endTime":814.3399999999999,"body":"where the company is talking to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":811.6099999999999,"endTime":814.3399999999999,"body":"its shareholders about this"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":814.3399999999999,"endTime":818.78,"body":"wonderful new energy resource,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":814.3399999999999,"endTime":818.78,"body":"which not only would it give"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":818.78,"endTime":824.21,"body":"unlimited power, cheaply, but it"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":818.78,"endTime":824.21,"body":"would create a situation where"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":824.21,"endTime":828.3499999999999,"body":"the government would buy back"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":824.21,"endTime":828.3499999999999,"body":"the nuclear waste to get the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":828.3499999999999,"endTime":832.49,"body":"plutonium to manufacture nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":828.3499999999999,"endTime":832.49,"body":"weapons out there in black and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":832.49,"endTime":836.24,"body":"white, they weren't even trying"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":832.49,"endTime":836.24,"body":"to hide it then. So this is the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":836.27,"endTime":839.3899999999999,"body":"the seedy side of nuclear, which"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":836.27,"endTime":839.3899999999999,"body":"gets swept under the carpet,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":839.8999999999999,"endTime":845.8699999999999,"body":"except on what episodes of The"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":839.8999999999999,"endTime":845.8699999999999,"body":"Simpsons at nuclear power and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":845.8699999999999,"endTime":851.3599999999999,"body":"nuclear weapons are still"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":845.8699999999999,"endTime":851.3599999999999,"body":"intricately bound together. So"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":851.3899999999999,"endTime":854.6600000000001,"body":"back in the day, that was the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":851.3899999999999,"endTime":854.6600000000001,"body":"push here in Illinois, we had"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":854.6600000000001,"endTime":860.24,"body":"argon, we had a willing utility,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":854.6600000000001,"endTime":860.24,"body":"we had a very eager government"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":860.24,"endTime":864.56,"body":"to push this forward. And so the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":860.24,"endTime":864.56,"body":"first privately invested"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":864.6800000000001,"endTime":867.6199999999999,"body":"commercial nuclear reactor was"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":864.6800000000001,"endTime":867.6199999999999,"body":"opened at Dresden, Illinois,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":868.0699999999999,"endTime":871.04,"body":"just in one, the reactor is now"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":868.0699999999999,"endTime":871.04,"body":"closed, because it was"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":871.0699999999999,"endTime":874.97,"body":"inefficient and actually started"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":871.0699999999999,"endTime":874.97,"body":"exposing its workers to high"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":874.97,"endTime":879.6199999999999,"body":"levels of radiation. But"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":874.97,"endTime":879.6199999999999,"body":"ultimately, what it did, was it"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":880.04,"endTime":885.29,"body":"over the years enabled Illinois"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":880.04,"endTime":885.29,"body":"to build 14 reactors total, of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":885.29,"endTime":889.73,"body":"which 11 are still operating. If"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":885.29,"endTime":889.73,"body":"we were a nation, we would be"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":889.73,"endTime":893.1800000000001,"body":"the 11th largest nuclear power"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":889.73,"endTime":893.1800000000001,"body":"in the world, just behind"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":893.1800000000001,"endTime":896.27,"body":"Ukraine, which is not an"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":893.1800000000001,"endTime":896.27,"body":"enviable place, no matter how"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":896.27,"endTime":897.26,"body":"you describe it right now."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":897.74,"endTime":900.3199999999999,"body":"So Illinois has"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":897.74,"endTime":900.3199999999999,"body":"more nuclear power plants than"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":900.3199999999999,"endTime":900.95,"body":"France."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":901.1600000000001,"endTime":902.3299999999999,"body":"Now, France is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":903.0799999999999,"endTime":904.5799999999999,"body":"number one, you're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":903.0799999999999,"endTime":904.5799999999999,"body":"number."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":907.1600000000001,"endTime":909.74,"body":"Us is number one,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":907.1600000000001,"endTime":909.74,"body":"we have 92 operating reactors."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":911.06,"endTime":915.8,"body":"And, you know, after that, you"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":911.06,"endTime":915.8,"body":"know, Russia, Japan, France,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":916.04,"endTime":920.45,"body":"those are the biggies, the big"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":916.04,"endTime":920.45,"body":"four, and then a sprinkling much"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":920.45,"endTime":924.8299999999999,"body":"countries England and South"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":920.45,"endTime":924.8299999999999,"body":"America as a few. Interestingly"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":924.8299999999999,"endTime":928.52,"body":"enough, the fourth largest"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":924.8299999999999,"endTime":928.52,"body":"economy in the world, Germany,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":929.24,"endTime":932.9300000000001,"body":"turned off its last nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":929.24,"endTime":932.9300000000001,"body":"reactor three weeks ago, and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":933.3199999999999,"endTime":936.77,"body":"they will no longer do nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":933.3199999999999,"endTime":936.77,"body":"and they are going full bore"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":937.0699999999999,"endTime":939.8599999999999,"body":"into the Renewable Energy"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":937.0699999999999,"endTime":939.8599999999999,"body":"Future, which is what we believe"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":939.8599999999999,"endTime":941.45,"body":"the United States needs to do as"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":939.8599999999999,"endTime":941.45,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":942.05,"endTime":945.2,"body":"Yeah, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":942.05,"endTime":945.2,"body":"2011, when Fukushima happened,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":945.23,"endTime":950.3299999999999,"body":"which was a very serious major"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":945.23,"endTime":950.3299999999999,"body":"natural disaster or manmade"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":950.3299999999999,"endTime":955.31,"body":"disaster, that's that's when"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":950.3299999999999,"endTime":955.31,"body":"there was a major thrust in in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":955.31,"endTime":961.9100000000001,"body":"Germany, right to phase out"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":955.31,"endTime":961.9100000000001,"body":"nuclear. And, and Europe is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":961.94,"endTime":965.03,"body":"Europe is very interesting"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":961.94,"endTime":965.03,"body":"place. I like to say if you want"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":965.03,"endTime":968.1199999999999,"body":"to see the future of energy go"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":965.03,"endTime":968.1199999999999,"body":"to Northern Europe, because they"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":968.1199999999999,"endTime":971.96,"body":"don't have fossil resources the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":968.1199999999999,"endTime":971.96,"body":"way we do in the United States."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":973.0699999999999,"endTime":976.3999999999999,"body":"With the exception of the North"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":973.0699999999999,"endTime":976.3999999999999,"body":"Sea, the Norwegians have a lot"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":976.3999999999999,"endTime":981.47,"body":"of oil. But, but in general,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":976.3999999999999,"endTime":981.47,"body":"energy is very expensive,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":981.5,"endTime":986.3599999999999,"body":"relatively speaking, and solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":981.5,"endTime":986.3599999999999,"body":"and wind are much further along."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":987.05,"endTime":993.3799999999999,"body":"And so and then the other the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":987.05,"endTime":993.3799999999999,"body":"other backdrop here is that,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":993.56,"endTime":997.8199999999999,"body":"once you have built a nuclear"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":993.56,"endTime":997.8199999999999,"body":"power plant, it is a relatively"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":997.8199999999999,"endTime":1003.79,"body":"low carbon source of electricity"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":997.8199999999999,"endTime":1003.79,"body":"and so on. On some level, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1003.79,"endTime":1007.99,"body":"proponent of keeping those"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1003.79,"endTime":1007.99,"body":"facilities running. If they are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1007.99,"endTime":1012.1299999999999,"body":"running safely, we still haven't"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1007.99,"endTime":1012.1299999999999,"body":"solved the long term problem,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1012.19,"endTime":1017.8599999999999,"body":"right for the waste, these"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1012.19,"endTime":1017.8599999999999,"body":"plants produced, produce used"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1017.98,"endTime":1021.7,"body":"radioactive waste, which has to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1017.98,"endTime":1021.7,"body":"be stored for a very long time."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1021.7,"endTime":1026.05,"body":"Some of it can be processed and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1021.7,"endTime":1026.05,"body":"used in military applications,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1026.05,"endTime":1030.52,"body":"which is a hazard in and of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1026.05,"endTime":1030.52,"body":"itself. But nonetheless, there"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1030.52,"endTime":1034.21,"body":"is this there is a waste stream,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1030.52,"endTime":1034.21,"body":"which America has not dealt"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1034.21,"endTime":1036.76,"body":"with. I don't know if you want"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1034.21,"endTime":1036.76,"body":"to make any comments about that."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1036.76,"endTime":1042.43,"body":"And then I'd love to get into"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1036.76,"endTime":1042.43,"body":"this current wave of, of, okay,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1042.43,"endTime":1045.7,"body":"we're keeping what we have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1042.43,"endTime":1045.7,"body":"alive, there are major"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1045.7,"endTime":1051.28,"body":"initiatives in Illinois and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1045.7,"endTime":1051.28,"body":"other places, and then a wave to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1051.28,"endTime":1055.36,"body":"drive a next generation of what"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1051.28,"endTime":1055.36,"body":"they are now referring to as"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1055.3899999999999,"endTime":1057.37,"body":"small modular nuclear reactors,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1057.43,"endTime":1060.97,"body":"right. And"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1057.43,"endTime":1060.97,"body":"actually, both the waist and the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1060.97,"endTime":1064.06,"body":"small modular issue are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1060.97,"endTime":1064.06,"body":"intertwined. And I'll get to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1064.06,"endTime":1067.51,"body":"that in a minute when we go"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1064.06,"endTime":1067.51,"body":"discuss that in more detail. But"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1067.51,"endTime":1072.01,"body":"I want to back up a step. I"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1067.51,"endTime":1072.01,"body":"understand your and others."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1073.42,"endTime":1078.3100000000002,"body":"analysis that yes, nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1073.42,"endTime":1078.3100000000002,"body":"plants are lower carbon in terms"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1078.3100000000002,"endTime":1082.0900000000001,"body":"of an energy resource at the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1078.3100000000002,"endTime":1082.0900000000001,"body":"sight of generations, then"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1082.1200000000001,"endTime":1085.99,"body":"certainly any fossil fuel"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1082.1200000000001,"endTime":1085.99,"body":"resource you could pick, but our"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1085.99,"endTime":1090.46,"body":"organisation back in 1999, and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1085.99,"endTime":1090.46,"body":"then back in 2007, adopted a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1090.46,"endTime":1096.0700000000002,"body":"carbon free nuclear free"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1090.46,"endTime":1096.0700000000002,"body":"approach to energy. And, you"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1096.0700000000002,"endTime":1098.23,"body":"know, it sounds like a great"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1096.0700000000002,"endTime":1098.23,"body":"slogan, can it be done? Well,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1098.23,"endTime":1100.69,"body":"yes, it can. And there are a lot"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1098.23,"endTime":1100.69,"body":"of people who have already"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1100.96,"endTime":1104.3200000000002,"body":"crunched numbers to show how it"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1100.96,"endTime":1104.3200000000002,"body":"can be done, how long it will"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1104.3200000000002,"endTime":1107.8000000000002,"body":"take how much it will cost,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1104.3200000000002,"endTime":1107.8000000000002,"body":"going all the way back to 2007."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1108.4,"endTime":1111.94,"body":"So it's not that we can't do it."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1108.4,"endTime":1111.94,"body":"There's absolutely no"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1111.94,"endTime":1114.94,"body":"technological reason why not."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1111.94,"endTime":1114.94,"body":"And that's what I wanted to come"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1114.94,"endTime":1118.24,"body":"back to in your statement. I've"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1114.94,"endTime":1118.24,"body":"spoken with legislatures,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1118.27,"endTime":1122.2900000000002,"body":"legislators who feel the same"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1118.27,"endTime":1122.2900000000002,"body":"way you do that, oh, because the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1122.2900000000002,"endTime":1125.65,"body":"climate crisis is so urgent"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1122.2900000000002,"endTime":1125.65,"body":"right now. And nuclear plants"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1125.65,"endTime":1129.04,"body":"are lower carbon, we should keep"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1125.65,"endTime":1129.04,"body":"the ones we have running. Even"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1129.04,"endTime":1134.8,"body":"Greta Sundberg, has made public"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1129.04,"endTime":1134.8,"body":"statements in that direction."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1135.7,"endTime":1140.89,"body":"What fails to get appreciated,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1135.7,"endTime":1140.89,"body":"though, is two major issues that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1140.89,"endTime":1143.68,"body":"never get brought up in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1140.89,"endTime":1143.68,"body":"discussion of nuclear, I touched"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1143.68,"endTime":1146.68,"body":"on one a minute ago. And that is"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1143.68,"endTime":1146.68,"body":"the connection between nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1146.68,"endTime":1151.84,"body":"weapons and nuclear power. But"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1146.68,"endTime":1151.84,"body":"the second one is, how much of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1151.84,"endTime":1156.58,"body":"our situation is technological"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1151.84,"endTime":1156.58,"body":"barriers as opposed to self"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1156.58,"endTime":1161.08,"body":"fulfilling prophecies. And what"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1156.58,"endTime":1161.08,"body":"I mean by that is, if you look"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1161.08,"endTime":1165.1000000000001,"body":"back over the last 30 years, or"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1161.08,"endTime":1165.1000000000001,"body":"40 years of energy production,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1165.46,"endTime":1169.69,"body":"where we're trying to head with"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1165.46,"endTime":1169.69,"body":"renewables, and you line that up"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1169.69,"endTime":1174.67,"body":"with who controls the energy"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1169.69,"endTime":1174.67,"body":"decision making. It's the fossil"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1174.67,"endTime":1177.31,"body":"fuel and nuclear industry,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1174.67,"endTime":1177.31,"body":"people and their allies in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1177.31,"endTime":1183.94,"body":"government. So they have very"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1177.31,"endTime":1183.94,"body":"adeptly engineered circumstances"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1184.18,"endTime":1187.09,"body":"where they create the self"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1184.18,"endTime":1187.09,"body":"fulfilling prophecy conclusion"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1187.09,"endTime":1190.93,"body":"that, oh, we don't have enough"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1187.09,"endTime":1190.93,"body":"renewables. Now. Therefore, we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1190.93,"endTime":1196.21,"body":"need to keep, you know, gas"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1190.93,"endTime":1196.21,"body":"plants running, we need to keep"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1196.3,"endTime":1199.24,"body":"cold carbon capture running, we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1196.3,"endTime":1199.24,"body":"need to keep nuclear running"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1199.33,"endTime":1203.2,"body":"until we build enough"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1199.33,"endTime":1203.2,"body":"renewables. What doesn't get"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1203.2,"endTime":1205.93,"body":"stated, though, is, again, all"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1203.2,"endTime":1205.93,"body":"those political decisions and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1205.93,"endTime":1209.08,"body":"what made that happen and who"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1205.93,"endTime":1209.08,"body":"controls those decisions? I'll"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1209.08,"endTime":1212.8,"body":"give you an example. Must be"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1209.08,"endTime":1212.8,"body":"about five or six years ago, I"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1212.8,"endTime":1218.59,"body":"guess. There was a community in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1212.8,"endTime":1218.59,"body":"Northwest Illinois, which was"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1218.59,"endTime":1222.46,"body":"municipally owned utility, they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1218.59,"endTime":1222.46,"body":"own their own stuff regenerated"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1222.46,"endTime":1225.8500000000001,"body":"their own power, but they also"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1222.46,"endTime":1225.8500000000001,"body":"owned a segment of transmission"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1225.88,"endTime":1229.96,"body":"line, which extended to the Iowa"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1225.88,"endTime":1229.96,"body":"borders about 20 miles long, it"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1229.96,"endTime":1232.75,"body":"wasn't very long. And they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1229.96,"endTime":1232.75,"body":"decided they didn't want to have"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1232.75,"endTime":1235.48,"body":"that anymore as part of their"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1232.75,"endTime":1235.48,"body":"portfolio. So they were going to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1235.48,"endTime":1240.52,"body":"put it up for market sale. They"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1235.48,"endTime":1240.52,"body":"did a close bid, up and up"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1240.52,"endTime":1245.14,"body":"bidding process. And at the end"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1240.52,"endTime":1245.14,"body":"of the day, the bid went to a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1245.14,"endTime":1248.41,"body":"company called next era energy,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1245.14,"endTime":1248.41,"body":"which used to be Florida Power"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1248.41,"endTime":1251.74,"body":"and Light. It's probably I"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1248.41,"endTime":1251.74,"body":"believe, it's the largest"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1251.74,"endTime":1255.94,"body":"renewables generator in terms of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1251.74,"endTime":1255.94,"body":"utilities in the country today."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1256.54,"endTime":1261.31,"body":"So next year, I won the bid. But"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1256.54,"endTime":1261.31,"body":"at the 11th hour and 59th"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1261.31,"endTime":1266.8,"body":"minutes, Commonwealth Edison and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1261.31,"endTime":1266.8,"body":"Exelon intervened and requested"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1266.8,"endTime":1270.8500000000001,"body":"that the Illinois Commerce"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1266.8,"endTime":1270.8500000000001,"body":"Commission halt the sale because"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1270.8500000000001,"endTime":1274.69,"body":"somehow they felt they had they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1270.8500000000001,"endTime":1274.69,"body":"were supposed to get first right"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1274.69,"endTime":1278.71,"body":"of bidding in this process. Now"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1274.69,"endTime":1278.71,"body":"there was no law that guaranteed"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1278.71,"endTime":1282.52,"body":"that there was no precedent even"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1278.71,"endTime":1282.52,"body":"if guaranteed that but the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1282.52,"endTime":1286.57,"body":"Commerce Commission went along"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1282.52,"endTime":1286.57,"body":"with it for some reason. It was"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1286.57,"endTime":1292.78,"body":"still the Madigan Reign of Error"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1286.57,"endTime":1292.78,"body":"ongoing. Who knows. But what"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1292.78,"endTime":1296.8600000000001,"body":"happened was when when they open"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1292.78,"endTime":1296.8600000000001,"body":"the proceeding, it was 11. All"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1296.89,"endTime":1300.52,"body":"commerce commission proceedings"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1296.89,"endTime":1300.52,"body":"are about 11 months long. Well"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1300.52,"endTime":1305.29,"body":"NextEra didn't want to Wait"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1300.52,"endTime":1305.29,"body":"around 11 minutes. So they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1305.29,"endTime":1308.02,"body":"withdrew their bid eventually"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1305.29,"endTime":1308.02,"body":"and went to Indiana to do"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1308.02,"endTime":1311.74,"body":"business. And Commonwealth"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1308.02,"endTime":1311.74,"body":"Edison Exelon bought the 20"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1311.74,"endTime":1316.15,"body":"miles of power line. The problem"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1311.74,"endTime":1316.15,"body":"there was that power line was"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1316.15,"endTime":1320.59,"body":"going to wheel in renewable"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1316.15,"endTime":1320.59,"body":"generated electricity from Iowa,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1321.43,"endTime":1324.22,"body":"which would have, I don't know"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1321.43,"endTime":1324.22,"body":"if it would have completely"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1324.22,"endTime":1328.72,"body":"solved the issue, but it's gonna"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1324.22,"endTime":1328.72,"body":"put a dent in does Illinois have"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1328.72,"endTime":1333.91,"body":"enough renewable generated power"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1328.72,"endTime":1333.91,"body":"to carbon or nuclear. So that's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1333.91,"endTime":1337.0,"body":"what I mean by self fulfilling"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1333.91,"endTime":1337.0,"body":"prophecy. If you can control the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1337.0,"endTime":1341.32,"body":"outcomes, either politically,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1337.0,"endTime":1341.32,"body":"technologically whatever, then"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1341.32,"endTime":1344.08,"body":"you can make these statements of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1341.32,"endTime":1344.08,"body":"oh, we don't have enough"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1344.08,"endTime":1347.77,"body":"renewables or renewables aren't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1344.08,"endTime":1347.77,"body":"ready, or they won't be ready"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1347.77,"endTime":1352.06,"body":"until and in the meantime, we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1347.77,"endTime":1352.06,"body":"need this. That's been the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1352.06,"endTime":1355.57,"body":"pattern. And that's what needs"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1352.06,"endTime":1355.57,"body":"to be confronted moving forward,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1355.66,"endTime":1359.68,"body":"whether we need more nuclear,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1355.66,"endTime":1359.68,"body":"whether we need gas or anything"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1359.68,"endTime":1362.56,"body":"else. So I want to really make"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1359.68,"endTime":1362.56,"body":"that point because it's never"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1362.56,"endTime":1364.09,"body":"made in the halls of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1362.56,"endTime":1364.09,"body":"Springfield."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1364.27,"endTime":1366.46,"body":"The Clean Power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1364.27,"endTime":1366.46,"body":"Hour is brought to you by CPS"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1366.46,"endTime":1369.67,"body":"America. The maker of North"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1366.46,"endTime":1369.67,"body":"America's number one three phase"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1369.67,"endTime":1372.91,"body":"string inverter with over six"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1369.67,"endTime":1372.91,"body":"gigawatts shipped in the US. The"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1372.91,"endTime":1375.88,"body":"CPS America product lineup"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1372.91,"endTime":1375.88,"body":"includes three phase string"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1375.88,"endTime":1381.22,"body":"inverters ranging from 25 to 275"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1375.88,"endTime":1381.22,"body":"kW, their flagship inverter, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1381.22,"endTime":1385.6000000000001,"body":"CPS 250 to 75 is designed to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1381.22,"endTime":1385.6000000000001,"body":"work with solar plants ranging"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1385.6000000000001,"endTime":1390.13,"body":"from two megawatts to two"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1385.6000000000001,"endTime":1390.13,"body":"gigawatts, the 250 to 75 pairs"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1390.13,"endTime":1393.82,"body":"well, with CPS America's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1390.13,"endTime":1393.82,"body":"exceptional data communication"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1393.97,"endTime":1397.78,"body":"controls and energy storage"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1393.97,"endTime":1397.78,"body":"solutions, go to chin power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1397.78,"endTime":1406.51,"body":"systems.com To find out more. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1397.78,"endTime":1406.51,"body":"here we are in 2023. Vogel in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1406.51,"endTime":1412.21,"body":"Georgia was just commissioned"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1406.51,"endTime":1412.21,"body":"after I think 17 years or so of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1412.21,"endTime":1418.15,"body":"construction and budget overruns"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1412.21,"endTime":1418.15,"body":"a total fiasco for the residents"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1418.15,"endTime":1422.3500000000001,"body":"of Georgia financially, they're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1418.15,"endTime":1422.3500000000001,"body":"paying dearly for that. But"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1422.8,"endTime":1427.6000000000001,"body":"there is a lot of talk in the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1422.8,"endTime":1427.6000000000001,"body":"news Dave, about SM N RS often"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1427.6000000000001,"endTime":1430.96,"body":"just referred to as SM ours"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1427.6000000000001,"endTime":1430.96,"body":"small modular reactors,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1431.5,"endTime":1434.89,"body":"technically Small Modular"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1431.5,"endTime":1434.89,"body":"nuclear reactors. And when you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1434.89,"endTime":1440.95,"body":"watch videos or interviews with"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1434.89,"endTime":1440.95,"body":"folks like Mark Jacobson, who is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1440.95,"endTime":1443.5,"body":"a professor at Stanford"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1440.95,"endTime":1443.5,"body":"University, one of our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1443.65,"endTime":1449.68,"body":"preeminent academics on the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1443.65,"endTime":1449.68,"body":"energy transition, it's very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1449.68,"endTime":1455.3500000000001,"body":"clear that there's nothing"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1449.68,"endTime":1455.3500000000001,"body":"really new about SM N RS, except"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1455.3500000000001,"endTime":1459.16,"body":"the scale of the projects are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1455.3500000000001,"endTime":1459.16,"body":"smaller. These are on the order"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1459.16,"endTime":1462.88,"body":"of 50 megawatt projects from"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1459.16,"endTime":1462.88,"body":"what I can tell, as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1462.88,"endTime":1466.57,"body":"gigawatt or multi gigawatt scale"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1462.88,"endTime":1466.57,"body":"power plants. So they're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1466.57,"endTime":1469.99,"body":"smaller. And you would think,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1466.57,"endTime":1469.99,"body":"okay, yeah, a smaller nuclear"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1469.99,"endTime":1476.14,"body":"plant could theoretically get"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1469.99,"endTime":1476.14,"body":"licenced, and permitted and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1476.14,"endTime":1482.68,"body":"constructed in a more timely"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1476.14,"endTime":1482.68,"body":"manner. But from what I can"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1482.68,"endTime":1487.51,"body":"tell, they're not economical."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1482.68,"endTime":1487.51,"body":"They're not faster to build than"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1487.51,"endTime":1490.75,"body":"traditional nuclear power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1487.51,"endTime":1490.75,"body":"stations, and they still have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1490.75,"endTime":1496.18,"body":"all the potential hazards that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1490.75,"endTime":1496.18,"body":"these you know existing power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1496.18,"endTime":1499.9,"body":"plants have so set the record"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1496.18,"endTime":1499.9,"body":"straight for us what our SM had"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1499.9,"endTime":1504.97,"body":"ours. Is there a there there?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1499.9,"endTime":1504.97,"body":"And and why is the US government"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1504.97,"endTime":1509.5,"body":"so excited about SM N RS? Well,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1509.89,"endTime":1512.08,"body":"I'm gonna take a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1509.89,"endTime":1512.08,"body":"little credit, I can't say I'm"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1512.08,"endTime":1515.23,"body":"the only one who has done this."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1512.08,"endTime":1515.23,"body":"But we have snuck that in into"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1515.23,"endTime":1519.3700000000001,"body":"the into the alphabet soup."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1515.23,"endTime":1519.3700000000001,"body":"They're small modular nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1519.4,"endTime":1524.1100000000001,"body":"reactors, we lost radioactive"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1519.4,"endTime":1524.1100000000001,"body":"waste because the industry it's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1524.1100000000001,"endTime":1529.15,"body":"part of the marketing aim of the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1524.1100000000001,"endTime":1529.15,"body":"industry, to anaesthetise the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1529.15,"endTime":1532.69,"body":"public into the radiation"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1529.15,"endTime":1532.69,"body":"hazards associated with nuclear."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1532.93,"endTime":1537.13,"body":"So they'll never talk about low"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1532.93,"endTime":1537.13,"body":"level radioactive waste or high"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1537.13,"endTime":1540.28,"body":"level radioactive waste. They"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1537.13,"endTime":1540.28,"body":"take the r out in all of their"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1540.28,"endTime":1543.58,"body":"official documents and all the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1540.28,"endTime":1543.58,"body":"federal definitions it's it's LR"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1543.58,"endTime":1551.44,"body":"W or excuse me. LL W or a HL"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1543.58,"endTime":1551.44,"body":"though it takes weight. Same"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1551.44,"endTime":1555.43,"body":"with with the nuclear reactors"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1551.44,"endTime":1555.43,"body":"here. SMR small modular reactors"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1555.91,"endTime":1560.5,"body":"nuclear? Yeah, don't bring up"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1555.91,"endTime":1560.5,"body":"the word. So there are words"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1560.5,"endTime":1564.34,"body":"that they will deny the public"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1560.5,"endTime":1564.34,"body":"as sort of a, you know, an"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1564.34,"endTime":1567.82,"body":"anaesthetic so you don't have to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1564.34,"endTime":1567.82,"body":"worry about the hazard of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1567.91,"endTime":1570.97,"body":"nuclear or radiation. Alright,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1567.91,"endTime":1570.97,"body":"so what are they let's back up a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1570.97,"endTime":1573.82,"body":"step. You're right. The"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1570.97,"endTime":1573.82,"body":"technology has been around a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1573.82,"endTime":1577.27,"body":"long time, technically, since"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1573.82,"endTime":1577.27,"body":"we've had a new as long as we've"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1577.27,"endTime":1581.83,"body":"had a nuclear Navy, because"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1577.27,"endTime":1581.83,"body":"those reactors are small. And"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1581.83,"endTime":1585.52,"body":"they are aboard ship. And they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1581.83,"endTime":1585.52,"body":"are of a certain design, which"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1585.52,"endTime":1589.54,"body":"got scaled up in the 1950s to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1585.52,"endTime":1589.54,"body":"the big reactors that we have"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1589.54,"endTime":1595.3,"body":"today with all of its problems."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1589.54,"endTime":1595.3,"body":"But this next wave is"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1595.63,"endTime":1600.55,"body":"qualitatively different. I'd say"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1595.63,"endTime":1600.55,"body":"over the last decade or so there"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1600.55,"endTime":1605.23,"body":"have been a plethora of designs"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1600.55,"endTime":1605.23,"body":"put forward, I believe it's up"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1605.23,"endTime":1610.33,"body":"to 70. Now, internationally"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1605.23,"endTime":1610.33,"body":"different design proposals for"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1610.33,"endTime":1615.94,"body":"the so called Small Modular"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1610.33,"endTime":1615.94,"body":"nuclear reactors. It's important"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1615.94,"endTime":1619.1200000000001,"body":"to put out some definitions and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1615.94,"endTime":1619.1200000000001,"body":"some characteristics at this"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1619.1200000000001,"endTime":1623.2,"body":"point. Even though there's no"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1619.1200000000001,"endTime":1623.2,"body":"legal definition for small"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1623.2,"endTime":1627.4,"body":"modular, it's generally"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1623.2,"endTime":1627.4,"body":"understood that a small modular"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1627.43,"endTime":1632.29,"body":"nuclear reactor will be less"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1627.43,"endTime":1632.29,"body":"than 300 megawatts in power"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1632.44,"endTime":1636.4,"body":"output, electrical power output,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1632.44,"endTime":1636.4,"body":"putting it on par with what"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1636.43,"endTime":1640.6000000000001,"body":"maybe a gas plant or a small"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1636.43,"endTime":1640.6000000000001,"body":"coal plants and output. within"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1640.6000000000001,"endTime":1643.96,"body":"that category, though, there's a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1640.6000000000001,"endTime":1643.96,"body":"further breakdown of three"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1643.96,"endTime":1651.1000000000001,"body":"types. There's just the, what we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1643.96,"endTime":1651.1000000000001,"body":"call micro nukes, which are 10"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1651.1000000000001,"endTime":1656.8,"body":"megawatts or less. These are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1651.1000000000001,"endTime":1656.8,"body":"more for research and testing"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1656.83,"endTime":1661.8700000000001,"body":"and proof of concept kinds of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1656.83,"endTime":1661.8700000000001,"body":"things. They're not designed as"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1661.8700000000001,"endTime":1665.26,"body":"power plants, you know, to put"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1661.8700000000001,"endTime":1665.26,"body":"on the grid. So below 10"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1665.26,"endTime":1668.74,"body":"megawatts, you're talking micro"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1665.26,"endTime":1668.74,"body":"news, and the University of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1668.74,"endTime":1673.63,"body":"Illinois Champaign Urbana at"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1668.74,"endTime":1673.63,"body":"this point is pursuing a test"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1673.63,"endTime":1677.98,"body":"licence for research, not for"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1673.63,"endTime":1677.98,"body":"power output at the university"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1677.98,"endTime":1683.05,"body":"campus. The next level up goes"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1677.98,"endTime":1683.05,"body":"up to about 100 megawatts. And"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1683.05,"endTime":1688.57,"body":"these are characterised as mini"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1683.05,"endTime":1688.57,"body":"news. Here, you're bouncing"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1688.57,"endTime":1691.0,"body":"between Yeah, they're big enough"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1688.57,"endTime":1691.0,"body":"where they can produce"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1691.0,"endTime":1695.65,"body":"electricity at a local level."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1691.0,"endTime":1695.65,"body":"But a lot of interest has been"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1695.65,"endTime":1698.74,"body":"put into these reactors being"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1695.65,"endTime":1698.74,"body":"able to create process steam,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1698.74,"endTime":1702.52,"body":"which can be used for industrial"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1698.74,"endTime":1702.52,"body":"processes. Finally, everything"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1702.52,"endTime":1707.08,"body":"up to 300 megawatts are just"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1702.52,"endTime":1707.08,"body":"generally the Small Modular"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1707.08,"endTime":1710.5,"body":"nuclear reactors we talk about"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1707.08,"endTime":1710.5,"body":"as the ones that would be hooked"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1710.5,"endTime":1713.44,"body":"up online to produce"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1710.5,"endTime":1713.44,"body":"electricity. There's another"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1713.44,"endTime":1717.28,"body":"category that we need to be"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1713.44,"endTime":1717.28,"body":"aware of called advanced nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1717.31,"endTime":1722.29,"body":"reactors, and all s seminars are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1717.31,"endTime":1722.29,"body":"advanced nuclear reactors, but"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1722.29,"endTime":1726.1000000000001,"body":"not all advanced nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1722.29,"endTime":1726.1000000000001,"body":"reactors are SN ours, because"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1726.22,"endTime":1729.94,"body":"some of them can be as large as"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1726.22,"endTime":1729.94,"body":"today's power plants, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1730.3600000000001,"endTime":1733.99,"body":"hundreds of megawatts in size,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1730.3600000000001,"endTime":1733.99,"body":"and be hooked up to the electric"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1733.99,"endTime":1738.13,"body":"grid, they have different"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1733.99,"endTime":1738.13,"body":"characteristics to but these are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1738.13,"endTime":1741.52,"body":"enshrined in federal law, they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1738.13,"endTime":1741.52,"body":"have to meet these various"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1742.15,"endTime":1744.6100000000001,"body":"traits, or they're not"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1742.15,"endTime":1744.6100000000001,"body":"considered advanced reactors."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1745.06,"endTime":1747.16,"body":"And I'll get to the importance"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1745.06,"endTime":1747.16,"body":"of that a little bit later in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1747.16,"endTime":1747.91,"body":"our discussion,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1748.09,"endTime":1751.75,"body":"there is a nice"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1748.09,"endTime":1751.75,"body":"Wikipedia page on us MNR. So if"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1751.75,"endTime":1756.76,"body":"you just go to Wikipedia, and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1751.75,"endTime":1756.76,"body":"search on SMR, you'll find that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1756.76,"endTime":1760.06,"body":"page with all the different"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1756.76,"endTime":1760.06,"body":"companies and countries that are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1760.06,"endTime":1764.74,"body":"in the game, so to speak. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1760.06,"endTime":1764.74,"body":"what's going on in the US around"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1764.77,"endTime":1766.39,"body":"SM? Nr stave."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1766.84,"endTime":1773.3500000000001,"body":"So what's happening"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1766.84,"endTime":1773.3500000000001,"body":"here? We would probably say, the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1773.3500000000001,"endTime":1776.98,"body":"flurry of activity about small"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1773.3500000000001,"endTime":1776.98,"body":"modular nuclear reactors began"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1777.25,"endTime":1780.46,"body":"with the Biden administration."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1777.25,"endTime":1780.46,"body":"This is one of the more pro"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1780.46,"endTime":1785.92,"body":"nuclear administrations we have"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1780.46,"endTime":1785.92,"body":"seen in decades, they are going"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1785.92,"endTime":1789.82,"body":"full tilt to vitalize revitalise"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1785.92,"endTime":1789.82,"body":"the nuclear industry at almost"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1789.82,"endTime":1793.18,"body":"all levels. And one of the big"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1789.82,"endTime":1793.18,"body":"levels, of course, is to promote"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1793.18,"endTime":1796.81,"body":"small modular nuclear reactors."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1793.18,"endTime":1796.81,"body":"We saw that with the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1796.81,"endTime":1801.28,"body":"infrastructure act. And with the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1796.81,"endTime":1801.28,"body":"IRA legislation that passed over"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1801.28,"endTime":1803.95,"body":"the last couple of years, some"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1801.28,"endTime":1803.95,"body":"of our colleagues have"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1803.95,"endTime":1808.57,"body":"calculated out that if some of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1803.95,"endTime":1808.57,"body":"those loans are our loan"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1808.57,"endTime":1811.72,"body":"guarantees and things are all"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1808.57,"endTime":1811.72,"body":"cumulatively added up, we're"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1811.72,"endTime":1816.13,"body":"talking on the order of $200"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1811.72,"endTime":1816.13,"body":"billion worth of investment"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1816.13,"endTime":1820.21,"body":"going towards nuclear power from"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1816.13,"endTime":1820.21,"body":"the various legislation that's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1820.21,"endTime":1824.56,"body":"out there. You layer on to that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1820.21,"endTime":1824.56,"body":"the Department of Energy grants"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1824.56,"endTime":1828.1000000000001,"body":"which are are being led right"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1824.56,"endTime":1828.1000000000001,"body":"now to various institutions like"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1828.1000000000001,"endTime":1833.74,"body":"University of Illinois, Purdue,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1828.1000000000001,"endTime":1833.74,"body":"Texas, Christian Abilene, who"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1833.74,"endTime":1837.94,"body":"wants to do the micro nukes for"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1833.74,"endTime":1837.94,"body":"research. And what we see going"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1837.94,"endTime":1843.52,"body":"on here is, you know, a huge"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1837.94,"endTime":1843.52,"body":"money trough where everybody"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1843.52,"endTime":1846.82,"body":"wants to get in on the feeding"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1843.52,"endTime":1846.82,"body":"frenzy. So this is one of the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1846.82,"endTime":1850.69,"body":"big drivers for small nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1846.82,"endTime":1850.69,"body":"right now is the fact that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1850.69,"endTime":1854.17,"body":"there's so much money being"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1850.69,"endTime":1854.17,"body":"thrown at it. The second is,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1854.59,"endTime":1858.43,"body":"there has been a an extremely"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1854.59,"endTime":1858.43,"body":"well orchestrated, and I mean,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1858.43,"endTime":1861.49,"body":"professionally orchestrated"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1858.43,"endTime":1861.49,"body":"public relations campaign going"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1861.49,"endTime":1865.03,"body":"on for the last two years,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1861.49,"endTime":1865.03,"body":"involving both the nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1865.03,"endTime":1869.8600000000001,"body":"industry and allies in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1865.03,"endTime":1869.8600000000001,"body":"government like the Secretary of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1869.8600000000001,"endTime":1873.28,"body":"Energy grant home, going around"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1869.8600000000001,"endTime":1873.28,"body":"the country doing this pro"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1873.28,"endTime":1878.3500000000001,"body":"nuclear Spiel everywhere she she"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1873.28,"endTime":1878.3500000000001,"body":"goes, it is really a solid"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1878.38,"endTime":1883.48,"body":"effort. They have been working"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1878.38,"endTime":1883.48,"body":"with some of the pro nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1884.05,"endTime":1887.2,"body":"grassroots organisations like"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1884.05,"endTime":1887.2,"body":"Michael Shellenberger his group,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1888.49,"endTime":1894.31,"body":"to get into every state that has"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1888.49,"endTime":1894.31,"body":"a moratorium on building new"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1894.31,"endTime":1897.76,"body":"reactors, like Illinois does,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1894.31,"endTime":1897.76,"body":"and get those moratoriums"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1897.76,"endTime":1902.26,"body":"repealed as soon as possible to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1897.76,"endTime":1902.26,"body":"open the door for the floodgates"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1902.26,"endTime":1907.0,"body":"no have expected Small Modular"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1902.26,"endTime":1907.0,"body":"nuclear reactors. So these guys"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1907.0,"endTime":1909.46,"body":"are putting out the full court"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1907.0,"endTime":1909.46,"body":"press at every level, you can"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1909.46,"endTime":1914.23,"body":"imagine public relations,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1909.46,"endTime":1914.23,"body":"government law, and certainly"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1914.23,"endTime":1918.55,"body":"finance. There is another"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1914.23,"endTime":1918.55,"body":"investigation ongoing. This is"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1918.55,"endTime":1922.42,"body":"privately done. We don't have"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1918.55,"endTime":1922.42,"body":"any details yet on it. But who's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1922.42,"endTime":1926.17,"body":"the big money behind this and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1922.42,"endTime":1926.17,"body":"why. And when you take a look at"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1926.17,"endTime":1929.41,"body":"some of the big mouth investors"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1926.17,"endTime":1929.41,"body":"like Bill Gates, and some of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1929.41,"endTime":1933.22,"body":"that ilk, you'll see that not"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1929.41,"endTime":1933.22,"body":"only are they putting some of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1933.22,"endTime":1936.8500000000001,"body":"their money up on it, and for"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1933.22,"endTime":1936.8500000000001,"body":"it, but they're more than happy"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1936.8500000000001,"endTime":1940.0,"body":"to feed it the federal trough"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1936.8500000000001,"endTime":1940.0,"body":"for the research grants at DOD"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1940.0,"endTime":1943.27,"body":"and elsewhere. Whether the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1940.0,"endTime":1943.27,"body":"project works or not, they're"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1943.27,"endTime":1947.14,"body":"still going to get paid. So that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1943.27,"endTime":1947.14,"body":"is another driving force on the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1947.14,"endTime":1949.93,"body":"nuclear front. And of course,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1947.14,"endTime":1949.93,"body":"they're all hanging their hat on"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1949.93,"endTime":1955.24,"body":"the climate crisis is the reason"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1949.93,"endTime":1955.24,"body":"why we should do this. So that's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1955.3,"endTime":1959.89,"body":"the push. That's how things are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1955.3,"endTime":1959.89,"body":"moving. And in Illinois, over"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1959.89,"endTime":1962.56,"body":"the last two years, we've had"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1959.89,"endTime":1962.56,"body":"legislation introduced both in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1962.56,"endTime":1965.5,"body":"the House and the Senate, which"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1962.56,"endTime":1965.5,"body":"would repeal the Illinois"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1965.5,"endTime":1969.1000000000001,"body":"nuclear construction moratorium."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1965.5,"endTime":1969.1000000000001,"body":"And we have testified at every"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1969.1000000000001,"endTime":1975.01,"body":"hearing regarding that. And what"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1969.1000000000001,"endTime":1975.01,"body":"we found is that in every case,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1976.21,"endTime":1980.6200000000001,"body":"the the moratorium, the law"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1976.21,"endTime":1980.6200000000001,"body":"itself, which is very simple, it"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1980.6200000000001,"endTime":1985.84,"body":"says Illinois will not build any"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1980.6200000000001,"endTime":1985.84,"body":"nuclear plants until the federal"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1985.84,"endTime":1988.81,"body":"government has a place to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1985.84,"endTime":1988.81,"body":"dispose of the high level"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1988.81,"endTime":1993.1000000000001,"body":"radioactive waste. Now, how long"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1988.81,"endTime":1993.1000000000001,"body":"did that take me to say? That's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1993.1000000000001,"endTime":1996.34,"body":"the law. That's it? That's the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1993.1000000000001,"endTime":1996.34,"body":"moratorium. It's kind of common"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1996.34,"endTime":2000.21,"body":"sense. We joked about it many"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":1996.34,"endTime":2000.21,"body":"times saying, you know, what, if"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2000.21,"endTime":2003.51,"body":"in Chicago, we built the SIL"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2000.21,"endTime":2003.51,"body":"Sears tower without bathrooms?"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2003.84,"endTime":2006.66,"body":"Where would we be today be a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2003.84,"endTime":2006.66,"body":"qualitatively different"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2006.66,"endTime":2011.07,"body":"building. That's exactly what"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2006.66,"endTime":2011.07,"body":"the nuclear industry has been"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2011.07,"endTime":2015.63,"body":"allowed to do. And apparently"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2011.07,"endTime":2015.63,"body":"will be continued to allow to be"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2015.63,"endTime":2018.99,"body":"allowed to do with small"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2015.63,"endTime":2018.99,"body":"modulars are built. So at every"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2018.99,"endTime":2022.8600000000001,"body":"hearing, no talk about"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2018.99,"endTime":2022.8600000000001,"body":"radioactive waste, or very"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2022.8600000000001,"endTime":2026.13,"body":"little. And it all shifted over"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2022.8600000000001,"endTime":2026.13,"body":"to expert witnesses about how"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2026.13,"endTime":2029.67,"body":"great small modulars are. Now,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2026.13,"endTime":2029.67,"body":"what's the problem swamp"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2029.67,"endTime":2035.16,"body":"heifers, we listed about eight"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2029.67,"endTime":2035.16,"body":"or 10. Of these, and we hope"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2035.16,"endTime":2040.29,"body":"that your listeners will"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2035.16,"endTime":2040.29,"body":"appreciate this. You know, it"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2040.29,"endTime":2045.96,"body":"just boggle the mind, the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2040.29,"endTime":2045.96,"body":"willingness to not believe your"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2045.96,"endTime":2049.5899999999997,"body":"lying eyes and ears on the part"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2045.96,"endTime":2049.5899999999997,"body":"of legislators to push this"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2049.5899999999997,"endTime":2052.95,"body":"legislation forward. The first"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2049.5899999999997,"endTime":2052.95,"body":"thing, you know, we have been"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2052.95,"endTime":2057.33,"body":"talking about small modulars is"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2052.95,"endTime":2057.33,"body":"if they really exist, they don't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2057.93,"endTime":2061.92,"body":"at least not in the United"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2057.93,"endTime":2061.92,"body":"States. Worldwide. I think there"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2061.92,"endTime":2066.0299999999997,"body":"are only two in operation. One"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2061.92,"endTime":2066.0299999999997,"body":"is in Russia, I forget I think"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2066.0299999999997,"endTime":2070.23,"body":"China might have the other one."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2066.0299999999997,"endTime":2070.23,"body":"And even though there are about"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2070.23,"endTime":2075.33,"body":"a dozen outfits that are putting"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2070.23,"endTime":2075.33,"body":"licence applications in with the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2075.33,"endTime":2078.8399999999997,"body":"Nuclear Regulatory Commission"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2075.33,"endTime":2078.8399999999997,"body":"for their designs, only one of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2078.8399999999997,"endTime":2082.17,"body":"those designs has been approved"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2078.8399999999997,"endTime":2082.17,"body":"by a company called New Scale."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2083.31,"endTime":2088.68,"body":"And a new scales website. They"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2083.31,"endTime":2088.68,"body":"say that the first and only"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2088.68,"endTime":2095.64,"body":"demonstrator won't be ready"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2088.68,"endTime":2095.64,"body":"until December of 2029. So I"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2095.64,"endTime":2098.73,"body":"want to get across the idea that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2095.64,"endTime":2098.73,"body":"even though we're talking about"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2098.79,"endTime":2105.15,"body":"SMS cars, they are fairy tales."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2098.79,"endTime":2105.15,"body":"They don't exist. So we can't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2105.15,"endTime":2108.21,"body":"use language that kind of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2105.15,"endTime":2108.21,"body":"reinforces the fact that they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2108.21,"endTime":2111.9,"body":"do, which is what you hear when"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2108.21,"endTime":2111.9,"body":"you hear all these wonderful"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2111.9,"endTime":2114.78,"body":"reports about what small buy"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2111.9,"endTime":2114.78,"body":"dealers are doing or supposed to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2114.78,"endTime":2118.5,"body":"be doing. They're not doing it"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2114.78,"endTime":2118.5,"body":"because they don't exist. These"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2118.5,"endTime":2122.67,"body":"are theoretical concepts. They"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2118.5,"endTime":2122.67,"body":"are designs, they are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2122.67,"endTime":2126.75,"body":"PowerPoints. They are slick"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2122.67,"endTime":2126.75,"body":"marketing brochures, and none of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2126.75,"endTime":2132.33,"body":"those contribute to our"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2126.75,"endTime":2132.33,"body":"electrical grid. They are the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2132.33,"endTime":2136.23,"body":"fevered imaginations of a very"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2132.33,"endTime":2136.23,"body":"earnest engineers. That's it."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2136.98,"endTime":2140.01,"body":"And they won't exist as"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2136.98,"endTime":2140.01,"body":"demonstrators until the end of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2140.01,"endTime":2144.0,"body":"this decade. Which means if you"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2140.01,"endTime":2144.0,"body":"add another five to 10 years for"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2144.0,"endTime":2148.08,"body":"commercialization to that they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2144.0,"endTime":2148.08,"body":"won't even be able to address"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2148.08,"endTime":2152.2200000000003,"body":"anything on the climate issue"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2148.08,"endTime":2152.2200000000003,"body":"until the 2030s or 2040s, when"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2152.2200000000003,"endTime":2155.9100000000003,"body":"it'll be too late, according to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2152.2200000000003,"endTime":2155.9100000000003,"body":"the IPCC. So let's take the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2155.9100000000003,"endTime":2159.4500000000003,"body":"climate issue completely off the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2155.9100000000003,"endTime":2159.4500000000003,"body":"table. Small modules don't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2159.4500000000003,"endTime":2163.17,"body":"exist, they will not contribute"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2159.4500000000003,"endTime":2163.17,"body":"in any meaningful way to the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2163.17,"endTime":2168.42,"body":"climate crisis. Dave craft isn't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2163.17,"endTime":2168.42,"body":"saying so. Gregory artscow,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2168.6600000000003,"endTime":2171.21,"body":"physicist, former chairman of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2168.6600000000003,"endTime":2171.21,"body":"the Nuclear Regulatory"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2171.21,"endTime":2176.9700000000003,"body":"Commission says so. Dr. Allison"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2171.21,"endTime":2176.9700000000003,"body":"McFarland, geologist, former"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2176.9700000000003,"endTime":2180.1200000000003,"body":"chairwoman of the Nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2176.9700000000003,"endTime":2180.1200000000003,"body":"Regulatory Commission, says so,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2180.57,"endTime":2183.9900000000002,"body":"and a host of other energy"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2180.57,"endTime":2183.9900000000002,"body":"analysts from Germany, Great"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2183.9900000000002,"endTime":2189.6600000000003,"body":"Britain, France, internationally"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2183.9900000000002,"endTime":2189.6600000000003,"body":"have said, small modulars are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2189.6600000000003,"endTime":2193.05,"body":"not suited to deal in any"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2189.6600000000003,"endTime":2193.05,"body":"meaningful way with the climate"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2193.05,"endTime":2196.4100000000003,"body":"crisis. So that's the first"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2193.05,"endTime":2196.4100000000003,"body":"thing they're fairy tales. In"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2196.4100000000003,"endTime":2200.2500000000005,"body":"fact, we had a joke about this."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2196.4100000000003,"endTime":2200.2500000000005,"body":"How are small modulars and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2200.2500000000005,"endTime":2205.5600000000004,"body":"unicorns are like They don't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2200.2500000000005,"endTime":2205.5600000000004,"body":"exist. How are they different?"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2206.5800000000004,"endTime":2213.9300000000003,"body":"unicorn poop doesn't last for"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2206.5800000000004,"endTime":2213.9300000000003,"body":"250,000 years. So we really got"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2213.9300000000003,"endTime":2216.7200000000003,"body":"to get across the people. We're"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2213.9300000000003,"endTime":2216.7200000000003,"body":"talking fantasyland right now."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2217.38,"endTime":2220.5000000000005,"body":"And we're hitching an energy"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2217.38,"endTime":2220.5000000000005,"body":"policy to a product that might"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2220.5000000000005,"endTime":2224.4300000000003,"body":"not even work. So let's move on."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2220.5000000000005,"endTime":2224.4300000000003,"body":"What are some of the other"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2224.4300000000003,"endTime":2226.9800000000005,"body":"problems you actually already"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2224.4300000000003,"endTime":2226.9800000000005,"body":"said a few of them from what"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2226.9800000000005,"endTime":2232.86,"body":"you've read. The Small Modular"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2226.9800000000005,"endTime":2232.86,"body":"proposals as designed, already"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2232.86,"endTime":2238.05,"body":"had been shown to be more"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2232.86,"endTime":2238.05,"body":"expensive per unit of energy"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2238.05,"endTime":2241.26,"body":"produced, even compared to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2238.05,"endTime":2241.26,"body":"today's nuclear plants, which"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2241.26,"endTime":2244.53,"body":"required bailouts to keep"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2241.26,"endTime":2244.53,"body":"operating. You might remember,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2244.92,"endTime":2248.76,"body":"in Illinois, ratepayers are on"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2244.92,"endTime":2248.76,"body":"the hook for over $3 billion"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2249.3,"endTime":2253.86,"body":"worth of bailout guarantees to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2249.3,"endTime":2253.86,"body":"constellation power for the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2253.86,"endTime":2256.17,"body":"nuclear plants we have in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2253.86,"endTime":2256.17,"body":"Illinois, because he couldn't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2256.17,"endTime":2259.6200000000003,"body":"cut it in the market. They can't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2256.17,"endTime":2259.6200000000003,"body":"compete. Now we're going to add"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2259.6200000000003,"endTime":2263.55,"body":"more nuclear reactors to that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2259.6200000000003,"endTime":2263.55,"body":"mix, they won't be able to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2263.55,"endTime":2266.61,"body":"compete either. So guess what's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2263.55,"endTime":2266.61,"body":"going to happen? The companies"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2266.61,"endTime":2271.2900000000004,"body":"will go to the legislature and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2266.61,"endTime":2271.2900000000004,"body":"say, oh, we need jobs. Oh, we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2271.2900000000004,"endTime":2274.9800000000005,"body":"need energy bail us out. A"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2271.2900000000004,"endTime":2274.9800000000005,"body":"National Academy of Sciences"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2274.9800000000005,"endTime":2278.82,"body":"report for last year. One of the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2274.9800000000005,"endTime":2278.82,"body":"participants was the former"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2278.82,"endTime":2281.4,"body":"chairwoman of the Nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2278.82,"endTime":2281.4,"body":"Regulatory Commission, Alison"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2281.4,"endTime":2285.9900000000002,"body":"McFarlane, they concluded that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2281.4,"endTime":2285.9900000000002,"body":"again, per unit of energy, small"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2285.9900000000002,"endTime":2290.61,"body":"modulars could produce up to 18"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2285.9900000000002,"endTime":2290.61,"body":"times more radioactive waste"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2290.88,"endTime":2294.09,"body":"than today's nuclear reactors,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2290.88,"endTime":2294.09,"body":"which have no place to dispose"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2294.09,"endTime":2297.8100000000004,"body":"of the waste that we have. We"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2294.09,"endTime":2297.8100000000004,"body":"have 11,000 tonnes of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2297.8100000000004,"endTime":2302.1600000000003,"body":"radioactive waste in Illinois"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2297.8100000000004,"endTime":2302.1600000000003,"body":"now. The industry wants to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2302.1600000000003,"endTime":2304.8300000000004,"body":"extend their operating licences,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2302.1600000000003,"endTime":2304.8300000000004,"body":"which will almost double that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2304.8300000000004,"endTime":2305.34,"body":"amount."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2305.9990000000003,"endTime":2313.6490000000003,"body":"So let's let's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2305.9990000000003,"endTime":2313.6490000000003,"body":"summarise the challenges that we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2313.6490000000003,"endTime":2319.0190000000002,"body":"face with SM N RS. They include"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2313.6490000000003,"endTime":2319.0190000000002,"body":"the basic cost of a technology"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2319.0190000000002,"endTime":2324.0890000000004,"body":"which can be upwards of $15 a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2319.0190000000002,"endTime":2324.0890000000004,"body":"watt, build a solar or wind"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2324.0890000000004,"endTime":2331.0490000000004,"body":"facility at utility scale for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2324.0890000000004,"endTime":2331.0490000000004,"body":"three to six cents. And so the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2331.0490000000004,"endTime":2335.849,"body":"cost is up is front and centre."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2331.0490000000004,"endTime":2335.849,"body":"But there's the waste issue."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2336.179,"endTime":2339.7490000000003,"body":"There's the proliferation"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2336.179,"endTime":2339.7490000000003,"body":"issues, and of course, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2339.9590000000003,"endTime":2346.2590000000005,"body":"potential of nuclear disasters."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2339.9590000000003,"endTime":2346.2590000000005,"body":"So why don't you just run"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2346.2590000000005,"endTime":2350.489,"body":"through those four things in a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2346.2590000000005,"endTime":2350.489,"body":"timely manner? Dave, if you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2350.489,"endTime":2351.5690000000004,"body":"would? Sure."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2352.3500000000004,"endTime":2356.6400000000003,"body":"So as we've already"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2352.3500000000004,"endTime":2356.6400000000003,"body":"been discussing, economically,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2356.7000000000003,"endTime":2361.6200000000003,"body":"they're not as, as good as they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2356.7000000000003,"endTime":2361.6200000000003,"body":"proposed to be with their"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2361.8,"endTime":2365.9700000000003,"body":"modularity. It's been calculated"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2361.8,"endTime":2365.9700000000003,"body":"that on a per kilowatt hour"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2365.9700000000003,"endTime":2369.5400000000004,"body":"basis, they'll be more expensive"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2365.9700000000003,"endTime":2369.5400000000004,"body":"than today's nukes, which means,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2369.5400000000004,"endTime":2372.1200000000003,"body":"of course, that there'll be more"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2369.5400000000004,"endTime":2372.1200000000003,"body":"expensive than renewables that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2372.1200000000003,"endTime":2375.69,"body":"are available today as well, in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2372.1200000000003,"endTime":2375.69,"body":"terms of radioactive waste,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2376.1400000000003,"endTime":2380.4900000000002,"body":"National Academy of Sciences"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2376.1400000000003,"endTime":2380.4900000000002,"body":"report of 2022 indicates that on"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2380.4900000000002,"endTime":2384.7500000000005,"body":"again, on a per unit of energy"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2380.4900000000002,"endTime":2384.7500000000005,"body":"basis, these reactors could"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2384.7500000000005,"endTime":2389.8500000000004,"body":"produce as much as 18 times more"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2384.7500000000005,"endTime":2389.8500000000004,"body":"radioactive waste than today's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2389.8500000000004,"endTime":2393.5400000000004,"body":"generation of reactors. So from"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2389.8500000000004,"endTime":2393.5400000000004,"body":"the waste standpoint, if you"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2393.5400000000004,"endTime":2398.3100000000004,"body":"repeal the moratorium in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2393.5400000000004,"endTime":2398.3100000000004,"body":"Illinois, it's a wide open, you"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2398.3100000000004,"endTime":2401.3100000000004,"body":"know, barn door to keep reducing"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2398.3100000000004,"endTime":2401.3100000000004,"body":"waste in perpetuity, with no"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2401.3100000000004,"endTime":2404.55,"body":"place to go. And it will just"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2401.3100000000004,"endTime":2404.55,"body":"end up storing it forever here"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2404.55,"endTime":2409.4100000000003,"body":"in the state. So waste is a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2404.55,"endTime":2409.4100000000003,"body":"definite issue on that. One of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2409.4100000000003,"endTime":2412.05,"body":"the ways they claim they're"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2409.4100000000003,"endTime":2412.05,"body":"going to try and be more"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2412.05,"endTime":2415.59,"body":"economical, though, are two of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2412.05,"endTime":2415.59,"body":"the ways I should say, these"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2415.59,"endTime":2418.44,"body":"reactors are being proposed"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2415.59,"endTime":2418.44,"body":"without containment buildings,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2418.7700000000004,"endTime":2422.55,"body":"they claim their designs are so"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2418.7700000000004,"endTime":2422.55,"body":"safe, nothing could go wrong."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2423.78,"endTime":2427.8,"body":"Like with the Titanic, I"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2423.78,"endTime":2427.8,"body":"suppose. So there there are not"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2427.8,"endTime":2432.3900000000003,"body":"any of these very robust is the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2427.8,"endTime":2432.3900000000003,"body":"term the industry uses buildings"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2432.3900000000003,"endTime":2435.4800000000005,"body":"built around them. In some"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2432.3900000000003,"endTime":2435.4800000000005,"body":"cases, they actually intend to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2435.4800000000005,"endTime":2438.57,"body":"build the reactors underground,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2435.4800000000005,"endTime":2438.57,"body":"or below grade, at the very"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2438.57,"endTime":2444.84,"body":"least, whatever we juxtapose"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2438.57,"endTime":2444.84,"body":"those designs, with the craters"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2444.8700000000003,"endTime":2448.4700000000003,"body":"that we got off of YouTube, in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2444.8700000000003,"endTime":2448.4700000000003,"body":"the industrial district of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2448.4700000000003,"endTime":2453.51,"body":"Mariupol, Ukraine, just to show"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2448.4700000000003,"endTime":2453.51,"body":"the equivalence of depth, you"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2453.51,"endTime":2457.26,"body":"know, had had Ukraine gotten"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2453.51,"endTime":2457.26,"body":"small modulars, 10 years ago and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2457.26,"endTime":2460.8300000000004,"body":"put them in Mariupol. There"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2457.26,"endTime":2460.8300000000004,"body":"wouldn't be anybody able to get"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2460.8300000000004,"endTime":2465.15,"body":"near Mario pool because of the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2460.8300000000004,"endTime":2465.15,"body":"radiation contamination, because"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2465.1800000000003,"endTime":2469.4700000000003,"body":"of being in a war zone, and no"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2465.1800000000003,"endTime":2469.4700000000003,"body":"containment. Another way they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2469.4700000000003,"endTime":2472.6200000000003,"body":"claim they're going to reduce"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2469.4700000000003,"endTime":2472.6200000000003,"body":"costs is by reducing staff. You"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2472.6200000000003,"endTime":2476.67,"body":"don't need as many staff members"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2472.6200000000003,"endTime":2476.67,"body":"to run these reactors. And"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2476.7900000000004,"endTime":2480.1800000000003,"body":"because they're so safe, you"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2476.7900000000004,"endTime":2480.1800000000003,"body":"don't even need a security force"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2480.1800000000003,"endTime":2483.7500000000005,"body":"anymore. So there are literally"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2480.1800000000003,"endTime":2483.7500000000005,"body":"some designs that are being put"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2483.7500000000005,"endTime":2487.8900000000003,"body":"out there without any kind of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2483.7500000000005,"endTime":2487.8900000000003,"body":"security, you know, other than"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2487.92,"endTime":2492.3300000000004,"body":"whatever you have locally, and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2487.92,"endTime":2492.3300000000004,"body":"with fewer operators manning the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2492.36,"endTime":2499.2300000000005,"body":"manning the ship, this is absurd"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2492.36,"endTime":2499.2300000000005,"body":"to us. We just, we just don't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2499.2300000000005,"endTime":2502.59,"body":"understand how they can get away"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2499.2300000000005,"endTime":2502.59,"body":"with a straight face making He's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2502.59,"endTime":2507.5400000000004,"body":"claims without having any"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2502.59,"endTime":2507.5400000000004,"body":"designs to show that it's true"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2507.5400000000004,"endTime":2513.84,"body":"or not. So you were trading away"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2507.5400000000004,"endTime":2513.84,"body":"safety. For a legend reduced"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2513.84,"endTime":2517.8900000000003,"body":"costs, you don't know, we would"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2513.84,"endTime":2517.8900000000003,"body":"point out that there are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2517.8900000000003,"endTime":2520.0800000000004,"body":"environmental justice"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2517.8900000000003,"endTime":2520.0800000000004,"body":"considerations, because again,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2520.0800000000004,"endTime":2523.1400000000003,"body":"you're going to continue to need"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2520.0800000000004,"endTime":2523.1400000000003,"body":"uranium in some form. And"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2523.1400000000003,"endTime":2526.3500000000004,"body":"uranium mining is done"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2523.1400000000003,"endTime":2526.3500000000004,"body":"internationally on largely"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2526.3500000000004,"endTime":2529.5600000000004,"body":"indigenous lands, which already"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2526.3500000000004,"endTime":2529.5600000000004,"body":"have not been cleaned up from"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2529.5600000000004,"endTime":2532.5600000000004,"body":"the previous generation of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2529.5600000000004,"endTime":2532.5600000000004,"body":"nuclear power. But one other"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2532.5600000000004,"endTime":2535.86,"body":"aspect of the fuel that hasn't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2532.5600000000004,"endTime":2535.86,"body":"been discussed as at least"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2535.86,"endTime":2539.88,"body":"currently, the reactor designs"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2535.86,"endTime":2539.88,"body":"that they're proposed to use"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2540.5400000000004,"endTime":2545.5800000000004,"body":"require a very special fuel call"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2540.5400000000004,"endTime":2545.5800000000004,"body":"hallouwe High assay low enriched"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2545.5800000000004,"endTime":2549.1200000000003,"body":"uranium, this is not the same"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2545.5800000000004,"endTime":2549.1200000000003,"body":"kind of fuel that you put in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2549.1200000000003,"endTime":2553.2300000000005,"body":"today's reactors, which maybe"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2549.1200000000003,"endTime":2553.2300000000005,"body":"have an enrichment value of 4%,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2553.8300000000004,"endTime":2559.8,"body":"meaning that the fuel in there"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2553.8300000000004,"endTime":2559.8,"body":"had to be juiced up by certain"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2559.8,"endTime":2563.1000000000004,"body":"technical processes before it"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2559.8,"endTime":2563.1000000000004,"body":"can be used as reactor fuel."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2564.42,"endTime":2569.1600000000003,"body":"hallouwe can go up to 20%,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2564.42,"endTime":2569.1600000000003,"body":"almost five times as much, which"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2569.1600000000003,"endTime":2573.4500000000003,"body":"puts it just on the borderline"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2569.1600000000003,"endTime":2573.4500000000003,"body":"between what would be used"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2573.4500000000003,"endTime":2577.17,"body":"commercially for power plants,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2573.4500000000003,"endTime":2577.17,"body":"and what could begin to be used"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2577.2000000000003,"endTime":2582.09,"body":"for nuclear weapons. And these"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2577.2000000000003,"endTime":2582.09,"body":"people want to shop these"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2582.09,"endTime":2586.44,"body":"reactors around the world and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2582.09,"endTime":2586.44,"body":"put them in Walmart's and large"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2586.44,"endTime":2589.8,"body":"facilities around the world as"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2586.44,"endTime":2589.8,"body":"if nothing could go wrong using"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2589.8,"endTime":2593.88,"body":"this fuel. And the last joke on"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2589.8,"endTime":2593.88,"body":"us is that the only source of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2593.88,"endTime":2599.46,"body":"Hallelu fuel right now in the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2593.88,"endTime":2599.46,"body":"United States is Russia. And I"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2599.46,"endTime":2602.01,"body":"thought we were supposed to be"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2599.46,"endTime":2602.01,"body":"having an embargo on their"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2602.01,"endTime":2607.5600000000004,"body":"products. So the whole chain"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2602.01,"endTime":2607.5600000000004,"body":"from fuel manufacturer from"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2607.5600000000004,"endTime":2612.69,"body":"promises for reactors that don't"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2607.5600000000004,"endTime":2612.69,"body":"risk is so imaginary and so"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2612.69,"endTime":2616.86,"body":"Orwellian, as to almost be"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2612.69,"endTime":2616.86,"body":"laughable except the Biden"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2616.86,"endTime":2619.9800000000005,"body":"administration is willing to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2616.86,"endTime":2619.9800000000005,"body":"pour 10s of billions of dollars"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2619.9800000000005,"endTime":2623.28,"body":"into making it happen. And the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2619.9800000000005,"endTime":2623.28,"body":"nuclear industry is willing to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2623.28,"endTime":2626.3700000000003,"body":"go around to places like"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2623.28,"endTime":2626.3700000000003,"body":"Illinois to get the moratoriums"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2626.3700000000003,"endTime":2629.5800000000004,"body":"repealed, so that these people"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2626.3700000000003,"endTime":2629.5800000000004,"body":"can go ahead with their designs."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2630.15,"endTime":2636.51,"body":"So clearly, it's a it's a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2630.15,"endTime":2636.51,"body":"monster with no leash that is"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2636.51,"endTime":2637.53,"body":"being proposed here."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2638.1890000000003,"endTime":2642.179,"body":"The moratoriums So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2638.1890000000003,"endTime":2642.179,"body":"my understanding is Illinois"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2642.179,"endTime":2646.889,"body":"passed a moratorium on new"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2642.179,"endTime":2646.889,"body":"nuclear construction in 1987."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2647.8190000000004,"endTime":2653.3990000000003,"body":"And that was an important"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2647.8190000000004,"endTime":2653.3990000000003,"body":"watermark, because it literally"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2653.579,"endTime":2658.4990000000003,"body":"prevents new facilities from"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2653.579,"endTime":2658.4990000000003,"body":"being designed and developed in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2658.4990000000003,"endTime":2662.5490000000004,"body":"Illinois. Now that moratorium"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2658.4990000000003,"endTime":2662.5490000000004,"body":"has been repealed or is in the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2662.5490000000004,"endTime":2663.8990000000003,"body":"process of being repealed."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2664.2900000000004,"endTime":2667.92,"body":"It's in the process"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2664.2900000000004,"endTime":2667.92,"body":"and both in 2022. And in this"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2667.92,"endTime":2671.55,"body":"legislative session, the pro"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2667.92,"endTime":2671.55,"body":"nuclear folks that put the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2671.55,"endTime":2675.96,"body":"hardcore push to get the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2671.55,"endTime":2675.96,"body":"moratorium repealed. As of our"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2675.96,"endTime":2679.5600000000004,"body":"taping today, we're winding down"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2675.96,"endTime":2679.5600000000004,"body":"the legislative session, it'll"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2679.5600000000004,"endTime":2683.82,"body":"end on this Friday, May 19. They"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2679.5600000000004,"endTime":2683.82,"body":"have not been able to get the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2683.82,"endTime":2687.3300000000004,"body":"bill and move forward. It did"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2683.82,"endTime":2687.3300000000004,"body":"sail through every committee"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2688.53,"endTime":2691.26,"body":"hearing that they had, and they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2688.53,"endTime":2691.26,"body":"have four of them. But they're"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2691.26,"endTime":2693.9900000000002,"body":"all in the Public Utilities"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2691.26,"endTime":2693.9900000000002,"body":"committees of the House and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2693.9900000000002,"endTime":2698.55,"body":"Senate, and not the Energy and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2693.9900000000002,"endTime":2698.55,"body":"Environment committees. So these"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2698.5800000000004,"endTime":2701.5200000000004,"body":"not only that, but half of the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2698.5800000000004,"endTime":2701.5200000000004,"body":"members of both of those energy"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2701.55,"endTime":2704.5200000000004,"body":"of the Public Utilities"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2701.55,"endTime":2704.5200000000004,"body":"committees, were co sponsors of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2704.5200000000004,"endTime":2707.88,"body":"the bill to get the moratorium"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2704.5200000000004,"endTime":2707.88,"body":"repealed. So you can see that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2707.88,"endTime":2711.3900000000003,"body":"the deck was already politically"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2707.88,"endTime":2711.3900000000003,"body":"stacked. When we went into these"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2711.3900000000003,"endTime":2715.32,"body":"hearings. There were some"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2711.3900000000003,"endTime":2715.32,"body":"legitimate concerns that some"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2715.32,"endTime":2719.2500000000005,"body":"people raised like the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2715.32,"endTime":2719.2500000000005,"body":"reliability of and the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2719.2500000000005,"endTime":2722.6400000000003,"body":"availability of power in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2719.2500000000005,"endTime":2722.6400000000003,"body":"downstate Illinois, and the miso"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2722.6400000000003,"endTime":2726.03,"body":"region, which is much different"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2722.6400000000003,"endTime":2726.03,"body":"than northern Illinois, where we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2726.03,"endTime":2729.15,"body":"have most of the nuclear plants"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2726.03,"endTime":2729.15,"body":"now, which is in a region called"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2729.15,"endTime":2733.65,"body":"PJM. That was a legitimate"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2729.15,"endTime":2733.65,"body":"concern, and we tried to address"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2733.65,"endTime":2737.1000000000004,"body":"it. The other issue that came up"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2733.65,"endTime":2737.1000000000004,"body":"was the issue of jobs. You know,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2737.1000000000004,"endTime":2740.19,"body":"with the coal fields drying up"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2737.1000000000004,"endTime":2740.19,"body":"the coal plants shutting down,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2740.4300000000003,"endTime":2743.67,"body":"this could be a source for jobs."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2740.4300000000003,"endTime":2743.67,"body":"When we pointed out to the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2743.67,"endTime":2747.2400000000002,"body":"legislators in response that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2743.67,"endTime":2747.2400000000002,"body":"first of all, because these are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2747.2400000000002,"endTime":2750.96,"body":"imaginary reactors, you're not"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2747.2400000000002,"endTime":2750.96,"body":"going to see any jobs till 2035."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2752.61,"endTime":2756.2700000000004,"body":"They just shrugged and moved on"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2752.61,"endTime":2756.2700000000004,"body":"is nothing. One of the great"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2756.2700000000004,"endTime":2759.8100000000004,"body":"ironies is the day the Senate"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2756.2700000000004,"endTime":2759.8100000000004,"body":"passed the bill to go over to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2759.8100000000004,"endTime":2766.7700000000004,"body":"the house. A solar farm started"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2759.8100000000004,"endTime":2766.7700000000004,"body":"construction in Sangamon County,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2767.3700000000003,"endTime":2772.26,"body":"which would be 800 megawatts in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2767.3700000000003,"endTime":2772.26,"body":"capacity. It will be ready next"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2772.26,"endTime":2778.0800000000004,"body":"fall to be going online. We"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2772.26,"endTime":2778.0800000000004,"body":"create 450 construction jobs,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2778.2300000000005,"endTime":2782.46,"body":"all union working with the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2778.2300000000005,"endTime":2782.46,"body":"unions down there to continue"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2782.46,"endTime":2785.7900000000004,"body":"jobs beyond construction for the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2782.46,"endTime":2785.7900000000004,"body":"operation of the plant. And we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2785.7900000000004,"endTime":2790.0800000000004,"body":"said look, by the time you get"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2785.7900000000004,"endTime":2790.0800000000004,"body":"the first demonstrator of small"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2790.0800000000004,"endTime":2793.2900000000004,"body":"modulars built, you could build"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2790.0800000000004,"endTime":2793.2900000000004,"body":"five more of these farms."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2793.4100000000003,"endTime":2796.6800000000003,"body":"Wouldn't 4000 megawatts of power"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2793.4100000000003,"endTime":2796.6800000000003,"body":"make a difference in my soul?"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2797.46,"endTime":2800.61,"body":"Wouldn't all those jobs make a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2797.46,"endTime":2800.61,"body":"difference in the communities"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2800.61,"endTime":2805.2900000000004,"body":"that will have coal plants shut"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2800.61,"endTime":2805.2900000000004,"body":"down? crickets, he didn't touch"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2805.2900000000004,"endTime":2805.53,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2805.71,"endTime":2808.4700000000003,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2805.71,"endTime":2808.4700000000003,"body":"amazing. It's amazing how the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2808.4700000000003,"endTime":2814.05,"body":"math really just does not add up"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2808.4700000000003,"endTime":2814.05,"body":"around SM N RS, the speed at"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2814.05,"endTime":2818.61,"body":"which you can develop a nuclear"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2814.05,"endTime":2818.61,"body":"facility is on the order of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2818.61,"endTime":2823.92,"body":"decades. You know, large scale"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2818.61,"endTime":2823.92,"body":"solar does take some time that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2823.92,"endTime":2826.6200000000003,"body":"double black diamond is the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2823.92,"endTime":2826.6200000000003,"body":"project you're referring to by"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2826.6200000000003,"endTime":2832.0800000000004,"body":"swiftcurrent energy, which is a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2826.6200000000003,"endTime":2832.0800000000004,"body":"virtual PPA or a asleep through"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2832.17,"endTime":2836.67,"body":"PPA, feeding the city of Chicago"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2832.17,"endTime":2836.67,"body":"facility. So it is a very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2836.67,"endTime":2839.1600000000003,"body":"important project for Illinois."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2836.67,"endTime":2839.1600000000003,"body":"It's a very unique project"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2839.1600000000003,"endTime":2841.5000000000005,"body":"because it crosses some"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2839.1600000000003,"endTime":2841.5000000000005,"body":"boundaries, right, the projects"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2841.5000000000005,"endTime":2847.38,"body":"in miso, the off taker, the city"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2841.5000000000005,"endTime":2847.38,"body":"is in PJM. And that is a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2847.38,"endTime":2852.03,"body":"constellation project, you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2847.38,"endTime":2852.03,"body":"mentioned constellation being in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2852.03,"endTime":2855.9900000000002,"body":"the nuclear industry as well,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2852.03,"endTime":2855.9900000000002,"body":"which is which is true of many,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2856.17,"endTime":2861.5400000000004,"body":"you know, parts of the of the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2856.17,"endTime":2861.5400000000004,"body":"renewables industry, right. Many"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2861.5400000000004,"endTime":2865.38,"body":"of these companies have their"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2861.5400000000004,"endTime":2865.38,"body":"feet in both worlds in nuclear"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2865.38,"endTime":2870.7500000000005,"body":"in coal in oil, and natural gas"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2865.38,"endTime":2870.7500000000005,"body":"as as well as wind and solar."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2871.05,"endTime":2877.2300000000005,"body":"But anyway, you could build four"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2871.05,"endTime":2877.2300000000005,"body":"of these double black diamonds"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2877.26,"endTime":2880.8900000000003,"body":"in the same period that you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2877.26,"endTime":2880.8900000000003,"body":"could build a single seminar."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2881.07,"endTime":2881.7900000000004,"body":"And we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2881.8500000000004,"endTime":2884.4900000000002,"body":"could point to the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2881.8500000000004,"endTime":2884.4900000000002,"body":"legislators and it just did not"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2884.4900000000002,"endTime":2887.9100000000003,"body":"register at all they had their"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2884.4900000000002,"endTime":2887.9100000000003,"body":"minds made up. Yeah, fact heard"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2887.9100000000003,"endTime":2891.4500000000003,"body":"the word in the hallway after"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2887.9100000000003,"endTime":2891.4500000000003,"body":"this hearing was over. The word"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2891.4500000000003,"endTime":2896.34,"body":"grease was used to explain the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2891.4500000000003,"endTime":2896.34,"body":"17 did nothing vote to move the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":2896.34,"endTime":2897.1200000000003,"body":"bill forward?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2897.3300000000004,"endTime":2899.61,"body":"Yeah. I mean, here"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2897.3300000000004,"endTime":2899.61,"body":"we are. We're trying to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2899.61,"endTime":2903.2400000000002,"body":"decarbonize the economy, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2899.61,"endTime":2903.2400000000002,"body":"Biden ministration, has set"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2903.2400000000002,"endTime":2907.59,"body":"goals of decarbonizing the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2903.2400000000002,"endTime":2907.59,"body":"economy basically, by 2050. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2908.5200000000004,"endTime":2913.26,"body":"that's the best case scenario."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2908.5200000000004,"endTime":2913.26,"body":"And so that's 27 years away now."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2913.7400000000002,"endTime":2917.7900000000004,"body":"And, you know, it's just the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2913.7400000000002,"endTime":2917.7900000000004,"body":"writing is on the wall, but you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2917.7900000000004,"endTime":2921.0600000000004,"body":"can't you can't solve this"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2917.7900000000004,"endTime":2921.0600000000004,"body":"problem with new nuclear power,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2921.0600000000004,"endTime":2925.7700000000004,"body":"it's not economical. It's not"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2921.0600000000004,"endTime":2925.7700000000004,"body":"timely enough. And then there's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2925.7700000000004,"endTime":2930.6000000000004,"body":"all these other problems, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2925.7700000000004,"endTime":2930.6000000000004,"body":"waste, and the proliferation"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2930.6000000000004,"endTime":2934.53,"body":"issues that come along with it."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2930.6000000000004,"endTime":2934.53,"body":"So the what my take away though,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2934.53,"endTime":2942.3900000000003,"body":"Dave, here today is that SM N"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2934.53,"endTime":2942.3900000000003,"body":"RS. There are some new aspects"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2942.42,"endTime":2946.5600000000004,"body":"to them, there are some new"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2942.42,"endTime":2946.5600000000004,"body":"technologies, but the problems"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2946.5600000000004,"endTime":2950.1600000000003,"body":"remain the same, right? The cost"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2946.5600000000004,"endTime":2950.1600000000003,"body":"of this technology is is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2950.1600000000003,"endTime":2954.9900000000002,"body":"relatively very high. The pace"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2950.1600000000003,"endTime":2954.9900000000002,"body":"of development is very slow,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2955.59,"endTime":2959.34,"body":"compared to competing"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2955.59,"endTime":2959.34,"body":"technologies, and the the long"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2959.34,"endTime":2963.9,"body":"term problems of nuclear do not"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2959.34,"endTime":2963.9,"body":"go away with SM NRS, you still"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2963.9,"endTime":2968.61,"body":"have a major waste problem. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2963.9,"endTime":2968.61,"body":"most Illinois are completely and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2968.61,"endTime":2972.4800000000005,"body":"other states that house nuclear"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2968.61,"endTime":2972.4800000000005,"body":"power plants are completely"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2972.4800000000005,"endTime":2976.11,"body":"ignorant of this reality,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2972.4800000000005,"endTime":2976.11,"body":"because it's not in the news on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2976.11,"endTime":2979.5600000000004,"body":"a regular basis that what's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2976.11,"endTime":2979.5600000000004,"body":"happening is the waste is piling"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2979.5600000000004,"endTime":2986.07,"body":"up on site. Because there are no"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2979.5600000000004,"endTime":2986.07,"body":"acceptable long term facilities."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2986.07,"endTime":2989.7900000000004,"body":"There's been attempts to develop"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2986.07,"endTime":2989.7900000000004,"body":"long, long term facilities in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2989.7900000000004,"endTime":2994.05,"body":"New Mexico and Nevada. But"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2989.7900000000004,"endTime":2994.05,"body":"they're not active. They're not"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2994.0800000000004,"endTime":2996.78,"body":"open, they're not receiving"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2994.0800000000004,"endTime":2996.78,"body":"waste. And so the waste is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2996.78,"endTime":3000.2300000000005,"body":"piling up in our backyards."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3000.32,"endTime":3002.63,"body":"And I would err,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3000.32,"endTime":3002.63,"body":"that's one more environmental"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3002.63,"endTime":3006.11,"body":"justice injustice, is the fact"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3002.63,"endTime":3006.11,"body":"that wherever the government"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3006.11,"endTime":3009.4700000000003,"body":"wanted to try and put a waste"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3006.11,"endTime":3009.4700000000003,"body":"facility, usually it was on some"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3009.4700000000003,"endTime":3012.71,"body":"poor Indian tribes land, who"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3009.4700000000003,"endTime":3012.71,"body":"needed the money. That's what"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3012.71,"endTime":3015.8,"body":"happened in Nevada, happened in"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3012.71,"endTime":3015.8,"body":"Utah. And now they're trying to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3015.8,"endTime":3019.67,"body":"force it down the throats of the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3015.8,"endTime":3019.67,"body":"Mexicans and the West Texans."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3020.42,"endTime":3024.2900000000004,"body":"Both states governors have"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3020.42,"endTime":3024.2900000000004,"body":"opposed it. Both State Senator"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3024.71,"endTime":3030.11,"body":"James have opposed it. And many"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3024.71,"endTime":3030.11,"body":"of the environmental justice"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3030.11,"endTime":3033.4100000000003,"body":"activists in both states are"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3030.11,"endTime":3033.4100000000003,"body":"opposing it. Yet the Biden"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3033.4100000000003,"endTime":3036.4700000000003,"body":"administration is going around"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3033.4100000000003,"endTime":3036.4700000000003,"body":"the country talking about, oh,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3036.4700000000003,"endTime":3040.55,"body":"we're going to look for consent"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3036.4700000000003,"endTime":3040.55,"body":"based siting for these nuclear"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3040.55,"endTime":3043.6400000000003,"body":"waste facilities. I'm sorry,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3040.55,"endTime":3043.6400000000003,"body":"where's the consent? They"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3043.6400000000003,"endTime":3047.7500000000005,"body":"already gave you their their"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3043.6400000000003,"endTime":3047.7500000000005,"body":"answer go away. Yeah, there's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3047.7500000000005,"endTime":3051.2000000000003,"body":"one last topic we did not touch"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3047.7500000000005,"endTime":3051.2000000000003,"body":"on, Tim, and I think it's"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3051.2000000000003,"endTime":3055.88,"body":"important. The other point we"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3051.2000000000003,"endTime":3055.88,"body":"made to the legislators is that"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3055.88,"endTime":3059.84,"body":"if you go down the route of"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3055.88,"endTime":3059.84,"body":"small modulars, you will be"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3059.84,"endTime":3063.92,"body":"delaying if not outright"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3059.84,"endTime":3063.92,"body":"sabotaging the renewables goals"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3063.92,"endTime":3069.4700000000003,"body":"that you enacted and Seija and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3063.92,"endTime":3069.4700000000003,"body":"2021 and fija in 2016. These"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3069.4700000000003,"endTime":3073.9700000000003,"body":"were the bills that really did a"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3069.4700000000003,"endTime":3073.9700000000003,"body":"lot so advance more renewables,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3073.9700000000003,"endTime":3079.7300000000005,"body":"more efficiency, more equity and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3073.9700000000003,"endTime":3079.7300000000005,"body":"energy. But the fact remains is"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3079.94,"endTime":3084.26,"body":"the energy pie is finite, both"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3079.94,"endTime":3084.26,"body":"in terms of access to the grid,"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3084.4700000000003,"endTime":3087.6800000000003,"body":"and in terms of dollars"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3084.4700000000003,"endTime":3087.6800000000003,"body":"available to spend. If you're"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3087.6800000000003,"endTime":3091.4,"body":"going to spend money on small"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3087.6800000000003,"endTime":3091.4,"body":"modulars you are going to cut"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3091.4,"endTime":3095.15,"body":"into the money you have"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3091.4,"endTime":3095.15,"body":"available to implement Seija and"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3095.36,"endTime":3098.15,"body":"you will then make them"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3095.36,"endTime":3098.15,"body":"competitors to get on an already"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3098.15,"endTime":3102.4100000000003,"body":"constrained transmission grid."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3098.15,"endTime":3102.4100000000003,"body":"As many of your listeners know"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3102.8300000000004,"endTime":3106.9700000000003,"body":"It's hard now to get renewables"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3102.8300000000004,"endTime":3106.9700000000003,"body":"projects hooked into the grid."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3106.9700000000003,"endTime":3110.03,"body":"And that's one of the big"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3106.9700000000003,"endTime":3110.03,"body":"problems we're having. You pour"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3110.03,"endTime":3113.3300000000004,"body":"more small modulars into the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3110.03,"endTime":3113.3300000000004,"body":"mix, that competition is gonna"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3113.3300000000004,"endTime":3116.9900000000002,"body":"get more fierce and your whole"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3113.3300000000004,"endTime":3116.9900000000002,"body":"fight procedure is going to go"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3116.9900000000002,"endTime":3117.71,"body":"down the toilet."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3118.369,"endTime":3120.409,"body":"The Clean Power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3118.369,"endTime":3120.409,"body":"Hour is brought to you by Dena"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3120.409,"endTime":3123.829,"body":"watts. If you're a solar PV"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3120.409,"endTime":3123.829,"body":"asset manager or performance"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3123.829,"endTime":3126.8590000000004,"body":"engineer, you need better data"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3123.829,"endTime":3126.8590000000004,"body":"and better business"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3126.8590000000004,"endTime":3130.2790000000005,"body":"intelligence. With Dina Watts"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3126.8590000000004,"endTime":3130.2790000000005,"body":"digital twin benchmarking"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3130.2790000000005,"endTime":3134.1490000000003,"body":"technology you get more"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3130.2790000000005,"endTime":3134.1490000000003,"body":"accurate, efficient, and faster"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3134.1490000000003,"endTime":3137.659,"body":"performance measurement results."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3134.1490000000003,"endTime":3137.659,"body":"The fourth generation Dino"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3137.659,"endTime":3141.6490000000003,"body":"recently completed a technical"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3137.659,"endTime":3141.6490000000003,"body":"review by DNV you can download"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3141.6490000000003,"endTime":3149.059,"body":"the report Adina watts.com,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3141.6490000000003,"endTime":3149.059,"body":"that's D No w@ts.com. Now back"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3149.059,"endTime":3152.6290000000004,"body":"to the show. Point well taken."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3149.059,"endTime":3152.6290000000004,"body":"Well please check out all of our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3152.6290000000004,"endTime":3157.099,"body":"content at clean power hour.com"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3152.6290000000004,"endTime":3157.099,"body":"Give us a rating and a review on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3157.099,"endTime":3160.849,"body":"Apple and Spotify. That is the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3157.099,"endTime":3160.849,"body":"best way you can help the show"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3161.119,"endTime":3164.9590000000003,"body":"and spread the word about the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3161.119,"endTime":3164.9590000000003,"body":"energy transition. And please"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3164.9590000000003,"endTime":3168.409,"body":"subscribe to our YouTube"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3164.9590000000003,"endTime":3168.409,"body":"channel. Reach out to me, I love"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3168.409,"endTime":3172.219,"body":"connecting with my listeners on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3168.409,"endTime":3172.219,"body":"LinkedIn. You can also connect"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3172.219,"endTime":3175.2490000000003,"body":"with me at clean power."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3172.219,"endTime":3175.2490000000003,"body":"hour.com. Dave, how can our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3175.2490000000003,"endTime":3177.0490000000004,"body":"listeners reach out to you?"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3177.5890000000004,"endTime":3182.8990000000003,"body":"We're online at"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3177.5890000000004,"endTime":3182.8990000000003,"body":"very simple WWW dot and e i s NC"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3182.8990000000003,"endTime":3186.9190000000003,"body":"Edward Island sam.org. Our"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3182.8990000000003,"endTime":3186.9190000000003,"body":"website has a lot of the"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3186.9190000000003,"endTime":3191.1490000000003,"body":"documents that are pertinent to"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3186.9190000000003,"endTime":3191.1490000000003,"body":"today's discussion in our"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3191.179,"endTime":3194.539,"body":"resources section. And folks can"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3191.179,"endTime":3194.539,"body":"just send us an email if they"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3194.539,"endTime":3199.4590000000003,"body":"have questions. And EIS at an E"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3194.539,"endTime":3199.4590000000003,"body":"i s.org."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3200.449,"endTime":3204.139,"body":"Thank you very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3200.449,"endTime":3204.139,"body":"much. I want to thank Dave craft"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3204.139,"endTime":3207.349,"body":"the director of NCIS for being"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3204.139,"endTime":3207.349,"body":"on the show today. Wonderful"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3207.349,"endTime":3210.7990000000004,"body":"discussion. I'm Tim Montague."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3207.349,"endTime":3210.7990000000004,"body":"Let's grow solar and storage."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3210.829,"endTime":3211.6090000000004,"body":"Take care Dave."},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3212.0000000000005,"endTime":3212.9900000000002,"body":"Thank you stay"},{"speaker":"David Kraft","startTime":3212.0000000000005,"endTime":3212.9900000000002,"body":"well."}]}