Episode 35 - Boho Camper Vans with Founder's, David Sodemann and Brett Ellenson

Boho Camper Vans builds, rents and sells camper vans out of their operations in Tempe, Arizona. Their beautiful, functional and affordable style has caught the eyes of large media outlets including Business Insider, Curbed.com, BuzzFeed and ABC's Shark Tank, where they struck a deal with Barbara Corcoran (Season 11, Episode 16 - aired March 20th, 2020). 

The team at Boho has converted over 100 camper vans, 14 of which are currently being rented out of Phoenix, AZ. In less than three years, Boho Camper Vans has organically grown from a single rental van parked in a residential driveway, to a 22,000 sq. ft. indoor production facility, building and renting vans for clients all over the country.

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Transcript

Kealy Severson: 0:04

Welcome to our podcast where I Kealy Severson, Erik Johnson and Alica Swamy are exposing. Today we have Brett and David from boho camper vans.

Alicia Swamy: 0:15

Boho Camper Vans builds rents and sells camper vans out of their operations in Tempe, Arizona. Their beautiful, functional and affordable style has caught the eyes of large media outlets including Business Insider curbs.com BuzzFeed and ABC Shark Tank where they struck a deal with Barbara Corcoran. The team at boho has converted over 100 camper vans 14 of which are currently being rented out of Phoenix, Arizona. In less than three years boho camper vans has organically grown from a single rental van parked in a residential driveway, to a 22,000 square foot indoor production facility, building and renting vans for clients all over the country. David Solomon is a co founder of boho camper vans and manages the marketing, branding and online presence for the company. Educated as an architect and marketer. David has grown brands across a variety of industries including travel, entertainment, health and wellness. his inspiration to start boho came from renting a camper van in Hawaii where he was able to explore the island affordably and in a unique way. Following his trip he built and began renting a single van to make extra income but it quickly grew into what boho is today. Brett Allanson also co founded boho camper vans and heads the building and manufacturing operations. His background and mechanic started at an early age where he built and raced his own short course baja vehicles, eventually turning his passion into a career selling large scale manufacturing equipment. Brett's broad concept of systems including electrical plumbing and construction have a lot boho to grow very quickly in just two years. He now runs Bohos build crew currently managing over 20 technicians with more joining each and every month. This podcast is brought to you by Michael Rubino, the Mold Medic and All American Restoration, the first and only mold remediation company in the country specializing in remediating mold for people with underlying health conditions or mold sensitivities. They've quickly become the most recommended remediation company from doctors and mold inspectors nationwide. Check out our show notes to pick up your copy of Michael Rubinos book, the Mold Medic an expert guide on mold remediation, or visit all American restoration.com to get your home assessed and get your health back on track today.

Kealy Severson: 2:37

We are so excited to host you. I have to tell you guys, Alicia shared the clip with us and we shared it with our Facebook audience about your Shark Tank your presentation and it was so cool watching all the sharks fight over who gets help company it was it was awesome. Seeing Everyone's so interested. And your company is a great fit for our audience because we work with environmentally injured people who are looking for vehicles that are mobile that have dual purpose or like smaller RVs. Erik here has actually made a mobile unit himself just for that purpose. And he's constantly urging me to get one but I'd love to hear your background story about how this business idea started. I heard it had something to do with a vacation in Hawaii. Is that correct?

David: 3:30

Yes, this is David. I'm one of the owners. And you know, Brett sitting next to me, he's he's the other side of it. Yeah, so it started just, you know, it really was a trip to Hawaii. I had been years ago and saw that there was a cheap ticket to fly out there. And just immediately booked it kind of on a whim. And we had didn't have lodging and we started looking at lodging on the island of Maui, we were a bit blown away by the pricing. We had this cheap plane ticket thinking it was gonna be like a nice cheap vacation to Hawaii. For those of you who have who have been, that's not the case. But we ended up finding a camper van to rent. And I'd always heard about it being pretty popular out in New Zealand and Australia. But it wasn't something that was super mainstream or common yet and this, was call, it three years ago. We just had an awesome time I went with my fiance and you know it was cool because you get to explore the islands in a totally different way. You get to camp close to the beach, without paying for the super expensive resorts. You get to do you know road to Hana which is something we wanted to do and you need to rent a vehicle anyways, we came back from the trip, just all excited, thinking this is something we want for ourselves. Because we are in Arizona and there's actually you know, there's a great amount of things to see here. Whether it's national parks, or there's just first camping areas just lots of land that's untouched, that a camper van would be really good to explore with. So after we got back, Brett is actually a friend I've known actually since our high school days. And he lives out in Phoenix as well. We sat down one night, and we had dinner. And I told him about the idea, because I'm not a builder. It's kind of funny to imagine that because we have a, you know, a large shop now, but I'm not a builder, and Brett is. And so we talked about the experience, I said, Hey, if we can just get this van built, we can kind of go in at 50/50. We'll use it when we want and then rent it on the side. And hopefully we can pay off, you know, the investment. At the time, well, we thought it was a good idea and Brett was like, yeah, sounds cool. If you guys knew me, you would know that I always have lots of crazy ideas. And sometimes they come to fruition, sometimes they don't. So I think we left that night with, you know, kind of excited, but yeah, we'll see if it really happens.

Brett: 5:58

Yeah

David: 5:59

We ended up finding a van that week, I called Brett and I said, Hey, I bought the van. And you're like, I guess we're doing this right? We're gonna do it. And it's real. Now. also kind of crazy is that at the time, I took out $16,000 on a credit card to buy the van. That's all the money I had or didn't have. And so it was really kind of this idea of let's build the van. And we did it basically nights and weekends, because we were working full time. And we put it up to rent. And we were just immediately amazed at how many people were renting it, you know, we were hoping to be able to just pay off the credit card within 15 months without before interest hit. And very quickly, we realized that it was going to generate money on top. So what did we do after that, I mean, we decided me to get another one. And then...

Brett: 6:51

it was. So the first van that we had was Stevie that we got built out. And then and we have bookings for that kind of as we do now, like before the vans even done, we have a completion date, we'll put it up for rent. And that happened. And then we just decided, hey, you know, this is go full 50/50 on this, we already in 50/50 for, the, you know, David bought the van, I paid for the materials to go in the van and then you know, labor to build it out. And then kind of just became natural as the first van was rented out basically, immediately. And it was rented out for like two, three months, within, you know, like a month of us putting it up that we should get a second one because there's obviously a little bit of a need for it. And the rest is history. From there, we just kept, you know, building out of necessity is really what it was. And it was a truly organic growth. We never took any loans Besides, you know, paying off Dave's credit card that he took to buy the first van but I mean, everything has just been, you know, to the just that just an organic customers have driven our growth from the company, basically.

Alicia Swamy: 7:55

It's beautiful, how life just kind of steers you in the direction that you should be going into unexpectedly, I would have to say that's kind of similar to our situation here. As you can see, we're we're very different roles from all different age groups here with Exposing Mold. But we all share a common purpose and that is helping people who have been injured by chemicals, their home any type of biotoxins. And so what we see a huge need is people like needing an alternative or a safe place to go. If their home is being remediated or they found toxic mold their home, there's no matter how much remediation they could do. They're still sick and need to leave. And so that's why I wanted to link up with you guys because you offer that kind of cushion for the people that we serve and people that we educate. So could you maybe just walk us through the process of first let's do rentals. What would it look like to rent one of your vans?

David: 8:58

Sure. We have various vans on our website. Right now I think we have 13 vans and a Jeep. They're all more or less designed differently, but they have the same components. So on the outside they had different colors or tile, tile choices, flooring, colors, bedding, upholstery, all of that. But ultimately, the vans are running the same systems, right? So people would go to our website they'd maybe choose a van based on name are colors, but right now because they're in really high demand, they're probably just choosing a van based on availability. They can immediately just like you were to book an Airbnb, they can put down a deposit to reserve and it's instant. They don't have to go back and forth talking with us if they want to know they want to do a trip. They can just pick a van pick their dates, pay a deposit and they're locked in. Once the, you know, the arrival time comes for their trip, they come by, We have an awesome rental staff here in Phoenix, where we do about a 30 minute training. Depends on the on the renter, showing them how the systems work, right? So how do you fill the water tank? How does the sink work? How does the fridge work, van, and then you know, they're ultimately like, I can plug in my laptop and work and absolutely, the vans are equipped with off grid systems. So we have solar panels on the roof. And that's charging a battery bank which holds a charge and power for you to to draw off of all the elements inside the van work off the system. So it's really a true off grid experience. RVs generally will need to be plugged in and hooked up via short power. We do have that capability if they do want to plug in and run some some high energy space heater or something like that. But most people are are going off grid, that's really the goal and they wanted to the amenities of an RV, they would probably rent an RV and hook up at a campsite.

Brett: 11:03

Or run a noisy generator that you know, wakes up the whole campsite or, you know, stuff like that, you know,

David: 11:09

But, you know, it just depends on what people want. And I think people come to Arizona knowing that there's all sorts of stuff to see the Grand Canyon, like we mentioned, Petrified Forest is a very underrated place to go see. Antelope Canyon. I mean, we have lakes, we have snow. Most people don't realize that we're originally from Wisconsin, and it's kind of funny because family always says "there's snow in Arizona?" Yeah, I mean, just got to drive two hours north to Flagstaff, you know, so there's really every kind of element you would want. There's even rivers and streams that mimic the waters of Hawaii with waterfalls, maybe you've seen some pictures of have a superpi there's all sorts of really incredible places to go see and that's what people are doing.

Alicia Swamy: 11:52

Fantastic. I'm currently in Scottsdale and Kealy is in Wisconsin right now. And you're absolutely right Arizona I mean, I escaped here from Oregon because my home was killing me and making you very sick and so we chose to stay here and I was just shocked by how beautiful it is I'm like we're driving down and I'm like there's snow there's you know, the canyons there's rivers I mean like Arizona is just such a unique and gem of a place I think you guys really chose a really good place to start your business in. Now with that said, Do you guys deliver the vans or if people that want to rent your vans do they have to come and pick up in Phoenix?

Brett: 12:35

The only rental hub that we have is out of our main warehouse and main headquarters here in Tempe, so we are actually in very close proximity to the airport. So, it's really only a maybe a five minute Uber ride to actually run we chose this position at this location rather than, you know, trying to get further outside of the you know city for maybe a little bit cheaper rent you know, we knew that a big part of the company was gonna be the rental side of our company and making the ease for the customer from the time they get off the plane to the time to get here and you know, having that process just start off on a good foot from not having a 30 minute Uber ride you potentially have to sit in traffic I mean airport to our location there's a you know two three routes that will get you here in five minutes no matter what.

Alicia Swamy: 13:24

So when a person decides to rent your van do they have to stay in Arizona? Or can they like depending on the time lengths that they book it for which I don't know if there's a minimum or a maximum for you guys? Can they kind of just use it and take it all around the United States?

David: 13:42

They can go everywhere in the United States and everywhere in Canada, so there's no limits on where they can go. Unfortunately, Mexico is off limits and we are really close but most people go north anyways. Yeah, it's we've had vans in New York, we've had vans, all the way up in you know, Yellowstone, Northern Michigan, Florida. They've been paved basically everywhere across the United States. Everyone's trying to go to Canada and I think they just loosened restrictions. But that's one of the places that I know I personally want to go and take the trek up from Phoenix up to Alberta and perhaps see some of the amazing lakes they have up there.

Alicia Swamy: 14:20

I have to go here with this question. What are the costs looking like does it vary or is it pretty much the same across the board?

David: 14:28

Sp for rentals, it does vary based on the van so we do have one of our older style vans still running through the rest of this year. But we've we started moving towards everything is stand you can stand inside the van so that means that a taller van and so we do have you know ranges from 169 a night to 229 a night depending on which Van you select.

Brett: 14:53

And then that does vary I guess to answer a little bit more of that question that it does come down a little bit but If you have a longer trip so as COVID hit you know the vans just naturally worked out to be a the safest form of travel because you can basically quarantine as much as you want by you know getting your groceries delivered to your car, and then hitting the road, and then paying for your gas at a gas pump, that we had people go like get it all the way back to New York and Maine and Florida, Tennessee, Carolinas, because they couldn't fly back to see family or maybe they were already you know had a you know pre-existing condition of some sort, that would lend COVID to you know, just kind of be in you know a little bit harder on their system that renting a van just became a natural form of travel for a lot of people and you know getting around to be able to still see family and check in on people and you know, do what they had planned for so long that they got quarantined and trips got canceled that you know, we had a number of people that you know, they had trips going over overseas, you know, somewhere in Europe or, you know, you name it around the world, and vans landed themselves as far as the rental arm, or even purchases couple people purchase vans because they just saw that, you know, they have nowhere to go at a certain point when the government shutdowns happen or they just are trying to be safe by distancing themselves and being responsible.

Alicia Swamy: 16:25

My husband and I kind of did the whole camping trip from Oregon down here during like that timeframe. That was like the most popular form of travel during the pandemic was, you know, people in RVs going camping spots, being in nature and everything so I'm sure you guys got a lot of business during that time. I know that we're all thinking it. How do people take care of their bathroom needs when you have a van, because we know a lot of these vans don't have you know, like a nice bathroom in the shower.

David: 16:54

Sure, again, off grid is is the whole mantra with us, right? And even when you have typical Blackwater tanks with an RV, you have to have a dump site. It's not really an off So when the outside of the van is there like an outdoor shower grid system because you you do need to interact and you do need to, you know, dump your system. What we do is we use cassette toilets, it's really as simple as using it and dumping it when you need to, and you know, usually what people will do is they'll find facilities at the campsite or wherever, you know, they're camping, when they It is time to dump their toilet. It's a five gallon tank and it can just pour right into an actual plumbed toilet, say at an outdoor campsite so they can dump it there. Some people will responsibly dig a hole and they'll dump it that way. There's all sorts of ways people use the toilet, but, but real y it's it's more of an emergen y, middle of the night, the e's bears outside it's cold, I on't want to go outside, t pe of system. So the toilets is eally, it works but it's not y ur you know it's not your typ cal RV t type of thing already built on it?

Brett: 18:05

Yeah, so we have built a couple bands with showers indoors but even those end users that typically want the like a shower on the inside and like I said we've only done you know a couple of them. They're living out of the van full time but the honest truth is they have said that the use of the indoor shower kind of becomes the closet and a storage space. So, they use their outdoor shower at 90% of the time so the outdoor shower just comes out of the very back of the van hangs on one of the doors you can hang a shower curtain between the doors give yourself a little bit of privacy if you want or you know we get renters that come back who say I would take naked showers in the woods It was pretty awesome! You know everybody gets to kind of choose their own jam with that. So to answer your question yes there's a shower and it's also convenient out of the back of the van as well. You can hose your gear off if you get you know into some mud and you got things dirty or if you live in a van you have some pets just kind of creates a you know a quick you know, hose down station.

Alicia Swamy: 19:03

Fantastic. Thank you. So how many people can actually sleep in the van?

David: 19:08

I mean as many as you can fit in there, right? But no, we specifically have room for three sleepers. So we have two two in the bed and then we have a sofa seat that can convert to an extra sleep surface. And that's usually for you know, kids or an extra adults or what we've noticed is a lot of people will that'll be the dog bed, but yeah, it's it's three, three max.

Alicia Swamy: 19:31

So do you see a lot of families booking the vans or is it more like couples and single people?

David: 19:38

on the rental side it's really it's predominantly couples. You know, we do see some families but it has to be a small family. One one child, there's an opportunity to do on like a four seater but sleeping gets a little tight. So we always like to tell people three but we've we have had some people come by and we're like, well there's only room for three and there's five of you and we're like you guys okay with this situation and, and they are, and it's not something we recommend. We obviously want people safe going down the road, but we have gotten quite a share, you know, quite a share of families.

Brett: 20:10

Yeah. And that, I mean even at that, you know, if the parents are bringing kids, maybe they bring a little tent or we provide you know, we have a couple of tents for rent as well, that the not a couple of can sleep outside of the van. Another couple, you know, they kind of play roshambo for who gets to sleep in the van, I guess? Or who made the rental I paid for is gonna be the one that gets inside. Right?

Alicia Swamy: 20:31

Awesome. So I just got a little fur baby the other day, and I'm really excited. He's looking at me. Do you guys allow pets in your rental vans?

David: 20:42

With specific vans, The answer is yes. In the past, we had some some unfortunate issues with pets. It's not the pets fault, probably the owners fault. But yeah, we have been so we just started, we just started offering that in specificvans. Because we know some people just like to travel by themselves and, and their dog. And we're seeing a good response from that.

Brett: 21:04

As far as you know, this podcast goes, you know, we, Yeah, that's, that's very considerate, I really appreciate we've always wanted to be as fair as we possibly could to every single renter, so people had dog allergies, we did have, you know, basically, when we first started up, we had it where we hired an outside service to do the actual, like a full treatment other than to get it back to like hypo- allergenic state, which is expensive. And then we had one or two instances that happened to where we didn't really know how much of the dog was left after how much hair was left in the van. So we did kind that. Since you mentioned that cleaning service, can you maybe of cut up pet rentals for a little while. And then we brought that program back actually just recently with another cleaning service, because the last thing we would hate is to hear somebody going out in a van and then they have bad experience for thei confidence musing in their eye or watered up, you know. just walk us through what that looks like, and how they clean the vans, because one thing that we do with our patient population that we serve, and then we educate, they do have severe allergies, they have to be very careful with the chemicals and everything that they're around. So just curious as to exactly what that cleaning process looks like for your rental vans?

David: 22:20

Sure, it's, you know, really the combination of both bleach and sanitizer, the important thing is really getting the areas where everybody's mainly touching, right steering wheel, dash, those types of things.,

Brett: 22:33

The vents because that's blowing air on your face.

David: 22:35

Yeah, and so that's that's really you know, those are the hot spots, right? We're bacteria could start and so it's really just kind of sanitizing the van sanitizing on the surface using bleach and really getting it as you know, as fresh and as new looking as possible what how we finish every band that as well as we actually do an ozone generator. So we run the ozone machine inside the van as well, you know, kill any airborne particles, or anything else we might have missed. Once you do that, you got to air the van out for you know, at least a couple hours. But it's part of the process. And it's important and those are the ozone is something in particular, we added once COVID hit.

Alicia Swamy: 23:12

Yep, seems to be very popular method among the patient population that we serve is that they use ozone to clean their homes or their spaces, cars. So it's really interesting that you guys use that. And that's awesome. Okay, so now let's switch gears I want to talk about now I want to buy one of your vans, can you walk me through that process?

David: 23:34

So we have a lot of orders, we get people buying vans, every week, we've had a really actually busy month, which is surprising because we're on a year long wait. That is the basically the timeframe of when you would place an order to receiving the van. It's a conservative timeframe. But that's kind of what we're looking at as far as how many orders were able to complete based on what's in the queue. And kind of what's next available. How it works though is we have actually pretty cool too on our website where you know our websites, Bohovans.com. And you can actually walk through and build your van because not everybody wants specific things right, we've noticed that there's the setup that everybody really needs. And then there's the additions or upgrades that people may or may not want such as an awning or a hot water heater or you know, a built in stove or the list goes on there's racks and ladders and tires and wheels, it really kind of starts to get complex. And so when we first started it was kind of a challenge because everybody comes to you with their ideas. And you know, we actually had a slide out foosball table, which is just insane. It just kind of evolved from the very beginning where Oh, a project we're excited, we'll build it, let's build it exactly how you want to even if it's crazy, we would never duplicate it or want that type of Van for ourselves. And since we've got more orders, it's just starting to become Better to standardize. If you go to our website, you'll see kind of the standard package, and then the upgrades from there. We still do custom jobs, but it just varies. And the whole idea of standardization is to keep costs down. Because we never want to be that super expensive, you know, Earth Romer, Winnebago. Sorry, guys, if you guys are listening, we know some of those people. But you know, that's a different market than us, we want to be affordable and quality. So that's kind of how it would work is you'd fill out your band builder tool, you would get an immediate estimate. From there, we'd schedule a phone call, and then we would give you a formal estimate to sign. And then a 10% deposit would lock you into our schedule. As we lead up to the build. A few months out, we start talking about the fun stuff like you know, the custom finishes, flooring, color, tile, upholstery, so every van is different. Even if bands have more or less the same layout and features, everyone's unique to the client, which is something that the clients really enjoy, we have a lot of fun with. We don't want everyone to look the same. Throughout that two month mark, we pick all those choices, we're ready to get going. Ultimately, while that's going on, we talked to our clients about how to get a van right because there's a process to that as well. We have a great partner here locally in Scottsdale, Chapman Dodge, what's really cool is that they allow clients to purchase the van and there's no upselling there's no any of that it's like this is the van we need. Ultimately, this is the price and if you want to order one you should because you know we're going to be building it and and ultimately, it's cool because we have clients from all over the country. And if they order a van and there Portland, Chapman will hold the van until it's ready to be built and we actually just expanded so we're actually holding vans as well. So even if you're waiting six months for the build to start and your van arrives we can we can hold it so you don't have to pay for storage or or drive around an empty van waiting for it to be built. So we make it really easy on the on the client and the feedbacks been great. But once we start you know it's it's we finalize everything we're you know, all of a sudden, we're laying flooring and insulation and framing everything. And we send pictures we keep up with the client during this process because they love to see kind of the home makeover before and after pictures. And so they get a kick out of that and then most people will actually fly into Phoenix to pick up, because the way we designed the vans is, you can basically pick up your band, you know, bring your suitcase of clothes, go grab some groceries and everything's ready to go. You don't have to stop at Target to buy this and that right? curtains are hung beddings washed and dressed everything's good so most people are super excited to pick up because not only they have their their van, but they're starting epic trip home.

Brett: 27:34

Right? Even that like we're at customers will ship boxes to us. And so they'll you know, we'll see Amazon boxes showing up from different clients and put it in their bins and everything that you know, maybe they have particular pots and pans or cutlery that they want to use. Yes, send it over to us and we'll have it ready and waiting for you when you come to pick your build up. So if you're on like a Some people go on four and five week trips automatically when they're starting to head home. So they can just have the van turnkey, that's kind of you know, what we'd like to offer to people is you know, along with making the van feel like your own where you get to choose your backsplash color flooring and your your linens and everything like that, that feels like you're walking into your house, you're also using the utensils that you want as well.

Alicia Swamy: 28:15

That's great. I really like that that level of customization, you know, we're kind of in that zone right now in the world where it's like everything is customized to a particular person or personalized. So I do like that touch and that's really, really great that you guys offer that. Now, I do have a question about the interior say that, you know, I'm a little weary of wood. Are there other materials that can be used on the inside to build out the band instead of wood? I think I think I seem like cedar on the inside. Please don't quote me. I'm not sure but maybe you can just clarify that for me.

David: 28:51

Yeah, so since the very beginning, we standardized with red cedar, and the red cedar has just kind of a gambit of benefits to it. It's very good for thermal expansion and contraction. I mean it's used in outdoor applications, indoor applications, saunas, it's kind of a natural bug deterrent

Brett: 29:11

Smells good,

David: 29:12

Does smell great. And you know along with that we are using hemp wool for our installation that is actually something that actually lends itself to where we're at right now is that it's helping out with like the mitigation of any kind of mold growth or anything like that, if there is moisture that gets back behind the walls it doesn't you know really sit and absorb it you know it's actually you know, it contains no vocs or biodegradable you know components to it. So it just you know, it lends itself to be a very hardy product that you know, would help abade any mold growth or you know, any kind of fungi or anything like that.

Brett: 29:54

I'm curiously sure what what's your apprehension with wood is you guys are the mold experts. We have never encountered any any mold and from our research on red cedar is great because it actually grows in wet climates. And it's actually from what we know is a very good way to mitigate any sort of build up.

Alicia Swamy: 30:13

I'll route that question to Eric or Kealy, because they're, they're more of the building experts

Erik Johnson: 30:18

Well, typically mold doesn't cause much of a problem, it's less, it's starting to decompose. So mold, it's in plain sight, typically, it's not a problem for us. But if you have some kind of fairly low quality wood, that's up against a metal exterior surface, that'll create a lot of condensation, we can get mold growth way back in a corner somewhere where it's difficult to get to. And that tends to drive us nuts. But I think that for the most part, if you have a thermal gap, or the wood isn't physically in contact with any metal surface, somehow held off by brackets, or some insulation, we really don't have a problem with wood.

David: 31:05

That's good to know. Because that's our experience, too. With all these vans on the road, we've we've had one woman, she got hit on the side of her van, and she was fine. But the van was basically dented across the whole side. And she had her van, I think, almost two years and she brought it to us. And we basically had to take down the entire wall.

Brett: 31:26

Driver side wall, the inside of the van. Yeah, and

David: 31:29

so you know, we pull it all apart. And we were you know, maybe one of the first times we had done that. And we as we expected there was zero build up or growth, you know, we do, again, use the insulation Brett was referring to, which breathes and allows, I think that barrier you're talking about Eric to prevent any sort of build up. So you know, it's one of those things where everyone's always I mean, you guys are very conscious of it, you know, we get clients asking about it as well. We're very conscious of it. And that's why we've we've always used a high quality, you know, red cedar versus maybe a cheaper pine or something along those lines. But we we are a workshop. That's that's what we do. And so, Alicia, if you're asking me about different materials at this time, it's wood. But not to say that I won't change.

Brett: 32:16

Yes, no, exactly. And actually, to, you know, elaborate. And Erik, thank you for, you know, kind of given us some, you know, school on where the the growth and issues can present itself. Part of the being as podcast today was we forever kind of want to put ourselves as you know, students to making the best product in the safest product possible. So you know, even if we found something like, hey, maybe we could do that better. Or maybe we're not even doing that correctly. That's, you know, part of the reason of us wanting to be on this podcast. So we really appreciate you guys having us here.

Alicia Swamy: 32:47

Absolutely, Erik has a lot of experience tearing apart and rebuilding his mobile unit. So he definitely is one to talk to in regards to building a mobile unit with longevity, that is going to be good for someone who has any type of sensitivities. Because as you know, we're going through climate change. Sadly, we're seeing a lot of cities going under water. And if all these cities are going underwater, we understand the building materials that are being used are prone to mold, I definitely see a business like yours growing and expanding more than ever, because people will be driven out of their homes because the indoor air quality and just the quality of the health factor, I would have to say of their homes becomes diminished. And I think there's a lot of people that are sick, they don't understand that air quality is a big, big contributor and environmental exposures are a huge contributor to your health, we kind of get stuck in this focus where it's like oh, whatever you eat, or if you're exercising or not. And that is the major determinant. Well, I have a master's in nutrition, none of that saved me from the bad air quality of my home and the environmental exposures that I was getting. So I foresee not a great future with you know, climate change and all that. So your business is really going to kind of help these people that are suffering in their homes and provide them an alternative way of living. And it's also a more minimalistic style of living right? If you're just in your van you have what you need, you can move as the climate is changing. If there's a hurricane coming, you get in that van and you're out you know, you don't have to worry about your home being underwater, your insurance fighting you to fix that. And so you guys are definitely offering a very, very good product to the market, a growing market. Now I did want to ask about, since we are on the note of climate change, how does the vans hold up when it's really hot and how do they hold up when it's really cold.

Brett: 34:48

So that kind of goes back to the insulation that we're using. We had used denim insulation for louhi you know, Now I was browsing your website, and you guys have like a secret we first started off with a you know our very early early vans]s, you know, just regular fibers. That's insulation, we knew that that wasn't the route that we wanted to go. One was selfishly, we didn't want to work with it too much, you know, it's got in your hands. And you know, you don't want to breathe in that stuff, even if you're wearing masks. So we went to denim insulation, that worked for a little while, we thought it was a good product. But when we came across the hempwool, that actually provided for a better insulation and sound barrier, as well, as you know, having some better properties as far as you literally just, they say they don't recommend it. But at the same time, it's not a very caustic material that you don't have to really wear a mask, and you can just use it with your bare hands and he kind of the sauce, so it makes it a little bit easier. So that helps when it's really hot out to kind of create that thermal barrier to kind of get the metal away from the inside of the wood, we do put AC units on some of the bands when they're requested by the customers. But that's a little bit of an expensive option. So we understand that. But we always have our you know, vent fans that help out quite a bit. And a lot of customers that have vans, you know, especially he people that are living out f them say that, you know, hey'll never live in a climate older than 40 degrees, and hey'll never live hotter the 9 degrees. And it's interesting t kind of track those storie because they literally do thi zigzag back and forth across th country as the seasons go on But other people are avi skiers, and they want to get u and they love the cold weather And we also have heaters that w provide in our packages as well They're super efficient, the run off of a 12 volt system tha also uses the fuel from th vehicle itself, but very lo amounts of fuel as far a consumption goes. And so thos kind of two combos, option for C,option for heat, but along wi h the most important thing f insulating the van properly s how we combat that, you kno, combat the ele map. And I was just curious, can you tell us what's on that secret map that is password protected? No.

David: 37:06

No, certainly, you know, it's it's a combination of spots that we've personally discovered. And that's been discovered from all of our renters, because they get a kick out of it, they'll fly in from Chicago, and they'll not know where to go. And what's cool about the vans is you can basically camp anywhere, right? As long as there's no 'no camping,' signs. So they, they'll draw on that they'll use that. And they'll be like, hey, actually, there's a spot just down the street from there that you guys had, it's actually better. It's kind of this collaboration between everybody. And we've had, I think over 600 rental trips now. And so that's a lot of content. And so if you if you were to go look at that, and we can certainly share that with you. It's on their campsite, even waterfall hikes, we have a bunch of different categories of things to see not just camping, people like it gives them insider information on kind of where to go. Because that's always the biggest question people ask when they run, where do I go? Right? Some people have their itinerary set. And I always just tell people, you know, Brett too, we just say, plan, maybe one or two things you want to see. But then just leave it open. And that's part of the fun if you see or, you know, a road with a sign that says, you know, pink sand dunes down this way, and you weren't expecting to see it, go check it out, right? There's, there's no reason not to. So the Wayfinding experience is really cool. And that's really kind of what the map has become as is all the research done with the Wayfinding all in one place.

Alicia Swamy: 38:35

That's awesome. So do you guys have like a like a community chat room or like a Facebook group or kind of all your boho purchasers and renters are able to communicate with each other to kind of bounce off ideas and everything

David: 38:49

We do in the Facebook group. I don't know how people use it yet. I think it's probably, you know, something that we could put more time into, but we certainly we certainly feel like we have a community because we do have people that have been on the road every time they come by Phoenix they swing by and they're like well your shop got bigger oh whoa, you guys have more employees. And it's it's kind of cool because they have directly contributed to that growth. And they they feel it, they feel a part of the family and we always tell people that you know, you're part of the family and so we have we communicate with a lot of clients. And in the beginning it was we get a text message after they leave like there's something wrong right? That's your natural inclination. But I'm very, very, very rarely Is there a technical question of you know, it's more, "Hey, look at this cool picture I took, Can you share it on your social media?" and it's really cool because it makes my job easier because I run our social accounts. And I don't have to go out and get content myself. It's been generated by by everybody else. And it's it's unique, really, and if there's meaning to it, because this might be their first time ever seen the Grand Canyon, and if you've never been, you should go but if you have gone you probably remember the first time you saw it, because it's just one of those things that's you know, you don't forget. But yeah, you know, the community I think is something that we're working on advancing with our business right now, we did just launch an online store for merchandise, and that's working with different eight different charities and eight different artists from around the world. And if you purchase for that, right now, the first four months, we're running it 100% of profits are going to charity. So that's really cool. People have gotten a kick out of that, because, again, they have their van, they want a shirt, some people can't afford a van yet, maybe they rent but they still want a shirt. And so it's kind of cool, because community is really kind of what this industry needs. I'm sure you guys feel it to, you know, Erik, I'm sure it's nice to be out by yourself sometimes out in the woods. But I think more and more people are wanting to meet other people with the same lifestyle. And if there could be a meetup that they'd certainly be about it. Because you know, a lot of these people are just looking for things to do. Maybe they're retired, and they're just hanging out and they want, they want to meet like minded people. And so that's something that we've been actually working on, you know, we we haven't announced anything yet, but we're working on how to build a community even further.

Alicia Swamy: 41:06

Fantastic. I definitely could send you some Facebook groups that you can be a part of just looking at the conversations that go on for people who we call them mold avoiders. Erik is the the OG mold avoider, I guess you can say, basically, people are healing themselves just going out into nature and spending extended times in nature. And I don't think people understand the power of that, not having to go to a doctor and take a bunch of pharmaceuticals, it's simply getting into a clean van, driving out to the redwood forest and just spending time in there, breathing the fresh air, it helps heal me, it helps heal Erik, and there is a huge group of people that are interested that aren't sure they don't know what vehicle to get. But they're all having these conversations on Facebook. And I mean, these groups are massive, they're like 10k, 20k, 30k people. So I'm going to go ahead and send that over to you after the show. So that way you guys can join and kind of see the conversation that people are having people that are chemically sensitive or mold sensitive. There are a lot of conversations about people having to build out their own living situation, their own vans, because they what they're finding on the market isn't exactly eco friendly. And it sounds like you guys are and you're you're very open to learning and understanding, you know how to best serve the community. So definitely would love to hook you guys up with that just to see maybe you can find some ideas to tweak your vans in a different way or making more sustainable long term. I think what you're doing is absolutely amazing. And I am so happy that you decided to join us today because I definitely, I know ,you'll be having a lot of phone calls from our people asking about renting a van or buying a van. Because this seems to be more of a popular thing these days, not just for people who are actually forced to do it, because their environments are so toxic, they can't stand them. But also because people want to be more minimalistic. They want to be mobile, they want to go to Arizona in the winter and Montana in the summer. They're not content with just staying in one little home for 30 years. So you're definitely marketing to an expanding market right now. And again, I thank you for coming on the show.

David: 43:26

Yeah, Alicia, I just want to say if you send us a Facebook group, we'll send you the secret map password, how's that sound?

Alicia Swamy: 43:32

Oh, perfect.

David: 43:35

Like it is very relevant to you. Because the map does kind of it's mainly Arizona, but there's some California and Colorado,

Brett: 43:44

We kind of get people that you know, come through and you know, they want to see the shop and some of the shop, we have to keep off limits, you know, insurance purposes, that's really basically it. But, you know, a lot of ours, you know, we're not trying to hide anything, you know, we actually promote our Instagram and a lot of the posts that we do that, you know, we want people to be able to, if you can't afford them, or you just want to look at the beautiful pictures that David produces, or you know, kind of how the work comes along. We want to help people to do things safely do things correctly, save them money, because, you know, we're, you know, the building, you know, camper vans and the RV that's been around, you know, since the you know, 40s and 50s. Right? So for us to be able to help people in this growing market, you know, as you're talking about, we get people that stop by all the time and ask us you know, they're building their own van they asked maybe if we can help them with part of the van build and stuff like that. Unfortunately, we can't help with certain aspects of their builds. But we will kind of let them know hey, here's a material that we're using here is kind of where we get it or you know, x, y z questions to help them along in their build process. Because you know, we're very fortunate in the growth of our company, we kind of want to pay it forward to the people that are doing it on their own. Maybe they can't afford their own stuff like David was saying, but you know if we can help them To save money, and that would allow them for better upgrade down the road because they haven't made a mistake on any number of aspects of the build that they have to redo to three times. You know, we're all for that always.

Kealy Severson: 45:12

One question that I had for both of you, David and Brett, that was inspired by listening to you speak about, you know, wanting to maybe learn from our group. Are there any questions that you have for us?

Unknown: 45:26

Well, it's funny because we were, we were sitting on this podcast for and I loved each other, we're like, we don't really know too much about mold. We know how it pertains to our products, right? But you guys are experts, and we weren't sure how this was gonna go on. And I think I think it's going great. But um, you know, I would just say, ultimately, can you still get infected? If you don't see it? That's the question I had, because we, you know, we've had some people come in and mentioned that sometimes they don't even know where it's coming from. I'm curious if you guys have any insight on that?

Kealy Severson: 45:56

Oh, yes, definitely. So that's a multi layered question. Most mold growth actually is not in a visible location. For example, a roof leak that leads to dampness inside of a wall and so there's mold growth, and then the mold can release mycotoxins that people can inhale and they can affect their health. So this is like one of the big problems that Alicia just kind of touched on when she mentioned that there are so many people who are sick that don't even know that it's because their basements are damp, or because they didn't really fully repair that chimney leak. And so the other part of that would be common industry failures, if you're being polite or scams if you're not being polite in terms of people finding answers with Mold Testing. Some testing companies will do an airtight test, but they won't find the source some company as well swab some dust, but they're not doing like a visual dampness, inspection or full assessment of the whole home to see where issues can be. And so, there's also Erik's theory, that really complicates things that basically says that environmental pollution can make microbes behave more aggressively. So there can be areas that are bad. And that's actually something that's happening to me right now. So I'm in I'm in a nice home with no mold growth. But like my sewer system, I've been made so vulnerable from environmental exposures that made me sick that now I am reacting to something in my, I think in my water. These are some of the overarching environmental problems that once people have become really sick, it's a concern for them. And so the avoidance part is really recognizing the possible things that could be making you sick, and how you feel around them, and then experimenting with not being around them. And that's kind of where the mobile units come through, especially like Erik really has set this precedent. I mean, he's like, the Wise One, he was the first one to kind of make an environmental decontamination unit so that he could pull himself out of different exposures and really control his environment, what came in to, like, verify what he was reacting to, but this is who we work with the environmental sensitive, who can't really see what they're reacting to, you know, and unfortunately, a lot of these people will get like misdiagnosed as psyche cases or fibro or, you know, some just some name to label the symptoms that doesn't explain what happened to make them sick.

David: 48:33

Sure, sure. Well,thanks for that answer. I that's interesting. You mentioned that because you know, with what we do, it's you know, you want to make sure you have airflow and proper ventilation and anywhere that there could be water, you know, because, you know, I would imagine just being a newbie at this is that water and lack of airflow are probably the big culprits, moisture. But now that you're mentioning that there's environmental events, such as, you know, air quality, water, I'm sure there's certain vegetables, you guys avoid certain farms, you guys avoid buying from things like that, because it could be in your food, it could be on your lettuce, right? It's it's eye opening, so thank you.

Erik Johnson: 49:10

But years ago, I became so hypersensitive to the black mold, Stachybotrys, that, it was very confusing to me, because not only was I reacting to my house, but to various possessions, and I couldn't get away from this stuff. And when I got a camper and tried to escape, it seemed like it was chasing me everywhere. And I became so desperate that I built an experimental mobile environmental control unit, the camper that had no wood whatsoever, just strictly metal and styrofoam. And this was like a testbed. I wanted to find out how I could escape this, what exactly was going on? And I went kind of overkill, because I don't really think that wood is all that bad. And if I were put back in this circumstance now, I think if I had a conventional camper, And something that had a lot of wood in it, as long as I kept it dry, you know, maintained properly, I'd be able to do okay. But I'm sure you're going to run into people, you're saying, well, we want to avoid any wood, no wood whatsoever. And I've backed off considerably from that. My testing all the experience that I've got says, No, I can have wood in my environment, I just can't allow it to get damp all the time and start to grow anymore.

David: 50:26

Thanks for clarifying that because, you know, we're a ood shop and I was about to end Alicia a message, "maybe we don't go live with this podcast." But you know, it's it's good and that's why a lot f reason why we put the showers utside, I don't think people ealize no matter what you do, f you have an indoor shower, here's going to be moisture, ou can have fans, you can have ll the doors open, there's till going to be moisture, you ake it, you take a shower at ome, you see how wet the floor ets, right. Sometimes it's navoidable. Thanks for larifying that, Erik. I think e do our best to make sure that here is no moisture build up at ll, from what we've seen in alking to clients who've been n the road for for a couple of ears now. It's working eautifully.

Brett: 51:04

Yeah. And Kealy, I think you're live in Wisconsin right now.

Kealy Severson: 51:08

I do, Yes.

Brett: 51:09

Yeah. So I mean, Dave, and I, you know, born and raised, and, you know, as well as many people back in the Midwest, and in the, you know, the damper climates that my basement when I first bought a house, I mean, it was extremely damp. And, you know, there's a pretty hefty bill for all new gutters around the house regrading the house to get the water away from it. And it took, honestly about a year for that basement to dry out with dehumidifiers and everything else. So I guess, for whatever reason, mold first doesn't doesn't look pretty, right? And then, you know, just you kind of look at it and you think to yourself, well, is that you know, that that can't be healthy. You know, if that's some kind of a fungus growing there, that probably where it shouldn't be. And not all fungi are bad, you know. So that's, you know, that go too far on that direction. But, you know, as far as mold goes, I mean, it's kind of been a, you know, adherence of issues in damper climates, especially pertaining to black mold. That's like a big one. I remember back from Wisconsin people, you know, getting black mold mitigation. I mean, that's, you know, a number of companies are there just for that purpose alone?

Kealy Severson: 52:15

Yeah, everyone that I know, almost with a basement has dampness and water issues. When I grew up in a house with a wet basement, and I didn't, it was so common until you get sick, and then you realize, hey, this, I shouldn't be exposed to this.

David: 52:29

Yeah, yeah. Well come to Arizona, there's no basements here.

Kealy Severson: 52:33

Well, Alicia is in the process of buying some land. So I just might

Brett: 52:39

Good, good.

David: 52:40

Very cool.

Brett: 52:41

Erik, kind of get into what you were talking about. I don't know how many RV projects or camper projects you've worked on. But as you you may know, that you probably could teach us maybe some of the skills but proper adhesion of when we're mounting things to the outside of the bands. I mean, we we take tremendous care in making sure that those are long lasting, you know, installs that you know, are properly sealed, nothing's permanent. You know, as far as sealants, and stuff like that, and you know, after five or 10 years, especially in Arizona heat, you got to replace that stuff, but that's something that we take definitely concern and when it comes to cutting holes in the pants, to be honest, and you know, starting to install components,

Erik Johnson: 53:25

Yeah, and as you point out, high quality wood is so mold resistant, that it's really not a problem, even if it is damp all the time. It's the really cheap one, the stuff that's decomposing the particle board, you know, the chipboard, that stuff is a problem, but planking and you know, really good quality wood is never been a problem for me.

David: 53:47

Good.

Brett: 53:47

That really is. Yeah,

David: 53:49

that's great to hear. You know, if there's any vindication to come for this podcast, it's you know that that statement right there because when people ask us about our building materials, we get to tell them everything's hardwood, very high quality red cedar people can get it painted or not painted, but starting with those base solid components, I guess, you know, the only way to put it is something that we've had here the company to from the beginning, not cutting corners, but you said with with the particle boards, you know, with the other cheap kind of glue on laminate stuff that's just masking something that isn't really high quality underneath it.

Alicia Swamy: 54:24

Yeah, that's the problem with buildings these days. I mean, our buildings are just as processed as our food, you know. So if you have process buildings, it is going to of course affect your health. And I mean, we've had microbiologists doctors, we've had so many experts. We even have Ted Nugent on the show the other day. You know, it's like we need to build our homes with better materials. I mean, if we were we were building with all this wonderful hardwood or type of cedar that you guys are using. I don't think that people would be getting us sick or their homes would be just disintegrating as quick Because even the new builds these days, it's all just built with cheap materials that just gets moldy really quickly and needs to be fixed all the time. And so there's just a major, major problem. I mean, I highly encourage you just to simply type in mold and look in Google News. And you'll just see just stories, from schools, to dorm rooms, to public housing to military housing, this is a major, major problem that is being covered up by the insurance companies because they don't have the money to fork out to pay for all this stuff. So yeah, we're dealing with some serious stuff here, and people are getting very, very sick. And the problem with mold exposure is that it can manifest so differently in different people, one person can get cancer, another person can like us, we become sensitive to where we will walk into a building, and we can feel the mold right away, and we can feel our heart going off or head swelling, and we know that we have to leave right away. And so we're seeing this growing subset of the population becoming extremely sensitive and having these allergies and so it's like, we kind of have to switch things up here. And we need to start building with quality. Because, you know, if we don't, then more people are just going to be becoming sick. And we're seeing our healthcare system crumble before our eyes with COVID. Why don't we start with health care in the home or in a place that we're living? You know what I mean, we actually had some Adobe builders on the other day, and that was one of our episodes, housing is healthcare. Because it really does start in the home. I mean, you're breathing 2000 gallons of air per day, you know, you don't have control over that you have to breathe, you know, if you can control keeping the Snickers bar out of your mouth, but not the air in your home, and what you really were this niche, trying to bring that awareness because it's being so like people are just trying to squash it, bureaucracies are trying to squash it and make it seem like it's not a big problem. There are some bleach on the mold, and you're okay, no, it, it is a big problem. And you can just look to the military just to see how big of a problem it is. Yeah. And again, thank you guys for coming on board. I hope that we can continue this just as partnership beyond this conversation. Do you want to ask us any questions or ask Erik about building, you know, the mobile unit, how to make it more feasible for people who have allergies or who have sensitivities. He's definitely the guy to help you out. You know, we're here to support your business because again, the way that you're building and what you're doing is definitely very important for the population that we're serving.

Brett: 57:41

thank you very much.

David: 57:42

Thanks for having us. Yeah.

Alicia Swamy: 57:43

Where can our listeners find you?

David: 57:46

So website is bohovans.com, Boho Vans on Instagram. Boho Vans on Twitter.

Alicia Swamy: 57:53

Oh it's boho.life, right? I like that

David: 57:57

Yea that'll get yo there too. There's a Yeah, nice We like to make it easy So you can certainly get ther either way bohovans.com, boho life, it'll take you to the right spot. Than

Kealy Severson: 58:07

And I love Love, love the smell of red cedar wood. It's one of my favorite smells to go somewhere and mell that wood. And I know t at it has antifungal propert es. And I know that the average erson who thinks like all wood has to be eliminated because th y've been mold injured kind of gets into that panic mindse. But red cedar wood is Erik ha actually taught me this as student, even if it was it wo ld happen to grow fungi hat fungi actually wouldn't roduce as dangerous of mycotoxin as fungi that's growing o a lesser board, like the parti le board. And so I just wanted o clarify that one last time because I don't want an one to be hesitant. Some people are like, overly freaking out a out like, all carpet, or all f this or all of that. And Ced rwood was amazing. And thank y u guys so much for your t

Brett: 58:54

Yeah, thanks, guys. We learned a lot.

David: 58:56

Yeah. So again, thanks, you know, for everybody kind of giving the, you know, validation, in Erik to kind of fill us in that, you know, it's, we've, we came out of this, you know, wanting to learn something, and you know, make a safe product for everyone. And, you know, as Alicia was alluding to a lot of things right now, or how do we build it cheaper? How do we build it faster? How do we build more of it, our company, you know, we, honestly, we do want to build faster, we do want to build more product, but it's never gonna come at the sacrifice of a quality or a safety standard. So to hear that a lot of the components that we're actually using right now even down to just you know, the installation is, you know, just keeping the high quality stuff is actually doing a tremendous service to our clients, which we hoped it would. And so it's very good to hear the validation of that.

Kealy Severson: 59:45

Yeah, it's clear, you're a company with integrity, with mindfulness towards the population that you serve. It's very, very clear to us. Thank you.

Brett: 59:53

Thank you very much you guys as well.

Alicia Swamy: 59:54

Thank you everyone for joining us today. We had David and Brett on the show to talk about their vans from boho vans it is an awesome business that is just booming and taking off and we definitely definitely encourage a lot of our audience members who are dealing with mold in their homes and are looking for avoidance ideas or what to do check out boho vans you can rent and you can buy their vans if you'd like all their vans are made with very, very high quality material, material that you should not worry about it molding or going bad. Again, thank you everyone for joining us today. please like share comment on the content. Also subscribe to our podcast we are on all podcasting channels also keep us rolling by contributing to our GoFundMe and patreon pages. Thank you so much, everyone. We'll see you next time.