Season 9 Episode 1 - Interview with Mic Gordon

Welcome to a brand new season of our #HomeForAll Podcast - our ninth one! To kick off on the right foot, we started off strong with an interview with your 2026 Ohio REALTORS President, Mic Gordon! 

We welcomed Mic to the recording studio to hear directly from him on the successes of the industry, how Ohio REALTORS impacts our Association and what his plans for his Presidential year include!

Looking to contact Mic yourself? You can do so via email: gordon@ohiorealtors.org or via his cell phone: 614.774.9097

Questions about the content in this podcast? Contact your ACAR Communications Director Kelli Moss by emailing kmoss@akronclevelandrealtors.com.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome back to the Home for All Podcast. Let me first start by saying Happy New Year to everyone out there. It is 2026. Who can believe that? I am thrilled to be back in the studio for yet another great episode of our ACAR podcast. We are kicking 2026 off in great style. You will be hearing from our 2026 ACAR executive committee this year in January, along with today's guest, who is also a bit of a celebrity in the real estate world. Today we're talking to none other than the new 2026 Ohio Realtors president, Mr. Mick Gordon. Mick took the time to come up to ACAR a few weeks ago and sit down with us for a great chat. I will not go on and on about it. I will just say that it's time to grab your coffee and your earbuds and make this spot your home for the next 30 or so minutes. We're happy that you're here. The ACAR Home for All Podcast is a bi-weekly production where we will host interviews, facilitate conversations, and talk about what's happening in the world of real estate. We'll introduce you to important people in your community and help you learn how to grow your real estate-related business. This is an adult show, and some adult language might occasionally creep into the conversation. This podcast is for educational and informational purposes, and the opinions shared on the podcast do not necessarily represent the views of the Akron Cleveland Association of Realtors, Ohio Realtors, or the National Association of Realtors. That said, let's move forward and find out what makes Northeast Ohio the best home for all. Well, welcome back, everyone out there listening today. If uh you listened to the opener, which I hope you did, you know who's in the studio today. We also have a frequent guest in the interviewer seat. Hello, ACAR CEO Mike Vallerino. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Good. How are you doing, Kelly?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

I am I am pretty good. It's actually a little warmer today, so I'm I'm pretty happy about that. It's uh you know, I should be used to it by now, but I'm still not. I'm not a cold girl. I don't like the cold weather. But uh, but you've made my day because I have really nothing to do. I just get to sit here and play with the tech and you're taking over.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

So just push the buttons, there you go, and uh Mick and I will do the talk. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Buttons are pushed, you're on your own. Go for it.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Thank you. So we're we're um I'm really grateful today to have uh 2026 soon-to-be president of Ohio Realtors, Mick Gordon, who made the trip up from Columbus, and and thank you for for making the trip, for being here with us uh today to speak to our members.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Uh you're quite welcome. Um it's an honor to be here.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Um, and so uh happy to have you here at our at our office. And we just did the tour with Mick, and now we're gonna sit down and kind of talk about 2026 and and what we see on the horizon. And you know, let's get into it. I I think as you uh as you prepare to step into the Ohio Realtors presidency for 2026, can you talk about what some of your top priorities might be and what Ohio Realtors members should be most excited about in the year ahead?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Sure. I um, you know, Ohio Realtors priorities around home ownership, private property rights, those are all my priorities as well. Um we are uh and I have announced on a few different occasions now that our my focus as president of Ohio Realtors in 2026 is gonna be around realtor wellness. And um, you know, it's it's something that when you come into a role like this, you're not you're not quite set and you're you're not ready uh maybe to answer a big question like that. Like what do you want to do? What what is it? Why are you doing it? And uh you know, when they asked me the question, and it's been almost a year ago that they asked me to start thinking about it, I started to think of what we've been through in real estate and in the last five years, and and then it evolved into me thinking what I've personally been through in the last five years. And you know, 2020 uh rocked all of us, right? I mean, who would have predicted a worldwide pandemic and you know, we came within weeks of just being shut down as an industry. Uh I happen to own a quite large brokerage with 320 agents and and thinking about everybody trying to make their house payments and and all of that, and not being able to close transactions, it just uh it was jarring uh to say the least. And obviously, here's my plug for uh RPAC and the advocacy we do at Ohio Realtors to be able to get real estate identified as an essential service in the state of Ohio was so important. And and um, you know, and what that did to us mentally, we are realtors, we get paid to fix problems. So that's really a big part of uh our job description, right? And not just in transactions, but in in everything. And so we kicked into gear and we were wearing masks and gloves and carrying around uh Clorox wipes and you know, handing keys off and not showing how I mean just all the things we went through was crazy. And then that moved into as things started settling down. One of the craziest real estate markets in my 35 years of in, you know, doing this. I, you know, 18 offers on the first day, and you know,$100,000 over list price, it was insane. And um, you know, I I feel sorry for people that just worked with buyers during that that time period. It was really difficult to do business and and to help your clients win. And uh 2021, I lost my father uh to a 15-year battle with Parkinson's, and Patty and I became empty nesters, and my daughters went on to Ohio State and have since graduated and all the things, right? In the last five years. And in the middle of that, I decided, hey, you know, why don't I raise my hand and be an officer for Ohio Realtors? But um I look I the why behind that is real estate has been tremendously good to my family and to me. Uh I'm second generation and giving back is is very important. But um I also had some physical ailments. Uh I didn't even my my election, if you recall, down in Cincinnati, I missed because I was in the hospital and uh had some physical issues, some some personal issues, and it's just been a hell of a five years. And uh and we as realtors, like I say, focus on others so much that we forget to take care of ourselves. And uh so personal realtor wellness is a focus that is so important to me, and and I love the reception I've gotten around the state so far of hey, let's just talk about this, because that's where it starts. So I'm sorry for the long answer on a very short question.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

And it's you know, it's very timely. I I I see that too. Yeah. Um everything that has happened over the last five years has been completely unpredictable. All of it. Um and in a way, maybe that's prepared you for your presidency because um there are bound to be as much as you can plan um and you know, have your priorities in order and and all those things, there are bound to be things that come up that you just can't predict or or plan for, and so much of it is is flying by the seat of your pants.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Well, it is it's sort of an inside joke between past presidents of locals and even statewide. Um everybody has their thing. It happens to them during their year. Uh, I was in 2017, I was Columbus president, and um I thought I was off the hook come October, uh, and then Zillow decided to do their thing with small brokers, and and then we lost our um uh Excelent uh for our commercial exchange. And you know, so as I was winding things down, everything just started ramping up and all holy heck broke loose, and and I was and Stan Collins, the CEO at the time, just sort of chuckled. She and he told me, because everybody has their thing. And I thought I was gonna get away with it, but I didn't.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

And this was yours, and you know, one of the things I think that that helps um presidents kind of navigate those things is is is the backbone that's in place uh of the organization. Um and in this case I'm talking about the three-way agreement, and and if if you're not familiar, um those of you listening, uh realtor membership is built on a three-way agreement. So when you join your local association and you become a member of ACAR, you also um become a realtor member of the National Association of Realtors uh and of Ohio Realtors, and and those three organizations um work in in tandem together on behalf of our members. So, Mick, from from your perspective, why is that structure a a strength and how does it help Ohio realtors specifically to be able to support our members?

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Yeah, I think it it it probably benefits all three at the exact same time just by its nature and how it works. You know, uh messaging number one, right? I mean, real estate is all local, but it's all very much a national thing as well, all at the same time. And in between there, you have the state, and um it allows us through our work locally, state level, and nationally to have uh the same voice, right? And um while you know your listeners and your members here at ACAR are dealing with different things than they are in Cincinnati, we as a state have to deal with things at the at the state house, and we get help from the national, and we get our messaging a lot of times from the national because there are federal laws that affect real estate, just like there's state laws and local laws. So it it is it is very much an important part of who we are. I don't think by ourselves as a local that we would and I'm a local member as well, right? At Columbus, um we wouldn't really stand alone without that support at the state level and the national level.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Absolutely. I you know, I think advocacy is is one of the best examples of of the three-way agreement um in action because you know here locally at ACAR, we're we're on top of the municipalities uh and in our jurisdiction and working with the mayors and uh the members of of city council on the issues that are important to us, and at the same time, the lobbyists in Columbus for Ohio realtors are doing the same thing. And at the national level, this year we were able to bring back um in excess of$200,000 in in grant money from the National Association of Realtors that is uh ACAR members dues dollars that we're able to bring back and put to work on behalf of our members on the local level with uh the help of Ohio realtors as well in procuring those funds and planning for how we're going to use them. So there are lots of different ways that that the three organizations work together for for mutual benefit.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Absolutely. And the more you get involved with your association at a local level, you'll you'll see that. You'll see how the state helps, how the how NAR helps, and uh everything uh as it works together, there's definitely a symbiotic relationship between the three. It's it's quite impressive. I uh as a brokerage owner, I'm part of a franchise system, and we have very similar, you know, we're the local franchisee, we have a region, we have an international company that we work with, and it's very similar because all real estate is local, right? And you can never forget that, but you need the power of that big national and the state level to help you tackle those local issues as as they come up.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Absolutely. And you know, speaking of advocacy, I I think this is uh one of the most visible ways that our our members see uh the value of their membership. It's um uh in a lot of ways it's the it's the biggest impact that we can have on on their behalf to um to improve the industry to keep the market strong and and keep housing strong. Um so maybe uh you could talk about a few recent advocacy wins that Ohio Realtors has had, because I I know there have been a number of them that um that that members should be especially proud of.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah, we can we can there's I was listening to a podcast uh about NAR's advocacy, and they've got the the 12 wins of Christmas that they were going through on theirs. And you know, going back to January, it's been quite impressive what we've been able to do at a federal level with uh extensions of a lot of laws that were already in place. But statewise, everybody can relate to this. Um, you know, how many times do you get a day do you get a phone call about hey, I want to buy your house? Well, those phone calls are coming from wholesalers and and they want to secure your home at a very low price with a contract and then sell that that contract and and make their money on the on the difference. And uh just recently signed by Governor DeWine was a new wholesaling bill that uh we advocated on for a long time at the state house and uh quite impressively passed the House of the Ohio Assembly unanimously and passed the Senate unanimously. So every single member of the Ohio Assembly uh voted yes uh to on the on the wholesaling bill, and Governor Dewine signed it almost immediately. So that tells you where um we were able to be on that. And in that law is simply this the wholesalers have to be forthright and honest with their consumer that they're dealing with. They have to disclose an actual market value and not just share with what they think they could buy it for. And it's really about consumer protection and helping, you know. Um there's there's a lot of elder abuse going on with wholesaling, and people that have lived in their homes for 50 years, they hear a number like$150,000. Well, they think that's all the money in the world because they only paid$25,000 for their house. Well, little do they know their home's actually worth three hundred thousand dollars. And this law will require a disclosure, and it's very s uh um specific in its wording that they have to disclose the actual value of the home and what their intention are what their t intentions are, which is not to purchase the home, but to sell that contract and the rights to purchase the home for a profit. And we think that will uh go a long way in consumer protection here in the state. Big win for our Pack of Ohio.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Absolutely. And uh I I understand that uh this is kind of still a big talking point and will be for the year to come um for Ohio realtors and and for our members. Um what should realtors understand about their role moving forward when it comes to to wholesaling?

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Well, uh the good news is with the the new disclosure law that wholesalers will have to follow and and use in their practice and what they do, we will be the ones that will come in, hopefully, uh working on a level playing field and not not being the ones that help a consumer discover that they just got ripped off, right? That this this new law will prevent that uh that fleecing or or whatever we want to call it of of unknowing homeowners. And um, and then we'll do what we do, Mike. You know, we we help facilitate and broker real estate transaction, and when the one of the best things that we do and the ethics that we follow is that we treat all parties fairly, and and that means everybody knows what's going on and everybody understands that.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

And so it's an opportunity for realtors to lead as as we do and and be resources to uh to our our clients. So that's that's fantastic. I do want to shift a little bit um to to forms, and and this is something that that it's it's handled differently in different parts of the state, right? Legal forms. And what what's going on up here, if if you're if you're not aware, in in in northeast Ohio, we have uh a regional MLS, which is MLS Now. ACAR is uh a shareholder uh of MLS Now, and um they have made the decision to uh to get out of the forms business. They you know it it's determined that that's not um really the right the right role for uh for the the MLS to um to be in. Um and so um we we find that I think a lot of brokers and agents may soon be using Ohio Realtors forms more directly, um and they may be the the more appropriate group to um to handle this on our members' behalf because they have uh Ohio Realtors has staff attorneys and an active forums committee uh and a pretty extensive library of uh of legal forms. Um but for members who may be encountering this for the for the first time uh and and change isn't always easy for for anybody, um what what should what should our members expect?

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Well, I think it's our fiduciary duty to understand uh transactionally contracts, right? Uh uh the Ohio contract, I've I've I've been around long enough to watch that be built. And I know that wasn't an overnight uh success. Multiple years it took to build it. Multiple, multiple years. And uh uh shout out to Noreen Marlowe up here in Northeast Ohio. She led that committee for several years, and usually they change their chairs every year, but this was so important, and the consistency and the the uh continuity through those years was important that they had the same leadership at that level, and she did an amazing job because I'll go back to real state, all real estate's local. You guys do do business a little bit different up here in in northeast Ohio than we do in central Ohio and that they do in in Cincinnati and up in Toledo and in the rest of the state. So um the the statewide contract is one of the most thorough real estate contracts I've ever read, and it's important that all of us get our hands on it, and I'm talking to the brokers out there as well. You know, brokers, we have a responsibility to put these in front of our agents so they understand it in case they are presented with one uh as a listing agent so they can explain it and help guide and navigate uh their sellers through working that contract and all the nuances because it's it's not a two-pager. Right? Right, it's it's pretty extravagant, you know, extensive, not extravagant, but extensive, and um and it covers all aspects of how differently we do business in the great state of Ohio.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

So my understanding is that it it's that way intentionally because it reads like a roadmap to the transaction. So when a realtor is walking their client through the um the the the contract when they're when they're making an offer or when they're presenting it, that they're they're they're actually also walking their client through the entire transaction um in doing so, and that's part of the reason for for having it.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

So uh so I can tell you, I know that committee's very proud of their work and they should be because it's a very well-drafted uh document and uh important that it's important that our members know that the first time they see that document shouldn't be receiving an offer on their listing. They need to review that document before they ever get one and understanding it so they can speak professionally and and and work hard for their clients' best interest.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

And and Ohio Realtors also led um when we were you know digesting the the NAR settlement, um, and and we needed to create some buyer agency agreements and um they they they led the way on that work too, and that's that's a big part of the library as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Um Yeah, and that's a lot of the recent stuff that they have produced has been Around that particular agreement and some mutual releases and things. You know, you create one form, and there's usually five other forms that piggyback on that form as well, and that's what they've been dealing with. It's hard to believe it's already 15 months since that all went into play.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Yeah, and so if you're a broker listening to this, uh, you know, I'd encourage you to take a look at the the legal forms library on Ohio Realtors website to consult your attorney or the Ohio Realtors uh legal hotline if you have questions or concerns related to to forms and and the transition that that is happening in in Northeast Ohio. Um and speaking of transitions, um you know, I'd like to talk about the Ohio Division of Realtors as well because this is a timely topic. They're they're experiencing a transition as well with their uh online uh portal and and website. Um, you know, and boy are they.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Yeah, yeah. That has been uh I I take my hat off to Daphne Hawk, our superintendent uh at the Ohio Division of Real Estate, because it was a very brave move to finally get us in that direction of going all electronic with the transfers and the activations and all that. In doing so, they are their their growing pains are extremely painful right now. I can tell you the people that operate our brokerage are just pulling their hair out. It is it is very difficult uh to uh put a system so broad and so big in play and have it be correct quickly. Uh they're finding out is very difficult to do. And uh I I've known Daphne for a long time, long before she was our superintendent of real estate, and I know this. I know that this is uh dominating her thoughts and her entire um uh department there at the division. Uh and they're gonna get it corrected, and uh and they're gonna take it one at a time and and they'll get it done. It's long overdue. I mean, it's hard to imagine, and you know, here we are in 2026 now, um, and we're just now going to an online service like this. So uh I speak to everybody, please be patient and let's work through this and let's work with the division of real estate, not against them.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

That that's a great message. Um, and at the end of the day, we're going to end up with a system that is completely online, which is what our brokers and licensees have been have been asking for for a long time. Decades. Um and so Ohio Realtors works very closely with with the Ohio Division of real estate. In fact, I think every every time I'm at a a meeting of Ohio Realtors, we we see Daphne there and she addresses the group and um keeps us up to speed with what's going on at the division. Um just in general, what you know, what role does Ohio Realtors play when it comes to the division and working with them and supporting our licensees and keeping communication clear?

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Well, that's a great question, and very specifically around this conversion that they're doing. Kyle Meister, who is our um lead tech uh IT person at Ohio Realtors, is working every day with the division of real estate, helping them work through their glitches and their hiccups and and all of that. So we are uh we understand as an association how important it is that the division get this right. And we're we're helping them with our resources, and you know it's it's that relationship's not a one-way relationship, and uh we're working really hard to help them do this. Um and we're here, right? And the faster we can get through these uh uh fixes, the everybody will be happier.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

Yeah, and it's so it's all hands-on death.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

It is, it is all hands-that's a great way to describe it.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

And um, you know, the real estate industry continues to change. I mean, we we we talk about this all the time, you know, looking back on you, you know, you mentioned some of the things that have happened over the last five years, but um, you know, if you're keeping up with with some of the um the consolidation that's happening in the industry and and the way that um rules and regulations are changing and policy, um, it it's increasingly more and more rapid ever it seems like every week, um whether it's technology or consumer expectations. How does Ohio Realtors helping members to stay prepared, uh to see what's coming up ahead so that that members can uh can can thrive with changes that may be coming ahead that we haven't seen yet?

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Yeah, it's it's important to note that Ohio Realtors is your professional partner. And I say your, I mean yours as the broker, yours as the member, you're the salesperson, yours as uh the Akron Cleveland Association of Realtors, right? I mean, as the locals that we have 30 locals, around 31 locals around the state, and uh and we are the partner uh with that. And you know, predicting these changes is is hard. And uh you say consolidation, it's happening not just in the brokerage world, in the the real estate franchises and and all that, it's happening in the local associations, it's happening with the MLSs, and you know, it's we're a free market society, and that's what we do. And uh we're realtors, we're flexible, we we understand change, and uh we think on our feet, and and we're good at we're good navigators.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

And extremely resilient. I mean, yeah the way that that business is done and uh the the the real estate industry that that I uh came into some 24 years ago here at the association is so much different than it is uh now, and I've seen realtors adapt uh over time to so many different changes, and I know they will with whatever's coming down the pike, and I know that uh whether it's ACAR, Ohio Realtors, the National Association of Realtors, we're we're all there to uh to help our members through it.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yeah, we uh my father started selling real estate in 1963, and if you just think about that date, uh it was five years before fair housing, right, uh was law. And uh so to go from that to navigating uh uh a fair housing world in real estate, which was the best thing that's happened in the last hundred years to real estate, um, but also, you know, I grew up um in with both my parents being brokers and watching them handwrite contracts with carbon paper in between the copies and then getting in their car and driving the offers over to the other agent. And then wow, here comes the fax machine, and uh here comes a lockbox. You used to have to drive to get a key. I mean, it was so to think about in the last 40 years of uh, you know, how everything has evolved in this business, and I personally think all for the better. I really do. I think um, you know, uh I I fought tooth and nail. I did not want to go paperless uh because I'm a creature of habit like anybody else. I wouldn't even dream to have a paper file now of anything because of the platforms that we use to do our transactions. And I just think it's awesome, you know, to to be able to do transactions with uh a seller where one might be in San Francisco and the other might be doing a boys' weekend in Miami and you get an offer. You know, that used to just put everything on hold until everybody got home. Now we can do it like they're here, like they're standing right in front of me. It's it's amazing how we can do business.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

It it is. And so here we are going into 2026. Um, you're about to be the president of Ohio Realtors, and you have an audience today with with uh with ACAR members and and our listeners who are uh interested in in real estate. What is uh what's one thing that you would like every Ohio realtor to know uh from you um to to make them feel a little more confident um heading into 2026?

SPEAKER_01 31:01

That's a great question, Mike, and I appreciate you asking uh me that uh specific question because uh number one, I think real estate uh as a practice, as a um as a business might be the greatest opportunity that America holds for a small business owner who wants to be their own boss, be an entrepreneur. You know, we we see all sorts of examples of of you know somebody coming into the business and doing all the work by themselves because they love and and and do that. Two very talented teams that have figured out what leverage looks like to be able to grow their teams to doing 500 transactions a year. And I mean it's just crazy to think of how they can do that. But you know, remember that um this opportunity is is the greatest one out there, and to have associations like Akron Cleveland, like Ohio Realtors, like the National Association of Realtors, to help us do it in a professional and ethical way and to keep an eye out. I love that most of our advocacy, most, and I mean 95% of our advocacy isn't for us. It's for our clients. And and that's we're we give back, we're hard workers, we give back, we fix problems, and uh and and I think everybody out there should be very proud to fly the realtor flag uh and tell people that they're realtors.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Very well said, and and I think when our members hear that, they will be very proud to have you serving as their president in in 2026. You you speak very well for the industry, for our members, and uh I know I'm certainly a lot more uh more confident headed into the year with with you at the home at the state. Um this we call this the home for all podcast. Yeah. Hashtag home for all is the uh uh you know the kind of the rally cry that we use to talk about all the work that we do in the community uh with with our advocacy efforts, uh with the consumer, with education, and so on. Um so I'm I'm curious, and this is something that we we uh ask all of our our guests, what does home for all mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 33:37

I think it's a very pointed question at at the exact right time. I mean, NAR uh National Association of Realtors just released their home buying stats for 2024-25, and the average first-time homebuyer is 40 years old. That is a crazy old number. And um you know, I have two daughters, one is 25 and one is 24, and neither are homeowners yet. And I had already been a homeowner for three years by the time I was that age. Um let's not forget those first-time home buyers, and let's not forget that we have a job to educate them as to the value of homeownership and what it can do to your net worth. Uh, you know, the typical homeowner in the country uh has a net worth that is 45 times that of the average renter, and that is just a staggering number that seems to be lost, and nobody's really talking about it much anymore. Um and I understand that interest rates they say interest rates are high. I've been doing this long enough to know that 6% interest rate is not a high interest rate. Um I just think the priorities are put in different places for this particular generation that's coming up, including my daughters. And uh, but if um you know for every year they s they delay that first purchase, that's that's a year of appreciation that they're not gonna get.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

They'll never so many people have built wealth in this country build wealth in this country, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

You do that or you play the$1.3 billion superlato, and you know, I mean, or or you start a small business. I mean, there's a lot of ways to build wealth, but the number one way, without a doubt, probably 90% of all millionaires in the United States have made their money through real estate.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Absolutely. Um, and so ending on that note, um, which which is a uh a fantastic place to kind of wrap up this conversation, I really want to thank you again uh for making the trip up here to Northeast Ohio, for uh sitting down with us, taking some time to speak with our members. I'm sure that everyone got a lot out of this discussion. Um but but for now, Mick, if our listeners would like to reach out to you, what's the best way for them to do that?

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Uh my email address is uh Gordon G-O-R-D-O-N at ohioaltors.org. Uh and my cell number is 614-774-9097. Uh certainly not afraid to give that out. We'd love to hear from them.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Well, that's great. Uh, we'll also link your contact info in the show notes. Um and thank you so much for being here and for doing this. Uh, with that, I'll hand things back over to Kelly to wrap it up.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Thanks, Mike.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Well, that's perfect. Thank you both so much for being here today. It was a great conversation. Um I I was taking copious notes for other things that were coming that are, you know, awesome topics that we can actually address this year in the podcast. So if you're listening, keep an keep an ear open for that. So, well, that is what we've got for you for today's episode. We are so glad to be back for this new season, and we have more great programming headed your way. So be sure to come back. If you loved what you heard today, please do us a favor and share it on your social channels and tag us while you're there. One main way the podcast grows is by you sharing it with others. And that means every time you do that, you're helping us and hopefully helping another member at the same time. We appreciate you and hope that everyone out there has a fantastic day. And until we meet again, I hope you're finding your very own meaning of home for all.