Peace & Prosperity Podcast
In the Peace & Prosperity Podcast, Jason Phillips, licensed therapist and life coach, shares personal experiences that force you to think deeply about your values, beliefs, and behaviors to ensure you achieve peace, happiness, and success in your life.
Peace & Prosperity Podcast
Beyond the Hustle: When Success Covers Unhealed Pain with Isaiah Pettway - Episode #96
The Peace & Prosperity Podcast is a bi-weekly conversation with Jason Phillips, LCSW, licensed therapist and confidence expert in Raleigh, NC, discussing all things related to self-love and self-confidence, and how we can improve ourselves personally and professionally.
What if the drive to be “the best” is really a shield for unhealed pain?
In this episode, we explore how achievement can become armor—hiding grief, loss, and the pressure to stay stoic. From surviving without safe spaces to finally seeking therapy after a breaking point, this conversation sheds light on the quiet struggles many high-achieving Black men face.
We talk about how hypermasculinity, lack of confidentiality in public spaces, and cultural stigma keep men from getting help—and how reframing therapy as strength changes everything. Faith plays a key role here too: trusting that God can work through therapists just as He does through doctors.
You’ll also hear about the “safety bubble,” a family ritual for emotional honesty, and practical ways to create space for healing at home. This is a real conversation about courage, clarity, and what it means to finally set the armor down.
Plus, remember to join our podcast community—like, share, subscribe, and let us know what topics you want us to cover next. Engage with us, send a DM, or leave a review. Let's continue this journey towards peace and prosperity together.
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Website -https://www.jasonlphillips.com
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https://peaceprosperitycoaching.hbportal.co/public/660d8068c9d2d600253b215b/1-Inquiry
Like I became hyper fixated on being the best. I became hyper fixated on achieving and oh, I can't get a B. I gotta be the best. I it all of all of the things, right? You I can't to your point though, like I can't go out the house and just throw on a t-shirt and sweatpant. Like I have to, and the the pressure of that, who can handle that 24-7?
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to the Peace and Prosperity Podcast, where we talk mental wellness, confidence, and real life tools to help high achievers thrive. I'm your host, Jason Phillips, licensed therapist, speaker, coach, and I'm glad you're here. Let's get into the episode. And we've known each other.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, 20, it would be 1998. Yeah. 98. That is crazy.
SPEAKER_01:The thing is, man, you don't look that much different. I thought I look that much different, right?
SPEAKER_00:No, we we we we pretty much, we pretty much my my son picks me all the time. He said, You didn't age. You've been you've he said you look like a grown man since you was 12. Such is life.
SPEAKER_01:Um he's picking up on it now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, indeed.
SPEAKER_01:This is this is good. So I wanted to talk about black men and mental health because even though we've known each other for like 30 years or something, we weren't thinking about at least we weren't talking about mental health like we are now.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:So things that we were experiencing, things that we were going through, yeah, we just kind of kept it in, or at least that's what I did. What about you?
SPEAKER_00:No, same thing, man. You know, I I started experiencing trauma at a very young age. Both of my biological parents were deceased by the time I was 11. And, you know, that caused a lot of trauma in and of itself. And then being an orphan and and trying to figure out that whole thing, going from one family to another family, and and then just the the natural sort of kind of progression of growing and and trying to trying to become, if you will, and the pressures that come with that was a lot. And so, no, it was not talked about. And I found myself, you know, really having to deal with a lot of issues because there wasn't a space for me to express, or at least I didn't feel there was uh space for me to express that. And that's tough, man.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I lost my parents. Well, my dad around 18, but my mom, who I was much closer with, and raised me around 30, I believe. So, or 31, 32. But you said you've lost both your parents by 11.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. My my dad died of cancer, and then my mom actually uh had a massive heart attack, and she died in my arms. Uh, so I was, you know, I was the last one with her. So imagine being 11 and you know, you know, having to having to deal with that, man. And I was brought up in a very, in some ways, a very traditional male-dominated family. And so it was be a man, suck it up, move on with life. And, you know, and so you try to do that. You try to acclimate to the norms, if you will. And not to mention growing up in the church, and it's the whole, you know, just pray about it, or, you know, just give it to God. And but, you know, and you're you're trying to do all of that, but at the same time, you have all of these feelings, you have all of these emotions. You're you're confused, you, you feel abandoned, you feel, and these things fester, and and you convince yourself that, you know, oh, I can deal with it, I can handle it. I'm just, and then they manifest in in other ways that are destructive. So you then develop destructive behaviors that are are really at the root of them, are those unresolved issues that come from the loss of a parent, you know, the feeling of abandonment and lack of safety and things of that sort. So it was it was a rough ride, man. It was it was it was a struggle.
SPEAKER_01:Uh did your parents or your your caregivers at the time, because your grand, your grandmother stepped in?
SPEAKER_00:My grandmother stepped in for a minute, and then uh right before, right before high school, my my older half-brother, he and his wife uh took on guardianship of me, and I I moved with them. So between between both of those.
SPEAKER_01:Did they recommend therapy at the time?
SPEAKER_00:No. And I think that that was, and don't get me wrong, the amazing people, I think people respond to situations based on the capacity that they have at the time. But no, it was not, it was not a thing. I think it was very much of, oh, you know, he just he needs to find something to do. He needs to, you know, find something to direct his energy to energy towards and all of that. And so, no, it was not a, it was not a thing. It was not until my actually my senior year in high school, I attempted to commit suicide. It was, interestingly enough, it was right before, it was right before um our uh Castec, uh, our senior fashion, talent fashion show. And we some stuff was going on at home and just all of the stuff bubbling up. And I I attempted and I was unsuccessful, thank God. But it was it wasn't until then, um, and the resources that I was getting was actually from school. Um uh Miss English, uh, you know, she knew about it, and she she was she was able to talk to some of the resources that we had at CAS, and you know, I start seeing a counselor at school regularly and things like that. So it wasn't until then uh that in a formal way, you know, I was able to start really processing what was going on.
SPEAKER_01:Look, you lost both your parents by age 11. You keep going through school, do well, you're at the one of the best schools in New York, and then you get to the very end, we're about to graduate, senior year, you attempt suicide, and that's when you first started to see a formal counselor, not a teacher, not a pastor, yeah, not a mentor. But it was until you were really at the very end.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. And I I can't imagine, I well, I can't imagine. If I would have had that opportunity earlier, I think there are a lot of things that I I dealt with, went through that I could have avoided. Just having that space, that non, that non-judgmental, that non-pressure forming space of being able to just say, like not even necessarily needing just a resolution per se, just to be able to express it, right, was really was really important. And you think about spaces like the barbershop or church or places like that, and you know, I in our in our community, in African American community, a lot of people say, oh, you know, those are our therapy spaces, which to a large degree they are. But you also have to take into consideration that those spaces are also hyper masculine, they're hyper, well, you know, man in the way of we men, you know, that kind of and so if you're dealing with a level of vulnerability, you know, therapy and and making that that's that's vulnerability. And we haven't put those kinds of things in those spaces.
SPEAKER_01:And there's also stoicism in those spaces, but uh they're public. Yes. Like even though the barbershop is great, and I, you know, I talk to my barber, especially the one I have now, you know, we have a close relationship, but it's public spaces. Yes, yeah, and you don't know, like it's not confidentiality. There's no HIPAA in the barbershop. Yeah, and there's really no HIPAA in the church either.
SPEAKER_00:None whatsoever. And that is, I remember I was in a church service with a pastor that I knew very well, and he was up preaching, and he didn't say names, but he started talking about a situation with some individuals that was going on in church, and I knew about it. And immediately in that moment, I said to myself, you'll never get like, like, I'll never have this conversation with you because you're never, I'm never gonna be the one up there that you're talking about. Like, you know, yeah. So if those spaces, if I would have had an opportunity, I think earlier on, there's a lot of mistakes that I made that I I think I could have avoided because they were a function of me trying to process something in me that I did not have another way to do, to do that. And so I think it's important for us to figure out ways to um to manage that. But even like you were talking earlier about this happened and then I was doing well, going to the best high school, and I still think the number one high school in the world, but you know, we we can talk about that. But the other thing that I realized was that part of my response to the trauma that I was experiencing was it was an achievement response. Like I became hyper fixated on being the best. I became hyper-fixated on achieving and oh, I can't get a B. I gotta be the best. I it all of the all of the things, right? You I can't, to your point though, like I can't go out the house and just throw on a t-shirt and sweatpant. Like I have to, and the the pressure of that, who can handle that 24-7, right? And I think not being able to deal with that until I was good and grown was part of the struggle.
SPEAKER_01:What would you what do you think are some of the reasons why we as black men don't seek out therapy at the same rate as like our counterparts?
SPEAKER_00:Good question. I think that in the the black community in particular, hypermasculinity is at a higher rate than any other group. And I think, you know, it goes back to our our historical happenings, right? During the slavery era and Jim Crow, the the masculinity of the black man was was undermined in so many ways. And uh, you know, trying just to be taken away. So that pendulum's, I feel like that pendulum has swung to the extreme opposite end, right? Where now we we we have to be hypermascular, we have to be hyper-vigilant. And so that space, being able to process those things in a very healthy way is just not something that has been a part of our societal norm, if you will. But I think that the other part of it is that we have to dispel the myth that doing so equates to weakness. That that there is not, that that's not weak. Like it is not weak to acknowledge your emotions. It's not weak to deal with how you're feeling and be able to process that. I I would argue that it's actually the extreme opposite of that. It it shows a great degree of strength to be able to do that, because in doing so, you allow your space, yourself the space to to improve and to get better as opposed to blowing up on your family, being angry all the time. Like, you know, I was joking with my brother. It's like some some dudes, man, like, do you ever smile? Like, do you like you mad? You just woke up, you mad over bacon? Like it's the first thing in the morning. Like, you know, but a lot of that is because we've been given this idea that we have to be that way. And and I think that having conversations like this and and and and you know, having uh practitioners such as yourself and and others, you know, infusing our community with this understanding is so vital and so important.
SPEAKER_01:And you having a son too. What have you taught PJ around his emotions, his mental health, uh how to balance it all?
SPEAKER_00:Man, it is, it it was trying to be intentional about that was very important. So we started PJ in therapy when he was maybe seven years old. And it was it was a couple of things. As my my ex-wife and I were knew we were moving towards a divorce, we said, listen, we need to create some normalcy for him with the therapist to be able to process this so that when we do finally bring this information to him, he already has a structure to be able to process and deal with, you know, whatever he's gonna go through, whatever he's gonna deal with. And so we were very intentional about that. But the other part of it was we just wanted to get the have someone to give us the skill set to also create a space outside of therapy for him. And I remember we we we don't do it as much now, but him and his therapist created this thing that was called the safety bubble. And so, and the thing with the safety bubble was he would come to us and he would say, I need to get in the safety bubble. And what it was was he was free to say whatever, however he felt whatever he needed to say, he couldn't get in trouble, we couldn't get angry. Like it was that. And so, and it helped so much. Like there were so many things that we were able to process with him, even beyond just the change in our marital situation, but just giving him the space to be able to say, Listen, I need to say this to you. And I need to say it without the fear of I'm gonna get in trouble or it's gonna be a problem. So he would say, he would come and say, I need to get in the safety bubble. He knew, he knew, he would, you know, and and it it actually became a really great way to teach him how to manage that. The other thing was being intentional with stuff, man, the movie inside out. I tell parents all the time, like Yeah, oh my God. It is it is an amazing way to sort of kind of navigate a conversation with your child about all of the emotions that they're feeling and what do they mean, and getting them to see that the same emotions that they have other people have. And so we we we were we were divorced by this time, and we took him to see the movie together. Like we were like, we need, you know, we're gonna collaborate, get you to. Because we want our commitment is to raise as much as we can to raise a well-rounded young man who knows that there are opportunities to deal with whatever life presents you with.
SPEAKER_01:So I'm gonna go back a little bit. You started counselor, you saw your first counselor in high school. I'm gonna guess this was a female counselor.
SPEAKER_00:It was. It was.
SPEAKER_01:How important is it, or do you think it's important for men to have male, black, black male therapists?
SPEAKER_00:So my first experience with a black male therapist was the start of COVID. And I actually started with him right before COVID hit. And I had, I he's still, he's my therapist till till today. And I didn't realize how much of a difference it made until I had one. Honest, honest to, honest to God, like I did. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So one, so I've had in in the course of my therapy experience, I've had a Caucasian female, two African-American females, and a Caucasian male. And now I'm I'm with the African-American male. And what I found is that in all of those experiences, because of the various intersections that I have, there were parts of my experience that there was a lack of awareness of. So it hindered the ability of, in my opinion, it hindered the ability of my various therapists to assist me in sort of kind of navigating in a holistic way my experience. Not that they weren't productive in parts of my experience, but from a holistic standpoint, to so that I can I can leave a session feeling like, oh, me as a whole person is being dealt with. Me in a whole sense is being dealt with. And so, and and to varying degrees, I think the furthest away from my experience would have been the Caucasian female. And she was wonderful, don't get me wrong, but just being able to process my experience, she she could not understand. So we spent a lot of time, I felt like I spent a lot of time trying to create a context for her to understand what I was dealing with instead of just dealing with what you know I was dealing with, which is another layer of struggle. But now there are days where I go into therapy and you know, I'm sitting there across there, and I don't even have to communicate. Like it's just, you know, it's almost like you just see it and you know, you know the look. You know, and I think that there's power in that, not to mention the similar lived experience. You you're dealing with a professional, you're dealing with a father, you're dealing with an African-American man who has to to function in spaces where he's the minority and dealing with the the societal pressures of just all of that. I think that in and of itself creates, as our our buzzword today, creates a safe space, right? To be able to process in a holistic way.
SPEAKER_01:When we don't have safe spaces, when we don't take care of our mental health, what do you think are some of the fallouts?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think one is unfulfillment and regret. I I think there are so many times where I come in contact with black men in particular, and they they're describing this feeling that they have in life. Um, and they they can't tell where it comes from. And what it what it comes down to is regret and unfulfillment. Uh regret of things that they've done or things that they haven't done, regret in the ways in which they've behaved, unfulfillment, you know, because of uh their processing, lack, lack of discipline, like they're they're unfulfilled in their lives, right? And so um I think that that starts it, and then we see the ripple effect of that. We have broken relationships, we have, you know, you're you're unable to show up for the people in your community, your, your, your wives, your girlfriends, your your mothers, your sons, your daughters, you know, you're not able to show up in the most real way. You know, I remember for me, there was a time where I stopped going to therapy just because of we we grinding. So it's it's it's we're busy. So, you know, that's on a back burner. And I was doing so much and trying to pro, I was just being, I was just under pressure and I was being so mean to my son. Like every little thing that he, and he was just being a kid. Every little thing that he did, I was going from zero to a hundred. Like, and I literally, I'll never forget it. I was in a car one day and I looked back at him, and he just had this look on his face of like just trepidation, like, like I can't move. I can't, you know, I don't want to get in trouble. And I'm like, why? You're you're making him feel that way. And for me, it was I need to go to therapy because I need to be able to process what's going on with me so that I can better show up as a father, I can better show up as a pastor, I can better show uh show up in all of these other areas of my life. And so I think that when we don't, we deny ourselves the reality of who we can be in all of the areas of our lives because we have not given ourselves the permission to be in a place where we can really process what's going on with us, right? And I think that that's important to understand.
SPEAKER_01:That one really spoke to me. Um seriously. I want to ask. You talking, you mean you touched on so much. You touched on so much. Now, Isaiah, what somebody's gonna be watching this or listening to it, and they're still gonna be on the fence about our therapy. What do you say to them?
SPEAKER_00:I think what do you stand to lose kind of situation? In that for me, therapy was never something that, you know, if I do this, I'm gonna suffer. To me, there was only the possibility of a benefit. Either I was gonna still be at ground zero and still be dealing with whatever I was dealing with, or I was going to get better. I didn't, I didn't see it as a way to contribute to my circumstances getting worse. And so what I would say to them is if it is something that you're on a fence about, try it and give yourself space to really commit to it, to see the benefits of it. And the other part of that is if you don't, what other options do you have? I think that one of the things that we have to grapple with is what do we really want out of our life experience? And if we're if we're saying we really want our life experience to be whole, we want it to be positive, we want to grow, we want success, then we have to do the things that are necessary to get to that end. And so if that is what you're saying you want out of your life, why not put the building blocks in place to make sure that that is there? And for me, and I think for everyone, really, therapy has to be one of those building blocks. Because life, as the young folks say, life is gonna be life. Like it it, I don't care how much money you have, I don't care your background, I don't care where you come from, life is going to present you with challenges. And especially if you're trying to do anything. If you if you're trying to make progress in your life, you're trying to grow, you're trying to be successful, you're trying to get a degree, you're trying to have a successful marriage, build a family. Life is going to happen, and you need a space to be able to process those happenings that will allow you not to lose ground.
SPEAKER_01:Hold on. The whole well, one of the reasons we haven't talked about, and this won't be on my list, the intersection of God and therapy. Yeah. How do you advocate for therapy as someone who is a man of God? Yeah, what is that like? And how do you how do you personally manage it? And then how do you teach it to those who come to to serve with you?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. I I think that they're one and the same. So let me start there. I my advocacy for to other people is the same level of advocacy that I have with it for myself, in that I believe, oh, for example, when when when we talk about God, we believe God for healing, right? We're gonna go to the doctor and we're we're gonna we're gonna let the doctor check us out. We're gonna we're gonna get on the medication. The doctor says, you know, we need surgery, we're gonna get surgery. Why? Because we believe that God can use that surgeon, we believe that God can use that doctor, we believe that God can use that medication to help heal us. Well, if if we believe that in in that regard, in my mind, it's the same thing with therapy. If if I believe that, if I'm praying and asking God to deliver me from depression or to help me feel fulfilled and joy in my life, or to help me deal with my anger issues. Well, guess what? There's a professional that can assist us with that. And and and God can use them just the way that God can use that medical doctor, right? And so I believe that we give ourselves over to the understanding that the miracle-working power of God in the earth comes through people. And that's say that one more. The miracle-working power of God in the earth comes through people. That we we believe that we are the hands and the feet of God, that if we're gonna demonstrate the love of God, it comes from me showing it to you. If God wants to provide for the homeless, we we do it. Why? Because we believe that we are the hands and feet of God. Because the miracle working power of God in the earth comes through us. So it's the same thing in regards to therapy. If I'm expecting God to show up for me in my mental health, I can believe God to do that through my therapist. And so for me, it was in, I had to be intentional about Lord, direct me to the right therapist. Lord, help me understand and give me the strength to go into these therapy sessions and be forthcoming and to be honest and open, right? And so being able to say that I think is important. The other thing is I think there's a biblical context for it. For example, the the prophet Jeremiah is considered the weeping prophet. No one ever asked themselves, why was he always crying? Well, if you study scripture, you will see that he often dealt with being depressed, right? And God was, in in speaking directly to him, God was always sending him into a context to be able to discuss what he was filling with others, giving him others to talk to. Like, so there's a biblical context for it. Or the prophet Elijah, when he was had just defeated the prophets of Baal and Jezebel was chasing him, and he runs and he goes to a brook and he's there sleeping because he's depressed. And the Bible says that God sends a raven to feed him and tells him, get up, shake yourself off, get you something to eat, and go talk to somebody. You get what I'm saying? So, so that in and of itself gives me a context to know that even in my relationship with God, even in God's hand being on my life and him using me, that there are still moments where the emotional impact of all of that is going to weigh on me. And I need a context to be able to process that and deal with that. And so that's what I believe, that's what I teach as a pastor. I tell people all the time, although I have pastoral counseling credentials, I am not a therapist. And so I will, you can come and talk to me, share with me, but I'm also going to give you resources to go see an actual therapist to sit down with them because that's not my that's not my area of expertise. And I think that one of the disservices that we've done in the black church is we've tried to act like we're the end-all, be-all when it comes to like pastors and stuff. I'm not. This is an issue, you need to talk to somebody. And I'm gonna give you a resource to do so.
SPEAKER_01:That sparked a memory, though. I remember you did our pastoral counselor, yeah. I forgot about that. I did, but it was really helpful though.
SPEAKER_00:It was and I think part of it is being able to understand the degree to which you can help somebody. Like there are things, of course, there are things that I can offer, but at the point at which it's like, okay, this is a little deeper than what I can do, you got to be able to provide those resources to people. And so I think that faith and therapy honestly are one and the same.
SPEAKER_01:Man, I say I appreciate you. Of course, man. This is this is good. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Thanks for tuning in to the Peace and Prosperity Podcast. If today's episode brought you clarity, encouragement, or even a moment of calm, share it with someone who needs to hear it too. Your support helps us keep these conversations going. And remember, you don't have to do it all alone. If you're navigating stress, burnout, or just need a space to reset, I'm here to support you. Connect with me at jasonlphillips.com or send me a message on social media. Until next time, protect your peace, pursue your purpose, and keep showing up for you. Be blessed.