Welcome to our podcast. My name is Kealy Severson and I'm here with co host Erik Johnson and Alicia Swamy. Today we're here with Dr. Levy. Dr. Levy you have a pretty interesting background. You're both an attorney and a medical doctor, trying to be a part of all of the groups you hold into the least esteem, you said.
Dr. Thomas Levy:Yeah, well, I got to fill the time somehow right.
Kealy Severson:So it looks like you entered the hall of fame through orthomolecular medicine. And you have a book called curing the incurable where you chat about the utilization of vitamin C for infectious diseases, chronic illness and toxins. Can you talk a little bit more about how you stumbled into using vitamin C for chronic illnesses?
Dr. Thomas Levy:Well, that started about 25 years ago, I was a regular cardiologist in Colorado Springs, Colorado and I met Dr. Hal Huggins, who if you've never heard, the name is probably the first real biological integrative dentist of our day. And he had a clinic there where literally people came in from around the world, getting a two week treatment period that involves nutrition, supplementation, counseling, and most importantly, what we call the total dental revision where all the effective teeth came out and the root canals and treating the gums and addressing the tonsils in the sinuses, all sites of infection, and the mercury was taken out as well. So all of that as one big package was done and he invited me one day after I got to know him to come out and see what was going on with the clinic. So I said okay, fine. And in that visit, I saw an elderly lady wheelchair bound, get out of her wheelchair to get into the dental chair and then get three hours of the most arduous dental treatments I've ever seen in my life extractions this out of the other, but she started getting perkier and perkier as everything went on, and when the dental work was finished, she was so energized. She was asking her caregiver to take her out to some great place to eat that night. I mean, the work she got will put most college kids to bed for a week, like when they get their wisdom teeth taken out and she was energized. So I said, Hal, what's going on here if this doesn't compute, and he pointed to the IV, she was getting an IV. I said, Okay, that's fine. I've seen lots of IVs. What's special about this one? He said, Well, it's got 50 grams of vitamin C in it. Well, that completely came out of left field, I really had no idea what he was talking about. But I wasn't in the habit of betraying what my eyes have witnessed, and I saw something happen that wasn't supposed to happen. And it was at that point in time that instant that I decided I needed to really I didn't know it become my life's work, but I knew I needed to research out vitamin C for myself and see what was going on and then I eventually not too much later became a consultant Dr. Huggins' clinic and completely ditched my cardiology practice, and about a year later, because Dr. Huggins was reimbursing me well, and I witnessed how he was getting sued right and left by malicious people such that he had a lawyer on retainer. And I said, Well, I've got the time I've got the inclination, I think I'll get a law degree as well. And then about four or five years later, my first book came out with Dr. Huggins on uninformed consent, people getting stuff done in their mouths, and then later on optimal nutrition for optimal health. And then around 2002, I wrote curing the incurable and it's been a continued evolution since then.
Kealy Severson:So that's quite a story. So do you do you currently have a medical practice in which you use IV vitamin C for chronic conditions?
Dr. Thomas Levy:No, I don't have a clinical practice, I stopped my own personal clinical practice when I first started up with Dr. Huggins in 1994, stopping my cardiology practice. I've worked consultatively with a few other clinics, okay, but I've not primarily run them, or taken on new patients, clinical patients, but instead work with the people there, give them my input. And that's pretty much continued with the evolution you had over the transition of the computer. About that time, then, email started becoming more prominent and as my books were starting to be read by more people around the world, most of my time these days, and for a long time has been fielding new emails, and if you will, practicing arm's length medicine. In other words, listening to what the doc's had to say about this patient, that patient, say, What do you think I should do? And I give them some input and I say, the only charges you got to give me some feedback. Let me know how things turn out. So I built a clinical database, but it hasn't involved me in this saralee interacting directly with the patient.
Erik Johnson:Have you treated anybody with chronic fatigue syndrome?
Dr. Thomas Levy:Well, I've certainly had like I said, many people talk to me about individuals with chronic fatigue. And interestingly enough, the approach is pretty much similar to chronic fatigue as it is to all of the chronic diseases, since all diseases are based on excess oxidation. It's referred in the literature as oxidative stress, but more simply, it's too many biomolecules, RNA, DNA, protein, sugars, fats, enzymes, you name it, by toxins, which are pro oxidative nature coming in and oxidizing them, which makes them electron deficient, and takes away their function. So you take away a functioning biomolecule and make it dysfunctional or a functional by oxidizing it. And that distribution of biomolecules determines the disease, I go into this explanation because chronic fatigue like all the other diseases, some more than others, respond to stopping the new toxins that come in toxins only are toxic because of their ability to oxidize, and maximize the intake of new antioxidants. Not just vitamin C, but the whole ball of wax, which are then able to reduce or bring those oxidized biomolecules back to a normal state of chemical configuration, so that they function again. And what this means more specifically, as any body's disease, let's say, chronic fatigue, or fibromyalgia, it's not a disease of the muscle. It's a disease of a unique array of biomolecules in that tissue being oxidized. There's no additional, ill defined disease process in those cells other than their array of biomolecules. So I had to go through that whole explanation to say that the way you retreat, the way you address fibromyalgia, or excuse me, chronic fatigue, is by doing a total dental revision. And the major source of toxins or new oxidation in the body, almost across the board is infected gums, root canals, infected teeth, infected tonsils, infected sinuses, and a chronic pathogen colonization in the nose and throat secondary to that all of that needs to be addressed. And when you're able to address that, and then optimize supplementation, you can get dramatic results. Also, this might have been more of an answer than you're asking for, I'm not sure is the pathophysiology of all diseases, involves increased oxidation inside the affected cells, which is always characterized by increased calcium, decreased magnesium in inadequate vitamin C, the moment you adjust the calcium and the magnesium, and you optimize vitamin C concentrations inside the cell, you have a normal cell doesn't matter what the disease process is, doesn't matter what the previous infection was, you've normalized the cell. And obviously, if you could do that several billion times you resolve the disease. But the point is that the goal is always increased vitamin C inside the cell. I say that because very recently, after doing a little research on my own and going through a certain personal experience post COVID. It turns out that hydrocortisone, which is of course, a primary hormone in your body, exerts its primary function by pushing vitamin C inside the cell, okay? And that's why when you get a stress reaction and you release to hydrocortisone inside your adrenal gland, it's there to push more vitamin C in the cell which responds then, and clarifies any sort of oxidative insult. And it turns out that very many people, and I would say, this is my opinion, that probably well over 90% of older chronic fatigue patients have this, they have chronic adrenal insufficiency. The thing is unlike estrogen, unlike testosterone, unlike thyroid hormone, it's just not clear cut, because your cortisol varies from one day from one moment to the next, how well your adrenal gland responds to stress depending on the ACTH coming from your brain. And so most doctors don't mess with it quite honestly because it's too confusing. But the point is, is to be treated empirically, and, in the case of the chronic fatigue patient, start them on 5 or 10 milligrams of hydrocortisone, taken simultaneously with a large dose of vitamin C. Several grams of regular Vitamin C as sodium ascorbate or a liposomal encapsulated form that gives you a super push of vitamin C inside your cells and you would be amazed how quickly all the different nonspecific symptoms of chronic fatigue and and other diseases start disappearing.
Erik Johnson:Did you ever work with Dr. Robert Cathcart?
Dr. Thomas Levy:I knew him I interacted with him a few times. He came and talked to one of my conferences about 20 years ago. I will say I didn't know him well, but I knew him to, you know, give him a call and have a conversation. Sure.
Dr. Elizabeth Seymour:I got kind of a funny story about him. He was a physician in incline village, Nevada, north end of Lake Tahoe. This was back in the late 1970s and he was treating people with vitamin C. Generally, oral he would bring him up to bowel tolerance with massive doses of vitamin C and he was treating a lot of problems this way. In fact, that was his first line of therapy for pretty much anybody that walked in his door. And he started seeing people with a fatiguing condition, and he was getting good results, and concluded due to the action of vitamin C, that the Krebs cycle was being repaired some way that the spent electrons from oxidative stress were somehow being addressed by bringing people up to bowel tolerance with vitamin C. And he got quite a reputation for this and people thought it was kind of bizarre, but it didn't get much attention until 1985. When a he left inclined he moved out in 1980. But his legacy stayed behind. A lot of people remembered him and his theories about oxidative stress and vitamin C, and in 1985 new doctors had moved into town just in time for a strange flu like illness. A marathon runner who had been in China carried the strange flu back to this little village at the north end of Lake Tahoe.
Dr. Thomas Levy:History repeats itself, huh.
Erik Johnson:People started dropping like flies with a malady a mystery malady that they couldn't recover from. And two doctors Cheney and Peterson were very alarmed, they contacted the Washoe County Health Department who ignored them. They didn't say anything worth responding to. The only signs of this were elevated Epstein Barr Virus titers, a strange inability to control EBV, other viruses were cropping up to, but the only really reliable test was a brand new Epstein Barr Virus serology test that showed EBV was really getting out of control in these patients. This combined with the strange flu like illness, apparently from China, alarmed them enough that they tried to bypass the county health department, contact the Center for Disease Control directly. So the CDC, who are not supposed to respond to individual doctors, requesting help, contacted the Washoe County Department of Public Health. And as their director, Dr. Michael Ford, well, what the situation was with Incline Village, and he told the CDC not to respond, because the doctors, they're all crazy. They try to cure people with vitamin C, and to stay away from the crazy doctors who treat people with fruit juice. Because as far as I'm concerned, if you prescribe vitamin C, that's all you're doing is trying to cure people with fruit juice. Apparently, they knew nothing about the Krebs cycle, oxidative stress, and how vitamin C can help restore the spin electrons and get mitochondria back to a higher level of function. So I thought it was kind of funny that the CDC almost didn't respond, because of the crazy doctors in Incline Village treating people with vitamin C.
Dr. Thomas Levy:mean, we now have with the pandemic, many examples of, in one case, a state by executive order, banning a physician from prescribing an accepted drug, we have the hospital's refusing to let doctors use it. We have pharmacies refusing to dispense them. And then of course, you have the pharmaceutical companies in their control. But really, it's almost become a situation. And it saddens me to say it, but my goodness, I've had my eyes open for the last two years. And, gosh, if you're at all keeping up with things, the worst you can do, worst thing you can do, if you have COVID is decide to go to the hospital because that then determines that you're going to not be able to get the things most important to your recovery. I'm sure there's exceptions to that, but I've seen so many cases already. And I've had so many people contact me, Can we start this, Can we start that I said I can't do anything against your hospital. I can't make your doctor prescribe something that he or she doesn't want to send you better get a lawyer and you better get one fast or get your get your patient get your relative out of the hospital. So that an integrative physician can can give your relative not only high dose vitamin C, but different forms of hydrogen peroxide, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, Chloroquine, zinc. These are all well established therapies and it just continues to be a tragedy that they're so actively suppressed. And in some cases, we have the medical boards, unbelievable, taking away doctors licenses for prescribing accepted medications.
Dr. Elizabeth Seymour:Well, getting back to making the correlation with COVID, one of Dr. Cathcart observations was that people were losing their fingerprints. For people with severe oxidative stress. If you looked at the fingerprints, they didn't look all that abnormal. But the ridges would flatten out so severely, that if people tried to make a fingerprint on a police blotter, they couldn't do it, it was just a black smudge. And the only illness that he knew of that consistently resulted in loss of fingerprints was scurvy, the notorious vitamin C deficiency. So I would really be interested to find out if people with long COVID are suffering from the same loss of fingerprints.
Dr. Thomas Levy:you know, it's interesting, I don't know if this is the reason or not, but just as you talk about it and bring it up the one of the things that vitamin C, has long been known to be most essential for is for the formation of new connective tissue, fiberous tissue, I mean, what is a ridge on the outside of your finger, other than a special formation of fiber tissue, and probably collagen as well. Like I said, I've never made that correlation myself at all. But if that's a definite reality that happens on a regular basis, I'm sure very comfortable. It has to do with the degree of vitamin C deficiency, such as you can't, whatever is involved in making a fingerprint, what's involved there. Another thing about Dr. Cathcart that we should remember today, for those who still are aware of him the orthomolecular docs, is we have so many circumstances where somebody will use 5 grams or 10 grams or 15 grams or 50 grams, etc. Dr. Cathcart although he used mostly oral, occasionally intravenous, he described and he wrote a paper on the 100, 200, 300, 400 gram viruses and that was a daily consumption. Like I said, this was an oral consumption. But it showed that, like we're talking in COVID, about the cytokine storm and the enormous overwhelming oxidative stress that starts to take place and how once this has initiated, you don't have much chance of saving the patient. Well, you wouldn't with 5 grams of vitamin C, but if you gave them 100 grams intravenously, there's an excellent chance you'll reverse these patients, even at an advanced stage. So, Dr. Cathcart made a lot of contributions and I just hope we can get the rest of the medical population to be aware of them.
Dr. Elizabeth Seymour:I guess I have a personal debt of gratitude to Dr. Cathcart. Even though I didn't know him, my stepfather did my stepfather's biological dentist in 1985. And Lake Tahoe knew of Dr. Cathcart work. And when this mystery virus came through the one from China, my stepfather got me on Dr. Cathcart's regimen of vitamin C to bowel tolerance and I was doing that every day and it was spectacular. I would say that of all the things I tried, nothing helped more than that.
Dr. Thomas Levy:I'm sure, it's very straightforward, solid science. And I've heard the same story with other people many times before. And I don't mean at all, just say that if you don't have intravenous available to you, you can do an enormous amount of good by regularly dosing, and of course, and of course, your bowel tolerance is going to change the sicker you are. So you just continue taking it as you tolerate it. And if you take 50 fine if you take 80 fine if you take the 150 Fine. Doesn't matter. Okay? If you take that much vitamin C and you don't have diarrhea, guess what it means your body is taking it in because your body needs it.
Dr. Elizabeth Seymour:I believe that's absolutely correct. I think Dr. Cathcart, Linus Pauling. They're really onto something.
Dr. Thomas Levy:Right. Absolutely no question.
Dr. Elizabeth Seymour:So strangely enough, my stepfather being a dentist. He was a biological dentist in 1985 and at the exact same time that doctors Cheney and Peterson were being attacked by the medical profession and the CDC over their mystery virus, which was probably a Coronavirus from China. At this exact time, the local dentists were complaining about my step father advertising himself as a mercury free dentist. He was removing all these amalgams and these diseased teeth and these root canals and because he was not working within the established standard of care for the area, they said, If you keep advertising, that you're removing amalgams, and giving it a bad name by saying that mercury is a terrible, toxic thing, we're going to take away your dental license.
Dr. Thomas Levy:Yeah, nasty dentistry and nasty medicine and nasty boards, dental and medical have been around for a long time, no doubt about it.
Dr. Elizabeth Seymour:Well, this amazing thing about the loss of fingerprints. Now I'm really curious because back during the mystery illness when people under severe oxidative stress, were losing their fingerprints, we actually proposed to the medical profession and to the Center for Disease Control, that if something was happening in the population, it would be showing up on police records or any other time, you need to get a fingerprint taken, because people will be unidentifiable. So we propose that the time that you could actually go through the records where fingerprints are required, see if this type of oxidative stress is increasing in the population. And of course they never did. They completely refused. But maybe we can try again with long COVID, get the word out, and see if people with this chronic post viral COVID illness are suffering from the same scurvy like condition where they can't make a decent fingerprint.
Dr. Thomas Levy:Perhaps, yes.
Erik Johnson:It's cheap and easy. Just get a glass of water and you can do it yourself. Yeah, I wanted to just back up your information, Dr. Levy. And, you know, my family lost my mother in law, and I fought the hospital, tooth in nail providing them all the research even COVID specific research on vitamin C, just to say, hey, like, please, and spoke to the director of pharmacy spoke to everyone that I could speak to to get this. And they're just like, number one, we don't have IV vitamin C in stock, which I don't know if that was the truth or a lie.
Dr. Thomas Levy:You can get it overnight, you can get macguff to send it to you overnight. So that's okay.
Erik Johnson:Yeah. Yeah. And I exactly. I mean, I mean, I don't know how hospitals operate. So I guess you know, more than I do. But you know, and them saying that providing high dose orally would be detrimental to her health and could actually harm her. And these are the things I mean, this happened last year, and in September, and these are the things that these hospitals are saying to patients, when they're desperately trying to save their their loved one. And yeah, I definitely agree with you that, if you want to survive COVID, you might want to think about rethinking your option of going to the hospital, sadly, that's the world that we live in, but you know, something that you had said about modulating disease, and you said that you're finding in I guess an overload of calcium and not enough magnesium and you need to offset those two, what do you think is happening to the body that is skyrocketing the calcium and lowering the magnesium?
Dr. Thomas Levy:Well, what's happening in most people is inadvertently their own fault and of course, their physicians fault because to this day, calcium is one of the most commonly supplemented supplements on the planet, okay, and then the brainwashing and the error and the misinformation continues nonstop. Combine that with the fact that they flip it around, they tell you calcium is good for you, you can't get enough of it all the dairy well, and this is all covered in my book death by calcium. Most people, the older ladies that have the osteoporosis, they're actually not doing anything good for their bones because calcium by itself does nothing, nothing at all, this is established to decrease your chance of osteoporotic fracture and that's the ultimate goal. If you're an old person, you don't want to have a fracture, because then you can die of complications, while at the same time well established statistically, you take the calcium, and you massively increase your chance of heart attack and cancer. Okay, calcium along with iron, along with copper, or what I call the three toxic nutrients. They're good for you in a limited low dose and above that dosage range, they're uniformly toxic, and the higher you push them, they become even more toxic. Calcium being taken as a supplement is a carcinogen. Nothing short of taking something that directly causes cancer, because of what it does inside the cells. You get more calcium inside the cell, the oxidative stress goes up, and then when you become or when a cell becomes malignant malignant transformation is when the cell is when the calcium levels reached their highest level short of the cell dying, okay, because that oxidative stress is what ultimately kills the cell. But below those levels, but still elevated is what a disease cell is. This is why, or the reasoning behind if you will chemotherapy, this is not an embracement of chemotherapy, just a description of how it works is chemotherapy is highly toxic, and pro oxidant. So it gets into the cell and it takes an elevated oxidative stress level and pushes it even higher, until everything shuts down and you get either necrosis of the cell or program cell death. But the direct answer to your point is high calcium, because of what they do to everything else, is just about the worst thing you can do to your body. As a pure agent, iron is probably your most toxic substance on the planet above what you need, because it fuels that reaction inside your cell that creates this oxidative stress that causes cells to either become diseased or ultimately die. So and we have the evidence to that, for example, one of the four main supplements that decrease calcium inside your cells, which are magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin K2 and vitamin D2, all four of those, because of the impact that they have on bringing calcium levels down inside the cell, decrease all cause mortality, they decrease your chance of death from anything. Now nothing can decrease your chance of death from anything unless it affects similarly every cell in your body. That way it goes across the board affects whatever the disease process is. And that's also further validation that every single disease is characterized by various degrees of intracellular calcium elevation. Magnesium, as it turns out, is an enormously important supplement because it is outside of course, not taking supplements and really minimizing dairy in your diet. Outside of that magnesium is the single best way to push calcium out, displace it and bring the magnesium level up. And when that happens, the vitamin C can come in, and the glutathione can start to be synthesized, which it can't do when the oxidative stress is high inside the cell. Oxidative stress, remember, oxidizes biomolecules, so if the high oxidative stress keeps the enzymes because you synthesize your glutathione. Unlike a lot of these other things, if you keep those enzymes oxidized, you can't make glutathione. So until you get everything squared away with the calcium and the magnesium and the vitamin C, then you can start getting healthy levels of glutathione inside your cell and keep a truly normal cell.
Erik Johnson:What about the consumption of raw dairy is not the same as consuming pasteurized dairy that you would buy in the store shelf?
Dr. Thomas Levy:In terms of calcium? Yes. Now, the calcium issue aside, raw milk has much more nutritional benefit than pasteurized milk. Absolutely. But still calcium is calcium is calcium, and you really don't want to be chronically ingesting something that has a high concentration of calcium for whatever reason. Unless of course you know, you're starving well then you need to eat what's available, but not electrically, no.
Erik Johnson:We see epidemic levels of anemia and in the medical profession, they believe that, you know, iron infusions, or iron tablets are the resolve of that. Now, you're saying different, you're saying iron is actually toxic? What do you think is happening with these rising levels of anemia, if it's not an iron deficiency issue?
Dr. Thomas Levy:Well, iron deficiency anemia is a very clear cut diagnosis, you have red blood cells that are called microcytic. They're very small, they're also hypochromic, they have a very low concentration, that's called a hypochromic microcytic anemia, most of the anemias you're talking about are called anemias of chronic disease, the red cells look normal. But there's a whole host of reasons why you're not making enough blood and it has nothing to do with inadequate iron stores. So it still baffles me how supposed specialists and sub specialists in the blood and everything else, does not make this connection, is incapable of making this connection doesn't want to make this connection. But the worst thing you can do for a chronic anemia of chronic disease, where you can document that the iron levels in your body are already elevated to take more iron, because even when, and this is in the book to let's say you have a pregnant lady, or a heavily menstruating lady, and they're losing iron, and they have an iron deficiency anemia. Even when you take iron under those circumstances, which you should you need to get your blood level up. But even under those circumstances, you get additional toxic side effects of the iron as you're taking it in. So you really need to want to avoid iron, like the plague, okay, except when it's absolutely deficient. And that means technically, you have a test in your body called ferritin. The actual blood levels of iron like serum iron, and the different iron binding capacity. So those are not very useful for telling you what the status of iron content is in your body. The ferritin level, on the other hand, is a direct indication of Do you have minimal moderate high levels of iron in your body, they have a quote unquote, normal range of iron running roughly between 50 micrograms and 400 micrograms. Well, ironically enough, all of those levels are too elevated. And we have studies that show that even 50 micrograms of the ferritin is associated with increased problems with vasculature tension, and it's only really when your ferritin starts to get 25 or less, that you're going to get close to having the right amount of iron exposure, the ruling work of thumb is, in my opinion, your ferritin can't be too low, if you have a normal hemoglobin level, and the blood picture is normal because if you have enough iron, because we've had a ton of blood in our body, relative to the tiny amounts that they say, well, iron is needed as a coenzyme here and this out of the other. Those are infinitesimal amounts of iron in the overall picture compared to the amount of iron it takes to keep your blood synthesized or go. When you have a normal blood count. You have more than enough iron for all the other circumstances and problems going on inside your body that require tiny amounts of iron and you should never never never supplement iron. If you have a normal hemoglobin count.
Erik Johnson:Thank you for that explanation that clears the air and a lot of things. One thing we see a lot with chronically ill patients or mold injured patients are fluctuating electrolytes. So it seems to be an issue, their potassium is tanking, their magnesium is tanking. What do you think is happening in the body that is causing these fluctuating levels?
Dr. Thomas Levy:Well, this might be oversimplification or it might be spot on. I can't tell you that for sure. But I will tell you that it's my take on these issues that nearly all mold problems no matter where they're located in your body, even if you manage to get it systemically in the blood in the tissues. It all starts with an abnormal microbiome, which secondarily promotes and sustains a leaky gut. So you have an ongoing plethora of pathogens in the form of bacteria, Clostridia, viruses, fungi, protozoa, they're all there in the abnormal gut. And they're truly truly one of the most toxic things and worst things you can have for your health because they primarily this abnormal microbiome primarily causes many diseases and makes all diseases worse. Okay, that's number one. Now, what I inadvertently discovered if you will, in my book rapid virus recovery, which I primarily wrote to get everybody out of the pandemic, because hydrogen peroxide immunization is a very powerful intervention for knocking out COVID early, and we even showed through some data in Columbia, South America, that for some patients, even advanced patients, it could work as a monotherapy. Well, what I also found out, and had I not written that book during the pandemic, I might have titled the book rapid gut recovery, rather than rapid virus recovery, because it's a turns out, nearly everybody has a chronic pathogen colonization, not an infection, not abseces, but a chronic pathogen colonization in their nose and airways, and lungs. And these are pathogens that continue to die and continue to produce toxins and what do you do with those you swallow it? Okay, go back to what I mentioned earlier with Erik, everything is oxidative stress. All toxins are pro oxidants. All infections or growth of pathogens are your highest producers of these toxins. So as the young people say we're swallowing this stuff, 24/7. So I've put all that together to tell you also that a leaky gut, unlike just about every other area of the body, a leaky gut is where the spaces between the cells become compromised, oxidized, if you will, compromised. And they start letting larger portions of undigested food into the lymph and blood and cause autoimmune responses and all sorts of toxic responses, food allergies, etc. Will those cells replicate every three to five days. So effectively, if you stop poisoning the gut, and you don't have super advanced disease, then I'm going to talk about advanced celiac sprue, or something like that. But just a regular upset gut, you'll heal your gut in a week if you stop swallowing the toxins. And I've since had an enormous amount of feedback at the started because I noticed three years ago, when I first nebulized hydrogen peroxide for the first time in my life, experimenting on myself 12 hours later, and I was in my late 60s At the time, 12 hours later, I had the most perfect bowel movement I've ever had in my life. And I just what's going on here? Is that what a ball movement is supposed to be like? And I said something happened between point A and point B What did I do to my nasal pharynx that impacted my gut and profoundly normalized my bowel movement. And since then, I've gotten a lot of feedback from doctors around the world. A lot of people I can't give you a percentage they start nebulizing chronic gut symptoms go away long standing diarrhea, intolerance, and I've had at least one person who measured the fungal antigens in their urine. I think it's antigens, fungal however they measure in the urine of fungus presence. Okay, that went away completely after about a month of the nebulization. So the long answer to your question is, I really think and I'm not trying to oversimplify a big problem. But I do think it does need some simplification, and that is fungi do not proliferate and survive except in a preexisting abnormal pathogen existence, which is in the case of the gut that continues to get this poisoning so swallowing these toxins 24/7. And I'm not going to say it's going to help everybody, but I swear I've gotten enormous feedback that it helps a lot. Interesting thing enough to couple times down. I mentioned that an abnormal microbiome makes all things worse. And I got this it was kind of a funny email. This lady wrote me back said Dr. Levy, I started nebulizing, I'm feeling great. In about a week later. This pain I've had in a long time in my leg just disappeared. Do you think it was the peroxide? So I don't know. And then I got another one from I don't remember what this was. This was a discomfort somewhere else in the body said the same thing. I started nebulizing peroxide, and this pain went away. What do you think happened? And I didn't go into detail with them. But like I'm saying when you stop chronically absorbing and assimilating toxins from your gut, through the leaky gut, throughout your body, everything gets better, and funguses can disappear. I'm not prepared to tell you how, what percent of the time a lot, a little most of the time, but a significant percentage of the time I would say is for anybody that has a chronic fungus problem. I would recommend at least and this is all in the book, at least nebulizing a pretty low concentration peroxide for you know, three or four minutes a few times a week and see what happens.
Erik Johnson:So just to recap, you're saying first and foremost, you need to stop breathing in the toxins.
Dr. Thomas Levy:Swallowing, swallowing, swallowing the toxins that are replicating.
Erik Johnson:Okay, so swallowing the toxin, so so are
Dr. Thomas Levy:I use the term chronic pathogen colonization, you. let me go into this when you have a cold when you have the flu, even if it was five years ago, 10 years ago, and you feel fine, and you don't have a sore throat, I guarantee you you have a chronic pathogen colonization, that's a residual of that cold or flu, unless you did a specific intervention that allows you to dissolve biofilm because all these chronic pathogens are covered with a biofilm that will not allow antibiotics through. So unless you do a peroxide, sometimes the DMSO or other agents, the biofilm does not allow the pathogens to be eradicated. And you just continue to swallow this. And people just accept Well, this is my gut, this is the way it's going to be. But when you have an intervention, then that comes in and strips away the biofilm and then kills the pathogens, and you stop swallowing those toxins that are produced on site and swallowing them, things get better. But with regard to inhaling Yeah, that might be where it initially came from you inhaled, you had a high enough concentration, you got a focal or a systemic infection. But my point is, once that infection goes away, if you've got a good immune system, the immune system in and of itself does not wipe out the pathogens completely from being colonized without a specific intervention that dissolves the biofilm because when you have a free pathogen circulating in the lymph or the blood, the antibiotic can help while it's free circulating. But the moment it attaches to a tissue site within 24 hours, it's protected by a biofilm. So if you don't knock out the pathogens in the acute process, while they're circulating, you will end up with a chronic pathogen colonization in your nose and nasal pharynx, and throat.
Erik Johnson:I guess what I'm trying to understand is when you mean by swallowing, are you referring to eating toxic food or when you know, is in the mouth?
Dr. Thomas Levy:Well, that too. I mean, any toxins you have in your mouth, you're going to swallow it. That's the whole point. But the point is, is it's not an overt infection that makes you sick. But when you've been sick before you have a surface area where the pathogens just live, they don't propagate to the point of causing an acute abscess or something like that, but their metabolism number one continues to produce toxic byproducts. Where do they go? You're swallowed them, when the pathogens do die. Here's another important point. What makes pathogens proliferate is iron. The more iron is present, the more pathogens grow. So what else happens when the pathogen finally dies is you also get a large release of free iron into the gut as well. So all of these are very powerful, pro oxidant entities that will make anything sick and in this case is targeting the gut.
Alicia Swamy:So in terms of nutrition, eating foods high in iron while you are sick with the maybe chronically sick with the pathogen or whatever, is that not advised? Or is natural iron and in say heme producing foods like red meats or whatever. Is that a safe option or is that not an option and would actually add to the problem?
Dr. Thomas Levy:What I wouldn't make the problem better, but I don't think that would be a primary way of the iron in your food is particularly stoking, if you will the activity of an area of chronic pathogen colonization. So no, I wouldn't go that far.
Erik Johnson:So it's more like the synthetic irons and maybe well, irons from your cookware or anything like that.
Dr. Thomas Levy:Well, the pathogens are not just being exposed on the outside, they're exposed everything that's coming in from the inside. So if you have a high level of iron in your body, this avidly promotes pathogen growth anywhere, literally pathogens and interestingly to cancer cells. They both thrive, they proliferate, the more free iron is present. And this is one of the main things that causes a insight to cancer to start metastasizing is when it starts getting more iron as well.
Erik Johnson:Interesting. Thank you Dr. Levy. There's no more questions from me if Erik or Kealy have some follow up questions.
Dr. Thomas Levy:A lot of this digestive stuff if you haven't read the book yet is in rapid virus recovery is free as a download. I'm not trying to sell you anything. So I this. If you don't already have it, send me an email. I'll give you the link to download it. After carrying it for a year Amazon cut me off a week ago. So you can't buy the hard copy on Amazon anymore. Do you get it on Barnes and Noble and, and eBay and my website and my publishers website and probably some other places, but I guess my profile got a little too high. I don't know.
Dr. Elizabeth Seymour:So if somebody wanted to take this vitamin C treatment, can you address the difference between sodium ascorbate and ascorbic acid?
Dr. Thomas Levy:Well, the active form of vitamin C is the ascorbate. That's the anion. Okay. And then ascorbic acid, you have hydrogen, which is the cation or sodium ascorbate sodium, which is the cation. And there's a lot of controversy over this, but I think it's pretty straightforward. I've used sodium ascorbate as a regular form, all the time when I'm using regular vitamin C, I don't think there's any additional benefit or difference therapeutically between sodium ascorbate and hydrogen ascorbate, which is ascorbic acid. Now, I think you might already be aware of this. I think Dr. Cathcart and a few other people said they thought the ascorbic acid work better. I've never seen any study to that effect and I've certainly never seen that in my own experience. And also a lot of people have delicate stomachs. The sodium ascorbate doesn't bog the stomach at all. Whereas in some people, myself included the ascorbic acid aggravates me quite substantially. Now, you can link to that ascorbate, magnesium, potassium, calcium, calcium ascorbate. There's another one for you that's advertised and promoted as buffered vitamin C. Well, you don't want to take that because if you're going to take the amounts of vitamin C that I consider to be best for you, you're going to take in a large amount of calcium. And as we mentioned earlier, doesn't really matter where the calcium is coming from, you need to minimize your new intake of calcium on a daily basis. Additional point about supplements in general is too often, in my opinion, let's say you want to supplement something, let's say it's magnesium. Magnesium is the cation. Nobody pays attention to what the anion is, but magnesium has probably 15 different ways you can supplement it because it's glycinate. It's citrate. It's a aspartate. It's glycinate. It's chloride, all of these different forms of magnesium. So when you're making your selection on any type of supplement, try to take a moment See, especially if you're looking at the cation and what you're associated anion is because it has its own unique impact and it can make the supplement better have no effect, or lessen the impact of what you're trying to take the cation for.
Erik Johnson:Doctors would try to warn people away from during the vitamin C therapy saying it would lead to kidney stones seen any evidence of that?
Dr. Thomas Levy:Zero. Matter of fact, the interesting story there, Dr. Ron honey Hackie of the Riordan clinic, he's been there about 35 years over that period of time, they've given over 100,000 intravenous infusions of vitamin C 25, 50, 75, 100 gram infusions. During that period of time, they've had zero kidney stones, okay. And you have these doctors supposedly quivering their boots about giving 500 milligrams or one gram or two grams. The story there is the most the kidney stones that you see are calcium oxalate, ring a bell? Calcium, kidney stones are due to too much calcium, vitamin C, along with many other things that you can eat or drink or supplement will give you some oxalate that has the potential of making a stone if there's a lot of calcium around, but if you address the calcium excess issue, and the things that we talked about magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin K2, vitamin D, all four of those things, guess what? They help dissolve kidney stones, and they help prevent them from coming together in the first place, because of their impact on calcium. So in answer to your question, there's zero concern about that. And there's also a host of studies that show even by blood levels, I mean, it's very soft finding when you're looking at somebody's diet or supplementation. But looking at blood levels, the higher the blood level of vitamin C, the lower the incidence of kidney stones.
Erik Johnson:Fantastic. Thank you very much.
Dr. Thomas Levy:Sure.
Erik Johnson:This has been a great talk. I don't have any further questions.
Dr. Thomas Levy:Okay. All right. Well, it's been a pleasure, folks. And I hope you have a lot of people listen to this. It's important information. And, Alicia, if you don't have the, if you don't have that book, send me an email now. I'll give you the download site.
Alicia Swamy:Sure. Yeah. And thank you so much for joining us today. It really was great and you broke down everything so eloquently. And thank you so much for that. And if anyone wanted to contact you, or check out your books, what's what's an appropriate site, I know, you're kind of on.
Dr. Thomas Levy:My website is peakenergy.com. You could tell us an old website that many people have that straightforward name and that few a number of letters, but I just started that up over 20 years ago, peakenergy.com. And I don't hide my email, my email is Tlevymd@yahoo.com. The the one that you wrote to Okay, so if that's available to anybody, that doesn't mean I'm going to do a consult where I'm going to be able to answer everybody's question, what I'm even going to try. But I take a shot at helping anybody who emails me the only thing I don't hand out is my phone number.
Erik Johnson:Perfect. So I'll go ahead and link all that in the show notes below along with your 13 other publications that have invaluable information. Thank you again for for spending your life. Just putting out the truth with information. I think we're living in such a weird, weird time with our medical establishment where they do everything backwards, it seems.
Dr. Thomas Levy:No, you're being much too kind. You're being much too kind in just referring to it in such marginally marginally insulting totes. They're assasins is, there is no doubt about it. They're assasins.
Alicia Swamy:Yeah. Wow. That's that's pretty intense for you to say that. I mean, there's no other way around it. I remember, I remember going through the tragedy of losing my mother in law to their antics, and it kills me everyday to think that like, what do you do?
Dr. Thomas Levy:The doctor that refuses to give vitamin C in the ICU, deserves to go to jail for negligent manslaughter. That would be the least of it. Now, let me give you one other practical point. And I mentioned this in the email and I'll make sure you get the article is for many years now because I get these emails from around the world. Same scenario mother, father, brother, sister in ICU doctor, same, same same. And they get shut down Well, before we just give them a ton of these articles. Well, that defeats the purpose before you start because nobody who's even marginally interested is going to look at 10, 15, 20, 30 articles. So it doesn't matter that we have 80,000 articles in the literature supporting this. So I've simplified the process. I've just started so I can't tell you how successful it will be. But the Riordan clinic I published a very nice article on their approach to cancer therapy. And they have a couple pages in there that show 25, 50, 75 and 100 grand infusions of vitamin C. So when you get all this garbage about how dangerous all this is, Well, number one, this is how the Riordan clinic has done it for 40 years. Number two, they've given over 100,000 infusions. Number three, if you would like some feedback from the clinic director who's personally administered these IVs, just to verify their safety and the lack of complications, we can put you in touch. Now if the doctor is willing to ignore all that, then just call your lawyer.
Alicia Swamy:Well, thank you for your honesty and I do appreciate that. And yeah, it seems like the best thing would be just to get a mobile IV nurse to come to your house to administer if you're sick with Covid.
Dr. Thomas Levy:Unless they've already stuck the tube down the throat, get them the hell out of the hospital. That's your that's your first major intervention toward getting toward the possibility of getting your loved one well.
Alicia Swamy:yeah, thank you so much, Dr. Levy, I knew I wish I knew all that. I know now when it was needed. But you know, that's life. But I'm gonna go ahead and do the closing. And if there I mean, before I do, if there's anything else you want to say, before we head out, please do so now.
Dr. Thomas Levy:Well, I would only say the people that are listening to this and have the books, the rapid virus recovery is you need especially with the pandemic, you need to have your ducks in a row ahead of time, just because let's say you've done well and your family does well. Does it mean and I'm not trying to be pessimistic, you're not going to get frickin COVID tomorrow, okay, so get your nebulizer, get whatever medications you can together, get yourself take the time look around a good integrative medicine physician on board. So you have all of that there when it starts I mean, believe me, the last thing you want to do is even think about any of this thing stuff once you're sick. When I got COVID I got sick as a dog and I didn't want to do anything. I was able to start my own Wii, I didn't want to do it. I didn't, I didn't want to do anything. So get yourself prepared. Not being pessimistic is being realistic. Get yourself prepared, and do not have a doctor who won't answer your questions. If you have a doctor that's unwilling to take the time to entertain Whatever your question is, don't walk out of that office, run out of it.
Alicia Swamy:Thank you. Yeah, we we interviewed Dr. Syed Haider who is actually amazing. And he's got he's got actually going to be our sponsor, where he has found all of the pharmacies that are cost effective that are willing to administer ivermectin. And that is not going through all the chain pharmacies because they are not providing that medication anymore. But he has done the due diligence and the hard work to secure ivermectin for COVID patients, and again, he's actually going to be our sponsor. So if that's something that I know that you had written in your literature ivermectin as a viable option as well.
Dr. Thomas Levy:You could knockout, COVID, completely just by giving the entire population packs of ivermectin with a couple of other things.
Kealy Severson:The virus is so smart, it knows which countries ivermectin doesn't even work in.
Dr. Thomas Levy:Yeah, it's a basic it's a very intelligent virus.
Erik Johnson:Thanks again, Dr. Levy won't take any more of your time. Please like share comment on our content, check out our show notes with Dr. Levy's information and his books. We'll have it all listed there. Please check us out on buying me a coffee. If you like what we're doing here. Please support us through that platform and check out our low cost educational group as well. patreon.com/exposing Mold. Thank you so much, everyone. We'll see you next time.