{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":50.78,"endTime":54.32,"body":"Up two years"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":50.78,"endTime":54.32,"body":"ahead if there's a change in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":54.32,"endTime":56.96,"body":"government or what have you. The"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":54.32,"endTime":56.96,"body":"reality is, you see it right"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":56.96,"endTime":61.46,"body":"now, these big tech companies"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":56.96,"endTime":61.46,"body":"are signing massive contracts to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":61.46,"endTime":64.7,"body":"get more electrons. They just"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":61.46,"endTime":64.7,"body":"are, and it's renewables, right?"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":64.7,"endTime":70.88,"body":"So reality hits politicians in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":64.7,"endTime":70.88,"body":"the face much less quickly than"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":70.88,"endTime":73.9,"body":"it does corporate and the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":70.88,"endTime":73.9,"body":"reality is the corporate see"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":73.9,"endTime":77.2,"body":"that they have an insatiable"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":73.9,"endTime":77.2,"body":"appetite right now for energy,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":77.2,"endTime":83.98,"body":"electricity and power, and so"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":77.2,"endTime":83.98,"body":"there's going to be a lot of a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":83.98,"endTime":87.16,"body":"lot of demand for new energy,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":83.98,"endTime":87.16,"body":"and renewables is the quickest."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":87.58,"endTime":90.28,"body":"Is the fastest way to do that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":87.58,"endTime":90.28,"body":"and meet that need. Are"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":90.28,"endTime":93.36,"body":"you speeding the energy"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":90.28,"endTime":93.36,"body":"transition here at the Clean"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":93.36,"endTime":96.48,"body":"Power Hour, our host, Tim"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":93.36,"endTime":96.48,"body":"Montague, bring you the best in"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":96.48,"endTime":100.38,"body":"solar, batteries and clean"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":96.48,"endTime":100.38,"body":"technologies every week. Want to"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":100.38,"endTime":104.52000000000001,"body":"go deeper into decarbonization."},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":100.38,"endTime":104.52000000000001,"body":"We do too. We're here to help"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":104.52000000000001,"endTime":107.58,"body":"you understand and command the"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":104.52000000000001,"endTime":107.58,"body":"commercial, residential and"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":107.58,"endTime":111.80000000000001,"body":"utility, solar, wind and storage"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":107.58,"endTime":111.80000000000001,"body":"industries. So let's get to it"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":111.98,"endTime":114.62,"body":"together. We can speed the"},{"speaker":"intro","startTime":111.98,"endTime":114.62,"body":"energy transition"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":113.78,"endTime":117.299,"body":"today on the Clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":113.78,"endTime":117.299,"body":"Power Hour, the bullish case for"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":117.368,"endTime":120.818,"body":"the energy transition, or the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":117.368,"endTime":120.818,"body":"flip side crisis, is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":120.887,"endTime":125.166,"body":"opportunity. My guest today is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":120.887,"endTime":125.166,"body":"Keith Zakheim. He is the CEO of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":125.235,"endTime":129.582,"body":"antenna group, a communications"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":125.235,"endTime":129.582,"body":"and marketing firm based in New"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":129.651,"endTime":133.515,"body":"York City, and they have a very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":129.651,"endTime":133.515,"body":"extensive sustainability"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":133.584,"endTime":137.79399999999998,"body":"practice. He is also the host of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":133.584,"endTime":137.79399999999998,"body":"the age of adoption podcast,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":137.863,"endTime":142.14100000000002,"body":"which covers a lot of what we're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":137.863,"endTime":142.14100000000002,"body":"going to talk about today. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":142.21,"endTime":144.005,"body":"welcome to the show. Keith"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":144.88,"endTime":146.74,"body":"Tim, thanks so"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":144.88,"endTime":146.74,"body":"much for having me. And you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":146.74,"endTime":149.2,"body":"know, I've been a listener to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":146.74,"endTime":149.2,"body":"clean power hour for a long"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":149.2,"endTime":151.26,"body":"time. So for me, it's an honor"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":149.2,"endTime":151.26,"body":"to be here."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":151.92000000000002,"endTime":155.88,"body":"Great to have you."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":151.92000000000002,"endTime":155.88,"body":"So it is Strange Days in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":155.88,"endTime":159.72,"body":"America. It's, I like to say"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":155.88,"endTime":159.72,"body":"it's the best of times and the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":159.72,"endTime":164.82,"body":"worst of times. We have so much"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":159.72,"endTime":164.82,"body":"resources flowing into the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":164.82,"endTime":168.66,"body":"energy transition. It truly is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":164.82,"endTime":168.66,"body":"an unstoppable force, solar,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":168.66,"endTime":171.86,"body":"wind, batteries being the most"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":168.66,"endTime":171.86,"body":"cost effective sources of clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":171.86,"endTime":176.54000000000002,"body":"energy. You see that right"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":171.86,"endTime":176.54000000000002,"body":"globally, 80 90% of new energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":176.54000000000002,"endTime":179.84,"body":"on the grid is is clean energy,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":176.54000000000002,"endTime":179.84,"body":"and yet we have an"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":179.84,"endTime":183.44,"body":"administration in Washington"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":179.84,"endTime":183.44,"body":"that wants to stick a stick in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":183.44,"endTime":188.06,"body":"our eye and create friction and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":183.44,"endTime":188.06,"body":"claim to be propping up the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":188.06,"endTime":191.8,"body":"fossil fuel industry and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":188.06,"endTime":191.8,"body":"claiming that there's this green"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":191.8,"endTime":196.6,"body":"scam going on. But Keith, before"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":191.8,"endTime":196.6,"body":"we get into the green scam, tell"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":196.6,"endTime":199.48,"body":"our listeners a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":196.6,"endTime":199.48,"body":"yourself and why you care about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":199.48,"endTime":200.38,"body":"sustainability."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":201.4,"endTime":204.1,"body":"Yeah. Thanks."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":201.4,"endTime":204.1,"body":"Thanks. Tim, so I started"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":204.1,"endTime":206.68,"body":"antenna group, or it was a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":204.1,"endTime":206.68,"body":"different iteration when I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":206.68,"endTime":210.52,"body":"started it, but I started a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":206.68,"endTime":210.52,"body":"public relations shop in 2005 so"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":210.52,"endTime":213.72,"body":"hard to believe it's been 20"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":210.52,"endTime":213.72,"body":"years, and when we started, the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":213.72,"endTime":217.62,"body":"agency made the decision that we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":213.72,"endTime":217.62,"body":"wanted to focus in verticals"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":217.62,"endTime":220.44,"body":"that we found to be interesting,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":217.62,"endTime":220.44,"body":"consequential and mission"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":220.44,"endTime":223.2,"body":"driven. I come out of the public"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":220.44,"endTime":223.2,"body":"affairs space and issue advocacy"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":223.2,"endTime":227.22,"body":"space and 2005 for those who"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":223.2,"endTime":227.22,"body":"remember, I think George W Bush"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":227.22,"endTime":231.3,"body":"and his State of the Union"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":227.22,"endTime":231.3,"body":"address kind of kicked off the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":231.3,"endTime":236.06,"body":"latest phase in government"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":231.3,"endTime":236.06,"body":"investment in renewables and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":236.06,"endTime":239.84,"body":"climate and the private sector"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":236.06,"endTime":239.84,"body":"quickly started to kick in as"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":239.84,"endTime":243.26,"body":"well. So we found it to be, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":239.84,"endTime":243.26,"body":"know, both an interesting"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":243.26,"endTime":245.72,"body":"opportunity, one, of course,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":243.26,"endTime":245.72,"body":"that's important, you know. So"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":245.72,"endTime":248.36,"body":"for interesting, consequential"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":245.72,"endTime":248.36,"body":"and mission driven, it was"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":248.36,"endTime":250.34,"body":"certainly mission driven. We"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":248.36,"endTime":250.34,"body":"thought there was a great"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":250.34,"endTime":254.02,"body":"business opportunity as well. So"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":250.34,"endTime":254.02,"body":"we started early on, and we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":254.02,"endTime":257.68,"body":"started in business pretty"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":254.02,"endTime":257.68,"body":"quickly. The issue for us as an"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":257.74,"endTime":262.48,"body":"East Coast based see was in 2005"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":257.74,"endTime":262.48,"body":"you couldn't find a lot of comms"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":262.48,"endTime":265.53999999999996,"body":"and marketing people that had"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":262.48,"endTime":265.53999999999996,"body":"domain expertise and renewables"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":265.53999999999996,"endTime":269.2,"body":"and climate. And a lot of our"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":265.53999999999996,"endTime":269.2,"body":"clients were on the West Coast."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":269.2,"endTime":271.74,"body":"You know, the venture community"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":269.2,"endTime":271.74,"body":"at that point in Northern"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":271.74,"endTime":274.38,"body":"California, were funding a lot"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":271.74,"endTime":274.38,"body":"of these companies, so we had to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":274.38,"endTime":278.15999999999997,"body":"figure some way to build out a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":274.38,"endTime":278.15999999999997,"body":"bench of great communications"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":278.15999999999997,"endTime":281.52,"body":"professionals who could speak in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":278.15999999999997,"endTime":281.52,"body":"a sophisticated way about"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":281.52,"endTime":284.46000000000004,"body":"climate and renewables. And we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":281.52,"endTime":284.46000000000004,"body":"were lucky enough. It was kind"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":284.46000000000004,"endTime":287.4,"body":"of serendipitous that there was"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":284.46000000000004,"endTime":287.4,"body":"an agency in San Francisco"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":287.4,"endTime":291.08000000000004,"body":"called antenna group that at"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":287.4,"endTime":291.08000000000004,"body":"that point in their history was"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":291.74,"endTime":294.2,"body":"focusing on climate and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":291.74,"endTime":294.2,"body":"sustainability and what we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":294.2,"endTime":297.44,"body":"called cleantech back then, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":294.2,"endTime":297.44,"body":"we were lucky enough to be able"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":297.44,"endTime":302.06,"body":"to acquire that agency, and that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":297.44,"endTime":302.06,"body":"immediately enabled us to fill a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":302.06,"endTime":305.6,"body":"bench of fantastic comms and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":302.06,"endTime":305.6,"body":"marketing professionals, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":306.02,"endTime":310.22,"body":"away we went. And over the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":306.02,"endTime":310.22,"body":"years, you know, we've ridden"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":310.28,"endTime":314.32000000000005,"body":"that solar coasters. They call"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":310.28,"endTime":314.32000000000005,"body":"it as I know you have Tim and in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":314.32000000000005,"endTime":316.65999999999997,"body":"general, you know, we've"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":314.32000000000005,"endTime":316.65999999999997,"body":"experienced the ups and downs of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":316.65999999999997,"endTime":320.26,"body":"the industry, but all along, we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":316.65999999999997,"endTime":320.26,"body":"had a belief and an immutable"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":320.26,"endTime":322.9,"body":"belief, honestly, that the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":320.26,"endTime":322.9,"body":"future of climate and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":322.9,"endTime":326.14,"body":"sustainability and clean tech"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":322.9,"endTime":326.14,"body":"and clean energy was inexorable,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":326.14,"endTime":330.22,"body":"and it's and it's increasing"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":326.14,"endTime":330.22,"body":"adoption, and we wrote it, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":330.22,"endTime":333.65999999999997,"body":"we've been blessed to grow over"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":330.22,"endTime":333.65999999999997,"body":"the years as we've now expanded"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":333.65999999999997,"endTime":337.38,"body":"into all the different marketing"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":333.65999999999997,"endTime":337.38,"body":"disciplines, whether it's web"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":337.38,"endTime":340.67999999999995,"body":"development and performance,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":337.38,"endTime":340.67999999999995,"body":"marketing, creative and design,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":340.67999999999995,"endTime":344.03999999999996,"body":"addition to our public relations"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":340.67999999999995,"endTime":344.03999999999996,"body":"and comms, and we've also added"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":344.03999999999996,"endTime":346.74,"body":"public affairs. We're now"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":344.03999999999996,"endTime":346.74,"body":"global, so we've been able to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":346.74,"endTime":349.02,"body":"scale as the industry has"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":346.74,"endTime":349.02,"body":"scaled, which has been"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":349.02,"endTime":352.46000000000004,"body":"gratifying and. Ultimately, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":349.02,"endTime":352.46000000000004,"body":"know, we're doubling down in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":352.46000000000004,"endTime":355.1,"body":"this environment. I know we're"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":352.46000000000004,"endTime":355.1,"body":"going to talk more about this"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":355.1,"endTime":358.58000000000004,"body":"environment and the headwinds"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":355.1,"endTime":358.58000000000004,"body":"and where things are going, but"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":358.58000000000004,"endTime":361.88,"body":"ultimately, again, we both have"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":358.58000000000004,"endTime":361.88,"body":"this abiding belief that this is"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":361.88,"endTime":364.76,"body":"what the future is, and we see"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":361.88,"endTime":364.76,"body":"some really interesting near"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":364.76,"endTime":366.38,"body":"term and long term"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":364.76,"endTime":366.38,"body":"opportunities."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":367.34000000000003,"endTime":371.44000000000005,"body":"So we're recording"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":367.34000000000003,"endTime":371.44000000000005,"body":"here in mid July, 2025 the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":371.44000000000005,"endTime":376.29999999999995,"body":"Senate and the Congress has"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":371.44000000000005,"endTime":376.29999999999995,"body":"ratified the BBB, the big,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":376.29999999999995,"endTime":381.22,"body":"beautiful bill, which is a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":376.29999999999995,"endTime":381.22,"body":"wrecking ball in some regards to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":382.0,"endTime":388.29999999999995,"body":"clean energy and the solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":382.0,"endTime":388.29999999999995,"body":"industry, is kind of freaking"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":388.29999999999995,"endTime":394.67999999999995,"body":"out. Many companies are casting"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":388.29999999999995,"endTime":394.67999999999995,"body":"about for how to navigate these"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":395.03999999999996,"endTime":400.44000000000005,"body":"tumultuous waters. And my"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":395.03999999999996,"endTime":400.44000000000005,"body":"opinion is that we are here to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":400.44000000000005,"endTime":405.17999999999995,"body":"stay. Yes, there is going to be"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":400.44000000000005,"endTime":405.17999999999995,"body":"a contraction, and many"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":405.17999999999995,"endTime":408.65999999999997,"body":"companies will go away. There"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":405.17999999999995,"endTime":408.65999999999997,"body":"will be lots of mergers and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":408.65999999999997,"endTime":412.70000000000005,"body":"acquisitions, and there will be"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":408.65999999999997,"endTime":412.70000000000005,"body":"a refocusing for some companies,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":412.70000000000005,"endTime":416.78,"body":"or an expansion into other"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":412.70000000000005,"endTime":416.78,"body":"markets, adjacent markets. So I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":416.78,"endTime":420.55999999999995,"body":"think the days, for example, of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":416.78,"endTime":420.55999999999995,"body":"the solar alone installer, are"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":420.62,"endTime":425.36,"body":"pretty much gone. You have to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":420.62,"endTime":425.36,"body":"embrace batteries full on. You"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":425.36,"endTime":430.94000000000005,"body":"really should consider HVAC or"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":425.36,"endTime":430.94000000000005,"body":"roofing or some adjacent trades"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":430.94000000000005,"endTime":436.0,"body":"to solar, because solar pairs so"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":430.94000000000005,"endTime":436.0,"body":"well with other trades, and that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":436.0,"endTime":439.6,"body":"gives you multiple legs to stand"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":436.0,"endTime":439.6,"body":"on. But it really depends. You"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":439.6,"endTime":442.41999999999996,"body":"know, that's like if you're an"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":439.6,"endTime":442.41999999999996,"body":"installer, now, if you're a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":442.41999999999996,"endTime":446.55999999999995,"body":"technology company that makes"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":442.41999999999996,"endTime":446.55999999999995,"body":"solar panels, it doesn't really"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":446.55999999999995,"endTime":449.79999999999995,"body":"matter to you whether or not the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":446.55999999999995,"endTime":449.79999999999995,"body":"US exists, frankly, right,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":449.79999999999995,"endTime":453.0,"body":"Keith, because we're such a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":449.79999999999995,"endTime":453.0,"body":"minor player in that global"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":453.0,"endTime":458.76,"body":"economy. But what is your take"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":453.0,"endTime":458.76,"body":"on a I'm curious like, what do"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":458.76,"endTime":462.53999999999996,"body":"you think the Trump"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":458.76,"endTime":462.53999999999996,"body":"administration is trying to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":462.53999999999996,"endTime":468.0,"body":"achieve with the BBB in regards"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":462.53999999999996,"endTime":468.0,"body":"to the energy transition? And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":468.24,"endTime":471.67999999999995,"body":"what is the bullish case that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":468.24,"endTime":471.67999999999995,"body":"you have, you know, come to and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":471.67999999999995,"endTime":475.46000000000004,"body":"that you're communicating with"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":471.67999999999995,"endTime":475.46000000000004,"body":"your clients and through your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":475.46000000000004,"endTime":476.12,"body":"clients."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":477.08000000000004,"endTime":479.78,"body":"Yeah, so, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":477.08000000000004,"endTime":479.78,"body":"there's a, there's a kind of an"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":479.78,"endTime":482.96000000000004,"body":"economic case. I think that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":479.78,"endTime":482.96000000000004,"body":"bullish in terms of how we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":482.96000000000004,"endTime":485.65999999999997,"body":"communicate things for our"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":482.96000000000004,"endTime":485.65999999999997,"body":"clients and with our clients. We"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":485.65999999999997,"endTime":488.6,"body":"can discuss that. It's obviously"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":485.65999999999997,"endTime":488.6,"body":"related, just getting to your"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":488.6,"endTime":491.14,"body":"first question around the BBB"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":488.6,"endTime":491.14,"body":"and the point around it, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":491.14,"endTime":494.14,"body":"know, I can't, necessarily, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":491.14,"endTime":494.14,"body":"don't think anybody can read"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":494.14,"endTime":497.74,"body":"Donald Trump's mind and figure"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":494.14,"endTime":497.74,"body":"out exactly why he does certain"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":497.74,"endTime":501.76,"body":"things, whether or not his he"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":497.74,"endTime":501.76,"body":"detests renewables because of a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":501.76,"endTime":504.22,"body":"windmill that was near one of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":501.76,"endTime":504.22,"body":"his or wind turbine that was"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":504.22,"endTime":506.86,"body":"near one of his golf courses in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":504.22,"endTime":506.86,"body":"Scotland, and that turned him"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":506.86,"endTime":511.36,"body":"off, whether or not it's the big"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":506.86,"endTime":511.36,"body":"oil lobby that certainly has"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":511.36,"endTime":514.62,"body":"made a case for a long time that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":511.36,"endTime":514.62,"body":"sees renewables as a threat,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":514.62,"endTime":518.22,"body":"although the truth is Big Oil, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":514.62,"endTime":518.22,"body":"don't know, or certainly a lot"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":518.22,"endTime":521.52,"body":"of the major oil companies have"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":518.22,"endTime":521.52,"body":"huge investments, certainly"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":521.52,"endTime":523.8,"body":"around carbon capture. So I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":521.52,"endTime":523.8,"body":"don't think they look at, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":523.8,"endTime":526.44,"body":"know, they don't deny climate"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":523.8,"endTime":526.44,"body":"change, but ultimately, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":526.44,"endTime":528.9,"body":"know, let's put aside what"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":526.44,"endTime":528.9,"body":"Donald Trump was thinking. I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":528.9,"endTime":532.46,"body":"think we can all agree that it"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":528.9,"endTime":532.46,"body":"is significant headwinds for an"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":532.46,"endTime":535.4,"body":"industry that was growing by"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":532.46,"endTime":535.4,"body":"leaps and bounds with the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":535.4,"endTime":539.66,"body":"inflation Reduction Act. But I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":535.4,"endTime":539.66,"body":"just don't, I don't share the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":539.66,"endTime":542.72,"body":"view that this is a death knell,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":539.66,"endTime":542.72,"body":"and I don't even share the view"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":542.72,"endTime":545.72,"body":"that in the short term, it's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":542.72,"endTime":545.72,"body":"going to be, it's going to be a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":545.72,"endTime":548.48,"body":"correction. Don't get me wrong,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":545.72,"endTime":548.48,"body":"but I still think that the short"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":548.48,"endTime":552.58,"body":"term, there are just indicators"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":548.48,"endTime":552.58,"body":"and trends that play into the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":552.58,"endTime":556.9,"body":"hands of continued prosperity in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":552.58,"endTime":556.9,"body":"the solar renewables market. I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":556.9,"endTime":559.96,"body":"do agree about coupling, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":556.9,"endTime":559.96,"body":"know, solar and batteries and in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":560.08,"endTime":562.9,"body":"general, kind of looking at the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":560.08,"endTime":562.9,"body":"home as one of these micro grids"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":562.9,"endTime":567.8199999999999,"body":"that if you can sell into all"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":562.9,"endTime":567.8199999999999,"body":"cell batteries and panels and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":568.0,"endTime":570.6999999999999,"body":"energy efficiency systems and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":568.0,"endTime":570.6999999999999,"body":"with electric I mean, there's a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":570.6999999999999,"endTime":573.6,"body":"lot of things that can be"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":570.6999999999999,"endTime":573.6,"body":"coupled and agreed, but"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":573.6,"endTime":575.88,"body":"ultimately just kind of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":573.6,"endTime":575.88,"body":"bullish case. To get back to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":575.88,"endTime":582.0,"body":"your question, I think in April,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":575.88,"endTime":582.0,"body":"96% of all the energy that was"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":582.0,"endTime":586.62,"body":"added to the grid came from"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":582.0,"endTime":586.62,"body":"renewables, right? So it's now"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":586.62,"endTime":589.92,"body":"the cheapest electricity source"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":586.62,"endTime":589.92,"body":"in most parts of the US and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":589.92,"endTime":593.42,"body":"globally, even without federal"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":589.92,"endTime":593.42,"body":"support, right? And then, of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":593.42,"endTime":596.12,"body":"course, like renewable projects,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":593.42,"endTime":596.12,"body":"those you know, built without"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":596.12,"endTime":599.24,"body":"PPAs or subsidies, are becoming"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":596.12,"endTime":599.24,"body":"viable. And like high demand"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":599.24,"endTime":603.14,"body":"markets, I think the economics"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":599.24,"endTime":603.14,"body":"ultimately work. Corporate"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":603.14,"endTime":606.74,"body":"demand is policy agnostic,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":603.14,"endTime":606.74,"body":"right? And it's accelerating. So"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":606.8,"endTime":609.74,"body":"the Googles, Amazons, Microsoft"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":606.8,"endTime":609.74,"body":"of the world, they're signing"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":609.74,"endTime":612.8199999999999,"body":"gigawatts of solar, wind, PPAs,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":609.74,"endTime":612.8199999999999,"body":"they need it, right? I mean, we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":612.8199999999999,"endTime":616.54,"body":"need electrons on the grid. And"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":612.8199999999999,"endTime":616.54,"body":"let's face it, as much as this"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":616.54,"endTime":619.6,"body":"administration wants more"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":616.54,"endTime":619.6,"body":"natural gas, wants more coal,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":620.0799999999999,"endTime":623.4399999999999,"body":"those we just don't have the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":620.0799999999999,"endTime":623.4399999999999,"body":"capacity. New plants take a long"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":623.4399999999999,"endTime":626.1999999999999,"body":"time to be built, from what I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":623.4399999999999,"endTime":626.1999999999999,"body":"understand, well, what they need"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":626.1999999999999,"endTime":629.74,"body":"to build natural gas plants."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":626.1999999999999,"endTime":629.74,"body":"Those turbines are on back"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":629.74,"endTime":632.76,"body":"order. They don't have them"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":629.74,"endTime":632.76,"body":"readily available. So those are,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":632.76,"endTime":636.9,"body":"I mean, again, so the demand is"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":632.76,"endTime":636.9,"body":"going to make it that we need"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":636.9,"endTime":641.1,"body":"those renewable electrons. I'm"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":636.9,"endTime":641.1,"body":"not an economist, Tim, but laws"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":641.1,"endTime":643.86,"body":"of supply and demand. If the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":641.1,"endTime":643.86,"body":"demand is going up with these"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":643.86,"endTime":648.12,"body":"tech giants, and if supply is"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":643.86,"endTime":648.12,"body":"going to go down because of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":648.12,"endTime":651.1999999999999,"body":"putting renewables aside and not"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":648.12,"endTime":651.1999999999999,"body":"being able to get in. Off of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":651.1999999999999,"endTime":654.92,"body":"traditional electricity sources"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":651.1999999999999,"endTime":654.92,"body":"on the grid, then the price is"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":654.92,"endTime":657.86,"body":"going to go up, which will make"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":654.92,"endTime":657.86,"body":"renewables competitive, maybe"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":657.86,"endTime":661.6999999999999,"body":"even more competitive. So state"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":657.86,"endTime":661.6999999999999,"body":"and local governments are still"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":661.6999999999999,"endTime":664.4599999999999,"body":"all in. Global Markets are"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":661.6999999999999,"endTime":664.4599999999999,"body":"booming. We're getting better"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":664.4599999999999,"endTime":668.36,"body":"around grid tech"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":664.4599999999999,"endTime":668.36,"body":"interconnections, hopefully get"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":668.36,"endTime":670.9,"body":"better regulations around that."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":668.36,"endTime":670.9,"body":"So there's just a lot, in my"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":670.9,"endTime":674.4399999999999,"body":"opinion that I can make one"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":670.9,"endTime":674.4399999999999,"body":"bullish about it. Will there be"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":674.4399999999999,"endTime":677.0799999999999,"body":"an adjusted period? Of course,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":674.4399999999999,"endTime":677.0799999999999,"body":"will there be some contraction?"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":677.0799999999999,"endTime":679.48,"body":"Of course, the truth is, Tim,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":677.0799999999999,"endTime":679.48,"body":"every market needs some"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":679.48,"endTime":682.9599999999999,"body":"contraction, right? So I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":679.48,"endTime":682.9599999999999,"body":"that's going to happen. There'll"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":683.02,"endTime":685.54,"body":"be but ultimately, I'm very"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":683.02,"endTime":685.54,"body":"bullish on it."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":687.1,"endTime":690.694,"body":"Yeah. I mean, it"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":687.1,"endTime":690.694,"body":"was really happy days under the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":690.768,"endTime":695.411,"body":"Biden administration with the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":690.768,"endTime":695.411,"body":"IRA. And in my opinion, that was"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":695.486,"endTime":699.978,"body":"very good industrial policy. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":695.486,"endTime":699.978,"body":"we did see the reshoring of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":700.053,"endTime":704.246,"body":"many, well, onshoring and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":700.053,"endTime":704.246,"body":"reshoring of battery factories"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":704.321,"endTime":708.889,"body":"and solar panel factories. And"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":704.321,"endTime":708.889,"body":"you know, some of that's going"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":708.9639999999999,"endTime":713.456,"body":"to go away now. And SEIA, you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":708.9639999999999,"endTime":713.456,"body":"know, is documenting this, but"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":713.531,"endTime":718.2479999999999,"body":"the Clean Power Hour is brought"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":713.531,"endTime":718.2479999999999,"body":"to you by CPS America, maker of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":718.323,"endTime":723.115,"body":"North America's number one three"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":718.323,"endTime":723.115,"body":"phase string inverter with over"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":723.1899999999999,"endTime":727.458,"body":"eight gigawatts shipped in the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":723.1899999999999,"endTime":727.458,"body":"US. The CPS product lineup"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":727.533,"endTime":731.651,"body":"includes string inverters"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":727.533,"endTime":731.651,"body":"ranging from 25 kW to 350 kW."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":731.726,"endTime":736.518,"body":"Their flagship inverter, the CPS"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":731.726,"endTime":736.518,"body":"350 KW is designed to work with"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":736.593,"endTime":741.161,"body":"solar plants ranging from two"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":736.593,"endTime":741.161,"body":"megawatts to two gigawatts. CPS"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":741.236,"endTime":745.728,"body":"is the world's most bankable"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":741.236,"endTime":745.728,"body":"inverter brand and is America's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":745.803,"endTime":750.146,"body":"number one choice for solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":745.803,"endTime":750.146,"body":"plants, now offering solutions"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":750.221,"endTime":754.8629999999999,"body":"for commercial utility ESS and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":750.221,"endTime":754.8629999999999,"body":"Balance of System Requirements."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":754.938,"endTime":759.506,"body":"Go to chintpowersystems.com or"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":754.938,"endTime":759.506,"body":"call 855-584-7168, to find out"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":759.581,"endTime":763.9979999999999,"body":"more. I guess I'm I'm curious."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":759.581,"endTime":763.9979999999999,"body":"Zak like, what you tell your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":764.073,"endTime":768.266,"body":"clients, if you're a solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":764.073,"endTime":768.266,"body":"technology company, and let's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":768.341,"endTime":772.385,"body":"say you're you're very"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":768.341,"endTime":772.385,"body":"entrenched in the US market. Is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":772.4599999999999,"endTime":777.102,"body":"this a time to diversify into"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":772.4599999999999,"endTime":777.102,"body":"other markets geographically? Or"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":777.177,"endTime":781.52,"body":"do you think that technology"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":777.177,"endTime":781.52,"body":"companies don't have to worry"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":781.595,"endTime":786.312,"body":"too much about it, they can just"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":781.595,"endTime":786.312,"body":"double down on the US, because"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":786.387,"endTime":790.5799999999999,"body":"this is just kind of going to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":786.387,"endTime":790.5799999999999,"body":"blow over, and people will"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":790.655,"endTime":794.9979999999999,"body":"realize, look, we need more grid"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":790.655,"endTime":794.9979999999999,"body":"power and wind, solar and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":795.072,"endTime":799.7149999999999,"body":"batteries are the answer. That's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":795.072,"endTime":799.7149999999999,"body":"the most fiscally responsible"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":799.79,"endTime":804.357,"body":"thing for anybody to do, and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":799.79,"endTime":804.357,"body":"it's just going to happen, which"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":804.432,"endTime":809.0,"body":"is kind of my assessment. But"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":804.432,"endTime":809.0,"body":"I'm just curious, yeah, what do"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":809.074,"endTime":813.567,"body":"you what are you advising your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":809.074,"endTime":813.567,"body":"clients? Who are going, Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":813.6419999999999,"endTime":817.8349999999999,"body":"things are going to be bumpy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":813.6419999999999,"endTime":817.8349999999999,"body":"here in the US for the next"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":817.91,"endTime":822.552,"body":"couple of years. And that is,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":817.91,"endTime":822.552,"body":"you know, it is only a couple of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":822.627,"endTime":827.27,"body":"years, probably right. And then"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":822.627,"endTime":827.27,"body":"some other administration will"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":827.3439999999999,"endTime":831.687,"body":"be in DC, and things will"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":827.3439999999999,"endTime":831.687,"body":"change. But in the near term, if"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":831.762,"endTime":836.48,"body":"you're a manufacturer of solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":831.762,"endTime":836.48,"body":"technology, what is your advice?"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":837.62,"endTime":840.68,"body":"Yeah, so just to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":837.62,"endTime":840.68,"body":"your last point, you know, look"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":841.6999999999999,"endTime":844.04,"body":"two years ahead if there's a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":841.6999999999999,"endTime":844.04,"body":"change in government or what"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":844.04,"endTime":847.04,"body":"have you the reality is, you see"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":844.04,"endTime":847.04,"body":"it right now, these big tech"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":847.04,"endTime":851.38,"body":"companies are signing massive"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":847.04,"endTime":851.38,"body":"contracts to get more electrons"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":851.38,"endTime":854.0799999999999,"body":"on the grid. They just are, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":851.38,"endTime":854.0799999999999,"body":"it's renewables, right? So"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":854.38,"endTime":860.02,"body":"reality hits politicians in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":854.38,"endTime":860.02,"body":"face much less quickly than it"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":860.02,"endTime":863.1999999999999,"body":"does corporate and the reality"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":860.02,"endTime":863.1999999999999,"body":"is the corporates see that they"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":863.1999999999999,"endTime":866.14,"body":"have an insatiable appetite"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":863.1999999999999,"endTime":866.14,"body":"right now for energy,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":866.14,"endTime":872.28,"body":"electricity and power, and so"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":866.14,"endTime":872.28,"body":"there's going to be a lot of a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":872.28,"endTime":876.12,"body":"lot of demand for new energy and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":872.28,"endTime":876.12,"body":"renewables is the quickest. Is"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":876.12,"endTime":878.9399999999999,"body":"the fastest way to do that and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":876.12,"endTime":878.9399999999999,"body":"meet that need. Okay, let's take"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":878.9399999999999,"endTime":881.1,"body":"a step back here in terms of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":878.9399999999999,"endTime":881.1,"body":"what we're counseling our"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":881.1,"endTime":883.3199999999999,"body":"clients. And first of all, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":881.1,"endTime":883.3199999999999,"body":"know, we're not management"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":883.3199999999999,"endTime":886.1999999999999,"body":"consultants, so clients don't"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":883.3199999999999,"endTime":886.1999999999999,"body":"ask us, should we go global?"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":886.3199999999999,"endTime":889.0799999999999,"body":"Should we stay domestic? I have"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":886.3199999999999,"endTime":889.0799999999999,"body":"my opinions on that, but I don't"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":889.0799999999999,"endTime":891.62,"body":"really get paid to give that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":889.0799999999999,"endTime":891.62,"body":"advice. What they are asking us,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":891.62,"endTime":894.74,"body":"is this is our business. These"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":891.62,"endTime":894.74,"body":"are the headwinds. How do we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":894.74,"endTime":899.0,"body":"talk about it now? And how do we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":894.74,"endTime":899.0,"body":"talk about it with employees,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":899.12,"endTime":902.24,"body":"who, most of them choose to work"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":899.12,"endTime":902.24,"body":"with us. And I'm not talking"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":902.24,"endTime":904.4,"body":"about just Solar Tech, I'm"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":902.24,"endTime":904.4,"body":"talking about fortune, 100"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":904.8199999999999,"endTime":907.1,"body":"companies that we work with,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":904.8199999999999,"endTime":907.1,"body":"right? How do we talk about"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":907.1,"endTime":910.88,"body":"climate sustainability, clean"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":907.1,"endTime":910.88,"body":"tech, renewables to all of our"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":910.88,"endTime":913.8399999999999,"body":"different stakeholders in this"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":910.88,"endTime":913.8399999999999,"body":"environment. So it's employees,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":913.8399999999999,"endTime":918.8199999999999,"body":"it's customers, right? It's the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":913.8399999999999,"endTime":918.8199999999999,"body":"public markets, it's private"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":918.8199999999999,"endTime":921.52,"body":"markets, to the venture capital"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":918.8199999999999,"endTime":921.52,"body":"community. How do we talk about"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":921.52,"endTime":925.54,"body":"this stuff? So for us, you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":921.52,"endTime":925.54,"body":"there's a number of things."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":925.54,"endTime":928.78,"body":"Number one, let's try to align"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":925.54,"endTime":928.78,"body":"with this administration and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":928.78,"endTime":931.8399999999999,"body":"their priorities, right? Because"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":928.78,"endTime":931.8399999999999,"body":"ultimately, we can beat our head"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":931.8399999999999,"endTime":934.3199999999999,"body":"against the wall about this"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":931.8399999999999,"endTime":934.3199999999999,"body":"administration. This is the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":934.3199999999999,"endTime":937.26,"body":"reality, right? This bill got"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":934.3199999999999,"endTime":937.26,"body":"passed. This is policy."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":937.68,"endTime":940.68,"body":"Ultimately, economics is policy."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":937.68,"endTime":940.68,"body":"Is economics really the other"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":940.68,"endTime":942.8399999999999,"body":"way around? So this is what"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":940.68,"endTime":942.8399999999999,"body":"we're facing. And the Trump"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":942.8399999999999,"endTime":945.48,"body":"administration has made very,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":942.8399999999999,"endTime":945.48,"body":"very clear that there's three"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":945.48,"endTime":948.72,"body":"pillars that they look at,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":945.48,"endTime":948.72,"body":"right, whether or not"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":948.72,"endTime":951.3199999999999,"body":"something's going to make"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":948.72,"endTime":951.3199999999999,"body":"America stronger, right? Whether"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":951.3199999999999,"endTime":954.14,"body":"it's gonna make America more"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":951.3199999999999,"endTime":954.14,"body":"secure and whether it's gonna"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":954.14,"endTime":957.1999999999999,"body":"make America more prosperous."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":954.14,"endTime":957.1999999999999,"body":"And you know, we could break"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":957.1999999999999,"endTime":959.42,"body":"those three down. I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":957.1999999999999,"endTime":959.42,"body":"there's a really good argument"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":959.42,"endTime":961.76,"body":"to be made for climate it makes"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":959.42,"endTime":961.76,"body":"us more secure around"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":961.76,"endTime":964.88,"body":"resiliency. It makes us"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":961.76,"endTime":964.88,"body":"stronger. The more energy we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":964.88,"endTime":967.6999999999999,"body":"have domestically, the less we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":964.88,"endTime":967.6999999999999,"body":"have to import some geopolitical"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":967.6999999999999,"endTime":970.22,"body":"risk. It makes us stronger."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":967.6999999999999,"endTime":970.22,"body":"There prosperity, of course,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":970.22,"endTime":975.04,"body":"jobs and returns on investment,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":970.22,"endTime":975.04,"body":"being able to power the AI"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":975.04,"endTime":977.74,"body":"revolution, right? So we can"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":975.04,"endTime":977.74,"body":"really align with those three"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":977.74,"endTime":980.92,"body":"pillars of administration in a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":977.74,"endTime":980.92,"body":"way that's not cynical, not"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":980.92,"endTime":984.76,"body":"disingenuous, it's real. And"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":980.92,"endTime":984.76,"body":"hopefully that gets, you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":984.76,"endTime":987.9399999999999,"body":"gets momentum. There's also, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":984.76,"endTime":987.9399999999999,"body":"mean, you know this, Tim, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":987.9399999999999,"endTime":990.28,"body":"think all of our listeners know"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":987.9399999999999,"endTime":990.28,"body":"this. There's multiple value"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":990.28,"endTime":992.9399999999999,"body":"propositions when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":990.28,"endTime":992.9399999999999,"body":"climate sustainability, right?"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":992.9399999999999,"endTime":997.0799999999999,"body":"And I think many of us who"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":992.9399999999999,"endTime":997.0799999999999,"body":"joined in this industry have a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":997.3199999999999,"endTime":1000.02,"body":"redemptive perspective on it,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":997.3199999999999,"endTime":1000.02,"body":"right? So it's going to we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1000.02,"endTime":1002.3,"body":"really do believe it's going to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1000.02,"endTime":1002.3,"body":"save the planet. We really do"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1002.3,"endTime":1005.18,"body":"believe there's a cataclysmic"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1002.3,"endTime":1005.18,"body":"challenge to our ability to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1005.18,"endTime":1008.0,"body":"survive. But let's put that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1005.18,"endTime":1008.0,"body":"aside, because clearly, in this"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1008.0,"endTime":1011.26,"body":"environment, that does not seem"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1008.0,"endTime":1011.26,"body":"to do the trick. That's been"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1011.26,"endTime":1015.04,"body":"obviously politicized. And"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1011.26,"endTime":1015.04,"body":"people think that when someone"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1015.04,"endTime":1019.0,"body":"talks about climate change and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1015.04,"endTime":1019.0,"body":"disasters and saving the planet,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1019.12,"endTime":1021.52,"body":"ultimately, that's an"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1019.12,"endTime":1021.52,"body":"ideological perspective and a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1021.52,"endTime":1023.86,"body":"factual one, so they're not"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1021.52,"endTime":1023.86,"body":"interested in that. But there"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1023.86,"endTime":1026.32,"body":"are multiple value propositions,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1023.86,"endTime":1026.32,"body":"right? And we talked about"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1026.32,"endTime":1029.6200000000001,"body":"energy abundance being one,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1026.32,"endTime":1029.6200000000001,"body":"right? 96% of new generation"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1029.6200000000001,"endTime":1033.3600000000001,"body":"April was renewables. We need"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1029.6200000000001,"endTime":1033.3600000000001,"body":"electrons on the grid. We've got"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1033.3600000000001,"endTime":1037.6200000000001,"body":"to talk about that. We've had"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1033.3600000000001,"endTime":1037.6200000000001,"body":"this week wildfire. You know, we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1037.6200000000001,"endTime":1040.8600000000001,"body":"had the flash flooding in Texas,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1037.6200000000001,"endTime":1040.8600000000001,"body":"right? We have wildfires in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1040.8600000000001,"endTime":1044.7,"body":"Europe. We have, you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1040.8600000000001,"endTime":1044.7,"body":"extreme heat in Europe right"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1044.7,"endTime":1047.88,"body":"now. In fact, I think there's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1044.7,"endTime":1047.88,"body":"some emergency regulatory"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1047.88,"endTime":1050.52,"body":"discussions in Europe right now"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1047.88,"endTime":1050.52,"body":"because of what's happening, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1050.52,"endTime":1053.96,"body":"think, in Catalonia. So there's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1050.52,"endTime":1053.96,"body":"and again, it's not about saving"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1053.96,"endTime":1057.2,"body":"the planet. It's how do we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1053.96,"endTime":1057.2,"body":"everybody wants to avoid these"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1057.2,"endTime":1059.9,"body":"types of extreme weather events,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1057.2,"endTime":1059.9,"body":"and to the extent that climate"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1059.9,"endTime":1062.42,"body":"tech and sustainability tech can"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1059.9,"endTime":1062.42,"body":"help with that, there's more"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1062.42,"endTime":1064.88,"body":"resilience to supply chains,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1062.42,"endTime":1064.88,"body":"right? That's another value"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1064.88,"endTime":1068.54,"body":"prop. The economic returns are,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1064.88,"endTime":1068.54,"body":"you know, another value prop."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1068.54,"endTime":1072.22,"body":"And, of course, jobs. And as I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1068.54,"endTime":1072.22,"body":"mentioned before, the economics"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1072.28,"endTime":1076.3,"body":"of it, ultimately, I think even"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1072.28,"endTime":1076.3,"body":"it's going to be borne out very,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1076.3,"endTime":1080.08,"body":"very soon, solar and wind,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1076.3,"endTime":1080.08,"body":"renewables, coupled with"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1080.08,"endTime":1082.78,"body":"battery, they are going to be"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1080.08,"endTime":1082.78,"body":"able to compete in the market,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1082.84,"endTime":1085.42,"body":"even without these subsidies,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1082.84,"endTime":1085.42,"body":"because laws of supply and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1085.42,"endTime":1088.78,"body":"demand are going to put a ton of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1085.42,"endTime":1088.78,"body":"pressure, upward pressure on"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1088.78,"endTime":1091.98,"body":"prices. So even without these"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1088.78,"endTime":1091.98,"body":"subsidies, I think solar and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1091.98,"endTime":1093.0,"body":"wind will be able to make"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1093.3,"endTime":1095.3999999999999,"body":"it. Yeah, I mean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1093.3,"endTime":1095.3999999999999,"body":"energy prices are going to go"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1095.3999999999999,"endTime":1099.6,"body":"up, right there. Is there. There"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1095.3999999999999,"endTime":1099.6,"body":"is a lot of demand for energy,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1099.96,"endTime":1104.8799999999999,"body":"and if supply is level and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1099.96,"endTime":1104.8799999999999,"body":"demand goes up, then price will"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1104.8799999999999,"endTime":1109.02,"body":"go up. And that does make solar"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1104.8799999999999,"endTime":1109.02,"body":"wind batteries pencil better."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1109.44,"endTime":1114.26,"body":"Let's talk about sustainability,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1109.44,"endTime":1114.26,"body":"though, I always tell my clients"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1114.68,"endTime":1118.46,"body":"when I'm talking to a facility"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1114.68,"endTime":1118.46,"body":"owner, I never lead with"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1118.46,"endTime":1121.6399999999999,"body":"sustainability. I always lead"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1118.46,"endTime":1121.6399999999999,"body":"with savings that they could"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1122.12,"endTime":1126.3799999999999,"body":"benefit from by going solar or"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1122.12,"endTime":1126.3799999999999,"body":"participating in community"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1126.3799999999999,"endTime":1132.58,"body":"solar. And I'm just curious you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1126.3799999999999,"endTime":1132.58,"body":"obviously have embraced this"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1132.8799999999999,"endTime":1138.46,"body":"paradigm that humanity has an"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1132.8799999999999,"endTime":1138.46,"body":"opportunity here to save our own"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1138.46,"endTime":1142.24,"body":"butts. The earth is going to be"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1138.46,"endTime":1142.24,"body":"here one way or the other, no"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1142.24,"endTime":1146.68,"body":"matter what we do, pretty much."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1142.24,"endTime":1146.68,"body":"And the question is, can we hold"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1146.68,"endTime":1150.6399999999999,"body":"on to the good life that we have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1146.68,"endTime":1150.6399999999999,"body":"in any semblance of what we have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1150.6399999999999,"endTime":1156.24,"body":"today, like we have an amazingly"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1150.6399999999999,"endTime":1156.24,"body":"generous life, and we have a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1156.24,"endTime":1161.22,"body":"great opportunity to lean in and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1156.24,"endTime":1161.22,"body":"take the inventions that we've"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1161.22,"endTime":1166.62,"body":"made and deploy them at scale."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1161.22,"endTime":1166.62,"body":"And we also need to do other"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1166.62,"endTime":1170.22,"body":"things. Okay, there is a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1166.62,"endTime":1170.22,"body":"legacy carbon in the atmosphere."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1170.22,"endTime":1174.3799999999999,"body":"The energy transition is, is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1170.22,"endTime":1174.3799999999999,"body":"1/20 of that greater problem,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1174.3799999999999,"endTime":1178.58,"body":"but it's a significant piece of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1174.3799999999999,"endTime":1178.58,"body":"the problem. But what is your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1178.58,"endTime":1183.56,"body":"philosophy about this? And how"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1178.58,"endTime":1183.56,"body":"do you, how do you try to guide"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1183.56,"endTime":1188.42,"body":"others towards better"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1183.56,"endTime":1188.42,"body":"communication and PR about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1188.42,"endTime":1189.32,"body":"sustainability?"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1190.46,"endTime":1192.94,"body":"Yeah, so, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1190.46,"endTime":1192.94,"body":"there's a lot of things to break"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1192.94,"endTime":1195.8799999999999,"body":"down there. So I don't know that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1192.94,"endTime":1195.8799999999999,"body":"we've ever positioned the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1195.8799999999999,"endTime":1200.92,"body":"company as a do gooder, right?"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1195.8799999999999,"endTime":1200.92,"body":"PR firm, we, you know, we've"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1200.92,"endTime":1206.1399999999999,"body":"typically really been around the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1200.92,"endTime":1206.1399999999999,"body":"technology of the market, of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1206.1399999999999,"endTime":1211.08,"body":"opportunity in climate, clean"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1206.1399999999999,"endTime":1211.08,"body":"tech, sustainability, energy"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1211.08,"endTime":1213.3,"body":"transition, whatever the you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1211.08,"endTime":1213.3,"body":"know, whatever the term of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1213.3,"endTime":1217.8,"body":"day was, and the reason for that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1213.3,"endTime":1217.8,"body":"is, you know, I'm an"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1217.8,"endTime":1221.1,"body":"incrementalist, right? So by"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1217.8,"endTime":1221.1,"body":"nature, I'm an incrementalist."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1221.28,"endTime":1224.7,"body":"Candidly, I'm a conservative,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1221.28,"endTime":1224.7,"body":"small c, right? For the same"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1224.7,"endTime":1227.52,"body":"reason, I think change happens"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1224.7,"endTime":1227.52,"body":"slowly. I think radical change"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1227.52,"endTime":1230.22,"body":"typically backfires, which maybe"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1227.52,"endTime":1230.22,"body":"we're experiencing right now,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1230.22,"endTime":1235.6399999999999,"body":"candidly. And you know what I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1230.22,"endTime":1235.6399999999999,"body":"found about the climate and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1235.6399999999999,"endTime":1238.34,"body":"sustainability community, and I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1235.6399999999999,"endTime":1238.34,"body":"thought, you know more about the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1238.34,"endTime":1241.46,"body":"NGOs and some of those, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1238.34,"endTime":1241.46,"body":"know, latter advocates, is that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1241.46,"endTime":1244.28,"body":"they're not incrementalists, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1241.46,"endTime":1244.28,"body":"know? They really are looking"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1244.28,"endTime":1248.0,"body":"for extreme change right away."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1244.28,"endTime":1248.0,"body":"And I've never believed in that."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1248.0,"endTime":1251.56,"body":"I think that it's as I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1248.0,"endTime":1251.56,"body":"before. There isn't an"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1251.86,"endTime":1255.58,"body":"inexorable transition to a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1251.86,"endTime":1255.58,"body":"cleaner world, a world where"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1255.58,"endTime":1258.6399999999999,"body":"companies are transitioning to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1255.58,"endTime":1258.6399999999999,"body":"climate and sustainability"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1258.6399999999999,"endTime":1261.22,"body":"solutions. And we see that,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1258.6399999999999,"endTime":1261.22,"body":"right? We call it the age of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1261.22,"endTime":1265.18,"body":"adoption. At our agency, we're"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1261.22,"endTime":1265.18,"body":"at a time and kind of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1265.18,"endTime":1267.28,"body":"history of climate"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1265.18,"endTime":1267.28,"body":"sustainability, over the last"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1267.28,"endTime":1269.68,"body":"three, four years, where"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1267.28,"endTime":1269.68,"body":"companies of all shapes and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1269.68,"endTime":1273.24,"body":"sizes, industry agnostic, are"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1269.68,"endTime":1273.24,"body":"rapidly adopting Climate"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1273.24,"endTime":1276.42,"body":"Solutions just is the that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1273.24,"endTime":1276.42,"body":"just the case, and that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1276.48,"endTime":1280.1399999999999,"body":"incremental, right? They didn't"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1276.48,"endTime":1280.1399999999999,"body":"one day stop with fossil fuels,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1280.2,"endTime":1283.62,"body":"grind the economy to a halt and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1280.2,"endTime":1283.62,"body":"start renewables. It's just not,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1283.62,"endTime":1286.98,"body":"ultimately, that's not feasible."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1283.62,"endTime":1286.98,"body":"And I think a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1338.67,"endTime":1342.39,"body":"backlash we're experiencing"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1338.67,"endTime":1342.39,"body":"right now is because of that."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1342.45,"endTime":1345.17,"body":"And again, right? So radical"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1342.45,"endTime":1345.17,"body":"change very often gets a radical"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1345.17,"endTime":1347.69,"body":"backlash, so we see it as"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1345.17,"endTime":1347.69,"body":"incremental, and that's really"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1347.69,"endTime":1350.57,"body":"been the guiding principle of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1347.69,"endTime":1350.57,"body":"our agency. We won't work with"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1350.8700000000001,"endTime":1353.57,"body":"fossil fuel companies. That's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1350.8700000000001,"endTime":1353.57,"body":"just not a that's not something"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1353.57,"endTime":1356.99,"body":"we'll do. We see that as"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1353.57,"endTime":1356.99,"body":"regressive. Won't do it. But at"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1356.99,"endTime":1361.43,"body":"the same time, we feel that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1356.99,"endTime":1361.43,"body":"there's a place for fossil"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1361.43,"endTime":1364.8700000000001,"body":"fuels, but that's the reality"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1361.43,"endTime":1364.8700000000001,"body":"right now. Let's be smart about"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1364.8700000000001,"endTime":1369.19,"body":"the transition. Let's keep going"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1364.8700000000001,"endTime":1369.19,"body":"forward. The metaphor I love,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1369.19,"endTime":1372.8500000000001,"body":"it's not mine, but I always"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1369.19,"endTime":1372.8500000000001,"body":"repeat it is incrementally march"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1372.8500000000001,"endTime":1375.91,"body":"down that football field, and as"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1372.8500000000001,"endTime":1375.91,"body":"long as when you take a breath"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1375.91,"endTime":1379.27,"body":"and turn around, you're closer"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1375.91,"endTime":1379.27,"body":"to the next goal post, that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1379.27,"endTime":1382.33,"body":"success, and that's how we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1379.27,"endTime":1382.33,"body":"counsel our clients, that's what"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1382.33,"endTime":1384.75,"body":"kind of a guides our business."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1382.33,"endTime":1384.75,"body":"That's what, what's been our"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1384.75,"endTime":1385.77,"body":"mission all these years."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1390.27,"endTime":1394.59,"body":"So the energy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1390.27,"endTime":1394.59,"body":"transition is happening, and you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1394.59,"endTime":1398.67,"body":"have grabbed onto this, this"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1394.59,"endTime":1398.67,"body":"expression, the age of adoption."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1399.21,"endTime":1403.49,"body":"So let's, let's talk a little"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1399.21,"endTime":1403.49,"body":"more about that. We could"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1403.49,"endTime":1407.63,"body":"completely net zero the economy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1403.49,"endTime":1407.63,"body":"with the technology that we"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1407.63,"endTime":1411.23,"body":"already have, and that includes"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1407.63,"endTime":1411.23,"body":"wind, solar, batteries and heat"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1411.23,"endTime":1415.73,"body":"pumps and geothermal, etc, etc,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1411.23,"endTime":1415.73,"body":"etc, electrification of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1415.73,"endTime":1422.03,"body":"transportation. And as thing, as"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1415.73,"endTime":1422.03,"body":"technologies become adopted,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1422.03,"endTime":1424.27,"body":"there's this thing called the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1422.03,"endTime":1424.27,"body":"cost adoption curve, and the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1424.27,"endTime":1427.21,"body":"technologies become more"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1424.27,"endTime":1427.21,"body":"affordable, and that is a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1427.21,"endTime":1431.41,"body":"positive feedback loop. And then"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1427.21,"endTime":1431.41,"body":"when we went from horse and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1431.41,"endTime":1434.59,"body":"buggy to internal combustion"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1431.41,"endTime":1434.59,"body":"engine, right? It had nothing to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1434.59,"endTime":1439.03,"body":"do with people's dislike of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1434.59,"endTime":1439.03,"body":"horses. It had to do with their"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1439.03,"endTime":1443.8500000000001,"body":"ability to go 50 miles an hour"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1439.03,"endTime":1443.8500000000001,"body":"for three hours, which they"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1443.8500000000001,"endTime":1445.17,"body":"couldn't do on a horse,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1445.23,"endTime":1447.39,"body":"or horsepower,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1445.23,"endTime":1447.39,"body":"literally and figuratively,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1447.63,"endTime":1448.59,"body":"right? More horsepower."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1448.59,"endTime":1451.47,"body":"It was just more"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1448.59,"endTime":1451.47,"body":"economical and more convenient."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1451.53,"endTime":1455.13,"body":"And that switch happened at"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1451.53,"endTime":1455.13,"body":"first gradually, but then"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1455.13,"endTime":1458.73,"body":"there's this there. There is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1455.13,"endTime":1458.73,"body":"this acceleration that that"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1458.73,"endTime":1463.3700000000001,"body":"happens. And we are in a period"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1458.73,"endTime":1463.3700000000001,"body":"globally of acceleration, right?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1463.3700000000001,"endTime":1466.73,"body":"We are going vertical, globally."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1463.3700000000001,"endTime":1466.73,"body":"Now in the US we're going to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1466.79,"endTime":1469.07,"body":"we're going to see a little"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1466.79,"endTime":1469.07,"body":"tailing off, and then we'll come"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1469.07,"endTime":1474.29,"body":"back again. But I'm just"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1469.07,"endTime":1474.29,"body":"curious, I guess, how you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1474.53,"endTime":1478.3700000000001,"body":"communicate this to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1474.53,"endTime":1478.3700000000001,"body":"stakeholders, like like"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1478.79,"endTime":1482.83,"body":"employees? You talk about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1478.79,"endTime":1482.83,"body":"incremental change, but"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1482.83,"endTime":1487.39,"body":"incremental change does lead to,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1482.83,"endTime":1487.39,"body":"ultimately, a radical"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1487.39,"endTime":1490.75,"body":"transformation, like the economy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1487.39,"endTime":1490.75,"body":"is going to be radically"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1490.75,"endTime":1496.57,"body":"different in 30 years. So I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1490.75,"endTime":1496.57,"body":"don't know. I'm struggling to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1496.57,"endTime":1500.65,"body":"put my finger on this exactly,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1496.57,"endTime":1500.65,"body":"but that is a hard to grasp"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1500.65,"endTime":1501.8500000000001,"body":"phenomenon, I guess."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1502.81,"endTime":1505.65,"body":"Yeah, I don't see"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1502.81,"endTime":1505.65,"body":"that as a tension. I see that as"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1505.65,"endTime":1509.25,"body":"inevitable. I mean, I totally"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1505.65,"endTime":1509.25,"body":"agree with you. I totally agree."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1509.31,"endTime":1513.63,"body":"But the question is, ultimately,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1509.31,"endTime":1513.63,"body":"how do you stop the roller"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1513.63,"endTime":1517.77,"body":"coaster? How do you get the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1513.63,"endTime":1517.77,"body":"transition to continue in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1517.77,"endTime":1521.31,"body":"right direction? My perspective"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1517.77,"endTime":1521.31,"body":"is, and this has been true in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1521.31,"endTime":1524.99,"body":"history, it's always going to be"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1521.31,"endTime":1524.99,"body":"incremental change. That's true"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1524.99,"endTime":1527.57,"body":"in political environments."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1524.99,"endTime":1527.57,"body":"That's true in social justice,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1527.57,"endTime":1531.1100000000001,"body":"that's true really everywhere."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1527.57,"endTime":1531.1100000000001,"body":"Just the second you do something"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1531.17,"endTime":1534.77,"body":"extreme or more radical, you're"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1531.17,"endTime":1534.77,"body":"inviting a backlash, and that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1534.77,"endTime":1536.8700000000001,"body":"ultimately what we're"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1534.77,"endTime":1536.8700000000001,"body":"experiencing right now in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1536.8700000000001,"endTime":1539.21,"body":"US. But that's been true"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1536.8700000000001,"endTime":1539.21,"body":"throughout history. What I will"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1539.21,"endTime":1542.21,"body":"say, you talk about our"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1539.21,"endTime":1542.21,"body":"employees, and you know, we call"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1542.21,"endTime":1546.8500000000001,"body":"them fellow ants in our in our"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1542.21,"endTime":1546.8500000000001,"body":"agency. But ultimately, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1546.91,"endTime":1549.8500000000001,"body":"big believer. People say to me,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1546.91,"endTime":1549.8500000000001,"body":"okay, well, yeah, you're into"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1549.8500000000001,"endTime":1552.19,"body":"climate sustainability, but"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1549.8500000000001,"endTime":1552.19,"body":"you're in comps. You know? Why"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1552.19,"endTime":1554.95,"body":"aren't you out there installing"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1552.19,"endTime":1554.95,"body":"solar panels? Want you out there"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1555.43,"endTime":1560.17,"body":"innovating technologies and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1555.43,"endTime":1560.17,"body":"ultimately, like comms and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1560.17,"endTime":1563.73,"body":"marketing have a huge role to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1560.17,"endTime":1563.73,"body":"play. Narratives have a huge"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1563.73,"endTime":1567.45,"body":"role to play. Every single great"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1563.73,"endTime":1567.45,"body":"movement in history of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1567.45,"endTime":1572.49,"body":"world, right religions, social"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1567.45,"endTime":1572.49,"body":"justice movements, what have"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1572.49,"endTime":1577.71,"body":"you? Political movements have"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1572.49,"endTime":1577.71,"body":"all been initiated and have all"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1577.71,"endTime":1580.53,"body":"been sustained and grown through"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1577.71,"endTime":1580.53,"body":"storytelling. That's just the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1580.53,"endTime":1584.39,"body":"reality. And you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1580.53,"endTime":1584.39,"body":"Jesus Moses and Muhammad, they"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1584.39,"endTime":1587.09,"body":"were amazing storytellers,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1584.39,"endTime":1587.09,"body":"right? The Bible, Quran. These"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1587.09,"endTime":1591.89,"body":"are great, great media platforms"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1587.09,"endTime":1591.89,"body":"in order to convince people, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1592.19,"endTime":1595.01,"body":"that's what, ultimately, I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1592.19,"endTime":1595.01,"body":"what we do as comms and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1595.01,"endTime":1597.77,"body":"marketing people, I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1595.01,"endTime":1597.77,"body":"there's, I think it's redemptive"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1597.83,"endTime":1601.3700000000001,"body":"to me. It's playing a huge role"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1597.83,"endTime":1601.3700000000001,"body":"in this. And I think the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1601.3700000000001,"endTime":1604.99,"body":"challenge is. Magnified and made"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1601.3700000000001,"endTime":1604.99,"body":"a lot more difficult because of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1604.99,"endTime":1607.51,"body":"the environment we're in today,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1604.99,"endTime":1607.51,"body":"the media environment. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1607.51,"endTime":1612.31,"body":"we live in a post truth, post"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1607.51,"endTime":1612.31,"body":"data world that's riven by"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1612.31,"endTime":1616.8700000000001,"body":"conspiracy theories, and it"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1612.31,"endTime":1616.8700000000001,"body":"makes it really, really hard to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1616.8700000000001,"endTime":1619.75,"body":"tell a story that we think is"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1616.8700000000001,"endTime":1619.75,"body":"factual, that we think is real,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1619.75,"endTime":1621.6100000000001,"body":"right? So what do you do? And to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1619.75,"endTime":1621.6100000000001,"body":"me, again, that's where"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1621.6100000000001,"endTime":1625.1100000000001,"body":"storytelling comes in, because"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1621.6100000000001,"endTime":1625.1100000000001,"body":"storytelling has to be a motive,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1625.1100000000001,"endTime":1627.81,"body":"right? It has to connect with"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1625.1100000000001,"endTime":1627.81,"body":"people. Storytelling has to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1627.81,"endTime":1631.47,"body":"ultimately involve and tell"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1627.81,"endTime":1631.47,"body":"stories about real people, real"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1631.47,"endTime":1636.81,"body":"encounters, not just anecdotal,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1631.47,"endTime":1636.81,"body":"but in a sustained way. And I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1636.81,"endTime":1639.39,"body":"think that's what we're doing. I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1636.81,"endTime":1639.39,"body":"think that's what the people"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1639.39,"endTime":1642.15,"body":"that come to work for antenna"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1639.39,"endTime":1642.15,"body":"do. And we find it to be"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1642.15,"endTime":1646.13,"body":"gratifying. We find it to be"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1642.15,"endTime":1646.13,"body":"something that gets us excited"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1646.13,"endTime":1649.8500000000001,"body":"every day to come to work and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1646.13,"endTime":1649.8500000000001,"body":"work with companies that are"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1649.8500000000001,"endTime":1651.3500000000001,"body":"committed to this."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1652.67,"endTime":1657.1100000000001,"body":"What does it mean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1652.67,"endTime":1657.1100000000001,"body":"to be sustainable? In your mind,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1657.1100000000001,"endTime":1660.59,"body":"like, what is the heart of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1657.1100000000001,"endTime":1660.59,"body":"sustainability?"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1661.79,"endTime":1665.1100000000001,"body":"Yeah, so to me,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1661.79,"endTime":1665.1100000000001,"body":"it's ultimately, it's a company"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1665.17,"endTime":1669.43,"body":"that is deploying solutions"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1665.17,"endTime":1669.43,"body":"could be hardware, software,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1669.43,"endTime":1673.8700000000001,"body":"best practices, doesn't matter,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1669.43,"endTime":1673.8700000000001,"body":"that are in the service of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1673.8700000000001,"endTime":1680.77,"body":"making their companies more"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1673.8700000000001,"endTime":1680.77,"body":"climate sensitive period. That's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1680.77,"endTime":1683.6100000000001,"body":"it. That's how a company makes"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1680.77,"endTime":1683.6100000000001,"body":"them send out. I know there's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1683.6100000000001,"endTime":1686.67,"body":"ESG, which, by the way, from a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1683.6100000000001,"endTime":1686.67,"body":"comms perspective, not a word"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1686.67,"endTime":1689.13,"body":"one should use anymore in this"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1686.67,"endTime":1689.13,"body":"environment. It's third rail,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1689.13,"endTime":1693.15,"body":"right? But ultimately, if a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1689.13,"endTime":1693.15,"body":"company is doing that in a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1693.15,"endTime":1696.15,"body":"meaningful way, like real"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1693.15,"endTime":1696.15,"body":"implementations, integrating"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1696.15,"endTime":1699.51,"body":"into full operations, right?"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1696.15,"endTime":1699.51,"body":"Supply chains, it becomes part"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1699.51,"endTime":1702.65,"body":"and parcel of the company,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1699.51,"endTime":1702.65,"body":"embedded in the roots of a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1702.65,"endTime":1706.55,"body":"company that, to me, is a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1702.65,"endTime":1706.55,"body":"sustainable company. We call it"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1706.55,"endTime":1709.67,"body":"also a conscious brand. I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1706.55,"endTime":1709.67,"body":"in business schools now call it"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1709.67,"endTime":1713.21,"body":"responsible business. These are"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1709.67,"endTime":1713.21,"body":"things that companies have to do"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1713.21,"endTime":1716.45,"body":"now. I think ultimately, like if"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1713.21,"endTime":1716.45,"body":"you want to be an ongoing"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1716.45,"endTime":1719.63,"body":"concern as a business in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1716.45,"endTime":1719.63,"body":"next 1020 years, you have no"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1719.63,"endTime":1723.05,"body":"choice. But to me, that's what"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1719.63,"endTime":1723.05,"body":"sustainability is."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1723.05,"endTime":1727.81,"body":"So we have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1723.05,"endTime":1727.81,"body":"capitalism, which is very good."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1728.1100000000001,"endTime":1731.3500000000001,"body":"It is a system that is very good"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1728.1100000000001,"endTime":1731.3500000000001,"body":"at concentrating wealth and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1731.3500000000001,"endTime":1736.51,"body":"creating wealth. And I, you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1731.3500000000001,"endTime":1736.51,"body":"know, one of the questions I ask"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1736.51,"endTime":1740.59,"body":"myself, Keith is, if every"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1736.51,"endTime":1740.59,"body":"company in America became a B"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1740.59,"endTime":1745.23,"body":"Corp, right, where there's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1740.59,"endTime":1745.23,"body":"theoretically some higher"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1745.23,"endTime":1750.03,"body":"mission to the organization,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1745.23,"endTime":1750.03,"body":"other than just turning a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1750.03,"endTime":1757.41,"body":"profit. Would we solve the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1750.03,"endTime":1757.41,"body":"problem of climate chaos? And I"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1757.41,"endTime":1763.13,"body":"have to say, I don't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1757.41,"endTime":1763.13,"body":"believe so and but I do resonate"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1763.13,"endTime":1769.97,"body":"with your definition of okay,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1763.13,"endTime":1769.97,"body":"being climate sensitive. And so"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1769.97,"endTime":1774.1100000000001,"body":"I'm just curious. Like, if you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1769.97,"endTime":1774.1100000000001,"body":"look into the crystal ball and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1774.1100000000001,"endTime":1778.31,"body":"you're talking to your family"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1774.1100000000001,"endTime":1778.31,"body":"about 1020, 30 years into the"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1778.31,"endTime":1782.45,"body":"future, what is it that is going"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1778.31,"endTime":1782.45,"body":"to be different about our"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1782.45,"endTime":1786.79,"body":"economy? If there is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1782.45,"endTime":1786.79,"body":"some semblance of a modern"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1786.79,"endTime":1789.25,"body":"economy as we're that we're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1786.79,"endTime":1789.25,"body":"inventing."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1790.81,"endTime":1793.21,"body":"Yeah. So first of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1790.81,"endTime":1793.21,"body":"all, I agree with you. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1793.21,"endTime":1798.25,"body":"it's just not, it's just not"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1793.21,"endTime":1798.25,"body":"realistic for every company to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1798.25,"endTime":1800.53,"body":"be, B Corp, just not, not"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1798.25,"endTime":1800.53,"body":"realistic. And we can go,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1800.53,"endTime":1803.55,"body":"there's a lot of reasons for it,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1800.53,"endTime":1803.55,"body":"but ultimately, why has, and I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1803.55,"endTime":1806.73,"body":"believe capitalism in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1803.55,"endTime":1806.73,"body":"market, market economics have"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1806.73,"endTime":1810.03,"body":"worked, and it's pulled. You"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1806.73,"endTime":1810.03,"body":"know, in the history of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1810.03,"endTime":1814.59,"body":"world, standard of livings have"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1810.03,"endTime":1814.59,"body":"increased more than it ever had."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1814.71,"endTime":1817.3500000000001,"body":"More people have been pulled out"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1814.71,"endTime":1817.3500000000001,"body":"of poverty than ever in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1817.3500000000001,"endTime":1820.47,"body":"history of mankind, right? I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1817.3500000000001,"endTime":1820.47,"body":"mean China and India, the amount"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1820.47,"endTime":1823.31,"body":"of people have been pulled out"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1820.47,"endTime":1823.31,"body":"of poverty in the last 10 years"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1823.3700000000001,"endTime":1826.67,"body":"because of industrialization and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1823.3700000000001,"endTime":1826.67,"body":"opening up their economies, has"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1826.67,"endTime":1830.39,"body":"never been seen before. So it"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1826.67,"endTime":1830.39,"body":"works. The question is,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1830.51,"endTime":1835.01,"body":"ultimately, will climate and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1830.51,"endTime":1835.01,"body":"sustainability, will those"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1835.01,"endTime":1839.15,"body":"investments, will those best"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1835.01,"endTime":1839.15,"body":"practices? Does that align with"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1839.15,"endTime":1843.17,"body":"market economics? I think it"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1839.15,"endTime":1843.17,"body":"does. You mentioned before the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1843.17,"endTime":1847.03,"body":"economies of scale and how that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1843.17,"endTime":1847.03,"body":"that ultimately is a concept in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1847.03,"endTime":1850.27,"body":"market economics, right, and in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1847.03,"endTime":1850.27,"body":"capitalism and and ultimately, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1850.27,"endTime":1853.69,"body":"think the most successful"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1850.27,"endTime":1853.69,"body":"companies, which the assumption"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1853.69,"endTime":1856.8700000000001,"body":"of capitalism, is that those who"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1853.69,"endTime":1856.8700000000001,"body":"are running those companies want"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1856.8700000000001,"endTime":1860.77,"body":"to be the most successful. They"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1856.8700000000001,"endTime":1860.77,"body":"can only be that successful if"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1860.77,"endTime":1864.63,"body":"they are at this point, adapting"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1860.77,"endTime":1864.63,"body":"their businesses to become more"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1864.63,"endTime":1867.93,"body":"climate sensitive and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1864.63,"endTime":1867.93,"body":"sustainable full stop. I don't"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1867.93,"endTime":1871.41,"body":"think ultimately that there is."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1867.93,"endTime":1871.41,"body":"It's not a zero sum game. Let's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1871.41,"endTime":1875.07,"body":"put it that way, between either"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1871.41,"endTime":1875.07,"body":"we're a capitalist society or"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1875.07,"endTime":1877.77,"body":"we're going to transform the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1875.07,"endTime":1877.77,"body":"world to net zero. I don't think"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1877.77,"endTime":1881.25,"body":"it's a zero sum game. In fact, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1877.77,"endTime":1881.25,"body":"think it's something that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1881.31,"endTime":1883.49,"body":"ultimately they work hand in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1881.31,"endTime":1883.49,"body":"hand. So"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1883.49,"endTime":1887.15,"body":"you mentioned a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1883.49,"endTime":1887.15,"body":"frame earlier. You know, like"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1887.15,"endTime":1891.1100000000001,"body":"you said, ESG is out, right?"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1887.15,"endTime":1891.1100000000001,"body":"We're not talking about ESG. Was"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1891.1100000000001,"endTime":1894.65,"body":"it responsible business, or what"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1891.1100000000001,"endTime":1894.65,"body":"is the frame? What is a simple"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1894.65,"endTime":1899.8700000000001,"body":"frame for business that is"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1894.65,"endTime":1899.8700000000001,"body":"sensitive to sustainability,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":1899.8700000000001,"endTime":1901.3700000000001,"body":"without using the S word?"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1901.91,"endTime":1904.81,"body":"Yeah? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1901.91,"endTime":1904.81,"body":"responsible business, to me, is"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1904.81,"endTime":1908.23,"body":"probably, you know, if you, if"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1904.81,"endTime":1908.23,"body":"you're at a cocktail hour with"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1908.23,"endTime":1910.81,"body":"other comms people, that's,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1908.23,"endTime":1910.81,"body":"that's what being bandied about."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1912.13,"endTime":1915.91,"body":"So, yeah, I guess responsible"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1912.13,"endTime":1915.91,"body":"business, ESG, ultimately, to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1915.91,"endTime":1920.1100000000001,"body":"me, you know, it's interesting."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1915.91,"endTime":1920.1100000000001,"body":"I think people couple Deia or"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1920.1100000000001,"endTime":1923.55,"body":"dei with ESG, and both of them"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1920.1100000000001,"endTime":1923.55,"body":"being third rails. I actually"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1923.55,"endTime":1927.33,"body":"see them as different"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1923.55,"endTime":1927.33,"body":"challenges. I think that the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1928.1100000000001,"endTime":1933.51,"body":"current Zeitgeist when it comes"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1928.1100000000001,"endTime":1933.51,"body":"to dei is actually a culture war"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1933.51,"endTime":1936.69,"body":"against Dei. I think that people"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1933.51,"endTime":1936.69,"body":"think, well, if you break up dei"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1936.69,"endTime":1939.75,"body":"into its components, nobody"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1936.69,"endTime":1939.75,"body":"disagrees with that. I actually"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1939.81,"endTime":1942.03,"body":"think that's wrong. I think that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1939.81,"endTime":1942.03,"body":"plenty of people in this"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1942.03,"endTime":1945.59,"body":"administration, plenty of people"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1942.03,"endTime":1945.59,"body":"right now, from an ideological"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1945.59,"endTime":1948.05,"body":"perspective, might disagree with"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1945.59,"endTime":1948.05,"body":"all three, and that becomes a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1948.05,"endTime":1950.39,"body":"culture war that's very"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1948.05,"endTime":1950.39,"body":"difficult to combat with"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1950.39,"endTime":1955.67,"body":"language and comms. ESG is much"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1950.39,"endTime":1955.67,"body":"more of a political issue,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1955.97,"endTime":1959.45,"body":"right? And I think a lot of ESG"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1955.97,"endTime":1959.45,"body":"and a lot of the backlash"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1959.45,"endTime":1963.25,"body":"against the IRA comes from the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1959.45,"endTime":1963.25,"body":"fact that it was, it's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1963.3700000000001,"endTime":1966.79,"body":"associated with liberal"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1963.3700000000001,"endTime":1966.79,"body":"economics, associated with Biden"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1967.09,"endTime":1971.29,"body":"that becomes a political game."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1967.09,"endTime":1971.29,"body":"So again, ESG itself, as a term,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1971.29,"endTime":1973.69,"body":"as an acronym, should be stayed"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1971.29,"endTime":1973.69,"body":"away from but the component"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1973.69,"endTime":1978.79,"body":"parts, certainly the energy part"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1973.69,"endTime":1978.79,"body":"of ESG, I should say that to me,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1979.21,"endTime":1982.51,"body":"is something that is much easier"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1979.21,"endTime":1982.51,"body":"to deal with if it's if it's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1982.51,"endTime":1985.1100000000001,"body":"dealt with smartly and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1982.51,"endTime":1985.1100000000001,"body":"responsible businesses"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1985.1100000000001,"endTime":1987.81,"body":"understand, and this is also"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1985.1100000000001,"endTime":1987.81,"body":"conservative economics that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1987.81,"endTime":1991.3500000000001,"body":"evolved over the last 1015,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1987.81,"endTime":1991.3500000000001,"body":"years, that you're not just"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1991.3500000000001,"endTime":1993.57,"body":"responsible to the bottom line,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1991.3500000000001,"endTime":1993.57,"body":"but there's multiple"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1993.57,"endTime":1996.45,"body":"stakeholders who you're"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1993.57,"endTime":1996.45,"body":"responsible to. And corporate"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1996.45,"endTime":1998.8500000000001,"body":"America understands that, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1996.45,"endTime":1998.8500000000001,"body":"you're responsible the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1998.8500000000001,"endTime":2000.83,"body":"stakeholders, because"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":1998.8500000000001,"endTime":2000.83,"body":"ultimately, that's how you're"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2000.83,"endTime":2004.09,"body":"going to be responsible to the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2000.83,"endTime":2004.09,"body":"bottom line. And I think that, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2004.15,"endTime":2006.13,"body":"think that there's a lot to be"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2004.15,"endTime":2006.13,"body":"said there for where we are"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2006.13,"endTime":2006.55,"body":"right now."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2006.55,"endTime":2010.1680000000001,"body":"Hey guys, are you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2006.55,"endTime":2010.1680000000001,"body":"a residential solar installer"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2010.2450000000001,"endTime":2014.71,"body":"doing light commercial but"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2010.2450000000001,"endTime":2014.71,"body":"wanting to scale into large CNI"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2014.787,"endTime":2019.484,"body":"solar? I'm Tim Montague. I've"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2014.787,"endTime":2019.484,"body":"developed over 150 megawatts of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2019.561,"endTime":2023.949,"body":"commercial solar, and I've"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2019.561,"endTime":2023.949,"body":"solved the problem that you're"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2024.026,"endTime":2028.722,"body":"having you don't know what tools"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2024.026,"endTime":2028.722,"body":"and technologies you need in"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2028.799,"endTime":2033.5720000000001,"body":"order to successfully close 100"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2028.799,"endTime":2033.5720000000001,"body":"KW to megawatt scale projects."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2033.6490000000001,"endTime":2037.73,"body":"I've developed a commercial"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2033.6490000000001,"endTime":2037.73,"body":"solar accelerator to help"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2037.807,"endTime":2042.657,"body":"installers exactly like you just"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2037.807,"endTime":2042.657,"body":"go to cleanpowerhour.com click"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2042.734,"endTime":2047.353,"body":"on strategy and book a call"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2042.734,"endTime":2047.353,"body":"today. It's totally free with no"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2047.43,"endTime":2052.0499999999997,"body":"obligation. Thanks for being a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2047.43,"endTime":2052.0499999999997,"body":"listener. I really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2052.127,"endTime":2056.592,"body":"you listening to the pod, and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2052.127,"endTime":2056.592,"body":"I'm Tim Montague, let's grow"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2056.669,"endTime":2061.288,"body":"solar and storage. Go to clean"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2056.669,"endTime":2061.288,"body":"power hour and click strategy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2061.365,"endTime":2066.216,"body":"today. Thanks so much. So I have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2061.365,"endTime":2066.216,"body":"one hard question and one easy"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2066.293,"endTime":2071.22,"body":"question to close this out. The"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2066.293,"endTime":2071.22,"body":"hard question is, why do we as a"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2071.297,"endTime":2076.147,"body":"species struggle to care about"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2071.297,"endTime":2076.147,"body":"future generations? You know, on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2076.2239999999997,"endTime":2080.843,"body":"Maslow's hierarchy of needs,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2076.2239999999997,"endTime":2080.843,"body":"future generations rank towards"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2080.92,"endTime":2085.386,"body":"the bottom in modern society."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2080.92,"endTime":2085.386,"body":"There are cultures, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2085.4629999999997,"endTime":2089.62,"body":"where that's different,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2085.4629999999997,"endTime":2089.62,"body":"indigenous cultures. But let's"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2089.697,"endTime":2094.162,"body":"face it, in modern society,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2089.697,"endTime":2094.162,"body":"future generations rank fairly"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2094.239,"endTime":2098.859,"body":"low. And for us, in my opinion,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2094.239,"endTime":2098.859,"body":"for us to have a sustainable"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2098.9359999999997,"endTime":2103.7090000000003,"body":"future on Earth, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2098.9359999999997,"endTime":2103.7090000000003,"body":"have to care more. Do you have"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2103.786,"endTime":2106.25,"body":"any ideas about what that takes?"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2107.15,"endTime":2110.8700000000003,"body":"Yeah, so I'm one"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2107.15,"endTime":2110.8700000000003,"body":"of my side hobbies. Let's talk"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2110.8700000000003,"endTime":2114.23,"body":"about behavioral psychology. And"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2110.8700000000003,"endTime":2114.23,"body":"you know, so we're all played by"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2114.23,"endTime":2116.63,"body":"these heuristics. They call"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2114.23,"endTime":2116.63,"body":"them, right? So biases that we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2116.63,"endTime":2120.3500000000004,"body":"have just we've evolved to have"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2116.63,"endTime":2120.3500000000004,"body":"these, these neurological"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2120.77,"endTime":2123.73,"body":"biases. One of them, everybody"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2120.77,"endTime":2123.73,"body":"has this confirmation bias. But"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2123.73,"endTime":2127.69,"body":"another bias we have is we just"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2123.73,"endTime":2127.69,"body":"constantly discount the future."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2128.05,"endTime":2131.05,"body":"Great way to see it as terms of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2128.05,"endTime":2131.05,"body":"investments, right? So typically"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2131.05,"endTime":2134.65,"body":"people, if they really were not"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2131.05,"endTime":2134.65,"body":"people, discount the future, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2134.65,"endTime":2137.29,"body":"therefore they don't understand"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2134.65,"endTime":2137.29,"body":"that compounded interest. And,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2137.59,"endTime":2141.61,"body":"you know, we are, many of us, or"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2137.59,"endTime":2141.61,"body":"most of us, are plagued with,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2142.03,"endTime":2144.81,"body":"you know, wanting instant"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2142.03,"endTime":2144.81,"body":"gratification, right? So these"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2144.8700000000003,"endTime":2147.9900000000002,"body":"are all biases discounted the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2144.8700000000003,"endTime":2147.9900000000002,"body":"future. I think another one we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2147.9900000000002,"endTime":2151.71,"body":"tragically see today is, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2147.9900000000002,"endTime":2151.71,"body":"look at birth around the world,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2151.7700000000004,"endTime":2154.2300000000005,"body":"I think you know, very few"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2151.7700000000004,"endTime":2154.2300000000005,"body":"countries now have replacement"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2154.2300000000005,"endTime":2156.4500000000003,"body":"rates, right? Because, and when"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2154.2300000000005,"endTime":2156.4500000000003,"body":"you don't have children, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2156.4500000000003,"endTime":2158.9100000000003,"body":"tend to discount the future as"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2156.4500000000003,"endTime":2158.9100000000003,"body":"well, because you're pretty much"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2158.9100000000003,"endTime":2161.9700000000003,"body":"living for today. So I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2158.9100000000003,"endTime":2161.9700000000003,"body":"there's a lot there to unpack,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2161.9700000000003,"endTime":2165.4700000000003,"body":"but to me, it's a combination of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2161.9700000000003,"endTime":2165.4700000000003,"body":"a heuristic around we just"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2165.4700000000003,"endTime":2168.2900000000004,"body":"discount future our brains"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2165.4700000000003,"endTime":2168.2900000000004,"body":"again, and we've evolved for"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2168.2900000000004,"endTime":2171.59,"body":"that, right? Because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2168.2900000000004,"endTime":2171.59,"body":"when we were trying to survive"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2171.65,"endTime":2174.65,"body":"in the Savannah, who cared about"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2171.65,"endTime":2174.65,"body":"the future to avoid the tiger or"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2174.65,"endTime":2177.11,"body":"the lion, right? Now, really"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2174.65,"endTime":2177.11,"body":"hardwired. Seriously, it's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2177.11,"endTime":2179.8700000000003,"body":"hardwired into us, yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2177.11,"endTime":2179.8700000000003,"body":"that now, you know, so we"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2179.8700000000003,"endTime":2183.3100000000004,"body":"haven't evolved for where we are"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2179.8700000000003,"endTime":2183.3100000000004,"body":"in the world today. So that was"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2183.3700000000003,"endTime":2186.07,"body":"the first part. You asked me a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2183.3700000000003,"endTime":2186.07,"body":"second question as well. I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2186.7900000000004,"endTime":2187.09,"body":"so"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2186.7900000000004,"endTime":2191.0090000000005,"body":"the easy question,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2186.7900000000004,"endTime":2191.0090000000005,"body":"Zak is, what are you doing with"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2191.0930000000003,"endTime":2196.2400000000002,"body":"the age of adoption podcast, and"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2191.0930000000003,"endTime":2196.2400000000002,"body":"who are your dream guests on"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2196.3250000000003,"endTime":2197.1690000000003,"body":"that show?"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2197.13,"endTime":2199.71,"body":"Oh, thanks, yeah."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2197.13,"endTime":2199.71,"body":"So the age of adoption podcast"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2199.71,"endTime":2203.4300000000003,"body":"is and Tim, you were a fantastic"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2199.71,"endTime":2203.4300000000003,"body":"guest. I. And so thank you for"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2203.4300000000003,"endTime":2208.05,"body":"again, coming on that we want to"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2203.4300000000003,"endTime":2208.05,"body":"get on on the show just people"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2208.05,"endTime":2212.3100000000004,"body":"who are smart and candidly, who"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2208.05,"endTime":2212.3100000000004,"body":"have been in the industry for a"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2212.3100000000004,"endTime":2215.4900000000002,"body":"while, so they can tell that"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2212.3100000000004,"endTime":2215.4900000000002,"body":"adoption story. And again, for"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2215.4900000000002,"endTime":2220.2900000000004,"body":"us, we look at the history of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2215.4900000000002,"endTime":2220.2900000000004,"body":"climate over the last 25 years,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2220.2900000000004,"endTime":2224.0550000000003,"body":"and two distinct kind of epochs"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2220.2900000000004,"endTime":2224.0550000000003,"body":"or phases, right? So up until"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2224.3550000000005,"endTime":2226.5750000000003,"body":"five years ago, we call it the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2224.3550000000005,"endTime":2226.5750000000003,"body":"age of innovation, and that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2226.5750000000003,"endTime":2230.8950000000004,"body":"when companies and entrepreneurs"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2226.5750000000003,"endTime":2230.8950000000004,"body":"and investors were all spending"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2230.8950000000004,"endTime":2234.675,"body":"money and time innovating in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2230.8950000000004,"endTime":2234.675,"body":"solutions, hardware, software,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2234.675,"endTime":2238.635,"body":"best practices that they hoped"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2234.675,"endTime":2238.635,"body":"one day would be widely adopted."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2238.635,"endTime":2240.735,"body":"Last three, four years, we've"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2238.635,"endTime":2240.735,"body":"seen that come to fruition,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2240.735,"endTime":2243.135,"body":"right? So we want people who"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2240.735,"endTime":2243.135,"body":"have been around long enough in"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2243.135,"endTime":2246.1200000000003,"body":"this space, who can really"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2243.135,"endTime":2246.1200000000003,"body":"reflect on that, and we ask"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2246.1200000000003,"endTime":2248.5800000000004,"body":"them, what's your age of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2246.1200000000003,"endTime":2248.5800000000004,"body":"adoption story, right? How have"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2248.5800000000004,"endTime":2253.38,"body":"things changed for you over the"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2248.5800000000004,"endTime":2253.38,"body":"past 20 years, as you yourself"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2253.38,"endTime":2255.96,"body":"and your companies transition"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2253.38,"endTime":2255.96,"body":"from one age to the next, we've"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2255.96,"endTime":2259.2000000000003,"body":"had amazing guests. If you had"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2255.96,"endTime":2259.2000000000003,"body":"asked me a few months ago, kind"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2259.2000000000003,"endTime":2261.96,"body":"of who are my dream guests, one"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2259.2000000000003,"endTime":2261.96,"body":"of them would have been Jigar"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2261.96,"endTime":2265.5000000000005,"body":"Shah, but we actually just had"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2261.96,"endTime":2265.5000000000005,"body":"Jigar Shah on the podcast and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2265.5000000000005,"endTime":2265.9660000000003,"body":"released that episode. He's he's"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2265.5000000000005,"endTime":2265.9660000000003,"body":"just incredible to listen to."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2265.9660000000003,"endTime":2269.385,"body":"He's one of those people as you"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2265.9660000000003,"endTime":2269.385,"body":"know Tim. You can just kind of"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2269.385,"endTime":2272.565,"body":"ask a question, drop the mic and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2269.385,"endTime":2272.565,"body":"just listen, and he can go all"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2272.565,"endTime":2275.8650000000002,"body":"day. He's fantastic. But"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2272.565,"endTime":2275.8650000000002,"body":"ultimately, we just want those"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2275.8650000000002,"endTime":2278.3250000000003,"body":"kinds of people. I don't really"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2275.8650000000002,"endTime":2278.3250000000003,"body":"care about their title, I don't"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2278.3250000000003,"endTime":2280.6650000000004,"body":"care about what company they're"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2278.3250000000003,"endTime":2280.6650000000004,"body":"from. If you can give me"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2280.6650000000004,"endTime":2284.1450000000004,"body":"somebody who's really thoughtful"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2280.6650000000004,"endTime":2284.1450000000004,"body":"and has experienced this, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2284.1450000000004,"endTime":2286.3050000000003,"body":"can really give me a good sense,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2284.1450000000004,"endTime":2286.3050000000003,"body":"and our listeners, more"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2286.3050000000003,"endTime":2289.6650000000004,"body":"importantly, a good sense of how"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2286.3050000000003,"endTime":2289.6650000000004,"body":"the world has changed and how"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2289.6650000000004,"endTime":2292.8900000000003,"body":"they're experiencing that. As"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2289.6650000000004,"endTime":2292.8900000000003,"body":"somebody who's passionate about"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2292.8900000000003,"endTime":2295.4700000000003,"body":"climate and sustainability,"},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2292.8900000000003,"endTime":2295.4700000000003,"body":"that's a great guess for me."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2297.05,"endTime":2299.9730000000004,"body":"Awesome. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2297.05,"endTime":2299.9730000000004,"body":"so much. Keith Zakheim CEO of"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2300.034,"endTime":2303.202,"body":"Antenna Group. I really"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2300.034,"endTime":2303.202,"body":"appreciate this opportunity."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2303.2630000000004,"endTime":2307.039,"body":"Thank you for having me on your"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2303.2630000000004,"endTime":2307.039,"body":"show. And with that, I'll say,"},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2307.1000000000004,"endTime":2310.3900000000003,"body":"let's grow solar and storage."},{"speaker":"Tim Montague","startTime":2307.1000000000004,"endTime":2310.3900000000003,"body":"Have a great day, Keith."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2310.57,"endTime":2311.7700000000004,"body":"Let's do it."},{"speaker":"Keith Zakheim","startTime":2310.57,"endTime":2311.7700000000004,"body":"Thank you. You."}]}