Looking Good vs Feeling Good with Marv Neal - Bonus Episode

The Peace & Prosperity Podcast is a bi-weekly conversation with Dr. Jason Phillips, LCSW, licensed therapist and confidence expert in Raleigh, NC, discussing all things related to self-love and self-confidence, and how we can improve ourselves personally and professionally.

In this episode, Jason sits down with Detroit fashion stylist Marv Neal to explore the connection between style, identity, and mental health. Marv shares how his work helping people feel confident in what they wear often leads to deeper conversations about self-worth, stress, and the pressure many men carry. The conversation also tackles why many Black men hesitate to try therapy and how trust, representation, and honest dialogue can change that. Together they show how both style and therapy can help people feel seen, confident, and more comfortable in who they are becoming. 

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome to the Peace and Prosperity Podcast, where we talk mental wellness, confidence, and real life tools to help high achievers thrive. I'm your host, Jason Phillips, licensed therapist, speaker, coach, and I'm glad you're here. Let's get into the episode. So, yeah, Marv, if you want to introduce yourself, man, let the people know who you are.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Hey, how y'all doing? My name is Marv Neal, fashion stylist to the stars and regular folk. Born and raised in Detroit, Michigan. North End, born and raised, um, read, and all that just cool.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Man, Marv, first, bro, appreciate you for being on the documentary. No problem. Thanks for that. Yeah, seriously, when it comes to black men and their mental health, I feel like we need diverse, diverse perspective, right? You hear a lot of times from people like me who are therapists in the field, but what about the people who are not? So I know when I asked you, you was you was cool, like, hey yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Yeah, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

So I guess upbringing, let's start just kind of before we get into like the meat. Like upbringing. So you're from Detroit. What area?

SPEAKER_02 1:14

The North End. So it's like the New Center area. The boulevard down to Tennyson where Holly Park starts. From Woodward to 75 is the North End. So it's kind of recent history. A lot of people are from over there, Jackie Wilson's Dinah Ross, and a couple of other people that were from Motown were from that area, and then they moved down this. But it's just like a two-mile radius of, you know, the heart. It's like the heart of the city. It's on here, right in the middle.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

So and being a stylist, man, what got you into it? Oh, growing up coming from a family of a lot of women.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

It was a lot of women that were into retail. My great-grandmother was a seamstress and worked at a cleaner's. My oldest aunt, uh, my grandmother, oldest aunt, and the middle aunt all knew how to sew. My mother too. And then my, you know, I had three decades of women that were in the house. Well, five. I'm not deciding the generation. So I had a great grandmother that was from the 40s. Um, a grandmother that was from the 60s, so to speak. My oldest aunt was like the late 70s, one or to the 80s. The middle aunt was like the same with her. And then my mother was more like hip-hop. So she was like more like Sarge Kepler. And all of those girls with hip-hop started taking off. The middle aunt was more of like the the, you know, the flag girl, mink coats and gantos and winklemans all the time.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Winkleman.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Then the oldest aunt was more like this co. So she was more like Da Summer or, you know, the, you know, just a certain kind of look because she was from that late 70s, early 80s when disco was still prevalent. And actually, she used to work in the Renaissance here at a shoe store called Carnivies. Okay. And she used to bring me with her every Saturday when she had to work, and I would just sit and watch people come in and buy shoes and look through magazines. And it was like 84.

Fashion As Culture And Identity

SPEAKER_01 3:11

So I know we're going to talk about mental health and the stigma behind that. But even you being a stylist, did you ever get any pushback from men, women, just in general, being a male in what I would say is a predominantly female-driven industry. Or am I on base?

SPEAKER_02 3:28

No, they're not off-base. It's a kind of a it's harder here in Detroit because everyone here adjusts as well. At least in their minds, they feel like they do. So it's harder for me to tell the people that are used to going to the mall to get their own things that you need some help. Yeah. Because they feel like they don't need no help. So you have generations and generations of people that feel like they have need of help. So in Detroit, so to speak, the stylist is a new thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

That may be kind of similar to mental health thing, right? Like so people are living their lives. They might be struggling, but then they don't necessarily know they need help or want to get the help.

Openness To Therapy And Trust

SPEAKER_02 4:09

I mean, because we have so many people that come from the car industry, the hair industry when it was really potting here. And then with automotive hair, and then of course, like the street basis of Detroit, the street aspect. So with those people in those generations, it was a certain kind of look and aesthetic. You know, you got your meat coat from here, you got your office from here, you went to North Flame for this, you went to, you know what I mean? So this boutique for that. So a lot of people are stuck in that. Like we were speaking earlier, like the Mari Gangershoe. You know, your suit from this place. So that's Detroit because it was always a going out kind of city at a certain time. And when you went out, you went out to dress your best. Yeah. So I feel like I didn't get any pushbacks. I just think that it is uh a thing of like it's news. But nobody has attacked it the way that I have, where it's uh celebrity base, wardrobe styling for regular clients, closets, high-end retail, and done it all kind of well, even movie and film. So it's kind of new for them to see. They're used to saying Joe Nambrose and Rachel Zoe, or even the other male, maybe male stylists that's out. But to see a black man six feet, three out of pounds, it's kind of like, yeah, you know, it's kind of starky. Like then I don't have a a stick, like I'm not carrying a purse. I'm not right. You know, just all of the stuff that they made in their mind think of how it should be. I'm just not that.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

So when I first asked you about coming on the documentary, you were super open. And I said, hey man, you been to therapy? You like, no, but I'm open to it. Can you kind of expand on that?

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Well, you know how it is. Like you said just a minute ago, it's kind of new. So, you know, therapy for us in the community, black community and for my neighborhood was sitting and talk to grandma. Or instead of talking to Auntie or somebody. That was your therapy session. And they were kind of broken too. So they were just trying to give you the tools that they thought that you were supposed to get. You know what I mean? And then it's hard to get, you know, the men figure, the male figure is not always in the household. So you don't know how to get what, as a man, sometimes what it should be. Right. Or what how things should go. So you rely on the black woman to kind of teach you or talk for you or talk you through. So with me, I wasn't I've never been scared of it. I just never felt like I just never did it. You know what I mean? I'm oh I'm very open to it. I just never did it because, like I was telling you on the phone, it's always been a thing of people will come to me to talk. Yeah. Or I would be the person talking to them talking it through. And I didn't go through school or anything like you. But, you know, some yeah, a lot of stuff is just like common sense. And, you know, being able to use your words, that's how I feel. It is. I'm not I mean, and I'm not taking nothing for what you school for, but I just, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 7:03

I just feel like that's how it should be. But you know, I guess kind of like your profession, maybe. And it could be a stretch, right? You certain things you might that probably don't go together. But some people still put it on. And I think in the mental health space. But that's when you get to the bad dress. Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Like how do you get to the bad place in your life and you never take a therapist. Yeah. You know, I told you you you're having a hard time going to the bathroom to talk to team everybody was yellow, yellow. I told you you put on the badge, this bad shoe, it's not gonna work, your feet don't hurt and it's all looking bad in pictures, but you do listen. Yep. You know what I mean? So it's all about listening.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

So then if you have been that person, why do people come to you?

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Yeah. Uh I think, great question. I think people come to me because I've always been relatable. I'm not a judgmental person. I'm pretty even-toned. I'm not a loud person. I'm not real low. I'm like real even. And I think people just trust me. I think family and friends have always just trusted me with whatever it was that they had going on, whether it was good or bad.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Yeah. I think that's the biggest piece too. I was talking to another therapist, and I said, why don't some people come to therapy? And he said, trust immediately.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

I just want to say, I think with mean I would have to find somebody that I'm I'm okay with unloading on. If I felt like, you know, it was time to sit and speak. You know, because I feel like to unload and know that it stays there is a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Yeah, because a lot of times you sell tell somebody something and then they you might tell Brandy something and then you hear from Joe and you're like, wait, I told Brandy.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yeah. Like that. I think that it's a it's just a trust name, man. I think sometimes people don't know how to just be quiet about stuff. And then some people just don't know how to, you know what I mean, just be a friend. I think a lot of times everything is not for you to repeat, no matter, you know, who it is or what it is. It just might not be meant for you to re to repeat it. And sometimes people have that, well, I'm gonna keep it real and I'm gonna do it. It's like, yeah, but I mean, if they want everybody to know, then they wouldn't have pulled out a bullhorn. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Sometimes it's just best to be quiet. I'm I'm thinking, like, because it's all facts, right? Yeah. And I think that's the thing where people come to you because they probably share some stuff with you and they know, like, Marvus not about to blasphemy on social. He's not about to DM somebody. Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Really? Because I wouldn't want that to happen to me. Right. I feel like we all have our demons and we all have our things about us that, you know, to you, I might be amazing. To this person, I might be the worst person in the world. So I feel like we all have to find a kind of ground, especially when people come to you that sometimes just to just sit back. I'll ask my friends, like, am I just listening? Or are you asking me for for help? For help, you know what I mean? And they'll be like, no, just if you if you feel like, you know, I don't want to hear what you got to say, what you think. So I feel like that's a big thing too with your friends, it's just talking to people. I don't need a lot of people that just a load on me and I don't even know them. And I guess it's just kind of a thing that has always been attached to me, a certain kind of light.

Self-Care Habits And Quiet Processing

SPEAKER_00 10:14

So then what do you do for your own mental health? I read. I don't know. Yeah. What job? Um, just fashion magazine. I should have known. Okay. Not a super like us. Oh, we'll be like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

You know, read you know, reading this pretty long about that. I read a lot of self-help stuff. And just like I like learning, you know, just getting I don't get quiet. I I think people, people that know me know that I'm I'm kind of a quiet person, but then I'm not. It's like a weird thing. Like I have a personality, but I don't have to speak all the time. So if there's something going on with me, like three days, you know, maybe in my mind over and over and over and then by the third day, I'm like, okay, that's it. Because I'm in my mind, like playing and playing and playing over and over and over. And then after a while, it's like teacher, let it go? Or yeah, I mean, well, you know, put it back somewhere. You know what I mean? Or whatever. But most of the time, you know, I'll read and it'll go away. Or I may call my mom and talk to her. And then, you know, you try not to bring somebody into whatever you got going on. So yeah, I think for me, I I just try to usually work it out with myself.

Barriers For Black Men Seeking Therapy

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Oh wow. What do you think are some of the reasons why black men in particular don't seek out therapy at rates of like other races and groups?

SPEAKER_02 11:41

I don't think I think it may be two things. I don't think they know that it's available. I think black people are used to having insurance and knowing that if I get sick, this is what it's for. But they might not know that this is available on there too for free. So I think that, and then back to the trust thing. I just think people don't know, you know, especially true people. It's like, I don't know you. You know, that's the first thing that everybody says. You know what I mean? Like they you, you know, we always, as cool as I am, you know, the first thing somebody says something you don't know them, you look like, I don't know, you know, you know what are you talking to me? But after you, you know, the older you get, you get better with that kind of stuff. So I think that it's just that. I think people just have a thing with trust. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

That they still bore down to really.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

I think it's just boiled down to trust because I feel like people just have to know that whatever it, whatever it is that they're about to say, it's not gonna go nowhere. And that they're not gonna be judged by it. Because if if so, then they like, well, I could have not said nothing. I could have kept it to myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

So if they feel like the back to the trust aspect of it, if I trust you, then What do you think are some of the downsides of people not going to therapy? People, you know, like the kids say, what the kids say, they crashing out. Yeah, that's the new thing, huh? That's the new thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

I think people are just, you know, a lot of people are fed up. A lot of, you know, these jobs of people not making money the way they need to make money. The jobs aren't paying how they used to pay. So that's always a big factor in the community, especially a black community. Yeah. And then a lot of black people, let's keep it lunch that a lot of people are lazy. So, you know, it's just kind of like the fight of back and forth. So I think that could be the thing of it. People just, people don't know this is available. People don't know what to expect when they get there. I think maybe more of the younger people are more into it than people are even our age and older because it's kind of pushed a little bit more in schools, excuse me. Or just, you know, on shows, you see them talking to therapists and different things. So I think then it is in your face.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

It is pushed more. And I forget you're 44.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Yeah, 44.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

So, yeah, somebody who's 24, they probably way more than that.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

But you know, they don't, they are carefree about everything. You know what I mean? They don't, we would never say, well, mom, I'm mad at you because you'll be a second first.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

You know, I'll be looking at you like, nigga, what the you know? Man, you don't know. I'm mad.

Money Stress, Work Pressures, And Coping

SPEAKER_02 14:05

I'm all these guys damn bills, you don't just go in. So I think it's just a difference now with the parents that are our age on down to have these kids that are 24. Right. There's a lot of people that are my age, kids are like 24. Yep. Um, and they just have a different kind of spectrum of things, which is not a it's not a bad thing the way that we were raised with grandma, great grandmother, and it was a certain kind of southern thing. It's just not that no more. They date who they want to date, they say what they want to say, they tell you their feelings. We didn't really tell nobody our feelings. You know what I mean? We weren't raised to be in your feelings. Uh no. So, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

And also something I think about, you know, when it comes to addiction. Yeah. You know, growing up, we saw some people drinking, smoking. Yeah. But addiction as it were, I until I got to like school, undergrad, and grad school, I'm like, oh wow. They probably was, you know, I got family members who are dealing with addiction, but it was just uh, he done. That's an everyday thing.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

He done drunk he done drink too much. Yeah. I think that they just, you know, every day you see granddaddy or granddaddy or daddy come home and have a drink, you don't really think it's addiction. You just think that he had a long day at work and he came home and he had a drink. Like you don't really think that it might be addiction until you like, yeah, well, he come on have a drink. And he slapped my man to the couch every night. Well, so now it's a problem. Yeah. But if you brought up in that, you don't really know. Like, I didn't really, I wasn't raised in a house where it was any addiction. They would smoke cigarettes, but I guess that's a, you know, that was just a stress reliever for them. Right. But I didn't really wasn't ready really raised and I didn't see any of that kind of stuff coming up. Do you know anybody personally, any black man who's been to therapy? I know a couple, maybe about five. Oh, that's a good amount. Yeah, that's a good amount. Yeah, more now, they are more so closer to 39, 30, 39, 40. A little bit younger than me, five, six, seven years younger than me. And then I I hear a lot of people that's kind of like throws it out there, like, I can't wait to go see my fairs. You know, so I think now it's becoming a part of having them cope, which is great. You know what I mean? Whatever you have to do to make, you know, make sure that you don't slide down the wall. You have to make it or crash out.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Yeah, or also I think about it, like not trying to keep the similarities there, but as far as like with you being a stylist, people wouldn't back then people weren't thinking, like, I need to get some help with how I dress.

Generational Shifts And Addiction Awareness

SPEAKER_02 16:36

No, but I mean, how they did that then was like whatever the person in the store was considered the stylist. Right. You know what I mean? Whoever, if it was Lori's that worked at the me and shoe store or yeah, you know, Uncle Sam that was Uncle Sam's, you know what I mean? Hot Sam's then that's who was your stylist, you know what I mean? Because they would tell you, well, wear this with this, and I will wear this or that. It just wasn't a, you know, it didn't really become a name for I mean, it was always going on in like editorial-wise. Right. So even, you know, the the the Essence and the Ebonies and all of those people had it, but it wasn't, like I said in the beginning of the conversation, it wasn't in a story here in Detroit because we were a mall city plus boutiques, and then you had even celebrities come in here to buy clothes to wear. Then you had all these people that knew how to sew. So you didn't really have a namesake on it. It was just kind of like Jim at the Broadway. Right. They'll hook you up. You know what I mean? You were hoping for a discount.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

So I mean, that was pretty much. I know people come to you or they've come to you that listening ear, be that good friend. Has somebody ever come to you and you like, hey, I think you need to talk to a therapist? And if they did, how did you say it?

SPEAKER_02 17:55

We kind of laugh and say you need to go sit and talk to the lady. I think that's the thing now. But I feel like, like when me and you talk, I think everybody needs somebody to talk to. Yeah. I feel like the older I'm getting, I feel like I need somebody to talk to. Not like nothing is wrong, but I feel like it's needed. I don't know if you don't mean why it's something that I would do. That's why I stayed in the beginning of the combo. Yeah. Where I'm like, okay, Saturday, I'm going because I'll see you.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Would you even know where to look? No.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

And I mean, yeah. Because even as a therapist. I think you were the first person that I knew that was in my age, Greg. Right. That does what you do. It's it's a couple of women that I know that do it, but black men, I think you may be the first one.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

What would you say be the benefits of talking to a black man as opposed to a woman?

SPEAKER_02 18:49

I think the benefits would be just you understanding the plight of a black man. You know what I mean? Like I think it's just nobody can understand like you would, whether it's the day-in-day, you know, sexual desires, the money flow, just understanding all the tears that we have quarantine. That's my yes every day. You know what I mean? So I think that that would be the benefit to somebody that could be like, you know, y'all in such a high five.

Finding Black Therapists And Taking Action

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Yeah. But you, I mean, I'm over here like y'all can't see me, but I'm thinking, like, dang, this is exactly what people come to me, especially black men. Yes. Day-to-day, money flow, and sex.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Yeah. I mean, because with men, well, when I've been around me and you know, my cousins and homeboys and big wizard, we pretty simple. Yeah. And then you know, feed us. Right. So the F. And then Finances. Yeah, finances. Everything else falls falls in the line. You know, everything else we can handle. But the three is like the Lord Jesus, they took my money. You know what I mean? Like, you like, yeah. When your money's not right. Your money's not right, your mind. Yeah. I know my money's not right. I gain more weight. Yeah. Because I already don't eat meat. So it's like everything, my intention is not in my head. I don't catch headaches, it goes right here. Right to my belt. Yeah. And then when I'm when I'm getting money and things is going well, that's when you see out the lost few time. You like say, yeah, sun down quick. Yeah. You know what I mean? Money ain't right, fly back home.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah, if somebody is listening, they kind of on the fence, like, man, I think I might need to go see therapy. What would you say to that then?

unknown 20:32

No.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

If you're feeling like you need somebody to talk to, find somebody. And you know, now it's kind of not an excuse, even though we don't have anywhere to look. You can just Google. Therapist in my city, therapists in my town, or my state. If you feel like black, type in black therapist or whatever. You know, all the different Google hashtags. And just try to make it happen for yourself because you don't want to have no mental breakdown. Yeah. Me and bottled up. Because we know, as men, we just be bottled up. Don't say nothing. Thanks. Appreciate you, Mar.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Oh, Mar, if people want to get with you, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Also on Instagram is at Marv Neil, M-A-R-B-N-E-A-L. My website is www.markmarknil.com. And check me out.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Thanks for tuning in to the Peace and Prosperity Podcast. If today's episode brought you clarity, encouragement, or even a moment of calm, share it with someone who needs to hear it too. Your support helps us keep these conversations going. And remember, you don't have to do it all alone. If you're navigating stress, burnout, or just need a space to reset, I'm here to support you. Connect with me at jasonlphillips.com or send me a message on social media. Until next time, protect your peace, pursue your purpose. And keep showing up for you. Be blessed.