MICE Conversations: a podcast for the Meetings, Incentive Travel, Conferences and Events industry
MICE Conversations: a podcast for the Meetings, Incentive Travel, Conferences and Events industry
#5: MICE Conversations - Chris Nolan, John Burke, venuesworld.com
#5: MICE Conversations. In this episode we talk with Chris Nolan and John Burke from venuesworld.com in Dublin, Ireland. venuesworld.com was founded in 2008 by Chris Nolan and John F. Burke. Their HQ is in Dublin with local offices around the world. Their mission is to help their clients deliver seamlessly executed events of the highest standard. They operate more than 1,000 corporate events and conferences annually for clients in various industries and regions.
More about Chris, John and venuesworld.com.
https://venuesworld.com/about-us/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-burke-23242117/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinanolan/
Email: info@venuesworld.com
Interview recorded Wednesday 14th April 2021 .
Topics and questions, timeline or video chapters.
00:00 - Intro
00:22 - Chris. How are you both. How has COVID been for you, both from a personal and business perspective.
03:32 - John. Is there light at the end of the tunnel from where you are sitting?
06:17 - John. Is the future hybrid events? What about the increased costs associated with hybrid events?
08:01 - John. Has the industry changed? For example, RFPs, will they be simplified?
10:31 - Chris. Will events take place on a regional basis first, before we go fully global again?
12:33 - John. Are you seeing any trends? E.g. digitalisation and content.
14:39 - Chris. Will we travel less going forward. We will be more selective? Focus on quality.
16:35 - Chris. How do we navigate the new complexities around travel? Testing and green passports or certs look like they will be with us for some time to come.
18:53 - John. Should we, as an industry, be questioning government policy or assisting govt. with opening-up plans for MICE.
22:30 - Outro.
This pocast is also available as a video, on the TravelMedia.ie YouTube channel.
https://youtu.be/SwKcoUH4f5E
TravelMedia.ie run Ireland's only outbound MICE networking event, the MICE Meetup Dublin.
https://www.travelmedia.ie/mice-meetup-dublin/
(upbeat music)- Hello and welcome everybody. Welcome to another session of MICE Conversations. My name is Michael Collins from TravelMedia.ie and today I am delighted to be joined by John Burke and Chris Nolan from venuesworld.com. Thank you both for joining me. Maybe, if I could start with obvious simple question which is, how are you both doing? How has COVID been for you both from a personal and a work perspective? I wonder if Chris, you could start us off.- Yes, Michael COVID, well, when you're in the International Conferencing Industry it is the perfect storm. You can't... People can't travel and people can't meet. So we are redundant, it was an absolute shocker I never, for us is really because of the international dimension to our business we had a large group in Singapore in January of last year, and we successfully ran that event straight after Christmas. The team were down there literally on New Year's day, getting that away, and they flew home and suddenly this news was trickling through. And, for us kind of the immediate impact was, Oh my God we've had a team in Asia, are they okay? What do we even do about knowing if they're okay? It never really occurred to also to me certainly at that time that this is coming to Europe and coming to Ireland, and this is going to be a pandemic. But again, I think because of that international element and we had lots of other business confirmed into Asia for last year a lot of our clients would do an Asia Europe rotation. And of course last year was the Asia rotation so, we were seeing cancelations flying in the door really before COVID hit the European psyche and certainly the Irish industry. And at the time it felt a little bit like we were the only ones all of our colleagues in the domestic market weren't immediately impacted at that stage. So, it was a dreadful for the lonely place to be. We certainly didn't think we'd still be here 15 months later, but I guess over the course of last year particularly, where bank supports were coming in, government supports were coming in, industry supports were coming in, that started to make the possibility of surviving this a reality. And, so we're still here. We got very busy about creating a virtual solution which has worked very well for our clients has allowed us to stay in relationship with them to continue to offer them a solution throughout this periods. We're looking at that becoming hybrid solutions and lives solutions later on into this year and certainly into 2022. So, we're here now looking back over 15 months of this saying, okay, we're still here there is a long way to go, but we're alive. We're alive and kicking, yeah.- [Michael] Thank you, Chris. And interesting to hear that you developed your own platform. John, if I can jump to you one reason I'm delighted to be speaking to you both today is the fact that you happen to be an Irish company based in Dublin but with huge international reach, not only in terms of events that you organize globally, but clients globally and you have offices all over the world, Spain, for example. So, I wonder if you can talk us through the international perspective you have in terms of what's going on, and is there a light at the end of the tunnel in terms of MICE happening again?- I think that perspective may have changed over the last 12 months, since so far as the we started coming from one place and as Chris already alluded to, we come from a place where everything was shut down we were in advanced of the European marketplace and we're beginning to see that full circle... Coming full circle, so to speak. And so far as that, we're beginning to see Asia and indeed North America stepping their toe back into the marketplace during the intervening period for us and certainly on both a personal level but also on a business level. I think it's been there. For me, it's been the biggest journey's business and personally, just trying to navigate through this and keep positivity and also from a client perspective keeping connected with clients. And so it also stimulated a huge amount of creativity in ourselves and in the team because it's amazing the amount of creativity you can cope up with when you need to survive and not withstanding the fact that there was some great government supports around the place. That creativity reminded me and brought us back to our startup days 15 years ago. And it brought us back to that feeling of that place which is on the edge of a cliff but not quite falling over the cliff on a daily basis. We are seeing hugely positive signs though, beginning to emerge. And I wouldn't certainly say that everything is back on track but we are seeing very significant positive signs, and that's not about clients who were already engaged and postponed events. And this is the beginnings of new RFPs coming through to us, not necessarily into Ireland, but certainly in the very recent past, in an Asian context but also beginnings into Europe. And these are significant events which corporations and companies are beginning to look at for 2022, not necessarily 2021. So, we have begun already as a business to start bringing on board salespeople, for example. And now we need to start ratcheting back up our operations teams. While they've been operating on a virtual level, it's now beginning to go to the hybrid route and the in-person route back end of this year and into next year, which is really positive news.- Yeah, that's very interesting. And can I ask you about hybrid? I mean, we've just run an event ourselves that was virtual and I've been to hybrid events last year in Spain. Do you think the future is hybrid? And the reason I ask is that, I'm now looking at a future where I might run an event and others where it's both live on hybrid which effectively in many ways increases my costs, doesn't decrease them. So, do you think there's an issue there? And, how's that going to pan out?- I think it's going to be different, for different industry types to be honest with you, Michael and interesting myself and Chris were engaged with a couple of clients this week significant clients who are corporates and within there... They're looking to run events within their own internal client base for lack of a better word. So, it's not externally facing more viewers, the last thing they want to see is any hybrid elements. They want all their people onsite fully engaged with each other in the traditional sense. And, that's when they're going to start running their events again. However, if you were in a business which is running events and it's revenue generating by delegate numbers and it's association based, et cetera. Well, the criteria is different for you. You want as large a volume of people that you can have. And if one thing that virtual has proved is that they're getting low... People are getting larger engagement if the content is engaging, and so that same applies. And I think there's a level of hybrid that we're going to be living with the wrong word. That's got to be part and parcel of the major larger events. I think for me, and also for corporate clients, and for us, what we're seeing initially and it is very initial is that they're running the hybrid because they have to, but when they get back full on in 2022 and '23 they really want everybody on site.- Okay, so hybrid will happen but it'll only happen if it makes sense, and if the cost element is appropriate but for those that want to get back and that.. look I'm hearing that as well. A lot of people saying you can't wait to get back traveling and seeing people again. But, I suppose at the back of my mind is a question of will that actually happen? You mentioned positivity. I wonder if you could talk to me through, what you're seeing from, as you say, the US and Asia where things are starting to happen again is it same old as in people doing... they're going back to what they did before, or have things changed? For example, you mentioned RFPs, I've heard other people say that hopefully the RFP process will become more streamlined and easier. Are you seeing a change in how people are approaching business for '22?- I think it depends on the complexity of any given event, Michael. If there's a level of complexity in terms of two or three tiers to it, traditional RFPs are traditional RFPs if is not something you can replicate or duplicate online you can surely get the connectivity that you need to develop those RFPs. So for example, Chris and myself have just literally come off a call with, I think 26 partners from across Europe, we've done a monthly review and all of them had a different opinion as to when to start employing money into marketing spend again. Was it May and June this year to generate RFPs? Or should be waiting until September October to generate business into 2022. And all of them were having different experiences. So, our colleagues in Athens had received 22 RFPs in the month of March for 2022 which is a huge amount of work these. Now, whether that's down to the Greek authorities and the Convention Bureau is driving more messaging whether it's down to Greece being a sunny destination and people wanting to get back to it quickly whether it's down to space and it not being there but all of those elements need personal and local, and knowledge that can drive the RFP process. And, that to me is.... We'll always be that way because there are so many different elements to significant pieces of business. If it's one or two dimensions that a piece of businesses is. So, is it just a venue that somebody is looking for? Or it's just an airline structure, or it's just an evening event, then for sure those RFPs are more simple to manage. But anything that's multifaceted, anything that's got different layers to it, anything that requires real local knowledge, the traditional RFP process is the way that it will go. And obviously anything that's got scaled for smaller groups that necessarily doesn't apply.- Okay, that's interesting and it makes sense, but it's also interesting. I've heard a lot of people talk about hopefully the cumbersome RFP process may change, but maybe there's a reason it was cumbersome in the first place. Chris, can I ask you in terms of what I'm seeing going forward is maybe in 2022 events being more regional before they become fully international, would you agree with that? Are you seeing people really launch back into full on international again?- Yeah, we're not seeing any of the inquiries or any of the conversations that we're having with our existing client base are looking for those fully global interactions. Again, I think one of the things that we saw coming out of the 2008 first smaller regional meetings over the course of 12 months, and what they learned from us was that their marketing director, and their sales director and their product director, spent an entire year trying to deliver four conferences instead of killing it over the course of four days and getting everyone in the one room it's incredibly time consuming to plan a regional meeting for 200 people. And you can do the same job for 800 people, with the same amount of human resource and time, and not to mention the fact that actually the economies of scale and the budgets are totally stretched by regional meetings. So, I mean, I think many who were there before will avoid that if they can, and the solution is to try and bolt on a hybrid or a virtual element for the moment and then get everybody back to global meetings as soon as possible.- Interesting, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. John, can I ask you, are there trends that you are seeing then cause what I'm hearing is a lot of people want to get back to what they know worked before, RFP's working the same way they did and full on international events because of economies of scale. Are the trends that have come out of this period that you think we'll see in the future?- Well, I mean, I think digitalization of the marketing messaging and communication and content is not only here today, and it has been to the past, but it's been heightened greatly heightened over the last 12 or 18 months and that's going to continue to grow. I think content, which is interesting through the virtual space is more condensed and that's, you're looking for quality. And, I think that may replicate itself in the real in-person in live experience as we go back to that. A higher quality of content, but also shorter snippets. I mean, I know virtually at the moment, the eight by eight structure or eight minutes, et cetera or 15 minutes, is that maximum. I certainly don't think it would be that, but, I think for sure one of the big changes may vary well be in terms around content delivery. You're not going to be sitting through two and a half or three hour sessions with multiple PowerPoints, et cetera. I think shorter and higher quality is where it's all about. I also think the experiential element of events is going to become equally important cause people are craving that. So, that requires a level of creativity around it that is not just about the nuts and bolts and the logistics of putting an event together. And, I think those people who can deliver a level of creativity, or certainly a level of journey mapping, I suppose, is a better description kind of the industry phraseology is not meant to be but really mapping out a journey with a client or a client mapping out a journey with a destination or a venue is really important and it's becoming more and more important. And that goes back to the experience that people are having and the networking opportunities around that.- That makes sense. And Chris, would you agree? I mean, I do hear from a lot of people that they want to get back to travel but they feel that maybe they will probably travel less going forward and they'll be more selective about the conferences and events and business travel that they'll do going forward. And maybe as John says, higher quality will attract the right people and the bar will be raised.- I, think again harking back to this post 9/11 days where a lot of us were never going to fly again and off we went to soon, it becomes the normal again quite quickly. And I think that people will go back to a lot of traveling too because there's such value in these meetings and they're such an amount of valuable connection and work and selling that can be done in two days, face-to-face at a conference and it just can't be replicated. So, I think people will travel where it is to their benefits where they see the value and where's enhances their work or their life experience. Plus what will be allowable now is for people who don't want to go, to say no and to say, no, I won't travel, but I will access it remotely. I'll live stream it or I'll access the content. So, I think people are going to have more of a choice around whether they needs to attend a conference to get access to new information about products maybe some of the more educational rather than network/sales relationships conferencing. So people will pick and choose, I think where the value lies. Yeah.- Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Well, certainly everything we've discussed, one I'm on the same page as you both, and I'm delighted to hear people in your position with your experience to be so positive and looking forward. That said, we're all based here in Ireland at the moment and I've just come off a flight, as you both know, and it was a flight specifically to beat a COVID hotel quarantine. What are your thoughts on the fact that there are complexities ahead of us in terms of, we're hearing, we're aware that the digital passport or certificate is being developed there will be testing going forward. What are your thoughts on how we as an industry navigate all those elements cause it's not going to disappear overnight.- It's going to be incredibly complex for us. It already is. One of the things that we heard on our meeting with our network, our partners earlier today was in all destinations, people are not sure as the conference organizers and as the hosts, what is required to have them and weather protocols that were developed six months ago, were as a very early and urgent reaction to the problem whether they still stand, whether they're relevant whether somebody who's vaccinated now is different to somebody who isn't, well, of course they are, but, nobody knows really what to do. And I think that's the big difficulty is getting clarity. And, when people don't know what to do they tend to do nothing in my experience. So, we really need to get access to very clear guidelines so that we are covered legally, professionally, and for everybody's health and safety. But, unfortunately we're walking on quicksand here and everything is changing really, really quickly both moving forward and moving backwards almost in equal measures. So, that is freezing people in their tracks and it's hard to know how we're going to really move this forward with any grace pace.- Yeah John, your thoughts on that? I mean, can the Mice Industry, can we as players do anything in reality is this going to be always government led and we just have to follow?- I certainly think as an industry, I certainly think both across all the destinations we should be questioning in a very professional way but we should be questioning. And we also have an awful lot to add. I mean, when you just take simple comparisons that some of the biggest shopping centers of the world are that can be 10,000 people. And we can't run an event with professional organizations for 500 people across the earth. At this moment in time there seems to be no sense or rhyme or reason to it. I think one of the problems that we have in a European context and also I think it's happening in the States as well as in Federalist system, Fishers have become evidence in terms of central structure is not being able to bring about group think. And therefore you find individual countries running at a different pace within, across this crisis. I think most piece of business people, I think would say at this point in time on an Irish context that we have been overly cautious in terms of our approach. And unfortunately, over the last number of months overly cautious has turned into some bad planning both in terms of distribution of vaccine, how that's been operating or not as the case, maybe it is getting better, which is great. Or in terms of planning from what you were experiencing in the last 24 hours, where people are rushing from all corners of the world, be Erasmus people, or be people trying to get back into the country as a result of what has happened over the last couple of weeks. I think we have an opportunity to learn from that really, really quickly and not be in danger. We are in danger sometimes of really over analyzing these things. There are some extraordinary professionals and the logistic teams in this country who can assist across the board, both with government but also with input into the decision making process. And it strikes me and again, in an Irish context and this has happened elsewhere. It's not about just Ireland, that those results are not being listened to. And I fear sometimes when I consume news content and an Irish, in Ireland we do very little questioning of these decisions. And I don't mean questioning for questioning sake for questions to be negative but questioning to get the right results for everybody. And I see that throughout the media that we very rarely questioned in a real, real way with the exception of some journalists who do it well. And I would love to see that becoming more parts of the process, but I do think we're at a point now where vaccine rollout is critical and will solve a lot of the medium term problems. There are short-term problems that you've experienced the last 24 hours that other people would experience in the next couple of weeks. And, we need to get over there as quickly as possible and move to vaccine rollout. And once we get the majority of the population are indeed and age profile, or above that populated stock, we'll be thinking sensibly from a business perspective because we can't keep funding everything. And that includes our industry. How the Mice sector can help? The Mice sector can help in a number of ways. But I think involving themselves in the decision process at government level and also in terms of convention bureaus across Europe really involving themselves with the supply chain to make sure the security of financial structures their security within the supply chain and to make sure that the key suppliers across the board in this new environment understand that flexibility is required to contracting to stimulate business into the future.- Yeah, agreed a hundred percent. And look, I think you both know I'm a proponent of let's say vocal criticism, not criticism for the sake of criticism but constructive input. And I think a lot of us have been afraid to say too much because we feel it's a pandemic, but I think as you say, our input is, should be valued and is useful because we have huge experience in this industry. John and Chris, thank you both for joining me today. It's been incredibly interesting and wonderful to have your insight. So I appreciate both of your time coming to me today and participating in this Mice conversation. So thank you again, both and look forward to seeing you in person as soon as we can. Thank you.- Great Michael, bye bye.(upbeat music)