Episode 51 - Seeking Restitution From A Mold Injury with Litigator Kristina Baehr

Kristina Baehr is a national trial lawyer and founder of Just Well Law, a firm that helps families in crisis. She built the personal injury firm she couldn't find for her own family. As a high profile, high stakes litigator, Kristina led back-to-back trial teams to victories before the International Trade Commission, ultimately leading to nine-figure royalties. She was honored by her peers as a Texas Rising Star from 2015-2019. Health and wellness require financial resources and she is relentless in pursuing the maximum recovery for her clients. 

In this episode,  Kristina shares her mold story and how it transformed her life into becoming a toxic tort litigator.  If you or someone you know has been injured by mold and are considering pursuing a case, please email Kristina and her team at recover@well.law.  

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Transcript

Kealy Severson: 0:06

Welcome to the Exposing Mold podcast, my name is Kealy Severson and I am here with my co-hosts, Erik Johnson and Alicia Swamy. Today we are interviewing attorney Kristina Baehr. Kristina, welcome.

Kristina Baehr: 1:36

Thank you, I'm so glad to be here. I was just saying that I've been following y'all for a long time, and as I was looking for resources for my own family, and also building our cases, you were right up there and the experts that you've had on the podcast and the resources you pointed to on Instagram. I'm a big fan. So I'm really honored to be here.

Kealy Severson: 1:57

For those who aren't familiar, Kristina was recently featured on a news clip where they did a summary of your story. Kristina, would you mind sharing that summary for us?

Kristina Baehr: 2:08

Sure. So a little over a year ago, I finally got a mycotoxin test back for my own health. I had been sick for a long time, and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me, like so many of your listeners and viewers, I'm sure. And I finally went to this concierge practice that gave me a mycotoxin test, and my scores were through the roof. And I started reading about it. And I just thought, oh, man, this is what's been happening with my family. And so you know, what do you do, right? I started Googling, trying to figure out all the information that I can. I hire a mold inspector, the first one took an air sample in the middle of the room and looked around the house and said, looks pretty good to me. Good construction, looks like a nice house, like you're probably not exposed here. And by the grace of God, this other inspector named Tim Taylor happened to not get my voicemail canceling his appointment, and he showed up and I, you know, let him do a second inspection because I didn't want to ruin his day. And he said telling you about your family. And I think that that's just how every mold inspection should begin. Right? How rare is that? But anyway, he said, tell me about your family, and I told them about my daughter who had been having really extreme mood swings. And he took a sample right by her wall because he said, it often is found in the walls of the kids who are most affected. And he found Stachybotrys and opened up the wall and then the rest is history. That was just the tip of the iceberg.

Alicia Swamy: 3:47

Wow, that's pretty intense. And I'm just really curious because you said you had gotten a mycotoxin test and you were testing your home. Did the samples match from your urine test to what was found in your home?

Kristina Baehr: 4:01

Yes, ours did. Ours did. You know, behind her wall was Stachybotrys. But then we found enormous amounts of Chaetomium in our kitchen, and then we found Aspergillus and other mycotoxins and other molds and mycotoxins in our HVAC. And so in this house, I like to say it was where our babies bathed. We had a huge swath under their bathtub. It's where they slept. It's where we ate and it was the air we breathed. I mean, it was everywhere.

Alicia Swamy: 4:40

Sounds like you were being exposed to a lot of these Trichothecene producing mycotoxins, which we know are extremely, extremely dangerous and actually usually do not show up on test. So the fact that they even showed up is a major major red flag. And so you had talked about your daughter and she was having mood swings. Were there other steps symptoms that you guys were were dealing with? Or was it only just you and your daughter? Or maybe you could just talk about that.

Kristina Baehr: 5:07

Yeah, so you start peeling back the layers, right? I mean, I had had migraines for years, years for I should say years prior, I'd had these migraines that wouldn't go away. And then I had night sweats and just extreme exhaustion, I felt like I'd been hit by a truck. I mean, I was I was telling people and telling doctors that I felt drunk in the middle of the day, I couldn't think straight or see straight. And of course, everybody tells you that it's just stress, right? I mean, if you just reduce stress in your life, right, and at the time, I was working at a big law firm and managing really big, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars worth of cases, and they thought it was the stress. And so I actually quit that job thinking that it was the stress. And I mean, you know, you quit the job, you start exercising, you start eating better, I eliminated gluten, I eliminated dairy, like I'm just, you know, on a quest for health, because I knew that if I'm healthy, I'm going to be a better mom and I knew something was wrong with me. And the problem was I was doing all of that, and I wasn't getting better. And that's when I found this concierge practice that gave me the mycotoxin test. So then I'm starting to think about the rest of my family. And my son, Scott, while we were home, during the quarantine, you know, when schools were shut down, he had started regressing his developmental milestones, and he was running into walls. And so we had big bruises all over his forehead, and he was melting down for an hour a day. And I had started working at home at that time, like the rest of America and I'm just hearing these screams from downstairs, I'm like, What is going on? You know, and, and then my, my older daughter having these extreme mood swings, extreme anxiety. She's having her own, like health issues. And so I just got everybody into therapy. I mean, not knowing, right, so my son's doing speech therapy, physical therapy, occupational therapy. I'm taking time out to do therapy with him every single day. And then my daughter, I get her into therapy. So she's in occupational therapy, then they learned she had visual vision processing disorder. So she's getting vision therapy, right? I'm going to, Evan and I are going to a family therapist to work on parenting that in the circumstances, because the kids are kind of going insane, right. But we don't know that there is a root cause to all of it. So once I started reading about mycotoxins, I was like, Oh, this is what's been going on to our family. And no wonder it all lined up, right? All those symptoms start getting worse and worse and worse, when we were shut in to a toxic home. And so that's, you know, we got to when we got the high scores from our house, I was like, we gotta get out of here. And so we packed four laundry baskets and a friend thankfully gave us their house that she wasn't using. And not everybody has that. We were so so so blessed because at first you think Where are you going to go? I mean, have you met my children? Like they're insane, right? They're like, they're, they're insane. They're insane. I can't just go move with my four kids somewhere. And the mold affects your brain, you can't make decisions and but a friend gave us her house and, and we left and we haven't been back.

Alicia Swamy: 8:48

Wow, just you telling your story, I could, I could just feel it. You know, it's just like shaking me to the core because your story is like so many others.

Kristina Baehr: 8:58

Yes. I mean, I am not alone. I feel like it's silly for me to even say it out loud because it's what every one of you have been through yourselves. It's what your listeners and viewers have have been through. You're living it right now. So many of you and have been living it for years, you know? And and when I first moved out, I thought, we're out. And we're better. It's going to be better. And I think like so many others, we learned that that's only the beginning because we moved into a brand new rental, and that rental developed its own problem. And we're now so much more sensitized to it that we got sick again. And I took my whole family up to upstate New York, and that was last summer and that's when I started really diving into the research and the science and found you and found some community amongst people who other other families who have been there right because you feel so alone. And you, and you also think it's a one time thing, and then it's over. And then you learn that it's a lifelong journey.

Alicia Swamy: 10:08

Absolutely, that's why we started Exposing Mold. You know, initially it was just to kind of get the word out there and get the information out there. But now it's like, we're taking it to a whole new level, we're like you, Kristina, we're hypersensitive. And it's not just enough to get out. There are specific steps and strategies you have to implement in order to make sure that you're actually going to be healing and not perpetuating your illness and getting worse through hypersensitivities. So that's why we had launched recently an educational group to provide that information to anyone who's interested, anyone who's been injured, but I really want to shift gears here and I want to talk about you. You are your big time girl.

Kristina Baehr: 10:53

Overnight, I don't know. It's just like, I had no idea that it was going to blow up the way that it that it did when I just was starting a little law firm with one paralegal, you know, I mean, I've had hundreds of calls.

Alicia Swamy: 11:09

Yeah, going from a national trial lawyer, and, you know, to obtaining these major royalties in your cases, to now, this opportunity has just sprung from this tragic story that, you know, you've experienced and many others have experienced, and, like, we've been looking for you, you know, you're like, you're, you're on the corner of Robert McKee. You know, we had Robert McKee on earlier. Yes. I mean, his story was so amazing and he's doing great work for people who have been molded injured. But to see like more litigators like you popping up and really, like committed and devoted to helping because you know, what you went through, and so many people are currently going through it, and they don't know what to do because, you know, no one else knows what to do, and so the more we are like today, talking about our stories, and talking about our tragedies, turned opportunities, it's so important, you know, that we do our best to help others. And thank you so much for being awesome and maybe you could talk about the law firm that you built Just Well Law and what's been going on so far.

Kristina Baehr: 12:16

You know, you said, I wish, there were more of you. I mean, I wish that there was one of me when I was really hurting. And I mean, not that we're not hurting now, like we're still very much in the midst of it, and we'll be it's a it's gonna be a journey for everybody. But I could not get another plaintiff's lawyer to take my call. And the only other lawyer in this area, who does mold work handles wrongful death claims. That is insane. You have to die to get representation? I mean, literally, like you have to die to get representation? He would not take my call, wouldn't even return my voicemail, or my email. And it's like, I'm another lawyer, wouldn't you just spend 15 minutes with me talking to me about my case, and just helping me figure out how to do this? So I hired a great friend an hourly lawyer, and, and then I started, you know, doing the research and the science myself. And finally, of course, when you get plugged into community, you learn that there are others out there. And Karen Farris in Texas is a wonderful litigator, nd then I found Bob McKee, and found his direct email on a pleading, you know, because I needed to get past the staff, right, like I needed to get directly to the lawyer. And he started just consulting on my case for free, nd I would, I would call and he'd be like, how's my favorite Texan? You know, and then he would just advise me about you shoot the shit about all the things in a mold law case. And I ended up hiring him for my case, to be co counsel with the other team that I had, that I had built. And, and he's just, he's just magical, and we're working together now because I was in Florida working on my own case, when this story came out, and he and I were like, I was getting an inquiry on my website every three minutes. And we thought we need to work together and figure out how we can help more people. But I have built the law firm that I couldn't find, I want to be the lawyer that I couldn't find for my own family. That's what this is for and I just see such a need for it. And every day, I'm more and more convinced that this is what I should be doing. But we're a startup so I'm just like, you know, figuring it out as I go. How do help more people? That's I wake up every day like how do I help more people looking through the inquiries and trying to get back to every single person because nobody got back to me, right? And I just want every single person to have an opportunity to talk to me or I hired a wonderful intake director Casey McCurry, who's also a mold survivor, so that you can call our office and you can have guidance from from people who have been there, right. And like you, I don't have it all figured out, I'm on the journey, and I'm learning every day. But I want to share the resources I have, and what I've learned about how to build a case. And, you know, if I can't help you, you're in some other state, I want to point you in the right direction. And because I think, as you know, survivors, we're on a mission, right, and we want to help each other and there's zero competition, it's an open, first of all, it's an open playing field, because there's nobody else out there. But it's also when you're in it for the right reason. It's a mission, right?

Alicia Swamy: 15:55

I totally agree with you, I often feel waking up daily and working on Exposing Mold, like, there's an energy flowing through me that is doing the work, and I am just the person to carry it out. I'm not a super religious person and I you know, I don't subscribe to any one belief, but I just feel like there is some sort of energy that is pushing me to do this, and that's why, you know, maybe we were all injured for a reason. And, you know, we were strong enough to deal with it and figure it out, and kind of and also privileged enough to have the resources to go ahead and pursue something and do something about it. And, you know, Kealy I really would love for Kealy to tell her story about when she was injured and how, like you she couldn't find anyone and, you know, just kind of dropped the ball. And so I would love to steer the conversation with Kealy to just describe your situation, and maybe we can talk more about what you're doing for for mold injured families to seek restitution on their injuries?

Kristina Baehr: 16:55

Yeah.

Kealy Severson: 16:56

Well, I think Kristina, you summarized it perfectly, there are not that many lawyers that are versed in this, and on the right side of this. I think most of the environmental lawyers are actually arguing on the other side of mold can't hurt you that bad, and it's not that big of a deal, and it's everywhere.

Kristina Baehr: 17:19

That's right.

Kealy Severson: 17:20

So when that was our situation, we we had a lawyer, but he left he left, he took the case on contingency, because he thought it was a slam dunk and then he left the case because he was offered another job. And it's just really nice to hear that there's lawyers like you up and coming that will be there to help other people.

Kristina Baehr: 17:43

Yeah, I'm taking over some of those cases, where the lawyers just let the the cases languish, you know.

Kealy Severson: 17:50

Good

Kristina Baehr: 17:50

And it's horrible. It's horrible. And I think sometimes it's because they don't know and they get kind of overwhelmed with the science. And it's not that hard to prove. But I'm so sorry that you had that experience. I hate hearing that about other lawyers.

Kealy Severson: 18:08

It's part of life, I'm just and I'm probably the most resilient person I know. So I'm happy that you're on board for the other people who are going to need access to great lawyers who are willing to fight for the truth. And I really, I hope that exposing mold can be a support for any work that you do in the future, whether it's access to researchers, or publicizing things, or backing up science, really just anything that we can support you with, I would love to be and honored to be part of the work, because I feel like as more cases are proved in a court of law, we might be able to inch towards a little bit more progress on the legality of some of this.

Kristina Baehr: 18:51

I think, I think that's right. Yeah, I want there to be a this is about so much more than me. I want to raise up an army of lawyers to represent families around the country. I mean, it's, I think my story resonates so much with people, not just in the mold community, but also outside the mold community, because it can happen to anybody. Right? I made Bob at this deposition yesterday, begin the deposition, reading my son's essay about losing his home and watching his brother in therapy. And it was like, for me, it was just a message to the other layers of this could happen to you. You know, like, I am one of you. This could be your family. Right. And I had never heard of mycotoxins. I didn't even know that that was a thing like toxic mold. It's like out of a sci fi movie and I continually pinch myself. Am I really doing this with my life? This is just so outside the realm of what I ever thought I would, could do. But I think the main thing you have to nail them on is if somebody what I think I bring to the table is the privilege, as you mentioned, of my background is like, you can't label me a wacko, I'm not a wacko, I'm just like, have, you know, a relatively nerdy smart person who got poisoned by the people who built my house and did a bad job, you know, like, they're not bad people. They're good people, but they cut corners that led to water intrusion, that lead to microbial growth. That poisoned my family. Right. And like, that's not we can talk about next, if you want how to prove a mold case. But it's not hard, right, like, asking, let's say a roofer hypothetically, omitted a critical part of the house of the roof, hypothetically, roofer, you know, that water intrusion causes harm, right? And you know, that this mistake, or this intentional omission is going to cause water damage, right? And you also know that water damage can cause mold, and mold can poison people, right? knows that they're neglect in their poor job is right now resulting in harm, that's when it crosses over from considering this to be just water damage into a health crisis. Yes, Erik, you're right. I mean, it's that is that I would call battery. It's the intentional infliction of bodily harm. The cases I'm getting every day are, the landlord just came in and painted over it. I mean, these military families, right? But these military contractors just come in, and they paint over it. They know what the root of the problem is, you know, there's an entire community in Florida where they just forgot to put in vapor barriers. But every family calls and says, I have a mold problem. And they come and they clean the air ducts. Right? Which only makes people sicker and they never addressed the root of the problem, which is the same in every single damn house, which is that they built this entire community without vapor barriers. Someone needs to be held accountable for that, right. This is an intentional omission. You know that these houses are making people sick, and you're continuing to just, you know, the equivalent of painting over it, and letting them continue to suffer. That's battery. That's intentional infliction of bodily harm.

Erik Johnson: 22:50

Yeah, you said something that really resonated with me. And that a lot of us that tangled with the killer, toxic black mold, use the identical words, we say the same thing over and over again. They go to a doctor and say, doctor, I feel like I've been hit by a truck. And the doctor never asks, well, was it a Mack truck or was it a Kenworth?

Kristina Baehr: 23:15

Yeah!

Erik Johnson: 23:17

That seems a little silly. But, you know, an F 150 is not the same as a Peterbilt. And even though they'll both do bodily damage if you get hit with a Kenworth. I mean, you got slammed by something that is so overwhelming, that this is not your plain, ordinary garden variety mold. It's a special situation and that's what we were dealing with in the original chronic fatigue syndrome outbreak. We went to doctors and said, there is something here that is so bad, it is off the charts. And I mean, it was a big truck. Yeah. And we followed up on it and it was Stachybotrys.

Kristina Baehr: 23:55

Right. Yeah. I've heard you speak about that before, Erik. And that's, that's so powerful. Yeah. I mean, how many people out there just are so sick, and they don't know why? And in these military communities, you go and you say, I feel like I've been hit by a truck. And I've been reading about homes and is my home toxic? And the military doctors literally will look them right in the face and say, Oh, no, no.

Erik Johnson: 24:20

And they're going, Oh, no, no, that was just an F 150. That was just a little truck, wasn't that bad?

Kristina Baehr: 24:26

I mean, you know, have you have you been exercising lately? Have you been sleeping enough? Like that's the answers that they're getting. I mean at least in my case, the doctors that I was going to, they were good doctors, and they were trying their best. They just didn't have the mold in their toolbox. And that's one reason I kind of wanted to talk more and shout it from the rooftops because I want doctors to hear the message too. Right? I know you do too. You just want we all just want our our professionals to know what's going to help people get better, right?

Erik Johnson: 25:02

So your opposition is basically trying to make the case that it was no big deal, all mold is pretty much the same. So if you were injured by mold, we can't really consider this to be a special extremely hazardous case. You know, they're going to try to dumb it down in every way possible. Whereas you're trying to say, no, there are certain molds out there that are special, that are toxic, and they create permanent immune damage.

Kristina Baehr: 25:29

That's right, Erik. And I think that that's a huge point. It's permanent damage. And I think, you know, I was on Fox the other day, and it was the Austin version, and I'm talking about neurological damage, and I'm talking about what happened, my kids, and I'm like telling my sob story. And then at the end, they put on a screen mold is known to cause adverse health effects, mold causes asthma, and headaches. And I was like, Oh, my God. I was like, embarrassed to be associated with the story, right? I mean, when I posted it on my Instagram, I cut off the last slide. It's like, for the love of God, this causes neurological and immunological, permanent injury. My family is permanently injured, my three year old will never be the same. Like this is not asthma. Asthma is bad, don't get me wrong, I know that asthma can be very severe. But my family doesn't even have asthma. Why are you posting about asthma like after you've heard my story, right? Nobody in my family has asthma, we have immunological and neurological injuries that are permanent, because we lived in this house for eight years that was poisoning us the whole time. You know.

Erik Johnson: 26:55

When the Center for Disease Control saw the immunological damage from the clusters of sick teachers in sick buildings, they did the most amazing, amazing thing. It's exactly the same tactic that you're confronted with. They named the syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome. This opened the door for people to say, Oh, well mold causes chronic fatigue, and completely forget about the severe immunological evidence that they were really scared of and that they didn't want people to look into.

Kristina Baehr: 27:29

Yeah, and I had a tumor also. And it was, I mean, it was real, like I collapsed and was taken to the emergency room. And it took a long time for them to figure out that, that I had severe anemia, and that, that I have this, this tumor that needed to be removed. And it's, you know, thankfully, by that point, I had gotten to a really good doctor who understood who understands mold, and complex for me, it was it's diagnosed as complex inflammatory response syndrome. That in itself, as you know, Erik is a complicated term. Do we need to call it that, or can we call it complex inflammation? I don't know. It's tricky, but I have a serious diagnosis, in addition to other things. And my really wonderful doctor in Austin, Eleanor Womack explained to me that it's all related to my toxic exposure over that many years and it manifested in anemia and in POTS and in a tumor and, and in migraines, and a night sweats and like all you know, insomnia and I can go on and on as you all have.

Erik Johnson: 28:41

Dr. Shoemaker came up with the biotoxin illness concept, based on the idea that he was seeing a similar damage between Pfisteria and Lyme disease and what was occurring in sick building syndromes. It was the structure equals function in that the specific nature of the toxic exposure, the actual, you know, ion ring ionophore molecule was all striking the immune system in the same way, resulting in the same kind of illness. But, at the time, he was primarily concerned with toxic mold, Stachybotrys, because that was in the news. That was the one that was scaring everybody and I assumed that eventually, he was going to link up his biotoxin illness concept with Stachybotrys and insert this into a specific syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome and get research into this. But he kept drifting the other way, drawing in more and more factors, brown recluse spider bites. Yeah. And finally, it became sort of a toxic soup, where, no matter what he discovers, if it doesn't link up to something specific, it's a very little value. I don't use that chronic inflammatory response term, because it's devolved into something that is too vague to have any practical value. When toxic mold illness first emerged, it was because the discovery of Stachybotrys, that was the first one to make the news in a big way. So when people talked about mold illness, toxic mold illness, the dreaded black mold, they were talking about something extremely specific. Yeah, that was a term, and that's the one I continue to use.

Kristina Baehr: 30:29

Well, Erik, I don't know if you've had a chance to, to come across Dr. Jamie Lichtenstein in your research. But I, you know, when I was trying to figure out the science for my own family and trying to figure out how to meet the legal standard in Texas, which is very high, or could be considered high. So I wanted to know like, well, what does the science say, besides the Shoemaker folks who are wonderful, don't get me wrong, they're wonderful and have done amazing work. But I wanted to look to academia, I have kind of a bend towards academia. So I wanted to look towards the more academic side to see is anybody in research institutions and universities thinking and writing about mold? And I found Dr. Lichtenstein, who has been writing about Stachybotrys and the cytokine storm that happens when human cells interact with Stachybotrys. And so I got connected to her and I hired her as legal expert in my case, and I asked her point blank, does mold cause systemic inflammation? And she said, Oh, yes, absolutely. And she said, it causes this cytokine storm that's very similar to long COVID. And that's why we see some of the same symptoms over time with what it's what happens when there's long term inflammation. And then I said, Well, what about neurological damage? And she said, Yes, absolutely. And so what I what she's done for me is she's gone through the literature, and cited the studies for, you know, mold causes complex inflammation, and she's got 30 peer reviewed studies, right? And I think that what we what I what I want to do for my cases, is really merge the science and the, on the integrative side that these doctors have been treating this for a long time, and they have been heroes, right? With some of the more recent academic research, to say the science, the academic research really has caught up. The last decade has, and as you guys know, you've been feeling I'm preaching to the choir, you're the ones who are doing so much good in the world by sharing these studies. But the most the last decade has made enormous strides in the science to prove that toxic mold, and Stachybotrys, in particular, but others also cause neurological harm, they cause immunological harm, and the harm is permanent, right? And so we just need to convince the foxes of the world. And I was really, really thankful that CNBC included that in their written report, that was really, I was just so thankful, because that's what I want people to know, you know that it's not, it doesn't just go away when you move out of your house. It's a lifelong, it's a lifelong journey that we're on now.

Erik Johnson: 33:25

Yeah, and unfortunately, the fact that Stachybotrys exposure is cumulative from a number of different sources, means that it's very difficult to prove that whatever happened you in your house is the sole cause of your illness. And so you can hold one builder, completely liable for the sum total of whatever went on. If you've had any exposures elsewhere. Now, you've got to prove your way out from under that. So it requires a strong circumstantial case, that you didn't have any prior illness, and you have to demonstrate that the presence of this particular mold was at a level high enough and that you had sufficient exposure, to result in precisely the type of illness that you're complaining about.

Kristina Baehr: 34:13

Yeah, that's right. But I don't think it's that hard. I don't think it's it's so we'll see. Right, we'll see how my case turns out how other cases turn out but, but Bob's been doing this for a long time, and he's been very successful. And I think when you show like in my case, right, you've got a family, who all have very similar symptoms of neurological harm, and then you have pictures of Chaetomium and Stachybotrys and where that where it's located right, where we were eating, where we were sleeping, where we were bathing, the air we were breathing, and then you show the mycotoxins that are in the HVAC and those match the mycotoxins in your body. Now you're building pretty good case for a jury to say, Yeah, that makes sense to me.

Erik Johnson: 35:04

Like a Melinda Ballard, case where it's so overwhelming that there's no doubt.

Kristina Baehr: 35:11

Yeah. And I learned about Melinda Ballard early on and and, you know, I never, of course got a chance to meet her. But she's another mold warrior from Texas. And, you know, I want to honor her because she was a giant in the legal world, and she dedicated her life to this. And, you know, I think that, since her case, she was not able to prove a personal injury case in Texas. And I think since her case, the science really has caught up, and I think we can meet the standard that she wasn't able to meet in her case, but she was still able to use her personal injury in her case against the insurance company to say, like, look at the harm that was caused to my family, and that's how she got the $38 million verdict, on a personal injury case.

Erik Johnson: 36:07

So in cases where the evidence is so completely overwhelming, like a complete cluster of sick people, in a specific room, or in a certain building, then you've got a pretty good circumstantial case. But I still question, what happens to the individual who went from place to, place to, place and was exposed to Stachybotrys over a long period of time, and then had one final exposures that kicked them off, where does that leave them?

Kristina Baehr: 36:40

So I think that that's a that's a challenging case. And I think that that is the most challenging case. I have seen a few of those cases that I would be willing to take, where they were exposed, and then they were feeling way better, and their scores were back to normal and they were feeling great, and we know that they're sensitive because of their prior exposure, and then they go into a home and they get sick again, and their mycotoxins in their body, match the mycotoxins in their house, etc. That is, I think that that's a good, that's a good case. But when someone's sick, and then the first house that made them sick, and then there's another house, and a third house, and a fourth house. That's more than I'm willing to take on right now. I wanted to tell your viewers kind of what makes a good case, because I'm getting a lot of inquiries. So what makes a good case? Do you have a certified mold inspection from someone legit? And you have to be careful because you don't want to hire someone who's just going to take an air sample in the middle of the room. They need to do dust sampling and air sampling. And they should take the air sampling in a place that is affected, right, like my daughter's wall was where we found the Stachybotrys so and mycotoxin testing, have they taken mycotoxin testing of their house and their bodies, and did they test their belongings, and you really need a certified mold inspector, if you're going to have a case. You can't do your own ERMI, you need your own certified mold inspector. Okay, then you need to go get find a mold literate doctor and be willing to pursue treatment. And you also need to be willing to leave. And this is really, really, really hard. I've had probably 100 of the people who have called are not able or willing to leave. And I understand because I've been there too. For some people, it's cost prohibitive, and I get it, it's some people are not able to leave. But I unfortunately, and I think any other personal injury lawyer can't prove that your house is uninhabitable if you're living there. So you just have to make a choice, if you want to bring a case you can't be living in the in the environment. So those are those are really the big things I ask. Do you have mold testing? Are you willing to get medical treatment? And have you gotten medical treatment already? And are you willing to continue? And then are you willing and able to leave? And then the last thing is the statute of limitations, because I've gotten a lot of calls from people who say and I talked to this girl the other day, y'all, she's probably listening to this podcast, and she was just the perfect plaintiff. She did all of those things and she's gotten a huge amount of medical care. She's taken such good care of her body. She had all the videos and the photos and all the things and she's been looking for a lawyer in Texas for three years. And the statute of limitations is two and I had to tell her like, I just wish that I I was here three years ago listening to this conversation, because I would have taken your case, you know, but the statute of limitations is two years in Texas. And then in a lot of other states, it can be three or four, two, or even one. So you just have to know the statute of limitations in your state. And then, you know, make sure you bring a claim within that period of time. And every state is different in terms of when it begins to run. When does that two years begin to start and typically, it's when did you know or should have known that you were exposed to mold.

Alicia Swamy: 40:34

This whole statute of limitations, where did this come from? Is this state by state? How can the people like, you know, like us? Can we advocate for longer statute of limitations? Like, I don't even know if you have the answers to these questions, but maybe you can elaborate more.

Kristina Baehr: 40:53

So I think it probably comes from the common law. It's true in any case, there's breach of contract statute of limitations, there's fraud statute limitations, and it's okay. It's not something there are other battles, we want to fight. This isn't one of them. This is just how the law works. You, you know, the law protects people from you can't, you know, years later, say that you were harmed by something that happened years ago. It's just it's hard to prove. But also, at some point, the defendants are off the hook. So let me give you an example where you would be for a statute of limitations, right? I had this case, where I was representing these doctors who had invented this really cool drug. And the drug company, paid them royalties, $300 million over, I think it was like 15 years. And then the drug company decided that they wanted to stop paying them. So what do they do? They hired Williams and Connolly, a big firm in Washington D.C., and they bring a breach of contract claim against the doctors. And they say, Well, you know, didn't follow section four of the agreement, you know, for all these years. And I was able to get the doctors out of that case by saying no, no, no. There's a statute of limitations here. If they were violating section four this agreement, then they've been doing that for 15 years. And the statute of limitations for breach of contract claim is three years, whatever it was in the state. So can you see how that that was a fair result? So that's the point of statute of limitations in the law.

Kealy Severson: 42:42

Kristina, I have a question about the inspections. I know that in my State of Wisconsin, the statute of limitations for mold cases is three years and I also know of a case where a building biologist did a report with surface sampling, and the report was actually thrown out of court because she wasn't a microbiologist. Do you have specific recommendations when you talk about a certified inspection? What certification are we looking at? Do we want a microbiologist on the scene? Do we want a specific type of certification when we're calling for sampling?

Kristina Baehr: 43:20

That's a really good question. That's a really good question. I don't know I have to I have to think about that. I think it's probably going to depend on the state. So I have my go to experts in in Texas, who are certified under under the Texas licensing requirements. And I know that's enough here, but I don't know, in other states, so I should stay in my lane.

Kealy Severson: 43:46

Do you anticipate when you go to court, the defense having a lot of wacky crazy arguments to discredit you and have they?

Kristina Baehr: 43:56

Oh, yeah, I mean, my deposition was 10 hours long. It's the longest deposition that I've ever sat in, in my entire legal career. I've never been to a deposition that lasted that long. And it was my own. It was over two days. The first day went until like, 11pm and then it started again the next morning. I mean, what are they even asking about for 10 hours? Right?

Kealy Severson: 44:18

I bet that was emotional to relive all of that.

Kristina Baehr: 44:22

Oh, yeah. I mean, and it's in these military cases, it's just flat out abusive.

Kealy Severson: 44:28

Military cases are some of the worst that I hear about. I mean, those are really, really heartbreaking and a breach and a threat to national security for these people to be living this way.

Kristina Baehr: 44:38

That's exactly yes. It's a national security issue. We can't have our military families sick and it's like every house, it's not just I mean, it is a massive issue. But the defense that you know, in, because I have a series of mold cases and have learned from Bob and Karen and others and others, a general mold case you just bring the case and, you know, they raise their defenses and you do depositions, and then you settle the case. Right? In most cases. But in these military cases it's just a scorched earth defense. Every, every issue has to be litigated. I mean, it just they have they have like 10 people on a call, you know, in my case in North Carolina, they went to take 25 depositions. I mean, it's just insane. It is insane. And they're trying to price out the, the personal. I mean, I my, my belief is they want to price out the plaintiffs and basically just squelch them, because they know that there's like, an there's endless liability there.

Kealy Severson: 45:49

When you say priced out, do you mean make the costs to proceed so high that it's not attainable to the average person?

Kristina Baehr: 45:57

Yeah.

Kealy Severson: 45:58

Is that what that term means? Okay.

Erik Johnson: 46:00

I had a lawyer tell me that years ago, we don't actually have to win the case, we just have to prolong it until you give up.

Kealy Severson: 46:07

Wow.

Kristina Baehr: 46:09

And I think that's why so many of mold litigation plaintiffs have given up because they're, you know, and my own family, right, like we've been paying rent, in addition to our construction, in addition to our mortgage, in addition to all of the medical bills. I mean, we have begged, borrowed, and you know, not stolen, but like this was just financially devastating. Right? And so, yeah, especially if a lawyer isn't willing to take it on contingency. Whereas when I was doing this, no one was right, like no one even returned my call. And I have a big case and I think I have a really good case. I have clear liability. I have a lot of injuries, like so yeah. families aren't able to afford a lawyer or if they are, they're only able to afford like a demand letter, and then the defendants get away with murder. So what Bob and I are really passionate about is teaching more lawyers how to do these claims so that they can take them on contingency. They can build just the basic elements of the case, which is what caused the mold? Are they sick? Prove causation, general and specific, and prove damages, you know, and you're done. That's it. I think we can do this. I think I want more lawyers. If you're a lawyer, and you're listening, like please call me I want to help you do it, a friend just called me, and he's Jag former Jag. And he lives in New Orleans and I'm like, there's a lot of mold in New Orleans, you need to join me, you know, and he's coming with me, hopefully, to Hawaii next week, because the Navy has poisoned the water there. You've probably read about this with for Red Hill. But I'm going to be building a case in Hawaii for military families, and I just need partners, right? Like, I'm only one person, so I need partners and we want to help more lawyers do this everywhere.

Kealy Severson: 48:23

Well, I love what you said about building an army of lawyers because that's what I would also really like to see have a leg in this race. Is it okay, if I asked you a personal question before we go?

Kristina Baehr: 48:39

Mm hmm.

Kealy Severson: 48:40

In watching your news clip, something. Well, a few things caught my attention. But one of them was specifically something that your husband said. It was your health was declining and he had told the reporter he essentially told you, you have a high performing job, just suck it up. This is what it is. And my question to you is, did the exposure affect your marriage at all in a way of getting along or being able to connect with each other and understand each other because that was my experience and experiences that I see discussed a lot. I would just love it if you would share if you had the same experience.

Kristina Baehr: 49:31

So yes, and we're super open about that. We haven't talked about that yet. But I mean, I wasn't a very, I've never been a very angry person. Not that I'm nice all the time or anything but I never would yell or slam a door or anything until that house and then suddenly you have like, I'm slamming doors and I'm flying off the handle about things. And I think that he had some of that too. And yeah,and then I don't get into the details of what was going on with some of my kids. But let's just say it was extreme. And yeah, the rage is crazy. But I also think that's a separate issue, right? Like, I would say that there's rage and anger there between us, a lot of it was me. I think because my brain was short circuited, I just had a much shorter fuse. And a lot of that I mean, I haven't slammed a door since that house like I and I never slammed door before I got to that house not once, not my whole life. Right. And but a separate question I think that you asked is what happens like when one person is starting to deal with the issues of realizing you're in a toxic home, and you need to move out, and it's not safe for your family. Those are big realizations and not everybody comes to them at the same time. And also, sometimes the advice that you're getting is, well, we took it out of our daughter's wall, it's gone. We're done. We did it. Like, we're good. We just get some air scrubbers in and we're good. And I think that's where his mind was and because that's what I mean, honestly, that's what we were told at the time, like we're done. And I was really, and I'm a litigator, too. So I'm trying to get to the answer like, Well, if there's this defect here, I had an expert come over, and I had two, and they really explained to me that if there's this defect here, it's probably likely that it's elsewhere in the house. And you know, then the mama bear, I'm like a litigator and a mama bear at the same time, right. And so the mama bear gets amped up, and it's like, well, then I need to know, like, everywhere it is. You know, and so he walked around the perimeter of the house, and he found that that same, the house just wouldn't flash, like literally was not, it was flashed in two places, and in the two places it was flashed, it was wrong. And the rest of the roof had no flashing. And that's because in my particular case, it has to do with how the plans were written. I was I was the one talking to the experts and so it took him a little while to kind of realize that I wasn't just flying off the handle again. Right. So he admitted that on national television. I give him so much credit for that. I also think that look, I think that the mold gets to people too, right? And when one spouse is having a hard time accepting it, I think it's partly that the mold is affecting their brain too and we have to have extra grace. I wish that I had had some more grace at that time because the first time when we left our house, I was like, I'm taking these, we're leaving today, and you can come if you want. But here's the address. I mean, I was like on a mission and that's not a great way to like approach the situation. It's where I was at the time.

Kealy Severson: 53:29

But when you're fighting for your life, when you're fighting for your life, and you are figuring out what's going on, and you're the one that sees it, and you are literally thinking my kids could die from a neurological emergency, if I do not get them out of this house. Once you put those pieces together and you're talking to someone who's like a brick wall, and you cannot get through them, packing up and leaving with your kids is about the only thing that you can do to save yourself and your kids.

Kristina Baehr: 53:55

That's right. And that's like one thing that I want to say, Kealy, like, if you're in a house, it's making you sick, it really could kill you. I mean, it's really impactful to me that the only other lawyer in my area does this is wrongful death claims, because that's where this leads. So if your house is killing you, find a way to get out of the house. I mean, I'm so inspired by all the people who go and live in a tent. Right? Like, people find a way to leave because you have nothing without your health and if it's making you sick, you got to go, you know, and yeah, it was the best thing that I've ever done. It was the best decision I've ever made for my family and I know that everybody's in a different place on the journey. But I had I think that the and I don't I don't want to be gendered or anything but because maybe men have this too but I know that the mamas that I've spoken to have this innate mama bear instinct. That's like, I gotta find out what's going on with my kids, and I'm gonna get to the bottom of it. I mean, they're saving their family's life, like they are heroes. And I mean, these military mamas, I have walked with them in the halls of Congress, and I cannot tell you how inspiring they are. They're on a mission to like, save our country, right? Because it starts with your own children, you're saving your family. But then that mama bear, I think expands to like everybody else's children, and you just, yeah, you're like, and it's the best. Sometimes you have to. I mean, I had to leave. But the second time around, I have to say, when we have to had to leave our rental. I was just calmer. You know, I took Evan out to lunch and I was like, I just want you to know that we have a problem in this house, and I know that because the same inspector who came to examine the HVAC at my other house, I got him to come look at this house, and it's the same problem. And I'm really, really sorry, but we are going to have to leave again. And I just had more compassion, because it's like a big deal to say you're going to have to leave a place.

Alicia Swamy: 56:08

This is something that Erik has said multiple times in the past that you know, it's going to be the mothers who are the driving force of change in this issue. And you know, here we are. I'm not a mom. But yeah, like what you said, you feel like a mama bear to others because you know, what you went through and you want to help people, either A) get out of it and get well or B) like completely avoid it. Don't be in a place where you think it's not going to affect you and all of a sudden, you know, everyone's mold raging each other in the house and everyone's sick. And you're like, Oh, well, it got me, you know. So we're all working hard together to try to fix this and I'm just so happy that you came on today to just share with us your story and what you've done. All right, Kristina so where can our audience find you if they are looking for a litigator to help them in their mold case?

Kristina Baehr: 57:12

So I called my law firm Just Well and it was actually my husband who came up with the name. But I just want my clients to get well, and I just want to get well, and I really believe that the law allows for recovery for people who are sick to recover from the people who made them sick. And so that's what my law firm my little law firm is, it's just I represent sick families against the companies or the people that made them sick. And it's called Just Well Law and we're based in Texas. Bob McKee and I have just joined forces to consult on cases around the country so we can help you even if you're not in Texas, we can take cases in Texas and then I'm trying to build referral networks and partnerships with someone in every state. I'm brand new, this is a startup so you have to have patience with us. But I want to build something that that is able to help people in every single state. That is my goal. That's my vision. And I think we're gonna get there with the team we have, and the team we're building, and we're looking for partners. So if you've got an entrepreneurial personal injury lawyer, or any kind of lawyer, an entrepreneurial lawyer who wants to help in any state, I'd love to be connected to them. Thank you so much for having me. I'm just like, so inspired by the three of you, and the work that you have done in this field, I just think that you're giants and you're literally changing the world and making it a safer place to live, and I'm in awe of you.

Alicia Swamy: 58:50

Thank you so much, Kristina, I know Kealy's tearing up over there and she has been and I am going to tear up to because again, we're just trying to do what's best for the greater good and it's really not about me, or Erik, or Kealy. It's just about all of us coming together as a driving force and trying to make change and help people. And again, thank you so much, Kristina, for joining us today. It was such a wonderful conversation. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your story, and just letting us know what you've done to turn this into an opportunity to help others and we look forward to working with you again or partnering in some capacity in the future. We'd love to just figure something out in that regards. So everyone, please check us on all podcasting platforms, like, share, comment on our content, check out our GoFundMe and Patreon pages, we just launched an educational group that is extremely low cost, $22 per month. You will have access to us and a lot of information that we'll have coming up in the future. So please check that out at Exposing Mold website on the Education tab. So thank you so much, everyone, and we'll see you next time. Take care.