Today we’re continuing our “herbs on our shelf” from A to Z series! This week, our herbs are schisandra and skullcap.
Schisandra (Schisandra chinensis) is SOUR. That flavor stands out most strongly when you taste the herb. But it’s also bitter, pungent, acrid, and a little bit sweet – that’s why it’s sometimes called five-flavor berry. Schisandra’s a great herb for modern people, not least because it helps a lot with anger and with sugar. It does have some drug interactions to be aware of, though!
Skullcap (Scutellaria lateriflora) is one of the ‘bitter mints’. It’s not powerfully bitter, like motherwort, but more like betony, ground ivy, or self-heal. This group includes mostly relaxants, lymphatics, alteratives, & anti-inflammatories, and skullcap is primarily a relaxant. Its specific affinities are tension in the neck & shoulders, or else tension that’s intermittent. It makes a great base compound with betony and passionflower, whether that’s for a nervine tea blend or a before-bed tincture.
Schisandra & skullcap are featured herbs in our Neurological & Emotional Health course. This is a user’s guide to your nerves & your emotions – including the difficult and dark ones. We discuss holistic herbalism strategies for addressing both neurological & psychological health issues. It includes a lengthy discussion of herbal pain management strategies, too!
Like all our offerings, these are self-paced online video courses, which come with free access to twice-weekly live Q&A sessions, lifetime access to current & future course material, twice-weekly live Q&A sessions with us, open discussion threads integrated in each lesson, an active student community, study guides, quizzes & capstone assignments, and more!
If you enjoyed the episode, it helps us a lot if you subscribe, rate, & review our podcast wherever you listen. This helps others find us more easily. Thank you!
Our theme music is “Wings” by Nicolai Heidlas.
You can find all of our online herbalism courses at online.commonwealthherbs.com!
Today we’re continuing our “herbs on our shelf” from A to Z series! This week, our herbs are schisandra and skullcap.
Schisandra (Schisandra chinensis) is SOUR. That flavor stands out most strongly when you taste the herb. But it’s also bitter, pungent, acrid, and a little bit sweet – that’s why it’s sometimes called five-flavor berry. Schisandra’s a great herb for modern people, not least because it helps a lot with anger and with sugar. It does have some drug interactions to be aware of, though!
Skullcap (Scutellaria lateriflora) is one of the ‘bitter mints’. It’s not powerfully bitter, like motherwort, but more like betony, ground ivy, or self-heal. This group includes mostly relaxants, lymphatics, alteratives, & anti-inflammatories, and skullcap is primarily a relaxant. Its specific affinities are tension in the neck & shoulders, or else tension that’s intermittent. It makes a great base compound with betony and passionflower, whether that’s for a nervine tea blend or a before-bed tincture.
Schisandra & skullcap are featured herbs in our Neurological & Emotional Health course. This is a user’s guide to your nerves & your emotions – including the difficult and dark ones. We discuss holistic herbalism strategies for addressing both neurological & psychological health issues. It includes a lengthy discussion of herbal pain management strategies, too!
Like all our offerings, these are self-paced online video courses, which come with free access to twice-weekly live Q&A sessions, lifetime access to current & future course material, twice-weekly live Q&A sessions with us, open discussion threads integrated in each lesson, an active student community, study guides, quizzes & capstone assignments, and more!
If you enjoyed the episode, it helps us a lot if you subscribe, rate, & review our podcast wherever you listen. This helps others find us more easily. Thank you!
Our theme music is “Wings” by Nicolai Heidlas.
You can find all of our online herbalism courses at online.commonwealthherbs.com!
<silence> Hi,
Speaker 2:I'm Katya . And
Speaker 3:I'm Ryn . And we're
Speaker 2:Here at Commonwealth Holistic Herbalism in Boston, Massachusetts,
Speaker 3:And on the internet everywhere, thanks to the power of the podcast.
Speaker 2:Woo-hoo .
Speaker 3:Yeah. Alright . So today , uh, we're gonna get back to our series where we've been looking at all of the herbs on our apothecary shelves, <laugh> , uh, in alphabetical order by their, by their botanical Latin names. And so that's why today we get together with s Kandra and Skullcap .
Speaker 2:Uh, those are very similar to their common names also.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah. 'cause we got, well, and they're , and they're Latin names, right? 'cause s Kandra is s Kandra, at least in English. Um, you may know it as Omi or Hui or other names. Um, and then Skullcap Scoot area , it's got, it's got some scoot in in it.
Speaker 2:<laugh>.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm. <affirmative> . Yeah, it does <laugh> . So ,
Speaker 2:Herb words are funny. This is probably the time, this is the time to share an herb joke. Um, because herb words can just be very funny. And , um, it's one of the reasons that we have to have a human transcribe all of our stuff. Um, AI can't transcribe herb words. It doesn't know the herb words. And anytime that I think about herb words are funny. I think about back in the, like, I don't know, it was like 2007 or something. I don't know when that remake of Battlestar Galactica came out. I can't remember, but I know it was still pretty popular in 2007. Um, and we were hanging out with a bunch of herbalists and somebody was making a joke about herbalists in space, and they were like, it's Battleship Galactic. Go . And, anyway, that makes me laugh every time. I never even remember the setup . I just say, battleship Galactic , go . And then I just crack up laughing. <laugh> <laugh> . So there you go. Airports are funny. <laugh> <laugh> .
Speaker 3:Okay. Well , um, anyway, so Skullcaps Kandra, we're gonna talk about these plans today, but first a couple of things. Uh, number one, we wanna remind you that our podcast is just a small part of what we do. We're teachers primarily, and we would love to teach you. So you can learn herbalism with us online , uh, through our courses that are centered on video lessons, just as if you were sitting right here in the room with us. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:<affirmative>. Yeah. But hey , um, if you are listening to this as a podcast, if you're watching this on YouTube, then you're like, videos, that sounds great. But if you're listening to this as a podcast, then you're like, wait. But I like to listen to things. Don't worry. Every video we include a corresponding MP three file so that you can put us in your ears and take us with you anywhere you go.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Those lessons also have integrated discussion threads, so you can ask your questions right as you go along and get your answers. Um, your course access never expires once you purchase a course with us or a whole program. You can review the material as often as you like.
Speaker 2:You should also, you should review the material often because , um, it's just, it's impossible to learn everything the first time around. And sometimes a few years later you're like, ah , man, what was that thing? Because maybe some little detail wasn't very important to you in that, in that moment when you saw it the first time, but then later it did become really important and you need to go back and review it. Um, plus every time that we add anything to the course, we update all our courses every three years. You get all those updates for free. That's right. Automatically. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you're not like alone, you know, in the dark with a computer screen trying to learn about plants and nature connection, <laugh>. Um , no. You're part of a community. So you get access to our , uh, our, our community space where you can post things and make discussions. And it's kind of like social media except herbal and better.
Speaker 2:And it is not on social media, right ? So if you're out there like, well, I don't do Facebook, so I don't, that wouldn't help me. Hey, no. It is a private community hosted on our own website , um, with only cool Herby people. So yeah. Just
Speaker 3:People like you. Right? Um, and we have twice weekly live q and a sessions. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . Um , and so there are ways for you to get feedback directly from, from Lady Bird and Me
Speaker 2:<laugh>. Yeah. That's me. He, that's, that's , it's 'cause we're married and we do cutesy things sometimes.
Speaker 3:Uh, yeah, it happens <laugh>. Um , so <laugh> . So you can find that, you can find all of our courses, all of our programs , uh, including a couple of free ones available@online.commonwealthherbs.com.
Speaker 2:Grab those free ones, and then you can come and join us at q and a. And this will stop being a one-way conversation. You can talk to us too, and we would love that. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah . All right . So one last thing before we jump today's topic. It's our reclaimer. That's where we remind you that we are not doctors, we are herbalists and holistic health educators.
Speaker 2:The ideas discussed in this podcast do not constitute medical advice. No state or federal authority licenses herbalists in the United States. So these discussions are for educational purposes only.
Speaker 3:We want to remind you that good health doesn't mean the same thing for everyone. Good health doesn't exist as an objective standard floating in the void, <laugh>,
Speaker 2:It's ,
Speaker 3:It's influenced by your Yes. You, your own individual needs, experiences, and goals. So keep in mind, we're not attempting to present a single dogmatic right way that you should adhere to because we don't believe there is such a thing. Nope.
Speaker 2:Everybody's body is different. So the things that we're talking about may or may not apply directly to you, but we hope that they'll give you some new information to think about and some ideas to research and experiment with. Further
Speaker 3:Finding your way to better health is both your right and your own personal responsibility. This doesn't mean you're alone on the journey, and it doesn't mean that you're to blame for your current state of health, but it does mean that the final decision, when you're considering any course of action, whether that's something discussed by your favorite herbalist on the internet, or prescribed by your favorite physician at the hospital, why not <laugh>? Uh , that's always your choice to make mm-hmm. <affirmative> . Yeah.
Speaker 2:I suppose there could be some situations in a hospital where it might not be your choice. And in the case, I , we are grateful there are , there are, we are grateful for emergency room staff who can, you know , practitioners who can take care of those kinds of situations too. Yes. Thank you. Yeah .
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, let's talk about Casandra. Let's , this has , let's do that . This , this has very little to do with , um, traumatic injuries that send you to the hospital. I can't think Nope. No <laugh> . No , not the one.
Speaker 2:No, this is not a trauma herb. Um, but wow. It is really an appropriate herb for our times. And there's so much about schizandra. But two things that are really important to me when I think about schizandra, like two little flags or hats or something that I imagine on Casandra , um, is anger and sugar, <laugh>, <laugh> . I think that those are two things that a lot of modern people struggle with. And so an herb who can help with anger and sugar , um, for me, that is really, really valuable. So , um, maybe I'll start with anger.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think we should <laugh> that , that sort of inserts itself at the front of the queue anyway, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does. It , it like when you have demands
Speaker 3:It, when , when you, when you suddenly realize you're having multiple emotions, if anger is one of them, it's probably right up front,
Speaker 2:It's probably at the top. Yeah, exactly. Um, so sciandra is , um, sort of like some background here. It is an herb that has cooling, like draining effect on the liver. And traditionally the liver is very associated with anger, especially like if you have a hot, inflamed liver that's very associated with anger. And , um, I include those two things because they are traditional knowledge that comes to us from, you know, many different cultures. But , um, what's way more important? Like, that's interesting. When I hear it, I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Um, and then often I'm like, why do they think that the liver is associated with anger? I don't know. Um, you know, oh,
Speaker 3:There's lots of connections. I , I
Speaker 2:Know there are, but Yeah . Yeah , I know there are, but often when you hear those kinds of connections, it's sort of like, I , I don't know. Or like,
Speaker 3:Right. Well, it can be presented that way, right? Yeah. Like, I think the first many times that I heard herbal teachers, you know , uh, talk about that kind of thing, it was would've been presented in a way that was like, well, this comes from , uh, an ancient system of knowledge. And so it's not really open to , to questioning or it's like, well, it's just a , you know, it's like an energetic connection. You've got these kinds of energy here and those kinds of energy there, and when they connect, then these things happen. And that's, that's a way to talk about them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , you know , lots of people like that. But there are other , other ways to think about it. You know, in the modern world, a lot of people are pretty comfortable talking about inflammation and talking about the way that inflammation can spread around the body like a fire, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so we can say, all right , well, if you have a lot of fire, a lot of heat in your liver, a lot of irritation, a lot of inflammatory problems going on in there, that's not gonna stay there, that's gonna move to other places in your body. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> . And then we can look at people who have inflamed livers, and we can poke under the ribs a little bit and be like, oh, that's really tender there, huh? Okay. Inflamed liver. Yeah. Oh, you've got redness in your face. Okay. Yeah. Those things come together very often. We can start to make these connections, and then we can think about like, somebody who's feeling a lot of anger and what does their pattern look like mm-hmm . And where's the blood in their body and mm-hmm . <affirmative> , which organs are hot and irritated at those times too. So
Speaker 2:I wanna make a specific reference for Western traditions , um, like cultural association of the liver and anger. And it wasn't usually said the word liver, it was said with the word bile. Bile, yeah . And whenever, like, you, maybe you'll read like, I don't know, some older work of fiction or literature, and something will be said with a lot of bile, or like, they'll use the word bile as a description of a person's behavior or a person's affect or their mood or, or whatever mm-hmm. <affirmative> , um,
Speaker 3:He has a bilious character. Yeah,
Speaker 2:Exactly. <laugh> . Exactly. And , um, so that is always like a reference to anger or mean like a a mean person or , um, you , you know, a person with a lot of outburst kind of, kind of thing. Or , um, if you say something with a lot of bile, it's like, it was spat when they said it, like it was said with a lot of hmm , uh, resentment or with a lot of like, daggers in the tone of voice or whatever, you know. Um, so all those different like, flavors of anger that we associate in the western tradition, even literarily with the word bile. Um, so I like, okay, that's helpful for me when I'm like, oh, well, many cultures make this association. Mm-hmm . But it's most helpful for me when I can be, like, I can see it in the body <laugh> , like I can, I can see that heat moving around. Um, but so, okay, so it is an herb that is cooling of inflammation to the liver. But here's what I really think about about it, is that the Cassandra falls into that category of adaptogens and adaptogens help you manage stress better. And we often think about adaptogens as energy herbs, even though that's not, it's not always appropriate. It's also not inappropriate, but it's not appropriate to think of them in that way, the same way that we would think of caffeine. And I think often we do make that the same.
Speaker 3:It's too easy to Yeah. To conflate stimulant and adaptogen. And I think that's largely because so many of the most popular and well-known adaptogens are the stimulating ones. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , ginseng , rhodiola , eero in high concentrations, right. Powerful preparations. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> . Mm-hmm. <affirmative> . Those are the ones that are most well known and most associated with that term adaptogen. And then, you know, the , the more like, relaxing ones like jalon , you know, or let alone goji berry. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, but I don't even think those are exactly relaxing. I think that they are also about energy, just long haul energy
Speaker 3:They can be stabilizing. Yeah . And that, and that stabilization can, can lead to at least a mental relaxation. Like, I don't feel like I have to hold myself together and like the force of will is what's keeping all my molecules in the same place today. Right. It's like, okay, I'm steady, I've got energy, I can do what I do. That's where the feeling of the stress can fade away from you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I love that so much. Yeah . Everybody just back up like 15 seconds and listen to that again. 'cause that was really beautiful. Mm-hmm . Um, okay. So,
Speaker 3:And it's Cassandra could be that kind of, it could have that kind of influence. Like there, there's a lot of clients we've, we've suggested Cassandra too . They've tried it and then they've been like, yeah, I feel more steady. I don't have these like hot fiery flares in my day and then crashes after them. It's a little more even. Yeah. Not flat, right? But some nice rolling curves. Yeah .
Speaker 2:Yeah. Stable, I think is a good word. Yeah . But when I think about kandra and energy, what I'm thinking about is that , and this is true for a lot of those, not gin zg kind of adaptogens. It , it , I think about it more as like, Kandra has the energy to keep up with my anger. My, I don't know about y'all, but my anger is like long and smoldering and is easy to reignite like very, very quickly. Um, there's just a lot of stuff to be angry about <laugh> in this world today. And like also I've had a life with just some kind, not awesome experiences, and also a lot of very awesome experiences. But there , there's some things that I'm angry about. And, and so it's like just this long hot smolder. And one time I had a client who came in, this is not about Cassandra. Um, she came in and she was dealing with a lot of mental health issues, and she had a lot of like, complex overlapping mental health issues. And she didn't really like believe in herbalism, which I say with air quotes, because the plants don't actually care if you believe in them or not. Like <laugh> , you know, like nettle has magnesium, whether you, whether you believe nettle will help you or not. It , it does in fact have some minerals for you. Um, so , uh, but she was, you know, one of those people where this was a real stretch out of her comfort zone. And she came in and she kind of like threw her stuff down on the, on the table, and she said, I'm here, but I just wanna tell you that I don't want you to tell me that I need chamomile or something stupid like that, because this is a serious problem. And of course, if you know me, you know that I think that camile is definitely appropriate for serious problems. But, but like for, for this woman, she , what she was really saying was like, I need something that can stand up to the complexity of my emotional health that everyone before me has not been able to help with. And I don't perceive chamomile, but maybe chamomile as a stand in for many, many herbs as strong enough to stand up to what's going on for me right now. And so that's how I think about the energy in a lot of the quieter adaptogens and casandra in particular. It has the energy to stand up to the longest, hottest, smoldering anger that you've got. Like, it's not like, yeah , I'll just have a little sip of tea and I'll suddenly feel magically happy and butterflies. Like, that's not how anger is. And s kandra is like, I will get in there and I will drain out that anger. Like drain out , like the, like superpower one, the extra strength. Yeah. Yeah . But, but like, not like coffee. When you think about things that are really strong, then you think about things like coffee and the jitters and like the uncomfortable feelings that can come along with that sort of strength. And when we're thinking about Cassandra, like there, there aren't, there is none of that discomfort. Put a little asterisk next to that because it does have a very interesting flavor, and I find it delightful. But some people do find it a little uncomfortable. But, but in terms of like, like side effects or, or other effects that aren't the effects you were wanting to have or whatever. It doesn't have that kind.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's not like you're gonna take Cassandra and Oops, I had double my usual dose and now I've got nausea and vomiting mm-hmm . <affirmative> , or I've got like wild diarrhea or some other nonsense going on.
Speaker 2:That's not gonna
Speaker 3:Happen. This isn't, this orb doesn't have those kinds of risks. And hey, that's part of why it gets to be in the category of an adaptogen. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> . Right. That's a , a critical part of, of constructing that category of herbs, right. Is that you should be able to take them in small doses if you feel like it, or big enormous doses. And it doesn't make a huge difference that way in terms of risk. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but you did mention the flavor, and maybe we can talk about flavor and then swing around to sugar. Um, so kandra usually the first thing that hits people when you take kandra, if you chew on the berries or you drink tea, or you take tincture is the sour. Usually that's the first and most prominent flavor to come through. But if you give it a moment to kind of sink in, then you can taste other, other elements as well. There's a little bit of a ency, like the warmth. Now , don't think of the same flavor as ginger or horseradish or turmeric, but something in that direction. Something in that in that area, right ?
Speaker 2:Like the, the heat that comes along with the flavor.
Speaker 3:Yeah. There's some of that in this Casandra berry. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , there's some bitterness to it. Right. There's some acrid flavor. That one's a little buried, but you can, you can, you can find it. And there's even a touch of sweet in there. Right. And so this is why this plant has been called Five Flavor Berry.
Speaker 2:It, it also has something that for me, reads as smoky , even though I don't believe that it is actually smoky . Sometimes
Speaker 3:You get Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you get a metallic taste a little bit. Yeah. That , that , that sits next to the bitter and it's kind of like, it's not the same. Okay. But again, there's a, there's an echo of the very metallic flavor of berberine. Um,
Speaker 2:Yeah. It doesn't taste like berberine, but it has qualities like berberine. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah . Something, something a little on that side. It , so it
Speaker 2:Is , it's a flavor, like you were mentioning that like, oh, and then sort of beside it, the like, not as strong as this other flavor, but I think most people would be, like, every single one of them is very, very strong. Like, and
Speaker 3:They're all happening at once .
Speaker 2:If y'all were listening to this to go to bed, I'm really sorry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's , sorry about that.
Speaker 2:<laugh> <laugh> . But anyway, the flavors are intense, especially if you are just chewing on the dried berries. If you drink it as tea, a little less intense, intense, but a little less intense. But if you take it as tincture, intense, but quick, so tolerable. But if you are chewing on the berries, which honestly I do recommend at least, at least once, just to like, have that experience. And again, I like in a , it does become interesting if you can like, relax around it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. But you know, there's something about taking the berry directly, having that strong flavor, chewing the berries. 'cause they're, they're not going to , they're they're chewy. They're not gonna disappear fast, right ? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , these are gonna , these are gonna take , um, at least the jaw workout for a raisin, but almost all the way to a goji berry. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Almost. Yeah. Almost as tough as a goji berry. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Sometimes they're a little more gummy, sometimes they're a little more like dry, dry and hard. It depends on how they were
Speaker 2:It depends on the
Speaker 3:Batch Yeah . How they were handled, you know? Um, but, but yeah, when you take them that way and you, you , you , you wake up in the morning and you kind of get yourself moving or whatever, and then you eat your 10 berries in the morning and you chew them one at a time, and now you're like really saturated with that flavor. There's something about that. Like, there's something about having that intensity of flavor coming in. Because when we work with herbs, we get, we're , we are getting effects for a lot of reasons. Some of them are obviously about the chemistry moving into your body, getting to your stomach, getting to your liver, getting to your bloodstream, floating around, touching your nerves, touching your organs, acting on them. Okay. But there's also these effects that travel through flavor responses. Mm . And some of those are triggered right away. And in herbalism, the most famous example is bitter. Right? Anything, when you taste the bitterness that that contact with your tongue sends signals up to your brain, sends signals down to your, through the vagus nerve, to the other organs in the body and says, wake up, get to work. All you digestive organs, make your juices, let's go. That's not the only flavor that sends those kinds of signals though. Right. The accurate flavor in a lot of herbs triggers a relaxant effect mm-hmm . <affirmative> in , in many of our muscles. So with schizandra, where there's all these flavors coming in and they're all pretty intense, there's a lot of response going on with that. I would, I wouldn't say it's worthless to take like s schizandra extract in a capsule that you never taste at all. But I would say that I think you're getting a less complete representation of what that plant has to offer you. Or at the very least, a very different representation of how that's gonna hit your system compared to chewing on some strawberries or sipping on some tea.
Speaker 2:It is very alive when you have the flavor. It is like if you were having one of those days where you're just like, maybe it's gray outside and also it's gray inside, and also it's gray all the way inside, like it's just gray everywhere and foggy. Um , the flavor of casandra just clears all that away. It is just very alive in your mouth. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you can even, I mean, you can connect that to the, the kind of system wide or like body wide set of effects that the plant can have, right? Like the bitter flavor. Okay. Lots of action going on in digestion . The accurate flavor muscles are relaxing is the pungent flavor. All right . We're getting some immunity response and maybe some lung response as well with that, right? So these are all like associations between the types of tastes that we can perceive and the types of chemistry that caused those to happen. And the way that those hit the system and how we can observe. You take the thing with the flavor, you get the set of effects, give it to lots and lots of people over time. We see those consistent. This is where these traditions come from mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right . Um, and you know, for a lot of plants you can be like, this is a very clear, very simple herb. This is centenary, this is gentian , this is pure bitter. This is gonna get your digestion moving. It's gonna have some effects on your nerves that we understand better now mm-hmm . <affirmative> , <laugh> , you know , than we used to. But , um, but like, there's that really strong visible impact going on. And then with schizandra, it's like, wow, a lot of stuff has to be
Speaker 2:Happening. A lot of stuff is happening. Yeah .
Speaker 3:And you can tell from the taste, you know, so Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Valuable . And even some of that stuff is hormonal in action too. Um, so, and that's one of the aspects of schizandra, but also adaptogens in general is like a hormonal , um, calibration, recalibration or hormonal modulation. I'm really working to avoid the word balancing because balance and hor is not necessarily, those two words don't necessarily go together.
Speaker 3:You're okay. You can, you can associate balance here as long as you're thinking of like, like standing on a balance board or somebody who's on a tightrope. They're not still their dancing <laugh>.
Speaker 2:It's like a very active form of balance. You have
Speaker 3:To keep the dance going or you are going to follower. It's, it's necessary. Right .
Speaker 2:Or like a slack line . Yeah. Yeah . Totally. And like that balance has a lot of movement in it, even if it is not a person who is about to fall off and they're like, whoa . But like even a person who's very comfortable doing that kind of activity is , is very active in their body about balancing. Okay. Yeah. That would be a fine way to, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah . And sometimes those movements that maintain , maintain balance can be small. I'm thinking of this video I , I've seen, and maybe you have too, but it's like you're flying alongside a , uh, a raptor, you know , um, uh, a hawk or something, or a falcon. And what the video is showing you is it's like stabilized on the Falcon's head as if that's not moving at all. But the body's moving and the wings are adjusting. And sometimes there's like a big, big wing movement, and sometimes it's like one feather moves up two degrees <laugh>, and , and that's what's required to, to like, keep the head steady, keep your eyes on that mouse <laugh> , you know, a mile away or whatever. So there can be that kind of effect that that maintains balance, you know, dynamic equilibrium in the body. But sometimes, you know, you gotta be moving <laugh>. Yeah. You gotta , you gotta have those, those counterbalances happening. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I , I think we're back to smoldering anger. Like, it , this is fine. It , it's , Cassandra will help with hot anger too, like very active, flaming, raging anger too, like, but , um, but really that sort of long-term hot smoldering anger, like, it, it is that active form of like, you have to, you have to drain that off and balance it out, and you can't, like, it is not a thing that you can just be like, oh, well, feeling better now. Like, that's never gonna happen. It has to be a very active progression through , um,
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, anger can't just be set down. Like it does need to be metabolized. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , you know ? Yeah . So, so Cassandra helps with that. And Cassandra is a , a metabolically activating urban in other ways, even though the overall effect of the aplan is cooling. Right. Again, it's complicated. There's some cooling effects, there's some warming effects, you know? Mm-hmm . Um, the overall impact is gonna be like, we drain out excess fluid, we reduce excess heat. Uh , you can think of like the inflammation itself draining away from the system. So that's the overall impact, but that requires some activity in order to, to get that to happen, right? Mm-hmm . Um, and casandra's really good in that regard. And so yeah, that does bring us back around to this idea about sugar and all of the adaptogens you mentioned, can, can have improvements on a lot of hormonal effects in our system, including ones around blood sugar regulation. But Casandra is a standout in that regard . Yeah,
Speaker 2:It really is. Um, tulsi, I , I will put in the standout category also, and tulsi and Kandra tastes great together, st um, but , uh, ss Kandra has like some extra bonus . There are many herbs that can help your body more efficiently manage and metabolize blood , uh, metabolize sugar and like keep blood sugar levels in a more like , um, steady state. But casandra, even if you are not trying, also just curbs the cravings for sugar. And the way that I found this out was that I was in , um, I was having some emotional , um, rough times, and I was , um, making a lot of cake to compensate for my emotional state. And it was gluten-free, dairy-free cake sweetened with honey, you know, I was harm reducing my cake, but still it was cake. And I was in a place that like, I needed to have cake every day to, to like get through my day. And , um, some people maybe don't have that kind of emotional response, but some of you out there are like, oh, Katya, I have been there. So , um, anyway, I was in that place and I decided to start working with Cassandra around anger management issues. Like, it had nothing to do with sugar. I really hadn't even associated it with sugar at that point, so, fine. Okay. And I started taking, you know, 10 casandra berries every day , which is like, whether it is true or not, it's unclear, but, but it is in the like , um, mythology around herbalism, especially specifically in New England herbalism , um, that traditionally people worked with schizandra by taking 10 berries a day. I don't know if that's really accurate, but that is like the mythology that came out of like New England teaching , um,
Speaker 3:10 a day for a hundred days for a
Speaker 2:Hundred days. Right.
Speaker 3:And what is that? Right? Like, that's a season. Yeah. You know, a season is a good , uh, like archetypal amount of time to initiate a habit and, and then like observe the beginning and the end and the change that occurs in that time. So
Speaker 2:Yeah, a season is really a , a good way to think about work and especially work with regarding to health, but, okay, so I was gonna do 10 berries a day for a hundred days, and I didn't get very far into it. And all of a sudden one day we were like, there's mold on this cake and <laugh> <laugh> , like, you gotta under ,
Speaker 3:Apparently I wasn't keeping up with my half of the bargain or whatever.
Speaker 2:But ,
Speaker 3:But yeah, that , uh, that had never happened before. That had never
Speaker 2:Happened before. And especially with, with the relationship I was in with cake in that moment. Yeah . Like the idea that the cake would sit alone untouched long enough for mold to happen at that point in my life was just an absolute, you've gotta be kidding me . I didn't even ,
Speaker 3:I wanna be clear, this was just like a hint of mold.
Speaker 2:I didn't even know the cake could mold wasn't ,
Speaker 3:It wasn't , it wasn't like, like green fuzz. Okay. <laugh>. Well , it was , it's not the kind of house we live in.
Speaker 2:That's true <laugh> . But there was enough mold for me to see it and be like, oh my goodness, I can't eat that . Like, I took the lid off and I was like, oh my goodness, I can't eat this. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . Um, yeah. And anyway , uh, that was when I was like, but I was not trying to not eat cake. I was in a head space of cake will get me through my day, what happened here? And then we realized it was this casandra. And when you make that kind of realization, that is exciting, but you have to test it because what if it wasn't this casandra? What if it was something else? Yeah , yeah . Uh , and so we've tested it and , uh, and it works really, really well that it just, over a period of time, not even too long of time, like a couple of weeks, it, it just changes your desire for sugar. Um, so that was pretty exciting. And again, like, I think I think about an herb that is strong enough to stand up to, like Kandra had enough energy, had enough strength in that time to stand up to me, like in a not healthy relationship with sugar and using sugar to get through emotionally challenging times. And that was, that was amazing. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . Yeah .
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay, so you can text Casandra in lots of ways, right? And we've mentioned a bunch of them. You can, you can debate make a tea today we made a tea . I, I often like to prepare tea for the herbs we're gonna talk about in our, in our little episodes. So this has a combo of sc skull cap with casandra. It's about three parts , skull cap to one part casandra. And I feel like that's a decent ratio. Um, but you can play with it. You could try them half and half or , or you could just try each one by themselves and see what you think. But this is not overwhelmingly 'cause Andres
Speaker 2:<laugh> Schizandra <laugh>
Speaker 3:Scre . Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Um, I do like these two together very much. Because if you, I just a little preview. If you think about skull cap and it's ability to help stop the hamster wheel of repetitive thinking in your mind , um, and then you think about anger, especially long held anger <laugh> . Yeah.
Speaker 3:How repetitive is that <laugh> ? How
Speaker 2:Repetitive that is in your mind. Just so repetitive in your mind. Yeah . And so, like the idea of putting these two together is really particularly beautiful to me. So I'm really excited that they came next to each other on the shelf and we get to talk about them together. Yeah. Yeah . Yeah .
Speaker 3:Um, one other thing I guess about Casandra before we do move on. Um, so something that we've been paying some attention to and , uh, teaching about recently. 'cause we've been filming video about herb drug interactions. Uh, and you know, when it comes to herb drug interactions, you've got some real standouts. You've got your St . John's board Wow. That can interact with lots of plants, <laugh>, lots of drugs, lots of meds , right? You've got grapefruit that can interact with a lot of them, and with both of them it's, it's largely because of their effects on these enzymes that your liver and your kidneys and your intestines make , uh, which help to metabolize those, those medications and, and other things of course, right? Like your body didn't invent them when pharmaceuticals were developed. Yeah .
Speaker 2:<laugh>, no, all those enzymes actually have work that they do in the body in real life. Right? Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure. But yeah. Okay. A drug enters your system, these enzymes are gonna break it down or, you know, help to metabolize it and get it outta your system. But , uh, St . John's war can make more of those enzymes happen, and that can cause you to metabolize the drug faster than usual. Grapefruit can cause you to make less of them. And so the drug is metabolized slower than usual. In either case, this can lead to some issues, you know, especially with drugs where you're trying to have a really regular schedule with them. So the levels kind of like reach a , a high point and a low point at predictable times in your day. Everything is kind of steady in that regard. But if you take one of these at the same time as your drug, or you take it consistently while you're taking that drug now what's called the, the pharmacokinetics, or like the way the drug moves in your body, that might change more of it's kicked out of the system than usual, or it stays around a lot longer than it should. Right . Um, so it turns out that schizandra has a similar type of effect , um, specifically similar to grapefruit, in that it can slow down your liver's processing of those , uh, of those foreign agents. And one way to think about this , um, that I think should make sense to herbalists is that this is in some ways an extension of the cooling effect that Schizandra has on your liver. One of the reasons people today have so much liver inflammation is because we encounter so much weird stuff that our body has to cope with. Mm . Tear down apart, make it into a form that you can get it out of the system. But the first steps in that process are themselves pro-inflammatory. They're, they are an oxidative process. Your body is burning those molecules of your pharmaceutical or the bad stuff in the water. That's the only water you've got to drink. You know, if you live in a polluted area, like in Cold River Valley in West Virginia, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative> , you've got hexavalent chromium in the water table. There's not a lot you can do about that. Yes. Filters, yes. Bottled water, we can talk about all of those strategies and they're super important, but people are exposed to these things at some level anyway. Right. And so your body has to cope with that. And again, part of that process of getting it out of you does involve generating inflammation and that stacked up with sugar, stacked up with stress, stacked up with a loss of sleep. It can be more in inflammation than your system can really handle. And so slowing that down a little bit, or helping your body to move through these things in an organized way, like we do the inflammatory part, but only , uh, so much as we keep up with the anti-inflammatory part that really finalizes it and gets it outta your body. Right. So Cassandre seems to help to reach that kind of a level of liver activity. And so the takeaway though is that if there's a drug going on and it's a drug where we don't wanna screw around with the, the cycle of it in your system, the, the peaks and valleys of that, of that drug's level in your body during the day, then we should use a little caution when we think about schizandra or when we wanna work with Schizandra. Um, this one is of course still being researched. There's not like a final comprehensive list of all the drugs that this one could interact with and all of the dose ranges at which that may occur for both the drug and for the herb and the body types and the constitutions and the genetic variations and the history of other health issues. That would give us a lot of clarity for one individual about whether or not the service is safe to incorporate in their regimen. But
Speaker 2:<laugh>, but ultimately you could end up with too much mm-hmm . <affirmative> of like a higher dose than what you really meant to have. Yeah. This is such complicated stuff too, because so much of us are, so many of us are walking around with like impaired liver function and
Speaker 3:I don't wanna suggest that Casandra is reducing healthy liver function. 'cause I don't think that that's that's going on here at all. At all.
Speaker 2:No. Um, but I mean, neither is grapefruit. Grapefruit is not making your liver unhealthy. Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah . Um, it just changes the way that certain processes happen. And, and again, like, but there are so many factors of like leading an , a lifestyle, a modern lifestyle which is kind of inherently unhealthy that can cause us to have liver slow down that could also cause that kind of accumulation just because your liver's not getting through its to-do list mm-hmm . <affirmative> , uh, as fast as it could. So , um, so this is something to be concerned about and to be like following, but also might, might not be as serious as Right . As St . John's wart , you
Speaker 3:Know? Yeah . And , and even the comparison with grapefruit, like we have to think about dose sizes, you know, and in some contexts a person might drink a whole glass of casandra juice the way they might drink a whole glass of grapefruit juice. Like if you have a Casandra plant and you get enough berries and you squash 'em all up, yeah. You can do that. But most folks aren't like they're taking them as supplements or they're taking them as tincture or , or tea or berries that you chew on. It
Speaker 2:Is popular as soda in Korea.
Speaker 3:Yep . Yeah, absolutely. Yeah , right. Omi . Yeah.
Speaker 2:And here actually , um, uh, in central Massachusetts, there is a schizandra farm and they make kombucha out of the schizandra juice.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think there must be others. 'cause there's some national brands now that have itra schizandra kombucha. Yeah. So, you know , um, so it's definitely a , a thing that's out and about. And, and again, I wanted to, I wanna make it super clear, right? Like it is never the case with even this kind of drug interaction that one sip of your tea is gonna doom you to a serious interaction that puts your life at risk, you know? Right, right,
Speaker 2:Right. There's so many complicating factors. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So there's different ways to respond to that kind of information. You know, somebody who's brand new to herbalism, probably the best thing is, well, you've got a lot of learning to do before you go making any recommendations to anybody. Let's start with that. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . Okay. But maybe you're at a point where like, you've got some experience under your belt, you work with a lot of herbs yourself, you're, you're, you know, comfortable , um, suggesting people to drink some chamomile tea for their tummy ache and that kind of thing. Maybe it's Cassandra's one . You, you keep in your back pocket for a while or you at least say, all right , anybody on medications, I'm just not gonna talk about this herb, or I'm gonna caution them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , this might not be the , the writer for you mm-hmm . <affirmative> , but those of you who are in clinical practice , um, you need this kind of familiarity with these issues and with the nuances involved in them so that you can help somebody make their own personal decision. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . Right. Okay . And , and Likeactually , I look at the drug list you've got, I look at the health issues in your history. I look at other information we've got that's relevant to these types of, of questions. And I think, all right , for you, this preparation of casandra at this dose, I think that this is safe. Um, you know, that's something that you need to be able to express to somebody as a clinical herbalist in the world today. Right.
Speaker 2:To be able to sort of differentiate the people where this wouldn't be a concern or the people where this would be a concern. Yeah. Um , because you can fine tune that. You don't actually, one , once you get good at this, you don't actually have to say no one taking any pharmaceuticals ever, could ever have any trial size dose of Casandra. It's good to do
Speaker 3:That . Put that in that kombucha kid, you know, <laugh> . Yeah . Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2:It's good to do that. Like in the beginning when you're not confident about herb drug interactions. But , uh, like Rin said, we just finished updating the Herb Drug Interaction course mm-hmm . <affirmative> , uh, it's really good. So you could go grab that. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You're gonna love it,
Speaker 2:<laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 3:All right . So, and, and again, don't be afraid of Schizandra. Right. <laugh> , like this is a , this is a fantastic herb. There are so many cases in which it's really helpful, and like you said, it kind of at the lead in here for modern people in particular who are surrounded by sugar on all sides and have a lot to be angry about. Yeah . <laugh>.
Speaker 2:Yeah .
Speaker 3:Yeah . Yeah . Um , this serve is very, very appropriate.
Speaker 2:Very awesome. Yeah . Yeah .
Speaker 3:Okay. So, you know , um, let's talk about Skullcap and Skullcap here. Let's, let's say we're talking about Alaria laal flora . There are other skullcaps, there are are other alaria species. Probably the most famous is Alaria by Ensis , which is often called Bcal skullcap or sometimes Chinese skullcap. Um, even though like Bcal is in Russia.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay. Yeah. But I've never heard it called Russian skullcap. But anyway , um, that one we're not so much gonna be addressing today because we don't work with it. Like we've, we have worked with it a few times, you know, I'm thinking of , uh, like herbal formulations that are designed to combat complex infected wounds. Yeah. And includes some, you know, bcal skullcap for the , uh, the quorum sensing inhibition and break up the biofilms. And, and that's very helpful. Um, but that's been the majority, I'd say, for both of us with Bcal .
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, and the thing is that there are so many plants who can do that work. Mm-hmm . That , um, and I don't have bcal skullcap, like I, I think that we can grow it, but we're not currently growing it. Yeah. Um, and
Speaker 3:I mean, Sam grew it in Texas, so it can't be that
Speaker 2:Hard . No, I think we can grow it here. Um, just we haven't done it. And I mean, we could purchase it, but I think it's that, you know, a lot of times the herbs that you like the best are because they're the tools that you need to do the work you're doing right now. And when I'm thinking about infection, the tools that I turn to for that are, and tools, I don't mean to imply that herbs are like tools. I mean, I guess, well anyway, they're our friends. They're , you know, we work with them, but you know, I'm looking at pine and plantain, herbs, herbs that are here. Yeah . Right around me.
Speaker 3:I think part of what happened, and I'm, you know , like I'm seeing this in my own mental history here, is when we started to hear herbalist talking about biofilms and about quorum sensing inhibition and , um, all of that kind of effect. Skullcap was one of the, by call Skullcap especially was one of the like first most prominent ones mm-hmm. <affirmative> to hit sort of the herbal discussion scene, you know what I mean? And, and
Speaker 2:I think one of the first ones that they studied really extensively
Speaker 3:Yeah. And especially to the level to be like these particular chemicals, the kolin and Olean , which are found in lateral flora also, but especially there, like it's right there in the names right. By call Skullcap Olean , it's Yeah . Yeah . These are connected. Yeah. Um, that those were identified as, as serving these quorum sensing inhibition functions and helping to break up a biofilm and allow the other herbs in your, in your formula to be more effective as antimicrobials. Um, and then over the next bunch of years, between then and now, there's like dozens and dozens of papers that are pointing at lots of other herbs. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like lots of other herbs. Okay. Like
Speaker 2:Basically I think every herb that they have investigated to say, I wonder if this herb has Yeah. It turns out quo sensing, inhibition check.
Speaker 3:And it's one of those things where after a while you sort of stop and you look at the information, you're like, well, of course it is . Right. Because plants have to deal with microbial biofilms all the time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , they can't run away from them. They can't scrape the slime off of their trunks <laugh> .
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah .
Speaker 3:So most plants have to have some kind of a strategy for this mm-hmm . <affirmative> for this type of problem. Yeah. Okay. So let , let's, maybe we can lead with that. Like, if you have somehow gotten the message that only bcal skullcap can be helpful in an antimicrobial formula to, you know, enhance the efficacy of your berberine plants, or your pungent bitter mitts or your whatever else , uh, guess what? Skullcap can help.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Everybody can help. So many plants can help. Um, but when I think about skullcap and the , and the work that I do today, I'm thinking about emotional health and mental health and , um, tension and those repeating ruminating thoughts, like tension in the mind and tension in the body that's associated with tension in the mind, especially like at the base of the neck , um, when you're like pinching your shoulder blades together. Those are the kinds of things that, that we work with all of the time. Uh , to be honest , um, herbalists don't work on infections so frequently. Now if you go hiking a lot or if you do a lot of first aid and, and you know, that kind of stuff, then yes, you get to work with infections a lot that way. And that's where we have most of our experience with infections. But if you are just like a clinical herbalist in the world today, you are dealing with a lot more mental health stuff than you are with actual wound care.
Speaker 3:It's, it is just because of the logistics, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , you're Okay, schedule an appointment with me. It's probably not about this thing that's growing green slime on my arm, <laugh>. I'm not gonna wait two weeks to have my herbalist talk to me through Zoom about that. You know? Okay. Yeah. Um, yeah . That's also why it's good for everybody to learn basic wound care because if you get through those things before they're green and growing slime Yes. Then even very common simple herbs can , uh, can take care of that for you . Yes. It's the best way. Right.
Speaker 2:But, so when I think about Skullcap cap , I'm thinking about La Terra Flora because it is so integral to the work that, that I do most of the time. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's , um, flavor-wise, right? Uh, skullcap is pretty mild in taste. It's a little bit bitter, and it falls into this category that we can call the bitter mince . That's like a mint family plant, le e c a family plant. Right. Um, you've got your pepperminty mitts , you've got your pungent mitts , you know, like sage, sage and thyme, and oregano and minarda . And then you have some that are bitter and there's a scale in there. Right. You've got like really, really bitter ones like mother wart , and then you have ones like Beany and ground Ivy, and even self-heal where it's there, it's definitely there. And like the more herb you throw into the water and the longer you steep it, the more , the more it comes out, the more it
Speaker 2:Can be. Yeah. But it's also like a green kind of bitter green as opposed to like centaury or gentian or something that is a very like mm-hmm . <affirmative>, I don't know what color those are, but it's very, well,
Speaker 3:They're sharp, but
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, yeah . Those are super bitter.
Speaker 3:Some of them are clear color .
Speaker 2:Oh , I was gonna say clear too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, there we go. Um, but, but, so this is a , like the bitterness is a green bitter. It's, you know, it's like just a little bitter. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, what I find interesting about this, this little cluster , uh, together here, these bitter mints is that they're, they've got a number of overlapping effects, right? We've got relaxants, many of them have, have lymphatic capacity. Uh, a lot of them are alterative and, and anti-inflammatory. Right. And that last one that covers all of them , <laugh>, especially self-heal, but yeah, mother wart , bat knee , ground iv , skullcap. Yeah. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , all of them are nice anti-inflammatory. A bunch of them get your fluids moving. That helps with improving the quality of all your, all your circulating fluids. Right. Um, skullcap is a definite relaxant in this group,
Speaker 2:Right? Yeah. If we kinda make that relaxant lymphatic alternative anti, anti-inflammatory, like into a spectrum, it's definitely way on the relaxant side.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah . That's the major thing that we turn to this plant for.
Speaker 2:Hmm . It's sort of , um, but not generalized relaxant. Yeah. Like it's a really specific relaxant and it's, it's specific for our times. Like it really is about that hamster wheel and, and the tension that comes along with it. Like, like when you are just spinning around on the same thought over and over it, like, it's almost like it is winding up your body and like you're just like, your shoulders are coming up to your ears and like your shoulder blades are pinching together and you're just like, the tension is just nodding itself up. Um, all like trying to get into your head along with this like hamster wheel of thought. Hmm . Um, and, and that is that point of relaxation for skull cap .
Speaker 3:Yeah. Right.
Speaker 2:Oh, that kind of hurts. I was really <laugh> , I was really cranking my shoulders off . <laugh> . We
Speaker 3:Should give you drink more skull cap tea <laugh> . You , you gotta like that . Yeah . We'll , it'll help you <laugh> . Yeah. It is helpful, you know, for those type of tension headaches , um, especially the ones where the tension is localized back here in the back. Like if it's right up in your temples, you could work with Skullcap, but we might give it some friends. Like I might put Beany in there mm-hmm. <affirmative> to help out. Um,
Speaker 2:You know, like I think of Skullcap as back of the head, but, but the one time that I don't think of it as back of the head is when it is directly above your eyebrows. Mm . That kind of headache. Mm . And the fun thing about that kind of headache is even though it's in the front of your head, it's in the back of your head. Um, because there are muscles that are right above your eyebrows and they go all the way back along like parallel , um, along the skull, like racing stripes, <laugh> . Um , and so if you have that tension, that stress tension and it is tensing everything up and it's like cranking your shoulders up to your ears, that's not the only crank that's happening. It's also cranking that, that muscle above the eyebrows as well. Um, and so that is, that is a front headache that I do still think about skullcap.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. That's some, that's some like anatomy trained stuff. 'cause it's, it's like several like muscles and connectives and stuff that are like joined by the fascia sheath .
Speaker 2:Right . It's not like one solid muscle. Yeah, yeah , yeah . They run back together.
Speaker 3:Yeah . Right. Well, there's that, there's that way to localize the, the type of tension that Skullcap is most helpful with, kind of like geographically on the body that way. And then there's also like, skullcap can be helpful for intermittent tension where it's, it's there, but then it disappears. And what this usually looks like is like shaking. Um, but it's on a scale, right? Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , like at the very low end, you get some occasional twitchiness. Okay. And then if it gets more and more severe, it's more like we get spasms, you know, they're not happening all the time, but Yeah, like sometimes I just get a jolt and it's hurts and it's like tense for a minute and mm-hmm . <affirmative> , then it calms down. And then a , a further example of this would be seizure, right? And of course there's other elements with that. We've got electrical activity in the brain, but it does lead to the muscles all clamping up, you know, super tight and intense in that really strong way. Skullcap , um, over the course of recorded history has been like a key herb or like a standout herb for that type of tension pattern mm-hmm. <affirmative> . Um, and it, and it has been very helpful in cases of seizure. And I don't just mean like a a hundred years ago, right, right. Like, we've had clients who , uh, dealing with epilepsy and related, you know , uh, neuro electrical problems mm-hmm. <affirmative> , um, and working with Skullcap , uh, getting a lot of relief, especially in combination with Beany and usually passion flower
Speaker 2:And then also other interventions as well, right ? Like, it's not like, oh, just take a squirt of skullcap tin share , your epilepsy goes away. Like no, you know, we're, you're working on, I improving the situation a little bit in every direction until you get to a place that is like, Hey, this is really quite improved, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there's food work to be done. How can we improve sleep and so on. Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's, there , there are a lot of avenues of approach, but, but skullcap, especially with Beny and really can be a big part of that work. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> .
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. But this could also be something that is a , a way for you to be like, when do I think of Skullcap? Right? When do I reach for it? Um, do you ever get that thing where you've had kind of an extra stressful day and then like, my eye just twitching? Yeah .
Speaker 2:<laugh> .
Speaker 3:And , and maybe you'd first notice it as kind of like a, like , why, why did I blink only on one side? Like, wait, what ? What's
Speaker 2:This little , or like, you maybe feel the muscle like this
Speaker 3:Little, little tremor, this little like tickle over here. Yeah. It might be time for skullcap <laugh> . Yeah,
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uhhuh <affirmative> . Like, you know, when we talk about lemon balm often I, I give it the little motto or like the bumper sticker heat stroke and things that look like heat stroke. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> . And so you could say that about skullcap, it could be like seizure and things that look like seizure. Um, and , uh, yeah, it's like, yeah , that, that one tiny little spasm of that muscle at your eyelid, I mean, in a very localized, teeny tiny little spot that is a teeny tiny little seizure, you know, it's seizure and things that look like seizure. So yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That combo of skullcap, passionflower and beany , uh, may be familiar to anyone who's been hanging out with us for a while because it is one that we gravitate back to over and over again. Um, it's usually like the foundation for a sleep formula or for a relaxing formula. Hmm . Because this can go in either of those directions and several others too. Right? Like, you could have those three. Yeah. They're all calming, they're all cooling in nature. They're all a little bit sedative, but not hypnotic, not gonna knock you out in the middle of your day.
Speaker 2:Remember that the , the word sedative in herbalism is not the same as the word sedative in pharmacology. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> . So when we say the word sedative about pharmaceuticals, the corresponding word in the herbal world is hypnotic sedative in the herbal world is , um, something that is very relaxing or strongly, strongly relaxing, but will not in and of itself make you sleepy. Yeah. Um, if you were not already sleepy, now you might be super behind on sleep and very tense. And if you relax that tension, suddenly you realize that the tension was the only thing keeping you awake. Mm-hmm . And so the result for you might be that you became very sleepy, but you can see where the difference is that, that the sleepiness was actually already there and you relaxed into it, as opposed to you got plenty of sleep, you're well rested , everything's fine, you took some passion flower , maybe some skull cap , and all you do is relax. You don't feel sleepy at that point.
Speaker 3:Yeah . Yeah. Absolutely. But see, we can take that combo, skull, cap , beany , passion flower . We can start with that. And then we can say, okay, I'm having, I'm , my main thing I'm dealing with is stress at work. So we're gonna have those in there to release some of that physical tension to keep you grounded, to keep you centered in your body and in the moment not kind of thrown into your worries and anxieties or you're like, I don't know, are they hovering? Are they watching me <laugh> ? That kind of feeling, but a little more calm , centered and relaxed. And then we can say, I would also benefit from like a little bit of mental focus and presence. So we could put in some tulsi and some ginkgo mm-hmm. <affirmative> . Right . And this formula overall is not gonna be sedative. I mean sleep inducing, I mean making you drowsy at work, you know, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , but it will sedate the excessive activation of your nerves. It will sedate the excessive vigilance you may be feeling in your mind. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , right ?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And like, if you are in that state, it's very uncomfortable. You would kind of like that state to be a little sedated. Yeah. But you, in terms of your ability to think clearly and drive a car are not, are not sedated. Right.
Speaker 3:But then on the other hand, if we take Skullcap Beany passion flower , and we combine that together with, I guess on the farther end, like Hops and California poppy mm-hmm . <affirmative>
Speaker 2:<laugh> . Right .
Speaker 3:That is a knock you out combo, right? Yeah. That is, you take that in the hour before bed and you see if you make it the whole hour,
Speaker 2:Yes. You will fall asleep. And, and again, same thing like we're going to , we're gonna reduce those feelings of anxiousness, reduce those repetitive thoughts, reduce the sort of like threat awareness or, or the other feelings that your anxiousness has brought into the situation, but also let's just on top of it have a little extra knockout because I really have to get myself to sleep. Yeah. Yeah .
Speaker 3:And maybe you're both of those people, right. And then now what you're gonna be doing is you're gonna have your, your nervy formula that you can take through the day, help you to work not too anxious, focused and present. You've got your sleep formula to help you in the nighttime, get me to sleep, sleep really well, wake up refreshed, but you're also getting skullcap all day long. Mm-hmm . Right ? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and now you're reaching that place where you're taking skullcap as a tropho restorative. Right. Something that's rebuilding healthy nerve function. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , you know , um, and we could say that too for Beany and I think passion flower also. So this is often a strategy that we like where there's continuity and also like saturation <laugh> , you know? Yeah . With one of those, one of those herbs that like skullcap, like it can have an immediate impact. You can feel the relaxation when you're in that really anxious moment, but also when you take it over the long term , there's this restoration and this strengthening of your nervous system and of your reaction to the world around you. Right. So being able to set it up like this where you can get it in the moment as you need it, it can help you to go to sleep. And we're also building that steady day in and day out intake to get this in , uh, at those, at those types of , um, exposure that's very successful. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:<affirmative>. Yeah. Yeah. Well there we GOCO cap . Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , all the things that you can do with Skullcap that don't involve wound care or quorum sensing inhibition. <laugh>. <laugh> .
Speaker 3:Yeah. That'll be a different podcast. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh> . So , um, we'll be back soon with another one. But , uh, before we go , uh, both of these herbs , um, important ravine , skullcap, important Adaptogen, kandra, these come up , um, regularly in our course. Uh, neurological and Emotional Health. Yes. This is a really good one. It
Speaker 2:Is like it's a good one . One of my favorite courses. Yeah . I really like it a lot . Yeah . Yeah. So you might really like it a lot as well. Um, this, that course, neurological and Emotional Health covers , um, pain management, it covers physiological nerve issues like MS. Fibromyalgia, Parkinson's, Bell's Palsy, all those kinds of things. And then all of the emotional and mental aspects of health. Um, so everything from autism, a , d, D, depression, anxiety , um, just the whole sort of gamut there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> . Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And we get into detail about the neurones and about the adaptogens and when does this one make more sense and when does that one be more helpful? And yeah . All of that kind of nuance. It helps you to get past, like, oh, get anything from that category right down to, this is a time when I really, really want Skullcap to be involved mm-hmm . <affirmative> , you know , um, those kind of things .
Speaker 2:So you can , you can make your formulas to be like super targeted to a very specific situation mm-hmm . <affirmative> because you learn the plants in that manner. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So like all our courses, this includes the video lessons, the MP threes, so you can take 'em as you go. PDFs and guides , uh, for you to peruse discussion threads, the access to our community and to our live q and a sessions. And remember it's lifetime access. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , so there's no rush <laugh> . And
Speaker 2:Everyone asks about certificates. Yes. There's a certificate and , um, there's , uh, there are assignments in there and little quizzes and stuff too, so Yeah . Yeah . All the good stuff. It's all in there. It's all
Speaker 3:There. All right. And you'll find that with all of our courses@online.commonwealthherbs.com. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:<affirmative> .
Speaker 3:All right . That's it for us. Take care of yourselves. Take care of each other. Drink some tea. Drink
Speaker 2:Some tea,
Speaker 3:And Oh, I didn't plan one for this. Um, keep your skulls in a schism. No, that's not it.
Speaker 2:No, that's not right. <laugh>. <laugh> . Um, what about Taste the Rainbow? Can we do something with taste? Because Schizandra is the closest thing to Skittles, pop Rocks , the , those kinds of candy flavors in the natural world, I have to say . Mm-hmm . <affirmative> .
Speaker 3:All right , we'll workshop it . We'll get one better for you next time .
Speaker 2:<laugh> .