{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":50.78,"endTime":53.93,"body":"India's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":50.78,"endTime":53.93,"body":"failure to build wind and solar"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":53.93,"endTime":57.35,"body":"fast enough, and the US has"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":53.93,"endTime":57.35,"body":"failure to do anything about"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":57.35,"endTime":61.58,"body":"existing transportation"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":57.35,"endTime":61.58,"body":"emissions. I identify those two"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":61.58,"endTime":68.12,"body":"things now, as the problem"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":61.58,"endTime":68.12,"body":"children the problem twins have"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":68.24000000000001,"endTime":72.17,"body":"of getting emissions to go down,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":68.24000000000001,"endTime":72.17,"body":"solve those two things. We'll"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":72.17,"endTime":75.14,"body":"get emissions going down sooner."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":72.17,"endTime":75.14,"body":"don't solve them. We're gonna"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":75.14,"endTime":77.51,"body":"have to wait for emissions to go"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":75.14,"endTime":77.51,"body":"down later."},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":77.84,"endTime":80.72,"body":"Are you speeding the"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":77.84,"endTime":80.72,"body":"energy transition? Here at the"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":80.72,"endTime":84.41,"body":"Clean Power Hour, our hosts Tim"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":80.72,"endTime":84.41,"body":"Montague and John Weaver bring"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":84.41,"endTime":88.1,"body":"you the best in solar batteries"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":84.41,"endTime":88.1,"body":"and clean technologies every"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":88.1,"endTime":92.09,"body":"week want to go deeper into"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":88.1,"endTime":92.09,"body":"decarbonisation? We do too."},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":92.33,"endTime":94.73,"body":"We're here to help you"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":92.33,"endTime":94.73,"body":"understand and command the"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":94.73,"endTime":98.45,"body":"commercial, residential and"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":94.73,"endTime":98.45,"body":"utility, solar, wind and storage"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":98.45,"endTime":102.62,"body":"industries. So let's get to it."},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":98.45,"endTime":102.62,"body":"Together we can speed the energy"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":102.62,"endTime":103.31,"body":"transition."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":106.07,"endTime":108.77000000000001,"body":"It's a special"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":106.07,"endTime":108.77000000000001,"body":"treat to have such a story"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":108.77000000000001,"endTime":113.45,"body":"journalist and author on the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":108.77000000000001,"endTime":113.45,"body":"show. I think you my listeners"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":113.45,"endTime":116.84,"body":"are really going to enjoy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":113.45,"endTime":116.84,"body":"today's episode, my guest today"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":116.84,"endTime":121.43,"body":"is Gregor MacDonald. He is the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":116.84,"endTime":121.43,"body":"author of oil fall, how wind and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":121.43,"endTime":125.96000000000001,"body":"solar will gel break the power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":121.43,"endTime":125.96000000000001,"body":"grid. And he is best known for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":125.96000000000001,"endTime":128.6,"body":"his newsletter, The Gregor"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":125.96000000000001,"endTime":128.6,"body":"letter, welcome to the show,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":128.6,"endTime":129.53,"body":"Gregor MacDonald."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":130.13,"endTime":132.05,"body":"It's so great"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":130.13,"endTime":132.05,"body":"to be here. And I really look"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":132.05,"endTime":137.63,"body":"forward to our chat. And also,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":132.05,"endTime":137.63,"body":"you know, any help I can give to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":137.63,"endTime":138.47,"body":"your audience,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":138.76999999999998,"endTime":142.16,"body":"it's not often"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":138.76999999999998,"endTime":142.16,"body":"that I have guests who are so"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":142.16,"endTime":145.79000000000002,"body":"committed to the energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":142.16,"endTime":145.79000000000002,"body":"transition as I am, most of my"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":145.79000000000002,"endTime":149.69,"body":"guests are niched, down, you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":145.79000000000002,"endTime":149.69,"body":"know, CEOs of technology"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":149.69,"endTime":153.76999999999998,"body":"companies. And of course, we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":149.69,"endTime":153.76999999999998,"body":"cover many technologies, wind,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":154.25,"endTime":158.99,"body":"energy, storage, solar, lots of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":154.25,"endTime":158.99,"body":"solar, but But you are somebody"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":158.99,"endTime":162.89,"body":"who has a very big picture of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":158.99,"endTime":162.89,"body":"the energy transition,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":162.89,"endTime":166.13,"body":"especially as it relates to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":162.89,"endTime":166.13,"body":"transportation. So give our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":166.13,"endTime":169.13,"body":"listeners a little background on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":166.13,"endTime":169.13,"body":"yourself. Gregor, in the in the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":169.13,"endTime":173.12,"body":"pre show, I mistakenly said that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":169.13,"endTime":173.12,"body":"you were from Europe, or I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":173.12,"endTime":176.39,"body":"thought you were from Europe,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":173.12,"endTime":176.39,"body":"but you're American. What's your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":176.39,"endTime":179.36,"body":"story? And how did you come to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":176.39,"endTime":179.36,"body":"be so interested in the energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":179.36,"endTime":180.08,"body":"transition?"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":180.5,"endTime":184.43,"body":"Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":180.5,"endTime":184.43,"body":"you're right. My angle on the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":184.43,"endTime":191.54,"body":"energy transition is a big"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":184.43,"endTime":191.54,"body":"picture, global macro view. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":191.54,"endTime":196.73,"body":"it's also informed by some, you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":191.54,"endTime":196.73,"body":"know, historical knowledge of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":196.73,"endTime":201.32,"body":"the previous two energy"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":196.73,"endTime":201.32,"body":"transitions. And I'm, I go"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":201.32,"endTime":204.83,"body":"micro, at times, you know, I'll"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":201.32,"endTime":204.83,"body":"talk about California gasoline."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":205.34,"endTime":210.23,"body":"But I really try to anchor"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":205.34,"endTime":210.23,"body":"myself towards that global view."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":210.62,"endTime":214.43,"body":"Because, of course, emissions"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":210.62,"endTime":214.43,"body":"are global. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":214.43,"endTime":218.75,"body":"that's ultimately the thing"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":214.43,"endTime":218.75,"body":"we're trying to change. Just on"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":218.75,"endTime":222.92,"body":"background, you thought I might"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":218.75,"endTime":222.92,"body":"have been European. Because"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":223.28,"endTime":229.97,"body":"there are touches of UK and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":223.28,"endTime":229.97,"body":"British friendly aspects to my"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":229.97,"endTime":233.99,"body":"newsletter, I use the word"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":229.97,"endTime":233.99,"body":"petrol. I publish on Monday"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":233.99,"endTime":238.49,"body":"mornings, every other Monday"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":233.99,"endTime":238.49,"body":"morning for the ATM time in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":238.49,"endTime":243.83,"body":"London. And that's a habit that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":238.49,"endTime":243.83,"body":"I formed over the years in part,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":244.34,"endTime":249.26,"body":"because London, historically,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":244.34,"endTime":249.26,"body":"from my view, has been a kind of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":249.26,"endTime":255.08,"body":"center of energy and commodity"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":249.26,"endTime":255.08,"body":"investing. And my journey began"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":255.83,"endTime":262.7,"body":"trading oil and an oil related"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":255.83,"endTime":262.7,"body":"equities, and being very focused"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":262.7,"endTime":269.39,"body":"on oil, and natural gas, and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":262.7,"endTime":269.39,"body":"coal. And of course, that's not"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":269.39,"endTime":275.15,"body":"where the hot action is. Now,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":269.39,"endTime":275.15,"body":"all the action is in renewables."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":275.51,"endTime":281.27,"body":"But I feel fortunate. And I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":275.51,"endTime":281.27,"body":"think it's helpful that I have"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":281.27,"endTime":286.64,"body":"that fossil fuel knowledge. And,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":281.27,"endTime":286.64,"body":"and it helps, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":286.64,"endTime":290.87,"body":"understanding, and hopefully my"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":286.64,"endTime":290.87,"body":"readers understanding of energy"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":290.87,"endTime":294.83000000000004,"body":"transition, which sounds obvious"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":290.87,"endTime":294.83000000000004,"body":"to say, but yes, we're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":294.83000000000004,"endTime":299.18,"body":"transitioning from fossil fuels,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":294.83000000000004,"endTime":299.18,"body":"to manufactured energy to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":299.18,"endTime":304.58000000000004,"body":"technological energy to, to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":299.18,"endTime":304.58000000000004,"body":"infrastructure oriented energy,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":305.0,"endTime":309.95000000000005,"body":"and I'm just a big fan of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":305.0,"endTime":309.95000000000005,"body":"economic history. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":309.95000000000005,"endTime":314.41999999999996,"body":"the previous two historical"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":309.95000000000005,"endTime":314.41999999999996,"body":"transitions are very, very"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":314.45000000000005,"endTime":316.42999999999995,"body":"useful and helpful to my work."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":317.17999999999995,"endTime":321.83000000000004,"body":"I'm curious if"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":317.17999999999995,"endTime":321.83000000000004,"body":"you're a fan or a critic Vaclav"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":321.83000000000004,"endTime":322.76,"body":"Smil. 's work"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":323.69000000000005,"endTime":330.89,"body":"both I am a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":323.69000000000005,"endTime":330.89,"body":"longtime admirer of his scope,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":331.19000000000005,"endTime":337.52,"body":"and his productivity. He he"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":331.19000000000005,"endTime":337.52,"body":"produces a lot of very valuable"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":337.54999999999995,"endTime":342.5,"body":"historical perspectives he has"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":337.54999999999995,"endTime":342.5,"body":"brings a lot of interesting"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":342.5,"endTime":347.51,"body":"data, and I really admire the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":342.5,"endTime":347.51,"body":"way he's anchored by history."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":347.96000000000004,"endTime":354.32000000000005,"body":"His weakness tends to come them"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":347.96000000000004,"endTime":354.32000000000005,"body":"when he makes forecasts, I think"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":354.32000000000005,"endTime":360.08000000000004,"body":"is his ability to forecast is"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":354.32000000000005,"endTime":360.08000000000004,"body":"not as not as strong as his"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":360.08000000000004,"endTime":364.66999999999996,"body":"ability to understand history."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":360.08000000000004,"endTime":364.66999999999996,"body":"And he's gotten himself, in my"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":364.66999999999996,"endTime":368.84000000000003,"body":"view bogged down in the face of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":364.66999999999996,"endTime":368.84000000000003,"body":"the current energy transition,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":369.08000000000004,"endTime":374.75,"body":"because I don't I don't think he"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":369.08000000000004,"endTime":374.75,"body":"understands the speed of it, I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":374.78,"endTime":378.14,"body":"understand his criticisms that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":374.78,"endTime":378.14,"body":"we're not going fast enough. But"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":378.14,"endTime":381.74,"body":"remember, that's not a unique"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":378.14,"endTime":381.74,"body":"view. So if you all agree, we're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":381.74,"endTime":385.90999999999997,"body":"not going fast enough. So and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":381.74,"endTime":385.90999999999997,"body":"that's his view. But he gets too"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":385.90999999999997,"endTime":388.52,"body":"over involved in that so well,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":385.90999999999997,"endTime":388.52,"body":"one"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":388.52,"endTime":390.47,"body":"of the things I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":388.52,"endTime":390.47,"body":"appreciate about his work is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":390.47,"endTime":393.79999999999995,"body":"that he points out that energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":390.47,"endTime":393.79999999999995,"body":"transitions historically, do"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":393.79999999999995,"endTime":398.9,"body":"take decades, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":393.79999999999995,"endTime":398.9,"body":"sometimes over 100 years. And I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":398.9,"endTime":401.87,"body":"think the the cool thing that we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":398.9,"endTime":401.87,"body":"forget sometimes is that we're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":401.87,"endTime":404.99,"body":"70 years into, for example, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":401.87,"endTime":404.99,"body":"PV revolution, right?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":404.99,"endTime":408.89,"body":"Photovoltaics have been around"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":404.99,"endTime":408.89,"body":"since the 1950s, invented in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":408.89,"endTime":414.32000000000005,"body":"1954, in New Jersey, at Bell"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":408.89,"endTime":414.32000000000005,"body":"Labs. And, and so even if the,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":414.95000000000005,"endTime":418.07000000000005,"body":"the renewable energy transition,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":414.95000000000005,"endTime":418.07000000000005,"body":"so to speak takes 100 years,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":418.07000000000005,"endTime":421.97,"body":"while we've, we're 70 years into"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":418.07000000000005,"endTime":421.97,"body":"that transition, as I see it."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":422.48,"endTime":426.08000000000004,"body":"And now of course, we're going"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":422.48,"endTime":426.08000000000004,"body":"vertical, we're at the bottom of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":426.08000000000004,"endTime":429.59000000000003,"body":"the S curve. And wind and solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":426.08000000000004,"endTime":429.59000000000003,"body":"are the fastest growing new"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":429.59000000000003,"endTime":434.27,"body":"sources of of great energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":429.59000000000003,"endTime":434.27,"body":"globally. And that is largely"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":434.27,"endTime":437.87,"body":"because of the technology"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":434.27,"endTime":437.87,"body":"adoption curve. It's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":437.87,"endTime":441.89,"body":"combination, though, right? It"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":437.87,"endTime":441.89,"body":"is also a function of policies,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":442.03999999999996,"endTime":446.24,"body":"because some societies are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":442.03999999999996,"endTime":446.24,"body":"waking up to the reality of we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":446.24,"endTime":449.78,"body":"need to incentivize the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":446.24,"endTime":449.78,"body":"transition, so that we can"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":449.84000000000003,"endTime":453.47,"body":"perhaps avoid the worst of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":449.84000000000003,"endTime":453.47,"body":"climate change. Now, will we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":453.47,"endTime":456.53,"body":"avoid the worst of climate"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":453.47,"endTime":456.53,"body":"change is to be to be"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":456.53,"endTime":459.40999999999997,"body":"determined, because climate"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":456.53,"endTime":459.40999999999997,"body":"change is obviously and you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":459.40999999999997,"endTime":463.52,"body":"rightfully point this out in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":459.40999999999997,"endTime":463.52,"body":"your newsletter, that it is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":463.73,"endTime":470.0,"body":"kicking our butt in many ways."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":463.73,"endTime":470.0,"body":"Is it a? Is it an existential"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":470.0,"endTime":474.28999999999996,"body":"threat? That's debatable, right?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":470.0,"endTime":474.28999999999996,"body":"Certainly not. Today, it's not"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":474.28999999999996,"endTime":477.23,"body":"an existential threat. Could it"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":474.28999999999996,"endTime":477.23,"body":"be in 50 years? Yeah, it could"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":477.23,"endTime":481.34000000000003,"body":"be for the good life that we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":477.23,"endTime":481.34000000000003,"body":"have. And I also love to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":481.34000000000003,"endTime":485.69000000000005,"body":"recognize that we got the good"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":481.34000000000003,"endTime":485.69000000000005,"body":"life from fossil fuels. I have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":485.69000000000005,"endTime":490.37,"body":"nothing against fossil fuels."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":485.69000000000005,"endTime":490.37,"body":"They're amazingly dense, rich"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":490.37,"endTime":495.44000000000005,"body":"resources. My own family was"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":490.37,"endTime":495.44000000000005,"body":"very involved in the fossil"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":495.44000000000005,"endTime":500.15,"body":"industry. My grandpa in Chicago,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":495.44000000000005,"endTime":500.15,"body":"ran a magazine called The Black"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":500.15,"endTime":503.9,"body":"Diamond, Illinois is a coal"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":500.15,"endTime":503.9,"body":"state, and the Black Diamond was"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":503.9,"endTime":509.84000000000003,"body":"a coal industry publication. But"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":503.9,"endTime":509.84000000000003,"body":"I grew up in New Mexico where,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":510.02,"endTime":513.5,"body":"you know, we had these massive"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":510.02,"endTime":513.5,"body":"four corners power plants, which"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":565.19,"endTime":568.76,"body":"caused major pollution,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":565.19,"endTime":568.76,"body":"including pumping mercury into"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":568.76,"endTime":572.8399999999999,"body":"the environment. My father wrote"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":568.76,"endTime":572.8399999999999,"body":"a book on Mercury, the social"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":573.3199999999999,"endTime":577.31,"body":"negative impacts of mercury"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":573.3199999999999,"endTime":577.31,"body":"poisoning. And so I grew up"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":577.31,"endTime":580.73,"body":"learning about these things. It"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":577.31,"endTime":580.73,"body":"wasn't until 2016 that I got"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":580.73,"endTime":586.04,"body":"into solar, real, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":580.73,"endTime":586.04,"body":"for real, working in the solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":586.04,"endTime":589.52,"body":"PV industry. So anyway, you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":586.04,"endTime":589.52,"body":"write a lot about tipping"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":589.52,"endTime":595.01,"body":"points. And while we're still at"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":589.52,"endTime":595.01,"body":"a relatively small percentage,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":595.01,"endTime":599.5999999999999,"body":"for example of Evie adoption in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":595.01,"endTime":599.5999999999999,"body":"the United States, right, you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":599.5999999999999,"endTime":603.77,"body":"think that these small numbers"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":599.5999999999999,"endTime":603.77,"body":"can be a bellwether for the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":603.77,"endTime":607.1300000000001,"body":"coming tipping point, talk a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":603.77,"endTime":607.1300000000001,"body":"little bit about that, and how"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":607.1300000000001,"endTime":611.27,"body":"you see the electrification of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":607.1300000000001,"endTime":611.27,"body":"transportation globally and in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":611.27,"endTime":612.1700000000001,"body":"the United States?"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":612.8889999999999,"endTime":616.0989999999999,"body":"Sure, I'll"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":612.8889999999999,"endTime":616.0989999999999,"body":"talk to that there. There's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":616.0989999999999,"endTime":619.8789999999999,"body":"other tipping points that I'm"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":616.0989999999999,"endTime":619.8789999999999,"body":"interested in as well. Much of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":619.8789999999999,"endTime":623.779,"body":"my work the past five years and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":619.8789999999999,"endTime":623.779,"body":"10 years has been very"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":623.779,"endTime":627.289,"body":"anticipatory about what could"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":623.779,"endTime":627.289,"body":"potentially happen with wind and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":627.289,"endTime":631.1589999999999,"body":"solar, what could potentially"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":627.289,"endTime":631.1589999999999,"body":"happen with electric vehicles. I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":631.1589999999999,"endTime":638.269,"body":"like to speculate in advance of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":631.1589999999999,"endTime":638.269,"body":"these things happening. In some"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":638.269,"endTime":642.469,"body":"sense, the first chapter of my"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":638.269,"endTime":642.469,"body":"work on renewables over the last"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":642.469,"endTime":647.299,"body":"10 years, in some sense is over"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":642.469,"endTime":647.299,"body":"now, because the S curve, as you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":647.299,"endTime":653.029,"body":"say, is is rising. And we might"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":647.299,"endTime":653.029,"body":"even use a Charles Dickens"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":653.509,"endTime":658.4590000000001,"body":"title. It's a we're in a tale of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":653.509,"endTime":658.4590000000001,"body":"two cities. So we, it's we must"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":658.4590000000001,"endTime":661.8789999999999,"body":"be sober and be legitimately"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":658.4590000000001,"endTime":661.8789999999999,"body":"concerned about how the effects"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":661.8789999999999,"endTime":665.0889999999999,"body":"of climate change are already"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":661.8789999999999,"endTime":665.0889999999999,"body":"landing. We should be really"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":665.0889999999999,"endTime":671.0889999999999,"body":"encouraged by how fast the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":665.0889999999999,"endTime":671.0889999999999,"body":"leading edge technologies are"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":671.0889999999999,"endTime":676.069,"body":"going. So your question was"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":671.0889999999999,"endTime":676.069,"body":"about transportation and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":676.0989999999999,"endTime":679.729,"body":"electric vehicles. Okay, I'll"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":676.0989999999999,"endTime":679.729,"body":"try to make this complicated"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":679.8489999999999,"endTime":684.8589999999999,"body":"subject as simple as possible."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":679.8489999999999,"endTime":684.8589999999999,"body":"In any domain, the transition to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":684.8589999999999,"endTime":690.979,"body":"electric vehicles is initially"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":684.8589999999999,"endTime":690.979,"body":"felt as a slow a very slight"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":691.009,"endTime":696.7090000000001,"body":"slowing of the rate of growth of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":691.009,"endTime":696.7090000000001,"body":"oil demand. So you're still"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":696.739,"endTime":700.759,"body":"going to have oil demand growing"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":696.739,"endTime":700.759,"body":"or holding on to a plateau,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":701.269,"endTime":706.1289999999999,"body":"you're not into a decline on."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":701.269,"endTime":706.1289999999999,"body":"Yeah. But what I've started to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":706.1289999999999,"endTime":712.579,"body":"notice is that once you get to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":706.1289999999999,"endTime":712.579,"body":"the 678, year out, where after"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":712.6089999999999,"endTime":716.299,"body":"internal combustion engine"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":712.6089999999999,"endTime":716.299,"body":"vehicle sales have peaked. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":716.299,"endTime":719.5989999999999,"body":"you've got about six to seven,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":716.299,"endTime":719.5989999999999,"body":"eight years of Evie adoption."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":719.9590000000001,"endTime":723.979,"body":"What I think we're starting to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":719.9590000000001,"endTime":723.979,"body":"notice now, and California is a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":723.979,"endTime":728.779,"body":"perfect example of this is that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":723.979,"endTime":728.779,"body":"after being on a, an oscillating"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":728.779,"endTime":734.9590000000001,"body":"20 year plateau, California,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":728.779,"endTime":734.9590000000001,"body":"gasoline demand has actually"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":734.9590000000001,"endTime":740.509,"body":"started to fall. And you're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":734.9590000000001,"endTime":740.509,"body":"seeing that, again, were seven"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":740.509,"endTime":744.739,"body":"or eight years past peak ice"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":740.509,"endTime":744.739,"body":"sales in California, we've got"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":744.739,"endTime":748.6990000000001,"body":"wonderful S curve of Evie"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":744.739,"endTime":748.6990000000001,"body":"adoption in California, we're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":748.729,"endTime":754.039,"body":"heading towards 25 30% of plugin"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":748.729,"endTime":754.039,"body":"sales this year in California."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":754.309,"endTime":757.9089999999999,"body":"And finally, after all that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":754.309,"endTime":757.9089999999999,"body":"time, you're starting to see the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":757.9089999999999,"endTime":763.219,"body":"beginnings of a gentle decline"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":757.9089999999999,"endTime":763.219,"body":"in gasoline, that will get more"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":763.279,"endTime":768.1389999999999,"body":"accelerated. But it will be it"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":763.279,"endTime":768.1389999999999,"body":"will be somewhat slow for a time"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":768.319,"endTime":771.8589999999999,"body":"on a global basis. We're not"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":768.319,"endTime":771.8589999999999,"body":"there yet. on a global basis,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":771.8589999999999,"endTime":777.469,"body":"we're we're we're not at the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":771.8589999999999,"endTime":777.469,"body":"point where global oil demand"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":777.469,"endTime":782.059,"body":"can actually enter decline,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":777.469,"endTime":782.059,"body":"because of what's happening in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":782.059,"endTime":786.319,"body":"transportation. But we are, in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":782.059,"endTime":786.319,"body":"my view at the point where"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":786.319,"endTime":790.219,"body":"global oil demand will stop"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":786.319,"endTime":790.219,"body":"growing. And let me just add a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":790.219,"endTime":793.549,"body":"definition to that. Because"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":790.219,"endTime":793.549,"body":"these discussions have peaks and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":793.549,"endTime":797.719,"body":"declines and so forth, I want to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":793.549,"endTime":797.719,"body":"I want to tie myself down to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":797.719,"endTime":806.8389999999999,"body":"that. It's my current view that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":797.719,"endTime":806.8389999999999,"body":"2019 began a oscillating plateau"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":806.8389999999999,"endTime":811.3389999999999,"body":"period of global oil demand. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":806.8389999999999,"endTime":811.3389999999999,"body":"by that I mean, demand will"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":811.3389999999999,"endTime":815.1189999999999,"body":"fluctuate between one and one"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":811.3389999999999,"endTime":815.1189999999999,"body":"and a half percent above the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":815.1189999999999,"endTime":818.509,"body":"2019 level. And we might that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":815.1189999999999,"endTime":818.509,"body":"might happen this year, for"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":818.509,"endTime":821.6890000000001,"body":"example, and it will decline one"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":818.509,"endTime":821.6890000000001,"body":"and a half percent below that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":821.6890000000001,"endTime":826.249,"body":"level. And it will do this for a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":821.6890000000001,"endTime":826.249,"body":"while until the global auto"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":826.249,"endTime":831.3789999999999,"body":"fleet gets seven, eight years"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":826.249,"endTime":831.3789999999999,"body":"past peak is until the global"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":831.3789999999999,"endTime":837.319,"body":"auto fleet you know, it's those"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":831.3789999999999,"endTime":837.319,"body":"higher Evie things. So when I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":837.319,"endTime":842.299,"body":"say Tale of Two Cities, it's so"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":837.319,"endTime":842.299,"body":"encouraging everything that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":842.299,"endTime":847.6389999999999,"body":"we're doing. We're not yet at"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":842.299,"endTime":847.6389999999999,"body":"the point of fossil fuel"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":847.759,"endTime":852.799,"body":"declines. Okay, we're reaching"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":847.759,"endTime":852.799,"body":"the point where they're no"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":852.799,"endTime":855.9189999999999,"body":"longer going to grow. But then"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":852.799,"endTime":855.9189999999999,"body":"there's going to be this gray"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":855.9189999999999,"endTime":859.9089999999999,"body":"area where they don't decline"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":855.9189999999999,"endTime":859.9089999999999,"body":"yet they will decline but not"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":859.9089999999999,"endTime":860.2090000000001,"body":"yet."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":860.81,"endTime":863.6299999999999,"body":"And when you go to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":860.81,"endTime":863.6299999999999,"body":"or when you look at Northern"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":863.6299999999999,"endTime":868.73,"body":"Europe, right, Evie sales are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":863.6299999999999,"endTime":868.73,"body":"much further along. More than"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":869.03,"endTime":874.5799999999999,"body":"more than 50% of new car sales"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":869.03,"endTime":874.5799999999999,"body":"and upwards of 80 90%. In some"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":874.5799999999999,"endTime":879.77,"body":"countries like Norway. I think"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":874.5799999999999,"endTime":879.77,"body":"plugins accounted for 90 plus"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":879.77,"endTime":883.8199999999999,"body":"percent. Now Norway has strongly"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":879.77,"endTime":883.8199999999999,"body":"incentivized the adoption of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":883.8199999999999,"endTime":887.8399999999999,"body":"EVs. It's very ironic. My family"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":883.8199999999999,"endTime":887.8399999999999,"body":"is half Norwegian. And my kids"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":887.8399999999999,"endTime":891.1099999999999,"body":"are by cultural Norwegian"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":887.8399999999999,"endTime":891.1099999999999,"body":"American. And you know, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":891.1099999999999,"endTime":894.8,"body":"economy in Norway is dependent"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":891.1099999999999,"endTime":894.8,"body":"on oil, right North Sea oil and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":894.8,"endTime":899.8699999999999,"body":"gas make Norway wealthy and they"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":894.8,"endTime":899.8699999999999,"body":"have no plans to stop Burn Baby"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":899.8699999999999,"endTime":904.9100000000001,"body":"Burn. But they also are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":899.8699999999999,"endTime":904.9100000000001,"body":"environmentally sensitive. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":904.9100000000001,"endTime":908.6299999999999,"body":"their their grid is very clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":904.9100000000001,"endTime":908.6299999999999,"body":"already on hydro. They have lots"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":908.6299999999999,"endTime":913.0699999999999,"body":"of native hydropower. And so"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":908.6299999999999,"endTime":913.0699999999999,"body":"they are they do have a clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":913.0699999999999,"endTime":917.51,"body":"grid. And now they have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":913.0699999999999,"endTime":917.51,"body":"accelerated and leaned into"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":917.51,"endTime":921.6199999999999,"body":"electrification of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":917.51,"endTime":921.6199999999999,"body":"transportation. But and I like"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":921.6199999999999,"endTime":924.3799999999999,"body":"to say, you know, if you want to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":921.6199999999999,"endTime":924.3799999999999,"body":"see the future when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":924.3799999999999,"endTime":927.8899999999999,"body":"electrification and clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":924.3799999999999,"endTime":927.8899999999999,"body":"energy, go to Northern Europe."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":928.3399999999999,"endTime":930.8,"body":"What what do you see in Northern"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":928.3399999999999,"endTime":930.8,"body":"Europe?"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":930.95,"endTime":935.0899999999999,"body":"Yeah. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":930.95,"endTime":935.0899999999999,"body":"glad you asked that. So it's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":935.0899999999999,"endTime":939.71,"body":"really important for Americans"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":935.0899999999999,"endTime":939.71,"body":"to understand especially because"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":939.71,"endTime":942.3499999999999,"body":"I think it's obvious if you're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":939.71,"endTime":942.3499999999999,"body":"sitting outside the United"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":942.3499999999999,"endTime":951.1399999999999,"body":"States that as we sit here"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":942.3499999999999,"endTime":951.1399999999999,"body":"today, America, Europe uses two"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":951.1700000000001,"endTime":956.06,"body":"policies to reduce oil demand,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":951.1700000000001,"endTime":956.06,"body":"the adoption of electric"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":956.06,"endTime":960.4100000000001,"body":"vehicles alongside the build out"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":956.06,"endTime":960.4100000000001,"body":"of renewable electricity. So"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":960.4100000000001,"endTime":966.26,"body":"that's shifting demand for"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":960.4100000000001,"endTime":966.26,"body":"petrol over to electricity and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":966.26,"endTime":968.9300000000001,"body":"there I am using my petrol word"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":966.26,"endTime":968.9300000000001,"body":"because we're, we're in Europe"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":968.9300000000001,"endTime":977.1199999999999,"body":"now. But Europe has also been"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":968.9300000000001,"endTime":977.1199999999999,"body":"steadily reducing oil demand in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":977.1199999999999,"endTime":981.8599999999999,"body":"the EU for over a decade. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":977.1199999999999,"endTime":981.8599999999999,"body":"that's through efficiency"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":981.8599999999999,"endTime":987.3199999999999,"body":"policies and taxation policies,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":981.8599999999999,"endTime":987.3199999999999,"body":"congestion pricing, and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":987.3199999999999,"endTime":993.3199999999999,"body":"disincentives on ice vehicles."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":987.3199999999999,"endTime":993.3199999999999,"body":"America doesn't do that. America"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":993.3199999999999,"endTime":998.0,"body":"In fact, I gave a corporate"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":993.3199999999999,"endTime":998.0,"body":"presentation to a corporate"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":998.0,"endTime":1002.3799999999999,"body":"board several months ago, and I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":998.0,"endTime":1002.3799999999999,"body":"I explored a lot of these, you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1002.3799999999999,"endTime":1005.95,"body":"know, differences. And I, I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1002.3799999999999,"endTime":1005.95,"body":"worked up a case of how America"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1005.95,"endTime":1010.27,"body":"does energy transition. America"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1005.95,"endTime":1010.27,"body":"does energy transition with its"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1010.27,"endTime":1013.69,"body":"technology forward, its adoption"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1010.27,"endTime":1013.69,"body":"forward. It's we're going to do"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1013.69,"endTime":1019.8999999999999,"body":"all these new things. But we're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1013.69,"endTime":1019.8999999999999,"body":"not going to penalize current"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1020.02,"endTime":1023.1700000000001,"body":"automobile owners who drive ice"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1020.02,"endTime":1023.1700000000001,"body":"cars, we're not going to do"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1023.1700000000001,"endTime":1026.62,"body":"congestion charges, we're not"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1023.1700000000001,"endTime":1026.62,"body":"going to do disincentives around"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1026.62,"endTime":1029.83,"body":"oil, except on a state by state"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1026.62,"endTime":1029.83,"body":"basis, like California,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1030.22,"endTime":1034.81,"body":"California. And unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1030.22,"endTime":1034.81,"body":"Tim, what that means is that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1035.3799999999999,"endTime":1039.61,"body":"there's this very attractive"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1035.3799999999999,"endTime":1039.61,"body":"presentation that surrounds our"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1039.6399999999999,"endTime":1042.31,"body":"policy here in the United"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1039.6399999999999,"endTime":1042.31,"body":"States, it's very exciting."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1042.52,"endTime":1045.04,"body":"We're going to subsidize"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1042.52,"endTime":1045.04,"body":"electric vehicles and electric"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1045.04,"endTime":1048.76,"body":"vehicle sales are going up. But"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1045.04,"endTime":1048.76,"body":"because we're not doing anything"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1048.76,"endTime":1053.35,"body":"about existing the existing ice"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1048.76,"endTime":1053.35,"body":"fleet, it means we're waiting"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1053.35,"endTime":1057.28,"body":"for that fleet to turn over. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1053.35,"endTime":1057.28,"body":"in my view, that means the US"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1057.34,"endTime":1063.16,"body":"could have greater reductions in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1057.34,"endTime":1063.16,"body":"emissions this decade. Without"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1063.16,"endTime":1067.96,"body":"any change. We're pushing the,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1063.16,"endTime":1067.96,"body":"the harvesting of those"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1067.96,"endTime":1072.58,"body":"emissions decades of those"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1067.96,"endTime":1072.58,"body":"emissions into next decade. So"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1072.79,"endTime":1076.0,"body":"there's a real difference"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1072.79,"endTime":1076.0,"body":"between how Europe does it and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1076.0,"endTime":1077.65,"body":"how and how we do it."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1078.22,"endTime":1080.92,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1078.22,"endTime":1080.92,"body":"fascinating. You know, if you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1080.92,"endTime":1085.8400000000001,"body":"want to drive a car into a major"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1080.92,"endTime":1085.8400000000001,"body":"city in Europe, there is a toll"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1085.8400000000001,"endTime":1090.4,"body":"ring around that city and you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1085.8400000000001,"endTime":1090.4,"body":"pay upwards of $10 or more to,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1090.67,"endTime":1095.77,"body":"to take a vehicle into the city."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1090.67,"endTime":1095.77,"body":"And it is not, and it works,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1095.77,"endTime":1100.03,"body":"right. You think twice about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1095.77,"endTime":1100.03,"body":"driving a car. And they have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1100.03,"endTime":1103.24,"body":"good train systems so that you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1100.03,"endTime":1103.24,"body":"have options, trains and buses."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1103.42,"endTime":1109.5700000000002,"body":"It's a both and we have neither"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1103.42,"endTime":1109.5700000000002,"body":"many or the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1110.26,"endTime":1116.65,"body":"chimp are most"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1110.26,"endTime":1116.65,"body":"transit oriented, built out city"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1116.65,"endTime":1119.3500000000001,"body":"in America, the New York City"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1116.65,"endTime":1119.3500000000001,"body":"and the New York metropolitan"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1119.3500000000001,"endTime":1123.94,"body":"region. They're having political"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1119.3500000000001,"endTime":1123.94,"body":"problems putting in a congestion"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1123.94,"endTime":1127.3600000000001,"body":"charge, not in all of New New"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1123.94,"endTime":1127.3600000000001,"body":"York City, not in the other"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1127.3600000000001,"endTime":1130.9,"body":"boroughs, not even in the top"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1127.3600000000001,"endTime":1130.9,"body":"two thirds of Manhattan, just"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1130.9,"endTime":1135.43,"body":"the bottom third of of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1130.9,"endTime":1135.43,"body":"Manhattan. And that really"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1135.43,"endTime":1137.2,"body":"showed and remember this"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1135.43,"endTime":1137.2,"body":"Democrat, you know, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1137.2,"endTime":1140.38,"body":"Democrat, is democratically"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1137.2,"endTime":1140.38,"body":"controlled. And this is"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1140.38,"endTime":1142.84,"body":"something I've been talking"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1140.38,"endTime":1142.84,"body":"about recent issues. We've got a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1142.84,"endTime":1147.22,"body":"lot of democratically controlled"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1142.84,"endTime":1147.22,"body":"cities and municipalities."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1147.3700000000001,"endTime":1150.73,"body":"You've got Democrat governors,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1147.3700000000001,"endTime":1150.73,"body":"Democratic mayors, democratic"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1151.27,"endTime":1156.88,"body":"state senators, and we and even"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1151.27,"endTime":1156.88,"body":"then, we can't do a congestion"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1156.88,"endTime":1160.9,"body":"charge in New York City. You got"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1156.88,"endTime":1160.9,"body":"the Democratic mayor, Democratic"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1160.9,"endTime":1163.21,"body":"senators, Democratic"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1160.9,"endTime":1163.21,"body":"congressman, all from New"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1163.21,"endTime":1168.22,"body":"Jersey, complaining bitterly"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1163.21,"endTime":1168.22,"body":"about a congestion charge going"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1168.22,"endTime":1172.9,"body":"into Lower Manhattan. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1168.22,"endTime":1172.9,"body":"come on, you know. So that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1172.9,"endTime":1176.23,"body":"really is a measure of where we"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1172.9,"endTime":1176.23,"body":"are, culturally, just one more"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1176.23,"endTime":1179.2,"body":"thing on that. I live in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1176.23,"endTime":1179.2,"body":"Portland, Oregon, right? We're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1179.2,"endTime":1182.59,"body":"like, we're like the poster"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1179.2,"endTime":1182.59,"body":"child for, you know,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1182.59,"endTime":1186.79,"body":"progressivism. We were totally"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1182.59,"endTime":1186.79,"body":"bogged down here. We're a great"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1186.79,"endTime":1192.16,"body":"cycling city. We just can't do"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1186.79,"endTime":1192.16,"body":"anything about the cars. It's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1192.16,"endTime":1193.93,"body":"incredible. How did"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1193.93,"endTime":1197.44,"body":"you get interested"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1193.93,"endTime":1197.44,"body":"in the energy transition anyway,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1198.79,"endTime":1201.97,"body":"I was living"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1198.79,"endTime":1201.97,"body":"in London, and the price of oil"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1202.0,"endTime":1206.68,"body":"hit an all time low. And it"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1202.0,"endTime":1206.68,"body":"created a couple of those famous"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1207.64,"endTime":1212.6200000000001,"body":"covers of The Economist"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1207.64,"endTime":1212.6200000000001,"body":"magazine, which, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1212.6200000000001,"endTime":1214.93,"body":"you're in the field, it's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1212.6200000000001,"endTime":1214.93,"body":"somewhat, it's somewhat well"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1214.93,"endTime":1222.79,"body":"known. And I was teaching"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1214.93,"endTime":1222.79,"body":"creative writing, because that's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1222.8500000000001,"endTime":1226.42,"body":"part of my background. You know,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1222.8500000000001,"endTime":1226.42,"body":"journalists now that's true"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1226.45,"endTime":1230.74,"body":"teaching creative writing to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1226.45,"endTime":1230.74,"body":"kids in London. And I was"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1230.74,"endTime":1233.77,"body":"looking for other things to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1230.74,"endTime":1233.77,"body":"investigate. And I realized that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1233.77,"endTime":1235.96,"body":"I didn't know anything about"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1233.77,"endTime":1235.96,"body":"energy, didn't know anything"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1235.96,"endTime":1241.93,"body":"about oil. And I just decided to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1235.96,"endTime":1241.93,"body":"use that time to educate myself"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1242.17,"endTime":1245.08,"body":"for the simple reason that I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1242.17,"endTime":1245.08,"body":"thought, well, oil prices at"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1245.08,"endTime":1249.52,"body":"like, you know, $10 1112, or"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1245.08,"endTime":1249.52,"body":"whatever, it was a barrel that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1249.52,"endTime":1253.39,"body":"just seemed so cheap to me. So"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1249.52,"endTime":1253.39,"body":"that, that started me on my"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1253.39,"endTime":1261.31,"body":"journey of learning about fossil"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1253.39,"endTime":1261.31,"body":"fuels trading in in equity, and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1261.31,"endTime":1265.84,"body":"futures markets trading trading"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1261.31,"endTime":1265.84,"body":"oil. And I, you know, I got very"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1265.84,"endTime":1273.1000000000001,"body":"wrapped up in that oil bull"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1265.84,"endTime":1273.1000000000001,"body":"market from 2002 to 2008, where"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1273.1000000000001,"endTime":1279.76,"body":"of course, oil helped break, it"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1273.1000000000001,"endTime":1279.76,"body":"helped break the world into its"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1279.79,"endTime":1283.99,"body":"financial crisis. Obviously,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1279.79,"endTime":1283.99,"body":"that crisis had its had its main"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1285.04,"endTime":1288.7,"body":"antecedents, its sources in the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1285.04,"endTime":1288.7,"body":"financial system itself, and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1288.7,"endTime":1292.18,"body":"mortgages and leverage and so"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1288.7,"endTime":1292.18,"body":"forth. But I do think it's fair"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1292.18,"endTime":1298.18,"body":"to say that $150 oil in the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1292.18,"endTime":1298.18,"body":"summer of 2008 was was a pretty"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1298.18,"endTime":1302.44,"body":"good catalyst to break the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1298.18,"endTime":1302.44,"body":"consumer and and break things so"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1302.47,"endTime":1305.89,"body":"So that's how I got. That's how"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1302.47,"endTime":1305.89,"body":"I got started. And then I just"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1305.89,"endTime":1309.28,"body":"began, you know, writing about"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1305.89,"endTime":1309.28,"body":"energy markets because I had"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1309.28,"endTime":1311.59,"body":"friends who worked in financial"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1309.28,"endTime":1311.59,"body":"markets and they liked what I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1311.59,"endTime":1312.58,"body":"had to say. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1312.88,"endTime":1315.19,"body":"I think oh eight"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1312.88,"endTime":1315.19,"body":"was the year that Tesla really"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1315.19,"endTime":1319.93,"body":"got going. Sounds about right."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1315.19,"endTime":1319.93,"body":"And now they they control you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1319.93,"endTime":1324.22,"body":"know, upwards of what 85 90% Of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1319.93,"endTime":1324.22,"body":"the Evie market. It is amazing"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1324.22,"endTime":1328.06,"body":"how Elon has cornered that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1324.22,"endTime":1328.06,"body":"market in the United States."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1328.06,"endTime":1333.6100000000001,"body":"There's other players and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1328.06,"endTime":1333.6100000000001,"body":"substantial companies, but they"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1333.6100000000001,"endTime":1337.21,"body":"don't have really much market"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1333.6100000000001,"endTime":1337.21,"body":"share in the US."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1339.25,"endTime":1343.24,"body":"And they also"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1339.25,"endTime":1343.24,"body":"didn't get the Headstart that he"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1343.27,"endTime":1346.39,"body":"you know, that Elon got, you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1343.27,"endTime":1346.39,"body":"know, one thing I write about in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1346.39,"endTime":1352.84,"body":"my newsletter is that the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1346.39,"endTime":1352.84,"body":"existing legacy automakers I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1352.84,"endTime":1356.71,"body":"know that they must have known"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1352.84,"endTime":1356.71,"body":"this, but when they whenever it"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1356.71,"endTime":1359.47,"body":"was, they decided that they were"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1356.71,"endTime":1359.47,"body":"interested in making electric"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1359.47,"endTime":1364.1200000000001,"body":"vehicles, they needed to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1359.47,"endTime":1364.1200000000001,"body":"understand that in the history"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1364.1200000000001,"endTime":1367.72,"body":"of the internal combustion"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1364.1200000000001,"endTime":1367.72,"body":"engine vehicle, you simply"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1367.72,"endTime":1372.8500000000001,"body":"provided a a gas tank, a petrol"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1367.72,"endTime":1372.8500000000001,"body":"tank, on board the vehicle, and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1372.8500000000001,"endTime":1376.33,"body":"your responsibility to figure"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1372.8500000000001,"endTime":1376.33,"body":"out how to power the car that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1376.33,"endTime":1382.45,"body":"was over the Eevee drive train"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1376.33,"endTime":1382.45,"body":"completely shifts the burden of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1382.45,"endTime":1387.25,"body":"who's providing the power in the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1382.45,"endTime":1387.25,"body":"car, it shifts it from an empty,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1387.43,"endTime":1392.65,"body":"simple petrol tank to as you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1387.43,"endTime":1392.65,"body":"know, a sturdier chassis and a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1392.65,"endTime":1398.05,"body":"big battery pack. And I, you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1392.65,"endTime":1398.05,"body":"know, I think the existing"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1398.05,"endTime":1402.13,"body":"automakers didn't panic soon"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1398.05,"endTime":1402.13,"body":"enough. I would say that VW"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1402.34,"endTime":1405.31,"body":"panicked almost at the right"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1402.34,"endTime":1405.31,"body":"time. You know, a couple years"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1405.31,"endTime":1408.07,"body":"ago, they realized they needed"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1405.31,"endTime":1408.07,"body":"to lock up battery capacity."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1408.28,"endTime":1412.81,"body":"They needed to lock up lithium,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1408.28,"endTime":1412.81,"body":"I think they went to a battery"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1412.8700000000001,"endTime":1417.3700000000001,"body":"maker, is it North Gate, or it's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1412.8700000000001,"endTime":1417.3700000000001,"body":"North link, I may not have the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1417.3700000000001,"endTime":1421.42,"body":"right word. But they basically"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1417.3700000000001,"endTime":1421.42,"body":"VW went in and said, We'll buy"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1421.45,"endTime":1425.29,"body":"all your future production. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1421.45,"endTime":1425.29,"body":"we'll double your market"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1425.29,"endTime":1428.08,"body":"capitalization with a whole book"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1425.29,"endTime":1428.08,"body":"about, you know, boatload of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1428.08,"endTime":1431.3500000000001,"body":"money, so you can make even more"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1428.08,"endTime":1431.3500000000001,"body":"battery production. And we'll"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1431.3500000000001,"endTime":1435.3700000000001,"body":"take that too. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1431.3500000000001,"endTime":1435.3700000000001,"body":"that's been okay for VW. But it"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1435.3700000000001,"endTime":1438.64,"body":"would have been good if if VW"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1435.3700000000001,"endTime":1438.64,"body":"had done that, you know, even"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1438.64,"endTime":1442.84,"body":"five years before, by the way,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1438.64,"endTime":1442.84,"body":"that's northvolt. Yes. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1443.89,"endTime":1446.95,"body":"And very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1443.89,"endTime":1446.95,"body":"interestingly, now, here in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1446.95,"endTime":1453.34,"body":"2023, the Tesla Model y became"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1446.95,"endTime":1453.34,"body":"the number one car sale, number"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1453.34,"endTime":1459.34,"body":"one car in sales year to date,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1453.34,"endTime":1459.34,"body":"displacing the Toyota Corolla."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1459.34,"endTime":1464.05,"body":"So when you look globally, yes,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1459.34,"endTime":1464.05,"body":"car sales, Toyota has fallen"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1464.05,"endTime":1468.94,"body":"from number one, and Tesla is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1464.05,"endTime":1468.94,"body":"now King, I predicted this. When"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1468.94,"endTime":1471.79,"body":"I owned a Tesla Model y a few"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1468.94,"endTime":1471.79,"body":"years ago, I no longer do."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1471.79,"endTime":1475.78,"body":"Unfortunately, that's another"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1471.79,"endTime":1475.78,"body":"story for another day. But I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1475.78,"endTime":1479.14,"body":"could see that this car was"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1475.78,"endTime":1479.14,"body":"going to be immensely popular, I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1479.14,"endTime":1484.3600000000001,"body":"didn't know that it they would"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1479.14,"endTime":1484.3600000000001,"body":"achieve this in 2023 on a global"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1484.3600000000001,"endTime":1487.63,"body":"basis. And it's quite amazing"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1484.3600000000001,"endTime":1487.63,"body":"because the Tesla Model y is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1487.63,"endTime":1492.43,"body":"almost twice as expensive as the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1487.63,"endTime":1492.43,"body":"Toyota Corolla. And yet it's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1492.43,"endTime":1497.56,"body":"seeing this wide adoption"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1492.43,"endTime":1497.56,"body":"because of its utility, and the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1497.56,"endTime":1501.4,"body":"lifetime cost. Let's break this"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1497.56,"endTime":1501.4,"body":"down a little bit like what is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1501.4,"endTime":1507.8500000000001,"body":"driving the transition to EVs. I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1501.4,"endTime":1507.8500000000001,"body":"think of two things. There's the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1508.1200000000001,"endTime":1512.23,"body":"operating costs, you know, your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1508.1200000000001,"endTime":1512.23,"body":"one year you're running a car on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1512.23,"endTime":1517.54,"body":"electricity, not on gasoline."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1512.23,"endTime":1517.54,"body":"And then there's, and then"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1517.54,"endTime":1521.59,"body":"there's things like well, an"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1517.54,"endTime":1521.59,"body":"Eevee has many, many fewer"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1521.6200000000001,"endTime":1525.55,"body":"moving parts. And so the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1521.6200000000001,"endTime":1525.55,"body":"lifetime costs of maintaining"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1525.55,"endTime":1530.23,"body":"and operating that machine are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1525.55,"endTime":1530.23,"body":"just going to be lower, right"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1530.29,"endTime":1533.98,"body":"than an ice engine vehicle. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1530.29,"endTime":1533.98,"body":"eventually, you know, sometime"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1533.98,"endTime":1537.49,"body":"in the next five to 10 years,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1533.98,"endTime":1537.49,"body":"the ice engine goes by by"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1537.49,"endTime":1542.41,"body":"completely right, purely because"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1537.49,"endTime":1542.41,"body":"of economics. And consumers will"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1542.41,"endTime":1544.6000000000001,"body":"go where it pays right?"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1544.99,"endTime":1547.66,"body":"It will just"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1544.99,"endTime":1547.66,"body":"get tougher and tougher to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1547.66,"endTime":1552.43,"body":"support the ice platform as it"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1547.66,"endTime":1552.43,"body":"as its market share, you know,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1552.43,"endTime":1556.69,"body":"continues to shrink, if I recall"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1552.43,"endTime":1556.69,"body":"correctly, ice vehicle sales"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1556.69,"endTime":1563.32,"body":"peaked globally. I think 2000"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1556.69,"endTime":1563.32,"body":"either 2016 or seven, or 17. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1563.32,"endTime":1567.1000000000001,"body":"then just on. Just to follow up"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1563.32,"endTime":1567.1000000000001,"body":"on your remarks on Tesla. We're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1567.1000000000001,"endTime":1570.16,"body":"so fortunate in the United"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1567.1000000000001,"endTime":1570.16,"body":"States to have Tesla, because"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1570.16,"endTime":1574.15,"body":"without Tesla, we'd be almost"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1570.16,"endTime":1574.15,"body":"nowhere. And I mean, we're still"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1574.15,"endTime":1578.14,"body":"the laggard and Evie adoption,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1574.15,"endTime":1578.14,"body":"way behind China and Europe,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1578.14,"endTime":1580.99,"body":"although we're, we're starting"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1578.14,"endTime":1580.99,"body":"to catch up. But I mean, without"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1580.99,"endTime":1585.19,"body":"Tesla, we would have years and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1580.99,"endTime":1585.19,"body":"years ahead, before we could"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1585.19,"endTime":1588.97,"body":"catch up unless we were willing"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1585.19,"endTime":1588.97,"body":"to allow foreign automakers to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1588.97,"endTime":1592.84,"body":"really flood our market with"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1588.97,"endTime":1592.84,"body":"with their products. So"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1593.02,"endTime":1599.17,"body":"Americans have pretty much had"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1593.02,"endTime":1599.17,"body":"Tesla as an option, and maybe"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1599.17,"endTime":1602.59,"body":"something else if you could get"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1599.17,"endTime":1602.59,"body":"it and we're still here. You"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1602.59,"endTime":1606.1000000000001,"body":"know, somewhat there, I think"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1602.59,"endTime":1606.1000000000001,"body":"the Volkswagen ID four is going"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1606.13,"endTime":1609.64,"body":"going well, the Chevrolet Bolt"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1606.13,"endTime":1609.64,"body":"is going well, of course, it"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1609.64,"endTime":1613.0,"body":"doesn't help. When General"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1609.64,"endTime":1613.0,"body":"Motors says, here's the bolt"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1613.03,"endTime":1616.8700000000001,"body":"owner, we're going to take away"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1613.03,"endTime":1616.8700000000001,"body":"the bolt. Okay, we're sorry, we"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1616.8700000000001,"endTime":1619.78,"body":"made that mistake. Now we'll put"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1616.8700000000001,"endTime":1619.78,"body":"it back on again, that's not the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1619.78,"endTime":1623.59,"body":"kind of thing that creates"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1619.78,"endTime":1623.59,"body":"consumer confidence. And in that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1623.59,"endTime":1627.67,"body":"particular model, so that hasn't"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1623.59,"endTime":1627.67,"body":"been, you know, so helpful."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1627.73,"endTime":1629.83,"body":"Yeah, our legacy automaker,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1627.73,"endTime":1629.83,"body":"there"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1629.83,"endTime":1632.56,"body":"was a period when"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1629.83,"endTime":1632.56,"body":"I watched a lot of videos"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1632.56,"endTime":1637.72,"body":"comparing the model y to the,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1632.56,"endTime":1637.72,"body":"you know, Maki, the Ford Maki,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1637.99,"endTime":1643.18,"body":"and the ID four, right, those"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1637.99,"endTime":1643.18,"body":"three cars are competitors, and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1643.18,"endTime":1645.49,"body":"they they're shoulder to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1643.18,"endTime":1645.49,"body":"shoulder and in terms of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1645.49,"endTime":1649.24,"body":"performance, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1645.49,"endTime":1649.24,"body":"overall experience for the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1649.24,"endTime":1652.18,"body":"consumer, but it's night and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1649.24,"endTime":1652.18,"body":"day, right? How consumers are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1652.18,"endTime":1655.42,"body":"reacting to those products, and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1652.18,"endTime":1655.42,"body":"buying them."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1656.02,"endTime":1660.01,"body":"Yeah, this"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1656.02,"endTime":1660.01,"body":"this defect, this challenge of a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1660.01,"endTime":1663.97,"body":"legacy producer of something to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1660.01,"endTime":1663.97,"body":"try to make a new product, I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1663.97,"endTime":1669.46,"body":"believe, work was done around"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1663.97,"endTime":1669.46,"body":"this by Clayton Christensen at"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1669.46,"endTime":1675.22,"body":"MIT, maybe in the 50s or 60s."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1669.46,"endTime":1675.22,"body":"And he, he talked about the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1675.82,"endTime":1681.16,"body":"cultural challenge within an"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1675.82,"endTime":1681.16,"body":"incumbent right inside that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1681.16,"endTime":1686.65,"body":"corporate culture of an"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1681.16,"endTime":1686.65,"body":"incumbent to try to imagine what"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1687.13,"endTime":1691.18,"body":"a different customer would want"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1687.13,"endTime":1691.18,"body":"and how they would make a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1691.18,"endTime":1694.39,"body":"product for that new customer. I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1691.18,"endTime":1694.39,"body":"think he almost talks about it."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1694.39,"endTime":1698.8600000000001,"body":"And in terms of like a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1694.39,"endTime":1698.8600000000001,"body":"sympathetic, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1698.8600000000001,"endTime":1702.91,"body":"sympathetic view of the ability"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1698.8600000000001,"endTime":1702.91,"body":"to adopt what they want. Musk"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1702.91,"endTime":1705.55,"body":"has never had he doesn't have to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1702.91,"endTime":1705.55,"body":"deal with that he doesn't have"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1705.55,"endTime":1710.83,"body":"to deal with trying to shepherd"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1705.55,"endTime":1710.83,"body":"along and baby on previous"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1710.83,"endTime":1714.94,"body":"existing line of technology. He"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1710.83,"endTime":1714.94,"body":"also doesn't have the pension"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1715.21,"endTime":1719.5,"body":"plans. And so it's clearly been"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1715.21,"endTime":1719.5,"body":"very difficult for the legacy"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1719.5,"endTime":1723.88,"body":"automakers to handle this, I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1719.5,"endTime":1723.88,"body":"thought Ford's move to electrify"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1723.88,"endTime":1727.8700000000001,"body":"the 150 at one point, I thought"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1723.88,"endTime":1727.8700000000001,"body":"okay, they're, they've that's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1727.8700000000001,"endTime":1730.75,"body":"pretty good. Actually, instead"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1727.8700000000001,"endTime":1730.75,"body":"of trying to do all electrics,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1730.84,"endTime":1733.8700000000001,"body":"they just go with their top"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1730.84,"endTime":1733.8700000000001,"body":"selling vehicle, which is the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1733.8700000000001,"endTime":1736.15,"body":"top selling vehicle in the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1733.8700000000001,"endTime":1736.15,"body":"United States for what the last"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1736.15,"endTime":1740.29,"body":"20 years, the F 150 They're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1736.15,"endTime":1740.29,"body":"going to electrify that good"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1740.29,"endTime":1745.3,"body":"strategic decision. But Oops, no"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1740.29,"endTime":1745.3,"body":"battery capacity, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1745.45,"endTime":1749.68,"body":"for didn't do anything to make"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1745.45,"endTime":1749.68,"body":"sure that they would be able to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1750.04,"endTime":1754.42,"body":"stamp out that drive train, and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1750.04,"endTime":1754.42,"body":"they don't have the capacity"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1754.42,"endTime":1757.84,"body":"that Tesla does, or even, you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1754.42,"endTime":1757.84,"body":"know, VW has so"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1759.34,"endTime":1764.38,"body":"I had I had a Ford"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1759.34,"endTime":1764.38,"body":"150 reservation for over two and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1764.38,"endTime":1768.34,"body":"a half years before, before they"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1764.38,"endTime":1768.34,"body":"sent me the signal that I could"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1768.34,"endTime":1771.97,"body":"buy and then I was no longer in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1768.34,"endTime":1771.97,"body":"the market. Unfortunately. I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1771.97,"endTime":1777.19,"body":"love the the V to G aspects of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1771.97,"endTime":1777.19,"body":"that vehicle. I also can't"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1777.19,"endTime":1781.21,"body":"justify driving such a heavy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1777.19,"endTime":1781.21,"body":"vehicle but but anyway, you make"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1781.21,"endTime":1784.3,"body":"a very good point. Like they"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1781.21,"endTime":1784.3,"body":"don't have the capacity. They"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1784.3,"endTime":1788.29,"body":"can't make enough trucks. People"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1784.3,"endTime":1788.29,"body":"would buy them gladly, right?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1788.3500000000001,"endTime":1793.81,"body":"Absolutely. Cannot make them."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1788.3500000000001,"endTime":1793.81,"body":"And Elon, meanwhile has been"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1793.81,"endTime":1798.49,"body":"busy building Giga factories,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1793.81,"endTime":1798.49,"body":"right? And just announced"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1798.49,"endTime":1804.16,"body":"another one in Mexico, right"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1798.49,"endTime":1804.16,"body":"just on our doorstep. Man. Well,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1804.16,"endTime":1804.64,"body":"let's go"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1804.64,"endTime":1807.73,"body":"in and when he"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1804.64,"endTime":1807.73,"body":"builds a giga factory, he's he's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1807.73,"endTime":1812.17,"body":"duplicating. Right? You know,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1807.73,"endTime":1812.17,"body":"that's the that's the one way to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1812.17,"endTime":1816.19,"body":"talk about you know, the history"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1812.17,"endTime":1816.19,"body":"of planet Earth and evolution is"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1816.19,"endTime":1820.3,"body":"making copies. Once you have"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1816.19,"endTime":1820.3,"body":"found the thing that you're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1820.3,"endTime":1822.43,"body":"going to make once you've"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1820.3,"endTime":1822.43,"body":"optimized the thing you're going"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1822.43,"endTime":1826.57,"body":"to make. You just have to make"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1822.43,"endTime":1826.57,"body":"copies. And he got the head"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1826.57,"endTime":1829.24,"body":"start before everyone else. So"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1826.57,"endTime":1829.24,"body":"yeah,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1828.47,"endTime":1832.64,"body":"The Clean Power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1828.47,"endTime":1832.64,"body":"Hour is brought to you by CPS"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1832.64,"endTime":1835.82,"body":"America. The maker of North"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1832.64,"endTime":1835.82,"body":"America's number one three phase"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1835.82,"endTime":1839.06,"body":"string inverter with over six"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1835.82,"endTime":1839.06,"body":"gigawatts shipped in the US. The"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1839.06,"endTime":1842.03,"body":"CPS America product lineup"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1839.06,"endTime":1842.03,"body":"includes three phase string"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1842.03,"endTime":1847.4,"body":"inverters ranging from 25 to 275"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1842.03,"endTime":1847.4,"body":"kW, their flagship inverter, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1847.4,"endTime":1851.75,"body":"CPS 250 to 75 is designed to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1847.4,"endTime":1851.75,"body":"work with solar plants ranging"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1851.75,"endTime":1856.28,"body":"from two megawatts to two"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1851.75,"endTime":1856.28,"body":"gigawatts, the 250 to 75 pairs"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1856.28,"endTime":1860.0,"body":"well, with CPS America's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1856.28,"endTime":1860.0,"body":"exceptional data communication"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1860.15,"endTime":1863.33,"body":"controls and energy storage"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1860.15,"endTime":1863.33,"body":"solutions go to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1863.3600000000001,"endTime":1866.15,"body":"chintpowersystems.com. To find"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1863.3600000000001,"endTime":1866.15,"body":"out more."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1866.75,"endTime":1872.81,"body":"Let's talk about the economy."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1866.75,"endTime":1872.81,"body":"The larger picture right we have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1873.05,"endTime":1876.65,"body":"approximately 40 gigatons of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1873.05,"endTime":1876.65,"body":"carbon pollution that we're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1876.65,"endTime":1881.03,"body":"trying to clean out of the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1876.65,"endTime":1881.03,"body":"economy to have a green economy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1881.03,"endTime":1886.49,"body":"between now and 2050. various"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1881.03,"endTime":1886.49,"body":"states and now the federal"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1886.49,"endTime":1891.38,"body":"government are getting serious"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1886.49,"endTime":1891.38,"body":"about this. And actually 40"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1891.38,"endTime":1894.2,"body":"gigatons is in the greater"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1891.38,"endTime":1894.2,"body":"scheme of things relative"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1894.2,"endTime":1898.76,"body":"Child's Play, because we have a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1894.2,"endTime":1898.76,"body":"trillion tons or 1000 gigatons"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1898.76,"endTime":1902.51,"body":"of pollution in the atmosphere"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1898.76,"endTime":1902.51,"body":"that's causing runaway climate"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1902.51,"endTime":1906.17,"body":"change, we need to we need to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1902.51,"endTime":1906.17,"body":"get rid of those 40 gigatons."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1906.17,"endTime":1909.6200000000001,"body":"And then we need to get serious"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1906.17,"endTime":1909.6200000000001,"body":"about the 1000 gigatons that are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1909.6200000000001,"endTime":1913.82,"body":"up there because co2 in the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1909.6200000000001,"endTime":1913.82,"body":"atmosphere, the PPM have been"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1913.82,"endTime":1917.57,"body":"going up about a percent a year,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1913.82,"endTime":1917.57,"body":"right? We're at 420, we need to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1917.57,"endTime":1921.14,"body":"get sub 300. And that's another"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1917.57,"endTime":1921.14,"body":"thing that some energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1921.14,"endTime":1925.25,"body":"professionals, myself included."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1921.14,"endTime":1925.25,"body":"Forget to shine a light on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1925.25,"endTime":1929.51,"body":"sometimes like, it's great to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1925.25,"endTime":1929.51,"body":"think about those 40 gigatons"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1929.51,"endTime":1933.08,"body":"and I make my living working in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1929.51,"endTime":1933.08,"body":"solar wind and storage. And I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1933.08,"endTime":1936.08,"body":"have no, no plans to go"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1933.08,"endTime":1936.08,"body":"elsewhere. Right. That's a very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1936.08,"endTime":1940.04,"body":"important job to decarbonize the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1936.08,"endTime":1940.04,"body":"economy and clean the grid. It"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1940.04,"endTime":1944.51,"body":"is, but but what is your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1940.04,"endTime":1944.51,"body":"perspective about how humanity"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1944.51,"endTime":1948.3500000000001,"body":"is tackling this problem, per"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1944.51,"endTime":1948.3500000000001,"body":"se? I mean, the the energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1948.3500000000001,"endTime":1951.83,"body":"transition is going to happen."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1948.3500000000001,"endTime":1951.83,"body":"It's a question of how fast it's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1951.83,"endTime":1955.43,"body":"going to happen. And then"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1951.83,"endTime":1955.43,"body":"there's industry, heavy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1955.43,"endTime":1958.01,"body":"industry, right decarbonizing"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1955.43,"endTime":1958.01,"body":"heavy industry, we have the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1958.01,"endTime":1961.46,"body":"technology, I've had some of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1958.01,"endTime":1961.46,"body":"these companies on the show,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1961.58,"endTime":1964.22,"body":"like Rondo energy, you could"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1961.58,"endTime":1964.22,"body":"make green steel with"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1964.22,"endTime":1967.34,"body":"electricity, or hydrogen, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1964.22,"endTime":1967.34,"body":"Swedes are doing it with"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1967.34,"endTime":1972.02,"body":"hydrogen, I think. And so we can"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1967.34,"endTime":1972.02,"body":"truly do all the things that we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1972.02,"endTime":1975.59,"body":"do with fossil fuels with other"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1972.02,"endTime":1975.59,"body":"technologies that we can fuel"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1975.59,"endTime":1979.97,"body":"with clean electrons from the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1975.59,"endTime":1979.97,"body":"sun. But what's your perspective"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1979.97,"endTime":1983.6000000000001,"body":"on decarbonizing the economy?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1979.97,"endTime":1983.6000000000001,"body":"Thank you and that bigger for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1983.93,"endTime":1984.23,"body":"us?"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1984.28,"endTime":1987.43,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1984.28,"endTime":1987.43,"body":"asking this because I, this has"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1987.43,"endTime":1992.71,"body":"been a big focus of mine this"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1987.43,"endTime":1992.71,"body":"year. And what I'd like to do"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1992.71,"endTime":1996.01,"body":"is, try to answer your question"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1992.71,"endTime":1996.01,"body":"in three parts that I think"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1996.01,"endTime":2000.72,"body":"would be most helpful to your to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":1996.01,"endTime":2000.72,"body":"your audience wonderful. First,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2000.72,"endTime":2006.93,"body":"I want to I want to use a more"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2000.72,"endTime":2006.93,"body":"constrictive case. And that's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2006.93,"endTime":2010.68,"body":"just the case of global"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2006.93,"endTime":2010.68,"body":"electricity, just the case of,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2011.13,"endTime":2015.24,"body":"of global power. So this doesn't"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2011.13,"endTime":2015.24,"body":"include transportation and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2015.24,"endTime":2018.93,"body":"cement making and steelmaking."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2015.24,"endTime":2018.93,"body":"This is just the decarbonization"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2018.93,"endTime":2026.13,"body":"of electricity. My current I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2018.93,"endTime":2026.13,"body":"mean, if I say model, I'm"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2026.13,"endTime":2029.73,"body":"probably overestimating my"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2026.13,"endTime":2029.73,"body":"sophistication. I'll say model,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2029.73,"endTime":2036.63,"body":"my current model shows that if"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2029.73,"endTime":2036.63,"body":"the growth of wind and solar"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2037.41,"endTime":2042.6000000000001,"body":"continues, its manic pace, and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2037.41,"endTime":2042.6000000000001,"body":"I'm, I'm sure I don't have to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2042.6000000000001,"endTime":2046.65,"body":"tell you, every one of us who've"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2042.6000000000001,"endTime":2046.65,"body":"been following the sector for a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2046.65,"endTime":2051.8399999999997,"body":"decade, even we're blown away by"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2046.65,"endTime":2051.8399999999997,"body":"the by the ability of global"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2051.8399999999997,"endTime":2056.94,"body":"wind and solar, to keep tacking"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2051.8399999999997,"endTime":2056.94,"body":"on huge amounts of new capacity"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2057.0899999999997,"endTime":2063.2999999999997,"body":"on an annual basis. So my model"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2057.0899999999997,"endTime":2063.2999999999997,"body":"says, if we continue to do that,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2063.93,"endTime":2069.42,"body":"over the next six and a half"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2063.93,"endTime":2069.42,"body":"years, to the year 2030. And you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2069.42,"endTime":2074.46,"body":"plot that against what would be"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2069.42,"endTime":2074.46,"body":"a reasonable compound growth,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2074.7599999999998,"endTime":2079.98,"body":"for system demand, right? For"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2074.7599999999998,"endTime":2079.98,"body":"system demand, there's a really"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2079.98,"endTime":2086.91,"body":"good chance that admissions,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2079.98,"endTime":2086.91,"body":"total emissions from global"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2086.91,"endTime":2092.3399999999997,"body":"power will begin to fall by"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2086.91,"endTime":2092.3399999999997,"body":"2030. Now, I just want to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2092.3399999999997,"endTime":2095.97,"body":"clarify something about that."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2092.3399999999997,"endTime":2095.97,"body":"We're already moving into the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2095.97,"endTime":2100.29,"body":"phase where global emissions"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2095.97,"endTime":2100.29,"body":"just from power are starting to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2100.29,"endTime":2104.4300000000003,"body":"level out. Right? So this isn't"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2100.29,"endTime":2104.4300000000003,"body":"really, I'm going to focus more"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2104.4300000000003,"endTime":2110.79,"body":"on the decline. So electricity"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2104.4300000000003,"endTime":2110.79,"body":"is where we're making our"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2110.79,"endTime":2120.15,"body":"greatest, fastest, most broad"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2110.79,"endTime":2120.15,"body":"and concerted progress. Consider"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2120.84,"endTime":2125.07,"body":"that however, how hard it's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2120.84,"endTime":2125.07,"body":"going to be to get to declines,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2125.31,"endTime":2130.6200000000003,"body":"even if we continue going"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2125.31,"endTime":2130.6200000000003,"body":"bananas on creating wind and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2130.6200000000003,"endTime":2136.32,"body":"solar, and you just project a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2130.6200000000003,"endTime":2136.32,"body":"relatively normal to slightly"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2136.32,"endTime":2141.42,"body":"stepped up growth rate in total"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2136.32,"endTime":2141.42,"body":"system demand. Okay. That's a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2141.42,"endTime":2146.1000000000004,"body":"really good case for how"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2141.42,"endTime":2146.1000000000004,"body":"everyone can frame up this"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2146.1000000000004,"endTime":2149.82,"body":"problem, right? frame up the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2146.1000000000004,"endTime":2149.82,"body":"problem of how do we get to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2149.82,"endTime":2153.2400000000002,"body":"emissions declines? Right,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2149.82,"endTime":2153.2400000000002,"body":"that's what I'm really focused"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2153.2400000000002,"endTime":2157.26,"body":"on. Now. I'm not as focused on"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2153.2400000000002,"endTime":2157.26,"body":"getting to an emissions plateau."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2157.44,"endTime":2161.46,"body":"I think we're Tim, I think we're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2157.44,"endTime":2161.46,"body":"headed there. We're, whether"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2161.46,"endTime":2164.5800000000004,"body":"it's even global electricity, or"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2161.46,"endTime":2164.5800000000004,"body":"now we can expand it to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2164.5800000000004,"endTime":2169.0200000000004,"body":"everything global. We are"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2164.5800000000004,"endTime":2169.0200000000004,"body":"heading right into peak"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2169.0800000000004,"endTime":2174.4500000000003,"body":"emissions, globally. And that's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2169.0800000000004,"endTime":2174.4500000000003,"body":"very encouraging. What silver"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2174.4500000000003,"endTime":2179.4,"body":"sobering is what it will mean to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2174.4500000000003,"endTime":2179.4,"body":"get to declines. Now. Let's go"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2179.4,"endTime":2183.36,"body":"to the third piece, the economy."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2179.4,"endTime":2183.36,"body":"I've written a lot about this."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2183.4500000000003,"endTime":2189.1800000000003,"body":"And you may recall, I devote a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2183.4500000000003,"endTime":2189.1800000000003,"body":"whole section of this in my"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2189.3300000000004,"endTime":2195.15,"body":"ebook oil fall, I devote a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2189.3300000000004,"endTime":2195.15,"body":"section to the really"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2195.1800000000003,"endTime":2201.51,"body":"spectacular prize that awaits"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2195.1800000000003,"endTime":2201.51,"body":"us, and that prize is running"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2201.84,"endTime":2207.3300000000004,"body":"the same economy with the same"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2201.84,"endTime":2207.3300000000004,"body":"services and the same demand on"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2207.3300000000004,"endTime":2211.7700000000004,"body":"less energy. Because as we know,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2207.3300000000004,"endTime":2211.7700000000004,"body":"renewable energy and clean"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2211.7700000000004,"endTime":2216.8100000000004,"body":"energy doesn't involve"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2211.7700000000004,"endTime":2216.8100000000004,"body":"combustion. And every time you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2216.8100000000004,"endTime":2220.8300000000004,"body":"involve combustion, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2216.8100000000004,"endTime":2220.8300000000004,"body":"in an individual engine, you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2220.8300000000004,"endTime":2224.34,"body":"know, driving down Interstate"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2220.8300000000004,"endTime":2224.34,"body":"five from LA to San Diego, or"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2224.34,"endTime":2229.1400000000003,"body":"whether it's in a massive coal"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2224.34,"endTime":2229.1400000000003,"body":"plant, you know, in Wyoming, the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2229.17,"endTime":2232.05,"body":"heat losses, which is just"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2229.17,"endTime":2232.05,"body":"another way of saying energy"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2232.05,"endTime":2236.6400000000003,"body":"losses is are catastrophic. When"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2232.05,"endTime":2236.6400000000003,"body":"you drive from LA to San Diego,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2236.9100000000003,"endTime":2240.3300000000004,"body":"you fill up your car, and what's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2236.9100000000003,"endTime":2240.3300000000004,"body":"that going to cost now about 80"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2240.3300000000004,"endTime":2244.2900000000004,"body":"bucks, right? So you drive for"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2240.3300000000004,"endTime":2244.2900000000004,"body":"every dollar you put in your"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2244.2900000000004,"endTime":2248.2500000000005,"body":"car, to drive to San Diego, at"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2244.2900000000004,"endTime":2248.2500000000005,"body":"least 50 cents of that just"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2248.2500000000005,"endTime":2251.8500000000004,"body":"blows out the tailpipe you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2248.2500000000005,"endTime":2251.8500000000004,"body":"didn't use, you didn't get to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2251.8500000000004,"endTime":2255.03,"body":"use that energy, you didn't get"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2251.8500000000004,"endTime":2255.03,"body":"to capture it, it's wasted"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2255.03,"endTime":2259.86,"body":"energy. And that's our emissions"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2255.03,"endTime":2259.86,"body":"problem. So we should not fear I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2259.86,"endTime":2264.3,"body":"used to fear, I used to fear"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2259.86,"endTime":2264.3,"body":"that energy transition would"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2264.3,"endTime":2269.76,"body":"mean a big step down in global"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2264.3,"endTime":2269.76,"body":"growth in human, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2269.76,"endTime":2273.03,"body":"might cause an interruption in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2269.76,"endTime":2273.03,"body":"human progress for wealth,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2273.03,"endTime":2277.32,"body":"because it would be so"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2273.03,"endTime":2277.32,"body":"disruptive. I that was 15 years"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2277.32,"endTime":2279.63,"body":"ago, I thought that when I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2277.32,"endTime":2279.63,"body":"didn't know as much as I know,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2279.63,"endTime":2284.8500000000004,"body":"now, the prize that awaits us is"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2279.63,"endTime":2284.8500000000004,"body":"that we can have the world that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2284.8500000000004,"endTime":2289.5000000000005,"body":"we have today, using less"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2284.8500000000004,"endTime":2289.5000000000005,"body":"energy, we'll get there with"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2289.53,"endTime":2293.28,"body":"electricity first, then we'll"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2289.53,"endTime":2293.28,"body":"get there with transportation."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2294.03,"endTime":2298.3500000000004,"body":"And then there will be those"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2294.03,"endTime":2298.3500000000004,"body":"hard to abate sectors like"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2298.3500000000004,"endTime":2303.69,"body":"steel, and cement, where things"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2298.3500000000004,"endTime":2303.69,"body":"get tricky and complicated. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2303.69,"endTime":2308.4900000000002,"body":"let's remember to conduct energy"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2303.69,"endTime":2308.4900000000002,"body":"transition is a global"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2308.5200000000004,"endTime":2311.61,"body":"infrastructure project. And when"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2308.5200000000004,"endTime":2311.61,"body":"you're building infrastructure,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2311.94,"endTime":2316.32,"body":"you need cement, and steel, and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2311.94,"endTime":2316.32,"body":"lots of it. So that's going to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2316.32,"endTime":2320.55,"body":"be the tougher thing. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2316.32,"endTime":2320.55,"body":"very encouraged, that we're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2320.55,"endTime":2324.51,"body":"going as fast as we are. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2320.55,"endTime":2324.51,"body":"not concerned at all about the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2324.51,"endTime":2330.4800000000005,"body":"economy. I'm in the boom, the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2324.51,"endTime":2330.4800000000005,"body":"energy transition economic boom,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2331.05,"endTime":2333.96,"body":"camp. And I know that some"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2331.05,"endTime":2333.96,"body":"people when they hear me say"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2333.96,"endTime":2338.94,"body":"that will vigorously disagree."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2333.96,"endTime":2338.94,"body":"They have some people have very"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2338.94,"endTime":2342.15,"body":"negative views about renewable"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2338.94,"endTime":2342.15,"body":"energy and what it can do for"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2342.15,"endTime":2346.38,"body":"us. But I don't think that that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2342.15,"endTime":2346.38,"body":"view is a is a competitive view."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2346.6800000000003,"endTime":2349.59,"body":"Yeah. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2346.6800000000003,"endTime":2349.59,"body":"we're going to triple the amount"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2349.59,"endTime":2352.65,"body":"of electricity we use first and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2349.59,"endTime":2352.65,"body":"foremost when we electrify"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2352.65,"endTime":2356.2200000000003,"body":"transportation, right. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2352.65,"endTime":2356.2200000000003,"body":"that's a lot of economic"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2356.2200000000003,"endTime":2361.3500000000004,"body":"activity. That's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2356.2200000000003,"endTime":2361.3500000000004,"body":"building of grid of solar, wind"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2361.3500000000004,"endTime":2366.1200000000003,"body":"and batteries, and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2361.3500000000004,"endTime":2366.1200000000003,"body":"decommissioning dirty power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2366.1200000000003,"endTime":2370.86,"body":"plants, which is good for human"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2366.1200000000003,"endTime":2370.86,"body":"health. Okay. Now, there is a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2371.07,"endTime":2375.03,"body":"there is a jobs transition here,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2371.07,"endTime":2375.03,"body":"right, we have to be sensitive"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2375.3300000000004,"endTime":2380.01,"body":"to transitioning workers, that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2375.3300000000004,"endTime":2380.01,"body":"includes miners, and people that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2380.01,"endTime":2385.86,"body":"run these thermal power plants."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2380.01,"endTime":2385.86,"body":"But but states can do this. We"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2385.86,"endTime":2389.19,"body":"have good legislation in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2385.86,"endTime":2389.19,"body":"Illinois, the climate and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2389.19,"endTime":2394.0800000000004,"body":"equitable JOBS Act known as"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2389.19,"endTime":2394.0800000000004,"body":"Seija. That has provisions to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2394.0800000000004,"endTime":2399.03,"body":"incentivize power plant owners"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2394.0800000000004,"endTime":2399.03,"body":"to shutter those dirty"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2399.03,"endTime":2404.19,"body":"facilities, and help workers"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2399.03,"endTime":2404.19,"body":"transition into wind, solar and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2404.19,"endTime":2407.34,"body":"battery. And, and it's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2404.19,"endTime":2407.34,"body":"happening."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2407.7300000000005,"endTime":2411.51,"body":"But just one"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2407.7300000000005,"endTime":2411.51,"body":"small point there. You said, I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2411.51,"endTime":2416.1600000000003,"body":"think you said that your rough"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2411.51,"endTime":2416.1600000000003,"body":"gauge or estimate was that we"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2416.1600000000003,"endTime":2420.6600000000003,"body":"would triple electricity"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2416.1600000000003,"endTime":2420.6600000000003,"body":"consumption because of the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2420.6600000000003,"endTime":2425.8500000000004,"body":"electrification of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2420.6600000000003,"endTime":2425.8500000000004,"body":"transportation. i i to see a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2425.8500000000004,"endTime":2429.8100000000004,"body":"potential tripling of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2425.8500000000004,"endTime":2429.8100000000004,"body":"electricity demand globally as"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2429.8100000000004,"endTime":2434.0400000000004,"body":"we do this transition, because"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2429.8100000000004,"endTime":2434.0400000000004,"body":"this transition, as your your"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2434.0400000000004,"endTime":2437.07,"body":"audience also knows is really"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2434.0400000000004,"endTime":2437.07,"body":"about the transition to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2437.07,"endTime":2444.6000000000004,"body":"electricity, right. But I kind"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2437.07,"endTime":2444.6000000000004,"body":"of have more like a 50 to 70%"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2445.5000000000005,"endTime":2449.7900000000004,"body":"increase in electrical"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2445.5000000000005,"endTime":2449.7900000000004,"body":"electricity demand, just from"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2449.7900000000004,"endTime":2455.67,"body":"that transportation piece. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2449.7900000000004,"endTime":2455.67,"body":"that's because we reduce so"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2455.67,"endTime":2459.15,"body":"much. You know, if you take"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2455.67,"endTime":2459.15,"body":"California runs all the vehicles"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2459.15,"endTime":2463.2900000000004,"body":"currently on about 15 billion"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2459.15,"endTime":2463.2900000000004,"body":"gallons a day, just chop that in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2463.2900000000004,"endTime":2467.82,"body":"half and energy terms. When you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2463.2900000000004,"endTime":2467.82,"body":"electrify it all you're you're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2467.82,"endTime":2473.1000000000004,"body":"basically down to seven and a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2467.82,"endTime":2473.1000000000004,"body":"half billion gallons. Sorry, not"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2473.1000000000004,"endTime":2476.76,"body":"per day, but per year, on a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2473.1000000000004,"endTime":2476.76,"body":"basis. So but if you have more"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2476.76,"endTime":2480.0600000000004,"body":"to say about that tripling and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2476.76,"endTime":2480.0600000000004,"body":"maybe you can educate me about"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2480.0600000000004,"endTime":2484.1400000000003,"body":"something I just wanted to let"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2480.0600000000004,"endTime":2484.1400000000003,"body":"you know I use you know if it's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2484.17,"endTime":2488.07,"body":"x, we're going to 1.5 to 1.7x"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2488.13,"endTime":2490.65,"body":"Yeah, right. I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2488.13,"endTime":2490.65,"body":"think when I say triple I'm"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2490.65,"endTime":2495.6000000000004,"body":"taking into account also HVAC"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2490.65,"endTime":2495.6000000000004,"body":"and industry applications in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2495.9300000000003,"endTime":2499.11,"body":"industrial applications."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2495.9300000000003,"endTime":2499.11,"body":"Transportation alone. I don't"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2499.11,"endTime":2506.76,"body":"know what what that does, but"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2499.11,"endTime":2506.76,"body":"but it is It is. Well, I I'm not"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2506.76,"endTime":2509.9700000000003,"body":"an engineer. I don't know."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2506.76,"endTime":2509.9700000000003,"body":"Exactly. I agree on that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2509.9700000000003,"endTime":2514.1400000000003,"body":"tripling though. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2509.9700000000003,"endTime":2514.1400000000003,"body":"everything over. And I mean, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2514.1400000000003,"endTime":2517.1400000000003,"body":"good news is, is there's plenty"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2514.1400000000003,"endTime":2517.1400000000003,"body":"of of wind and solar to go"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2517.1400000000003,"endTime":2521.2200000000003,"body":"around, we get five to 10,000"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2517.1400000000003,"endTime":2521.2200000000003,"body":"times more energy from the sun,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2521.4,"endTime":2525.69,"body":"then all of society uses on an"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2521.4,"endTime":2525.69,"body":"annual basis, it's five to 10."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2525.69,"endTime":2529.86,"body":"Because I mean, at today's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2525.69,"endTime":2529.86,"body":"levels, it's 10. But because"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2529.86,"endTime":2535.0200000000004,"body":"we're going to use more"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2529.86,"endTime":2535.0200000000004,"body":"electricity, I say, five 5000."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2535.0200000000004,"endTime":2539.2200000000003,"body":"So anyway, we're swimming in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2535.0200000000004,"endTime":2539.2200000000003,"body":"energy from the sun. And now we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2539.2200000000003,"endTime":2542.34,"body":"have the technology in the form"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2539.2200000000003,"endTime":2542.34,"body":"of solar photovoltaics, solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2542.34,"endTime":2546.9300000000003,"body":"PV, and wind. And now storage"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2542.34,"endTime":2546.9300000000003,"body":"technologies, including"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2546.9300000000003,"endTime":2551.0400000000004,"body":"batteries, but also hot sand,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2546.9300000000003,"endTime":2551.0400000000004,"body":"heartbreaks, and various and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2551.0400000000004,"endTime":2554.6400000000003,"body":"sundry other concentrated"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2551.0400000000004,"endTime":2554.6400000000003,"body":"technologies. Right, we have the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2554.6400000000003,"endTime":2557.7900000000004,"body":"technology as Tigger Shah loves"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2554.6400000000003,"endTime":2557.7900000000004,"body":"to say, and I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2558.2700000000004,"endTime":2561.78,"body":"reverberate a little bit on a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2558.2700000000004,"endTime":2561.78,"body":"comment you had about about the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2561.8100000000004,"endTime":2565.2000000000003,"body":"economic growth opportunity."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2561.8100000000004,"endTime":2565.2000000000003,"body":"This is what people call a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2565.2000000000003,"endTime":2569.82,"body":"wealth transfer opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2565.2000000000003,"endTime":2569.82,"body":"the tune of $100 trillion. It is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2569.82,"endTime":2575.82,"body":"a great economic boon for the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2569.82,"endTime":2575.82,"body":"global economy. And yes, it's it"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2575.82,"endTime":2580.3500000000004,"body":"we're going to shrink some"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2575.82,"endTime":2580.3500000000004,"body":"sectors, okay. coal sector is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2580.3500000000004,"endTime":2585.3,"body":"dying. coal companies are going"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2580.3500000000004,"endTime":2585.3,"body":"bankrupt, right? Coal mining"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2585.3,"endTime":2588.57,"body":"companies are going bankrupt"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2585.3,"endTime":2588.57,"body":"because the economics of coal"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2588.6000000000004,"endTime":2593.46,"body":"are no longer there. And that's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2588.6000000000004,"endTime":2593.46,"body":"wonderful for human health. It's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2593.46,"endTime":2596.34,"body":"not great if you're a coal"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2593.46,"endTime":2596.34,"body":"miner, or you live in a cold"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2596.34,"endTime":2601.8900000000003,"body":"state, but trust me, there are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2596.34,"endTime":2601.8900000000003,"body":"opportunities, right. We see Joe"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2601.8900000000003,"endTime":2606.2700000000004,"body":"Manchin in West Virginia getting"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2601.8900000000003,"endTime":2606.2700000000004,"body":"behind the IRA, right? Because"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2606.2700000000004,"endTime":2610.7700000000004,"body":"he knows that there is economic"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2606.2700000000004,"endTime":2610.7700000000004,"body":"opportunity. And we see the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2610.7700000000004,"endTime":2614.5800000000004,"body":"battery factories getting built"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2610.7700000000004,"endTime":2614.5800000000004,"body":"now in West Virginia, right?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2615.0600000000004,"endTime":2617.94,"body":"Form, energy form, energy, thank"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2615.0600000000004,"endTime":2617.94,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2617.9700000000003,"endTime":2621.5400000000004,"body":"home from my"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2617.9700000000003,"endTime":2621.5400000000004,"body":"home base in Massachusetts, and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2621.5400000000004,"endTime":2627.0000000000005,"body":"their iron oxide of battery,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2621.5400000000004,"endTime":2627.0000000000005,"body":"flow, battery, iron flow"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2627.0000000000005,"endTime":2632.4,"body":"batteries. And you know, we just"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2627.0000000000005,"endTime":2632.4,"body":"speaking on economics, we have"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2632.4,"endTime":2638.7000000000003,"body":"portions of this country that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2632.4,"endTime":2638.7000000000003,"body":"began to D industrialize as far"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2638.7000000000003,"endTime":2646.11,"body":"back as 70 years ago. And there"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2638.7000000000003,"endTime":2646.11,"body":"are recovery. And recoveries"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2646.1400000000003,"endTime":2650.0400000000004,"body":"didn't come. You only have to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2646.1400000000003,"endTime":2650.0400000000004,"body":"drive through Pennsylvania and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2650.0400000000004,"endTime":2653.9700000000003,"body":"Ohio and West Virginia, and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2650.0400000000004,"endTime":2653.9700000000003,"body":"Illinois and Chicago, Detroit"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2654.1800000000003,"endTime":2657.03,"body":"Rust Belt. It's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2654.1800000000003,"endTime":2657.03,"body":"abysmal. Right?"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2657.8700000000003,"endTime":2662.6400000000003,"body":"And yet, isn't"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2657.8700000000003,"endTime":2662.6400000000003,"body":"it interesting? Those property"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2662.6400000000003,"endTime":2667.5600000000004,"body":"values and buildings values, you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2662.6400000000003,"endTime":2667.5600000000004,"body":"know, probably dropped down in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2667.5600000000004,"endTime":2671.67,"body":"many places close to zero, I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2667.5600000000004,"endTime":2671.67,"body":"think form energy is going into"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2672.42,"endTime":2676.2300000000005,"body":"an older steel plant, correct"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2672.42,"endTime":2676.2300000000005,"body":"some West Virginia, right. And,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2676.8900000000003,"endTime":2680.88,"body":"you know, it's like land values"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2676.8900000000003,"endTime":2680.88,"body":"are not high in West and you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2680.88,"endTime":2684.8100000000004,"body":"know, in West Virginia, that's a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2680.88,"endTime":2684.8100000000004,"body":"fan what a great resource we"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2684.8100000000004,"endTime":2688.9500000000003,"body":"have. And it when you look at"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2684.8100000000004,"endTime":2688.9500000000003,"body":"the map that's forming now, with"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2688.9500000000003,"endTime":2692.88,"body":"all this investment from the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2688.9500000000003,"endTime":2692.88,"body":"IRA, where's it going? It's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2692.88,"endTime":2697.65,"body":"going into a lot of those states"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2692.88,"endTime":2697.65,"body":"that have stagnated"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2698.4900000000002,"endTime":2704.2200000000003,"body":"economically, for many years."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2698.4900000000002,"endTime":2704.2200000000003,"body":"And so yes, I refer to you said"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2704.34,"endTime":2708.3300000000004,"body":"it's an energy, it's a, a wealth"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2704.34,"endTime":2708.3300000000004,"body":"transfer event. Yep, that would"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2708.3300000000004,"endTime":2711.09,"body":"be one term. The term I use is"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2708.3300000000004,"endTime":2711.09,"body":"that a wealth creation event."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2711.09,"endTime":2715.65,"body":"Because if you look at the, if"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2711.09,"endTime":2715.65,"body":"you look at the the first energy"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2715.65,"endTime":2719.01,"body":"transition from biomass to coal,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2715.65,"endTime":2719.01,"body":"and then you look at the second"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2719.01,"endTime":2723.78,"body":"one, from coal to oil, each The"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2719.01,"endTime":2723.78,"body":"reason humans do energy"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2723.78,"endTime":2730.8300000000004,"body":"transition, is because you get a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2723.78,"endTime":2730.8300000000004,"body":"gain in biological, physical"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2730.9800000000005,"endTime":2735.09,"body":"terms. It's not imaginary, it's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2730.9800000000005,"endTime":2735.09,"body":"not theoretical. When you go"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2735.09,"endTime":2739.7400000000002,"body":"from wood to coal, you're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2735.09,"endTime":2739.7400000000002,"body":"stepping up your energy density"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2739.7400000000002,"endTime":2743.76,"body":"four times when you go from coal"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2739.7400000000002,"endTime":2743.76,"body":"to oil, you're basically doing"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2744.15,"endTime":2747.09,"body":"one and a half to doubling but"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2744.15,"endTime":2747.09,"body":"you've but now you're going from"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2747.09,"endTime":2750.84,"body":"a solid to a liquid, which"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2747.09,"endTime":2750.84,"body":"allows you to do so many things."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2750.9300000000003,"endTime":2754.92,"body":"It's the exact same thing with"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2750.9300000000003,"endTime":2754.92,"body":"wind, and solar, which are"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2754.92,"endTime":2758.76,"body":"really just commodities. Now,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2754.92,"endTime":2758.76,"body":"wind and solar are like cheap"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2759.0600000000004,"endTime":2762.8100000000004,"body":"commodities, they go up fast."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2759.0600000000004,"endTime":2762.8100000000004,"body":"And anyone who's an entrepreneur"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2762.8100000000004,"endTime":2766.17,"body":"or who's in business knows, the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2762.8100000000004,"endTime":2766.17,"body":"faster you take your investment"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2766.17,"endTime":2769.1400000000003,"body":"money and convert it into a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2766.17,"endTime":2769.1400000000003,"body":"machine that makes money for"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2769.1400000000003,"endTime":2771.96,"body":"you. That's called return on"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2769.1400000000003,"endTime":2771.96,"body":"investment. And the faster that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2771.96,"endTime":2775.9800000000005,"body":"you get return on investment, it"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2771.96,"endTime":2775.9800000000005,"body":"just skews and changes all the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2775.9800000000005,"endTime":2779.01,"body":"economics in your favor. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2775.9800000000005,"endTime":2779.01,"body":"that's happening here. It's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2779.01,"endTime":2781.2900000000004,"body":"happening in India, it's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2779.01,"endTime":2781.2900000000004,"body":"happening in China. It's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2781.2900000000004,"endTime":2783.4500000000003,"body":"happening in Northern Europe."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2781.2900000000004,"endTime":2783.4500000000003,"body":"It's wonderful. It's happening"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2783.4500000000003,"endTime":2787.26,"body":"everywhere. And yeah, so that's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2783.4500000000003,"endTime":2787.26,"body":"why solar is exploding. And it"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2787.26,"endTime":2791.1000000000004,"body":"is going to be a wealth creation"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2787.26,"endTime":2791.1000000000004,"body":"event will become wealthier. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2791.1000000000004,"endTime":2793.9500000000003,"body":"to one of your points. One of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2791.1000000000004,"endTime":2793.9500000000003,"body":"the ways will become wealthier"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2794.1000000000004,"endTime":2798.15,"body":"is through health will become"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2794.1000000000004,"endTime":2798.15,"body":"wealthier through health. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2798.15,"endTime":2802.5600000000004,"body":"yes, it is tough when a coal"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2798.15,"endTime":2802.5600000000004,"body":"miner loses his job. She You"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2802.5600000000004,"endTime":2804.69,"body":"can't go back on YouTube and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2802.5600000000004,"endTime":2804.69,"body":"look at Bobby Kennedy"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2804.69,"endTime":2809.67,"body":"campaigning in coal country in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2804.69,"endTime":2809.67,"body":"the 1960s, saying, I'm so sorry,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2809.67,"endTime":2812.1000000000004,"body":"you guys lost their jobs, and we"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2809.67,"endTime":2812.1000000000004,"body":"got to do something for the coal"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2812.1000000000004,"endTime":2816.0000000000005,"body":"miners. I mean, disruption to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2812.1000000000004,"endTime":2816.0000000000005,"body":"coal has been going on for a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2816.0000000000005,"endTime":2821.1000000000004,"body":"long time. So it's better for"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2816.0000000000005,"endTime":2821.1000000000004,"body":"it's better for everybody. If we"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2821.28,"endTime":2826.7400000000002,"body":"take the pain, help people out,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2821.28,"endTime":2826.7400000000002,"body":"I always help people out when"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2827.1000000000004,"endTime":2830.5800000000004,"body":"they're have lost their jobs"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2827.1000000000004,"endTime":2830.5800000000004,"body":"from a stranded industry. always"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2830.5800000000004,"endTime":2835.4700000000003,"body":"help. retrain, retrain them. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2830.5800000000004,"endTime":2835.4700000000003,"body":"I want to and I think we're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2835.4700000000003,"endTime":2838.38,"body":"doing that now. And I want us to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2835.4700000000003,"endTime":2838.38,"body":"see us do more of it."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2838.9500000000003,"endTime":2841.32,"body":"Yeah, it's like we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2838.9500000000003,"endTime":2841.32,"body":"had nothing against horses,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2841.32,"endTime":2845.2500000000005,"body":"right? When we transitioned from"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2841.32,"endTime":2845.2500000000005,"body":"horse and buggy to ice engine."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2845.46,"endTime":2848.55,"body":"And that happened over, over"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2845.46,"endTime":2848.55,"body":"just over a decade, right?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2848.55,"endTime":2852.4500000000003,"body":"There's that wonderful photo of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2848.55,"endTime":2852.4500000000003,"body":"New York City in 1901. And then"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2852.4500000000003,"endTime":2856.05,"body":"in 1913, right, it's all horse"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2852.4500000000003,"endTime":2856.05,"body":"and buggy. And then it's all ice"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2856.05,"endTime":2860.76,"body":"engine 12 years later. That's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2856.05,"endTime":2860.76,"body":"amazing. And, and then a whole"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2860.76,"endTime":2863.9700000000003,"body":"industry in two decades just"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2860.76,"endTime":2863.9700000000003,"body":"goes poof, right? And you point"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2863.9700000000003,"endTime":2867.5400000000004,"body":"this out in your newsletter as"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2863.9700000000003,"endTime":2867.5400000000004,"body":"well. And there's the book clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2867.5400000000004,"endTime":2871.5000000000005,"body":"disruption, which I which I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2867.5400000000004,"endTime":2871.5000000000005,"body":"often refer to that that leans"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2871.5000000000005,"endTime":2874.8300000000004,"body":"on this. And now we're so now"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2871.5000000000005,"endTime":2874.8300000000004,"body":"we're transitioning from oil to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2874.8300000000004,"endTime":2878.5800000000004,"body":"electrons, right. And we happen"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2874.8300000000004,"endTime":2878.5800000000004,"body":"to have a source of clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2878.5800000000004,"endTime":2882.0600000000004,"body":"electrons, theoretically,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2878.5800000000004,"endTime":2882.0600000000004,"body":"emission free. I mean, there are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2882.0600000000004,"endTime":2885.7200000000003,"body":"omissions involved in making"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2882.0600000000004,"endTime":2885.7200000000003,"body":"solar panels and wind turbines."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2885.9300000000003,"endTime":2888.8700000000003,"body":"And people, smart people, people"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2885.9300000000003,"endTime":2888.8700000000003,"body":"much smarter than me have done"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2888.8700000000003,"endTime":2892.38,"body":"the math on that. And yes, it is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2888.8700000000003,"endTime":2892.38,"body":"still carbon negative to do"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2892.38,"endTime":2898.7700000000004,"body":"this, right. And it does work."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2892.38,"endTime":2898.7700000000004,"body":"It is paradoxical, Gregor, that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2898.8,"endTime":2903.9300000000003,"body":"places like China and India are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2898.8,"endTime":2903.9300000000003,"body":"still building coal plants. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2904.3500000000004,"endTime":2907.8,"body":"leaning into the clean energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2904.3500000000004,"endTime":2907.8,"body":"transition, do you think that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2908.1000000000004,"endTime":2912.1800000000003,"body":"those countries will transition"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2908.1000000000004,"endTime":2912.1800000000003,"body":"faster away from coal, then the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2912.1800000000003,"endTime":2913.86,"body":"current trajectory predicts?"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2914.46,"endTime":2915.8700000000003,"body":"Yeah, I'm kind"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2914.46,"endTime":2915.8700000000003,"body":"of glad you brought that up,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2915.8700000000003,"endTime":2921.6600000000003,"body":"because it shows that even in a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2915.8700000000003,"endTime":2921.6600000000003,"body":"command economy, right, like,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2921.69,"endTime":2925.71,"body":"like China, which has more"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2921.69,"endTime":2925.71,"body":"economy, by committee, and so"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2925.71,"endTime":2934.5600000000004,"body":"forth, even there, they have the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2925.71,"endTime":2934.5600000000004,"body":"legacy approaches, like coal"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2934.5600000000004,"endTime":2939.1200000000003,"body":"fired power generation,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2934.5600000000004,"endTime":2939.1200000000003,"body":"constituencies build up around"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2939.1200000000003,"endTime":2943.2300000000005,"body":"that people have their careers"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2939.1200000000003,"endTime":2943.2300000000005,"body":"in coal, they have their careers"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2943.2300000000005,"endTime":2947.9100000000003,"body":"and coal plant equipment. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2943.2300000000005,"endTime":2947.9100000000003,"body":"it's not easy politically, even"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2947.9100000000003,"endTime":2951.9300000000003,"body":"for China, to simply say, we'll"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2947.9100000000003,"endTime":2951.9300000000003,"body":"just dump all the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2951.9300000000003,"endTime":2955.9500000000003,"body":"we'll just dump all the coal,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2951.9300000000003,"endTime":2955.9500000000003,"body":"the one encouraging thing, the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2955.9500000000003,"endTime":2959.5800000000004,"body":"way it answer your question is,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2955.9500000000003,"endTime":2959.5800000000004,"body":"China can continue to build more"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2959.5800000000004,"endTime":2964.32,"body":"coal capacity, it already has"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2959.5800000000004,"endTime":2964.32,"body":"too much. So go ahead China and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2964.32,"endTime":2968.07,"body":"build more coal capacity,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2964.32,"endTime":2968.07,"body":"because, you know, with the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2968.07,"endTime":2971.5800000000004,"body":"exception of years, like 2022,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2968.07,"endTime":2971.5800000000004,"body":"when we had a global shortage of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2971.5800000000004,"endTime":2976.38,"body":"coal and natural gas, the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2971.5800000000004,"endTime":2976.38,"body":"capacity factor of the coal"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2976.38,"endTime":2980.94,"body":"fleet is runs along at like an"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2976.38,"endTime":2980.94,"body":"incredible is it like 30, or"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2981.21,"endTime":2988.38,"body":"35%? Or, or 40%. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2981.21,"endTime":2988.38,"body":"I talked to Glenn Peters at"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2988.38,"endTime":2992.9100000000003,"body":"Cicero. And I think that's in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2988.38,"endTime":2992.9100000000003,"body":"Norway, or Sweden or Denmark, I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2992.9100000000003,"endTime":2995.5800000000004,"body":"can't think of where that's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2992.9100000000003,"endTime":2995.5800000000004,"body":"located might be in Oslo,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2995.5800000000004,"endTime":2999.3900000000003,"body":"actually. And he he keyed me in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2995.5800000000004,"endTime":2999.3900000000003,"body":"on this about 10 years ago. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2999.3900000000003,"endTime":3002.2700000000004,"body":"he said, the one thing, you got"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":2999.3900000000003,"endTime":3002.2700000000004,"body":"to be careful that China's that,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3002.36,"endTime":3005.3,"body":"yes, they're going towards clean"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3002.36,"endTime":3005.3,"body":"energy, yes, they want to get"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3005.3,"endTime":3008.42,"body":"rid of coal, they've got a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3005.3,"endTime":3008.42,"body":"cultural imperative to bring"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3008.42,"endTime":3011.4800000000005,"body":"that coal down or make us up."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3008.42,"endTime":3011.4800000000005,"body":"But he said, they've got so much"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3011.4800000000005,"endTime":3015.2300000000005,"body":"capacity that occasionally"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3011.4800000000005,"endTime":3015.2300000000005,"body":"you'll see years, when there are"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3015.2300000000005,"endTime":3019.4900000000002,"body":"shortages, they'll have to rely"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3015.2300000000005,"endTime":3019.4900000000002,"body":"on that extra coal capacity. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3019.4900000000002,"endTime":3022.76,"body":"it will suck basically, when you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3019.4900000000002,"endTime":3022.76,"body":"get the data on that. And that's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3022.76,"endTime":3026.0000000000005,"body":"what happened in 2022. We had,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3022.76,"endTime":3026.0000000000005,"body":"you know, global coal"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3026.15,"endTime":3031.0400000000004,"body":"consumption peaked in 2013. We"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3026.15,"endTime":3031.0400000000004,"body":"all thought it was over it when"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3031.0400000000004,"endTime":3035.2400000000002,"body":"Gen into gentle decline for"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3031.0400000000004,"endTime":3035.2400000000002,"body":"seven years. And then in 2021,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3035.2400000000002,"endTime":3038.9900000000002,"body":"and 2022, boom, it came back up"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3035.2400000000002,"endTime":3038.9900000000002,"body":"again. Now, that's a short live"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3038.9900000000002,"endTime":3044.69,"body":"thing, but it shows you the it,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3038.9900000000002,"endTime":3044.69,"body":"I like in my work, which is all"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3044.69,"endTime":3047.84,"body":"about renewables. Now, I do like"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3044.69,"endTime":3047.84,"body":"to remind people about"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3047.84,"endTime":3052.34,"body":"structural dependencies, path"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3047.84,"endTime":3052.34,"body":"dependencies, the way the world"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3052.34,"endTime":3055.6400000000003,"body":"was set up last century, you"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3052.34,"endTime":3055.6400000000003,"body":"know, the last century is still"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3055.6400000000003,"endTime":3059.84,"body":"with us. It's still, you know,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3055.6400000000003,"endTime":3059.84,"body":"it's still a burden on us. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3059.84,"endTime":3062.42,"body":"we're, you know, we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3059.84,"endTime":3062.42,"body":"try to handle it, but it's not"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3062.42,"endTime":3069.9800000000005,"body":"easy even for China and India."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3062.42,"endTime":3069.9800000000005,"body":"Well, Modi, came to power in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3069.9800000000005,"endTime":3076.5200000000004,"body":"2014. He had an energy minister"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3069.9800000000005,"endTime":3076.5200000000004,"body":"named Piyush Goyal, they did one"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3076.55,"endTime":3083.6600000000003,"body":"really big, right, correct"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3076.55,"endTime":3083.6600000000003,"body":"thing. They said, our country is"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3083.6600000000003,"endTime":3087.2000000000003,"body":"where all the people in the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3083.6600000000003,"endTime":3087.2000000000003,"body":"world were the most. If you try"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3087.2000000000003,"endTime":3090.05,"body":"to find the most people in the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3087.2000000000003,"endTime":3090.05,"body":"world that have no access to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3090.05,"endTime":3093.71,"body":"electricity, it's everywhere."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3090.05,"endTime":3093.71,"body":"But the but the biggest chunk is"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3093.71,"endTime":3098.0000000000005,"body":"here in India. Let's solve that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3093.71,"endTime":3098.0000000000005,"body":"problem. And India has done a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3098.0000000000005,"endTime":3104.2700000000004,"body":"very good job of electrifying"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3098.0000000000005,"endTime":3104.2700000000004,"body":"but they are not doing a good"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3104.2700000000004,"endTime":3109.5200000000004,"body":"job on building enough solar,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3104.2700000000004,"endTime":3109.5200000000004,"body":"they need to build solar like"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3109.5200000000004,"endTime":3112.67,"body":"crazy like everyone else. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3109.5200000000004,"endTime":3112.67,"body":"they're and they're behind."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3113.09,"endTime":3117.7400000000002,"body":"They're behind. And they're"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3113.09,"endTime":3117.7400000000002,"body":"India's failure to build wind"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3117.7400000000002,"endTime":3121.34,"body":"and solar fast enough. And the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3117.7400000000002,"endTime":3121.34,"body":"US is failure to do anything"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3121.34,"endTime":3125.78,"body":"about existing transportation"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3121.34,"endTime":3125.78,"body":"emissions. I identify those two"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3125.78,"endTime":3132.38,"body":"things now, as the problem"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3125.78,"endTime":3132.38,"body":"children, the problem twins have"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3132.4700000000003,"endTime":3136.55,"body":"of getting emissions to go down,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3132.4700000000003,"endTime":3136.55,"body":"solve those two things will get"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3136.55,"endTime":3139.3700000000003,"body":"emissions going down sooner,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3136.55,"endTime":3139.3700000000003,"body":"don't solve them. We're gonna"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3139.3700000000003,"endTime":3141.71,"body":"have to wait for emissions to go"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3139.3700000000003,"endTime":3141.71,"body":"down later."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3143.2400000000002,"endTime":3146.4800000000005,"body":"Well, in our last"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3143.2400000000002,"endTime":3146.4800000000005,"body":"few minutes together, do you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3146.4800000000005,"endTime":3150.0200000000004,"body":"have any opinions about the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3146.4800000000005,"endTime":3150.0200000000004,"body":"hydrogen economy? One of the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3150.0200000000004,"endTime":3155.0600000000004,"body":"things one of the means, or"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3150.0200000000004,"endTime":3155.0600000000004,"body":"themes that I see on my show is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3155.09,"endTime":3159.17,"body":"with guests like Jim Tyler from"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3155.09,"endTime":3159.17,"body":"Earth owes and Matt Campbell"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3159.17,"endTime":3162.92,"body":"from Terra bass energy, these"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3159.17,"endTime":3162.92,"body":"are executives who are focused"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3162.92,"endTime":3167.9300000000003,"body":"on bringing the cost of solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3162.92,"endTime":3167.9300000000003,"body":"energy down to two cents a kWh"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3167.96,"endTime":3172.2200000000003,"body":"or even below that, at which"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3167.96,"endTime":3172.2200000000003,"body":"point it becomes more economical"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3172.2500000000005,"endTime":3177.4700000000003,"body":"to produce green hydrogen using"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3172.2500000000005,"endTime":3177.4700000000003,"body":"solar electrons, right. And, and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3177.4700000000003,"endTime":3180.8,"body":"you take water and green"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3177.4700000000003,"endTime":3180.8,"body":"electrons and you get green"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3180.8,"endTime":3185.3,"body":"hydrogen, most of our hydrogen"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3180.8,"endTime":3185.3,"body":"today comes from the oil"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3185.3,"endTime":3191.21,"body":"industry by by taking, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3185.3,"endTime":3191.21,"body":"like, the methane molecule and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3191.21,"endTime":3194.0600000000004,"body":"breaking it up, right? Because"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3191.21,"endTime":3194.0600000000004,"body":"it's carbon and hydrogen, lots"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3194.0600000000004,"endTime":3197.8100000000004,"body":"of hydrogen there. But what are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3194.0600000000004,"endTime":3197.8100000000004,"body":"your thoughts about the green"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3197.84,"endTime":3199.07,"body":"hydrogen economy?"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3199.82,"endTime":3202.67,"body":"Okay, two"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3199.82,"endTime":3202.67,"body":"things. One, it is a big,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3202.76,"endTime":3208.46,"body":"sprawling subject, all the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3202.76,"endTime":3208.46,"body":"myriad ways that hydrogen might"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3208.46,"endTime":3212.96,"body":"be able to help us and all the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3208.46,"endTime":3212.96,"body":"myriad ways that it probably"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3213.0200000000004,"endTime":3217.88,"body":"won't help us. So that's a big,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3213.0200000000004,"endTime":3217.88,"body":"big subject. I went through a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3217.88,"endTime":3224.2700000000004,"body":"fairly intense learning curve on"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3217.88,"endTime":3224.2700000000004,"body":"hydrogen. In 2018, and 2019, and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3224.2700000000004,"endTime":3229.6400000000003,"body":"2020. I did a lot of work for"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3224.2700000000004,"endTime":3229.6400000000003,"body":"petroleum economist publication"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3229.6400000000003,"endTime":3235.7900000000004,"body":"in London. And I spent almost a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3229.6400000000003,"endTime":3235.7900000000004,"body":"whole year reporting on hydrogen"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3236.4800000000005,"endTime":3241.82,"body":"news, you know, news stories. I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3236.4800000000005,"endTime":3241.82,"body":"find that the best way to answer"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3241.82,"endTime":3245.9,"body":"a question like this, Tim, is to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3241.82,"endTime":3245.9,"body":"zoom forward and think about,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3246.5600000000004,"endTime":3249.8300000000004,"body":"what would things look like in"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3246.5600000000004,"endTime":3249.8300000000004,"body":"its optimal state, here's what"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3249.8300000000004,"endTime":3254.4500000000003,"body":"it would kind of look like to me"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3249.8300000000004,"endTime":3254.4500000000003,"body":"with hydrogen. Number one, the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3254.4500000000003,"endTime":3259.0400000000004,"body":"world starts building a lot of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3254.4500000000003,"endTime":3259.0400000000004,"body":"electrolyzers, which is a big,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3259.19,"endTime":3264.4700000000003,"body":"expensive piece of capital"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3259.19,"endTime":3264.4700000000003,"body":"equipment that you need to make"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3264.5000000000005,"endTime":3268.76,"body":"hydrogen using electricity"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3264.5000000000005,"endTime":3268.76,"body":"starts building a lot of those."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3268.8500000000004,"endTime":3272.36,"body":"And as a result, the price of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3268.8500000000004,"endTime":3272.36,"body":"that those electrolyzers goes"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3272.36,"endTime":3275.8700000000003,"body":"down. That's number one. That's"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3272.36,"endTime":3275.8700000000003,"body":"a really, really important"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3275.8700000000003,"endTime":3281.21,"body":"piece, too. Now that we've got"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3275.8700000000003,"endTime":3281.21,"body":"affordable electrolyzers, and we"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3281.21,"endTime":3285.71,"body":"can erect them and set them up,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3281.21,"endTime":3285.71,"body":"we need to set them up in demand"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3285.71,"endTime":3290.0600000000004,"body":"centers for the hydrogen that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3285.71,"endTime":3290.0600000000004,"body":"will be produced. What might"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3290.1200000000003,"endTime":3294.71,"body":"what might two examples be of"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3290.1200000000003,"endTime":3294.71,"body":"that one steelmaking? I've done"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3294.71,"endTime":3301.7000000000003,"body":"work. Sweden, and Norway are"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3294.71,"endTime":3301.7000000000003,"body":"already doing making green steel"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3302.09,"endTime":3306.65,"body":"for for Volvo cars not as a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3302.09,"endTime":3306.65,"body":"blanket thing but demonstration"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3306.65,"endTime":3310.4900000000002,"body":"and it's done in your displacing"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3306.65,"endTime":3310.4900000000002,"body":"coal. The second place where I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3310.4900000000002,"endTime":3315.65,"body":"see a demand center is in short"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3310.4900000000002,"endTime":3315.65,"body":"haul aviation. Not"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3315.9800000000005,"endTime":3320.96,"body":"transcontinental not LA, to"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3315.9800000000005,"endTime":3320.96,"body":"Boston, sure, but but Vancouver"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3320.96,"endTime":3325.19,"body":"to San Francisco, Seattle to Los"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3320.96,"endTime":3325.19,"body":"Angeles. You can make hydrogen"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3325.19,"endTime":3330.59,"body":"on site and feed those engines,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3325.19,"endTime":3330.59,"body":"you can either do battery packs,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3330.6200000000003,"endTime":3336.44,"body":"or you can actually do hydrogen"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3330.6200000000003,"endTime":3336.44,"body":"engines. What hydrogen needs is"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3336.44,"endTime":3342.0200000000004,"body":"it needs that sturdy starting"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3336.44,"endTime":3342.0200000000004,"body":"place. Affordable electrolyzer"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3342.2300000000005,"endTime":3345.2000000000003,"body":"demand for the hydrogen and"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3342.2300000000005,"endTime":3345.2000000000003,"body":"finding a way to make that"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3345.2000000000003,"endTime":3350.09,"body":"hydrogen as green as possible,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3345.2000000000003,"endTime":3350.09,"body":"plugging in almost exclusively"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3350.09,"endTime":3353.84,"body":"wind and solar, or mostly"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3350.09,"endTime":3353.84,"body":"exclusively wind and solar. Once"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3353.84,"endTime":3357.6200000000003,"body":"we get there, which I think is"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3353.84,"endTime":3357.6200000000003,"body":"the first place we're going. And"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3357.6200000000003,"endTime":3360.9800000000005,"body":"another example of demand center"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3357.6200000000003,"endTime":3360.9800000000005,"body":"would be petrochemicals like"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3360.9800000000005,"endTime":3366.11,"body":"Louisiana and Texas. Once we get"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3360.9800000000005,"endTime":3366.11,"body":"that going, I think we'll have a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3366.11,"endTime":3371.7200000000003,"body":"clearer vision on how the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3366.11,"endTime":3371.7200000000003,"body":"hydrogen applications can flower"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3371.7500000000005,"endTime":3376.13,"body":"upwards from there. But I have"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3371.7500000000005,"endTime":3376.13,"body":"identified what I've described"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3376.13,"endTime":3380.2700000000004,"body":"to you as the best most"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3376.13,"endTime":3380.2700000000004,"body":"realistic, most plausible"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3380.2700000000004,"endTime":3383.57,"body":"starting point. For hydrogen"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3380.2700000000004,"endTime":3383.57,"body":"production. Of course, we want"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3383.57,"endTime":3386.9300000000003,"body":"to make green hydrogen. We don't"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3383.57,"endTime":3386.9300000000003,"body":"want to use coal plants to make"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3386.9300000000003,"endTime":3389.09,"body":"the electricity to make the"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3386.9300000000003,"endTime":3389.09,"body":"hydrogen."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3389.7200000000003,"endTime":3391.4300000000003,"body":"Well, I think"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3389.7200000000003,"endTime":3391.4300000000003,"body":"that's a great place to stop."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3391.4300000000003,"endTime":3395.0000000000005,"body":"Unfortunately, I am out of time"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3391.4300000000003,"endTime":3395.0000000000005,"body":"and I want to remind our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3395.0000000000005,"endTime":3398.03,"body":"listeners to check out all of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3395.0000000000005,"endTime":3398.03,"body":"our content at clean power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3398.03,"endTime":3402.0200000000004,"body":"hour.com Please give us a rating"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3398.03,"endTime":3402.0200000000004,"body":"and a review on Apple and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3402.0200000000004,"endTime":3404.36,"body":"Spotify. by those of the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3402.0200000000004,"endTime":3404.36,"body":"platforms that matter most in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3404.36,"endTime":3407.0600000000004,"body":"this regard, and tell a friend"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3404.36,"endTime":3407.0600000000004,"body":"about the show, that is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3407.0600000000004,"endTime":3410.6600000000003,"body":"ultimately the best thing you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3407.0600000000004,"endTime":3410.6600000000003,"body":"can do is refer a friend to the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3410.6600000000003,"endTime":3414.5000000000005,"body":"Clean Power Hour, we're on audio"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3410.6600000000003,"endTime":3414.5000000000005,"body":"platforms and on YouTube, please"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3414.5000000000005,"endTime":3417.2300000000005,"body":"subscribe to our YouTube"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3414.5000000000005,"endTime":3417.2300000000005,"body":"channel. We're dropping two"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3417.2300000000005,"endTime":3421.6400000000003,"body":"videos a week, one pre recorded"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3417.2300000000005,"endTime":3421.6400000000003,"body":"interview or two sometimes now"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3421.6400000000003,"endTime":3423.92,"body":"that we have all this already"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3421.6400000000003,"endTime":3423.92,"body":"plus content we're working"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3423.92,"endTime":3428.63,"body":"through, and a live news roundup"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3423.92,"endTime":3428.63,"body":"with John Weaver, my co host and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3428.63,"endTime":3432.4100000000003,"body":"journalist for PV magazine."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3428.63,"endTime":3432.4100000000003,"body":"Gregor MacDonald, how can our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3432.4100000000003,"endTime":3433.5800000000004,"body":"listeners find you?"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3434.9900000000002,"endTime":3437.9,"body":"The best place"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3434.9900000000002,"endTime":3437.9,"body":"to find me is that the Gregor"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3437.9300000000003,"endTime":3443.0600000000004,"body":"letter that's on substack. I can"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3437.9300000000003,"endTime":3443.0600000000004,"body":"also be found on twitter,"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3443.42,"endTime":3446.7500000000005,"body":"although Twitter has its issues"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3443.42,"endTime":3446.7500000000005,"body":"these days, and it's not quite"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3446.7500000000005,"endTime":3451.61,"body":"as active as what it was. But I"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3446.7500000000005,"endTime":3451.61,"body":"am Gregor MacDonald. That's ma"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3451.61,"endTime":3456.4100000000003,"body":"c, d. O. N. ALD on Twitter. So"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3451.61,"endTime":3456.4100000000003,"body":"you just type in Gregor"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3456.4100000000003,"endTime":3458.78,"body":"MacDonald and Google and it all"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3456.4100000000003,"endTime":3458.78,"body":"comes up."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3459.1400000000003,"endTime":3462.32,"body":"And we will put"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3459.1400000000003,"endTime":3462.32,"body":"links to those sites in the show"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3462.32,"endTime":3465.5600000000004,"body":"notes. So I want to say thank"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3462.32,"endTime":3465.5600000000004,"body":"you, Gregor McDonald, for all"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3465.5600000000004,"endTime":3468.32,"body":"your work and for coming on the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3465.5600000000004,"endTime":3468.32,"body":"show. Really appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3468.92,"endTime":3471.2000000000003,"body":"Tim, you're a"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3468.92,"endTime":3471.2000000000003,"body":"great interviewer. And I really"},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3471.2000000000003,"endTime":3473.4800000000005,"body":"appreciate the conversation."},{"speaker":"Gregor Macdonald","startTime":3471.2000000000003,"endTime":3473.4800000000005,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3473.4700000000003,"endTime":3475.9900000000002,"body":"I'm Tim Montague,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3473.4700000000003,"endTime":3475.9900000000002,"body":"let's grow solar and storage."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3476.0800000000004,"endTime":3483.61,"body":"Take care. Hey, listeners, this"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3476.0800000000004,"endTime":3483.61,"body":"is Tim, I want to give a shout"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3483.61,"endTime":3488.6800000000003,"body":"out to all of you. I do this for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3483.61,"endTime":3488.6800000000003,"body":"you twice a week. Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3488.6800000000003,"endTime":3492.9100000000003,"body":"being here. Thank you for giving"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3488.6800000000003,"endTime":3492.9100000000003,"body":"us your time. I really"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3492.9100000000003,"endTime":3497.4100000000003,"body":"appreciate you and what you're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3492.9100000000003,"endTime":3497.4100000000003,"body":"all about. You are part and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3497.4100000000003,"endTime":3500.38,"body":"parcel of the energy transition,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3497.4100000000003,"endTime":3500.38,"body":"whether you're an energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3500.38,"endTime":3504.28,"body":"professional today, or an"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3500.38,"endTime":3504.28,"body":"aspiring energy professional. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3504.28,"endTime":3509.17,"body":"thank you, I want to let you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3504.28,"endTime":3509.17,"body":"know that the Clean Power Hour"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3509.17,"endTime":3514.8100000000004,"body":"has launched a listener survey."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3509.17,"endTime":3514.8100000000004,"body":"And it would mean so much to me."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3515.05,"endTime":3520.63,"body":"If you would go to clean power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3515.05,"endTime":3520.63,"body":"hour.com. Click on the About Us"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3520.7200000000003,"endTime":3524.3500000000004,"body":"link right there on the main"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3520.7200000000003,"endTime":3524.3500000000004,"body":"navigation that takes you to the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3524.3500000000004,"endTime":3528.2500000000005,"body":"about page. And you'll see a big"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3524.3500000000004,"endTime":3528.2500000000005,"body":"graphic listener survey, just"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3528.2500000000005,"endTime":3532.42,"body":"click on that graphic, and it"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3528.2500000000005,"endTime":3532.42,"body":"takes just a couple of minutes."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3532.96,"endTime":3536.6800000000003,"body":"If you fill out the survey, I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3532.96,"endTime":3536.6800000000003,"body":"will send you a lovely baseball"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3536.6800000000003,"endTime":3542.11,"body":"cap with our logo on it. The"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3536.6800000000003,"endTime":3542.11,"body":"other thing I want our listeners"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3542.11,"endTime":3549.34,"body":"to know is that this podcast is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3542.11,"endTime":3549.34,"body":"made possible by corporate"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3549.34,"endTime":3553.96,"body":"sponsors. We have chint power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3549.34,"endTime":3553.96,"body":"systems, the leading three phase"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3553.96,"endTime":3558.4300000000003,"body":"string inverter manufacturer in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3553.96,"endTime":3558.4300000000003,"body":"North America. So check out CBS"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3558.4300000000003,"endTime":3563.26,"body":"America. But we are very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3558.4300000000003,"endTime":3563.26,"body":"actively looking for additional"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3563.26,"endTime":3568.4800000000005,"body":"support to make this show work."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3563.26,"endTime":3568.4800000000005,"body":"And you see here our media kit."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3568.9300000000003,"endTime":3572.6200000000003,"body":"With all the sponsor benefits"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3568.9300000000003,"endTime":3572.6200000000003,"body":"and statistics about the show."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3572.6200000000003,"endTime":3576.1600000000003,"body":"You know we're dropping two"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3572.6200000000003,"endTime":3576.1600000000003,"body":"episodes a week. We have now"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3576.1600000000003,"endTime":3580.5400000000004,"body":"over 320,000 downloads on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3576.1600000000003,"endTime":3580.5400000000004,"body":"YouTube. And we're getting about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3580.5400000000004,"endTime":3585.5200000000004,"body":"45,000 downloads per month. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3580.5400000000004,"endTime":3585.5200000000004,"body":"this is a great way to bring"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3585.5200000000004,"endTime":3589.3900000000003,"body":"your brand to our listeners and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3585.5200000000004,"endTime":3589.3900000000003,"body":"our listeners are decision"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3589.3900000000003,"endTime":3593.2900000000004,"body":"makers in clean energy. This"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3589.3900000000003,"endTime":3593.2900000000004,"body":"includes projects executives,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3593.5600000000004,"endTime":3598.2400000000002,"body":"engineers, finance, project"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3593.5600000000004,"endTime":3598.2400000000002,"body":"management, and many other"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3598.2400000000002,"endTime":3603.5200000000004,"body":"professionals who are making"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3598.2400000000002,"endTime":3603.5200000000004,"body":"decisions about and developing,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3603.55,"endTime":3608.2900000000004,"body":"designing, installing and making"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3603.55,"endTime":3608.2900000000004,"body":"possible clean energy projects."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3608.2900000000004,"endTime":3613.42,"body":"So check out clean power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3608.2900000000004,"endTime":3613.42,"body":"hour.com both our listener"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3613.42,"endTime":3618.5800000000004,"body":"survey on the about us and our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3613.42,"endTime":3618.5800000000004,"body":"media kit and become a sponsor"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3618.5800000000004,"endTime":3622.7500000000005,"body":"today. Thank you so much. Let's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3618.5800000000004,"endTime":3622.7500000000005,"body":"go solar and storage"}]}