Adventurous Polyamory
Adventurous Polyamory
Welcome A New Voice!
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This time we met our new co-host! And talk about bad communication!
Hello, and welcome to Adventurous Polyamory, the podcast where we rip off the shrink wrap and get into the messy reality of our lifestyle. I'm Rachel Barth, your hostess with The Mostist, and I'm here to open up a big old can of truth and honesty about the joys and pitfalls of polyamory. And now I would like to introduce my new co-host, Essie. She has been my friend and sounding board for many years. We need a blast of fresh air around here, and so we are extremely happy to have Essie on board. Say hello, Essie.
SPEAKER_01Hi! I'm so happy to be here and be that blast of fresh air.
SPEAKER_04Okay, so without further ado, do you remember that I had been approached by a guy who was like super young, super, super inappropriately young. Yes. Um and he was really nice. He came to the munch, right? Oh yes. You remember that guy? Yes, I do. Um and he was really nice. Yes, wasn't he fine? So, like, you don't, I mean, you can't really blame me for wanting to just I don't know, get a look at that.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Um, so we had gone on one date, uh, but it wasn't the first time we had gotten together, so I didn't count it as our first date, which is just my way, my long-form way of justifying the fact that I, in fact, hopped in the sack with him after that date.
SPEAKER_05Wow.
SPEAKER_04Well, you know that normally I'm very strongly opposed to getting together with a guy on the first date. Because it is my opinion that you're losing crucial data if you do that. Well, there's that. Um, but he and I have been chatting for a while, and we had already seen each other other places, and I was like, okay, fine, I'm doing it.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_04Well, of course, it was the wrong decision. Because, of course, then immediately the very next day, I never heard from him again.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_04Yes, he he just vanished. Um, and so then like a week or more had passed, and I actually had him on my calendar for an appointment for a massage.
SPEAKER_05Wow.
SPEAKER_02So I text him and I'm like, You're losing control of your I'm losing control of my lungs. Okay. I'm sorry, no more combos, Tessie. Etsy is losing control of her features.
unknownOkay, I'm back.
SPEAKER_04Um and I text him, I'm like, okay, I'm confirming for the appointment, and then like he didn't answer, and I was like, oh wow, okay, I I guess we're really, really done. And then, like, two days later, I heard from him on fat.
SPEAKER_03And he says, Hey, I didn't mean to ghost you or anything. I just got into a monogamous relationship soon after I went out with you. Sorry I didn't communicate that well. Wait, two days later?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, after after his appointment that he should have gone to was already passed, then he texts me on fat, not even on my phone.
SPEAKER_03And he says, hey, I didn't mean to ghost you. You didn't mean to ghost me? What, were your fingers broken?
SPEAKER_01Wait, wait, wait, okay. Time of jumping into bed to time of in the monogamous relationship. How how what's the time span there? Well, it must have been 15 or 20 minutes because he didn't even text me the next day.
SPEAKER_02Like, he was gone with the women. And I was like, this is what you get for breaking your rules, Rachel. You know you're not ever supposed to sleep with a guy on a first date, and you did it, and this is what happened.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, no. Don't internalize that. No, it's true. It's true. I broke my rules.
SPEAKER_04It never works out for me. If I break these are not rules that other people have given me, it's not from like a book. This is a rule I have for myself.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_04I don't sleep with a guy on the first date because while you went out with him and then he's still waiting to see if he can get into your uh garments, right? You're gonna learn something about who he is. Right. Right? Is he just gonna be a douche? Is he gonna be like, nah, she's too much work, I'm giving up. Right? Is he gonna give up? Is he gonna try harder? Is he gonna be resentful or make any kind of remarks? Like, you'll learn something about who he is between the first date and the time when you eventually decide that you're ready to hop on it. Right. Uh, but I did not follow my own rule, and as usual, it did not work out. Wow. It never it never works out for me. If I break any of my rules, it never works out for me.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it's like you had the extenuating circumstances of having had, you know, quite a bit of texting and everything. Right. I mean, it's not like he didn't know he was moving towards something. Apparently.
SPEAKER_04Well, but what was funny to me was how he acted like somehow he was not in control of a monogamous relationship. Just I didn't mean to ghost you. You didn't mean to ghost me? Sorry, I take leave to tell you that you clearly did mean to ghost me because in fact, ghosting me is what you did.
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, he was he he didn't mean to fall in love in the two days that he left you hanging. It w one day. So one day.
SPEAKER_04So like we were in Wait, we went out on it was like a it was like a Tuesday or a Wednesday. Okay. And then I don't know why I'm acting like I don't know this timeline. I could actually I know, but we have to examine the facts of the case. I could be a real polyamorous person and actually just look at my schedule. Right. That's probably colorful. There, there we are. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03The record will show.
SPEAKER_04That I went out with this guy on Monday, June 8th.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_04So Monday, June 8th, we go out. We went to Han's spot and had dim sum, and it was fucking delicious, as you know. Right. Um, and we had a great conversation. Like everything about the date was nice. Right. And the sex was okay.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04There was things that could have been improved. Right. All right.
SPEAKER_01Which can happen, you know, when you jump in the first time.
SPEAKER_04So, okay, eight so then the appointment would have been the 30th. June 30th. So between June 8th and June 30th, complete radio silence.
SPEAKER_01Okay, wait a minute. And what was the appointment for? A massage. With you? Yeah. Okay. Radio silence for well now. This is a little more like a month.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So I didn't hear shit from him for a whole entire month. The next day I had texted him, or maybe within a couple of days of that, I had texted him just something casual. Um, because, you know, I have manners. Um, but he did not reply to that. So a month has gone by during which he is not only dating another person, but also literally did not even say hello to me.
SPEAKER_01Right, like like we could have another conversation about courtesy, post-coital courtesy.
SPEAKER_04Right? Like, it's cool that you're dating other people, and obviously I don't have the slightest intention of trying to own you like a like a dog from the pound. Like, I'm not at that stage of life. The last thing I want is to have like a really intense, close connection with someone who's, not to put too fine a point on it, younger than my youngest child. Right. Like, we were never gonna have anything other than something casual. So you could just calm your debts there, buddy. Okay. So, but he's as so now it's a month later where he's on FET and he's like, I didn't mean to ghost you or anything.
SPEAKER_03I just got into a monogamous relationship. Sorry, I didn't communicate that well. No, sir, you did not communicate. That was a horrible communication.
SPEAKER_04You didn't even say, Hey, I had a great time last night.
SPEAKER_01See, this is like I'm going back to like the day after, or even that night. There was nothing.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. Like, he even uh unless you left my house and then went to Vegas with a woman that night. No, there's still really no excuse for it. Like there's no excuse for it. You should have like contacted me just to say I had a great time.
SPEAKER_01I had a great time, thank you. Thank you for inviting me to your home. Thank you for I don't know anything. Thank you for being patient with my dick issues. Right. So, okay, so do you think there was a shame element? Perhaps he was I don't know.
SPEAKER_04I was thinking that maybe that was it. It's unusual to have dick issues in one so young. And I mean, I still had a really good time. He was creative and fun and all that, and like I didn't feel like there was anything going on that was insurmountable. So, like, I would aside from the communication issues, right, like I would have been willing to revisit the hydraulics issues, if we may delicately refer to it in this video. Right. Um right, I would have been interested in working on the technical issues with him because overall the experience physically was very fun, but I'm very hesitant to put much work in on someone who is this bad of a communicator. Well, it's not okay with me, and I'm not here to I'm not your mom. I'm not here to tell you how to act right.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I mean, clearly on day one or day two, where he didn't even reach out to say anything, like even I'm home or something. Right, I'll talk to you soon. Something right there. I feel like right there it already was gone right into the dumpster. Kids, how do you come back from that? 24 days later, oh 6 to the 30th? Didn't mean to. Didn't mean to. I was busy uh exploring a monogamous relationship with someone and kind of fell into. Do we want to talk about that? Like when do we let somebody know that we are also exploring something else that would preclude further involvement, right? If he had been exploring a poly relationship, he might have still been able to continue to see you during that time. But because he was on that monogamous path, that meant that once he stepped on that escalator, right? He was he was on it. And he couldn't even think like to be courteous to you to let you know, like I've stepped I've stepped on that escalator and you're still down on the first floor. I've stepped on that escalator and you're still down on the first floor of the mall. So Okay, first of all, let's just assume he had been respectful and said, hey, thanks so much for everything. When would have been a good time for him to let you know that he was exploring something that if he was gonna be monogamous, that is gonna be a a door shut on anything with you, most likely.
SPEAKER_04I don't a hundred percent feel that he has to tell me anything other than like he could be s you could be he could be super vague about it and just be like, you know, I've really enjoyed all the fun we've had together. The rhythm of my life has changed, and I'm not gonna be able to hang out with you anymore right now. Um or he could be super honest and he could be like, okay, you know, I really enjoyed the time we hung out together, uh, but I met someone who is interested in a monogamous relationship, and I'm really feeling that. So unfortunately, that means I won't be able to come over and do hot things with you. Like and just you know, maybe just so like I wouldn't have to have that thing that happened when someone never talks to you again, and you're just like, I hope I didn't do something that hurt that guy's feelings, right?
SPEAKER_01Right, exactly. Yeah. Because I mean, some people would say you are not obligated to share anything about your life. Like, no, all you get to know about me is what is between the two of us, and what I do outside of our time together is is personal. So maybe, like, when is that established? When is that dynamic? Like, we're we're gonna enjoy each other's company here, but we don't talk about like is that something that just evolves over time, or is there a point where that becomes an agreement if you're gonna keep seeing the person maybe more than the one time?
SPEAKER_04Well, I mean, you know, I'm let me uh stroke my imaginary intellectual guy beard here. There's no Essie. I personally consider myself to be like a relationship anarchist in that I'm not a big fan of spending too much personal energy on labeling or compartmentalizing relationships. Because I've seen I've seen other people absolutely go down in flames like the Hindenburg over this issue. Uh, and I've even seen in my own life, right, the beliefs that I had about a relationship, the labels that I put on it, obstructed my ability to see the reality of the relationship and caused me extensive amounts of of heartbreak and weeping, which literally could have been avoided if at some point I could have let go of these um assumptions and thoughts and ideas that I had in my head and just look at this relationship clearly, it would have been pretty easy to see that that person actually really was not in love with me anymore and didn't really care about my happiness or any of that stuff. And and actually I would also have been able to see very clearly that I also did not love that person anymore and did not care about their happiness and actually would have been effing thrilled if they would have just packed their shit and left. Right. But because I had all these words sort of taped up all over the edge of the picture, the words themselves obscured reality.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so now I am very out of love with the whole idea of those words. Um, so now that I made a whole speech, getting back to this idea of like when does our relationship become the kind of relationship where we do talk to each other? Uh the answer is it's gonna happen when it happens. Right? Like, many people love to talk about stuff like that. You like to talk about stuff like that. I do that. I really do. Right? If you and I were dating, that would be two minutes after we started dating. Where do you see this going? Right? Like some people love that kind of talk. Right. And other people don't, right? Isaiah is, you know, a legend in my life at this point now because I mean we're heading into year six at this point.
SPEAKER_01No way.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Where does the time go? Where does the time go? It's been. This year will be our sixth anniversary, I believe. Um, and we literally never, we never talk about our relationship.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_04Um, I was thinking about this the other day. One time I forgot myself and told him that I loved him. But he's never said that he loves me. And but it was classic, okay. I lost control of myself because he had cooked the most incredible meal. It was fried chicken with Caesar salad topping on homemade garlic pretzel rolls. Oh yeah, it's every bit as good as it sounded. And it was so good that I literally lost control of myself at the table and was just like, oh my god, I love you so much right now. Okay, but you qualified it with right now. Um, but there was just kind of like a moment of awkward silence, and then we just moved on. And then you wouldn't. He did not even be like, I love you too, babe, and that's why I made you this sandwich. Right. No, no, right. None of that. That is not that is not how he rolls. But we did have one extremely romantic conversation. It was romantic by our standards. I don't remember what I was thinking. I was thinking about like when you get really old and all the other people in your life get really old, and and I don't I just don't even remember what I was thinking, but I had texted him and it was something like when you're 70, I'll be 93. You know. Right. And he replied, and we will have old people smooches.
SPEAKER_02Oh exactly, and I was like, that was the best thing ever.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Just, you know. Yes. And we will have old people smooches. Seven words, something like that? Seven words. One concise sentence. He said, yes, we will be very old, but I have every intention of being there to kiss your wrinkly old ass. And I was like, that's the sweetest thing anyone's ever thought to read.
SPEAKER_01I mean, that's a lifetime commitment right there.
SPEAKER_04It's always like, all right.
SPEAKER_01In seven words.
SPEAKER_04Alright, alright. But this is, I mean, this is what I mean.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04After six years, that's it. That's the closest we'll get. Right. But again, after all the experiences I've had with other people that had all kinds of nice things to say, and then it didn't mean shit.
SPEAKER_01Right. Right? So Right. You had all the sticky notes, like you said, all around the edges like of your computer. And this this person is just like one sticky note of seven words. One sticky note.
SPEAKER_04That's it. That's it.
SPEAKER_01That counts for so much more you just rip all those other sticky notes off.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. So at I'm a little I'm I'm quite leery of protestations of love. And I'm also quite leery of the sensation that I owe you something. I don't like feeling that way anymore.
SPEAKER_01Right. You mean like if somebody says I love you, you feel like there's uh an expectation back?
SPEAKER_04No, but like, I don't know, if you remember what it's like when we in the long ago days when we were married. Yes. Right. When you're married to someone, you have you do have those obligations toward them, or it feels like you do. Right? They have you feel obligated to to ask them about the schedule. Right? And, you know, married men always come in for mockery for that. I gotta ask my wife if I can go out on the weekend. Right, right, right. Which on the one hand is like gross because nobody should be in charge of your schedule. But on the other hand, it's not gross. It's appropriate because you're, as a married person, you're part of a functioning team. Right. Right? It's like it's like if you were uh if you were working. You can't just not show up to work. The other people at your job depend on you to be there and do your job. True. So you don't have to go to work, but if you don't, everyone will discover very quickly that you're an undependable wastrel and you'll probably not have that job that much longer. And I think marriage is kind of that same way. Like, you do have obligations, you have responsibilities, and this is appropriate, and there's nothing wrong with that. But it can also be kind of a shackle, it can be like a torture cage that you can't get out of unless the other person's really trying as hard as you are. So now, as um, you know, as like a solo poly person, an anarchist, I very much resist any feeling of obligation. So, like when I'm doing scheduling with people, I don't tell them why I can't see them on such a day. And I say, well, when can we get together? And I don't say, well, I have this date and that date and this date and that I don't tell them anything. I say Friday, July 17th is my earliest opening.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_04And if they say wow, then I say, yes, I'm really busy.
SPEAKER_01Or whatever, like so once some something or someone is on your calendar, is that it? It's set in stone, or would you reschedule because you wanted to see the new guy? No. Or whatever.
SPEAKER_04I would. Uh early on, I think one of the things, the differences between a new relationship and an old relationship is the level of touchiness around scheduling.
SPEAKER_05Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04Right? Like when Kathy and I were seeing each other all the time, she was touchy as hell about scheduling. But she became noticeably less touchy about it when she was seeing Arian really regularly. May he rest in peace. Um then all of a sudden, She did want to reschedule sometimes. Um, and you know, I had one voice inside of me was like, Oh, sure, now you're not touchy. But the more sensible part of me was like, but this is growth, right? Right? This is appropriate. She's understanding now that sometimes you just want to reschedule, and that that's just a thing that people do. It's not a personal thing, it's nothing personal, and like, you know. Anyway, yeah, sometimes like if like if I don't know, John wants to go to a concert on a Saturday, then I'll just reschedule John and Isaiah. I'll flip them around.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_04It's not as easy now because Isaiah works nights. Um but I actually also work less now too, so like I can reschedule John to a weeknight sometimes if I need to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that gives you some flexibility. I I and I mean I think that goes to the topic of of scarcity. You know, it when when time is scarce, suddenly you have to prioritize what you're going to do in that time. And a person can feel like a commodity if they are rescheduled too many times. Lied then. Right? Like the message is kind of like, wait a minute.
SPEAKER_04I'm I'm putting you at the bottom of my priority list.
SPEAKER_01Right. Like I could see how it could start out at first, like everybody's easygoing, but if it happens too many times or always to the one person and not the other over time, depending on the people involved. Oh, that's a clear message right there, exactly.
SPEAKER_04That's a very clear message. But to return to my like guy here, right? Um, he doesn't owe me any explanations, and I wouldn't need more explanation. Um, but I can see how someone else might want more. Like, I I don't think he owes me, he would owe any explanation that he's dating other people. Because it isn't as if he and I had had some kind of deep conversation about oh, we're together now, right? Right. We're not together. We had we went on like one date. Right. Right. We're not we're not together. I don't owe him anything, and he also doesn't owe me anything. But at the point that he's entering into an monogamous relationship, I mean I don't need you to tell me your whole life story, but it's probably polite for you to just tell me that like we're just friends now.
SPEAKER_01Or whatever. You know? Tell me something. I I'm gonna say that if you follow the burn haystack method, like not being in touch the next day, yeah. I mean that's a bit a block to burn right there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, it's kind of it's kind of a block. It's kind of a block to burn. But wait, I didn't even tell you the rest of the conversation. Wait, there's more? Yes, there is. So I he says, you know, I'm sorry I didn't communicate that well. Blah, blah, blah. And I said, Well, I hope that will be a good situation for you. Thanks for letting me know. Because, you know, I was trying to be a mature adult. And he says, Nah, it's over now, LMAO. It's already over. And I said, LMAO, oh, oh, oh, oh, that was fast. And he says, yeah, trusted someone I shouldn't have. And then he says, I'm sorry, what was your number again? Wait, he didn't even have you in his he had my number and everything. I don't know what could have happened there. So I thought about it for a minute, and I did actually give him my number again because I'm insane. But then I said, damn, you really blocked and deleted me? Rough. Holy mole. So then what? Well, then nothing. You never heard from him, even when you gave him the number. Well, he texted me on my number, and he I think at that point he saw that I had tried to text him about the disappointment.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_04And he was like, sorry, my bad. Oh, so much depth.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, wow, okay.
SPEAKER_01Wow, that rips your heart apart, that level of commitment and sadness, and oh man, what a superior human. Wow.
SPEAKER_04So, yes, well, good talk. I'm getting this distinct impression that my original impression is correct. I don't really feel like that man deserves to hit it again. I'm gonna say no. I'm gonna say no to that. Yeah. I'm sorry, you're not the only incredibly good-looking young man who's sarging into my inbox and I just cannot believe he gave up such an incredible opportunity to be with you. You are a goddess. Well, I mean, who knows? The other person could have worked out, but that was so crazy.
SPEAKER_01Like no, the other person was not gonna work out because he probably didn't return that person's text either. I want to be in a monogamous relationship with you, but I'm not gonna bother to text you back. Well, in fact, I I have to reach out to you on FetLife because I I somehow deleted your number. What a loser.
SPEAKER_04I still have numbers of dates I went on 10 years ago. They're still in my phone.
SPEAKER_01See, this is a difference in personalities. Really?
SPEAKER_04All right. Time's passing on, so we are gonna have to draw this conversation to a close, my darling.
SPEAKER_01Aw. But we'll be back because there's so much meat in this topic. There's plenty more to talk about.
SPEAKER_04Well, yeah, there's never-ending chain of ridiculous things people do. All right, yeah. So thank you for listening. Do you have any topics you would like to hear about on this podcast? Please get in touch with us at unlimitedheartcoaching at gmail.com. We have big changes coming for the podcast, so we'll probably have new contact information in the future, but that's what we have now. You can also find me on Instagram at practicing polycommunity. Drop me a DM, I will answer. And on that night, good night. Good night.