Starting A Clinical Herbalism Business

We continue this week with Katja’s series: Starting Your Herbal Business! Today the focus is on the practice of clinical herbalism.

Building and running a practice as a clinical herbalist isn’t only about your interview skills, your ability to formulate a personalized remedy, or your capacity to build a holistic health plan in collaboration with your clients. Support work, research, and administrative tasks will take a fair amount of your attention – not to mention continuing education!

Clinical work involves a lot of teaching. You teach your clients how to prepare their remedies, you teach them how the herbs work, you teach them how to build healthier habits. So, our advice for cinical herbalists in training is: practice teaching!

To do all this, you need to understand the herbs on their own terms, but also in the context of modern life. That means common pharmaceuticals and potential herb-drug interactions need to be part of your education, too. It also means that you’ll need to be all brushed up on the legal status of herbalists, and the ways you navigate that. Here in the US, that means understanding our scope of practice as unlicensed practitioners, and your first priority is to avoid “the practice of medicine” according to your state’s laws.

Don’t let uncertainty keep you unsettled! You can build a practice and feel confident in your skills, and help a lot of people. Getting over the administrative hurdles will allow you to focus on the parts that drew you to this career in the first place: the people and the plants.

Ready to start building your practice? The Herbal Business Program has all the nitty-gritty details about setting up your herbal business – whether that’s products, clinical herbalism, or another variety of herbal pursuit. From GMPs and labeling laws, to marketing, to taxes & insurance, to the technology you’ll need to make it all happen, this course has everything. You can do this!

Like all our offerings, this is a self-paced online video course, which comes with free access to twice-weekly live Q&A sessions, lifetime access to current & future course material, twice-weekly live Q&A sessions with us, open discussion threads integrated in each lesson, an active student community, study guides, quizzes & capstone assignments, and more!

If you enjoyed the episode, it helps us a lot if you subscribe, rate, & review our podcast wherever you listen. This helps others find us more easily. Thank you!

Our theme music is “Wings” by Nicolai Heidlas.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

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Speaker 2: 0:14

Hi, I'm Ryn here at Commonwealth Holistic Urbanism in Boston, Massachusetts, and on the internet everywhere. Thanks to the power of the podcast. In this episode, we are continuing with Katya's series on herbal businesses. If you missed the earlier episodes, just scroll back in our podcast feed. This time, the focus is on the clinical practice of herbalism. So as always, the questions are, what do you do in that job? What do you need to learn to do it? Well, listen on, and you're gonna hear all of Katya's thoughts about it. We hope you like it. And by the way, if you're dreaming of an herbal practice of your own, we can help you build it. We have a whole herbal business program to guide you through from start to finish, even if you have no experience in running a business at all. And of course, we can teach you all of the herbal skills you're gonna need as well. You'll find everything@online.commonwealthherbs.com.

Speaker 3: 1:06

All right , well, it's been a minute since I made a podcast episode. Um, in this series of jobs you can do as an herbalist , uh, and what you will need to be able to do them and what those jobs are like. Uh, so today I wanna talk about working as a clinical herbalist or , um, integrating herbalism into your existing clinical practice, whatever that might be. Um, maybe it's , uh, mental health care. Maybe , maybe it is a personal trainer, maybe it's massage therapy, like whatever. Um, and <laugh> , part of the reason that , uh, this episode is so late in coming is because we have been filming a bunch of new videos for the clinical skills course, which is part of our clinical herbalist program. And I'm really excited about the updates that we're making to that course. And they're really topical with this , uh, with what we're talking about today , uh, working as a clinical herbalist. So let's jump in , uh, and talk about what it's like to be a clinical herbalist, what kind of work you will do, what kind of training you need to get there, all that good stuff. So let's start off with what you will do in the job. Like what will your work life be like? And honestly, I think that the most important part of your job as a clinical herbalist is , um, teaching and being a really effective teacher. But I'm gonna come back to that because that is incorporated in my advice for people who want to go into clinical practice. So I will spend a lot of time talking about that in the next section. Um, first I wanna just talk about nitty gritty details about all the different parts of the job of being a clinical herbalist. So obviously we'll start with seeing clients like the actual consultations, because I think when people think about clinical herbalism, obviously that's the thing that comes to mind most is sitting down with a client and talking to them and counseling them, getting information from them, collaborating with them. And this , uh, might happen in person or it might happen online, like over Zoom. Um, and there are pros and cons to both, both are very common, both are really effective ways to do the work. Um, and, and usually what I counsel people is that even if you plan to work in person and have a physical office that people come to for consultations, it is still really smart to be able to offer sessions over Zoom. Um, because even local people sometimes need that. Maybe they can't get childcare and they really need to have a session, but they are not able to take the time to get there because there's nobody watch to watch the kids. Or maybe they are immune compromised and they're trying to limit their exposure of going out into the world , um, or maybe they're disabled and that , uh, your space that you have is not accessible for whatever particular reason. Um, so there are lots of reasons more than that, even <laugh> , lots of reasons that , um, being comfortable and good at working over Zoom is really worth developing, even if you intend an in-person practice. But either way, that is like sitting with the person, talking with them, working through their health history and their health goals, and together with them coming up with a plan that's gonna help them feel better in their lives. So that is of course, like , um, a big, a big part of the job, but there's also a lot of support work for each consultation. Um, so there might be research time that you do before the session , um, based on what you see in the intake form. And , uh, so you may just do like preparation work to get ready so that you're ready to speak. Maybe the person takes pharmaceuticals that you're not familiar with, and so you spend time researching those. Um, maybe they wanna talk about some kind of health situation that you are not familiar with, you haven't worked with before. So you wanna do a little research before that. Um, and a lot of times research happens afterwards too, because things come up in the session. Even if you go in really prepared , um, things come up in the session that maybe you didn't think about or have never heard of before. And so you realize like, oh, okay, there's more research to do. Um, I think that research time is certainly equal to the amount of time you spend talking to clients, but honestly, I think it's probably more , um, I think like just hour for hour, you probably spend more time researching even than you spend actually talking to clients. It is just a really big part of the job. And honestly, I think that's great. Like you, you can't possibly know everything. And we're gonna talk a lot about training and the importance of being very well trained to do this work. But no matter how well trained you are, there's a lot of stuff you just can't know either because it's brand new. Like, you know, when Covid happened, nobody knew anything about Covid because it was brand new. Like literally it was impossible to have known about it. Well, you could know about the old sars uh, virus , um, but like, there was nothing to, you couldn't have known . You would've had to do a lot of research, right? So I think that Covid is a great example because a lot of times people feel like I have to know everything. The pressure is on me to know everything. And it's hard to imagine that it's okay to not know everything just because the pressure that we get from society and the role models in the medical system all say like, you should know everything, but come on, you know that doctors don't know everything. Um, and the ones who are willing to research what you need are the good ones, right? But some doctors aren't willing to take that time to research. We don't have that luxury . I don't think doctors have that luxury either. We have to research, but just, you know, if you are sitting there thinking like, well, no, I have to know everything. I think Covid is a great example because it was impossible to know about Covid before Covid happened. And if you realize that like, oh, well, yeah, of course, that I would, I would not be able to have known. That opens up for you a way to take the pressure off that there . It's okay that there are other things that you don't know. Um, the important part is not that you know every single thing, the important part is that you don't pretend that you know every single thing. Clients are going to come in with things you've never heard of, experiences you've never had. And I think this is fantastic. If you, if you are in a place of believing that you have to know everything, it's gonna make you very uncomfortable. And you're gonna have imposter syndrome basically all the time. But if you're in a place of like, Hey, I'm solid in my training. I know what I know, I know there are things I don't know, that puts you in this beautiful place of collaboration because a client comes in with tons of experience of what it is that they're trying to work on. And you have a lot of experience too, on whatever the things are that you have worked on in your life. And if you just acknowledge that, like you don't know everything, that opens you up to acknowledging that there are things your client knows that you don't know. And it puts you immediately into a collaboration space with your client. So right off the bat, just acknowledging that research is important and you cannot know everything, not only is good for our clients because it will serve them if we are researching in service for them. Um, but also it is good for you because that is the thing that protects you from imposter syndrome. That is the thing that keeps you out of that space of like thinking you have to know everything and puts you into that collaborative space with your client. So research, yes, yes, yes, yes. All right . And then you've done all that research, you've talked to your client, and now it is time for your like, aftercare support for your client, right? So that might be your follow up emails. It might be information sheets that you write, like PDFs or pages on your website or whatever that you write to help them through different strategies that are common. So for example , um, we often recommend for our clients that they do some assessment around food sensitivities. And so often we will recommend a whole 30 or , um, like a gluten and dairy elimination for a month, or it , you know, if we think it's egg, then we'll say, okay, well let's do an egg elimination for a month or whatever. And so it's really helpful if you have already written up , um, as a PDF or as a page on your website support for people who are gonna do a whole 30 or who are going to eliminate gluten and what are the, what are your favorite substitute products and you know, all that kind of stuff. So when you write follow up emails to a specific client like that is , is very targeted to that particular client. But you also have this like support time where you may be producing materials that will help lots of clients that you will use over and over again. Uh , so all of that is support work and then all the future correspondence that you have with a client. Um, and however everybody sets that up in their practice a little bit differently. Um, but that correspondence that happens in between the , the session and the next session , um, you know, that's all support time too. So you see the clients, you do the research, you have the support time, and then of course there's administrative work, which maybe that's not the most thing, but every job has administrative work and it has to happen. Um, so this is your marketing and advertising and building your client base, all the regular business stuff, maintaining your website, your social media presence. Also your legal due diligence falls into this administrative category. Um, if herbalists were licensed, that would be called maintaining your licensure. Um, and there are things that licensed professionals have to do to maintain their license, but we are not licensed , um, herbalists are not licensed in the United States. Uh, so our work there falls on falls not just on doing the continuing education credits that all licensed professionals have to do to maintain their license. Well, of course we're gonna do continuing ed education too, 'cause it's just a really good idea. But also like making sure that you're not practicing medicine without a license, making sure that you're staying within the scope of practice , um, that is legal in your state and also federally , um, the definition of the practice of medicine is state mandated. So wherever you live, you will , um, check those laws and just make sure that your practice is staying in its scope. That's our legal due diligence that, that we are , um, you know, it's important to do. Um, and if you are a licensed professional and you are incorporating herbalism into your business, then you will be maintaining your license on one hand, but also , um, maintaining your unlicensed work and making sure that the laws in your state , um, that, that you are abiding by the laws between your license and your unlicensed work. And in some states that means that you need to separate them. In some states you can mush them together and that's fine. Um, so all of that kind of legal stuff falls under administrative work and like, you know, accounting and paying your taxes and all that good stuff. Okay, so we'll get a little bit more into all that administrative stuff when we talk about training. And , um, you don't have to just magically know how to do all that by yourself ahead of time. Uh , you should be well trained on how to do all of the administrative work and all the legal stuff that you have to do. So don't worry, you don't have to just magically know that. We'll get to that. All right ? But I wanted to talk about , um, I wanted to come back to that idea of teaching and talk about , um, like a piece of advice for people who are working as clinical herbalists. And my piece of advice here, or my awareness, my piece of awareness is that the most important part of your job as a clinical herbalist is teaching. And I could say that a few more times, <laugh> just for you to like hear it because it's really, really important. And you might be thinking, well, yeah, but isn't the most important part of the job, like staying up to date and being well educated. And yes, that stuff is super important and you definitely should do that. But , um, if you are like the most well-educated and the most up-to-date person, but you can't teach it to your client, then you, you won't be effective. Like all of the education that we do as clinical herbalist, all of the learning, all of the studying, all of the mentorship, all of everything that we put into developing our skills, the purpose of all of that is so that we can communicate it to another human. Um, and so every clinical herbalist is a teacher. It's just that , um, instead of teaching in front of a whole room full of people, you're teaching one-on-one in a very personalized way. You are finding all of the information in your head , um, that is relevant to this one person you're sitting with in the moment and thinking about how to organize that information, how to order it and prioritize it, and then how to share it with the person that you're working with so that they can effectively make it a part of their lives. And the thing is that the clients that you're working with, they're not full-time herbalists, they're not necessarily even part-time herbalists. They have a day job. They probably are taking care of kids or a household or a family or elder parents or whatever else. And , um, they have just things going on in their lives and they don't necessarily already know how to make a long infusion and they don't necessarily already know about this and that herb and what the , what they'll do in the body. And they don't necessarily already understand the ties between the types of food that they're eating and their baseline inflammation levels and like all the other things, all the, all the million, billion things that are relevant to their health. A lot of clients come in and maybe they've tried a lot of things and their attempts haven't worked because also nobody, like outright teaches people how to experiment. And so maybe they've tried things, but the way that they set up their personal experimentation wasn't, wasn't like set up in the way to guarantee them success. And so some of the things that they tried may be worth trying again, but all of this, we have to explain it to them in a way that's relevant to their lives and their understanding and their goals and their priorities and their needs. And that is a skill like that is not something that you're necessarily born with, but it is something that, I mean, some people I guess are just natural communicators, sure. But it is something that you can develop and that you can develop the ability to do it on your feet, right? Because when you're sitting with someone, you're hearing information, you're, you're getting their story, ideas are coming into your head, you're starting to like synthesize those ideas into a plan. All that is great and it can be the best plan in the world, but now it is. Now how am I going to explain it to this person using what I know about this person? Which might only be 45 minutes of conversation by the time that you start explaining it might be a person that you've just met for the very first time. Um, and so that skill of like taking in everything you can about the person and then teaching everything that you want them to know in the context of their habits and their life and their styles and what things will be motivating to them, that if you spend time developing that skill, you are going to be a very successful clinical herbalist. Very, very successful. And if not, if you're just like, okay, well I've listened to everything and here's my list of things you should do, that's not going to be as helpful. Some people will do the things on the list, but it's if a person understands why they're doing things and what that will get them, like, Hey, if I drink a quart of this tea every day , it's gonna get me this result. Uh, I am a person who is super, super dry and I , um, I'm not, but like I'm imagining being this person, I'm actually, I run pretty damp, but okay, let's just imagine this person, they run super dry, they're having trouble with constipation, but also lots of other dryness symptoms like their mucosa in general is uncomfortably dry and whatever else. And you just tell them they need to drink marshmallow root, cold infusion, that's fine. But if you really explain to them about the, the mucilaginous action of the marshmallow root, and it's gonna be a cold infusion and it's gonna get kind of slimy and and velvety, and they're gonna drink that and it's gonna help the water stay in their body better, it's gonna hydrate them. It's gonna bring in some mineral content along with the water and some electrolyte content along with the water and, and really be soothing to all of the mucus membranes. And so if they make this quarter day and they drink it throughout the day, within a week, they're gonna start feeling like their eyes aren't so dry anymore and it's gonna really start moisturizing and nourishing the digestive tract. So it's gonna make the constipation reduce . And you know, all those things, if you can get across to them, here's what this is gonna get for you, they're gonna be so much more motivated to actually do the stuff that might seem a little weird to them . You know, I mean, marshmallow root, cold infusion, the first time you drink that, especially if it's a really viscous one, like a really thick one, it's kind of weird at like, listen, I'm an herbalist, but I'll say it, it's kind of weird. And , um, herbalists are pretty, you know, usually used to weird bitter things and weird just things that are outside of like normal, normal, everyday modern cuisine I suppose. But for a lot of people, it'll be the first time they've ever consumed something like that. If they know what it will get them, if they know what it will do for them , uh, that's so much more motivating. And one other factor that I think is really important when we think about teaching as clinical herbalists , um, is that that is a transfer of power. When we teach clients things, they now know what we know and okay, it would take a really long time for, for you to teach a client every single thing that you know, but the stuff that's relevant to what's going on for them right now, yes, that gives them power. That gives them long-term motivation. If they understand what's going on in their body and how the strategies that you're recommending are going to help, as opposed to just saying, here, do this, it will help you, but they really understand how it all, how it all started, how it all got there, and how we're going to resolve it with the strategies that you're recommending, then that's something that they can keep for the rest of their lives. And anytime that they get back into this sort of situation, they have the knowledge now to, to work on that on their own. Okay? They might need a reminder, but, but they have that knowledge it is going to help them so much to stick with it and not like fall off the wagon if a client does something just 'cause Katya says so, or whoever you are, just because you say so. Like that motivation doesn't last very long, but if they do it because they really understand what it will get them, they're doing it because they say so they're doing it because they're bought in and everything for me about working with clients is that power shift. You know, I think that when so many people go to see conventional medical practitioners, there is a power imbalance where the practitioner has all the power and the patient is just like , uh, I don't know. Can you just tell me what to do? And that's some like that we are trained into that sort of scenario bec because we grow up in this system, and so we're trained to see them as experts and as authorities and that we need to do what they tell us. And even in our speech that comes across like, oh, my doctor has me on satin drugs or like, whatever. People say that all the time. And I always wanna challenge that because your doctor isn't showing up in the morning and putting that in your mouth and then making you swallow it. I mean, you know, if you're in the hospital, they do come and give it to you and whatever, but like, you know, you're just a person, you're going through your day, your doctor doesn't have you on that, you have you on that, you're the one who's taking it. And, but we just, we've, we've internalized that subjugation so much that it's even just in our speech about how we talk about conventional medicine. And it doesn't have to be, not every doctor likes that set up , but it is just the way the system is is kind of built. And that goes back to the history of the system and , uh, class structure and uh, you know, all kinds of stuff. But , um, who was allowed to be a doctor and who wasn't allowed to be a doctor? And, and yeah, okay, well anyway, that's like a whole separate history lesson, but , um, but as herbalist, first off, we are not licensed and we are not doctors and we don't wanna act like we're licensed or like we're doctors. Um, but also it isn't just like, well, I'm supposed to preach , I'm supposed to tell you that I'm not a doctor, but I can cure you, I can heal you, I can whatever. Like, no, that is not what we're doing. I joyously am not a doctor. I joyously am not practicing medicine. I joyously am collaborating with my clients on experimenting to find what works best for their body and how they can be most comfortable in their lives and even how we can collaborate with their medical professionals so that if they are , um, taking pharmaceuticals that are helping them, that we can support them in that. Like it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Um, and so that collaboration is what I really wanna foster. And that is an equalizing of power that is like at all times trying to, trying to give back to the client the power that is actually theirs, the autonomy that is actually theirs in regard to their health and what they do about it. Um, and so I I I just think that that whole aspect of teaching, just putting some stuff out on the table and hey, okay, you have told me what your experience is like, and I'm gonna talk to you about everything I know that could be helpful, and now you know that stuff too. And so now it's all here on the table and we can put it all together like a puzzle and we can come up with a plan and then we try the plan and see if it works, and then we make adjustments and in whatever, you know, needs to be adjusted to get it to be just right for you. But it is that like collaboration that is the equalizer of power. And , um, so yeah, so for , for all of these reasons , um, I really think that teaching and developing your skill as a teacher , um, is the most important part of your skill development as a clinical herbalist. So every other thing that you learn is like all of the background stuff so that you can then learn to be a good teacher and, and collaborate well and have a lot of success with your clients. Whew . All right . Well then let's talk about all of the training that you should get to be a clinical herbalist. Um, I, that kind of sounds intimidating when I say it like that. Um, but also I don't think that's inappropriate. I mean, you shouldn't be intimidated. Um, but it's, this is not like a weekend workshop. This is not that you're gonna do like a nine month apprenticeship and you're gonna be ready to be a clinical herbalist. This is years and years of training. Um, and I think it's important to, to just have that at the outset. If, if you are really gonna help people with who knows what is gonna walk through your door, it it just takes a lot of training. Um, so you can help your neighbors and help your friends and help in, in smaller ways, much earlier in your training when you really wanna be a clinical herbalist, then that's, it is , it is a lot of training. So I think just setting yourself up for that right in the beginning and just acknowledging that, like, you know, doctors go to school for a kabillion, gillion years and nurses go to school for all those years and like all these different practitioners go to school for all these years, and it's reasonable for us to also do that. Like, sure, herbs might not be totally hard, but human health is very challenging. Um, so, so yeah, so well trained it is important. Um, and you, so you're gonna need training in all the herbal skills as well as training in how to do a consultation , um, and all the support work and all the follow up and everything, training in practice management, so how to be legal, how to do marketing, how to, like, everything in between. Um, you will need a very strong focus in herb drug interactions, and that is really intimidating for a lot of people. Um, some people feel pretty nervous about pharmaceuticals, and so they just think, well, I just will avoid it. You know, I just kind of won't go there. But listen, training is the answer. Um, actually training is the answer anytime that you're thinking like, oh man, that makes me really uncomfortable, or that makes me really nervous. Training always is the answer because it takes away that nervousness, but especially with herb drug interactions these days , um, most people are taking pharmaceuticals and it's very hard to run a practice and not encounter pharmaceuticals. So it just really, and also I think that it's important to recognize that if you're working with whole herbs and just like tea and stuff, okay, that's one thing. But as soon as you start recommending any kind of like , um, uh, like super potent extract of something now that also has a higher likelihood of interaction or adverse effects or whatever else , um, I think like a good example is these really super high powered turmeric capsules with black pepper, or even not with black pepper, but just with the piperine in it. And , um, and they're like so much more powerful than what you would just eat naturally , um, naturally, like what you would just eat if you were having like turmeric and pepper and other herbs in curry or something like that. Um, and we're starting to develop a pretty strong body of evidence that those high powered supplements , um, can cause liver damage. And so just recognizing that like it's the , the herb drug interactions and the herb safety aspect of things, it's really inescapable now. It, you know, back in the eighties and, and maybe even in the nineties, you could practice and just be like, well, I probably won't have to work with anybody who's taking medications, but that's just not, it's, it's not possible anymore. Everybody who comes for help will be taking something. Um, it'll, it'll be lovely but rare when you work with a client who doesn't take a pharmaceutical. So , um, don't be nervous about it, don't be scared about it. Don't be out there thinking like, I don't know, pharmacology is really scary and all that other stuff. Doctors don't know much about herb drug interactions, and it's really on us as herbalists to pick up the slack because they're, they're not doing it. Pharmacists don't know much about herb drug interactions. So in order to keep our clients safe, we have to be the ones who really know and who make safe recommendations. Um, and often we have to be the ones educating medical practitioners who our clients are working with. Um, so that, that's also important. Like you don't have to be afraid of your client's doctor. You can collaborate with your client's doctor, and when you have the training, then you won't feel nervous about that. You won't be like, oh my goodness, imposter syndrome or like any of those other things, you'll just communicate to them as a professional, one professional to another. Um, or you will give your client the appropriate information so that they can advocate for themselves , um, in a professional manner, in a way that the doctor will recognize and understand and, okay, well anyway, for all of these reasons, don't neglect your herb drug interaction and herb safety training, even though it's like, I know you got into herbalism because you don't like that stuff. But , um, training is the answer yes. And then your training really needs to include mentorship, live, personal mentorship , um, because it's not just about learning each individual skill. There also is just so much guidance about how to put that into practice. And every single client that you work with is different, every body is different. And so having guidance as you take everything you've learned and apply it this way for that client and this other way for this client over here , and then yet another way for the next client, that's challenging. And so having a mentor who can help you through that process is key. Now, when you look for a mentor , um, you may not find one in your area to work with in person . That's not a problem. Um, mentors will work online. We have a mentorship program and that's done online. It's still live . We work with each of our students personally. Um, but we just do it over zoom so it doesn't really matter where you are. Um, and there are other mentors who do that as well. Um, so when you're looking for a mentor, look for someone who will go over all of your clients with you, who will answer any questions that you have about every case that you're taking , um, who gives you time to like talk about all your cases and, and really hear all your questions about like, okay, well I worked with this person, I'm really not sure where to take this case from here. Um, and then also someone who will encourage you to review all of your own client files regularly , uh, and even go through that process with you. This is really important when you work with clients, that's just one moment in time that's just like, okay, well last Tuesday I worked with this person and this is what I came up with for them. But a month from now , or two months from now at the end of the quarter or whatever else, you might have different ideas. You might have different thoughts about what you could have done for that person. So set up time and preferably with your mentor that you can on a regular basis go back through your client files and say like, oh, I could have done this differently. Or What could I have done differently for this client because I, they never came back for a follow up . I think I didn't really serve them well. What could I have done differently? How could I have come up with some other kind of idea that would have helped them better? Okay. So all that kind of stuff. Um, and even just, you know, not just launching into practice without seeing it first, you should be able to observe other clinical herbalists working with clients and seeing what that looks like and how that process plays out and how it goes through multiple follow ups . Um, all of that is stuff that if you watch it first, it gives you that context of how do you set up a consultation? How , what is the flow of the session? How does it change and shift from person to person that you work with? Um, and so being able to observe all of that and then try it out while they're observing you and able to tell you like, okay, make this change. Oh, okay, you could have done this differently. Or, Hey, how did it feel when you said this? Did that feel better than last time? And, you know, all that kind of stuff, whatever it happens to be. Um, and then, right, and then that they'll go through all of your cases with you. So that's what you're looking for when you're looking for a mentor. All right , so, and just, you know, another reminder that , um, herbalism is unregulated because herbalism is unregulated. It is up to us to keep our clients and ourselves and each other safe. Or in other words, if you operate outside the law, you aren't just endangering yourself. That's not just a risk that you take on yourself. That's a risk for all of us as herbal practitioners. Um, because if somebody does something really egregious and then there are big lawsuits about it and whatever else, that's how , um, that's how the need for regulation comes. And although on one hand, regulation brings with it a certain amount of legitimacy, you know, like , um, and recognition on the other hand, it brings with it a great deal. More cost, a lot , a loss of freedom. Uh, like there's a lot of cons with regulation. So I personally think that we are better off working unregulated , um, because we have more freedom. But also, I like not being licensed, I like communicating to my clients, Hey, I'm an educator. I am not a licensed medical professional. That means that you need to be engaged in what we're doing. You need to be the one deciding if this is right for you. I'm gonna tell you everything I know you're gonna tell me the stuff that you're experiencing, we're gonna put 'em together, but you're the one in the driver's seat. You're the one who gets to say, that doesn't sound good to me. That doesn't sound right to me. I want you to do more research so that I feel comfortable with this, or I want you to do more research and find me a different way when a client knows that I'm not licensed. That is a call to engagement for them. And it's also just a very overt reminder for them that they can say no anytime and they should feel great. Like totally free to exercise that. So, so, okay. I don't think it is a drawback to be unregulated, but it does come with risk. And so it is important to know the laws to operate within the laws even if you don't like them. And to not practice medicine without a license. Do not give advice about pharmaceuticals. Do not tell a person not to take their pharmaceuticals. Do not , um, tell a person they don't need that surgery. You know, whatever. There's so much work that falls into our legal scope of practice so much we can do that. I don't find any need to be reaching outside of that scope to do things that aren't legal for me. Um, and so I , I like, I don't think it's bad we're unregulated except that because we're unregulated, we all have to really take our work seriously. Not just for ourselves, but for the whole community. And the thing is , um, PE clients will come to you and ask you, they will say things like, I wanna stop taking my drugs. Can you help me do that? Like, I wanna stop taking statin drugs. Can you help? And then we have to educate about why we can't actually help with that. I mean, we can support them through that process, but in terms of like actually the getting off the drug part, then that's the work they're gonna have to do with their medical provider, with their prescribing practitioner. We can support them to be their healthiest selves and to make some really great choices that can support their cardiovascular health. But, and that's, I , it's so important. That is such important work. It's also work that doctors don't have time to do. They don't have time to do a ton of education. They just, in this example that I'm making up here, okay, well, statin drugs must be the answer. 'cause they don't have time to explain about canola oil versus olive oil versus, you know, like whatever. They have too many patients that they have to see every day . 'cause there just aren't enough primary care physicians. Um, so you know, those like education about how Hawthorne helps provide anthocyanins that , um, support the, the vasculature and the health of the actual muscles of the arterial walls and all that kinda stuff. That's stuff that we can do. And we don't have to really drop into that place of practicing medicine without a license. But we do often have to explain that to our clients about where those boundaries are. The other thing is that when people find out that you are prac , that you are studying clinical herbalism, they want to be your client already. Like before you're ready, they want to pressure you to jump right into practice. Um, and that's awesome. That's enthusiasm that they want answers. Now that is great. Don't do it. Um , really resist that urge. You can still help people, but do it under the guise of being a student. Like stay in that student place while you are a student. Don't rush yourself into practice. First off, you don't need that pressure. Like, you don't have to put the cart before the horse. You don't have to run before you walk or you know, I don't know, whatever, whatever. Um, like metaphor is appropriate here. All of society is pressuring everyone to go faster, produce more, like do more with less, all that stuff. You don't have to put that pressure on yourself and telling people, no, I'm not seeing clients yet. I'm still a student. Does not mean that you can't help them because the next set sentence can be. But I'm happy to work with you with what I know and talk to my teachers and like see if we can collaborate and come up with something based on the information that I have so far. Like we can do some experiments together. You could even be helping me learn actually, if you're willing to be a Guinea pig, there's a lot of really excellent benefit and interaction that can happen with people who want you to do this work for them without feeling the need to just go ahead and jump into clinical practice before you're ready. That part, that's where you get imposter syndrome and where it's uncomfortable and, and all like always those creeping feelings coming in. But when you're talking, when you're like, Hey, well , uh, no, I can't work with you as a client 'cause I am not a clinical herbalist yet. I'm a student. I , you know, I have been studying about that thing you just asked me about and I can't give you all the answers, but I'm happy to tell you what I know and we can do some experiments and that's gonna help me learn more and it might help you too. So, you know, I'm helping happy to help you at the student level and let's just try that for now and see what happens. It's cool because that takes all the pressure off you, it leaves you open to always be able to say, okay, well that's actually the end of what I know I told you I was still a student. Um, but hey, I'll ask my teachers and I'll see if I can find out more. And also my school runs a free clinic. Like you could also come and talk to my teachers about that or work in free clinic or , um, you know, something like that. If, if your herb school does that. Ours we do. Um, and we also have a student clinic, but , um, but it just takes all the pressure off you. And the other thing about that is that if you jump into clinical practice too early, not only are you feeling like all this pressure and uncertainty and imposter syndrome, but that's a risk for you as a business person as well because what if then it like, you're not able to help that person. And word gets around that like, oh, I don't know , they're studying but they're not very good at it and um, or I saw this person and they're not good at it. And then like two years from now, you are ready to, or however long from now you are ready to start your practice. But there are people who worked with you when you weren't really ready yet, and they have negative opinions about the work that you do that's going to impact your ability to build a strong client base. But if you're a student and you're learning and people in your life are pressuring you to go ahead and take clients now, and you hold that boundary and say, I'm not taking clients yet because I'm still learning, but I will tell you what I know and we can learn together, that is like pre-marketing because they're seeing the experimentation and they're learning the process and they're learning about what this work is like. And it's okay that you maybe come to the end of your knowledge at some point, maybe even before all their questions are answered, because you've already announced that you're a student. And if they will continue to work with you and you continue to like, have a good relationship with them and say like, Hey, you know, I'm learning this other cool thing now I wonder if you'd be willing to be a Guinea pig for me. They're seeing you grow, their confidence in you is building as your skillset is building. And so when you set it up that way, you're actually setting yourself up for success because they have seen your skills develop over time instead of them seeing your skills in their not fully developed state and thinking that's all you've got. And then thinking that your practice isn't really very valuable. So , um, both from the perspective of let things be comfortable for you, don't put that pressure on yourself, but also from the perspective of building your clinical practice, just giving yourself the space to be a student while you're a student and not have to jump right into practice , um, is a luxurious gift that you can give yourself that will also really help build your practice when you are to that point. Okay? So also let's think about if you already have a practice, you are a nutritionist, you are a personal trainer, you're a massage therapist, you are a talk therapist, you're , you know, like whatever. Um, and you want to start incorporating herbalism into your work educationally, it's still basically the same just because you are some kind of a licensed practitioner already or like even you might be a nurse or a pharmacist or a doctor, you don't really get to skip any steps. You still need the full herbal training because if you're gonna incorporate herbalism, you can't just, you can't just pick like one little thing to plug in there. You really need to understand the system. It's sort of, it's sort of like how absurd the opposite is like, well, I'm a clinical herbalist, but I'm just gonna include a few little surgical procedures like that. That's absurd, right? Like you, that just sounds so silly. Um, and so it needs it , we need to recognize that it's also silly in the other direction. Um, so, so you don't try to skip any steps, start at the beginning and, and learn everything that you need to learn so that you are a competent clinical herbalist in your own right and as well as a competent, skilled like talk therapist or whatever else. Like, it's kind of like becoming an interpreter before you can be an interpreter. You have to be fluent in two languages at least you could have more. You need to know the whole of the language that you're translating into and the whole of the language that you're translating out of. You can't just know a little bit about the language that you're translating from as long as you know a lot about the language that you're translating to , that doesn't make any sense, right? You need to know both languages fluently so that you can mush them together and do your work as an interpreter. The same thing here as a licensed practitioner who wants to add clinical herbalism to their practice, you need to know both systems, whatever your license is, and clinical herbalism in their entirety as freestanding disciplines so that you can then join them together effectively, fluidly , um, and be able to serve your clients in the best way possible. So don't, don't skip any steps, is what I'm saying. Um, and then the other thing here is that to just remember, I, I said this at the top, but just to emphasize it, again, if you are a licensed practitioner , um, your license might come with some restrictions. And this is gonna depend on the state that you are licensed in , um, and the type of practitioner you are. Some licenses are very, very broad and there is no problem whatsoever with integrating herbalism at all . Some licenses are rather strict. And there , there are some problems with integrating herbalism with that license, which does not mean that you cannot work as an herbalist. It just means that you may have to keep the two license or the two practices separate to protect your license. Um, and again, that is not based on what kind of license you have, it is based on the state you live in. So if you're an RN in Idaho or New Hampshire or Massachusetts or wherever your laws may be, one thing, if you're an RN in Florida, your laws may be another thing. Florida is a state that actually has pretty strict laws for , um, nurses. Uh, and so whatever, like it isn't about the license level, the license type, it's about the state. And so , um, your, your board of licensure is also in your state and you may have , um, as part of your board, like a holistic association, like Holistic Nurses Association or holistic therapist Association, whatever. Um, and you may not, but you might. And so you can talk to them. Uh, you can also ask wherever you're getting your training, wherever you're, you are being trained , um, both as an herbalist and wherever you got your training for your license, you can ask them and of course, just read the law as well and that will help you. But that is something that you should be taught in your clinical herbalist training at least. Um, they may not think to teach that to you in the training that you got for your license, but your herbal training should cover that. All right , let's talk about what kind of training you need. We've spent all this time just saying training, training. Let's talk about what kind of training that you need. Um, so you need the full spectrum of training in herbalism at our school. That is the Family herbalist program, the community herbalist program, the clinical herbalist program, and then clinical mentorship. And, you know, when we started our school, we named them that way because , um, we originally had it with like numbers like herbalism one, herbalism two, like whatever that , that , that just wasn't very awesome. And so we were trying to find a set of names that showed that it like built that everything built on itself. And I'm not sure that we really succeeded in that. Um, because in , in our school, like everything that is in community, you need the family knowledge to be able to do it. And everything that is in clinical, you need the community knowledge to be able to do it. Like it all builds on itself. Um , and the reason that I'm saying this is because there are lots of different herb schools out there, and lots of herb schools have like a community herbalist program or a family herbalist program. Um, or lots of herb schools might use the words beginner, advanced, oh, beginner, intermediate, advanced. Um, and even there are some schools that are running clinical programs, but it's important to recognize that they are not equal, they are not the same. Um, they're not teaching the same material and they don't provide the same level of preparation. So don't just go on the name, talk to the school, talk to them a lot. Um, they should be very happy to answer your questions in a very straightforward way. They should not be hiding information. I mean, it's one thing if they don't understand the question and it takes 'em a a minute to like get the answer right? I'm not, I'm not like , uh, being too critical here, but like, if you feel like you're getting a runaround, that's a red flag before you consider a school, you should also check their free material so that you see if the way that they teach is actually good for your learning skills. Um, you see if you're actually aligned with the priorities of that school and the values of that school so that you can see if you just like the sound of their voice, you know, <laugh> , like whatever. If you're gonna be listening or watch listening to material as an, as a video , as an audio file, or watching it as a video file , um, you know, do, do you find the voice grading? Like that's a silly thing, but like all these things are part of how you learn or if it's a, a like reading based curriculum. Do you , do you find the writing style, you know, comfortable to learn from? It should not. How like, like a serious program should not be a reading based program. There are some schools that do like a, like here's a giant PDF and you can learn all the stuff from the PDF and that's fine, but that's not education. That's like books. Um, that's supplemental you when you really wanna do clinical work. You're, you need , um, ultimately in the end you need that personal attention, that personal mentorship , um, in the end to make sure that you really do actually have all the knowledge and that it's all integrated. Well, the other thing to really recognize is that schools practice different styles of urbanism and they're not necessarily , um, interchangeable. So you may have started your practice in a school that focuses heavily on Ayurvedic inspired herbalism , um, and then you may want to go and do some clinical training, but the school that you wanna do clinical training at , um, does not practice Ayurvedic style herbalism. And so that, that won't be a compatibility , um, in our school , uh, clinic, and I think probably most clinics feel this , schools who run clinics feel this way. We wanna make sure that all of our , um, clients are receiving compatible recommendations, compatible information from all of our student practitioners because they bring family members, they bring their friends, they, you know, like a , a person and her sister may both sign up for a free clinic session. And if they get drastically different advice that doesn't inspire confidence in them, and also it makes it hard for them to , um, like collaborate in their lives together. Um, or often people will have a session with one student and then they will choose to have a session with another student. But if they get drastically different advice, like one of them is coming from a vitalism perspective and one of them is coming from an Ayurvedic perspective, then it's sort of, it's, it can be just really confusing for people who don't know very much about herbalism and don't understand that there are these different schools of practice, these different , um, like philosophies of practice. Um, so all, what all of that means is that when you go to get your clinical training, you may find that just because you have done your lower level training at another school, that doesn't necessarily translate into a clinical program in the same way. And , um, there's no need to be disappointed about that. Um, and you don't need to feel like, oh, now I have to throw all that out and start over. Actually, it's the opposite of that. The more that you know, the better because every client is different and different things will work for every client and they're gonna have different experiences and you are gonna be trying to speak to them and explain things to them in a way that is motivating and comfortable for them. And so the more experiences you can draw on to do that kind of knowledge transfer, the better actually. So if you have come from a school that does not have a clinical program and you want to transfer to a school that does, and you find that you have to like start at a level that feels like a step back for you, that's not actually necessarily a step back, it is a step broadening, right? It is just broadening all of your experience. Um, and if you know that ahead of time and kind of expect that that is likely , um, then instead of feeling disappointed that like, oh, this is gonna take me longer than I thought. Um, instead you can realize like, oh, this is gonna take however long it takes and when I get to the end of it, I'm actually gonna be able to explain things across a multitude of systems and that's actually gonna be a real benefit for my practice. Um, so looking at it that way I find is both accurate and also less frustrating , um, as well. And, and then , uh, the other thing that is important in terms of training is that , um, running a clinical practice is a business. And so if you don't have any business training, if you've never run your own business before or you don't have any , um, like skills at that, that's fine. There , there's no problem with that. That's not like, like they don't teach it in school. It's not like you should just magically know how to do that, but you should get training for that. Um, so a business program will be really important and it's best if you take a business program that is specifically for herbalists. Um, like the small businesses administration or your local chamber of commerce or whatever. They often run like little business programs to help people who are starting businesses, but they're very oriented towards , um, like retail or, you know, service or whatever. And, and the thing is that they don't know the laws about running an herbal business. So sometimes their counsel about how you should market or how you should this or how you should, that it is not entirely translatable into our legal landscape. Um, and so it is ideal if you take a business program yeah , at an herb school that is a well-developed business program, but also is operating within the herbal laws already, or the laws that regulate herbalism or don't already. All right ? So that is , uh, running a clinical herbalism practice in a nutshell. Um, certainly there are questions that you have or things that I left out because they just seem pop into my mind in the moment. And if that is the case, just ask, it's totally fine. You can always email us at info@commonwealthherbs.com. We are always happy to answer your questions. You'll find links in the show notes. Um , and if there's anything that we can do to help you and support you in this journey, then let us know. Because this world needs more clinical herbalists. People need care and they need people who are trained to provide it . And the care that we provide as herbalists is not the same as conventional medical care. It is unique and really, really needed in this world. So , um, if this kind of work appeals to you, if you already kind have the the drive to do it, then yes, okay, it's gonna take a minute to get all the training you need, but really jump in because it is such a necessary thing for our entire society. Um , we just , we need, we need more clinical herbalist.

Speaker 2: 1:02:06

That's it for this episode of the Holistic Herbalism Podcast. This show is produced and edited by us, Rin and Katya . If you like what you hear, check out our online herbalism school. All of our courses are taught primarily by video lesson, so you can watch at your own pace. Each has an accompanying MP three, so you can take your learning on the go . There are PDF files with quick guides and key information. Every lesson has an integrated discussion thread where you can ask your questions and get a faculty response within a day. Uh , courses come with access to a lively community space, kind of like social media, but herbal and therefore better. Plus access to twice weekly live q and a sessions. And all of this is yours for lifetime access. There's no ticking time limit for you to take in all the material so you can take your time. Instead, you'll find everything we have@online.commonwealthherbs.com.