Pride Edition: Bridging the gap between the LGBTQIA+ community and the disabled/chronically ill community - Part 1

In part one of the second interview for The Politics of Disability Pride series, Mary sits down with Season 5, All Stars 2 contestant of RuPaul's Drag Race, Detox.

The two discuss what it will take to bridge the gap between the LGBTQIA+ community and the disabled/chronically ill community, advocacy, anti-trans legislation, and more.

Episode content warning: Mentions of ableism, mild adult language

The Politics of Disability was named Best Interview Podcast at the Astoria Film Festival in both October 2022 and again in June 2023.

Transcript

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Mary (00:07): [music playing as Mary speaks]

Hello everyone and welcome to season 2 of the award-winning podcast The Politics of Disability. My name is Mary Fashik.

I am your host and founder of the Disability Justice movement Upgrade Accessibility. We’re still navigating that bumpy road, but there are lots of potholes along the way.

You’ll want to make sure you’re buckled up really tight. All set? Here we go.

Hello everyone and welcome to this very special Pride edition of The Politics of Disability. I want to welcome my extra special guest today. Would you please introduce yourself to the audience?

Detox (01:05): Hi everyone. My name is Detox and you may know me from a little reality television show called RuPaul's Drag Race. Um, and I'm very happy to be here. Thank you for having me, Mary.

Mary (01:20): Thank you so much for doing this. Um, anyone who is listening, who knows me, knows how much I am fangirling in this moment.

Detox (01:30): [laughs]

Mary (01:31): Um, and you have a lot of fans in the disabled and chronically ill community. I just want you to know that, that you have so many fans in our community. I want, speaking of disability and I wanna talk about how most disabled... non-disabled people have had little to no interaction with disabled individuals. Growing up, were you around disabled kids? Like has, how has your perception of disability changed over the years or has it?

Detox (02:14): Well, you know, I I was born in Orlando, Florida and my father at the time worked for Lockheed Martin, so we moved around quite a lot. And so I was able to, um, experience growing up all over the country and, and all different sorts of education systems and, um, and also being a chronically ill kid. I had very severe asthma when I was younger and was allergic to everything and was in and out of the hospital, um, for like the majority of my young childhood. And so a lot of, a lot of my memories are from being in hospital wings for, you know, weeks on end. Um, and so I think that allowed me a lot of access to meet disabled people and to meet other disabled kids. Um, and then a lot of my schools as well had obviously students that were disabled and you know, I feel like when you're young there's still so much innocence and that, like you really, I never really, um, looked at kids with disabilities any differently than I would anyone else.

(03:23): But that's also because I was an outsider as well, being sick all the time, knowing that I was queer at a young age, not necessarily realizing what queerness was, but definitely knowing that I was different and, um, you know, colored outside the lines and [laughs] and walked to my, the own beat of my own drum. And I think that, um, that kind of connects kids in a certain, in a certain way. So you don't necessarily see, um, a lot of those differences as clear until you get older. Especially, you know, once hormones start happening and puberty starts kicking in and, and, and children start becoming, I don't wanna really curse a lot, but when children start becoming assholes, [laughs], you definitely see a bigger separation between, um, the disabled and the non-disabled communities, which is, you know, a sad thing. But I never, um, I feel like I'm such a people pleaser and I'm such a, you know, a people person that I was just always trying to befriend everybody because it was hard for me to find friends.

Mary (04:37): And you're right, kids are assholes. Um...

Detox (04:41): [laughs]

Mary (04:42): They are. That is something that I have experienced here in my apartment complex. They don't understand disability, so it's easier for them to make fun of it. And you know, one of the things that the disabled community always says is, "Oh, teach your kids about disabilities." But what I have realized is it starts with the parents. If the parents don't understand disability, how are they going to teach their children about disability?

Detox (05:22): Mm-hmm. [affirmative]

Mary (05:22): So being that you kind of had one foot in the non-disabled world and one foot in your disabled world, I think you were at some almost like an advantage that you understood what it meant to be both of those things. And when we talk about that, you know, there's a huge intersection between the disabled and chronically ill community and the LGBTQIA plus community, yet the disabled and chronically ill community, is excluded from vital conversations.

(06:05): When we talk about marriage equality, we don't talk about the disabled community. When we talk about trans rights, we don't talk about disabled trans individuals. Why do you think that continues to happen? Even when we're talking about all of these anti-trans bills, anti-drag bills, um, there are disabled trans people, there are disabled drag artists.

Detox (06:35): Mm-hmm. [affirmative]

Mary (06:35): But they're not being talked about. And I find that those who are in the spotlight, who have the most privilege are the ones who are leaving us out of this conversation. And I do wanna point out, and I will not be the advocate I am if I do not point this out, disabled individuals, if we marry a partner, we lose our benefits.

Detox (07:07): Mm-hmm. [affirmative]

Mary (07:08): Which, most non-disabled people don't know that. So although I may have married equality as a queer person, I do not have married equality as a disabled individual. So why do you think we're left out of, especially right now, with all the conversations going on, I live in Georgia, the anti-trans bill, they want to check people, um, to see if they're autistic, to prevent gender-affirming care. They are weaponizing disability for their anti-transness, but yet no one's talking about this.

Detox (07:57): I feel like it's a difficult conversation for people who are not in that world to have because they're afraid to speak wrong, especially people that are in our community. Like, you know, we could eloquently discuss our, our problems and our inequalities, um, that is specific to our journeys and to our existence. But it's difficult to, you know, vocalize or speak out for people who were not in that same, in the same boat. And I think that people are usually afraid, especially in the political climate that we're dealing with, and especially with, um, you know, everyone being so concerned about being canceled, of saying the wrong thing. So instead of doing anything, um, or saying anything, they just decide to leave that out. Or they're just too self-centered [laughs] to talk about their own issues because they have, you know, in their world and their little bubbles, you know, it's a, it's an umbrella kind of thing that we're dealing with. And they think that everyone in the LGBTQIA plus community will be, you know, reaping whatever benefits or dealing with the same kind of hardships. But it's difficult for us to, to

(09:18): really give a microphone to people like yourself, which is why I think that the work that you do is so amazing. I think that's why, um, clearly every time that we've had a conversation or you let me know the new amazing things that you're doing and how much you're being celebrated and uplifted, I think that's great. We need to find more people like you and let them have a spotlight so they can help us better understand what they need from our community as well. Because, um, you know, if we're not, somebody said this recently at one of the marches that I was at that, that I really loved. Um, and it is that there is no community without unity. So we need to help people that are in our community that don't necessarily align with our same struggles and give them a platform. And that's why I think whatev... everything that you're doing is so amazing and I'm such a huge fan of the work that you're doing. It's incredible. And I just thrilled for all of your success in your world of advocacy.

Mary (10:15): Well, I thank...

Detox (10:15): But we also need to have more people who have a voice like you to be able to feel confident enough and supported enough to, to step up.

Mary (10:24): Well, I thank you so much for that. And I'm doing it for my community. I want to make sure that when I am in my seventies, I'm still not fighting for the same rights that I was in my forties. And it's interesting what you say about there's no community without unity, because one of the things that we say in the disabled community is nothing about us without us.

Detox (10:56): Mm-hmm. [affirmative]

Mary (10:57): So it's the same sentiment. What do you think is gonna take to bridge our communities? Because there is, again, a huge intersection. What's it gonna take for us to not be, you know, like for those that have a platform to be like, "Hey, I want to include queer disabled people in this. I want to include trans disabled people in this." What do you think it's gonna take to bridge that gap there?

Detox (11:35): Well, I think what you're doing is really great at bridging that gap because you've, you've opened my eyes to a lot of the struggles with the disabled LGBTQIA plus community. And I think that that's a really great thing to continue to do. Inviting people like myself who have different platforms, who walk different experiences in life to better understand you and your community and your struggles and what we can do together to, to introduce the rest of the people to this, you know, and also, you know, we've talked about this before, having the accessibility to be able to, to do events, whether they be digital or in person, um, to help, again, uplift your voice in a way and get your voice to an audience that may not find you otherwise.

Mary (12:32): Um, and you talk about the march you went to, you went to a march this week in Tallahassee.

Detox (12:39): Mm-hmm. [affirmative]

Mary (12:39): Um, drag is not a crime. It is not. I am currently wearing a black shirt with a bunch of drag queens on it that says, "Defend drag." Um, drag is not a crime. Um, talk to me about your advocacy and comfortable, as you are talking about your advocacy, going back to, um, getting... making sure that Pulse became what is now after the horrific shooting. Talk to me. I I know you are a strong advocate. Talk to me about your advocacy. What, what drives it, what fuels it? What keeps you going when life is just really crappy.

Detox (13:33): [laughs] And life is very crappy all the time. And I know that, you know, times seem extremely dire right now with everything that's going against our community. Um, but the reality is, is that, I mean, I feel like a lot of us realize this and understand it, that a big part of why we're being attacked so much right now is to detract everyone and to distract everybody from everything that, you know, all of the bigger issues that are going on in the country. Like our terrible education system, gun reform, housing crisis, um, you know, there's, there's so many other things that should be addressed that, that especially the Republicans and the GOP don't want to address because, um, there are, there are scarier things out there like trans people and queer people and you know, things that aren't putting money in their pockets.

Mary (14:28): And disabled people also.

Detox (14:29): And disabled people.

Mary (14:31): Because they want, uh, they want to rewrite the ADA and basically make it nothing. They want to take. They want to, um, basically make sure that the Americans with Disabilities Act has no weight to it as well.

Detox (14:48): Mm-hmm. [affirmative]

Mary (14:49): So add that into everything else. Go ahead. Sorry. Didn't mean to interrupt you.

Detox (14:56): No, please do. Because you know, again, I'm, I'm, I'm not a member of that community. So the more I am learning about it, the more I'm told about it, the more you're speaking up and letting me know the better because it's getting your point across to me. Hopefully my listeners or my viewers that are gonna be listening to this will hear something that they haven't heard and, and realize that there's, again, we can't do anything for our community if we're not doing it as a, as a collectible unit. Um, but I think my advocacy, cuz I had never really consider myself an advocate [laughs], I just consider myself a, a self-preservationist and also a, a pillar of my community that has a platform. So I should be using it for some kind of good, whether it's, it's just speaking up and, um, and, and existing in a way that is authentic and as loud as possible.

(15:55): Just so, um, I could be some kind of a, a pillar of light for people who are like me who never saw a way out. Cuz that was very much me when I was young. I never saw anyone like myself. I didn't have the kind of, um, you know, role models to, to make me feel like everything was okay. And, um, and everything is okay, even though it seems like a shit show right now. Like the more [laughs] just living honestly existing and surviving is a form of advocacy in our, in our community, I feel. Um, and being able to use my voice in a way that's uplifting people and making people feel good about themselves and making people happy and making people want to use their voice and come together and be proud. And especially with everything that's going on with so many attacks against our community, it's like we have to be as loud and as proud and vocal about our existence because they're really trying to eradicate us as individuals.

Mary (16:58): Um, they want, they want to eradicate anyone who is not white, CIS gender, male

Detox (17:06): Christian, male...

Mary (17:08): Christian, non-disabled. They want to, I mean, I don't know if you have seen this in the news lately, but there's this new procedure going around called leg lengthening to make you taller. And what that will do is eradicate, um, it will eradicate, you know, little people, um, around the world. Like, they're trying to era a whole population of a disabled community and like, I'm like, we need to talk about this. We need to talk about that The Supreme Court is gonna hear a case in September that says, me as an individual, as a disabled person, if I find somewhere that is inaccessible, I no longer have the right to file a civil suit and, and, and as a disabled person. So they are trying to eradicate anything that is not like them. And that is scary. And one thing I always say is that existing is exhausting.

Detox (18:30): Mm-hmm. [affirmative]

Mary (18:30): And I'm sure you can agree with, with me on that. Existing is hard. [laughs]

Detox (18:37): Absolutely. Well, especially when you're having to not only fight your personal battles, but constantly feeling like you have to fight for the rest of your group because it's difficult and at least you know, people with platforms like yourself, myself, it is draining work. Um, but it's necessary work and it's work that we need to do together in order to make bigger and better strives to protect your community, our community, protect yourselves, protect myself. You know, it's interesting when I, when I hear these things and I, when I also, when I visit places and I see how inaccessible so many places are as opposed to when I go to like European countries where I see a lot more accessibility, a lot more help and assistance for disabled communities, a lot more like blending in of the communities with disabled and non-disabled people where it's much more like just a, a regular day [laughs] in the life. Like you don't really see as much division between the communities. And I think that that's beautiful. I I don't understand why we don't have that for a nation that's so free [laughs]. We don't have the same kind of things happening here.

Mary (19:50): It's only free for the privileged.

Detox (19:53): Exactly.

Mary (19:54): Um, I wanna... I'm gonna put you spot a minute. I'm gonna make a statement and then I want your reaction to said statement. You talk about like, Europe being more accessible to the disabled community. What is your reaction when I tell you that European countries, a lot of them, do not allow disabled people to immigrate to them.

Detox (20:26): What?!

Mary (20:27): Yes.

Detox (20:30): [laughs] What?

Mary (20:32): Yeah.

Detox (20:33): I had no idea.

Mary (20:34): So if I wanted to immigrate to one of those countries, I could not because I'm disabled.

Detox (20:42): And why, why is that? Is it because they have more accessibility for disabled people there and so they don't want to be like, have a, a quote unquote another burden to the, to....

Mary (20:55): Pretty much...

Detox (20:55): ...their economical system?

Mary (20:56): Yes, exactly. We will put more of a strain on their resources because we are seen as burdens.

Detox (21:06): Mm-hmm. [affirmative]

Mary (21:06): So you know that, so all of these people are like, oh, just pick up and move if you don't like it here. That is such a privileged statement.

Detox (21:16): 100%. Yeah. It's like, oh, okay. If I had that option then maybe I would've already done that. But clearly... [laughs]

Mary (21:26): Yeah. I...

Detox (21:26): That's easier said than done.

Mary (21:28): Yeah, much, much. And that is something that the disabled community, we say all the time, like, yeah, if I could pick up and just move, you know, to another country, great, but I can't because they don't want us there.

Detox (21:46): Mm-hmm. [affirmative]

Mary (21:46): And that is something that non-disabled people have no idea about. I do wanna ask something about the advocacy. I need to take notes from you because you are really good at like, taking time to rest and, and, and rejuvenate yourself.

Detox (22:08): Am I? [laughs]

Mary (22:09): You are! Because every time, listen, when you come back from a tour, you're like, "I'm on vacation for a week" or, or a couple weeks. And I'm like, how do I do that level of self-care because I suck at self-care?

Detox (22:27):Well that, I will say that is one thing that I am good at is self-care. Vacationing is, is, is a form of self-care. But I'm so like, I just got back from vacation with my friends and my sister in Mexico and I was there for like a week and a half, but the whole time it was also very much work and I'm still, you know, I, I was doing photo shoots and I was filming stuff for my new, my new supplement line. Um, and even though it was, it was fun. It was definitely not relaxing. Like I feel like I needed a vacation from the vacation, but I just went right back to work. You know, when you, um, doing what I do and, and being a workhorse, it is very difficult to take those times. That's why, that's why self-care is important.

(23:10): So even if it's just taking a two-hour bath and turning off the electronics and just putting on my music and, and doing a, a face mask and a scrub in the tub for two hours, [laughs], that to me is like a, a way of, um, cathartically unwinding and decompressing. And a lot of times that's all the time I have to do. But I think it's really important. And then also, you know, trying to pamper myself even if it's just laying in bed all day and watch, like catching up on television or watching my favorite movies.

Mary (23:44): Oh no, we aren’t done yet. Come back for part two to find out where this goes.

(23:44): [music playing while Mary speaks] Thank you for joining me for this episode of the Politics of Disability Podcast.

(23:44):

As you navigate your journey, remember: disability is political; disability is messy; disability is not palatable--nor does it have to be.[music playing]