Welcome to our podcast, where I, Kealy Severson, Erik Johnson, and Alicia Swamy are exposing mold. Today we have Shelley Federico.
Alicia Swamy:Shelley Federico was a Marine Corps wife living in base housing in Naval Station Norfolk, Virginia in 2010. After falling deathly ill in her home, she sued the Lincoln Military Housing for allowing conditions that made her sick. Through her relentless efforts to seek justice, Shelley won her federal court case and walked away victorious. She became a fierce whole advocate for the military community and started her own nonprofit, the Military Mold Advisory Council, which has since changed its name and is now the Military Housing Advocates Network that works to help military families seek justice against poor living conditions.
Kealy Severson:Shelley, thank you for joining us. Can you walk us through how you, how did you discover mold in your military housing?
Shelley Federico:Crazy story, crazy story. So um, we moved to military housing in October of 2010. And crazy enough, this was the first time that I've ever lived in military housing. So just actually got married just a few months before that, and we got orders to move from Hawaii to Virginia Beach. So we did so we were a newlywed couple and in order for my husband to be close to do his mission and his job, he had to be close to base. So that entailed us living in military housing. So we moved in military housing and things were kind of going good. I started to notice that we started kind of come up with some weird illnesses that we didn't have before. My stepdaughter started to have nosebleeds and then the nose bleeds would lead to daily nose bleeds. And then I started to get a lot of upper respiratory illnesses, kept going back to the doctor. And the doctor kept saying, I don't know what's going on with you. And you know, we're on 5,6,7 rounds of antibiotics and get it got wild there for a while. The final breaking point was when, you know, we continue to ask for maintenance to come out to our home, we had a window that was in my master bedroom and it kept leaking water. And it got to be finally issue that they had to backorder a window. It was on backorder for a while because of a hurricane so we went through a hurricane with a window that should have already been replaced. So it went from bad to worse. And in that time I got gravely ill. Little did I know that six inches from where I slept in a bed was where they were going to come and cut the wall about 8 to 10 inches long. So you know, as I was sick, I didn't realize I was going and basically living in a petri dish that was making me sicker. I didn't know about mold. I thought mold was something that grew on your bread, something that they made penicillin out of. I didn't know. I started to lose a sense of taste and smell, very sick with sinusitis, rhinitis, it was bad. And one day they came in to cut into my wall and when they did, they were taking insulation chunks out of the wall, and they were just dripping with water, inside of the cavity was completely black. And it something just came over me and all of that time, to have it tested. You know, could this be is what's making me sick? And I went back and forth with my public private venture, housing venture, which is Lincoln Military Housing, to do something about it to test and they decided not to. But I decided to test. And I wanted to know what was happening. So I paid $500 for a test. And when I got the results, I believe we tested on a Wednesday or Thursday, I just remember him calling me on a Sunday and he was very frantic, the hygienist said you have to get out. And I went what are you talking about? In the interim, they had actually moved us to a what they call to swing house, which was where they put people within the community if they were ever doing any work on their houses, and he said, I think all of your things are a loss. And I thought my things are normal. What are you talking about? So as we started to really review those results, I then had a company come in and survey what I had, and they deemed that my things were a loss because there was no containment barrier set up. So in any of that remediation, all of those things and all of this spores, whatever was could have been possibly salvaged. Once you do that improperly. This is the after effects of it. So we lost everything. And I just went to my knees and I just asked the Lord, what do you want from me? Then two weeks I was able to find an attorney. It wasn't easy. But we did find one. And in the interim of that, I stumbled across a news company and they ran a story on me. That story ended up being so big that 1000s of military spouses that had once not have a way to speak of, we're speaking out. Now mind you I was so sick, so I didn't know any of these women existed. Norfolk, which is the Virginia Beach area is the largest naval installation in the world. So you have a community of a lot of bases, within a very, very small section of that area. They started coming out in droves. And I realized at that time that this is bigger than me, and what can I do to help and so I went to work. At that time, I started reaching out to congressmen and senators in the area, we were able to get their attention. And we went from local media on to a national platform of CNN. And they were able to do a 30 minute expose over that. In the interim of these things, we went from one attorney firm to four, we went from one case to 14, we went through court for about, entered our court in 2016. And it was five and a half years of hell, it is not something that is for the weak, let me say that. And it's sad, because that is our means of justice. And to be able to rectify things that have happened to us in this world. God had a greater calling and I'm just so glad to have been a part of that. And I choose to use what happened to me to educate others.
Kealy Severson:Shelley, I know that we did not have this on our list of things to talk about today. But could you briefly, because this is like a miracle story to me. Could you briefly explain how you ended up connecting with the media?
Shelley Federico:Yeah, I haven't told this to many people. And I'm sorry, if I cry. It's just um, you know, I don't push my faith on anyone. But I am a firm believer in God. And I'm a firm believer that he called me for this mission. And I don't take it lightly. So I just moved out of my house, within like a week of them opening the walls. And was going back to the doctor quite a bit during this time. I actually had an in home nebulizer, I was so sick and couldn't get any air. And they wanted to make sure that it wasn't down in my lungs. So she gave me a referral and said, I need for you to go to get an X-ray down of your lungs. And she gave me the sheet and told me where to go. Well, it's in downtown Norfolk and out and if you've ever been in Norfolk, but a lot of the streets in downtown are one way. So I'm driving and I kept getting off on the wrong street. And like the third time around, finally, I just pulled in really fast and it was a bank. And I was like, okay, God, this is insane. Like, I just need to get where I need to get like I knew at that time, you know, I couldn't rely on my brain for anything, I was finding my keys in the refrigerator. I mean, some weird things are happening with me. So I rolled down my windows, I was gonna take some some fresh air, I look over across, and there's like this three storey building, and in big letters, it says WTKR TV, and I went, you're funny God. Like I kind of chuckled underneath my breath because when you know, you know, so literally, I get out of my car. And I had my pictures and mold testing and things like that in a backpack. And literally, we'd lost everything. So I didn't have much. And I walked over to the side of the news station and there was a placard on the side of the wall. And I was trying to read it. It's like saying, you know, if you would like to speak to someone at the news desk, please call this number, this number. All the sudden I hear the door buzzes open. And I went, Well, okay, I'll walk in. So I can and there's another set of doors. And it's the same thing the placard was there. You know, if you would like to speak with someone, here's the number. You know, we don't let people in within the door buzzed again. And I thought well, okay, so I walk in and at the very beginning is a receptionist table, and there's a little lady there. She's working the desk. And she looks at me and says, Oh, honey, I thought you were somebody else. And she said, We don't normally let people in here. And I said, well, while I'm here. Is there anyone that I can speak with? And she said, Well, actually, um, they're all in a meeting. She said, everyone's in a meeting. I can take your name and number, but you need to go because this is a secure area. And I went, Okay, ma'am. And I go are you sure there's no one I can speak with. And she said, I told you, they're in a meeting. And I just, I just felt the weight of the world. Just my shoulders dropped. I was like, I'm done. You know, I can't even get anybody to speak with me. I just lost everything, didn't know what to do. All of a sudden, I turned around, and I walked to the door and I get my hand on this to the door. And I put my hand on the door, and I hear a voice I couldn't understand at first and then I heard it. I heard it the second time very clearly. And it said sit down. I said sit down. And so I sat down. She proceeds to get on her phone and call anybody that she can at any station. And I hear two or three times look over at me and say I know I know. I told this lady that you guys were all in a meeting. And then finally she gets on the phone with a news investigative reporter by the name of Laurie Simmons. She said could you please just come and talk to this girl? Around the corner comes Laurie Simmons and she said hi my name is Laurie Simmons and I said, Hi, my name is Shelley Federico. I said, I need to talk to you about Lincoln military. And she said housing. And it was in that moment that I knew, I just it, the hairs on the back of my neck. And I knew and we sat down and talked. And she said, I'm going to bring you back to speak to my news director. We've been trying to get someone to speak to us about what's happening in military housing. And I said, What are you talking about? And she said, Well, this has been going on for a while. And I said, again, I don't know what you're talking about. I've been so sick, I don't even know what end is up. And so she brought me back to speak to her news director and a news director looked at me and she said, If what you're telling me is true, this is going to be the largest thing to happen on the east coast in 50 years. I just lost everything. You know what I mean? I didn't realize how what I was going through, had anything to do with anybody else. Now, here we are 11 years later, I get it. I'm grateful that someone stopped, because we're going against some very strong willed, opinionated, and people that have very deep pockets. And this is all I really need to tell you is that there are 1000s of military people that are extremely sick, children that are extremely sick. And it's sad to say that, you know, I've proven that to cause in the Lincoln, in a federal court case. But yet, the numbers are getting greater and larger, faster. Instead of this slowing down, it's actually speeding up. And it's scary. We don't do something and we don't do something soon. This is a matter of national security, we're going to be too sick to defend our own borders. This is truly America's problem. And I need for people to understand that this isn't just a secular issue. This is talking about the defensive of our country, and the people that to ensure that freedom for us to have that. And I think a lot of people are just kind of glazing this over. As well you know, this is just a problem with the military. But really, it's not just a problem with the military. This is a problem for every person that pays taxes in America because you're funding this. You're funding this debacle that our military families are currently facing.
Kealy Severson:Thank you for sharing that Shelley, I find that story incredible and I think we all fell to pieces and wiped a tear, not sure. You had some pretty significant court winnings, not only did you win your case, but you set a case precedent with the neuroquant. Can you speak on that piece?
Shelley Federico:Yeah. So through my case, I was very fortunate to have some amazing attorneys, I was very fortunate to have some amazing doctors. And you know, I'm talking pioneer doctors, I'm talking Dr. Shoemaker, pioneer doctors, Dr. Ross, pioneer doctors, you know, God really afforded me the luxury to have them and I truly feel that I wouldn't be wearing that at this point in my life had I not had, you know, the support of so many that were trending in the right direction that, you know, it wasn't just about what I said it was about actually being able to prove that quantitatively, to be able to show that in court to a jury of people that, you know, hadn't walked in our shoes. They didn't, they weren't sick from mold, and half of them hadn't been in the military or any of them. The cool thing about it is that neuroquant is the last eight to 10 minutes of an MRI. And what it does is it quantitatively shows the different parts of your brain, it's able to show a left and a right hemisphere. And it is able to show if there's any encephaly or any atrophy in the brain and we're seeing that there's consistent findings with people that have been exposed with mold. Dr. Ross is a pioneer in the field. The cool thing about him is that, you can go to his website, and he talks a lot about mold. Not only was my family tested, but the first 14 families were tested. We were kind of our own little case study and to be able to prove, you know what this does, and to use this test to be able to prove those things, which I think that's what a lot of people in the mold community face is being able to talk about your symptoms, but to be able to prove them and to have it a standard to do that is very great. And for all of us that we face it and it shouldn't be. This should be something that, you know, we're able to roll into a doctor's office and get a test and move on. I mean, really, it should but here we sit. So the neuroquant, what it does, again, is it shows quantitatively the brain, we will able to prove what's called the Daubert standard in federal court. We got it introduced for the first time ever, they'd never been introduced in court. So once they admitted that and we used it, it's amazing what it can do. And the more that people study about it, and what that looks like in mold, I've yet to really see anyone who's really sick who had had a neuroquant. You weren't, you're able to see so much more. You know, people don't realize how greatly the brain is affected. Everybody gets lost in the sauce, about the symptoms that they see, the runny nose, the nosebleeds, the loss of taste and smell, you know, I had all these things. But little did I realize that my brain looked like Swiss cheese. Right? I didn't know little did I realize how bad you know, Joe's brain was and it was even worse than mine. And he was in the house half the amount of time that I was, you know, I mean, he served 20 years for his country and this is what he walks away with, a brain injury from military housing. I mean, it's mind boggling. So I truly hope that people are able to really delve into neuroquant to see what that's about. It's an option available for a lot of people, insurance pays for it a lot of times, it's just that people, if you don't know to ask you to you don't know to ask. So we need to be talking about that a lot. It's this isn't a notoriety thing. This is, you know, when you prove things, and it's a way to help other people, it is our due diligence to move forward and do what we can to educate our people. Right? That's what we're doing is we're educating our people and giving them a means in a way to be able to explain what is happening to them medically, because that seems to be the biggest mystery of this whole thing, right? Let's use that tool, lets neuroquant. You can go online, neuroquant is done through Cortech's Labs. So if you look at Cortech's Labs through neuroquant, and you will be able to look at it a little bit more. You can go to Dr. Ross, he is in Midlothian, Virginia, and you're able to kind of look at him and the things that he's done. He has a few videos on YouTube, about mold and the neuroquant. So please feel free to go on and check them out.
Kealy Severson:So it sounds like you're getting this introduced was it was like it's like a landmark change for court cases and for medical cases. And I know that this inspired a lot of passion for you to start your advocacy work, and eventually formed a nonprofit for military advocacy because of your experiences.
Shelley Federico:Actually, I waited. You know, I truly thought us moving through court with such a landmark case would put a halt to things. You know, in your mind you think okay, well, we just proved the improvable. So it's going to stop happening, when in fact, that's not what happened. What happened is my phone double down started ringing. People were calling me going, are you that girl? Can you help me? Who are you, you know, and then when you start to realize it's people from your own community, and what can you do to help them, you know, I refuse to let another person have to suffer in the manifestation that I did, if you are afforded the luxury of the things that I've been given, it's my due diligence to help the people moving forward. And that's what I'm going to do. And that's just how it is. So I just kind of made up my mind, I decided to form a fully functioning 501c3. I wanted to be able to help people in the right way. That's what I did. And from that, I was able to really get people kind of headed in the right direction about advocacy, who to reach out to, you know, when when they were literally at the end of the rope, and tried, you know, to work with their housing provider. Unfortunately, I know a lot of people give them, you know, multiple chances and it just seems like they just come with this stagnant place. But in the interim, while they're stagnant in in what it is that they choose to do, the families are still living in these houses. So that's where it becomes that, you know, while we're toggling back and forth, the families are still breathing in this environment every day. And depending on the severity of it's going to depend on the severity of the sicknesses. So it's a sad thing. But um, I'm surely grateful that the nonprofit has done what it needs to do, we worked with the Senate Armed Services Committee and the House Armed Services Committee to form a Tenant Bill of Rights. And that's in the National Defense Authorization Act for the year 2020. And what it does is it gives the people that are living in military housing a means and way to try to resolve the issues, but that they have a way that, for example, they can ask for seven years of maintenance records of history. So as they're moving around to different bases, they're able to kind of see what they're moving into, right? Let's give them a little bit of warning, this house has had a lot of lead or remediation. Let the family at least be able to make an educated decision before they move into this house. Right? Ultimately, I don't care what you do. That's what you want to do for your family, that's fine, but at least give them a roadmap and exactly what they're moving into. So it's not a secret. If after you move into this house, and you're still having problems, give them way as the Tenant Bill of Rights says that we can withhold our base housing allowance until we get the issue resolved. That Senate Bill of Rights is a great thing. I think we're going to need a little bit more teeth to enforce what is happening. And I think that we'll get there in due time. I think people are understanding that if we don't move forward and we really don't press hard with this Tenant Bill of Rights, that we're trending in a direction that we don't want to go in. And again, this is another National Security if we don't get this, right, so I think we have enough people's attention in the way that it needs to go. Unfortunately, we're not getting there fast enough. I still get calls daily, you guys. I still get new people daily how they find me, I'll never know? Other than the nonprofit. But you know, not everybody even knows about the nonprofit, is the crazy thing. So there has to be an ending to this in some way, shape, or form. I don't know what that's going to be ultimately. I truly feel at this point in the ballgame, honestly, the only way to end this is to cancel these contracts. These are 50 year contracts that are given to them. We're about halfway through them and they've been catastrophic honestly since day one. And it's only getting worse. But the people that are the carnage from all the things that are happening, are the people that defend and protect this country. And I think everybody's kind of negating that part. And that's a tragedy within itself.
Alicia Swamy:Is it okay to just provide us information on your nonprofit in case, you know, people want to seek help, and instead of them calling you.
Shelley Federico:I am going to be switching directions and the things that I'm going to be doing. So I have to step away from the nonprofit. So the nonprofit is now rolled in with a group of women who have taken it over and actually renamed it, it's The Military Housing Advocates Network. And you can find them on Facebook, again, that's Military Housing Advocates Network and there are a group of women on there that would be happy to help you and send you in the right direction. If you need advocacy in any way, shape, or form. From, you know, finding people within Congress, attorneys, testing, you name it, that's going to be Sara Klein. And again, you can look them up on Facebook, they're doing great things with this. And they're going to pass that on kind of taking a new venture and the way that I'm going to do things, and we'll see what that entails. But I know that these women at the drop of the hat would be able to help you and assist you. They deal with almost every base that I can possibly name off, they help them, all the way to Alaska. So you know, this isn't just I live on the coast problem. We help people in Alaska with mold. So you know, when people say, Oh, that's a, that's a water thing. You're right it is. But unfortunately, we do help people there. So they're great people, they will do whatever it takes to to steer you in the right direction to get you you know, whatever it is that you need. I'm grateful to have women behind me that are educated. A lot of these women have gone to Congress with me so they understand not only the advocacy side of it, they understand the Tenant Bill of Rights side of it, they understand the court side of it, a lot of these women are in cases. We are literally seeing cases pop off California, Florida, Texas, North Carolinam, Virginia, Washington state. They're just they're coming and they'll continue to keep coming because you know, not only are people starting to realize what's going on, but they're realizing that they don't have to live this way. And you know, when people finally realize that they don't have to live this way, is a game changer. And, you know, we've seen a lot of people sick. And it's just a very unfortunate thing. You know, it's unfortunate regardless if your sick, moldy wise, in my eyes. But when you when you compound that, that people that defend and protect the Constitution of the United States of America, that's a pretty dicey thing. And a lot of people need to be taking this a lot more serious. The irony is that, you know, almost everyone that we speak to you to some degree, whether you're in the military or outside. I mean, I advocate for people outside of the military all the time, somebody always knows somebody that was either in the military or currently in the military. So this really affects everybody more than what you realize even on that on that first level, you know, it keeps going from there, but it really does affect everyone, and we're spending a lot of money for these families to be sick. You know, the medical help on base is slim to none. That's a travesty again, within itself, because not only do you have a problem with it, but you know, when the contract is divided 49% for DOD and 51%, the PPV. I mean, do you think that 49 is going to tell on 51?
Kealy Severson:Can you break down what those numbers mean for the listener?
Shelley Federico:Sure. So the way that the contract, the majority of them, not all of them, but the majority of the way that these contracts are divided, again, they're 50 year ground leases. And they're laid out as 100% whole, and 49% of them are going to be the Department of Defense. So there's still there's still a holder in that contract. There's still a stakeholder because at the end of the day, that's still their ground, their houses, right? The 51% is going to be the public private venture. And they're comprised of 13, 14 different companies. And they are going to be the ones that have stepped in to do the different bases. So we'll have one base that will do sometimes we'll have two companies that will be on one base depending on how big the base is, and there they privatized maintenance to all of these homes. But again, if I was sick, in the end, part of that contract is that 51% made me sick. And I went on base to the 49%, and said that 51 made me sick. Do you think 49 is going to do? That's what we said, you know, it's one thing to deny that it's another thing when you're walking around running up the health care bill, because then as these people are not treated for what they're supposed to be treated for, then they're treated for all of the other symptoms that come along with it. And when you just treat the symptoms, and you just run up the health care bill, because you're still chasing your tail back to exactly why you were sick the beginning, right? So if we could just segue this backwards, triage these people at bases individually, have a protocol set up to where we start detoxing them, further dumb that down to make sure that the places that they're living are clean and sterile environment and no longer have these fungi and lead and issue problems. These are the things that we're going to have to do to fix this problem. And until we address those two issues, we are never going to get in front of this. We will constantly be run over by the ball. And you know, I truly hope that somebody somewhere can just for a second, just put it down and say, Look, this isn't about blame anymore, because we've done that. This is about proving it anymore, because we've done that. This isn't about any of those things, those are off the table. What it's about here now is where we sit in 2021. Right, so about what we did, it's about where we are. And where we are is in a place that if we don't start truly look at the medical aspect of this is where we will be doomed because we will continue to further chase ourselves. If you take that same toxin and you don't detox, it's basically like a bullet ricocheting in your body. Right, just gonna keep doing damage until you start to detox. So by you doing more damage is more things that you're going to have to go subsequently and go to the doctor for. It's just a continuing thing. So let's take the snake and rip the head off. And let's do it the right way. Right. So the right way is to get back from the beginning, the right way is to make sure a, that we live in a clean, sterile, safe environment. The second part of that is to make sure that we have detoxed and that for the for the illness and the things that have happened to us that we're proactively moving forward. That's how we fix this problem. And when we get in front of it is when we're going to stop spending all of this extra money allocated for medical, you know, our medical through TRICARE, I'm sure is asinine at this point. It doesn't need to be, right, let's save money, if the object of all of this is about money. And that's what this boils down to, then let's all put our heads together at the table. Let's stop playing the deny game and let's say let's just fix it. Like let's work together and fix this. And I would be willing to sit down with anyone from the PPV to the DOD on down. I have the answers unfortunately, I've had to seek those answers the hard way. But when you live through it, and you come off the other side, you kind of have an answer to things and either people choose to hear or they don't, you know. So that's kind of my viewpoint, and a lot of this is if we do come together, we do have the opportunity to change this for 1000s of people. And to be the people that you know, allow these people in the DOD to come back and be the saviors of the day, that's fine. I don't need the credit for this, I just need for you to stop affecting my people. And either you fix it or I'm gonna, that's kind of my stance in this. Either you do the right thing, or I'm going to make sure that you do the right thing. Choice is yours. It doesn't really matter to me.
Alicia Swamy:You go girl. I think Erik has a question for you.
Erik Johnson:I was just gonna say that I can provide a practical example of how this is a threat to national security, as told in Dr. shoemakers book, surviving mold. It was in the Army during the latter end of the Cold War in Germany, in a bunker that had a toxic mold problem in the basement. And in 1976, my unit got so sick, a flu went through in addition to the mold, and this flu affected everybody so badly that 70% of my unit was laid out on sick call. Nobody ever seen such a severe rate of illness. So my missile was taken from the active duty roster, unable to function. So yeah, here we are a frontline nuclear missile unit, protecting against the Soviets at the time, and we were unable to perform due to toxic mold.
Shelley Federico:And the sad thing is you know, with so much happening in the war, we are the world's leader in being the peacekeeper, right? We are the world's leader in defense. That's who we are and we're proud to be those people. We work hard to make sure that we maintain that status. That I can assure you one thing my ex husband couldn't even remember where he lived. We had to place a flag out in front of our house because every single day, he would drive by our house and miss it. And I don't know what you know about Marines, but they're probably one of the most detail oriented in all of the services. And the longer that you've been in, the more detail oriented that you are. I mean, that's just part of it. They don't call herself the few and the proud for no reason. So to see that right in front of your eyes, and to know that that is happening on such a mass scale, is terrifying to me. And it should be terrifying to every American because it's happening in large quantities. We may just be just the spouses of this, but we're trying to send out a warning flag to the world for them to help us, to our own people to this nation for people to stand up and say, Look, I need for you to get behind us, I need for you to understand what is happening. You know, I get that this is about mold, and I'm understanding those things. But there's more to it than just that. You know, the day that I found a paper that was conducted a study by the Army about mycotoxins, and it was dated in the 80s. And what that paper did, is it revealed to me that they knew. And that's where I have a problem with this.
Erik Johnson:That paper was Dr. William Croft. Yes, he it out in 1986. And it was the first peer-reviewed evidence entered into the medical literature concerning tricothecences and the dangers of toxic mold.
Shelley Federico:But here it is my own people. Yes, we live in the military communities. Exactly. So you know, as we as we talk about this, that's the way that we talk. These are my people, this is my community. So what you're telling me is that somebody 30 years ago, is talking about things, that's asinine to me. I'm arguing and trying to get help on a military facility. But yet, I can look at a paper from 1986. And, you know, I actually gave that to a provider one time, I said, you told me that that mold doesn't make you sick? Well, here's your copy.
Kealy Severson:But Erik, didn't they try to destroy the author of that article and discredit that info?
Erik Johnson:Yes.
Kealy Severson:Can you talk about that a little bit?
Erik Johnson:Oh, well, the Center for Disease Control analyzed the evidence and without actually casting doubt on it simply said it was inconclusive, needs for the research, and shoved it. So they didn't really negate, him all they did is ignore it, and failed to touch the suitable importance to it that could translate this paper into real action.
Shelley Federico:Sad. Well, I knew that here's the thing about mold. You know, I hope that the insurance company listens to this podcast and all the naysayers above because here's the message, you can deny this till you're green in the face. But the simple fact is this, the people are sick, you can't deny these people that are in the 1000s that are sick, and they're not going to get any better until they get the right medical attention. And they're not going to get better if you stick them back in an environment that's going to make them sick. So if we don't start to grasp those two solid principles, things will not change, whether that's for the military, or anybody else, you know, we've got to apply both of those practices, both ways. So I hope that's the takeaway from a lot of these as people are listening about mold, is that as you learn things, things become scary. When you start talking about getting out your health, when you're looking at mold and mycotoxins and all of these things, and you're sick yourself so you're trying to decipher through all of this new set of knowledge, and it becomes a lot. I hope that people just understand a few basic principles is that mold isn't hard to grow, it takes three things to make it grow, it needs water, it needs a cellulose source, and it needs the right temperature is literally that simple. You know, people try to make this into something that it's not, it's there. We have to look at it for what it is right and not make it for what it's not. We don't need to hype it up. We don't need to be all that. But what we need to do is be studious to what is happening around us studious do when we have a water leak that we correctly fix the problem studious to the fact that when we are sick that we are moving forward to get the proper treatment that we need. And if we can just plug in those two things. I'm telling you right now that a lot of the illnesses that we have in this world will stop. A lot of things are directly tied to mold.
Erik Johnson:Like chronic fatigue syndrome.
Shelley Federico:A lot of things, we're looking at dementia or Alzheimer's. I mean, we could do this for days, right? If people would really understand that if the insurance industry and the healthcare industry, you know, I'm not really a big fan of Big Pharma and it is what it is, you know,it is what it is. I'll just leave it at that. I will say this, you can only keep people so sick to where they're no good for you anymore. So if you want to keep your your busy bee workers doing the things that the busy bee workers do to fund this great nation, you might want to step off and get your foot off their throat for just a minute so that they can breathe again.
Kealy Severson:Even if they think they can transition to just all AI, newsflash, this is eventually going to affect everyone on this planet. Nowhere is safe if this isn't dealt with properly. So have fun with that blowing up on your face, right?
Shelley Federico:Right? Well here's the thing about it. You know, everybody says, Oh, she wants to talk about is mold. Look, here's the thing, regardless of what your religion, mold is still talked about in the Bible, it's talked about in Leviticus. It says that the priest went and looked at the house and he said, at the mold is still here and seven days that you were to remove everything from the house and start clean. Look, I'm not reinventing the wheel here. I'm just showing you the spokes. What you choose to do with that is up to you. That's all I'm here to do. I'm just the vessel. And I tell people that all the time, I'm not the moldy mama, I'm not, I'm not look, no. I'm here to show you all of the things that are happening on that wheel. And all of those things are all interconnected to some degree. And if you slow down and look at each of those spokes individually, you'll notice that one leads to another to another to another. And until you start to understand that, again, you're chasing your tail.
Erik Johnson:In my mold incident in 1976, we were being terrorized by a local Baader Meinhof gang, the Red Army Faction, who is blowing up officers clubs and attacking various units around northern Germany. So when my unit got sick, we suspected that we had been attacked by some biological weapon that the Baader Meinhof had gotten ahold of. So my unit commander called the biological warfare division to come do an investigation. And they examined the mold and they attached no importance to it. They told us to clean it up, that it can cause allergies, but they didn't think of it as a toxic threat at the time. So my commander told me that, despite what they said he was going to clean up the mold. And if the rate of illness did not abate, he was going to order an emergency evacuation and take us all out to the field. So he was extremely concerned about that. But at that time, the military really didn't seem to know anything about toxic mold. And we don't know, we don't have any evidence that they really did, until that Croft paper of 1986. But after that, they definitely knew there's no doubt,
Shelley Federico:Well, it's kind of like in the same, you know, we can play the deny game for so long. But for me, unfortunately, I spent five and a half years in federal court, so that I can remove that, that as being something that somebody can say to me. It's sad that it's ventured in that way. But here's the thing, if you've already seen it, you can't unsee it. If you already know it, it's like you can choose to deny it, you can choose to look the other way. But the elephant is still in the room. Right. And that's kind of where we all are in all of this. And, you know, until we can really get some solid EPA regulations on what is allowable in homes. I think that would be a great thing in the future that we could move forward. I've kind of given up hope on the CDC, I don't think they could find them with both hands if they had to. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to trust in them to do the right thing. I know that ICRC has done a lot of great things, to try to set some standards for remediation, we're talking about the S 520 and the S 500. That's for water restoration. At least we've got other things, you know, the ICRC is actually just a nonprofit that started out but people are having to fill in the gaps because the government is not doing what the government needs to do for its people. You know, I'm not asking them to jump outside the confounds of things. But to me, this is a carcinogen. It shouldn't be any different than any other things that we've listed as carcinogens. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years, I don't have cancer. I mean, it is what it is what it is. I can't help what's going to happen in the future. But what I can do is I can try to prevent the things that are happening now. Right. And that's going to be as talking about it and for us to test, and to do the right thing. Right, do the right thing. No more bleach. I think a lot of us have Erik and it's sad because you've got the insurance industry which has been told to me that if the insurance industry has to pay on a lot of these small claims that it would basically bankrupt the insurance industry. I'm sorry for your bad luck. That's not my problem. My problem is that as long as we continue to look the other way, this is going to get greater and greater, denying is no longer a plausible thing.
Erik Johnson:Well, that's the thing they are denying. They're saying that they need further education, that our evidence is inconclusive. And really, they know better.
Shelley Federico:Well, I have a federal court case that says different. There's about 200-300 cases that are sitting in federal court right now ready to move forward to try to prove things that are happening right now in real time. And it's sad that I feel that that's the only way that things are really going to change, but it is what it is. So we've all got to join together. And we've all got to start talking and networking. In the in the military community and outside of the military community.
Erik Johnson:I think the main leverage that we have is to explain that these matters are really not inconclusive, that much knowledge has been out in the public realm for a long time. And really, our officials, the CDC, NIH, and Department of Defense, have to stop feigning incompetence, or failing that they don't understand this problem, when we are very much aware that they do.
Shelley Federico:Great. Again, I have a federal docket that says different. That's one of those things that you know, I don't tout it. But here's the thing when you walk five and a half years on a case and prove something that has never been proven, and that can be used as a basis for so much, I'm going to cram it in your face. I'm going to show you that there is a way and if that's the way that it has to be then so be it. The gloves are off. There's too many people sick and we've got to et in front of this.
Alicia Swamy:Amen to that sister, and thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and just for the work hat you've been doing. I mean, o start a nonprofit and just he p everyone whether they're in mi itary housing or not is am zing. So all of our listeners ou there, feel free to check ou our show notes. We will link th Military Housing Advocates Ne work, in case you're in erested in seeking help yo rself, let's respect Shelly ederico and her privacy, let's ot reach out to her. Make sure hat you go to that organizati n, check that out. And again thank you so much girl, you ar just kicking butt and I'm so gl d to have you as an ally in o r corner. And however we c n help you go through this o push this or whatever you nee. We are here for you honestly we are right there with you w th what we've all been through. And I mean, I just comme d you for fighting for this w ile sick, because I totally u derstand, you know, Kealy, Erik, and I sometimes we stru gle just to get this podcast g ing because of environmental fac ors that we have to deal with. o I totally get the energy and the extra effort it takes for pe ple like us who have been affe ted to work on this. So those of you listening out there, you now that we are passionate a out this and this is what we re making our life's work, e en while being sick. Because we don't want people to go thro gh what we've been through. I's hell, it's horrible, and peo le don't need to suffer like th s. And the people that re squelching this, you guys bet er hurry up and get your s it together, because you're j st pissing everyone off even mo e and it's making us want o pursue this even further. o that's right, we all need to s t down together and talk abo t, people who are in charge peo le who are sick, let's come up w th solutions. Let's stop ba mouthing eachother, let's stop throwing each other under the ru, or silencing each other. Let' sit down as a team and figure his thing out. Okay, yes, so much, and everyone for listen ng. Thank you so much for coming in today. I mean, this was an ncredible heartwarming story. I mean, the stories that c me on our podcast, it's so hard or me not to be emotional becau e I feel like I can connect w th every single individual on ere. And I'm just so happy that here are people in this world that are good, that are trying to help. And that's important. o please like, share, com ent, and subscribe to our co tent and also check out our Pa reon and GoFundMe pages to eep this podcast rolling. hank you again, everyone we'll see you ne