{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":50.78,"endTime":53.09,"body":"So this is where"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":50.78,"endTime":53.09,"body":"I think the regulator's are"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":53.09,"endTime":57.17,"body":"really letting us down. We're"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":53.09,"endTime":57.17,"body":"living. We're pretending like"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":57.17,"endTime":63.29,"body":"it's 1980. It's not 1980 We"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":57.17,"endTime":63.29,"body":"could hit 1.5 degrees C rise"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":63.32,"endTime":68.09,"body":"this year, probably next year"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":63.32,"endTime":68.09,"body":"for sure with El Nino. And so I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":68.09,"endTime":72.56,"body":"feel like our regulators are"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":68.09,"endTime":72.56,"body":"living in the past. We need to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":72.56,"endTime":77.09,"body":"live in reality. We need to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":72.56,"endTime":77.09,"body":"recognize the value that clean"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":77.09,"endTime":78.29,"body":"energy brings us."},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":78.71000000000001,"endTime":81.59,"body":"Are you speeding the"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":78.71000000000001,"endTime":81.59,"body":"energy transition? Here at the"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":81.59,"endTime":85.31,"body":"Clean Power Hour, our hosts Tim"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":81.59,"endTime":85.31,"body":"Montague and John Weaver bring"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":85.31,"endTime":88.97,"body":"you the best in solar batteries"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":85.31,"endTime":88.97,"body":"and clean technologies every"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":88.97,"endTime":92.96000000000001,"body":"week, want to go deeper into"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":88.97,"endTime":92.96000000000001,"body":"decarbonisation? We do too."},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":93.2,"endTime":95.6,"body":"We're here to help you"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":93.2,"endTime":95.6,"body":"understand and command the"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":95.6,"endTime":99.35,"body":"commercial, residential and"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":95.6,"endTime":99.35,"body":"utility, solar, wind and storage"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":99.35,"endTime":103.13,"body":"industries. So let's get to it."},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":99.35,"endTime":103.13,"body":"Together, we can speed the"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":103.13,"endTime":104.18,"body":"energy transition."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":106.52000000000001,"endTime":109.28,"body":"Today on the Clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":106.52000000000001,"endTime":109.28,"body":"Power Hour utilities taking"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":109.28,"endTime":112.91,"body":"risky bets on natural gas. I'm"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":109.28,"endTime":112.91,"body":"Tim Montague, your host Welcome"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":112.91,"endTime":115.94,"body":"to the Clean Power Hour. Check"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":112.91,"endTime":115.94,"body":"out all of our content at"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":115.94,"endTime":120.29,"body":"cleanpowerhour.com Give us a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":115.94,"endTime":120.29,"body":"rating and a review on Apple and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":120.29,"endTime":124.34,"body":"Spotify. That is how you can"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":120.29,"endTime":124.34,"body":"help the show. And please tell a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":124.34,"endTime":127.79,"body":"friend, that is another great"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":124.34,"endTime":127.79,"body":"way to to help the Clean Power"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":127.79,"endTime":130.55,"body":"Hour by spreading the word about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":127.79,"endTime":130.55,"body":"the show. There are many many,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":130.55,"endTime":134.0,"body":"many professionals who don't"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":130.55,"endTime":134.0,"body":"know this show exists. Check out"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":134.0,"endTime":136.22,"body":"our YouTube channel. Of course,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":134.0,"endTime":136.22,"body":"we're on all the audio"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":136.22,"endTime":139.13,"body":"platforms, but check out our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":136.22,"endTime":139.13,"body":"YouTube channel. Hit that bell,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":139.13,"endTime":142.25,"body":"subscribe to the show. And reach"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":139.13,"endTime":142.25,"body":"out to me on LinkedIn. I'd love"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":142.25,"endTime":145.67000000000002,"body":"to hear from my listeners. My"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":142.25,"endTime":145.67000000000002,"body":"guest today is Nancy le placa."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":145.7,"endTime":149.57,"body":"She is a regulatory policy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":145.7,"endTime":149.57,"body":"expert. Welcome to the show,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":149.57,"endTime":150.11,"body":"Nancy."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":150.92000000000002,"endTime":152.45,"body":"Thanks, Tim, for"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":150.92000000000002,"endTime":152.45,"body":"having me."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":153.44,"endTime":157.16,"body":"I'm excited to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":153.44,"endTime":157.16,"body":"bring this this nice topic to my"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":157.16,"endTime":160.37,"body":"listeners. You know, we we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":157.16,"endTime":160.37,"body":"energy professionals, we all"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":160.37,"endTime":165.76999999999998,"body":"live under the the rules and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":160.37,"endTime":165.76999999999998,"body":"regulations that pu C's are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":165.8,"endTime":171.76999999999998,"body":"enforcing and and sometimes."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":165.8,"endTime":171.76999999999998,"body":"Well, it's a combination, right?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":171.76999999999998,"endTime":176.0,"body":"It's combination of utilities"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":171.76999999999998,"endTime":176.0,"body":"and their rules and regulations."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":176.0,"endTime":180.47,"body":"And then how the PUC the public"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":176.0,"endTime":180.47,"body":"utility Commission's are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":180.47,"endTime":183.65,"body":"overseeing them and regulating"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":180.47,"endTime":183.65,"body":"them or not. But give our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":183.65,"endTime":186.41,"body":"listeners a little background on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":183.65,"endTime":186.41,"body":"yourself. How did you become"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":186.44,"endTime":188.39000000000001,"body":"interested in regulatory policy?"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":189.02,"endTime":193.55,"body":"Yeah, thanks,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":189.02,"endTime":193.55,"body":"Jim. My my path here was"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":193.67,"endTime":198.05,"body":"different than most people's,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":193.67,"endTime":198.05,"body":"I'd say markedly. I started out"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":198.08,"endTime":202.25,"body":"as an advocate fighting clean"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":198.08,"endTime":202.25,"body":"coal integrated gasification"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":202.25,"endTime":206.54,"body":"combined cycle to be precise,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":202.25,"endTime":206.54,"body":"with CCS, carbon capture and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":206.54,"endTime":209.6,"body":"sequestration. And as many"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":206.54,"endTime":209.6,"body":"people now know, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":209.6,"endTime":214.58,"body":"work. Clean Coal is an oxymoron."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":209.6,"endTime":214.58,"body":"It does. It never did work. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":214.58,"endTime":217.7,"body":"carbon capture and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":214.58,"endTime":217.7,"body":"sequestration, unfortunately, is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":217.7,"endTime":221.75,"body":"a row that we seem to be going"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":217.7,"endTime":221.75,"body":"down. But more people are aware"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":221.75,"endTime":226.76,"body":"that it doesn't really work."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":221.75,"endTime":226.76,"body":"It's just not a viable, too"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":226.76,"endTime":233.54,"body":"expensive. Risky, doesn't scale."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":226.76,"endTime":233.54,"body":"And so I started out fighting"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":233.57,"endTime":238.4,"body":"clean coal. I did that for a few"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":233.57,"endTime":238.4,"body":"years. And then I moved into"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":238.43,"endTime":244.19,"body":"natural gas as an advocate. As a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":238.43,"endTime":244.19,"body":"self funded public interest"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":244.19,"endTime":248.78,"body":"advocate at the Colorado Public"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":244.19,"endTime":248.78,"body":"Utilities Commission, and with"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":248.78,"endTime":252.8,"body":"my friend Leslie Gluster drum"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":248.78,"endTime":252.8,"body":"and Leslie took on coal. And I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":252.8,"endTime":259.19,"body":"took up took on fracked gas"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":252.8,"endTime":259.19,"body":"around 2007 2008. At that time,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":259.37,"endTime":262.61,"body":"fracking was just getting"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":259.37,"endTime":262.61,"body":"started. And Colorado was an"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":262.61,"endTime":268.76,"body":"early state. And so I learned a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":262.61,"endTime":268.76,"body":"lot about fracking, gas supply"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":269.03,"endTime":273.26,"body":"reserves. I had some excellent"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":269.03,"endTime":273.26,"body":"witnesses experts, guy named"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":273.26,"endTime":277.64,"body":"David Hughes, who's written many"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":273.26,"endTime":277.64,"body":"reports. He's kind of energy"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":277.64,"endTime":281.45,"body":"expert Richard Heinberg is right"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":277.64,"endTime":281.45,"body":"hand guy. He's written many"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":281.45,"endTime":286.43,"body":"reports called drill baby drill,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":281.45,"endTime":286.43,"body":"and he's still a someone out"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":286.43,"endTime":290.24,"body":"there. He's been retired for"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":286.43,"endTime":290.24,"body":"many years now. But he continues"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":290.24,"endTime":295.46000000000004,"body":"to crank out reports about how"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":290.24,"endTime":295.46000000000004,"body":"fracking wells are increasingly"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":295.46000000000004,"endTime":298.88,"body":"depleting the laterals are"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":295.46000000000004,"endTime":298.88,"body":"longer, they use more water,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":298.88,"endTime":303.11,"body":"more sand more chemicals. So I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":298.88,"endTime":303.11,"body":"learned a lot about natural gas"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":303.14,"endTime":310.01,"body":"early on. Then I ended up"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":303.14,"endTime":310.01,"body":"helping a guy named Paul Newman,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":310.22,"endTime":312.71000000000004,"body":"who was then a county"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":310.22,"endTime":312.71000000000004,"body":"commissioner in Cochise County,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":312.71000000000004,"endTime":316.46000000000004,"body":"Arizona, because they were going"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":312.71000000000004,"endTime":316.46000000000004,"body":"to find a clean coal plant build"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":316.46000000000004,"endTime":320.0,"body":"a clean coal plant in his"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":316.46000000000004,"endTime":320.0,"body":"district that was quickly"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":321.28999999999996,"endTime":326.41999999999996,"body":"abandoned because they didn't"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":321.28999999999996,"endTime":326.41999999999996,"body":"have the water and doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":326.9,"endTime":332.05999999999995,"body":"And so I ended up helping the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":326.9,"endTime":332.05999999999995,"body":"Democrats in Arizona in 2008."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":332.36,"endTime":337.07000000000005,"body":"With an election because Arizona"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":332.36,"endTime":337.07000000000005,"body":"is one of the elected states. In"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":337.07000000000005,"endTime":342.20000000000005,"body":"that election. We meaning clean"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":337.07000000000005,"endTime":342.20000000000005,"body":"energy advocates. We won two"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":342.20000000000005,"endTime":348.26,"body":"seats, and I went on to become"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":342.20000000000005,"endTime":348.26,"body":"the policy expert and advisor to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":348.26,"endTime":352.13,"body":"one of those commissioners whose"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":348.26,"endTime":352.13,"body":"name happens Paul Newman that is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":352.13,"endTime":357.04999999999995,"body":"his real name. And Paul Newman,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":352.13,"endTime":357.04999999999995,"body":"along with Democrats, Sandra"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":357.04999999999995,"endTime":362.63,"body":"Kennedy and current Arizona"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":357.04999999999995,"endTime":362.63,"body":"Attorney General Chris Mays,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":362.80999999999995,"endTime":366.47,"body":"who's quite a brilliant energy"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":362.80999999999995,"endTime":366.47,"body":"analyst, and is now the Attorney"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":366.47,"endTime":370.4,"body":"General of the State of Arizona."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":366.47,"endTime":370.4,"body":"We formed a clean energy"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":370.4,"endTime":373.42999999999995,"body":"majority. And in the two years"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":370.4,"endTime":373.42999999999995,"body":"that we had that majority,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":373.90999999999997,"endTime":378.44000000000005,"body":"Arizona passed one of the best"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":373.90999999999997,"endTime":378.44000000000005,"body":"energy efficiency laws in the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":378.44000000000005,"endTime":383.45000000000005,"body":"country. That was 2010. And then"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":378.44000000000005,"endTime":383.45000000000005,"body":"honestly, in the 2010, election,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":383.75,"endTime":389.39,"body":"the the anti clean energy forces"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":383.75,"endTime":389.39,"body":"dumped 10s of millions of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":389.39,"endTime":394.15999999999997,"body":"dollars, and basically took over"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":389.39,"endTime":394.15999999999997,"body":"the commission. And so the, the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":394.15999999999997,"endTime":397.88,"body":"trajectory that we were on"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":394.15999999999997,"endTime":397.88,"body":"pretty much ended, and it really"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":397.88,"endTime":403.03999999999996,"body":"hasn't been able to get traction"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":397.88,"endTime":403.03999999999996,"body":"since then. After working as"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":403.22,"endTime":407.6,"body":"Commissioner Newman's energy"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":403.22,"endTime":407.6,"body":"advisor for four years, then I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":407.6,"endTime":410.9,"body":"went to work. I have my own"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":407.6,"endTime":410.9,"body":"consulting business. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":410.9,"endTime":415.78999999999996,"body":"basically I've been helping"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":410.9,"endTime":415.78999999999996,"body":"advocates. solar industry, the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":415.78999999999996,"endTime":419.21000000000004,"body":"Illinois Solar Energy"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":415.78999999999996,"endTime":419.21000000000004,"body":"Association, I worked for doe"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":419.21000000000004,"endTime":423.91999999999996,"body":"for a while interconnection. So"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":419.21000000000004,"endTime":423.91999999999996,"body":"basically, Tim various issues"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":424.28,"endTime":430.25,"body":"around clean energy, but mostly"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":424.28,"endTime":430.25,"body":"working in the in the regulated"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":430.25,"endTime":434.27,"body":"states space, which as you"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":430.25,"endTime":434.27,"body":"mentioned, is where the public"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":434.27,"endTime":439.13,"body":"utilities Commission's have the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":434.27,"endTime":439.13,"body":"most power in deregulated"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":439.13,"endTime":443.57000000000005,"body":"states, public utilities"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":439.13,"endTime":443.57000000000005,"body":"Commission's still exist, but"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":443.57000000000005,"endTime":446.27,"body":"they have much bigger"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":443.57000000000005,"endTime":446.27,"body":"constraints around their"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":446.27,"endTime":446.96000000000004,"body":"authority."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":448.46000000000004,"endTime":450.55999999999995,"body":"Yeah, here in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":448.46000000000004,"endTime":450.55999999999995,"body":"Illinois, we're a deregulated"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":450.55999999999995,"endTime":455.24,"body":"state. Our PUC is called the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":450.55999999999995,"endTime":455.24,"body":"Illinois Commerce Commission,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":455.24,"endTime":459.20000000000005,"body":"the ICC I've had Karis Zalewski,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":455.24,"endTime":459.20000000000005,"body":"the former head of that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":459.20000000000005,"endTime":463.03999999999996,"body":"organization on the show, she"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":459.20000000000005,"endTime":463.03999999999996,"body":"now works for a clean energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":463.03999999999996,"endTime":469.07000000000005,"body":"developer. But and I, you, you,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":463.03999999999996,"endTime":469.07000000000005,"body":"you, you referenced clean coal."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":469.07000000000005,"endTime":474.14,"body":"So I want to point out to our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":469.07000000000005,"endTime":474.14,"body":"listeners that CCS carbon"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":474.14,"endTime":478.54999999999995,"body":"capture and storage is very much"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":474.14,"endTime":478.54999999999995,"body":"in the landscape of the federal"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":478.54999999999995,"endTime":482.69000000000005,"body":"government's incentives for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":478.54999999999995,"endTime":482.69000000000005,"body":"energy. In the US US check out"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":482.69000000000005,"endTime":487.64,"body":"Episode 128, where I present an"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":482.69000000000005,"endTime":487.64,"body":"article by Peter Montague my"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":487.64,"endTime":494.05999999999995,"body":"father about the 45 Q incentives"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":487.64,"endTime":494.05999999999995,"body":"in the IRA. The title of that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":494.05999999999995,"endTime":497.41999999999996,"body":"show is poison pill for the eye"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":494.05999999999995,"endTime":497.41999999999996,"body":"for the IRA old white men are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":497.41999999999996,"endTime":500.9,"body":"ruining the future for young"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":497.41999999999996,"endTime":500.9,"body":"people. Because what CCS does is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":500.9,"endTime":504.53,"body":"it incentivizes the fossil"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":500.9,"endTime":504.53,"body":"industries to burn baby burn,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":504.83000000000004,"endTime":509.78,"body":"and to quote unquote, capture"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":504.83000000000004,"endTime":509.78,"body":"carbon from smokestacks, put it"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":509.78,"endTime":513.65,"body":"into pipelines, we are building"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":509.78,"endTime":513.65,"body":"60,000 miles of pipelines in the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":513.65,"endTime":517.1,"body":"United States to carry"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":513.65,"endTime":517.1,"body":"compressed natural compressed"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":517.37,"endTime":523.1,"body":"co2, liquefied co2 in pipelines,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":517.37,"endTime":523.1,"body":"and buried in the ground in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":523.1,"endTime":527.36,"body":"places like my backyard, which"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":523.1,"endTime":527.36,"body":"is central Illinois. I'm also in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":527.36,"endTime":531.59,"body":"a cold state, Illinois, has"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":527.36,"endTime":531.59,"body":"massive coal reserves, mostly in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":531.59,"endTime":535.13,"body":"the central and southern parts"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":531.59,"endTime":535.13,"body":"of the state. But we have mind"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":535.13,"endTime":538.85,"body":"mouth coal burning power plants"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":535.13,"endTime":538.85,"body":"in the state of Illinois that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":538.85,"endTime":542.87,"body":"hold huge swaths of the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":538.85,"endTime":542.87,"body":"population captive actually"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":543.08,"endTime":547.34,"body":"paying higher than market rates,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":543.08,"endTime":547.34,"body":"because these are, these are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":547.34,"endTime":551.33,"body":"plants that are fueling co ops"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":547.34,"endTime":551.33,"body":"and munis, which is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":551.45,"endTime":555.56,"body":"30% of the state's population,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":551.45,"endTime":555.56,"body":"but probably 70% of the state's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":555.56,"endTime":558.62,"body":"real estate, so to speak. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":555.56,"endTime":558.62,"body":"anyway. And I mean, one of the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":558.65,"endTime":563.12,"body":"one of the emergent properties"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":558.65,"endTime":563.12,"body":"of that is that businesses in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":614.81,"endTime":619.6099999999999,"body":"communities like Naperville,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":614.81,"endTime":619.6099999999999,"body":"Illinois, want to leave"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":619.6099999999999,"endTime":622.3699999999999,"body":"Naperville because they're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":619.6099999999999,"endTime":622.3699999999999,"body":"paying too much for power. So if"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":622.3699999999999,"endTime":624.95,"body":"you're a manufacturer, and you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":622.3699999999999,"endTime":624.95,"body":"have a high energy bill, you're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":624.95,"endTime":627.6499999999999,"body":"going wait a minute, my"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":624.95,"endTime":627.6499999999999,"body":"neighbors in Chicago are paying"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":627.8,"endTime":633.71,"body":"three and a half cents, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":627.8,"endTime":633.71,"body":"paying 14 WTF. So, so anyway,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":633.8599999999999,"endTime":638.24,"body":"but Nancy, you've got some"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":633.8599999999999,"endTime":638.24,"body":"interesting, you know, current"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":638.51,"endTime":642.3199999999999,"body":"stories and experiences. I would"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":638.51,"endTime":642.3199999999999,"body":"love to hear about your work"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":642.3499999999999,"endTime":645.47,"body":"with icea, the Illinois Solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":642.3499999999999,"endTime":645.47,"body":"Energy Association, that's my"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":645.47,"endTime":649.6700000000001,"body":"home state. I work nationally,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":645.47,"endTime":649.6700000000001,"body":"but I'm very involved in the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":649.6700000000001,"endTime":652.8499999999999,"body":"solar industry here in Illinois,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":649.6700000000001,"endTime":652.8499999999999,"body":"and then also in your home"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":652.8499999999999,"endTime":656.4200000000001,"body":"state. What is it? Is it North"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":652.8499999999999,"endTime":656.4200000000001,"body":"Carolina or South Carolina? I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":656.4200000000001,"endTime":658.4300000000001,"body":"think it's North Carolina,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":656.4200000000001,"endTime":658.4300000000001,"body":"right? You're you're dealing"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":658.4300000000001,"endTime":661.9100000000001,"body":"with a co op or a Muni utility,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":658.4300000000001,"endTime":661.9100000000001,"body":"which has been quite interesting"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":661.9100000000001,"endTime":663.74,"body":"as well. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":663.74,"endTime":665.72,"body":"And Peter, I want"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":663.74,"endTime":665.72,"body":"to mention that when you told me"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":665.72,"endTime":670.52,"body":"you were Peter, Montague, son, I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":665.72,"endTime":670.52,"body":"remember so clearly reading your"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":670.52,"endTime":676.25,"body":"father's analysis of CCS and 45."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":670.52,"endTime":676.25,"body":"Q. Yeah, back when it was kind"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":676.25,"endTime":679.22,"body":"of like, you know, the green"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":676.25,"endTime":679.22,"body":"screen air, you know, back when,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":679.25,"endTime":684.29,"body":"you know, before, what was years"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":679.25,"endTime":684.29,"body":"ago, and, and your father was"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":684.29,"endTime":689.51,"body":"just a hero, you know, he he,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":684.29,"endTime":689.51,"body":"he, he outlined it, so Well, I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":689.51,"endTime":691.1600000000001,"body":"just remember that so well,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":689.51,"endTime":691.1600000000001,"body":"while"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":691.1600000000001,"endTime":694.94,"body":"he still is he"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":691.1600000000001,"endTime":694.94,"body":"still he's still writing, he's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":694.94,"endTime":698.69,"body":"just blogging these days, he he"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":694.94,"endTime":698.69,"body":"no longer writes Rachel's news,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":699.44,"endTime":702.5899999999999,"body":"which is what he's best known"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":699.44,"endTime":702.5899999999999,"body":"for Rachel's Democracy Now. Help"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":702.5899999999999,"endTime":707.45,"body":"news as it was known, but But"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":702.5899999999999,"endTime":707.45,"body":"anyway, thank you. I appreciate"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":707.45,"endTime":714.1399999999999,"body":"that. And yes, he is a an"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":707.45,"endTime":714.1399999999999,"body":"incredible person and I stand on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":714.1399999999999,"endTime":716.8999999999999,"body":"those shoulders, so to speak. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":714.1399999999999,"endTime":716.8999999999999,"body":"that's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":716.8999999999999,"endTime":720.95,"body":"great. And I grew"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":716.8999999999999,"endTime":720.95,"body":"up in Illinois. Yes, I did. I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":720.95,"endTime":725.8999999999999,"body":"grew up in River Forest. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":720.95,"endTime":725.8999999999999,"body":"my family moved west, to around"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":725.8999999999999,"endTime":729.23,"body":"Downers Grove, Oak Brook area,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":725.8999999999999,"endTime":729.23,"body":"and a lot of my family still"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":729.23,"endTime":732.1399999999999,"body":"lives there. Yeah. I want to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":729.23,"endTime":732.1399999999999,"body":"mention something about the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":732.1700000000001,"endTime":734.8699999999999,"body":"Illinois bill, which as you"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":732.1700000000001,"endTime":734.8699999999999,"body":"know, is really good the climate"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":734.8699999999999,"endTime":740.78,"body":"and equitable JOBS Act Seija."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":734.8699999999999,"endTime":740.78,"body":"Yep, 960 pages long. And really"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":740.78,"endTime":745.01,"body":"what what thrilled me about that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":740.78,"endTime":745.01,"body":"law was, it was like a page and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":745.01,"endTime":748.6099999999999,"body":"a half on retail net metering."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":745.01,"endTime":748.6099999999999,"body":"And if I was going to help"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":748.6099999999999,"endTime":752.3,"body":"someone write a paragraph about"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":748.6099999999999,"endTime":752.3,"body":"how we need retail net metering,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":752.3,"endTime":756.53,"body":"and let's not mess it up by"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":752.3,"endTime":756.53,"body":"allowing utilities to reduce the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":756.53,"endTime":762.5,"body":"rate or ad fees. Go right to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":756.53,"endTime":762.5,"body":"that section of CGI. Interesting"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":762.5,"endTime":766.22,"body":"story about CGI Peter that I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":762.5,"endTime":766.22,"body":"think people need to know, Tim,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":766.22,"endTime":768.47,"body":"you're calling me,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":766.22,"endTime":768.47,"body":"Peter. Oh, I'm"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":768.47,"endTime":770.1800000000001,"body":"sorry. It's okay."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":770.1800000000001,"endTime":771.1399999999999,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":770.1800000000001,"endTime":771.1399999999999,"body":"understandable."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":772.3399999999999,"endTime":775.1600000000001,"body":"Anyway, that when"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":772.3399999999999,"endTime":775.1600000000001,"body":"you look at when that bill was"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":775.1600000000001,"endTime":779.24,"body":"passed, which was September"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":775.1600000000001,"endTime":779.24,"body":"2021, I remember it well, that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":779.24,"endTime":782.75,"body":"the utilities were not allowed"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":779.24,"endTime":782.75,"body":"at the negotiating table. Why?"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":783.05,"endTime":786.02,"body":"Because they were being"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":783.05,"endTime":786.02,"body":"investigated for massive fraud."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":786.4100000000001,"endTime":790.79,"body":"And that fraud was so big. It"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":786.4100000000001,"endTime":790.79,"body":"brought down the Ohio Speaker of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":790.79,"endTime":794.3299999999999,"body":"the House, Larry householder,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":790.79,"endTime":794.3299999999999,"body":"and it more or less brought down"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":794.3299999999999,"endTime":797.3599999999999,"body":"Michael Madigan, who was the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":794.3299999999999,"endTime":797.3599999999999,"body":"Illinois speaker, the house"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":797.3599999999999,"endTime":801.8899999999999,"body":"certainly did politics for 47"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":797.3599999999999,"endTime":801.8899999999999,"body":"years, whose daughter Lisa was"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":801.8899999999999,"endTime":805.25,"body":"the Attorney General of the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":801.8899999999999,"endTime":805.25,"body":"State. And the reason why that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":805.25,"endTime":809.51,"body":"bill was so good was because the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":805.25,"endTime":809.51,"body":"utilities for forbidden from"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":809.51,"endTime":813.3199999999999,"body":"being at the table to go cheat"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":809.51,"endTime":813.3199999999999,"body":"that bill. Now one of the things"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":813.3199999999999,"endTime":818.1499999999999,"body":"I love to show my students is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":813.3199999999999,"endTime":818.1499999999999,"body":"when you look at Illinois, if"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":818.1499999999999,"endTime":822.9200000000001,"body":"you look at Illinois, so look,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":818.1499999999999,"endTime":822.9200000000001,"body":"they went from zero to 60 miles"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":822.9200000000001,"endTime":826.6399999999999,"body":"an hour, boom, after after"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":822.9200000000001,"endTime":826.6399999999999,"body":"passing that bill."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":827.0899999999999,"endTime":829.46,"body":"Well, after fija,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":827.0899999999999,"endTime":829.46,"body":"for we got it first, first we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":829.46,"endTime":832.46,"body":"got the future energy jobs act,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":829.46,"endTime":832.46,"body":"right. I was the real"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":832.46,"endTime":837.8,"body":"accelerant. We'd had an RPS. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":832.46,"endTime":837.8,"body":"so wait. And the goal was 25%."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":837.8,"endTime":842.1499999999999,"body":"By 2025, we were we were not"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":837.8,"endTime":842.1499999999999,"body":"going to achieve that. Right."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":842.1800000000001,"endTime":846.23,"body":"The RPS was quote unquote,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":842.1800000000001,"endTime":846.23,"body":"broken, because we were not on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":846.23,"endTime":850.76,"body":"pace. And then and then fija was"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":846.23,"endTime":850.76,"body":"an accelerant. We were still not"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":850.76,"endTime":854.54,"body":"on pace, though, with fija. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":850.76,"endTime":854.54,"body":"the amount of funding going into"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":854.54,"endTime":858.77,"body":"the program was too little. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":854.54,"endTime":858.77,"body":"the funding in Illinois for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":858.77,"endTime":861.56,"body":"solar and this is great if"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":858.77,"endTime":861.56,"body":"you're working in another state"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":861.56,"endTime":864.8599999999999,"body":"to learn from this. It"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":861.56,"endTime":864.8599999999999,"body":"frustrates me, Nancy, that we're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":864.8599999999999,"endTime":869.3299999999999,"body":"reinventing the wheel 50 times"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":864.8599999999999,"endTime":869.3299999999999,"body":"over in all 50 states, when"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":869.3299999999999,"endTime":874.01,"body":"there are some very good places"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":869.3299999999999,"endTime":874.01,"body":"that have set the foundation for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":874.01,"endTime":876.5899999999999,"body":"how to do things. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":874.01,"endTime":876.5899999999999,"body":"curious what you think about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":876.5899999999999,"endTime":882.3499999999999,"body":"that I have my short list but"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":876.5899999999999,"endTime":882.3499999999999,"body":"but in Illinois, we fund clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":882.3499999999999,"endTime":886.3999999999999,"body":"energy incentives and zero"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":882.3499999999999,"endTime":886.3999999999999,"body":"energy credits, which is the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":886.3999999999999,"endTime":893.48,"body":"nuclear equivalent with a small"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":886.3999999999999,"endTime":893.48,"body":"fee on consumer power bills or"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":893.48,"endTime":899.5999999999999,"body":"ratepayer power bills, right in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":893.48,"endTime":899.5999999999999,"body":"the the IOU utility. So in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":899.5999999999999,"endTime":903.6800000000001,"body":"Northern Illinois, that's comed,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":899.5999999999999,"endTime":903.6800000000001,"body":"and central and southern, it's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":903.8,"endTime":906.98,"body":"Amarin. There's also an"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":903.8,"endTime":906.98,"body":"American, which has a carve out"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":906.98,"endTime":909.6499999999999,"body":"in the western part of the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":906.98,"endTime":909.6499999999999,"body":"state, West Central, a small"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":909.6499999999999,"endTime":912.77,"body":"part of the Quad Cities area,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":909.6499999999999,"endTime":912.77,"body":"but for the most part, it's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":912.77,"endTime":916.3399999999999,"body":"hammered in combat, then"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":912.77,"endTime":916.3399999999999,"body":"there's, there's the Munis and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":916.3399999999999,"endTime":921.6800000000001,"body":"co ops which don't really play."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":916.3399999999999,"endTime":921.6800000000001,"body":"And that's, that's a much"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":921.6800000000001,"endTime":926.54,"body":"longer, more complicated story."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":921.6800000000001,"endTime":926.54,"body":"But, but that fee, if it's too"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":926.54,"endTime":928.97,"body":"small, there's not going to be"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":926.54,"endTime":928.97,"body":"enough money in the program. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":928.97,"endTime":932.3599999999999,"body":"that was the case with fija. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":928.97,"endTime":932.3599999999999,"body":"it was a boom and a bust. Right?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":932.3599999999999,"endTime":936.9200000000001,"body":"We got like two, two years of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":932.3599999999999,"endTime":936.9200000000001,"body":"let's go. And we're doing large"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":936.9200000000001,"endTime":942.71,"body":"CNI, lots of residential, solar."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":936.9200000000001,"endTime":942.71,"body":"And end and utility solar took"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":942.71,"endTime":947.1499999999999,"body":"off because of that program."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":942.71,"endTime":947.1499999999999,"body":"Now, after that bust, we got"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":947.1499999999999,"endTime":952.55,"body":"Seija the climate inequitable"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":947.1499999999999,"endTime":952.55,"body":"JOBS Act, which is a fix and a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":952.8199999999999,"endTime":958.9100000000001,"body":"and a complete kind of revamping"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":952.8199999999999,"endTime":958.9100000000001,"body":"of the RPS right and now we're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":958.9100000000001,"endTime":966.5899999999999,"body":"on we're well, we're our RPS I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":958.9100000000001,"endTime":966.5899999999999,"body":"think is 100% by 2040, or 2045."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":966.5899999999999,"endTime":971.8399999999999,"body":"Maybe think 2040. But so it's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":966.5899999999999,"endTime":971.8399999999999,"body":"one of the better RPS is now"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":971.8999999999999,"endTime":976.28,"body":"across the country. But there's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":971.8999999999999,"endTime":976.28,"body":"many places now that have 100%"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":976.31,"endTime":980.8699999999999,"body":"RPS is I'm sure you can rattle"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":976.31,"endTime":980.8699999999999,"body":"off all the states, but there's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":980.8699999999999,"endTime":985.4300000000001,"body":"over 100 cities and states that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":980.8699999999999,"endTime":985.4300000000001,"body":"have 100% goals now by I think"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":985.46,"endTime":988.01,"body":"2040 or 2050. So"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":988.46,"endTime":992.21,"body":"I'm sorry, go"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":988.46,"endTime":992.21,"body":"ahead. Yeah, so Tim, that brings"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":992.21,"endTime":996.1099999999999,"body":"up an interesting issue. If"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":992.21,"endTime":996.1099999999999,"body":"there's no path to get there,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":996.6199999999999,"endTime":1000.94,"body":"then it's really difficult to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":996.6199999999999,"endTime":1000.94,"body":"get there. So I want to bring up"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1000.97,"endTime":1005.8299999999999,"body":"a couple of things. One is I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1000.97,"endTime":1005.8299999999999,"body":"remember right Seija had about"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1005.8299999999999,"endTime":1010.27,"body":"600 million a year for clean"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1005.8299999999999,"endTime":1010.27,"body":"energy was like five 600 million"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1010.27,"endTime":1013.48,"body":"a year, something like that."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1010.27,"endTime":1013.48,"body":"Well, that's a lot of money. Of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1013.48,"endTime":1016.3599999999999,"body":"course, it sounds like a lot of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1013.48,"endTime":1016.3599999999999,"body":"money. And it is. But it's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1016.3599999999999,"endTime":1022.75,"body":"dwarfed by fuel costs absolutely"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1016.3599999999999,"endTime":1022.75,"body":"dwarfed. So so let me let me"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1022.78,"endTime":1027.3999999999999,"body":"launch into another aspect then"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1022.78,"endTime":1027.3999999999999,"body":"that you brought up a Muni. So"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1027.3999999999999,"endTime":1031.06,"body":"my utility is very unusual in"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1027.3999999999999,"endTime":1031.06,"body":"that it's owned by the local"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1031.06,"endTime":1034.78,"body":"university. And the reason why"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1031.06,"endTime":1034.78,"body":"it's owned by the university,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1034.81,"endTime":1037.57,"body":"it's actually a State"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1034.81,"endTime":1037.57,"body":"University, is because the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1037.57,"endTime":1041.56,"body":"university predated the utility."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1037.57,"endTime":1041.56,"body":"So it's technically a state"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1041.56,"endTime":1047.17,"body":"owned utility. So my utility, I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1041.56,"endTime":1047.17,"body":"was the first customer and 108"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1047.62,"endTime":1053.02,"body":"years to intervene 108 years,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1047.62,"endTime":1053.02,"body":"which to me, tells you something"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1053.02,"endTime":1056.59,"body":"about the process that the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1053.02,"endTime":1056.59,"body":"process is broken. The process."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1056.74,"endTime":1059.29,"body":"My friend, Leslie, colostrum"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1056.74,"endTime":1059.29,"body":"used to say let's put the public"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1059.29,"endTime":1062.74,"body":"back into the public utilities"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1059.29,"endTime":1062.74,"body":"commission, just like the UC"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1062.74,"endTime":1066.43,"body":"utilities call themselves, um,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1062.74,"endTime":1066.43,"body":"you know, Arizona Public Service"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1066.43,"endTime":1070.27,"body":"Company, Colorado public service"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1066.43,"endTime":1070.27,"body":"company, no, no, these are"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1070.27,"endTime":1074.6499999999999,"body":"private companies. They have"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1070.27,"endTime":1074.6499999999999,"body":"taken the world public, and just"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1074.6499999999999,"endTime":1079.63,"body":"used it. So again, my utility is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1074.6499999999999,"endTime":1079.63,"body":"a poster child for something"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1079.63,"endTime":1083.3500000000001,"body":"that's happening in other"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1079.63,"endTime":1083.3500000000001,"body":"utilities, larger utilities. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1083.3500000000001,"endTime":1088.03,"body":"that is that the cost of natural"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1083.3500000000001,"endTime":1088.03,"body":"gas is going up. So my utility,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1088.8700000000001,"endTime":1092.14,"body":"which had the worst, which has"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1088.8700000000001,"endTime":1092.14,"body":"the worst solar rules in the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1092.14,"endTime":1096.01,"body":"United States, despite the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1092.14,"endTime":1096.01,"body":"university, claiming that has"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1096.01,"endTime":1099.64,"body":"been defining sustainability"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1096.01,"endTime":1099.64,"body":"since 1899, when the university"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1099.64,"endTime":1104.6200000000001,"body":"was founded. And those rules"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1099.64,"endTime":1104.6200000000001,"body":"called biocell, have resulted in"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1104.65,"endTime":1110.38,"body":"15 solar systems in 15 years."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1104.65,"endTime":1110.38,"body":"Now, it was almost fun going to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1110.38,"endTime":1113.5,"body":"the Public Utilities Commission"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1110.38,"endTime":1113.5,"body":"in North Carolina, and watching"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1113.5,"endTime":1116.92,"body":"the faces of the commissioners"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1113.5,"endTime":1116.92,"body":"as they realize that the town of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1116.92,"endTime":1119.65,"body":"Boone, which is known for being"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1116.92,"endTime":1119.65,"body":"progressive in the state of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1119.65,"endTime":1125.2,"body":"North Carolina, had installed"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1119.65,"endTime":1125.2,"body":"only 15 solar systems in 15"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1125.23,"endTime":1131.08,"body":"years. And yet, the cost of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1125.23,"endTime":1131.08,"body":"natural gas went up so much for"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1131.08,"endTime":1137.26,"body":"this small utility, that they"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1131.08,"endTime":1137.26,"body":"had to borrow 43% of their"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1137.26,"endTime":1143.32,"body":"expected retail sales, just to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1137.26,"endTime":1143.32,"body":"cover the increase in gas costs."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1143.56,"endTime":1147.31,"body":"So let me repeat that and unpack"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1143.56,"endTime":1147.31,"body":"it because it's, it's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1147.31,"endTime":1152.23,"body":"numbers in this stuff. So my"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1147.31,"endTime":1152.23,"body":"utility sells about $16 million"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1152.68,"endTime":1156.64,"body":"worth of electricity a year 16"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1152.68,"endTime":1156.64,"body":"million. Well, the cost of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1156.64,"endTime":1160.48,"body":"natural gas went up so much,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1156.64,"endTime":1160.48,"body":"they had to borrow $7 million."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1161.65,"endTime":1165.49,"body":"That's in addition to the money"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1161.65,"endTime":1165.49,"body":"that they had already planned to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1165.49,"endTime":1172.18,"body":"spend for natural gas fuel,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1165.49,"endTime":1172.18,"body":"their 85% natural gas. If you"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1172.18,"endTime":1174.91,"body":"look at Duke Energy, I just"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1172.18,"endTime":1174.91,"body":"reviewed one of the fuel"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1174.91,"endTime":1179.53,"body":"dockets, Duke Energy, one of the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1174.91,"endTime":1179.53,"body":"subsidiaries in North Carolina"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1179.53,"endTime":1183.31,"body":"called Dec. Duke Energy"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1179.53,"endTime":1183.31,"body":"Carolinas, had to borrow a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1183.31,"endTime":1187.63,"body":"billion dollars a billion"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1183.31,"endTime":1187.63,"body":"because their natural gas costs"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1187.63,"endTime":1191.53,"body":"went up so much. Now what I see"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1187.63,"endTime":1191.53,"body":"from the regulators who are, you"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1191.53,"endTime":1195.04,"body":"know, perfectly nice, smart"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1191.53,"endTime":1195.04,"body":"people. And I would say, and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1195.04,"endTime":1199.09,"body":"I've seen studies that say this,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1195.04,"endTime":1199.09,"body":"that the regulators are more"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1199.09,"endTime":1201.7,"body":"knowledgeable than they used to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1199.09,"endTime":1201.7,"body":"be. It used to be kind of a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1202.1200000000001,"endTime":1207.67,"body":"graveyard for former legislators"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1202.1200000000001,"endTime":1207.67,"body":"who wanted to make more money or"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1207.67,"endTime":1210.16,"body":"just keep working in government"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1207.67,"endTime":1210.16,"body":"because it pays more than a lot"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1210.16,"endTime":1215.29,"body":"of state legislative chairs. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1210.16,"endTime":1215.29,"body":"so these guys are smart, but"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1215.29,"endTime":1219.3700000000001,"body":"here they are. They let Duke"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1215.29,"endTime":1219.3700000000001,"body":"Energy get away with this a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1219.3700000000001,"endTime":1224.05,"body":"billion dollars in extra fuel"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1219.3700000000001,"endTime":1224.05,"body":"costs a billion. So we are"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1224.05,"endTime":1228.52,"body":"allowing these utilities to take"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1224.05,"endTime":1228.52,"body":"an unbelievable risk that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1228.52,"endTime":1233.56,"body":"natural gas costs are going to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1228.52,"endTime":1233.56,"body":"go down. And let me point let me"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1233.56,"endTime":1236.65,"body":"point this out in the state of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1233.56,"endTime":1236.65,"body":"Arizona, which I know well, I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1236.65,"endTime":1240.7,"body":"lived there. 27 years, I worked"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1236.65,"endTime":1240.7,"body":"for two members of Congress, the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1240.7,"endTime":1243.94,"body":"Arizona Supreme Court, the Court"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1240.7,"endTime":1243.94,"body":"of Appeals, a bunch of state"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1243.94,"endTime":1249.67,"body":"agencies, and was a policy"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1243.94,"endTime":1249.67,"body":"adviser. You have a state that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1249.67,"endTime":1254.8,"body":"has about 25% less solar than"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1249.67,"endTime":1254.8,"body":"North Carolina. And yet it's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1254.83,"endTime":1259.1200000000001,"body":"much much much sunnier. They're"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1254.83,"endTime":1259.1200000000001,"body":"literally running out of water,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1259.15,"endTime":1262.15,"body":"the Colorado River at the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1259.15,"endTime":1262.15,"body":"current rates. There's a there's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1262.15,"endTime":1264.73,"body":"a National Geographic article"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1262.15,"endTime":1264.73,"body":"this month on the Colorado"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1264.73,"endTime":1268.09,"body":"River. And what they say in that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1264.73,"endTime":1268.09,"body":"article is that the current rate"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1268.09,"endTime":1272.59,"body":"of decline, the Colorado River"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1268.09,"endTime":1272.59,"body":"will no longer be sending water"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1273.64,"endTime":1277.66,"body":"within six years, six years,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1273.64,"endTime":1277.66,"body":"three to six years. Now here's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1277.66,"endTime":1281.3500000000001,"body":"what's scary about that. Tucson"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1277.66,"endTime":1281.3500000000001,"body":"a city of at least a million"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1281.3500000000001,"endTime":1286.21,"body":"people 100% dependent on the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1281.3500000000001,"endTime":1286.21,"body":"Colorado River, Las Vegas,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1286.39,"endTime":1290.53,"body":"couple million people 90%"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1286.39,"endTime":1290.53,"body":"dependent on the Colorado River,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1290.92,"endTime":1295.18,"body":"State of Arizona as a whole 50%"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1290.92,"endTime":1295.18,"body":"dependent on the Colorado River."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1295.42,"endTime":1298.81,"body":"I mean we are looking at a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1295.42,"endTime":1298.81,"body":"disaster. And what did the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1298.81,"endTime":1303.34,"body":"Arizona regulators do? Just last"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1298.81,"endTime":1303.34,"body":"week, they further devalued"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1303.34,"endTime":1307.99,"body":"solar. So you have a state like"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1303.34,"endTime":1307.99,"body":"Arizona, which imports all of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1307.99,"endTime":1313.69,"body":"its natural gas has to buy, has"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1307.99,"endTime":1313.69,"body":"to build pipelines to import"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1313.69,"endTime":1318.3700000000001,"body":"that natural gas and has to pay"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1313.69,"endTime":1318.3700000000001,"body":"for that natural gas, whatever"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1318.3700000000001,"endTime":1323.47,"body":"costs. And yet, the regulators"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1318.3700000000001,"endTime":1323.47,"body":"are doubling down on natural gas"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1323.47,"endTime":1327.04,"body":"and killing solar. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1323.47,"endTime":1327.04,"body":"unfortunately, that's what we"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1327.04,"endTime":1330.16,"body":"see over and over and over. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1327.04,"endTime":1330.16,"body":"so you have a state like"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1330.16,"endTime":1334.63,"body":"Illinois, which is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1330.16,"endTime":1334.63,"body":"relative to Arizona is much less"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1334.63,"endTime":1339.6100000000001,"body":"Sunny, and yet Illinois, is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1334.63,"endTime":1339.6100000000001,"body":"going to crush Arizona on solar,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1339.64,"endTime":1340.9,"body":"it will crush them."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1341.65,"endTime":1344.1100000000001,"body":"The I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1341.65,"endTime":1344.1100000000001,"body":"because there's a lot of utility"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1344.1100000000001,"endTime":1346.81,"body":"solar happening in Arizona."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1344.1100000000001,"endTime":1346.81,"body":"Well, and that's the other."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1347.2,"endTime":1350.5,"body":"That's the other thing here,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1347.2,"endTime":1350.5,"body":"Nancy, that really irks us clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1350.5,"endTime":1354.7,"body":"energy professionals is you can"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1350.5,"endTime":1354.7,"body":"have really bad legislation in a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1354.7,"endTime":1358.45,"body":"state, let's say Florida or"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1354.7,"endTime":1358.45,"body":"Texas, these are states that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1358.45,"endTime":1362.1100000000001,"body":"don't really have RPS is but"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1358.45,"endTime":1362.1100000000001,"body":"they have lots of solar, they"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1362.1100000000001,"endTime":1364.6000000000001,"body":"just don't have DG solar, they"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1362.1100000000001,"endTime":1364.6000000000001,"body":"don't have distributed"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1364.6000000000001,"endTime":1368.56,"body":"generation, they don't have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1364.6000000000001,"endTime":1368.56,"body":"strong residential and CNI"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1368.59,"endTime":1372.64,"body":"incentives. The utilities are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1368.59,"endTime":1372.64,"body":"going oh, well, solar, wind and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1372.64,"endTime":1375.07,"body":"storage are the cheapest sources"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1372.64,"endTime":1375.07,"body":"of energy we're going to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1375.07,"endTime":1380.53,"body":"install. Gigawatts and gigawatts"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1375.07,"endTime":1380.53,"body":"of utility solar like Florida"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1380.53,"endTime":1383.8600000000001,"body":"Power and Light is doing in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1380.53,"endTime":1383.8600000000001,"body":"Florida. And like next era is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1383.8600000000001,"endTime":1387.22,"body":"doing all over the country. Very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1383.8600000000001,"endTime":1387.22,"body":"large scale, and I have nothing"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1387.22,"endTime":1389.89,"body":"against large scale solar. I'm a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1387.22,"endTime":1389.89,"body":"huge advocate, actually, for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1389.89,"endTime":1393.43,"body":"large scale solar. It's a both"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1389.89,"endTime":1393.43,"body":"and though, we need to also take"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1393.43,"endTime":1396.25,"body":"advantage of the fact that we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1393.43,"endTime":1396.25,"body":"have this built environment and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1396.25,"endTime":1402.25,"body":"brownfields where we can put the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1396.25,"endTime":1402.25,"body":"Digi on rooftops on old"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1402.25,"endTime":1405.67,"body":"construction sites that are just"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1402.25,"endTime":1405.67,"body":"dilapidated or on brownfields,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1405.67,"endTime":1409.54,"body":"true brownfields like landfills."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1405.67,"endTime":1409.54,"body":"My own closed landfill here in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1409.54,"endTime":1412.75,"body":"the city of Urbana is now"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1409.54,"endTime":1412.75,"body":"solarized with community solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1412.78,"endTime":1416.38,"body":"that's targeting low and middle"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1412.78,"endTime":1416.38,"body":"income off takers. And that's a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1416.38,"endTime":1419.44,"body":"beautiful thing. Because"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1416.38,"endTime":1419.44,"body":"otherwise you can't do anything"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1419.44,"endTime":1423.1000000000001,"body":"with a closed landfill except"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1419.44,"endTime":1423.1000000000001,"body":"pray that it won't contaminate"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1423.1000000000001,"endTime":1424.96,"body":"your groundwater which it often"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1423.1000000000001,"endTime":1424.96,"body":"is doing."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1425.5,"endTime":1428.98,"body":"The Clean Power Hour is brought"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1425.5,"endTime":1428.98,"body":"to you by CPS America. The maker"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1428.98,"endTime":1431.8600000000001,"body":"of North America's number one"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1428.98,"endTime":1431.8600000000001,"body":"three phase string inverter with"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1431.8600000000001,"endTime":1435.31,"body":"over six gigawatts shipped in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1431.8600000000001,"endTime":1435.31,"body":"the US. The CPS America product"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1435.31,"endTime":1439.0,"body":"lineup includes three phase"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1435.31,"endTime":1439.0,"body":"string inverters ranging from 25"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1439.03,"endTime":1444.88,"body":"to 275 kW, their flagship"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1439.03,"endTime":1444.88,"body":"inverter, the CPS 250 to 75 is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1444.88,"endTime":1447.19,"body":"designed to work with solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1444.88,"endTime":1447.19,"body":"plants ranging from two"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1447.19,"endTime":1452.83,"body":"megawatts to two gigawatts, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1447.19,"endTime":1452.83,"body":"250 to 275 pairs well, with CPS"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1452.83,"endTime":1456.25,"body":"America's exceptional data"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1452.83,"endTime":1456.25,"body":"communication controls and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1456.25,"endTime":1460.69,"body":"energy storage solutions, go to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1456.25,"endTime":1460.69,"body":"chintpowersystems.com To find"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1460.69,"endTime":1461.23,"body":"out more."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1462.01,"endTime":1466.3,"body":"So but but but we were talking"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1462.01,"endTime":1466.3,"body":"about we need to loop back to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1466.33,"endTime":1470.23,"body":"Illinois because you did quite a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1466.33,"endTime":1470.23,"body":"bit of work with a CEA around"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1470.23,"endTime":1475.63,"body":"the time that we were getting CJ"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1470.23,"endTime":1475.63,"body":"I believe. And CJ is good, but"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1475.63,"endTime":1479.1100000000001,"body":"it's not perfect. Like there's a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1475.63,"endTime":1479.1100000000001,"body":"cliff coming for example, in net"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1479.1100000000001,"endTime":1483.52,"body":"metering right? In 2025. The"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1479.1100000000001,"endTime":1483.52,"body":"cliff is going to happen for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1483.52,"endTime":1487.3600000000001,"body":"residential solar, it's already"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1483.52,"endTime":1487.3600000000001,"body":"happening for CNI, solar, if you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1487.3600000000001,"endTime":1491.32,"body":"take advantage of the smart"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1487.3600000000001,"endTime":1491.32,"body":"inverter rebate, then the off"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1491.32,"endTime":1496.03,"body":"taker does not get full retail"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1491.32,"endTime":1496.03,"body":"net metering. Because I mean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1496.03,"endTime":1500.17,"body":"that the the smart inverter"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1496.03,"endTime":1500.17,"body":"rebate is generous, it's 10 to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1500.17,"endTime":1505.27,"body":"15% of a project's cost, coming"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1500.17,"endTime":1505.27,"body":"back in a lump sum to the owner."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1505.93,"endTime":1509.98,"body":"So it is compelling for the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1505.93,"endTime":1509.98,"body":"owner to take that incentive."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1510.82,"endTime":1514.63,"body":"But it also then devalues net"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1510.82,"endTime":1514.63,"body":"metering in and just if you're a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1514.63,"endTime":1518.83,"body":"listener and don't understand"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1514.63,"endTime":1518.83,"body":"what happens when you devalue"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1518.83,"endTime":1522.8500000000001,"body":"net metering, dig into, for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1518.83,"endTime":1522.8500000000001,"body":"example, nem 3.0, in California,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1523.15,"endTime":1528.16,"body":"where they devalued solar by"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1523.15,"endTime":1528.16,"body":"something like 70%, I think is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1528.16,"endTime":1532.3600000000001,"body":"at the beginning of 2023. And it"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1528.16,"endTime":1532.3600000000001,"body":"has crushed the solar industry"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1532.3600000000001,"endTime":1535.3600000000001,"body":"there. The solar industry has"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1532.3600000000001,"endTime":1535.3600000000001,"body":"fallen off a cliff, even though"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1535.3600000000001,"endTime":1539.3500000000001,"body":"everyone was very pollyannish."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1535.3600000000001,"endTime":1539.3500000000001,"body":"Last fall about well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1539.3500000000001,"endTime":1542.08,"body":"we're gonna do solar and storage"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1539.3500000000001,"endTime":1542.08,"body":"now. And it's gonna, it's going"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1542.08,"endTime":1544.57,"body":"to be okay, well, guess what?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1542.08,"endTime":1544.57,"body":"Yeah, you are doing more"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1544.57,"endTime":1548.02,"body":"storage, and that's a good"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1544.57,"endTime":1548.02,"body":"thing. But the whole industry is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1548.02,"endTime":1552.3700000000001,"body":"tanking. Because when a consumer"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1548.02,"endTime":1552.3700000000001,"body":"doesn't get a payback, they"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1552.3700000000001,"endTime":1556.18,"body":"don't do it. That, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1552.3700000000001,"endTime":1556.18,"body":"money really talks in energy."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1556.75,"endTime":1560.92,"body":"It's economic, economics, trumps"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1556.75,"endTime":1560.92,"body":"everything else, you could be"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1560.92,"endTime":1563.65,"body":"the biggest environmentalist in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1560.92,"endTime":1563.65,"body":"the world. But if the payback"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1563.65,"endTime":1566.1100000000001,"body":"period is 15 years, you're going"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1563.65,"endTime":1566.1100000000001,"body":"wait a minute, I don't know, I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1566.1100000000001,"endTime":1568.96,"body":"don't know if I'm gonna be in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1566.1100000000001,"endTime":1568.96,"body":"this house for 15 years, is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1568.96,"endTime":1572.38,"body":"often then the calculus that get"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1568.96,"endTime":1572.38,"body":"sun or this building if it's a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1572.38,"endTime":1577.0,"body":"CNI project. So what was your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1572.38,"endTime":1577.0,"body":"involvement with with CGI and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1577.0,"endTime":1577.69,"body":"icea?"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1578.44,"endTime":1583.51,"body":"Well with CGI and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1578.44,"endTime":1583.51,"body":"Nicaea, that 960 page bill had"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1583.51,"endTime":1587.26,"body":"to become became rule. So it's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1583.51,"endTime":1587.26,"body":"kind of like the way Congress"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1587.26,"endTime":1591.52,"body":"works. Congress passes a law"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1587.26,"endTime":1591.52,"body":"like the Clean Air Act. And then"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1591.52,"endTime":1595.66,"body":"the EPA, which is the agency"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1591.52,"endTime":1595.66,"body":"they they are the ones that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1595.66,"endTime":1600.25,"body":"implement the rules that relate"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1595.66,"endTime":1600.25,"body":"to the legislature Well, what my"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1600.25,"endTime":1607.18,"body":"role with icea was to Help them"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1600.25,"endTime":1607.18,"body":"understand how that law became"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1607.18,"endTime":1611.8600000000001,"body":"rules. And to help the solar"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1607.18,"endTime":1611.8600000000001,"body":"industry, which was mostly local"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1611.8600000000001,"endTime":1615.31,"body":"and regional solar companies,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1611.8600000000001,"endTime":1615.31,"body":"which as you know, for sure kind"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1615.31,"endTime":1618.3700000000001,"body":"of what happens happened to the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1615.31,"endTime":1618.3700000000001,"body":"solar industry, help them"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1618.3700000000001,"endTime":1621.88,"body":"understand what needed to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1618.3700000000001,"endTime":1621.88,"body":"happen. In fact, the biggest"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1621.88,"endTime":1625.96,"body":"fights Tim, were"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1621.88,"endTime":1625.96,"body":"interconnection, and then wreck"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1625.96,"endTime":1630.8500000000001,"body":"prices. So wreck prices,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1625.96,"endTime":1630.8500000000001,"body":"renewable energy credit prices,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1630.94,"endTime":1635.89,"body":"how much would would those"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1630.94,"endTime":1635.89,"body":"rebates be and the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1635.89,"endTime":1640.8700000000001,"body":"interconnection agreement, when"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1635.89,"endTime":1640.8700000000001,"body":"and how that figured in as a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1640.8700000000001,"endTime":1647.05,"body":"milestone, now your point about"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1640.8700000000001,"endTime":1647.05,"body":"residential rooftop rooftop"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1647.05,"endTime":1651.22,"body":"solar taking the shorts as well"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1647.05,"endTime":1651.22,"body":"taken? Because really, we are"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1651.25,"endTime":1655.27,"body":"busy killing clean energy. Now,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1651.25,"endTime":1655.27,"body":"I would encourage you go look at"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1655.27,"endTime":1660.76,"body":"the CEA graph for Arizona. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1655.27,"endTime":1660.76,"body":"you what you will see is it in"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1660.76,"endTime":1663.67,"body":"the last few years, they kind of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1660.76,"endTime":1663.67,"body":"killed residential solar and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1663.7,"endTime":1667.99,"body":"2013 when they killed that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1663.7,"endTime":1667.99,"body":"metering? Yeah. And since then,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1668.14,"endTime":1671.8600000000001,"body":"residential solar is actually"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1668.14,"endTime":1671.8600000000001,"body":"more capacity than utility scale"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1671.8600000000001,"endTime":1678.91,"body":"solar, you know what that means?"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1671.8600000000001,"endTime":1678.91,"body":"You know, 200 times more, you"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1678.91,"endTime":1684.13,"body":"know, installations. It when you"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1678.91,"endTime":1684.13,"body":"consider that one megawatt of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1684.13,"endTime":1688.51,"body":"solar is about 200. rooftops."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1684.13,"endTime":1688.51,"body":"Yeah. And so basically what"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1688.51,"endTime":1692.17,"body":"Arizona now now they're finally"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1688.51,"endTime":1692.17,"body":"doing a little bit more utility"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1692.17,"endTime":1695.26,"body":"scale solar. But what they're"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1692.17,"endTime":1695.26,"body":"doing what the commission is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1695.26,"endTime":1699.67,"body":"doing by reducing that net"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1695.26,"endTime":1699.67,"body":"metering by reducing the amount"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1699.67,"endTime":1702.6100000000001,"body":"of money that people get paid"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1699.67,"endTime":1702.6100000000001,"body":"when they send excess generation"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1702.6100000000001,"endTime":1706.21,"body":"to the grid, similar to net"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1702.6100000000001,"endTime":1706.21,"body":"metering, but not net metering."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1706.63,"endTime":1711.22,"body":"Is it Yeah, like exactly what"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1706.63,"endTime":1711.22,"body":"you said, it kills solar, it"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1711.22,"endTime":1714.76,"body":"kills rooftop solar. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1711.22,"endTime":1714.76,"body":"unfortunately, in this country,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1714.97,"endTime":1718.09,"body":"we've been doing that now for a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1714.97,"endTime":1718.09,"body":"while. I'm sure you know, this,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1718.09,"endTime":1722.26,"body":"look at Australia, one out of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1718.09,"endTime":1722.26,"body":"every three homes has solar."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1722.47,"endTime":1726.07,"body":"Yeah, they have almost as many"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1722.47,"endTime":1726.07,"body":"solar and solutions, solar"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1726.07,"endTime":1729.25,"body":"installations we do in this"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1726.07,"endTime":1729.25,"body":"country, but their populations,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1729.28,"endTime":1733.51,"body":"25 million are worth 330"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1729.28,"endTime":1733.51,"body":"million. Yeah. If you look at"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1733.54,"endTime":1737.98,"body":"what my utility did, which is if"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1733.54,"endTime":1737.98,"body":"you put solar up, you must sell"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1738.01,"endTime":1742.72,"body":"every kilowatt hour to the grid,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1738.01,"endTime":1742.72,"body":"every single one for three"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1742.72,"endTime":1746.47,"body":"cents. No one in their right"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1742.72,"endTime":1746.47,"body":"mind would put up solar. Because"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1746.47,"endTime":1749.05,"body":"what happens if that kilowatt"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1746.47,"endTime":1749.05,"body":"hours it goes to my neighbor,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1749.23,"endTime":1752.6200000000001,"body":"and utility sells it to my"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1749.23,"endTime":1752.6200000000001,"body":"neighbor, for retail rate?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1752.89,"endTime":1754.93,"body":"So basically, what"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1752.89,"endTime":1754.93,"body":"is that retail rate? I'm just"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1754.93,"endTime":1755.44,"body":"curious."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1755.71,"endTime":1758.14,"body":"Well, here's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1755.71,"endTime":1758.14,"body":"what's funny to Tim, something"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1758.14,"endTime":1763.3,"body":"to pay attention to. In 2021, it"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1758.14,"endTime":1763.3,"body":"was nine and a half cents for my"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1763.3,"endTime":1767.14,"body":"utility, one of the lowest in"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1763.3,"endTime":1767.14,"body":"the country, then it got raised"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1767.14,"endTime":1770.8600000000001,"body":"to about 11. That's where it is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1767.14,"endTime":1770.8600000000001,"body":"now. Yeah. What's it going up to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1770.89,"endTime":1776.29,"body":"very soon, like next month,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1770.89,"endTime":1776.29,"body":"almost 1515 cents a kilowatt"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1776.29,"endTime":1782.26,"body":"hours. Why that jump fuel costs,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1776.29,"endTime":1782.26,"body":"because when you're 85%, natural"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1782.26,"endTime":1786.31,"body":"gas, you are completely"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1782.26,"endTime":1786.31,"body":"dependent on fuel costs. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1786.31,"endTime":1789.73,"body":"something that we haven't even"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1786.31,"endTime":1789.73,"body":"talked about yet is is the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1789.73,"endTime":1794.5,"body":"damages from those fuels. So"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1789.73,"endTime":1794.5,"body":"natural gas, because it is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1794.89,"endTime":1801.01,"body":"climate, accelerant on steroids."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1794.89,"endTime":1801.01,"body":"It's co2 on steroids is what"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1801.01,"endTime":1806.83,"body":"methane is, it is 86 times worse"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1801.01,"endTime":1806.83,"body":"for the climate than even co2,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1807.01,"endTime":1810.13,"body":"and it breaks down to co2 and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1807.01,"endTime":1810.13,"body":"water. So you end up with the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1810.13,"endTime":1814.54,"body":"same problem, you have a climate"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1810.13,"endTime":1814.54,"body":"warming gas. So you know, the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1814.54,"endTime":1819.28,"body":"utilities by ignoring the fact"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1814.54,"endTime":1819.28,"body":"that solar is a climate"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1819.28,"endTime":1824.08,"body":"solution, that solar when you"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1819.28,"endTime":1824.08,"body":"put solar up, the cost of your"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1824.08,"endTime":1827.74,"body":"electricity, then is pretty"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1824.08,"endTime":1827.74,"body":"flat. Unless your installer has"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1827.95,"endTime":1832.27,"body":"an escalator. If you own the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1827.95,"endTime":1832.27,"body":"solar system. It's going to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1832.27,"endTime":1837.8500000000001,"body":"displace your fuel costs. And so"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1832.27,"endTime":1837.8500000000001,"body":"we don't even recognize that I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1837.8500000000001,"endTime":1841.48,"body":"mean, states I think what's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1837.8500000000001,"endTime":1841.48,"body":"going to happen in the future is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1841.78,"endTime":1845.32,"body":"states like Arizona, which are"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1841.78,"endTime":1845.32,"body":"still running coal plants on"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1845.32,"endTime":1852.04,"body":"ground water. That is profoundly"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1845.32,"endTime":1852.04,"body":"stupid. Profoundly stupid. That"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1852.04,"endTime":1852.52,"body":"you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1852.6100000000001,"endTime":1854.89,"body":"mean meaning"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1852.6100000000001,"endTime":1854.89,"body":"they're using the groundwater"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1854.89,"endTime":1855.55,"body":"for cooling."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1855.82,"endTime":1858.64,"body":"Yeah, they're"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1855.82,"endTime":1858.64,"body":"running coal plants. On"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1858.64,"endTime":1863.5,"body":"groundwater. Yes, they are."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1858.64,"endTime":1863.5,"body":"Yeah. You know, Duke Energy. You"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1863.5,"endTime":1866.53,"body":"know, I looked this morning,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1863.5,"endTime":1866.53,"body":"Duke Energy Carolinas, which is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1866.53,"endTime":1870.01,"body":"North Carolina and South"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1866.53,"endTime":1870.01,"body":"Carolina, Dec and DEP. They"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1870.01,"endTime":1877.0,"body":"owned 350 megawatts of solar."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1870.01,"endTime":1877.0,"body":"They own 9000 megawatts of coal."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1877.57,"endTime":1884.05,"body":"9000 megawatts. Most of those"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1877.57,"endTime":1884.05,"body":"plants are 50 years old. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1884.1100000000001,"endTime":1885.16,"body":"two years,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1885.3700000000001,"endTime":1886.72,"body":"and they are being"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1885.3700000000001,"endTime":1886.72,"body":"sunsetted."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1886.93,"endTime":1888.97,"body":"You know, so So"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1886.93,"endTime":1888.97,"body":"this is where I think the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1888.97,"endTime":1893.08,"body":"regulator's are really letting"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1888.97,"endTime":1893.08,"body":"us down. We're living. We're"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1893.08,"endTime":1899.02,"body":"pretending like it's 1980 it's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1893.08,"endTime":1899.02,"body":"not 1980. We could hit 1.5"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1899.02,"endTime":1902.95,"body":"degrees C rise this year,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1899.02,"endTime":1902.95,"body":"probably next year. We're sure"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1902.95,"endTime":1907.45,"body":"with El Nino. And so I feel like"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1902.95,"endTime":1907.45,"body":"our regulators are living in the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1907.45,"endTime":1912.22,"body":"past, we need to live in"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1907.45,"endTime":1912.22,"body":"reality, we need to recognize"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1912.22,"endTime":1915.04,"body":"the value that clean energy"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":1912.22,"endTime":1915.04,"body":"brings us."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1915.58,"endTime":1917.56,"body":"I liked the point"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1915.58,"endTime":1917.56,"body":"that you made in the in your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1917.56,"endTime":1922.15,"body":"opening remarks, you know that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1917.56,"endTime":1922.15,"body":"utilities are there as a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1922.15,"endTime":1927.22,"body":"service, right. And we gave them"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1922.15,"endTime":1927.22,"body":"this special power of being a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1927.52,"endTime":1932.77,"body":"regulated monopoly in most"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1927.52,"endTime":1932.77,"body":"markets, whether they're IOUs,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1932.77,"endTime":1937.57,"body":"or quote, unquote, public power,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1932.77,"endTime":1937.57,"body":"which is Munis and Co Ops, which"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1937.57,"endTime":1940.51,"body":"you also point out is a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1937.57,"endTime":1940.51,"body":"misnomer, calling them public"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1940.51,"endTime":1945.67,"body":"power sometimes, or many times."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1940.51,"endTime":1945.67,"body":"And so the utilities are there"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1945.67,"endTime":1948.88,"body":"for humanity, though, for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1945.67,"endTime":1948.88,"body":"society, right to provide us,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1949.03,"endTime":1955.3600000000001,"body":"you know, 99.99999%, uptime and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1949.03,"endTime":1955.3600000000001,"body":"electricity. And for the most"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1955.3600000000001,"endTime":1958.03,"body":"part, the grid does work very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1955.3600000000001,"endTime":1958.03,"body":"well in the places like the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1958.03,"endTime":1962.74,"body":"United States. You know, I here"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1958.03,"endTime":1962.74,"body":"in central Illinois seldom have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1962.74,"endTime":1966.1000000000001,"body":"blackouts or brownouts, so very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1962.74,"endTime":1966.1000000000001,"body":"seldom. So we have a very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1966.1000000000001,"endTime":1970.78,"body":"reliable grid. And I'm grateful"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1966.1000000000001,"endTime":1970.78,"body":"for that. But times change,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1970.78,"endTime":1974.77,"body":"right, and the utilities are not"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1970.78,"endTime":1974.77,"body":"changing fast enough with the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1974.77,"endTime":1979.18,"body":"times. And as a result, there is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1974.77,"endTime":1979.18,"body":"a ton of friction between the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1979.18,"endTime":1982.6000000000001,"body":"utilities. And the clean energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1979.18,"endTime":1982.6000000000001,"body":"industry, which is consumers"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1982.6000000000001,"endTime":1986.56,"body":"want clean energy, they want to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1982.6000000000001,"endTime":1986.56,"body":"decarbonize the economy, they"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1986.56,"endTime":1990.55,"body":"want cleaner air, air pollution"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1986.56,"endTime":1990.55,"body":"kills 6 million plus people a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1990.55,"endTime":1994.54,"body":"year globally, it's a massive"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1990.55,"endTime":1994.54,"body":"health negative health impact."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1994.81,"endTime":1999.7,"body":"It's causing climate"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1994.81,"endTime":1999.7,"body":"uncertainty, climate chaos. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1999.7,"endTime":2003.03,"body":"that is going to be extremely"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1999.7,"endTime":2003.03,"body":"costly, both in health, food"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2003.03,"endTime":2007.41,"body":"systems, migration, defense,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2003.03,"endTime":2007.41,"body":"etc, etc. I mean, the the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2007.41,"endTime":2011.8500000000001,"body":"cascading interactions, there"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2007.41,"endTime":2011.8500000000001,"body":"are so many, most consumers just"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2012.03,"endTime":2016.56,"body":"have no concept of the cost of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2012.03,"endTime":2016.56,"body":"climate change. It seems very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2016.56,"endTime":2020.55,"body":"distant, right? It's out there"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2016.56,"endTime":2020.55,"body":"somewhere in the midst. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2020.55,"endTime":2024.42,"body":"yeah, we're seeing fires and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2020.55,"endTime":2024.42,"body":"floods and droughts and, and we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2024.42,"endTime":2027.3600000000001,"body":"are seeing real and heat waves,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2024.42,"endTime":2027.3600000000001,"body":"right? We are seeing real"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2027.3600000000001,"endTime":2031.02,"body":"impacts from climate change."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2027.3600000000001,"endTime":2031.02,"body":"Now, for ordinary people in many"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2031.02,"endTime":2035.76,"body":"parts of the US, not to mention"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2031.02,"endTime":2035.76,"body":"the global South, right, where"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2035.79,"endTime":2039.63,"body":"mass migration is occurring. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2035.79,"endTime":2039.63,"body":"guess what people? They're gonna"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2039.63,"endTime":2043.44,"body":"come to your backyard. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2039.63,"endTime":2043.44,"body":"that's not a that's not a happy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2043.44,"endTime":2048.18,"body":"thing. I mean, we have we have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2043.44,"endTime":2048.18,"body":"immigrant camps now, right, in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2048.18,"endTime":2052.47,"body":"our major metros, from"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2048.18,"endTime":2052.47,"body":"Venezuelan migrants coming all"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2052.47,"endTime":2056.67,"body":"the way from Venezuela to North"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2052.47,"endTime":2056.67,"body":"America, because things are not"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2056.67,"endTime":2060.21,"body":"good there. Well, if your food"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2056.67,"endTime":2060.21,"body":"system is disrupted, that's not"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2060.21,"endTime":2063.99,"body":"good, right? And you have no"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2060.21,"endTime":2063.99,"body":"choice but to migrate. Because"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2064.02,"endTime":2068.88,"body":"Starvation is not happy. So, So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2064.02,"endTime":2068.88,"body":"climate change does have a very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2068.88,"endTime":2071.85,"body":"real cost. We're just just"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2068.88,"endTime":2071.85,"body":"scratching the surface in terms"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2071.85,"endTime":2076.14,"body":"of the real costs. But let's get"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2071.85,"endTime":2076.14,"body":"back to this PUC business, and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2076.29,"endTime":2080.31,"body":"what does society need to do?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2076.29,"endTime":2080.31,"body":"Right, you've got the regulated"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2080.7599999999998,"endTime":2085.2,"body":"a regulated monopoly, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2080.7599999999998,"endTime":2085.2,"body":"utilities, and then you've got"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2085.2,"endTime":2091.3199999999997,"body":"this oversight, the PUC. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2085.2,"endTime":2091.3199999999997,"body":"together, they're not getting"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2091.3199999999997,"endTime":2094.17,"body":"the job done, so to speak,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2091.3199999999997,"endTime":2094.17,"body":"right, there's still a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2094.17,"endTime":2100.08,"body":"friction for, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2094.17,"endTime":2100.08,"body":"transition that consumers and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2100.11,"endTime":2104.19,"body":"the clean energy industries want"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2100.11,"endTime":2104.19,"body":"to make happen, and they want to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2104.19,"endTime":2108.09,"body":"fulfill these RPS is, but I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2104.19,"endTime":2108.09,"body":"mean, it's a it's a huge"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2108.09,"endTime":2111.51,"body":"problem. I just came from"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2108.09,"endTime":2111.51,"body":"Minnesota, okay, Minnesota had"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2111.51,"endTime":2116.4300000000003,"body":"their state conference Cup last"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2111.51,"endTime":2116.4300000000003,"body":"week. The wait times for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2116.4300000000003,"endTime":2121.2000000000003,"body":"interconnection with Excel, a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2116.4300000000003,"endTime":2121.2000000000003,"body":"major IOU that covers a huge"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2121.2000000000003,"endTime":2127.38,"body":"swath of Minnesota are over a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2121.2000000000003,"endTime":2127.38,"body":"year for distributed generation,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2127.4100000000003,"endTime":2130.71,"body":"like community solar, and it's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2127.4100000000003,"endTime":2130.71,"body":"crushing the community solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2130.71,"endTime":2136.65,"body":"industry. And, and the N XL is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2130.71,"endTime":2136.65,"body":"just going, you know, sue me."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2136.98,"endTime":2140.58,"body":"Right? They, I mean, that's the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2136.98,"endTime":2140.58,"body":"thing is they are very, very,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2140.58,"endTime":2142.7400000000002,"body":"very powerful. So how do we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2140.58,"endTime":2142.7400000000002,"body":"change that?"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2143.31,"endTime":2145.4700000000003,"body":"Yeah. And that's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2143.31,"endTime":2145.4700000000003,"body":"a it's a conundrum, you know,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2145.6800000000003,"endTime":2150.0,"body":"back when they designed the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2145.6800000000003,"endTime":2150.0,"body":"system of state regulatory state"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2150.0,"endTime":2155.7300000000005,"body":"regulators, which was, you know,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2150.0,"endTime":2155.7300000000005,"body":"back in the 1930s, Samuel insol,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2155.7300000000005,"endTime":2158.7300000000005,"body":"who's very famous guy who was"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2155.7300000000005,"endTime":2158.7300000000005,"body":"you know, Edison's right hand"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2158.7300000000005,"endTime":2162.96,"body":"man, they knew that when they"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2158.7300000000005,"endTime":2162.96,"body":"designed the regulatory system"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2162.96,"endTime":2166.6200000000003,"body":"that would be easy to capture"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2162.96,"endTime":2166.6200000000003,"body":"the regulators. And I would say,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2166.92,"endTime":2170.4,"body":"one of the things that I feel"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2166.92,"endTime":2170.4,"body":"like I've seen in my career is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2170.4,"endTime":2174.8100000000004,"body":"that it is so complicated that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2170.4,"endTime":2174.8100000000004,"body":"people just don't engage and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2174.8100000000004,"endTime":2177.96,"body":"that the utilities instead of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2174.8100000000004,"endTime":2177.96,"body":"directly addressing the problem,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2178.26,"endTime":2181.05,"body":"they've just made things more"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2178.26,"endTime":2181.05,"body":"and more complicated. So it"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2181.05,"endTime":2184.32,"body":"makes it more and more difficult"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2181.05,"endTime":2184.32,"body":"for people to understand. So"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2184.32,"endTime":2188.28,"body":"what do we do about this? Well,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2184.32,"endTime":2188.28,"body":"we have to hold our regulators"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2188.28,"endTime":2192.15,"body":"feet to the fire. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2188.28,"endTime":2192.15,"body":"reasons why it has been so"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2192.15,"endTime":2195.69,"body":"difficult is that it's really"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2192.15,"endTime":2195.69,"body":"hard to appeal a decision by a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2195.69,"endTime":2199.6200000000003,"body":"Public Utilities Commission. The"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2195.69,"endTime":2199.6200000000003,"body":"bar is very high, because"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2199.6200000000003,"endTime":2203.46,"body":"they're quasi judicial agencies"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2199.6200000000003,"endTime":2203.46,"body":"that have a lot of power. And so"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2203.46,"endTime":2207.69,"body":"it has to be pretty egregious"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2203.46,"endTime":2207.69,"body":"for court, a regular court of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2207.69,"endTime":2211.6800000000003,"body":"law to overturn what they do."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2207.69,"endTime":2211.6800000000003,"body":"And then you've got utilities"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2211.6800000000003,"endTime":2214.92,"body":"like Duke, Duke Energy, who's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2211.6800000000003,"endTime":2214.92,"body":"one of the biggest, most"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2214.92,"endTime":2218.5800000000004,"body":"powerful lobbyists and campaign"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2214.92,"endTime":2218.5800000000004,"body":"contributors in the state of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2218.5800000000004,"endTime":2223.05,"body":"North Carolina, Duke Energy,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2218.5800000000004,"endTime":2223.05,"body":"what's Duke Energy trying to do?"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2223.2000000000003,"endTime":2227.3100000000004,"body":"protect their monopoly? That's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2223.2000000000003,"endTime":2227.3100000000004,"body":"what they're trying to do. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2227.3100000000004,"endTime":2231.4500000000003,"body":"so, by making things more and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2227.3100000000004,"endTime":2231.4500000000003,"body":"more complex, I think some of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2231.4500000000003,"endTime":2235.7400000000002,"body":"the solutions are, for example,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2231.4500000000003,"endTime":2235.7400000000002,"body":"look what Connecticut, Maine and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2235.7400000000002,"endTime":2241.3500000000004,"body":"Colorado just did. They just"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2235.7400000000002,"endTime":2241.3500000000004,"body":"pass laws that don't allow"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2241.71,"endTime":2249.42,"body":"utilities to use their money, to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2241.71,"endTime":2249.42,"body":"use their money to lobby and to,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2250.59,"endTime":2253.26,"body":"you know, to do things like take"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2250.59,"endTime":2253.26,"body":"people out to dinner and stuff."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2253.53,"endTime":2256.2900000000004,"body":"You know, they're they're"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2253.53,"endTime":2256.2900000000004,"body":"imposing ethics, this should"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2256.2900000000004,"endTime":2260.7300000000005,"body":"have been done a long, long time"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2256.2900000000004,"endTime":2260.7300000000005,"body":"ago. Because the problem is that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2260.7300000000005,"endTime":2264.4800000000005,"body":"money talks, of course, and that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2260.7300000000005,"endTime":2264.4800000000005,"body":"that's what's undermining our"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2264.4800000000005,"endTime":2270.2700000000004,"body":"democracy. You know, here in my"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2264.4800000000005,"endTime":2270.2700000000004,"body":"little town, the university,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2270.2700000000004,"endTime":2276.15,"body":"which owns the utility dump,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2270.2700000000004,"endTime":2276.15,"body":"$25,000, the, the city council"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2276.15,"endTime":2279.7200000000003,"body":"race where people spend one or"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2276.15,"endTime":2279.7200000000003,"body":"$2,000, I was on town council"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2279.7200000000003,"endTime":2283.38,"body":"for a couple of years, because"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2279.7200000000003,"endTime":2283.38,"body":"they wanted friendly council"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2283.38,"endTime":2286.86,"body":"people, they actually didn't"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2283.38,"endTime":2286.86,"body":"win, despite spending more money"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2286.86,"endTime":2289.4100000000003,"body":"than anyone, it really ever"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2286.86,"endTime":2289.4100000000003,"body":"spent the whole history of the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2289.4100000000003,"endTime":2295.7400000000002,"body":"town. They didn't win. And this"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2289.4100000000003,"endTime":2295.7400000000002,"body":"is the kind of heavy handed you"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2295.7400000000002,"endTime":2298.9500000000003,"body":"know, putting your thumb on the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2295.7400000000002,"endTime":2298.9500000000003,"body":"scales that happens with the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2298.9500000000003,"endTime":2302.7000000000003,"body":"utilities. They're winning"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2298.9500000000003,"endTime":2302.7000000000003,"body":"because of complexity. The"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2302.7000000000003,"endTime":2306.1200000000003,"body":"problem I think that's going to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2302.7000000000003,"endTime":2306.1200000000003,"body":"happen that's happening is you"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2306.1200000000003,"endTime":2309.2700000000004,"body":"have young people who are not"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2306.1200000000003,"endTime":2309.2700000000004,"body":"just depressed, but angry and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2309.2700000000004,"endTime":2312.9300000000003,"body":"depressed, who see what's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2309.2700000000004,"endTime":2312.9300000000003,"body":"coming. And there's this,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2312.9300000000003,"endTime":2316.05,"body":"there's this gap. And I remember"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2312.9300000000003,"endTime":2316.05,"body":"talking to people like Hunter"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2316.05,"endTime":2320.2200000000003,"body":"Levin's about this, a over a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2316.05,"endTime":2320.2200000000003,"body":"decade ago, well over a decade"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2320.2200000000003,"endTime":2323.61,"body":"ago. But you have all these"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2320.2200000000003,"endTime":2323.61,"body":"people here who want to act on"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2323.61,"endTime":2327.1200000000003,"body":"climate. And then you have the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2323.61,"endTime":2327.1200000000003,"body":"Public Utilities Commission's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2327.1200000000003,"endTime":2331.8300000000004,"body":"here we have so much power, and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2327.1200000000003,"endTime":2331.8300000000004,"body":"there's a giant chasm, and how"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2331.8300000000004,"endTime":2336.6600000000003,"body":"do we affect the regulatory"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2331.8300000000004,"endTime":2336.6600000000003,"body":"decisions, you have to go in"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2336.6600000000003,"endTime":2340.8900000000003,"body":"there, unfortunately, and mix it"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2336.6600000000003,"endTime":2340.8900000000003,"body":"up with them one on one. That's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2340.8900000000003,"endTime":2345.4500000000003,"body":"why I'm the only customer and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2340.8900000000003,"endTime":2345.4500000000003,"body":"108 years and my utility to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2345.51,"endTime":2349.6800000000003,"body":"challenge them, despite the fact"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2345.51,"endTime":2349.6800000000003,"body":"that 90% of the customers have"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2349.6800000000003,"endTime":2354.3900000000003,"body":"wanted clean energy for over a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2349.6800000000003,"endTime":2354.3900000000003,"body":"decade. survey after survey"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2354.3900000000003,"endTime":2358.44,"body":"after survey. I mean, you know,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2354.3900000000003,"endTime":2358.44,"body":"this, Tim, I remember back in"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2358.44,"endTime":2364.92,"body":"2009, when I was working for the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2358.44,"endTime":2364.92,"body":"Commission, we gave a PS, it was"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2364.92,"endTime":2369.03,"body":"like $800,000, to do a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2364.92,"endTime":2369.03,"body":"deliberative poll, where you ask"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2369.03,"endTime":2371.7300000000005,"body":"people what kind of energy you"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2369.03,"endTime":2371.7300000000005,"body":"want, then you spend time and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2371.7300000000005,"endTime":2375.2700000000004,"body":"energy educating them and you"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2371.7300000000005,"endTime":2375.2700000000004,"body":"pay them for their time, then"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2375.2700000000004,"endTime":2379.0200000000004,"body":"you ask them the same questions."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2375.2700000000004,"endTime":2379.0200000000004,"body":"Overwhelmingly, people wanted"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2379.0200000000004,"endTime":2382.26,"body":"solar once they learned about"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2379.0200000000004,"endTime":2382.26,"body":"it. But what is the utility"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2382.26,"endTime":2386.76,"body":"doing since then killing solar,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2382.26,"endTime":2386.76,"body":"you're killing it, and they're"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2386.76,"endTime":2390.69,"body":"locking us into natural gas. I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2386.76,"endTime":2390.69,"body":"remember talking to David"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2390.69,"endTime":2396.78,"body":"Hughes, my witness about this in"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2390.69,"endTime":2396.78,"body":"like 2007, we said, our what's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2396.8100000000004,"endTime":2399.78,"body":"what's going to happen in the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2396.8100000000004,"endTime":2399.78,"body":"future. Here's the nightmare"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2399.78,"endTime":2402.9300000000003,"body":"scenario, we increase our fossil"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2399.78,"endTime":2402.9300000000003,"body":"fuel burn, which is what we're"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2402.9300000000003,"endTime":2407.7300000000005,"body":"doing, we increase natural gas,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2402.9300000000003,"endTime":2407.7300000000005,"body":"which is a worse for the climate"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2407.7300000000005,"endTime":2411.9900000000002,"body":"than even coal. And we start"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2407.7300000000005,"endTime":2411.9900000000002,"body":"running out of fossil fuels. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2411.9900000000002,"endTime":2415.44,"body":"that's what's happening. The"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2411.9900000000002,"endTime":2415.44,"body":"fossil fuels that we dig up are"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2415.44,"endTime":2419.7300000000005,"body":"dirtier and dirtier, the health"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2415.44,"endTime":2419.7300000000005,"body":"effects are worse and worse. We"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2419.7300000000005,"endTime":2423.63,"body":"have coal power, that the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2419.7300000000005,"endTime":2423.63,"body":"utilities, you know, the to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2423.63,"endTime":2426.4500000000003,"body":"generate, it used to be three"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2423.63,"endTime":2426.4500000000003,"body":"cents, now it's five or six"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2426.4500000000003,"endTime":2430.8300000000004,"body":"cents, but the damages are 30"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2426.4500000000003,"endTime":2430.8300000000004,"body":"cents. You know, nature gas, the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2430.8300000000004,"endTime":2433.92,"body":"damages are, the damages are"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2430.8300000000004,"endTime":2433.92,"body":"bad, too, because they're"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2433.92,"endTime":2438.9,"body":"climate. So we have an industry"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2433.92,"endTime":2438.9,"body":"that refuses to recognize"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2438.9,"endTime":2442.2000000000003,"body":"reality. And we have regulators"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2438.9,"endTime":2442.2000000000003,"body":"that let them get away with it."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2441.4700000000003,"endTime":2445.88,"body":"I mean, the US"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2441.4700000000003,"endTime":2445.88,"body":"with the assistance of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2445.88,"endTime":2451.07,"body":"organizations like the Sierra"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2445.88,"endTime":2451.07,"body":"Club, have, you know, campaigned"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2451.1000000000004,"endTime":2458.3300000000004,"body":"to close down coal plants and,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2451.1000000000004,"endTime":2458.3300000000004,"body":"and accelerate their migration"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2458.3300000000004,"endTime":2460.88,"body":"to other technologies. And when"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2458.3300000000004,"endTime":2460.88,"body":"one of the major trends that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2460.88,"endTime":2464.6600000000003,"body":"happened in the last 20 years is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2460.88,"endTime":2464.6600000000003,"body":"coal plants converted to natural"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2464.6600000000003,"endTime":2469.76,"body":"gas plants. And there is a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2464.6600000000003,"endTime":2469.76,"body":"reduction in co2 on a per unit"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2469.76,"endTime":2474.92,"body":"of electricity when you burn"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2469.76,"endTime":2474.92,"body":"natural gas versus coal. But"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2474.9500000000003,"endTime":2478.4,"body":"you're Are you suggesting that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2474.9500000000003,"endTime":2478.4,"body":"in the greater scheme of things"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2478.4,"endTime":2481.34,"body":"that the industry, the natural"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2478.4,"endTime":2481.34,"body":"gas industry, because of the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2481.34,"endTime":2487.9100000000003,"body":"leakage of methane from those"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2481.34,"endTime":2487.9100000000003,"body":"wells, and from pipelines, that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2488.3300000000004,"endTime":2491.36,"body":"when you when you convert your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2488.3300000000004,"endTime":2491.36,"body":"economy to natural gas from"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2491.36,"endTime":2494.6600000000003,"body":"coal, you're not actually"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2491.36,"endTime":2494.6600000000003,"body":"cleaning the you're not reducing"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2494.6600000000003,"endTime":2495.65,"body":"the climate footprint?"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2495.8900000000003,"endTime":2497.9900000000002,"body":"You're not at all"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2495.8900000000003,"endTime":2497.9900000000002,"body":"and here's this here's an"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2497.9900000000002,"endTime":2502.4300000000003,"body":"interesting aside. I spent a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2497.9900000000002,"endTime":2502.4300000000003,"body":"long time unpacking the grid"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2502.4300000000003,"endTime":2506.3,"body":"greenhouse gas inventory and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2502.4300000000003,"endTime":2506.3,"body":"methane leakage, just put yours"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2506.3,"endTime":2511.9100000000003,"body":"on that stuff. And here's here's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2506.3,"endTime":2511.9100000000003,"body":"an interesting side. Note that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2511.9100000000003,"endTime":2516.11,"body":"has a huge effect right now what"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2511.9100000000003,"endTime":2516.11,"body":"we're doing. So the EPA has"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2516.11,"endTime":2522.44,"body":"always followed the IPC C's GWP."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2516.11,"endTime":2522.44,"body":"Okay, let's unpack that. The"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2522.44,"endTime":2528.2300000000005,"body":"global warming potential of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2522.44,"endTime":2528.2300000000005,"body":"various gases, right. So the EPA"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2528.2300000000005,"endTime":2532.3700000000003,"body":"has always followed the IPCC"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2528.2300000000005,"endTime":2532.3700000000003,"body":"except for methane, except for"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2532.3700000000003,"endTime":2536.4800000000005,"body":"natural gas. And they made the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2532.3700000000003,"endTime":2536.4800000000005,"body":"decision it was during the Obama"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2536.4800000000005,"endTime":2542.3,"body":"administration, to not recognize"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2536.4800000000005,"endTime":2542.3,"body":"that in the starting with the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2542.3,"endTime":2547.9100000000003,"body":"fifth assessment might have been"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2542.3,"endTime":2547.9100000000003,"body":"the fourth that the IPCC upped"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2547.94,"endTime":2552.4700000000003,"body":"the global warming potential of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2547.94,"endTime":2552.4700000000003,"body":"natural gas from an initial like"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2552.4700000000003,"endTime":2558.8,"body":"25 to 86. Why? Because methane"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2552.4700000000003,"endTime":2558.8,"body":"breaks down really fast. And so"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2558.8,"endTime":2563.9300000000003,"body":"there's no point in having 100"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2558.8,"endTime":2563.9300000000003,"body":"year timeframe to determine what"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2563.9300000000003,"endTime":2567.92,"body":"the global warming potential is,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2563.9300000000003,"endTime":2567.92,"body":"it needs to be 20 years. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2567.9500000000003,"endTime":2573.2000000000003,"body":"so you have a fuel that is 86"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2567.9500000000003,"endTime":2573.2000000000003,"body":"times worse for the climate than"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2573.2000000000003,"endTime":2577.7300000000005,"body":"coal. You have the utilities"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2573.2000000000003,"endTime":2577.7300000000005,"body":"that are free to ignore that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2578.0000000000005,"endTime":2582.65,"body":"because of the EPA rules. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2578.0000000000005,"endTime":2582.65,"body":"you have a situation where"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2583.0400000000004,"endTime":2587.78,"body":"really natural gas once you look"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2583.0400000000004,"endTime":2587.78,"body":"at leakage, which Dr. Robert"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2587.78,"endTime":2592.13,"body":"Howarth has said for years, is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2587.78,"endTime":2592.13,"body":"more like four or 5%, not the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2592.13,"endTime":2595.94,"body":"one and a half percent, that the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2592.13,"endTime":2595.94,"body":"industry wants you to believe."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2596.3300000000004,"endTime":2601.3700000000003,"body":"And yes, you add in that"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2596.3300000000004,"endTime":2601.3700000000003,"body":"leakage. And it's way, way worse"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2601.3700000000003,"endTime":2606.2000000000003,"body":"for the climate than coal. You"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2601.3700000000003,"endTime":2606.2000000000003,"body":"you, you take this 86 times"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2606.26,"endTime":2610.5800000000004,"body":"global warming potential, and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2606.26,"endTime":2610.5800000000004,"body":"the leakage and it's off the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2610.5800000000004,"endTime":2615.8300000000004,"body":"chart. And that is why our"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2610.5800000000004,"endTime":2615.8300000000004,"body":"methane levels in the atmosphere"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2616.2500000000005,"endTime":2621.71,"body":"have gone from 750 to like 1950"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2616.2500000000005,"endTime":2621.71,"body":"parts per billion in a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2621.71,"endTime":2625.8500000000004,"body":"relatively short time, like 20"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2621.71,"endTime":2625.8500000000004,"body":"years. 30 years."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2626.21,"endTime":2628.4,"body":"Not that much time"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2626.21,"endTime":2628.4,"body":"you don't hear people talk about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2628.4,"endTime":2632.57,"body":"the parts per billion of of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2628.4,"endTime":2632.57,"body":"methane, you hear about ppm of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2632.57,"endTime":2637.01,"body":"co2, which has been going up"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2632.57,"endTime":2637.01,"body":"about 1%. So we're now at 420."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2637.2500000000005,"endTime":2639.92,"body":"Right? The IPCC, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2637.2500000000005,"endTime":2639.92,"body":"Intergovernmental Panel on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2639.92,"endTime":2645.3500000000004,"body":"Climate Change, which is a UN"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2639.92,"endTime":2645.3500000000004,"body":"organization was started in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2645.38,"endTime":2655.01,"body":"1988. Yeah, right. And here we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2645.38,"endTime":2655.01,"body":"are 30 years later. And the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2655.01,"endTime":2659.8100000000004,"body":"problem is only getting worse."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2655.01,"endTime":2659.8100000000004,"body":"Yeah. And here's the good news."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2659.84,"endTime":2665.1200000000003,"body":"Okay, decarbonizing the economy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2659.84,"endTime":2665.1200000000003,"body":"is only 40 gigatons of co2 e."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2665.9300000000003,"endTime":2669.32,"body":"Okay, it's a relatively small"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2665.9300000000003,"endTime":2669.32,"body":"problem, there's a trillion tons"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2669.6200000000003,"endTime":2672.92,"body":"of co2 in the atmosphere,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2669.6200000000003,"endTime":2672.92,"body":"sucking out out is a bigger"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2672.92,"endTime":2677.6000000000004,"body":"problem, much, much, much bigger"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2672.92,"endTime":2677.6000000000004,"body":"problem. It's 25 times bigger of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2677.6000000000004,"endTime":2681.6200000000003,"body":"a problem. Now there are some"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2677.6000000000004,"endTime":2681.6200000000003,"body":"credible solutions, check out my"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2681.6200000000003,"endTime":2685.3100000000004,"body":"show with Peter Fiekowsky."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2681.6200000000003,"endTime":2685.3100000000004,"body":"Peterfiekowsky.com. He's written"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2685.3100000000004,"endTime":2689.1200000000003,"body":"a book called Climate"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2685.3100000000004,"endTime":2689.1200000000003,"body":"restoration. Showing that with"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2689.15,"endTime":2692.2700000000004,"body":"if we augment some natural"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2689.15,"endTime":2692.2700000000004,"body":"systems in the ocean, you can"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2692.2700000000004,"endTime":2694.5800000000004,"body":"truly suck that carbon out. The"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2692.2700000000004,"endTime":2694.5800000000004,"body":"question is, can you do that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2694.5800000000004,"endTime":2698.2400000000002,"body":"without completely disrupting"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2694.5800000000004,"endTime":2698.2400000000002,"body":"the ecosphere or the ecosystems,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2698.4800000000005,"endTime":2702.65,"body":"and that's TBD, because it is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2698.4800000000005,"endTime":2702.65,"body":"messing with nature, so to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2702.65,"endTime":2705.4100000000003,"body":"speak, but we have to do"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2702.65,"endTime":2705.4100000000003,"body":"something and we have to act"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2705.65,"endTime":2709.8500000000004,"body":"fast, because runaway climate"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2705.65,"endTime":2709.8500000000004,"body":"change is already taking place."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2710.69,"endTime":2714.7700000000004,"body":"And, and you know, you fast"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2710.69,"endTime":2714.7700000000004,"body":"forward 30 years, and it's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2714.7700000000004,"endTime":2717.2300000000005,"body":"really going to be scary for our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2714.7700000000004,"endTime":2717.2300000000005,"body":"children and children's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2717.2300000000005,"endTime":2721.82,"body":"children. And that's just one of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2717.2300000000005,"endTime":2721.82,"body":"the quote unquote, existential"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2721.82,"endTime":2725.4800000000005,"body":"threats, right, there's many"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2721.82,"endTime":2725.4800000000005,"body":"others that are coming down the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2725.4800000000005,"endTime":2728.3,"body":"pike here, AGI being one of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2725.4800000000005,"endTime":2728.3,"body":"them, artificial general"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2728.3,"endTime":2732.59,"body":"intelligence, artificial"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2728.3,"endTime":2732.59,"body":"biology, chemicals in the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2732.59,"endTime":2737.96,"body":"environment, etc, etc. Ocean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2732.59,"endTime":2737.96,"body":"acidification. I mean, there"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2737.9900000000002,"endTime":2743.57,"body":"really, it's it's truly a a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2737.9900000000002,"endTime":2743.57,"body":"gnarly, gnarly scenario that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2743.57,"endTime":2747.86,"body":"that our future holds for us. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2743.57,"endTime":2747.86,"body":"this this problem of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2747.86,"endTime":2750.4100000000003,"body":"decarbonizing the economy is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2747.86,"endTime":2750.4100000000003,"body":"actually the easy one. And we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2750.4100000000003,"endTime":2752.9900000000002,"body":"should just do that, right, we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2750.4100000000003,"endTime":2752.9900000000002,"body":"should just get it over the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2752.9900000000002,"endTime":2755.7500000000005,"body":"energy transition is going to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2752.9900000000002,"endTime":2755.7500000000005,"body":"happen. It's a question of how"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2755.7500000000005,"endTime":2759.8900000000003,"body":"fast because the economics are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2755.7500000000005,"endTime":2759.8900000000003,"body":"on the, on the side of these"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2759.8900000000003,"endTime":2763.34,"body":"newer technologies, wind, solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2759.8900000000003,"endTime":2763.34,"body":"and energy storage batteries,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2763.34,"endTime":2767.3,"body":"but other things, too. So in our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2763.34,"endTime":2767.3,"body":"last minute or two together"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2767.3,"endTime":2769.88,"body":"here, Nancy, I mean, I could"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2767.3,"endTime":2769.88,"body":"talk to you all day, but we have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2769.88,"endTime":2774.71,"body":"to, we have to do other things"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2769.88,"endTime":2774.71,"body":"besides just talk about PAC. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2775.01,"endTime":2779.03,"body":"what should our listeners know?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2775.01,"endTime":2779.03,"body":"What are some good resources for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2779.03,"endTime":2782.69,"body":"them? If they're trying to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2779.03,"endTime":2782.69,"body":"improve the situation in their"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2782.69,"endTime":2785.57,"body":"state? Of course, they could"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2782.69,"endTime":2785.57,"body":"contact you and hire you as a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2785.57,"endTime":2788.84,"body":"consultant, which would be a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2785.57,"endTime":2788.84,"body":"good idea probably. But what"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2788.84,"endTime":2791.9900000000002,"body":"should our listeners know about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2788.84,"endTime":2791.9900000000002,"body":"how to how to improve the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2791.9900000000002,"endTime":2795.5000000000005,"body":"scenario with PCs and utilities?"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2796.3100000000004,"endTime":2799.2500000000005,"body":"Yeah, I would say"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2796.3100000000004,"endTime":2799.2500000000005,"body":"we're looking at look where"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2799.2500000000005,"endTime":2803.03,"body":"you're you are, what state are"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2799.2500000000005,"endTime":2803.03,"body":"you in? Who is there It's doing"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2803.03,"endTime":2806.1200000000003,"body":"the work. Here in North"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2803.03,"endTime":2806.1200000000003,"body":"Carolina. We got lots of good"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2806.1200000000003,"endTime":2810.8900000000003,"body":"advocates. There's always the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2806.1200000000003,"endTime":2810.8900000000003,"body":"national groups three fifty.or."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2810.92,"endTime":2813.3500000000004,"body":"They're starting to look at"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2810.92,"endTime":2813.3500000000004,"body":"Public Utilities Commission,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2813.8,"endTime":2818.1800000000003,"body":"Bill McKibben new group called"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2813.8,"endTime":2818.1800000000003,"body":"third act. They are actively"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2818.1800000000003,"endTime":2821.15,"body":"involved starting to get"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2818.1800000000003,"endTime":2821.15,"body":"involved in Public Utility"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2821.1800000000003,"endTime":2825.38,"body":"Commission reform, energy and"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2821.1800000000003,"endTime":2825.38,"body":"Policy Institute digs up all the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2825.38,"endTime":2829.82,"body":"dirt. They dig up great dirt,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2825.38,"endTime":2829.82,"body":"unbelievable dirt, unbelievable"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2829.82,"endTime":2834.2000000000003,"body":"corruption. So I would recommend"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2829.82,"endTime":2834.2000000000003,"body":"to people that you get involved"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2834.2300000000005,"endTime":2838.4900000000002,"body":"wherever you are, again, there's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2834.2300000000005,"endTime":2838.4900000000002,"body":"national groups Electrify"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2838.4900000000002,"endTime":2843.3500000000004,"body":"America is a great group"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2838.4900000000002,"endTime":2843.3500000000004,"body":"rewiring America. And you know"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2843.3500000000004,"endTime":2846.9800000000005,"body":"what, we'll use my home here,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2843.3500000000004,"endTime":2846.9800000000005,"body":"we're finally putting solar up."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2847.34,"endTime":2850.5200000000004,"body":"Finally, because those rules"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2847.34,"endTime":2850.5200000000004,"body":"were so awful. We have two"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2850.5200000000004,"endTime":2854.7200000000003,"body":"electric vehicles. We have heat"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2850.5200000000004,"endTime":2854.7200000000003,"body":"pumps. And once we get our"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2854.7200000000003,"endTime":2859.4900000000002,"body":"solar, and it hopefully runs us"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2854.7200000000003,"endTime":2859.4900000000002,"body":"about maybe, let's say 60% of"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2859.4900000000002,"endTime":2863.9,"body":"our electricity use, we will"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2859.4900000000002,"endTime":2863.9,"body":"have decarbonize at least a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2863.9,"endTime":2870.4700000000003,"body":"substantial portion. And so, you"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2863.9,"endTime":2870.4700000000003,"body":"know, start to look at who's"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2870.4700000000003,"endTime":2875.3,"body":"doing what, and how can we help"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2870.4700000000003,"endTime":2875.3,"body":"the people that are trying to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2875.3,"endTime":2877.28,"body":"decarbonize our society?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2878.7500000000005,"endTime":2882.44,"body":"Have you been able"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2878.7500000000005,"endTime":2882.44,"body":"to disrupt that? No net metering"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2882.44,"endTime":2885.2900000000004,"body":"rule, though, or no retail net"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2882.44,"endTime":2885.2900000000004,"body":"metering rule in your in your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2885.2900000000004,"endTime":2886.07,"body":"home community?"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2886.2200000000003,"endTime":2889.0400000000004,"body":"Yes, yes. So"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2886.2200000000003,"endTime":2889.0400000000004,"body":"finally, what they did, Tim was"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2889.0400000000004,"endTime":2893.3,"body":"they finally submitted a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2889.0400000000004,"endTime":2893.3,"body":"proposal for net metering, but"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2893.3,"endTime":2897.92,"body":"it's a $6 per kilowatt per month"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2893.3,"endTime":2897.92,"body":"charge. So if you add that up,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2897.92,"endTime":2904.76,"body":"that's $7,200 a year extra fee"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2897.92,"endTime":2904.76,"body":"after 720 a year, sorry, 720 a"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2904.76,"endTime":2908.96,"body":"year, you have 10 kW. So what"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2904.76,"endTime":2908.96,"body":"over the 30 year life of the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2908.96,"endTime":2911.21,"body":"system? That's $22,000?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2911.42,"endTime":2913.7300000000005,"body":"Well, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2911.42,"endTime":2913.7300000000005,"body":"mean, the average savings from a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2913.7300000000005,"endTime":2916.7000000000003,"body":"solar system are only on the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2913.7300000000005,"endTime":2916.7000000000003,"body":"order of $1,000 a year."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2916.76,"endTime":2918.8900000000003,"body":"Right. And so"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2916.76,"endTime":2918.8900000000003,"body":"basically, they just killed the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2918.8900000000003,"endTime":2922.19,"body":"incentive. So what I argued"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2918.8900000000003,"endTime":2922.19,"body":"before the North Carolina"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2922.19,"endTime":2926.6000000000004,"body":"Utilities Commission and app"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2922.19,"endTime":2926.6000000000004,"body":"voices, is that if they allow my"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2926.6000000000004,"endTime":2932.57,"body":"utility to add a $6 per kilowatt"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2926.6000000000004,"endTime":2932.57,"body":"per month charge, it's going to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2932.57,"endTime":2935.84,"body":"base we're going to continue to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2932.57,"endTime":2935.84,"body":"have no solar and Boone, despite"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2935.84,"endTime":2939.6200000000003,"body":"the fact that 90% of the people"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2935.84,"endTime":2939.6200000000003,"body":"want it. And that even New River"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2939.6200000000003,"endTime":2942.8900000000003,"body":"Light and Power, which has done"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2939.6200000000003,"endTime":2942.8900000000003,"body":"everything they could to kill"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2942.8900000000003,"endTime":2947.6600000000003,"body":"solar, kill efficiency, no low"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2942.8900000000003,"endTime":2947.6600000000003,"body":"income programs, no rebates,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2947.69,"endTime":2954.4700000000003,"body":"nothing, nothing. That you know,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2947.69,"endTime":2954.4700000000003,"body":"that that we need this even New"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2954.4700000000003,"endTime":2958.7000000000003,"body":"River lighting power admitted"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2954.4700000000003,"endTime":2958.7000000000003,"body":"that distributed solar is worth"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2958.7000000000003,"endTime":2964.1000000000004,"body":"about 17 cents a kilowatt hour"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2958.7000000000003,"endTime":2964.1000000000004,"body":"17 cents a kilowatt hour, when"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2964.1000000000004,"endTime":2968.8100000000004,"body":"the retail cost of electricity"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2964.1000000000004,"endTime":2968.8100000000004,"body":"is going to be 15. So basically,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2968.8100000000004,"endTime":2974.0000000000005,"body":"we're doing them a favor by"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2968.8100000000004,"endTime":2974.0000000000005,"body":"helping to produce electricity,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2974.2400000000002,"endTime":2977.78,"body":"when it's going to be needed the"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2974.2400000000002,"endTime":2977.78,"body":"most. I mean, I look at my"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2977.78,"endTime":2981.17,"body":"street. And I see that hardly"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2977.78,"endTime":2981.17,"body":"anyone on my street has air"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2981.17,"endTime":2985.8500000000004,"body":"conditioning, maybe 20% of us"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2981.17,"endTime":2985.8500000000004,"body":"do. If we have a heatwave like"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2985.8500000000004,"endTime":2989.1800000000003,"body":"Portland did. We're gonna have"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2985.8500000000004,"endTime":2989.1800000000003,"body":"people over at our house,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2989.4800000000005,"endTime":2993.0800000000004,"body":"because we'll have solar. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2989.4800000000005,"endTime":2993.0800000000004,"body":"And this is what we are going to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2993.0800000000004,"endTime":2997.01,"body":"see going forward. The sad thing"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2993.0800000000004,"endTime":2997.01,"body":"is, it's going to happen"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2997.01,"endTime":3005.05,"body":"instead, Tim, in a nice managed"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":2997.01,"endTime":3005.05,"body":"way, it's going to be chaotic,"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":3005.11,"endTime":3008.7400000000002,"body":"because the utilities are not"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":3005.11,"endTime":3008.7400000000002,"body":"doing what they need to do. And"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":3008.7400000000002,"endTime":3010.63,"body":"the regulator's won't make them."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3012.0000000000005,"endTime":3013.9800000000005,"body":"Wow. Well, I was"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3012.0000000000005,"endTime":3013.9800000000005,"body":"hoping you would have some more"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3013.9800000000005,"endTime":3019.17,"body":"good news for me today. But you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3013.9800000000005,"endTime":3019.17,"body":"know, so we just it I think one"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3019.17,"endTime":3022.53,"body":"of my takeaways here is that we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3019.17,"endTime":3022.53,"body":"have to be very wary of natural"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3022.53,"endTime":3027.03,"body":"gas and what utility say about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3022.53,"endTime":3027.03,"body":"natural gas, that's very eye"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3027.03,"endTime":3029.3700000000003,"body":"opening about the parts per"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3027.03,"endTime":3029.3700000000003,"body":"billion increase in the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3029.3700000000003,"endTime":3032.7900000000004,"body":"atmosphere of methane. Methane"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3029.3700000000003,"endTime":3032.7900000000004,"body":"is an extremely potent"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3032.82,"endTime":3037.1400000000003,"body":"greenhouse gas. And, and that is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3032.82,"endTime":3037.1400000000003,"body":"one of the topics that Peter for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3037.1400000000003,"endTime":3041.82,"body":"kowski tackles. It's called"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3037.1400000000003,"endTime":3041.82,"body":"accelerated oxidation of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3041.82,"endTime":3046.8,"body":"methane, or enhanced methane"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3041.82,"endTime":3046.8,"body":"oxidation. Amo, because methane"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3046.8,"endTime":3050.0400000000004,"body":"is going to come out of, for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3046.8,"endTime":3050.0400000000004,"body":"example, the tundra, when the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3050.2200000000003,"endTime":3055.2000000000003,"body":"when the tundra melts because of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3050.2200000000003,"endTime":3055.2000000000003,"body":"climate change, right? And it's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3055.2000000000003,"endTime":3058.5600000000004,"body":"just spontaneously bubbling out"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3055.2000000000003,"endTime":3058.5600000000004,"body":"with because when you have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3058.5600000000004,"endTime":3061.3500000000004,"body":"decomposition in anoxic"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3058.5600000000004,"endTime":3061.3500000000004,"body":"environments, one of the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3061.3500000000004,"endTime":3065.5800000000004,"body":"byproducts is methane. So well,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3061.3500000000004,"endTime":3065.5800000000004,"body":"we're gonna leave it there. I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3065.5800000000004,"endTime":3068.13,"body":"want to thank Nancy LaPlaca. for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3065.5800000000004,"endTime":3068.13,"body":"coming on the show. Check out"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3068.13,"endTime":3071.55,"body":"all of our content,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3068.13,"endTime":3071.55,"body":"cleanpowerhour.com is the place"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3071.55,"endTime":3073.71,"body":"where you can find all of our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3071.55,"endTime":3073.71,"body":"content, you can click on the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3073.71,"endTime":3076.5600000000004,"body":"YouTube icon there, find our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3073.71,"endTime":3076.5600000000004,"body":"YouTube channel, please"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3076.5600000000004,"endTime":3080.67,"body":"subscribe to the channel, hit"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3076.5600000000004,"endTime":3080.67,"body":"that bell and reach out to me. I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3080.67,"endTime":3082.8900000000003,"body":"love hearing from my listeners,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3080.67,"endTime":3082.8900000000003,"body":"you can contact me on the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3082.8900000000003,"endTime":3087.51,"body":"website, you can contact me on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3082.8900000000003,"endTime":3087.51,"body":"LinkedIn, and book a book a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3087.51,"endTime":3090.9,"body":"meeting, I love to book meetings"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3087.51,"endTime":3090.9,"body":"with my listeners and learn what"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3090.9,"endTime":3093.96,"body":"you're up to. I am a consultant"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3090.9,"endTime":3093.96,"body":"to the clean energy industry. I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3093.96,"endTime":3098.0400000000004,"body":"work with installers,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3093.96,"endTime":3098.0400000000004,"body":"developers, and OEMs and helping"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3098.0400000000004,"endTime":3101.5200000000004,"body":"them go faster further. So if"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3098.0400000000004,"endTime":3101.5200000000004,"body":"you're a clean energy company,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3101.7000000000003,"endTime":3105.5400000000004,"body":"looking for As a consultant to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3101.7000000000003,"endTime":3105.5400000000004,"body":"help you with sales, marketing"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3105.5400000000004,"endTime":3109.2000000000003,"body":"and growth consulting, I'm your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3105.5400000000004,"endTime":3109.2000000000003,"body":"man. I want to thank Nancy Lee"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3109.2000000000003,"endTime":3112.3500000000004,"body":"placa for coming on the show"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3109.2000000000003,"endTime":3112.3500000000004,"body":"today. How can our listeners"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3112.3500000000004,"endTime":3113.19,"body":"find you, Nancy?"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":3113.8500000000004,"endTime":3116.46,"body":"Well, they can"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":3113.8500000000004,"endTime":3116.46,"body":"Google me find me on LinkedIn is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":3116.46,"endTime":3118.71,"body":"probably the best because I"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":3116.46,"endTime":3118.71,"body":"don't have a website, but just"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":3118.71,"endTime":3122.7000000000003,"body":"find me on LinkedIn. My name is"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":3118.71,"endTime":3122.7000000000003,"body":"unusual. So I'm very easy to"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":3122.7000000000003,"endTime":3127.4700000000003,"body":"find. And thanks so much, Tim."},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":3122.7000000000003,"endTime":3127.4700000000003,"body":"And please say hi to your dad."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3128.6400000000003,"endTime":3131.2200000000003,"body":"Absolutely, we'll"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3128.6400000000003,"endTime":3131.2200000000003,"body":"do. Well, I'm Tim Montague."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3131.2500000000005,"endTime":3134.07,"body":"Let's grow solar and storage."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3131.2500000000005,"endTime":3134.07,"body":"Take care dancy. All right,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3134.07,"endTime":3134.3100000000004,"body":"thanks"},{"speaker":"Nancy LaPlaca","startTime":3134.3100000000004,"endTime":3135.4800000000005,"body":"so much. Bye."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3135.8700000000003,"endTime":3140.76,"body":"Hey, listeners,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3135.8700000000003,"endTime":3140.76,"body":"this is Tim, I want to give a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3140.76,"endTime":3145.86,"body":"shout out to all of you. I do"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3140.76,"endTime":3145.86,"body":"this for you twice a week. Thank"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3145.86,"endTime":3150.09,"body":"you for being here. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3145.86,"endTime":3150.09,"body":"for giving us your time. I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3150.09,"endTime":3154.8,"body":"really appreciate you and what"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3150.09,"endTime":3154.8,"body":"you're all about. You are part"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3154.8,"endTime":3157.2300000000005,"body":"and parcel of the energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3154.8,"endTime":3157.2300000000005,"body":"transition, whether you're an"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3157.2300000000005,"endTime":3161.76,"body":"energy professional today, or an"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3157.2300000000005,"endTime":3161.76,"body":"aspiring energy professional. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3161.76,"endTime":3166.65,"body":"thank you, I want to let you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3161.76,"endTime":3166.65,"body":"know that the Clean Power Hour"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3166.65,"endTime":3172.2900000000004,"body":"has launched a listener survey."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3166.65,"endTime":3172.2900000000004,"body":"And it would mean so much to me."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3172.53,"endTime":3177.1200000000003,"body":"If you would go to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3172.53,"endTime":3177.1200000000003,"body":"cleanpowerhour.com. Click on the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3177.15,"endTime":3181.59,"body":"About Us link right there on the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3177.15,"endTime":3181.59,"body":"main navigation that takes you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3181.59,"endTime":3184.8300000000004,"body":"to the about page. And you'll"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3181.59,"endTime":3184.8300000000004,"body":"see a big graphic listener"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3184.8300000000004,"endTime":3188.9700000000003,"body":"survey, just click on that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3184.8300000000004,"endTime":3188.9700000000003,"body":"graphic, and it takes just a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3188.9700000000003,"endTime":3192.4500000000003,"body":"couple of minutes. If you fill"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3188.9700000000003,"endTime":3192.4500000000003,"body":"out the survey, I will send you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3192.4800000000005,"endTime":3198.42,"body":"a lovely baseball cap with our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3192.4800000000005,"endTime":3198.42,"body":"logo on it. The other thing I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3198.42,"endTime":3204.9,"body":"want our listeners to know is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3198.42,"endTime":3204.9,"body":"that this podcast is made"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3204.9,"endTime":3210.2400000000002,"body":"possible by corporate sponsors."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3204.9,"endTime":3210.2400000000002,"body":"We have chin power systems, the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3210.5400000000004,"endTime":3213.3300000000004,"body":"leading three phase string"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3210.5400000000004,"endTime":3213.3300000000004,"body":"inverter manufacturer in North"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3213.3300000000004,"endTime":3218.55,"body":"America. So check out CPS"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3213.3300000000004,"endTime":3218.55,"body":"America. But we are very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3218.55,"endTime":3223.86,"body":"actively looking for additional"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3218.55,"endTime":3223.86,"body":"support to make this show work."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3223.8900000000003,"endTime":3228.3900000000003,"body":"And you see here our media kit."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3223.8900000000003,"endTime":3228.3900000000003,"body":"With all the sponsor benefits"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3228.4500000000003,"endTime":3231.21,"body":"and statistics about the show."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3228.4500000000003,"endTime":3231.21,"body":"You know we're dropping two"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3231.21,"endTime":3236.28,"body":"episodes a week. We have now"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3231.21,"endTime":3236.28,"body":"over 320,000 downloads on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3236.28,"endTime":3241.3500000000004,"body":"YouTube. And we're getting about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3236.28,"endTime":3241.3500000000004,"body":"45,000 downloads per month. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3241.38,"endTime":3245.4900000000002,"body":"this is a great way to bring"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3241.38,"endTime":3245.4900000000002,"body":"your brand to our listeners and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3245.4900000000002,"endTime":3248.94,"body":"our listeners our decision"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3245.4900000000002,"endTime":3248.94,"body":"makers in clean energy. This"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3248.94,"endTime":3253.8900000000003,"body":"includes projects executives,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3248.94,"endTime":3253.8900000000003,"body":"engineers, finance, project"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3253.8900000000003,"endTime":3257.5800000000004,"body":"management, and many other"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3253.8900000000003,"endTime":3257.5800000000004,"body":"professionals who are making"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3257.5800000000004,"endTime":3263.28,"body":"decisions about and developing,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3257.5800000000004,"endTime":3263.28,"body":"designing, installing and making"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3263.28,"endTime":3269.67,"body":"possible clean energy projects."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3263.28,"endTime":3269.67,"body":"So check out cleanpowerhour.com"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3270.0600000000004,"endTime":3275.28,"body":"both our listener survey on the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3270.0600000000004,"endTime":3275.28,"body":"about us and our media kit and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3275.28,"endTime":3279.7500000000005,"body":"become a sponsor today. Thank"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3275.28,"endTime":3279.7500000000005,"body":"you so much. Let's go solar and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":3279.7500000000005,"endTime":3280.2300000000005,"body":"storage"}]}