MICE Conversations: a podcast for the Meetings, Incentive Travel, Conferences and Events industry
MICE Conversations: a podcast for the Meetings, Incentive Travel, Conferences and Events industry
#2: MICE Conversations - Ken Lyons, KL Communications Ireland
Episode #2. 'MICE Conversations'. Michael Collins, TravelMedia.ie, in conversation with Ken Lyons, Director at KL Communications in Dublin, Ireland. Ken Lyons sits on the Board of SITE International. Ken currently works as an independent advisor to the MICE industry in Ireland and internationally. Prior to his current role Ken worked at some of Ireland's best known hotels including The Westbury, The Marker and the Ritz-Carlton, Powercourt. Interview recorded Friday 19th March 2021.
About Ken Lyons, Director, KL Communications, Ireland.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethlyons/
https://www.klc.ie
Topics and questions, timeline or video chapters.
00:00 - Intro
01:15 - Can you bring us up to speed on what you are doing right now and what you’ve been doing the last couples of years? SITE board member and going back to college.
02:37 - How the pandemic has affected you, running your own company? Are you seeing any signs of life?
08:12 - Ken, you are on the board of SITE International. What are you seeing from a SITE perspective? What is SITE doing to help the industry re-open?
11:13 - What can CVBs and buyers alike do to help?
15:13 - Flexibility on both sides when it comes to contracts. Yes, now, but going forward?
20:21 - Sustainability and diversity. Is there genuine interest in the MICE industry?
24:56 - Ireland. This year or next year when things open up?
26:39 - Positive or pessimistic going forward?
TravelMedia.ie run Ireland's only outbound MICE networking event, the MICE Meetup Dublin.
https://www.travelmedia.ie/mice-meetup-dublin/
(upbeat music)- Hello everybody, it's Michael Collins here again from TravelMedia.ie and also the Dublin Mice MeetUp. On screen, you can see beside me, I have Ken Lyons. Many of you in Ireland will know Ken very well. He is currently Director of KL Communications, a Dublin based marketing and sales agency. And Ken is also into year two of a three-year stint on the Board of Directors for SITE International. So Ken, thank you very much for joining us. Great to see you again, it's been awhile.- It has been awhile Michael, thanks for having me. A lot has happened since we last spoke that's for sure.- Hasn't it just? I think that's the idea of these mice conversations. It's a chance to catch up. It's the, I suppose on the side coffee chats or bar chat that we would have at IMAX and all those other conferences that we're so used to going to. So it is very much the idea of these MICE conversations. So we've known each other a long time. It must be what, seven, eight years now since we were running events, ourselves at the Westbury hotel and that's where you were based. So I wonder if you can just bring people up to speed on what you've been doing over the last number of years and what you're doing right now.- Yeah, absolutely Michael, I remember well our meetings and the gallery of the Westbury, organised some great events at the hotel, but yeah, quite a lot has happened since then. I was a director of sales at the Westbury, right up till the middle of 2016, and then decided to go out on my own, and set up KL communications. So that's in its fifth year which I can't believe when I say it out loud, that it's been almost five years, but the idea behind it really was I was looking for the opportunity to do more within the MICE industry. And I felt that under my own company, I'd have greater flexibility and work with many different clients around the world. And that's what I've been doing primarily most of that time was spent collaborating with Ovation Global DMC, which Michael you and many others will know a big Global at DMC and I've been working successfully with them for several years. And I've also had the opportunity to do, sort of more ad hoc projects during that time. Whether it's a speaking engagement, whether it's working with the likes of Tourism Northern Ireland. And so it's been really varied, really exciting, challenging. And then of course, March, 2020 happens a lot has happened since then that none of us could have expected.- So I wonder if you could, I mean, as I mentioned when we discussed running this MICE conversation and I mentioned that I spent a lot of time over the last year talking to Convention Bureaus all over Europe and all over the world, who normally we would work with but can't now, and they're all the first question they ask is always what's happening in Ireland? What's happening around the world? We've all gotten used working from home. I'm guessing that's your home. I see Paddington behind you there.- My trusted buddy, my trusted buddy yeah.- But the first question to ask is, one, how are you Michael? And two, what's happening in Ireland? How are the PCLs? How is everybody what's going on? Because we've all been living in our own silos and bubbles. I wonder maybe just tell us, how this has affected you as a company running your own business now. And you know what I suppose signs of light maybe you're seeing or how are things are developing?- Yeah, no, absolutely Michael, ultimately it's been tough. It's been tough for everyone, but in different ways, temporary stuff has been put on on the industry and on the work that we do. And I think, we often forget that a lot of the work that's been postponed in terms of travel programmes and global events, they've been years in the planning. So people have seen all their hard work over several years suddenly being put on hold, so without a doubt it's been tough for myself. I made some pretty considerable decisions early on during the global pandemic, the work I was doing with ovation global GMC that came to an end because at the time there wasn't a huge amount that could be done in terms of what I traditionally would do. I wasn't in market, I wasn't face-to-face with customers. And at the same time a DMC's business has been completely put on hold, and all those programmes have either been rescheduled or cancelled, so I took a bit of a bold step and decided to return to university, back in September of last year. And the main reason behind that Michael was for a few years now within our industry, I've been more preoccupied around how we do things and what's viable in the longterm for our industry. And so the idea of sustainability has been kind of playing on my mind, I don't actually like that word, but anyway I'm never happy, Michael, you know that but the idea the concept around sustainability, has been on my mind for several years. And so I decided to take action and I've taken on a Higher Diploma in Sustainability in Enterprise with University College Cork, which has been just an incredible eye-opener and a wonderful learning experience. The calibre of the lectures at the university is really high and the programme itself takes a transdisciplinary approach. So I'm looking at sustainability from so many different perspectives, which I find fascinating areas I had no prior knowledge and had no idea how they worked whether it's our energy systems, whether it's to do with chemical engineering, I just no knowledge and now I'm a bit of exposure. So that was the biggest change. But what I've found, Micheal, back to your point about people working in silos and individuals and businesses, just not being sure how to communicate throughout this entire pandemic, like that has been a real challenge. The approach I took Michael is that we're all people, and ultimately a phone call, a catch-up chat, just ask and how other people are, how they are personally. And then of course, in variably, every conversation turns to how they are professionally, what's going on in their parts of the world, what's going on in the company that they work for, or that they own. And just gaining a bit of a greater understanding of what's happening elsewhere. And its I've liked the approach. I think it's given me an opportunity to really learn what people are going through, but also to try and figure out how we are gonna do business again once the industry starts to reopen, and I'll have opinions on what I think is may happen and others will have different opinions and that's good, once we're sharing them, once we're having conversations around them. And I think that's gonna be really important because I don't think there's gonna be any one solution to how business will look. What I find is that if people can just get a phone call in, if they can somehow stay connected, and I must say I know I'm serving on the SITE. International Board of Directors as you mentioned, but, for me SITE has been a lifeline. And ever since the pandemic kicked in, I'm here in Dublin, I have never been so connected to the global industry. I'm aware and in touch of what's happening and in different countries in Europe, whether that's Turkey, whether it's in France or elsewhere. And I can keep an eye on what's going on in the US and Canada, what's happening down in South America. It really has allowed me to stay so connected, and SITE's been brave, I would say Michael, and.- Well Ken, could you maybe just, I mean, I'd like to go back to the sustainability and diversity conversation in a second, but first as we're discussing SITE, could you tell us what you're seeing in terms of, being in that unique position two years into your time on the board of SITE, what is SITE doing internationally to prepare us as an industry to reopen?- Yeah, Michael, I mentioned the word brave there and that's the word I'd use for SITE. They, as an association they realise something considerable has hit our industry, that for most of us we haven't experienced before. So they knew it was time to experiment, try out new ways of engaging with our global members in terms of digital events, our level of communications, we actively went out to the members and said, what do you need? We know that your business has been put on a pause. What do you need? And people really said they wanted information. They wanted to know what was happening elsewhere. They wanted to know that somebody was advocating on their behalf. So the industry wouldn't be forgotten about, as all industries are fighting for government air time and whatnot. And then we just started really looking at what was happening on the ground. Like I'm amazed, I'm here in Dublin. I still I'm within a five kilometre radius restriction that's in place. Yes, that's not the same everywhere. Seeing what's happening elsewhere seeing business and hospitality reopen, and looking at how they're reopening has been really insightful. And like I'd spent quite a lot of time at chatting with people in the US and Canada. And if I look at the US, many parts of America are travelling again, there's events happening. I just get so encouraged by this. I'm Zooming into an event this evening, which has taken place in Georgia, and that's an in-person event this evening and it will be their second they did a three-day event back in December. Now we could easily forget that that's actually happening in other parts of the world but SITE makes sure we're staying connected. There are concerns Michael, there concerns that there's been a lot of changes, in staffing, in businesses, travel buyers are trying to see who is their point of contact when they have an RFP, is the same, is their contact still in the hotel? Are the same people still in the CVB or the DMO? And that poses concerns to the buying community. And it poses challenges to the supplier community, in terms of how they can best meet the needs of the buyers when business starts to return.- Yeah, well, I know that we've, I mean as a company we've effectively rebuilt our entire database. There's so many people that are disappeared unfortunately, and they call it now the LinkedIn graveyard, where every day you see another old colleague, old friend who's unfortunately moved industry. What can Convention Bureaus and buyers alike do to better help each other in terms of going forward? Like, is there other concrete steps that you can see that let's take Convention Bureaus for the moment? What can they do to help buyers? Let's start with Ireland for the moment.- Yeah, I think if you look at the change taken place over the last year Michael, I feel some of the most significant change is happening within the role of a Convention Bureau. I think they've been there and they've been utilised by many, but I don't think the significance of what they can do was ever fully appreciated up until now. So I do see convention Bureau and with a more commercial hat on, more proactive frontline, more engaged with the buyer community. But then in terms of the people that they represent the suppliers within their respective industries, there's going to be a huge scope of work there around education, how they can best support their industry to be ready for the return to business, keeping them updated providing them with supports, whether that's financial whether that's educational or otherwise. So I see a really interesting time for the Convention Bureau as we emerge out of the pandemic and business starts to return. Interestingly, Michael, last year, SITE run a digital events called SITE Week, really incredible wide ranging education, taking place over several days and really create great engagements, but I'd run a session with Joni Phillips who's with One 10, one of the big agencies based out of Minneapolis. And we did a session on the RFP process. And this has been an area that's been a bit of a bone of contention on my side for a number of years, and I think the pandemic has really made it clear that we need to address the timeline for RFPs and the amount of time that's spent on them. Can we do it a little bit more efficiently? Can we have more productive conversations at the outset between the buyer and the supplier or the buyer and the CVB in terms of what they need, and how a destination can meet those needs? And so can we shorten the timeline between an RFP being issued and contracting a piece of business because ultimately the longer it takes and the more people it takes, the more costly it is. And if a lot of businesses don't have the same levels of staffing that they had pre pandemic, or if there's pressure to deliver a programme cost competitively, anything that can be saved financially and time-wise during the RFP process, must be a welcome change. And that's one area that I've particularly been focused on ever prior to SITE Week last year, particularly since the collaboration with Joni, because it gives me an insight into, well what does she need as a buyer? And what does her company need as a buyer? And I could see it then from the supplier side and together were able to find common grounds and look at real tangible ways of just helping that RFP process be that little bit more streamlined.- Yeah, it's a very good point about RFPs. It's something, often they're scary when they come in. How much time we were going to commit to this? Are we even gonna commit to it? And a good point about staff, there's many agencies who've reduced to management only. It raises another point, which is flexibility. I've seen this in some of the events that we have planned for last year and this year in Ireland, contracts now, they've changed completely in terms of both the buyer and the supplier, there's much more flexibility to think that's gonna be a standard or a norm going forward in terms of just complete understanding of the new realities and complete flexibility when it comes to contracts.- Yeah, Michael, contracting has always been a bit of a thorney issue, whether you look at it from the hotelier side, or and the DMC side, particularly the DMC side. And what I think what I've seen since the pandemic kicked in is an unbelievable level of flexibility on all sides.- And will that go forward though Ken- Michael will to a certain degree, but we also have to remember the purpose of a contract. It is there to protect all parties who are privy to the contract. And in order to do that there could come a time where an element of the contract is executed, that doesn't sit as comfortably with one of the parties but that's the trade off, like I think that's been incredible generosity given by both buyers and suppliers over the last year, while that flexibility will continue. I think there needs to be an understanding that if something needs to be evoked, that's contained within a contract, it does need to be adhered to.- Yeah.- I don't, yeah, I'd say Michael it's not sustainable that a business could work on something for 12 months, 18 months, et cetera. And then if it can't go ahead for whatever reason, that there isn't some sort of a financial compensation to them, I think where the flexibility will come is maybe in the level of compensation. Well, we have to remember, we spent a lot of time drafting contracts and reviewing them and negotiating them. So you would hope that whatever is negotiated all parties are comfortable with and if it needs to be leveraged at some points that all parties will agree to what is in it, because its being negotiated.- One thing we did was we had a number of contracts with a number of venues for events, and it was obvious those events weren't going to take place but to, I suppose maintain the relationship, we left deposits in place. And some of those deposits may have been there 12 and 18 months, but from our side, we saw as Goodwill, leaving the deposit there to show that we did intend to come back when it was possible. And I think several things like that worked very well.- Absolutely, Michael and sometimes actually I don't think people realise that the benefit and impact that that gesture has that retention of a deposit just can really help the business keep going as we wait for things to reopen. I've seen some great examples of deposit retentions for rescheduled programmes. I've seen really great negotiations around the constellation of programmes, but people paying management fees. So the supplier let's say the DMC working really hard with their suppliers and ensuring that they're taken care of as best we can. And then the buyer actually saying, well actually you've supported all of your suppliers that you've contracted. We also want to support you and understand that if we pay some form of management fee to you it will help your business and it will help maintain the relationship. So there's been some excellent examples of collaboration of flexibility over the course of the last 12 months which I don't know, I maybe would not have expected prior. And it's been encouraging to see and I think back to your original question, Michael, yes there will be flexibility but I think there will also be greater focus on whats in a contract that's being signed and an understanding that everyone is clear of what those terms and conditions within that contract actually mean, because the likelihood of having to revert to contract at some point is increasing. The pandemic has shown that, so we can expect it to happen in some shape or form again. So yeah, that will be kind of my take on the the contracting side of things.- Can we jump back to sustainability, obviously you've used this downtime on the pandemic to go back to university and to study sustainability and diversity. Are you having those conversations yet? Are you able to apply that learning with your clients with the broader MICE industry with SITE and is there genuine interest on the other side to embrace that?- So Micheal this is a tricky one, really, I would say different people are at different stages different industries are at different stages and as an industry, do I think we're leading the way? No, and do I think there's people who are committed to leading the way? Absolutely, there is a huge scope of work to be done. We've got some great sustainability ambassadors within SITE and on the international board of directors, there are some great individual examples across the globe, but with the programme I'm doing at UCC, what I'm starting to realise, Michael, is that the changes that are going to become necessary over the coming years, I believe are far greater than I or anyone else would expect them to be. And that's not something to be afraid of. It's just something to be aware of and then figure out what do we do as an industry. And I've been very fortunate that I've been exposed to and I've had great conversations with people from different industries. And they're giving me insights into how the change in their way of doing things could impact us. So you're just thrown at one example, and the idea of working on carbon budgets for our events is something that I feel could become a reality. It's not something I would have considered before, but that if you have a corporation who is on a mission to be net zero by 2030 or 2050, they will need to incorporate business travel and events into their carbon footprint. They come under the term scope three emissions. And so what they could ultimately do is go, well, events and travel are an integral part of our business, so they will continue, however we need to account for them. So does that provide an opportunity for all of us as an industry to go, well, actually if you run your events here and if it looks like this, here is a corresponding carbon budget for that programme and then they can account for that in their metrics. So when I raised this with people they do think it's a little bit maybe out there but just based on the conversations I've been having with industry, I see it as a real possibility. So that creates opportunities. And I, as I said Michael there's a huge scope of work to be done. I think our understanding of sustainability of my own include just has possibly been at somewhat misguided or maybe less than ambitious, but I do think the will is there people have not been able to travel Michael, a vast majority of people have not been able to travel for a year. And what we're seeing is how people have suddenly realised that maybe they were taking travel a little bit for granted. So travel is gonna go up in people's estimation. It's gonna have an even greater impact, positive impact than ever before. And with that I think comes great opportunity. Will some people travel? Yeah less possibly. Or will they travel more meaningfully? Will they spend more? That's important for us as businesses in the industry. I would say most definitely. I think there's a huge opportunity to reposition travel events on hospitality and the impact it has on people. But we need to be prepared that we're delivering our businesses as sustainably as possible, so more people can avail of what it is we provide.- Very interesting and I agree, you're not the only person I've spoken to of late who's gone back to university. So I think there will be many more people coming back to the workplace when we open up again, with, considered ideas that they've had time to reflect upon, two quick fire question before we finish up. And we're at our time limit here Ken, for those watching this internationally who are interested in the Irish market, can you I know it's an impossible question but what's your instinct, is it gonna be this year or next year before you see things open up again not only just domestic MICE events but international events, do you think short-term or long-term?- It's gonna be next year. I've kind of resigned myself to the fact that this year is more or less a write off for want of a better phrase, but I think it will pick up next year. People have seen that face to face plays such an important role in their business. They want to get back to it. People want to be face-to-face and I know we've had digital solutions, Michael, and they're just not the same, but I think when we look at vaccination roll-outs, when we look at government policies, et cetera, I think for corporations next year makes more sense to delve back into international. With that said, there might be a small level of domestic MICE activity towards the latter end of this year. But for Irish businesses to be going international, it's gonna be 2022.- And beyond and then a parting word are you positive or pessimistic going forward having all of us been through this, do you think we've handled it well as an industry? And do you think we've taken the time to reflect? I know you have, but are you positive or pessimistic about the future specifically Ireland?- Overwhelmingly positive as, Michael, as you know I've never fully happy, and I've at full acceptance that there's no such thing as perfection, so no one country or one business at one person has done everything perfectly. But what I'm seeing is this has been the biggest opportunity for our industry to really think about how we do things, what we do it for, what the benefits are, and is the potential to maybe make changes as we start to reopen. And for that, I am overwhelmingly positive.- Thank you, Ken. So that ends our MICE conversation for today. Today we've been talking to Ken Lyons who is Director of KL Communications based in Dublin a marketing and sales agency and also SITE International Board of Directors Ken, thank you for your time. Great to talk to you, great to see you. And hopefully we'll meet in person very soon.(upbeat music)